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From YouTube: Kingston Ontario - EITP Meeting - April 12, 2016
Description
Environment, Infrastructure & Transportation Policies meeting from April 12, 2016. For the full meeting agenda visit http://bit.ly/2cUaPAa
A
A
Not
seeing
any
we're
gonna
call
a
question
on
the
approval
of
the
agenda,
all
in
favor
hands
up
great
conformation
of
the
minutes.
From
the
minutes
of
the
meeting
from
the
EIT
P
held
on
Tuesday
March
8th
2016
motion
to
approve
councillor
Neill
seconded
by
Councillor
Schell,
and
you
know,
missions,
errors
or
corrections
to
be
made.
A
A
And
I'm,
seeing
none
any
delegations
seeing
none
briefings,
we
have
one
in
a
little
bit
but
we'll
get
first
to
business.
Seven,
a
water
and
natural
gas
conservation,
incentive
programs
and
the
report
and
recommendation
is
here
in
the
in
the
agenda
and
I:
don't
I
think
Steve.
Mr.
so
Till's
here
it
might
give
us
some
information
on
the
mister.
Keach
will
speak
to
that.
B
At
utilities,
Kingston,
Kingston
hydro,
we
believe
we've
had
some
extremely
successful
conservation
programs,
particularly
an
electric
side,
where
we
have
been
recognized
by
our
peers
at
the
provincial
level
and
we've
taken
them
right
into
the
water
waste
water
over
the
last
number
of
years
again
with
I.
Think
some
very
successful
programs
and
the
the
final
area
that
we
want
to
introduce
some
programs
in
is
in
regards
to
natural
gas,
the
natural
gas
utility
that
the
municipality
owned.
So
we
I
think
our
approach
with
this
assumed
leader.
B
C
A
quick
question
of
every
time,
with
both
hydro
and
and
gas,
we
always
face
the
harsh
reality
that
our
best
served
area
in
the
city
are
served
by
Kingston
utilities
and
there
are
other
servers
in
the
area.
Whatever
we
do,
whatever
action
we
take,
is
there
any
way
that
we
can
work
collaboratively
with
Union
Gas
so
that
Kingston,
East
and
Kingston
West
can
indeed
have
the
same
sort
of
program.
C
D
A
good
question:
thank
you
for
that.
Firstly,
that
we
do
work
quite
collaboratively
already
with
hydro
ones,
representatives
and
union
gases
representatives
in
the
area.
We
have
a
good
working
relationship.
We
share
resources
back
and
forth.
In
this
circumstance
for
natural
gas
conservation,
the
recommendation
is
actually
to
match
on
a
per
meter
cubed
basis
what
Union
gas
already
offers
to
their
commercial
customers.
So
in
this
case
it's
actually
the
other
way
around.
You
know.
E
What
I
was
interested
in
is
the
sort
of
conundrum
where
conservation
reduces
gas
volumes
which
decreases
revenues
which,
which
is
in
a
sort
of
conflict
of
interest
of
sorts
I,
don't
mean
that
literally
the
so
I
take
it
that
it
still
works
out
for
the
customer
and
for
utilities
Kingston,
because
the
increases
on
the
fixed
cross,
rather
than
the
variable
you're,
distributing
those
costs
across
the
fixed
costs,
the
fixed
costs
and
so
marginally.
You
end
up
ahead.
Everybody
ends
up
ahead.
D
In
the
case
of
natural
gas,
you
are
correct
when
volumes
are
reduced
that
reduces
the
throughput
through
our
fixed
system,
which
in
turn
can
serve
to
increase
either
the
fixed
or
the
variable
portion
of
the
rate.
It's
got
to
come
from
somewhere.
In
this
case,
what
we're
asking
for
is
reallocation
of
budget
that
has
already
been
committed,
so
we
are
not
going
to
see
great
impacts
from
the
incentives
leaving
utilities
Kingston.
D
Whether
or
not
those
offset
the
costs
of
the
ratepayer
certainly
depends
on
the
price
of
carbon
that
is
yet
to
be
set
at
auction.
So
I
think.
In
my
view,
there
is
a
impact
to
the
utility
from
reduced
gas
volumes
and
we
recognize
that
I
believe
in
the
port
report,
we've
sort
of
said
Yap.
There
is
a
rate
impact,
however,
our
regulated
other
regulated
gas
distributors
in
the
in
the
province.
D
They
are
required
by
the
Ontario
Energy
Board
to
offer
these
programs
and
they
do
allocate
those
costs
to
their
rate
basis
and
so
now,
and
they
are
also
they
recover
their
lost
revenues
from
their
rate
basis.
So
these
costs
are
already
built
into
the
other
regulated
entities
rates.
Once
again,
there
will
be
an
impact
it
it
will.
We
hope
that
we
can
learn
enough
about
the
actual
impacts
by
running
this
pilot
program,
that
we
can
have
some
very
good
answers
and
very
good
numbers
when,
when
cap
and
trade
does
come
around.
E
E
So,
thank
you
for
the
answer,
because
my
next
question
was
on
the
cabin
tree.
Okay
and
but
I
noticed
says
here.
The
mechanism
for
recovery
of
these
causes
not
yet
been
determined.
So
you,
we
are
not
sure,
like
for
the
customer
for
the
resident,
we're
not
sure
whether
this
is
gonna
cost
them
more
cuz
you're
gonna
have
to
buy
those
those
carbon
offsets
right
and
that's
got
to
come
from
someplace
there's
only
one
source.
That's
the
customer
and
you're
not
sure
what
the
effect
is
on
the
utility
either.
E
E
Wouldn't
it
be
simpler.
I
know
that's
not
politically
palatable,
because
it
looks
like
you're
actually
doing
more
when
you
have
a
cap-and-trade
process
in
place,
but
who's
it
benefiting.
These
are
some
of
my
questions
like
for
me:
I
represent
the
population
of
which
the
utilities
is
a
part
I.
You
know
we
all
sit
on
that
board,
so
we're
responsible
for
that
to
come.
E
E
B
So
the
part
I
was
going
to
respond
to
as
a
cap-and-trade
and
my
I
think
the
the.
Why
not
raise
the
place.
That's
probably
a
question
that
you
could
propose
to
premier
Wynne,
as
opposed
to
me:
they're,
not
I'm,
not
dodging
the
quote,
but
I.
My
more
serious
answer
is
the
the
cap-and-trade
is
something
that
we
are
as
an
industry
and
I
know.
Mr.
hunt
as
a
municipality
is
looking
into
an
affair
amount
of
detail.
B
We've
actually
got
a
report
going
to
the
UK
board
meeting
in
a
week
or
so
and
I
think
as
a
follow
up,
there
will
be
reports
coming
back
to
Council
with
more
detail
in
regards
to
cap
and
trade.
It's
a
it's.
It's
a
bit
confusing
I
would
say
at
the
moment
and
I
think
a
lot
of
us
are
trying
to
you
know
trying
to
decipher
through
it
I
think.
B
At
the
end
of
the
day,
my
understanding
is
the
the
whole
purpose
of
the
cap
and
trade
is
environmentally
focused,
and
you
know
the
the
comment
about
raised.
The
prices
I
was
at
a
session
in
Toronto,
where
they
were
talking
about
sort
of
the
same
thing.
In
raising
the
prices,
and
where
would
you
need
to
raise
it
to
actually
get
people
to
make
a
difference
in
what
they
were
doing
and
they
weren't
necessarily
talking
about
raising
the
gas
prices
but
raising
the
cap
and
trade.
B
I
was
gonna,
call
it
action,
that's
what's
called
a
tax,
but
the
the
charge
of
the
cap.
The
cap
and
trade
will
put
on,
and
you
know
the
feeling
is
to
really
get
to
a
point
where
it's
just
the
price.
Doing
that
you
know
you're,
doubling
or
tripling
the
price
of
what
the
gas
would
actually
be.
So
I
there
are
I,
think
other
means
of
going
about
this
beside
the
price
and
there's
you
know
a
lot
of
its
education,
whatnot
and,
as
I
said,
we
will
be
reporting
back.
E
Gas
usage
by
three
hundred
and
seventy
six
thousand
plus
cubic
meters
right
and
that
just
rolls
into
the
same
problem
would
take
it
that
use
goes
down.
Revenues
go
down
have
to
find
the
price,
so
the
bottom
line,
though
these
question
is:
where
does
the
customer
come
out
ahead
on
this
or
not?
And
is
it
just
a
price
of
fighting
climate
change
and
I'm?
Not
sure
you
have
an
answer
that
so
if
the
answer
is
same
as
before,
that's
fine,
but
the
way
I
find
these
things
is
just
about
the
time
we're
ready
to
report.
D
We
have
to
answer
those
questions,
someone
and
that's
a
fair
question
to
ask
I
I
think
the
answer
to
your
question
is
the
customers
who
are
willing
to
take
advantage
of
the
coaching
support,
free
energy
and
water
efficiency
walkthroughs,
where
we
can
potentially
even
stack
electricity,
water
and
gas
incentives
together
and
offer
real
help
to
businesses
that
need
to
remain
competitive
and
I?
Have
you
know
they
employ
people
in
our
town
and
and
and
energy
is
one
of
their
costs,
those
customers
who
are
willing
to
take
advantage
of
the
incentives.
D
Yes,
they
will
benefit
the
customers
that
are
that
we
are
trying
to
help
the
customers
who
are
able
to
do
large-scale,
cost-effective
gas
mitigation
measures
are
going
to
get
some
support
and-
and
that
will
come
at
now
in
this
case
again,
the
money
for
the
pilot
program
has
previously
budgeted
we're
asking
for.
Certainly
the
policy
support
to
get
the
incentives
out
the
door,
but
that
group
of
customers
will
benefit
that
take
advantage
of
the
incentives
and
that's
similar
to
the
water
and
the
electricity
customers
that
benefit
right
now.
D
Those
customers
that
can
serve
in
the
case
of
water
and
electricity.
They
are
helping
us
buy
space
on
our
systems
so
that
we
can
handle
growth
without
building
more
stuff,
and
that
is
that's
essentially
the
service
that
other
customers
are
buying
from
the
businesses
or
customers
that
are
willing
to
conserve.
E
D
There
are
proposals
that
have
been
bandied
about
by
the
the
federal
government
and
the
provincial
government
to
introduce
various
home
energy.
Retrofit
programs
and
I
think
it's
in
the
best
interest
of
the
utility
and
our
customer
to
wait
until
we
see
what
those
are
going
to
look
like
before
putting
investment
into
a
home
energy
retrofit
program
out
of
our
own
limited
gas
conservation
budget.
D
E
See
conservation
in
other
areas
would
possibly
more
be
like
insulating
buildings
might
be
of
more
cost
effective
to
people
than
actually
trying
to
deal
with
gas
consumption,
but
cut
your
consumption
by
conserving
and
other
conservation
measures.
In
other
ways,
sudden
I
presume
a
new
nod
that
makes
sense.
Okay,
so
I
can
see
that
right
we
were
going
so
that's
fine.
I've
got
one
last
technical
question
when
you
say
the
city
gate
gas.
D
Gate
is
the
name
that
we
use
to
refer
to
our
connection
to
the
TransCanada
pipeline
system.
It's
the
facility
through
which
we
take
gas
from
from
that
system
and
distribute
it
to
our
customers.
So
the
meter
at
city
gate
shows
us
how
much
gas
all
of
our
customers
use
that
you
know
that
day
that
month,
that
that's
what
city
gate
is
thank.
D
A
A
C
B
No
but
I
will
say
the
way
we
manage
the
portfolio
in
Kingston
significantly
reduces
the
volatility
in
natural
gas.
So
the
one
of
the
things
that
the
UK
City
of
Kingston
customers-
they
don't
necessarily
see
the
high
prices
or
the
low
prices
for
the
way
that
we
we
buy
our
gas
and
that's
something
that
we
brought
forward
to
Council
as
a
policy
decision
quite
some
time
ago.
So
that
takes
the
volatility
or
the
natural
gas.
B
As
far
as
the
volatility
of
natural
gas
compared
to
oil,
that's
something
I
wouldn't
want
to
necessarily
answer
what
else
top
ahead.
We
could,
you
know
down
the
road,
provide
an
information
report
or
a
council
update
in
that
regard,
say
I,
don't
have
an
issue
with
that,
but
I'm
afraid
I
might
guess
the
wrong
answer.
It's
night,
not.
C
A
So
we
have
a
recommendation
here
on
our
agenda
that
utilities
Kingston
introduced
a
pilot
conservation
incentive
program
to
commercial
natural
gas
distribution.
Customers
can
I,
get
a
mover
councillor,
Neill
and
councillor
Camden
any
debate
or
discussion
all
those
in
favor
that
carries
thank
you,
utilities,
Kingston.
Moving
on
to
item
b1.
We
have
a
I
guess
it's
a
briefing
from
Miss
Heather,
what
Roberts
manager
solid
waste
operations?
She's
gonna
speak
to
the
committee
regarding
regarding
report,
number
II,
ITP
16,
a
zero
zero
for
proposed
bill,
151
waste
free,
Ontario,
Act.
F
B
If,
if
I
could
just
make
a
couple
of
opening
comments
to
the
committee
before
Miss
Roberts
starts
your
presentation
it
may
it
may
help
with
some
of
the
questions
that
you
have
after
her
presentation.
So
first
off
I
want
to
commend
mr.
Roberts
for
the
amount
of
effort
and
work
that
she
has
put
into
not
just
a
presentation
tonight,
but
in
the
legwork
in
understanding
the
changes
that
the
province
is
proposing
in
regards
to
solid
waste
and
specifically
recycling
that
we're
talking
about
this
evening.
B
So
the
changes
that
the
province
is
making
and
and
Heather's
going
to
talk
about
them
in
detail
is
quite
significant.
The
the
provincial
process
is
not
finalized
at
this
point
and
and
I
think
anybody
sitting
around
the
horseshoe
tonight
who
has
been
involved
in
major
changes
to
policy
at
the
provincial
level,
realizes
that
there
are
quite
a
number
of
steps
in
that
regard.
So
we're
here
tonight
to
inform
committee
and
Council
in
regards
to
where
the
changes
are
to
this
point.
B
That's
that's
still
up
in
the
air
and
you
know
wait
a
little
bit
wait.
Do
we
know
the
answers
and
come
forward
with
what,
where
this
is
going
or
do
we
give
committee
and
council
a
bit
of
a
heads
up
as
we
was
we
head
into
it,
so
you
can
be
prepared
and
that's
what
we're
here
for
this
evening.
So
just
just
a
bit
of
a
preamble
that
probably
you're
gonna
have
questions
that
we
can't
answer
in
it
by
no
means
it's
not
because
Heather
hasn't
done
their
homework.
B
G
I'm,
just
gonna,
okay,
so
good
evening,
a
ITP
committee,
members,
staff
and
members
of
the
public
tonight's
presentation
is
supplemental
to
the
staff
report.
That's
on
the
agenda
under
the
same
name.
The
report
is
quite
robust
and
what
I
mean
by
that?
It's
a
nice
way
to
say
that
it's
very
long,
but
it
does
provide
the
current
way
situation
in
Kingston,
as
well
as
provide
a
good
summary
of
what
is
happening
with
the
waste-free
Ontario
Act.
G
Ontario
regulation
101
is
the
stage
that
is
sets
the
stage
with
the
diversion
programs
at
the
City
of
Kingston
must
operate
and
the
waste
diversion
Act
is
the
existing
controls.
The
standards
for
the
development
of
the
waste
diversion
programs
that
we
currently
have
today
and
the
waste
diversion
Ontario
is
the
current
oversight
body
that
oversees
the
industry
funding
organizations
that
collect
fees
from
the
producers
and
they
redistribute
those
to
the
municipalities
to
cover
the
cost
or
partial
cost
of
those
diversion
programs.
G
G
There
are
two
acts
and
a
strategy
that
are
being
proposed:
the
resource,
recovery
and
circular
economy
Act
identifies
the
provincial
interest
in
resource
recovery
and
waste
reduction,
and
it
establishes
an
out
an
outcomes-based
regime
that
would
require
producers
to
take
full
responsibility
of
designated
products
and
packaging.
It
also
is
for
the
creation
of
the
resource,
productivity
and
Recovery
Authority.
The
waste
transition.
Act
is
an
important
piece
of
the
puzzle
because
it
will
be
a
temporary
act
that
is
used
while
we
transition
from
the
current
waste
landscape
to
the
new
regime.
G
Now
that
we've
reviewed
the
acts
and
strategy
briefly,
what
does
it
all
mean
for
Kingston?
Here?
Are
some
of
the
potential
impacts,
or
rather
the
unknowns.
The
legislation
right
now
is
only
a
framework,
and
we
know
that
the
majority
of
the
details
are
going
to
come
in
future
times
for
future
regulations.
The
accent
strategy
don't
prescribe
a
specific
municipal
role.
Rather,
we
will
be
considered
as
service
providers.
It's
unclear
how
Kingston
could
be
compensated
for
stranded
assets.
G
G
The
next
portion
of
the
presentation
is
going
to
highlight
the
key
policy
changes
in
the
acts
and
then,
after
each
slide,
a
will
provide
some
potential
implications
for
Kingston
provincial
interests
in
policy
statement.
This
policy
changes
with
regards
to
provincial
interest
in
policy
statements.
The
province
has
not
yet
issued
any
policy
statements,
but
if
the
act
is
passed,
they
do
intend
to
do
that
within
the
first
year
to
highlight
a
few
of
the
provincial
interests.
G
Some
potential
implications,
Kingston
may
be
required
to
implement
and
enforce
disposal
bans
and
we
meet.
We
will
need
to
ensure
that
our
official
plan
is
consistent
with
the
provinces
policy
statements,
as
well
as
those
provincial
interests
already
listed
in
the
Act
producer
responsibility
regime.
This
is
a
shift
from
partial
producer
responsibility
to
a
proposed
full
producer
responsibility
regime
and
it
will
have
a
financial
impact
Kingston.
The
Act
establishes
a
new
outcomes
based
approach
for
producers
with
designated
products
and
packaging
and
provides
them
with
the
flexibility
to
determine
how
they
will
reach
those
goals.
G
Potential
implications
producers
have
designated
materials
will
be
allowed
the
flexibility
to
design
the
operations
of
their
diversion
programs.
They
may
choose
to
utilize
the
city's
existing
collection
and
processing
infrastructure,
but
they
will
not
be
required
to
do
so.
The
city
would
benefit
financially,
as
it
is
assumed
that
the
costs
right
now
with
the
diversion
programs
would
be
shifted
to
their
producers.
The
city's
mark
may
play
an
increased
role
in
the
province,
but
that
will
be
at
the
decision
of
the
producers.
G
There
could
be
fragmentation
to
the
city's
current
integrated
waste
management
system,
the
resource
productivity
and
recovery
authority
under
the
Act.
It
proposes
to
create
a
new
oversight
body
that
would
be
responsible
for
overseeing
the
transition
period
of
where
we
currently
are
with
waste.
The
new
regime
that's
being
proposed,
they
will
collect
data
and
they
will
have
enhanced
powers
potential
implications,
although
the
act
as
it
stands
right
now
does
provide
power
for
the
authority
to
determine
financial
compensation.
G
It
still
doesn't
provide
a
clear
view
of
what
would
happen
or
how
we
might
be
compensated
if
the
producers
don't
reach
their
targets
set
by
the
province.
What
that
means
is
how
could
we
maybe
be
financially
compensated
for
any
of
those
materials
that
continue
to
end
up
in
black
garbage
bags
that
we
will
still
have
responsibility
to
manage
the
waste
diversion
transition?
Act
is
a
temporary
piece
of
legislation
that
will
be
repealed
after
Ontario
transitions
to
the
new
regime.
G
This
is
an
important
piece
of
the
puzzle,
because
Ontario
and
all
stakeholders
involved
need
to
ensure
a
consistent
flow
of
service
to
the
public.
While
we
move
into
the
new
act
and
the
new
operations
take
over
potential
implications,
the
city
has
two
projects
in
queue
currently
which
rely
heavily
on
decisions
of
this
new
waste
legislation,
the
first
being
the
regional
murph
study,
which
will
be
brought
back
to
committee
after
the
waste
free
Ontario
act
is
either
passed
or
denied,
and
the
second
is
alternative
residual
technologies.
A
report
regarding
this
matter
is
on
the
agenda
tonight.
G
What's
next,
we're
gonna
continue
to
monitor
the
progress
of
the
waste
free
Ontario
Act
at
the
Social
Policy
Committee
will
participate
in
any
consultations
that
come
up
with
parties
as
requested
and
will
also
provide
status
or
updates
or
recommendations
to
this
committee
or
to
Council
as
needed
questions
or
comments.
Thank
you.
Thank.
E
E
Council
anyways,
so
the
which
I
think
is
really
a
great
step
forward.
If,
in
fact,
as
you
said,
they
are
going
to
be
held
accountable
for
all
the
costs
right.
Otherwise,
we're
gonna
be
end
up
picking
up
the
pieces
at
the
end,
but
they
haven't
done
what
they
have
been
charged
to
do
and
there's
no
way
you're
nodding.
E
So
we're
gonna
have
to
continue
to
work
on
that
which
I
presume
cuz
I'll
be
honest.
First
thing:
I
thought
of
was
clear
bags:
okay,
because
people
putting
this
stuff
in
and
then
will
be
responsible
for
it
and
no
one
will
be
paying
us
for
it,
which
doesn't
sound.
Well,
doesn't
sound
like
the
way
it's
saying
it's
going
to
work.
Is
there
any
of
that
wrong?
So.
G
G
We've
also
voiced
our
opinion
through
organizations
like
the
association
of
municipalities
of
Ontario
municipal
waste
association
and
the
regional
Public
Works
commissioners
of
Ontario,
so
we've
already
recognised
some
of
those
things
and
one
of
the
the
points
are
one
of
the
implications
that
I
added
into
my
presentation
was.
We
may
be
required
to
enforce
disposal
bans.
G
So
one
of
the
policy
statements
just
for
an
example
and
I
don't
want
to
speculate,
but
the
province
could
come
up
with
a
policy
statement
or
a
target
that,
for
example,
85%
of
the
aluminium
food
and
beverage
containers
have
to
be
recovered,
and
that
would
be
the
producers,
responsibility
and
I'm
just
using
that
as
an
example
and
the
producers
would
have
to
decide
because
they
are
now
given
full
responsibility,
how
they're
going
to
meet
that
target.
And
so,
if
they're,
not
meeting
the
target
and
the
province
says
well,
you
need
to
do
more.
G
And
if
the
producers
come
back
to
us
and
say
well,
you
know
Kingston
continues
to
allow
black
garbage
bags.
Let's
just
say
the
province
may
make
us
and
we
will
have
to
be
consistent
as
well
with
those
policy
statements
that
come
out,
and
that
might
be
something
that
we
end
up
having
to
do,
because
we,
we
will
still
be
a
stakeholder
in
all
of
this,
even
if
it
shifts
to
full
producer
responsibility,
ultimately
we're
still
a
stakeholder,
because
we
will
still
be
managing
the
garbage
string
right.
So
this
is
this.
E
In
context
what
you
said,
we're
gonna
be
still
responsible
for
the
waste
stream,
but
it
also
said
I
believe
what
you
indicated
there
is
that
we
wouldn't
necessarily
be
used
by
the
producers
for
that
purpose.
That
I
was
trying
to
read
it
as
you're
talking
taste
and
it's
not
criticism
I
just
trying
to
get
straight,
but
in
my
own
head,
what's
what's
going
on,
I
read
the
thing,
but
nevertheless,
so
is
that
is
that
correct?
Maybe
I'm
not
being
clear
enough
B,
okay!
E
F
G
Can
clarify
that,
so
what
I
meant
by
they
wouldn't
be
obligated
to
use
our
current
collection
or
processing
systems
would
be,
for
example,
for
the
blue
box
program
or
the
recycling
program
or
the
municipal
hazardous
waste
program.
We
would
still
be
fully
responsible
for
our
waste
stream,
so
the
black
garbage
bags
that
we
see
on
our
curb
sites
would
still
be
our
responsibility
to
manage
the
implication
that
I
see
with.
That
is
that
if
the
producers
are
fully
responsible
and
have
to
meet
targets,
why
should
meanness
apologies?
G
If
producers
are
supposed
to
do
everything
they
can
to
meet
their
targets
and
be
getting
the
designated
products
and
packaging?
Why
would
Kingston
have
to
pay
for
those
materials
that
do
end
up
in
black
garbage
bags?
How
would
we
be
financially
reimbursed
if
they
are
not
doing
everything
that
they
need
to
do
to
get
those
out
of
the
black
garbage
bags,
because
we
would
still
be
responsible
for
the
cost
of
collecting
them
and
the
cost
of
transferring
them
into
and.
E
The
pressure
would
be
on
us
to
go
back
to
the
customer
to
the
residents
or
the
business
to
say,
hey.
We
just
found
this
computer
monitor
in
your
black
garbage
bag
or
clear
if
we'd
switch
to
that,
and
that
would
mean
that
we'd
be
finding
them
or
something
like
that,
and
then
we
would
have
the
enforcement
issues
that
you
were
talking
about
before
they
they
might
be
Provincial
Offences.
Even
but
we
don't
know
any
of
that
right.
So.
G
We
don't
know
any
of
that,
but
we
do
know
that
currently
it's
waste
diversion
Ontario
who
is
operating
these
diversion
programs
and
works
with
those
industry
funding
organizations
and
what
they
are
suggesting
is
that
there
will
no
longer
be
a
waste
diversion
Ontario.
They
will
have
a
new
authority
group,
the
resource
productivity
and
Recovery
Authority,
and
they
will
be
granted
additional
powers
by
the
province
for
compliance.
G
So
it
is
suggested
that
they
will
have
enforcement
tools
that
they
can
use
or
that
we
may
be
able
to
go
to
them
and
say
our
costs
are
still
very
high
for
disposing
of
these
items
and
we
don't
feel
that
the
producers
are
managing
the
present
that
the
program
effectively
to
meet
their
targets.
But
the
producers
are
going
to
have
to
display
and
provide
data
to
this
authority
to
clearly
demonstrate
their
compliance
with
the
Act,
their
compliance
with
policy
statements
and
provincial
interests.
H
Thank
You
mr.
chair.
This
is
beginning
to
remind
me
of
the
AODA
regulations
that
are
coming
in
in
2017,
where
we're
all
sort
of
still
trying
to
figure
out
what
the
province
is
going
to
expect
for
real.
So
my
first
question
is:
I
presume
that
the
way
you
have
to
handle
it
is
business
as
usual
until
the
province
actually
starts
to
well
pass
the
bill
and
bring
in
some
rules
that
be
fair.
That's.
G
Correct
business
as
usual
until
we're
told
otherwise
until
the
act
has
passed
and
even
then
I
talked
briefly
about
the
waste
diversion
transition
Act,
which
is
a
tool
that
they
are
going
to
use.
It's
it's
a
temporary
act
that
they
will
use
to
get
us
through
that
transition
period.
They
know
that
we're
not
just
gonna
be
able
to
snap
our
fingers
and
the
new
regime
is
going
to
happen.
G
They
recognize
it's
going
to
take
several
years
and
in
the
report,
there's
a
timeline
that
I
took
right
from
some
Ministry
of
the
Environment
and
climate
change,
presentation
that
they
provided
to
stakeholders,
and
we
know
it's
going
to
take
five
years
and
beyond.
So
if
the
Act
is
passed,
it's
still
going
to
take
us
five
years
to
likely
get
to
the
end
of
that
transition
period.
So
we
will
continue
to
get
information
and
consults.
G
There
will
be
new
regulations
that
come
out
and
that's
really
those
are
the
unknown
pieces
of
the
puzzle
at
this
time,
but
as
Jim
suggested,
we
didn't
want
to
wait
and
come
back
when
the
act
has
passed.
We
want
it.
We
want
to
be
proactive
and
come
and
say
here's
a
summary
of
what
is
happening
with
the
provincial
waste
legislation.
H
G
Great
example
is
right
here:
in
Canada,
British
Columbia
actually
started
a
program
with
full
producer
responsibilities,
probably
about
a
year
and
a
half
to
two
years
ago,
and
it
is
operating
well.
There
are
still
some
monopolies
happening
out
there.
So,
as
Ontario
was
coming
up
with
this
waste
legislation,
they
were
looking
at
how
BC
managed
to
to
get
their
programs
together,
Ontario's
a
little
bit
different
where
the
one
province
that
started
recycling
many
many
years
ago.
We
were
the
the
pioneer,
and
so
we
have
a
very
mature
program.
H
Thank
you.
My
last
question
has
to
do
with
stranded
assets
and
I
presume
that
that's
our
recycling
center.
That's
the
sort
of
thing
that
if
a
company
doesn't
want
to
use
it,
we've
got
something
large
there
now
I
would
imagine
BC.
Well,
they
didn't
have
the
recycling
center
before
it.
It
wouldn't
have
been
on
a
stranded
asset,
but
I
presume
that's
the
kind
of
thing
all
over
the
province.
That
is
very
serious,
actually
yeah.
C
C
G
There
isn't
mention
of
it
in
the
act.
It
doesn't
specifically
clarify
a
return
for
deposit
program,
but
what
it
does
specify
is
that
producers
are
going
to
have
a
lot
of
flexibility,
they're
going
to
set
targets
and
producers
need
to
meet
these
these
targets,
and
so
I
I
wouldn't
say
it's
not
on
the
table.
I
think
the
producers
will
do
just
about
anything
that
they
have
to
do
to
be
capturing
those
designated
materials,
products
and
packaging
that
they
will
be
designated
as
responsible
for
a
responsible
person.
C
I
think
that
would
be
really
really
positive
a
lot
of
times
when
you
buy
imported
pop
cans
or
bottles
you'll
see
in
these
states
five
cent
deposit
in
these
states
or
provinces.
Ten
cent,
deposit
and
I
think
it
takes
a
lot
out
of
and
and
it
gives
people
incentive
the
Queens
area.
You
see
lots
of
red
cups,
but
you
never
see
any
bottles
left
behind
after
porch
parties
and
such
because
there
are
people.
You
have
another
question.
Yes,.
A
F
C
So
so
that
would
be
good
I.
It's
my
understanding,
and
you
can
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong.
That
and-
and
this
is
something
I
think
we
need
a
consideration
of.
How
will
this
impact
our
diversion
targets
of
sixty
percent
and
so
on?
I
know
we
were
impacted,
for
instance,
when
liquor
bottles
and
imported
beer
cans
could
be
deposited
at
the
at
the
Brewers
retail.
C
G
So
much
like
how
the
Brewers,
retail
and
the
LCBO
started
the
return
for
deposits
every
year
when
we
do
our
data
call
in
the
springtime
which
we're
preparing
right
now,
which
is
the
reporting
tool
that
we
use
to
receive
that
50%
funding
that
we
get
for
the
blue
box
program.
I
would
a
so
when
we
do
that.
The
the
glass
and
the
the
bottles
that
are
recovered
from
Brewers
retail
are
later
included
in
those
numbers.
G
G
A
E
So
it's
on
page
7
of
23,
that's
where
the
statement
is,
and
it's
talking
about,
basically
in
the
context
of
the
stagnation
in
diversion
rates
and
so
I'm.
Just
trying
to
somebody
asked
me:
I
want
to
be
able
to
say
we
got
to
do
this,
because
what
we're
doing
now
wasn't
working
and
wasn't
working
well
enough
and
there
are
efficiencies
and
climate
change
aspects.
You
see
where
I'm
coming
from
so
I'm.
Trying
to
get
this
straight.
Go
ahead.
G
So
that
15%,
it's
the
existing
waste
diversion
programs
that
are
established
under
the
waste
diversion
Act
right
now
only
covers
15
percent
by
weight
of
all
of
the
diversion
programs
that
are
or
all
of
the
designated
materials
in
those
diversion
programs.
So
what
it's
saying
is
that
only
15%
of
the
waste
that
is
generated
in
the
province
is
really
captured
under
these
diversion
programs,
and
it
includes.
G
It
would
include
all
of
the
weight
of
materials,
so
it's
not
it's
not
just
for
municipalities,
we're
just
saying
that
all
of
Ontario's
wastes,
which
would
include
garbage
recycling
any
of
these
items
that
are
currently
designated
with
the
diversion
program
under
the
waste
diversion
Act
only
15%.
It
only
includes
15
percent
of
the
total
waste
generated
in
the
province,
which
means
we
need
new
and
more
waste
diversion
programs
right.
E
E
E
Okay,
so
it
really
comes
down
to
the
I,
see
I
sector,
which
is
only
twelve
percent
in
ways
way
more
than
obviously
the
balance
of
the
stuff
that
we're
trying
to
capture
normally
by
a
considerable
margin.
Otherwise,
you
couldn't
get
those
numbers.
Okay,
I
just
wanted
to
be
clear
about
that,
and
so
thanks.
A
Okay,
thank
you.
Miss
Roberts,
mister
Keach,
we're
going
to
move
on
to
item
b2
the
report
I
as
this
is
my
first
actual
meeting
I've
chaired
the
public,
doesn't
speak
to
briefings,
but
they
can
speak
to
the
item.
So
if
there
aren't
any
I
assume
there
are
no
questions
about
the
item
itself
or
the
motion
here
from
the
committee.
So
if
the
public
would
like
to
speak
to
the
item,
mr.
Dixon
would
like
to
speak.
A
A
E
B
Thank
You
mr.
chair
I
will
try
and
respond
fairly
briefly
to
mr.
Dixon's
comments
and
then,
if
he
wants
to
follow
up
with
what
staff
we're
happy
to
do
that
afterwards,
the
first
one
in
regards
to
parks
facilities,
what
not
very
good,
very
good
point
and
if
I
roll
so
at
UK,
the
new
building
that
we
just
put
up
and
a
comment
I
think
in
regards
to
UK
as
well.
That's
one
area
that
we
have
concentrated
on
very
much
I
know
my
staff
has
worked
with
Heather
and
how
we
can
do
that
better.
B
So
as
an
example,
the
parks
I
think
is
an
area
and
other
facilities
that
we
can
improve
on.
We
are
aware
of
that
and
it's
something
that
we
we
take
into
consideration
constantly.
So
I
appreciate
the
comment
and
I
think
it's
an
area
that
we
can
continue
to
do
better
in
and
where
we
are
aware
of
it.
The
restaurants,
the
ketchup
bottles,
Betsy,
I,
see
I
sector,
it's
very
difficult
for
us
to
kind
of
really
get
into
that
and,
as
was
pointed
out
in
the
in
the
presentation,
unfortunately,
I
think
that's,
no!
B
That's
an
area
that
we
would
like
to
see
the
province
maybe
be
a
little
bit
more
aggressive
in
in
trying
to
make
make
that
happen.
The
yes
sustainable
city
comment
working
with
other
municipalities,
yes,
something
that
we
we
do
currently
it's
something
that
Heather
talked
a
little
bit
about
in
her
presentation,
she's,
very,
very,
very
involved
in
a
number
of
the
industry,
association,
municipalities
and
looking
at
ways
that
we
can
do
this
better
and
the
enforcement
one
which
I
think
was
sort
of
the
last
two
questions.
Again,
that's
that's
at
the
provincial
level.
B
A
H
I
do
have
one
more
question
about
stranded
assets
when,
as
an
organization
we're
under
a
confusing
time,
and
normally
you
would
like
to
be
able
to
plan
upgrades
to
any
facility,
but
we
are
now
in
a
bit
of
limbo.
I
I'm
quite
sure
the
province
is
aware
of
that,
but
is
that
something
that
is
discussed?
H
G
We
also
know
that
if
that
transition
period
lasts
over
five
years,
it's
important
to
note
that,
even
during
that
five
year
transition
period,
our
blue
box
program
funding
will
remain
at
50%
or
above
so.
The
minister
in
the
in
the
legislation
and
the
draft
legislation
that's
being
proposed-
has
given
himself
powers
to
even
increase
that
funding.
So
even
during
that
transition
period,
once
the
Act
is
passed
or
denied.
H
A
C
You
I'm
talking
about
stranded
assets,
I
guess
when
will
we
start
to
get
some
greater
clarity
on
where
the
province
is
going
because
I
know
that
we're
probably
in
the
need
for
in
the
next
couple
of
years,
recycling
new
recycling
trucks
I,
know
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
but
our
contract
with
our
with
our
outside
and
for
Kingston
East
Kingston
West?
Does
that
go
to
2020
20
yeah?
So
do
we
have
any
kind
of
an
out
clause
if
the
province
fast-tracks
this
and
it
alters
the
way
that
we
need
to
gather
recyclables
in
particular,
Miss.
A
G
C
Thank
you
and
I
want
to
thank
Frank
for
jogging
my
memory
about
the
idea
of
having
more
extensive
recycling
and
garbage
collection
at
advance.
I
know
that
often
I
end
up
because
I
walk
through
Memorial
Center,
with
my
dog
to
the
dog
park
every
day.
If
there's
a
weekend
event
I
often
have
to
send
Public
Works
a
little
nudge
email,
because
the
garbage
bins
are
overflowing.
There
are
no
recycle
bins,
except
inside
the
Memorial
Center,
and
so
the
result
again
is.
C
If
there's
a
weekend
particularly
weekend
events,
then
what
gets
put
it
into
the
overflowing
garbage
are
a
lot
of
recyclable
materials.
So
I
know
my
oldest
son
is
triathlete.
My
youngest
son
is
a
is,
is
does
marathons,
they
don't
get
that
for
me,
but
the
reality
is
that
when
I
go
to
those
events
in
other
cities,
there's
extensive
recycling,
bins
that
are
event
bins,
that
they
roll
it
in
for
the
event
and
they
take
out
immediately
after
the
event
and
I'm
sure
that's
factored
into
whatever
the
site.
Rentals
are
that
the
municipalities
charge.
C
Those
events
and
I
think
that
that
would
be
a
really
good
model
for
us
to
adopt
if
we
could
and
that
would
go
along
if
that
is
counted
as
residential
I
guess,
that
would
go
a
ways
towards
our
diversion
rate.
So
my
other
question
is,
with
those
event
recycles
be
considered.
Residential,
not
I,
see
I.
G
It's
a
really
fine
line.
If
you
ask
the
producers
of
the
program
right
now,
they
would
tell
you
that
it's
ic9,
so
that
they
don't
have
to
pay
for
the
cost
of
managing,
not
recycling
and
right
now
for
any
events,
and
that
are
in
Kingston
in
any
group
that
requests
recycling
bins
from
us.
We
do
provide
it
and
when
it
comes
to
the
king
scenario,
recycling
center,
we
put
it
in
the
scale
and
it's
counted
as
as
residential.
It's
a
very
small
portion.
Thank.
C
B
E
Betty
has
another
question,
though:
okay
no
I
just
want
just
looking
at
I'm
sure,
even
your
description
indicated
that
it's
sort
of
fraught
there's
there's
issues
where
we
could
get
really
skewered
here
in
in
the
gaps
and
the
grain
areas,
and
one
of
them
was.
You
were
saying
that
we
would
continue
to
get
paid
the
50%
for
the
blue
box
program,
but
it
seems
to
me
that
in
the
report
you
indicated
the
municipalities
that
never
got
that
honey
all
of
that
money.
G
Waste
diversion
Act
prescribes
that
producers
of
designated
products
and
packaging
in
the
current
legislation
are
responsible
to
provide
50%
of
the
blue
box.
Funding
back
to
municipalities,
that
includes
collection,
processing,
maintenance
activities
fleet.
You
know
everything
to
operate
those
programs,
but
what
we
have
found
since
the
original
Act
was
enacted
in
2002,
is
that
municipalities
have
never
really
been
compensated,
that
full
50
percent.
The
producers
have
managed
to.
G
Get
out
of
part
of
their
obligation,
and
so
in
the
report.
I
also
provide
details
on
the
recent
arbitration
that
happened
between
Ontario
municipalities
and
stewardship
Ontario,
where
so,
stewardship
Ontario.
Is
the
industry
funding
organization
responsible
for
collecting
the
fees
from
the
producers
and
distributing
those
to
municipalities
and
part
of
the
reason
is
they?
G
You
know
they
do
see
some
inefficiencies
in
municipal
programs
and
they
put
a
cap
basically
on
what
they
are
going
to
pay
out
to
me,
a
pallet
ease,
even
though
our
costs
are
rising,
and
so
that
comment
about
the
50%
funding
in
the
report
that
says
that
we've
never
actually
received
it.
We've
we've
really
had
to
stay
on
top
of
continuing
to
get
that
funding.
G
But
my
other
comment
about
during
the
transition
period
we
would
get
50%
is
that
even
during
that
transition
period,
if
we
wanted
to
proceed
with
with
upgrades
to
our
recycling
program,
it
would
still
be
funded
about
50%
or
more
depending.
If
the
minister
decides
to
during
the
transition
period
say
that
the
producers
have
to
pay
more
money
to
us.
E
E
E
About
how
much
producers-
and
this
is
connected,
the
previous
question-
producers-
must
be
provided
much
greater
say
we're
saying
this:
the
city
acknowledges
that
we've
increasing
producer
responsibility,
there
must
greater
say
and
that
produce
about
how
their
products
and
packages
are
managed
in
many
cases,
so
I
started
reading
the
rest
of
it.
Looking
for
the
tape
back
on
that
statement,
because
I.
E
Personally
would
be
very
reluctant
to
give
them
too
much
say
for
just
the
reason
you
just
gave
that
they
put
a
cap
on
sure
that
is
not
allowed
on
under
legislation.
There
shouldn't
be
well
I'm
Amish,
they
paid
they're
going
to
be
looking
for
ways
any
number
of
them
to
get
out
from
under
the
responsibilities
under
this,
so
I
think
municipalities
should
take
the
position.
E
The
quid
pro
quo
is
then,
will
tell
you
what
would
think
the
producer
should
be
doing
because
there's
going
to
be
a
gap
there
is
that
sort
of
the
thinking,
you're
just
being
sort
of
positive
and
circumspect
in
a
positive
way
and
you're,
well
aware
the
gaps
and
problems
that
might
occur
in
this
transition
Zac.
Would
that
be
correct?.
G
It
is,
it
is
correct
and
we
are
trying
to
be
positive
collectively
as
municipalities,
because
we've
been
complaining
for
a
number
a
number
of
years
that
the
program
is
not
set
up
properly,
so
the
province
recognising
the
flaws
of
the
current
set
up
of
the
waste
diversion
Act
and
waste
diversion
Ontario.
It
is
saying
these
acts
are
going
to
be
completely
terminated
and
this
new
Act,
the
resource,
recovery
and
circular
economy
Act
is
going
to
be,
is
going
to
be
the
new
Act.
G
Municipalities
feel
that
if
they
are
going
to
be
fully
responsible
for
the
costs
and
fully
responsible
for
managing
these
programs,
then
they
have
to
be
given
that
flexibility,
because
one
of
the
flaws
right
now
is
that
they're
not
given
flexibility.
So
that's
why
we
we
come
into
this
conflict
between
municipalities
and
those
producers,
because
they're
saying
well,
you're
telling
us
we
have
to
pay
50
percent,
but
we
have
absolutely
no
say
in
what
is
happening.
So
I
agree
with
you
that
we
need
more
details
and
we
need
to
be
cautious.
G
E
E
A
Thank
you.
Any
additional
debate
comments
to
make
before
we
call
the
question.
I
just
also
wanted
to
thank
mr.
Roberts
for
this
report.
It
is
a
very
detailed
report
on
a
very
unclear
subject
and
we
appreciate
having
that
information
up
front,
because
I
think
this
is
gonna
be
a
messy
discussion,
as
it
goes
forward
over
the
next
many
years.
A
A
C
Quickly,
I'm
very
happy
to
see
that
we're
going
to
have
an
education
component,
we're
gonna,
let
I
assume
that
the
most
frequent
colored
styrofoam
comes
from
butcher
shops
and
and
meat
shops,
fish
fish
shops,
those
kind
of
things
so
we'll
be
informing
them.
Will
there
be
a
phase-in
so
they
can
get
rid
of
any
stock
that
they
now
have
or
will?
Will
this
be
happening
immediately?.
G
We
are
providing
a
grace
period,
so
we
will
be
collecting
colored
meat
trays
or
other
dyed
styrofoam
in
the
blue
box
until
May
6th.
So
we'll
go
ahead
with
a
communication
program
and
then,
as
of
that
date,
we'll
be
leaving
it
behind
in
the
blue
box,
so
they
could
have
some
available
stock.
That's
something
that
we!
We
don't
have
that
information
and.
C
C
The
correct
answer,
thank
you
very
much,
and
this
came
out
of
our
conversation
the
other
day
as
well.
Can
we
impress
upon
because
of
the
education
period,
can
we
impress
upon
our
drivers
to
leave
a
card
if
there's
color
desire
from,
and
only
leave
the
colored
styrofoam
in
the
blue
boxes
and
take
any
of
the
correct
things
so
that
people
can
recognize
and
be
taught
what?
What
was
wrong
with
it?
Yes,.
G
A
A
I
actually
have
one
quick
question
you
your
first
question
was
about
the
the
producers
who
were
distributing
these,
but
it's
it
is
our
residents
who
will
ultimately
have
to
carry
the
burden
of
getting
rid
of
it
if,
if
they,
if
they
don't
collect
it
at
the
curbside,
so
there's
no
we're
being
polite
by
asking
the
butcher
the
butcher's
to
use
white
always
polystyrene,
but
there
have
no
obligation.
We
have
no
enforcement
to
require
them
to
change
or
do
so
is
that
correct?
That's.
G
A
B
So,
as
you
can
probably
guess,
there
may
be
more
things
like
this
that
come
forward
and-
and
you
know
really
with
where
the
province
is
and
kind
of
where
we're
at
our
recommendation
is
that
we
we
do
as
a
report
says
and
kind
of
put
this
in
a
bands
for
the
time
being
and
I
guess.
My
reason
for
speaking
is
we
may
be
back
with
other
things
that
we're
doing
that
with
similarly
between
now
and
when
legislation
actually
takes
place.
A
A
I
Yes,
just
maybe
a
very
quick
preface
to
to
the
committee
considering
their
report
the
terms
of
reference
in
front
of
them
this
evening,
I
guess
first
off
I'd
like
to
to
acknowledge
and
thank
the
informal
discussions
that
we
had
with
a
few
of
the
individuals
identified
in
the
report
that
represented
the
Kingston
Coalition
for
active
transportation,
Queens,
University
and
also
public
health,
I.
Think
those
informal
discussions
were
we're
very
helpful
for
us.
I
see
mr.
Heelis
here
on
the
ground
with
us
this
evening.
I
I'm
hopeful
that
what
we
have
here
is
the
terms
of
reference
really
reflects
the
fact
that
we
want
to
have
a
community
driven
plan
here.
I
think
we
put
a
fair
degree
of
emphasis
in
terms
of
the
public
consultation
that
we
want
to
see
occur
in
terms
of
helping
to
develop
this
active
transportation
plan
and
I.
I
A
H
Thank
You
mr.
chair,
just
our
Vice
Chair.
Yes,
in
terms
of
bicycle
paths
and
I,
don't
there
isn't
really
a
direction
hearing,
but
the
whole
idea
of
the
off
road
bicycle
paths
such
as
is
on
King
Street
West.
Now,
there's
one
short
one:
you're
not
directing
a
consultant
to
look
at
that,
but
I
take
it.
That
could
be
would
be
part
of
the
package
when
we
discuss
bikes
we're
not
directing
anyone
to
us
or
conclusion,
but
it
asks
basically
family-friendly
and
bike.
Expert
friendly
bike
trails
is
that
fair.
J
You,
mr.
chair,
the
study
will
be
very
comprehensive
and
look
at
all
different
types
of
cycling
facilities,
including
what
you
just
mentioned
on
King
Street.
So
one
of
the
first
things
that
the
consultant
would
be
asked
to
do
is
take
an
assessment
of
what
we
already
have
out
there
and
then
look
at
standards
in
Ontario
throughout
Canada
throughout
the
world,
with
respect
to
what
our
successful
IT
systems,
including
cycling
routes
and
pathways
and
pedestrian
facilities.
J
So
we
want
this
to
be
an
all-encompassing,
active
transportation
system
and
integrate
it
with
transit
as
well
and
transportation
demand
management
matters
measures.
So
at
this
point
we
wouldn't
rule
out
any
type
of
facility.
We
would
just
say
that
they
will
be
looking
at
anything
and
everything
and
integrating
that
with
what
we
have
and
looking
to
the
future
for
what
we
could
install.
H
E
Let
me
just
say
that
this
this
proposed
plan
is
and
I
thought
was
incredibly
complete
to
see
what
other
people
think
and
I'd,
like
the
emphasis
on
connectivity
and,
inter
you
know,
linkages
and
also
an
understandable
emphasis
on
how
it
links
up
with
our
our
current
capital
expenditure
proposals.
It's
not
for
working
on
so
I
live
it
a
few
technical
things
just
like
I
understand
what
we're.
What
we're
doing
under
evaluation
of
proposals
that
says
evaluation
team
includes
City
of
Kingston
staff
included,
include
cities.
Kingston
staff
will
review
all
proposals.
I
I
We
also
had
a
fair
bit
of
input
provided
from
our
colleagues
in
transportation
services.
I
would
certainly
look
to
having
somebody
from
their
group
participate
in
the
review
of
these
proposals
see
mr.
McLeod.
She
is
sitting
here
tonight,
so
you
may
have
already
know
Holland
here
to
be
part
of
the
review,
but
all
joking
aside,
Paul's
group
was
also
involved
in
looking
at
those
terms
of
reference
and
again
you'll
note
that
we've
been.
I
We
also
want
this
plan
to
consider
some
of
the
work
that
the
city
has
done
and
try,
and
you
look
forward
to
our
climate
climate
change
action
plan.
Some
of
the
work
that's
currently
happening
to
the
to
develop
a
community
energy
plan,
so
some
of
Paul
skill
sets
may
be
very
worthwhile
in
terms
of
looking
at
the
proposals
that
we
received
from
that
aspect.
So
it
gives
you
a
flavor
of
who
we'd
be
looking
at,
but
at
this
point
time
we
haven't
necessarily
finalized
to
the.
The
members
would
be
thank.
E
You
I
thought:
perhaps
the
statement
implied
people
that
were
not
on
staff,
I'm
glad
to
hear
that
the
breadth
of
who
will
be
involved.
That
sounds
really
good,
so
I
thought
maybe
I
was
implying.
There
might
be
others
that
are
not
on
staff,
but
what
you
said
seems
to
indicate
that
I'm
I
inferred
incorrectly.
So
didn't
you
just
tell
me:
if
that's
true
or
are
we
thinking,
we
need
a
consultant
or
some
members
or
anything
else,
I.
I
E
E
E
E
Just
trolling
for
their
questions,
unfortunately
paper
wouldn't,
would
be
better,
so
there's
a
statement
under
there
which
this
project
is
to
be
completed
in
accordance
with
the
master
plans
section
of
the
requirements
within
the
municipal
class
ei
I
meant
I,
don't
know
what
that
means.
So
could
you.
J
E
I
So
beyond,
just
assisting
with
a
framework
for
public
consultation,
the
environmental
assessment
framework
also
offers
a
little
bit
of
a
structured
approach
in
terms
of
setting
out
the
problem
statement.
So
in
this
case,
generally
speaking,
it's
the
development
of
an
active
transportation
plan
also
assists
in
terms
of
looking
at
alternative
solutions
and
setting
up
criteria
to
assist
us
in
terms
of
how
to
evaluate
those
those
potential
alternatives.
E
J
So
the
peak
period
target
I'll
address
that
so
that's
the
20%
that
we're
striving
for
over
the
next
20
years
for
our
actor
transportation
target
and
what
we're
saying
with
respect
to
on
traffic
Ontario
traffic
manual
book
18.
This
is
a
series
of
books
that
are
produced
by
the
Ministry
of
Transportation
Ontario.
So,
for
example,
book
12
is
traffic
signals
book
15
is
pedestrian
crossing
facilities,
so
book
18
is
a
book
that
was
just
recently
developed
by
the
provincial
government
and
it
what
it
is
is
cycling
facilities.
I
Yes,
it
can
be
my
apologies
councillor
Neely.
It
asked
me
that
question
and
whether
or
not
it
was
reflected
in
terms
of
reference,
no,
it
isn't,
but
my
memory
was
actually
going
back
to
the
discussions
we
had
in
our
informal
group
with
some
of
the
stakeholders,
and
the
discussion
on
by
chairing
did
come
up
at
that
point
in
time.
I
I
think
that
we
can
reflect
that
in
the
terms
of
reference
and
again
to
be
clear,
we
wouldn't
necessarily
be
looking
for
a
consulting
team
to
develop
a
bike
chair,
but
rather
to
give
consideration-
and
maybe
some
parameters
to
assist
us
in
terms
of
if
we
want
to
take
that
step
in
the
future.
Here
are
some
considerations
that
can
be
given
to
the
potential
for
developing
a
bike
share
program
and.
C
C
If
you
live
in
the
near
campus
neighborhoods,
there
are
an
awful
lot
of
students.
They
go
to
classes
on
skateboards
some
on
inline
skates.
Can
we
consider
what
practices
other
municipalities
do?
Are
they
allowed?
I
know
that
we
currently
have
bylaws
and
laws
that
outlaw
those
but
I
see
an
awful
lot
of
students
skateboarding
to
campus
every
day
on
those
days.
C
C
I
Is
definitely
an
accurate
statement.
A
good
example
of
that
and
council
was
made
aware
of
the
fact
that
we
were
successful
in
getting
some
provincial
funding
for
a
cycling
infrastructure
or
long
bath
Road
in
Collins
base.
So
no
this
would
not
preclude
us
moving
in
ahead
with
some
of
the
other
80
infrastructure
work
that
we
have
planned
over
the
course
of
this
four-year
term.
A
K
You
current
chair,
Allen,
yes,
I,
do
and
thank
you
for
assuming
the
role
of
chair
as
I
was
that's.
Why
occupied
with
cardiac
issues?
Ok
bike-sharing.
I
totally
agree
with
councillor
Neill
about,
and
this
is
something
it's
not
surprising.
It's
sort
of
not
in
the
report,
because
it's
it's
relatively
new.
K
What
happened
in
Hamilton
and
and
and
and
the
success
of
bike
sharing
in
other
municipalities
and
and
and
I
and
I'm
hope,
I,
hope
that
agree
and
with
California
I
hope
that
we
will
see
that
in
terms
of
reference
for
the
consultant
RFP,
because
it's
it's
something
there
really
any
any
consultant
who
would
be
current
on
things
that
are
coming
forward
and
working?
What
would
need
to
be
current
with?
So
thank
you
for
that.
K
Now,
we've
just
seen
changes
coming
with
the
courtesy,
crosswalks
and,
and
this
seems
to
suggest
that
type
of
treatment,
so
what
other
treatments
are
on
the
table
that
is
submitted
to
and
that
bulletin,
and
what
kinds
of
things
can
we
be
looking
at
and
then
in
the
second
part
of
the
question
is:
is
how
exactly
do
we
do
the
the
pedestrian
counts?
How
often,
and
in
what
circumstances?
Thank
you.
J
We
would
be
looking
at
a
variety
of
pedestrian
crossing
treatments
and,
as
you
mentioned,
we
now
have
the
ability
to
install
legal
type
crosswalks
with
signs
and
pavement
markings,
and
some
of
those
crossings
would
have
the
rectangular
amber
flashing
beacons
as
well
on
the
side
of
the
road
where
pedestrians
could
activate
that
with
a
button,
then
the
flashes
would
go
off.
So
that's
going
to
be
the
new
legal
type
of
crosswalk,
but
there
are
other
forms
of
the
new
legal
type
of
crosswalk
that
we
could
consider
as
part
of
the
a
TMP.
J
So
we
don't
have
to
have
the
rapid
rectangular
flasher
we
can
just
have
signs.
Some
of
the
crosswalks
could
include
an
overhead
sign
as
well,
but
the
good
news
about
that
is
that
we
have
at
least
a
few
options
with
respect
to
the
new
pedestrian
crosswalk
types
and
as
always,
we
can
consider
a
full
traffic
signal
or
a
mid
block
traffic
signal
for
pedestrian
so
similar
to
what
we
installed
at
800
princess,
as
well
as
for
Queens
of
the
new
Performing
Arts
Center
and
with
respect
to
pedestrian
counts.
J
We
do
have
an
ongoing
program
where
we
count
not
only
vehicles,
but
we
count
pedestrians
and
cyclists
as
well.
So
typically,
we
count
every
intersection
at
least
four
years
or
by
request,
so,
for
example,
in
May
June.
As
soon
as
the
weather
gets
really
warm,
we
will
be
doing
three
detailed
counts
on
surge
on
a
just
south
of
that.
J
Excuse
me,
where
we've
had
a
number
of
concerns
about
pedestrians
crossing
there,
we've
had
a
number
of
requests
for
some
type
of
pedestrian
facility,
so
by
request
we
do
complete
detail
counts,
so
we
would
be
working
with
the
consultant
to
determine
where
any
of
these
pedestrian
crossing
desire
lines
are.
That
would
become
a
part
of
this
18
network,
and
then
we
could
certainly
change
our
program.
Our
Counting
program
at
any
time
to
provide
the
pedestrian
counts
and
cyclists
Council
that
they
would
require.
K
Right
so
I
heard
you
mentioned
the
crossing
on
Sir
John,
a
which
I'm
familiar
with,
because
I
went
to
lcbi
as
a
teenager
and
I.
Remember
that
crossing
the
different
ways
of
crossings
or
Jenny
and
the
ones
that
were
safe
and
the
small
ones
that
were
less
safe
and
I
and
I've
heard
that
that
same
crossing,
just
south
of
Bath
is
still
an
issue.
K
It
seems
to
me
that
we're
just
sort
of
approaching
the
point
where
it
becomes
obvious
when
the
critical
mass,
like
in
a
downtown
area,
where
you've
got
many
many
pedestrians
crossing
streets
with
or
without
signals,
sometimes
jaywalking.
Sometimes
not
you
get
the
point
where,
where
we
found
the
solution
that
we
implemented,
that
at
the
Stanford
library,
with
the
pedestrian
scramble
right,
so
that
made
sense
there,
because
there
was
already
a
share
of
that
intersection.
That
was
so
high
for
pedestrians
and
I.
Think
that
there
probably
are
other
intersections
in
Kingston
that
are
similar
to
that.
K
It
seems
to
me
that
that
should
be
coming
out
coming.
That
should
be
part
of
the
act
of
transportation
treatment.
How
to
have
accurate
pedestrian
counts
in
places
where
the
pedestrian
numbers
are
trending
upwards.
In
relation
to
vehicles
such
as
we,
we
saw
happen
in
Toronto
in
in
many
intersections,
so
I'm
wondering
how
exactly
we're
going
to
approach
that
in
in
our
proposal
in
our
in
our
terms
of
reference.
J
It's
an
interesting
question,
most
of
our
intersections
in
the
city
with
the
very
high
pedestrian
volumes,
as
you've
noted
at
University
and
Union
at
Queens
and
throughout
the
downtown
core.
We
already
have
traffic
signals
in
place
because
we
have
high
volumes
of
pedestrians
and
we
have
a
lot
of
vehicle
traffic
as
well.
So
I
think
what
we
could
be
looking
at
is
part
of
this.
A
TMP
would
be
recommending
future
changes,
possibly
to
our
pedestrian
crossing
policy.
J
And
then,
when
we
develop
our
four
year
multi
year
capital
plan
we
can
determine
which
of
those
crossing
locations
of
the
highest
priority.
And
then
we
can
move
forward.
In
stalling
often
it's
a
traffic
signal
at
these
locations,
so,
for
example,
uncertainty.
That's
high
speeds
for
lanes
high
volumes
of
traffic.
We
would
never
consider
installing
the
new
type
of
crosswalk
there.
That's
just
signs
and
pavement
markings,
so
the
issue
as
many
of
those
crossings
require
a
traffic
signal
and
that
we're
probably
looking
at
a
cost
of
about
two
hundred
and
fifty
thousand
dollars.
J
A
K
K
J
We
haven't
differentiated,
but
the
e
bikes
you
mentioned
as
long
as
they're
traveling,
less
than
thirty
two
killings
per
hour,
then
they
can
use
cycling.
Facilities
and
municipalities
have
chosen
their
own
bylaws
with
respect
to
where
they
permit
those
types
of
vehicles.
Even
so,
as
part
of
this
plan,
we
would
be
working
with
a
consultant
to
determine
where
we
would
allow
skateboards
and
rollerblades
that
maybe
they
would
or
would
not
be
permitted
in
cycling
lanes.
But
it's
something
that
we
would
have
to
look
at
as
part
of
the
plan.
I
That
particular
policy
is
actually
referenced
in
the
city
resources
that
would
be
available
to
the
consulting
teams
that
are
proposed
on.
This
definitely
will
want
to
make
sure
that
some
of
the
aspects
of
that
policy
that
we
considered
back
at
that
point
time
are
going
to
be
built
into
this
active
transportation
plan.
I
C
C
J
C
J
H
You
mr.
Deputy
Chair
something
that
came
up
recently,
and
this
is
more
of
a
comment
when
I
was
again
questioned
by
someone
that
I
know.
Why
do
you
bother
with
bike
paths
when
you
can
only
use
them
six
months
of
the
year?
It
seems
like
a
waste
and
I'm
sure
that
lots
of
people
still
feel
that
way,
but
I've
managed
a
new
reply
for
me
was
we
are
now
trying
to
accept.
H
We
are
accepting
that
lots
of
people
can't
drive
or
don't
have
cars
and
up
until
recently
it
didn't
matter
you
just
if
you
had
to
walk.
Take
the
bus
ride
your
bike,
you
just
did
it
without
municipal
support,
particularly
we've
changed
our
our
way
of
looking
at
things
in
our
attitude
and
to
me
this
is
another
example
of
it.
Biking
isn't
just
because
you
want
to
and
for
your
health
for
many
people,
they
need
these
alternative
modes
of
transportation
and
they
need
some
municipal
support
to
help
me
get
around.
They
pay
their
taxes
too.
H
A
A
J
Yes,
we
will
be
working
with
the
consultant
to
establish
that
technical
advisory
group
and
we
want
to
have
a
very
wide
variety
of
members,
so,
for
example,
participants
from
K
Katz
and
the
Health
Unit,
possibly
Queens
will
approach
the
school
board,
possibly
a
seniors
group
accessibility
group.
So
we
want
to
make
sure
that
these
aren't
just
our
our
commuting
hardcore
cyclist
who
wants
to
cycle
in
traffic.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
we
have
active
transportation
users
from
all
different
backgrounds
and
demographic
groups
within
the
city.
Great.
A
A
It's
on
page
7
of
the
report
for
63
in
our
package
and
I'm
wondering
what
sort
of
smart
city
like
are.
We
are
we
asking
for
smart
city
type
monitoring
and
evaluation
type
things
through
this
or
are
we
looking
for
other
forms
of
indicators?
I
guess
I'm,
just
wondering,
if
is
going
to
be
a
framework
for
evaluating
if
we've
gone
forward
with
the
project
in
this
master
plan,
and
it
needs
to
be
tweaked
or
taken
out
and
put
somewhere
else
that
we're
going
to
have
some
sort
of
evidence-based
data
gathering.
J
We
certainly
can
work
with
a
consultant
to
develop
a
framework
for
monitoring
so,
for
example,
completing
traffic
counts,
as
we
did
in
the
Williamsville
area.
We
wanted
to
do
before-and-after
counts
and
on
Brock
and
Johnson
as
well.
Another
way
that
we're
going
to
know
if
this
program
is
successful
is
through
our
household
travel
surveys,
which
we
will
be
completing
every
five
years.
So
we
will
be
starting
an
update
to
that
in
2017
and
that's
going
to
show
us
if
there's
been
any
shift.
J
Since
the
last
detailed
household
travel
survey
was
completed
in
2008
and
then
we
would
expect
overtime,
because
we
have
20
years
to
hit
that
target
of
20%,
and
so
we
hope
to
see
some
growth
and
some
change
of
getting
people
out
of
their
vehicles
and
using
active
modes
of
transportation
as
well
as
transit.
We
do
hope
and
expect
to
see
those
numbers
shift
over
time
over
the
next
20
years.
A
Thank
you.
So
this
report
is
information
only
so
we
don't
take
comments
from
the
public,
but
I
appreciate
having
a
chance
to
comment
on
it
and
see
it
going
forward.
As
councillor
Hutchinson
said,
it's
looks
fairly
comprehensive
and
hopefully
some
of
our
comments
can
be
taken
into
account
during
selection,
so
we're
gonna
move
on
to
our
last
piece
of
business,
which
is
item
F
report
received
from
Kingston
environmentally
advisory
forum,
the
Keefe
working
group
terms
of
reference
and
so
I,
don't
know
if
mr.
McClatchy
has
anything
to
share
with
us
about
this
or.
L
Mr.
chair,
just
very
briefly,
the
Kingston
environmental
visors
reform
undertook
a
series
of
steps
to
get
them
to
recommend
a
terms
of
reference
for
each
of
four
working
groups
that
they
intend
to
advance
their
business
with,
and
the
adoption
of
the
terms
of
reference
needs
to
find
its
way
through
the
the
Mandate
of
chief.
So
there's
a
bylaw
that
that
recommend
it
recommends
those
terms
of
reference,
be
a
dog
be
placed
into
the
into
the
the
mandate
for
Keith.
E
A
E
A
K
A
F
For
clarification,
the
advance
list
is
morphed
into
the
priority
status
matrix
report,
which
counsel
gets
reported
on,
but
what
I
can
do
is
I
can
filter
down
the
EIT
P
items
that
are
forward
on
the
abeyance
list
or
the
priority
status
matrix,
and
just
so,
you
can
see
what's
coming
forward
to
EIT
P
from
that
report.
If
that's
easier,
that's.