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From YouTube: Kingston, Ontario Environment, Infrastructure and Transportation Policies Committee October 12, 2021
Description
Environment, Infrastructure and Transportation Policies Committee meeting from October 12, 2021. For full meeting agenda visit https://bit.ly/3p6bAwy
C
A
Yes,
mr
chair,
welcome
to
this
evening's
meeting,
I'm
just
going
to
quickly
run
through
the
list
of
participants
that
we
have
with
us
this
evening.
So
I
confirm
we
do
now
have
quorum.
All
committee
members
are
present,
with
the
exception
of
councillor
holland
and
councillor
usterhoff,
who
did
send
their
regrets.
A
C
C
Sorry,
I
don't
have
my
second
screen
with
me,
so
I'm
going
to
be
toggling
back
and
forth,
so
hopefully
that
doesn't
create
too
many
plays
all
right.
So
now
it's
the
confirmation
of
minutes.
So
there
was
the
regular
minutes
from
tuesday
august
3rd
and
the
minutes
of
the
special
meeting
from
tuesday
september
28th,
there's
two
sets
of
of
minutes
and
I'm
gonna
move
in
a
second
for
both
sets
of
minutes.
C
D
C
E
This
year
we
have
focused
on
two
campaigns:
our
first
one
was
expanding
access
to
community
gardens,
making
it
easier
to
set
up
gardens,
reducing
the
insurance
requirements
and
increasing
the
funding
available
for
new
gardens
as
an
equity
and
food
sovereignty.
Peace,
that's
been
very
successful
and
our
main
focus
for
tonight
is
our
other
campaign,
which
is
on
the
expansion
of
fair,
free,
excellent
transit
throughout
our
city.
E
So,
first
of
all,
we
have
been
conducting
a
survey
of
transit
users
and
people
who
don't
use
transit
but
might
in
the
future
to
find
out
what
are
the
major
barriers
to
access
in
this
system
and
we're
still
collecting
surveys
and
and
so
we're
not
ready
to
release
the
full
results
at
this
time.
But
so
far
from
about
over
100
survey
responses,
we
are
seeing
people
like
the
system
they
enjoy
using
it.
E
We've
also
connected
with
other
groups,
doing
similar
work
across
canada.
Last
week
our
group
was
part
of
a
green
new
deals,
communities
rising
event.
There's
a
climate
code
red
week
of
action
happening
all
across
the
country.
Kingston
was
the
first
community
to
rise
last
week
and
we
had
a
day
of
action
where
we
had
hundreds
of
signatures
for
a
petition
for
the
federal
government
to
move
off
of
fossil
fuels
and
introduce
a
just
transition
act
that
included
massive
funding
for
operations
of
local
transit
authorities,
so
that
we
could
make
these
kinds
of
changes.
E
So
we
do
understand
that
this
is
an
issue
of
all
levels
of
government
and
we
are
working
at
all
levels.
For
example,
one
question:
maybe
the
first
question
I'll
surface
is:
we
are
concerned
right
now.
The
province
supports
financially
the
ability
of
people
who
use
ontario
works
and
odsp
to
get
reduced,
fares
and
and
more
access
to
the
buses.
E
You
know,
I
think
the
public
has
lots
of
good
ideas,
and-
and
you
know,
any
kind
of
revised
ridership
campaign
depends
on
public.
Enthusiasm
depends
on
getting
people
fired
up
and
talking
to
each
other.
So
will
that
happen,
and
if
so,
what
might
it
look
like?
I'm
just
gonna
close
with
a
few
more
questions
in
in
my
remaining
time.
It
will
not
be
all
of
our
questions
but,
as
I
said,
we
will
follow
up
with
a
written
report.
E
This
will
just
give
you
an
example
of
some
of
the
things
we're
concerned
with,
and
thinking
of
and
looking
forward
to
tonight
will
or
has
staff
consider
the
impact
that
ridesharing
corporations
like
uber
or
lyft
might
be
having
on
transit
use
and
thus
our
climate
goals.
You
know
research
has
shown
that
when
uber
and
lyft
use
increases
in
the
city,
then
you
end
up
with
more
private
car
trips
and
less
transit,
which
has
a
negative
impact
on
co2
emissions.
E
A
couple
last
questions
in
my
final
minute:
we
are
interested
in
knowing
to
what
extent
has
ridership
recovered.
You
know
the
the
city
said
that
they
were
hoping
for
a
recovery
of
45
of
no
more
levels
of
fair
revenues
in
2021.
Has
that
happened
so
far?
Is
the
three-year
transition
back
to
2020
ridership
levels
based
on
existing
fare
structure,
or
is
it
based
on
fair
increases,
fair
reductions,
we're
looking
to
get
more
information
about
that
relationship?
E
How
the
city
and
transit
staff
see
the
relationship
between
fares,
revenue
and
ridership,
basically,
so
that
we
can
also
contribute
in
the
most
informed
way
possible
for
expanding
a
transit
system.
That
is
excellent.
That
is
fair,
free
to
the
extent
possible,
but
is
also
sustainable
for
the
long
term.
E
So,
as
I
said,
we
will
follow
up
with
some
other
questions,
but
I
was
hoping
to
update
you
all
on
some
of
the
work
that
we're
doing
in
the
community,
some
of
the
energy
and
the
ideas
that
exist
in
the
community
on
transit
and
some
of
the
questions
that
we
have.
Thank
you
very
much
for
hearing
our
delegation.
C
Thank
you,
mr
monoi.
I
let
you
go
a
few
seconds
over.
That's
okay!
I
try
not
to
make
it
a
habit.
Thank
you
for
your
presentation.
So
there
is
a
committee
structure
we
have
to
follow.
Members
of
the
committee
can
ask
questions
of
the
delegation
and
then
members,
that's
it.
Members
of
the
committee
can
ask
questions
of
the
delegation.
You
can
respond.
There's
no
timeline
to
that.
C
C
B
B
B
However,
it's
we
were
the
most
successful
public,
ridership
increase
in
all
of
ontario,
and
I
think
that's
something
we
definitely
need
to
work
towards
again
and
if
you
can
share
with
us
any
municipalities
that
have
free
offer,
free
transit
or
offer
greatly
reduce
transit
fares
to
their
to
their
citizens.
I
think
that's
something
that
we
would
definitely.
I
would
definitely
be
interested
in
so
and
thank
you,
mr
chair,
for
not
cutting
me
off
for
my
lack
of
question.
C
E
So
we
are
a
part
of
the
keep
transit
moving
coalition,
which
is
it
has
riders
and
transit
associations
and
the
atu
in
the
transit
operators
union
across
the
country.
So
you
know
we
go
to
those
meetings,
we're
actually
having
a
strategy
meeting
next
monday
to
talk
about
what
are
you
know
because
I
have
spoken
with
with
transit
staff
before
with
jeremy
decosta
recently,
and
you
know
he's
definitely
well
aware
that
this
is
you
know.
C
Yeah,
I'm
gonna,
I'm
gonna
follow
up
with
the
clerk
on
that
myself.
The
rules
of
order,
of
course,
are
structured
around
items
being
on
the
agenda.
So
so
technically
we
would
need
a
transit
item
on
the
agenda
for
staff
and
interact
back
and
forth.
My
understanding
of
this
particular
delegation
is
that,
as
we've
seen
before
and
committee
members
are
aware,
remember
members
of
the
public
can
apply
to
speaking
delegation
to
committees
with
or
without
items
being
on
the
agenda.
C
That's
not
the
case
of
council,
but
it
is
the
case
at
committees
as
long
as
it's
within
the
committee
mandate,
which
transit
obviously
is,
but
for
the
interaction
directly
with
staff
that
council
meals
talking
about
because
there's
been
questions
asked
questions
and
responses,
that's
an
interaction
right.
We
can
only
have
that
if
the
committee
rules
allowed
so
that
I
will
follow
up
with
with
the
clerk
on
that.
C
But
at
this
point
it's
kind
of
moved
as
as
the
vice
chair
noted
that
there
is
no
one
from
transit
staff
here
at
the
moment
in
any
event,
but
that
that
time
will
come,
and
I
I
would
suggest
that
maybe
the
members
of
the
public
hear
present
that
are
interested
in
these
questions
and
want
to
have
an
interaction
directly
from
staff
would
keep
an
eye
on
the
itp
agendas
so
that
they
could
come
and
do
so.
When
we
have
such
agenda
items.
I
believe
madam
kirk,
that's
sort
of
where
it's
at.
F
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
Yes,
counselor
neil
asked
a
lot
of
the
questions.
I
was
going
to
ask
what
like
what
other
cities
are.
You
aware
of
that
might
also
have
on
right
next
to
no
cost
transit
and
if
a
report
was
coming
but
because
I
thought
you
had
said
mr
miller,
you
were
bringing
a
report
or
sending
in
a
report,
but
I
guess
you're
just
going
to
be
sending
in
those
questions
on
a
formal
document
is
that
it.
E
Well,
okay,
so
the
the
next
thing
I
will
send,
because
I
I
write,
counsel
fairly
enough
and
staff
will
be
yeah
our
questions
and
and
a
few
ideas.
But
one
thing
that
we
anticipate
sending
next
is:
we
are
still
getting
survey
data
for
how
people
are
using
the
service,
how
people
are
not
using
the
service.
E
E
F
E
Yeah,
yes,
absolutely
so
I
mean
I
I'm
loath
to
speak
too
much
for
the
gardens
group,
because
I'm
not
that's
not
I'm
more
on
the
transit
side,
but
I
know
I
have
spoken
with
people.
This
fall
and
and
people
are
really
happy
with
with
staff
and
council's
response
to
the
gardens
campaign
and
and
the
letter
writing
that
a
lot
of
residents
did
in
support
of
community
gardens
yeah.
E
I
know
that
the
two
big,
the
two
big
things
that
came
up
that
were
definitely
successful,
was
increasing
the
amount
of
funding
available
to
start
a
garden
and
and
the
city
taking
over
the
insurance
requirements,
gardeners,
which
is
particularly
onerous.
I
can't
I
don't
remember
where
things
came
down
on
the
raised
bed
requirement.
I
know
that
there
was
talk
of
if
you
could
get
a
soil
sample
to
saying
your
soil
was
okay
and
you
did
that
on
your
own
expense.
You
could
avoid
that.
E
C
D
E
I
think
there
should
be
there
should
be
questions
about.
So
I
think
there
should
be
some
kinds
of
of
open
houses
as
public
as
possible.
They
get
people
just
back
inside
a
bus.
I
you
know
I
just
even
even
I
think
the
fact
that
we
did
as
a
city
mobile
vaccination
clinics
on
buses
and
got
some
of
the
buses
out.
That
way.
That
was
amazing
and
it
was
a
really
great
use
of
of
our
public
capacity
as
a
city
to
improve
people's
lives
and
to
be
you
know
it
was.
E
It
was
a
really
really
cool
thing
to
see,
and
so
you
know
if
there
was
like
a
kind
of
availability,
because
one
of
the
concerns
that
people
have
is
safety
stuff
for
sure
right
and
if
there
was
a
chance
to
you
know,
do
like
a
bus
demo
and
have
people
say
you
know,
because
I
know
we're
also
getting
a
new
fare
box.
You
know
program.
So
if
there
was
an
opportunity
to
say
hey,
you
can
get
on
the
bus,
it's
gonna
be
easier
to
pay
for
it.
E
It's
gonna
be
lower
contact.
It's
going
to
be
safety
and
tour
people
through
that
might
help
rebuild.
You
know
publicly
some
of
the
trust
and
also
some
of
the
excitement
that
people
have,
I
think,
convening
about
asking
the
question.
What
would
get
you
to
ride
the
bus
more,
which
is
a
question
that
we
are
asking,
is
the
central
thing
that
we
need
is
it
is
it?
Is
it
more
service
on
busier
routes?
Is
it
you
know
some
service
on
on
other
routes?
Is
it
coveted
safety?
E
Is
it
finances?
I
think
anything
that
we
can
do
to
have
that
conversation
and,
and
preferably,
I
think
surveys
are
important.
I
mean
that's,
why
we're
doing
one,
but
also
I
mean
I
think
that
the
city
can
facilitate.
That
we
can't
is
is
having
it
as
kind
of
a
public
discussion,
because
I
think
I
think
that
would
be
useful
and
whether
that's
virtual
over
zoom,
probably
at
this
point,
would
be
best.
E
But
I
mean
I
think
that
you
know
the
city
and
residents
have
a
lot
of
things
to
be
proud
of
with
transit,
and
I
think
that
you
know
we
can
highlight
that
in
a
public
forum
and
also
get
some
good
ideas
to
rebuild
the
system.
At
the
same
time,
I
think
creating
that
kind
of
excitement-
investment
as
this
is
a
big
part
of
driving
our
future-
would
be
a
good
way
to
go.
E
To
be
quite
honest,
if
we
get
if
we
end
up
with
the
amount
of
of
results
like
responses
that
we're
hoping
to
and
as
I
said,
the
next
stage
in
our
campaign
is
hoping
that
we're
actually
hoping
to
buy
some
ads
on
transit
to
to
allow
people
to
easily
scan
a
qr
code
and
fill
out
the
survey.
We've
got
some
funding
that
we've
generated.
For
that.
G
C
H
C
C
So,
as
we
all
know,
queen
students
could
board
a
any
city,
bus
and
show
their
queen's
id
and
and
the
driver
would
record
it
by
pressing
a
button.
I
believe,
and
that
would
be
the
access
to
the
service
and
they
paid
for
that.
They
paid
a
monthly
fee
through
through
their
student
fees,
which
they
could
not
opt
out
of,
and
it
was
based
on.
You
know
the
ams
position
on
on
transit
in
the
city,
and
that
is
no
longer
the
case.
C
The
decision
was
made
because
of
the
pandemic
to
suspend
that
partnership,
which,
of
course
has
a
profound
effect
on
transit
ridership.
So
I
wonder
if
you
could
just
talk
to
that
and
whether
you've
been
in
communication
with
well
ams,
or
it
also
involves
st
lawrence
college
in
the
in
their
system.
Although
it's
separate,
I'm
wondering
if
you've
had,
where
are
you
on
on
that
direct
communication
with
the
student
governments
and
with
the
city
on
that
aspect,.
E
So
yeah
I
I've
raised
it
with
transit
staff
and-
and
you
know
they
tell
me
that
these
you
know
that
this
is
not
obviously
a
closed
door.
I
think
they,
I
don't
want
to
speak
for
them,
but
I
think
I
I
think
that
you
know
they.
They
are
still
discussing
with
ams
about
about
possibly
resuming
this
program,
and
you
know
my
understanding
of
it
is
it's
it's.
It's
really
governed
by
the
fact
that
that
student
associations
were
leery
of
charging
a
fee
if
in-person.
G
E
E
You
know
I
know
queens,
for
example,
is
committing
itself
to
the
sustainable
development
goals
and
to
making
more
of
a
positive
impact
as
a
climate
citizen
in
our
community.
It's
absolutely
fundamental
that
you
know
the
students
are
recognized
as
a
big
part
of
our
community,
a
big
part
of
the
heart
of
our
community
and
one
of
the
ways
that
students
are
in
the
community.
G
E
So
all
that
to
say
is
that
we
see
that
as
part
of
our
role
as
as
much
as
possible
to
help
facilitate
that
and-
and
I
haven't
had
those
discussions
with
st
lawrence.
Yet
I've
done
some
outreach,
but
I
have
not
gotten
to
the
right
people
yet
at
queen's
the
natural
partner
for
us.
Given
that
you
know
one.
C
E
So
we
are
going
to
be
contributing
to
that
campaign
as
we
see
appropriate,
because
I
totally
agree
it's
important
for
so
many
reasons,
not
just
rebuilding
our
transit,
it's
the
kind
of
community
that
we
want
to
be
I
mean,
as
somebody
who
lives
here
and
loves
it
and
lives
near
students
and
and
near
queens.
Like,
I
think
it's,
I
think
it's
really
important
that
queens
and
san
lorenz
students
are
are
part
of
the
fabric
of
our
community,
however
possible,
and
I
think
transit
was
a
big
way
that
that
happened.
That
is
less
obvious.
E
C
Thank
you.
Thank
you
for
your
thoughts
on
that.
It
is
an
important
piece
and-
and
and
it's
nice
to
hear
that
you're
very
much
aware
of
that.
My
other
question
had
to
do
with
what
something
you
said
about
the
possibly
changing
landscape
of
of
the
subside
subsidies
from
the
province
such
as
odsp
and
and
transit,
and
so
some
you
know.
C
My
colleagues
are
aware,
of
course,
that
we
didn't
always
have
these
discounted
transit
passes,
and
you
know
some
of
it
came
about
as
a
result
of
advocacy
from
other
community
groups,
and
so
I
guess
the
question
would
be
you
you've
said
you
know.
What
is
the
one
of
your
questions
was:
what's
the
city
going
to
do
if
the
provincial
landscape
changes
such
as
such
programs
being
discontinued
from
by
the
province,
for
example?
E
Yeah,
I
mean
for
sure
I
mean
it's
one
of
the
many
reasons
why
I
don't
envy
the
job
of
council
and
staff,
but
I
can
say
from
our
perspective
that
we
we,
you
know
believe
that
everybody
has
a
right
to
mobility.
Everyone
has
a
right
to
move
about
their
community
and
access
the
places
they
need
to
go
and
the
places
that
bring
us
joy
in
life-
and
you
know
it's
great-
that
there
is
the
level
of
provincial
support
that
there
is
that
allows.
G
E
E
E
I
would
urge
council
and
staff
to
and
I'm
sure
that
that
they
already
are,
I'm
sure
staff
already
are,
but
I
want
to
surface
it
and
raise
it
to
investigate
possible
ways
to
maintain
that
program
in
the
event
that
the
provincial
landscape
changed
and
does
that
mean
is
there?
Is
there
federal?
Is
there
a
federal,
you
know,
coalition
of
municipalities
money?
Are
there
other
federal
programs
that
can
be
accessed
to
support
this?
E
Are
we
going
to
make
sure
some
way
that
that
we
invest
in
our
transit
system
and
we
make
sure
it's
equity?
So
basically
I
I
would
like
to
you
know
help
our
group
is
willing
to
help
be
part
of
solutions
to
this,
and
we
hope
it
doesn't
come
to
that
past.
But
if
so,
I
would
encourage
the
city
to
be
thinking
proactively
and
creatively.
C
C
G
G
Can
I
then
say
that
man
that
transit
manager,
jeremy
decosta,
was
extremely
helpful?
He
talked
to
us
about
some
of
the
issues
and
I
really
appreciate
it
and
he
and
it
was
very
important
because
it
changed
what
I
was
going
to
say
because
he
corrected
miss
apprehensions.
My
part,
so
I
really
appreciated
that.
Thank
you.
G
Now
I'd
like
to
start
my
presentation,
if
I
can
thank
you
for
allowing
me
to
do
that,
thank
you
for
letting
me
appear.
You
know
as
you,
as
you
know,
I
can
be
somewhat
abrasive
and
and
people
who
are
involved
in
the
environmental
advisory
forum.
I
think
council
al-sadiq
and
mr
mcclatchy
were
there.
I
pressed
many
years
ago.
I
was
very
aggressive
about
saying
that
we
had
a
climate
crisis
coming
and
that
we
should
start
making
plans
to
to
ameliorate
the
situation,
and
I
was
told
at
that
time.
G
Well,
we
don't
know
what
the
implants
are
going
to
actually
going
to
be.
We
can't
do
that,
and
this
was
of
course,
a
scientific
based
organization.
I
said
yes,
we
do
know,
we
know
they're
going
to
be
higher
greater
storm
surges.
We
know
that
heavier
rainfall.
We
know
there's
going
to
be
heat
variations
in
heat
that
are
going
to
be
a
problem
and
that's
what's
come
about
and
we
should
have
started
then,
but
I'm
going
to
be
in
the
same
extreme
position,
pushing
the
boundaries
here
on
trans.
G
G
G
G
Waterloo
group
saying
that
you
can't
really
get
full
ridership
until
you
have
a
sufficiently
slow
head
time
so
that
people
can
don't
can
get
adequate
service.
I
think
they
said
10
minutes.
Minimum
ahead
time
might
have
been
less
so
we're
not
going
to
get
full
full
use
of
the
transit
system
until
we
can
get
the
head
time
down,
and
that
means
expenditure
and
ahead
of
time
to
get
it
there.
G
So
you,
I
think
the
council,
if
you
want
to
be
to
have
a
sustainable
city,
if
you
really
want
to
be
make
transit
available
to
people
and
and
usable,
then
you
have
to
make
the
expense
initial
expenses
to
increase
right
frequency
of
service.
It's
essential
critical
to
build
the
service.
The
other
critical
component,
of
course,
is
density
so
and
plenty
of
lines.
So
you
do
go
to
the
most
dense
areas.
G
G
So
if
people
pay
the
taxes,
upfront
there's
a
benefit,
the
same
thing
goes
for
transit.
You
have
to
be
it's
you
it's
my
perception
that
use
the
policy
makers
of
the
city
and
use
the
opinion.
Leaders
of
the
city
need
to
push
the
idea
that
we
need
to.
We
can
need
to
expand
taxes
or
tax
income
to
expand
the
service
up
front,
because
the
long-term
benefit
is
reduced.
Costs
to
the
people.
G
Not
only
do
the
economic
benefits
which
there
are
and
people
getting
access
to
services
they
need,
which
increase
the
economic
dynamics
of
our
society
or
a
city,
but
people
may
not
need
an
extra
car.
Okay,
I'm
done
you
get
the
point
either
you
do
it
up
front
and
there's
a
payoff,
and
we
have
to
convince
people
that
it
will
pay.
Thank
you.
C
D
Thank
you,
and
through
you
thanks
for
your
presentation,
you
make
a
really
good
point.
There
now,
you're
also
with
the
just
recovery
group
and
the
presentation
earlier
mentioned.
The
survey,
and
you
mentioned
survey
I
believe
as
well,
but
will
you
with
this
with
the
report
that
goes
with
this
survey,
perhaps
offer
some
suggestions
of
what
what
routes
could
be
expanded
or
increased?
Like
you
were
talking
about
the
time
span
between
buses
arriving
like
reducing
it
to
10
minutes?
G
G
There
are
problems
in
doing
that
unless
you
have,
unless
we
have
a
full
structure
enough
people
from
enough
parts
of
the
city
to
be
able
to
know
that
and
to
know
what
the
full
ridership
is.
I
think
the
city,
I
think
I
think
the
transit
manager
has
a
capacity
to
to
address
that
also
because
looking
at
the
fair
structures
give
some
idea
the
problem
with
that,
of
course,
is
it
doesn't
reflect
on
the
people
who
are
not
using
it
and
would
use
it.
Hopefully,
the
survey
will
capture
that.
D
Yeah
sure,
and
so
just
to
really
recap.
What
you
were
saying
is
that
we
really
should
be.
It
will
take
a
while
for
things
to
come
back
and
it's
a
really
good
example
that
you're
used
to
viewing
your
wife,
so
it'll
take
a
while
for
it
to
get
back
and
to
pre-covert
levels.
But
we
could
utilize
this
time
to
actually
build
on
the
services.
G
G
And
there's
a
much
more
traffic
congestion
with
so
what
I'm
trying?
How
I'm
trying
to
answer?
Your
question
is
that
you
can't
go
we
have
to.
We
have
to
maintain
what
we
have
now
we
have
to
make
it
available
or
it
won't
come
back
and
yeah.
So
it's
it's
going
to
be
pressure.
I
mean
there's
a
financial
pressures
on
doing
that,
because,
where
you're
going
to
get
the
funds
well,
that
is
a
challenge,
but
but
there'll
be
long-term
severe
costs.
If
we
don't
maintain
it
and
it's
expanding
it.
G
It's
I
don't
think
the
fact
that
we
that
I
don't
think
covert
19
changes,
the
wonder
that
the
reality
that
we
have
to
expand
it.
So
it's
not
a
matter
of
using
this
time
to
do
it.
It's
a
matter
of
using
it's
a
matter
of
doing
it,
whether
it
was
covert
going
on
or
not.
We
have
to
go
that
route
or
it
won't
the
right
ship
would
increase
and-
and
we
won't
get
people
to
ride
the
buses
unless
they
have
adequate
reduced
head
time.
G
G
It's
it's
going
to
be
costly
to
do
at
first,
whether
we
have
the
relative
loss
of
income
compared
to
what
you
really
have
to
do
is
only
a
part
of
the
issue
it
may
cost.
There
may
be
higher
costs
now
because
you've
lost
the
income,
but
you
can't
wait
for
the
income
to
go
up.
Here's
his
word
in
my
slightly
different
different
with
with
or
I'm
slightly
off
from
what
jeremy
said.
G
There's
an
implication.
Jeremy
didn't
say
it's
with
a
sort
of
an
implication:
we
have
to
build
up
ridership,
so
we
can
run
it
so
we
can
have
an
adequate
available
system.
I'm
not
sure
he
said
that,
but
I
fear
that's
the
possible
way
you
feel
which
go
and
that's
a
mistake,
because
you
have
to
first
make
the
investment
for
the
red
ridership
to
come
up.
I'm
hoping
I'm
repeating
myself
and
I
hope
I
didn't
fumble
that
too
much.
C
No,
that
was
pretty
clear,
mr
grantor,
you
you
said
pretty
clearly
about
having
a
investment
in
the
future
and
having
to
invest
in
the
system
and
that's
what
will
drive
ridership
expansion
rather
than
waiting
for
magical
ridership
expansion
to
appear
and
give
us
the
revenues
to
be
able
to
expand.
It's
basically,
your
point
from
a
mistake,
better
said.
Thank
you.
B
B
B
I
think
it's
tuesdays
and
thursdays
and
they
say
in
non-peak
time
we
give
free
transit
to
seniors
and
for
retired
people
that's
a
huge
benefit
because
they
can
do
their
grocery
shopping.
They
can
arrange
their
appointments
around
those
times
and
what
a
lot
of
people
don't
recognize
is
this
isn't
a
net
loss
at
all
for
municipality,
because
our
provincial
funding
is
based
on
ridership,
which
is
one
of
the
reasons
why
we've
been
able
to
benefit
from
the
queen's
st
lawrence
and
high
school
free
passes?
B
G
I
like
that.
Okay,
I
want
to
clarify
this
is
where
one
of
the
areas
I
tended
to
shift
very
slightly
from
the
just
recovery
position.
Access
to
the
transit
is
in
itself
a
separate
issue
from
widespread
use,
making
it
a
veil.
You
raise
the
issue,
you
raise.
The
idea
that
increasing
access
and
increasing
use
has
a
dir
affects
the
funding
formula
and
that's
something
I
didn't
know
about.
I
did
mr
the
cost
of
mentioning.
G
So
that's
fine,
if
you're,
using
that
as
a
strategy
to
increase
your
funding
get,
but
it's
more
important
that
you're
doing
it.
So
the
people
who
need
the
service
get
the
service
for
that
matter.
I
think
that
the
fares
should
be
reduced
350
to
to
go
if
on
a
10
minute.
Ride
is
excessive
in
this
city
and
it
doesn't
deter
to
people
to
use
the
transit
and
it's
not
fair
and
the
people
most
need
it.
G
We
have
to
get
them
out
of
the
automobiles
and
on
to
the
buses
and
it
has
to
be
beneficial
for
them.
They
have
to
want
to
ride
the
buses,
they
have
to
see
the
benefit
of
it
and
and
those
people
you're
not
giving
occasional
free
rides
here
and
there
I
is
not
is
not
what
I'm
saying
is
fine,
I'm
all
for
that's
why
I
do
it.
G
G
B
G
Yes,
yeah
when
I
was
on
the
transit
advisory
committee
that
we
set
up
many
years
ago,
that
was
one
of
our
proposals
to
have
shopping
times,
not
exactly
that.
What
we
said
was
have
some
roots
short-term
routes
and
arrangements
where
people
in
senior
buildings
could
get
rides
to
shop
and
way
of
building
a
brideship
in
off
times
yeah.
So
I'm
all
for
it,
I'm
not
against
the
idea.
You're
right
on
you've
said
it.
Well,
I
appreciate
it.
Thank
you.
C
C
So
so,
okay,
first
of
all
on
the
question
of
this,
wasn't
what
council
o'neill
said.
Basically
halifax
has
a
system
that
provides
free
transit
to
a
demographic
two
mornings
a
week
or
something
like
that.
So
in
other
words,
it's
intermittent
free
transit
for
a
certain
group
which
is
obviously
a
partial,
a
partial
way
along
to
the
to
just
free
transit
in
general.
C
G
G
So
that's
going
to
vary
from
this
idea
of
free
trade.
I
had
to
get
that
out,
but
pre.
I
do
think
that
transit
should
be
free.
In
essence,
it
should
be,
or
it'll
cost
me
so
low
that
it's
marginally
costly,
marginally
cost
marginal
because
it
should
be
accessible
to
all.
Just
as
healthcare
should
be
accessible
to
all,
it
should
be
the
main
form
of
transportation.
Getting
around
people
should
be
able
to
get
to
work
and
from
work
to
be
able
to
get
their
shopping
lists
your
doctor's
appointments
and
and
easily.
G
A
G
C
C
Before
the
pandemic,
we
were
looking
at
a
10
minute
service
and
possibly
moving
to
seven
and
a
half
minute
service.
So
do
you
think
at
that
point
we
were
on
that
one
route
we
were
getting
to
the
to
the
point
where
you
really
overwhelm
the
individual
transport
system
and
and
mass
transit
becomes
actually
preferable.
G
G
G
G
I
mean
you
just
have
to
wait.
15
minutes,
so
I
worry
about
how
that's
going
to
operate.
Your
experts
will
have
to
tell
you
you
know
when
we
had
the
style
of
bus
in
kingston
and
it
was
not
a
success
and
I
don't
know
why
it
wasn't
just
because
I've
used
it
a
lot
that
had
the
capacity
to
improve
the
accessibility
of
the
study
to
people
of
accessibility
of
the
service
to
people.
I
think
some
innovative
steps
may
be
needed
on
the
collector
routes
to
make
it
work.
But
but
again
that's
a
vague
idea.
G
G
C
C
C
So
then
we
go
to
business
and
there's
one
item
of
business.
It's
an
update
on
the
master
plan
for
enhanced
bio
solids
management
and
biogas
utilization
recommendation
for
consent.
Further
access,
sorry
further
assess
the
knox
farm
site
as
the
preferred
solution.
It's
a
very
long
title
for
for
this
item,
but
it
is
very
descriptive.
C
I
Thank
you,
and
through
you,
mr
chair
I'll,
provide
a
brief
introduction
to
the
report
and,
if
you
just
saw
it
when
completely
black,
where
I
am
our
our
our
lights
are
on
timers
here.
So
if
I'm
not
moving
around
enough,
they
will
shut
off.
So
if
I
go
into
darkness
I'll
be
back
and
be
waving
my
hands
around.
So
thank
you
again.
I
The
preferred
solution.
That's
in
the
plan
provides
an
opportunity
to
process
two
waste
streams,
biosolids
and
source
separated
organics
at
one
facility
to
produce
a
renewable
natural
gas
with
the
intent
to
reduce
the
overall
greenhouse
gas
emissions
generated
from
city
operations,
while
generating
revenue
to
offset
the
cost
of
operating
the
details
of
what's
included
in
the
phase
three
step
of
the
ea
is
included
in
the
report.
I
So
I
won't
go
into
all
of
those
details,
but
I
will
note
a
couple
of
things
I'll
note
that
this
phase
would
include
ongoing
engagement
with
crca,
as
well
as
open
engagement
with
any
interested
parties.
Indigenous
residents,
community
members
review
agencies
in
the
general
public
I
do
want
to
be.
I
do
want
to
be
clear
that
this
report.
I
C
F
F
Thank
you,
mr
chair,
through
you
yeah,
I'm
happy
to
hear
that
the
next
like.
If
this
passes
tonight,
then
the
next
phase
will
be
is
what
looks
into
the
odor
and
when
it
does
look
into
the
odor,
I
suppose
one
of
the
things
or
hopefully
it
would
be
covered
as
to
what
type
of
distance
the
odor
would
spread
out
like
just
how
far
away
it
is
because
knox
farm.
I
think
it's
a
good
location,
but
I
do
know
that
there's
one
house
that
is
rented
out
on
the
crca
property.
F
F
You
know
the
businesses
along
mcadoo's
lane
would
be
affected
as
well,
so
glad
that
that
will
be
looked
at
in
the
next
phase
and
just
one
question
about:
what's
going
to
be
taken,
you
know
to
generate
or
do
the
with
the
methane
right,
we're
looking
at
biosolids
and
we're
looking
at
the
green
bin,
so
that
wouldn't
include
pet
waste
right
like
we
wouldn't
be
able
to
expand
it
out
to
pet
waste.
You
know
miss
robert's
fat
waste
is
my
thing.
I
Through
your
chair,
the
preferred
solution,
that's
being
contemplated
in
the
master
plan,
isn't
anaerobic
as
it
as
it
stands
today.
So,
although
that's
through
the
process,
so
assuming
that
that
green
bin
waste
material
would
still
have
to
be
stored
in
a
storage
facility
before
going
through
a
facility,
so
there
there
will
be
odors.
There's
no
question
about
it.
I
So
to
address
your
first
comment
about
looking
into
the
odor
yes,
so
when
we're
looking
at
the
preferred
solution
and
alternatives,
we
we
will
look
at
existing
facilities
that
that
are
present
around
the
world
and
be
looking
at
at
what
kind
of
range.
We
think
that
those
voters
will
will
go
to
so
that
will
be
part
of
it
and
then
your
next
question
about
pet
waste.
I
D
Thank
you
and
through
you
thanks
for
the
report.
I
just
wonder
if
you
could
just
go
a
little
bit
into
more
detail
about
the
environmental
impact
assessment
that
this
will
include
because,
like
today
we're
going
to
just
be
voting
on
the
report
and-
and
I
think
most
people
would
be
concerned
about
the
environmental
impact
being
so
close
to
the
conservation
area
as
well
as
so
that's
yeah,
okay,
that's
question
one
thanks.
I
For
you,
mr
chair,
I
I
will
identify
that
phase.
Three
will
look
at
the
environmental
impacts
of
this
kind
of
facility
or
any
of
the
alternatives
that
are
contemplated
as
well
and
within
the
report
we
have
identified
a
number
of
implications
and
also
opportunities
that
need
to
be
looked
for
looked
at
as
part
of
phase
three,
so
it
will
include
odors
and
impacts
to
the
neutral
environment.
We
do
understand
that
the
crca
is
an
adjacent
neighbor
and
and
that
they
are
a
very
important
group
to
be
consulting
with
there.
I
There
will
be
many,
but
we
we
know
that
that
they
are
as
well
and
phase.
Three
will
will
look
at
the
impact
of
that
natural
environment
for
for
this
kind
of
for
this
kind
of
development.
So
I
don't
have
those
I
don't
have
all
of
the
details
of
what
it
will,
what
it
will
entail,
but
it
will
look
at
the
impact
of
the
natural
environment.
I
For
you,
mr
chair,
yes,
so
those
details
are
not
identified
completely
in
the
master
plan
and
we
do
know
that
we
need
to
be
able
to
identify
the
overall
greenhouse
gas
emission
impacts
from
the
development
itself,
including
transportation
of
those
two
way
strings
to
the
site
and
as
identified
in
the
report.
That
is
one
of
the
that's
one
of
the
elements
of
of
selecting
knox
farm
as
a
preferred
site.
I
Sorry
is
the
location,
the
central
location
and
access
from
the
401,
but
we
know
that
that
site
itself
will
generate
emissions
and
but
what
is
the?
What
is
the
offset
or
the
savings
from
having
this
kind
of
facility
versus
the
traditional
methods
of
of
managing
that
waste?
And
that
does
need
to
be
identified
in
the
next
phase.
B
Thank
you
and
thank
you
for
your
report
and
the
recommendations.
I'm
curious
because
there
were
a
couple
of
questions
asked
when
the
project
was
first
introduced,
asked
by
councillor
usteroff,
who
represents
our
rural
area,
and
I
appreciate
that
he
had
to
send
his
regrets
tonight.
But
has
he
been?
Have
you
been
able
to
be
in
consultation
with
him
and
have
you
presented
to
the
rural
advisory
committee
and
with
the
update
of
your
plans.
H
So
if
I
could
take
this
one,
mr
chair
and
heather,
you
by
all
means
jump
in
if
you
like,
but
thank
you
counselor
neil.
So
I
did
have
an
opportunity
to
speak
to
counselor
user
hoff.
Probably
two
weeks
ago,
is
hoping
to
meet
with
him
again
before
this
meeting.
He
hasn't
been
able
to
to
pull
that
off
and
it's
unfortunate
couldn't
be
here
tonight,
but
I
did
update
him
on
this
on
this
report.
H
I
don't
want
to
speak
for
counselor
user
hoff,
but
we
did
have
a
very
a
very
good,
very
good
discussion,
and
I
know
he
was
he's
looking
forward
to
the
next
steps
of
this
project,
but
obviously,
as
a
district
counselor,
I
wants
to
be
involved,
so
we
definitely
want
to
keep
councillor
gustroff
involved-
and
I
do
believe,
spoke
to
him
several
months
ago
about
this
possibility
as
well.
So
he
is,
dare
I
say
well
informed,
but
unfortunately,
isn't
isn't
here
tonight.
H
We've
also
identified
a
staff
and
with
ms
roberts
and
her
team
that
the
real
advisory
committee
should
be
is
part
of
that
stakeholder
group.
I
did
talk
to
counselor
ustof
about
that
as
well.
So
a
definite
key
key
stakeholder
and,
as
with
any
the
real
projects
we
like
to
like
to
get
their
input
on
it
and
have
have
them
involved
big
time
right.
H
Yeah,
I
think
councillor
stroud,
so
I
don't
know
exactly
how
long
the
the
city
and
I
think
former
township
is
on
the
property,
but
it's
definitely
a
pre-amalgamation
it.
It
has
been
used.
It's
currently
in
use
as
a
snow
management
facility
on
the
annual
basis.
Well,
really,
it's
year-round,
but
it's
definitely
used
for
that.
C
Right
so
it's
municipally
owned
and
has
been
for
some
time
and
it
has
been
used
for
large
storage
operations,
whether
it's
snow
winter
operations,
snow
and-
and
you
know,
salt
and
everything
that
piles
up
on
the
roads,
as
well
as
some
of
that
sewer,
dredging
or
the
river
dredging
for
the
sewer
and
it's
a
large
property.
It's
not
far
from
the
city,
but
it
is
beyond
the
serviceable
area
of
the
urban
boundary,
and
I
guess
you
know
the
only
other
question
I
would
have
is
it
are
there
other
sites?
C
I
mean
this
one's
venus
beyond
and
it's
it's
got.
It's
had
this
kind
of
use
before
so
it's
logical
that
it
be
considered
by
the.
Are
there
any
other
possibilities
that
even
compare
like
I
mean?
What
are
we
comparing
this
to
anything
or
is
it
just
like?
We
have
we
have
this
available
and
that's
why
we're
recommending
it.
H
Thank
you
and
I'll
start.
I
know
heather
can
can
add
on
to
this,
based
on
the
the
master
planning
study,
but
several
characteristics
were,
you
know,
deemed
sufficient
to
to
select
this
site
as
the
as
as
the
most
logical
and
one
for
further
assessment.
Through
the
environmental
assessment
process,
its
size
is
attractive
because
the
footprint
of
the
facility,
I
would
be
right
now
slated
at
less
than
five
acres
and
you're
looking
at
a
site.
That's
nearly
200
acres.
H
H
Of
course,
proximity
to
the
major
corridor
the
401
is
is
is
very
important
because
of
all
the
different
inputs
that
would
be
coming
potentially
from
kingston
and
various
sources
from
green
bin
programs
from
our
treatment
plants,
but
also
potentially
from
other
regions
from
a
from
a
revenue
and
critical
mass
perspective.
So
having
access
is
both
good
for
convenience,
but
also
from
greenhouse
gas
emissions
for
for
convenience
and
that
sort
of
thing.
H
And
yes,
it's
history,
it's
it's
municipal
ownership
is
attractive,
doesn't
need
to
be
purchased
or
amalgamated
several
sites
to
get
that
size
of
property.
So
those
are
some
of
the
key
characteristics
that
when
looked
at
in
other
options
and
heather,
maybe
you
could
speak
to
that
through
the
work
of
the
consultant
on
the
master
planning
process
it
ticked
most
of
the
boxes
or,
if
not
all,
of
them
to
get
it
to
this
next
stage
compared
to
other
options.
I
Thank
you
through
your
chair
thanks
thanks
pete,
I
don't
have
much
to
add
other
than,
and
I
apologize
pete.
If
you
mentioned
this,
but
it's
location
to
the
the
natural
gas
pipeline
there
as
well.
That's
the
that's
the
gateway
into
the
city,
so
the
other
sites
that
were
located
in
the
master
planning
process
was
a
location
at
an
existing
wastewater
treatment,
plant,
so
ravens
view
or
cataractway
bay.
C
Yes,
thank
you
that
sounds
like
actually
a
pretty
big
plus,
they
say,
location,
location,
location
right
being
so
close
to
the
you
know.
The
gas
arterials,
however,
we're
not
at
the
end
of
the
process,
so
we
should
be
as
a
committee.
We
should
be
aware
of
what
tonight
entails.
So
there's
no
limit
on
questions.
Does
anyone
want
to
ask
a
second
round
of
questions.
H
H
C
A
C
C
All
right
so
that
eitp
recommended
council,
the
council
consent
to
utilities
kingston
further
investigating
the
proposed
use
of
the
knox
farm
property,
as
identified
in
the
master
plan
for
the
development
of
an
integrated,
biosolids
and
source
separated
organics
facility,
and
that
the
consent
is
limited
for
the
purpose
of
advancing
phase.
Three
alternative
design
concept
for
the
preferred
solution
of
the
municipal
class
environmental
assessment
and
any
other
potential
sub-investigations.
C
C
I
would
just
say
before
we
vote
that,
like
I
said
it's
an
intermediate
step
and
that
the
council
decision
is
not
as
a
result
of
this
recommendation
from
the
itp,
there
will
be
further
reports
so
seeing
no
hands.
I
guess
I
I'm
calling
the
question
on
the
recommendation,
all
those
in
favor
opposed
and
that
carries
unanimously,
but
thanks
to
staff
for
this
item
and
for
the
interactions
yes
and
that's
always
as
as
always
good
to
see
ms
roberts
at
eitp.
C
C
C
C
I
didn't
say
this
before,
but
when
we
had
those
two
delegations
that
were
speaking
to
transit
and
there's
no
one
here
from
transit,
there
was
no
one
there.
The
commissioner
wasn't
here
the
only
way.
That's
those
members
of
staff
would
be
aware
of
what
of
of
the
delegation's
comments
tonight
and
questions
would
be
well.
There's
the
promise
correspondence
from
the
just
recovery
group,
but
there's
also
just
a
video
of
this
committee
meeting.
So
I'm
wondering
madam
kirk.
C
C
G
H
Was
so
I'll
jump
in
as
that?
No
I'm
just
I'm
just
kidding
around,
but
I
did
send
a
note
to
to
director
de
costa
jeremy
decosta,
so
he
he
was
aware
of
the
delegations
tonight.
He
had
recently
met
with
them,
as
mr
ventura
had
said.
I
believe,
and
he
is
aware
of
the
presentations
tonight
and
he
will
review
and
happy
to
keep
working
with
them
on
those
things.
H
C
So
then
we
go
back
to
just
what's
left
of
the
agenda,
which
is
really
just
next
meeting,
which
is
in
two
months
on
tuesday
december
14th,
mr
vice
chair,
nothing's
official.
Yet,
but
I
am
scheduled
on
the
rotating
schedule
to
work
nights
that
night,
I
I
usually
try
to
trade
trade
them
without
going
too
much
into
my
schedule,
I'm
hoping
to
be
able
to
make
it,
but
there's
a
chance
I
might
not
be
able
to
so.
You
may
be
called
into
duty
on
december
14th,
no.