►
Description
Heritage Kingston meeting from February 16, 2022. For full meeting agenda visit https://bit.ly/3rYiZ2o
A
B
C
A
All
right
welcome
everyone
to
the
heritage
kingston
meeting
joining
us.
Our
from
our
committee
is
peter
gower,
jennifer,
demeter,
donald
mitchell,
donald
taylor,
paul
banfield,
jane
mcfarlane
and
ted
smith,
currently
missing
our
counselor
dougherty
councillor,
usterhoff
jalinka
bernie,
jeanine
o'reilly.
I
do
believe
council
roosterhoff
was
just
with
us,
so
I
hopefully
he'll
be
able
to
jump
back
on
here
quickly.
A
Joining
us
from
staff
are
jennifer
campbell,
director
of
heritage
services,
ryan,
leary
senior,
planner,
phillip,
trout,
intermediate
planner,
alex
rose,
thompson,
planner
and
ian
sullivan
is
our
meeting
host
this
morning.
We
also
have
four
applicants
and
agents
in
the
meeting
and
we
do
not
have
any
members
of
the
public
in
the
gallery,
mr
chair,
and
with
that
I'll
turn
it
over
to
you
to
get
us
started.
Okay,.
B
Thank
you
very
much
indeed.
Madame
clerk
welcome
everybody.
It's
nice
bright
day.
I
don't
know
what's
going
to
happen
tomorrow,
but
today's
a
nice
bright
day
approval
of
the
agenda
under
other
at
the
end,
I
know
dr
campbell
has
got
a
couple
of
comments
that
she
would
like
to
make.
Does
anybody
else
have
any
other
proposed
changes
to
the
agenda.
B
And
seeing
none
look
for
a
mover
to
approve
the
agenda
with
the
addition,
don
mitchell
seconded
by
jane
mcfarland,
any
further
discussion,
seeing
none
those
in
favor
those
opposed.
So
you
have
a
an
agenda
minutes
of
january
the
19th.
I
have
had
no
notice
of
any
corrections,
changes
or
improvements
to
those
does
anybody
else
have
any
comments,
if
not
I'll
look
for
a
mover
and
a
seconder
to
have
those
approved
so
seeing
none.
A
mover,
jane,
mcfarlane,
seconder,
paul
benfield
discussion
on
those
minutes
and
seeing
none
those
in
favor
of
approval
as
printed.
E
B
And
that
is
all
thank
you,
ted.
That
is
all
one
two,
three
four
five,
two
seven
eight
present
voting
in
favor
pecuniary
interest.
The
usual
reminder.
Firstly,
the
question:
if
anybody
knows
now
of
a
peculiar
interest
in
any
of
what
we
will
be
discussing,
can
you
state
it
now
and
if
you
realize,
during
the
discussion
that
you
do
have
such
please
state
it
as
soon
as
possible
and
we'll
look
after
it,
then
seeing
nothing
on
that
we
will
move
on
to
presentations.
F
A
G
G
Don't
worry
yes,
I
I
promise.
I
am
I'm
actually
just
as
a
heads
up
mr
chair
and
members
of
the
committee,
there
seems
to
be
utilities,
kingston's
work
on
my
sewer
connection
right
now
and
there's
jackhammering,
so
I'm
in
my
basement
trying
to
do
my
best
to
hides
the
noise.
So
I
apologize
for
the
potential
disruption
anyways.
So
this
is
an
application
for
a
window
removal
for
an
alteration,
and
so
this
is
for
2368
middle
road.
The
subject
property
is
designated
under
part,
four
of
the
ontario
heritage
act
and
next
slide.
Please.
G
G
The
picture
to
the
top
left
is
the
front
south
facing
facade
of
subject
property.
The
picture
to
the
top
right
is
the
view
of
the
east
facade
of
the
mans
from
the
road
in
winter.
The
picture
at
the
bottom
right
is
the
view
of
the
south
and
west
facade
of
the
mans
from
the
road
when
entering
the
driveway
for
the
adjacent
church,
and
the
picture
to
the
bottom
left
is
the
view
of
the
mans
from
the
driveway,
approximately
25
meters,
from
the
building
next
slide.
Please.
G
So
the
properties
designated
under
part
four
of
the
ontario
heritage
act.
The
designation
bylaw
describes
the
following
relevant
attributes
to
this
file.
The
mance
was
built
in
1863,
resembles
an
irregular
building
pattern
when
viewed
from,
above
the
main,
all
the
main
block
window
and
door.
Openings
are
slightly
arched
with
the
soirees
and
have
cement
lug
sills.
G
All
windows
are
double
hung
with
six
excuse
me
with
six
lights
per
sash,
except
those
on
the
facade
of
the
north
south
block.
The
south
facade
facing
middle
road
has
a
three
section
window,
with
eight
lights
per
section
on
the
first
story
and
a
second
story:
lancet
window
with
intricate
glazing
bars
and
a
20
double
20
light
double
lancet
pattern.
The
south
facing
main
entrance
doorway,
has
a
four
pane.
Regular
transom
and
to
the
west
of
the
doorway
are
a
pair
of
french
doors
with
10
lights
per
casement.
G
G
The
north
south
block
has
one
upper
story
window
on
the
north
facade,
but
the
lower
story
window
is
obscured
by
the
kitchen
extension.
The
one
story,
regular
kitchen
wing,
is
attached
to
the
main
end
of
the
house,
with
a
flat-headed
opening
like
that
on
the
main,
walk
and
the
east
facade
has
two
lower
story:
windows
and
a
single
window
in
the
gable
above
next
slide.
Please.
G
G
G
Next
slide,
please,
the
applicant
is
proposing
to
replace
the
existing
windows
with
visually
similar
vinyl
windows,
with
the
same
number
of
lights,
style
and
external
mounting
bars,
incite
the
cost
of
the
window,
repairs
or
wooden
replacements
as
a
major
component
of
their
decision
to
go
with
this
design
and
material.
The
hope
is
that
these
vinyl
windows
will
look
nearly
identical
to
the
existing
from
the
road
and
driveway
at
the
subject:
property
and
better
control.
G
Essentially,
if
further
information
is
provided
through
a
qualified
professional
assessment,
this
condition
what
would
allow
that
opportunity
with
further
staff
review
to
allow
such
replacement
based
on
the
following
in
the
associated
conditions,
and
with
that
I
will
leave
it
in
your
hands.
Mr
chair,
thank
you
very
much.
F
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
I'm
wondering,
if
it's
possible
that
we
could
hear
from
the
representatives
so
that
it
gives
context
to
a
couple
of
comments
that
I
would
make
like.
I
do.
I'm
I've
been
there
twice,
I'm
still
confused
a
little
bit
about
which
windows.
So
this
recommendation,
my
computer,
failed
again.
So
I'm
on
a
backup
computer.
Here
I
can't
read
the
complete
recommendation,
because
I
only
have
one
working
so
normally
I
go
with
one
on
zoom,
so
I
I
can't
really
just
just
help
me
there.
F
F
B
F
H
Thank
you
and
through
you
I
just
I
wanted
to
jump
in
a
little
bit
because
I
think
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
the
counselor
and
everyone
on
the
committee
has
clarity
about
the
request
from
the
applicant
versus
the
recommendation
prepared
by
staff,
because
I
do
think
there
is
a
difference
in
the
two.
So
the
request
from
the
applicant
was
to
replace
the
nine
windows
with
a
vinyl
that
is
appropriate
to
the
original
heritage,
character
or
intent.
H
However,
the
windows
policy
requires
us
to
assess
those
period
windows
which
has
been
done
at
a
high
level
and
they
are
wood
period
windows.
So
staff
are
recommending
through
the
policy
that
we
would
request
repair.
The
permit
would
be
an
approval
to
repair
the
period
windows.
It
has
a
condition,
condition
4
and
condition
5
that
do
allow
that
if
a
qualified
professional,
as
philip
indicated,
was
to
do
a
detailed
assessment
of
each
window
and
in
each
case
was
to
find
them
to
be
so
deteriorated.
That
repair
was
not
possible.
H
Then
staff
would
then
engage
through
the
appropriate
windows
policy
process
to
consider
replacement
windows,
and
currently
we
usually
do
not
favor
vinyl.
In
a
window
replacement
scenario,
we
would
be
looking
for
an
aluminum,
clad
wood,
though
we
do
acknowledge
that
high
quality
vinyl
windows
are
increasingly
available
on
the
market,
but
I
just
wanted
to
make
sure
that
was
very
clear
for
committee
what
the
applicant
has
requested
and
what
staff
have
brought
forward
to
recommend.
I
B
J
J
They
have
a
four-year-old
child
and-
and
we
haven't
had
a
minister
for
a
couple
years,
so
we're
very
excited
about
the
times
right
now
there,
the
original
intent
when,
when
we
first
talked
about
this,
was
to
replace
two
windows
on
the
west
end
second
floor
of
the
mance
to
replace
one
window
at
the
rear
of
the
mans,
the
north
side
of
the
mans
and
one
window
on
the
east
side
of
the
mans.
All
on
the
second
floor.
J
These
windows,
along
with
a
few
others,
they
many
of
them,
do
not
open
and
close
properly,
sometimes
depending
on
whether
they
swell
we've
used
pinch
bars
and
screwdrivers
to
try
to
get
them
open
in
past
years,
so
they're,
not
really
user
friendly.
That
way,
they're
by
no
means
are
energy,
efficient,
they're,
subject
to
mold
and
mildew
some
of
the
windows
to
build
up.
I've
been
up
myself
for
last
year
in
two
occasions,
at
the
request
of
a
part-time
minister,
to
express
concerns
about
that
buildup.
J
They
just
don't
allow
for
a
proper
air
movement
on
the
second
floor
and
and
the
storm
windows
on
the
second
floor
windows
in
particular
are
are
it's
got
to
the
point
where
they're
almost
dangerous
to
put
on
and
off
we
have
to
borrow
or
rent
ladders.
We
the
people
that
do
it
myself
and
another
gentleman
or
mid
70s,
it's
it's
almost
dangerous
being
up
on
a
15
or
20
foot
ladder.
It
takes
two
persons
just
to
hold
one
of
these
storm
windows
to
get
them
on
and
off
spring
and
fall.
J
So
with
all
that
in
mind,
we
we
thought
that
we
would
try
to
go
with
a
vinyl
window
or
one.
That's
energy
efficient,
help
with
the
heating
costs,
because
they're
quite
expensive
and
the
man's
maintenance-free
windows
that
don't
need,
painting
and
caulking,
and
all
of
that
environmentally
friendly
windows
that
don't
promote
to
build
up
a
mold
and
and
and
and
the
elimination
of
those
those
storm
windows
that
are
are
getting
harder
and
harder
to
put
on
and
off,
as
as
our
help
gets
fewer
and
fewer,
and
we
get
older
and
older.
J
So
we
just
thought
that
vinyl
windows
of
some
type
would
best
suit
our
needs
and
the
chairman
at
the
time
mr
higgs,
who
isn't
here
today
and
asked
me
to
speak,
thought
why?
Don't
we?
Why
don't
we
ask
for
all
the
windows
being
vinyl
with
the
exception
of
the
front
windows
and
they
would
stay
the
same
they're,
the
ones
facing
the
road,
and
we
would
leave
those
the
same,
but
all
on
other
windows,
first
and
second
floor.
We
we
try
to
get
go
with
vinyl.
J
So
in
that
regard,
mr
higgs
got
a
couple
of
prices
on
vinyl
windows
from
a
couple
of
different
companies,
and
they
come
in
to
do
nine
between
fifteen
and
twenty
thousand
dollars,
which,
which
is
is
we'd,
have
to
do
fundraising
what
kids,
which
is
probably
doable
so
so
that
was
the
thought
there.
We
we
proceeded
to
to
get
a
hold
of
philip
at
the
city.
He
was
very,
very
helpful,
but
he
said
wait
just
a
minute.
J
J
J
J
J
It
was
very
helpful
and
and
as
well,
some
members
of
the
heritage
committee
came
down
and
they
looked
at
the
windows
in
a
little
more
detailed
fashion
and
then
and
came
back-
and
I
guess
made
a
reference
to
the
committee
or
spoke
to
your
committee
about
that,
and
I
I
guess
that's
about
where
we
are
now.
I
just
finished
by
saying
I
don't
know,
what's
good
or
bad.
Our
original
intent
when
we
first
talked
about
millennials
was
was
the
second
floor
windows.
J
J
B
F
So,
mr
bullock,
the
question
I
had
initially
so
you
went
from.
I
just
want
the
committee
to
be
aware
that
your
your
request
originally
was
for
the
four
windows
on
the
second
floor.
But
again,
no
you,
you
would
put
every
effort
into
the
south's.
Viewing
would
not
be
touched
because
the
south
view,
which
is
about
40
meters
from
the
road
would
wouldn't
would
have.
You
would
do
everything
to
maintain
that
perfect.
Look,
I
guess
right
is
that
what
you
were
thinking.
F
J
Mr
mullan,
oh,
the
mold,
has
been
there
for
a
number
of
years.
Keep
your
attention
the
last
year
or
two.
We
had
a
part-time
minister
in
there
and
she
phoned
about
several
things
about
demands
and,
as
a
result
of
some
of
those
phone
calls,
we
did
spend
a
few
thousand
dollars
refurbishing
the
inside,
with
some
new
paint,
etc,
etc
to
to
make
it
more
a
friendlier
place,
a
more
comfortable
place
to
live.
J
I
was
up
there
two
occasions
myself
with
javex
and
taking
rags,
taking
mold
off
the
inside
of
the
windows.
I
know
mr
higgs
was
up
there
on
one
occasion
doing
the
same
thing
and
that's
within
the
last
two
years,
and
I
know
we've
had
a
conversation
with
a
current
minister
about
the
mold.
That's
on
the
window.
J
She
has
a
five-year-old
son
that
sleeps
in
the
one
room
on
the
second
floor
facing
the
west.
That's
the
two
windows
that
are
opposite
to
church
and
her.
She
has
a
five-year-old
son
that
sleeps
in
one
of
those
rooms
so
that
that's
a
very
sincere
concern
for
us
and,
like
I
say,
we're
we're
excited
about
having
this
new
lady
she's
she's.
F
The
windows
that
you
did
consider
for
vinyl
through
the
chair.
Sorry,
the
windows
that
you
had
considered.
Where
were
they,
what
level
of
quality
were
they?
What
kind
of
quality
did
you
find?
Was
it
someone
who
is
aware
of
the
heritage
component
of
this
building
and
and
they
were
they
like
exact
they're,
the
vinyl
ones
that
you
were
considering
that
you
were
asking
for
agent
originally.
F
J
Yes,
they
were
mr
higgs
contacted,
I'm
not
sure
who
the
two
companies
were
but
contacted
two
companies,
I
think,
if
I
can
say,
I
think
they
were
kingston
kingston
plate
and
window,
and
I
think
boomens
and
there
might
have
been
one
more,
but
that
was
yes
that
was
part
of
his
the
requirement
that
they
would
be
identical
to
the
ones
that
were
already
there,
because
in
talking
with
phillip,
but
we
knew
that
the
heritage
committee
were
very
sensitive
to
that.
We
want
to
keep
a
world
country
church.
J
F
So
the
other
question
mr
bullock,
through
the
chair,
is
regarding
so
that
was
the
nine
windows,
but
at
this
time
though,
there
are,
I
understand
there
are
three
windows
that
are
that
are
the
creating
a
bit
of
a
crisis
for
livability
there.
You
showed
me,
I
think,
give
me
the
north
side,
or
maybe
the
one
more
but
three
windows
that
were
creating.
F
J
It's
four
councillors
to
off.
There's
there's
two
two
on
the
second
floor
on
the
west
end
and
there's
one
on
the
back
where
the
minister's
study
is
and
there's
there's
one.
The
bathroom
window
is
also
on
the
second
floor
which
we
have
to
on
the
on
the
east
side,
which
we
have
to
put
storm
windows
on
and
off,
and
those
windows
are
barely
visible
at
all
from
the
road,
certainly
spring
summer
and
fall.
You
can't
even
see
those
windows
from
the
road.
F
B
F
K
I
Hello
good
morning,
so
as
the
architect
of
the
group,
I
just
had
a
couple
of
comments
on
mold
in
a
house
I
mean
not
having
seen
this
space,
but
mold
is
usually
a
result
of
multiple
factors.
So
replacing
the
windows
won't
actually
necessarily
solve
the
problem.
So
having
mold
or
condensation
happens
when
you're
going
from
warm
to
cold,
especially
if
that
area
itself
is
humid.
So
that's
probably
part
of
the
cause
having
adequate
ventilation
in
that
space
is
going
to
be
part
of
your
issue.
I
So
even
if
you
replace
it
to
vinyl
that
could
persist,
I
mean
having
leaky
windows
like
an
old
wood
one.
You
can
definitely
be
part
of
that
cause
because
you're
getting
the
the
really
cold
coming
through
the
window,
and
then
you
have
the
condensation,
but
adding
storm
windows
is
usually
does
help
with
that
and
if
you
did
replace
them
with
wood,
that
should
also
help
with
that
but
yeah.
So
just
fyi,
there's
possibly
other
things
that
are
creating
that
old
factory
in
the
home.
F
There's
a
question
then
for
committee,
but
also
mr
crowl
and
maybe
miss
campbell
too.
There
is
a
there,
is
a
consideration
or
there's
a
review
happening.
I
think,
for
I
wrote
this
down
somewhere
and
I
was
wondering
where,
where
that
was
headed
in
the
context,
mr
chair
is
that
the
policies
regarding
windows
is
rigid,
and
I
think-
and
I
appreciate
that
every
every
file
that
we
have
is
unique
and
I
was
wondering
where
we,
where
do
we
imagine
or
where?
H
H
We
are
reviewing
the
windows
policy
and
that
will
involve
consultation
with
this
committee
as
well
as
likely
discussions
with
one
of
the
working
groups
of
the
committee
that
focuses
on
built
property
matters.
The
review
of
the
windows
policy
has
been
outstanding
for
a
number
of
years.
In
particular,
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
taking
into
consideration
the
new
products
that
are
available
on
the
market,
so
things
like
vinyl
of
a
high
quality.
So
currently
the
windows
policy
does
reference
specifically
things
like
aluminum,
clad
replacements
of
wood.
H
So
we
just
want
to
make
sure
that
what
we
are
enacting
through
our
policy
is
considering
what
is
actually
available
and
appropriate
in
the
market
when
replacement
is
justified.
But
we
also
want
to
clarify,
through
the
policy
updates,
how
windows
should
be
assessed,
mechanisms
and
and
ways
that
we
would
encourage
applicants
to
consider
repairability,
as
you
know,
essentially
the
primary
position
of
heritage,
and
this
is
true
across
ontario,
where
we
see
heritage
windows
at
every
heritage
committee
in
consideration.
H
H
We
would
like
to
just
have
clarity
for
applicants
so
that,
as
they
come
in,
they
know
what
we
are
looking
for.
They
understand
what
a
qualified
professional
would
be
asked
to
assess
or
speak
to,
and
that
we
would
have
the
stronger
ability
when
replacement
requests
come
in
to
through
the
policy,
consider
appropriate
replacements
that
could
include
vinyl,
but
only
in
cases
where
the
vinyl
can
be
demonstrated
to
meet
all
of
our
requirements
in
terms
of
a
similar
replacement
or
a
like
for,
like
replacement.
If
you
will,
even
though
they're
not
like
for
like.
F
Really
helpful,
miss
campbell,
and
so
that
that
is
sort
of
where
I'm
probably
going
to
go
with
this
is
that
we
can
anticipate
that
there's
going
to
be
changes
across
ontario
to
consider
higher
quality
products
and
more
you
know
again.
Every
situation
is
is
different
and
I
I
I
will
be
asking
this
committee
to
to
consider
something
a
little
bit
different
than
just
this
recommendation,
because
of
factors
that
concerning
livability
and
servicing,
and
the
current
this
place
is.
F
F
It
just
seems
to
me
that
it's
all
in
the
in
the
eyes
of
the
professional
and
though
I
respect
it,
it
still
could
it
still
could
be
detrimental
to
to
this
building
and
whether
it
will
ever
get
done
at
that
cost.
So
I
am
wondering,
as
we
go
once
we
see
the
recommendation
brought
forward.
I
I
have.
I
have
another
idea
with
that
I'll
consider,
based
on
what
I'm,
what
I'm
hearing
again
this
morning.
L
Thank
you,
mr
chair
and
good
morning,
everyone
good
morning.
I
wanted
to
raise
a
few
things,
but
first
even
partially
to
councillor
osterhoff's
last
comment.
I
I
feel
that
I'm
gonna
be
supporting
the
staff
recommendation
as
a
committee
member
and
partly
because
I
think
staff
have
done
a
really
good,
successful,
detailed
job
a
number
of
times
on
these
types
of
applications
of
going
through
what
is
the
relevant
policies
and
guidelines
and
balancing
that
with
these
other
considerations.
L
So
when
I
looked
through
it,
I
felt
that
it
was
very
supportable,
but
I
wanted
to
raise
a
number
of
other
things
and
touch
on
a
few
other
points
that
I
think
are
from
my
perspective,
are
relevant.
One
is
that
these
buildings
were
designated
together
and
I
could
say
later
on,
but
I'll
preface
it
that
you
know
for
almost
12
years
now,
I've
been
heavily
involved
with
the
church
property
and
a
man's
type
relationship
and
the
future
of
churches.
L
So
a
lot
of
these
comments
come
from
my
secular
position
happening
to
work
for
a
church
organization,
but
they
were
designated
together
and
when
I
looked
at
this
property,
I
think
that
that
designation
is
important.
In
fact,
you
see
that
they're
even
severed
with
that
relationship
in
mind.
You
also
see
that
I
think
it
was
chairperson.
Gower
made
a
comment
about
the
west
facing.
I
think
that
the
west
facing
is
equally
as
important
as
the
road
or
the
street
facing
a
number
of
times.
L
People
keep
raising
the
street,
but
I
think
this
is
a
part
four
property
that
was
meant
to
be
walked.
It
was
meant
to
be
engaged.
It
was
meant
to
have
many
people
and
that's
proven
in
the
number
of
renovations
that
have
occurred
to
it
over
the
years.
So,
even
though
part
four
sort
of
to
a
layperson
kind
of
perspective
seems
to
look
from
the
lot
lines
in.
L
L
That
includes
the
church
property
as
well
as
the
mance
and,
and
I
think
that
that
should
be
considered
and
respected,
and
so
that
came
up
for
me
I'll
note
that
it
was
said
earlier
that
that
the
windows
were
all
original,
but
I
think
somewhere
in
the
report,
I
saw
that
it
also
says
that
the
storms
were
likely
not
original.
So
I
just
wanted
to
raise
that
for
clarity.
L
I
also
think
it's
important
to
heritage
uses
of
man's
properties
and
and
what
they
brought
being
a
dwelling
for
the
minister
right
next
door
to
the
church
and
the
relationship.
Those
intangible
relationships
of
having
your
minister
actually
living
on
the
property
engaged
for
the
congregation
engaging
with
the
minister
and
especially
having
gone
several
years
without
a
minister
and
now
having
a
minister
again
and
so
again,
it's
those
relationships
that
I
think
are
really
important
that
we
also
have
to
consider
beyond
just
the
the
heritage.
L
So
so
these
buildings
are
purpose-built
heritage
and
later
I
was
going
to
mention
it,
but
I'll
mention
it
now.
You
know
rural
versus
urban
is
really
important.
You
know
the
organization
or
organizations
that
I
work
for
have
a
completely
different
direction,
that
they
will
probably
go
being
an
urban
church
and-
and
I
thought
over
the
years
really-
some
of
the
urban
churches
should
be
supporting
the
rural
churches
better,
because
these
buildings
are
very
very
expensive.
L
So
we
need
to
remember
that
a
report
came
out
in
2018.
I
think
it
was,
but
between
2019
and
2029,
canada
will
lose
9
000
church
buildings,
9
000
places
of
worship
will
disappear
in
that
10-year
period.
Is
the
estimation
and
we're
already
seeing
considerable
motion
going
that
direction
already?
So
these
are
another
sub
point
of
that
is.
L
So
the
other
thing
I
wanted
to
bring
out
was
just
this
idea
that
the
the
sensibilities
of
these
properties
change
over
time.
It
was
interesting
to
me
that
donald
haye
laid
the
cornerstone
of
the
tower
and
belfry,
so
the
original
developer
came
back
and
actually
was
involved
in
something
that
was
a
substantial.
L
I
would
argue
for
lack
of
better
term
artistic
change
in
the
building
and
in
some
way
that's
a
form
of
endorsement,
and
so
I
think
these
buildings
were
intended
to
have
these
different
changes.
I'm
not
qualified
to
speak
to
whether
vinyl
windows
or
metal,
clad
would
one
or
the
other
lives
out
the
essence
of
that.
L
But
I
think
we
have
to
keep
in
mind
that
we're
moving
forward,
that
we
will
see
enviro
shapes
increasingly
more
than
we
will
see,
cedar
and-
and
somebody
needs
to
weigh
in
on
that-
and
it
sounds
like
staff
are
going
to
do
that.
I
want
to
bring
up
a
couple
points
just
to
finish,
which
is.
We
also
have
to
remember
that
there
are
not
necessarily
no
options.
Many
many
churches
have
sold
their
man's
properties.
L
L
I
Also,
in
terms
of
the
livability,
I
guess
what
I
was
trying
to
say
earlier
is
whether
they're
repairing
the
the
new
or
the
existing
windows
or
replacing
with
vinyl
that
should
both
should
solve
the
leaky
window
problem
and
help
with
that
mold
issue,
and
they,
but
also
they
should
look
at
possible.
Other
factors
that
whether
they're
replacing
with
vinyl
or
repairing
the
wood
could
be
affecting
that
mold.
M
Yes,
thank
you,
mr
chair,
and
and
through
you
a
question
to
mr
bullock
and
then
I
guess
a
comment
and
perhaps
a
question
out
of
that
comment.
As
an
aside
the
question
to
mr
bullock,
you
mentioned
that
there's
four
south
facing
windows
and
nothing
is
happening
with
them.
Is
there
are
they?
Are
they
fine?
Are
they?
Is
there
nothing
wrong
with
them
or
I
I
just
would
like
some
clarification
on
that.
J
We
just
put
a
new
storm
window
on
that
a
few
years
ago,
but
the
the
inside
windows
on
that
room
they
open
up.
They
could
use
some
attention
as
well,
but
we
we
just
thought
that
we
could.
We
could
live
with
with
the
front
windows
as
is,
and
and
that's
basically
it
we
we
didn't.
We
thought
it
would
be
extremely
extremely
hard
to
to
to
do
anything
with
those
windows
because
of
the
the
the
heritage
committee.
M
Okay
well,
thank
you,
yeah.
Thank
you
very
much,
mr
bullock,
my
my
comment
and
perhaps
a
question
out
of
it.
It
seems
to
be
a
little
concerning
you.
Mr
bullock
mentioned
that
there
were.
There
was
a
list
of
10
individuals
that
the
city
has
that
someone,
like
mr
bullock
or
the
church
could
contact
about
about
their
problem
with
windows,
and
I
believe,
if
I'm
not
mistaken,
mr
bullock
said
not
one
of
them
returned
his
call.
M
Perhaps
the
city
should
be
looking
at
that
list
and
perhaps
getting
some
new
people
I
mean
at
the
very
least
I
mean
I
realized
there
may
be
other
issues
around.
They
may
be
very
busy
blah
blah
blah,
but
at
the
very
least
I
would
have
thought
they
would
have
had
the
decency
to
at
least
acknowledge
that
there
there
had
been
some
contact.
So
if
someone
from
the
city
would
like
to
comment
about
that,
I'd
certainly
be
happy
to
hear
what
they
have
to
say.
Thank
you,
jennifer
campbell.
H
Thank
you,
and
through
you,
I'm
also
going
to
just
comment
quickly
on
jen's
question
as
well,
because
I
think
that
maybe
got
skipped
and
then
I'll
come
back
around
paul.
If
that's
okay,
I've
been
taking
some
notes
so
jen.
I
think
you
were
asking
specifically
kind
of
about
where
we
are
in
terms
of
the
future,
perhaps
amendments
the
windows
policy,
in
particular
in
relation
to
repair
versus
replacement.
H
There
is
no
intent
at
this
time
to
alter
the
policy
in
such
a
way
that
we
would
move
directly
to
replacement
the
position
of
heritage
services
is
certainly
that
heritage
conservation
starts
with
a
repair
of
existing
heritage.
Attributes
and
windows
are
a
vital
component
of
a
building
and
their
primacy
in
understanding.
A
building
for
us
means
the
wood
when
can
be
retained
should
be
so.
H
We
will
always
begin
with
the
position
of
repair
and
then,
as
we
have
currently,
if
the
windows
are
documented
to
be
so
deteriorated,
that
replacement
is
appropriate
and
supportable
that
we
would
want
to
expand
our
consideration
of
what
replacement
windows
could
be
made
of
so
the
materiality,
but
still
the
primacy
would
be
on
that.
They
look
almost
identical
to
the
windows
that
are
being
removed
because
they
cannot
be
repaired.
H
So
I
hope
that
that
offers
some
support
to
that
question.
I
would
just
add
to
that
that
our
in
effect
windows
policy
does
list
some
material
considerations
for
replacement.
This
is
not
a
shall
list.
This
is
a
consideration
list
and
vinyl
isn't
is
not
on
the
list.
So
by
its
omission
it
is
we've
sort
of
operated
with
it
not
being
a
preferred
option,
but,
as
I
mentioned
earlier,
vinyl
windows
have
improved
greatly.
H
If
you
are
looking
at
a
high
quality,
vinyl
replacement,
it
is
not
where
stock
would
normally
want
to
go.
When
we're
looking
at
replacing
a
wood
window,
we'd
like
to
see
a
replacement
window,
that
would
be
wood,
but
I
think
we
do
need
to
be
very
open
to
the
realities
of
the
market
and
some
of
these
additional
considerations,
so
we'd
have
to
we'd
have
to
think
about
this
and
look
at
it
and
that's
what
we
were
intending
to
allow
for
in
the
condition
four
and
five.
H
So
then
moving
paul.
If
I
may,
to
the
question
of
the
list,
the
city
of
kingston
does
not
have
a
list
of
individuals
who
have
been
rostered.
A
roster
is
quite
different
for
the
city.
That
means
we've
credentialed
the
people
in
such
a
way,
and
they
have
submitted
their
professional
information
so
that
the
city
can
essentially
say
to
people
work
through
this
roster
as
the
only
list.
N
H
Community
members,
it
is
really
just
meant
to
say
sort
of
similar
to
here-
are
all
the
electrical
companies
in
town
who
may
be
able
to
support
the
rewiring
of
your
house.
That
list
is
always
added
to.
Even
as
recently
as
last
week,
we
discussed
making
a
couple
new
additions,
because
we
had
learned
of
some
qualified
heritage
carpenters
in
town
who
could
be
added
to
the
list,
so
that's
sort
of
where
the
list
is
at
right.
O
However,
I
think
I
I
definitely
will
be
supporting
staff's
recommendation,
because
I
do
believe
that
by
replacing
these
you're
going
to
have
an
adverse
effect
on
the
heritage
attributes
of
this
building
and
although
in
the
short
term,
you
might
save
money
and
headaches
by
putting
in
vinyl,
I
don't
think
I
agree
with
jen
in
the
long
term.
It's
a
the
mold
is
a
a
building
issue,
as
opposed
to
a
window
issue,
I'd
like
to
suggest
to
the
applicant
that
maybe
the
easiest
way
to
handle
it.
C
P
We
did
contact
all
10
and
3
did
reply
and
say
that
they
were
very
busy
and
would
not
be
able
to
provide
a
quotation
and
the
rest
did
not
respond.
Also,
that
was
a
great
powerpoint
presentation
by
the
committee
representative.
The
pictures
were
of
the
outside
of
the
mans
and
I
have
pictures
of
the
windows
on
the
inside
of
the
mans
and
if
you
look
at
them,
it's
very
clearly
shows
the
deterioration
of
the
woods.
P
D
Well,
yes,
I
was
planning
to
comment
after
the
motion
was
on
the
floor,
but
perhaps
I'll
respond
to
some
of
these
points.
Now
I
was
able
to
get
inside
the
house
and
look
at
most
of
the
windows,
and
my
opinion
is
that
they
are
in
quite
good
condition.
They're,
certainly
repairable,
they're
milled
you
a
couple
of
mildew
spots
on
a
few
windows,
but
nothing
that
is,
shall
we
say
totally
unfamiliar
to
most
people.
D
Who've
lived
in
an
old
house
with
sort
of
basement
facilities
and
that
sort
of
thing
anyway.
The
the
the
point
is
that
you
know
over
the
years
I've
seen
quite
a
few
windows
that
were
being
considered
for
replacement,
and
some
of
them
have
needed
replacement
and
almost
all
of
them
have
not
been
original.
D
That's
one
reason,
and
so
the
you
know,
I
think,
there's
a
feeling
that
sooner
or
later,
these
windows,
no
wood
windows
have
to
go.
But
that
is
really
not
the
case
if
they
were
reasonably
good
quality
and
reasonably
maintained
will
last
forever
and
there's
absolutely
no
way
in
no
way
that
the
heritage
value
of
the
original
windows
can
be
substituted
by
modern
plastic
vinyl
windows,
it's
just
a
totally
different
environment,
so
I'll.
C
D
B
D
D
D
To
happen
doesn't
have
to
happen
now
we
can
say
well.
Maybe
next
generation
can
can
do
that
job.
Likewise,
some
of
the
wood
joints
could
do
with
re-doing
or
disassembling
and
needling,
and
ideally
that's.
What
should
be
done
would
be
the
best
thing
to
do,
but
that
doesn't
have
to
be
done.
So
these
are
questions
through
all
kinds
of
questions,
and
another
question
is
whether
you
want
to
get
rid
of
the
storm
windows
or
not,
and
certainly
that's
possible.
D
As
I
said,
I've
I've
had
the
chance
to
look
at
these
windows.
I've
also
talked
to
bruce
downey
and
greg
sims,
who
were
probably
the
leading
experts
in
the
area
on
heritage,
windows
and
they've.
Given
me
suggestions
for
going
forward
and
they
are
not
necessarily
expensive,
you
know
another,
but
there
are
still
choices.
D
F
Yeah,
thank
you,
mr
chair.
So
I
question
I
have.
Is
I'm
miss
campbell
you
mentioned
so
we
we
know
that
on
there
is
flexibility
in
these
homes
to
do
to
do
work
on
the
inside
interior.
I
was
wondering
about
successful.
Have
we
shared
with
the
applicant?
The
options
to
you
know
to
make
more
efficiency
through
through
inside
there
is
a
possibility
of
putting
thermal
pain
on
the
inside.
Is
there
not?
Is
there
of
that
possibility?
F
And
the
second
question
I
have
related
is
what
success
have
we
seen
in
older
historical
buildings
like
where,
where
are
places
like
in
europe
going
like
you
know,
150
years?
Is
this
place
here
or
something
like
that
and
you
know
so
what
what
I
mean
I'd
question
whether
windows
like
these
are
meant
to
last
forever.
I
don't
think
anything
lasts
forever,
and
so
I
just
think
that
we
could
learn
from
you
know
other
countries
where
more
time
has
gone
by
and
and
what
have
they
done.
B
Okay,
thank
you,
councilman
half
here.
The
answer
to
the
first
question,
of
course,
is
this
committee
tends
not
to
deal
with
interior,
not
to
say
that
we
don't
have
knowledge
about
it,
but
it's
not
part
of
the
mandate.
I
would
suggest
that
the
second
part
of
your
question
is
part
of
the
work
that
the
ryan
and
his
group
are
going
to
do
in
working
through.
Can
we
repair
or
is
there
a
better
way.
F
Yeah,
I
just
wanted
to
breathe
some
life
into
the
possibilities
you
know
for
for
this
application,
like
on
mr
taylor,
said
it's
very
disappointing
that
they've
they've
come
looking
and
we're
we're
sealing
the
deal
for
them
that
that
what
that
you
know
they're
never
going
to,
but
almost
never.
It
feels
very
tight.
This
recommendation
to
me-
and
so
that's
my
concern
right
now
and
you
know
with
and
I'd
like
to
see
some
flexibility
up
into
this
motion,
and
so
I
have
a
I'm
gonna.
F
H
Jennifer
yeah,
if
I
may,
I
just
wanted
to
comment
on
the
interior
consideration
and
I
mean
typically
our
designations
as
you've
noted,
don't
kind
of
address
interior
features
unless
they're
exceptional
or
at
the
request
of
the
homeowner
or
in
some
very
specific
circumstances,
but
I
wouldn't
just
add
you
know
we
we
have
certainly
had
some
preliminary
suggested
discussions
about
what
interior
storms
could
look
like.
There
are
options
that
are
possible.
H
That
would
not
require
the
sort
of
mounting
of
an
exterior
storm
on
the
property
after
the
windows
were
repaired,
and
I
also
just
wanted
to
add
to
that
comment.
You
know
from
staff's
position.
We
think
condition.
Four
and
five
actually
leave
a
path
forward.
If
we
see
that
the
windows
cannot
be
repaired,
I
think,
as
with
many
of
the
windows
discussions
of
late,
the
key
question
always
begins
with:
can
the
windows
be
reasonably
repaired
and
to
counselor
userhawk's
question
regarding
kind
of
where
we,
at
with
international
standards
on
kind
of
window
repairability?
H
As
with
all
good
things.
Maintenance
is
a
big
part
of
this
and
I
think
a
lot
of
the
discussions
the
committee
is
struggling
with
are
in
situations
for
not
the
cause
of
the
property
owner
per
se,
but
there
has
been
deterioration
beyond
just
routine
maintenance
and
so
to
get
back
into
a
routine
maintenance
schedule.
There
does
need
to
be.
You
know,
a
larger
scale,
investment
in
getting
those
windows
back
to
where
we
would
like
to
then
see.
You
know
something
that
is
much
more
manageable
from
a
routine
repair
and
maintenance
perspective.
So
I
just.
H
F
Yes,
I
have,
and
just
you
know
I
appreciate
that
because
we
actually
don't
we
as
humans,
don't
live
as
long
as
the
windows,
so
we'll
never
get
to
see
that
full
full
story
on
unveil.
So
I
do
appreciate
that,
and
I
don't
know
when,
when
would
our
clerk
have
received
that
I
don't
know
where
to
fit
it?
Actually
I
don't
have
my
other
computer
going
yet,
but
I
I
wonder
if
she
did
you
there.
A
F
F
You
know
it
community,
though
it's
very
important
to
us,
but
I
worry
about
some
of
these
decisions,
escalating
the
decline
of
these
churches.
Where
you
know
you
know
it's
not
just
we
all
struggle
caring
for
our
homes
and-
and
I
think
that,
if
we
provide
even
though
number
five
seems
to
provide
flexibility,
I
I
think
that
I
think
that
the
risk
is
is
too
great
and
that
we
we
could.
F
This
is
an
opportunity
for
us
to
as
a
committee,
to
to
provide
just
a
bit
of
breathing
room
and
to
to
a
situation
and
celebrate
it,
and
we
have
to
recognize
that
you
know
that
we're
kind
of
here,
because
the
the
heritage
committee
from
pittsburgh
community-
you
know
all
you
know
that
was
even
more
rigid
than
how
we
see
to
see
it.
So
I
think
it
we
should
be
considering
putting
our
touch
on
this
and
seeing
something
survive
longer
and
be
a
supportive
of
the
community.
A
B
So
it
reads
in
consideration
of
the
request
of
the
owners
and
representatives
of
2368
middle
road.
The
temporary
option
of
replacement
of
the
requested
problematic
windows
be
permitted
for
a
time
of
no
more
than
five
years
to
allow
for
fundraising
and
completion
and
of
the
remaining
windows
as
listed
and
as
per
heritage
recommendation,
and
also
to
allow
for
further
review
and
consideration.
F
A
Mr
chair,
if
I
may
just
request
a
bit
longer
of
a
recess
just
so
that
we
make
sure
that
we
have
the
wording
that
the
counselor
is
looking
for.
Would
that
be
all
right
if
we
took
another
10
minutes,
I
apologize
to
the
committee
for
the
length
of
time.
This
is
taking
oh
you're
on
mute.
Mr
chair,
I'm
sorry.
I
can't
hear
you.
A
A
B
Well,
this
is
an
amendment
to
the
recommendation
on
d1
moved
by
council
who's.
The
half
waiting
for
a
second,
though,
that
the
recommendation
be
amended
to
add
the
following
at
sorry,
I've
got
to
get
remove
my
pictures
at
the
end
of
power
of
paragraph
clause,
one
bullet
three,
it
being
understood
that
the
applicant
be
permitted
to
temporarily
be
able
to
replace
the
problematic
windows
for
a
period
of
no
more.
That
should
be
then,
five
years
from
the
date
of
approval,
to
undertake
fundraising
and
complete
repairs
in
accordance
with
the
conditions.
E
B
B
Yeah,
that's
what
I've
realized,
let's
just
put
it
up
on
the
screen
so
that
we
can
at
least
take
it
in
and
then
I'll
get
counselor
to
use
to
have
to
speak
to
it.
Well,
that'll
help
me.
Okay.
Actually
I
know
what
I
can
do
I
believe
counselors.
Do
you
want
to
speak
to
your
motion
there,
I'm
looking
for
a
second
it.
Yes,
I'm
looking
for
you.
Thank
you.
F
F
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
drives
me
on
this
is
I've
been
there
and
it's
a
beautiful
family
there
and
and
there's
there's
some
concerns
about
health,
and
I
recognize
that
it's
not
just
windows,
but
in
this
situation,
if
you're
there
you'll
see
it's,
it's
a
concern
with
windows-
and
you
know
ventilation
is
important
and
I'm
sure
they
will
address
those
concerns.
But
you
know
we've
heard
about
what's
happening
across
ontario
we've
heard
that
many
many
communities,
thousands
of
communities-
and
I
think
this
could
be
just
a
a
great
test
case.
F
These
windows
are
not
visible
for
made
in
kingston
solution
to
breathe
life
into
the
possibility
that
they
will.
I
believe
this
community
are
is
honoring
the
heritage
of
this
home
and
their
intentionality
is
clear,
but
they
need
time
and
there's
a
you
know:
there's
family
living
there
that
it
will
allow
the
the
the
work
to
be
done
on
the
problem
windows
and
for
some
time
to
go
by
for
fundraising
and
then
securing
we're
in
a
pandemic.
You
know-
and
that
has
impacted
them
considerably.
E
N
Thank
you
and
through
you,
mr
chair,
I
think
this
conversation
about
windows
will
it
will
always
be
a
problematic
one.
It's
not
just
the
in
my
mind:
it's
not
the
window
framing
of
the
window,
but
also
the
beautiful
paints.
The
heritage
window
paints.
It's
just
beautiful
to
look
through
an
old
heritage,
actual
window
and
and
the
pain
and
the
glass
the
way
it
was
blown
together.
You
can
see
it
see
the
heritage
character
in
the
pain,
but
all
of
us.
N
I
don't
know
who
should
end.
First
of
all,
I'd
like
to
hear
from
mr
bullock:
what
do
you
think
of
the
amendment?
Because
I
actually
think
that
I
personally
wouldn't
like
it,
because
it's
double
the
cost
almost
but
and
it
doesn't
really
solve
it,
and
then
you
have
these
old
heritage
windows
sitting
somewhere
waiting
to
be
repaired
and
then
they
can
get
further
damaged.
So
I
just
think
that
it's
I'm
a
bit
worried
about
the
amendment.
So,
first
of
all,
if
perhaps
I
could
get
some
feedback
from
you,
mr
bullock,.
J
Okay
and
and
maybe
as
well
her
clerk
obsession
is,
is
on
on
the
computer
as
well.
Maybe
she
would
have
a
comment
but
anything
to
to
breathe
life
into
our
our
own
country
churches.
To
help
us
survive
we're
not
a
big
congregation,
but
we
are
looking
forward
to
some
some
better
times
ahead.
We
we
we
have
done
some
some
work
inside
demands
in
regards
to
a
new
oil
tank
in
recent
years
and
and
repairs
to
our
furnace
that
we
we
refurbished
the
interior
of
the
mans.
J
We
did
some.
We
insulated
demands
all
little
steps
over
a
period
of
time
to
to
try
again
to
to
breathe
new
life
into
that
building,
and
the
windows
are
probably
are
our
last
concern
and
anything
the
heritage
committee
can
do
to
help
us
and
that
agenda
money
is
the
biggest
concern
and
we're
not
after
fundraising,
we
we've
done
a
share
of
fundraising
to
survive
and
we
pledged
we'd
help.
P
B
N
I
think
it
is
does
state
if
the
windows
need
to
be
replaced,
that
they
that
they
would
be
replaced,
and
if-
and
I
think
that
would
buy
us
some
time
to
actually
find
some
help-
bring
some
tradesmen
and
experts
to
take
a
look
at
the
windows
and
see
if
there's
a
way
of
actually
repairing
them
in
a
costly
fashion.
Because
and
that's
the
challenge
just
trying
to
trying
to
protect
the
heritage
but
not
create
too
much
pressure
and
owners
a
financial
burden
on
anyone.
N
And
I
don't
think
anybody
in
this
committee
wants
to
actually
do
that.
But
the
way
I
read
the
record
staff's
recommendation
is
actually
that
there
is
space
there
if
it
needs
to
be
replaced
that
it
could
be
that
it
would
be
replaced.
So
I
just
wonder
if
we
could
hear
from
jennifer.
If
there's,
we
could
somehow
help
expedite
this
and
get
some
some
kind
of
experts
window
experts
to
go
over
and
have
a
look
and
give
some
give
a
quote
and
so
that
they
really
it
sounds
like
they
didn't
get
any
help.
H
Dr
campbell,
thank
you
and
through
you
certainly,
there
was
a
quote
submitted
on
behalf
of
the
applicant
from
the
individual.
They
did
ultimately
get
out
to
look
at
those
windows
who
was
a
qualified
professional.
That
quote
was
described
in
the
report
as
a
very
high
level.
It
was
sort
of
like
a
a
worst
case
scenario,
cost
on
those
replacements.
It
was
quite
high.
It
came
in
at
60,
000.
H
K
H
C
H
H
I
I
don't
think
that's
what
staff
is
seeing
here,
but
I
again,
I
guess
my
what
I'm
trying
the
key
principle
that
I'm
trying
to
convey
here
is
the
way
that
staff
have
crafted.
The
recommendation
is
to
allow
paths
of
consideration,
but
again
the
key
element
for
us
in
our
current.
In
effect
policies
is.
We
have
to
start
with
an
understanding
about
whether
or
not
repairability
is
possible,
and
then
thereafter
we
can
work
with
the
applicant
to
the
best
of
our
ability
within
the
policies
as
outlined
to
try
to
prioritize.
H
H
Prioritize
the
windows
that
are
in
the
worst
condition
allow
for
fundraising
to
be.
You
know,
spread
out
over
time.
They
also
can
apply
for
the
heritage
grant
to
provide
some
limited
support
to
this
work,
etc.
So
I
I
wanted
to
make
that
clear
as
well
to
the
committee,
so
we're
not
saying
to
the
applicant,
you
must
do
all
nine
in
one
one
shot.
L
So
while
I
I'm
hugely
sympathetic-
and
I
think
I
understand
the
rationale
behind
the
amendment-
I
don't
think
I
could
support
it,
and
I
I
can
do
it
from
a
practical
point
of
view,
which
is
you
know,
working
for
organizations
that
are
both
designated
exterior
but
also
designated
interior
and
having
received
permissions
to
remove
attributes
from
use.
You
know
the
reality
is
that
that
once
they're
taken
out
and
replaced
with
something
else,
the
odds
of
them
going
back
and
being
repaired,
the
the
enforcement
that's
involved
in
and
making
that
occur,
etc.
I
just
don't.
L
I
could
see
something
like
that,
but
in
terms
of
just
taking
them
out
as
a
temporary
replacement,
I
I
don't
practically
see
that
as
the
right
solution
and-
and
I
do
think,
it'll
be
problematic
storage,
whether
they'll
go
back
at
all
and
the
cost
still
hangs
there.
No
matter
what
that's
my
perspective.
D
C
D
So
it
just
to
me
doesn't
make
any
sense
to
first
of
all
replace
these
windows
and
think
about
repairing
them
after
that,
so
by
all
means
the
more
information
we
can
get
from
more
qualified
people
about
the
options
and
the
different
costs
associated
with
them,
the
better
it
is
for
the
applicants,
but
I
don't
think
this
recommendation
is
the
way
to
go.
Thank
you,
okay.
Thank
you.
B
B
Can
we
just
leave
that
there
for
a
moment?
Sorry,
I
I've
got
to
read
this
one
carefully,
thanks
it
being
understood
that
the
applicant
will
be
permitted
to
temporarily
be
able
to
replace
the
problematic
windows
for
a
period
of
no
more
than
five
years
from
the
date
of
approval,
to
undertake
fundraising
and
complete
repairs.
B
F
Yeah,
mr
chair,
the
idea
I
had
I
see
that
too,
but
the
intention
here
would
be
that
those
windows
would
be
removed
and
preserved,
and
you
know
the
entire
project
could
be
done
in
five
years.
Perhaps
if
that's
what
the
church
the
mance
committee
would
choose,
but
it
would
so
complete.
Repairs
was
certainly
the
three
windows
that
are
problematic
or
the
four
and
that'll
be
lots
of
time
for
budget,
and
also
it
could
be
the
entire.
F
However,
that
were
to
proceed,
but
I
just
most
of
all
it
would
give
them
time
and
it
would
give
them
again.
It's
understood
that
those
windows
would
be
preserved
perfectly
and
and
perhaps
they
can
be
replaced,
but
right
now
the
livability
is
at
risk.
So
that's
why
I
said
they
could
do
the
proper
replacement
now
and
then
complete
the
repairs
on
the
windows.
B
Okay,
thank
you,
madam
clerk.
I'd.
Ask
that
in
the
minutes
council
used
to
have
explanation
of
that,
be
there,
because
I
think
that
this
as
written
is
probably
a
little
in
the
speed
we've
done
it
is,
is
not
as
clear
as
would
be
donnie.
Are
you
still
waiting
to
speak,
or
is
your
hand
just
up
by
chance?
B
B
It
has
not
been
changed
at
all,
so
there
are
three
recommendations
and
six
conditions
moved
by
don
mitchell
seconded
by
don
taylor,
those
in
favor
of
that
notion
as
printed.
Please
raise
your
hands
or
shout
all
right
and
those
opposed,
and
that
carries
eight
to
one
seven
to
one.
I've
forgotten
how
many
are
here
eight
to
one.
R
R
So
the
woolen
mill
is
located
on
the
south
side
of
cataractley
street
abutting,
the
k,
np
trail
and
adjacent
to
the
great
cataract
river
or
otherwise
known
as
the
rideau
canal.
However,
this
application
only
pertains
to
the
area
former
formerly
occupied
by
the
boiler
room
gym
on
the
south
side
of
the
building
circled
in
red.
Just
there
next
slide,
please,
the
property
contains
a
large
red
brick
building.
We
all
know
it
as
the
woolen
mill
designed
by
william
newlands
and
constructed
in
1880.
R
R
The
bylaw
describes
the
building
as
built
for
the
kingston
cotton
manufacturing
company
about
1880
this
red
brick,
many
windowed
buildings,
one
of
the
very
few
large
industrial
buildings
still
standing
its
exterior,
has
few
alterations.
Its
interior
has
been
well
adapted
to
a
number
of
modern
uses.
Next
slide,
please,
the
owner
is
seeking
heritage
approval
to
modify
eight
openings
on
the
south
side
of
the
building.
The
eight
openings
proposed
in
this
alteration
are
currently
blinded
or
partially
blinded,
so
starting
on
the
east
elevation,
the
three
openings
are
partially
blinded
and
looking
at
their
design.
R
They
were
historically
window
openings
with
their
associated
limestone
stills.
These
original
openings
will
not
be
altered
and
the
new
windows
proposed
will
match
the
design
proportion
of
the
surrounding
windows
on
the
upper
floors.
This
approach
follows
recommendation,
18
of
the
standards
and
guidelines
by
designing
constructing
a
new
window
door
or
storefront,
when
it
is
completely
missing
with
a
new
design
that
is
compatible
with
the
style
era
and
character
of
the
historic
place
or
a
replica
based
on
documentary
evidence.
R
R
The
applicant
is
seeking
to
improve
natural
lighting
in
this
space
and
is
also
working
around
variable
interior
floor
level
heights
on
the
south
elevation
to
achieve
the
goal
the
application
is
proposing
to
install
windows
in
the
upper
two-thirds
of
the
openings
for
forming
poured
concrete
sills
with
limestone
knee
walls.
Beneath
again,
the
windows
are
intended
to
match
the
proportions
and
design
of
the
surrounding
windows.
The
poor,
concrete
stills
match
the
design
approach
that
is
also
taken
on
other
non-original
sills
on
this
building.
R
This
approach
for
the
south
elevation
follows
section
4.3.5
of
recommendation,
18
of
the
standards
and
guidelines
by
infilling,
the
original
openings
with
a
new
window
and
wall
that
are
compatible
with
the
architecture,
style
and
character
of
the
willamette
building.
Next
slide,
please
so
now
we're
moving
to
the
west
elevation,
and
here
the
proposal
includes
the
installation
of
two
windows
with
an
existing
partially
blinded
window
openings,
as
well
as
the
lengthening
of
the
northernmost
window,
opening
to
accommodate
a
door
to
act
as
an
entrance
to
new
office
space.
R
So
the
two
original
window
openings
on
this
to
the
south,
including
their
original
limestone
sales,
will
not
be
altered
and
again,
new
windows
will
be
inserted
that
match
the
design
and
proportion
of
surrounding
windows.
So
the
more
significant
alteration
on
the
west
elevation
is
the
lengthening
of
that
northernmost
window
to
accommodate
an
accessible
entrance
for
the
new
office
space.
The
possibility
of
relocating
this
entrance
to
one
of
the
existing
openings
on
the
south
elevation
was
discussed
with
the
applicant,
but
for
a
variety
of
challenges
and
considerations.
R
This
can
continues
to
be
the
preferred
location,
so
considerations
included
such
things
as
interior
floor
heights.
So,
for
example,
the
new
interior
floor
height
would
be
approximately
meet
the
top
of
the
proposed
limestone
knee
wall
also
improving
internal
floor
layouts
to
maximize
available
space,
the
ease
of
creating
a
bare
free
entrance
and
security
so,
for
example,
centralizing
access
by
the
existing
and
a
new
internal
vest
field.
R
R
Just
to
note
that
the
proposed
signage
adjacent
to
the
entrance
on
the
west
elevation
that
is
illustrated
in
these
renderings
has
not
been
finalized
and
heritage.
Approval
will
be
forthcoming
for
this
aspect
of
the
project.
Finally,
as
the
pathway
to
the
door
is
adjacent
to
the
smokestack,
an
important
heritage
feature
the
property.
The
applicant
will
also
provide
designs
for
this
pathway
and
associated
railing
to
heritage
staff,
to
confirm
that
there'll
be
no
negative
impacts
with
smokestack
masonry.
R
So
in
summary,
the
proposed
window
and
door
alterations
will
conserve
the
cultural
heritage.
Attributes
of
this
building
re-glazing
existing
openings
will
contribute
to
the
architectural
style
and
character
of
the
building.
It
will
also
improve
the
user's
experience
by
providing
significant
natural
lighting,
which
in
turn
contributes
to
environmental
sustainability
and
an
enjoyable
office
space,
thereby
contributing
to
the
long-term
adaptive,
reuse
and
conservation
of
this
culture,
culturally
significant
former
factory
building.
R
D
D
R
Yes,
three,
mr
chair,
so
yes
to
confirmed
on
those
when
the
partially
blinded
windows
on
on
all
three
elevations
currently
have
also
a
sort
of
transom
light
at
the
top.
That
is
not
original.
That
is
a
vinyl
insert,
so
I
believe
that
they
are
later
well,
certainly
the
vinyls
later
and
I
believe
the
blinding
of
the
rest
of
the
opening
is
later
as
well,
and
we
do
have
the
owner,
mr
jordan
camp
on
the
line
as
well,
so
he
can
confirm
the
timing
of
those
alterations.
Thank
you.
B
R
O
O
Perhaps
if
the
lifespan
of
these
windows
is
not
much
longer
the
existing
windows,
then
why
would
we
replicate
those
and
not
follow
standards
and
guidelines
by
having
exterior
muntins
when
those
windows
are
have
been
there
for
quite
some
time
now?
So
if
someone
could
comment
on
the
lifespan
of
them,
I
appreciate
that.
R
S
Yeah,
I'm
commenting
on
the
lifespan
of
those
windows
that
all
windows
require
maintenance,
but
they're
in
great
shape,
and
we
don't
have
many
issues
with
them
most
of
the
issues.
We
have
come
from
a
specific
event,
but
you
know
they're
in
great
shape
and
the
lifespan
of
those
there's
lots
of
life
left
in
them
and
even
more
with
how
well
we
maintain
them.
O
O
T
T
S
Yeah
as
a
point
of
pride,
I
think
those
what's
been
done
to
this
building-
and
maybe
it's
just
the
choice
of
words-
is-
would
be
a
little
better
than
just
okay.
So
there
are
a
significant
amount
of
windows
on
this
building.
There's
a
lot
of
windows,
window
openings
and
exact
size.
So
I
I
think,
aesthetically
it's
it's
best
to
match.
What's
there
we're
putting
in
eight
more
windows
against
the,
I
don't
know,
60
some
windows
that
are
there.
L
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
just
quickly
through
you.
I
just
wanted
to
thank
staff
for
the
comment
about
the
railing
to
do
with
the
the
new
pathway
to
the
door
for
the
accessible
entrance.
The
reason
why
I
mentioned
it
and
it
comes
from
real
world
examples,
there's
actually
three
little
points.
One
is
I've
seen
some
brick
buildings
in
town
heritage,
buildings
that
have
actually
been
scuffed
up
because
of
mechanical
things,
running
up
and
down
the
side.
So
that
was
one
concern.
L
The
second
one
I
I
know
where
I
work
the
pile
of
snow
up
against
the
limestone
and
the
mortar
really
does
deteriorate
it
and,
and
we've
been
advised
to
try
to
get
it
away
from
the
building
as
much
as
possible.
So
that's
why
I
raised
it
and
then
the
third
thing
I'll
mention
from
mr
dorn
camp,
which
he'll
already
know
but
I'll
say
it.
It's
a
real
frustration
when
the
rail
is
actually
fastened
into
the
pathway
because
it
gets
in
the
way
of
snow
removal
and
it
can
cause
snow
to
collect
in
that
area.
L
B
Good,
thank
you.
I
see
no
more
hands
from
the
committee
nature.
Do
you
have
any
other
comments
or
other
members
of
the
public
and
hearing
and
seeing
none?
Then
I
look
for
a
motion
to
a
present
approve
and
unamended
motion
that
you
had
printed
moved
by
don
mitchell
seconded
by
paul
benfield
of
four
recommendations
and
10
conditions.
B
Discussion
on
that
we've
worn
you
down
at
last
you
say
very,
very
good.
Okay,
those
voting
in
favor
of
the
motion
as
printed,
please
raise
your
hands
or
ted
speak
bye
and
I
see
all
hands
raised
there.
So
that
is,
I
forgot,
my
numbers
again,
nine
voting
in
favor
and
none
voting
against.
Thank
you
very
much
alex
for
that
and
that
moves
us
on
to
420
regent
street.
It
moves
us
into
part
five,
just
to
remind
you-
and
this
is
here
as
well
alex.
B
T
T
However,
the
property
does
contribute
to
a
number
of
attributes
you
can
see
on
the
screen.
As
far
as
the
district
goes
next
slide,
please,
I
would
note
that
the
existing
detach
one
story
garage
is
not
noted
in
property
inventory.
It
appears
the
garage
was
constructed
at
the
time
or
shortly
before,
perhaps
that
the
dweller,
when
the
dwelling
would
move
to
the
property
in
1950,
so
the
application
before
us
today
has
to
do
with
this
particular
garage.
The
proponents
would
like
to
gain
approval
to
demolish
it.
T
T
It's
to
be
clad
in
a
traditional
painted,
horizontal
wood,
clapboard
siding
on
the
front
elevation,
which
is
where
the
garage
door
is,
and
a
composite
or
vinyl,
horizontal,
siding
on
the
side
and
rear.
The
applicant
hasn't
settled
specifically
on
the
color,
but
considering
a
yellowish
tone
that
matches
the
dwelling.
T
The
roofing
is
to
be
an
asphalt
shingle
and
there
is
a
wooden
cedar,
shingle
detail
above
the
garage.
As
you
can
see,
the
doors
are
to
be
the
person.
Doors
are
the
metal.
The
windows
there
is
to
be
a
triple
sash
window,
vinyl
on
the
side
and
western
side
of
the
building
and
one
sash
window
on
the
rear
of
the
south
elevation
and
the
garage
door
is
a
simple
metal
overhead
door.
T
T
The
village
very
field
hcd
plan
requires
that
new
construction
adhere
to
the
character
and
rural
atmosphere
of
the
surrounding
neighborhood
in
terms
of
tight
matching
setbacks,
root,
pitches
and
exterior
materials,
while
new
buildings
should
not
try
to
replicate
the
historic
style,
their
form
and
materiality
should
complement
creative
characters
policy
section
four
five
three
requires
that
new
garages
be
lower
in
profile
than
the
principal
drilling.
This
building,
of
course,
while
slightly
taller
than
existing
will
still
be
well
lower
and
set
back
from
the
primary
dwelling
on
the
property
section.
T
The
remaining
sides
will
be
a
synthetic
horizontal
sighting,
the
hdd
plane,
while
it
discourages
the
use
of
synthetic
on
all
sides,
it
does
not
prohibit
and,
while
staff
encourage
you
to
consider
traditional
clotting,
replace
the
vinyl
given
its
location
well,
set
back
from
region
street
and
well
set
back
from
george
street
with
various
buildings
vented
landscaping,
obscuring
visibility.
The
use
of
the
synthetic
guiding
in
our
opinion
will
have
very
little
impact
on
the
overall
heritage
character
of
the
district.
T
The
applicant
has
proposed
the
use
of
white
vinyl
windows
in
insulated,
partially
glazed
metal
doors,
which
will
reflect
the
rectangular,
torque
and
vertical
proportions
found
in
the
district.
The
minus
the
materiality
and
color
of
the
windows
on
new
buildings
in
the
hcv
are
not
prescribed
by
the
plan.
T
T
The
plans
include
a
small
octagonal
window,
as
you
can
see
on
the
plan
on
the
screen
above
the
garage
door.
While
this
is
a
minor
feature
that
will
have
a
little
impact
on
the
overall
phillip
village
character.
The
hcd
plan
is
rather
specific
in
this
situation
and
requires
that
vertical
and
rectangular
dimensions
and
proportions
have
to
be
used
in
window
design.
T
The
new
building
will
be
designed
to
be
compatible
in
terms
of
materiality
roof,
roof
profile
and
window
design,
yet
subordinate
to
the
nearby
heritage
buildings
in
terms
of
the
type
and
size
and
the
modern
arrangement
of
windows.
Materials
in
the
overall
building
design
will
provide
a
clear
indication
of
the
recent
inclusion
of
the
district
in
terms
of
our
circulation.
T
This
will
require
building
demolition
permits
from
our
building
staff.
Our
environment
team
noted
that
all
the
designated
substances
need
to
be
identified
and
our
planning
colleagues
know
that
a
minor
variance
may
be
required
to
recognize
some
of
the
setbacks
for
the
existing
building,
and
these
have
all
been
noted
as
conditions
in
terms
of
our
circulation
with
committee.
Largely
we
received
no
concerns
from
committee
members,
but
some
noted
apprehension
for
the
use
of
vinyl
and
those
comments
are
included
in
regenerative.
Hacking
next
slide,
please.
T
T
Kingston
are
different
for
demolition
versus
the
new
construction,
so
the
first
part
of
the
motion
which
is
on
your
screen,
has
to
do
with
the
demolition
and
it's
a
motion
from
committee
to
council,
and
it
has
conditions
to
actually
document
the
building,
as
well
as
getting
building
demo
permits
to
remove
it
next
slide.
Please,
the
new
construction
under
section
42
does
not
have
a
a
role
for
the
committee
to
play.
B
A
O
Thanks
this
is
just
a
comment
for
the
applicant
and
maybe
ryan
can
pass
it
along,
but
it's
real.
I
know
it's
really
hard
to
source
good-looking
garage
doors
that
work
really
well
with
heritage
properties
or
are
heritage
appropriate,
and
I'm
just.
I
would
like
to
suggest
that
they
might
look
for
something
that
gives
the
effect
of
vertical
rather
than
horizontal.
It's
just
a
suggestion.
I
think
they
might
be
happier
with
it
thanks.
B
Okay,
thank
you
any
other
comments.
If
not,
we
have
two
recommendations
here,
as
brian
said
they're
slightly
different,
so
I'm
looking
for
a
mover
for
the
first
recommendation,
which
is
recommending
to
council
the
demolition
of
the
garage.
Only
I'm
glad
you
included
the
word
only
in
that
with
two
conditions.
A
B
B
D
B
Seeing
none,
then
I
will
put
the
motion
as
printed
the
recommendation
and
the
approval
of
the
new
construction
as
printed
there's
been
no
changes,
those
in
favor.
If
you
can
raise
your
hands,
I
and
ted
will
speak.
Thank
you
very
much.
Those
opposed,
and
that
is
all
in
favor
all
present-
are
in
favor.
Thank
you
very
much
ryan
for
that
that
takes
us
on
to
one
six
baggett
street.
R
R
R
So
the
property
is
designated
under
part.
Five
of
the
anterior
heritage,
part
of
the
old
sydney,
heritage,
conservation,
district
and
the
property
inventory
form,
does
rated
as
significant
to
the
district.
Interestingly,
the
structure
was
originally
wood
and
rough
cast,
but
the
facade
inside
elevations
were
given
a
brick
veneer
by
at
least
1892,
and
the
entire
structure
was
clouded
with
brick
by
1908..
R
I've
included
a
list,
a
sort
of
draft
list
of
heritage
attributes
just
for
people's
interest,
so
the
red
brick
facade,
it's
two-story
terrace
floor
and
masking
original
window
openings
with
wood,
sills
flat,
arches
and
entrance
with
the
transom
light,
and
certainly
the
brick
chimney
next
slide.
Please
so.
Staff
visited
this
site
on
january
18th
and
the
location
of
the
proposed
edition
on
the
on
the
rear,
which
is
the
southeast
elevation,
is
minimally
visible,
if
not
truly
invisible
from
the
public
realm.
R
So
when
assessing
any
potential
impacts
of
the
proposal,
staff
reference,
relevant
sections
of
the
old
sydney,
heritage,
conservation,
district
plan,
which
included
section
5.2.2
and
5.4.1
next
slide,
please.
So
the
proposed
edition
is
located
on
the
rear
elevation
centrally
loca,
which
is
centrally
located
within
the
terrace.
Further
minimizing
its
visibility.
The
one-story
height
and
proposed
footprint
at
approximately
1.78
square
meters
will
be
clearly
secondary
in
terms
of
its
size
and
in
relation
to
the
existing
house.
This
small
edition
will
also
be
constructed
onto
an
existing
contemporary
two-story
rear
edition
and
not
the
original
row
house.
R
R
Section
5.4.1
notes
that
additions
are
not
required
to
replicate
an
existing
heritage
style
and
to
make
efforts
to
use
cloudy
materials
for
additions
to
existing
buildings
that
are
complementary
to
but
distinct
from
the
existing
building.
So
the
proposed
design
will
largely
match
the
design
of
an
existing
rear
re-audition
on
the
neighboring
property
at
165
bagot
street.
R
This
one
story
edition
is
clad
and
will
be
clad
in
vinyl,
citing
to
match
the
existing
two-story
edition,
as
well
as
a
smaller
edition
at
165,
a
one
over
one
sash
window
and
a
single
person
door
will
define
the
southeast
elevation
a
shed
roof
with
dark
gray
asphalt.
Shingles
completes
the
design,
so
this
is
a
very
simple
design
which
ties
in
comfortably
with
the
existing
contemporary
two-story
edition,
as
well
as
with
the
neighboring
property
at
165
street.
R
The
design
is
contemporary,
does
not
blue
the
distinction
between
new
and
old
and
although
vinyl,
siding
and
vinyl
windows
are
not
typically
considered
to
be
appropriate
materials
for
heritage
buildings.
This
the
existing
additions
were
constructed
prior
to
the
designation
of
the
district
in
2015
and
additionally,
these
very
small
additions
are
not
visible
from
the
public
realm
and
consequently
they're
not
viewed
in
relation
to
the
original
buildings
from
the
public
views
within
the
district.
R
In
summary,
the
proposed
edition
will
be
invisible
from
the
public
realm
and
its
simple
design
and
small
size
will
not
cause
any
adverse
impacts,
the
heritage
attributes
of
the
subject,
property
sub-area
or
the
heritage
conservation
district.
So
the
next
slide
contains
the
recommendation,
as
well
as
a
series
of
conditions
there.
We
are
and
thank
you
and
I
welcome
any
questions.
B
Good,
thank
you
very
much.
First
of
all,
the
members
confirming
their
dash
comments
and
I
will
go
first
there,
because
my
comment
is
is
wrong.
I
could
not.
When
I
was
looking
at
this
on
dash,
I
couldn't
get
a
picture
of
the
window
on
the
door
that
was
being
proposed,
and
I
said
it
should
be
what
is
presently
on
165
and
what
I
really
meant
was
that
it
could
be
the
same
sort
of
size
and
idea.
So
I
would
if
I
was
doing
it
now.
I
would
rewrite
that
comment.
Anybody
else.
B
B
K
K
I
have
older,
family
and
friends
that
we
have
to
be
very
strategic
about
their
visiting
the
home
because
it's
it's
it's
a
stairwell
to
get
to
the
washroom.
So
very
practically.
That's
the
purpose
of
this
addition
that
those
those
two
and
a
half
feet
is
enough
to
give
me
enough
room
to
create
a
small
powder
room
as
well
as
to
renovate
the
kitchen.
K
So
I
I
truly
haven't
reached
out
to
contractors
to
get
specifics
until
I
I
got
this
permit
and
the
building
permit.
So
that's
why
there's
not
a
lot
of
kind
of
specific
details
about
specific
doors
or
specific
windows,
because
I
was
waiting
to
get
some
feedback
before
I
I
moved
on
to
that
next
step.
So
thank
you
very
much
for
for
the
opportunity
to
say
a
few
words
good.
B
Well,
thank
you
and
welcome
to
southern
hem
district
and,
as
condition
five
says,
you're
going
to
be
talking
with
the
heritage
planning
staff
alex
and
so
on.
Anyway,
on
those
materials,
and
so
I'm
sure
they
will
give
you
lots
of
of
guidance
and
confidentially,
I
would
say,
follow
it:
it's
really
they're
good
other
members
of
the
public,
if
not
committee
members,
questions.
B
And
seeing
none
final
comments
and
seeing
none,
you
have
a
motion
with
one
recommendation
and
six
conditions
looking
for
a
mover
to
to
move
this
forward,
jane
mcfarlane,
thank
you
and
a
seconder
councillor.
Docherty
just
got
in
there
first
further
last
comments
on
this
and
seeing
none
then
those
in
favor.
If
you
can
raise
your
hand
and
shout
out
if
you're
dead,.
C
B
That
brings
us
to
the
pre-consultation
on
234
242
university,
and
I
would
remind
the
committee
members
when
it
comes
to
discussion
and
comments
that
this
is
purely
the
inherit.
The
heritage
aspect
of
the
effect
on
snowden
terrace,
there's
no
point
in
getting
into
long
discussions
on
things
which
are
not
in
our
purview.
So,
oh
philip,
there.
You
are
a
real
philip
now
sitting
in
front
of
city
hall,
very
good.
I
think
we
said
10
minutes
for
the
presentation.
G
F
F
G
G
Please,
these
photos
show
the
existing
condition
of
the
facade,
the
carriageway
the
view
looking
down
south
university
avenue
and
the
view
looking
west
from
william
street
next
slide.
Please,
the
property
is
designated
with
the
following
entry.
The
five
dwellings
of
the
stucco
terrace
were
built
in
1887
by
contractor
william
snowden
the
wide
wooden
surround
so
the
doors
and
windows,
the
transom
lights
and
all
first
story.
G
So
the
applicant's
agent
is
going
to
be
speaking
in
this
more
detail,
but
it's
a
very,
very,
very
brief
introduction.
The
top
two
images
are
the
perpendicular
proposal
and
you
can
see
the
site
plan
and
rendering
there
and
the
bottom
two
pictures
are
the
parallel
proposal,
the
site
plan
and
rendering
there
andre
shineman
has
submitted
a
response
to
committee
comments,
and
the
agents
for
the
applicant
can
speak
to
this
shortly
and
it's
also
available
in
the
materials
provided
for
your
review
next
slide.
G
In
summary,
the
applicant
is
seeking
feedback
on
both
proposals
from
a
heritage
perspective,
the
parallel
and
perpendicular
one.
When
looking
for
this
application
on
dash,
please
note
that
the
entire
property
proposal
is
submitted
under
240
university
avenue
because
they
are
still
all
separate
lots
and
at
this
time,
I'd
like
to
introduce
the
applicant's
designer
ray
zabeck
from
schultz
and
zabeck,
who
has
worked
extensively
on
this
proposal
and
is
eager
to
hear
your
feedback
and
report
back
to
the
project
team
after
their
presentation.
Thank
you
very
much.
B
Q
Q
They
they
seem
to
me
to
be
very
serious
about
restoring
this
building.
That
building
is
in
the
five
units
on
that
site
are
in
desperate
need
of
repair
and
rehabilitation,
they're
that
building
1887
building
they're,
I'm
not
sure
if
the
parge
finish
and
stucco
finish
on
the
building
is
original.
There
may
be
some
portions
of
it
that
original
there's
also
a
tremendous
amount
of
repair
work
that
has
been
done,
and
you
know
the
building
is
a
student
rental.
Q
I
think
that's
just
a
fact
of
life
there
on
that
strip
of
of
university
avenue.
It
is
a
student
rental.
Now
it
will
remain
a
student
rental,
but
they
are
fully
intent
on
restoring
that
building.
In
order
to
do
that,
I
think
the
idea
is
they
have
to
improve
the
sort
of
yield
on
the
site
by
increasing
the
number
of
rental
units
number
of
beds.
Q
I
just
like
to
sort
of
preface
all
these
remarks
with
that,
so
we
we'd
looked
originally
at
two.
The
two
proposals,
the
original
proposal,
which
we
liked
was
a
perpendicular
proposal
where
we
had,
we
maintained
a
kind
of
courtyard
running
from
the
rear
of
the
original
building
to
the
rear
fence
line
and
using
that
courtyard,
as
an
entrance
to
six
rental
units
on
the
back
two
rows
of
three.
Q
The
one
thing
that
we
we
sort
of
struggled
with
with
that
proposal
was
the
what
it
does:
the
neighboring
properties
to
the
north
and
the
south.
The
the
rear
yards
will
be
confronted
with
this
wall,
which
is
a
very
sort
of
limited
fenestration
in
it,
and
you
know
we're
trying
to
do
the
best
we
can
in
terms
of
making
the
facades
presentable
along
those
side
yards.
Q
We
had
some
consultation
with
the
heritage
staff
about
this,
and
there
was
some.
I
think
we
find
that
they
could
speak
for
themselves,
but
I
think
there
was
some
some
support
for
that
proposal.
We
did
recognize
the
those
sort
of
side
yards
that
we
thought
were
problematic.
The
side
yards
you
know,
being
that
close
to
the
any
development
in
this
site,
which
is
close
to
those
adjacent
property
lines,
is
going
to
be
limited
to
the
amount
of
fenestration
they
have.
Q
So
we
opted
to
look
at
another
proposal,
basically
putting
another
row
of
five
residential
units.
These
would
be
essentially
identical
units
in
a
row
at
the
the
west
side
of
the
property
that
would
maintain
a
courtyard
between
the
buildings,
the
the
buildings,
the
original
building,
the
the
lean
twos
and
the
additions
that
were
that
have
been
evolved
over
the
years
in
the
back.
That
building
would
be
removed
and
we
would
put
more
sort
of
a
disciplined
design
of
additions
on
the
back
for
those
buildings.
Q
They
would
maintain
the
number
of
students
in
those
buildings.
I
think
there's
currently
22
bedrooms
on
contained
within
those
five
units
that
we
would
maintain.
The
22
rooms
being
housed
in
those
buildings
and
we
would
provide
the
the
new
buildings
would
have.
There
would
be
five
buildings
with
five
bedrooms,
each
at
the
rear
of
the
property.
Q
Q
We
you
know
we
want
to
present
both
of
these
proposals
and
get
your
feedback
on
each
one
of
them
to
kind
of
direct
us
a
little
bit
and
which
way
to
go
instead
of
coming
to
you
with
a
you
know,
a
kind
of
preferred
proposal
on
our
part.
We
we'd
like
to
have
a
discussion
with
you
to
see
where
to
get
your
opinion
on
this,
and
you
know
if
any
modifications
need
to
be
considered,
we're
all
yours.
B
L
Thank
you,
mr
chair,
and
and
through
you,
so
I
guess
first
thanks
to
the
director
of
heritage
services,
because
I
guess
this
this
opportunity
to
comment
wouldn't
exist
normally,
but
that
mechanism
has
been
provided
your
comments,
mr
chair,
at
the
the
beginning.
Notwithstanding
I
I
view
this
even
as
a
part,
four
and
very
close
to
the
heritage,
district
and
sort
of
bridging
between
the
university
district
and
the
heritage
district,
but
also
kind
of
representative
of
the
district
as
a
whole,
which
I
live
in
and
work
in.
L
L
I'm
a
little
concerned
that
this
design
for
the
public
realm,
meaning
the
view
from
the
street
as
opposed
to
what's
best
for
the
property
in
the
neighborhood
as
a
whole,
and
I'm
a
little
bit
concerned
about
the
sort
of
this
binary
of
you
have
option
one
and
option.
Two
and
I'll
come
back
to
that
in
a
little
bit.
For
me,
the
carriageway,
the
most
important
aspect
is
actually
the
pass-through
of
the
carriageway
and
the
reveal.
L
So
the
the
courtyard
design
aspect
is
really
cool
dan
parallac
in
in
his
missing
middle
work.
Has
examples
of
that.
I
may
come
back
to
that
as
well
and-
and
I
think
it's
a
really
strong
choice
and
it's
supposedly
a
forgotten
form,
arguably
heritage,
but
a
forgotten
form,
and
there
are
many
heritage
examples
of
the
courtyard
type
design
for
the
lot.
So
that
struck
me
right
away.
L
The
other
one
was
the
heightened
massing
versus
the
quality
of
urban
design,
and
I
know
in
sydney
district
in
particular,
but
all
the
core
districts.
You
get
a
lot
of
these
developments
and
a
lot
of
the
public
reaction
to
it,
whether
it's
heritage
or
not,
but
in
this
case
I'll
say
heritage
is,
is
the
is
the
height
and
the
massing
that's
being
put
on
the
property,
and
we
always
question
whether
or
not
it's
too
much
for
for
a
given
lot,
and
so
that
was
interesting
to
me.
L
Looking
at
this,
and
I
wondered
about
things
heritage-wise
like
trees,
I
don't
think
we
should
reward
a
backyard
parking
lot.
That's
been
there
for
years
by
saying.
Well,
since
the
tree's,
not
there,
a
tree
shouldn't
go
there
and
you
were
talking
about
the
side,
neighbors
and
and
the
quality
of
experience
for
them,
and
so
things
that
came
out
to
me
were
trees.
L
That's
really
brought
out
of
this.
If
we
can
get
more
people
in
in
heritage,
part
four
properties,
but
also
closer
to
the
heritage
district,
I
think
that's
a
huge
positive
and-
and
that's
in
this,
so
rooming
houses
and
multiple
housing
units
etc.
I
think
this
really
carries
that
out.
I
think
it's
a
great
location
in
the
part
of
the
city.
I
didn't
like
option
two
as
much,
and
I
will
tell
you
why
it
came
across
to
me,
as
is
not
quite
as
equitable.
L
It
came
across
to
me
as
more
of
a
subservient
build.
I
didn't
like
the
idea
that
it
was
a
building
behind
or
a
structure
a
set
of
structures
behind
a
structure
I
felt
the
other
one
was
more
like
a
heritage,
district,
kind
of
feel
or
a
heritage
property
where
everything
was
interacting
with
each
other
in
in
a
in
a
positive
sort
of
way.
I
know
it's
standard
comments,
but
it
you
know,
parks
and
forestry.
Both
comp
commenting,
no
concerns.
L
L
You
know
the
five
buildings
that
are
won
the
snowden
structure,
or
am
I
only
really
seeing
a
very
small
snapshot
of
it
because
we've
got
so
much
building
right
up
against
that
that
really
you're
only
seeing
a
very
partial
bit
of
the
back.
I
know
there
is
space
between
the
builds,
but
I
felt
like
that.
That
type
of
stuff
could
be
manipulated
and
sometimes
when
we
segment
approvals,
those
things
get
lost.
So
heritage
committee
doesn't
get
to
comment
on
that
stuff
because
it's
planning
that's
going
to
resolve
that
or
site
planning.
L
L
I
think
there
are
other
tangible
and
intangible
attributes
that
we
don't
often
discuss
as
heritage
in
the
structures
that
I
really
felt
should
come
out
and-
and
all
of
that
leads
me
to
the
idea
of
what
is
missing
middle
and-
and
I
have
a
different
perspective
than
some
of
the
development
community
and
that
I
don't
think
we
need
to
point
load
every
lot.
So
my
question
was,
you
know
when
I
look
at
dan
paralyx
courtyard
type
designs
and
he's
talking
840
square
feet
for
units.
L
And
I
think
I'll
just
leave
it
there,
because
I've
talked
for
a
long
time.
But
to
me,
heritage
really
does
need
to
be
involved
in
in
the
conversation
of
what
is
the
appropriate
scale
or
density
recognizing.
As
you
said
at
the
inception,
there
are
costs
to
taking
the
heritage
structure
and
rejuvenating
it
and
and
repairing
it
and
restoring
it.
And
obviously,
then
the
development
in
behind
is
trying
to
recoup
some
of
that
value.
D
I
guess
the
standards
and
guidelines
says
that
additions
or
new
buildings,
some
heritage
property
should
be
secondary
and
yeah.
They
may
be
lower
slightly
lower
in
height,
but
with
the
massing
that
we're
seeing
they're,
not,
I
don't
think
they're
going
to
be
secondary.
I
think
they're
going
to
be
pretty
apparent
to
neighbors
to
on
all
sides,
and
I
think
it
really
does
change
the
character
of
the
street
of
the
block
and
it
does
change
the
character
of
what
is
meant
to
be.
D
O
So
I'm
thinking
about
the
whole
property
and
I'm
really
concerned
about
the
size
and
the
massing
of
the
of
the
buildings
as
proposed.
I
don't
really
know
what
to
suggest
other
than
a
larger
addition
on
the
back
is
a
possibility
or
something
that's
much
smaller
in
scale
so
that
it
is
seen
as
subordinate.
O
The
other
concern
I
have
is,
as
I
said
in
my
dash,
was
just
the
whole
issue
of
accessing
for
building
and
and
building
maintenance,
and,
yes,
it's
cool
to
go
through
that
carriageway.
I
think
it's
really
exciting,
however,
bringing
bins
and
deliveries
and
well
construction
to
begin
with,
and
deliveries
to
those
buildings
through
the
carriageway.
O
N
But
it
didn't
accept
it
there
you
go
thanks.
Well,
actually,
I
think
this
is
a
pretty
clever
example
of
infill
and
if,
if
if
it
is
done,
I
hear
the
concerns
about
massing,
and
I
agree
with
that
as
well.
I
do
really
like,
though,
the
first
first
set
of
drawings
on
page
142,
the
examples
where
they're
they're
not
they're
the
two
separate
buildings
in
the
backyard
with
the
courtyard.
N
It
reminds
me
of
a
very
european
kind
of
look,
and
certainly
in
europe,
you
go
through
these
courtyards
and
you
have
these
other
buildings
on
the
back
and
I
think
it's
very
attractive
kind
of
look
and
we
do
need
to
be
mindful
about
the
massing.
I
think
that's
a
very,
very
good
point,
if
you're
on
to
something
here
and
some
tweaking,
if
you
could
just
make
it
smaller,
I
think
it
would
be
a
really
kind
of
neat
and
exciting
project
and
we
do
really
seriously
need
the
info
in
in
especially.
B
O
Yes,
I
just
wanted
to
ask
about
airflow.
I
just
want
to
reiterate
that
point:
airflow,
sunlight
and
especially
the
perpendicular
option.
I
have
I'm
just
concerned
about
the
properties
on
either
side
feeling
boxed
in
by
that
and
the
house,
the
existing
terrace
as
well,
and
whether
or
not
they're
going
to
get
air
flow,
sunlight,
etc,
and-
and
I
think
the
point
is
well
taken-
that
we
need
some
more
trees
in
the
downtown
area
as
well.
So
I
just
want
to
ask
that
question
if
it's
been
considered.
Q
We
had
put
that
up
there
as
a
we
were
going
to
you
know
we
developed
the
designs
of
these
a
little
bit.
There
was
going
to
be
a
mechanical.
Our
mechanical
equipment
was
going
to
be
in
in
that
little
room
as
well.
That
would
provide
you
with
a
a
rooftop
access
for
a
portion
of
each
roof,
not
not
the
entire
roof,
but
a
portion
of
each
roof
would
would
have
offered
the
students
a
chance
to
go
up
and
and
enjoy
that.
Q
But
I
think
we've
come
to
the
conclusion
that
you
know
that,
although
it
you
would
not
see
that,
as
you
were
driving
down
university
avenue,
it's
marginally,
I
think
two
or
three
feet
higher
than
the
ridge
of
the
of
the
terrace,
but
that
was
been
one
suggestion.
We've
talked
about
with
the
owner
to
sort
of
formally
keep
the
building
lower.
Our
to
be
quite
honest
with
my
preference
of
these
two
proposals
is
the
second
one.
Q
Q
As
far
as
trees
are
concerned,
I
mean
it
was
our
intention
to
to
make
that
courtyard
quite
green
was
to
plant
trees,
and
I
thought
the
illustration
maybe
the
illustrations
that
presented
don't
well.
Sometimes
the
trees
can
get
in
the
way
in
the
illustrations
of
illustrating
the
building,
but
the
I
think
you
know
we
have
absolutely
intend
to
to
green
those
courtyards,
and
we
would,
you
know,
try
and
do
it
in
a
way
that
the
courtyards
that
that
that
the
trees
would
survive
there.
Q
This
is
a
student
building
as
far
as
comments
like
the
you
know,
garbage
and
recycling-
that's
a
that's.
A
sort
of
that
would
be
that
will
come
up
in
the
planning
review
of
this
proposal,
but
we're
you
know
very
aware
that
those
streets
are
subject
to
a
lot
of
problems
with
with
that
sort
of
thing,
and
we
would
want
to
have
a
protocol
designed
into
this
project
that
would
address
that
concern
just
going
through
some
of
your
comments
here,
the
the
massing
of
the
building.
Q
I
we
have
a
you
know.
Perhaps
it
would
be
we're
showing
you
images
of
the
building
when
you,
when
you
step
into
that
courtyard,
the
renderings
tend
to
make
the
buildings
a
little
bigger
than
they
actually
will
be
perceived
by
the
eye.
So
it
might
be
a
good
idea
if
we
gave
you
a
little
more
kind
of
illustration
of
of
the
you
know
the
actual
physical
massing
that
these
buildings
present
the
this
there's
been
some
suggestion
about
expanding
the
buildings,
the
existing
terrace
buildings
to
the
rear.
Q
You
know
providing
more
capacity
in
those
buildings.
A
couple
of
just.
I
just
want
to
point
this
out
to
inform
your
sort
of
evaluation
of
these
proposals
when
we
we're
subject
by
building
code
to
limiting
distance
requirements.
So
when
we
expand
the
two
buildings
on
on
you
know,
242
or
sorry,
234
and
242
the
end
units,
we
would
not
be
able
to
put.
Q
Large
or
any
kind
of
good
size
windows
on
the
north
or
south
facades,
the
south
facade
of
234,
sorry
234
in
the
north
facade
of
242,
I
might
have
that
backwards,
but
the
the
windows
facing
the
adjacent
yards
would
have
to
be
quite
small
or
almost
non-existent
if
those
two
buildings
were
expanded
to
the
rear.
There
have
been
proposals
put
forth
on
this
property
to
sort
of
combine
all
these
units
into
one
massive.
Q
Q
We
do
have
we
are
subject
to,
of
course,
we're
gonna
we're
getting
comments
regarding
the
kind
of
practical
design
of
the
project.
There
are
some
issues
when
talking
to
fire
department
about
access
for
firefighting,
garbage
and
recycling
removal
that
has
come
up.
You
know,
so
we
are
aware
of
these
things.
Q
Q
You
know
it's
sort
of
more
rigidly
rhythmic
than
the
than
the
facade
or
than
the
original
building,
but
we
we
do
see
it
as
a
subordinate
building
and
is
obviously
distinctive
in
terms
of
its
architectural
design.
You
know,
there's
no
question
that
it's
a
you
know
it
is
not
trying
to
copy
anything.
It
is
it's
building
standing
on
its
own,
but
it
does
have
that
rhythm,
that
the
sort
of
an
abstraction
of
the
rhythm
of
the
building
on
the
original
terrace
building
on
university
avenue.
Q
Q
M
Yeah,
thank
you,
mr
chair,
and
through
you
I'll,
try
and
make
it
real.
Well,
I
will
make
it
really
short.
I
guess
my
concern
and
mr
zabak.
I
certainly
appreciate
your
your
your
concept.
It's
it's
a
very
interesting
one.
My
larger
concern,
I
guess
with
the
larger
picture,
is
if
this
goes
forward,
are,
are
other
applications
going
to
come
almost
every
month
from
others
around
that
area
in
particular,
and
the
next
thing
we
know
we've
got
infills
going
and
infills.
M
Yes,
I
I
understand
infills,
but
the
next
thing
we
know
we've
got
nothing
but
very
few
trees
and
we've
got
no
parking
and
queen
students
like
their
vehicles.
I
realize
there's
a
lot
of
students
that
don't
have
vehicles,
but
there's
a
lot
to
do
and
where
do
those
cars
go,
does
queen
suddenly
just
level
a
block
and
to
make
a
gigantic
parking
lot
anyway,
all
I
could
go
on,
but
I
won't
it's
12
30.
M
O
Yes
thanks:
I
just
had
a
question
about
the
parallel
version.
I'm
assuming
then
that
you
can't
actually,
if
you
are
going
to
say,
take,
have
garbage
in
the
back
and
take
it
through.
You
have
to
bring
everything
through
the
house
or
the
unit
to
get
it
out
to
the
front
of
the
street,
and
I
it
it's
like
those
the
backs
of
those
houses
really
don't
have
much
access.
There's
no
lane
way
back
there,
there's!
No!
K
O
B
Okay,
well,
thank
you
all
for
your
comments
ray
thank
you
for
your
time
and
no
doubt
you've
got
lots
to
think
about
and
no
doubt
we'll
see
you
back
again
soon
all
right.
Thank
you.
Good
you're,
very
welcome.
Okay.
That
brings
us
down
to
working
group
reports
and
I
see
two
sets
of
minutes
from
the
heritage.
Kingston
review
working
group,
and
I
believe
we
have
to
accept
those
is
that
right.
Madam
clerk.
B
Look
for
a
mover
and
a
seconder
to
accept
the
two
sets
of
minutes
from
their
heritage.
Kingston
review
working
group
moved
by
don
taylor
seconded
by
donald
mitchell,
any
discussion,
questions
or
anything
on
those
seeing
none
then
ask
you
to
vote
in
favor
aye
or
thank
you,
ted
or
opposed,
and
that
is
carried
by
the
seven
who
are
still
with
us
emergency
approvals.
B
H
Thank
you
and
for
you,
mr
character,
very
quick.
I
just
wanted
to
share
with
the
committee
that
paul
robertson
city
curator
will
be
receiving
award
an
award
this
evening
from
the
kingston
historical
society
for
his
service
over
the
course
of
his
career
in
many
facets
in
the
city
and
his
work,
to
kind
of
preserve
and
conserve
the
history
and
heritage
of
kingston.
So.
H
I
know
many
of
you
do
know
paul,
and
so
he
will
be
receiving
that
word
this
evening.
We're
very
excited
for
him
and
very
supportive
of
his
selection,
and
then
I
also
just
wanted
to
drive
to
the
committee's
attention
that
next
week
is
heritage
week
in
ontario,
so
staff
are
certainly
going
to
be
providing
some
updates
over
social
media
about
that
week,
but
just
sharing
that
with
committee
members
in
case
your
spheres
of
interaction
and
influence,
you
wanted
to
find
time
to
celebrate
heritage
next
week
is
officially
set
aside
for
that
purpose
in
ontario.
H
B
That's
all
for
me
and
thank
you
so
much.
Okay.
Thank
you
very
much
other
business
that
members
want
to
come
up
with
and
seeing
none.
There
are
correspondents
there
from
the
ontario
heritage,
trust
and
more
on
240
university,
which
brings
us
down
to
the
next
meeting
wednesday
march,
the
16th
9
30.,
and
unless
somebody
has
got
something
that
they've
been
overlooked
for
look
for
a
mover
to
adjourn.