►
Description
Heritage Kingston meeting from July 5, 2017. For the full meeting agenda visit https://goo.gl/KtKn3x
A
Good
morning,
everyone
we
now
have
quorum
and
we
will
begin.
Thank
you
a
special.
Thank
you,
personal,
thank
you
to
the
members
who
did
appear
today.
I
know
it's
a
beautiful
day
outside
and
people
might
have
other
things
to
do,
but
we
do
have
quorum.
Thank
you
very
much.
Hopefully
we
can
get
through
the
agenda
before
lunchtime
and
we
can
still
enjoy
the
day.
So
first
we
have.
A
The
approval
of
the
agenda
that
you
see
here
in
the
package-
it
has
the
usual
items-
usual
placeholder
items,
all
most
of
which
are
empty
and
then
the
only
place
we've
got
business
is
under
statutory
business
and
there's
a
couple
of
reports
from
working
groups.
There
are
no
briefings
and
no
public
meetings
or
anything
like
that.
There's
anyone
want
to
move
the
agenda
moved
by
Councillor
Schell
seconded
by
dawn,
and
he
proposed
changes
to
the
agenda.
I'd.
B
B
A
C
A
We
just
move
by
dawn
that
we
add
an
item
under
other
business,
need
a
seconder
and
then
we'll
just
vote
it
in
second
it
by
Peter
all
those
in
favor
opposed,
and
that
carries
so
that's
under
other
business.
We
have
an
item
now.
Any
other
proposed
changes.
Okay
will
approve
the
agenda
as
with
that
addition,
all
those
in
favor
and
that
carries
I'm.
Just
make
a
note.
A
A
A
So
the
clerk
has
brought
to
my
attention
that,
because
we're
meeting
this
is
our
regular
time,
but
counsels
schedule
has
changed
and
counsel
is
actually
meeting
next
week,
which
is
six
days
from
now.
We've
missed
the
deadline
for
the
agenda,
so
it
needs
to
go
in
the
end.
Everything
we
do
today
has
to
go
on
the
addendum
for
Council
on
Tuesday
or
be
delayed
by
another
month.
So
we
need
a
motion
to.
A
A
D
Thank
You
mr.
chair.
Yes,
so
this
application
pertains
to
the
property
at
250,
Main
Street
in
Barry
field,
it's
located
on
the
east
side
of
Main
Street,
south
of
the
junction
of
Main
and
fifteen
and
north
of
Wellington.
It
contains
a
contemporary
Georgian
two-story
five
base,
I
gable
dwelling
that
was
constructed
in
2010,
it's
designated
under
part
five
as
part
of
the
Heritage
Conservation
District,
but
it's
a
non
heritage.
Building.
D
This
application
has
been
submitted
to
request
permission
to
undertake
a
number
of
landscaping,
modifications
in
the
front
yard
and
including
the
construction
of
a
raised
front
patio
with
a
low
sitting
wall
featuring
limestone,
limestone
lake
precast,
concrete
pavers,
as
well
as
a
variety
of
soft
landscaping,
features,
including
some
planter
beds
and
some
new
trees.
The
new
new
owners
of
this
property
have
indicated
that
the
scale
of
this
house
is
very
imposing
from
the
street
and
that
it
lacks
the
same
heritage
character.
D
So
this
property
is
a
non
heritage
building
in
the
district,
and
it
sits
on
top
of
a
small
hill
sloping
down
to
Main
Street.
The
main
dwelling
get
as
a
gives,
an
imposing
sense
of
scale,
that's
out
of
character
with
the
district
and
the
property
currently
has
very,
very
little
landscaping
in
the
front
yard,
so
any
landscaping
and
vegetation
undergoes
change,
constantly
seasonally
and
as
it
matures.
D
However,
it's
often
the
most
dynamic
and
memorable
feature
in
a
cultural
landscape,
so
alterations
to
landscape
can
have
a
negative
effect
on
the
understanding
and
appreciation
of
the
character
of
the
district
and
surrounding
heritage
properties.
Section
2
of
the
district
plan
specifically
describes
historic
views
along
Main
Street,
the
historic
transportation
route,
as
framed
by
a
range
of
built
and
natural
features,
as
an
important
contextual
attribute
of
the
district.
D
The
goals
and
objectives
of
section
3
of
the
plan
focus
on
conserving,
but
also
enhancing
important
views
and
landscape
features,
and
although
this
application
is
to
install
new
landscape
elements,
the
proposal
meets
the
intent
of
these
goals
and
objectives,
as
it
relates
to
the
enhancement
of
the
cultural
heritage,
value
of
the
district
3,
respectful
and
complimentary
development,
and
this
proposal
will
have
no
negative
impacts
on
the
significant
views
down.
Main
Street
or
any
identified
attributes
of
the
district
section.
2
of
the
plan
also
describes
the
heritage.
Value
of
the
district.
D
D
Section
4/7
in
relation
to
walls
in
particular,
recommends
similar
that
similar
patterns
found
in
the
district
should
be
used
for
guidance
and
inspiration,
and,
as
I
mentioned,
the
applicant
has
submitted
a
streetscape
study
of
similar
designed
elements
found
in
the
district
on
which
their
landscaping
plan
has
been
based
and,
as
such,
this
project
meets
the
intent
of
Section
four
seven
of
the
plan
in
relation
to
non
heritage
buildings.
The
plan
notes
it's
important
to
retain
a
green
setting
for
buildings
and
lawns
landscaped
areas
in
walkways.
D
It
recommends
replanting
of
the
same
species
in
the
district
in
order
to
ensure
landscape
components
will
continue
to
contribute
to
the
value
of
the
district
over
time
section.
Four:
seven
one
notes
that
soft
landscaping
should
be
maximized,
provided
it
doesn't
obstruct
the
views
of
the
buildings
from
the
street.
D
Htd
plan
also
recommends
concrete,
flagstone
or
pavers
as
suitable
materials
for
landscaping,
as
long
as
they
don't
overwhelm
or
visually
compete
with
the
cohesive
appearance.
An
applicant
has
chosen
precast,
concrete
paver
stones,
which
will
have
a
similar
color
to
limestone,
which
is
the
material
typically
found
in
the
district.
D
D
Will
be
slightly
raised
and,
however,
staff
are
confident
that
when
the
property
is
backfilled
and
materials
are
introduced,
the
plant
materials
are
introduced.
Rather,
the
wall
will
blend
visually
with
the
property,
as
it
will
be
mostly
obscured.
So,
although
this
application
relates
to
an
infill
building
in
the
district,
it's
good
practice
to
uphold
widely
accepted
conservation
approaches
and
as
such,
Parks
Canada
standards
and
guidelines
does
recommend
introducing
rec
vegetation
to
ensure
the
value
of
places
preserved
by
planting
using
plantings
as
a
screen
of
new
construction.
D
D
So
the
the
district
plan
highlights
that
several
new
residences
have
been
built
in
the
district
as
sympathetic
infill,
and
this
property
is
one
of
those
and
they
are
sympathetic
and
material
and
style.
However,
out
of
character
and
massing
and
scale
and
staff
are
of
the
opinion
that
this
project
will
improve
the
appearance
of
the
property
has
seen
from
the
public
realm
and
so
upon.
A
Thank
You
Mackenzie,
so
the
clerk
has
reminded
me
of
the
procedure.
The
approved
procedure
4
part
5
after
the
introduction
members
are
asked
if
their
comments
that
they
made
in
are
captured
accurately
in
the
report.
So
that's
the
stage
we
go
first
and
then
its
members
in
public,
including
the
applicant
of
the
applicants
agent,
get
to
speak
and
then
we,
as
committee
members,
get
a
chance
to
comment.
And/Or,
ask
questions
of
staff
and
that
and
then
we
vote,
that's
the
that's
what's
in
order
for
an
application
of
this
nature.
A
So,
first
of
all,
anyone
that
made
comments
in
is,
if
your
comments
were
not
captured
accurately,
you
have
a
chance
to
correct
them
now,
seeing
none
now
we'll
go
to
members
of
the
public,
including
the
applicant
or
the
applicant
agent,
and
anyone
like
to
speak.
Please
come
forward
turn
on
the
microphone
stage.
Name
I,.
E
Thank
you
mr.
chair
Frank,
Dixon
of
Limassol
resident,
thank
you
for
the
presentation,
very
well
done
and
very
good
report
as
well
I'm
in
favor
of
the
project.
It
looks
really
good
just
a
couple
of
small
questions.
Looking
at
the
illustration
on
page
33
top
half,
it
was
one
of
the
slides
on
the
show,
as
well
just
for
showing
the
finished
outcome
as
envisioned
at
this
point
we're
just
talking
about
the
tree.
E
A
D
A
F
G
The
question
yeah
my
I'm,
the
landscaper
involved
in
this
and
my
rendering
program
is
more
for
the
hardscape.
So
if
you
notice
I
didn't
really
get
the
slope
on
that
yeah.
This
is
just
a
concept,
so
it
would
only
it
would
be
one
of
the
ones
off
of
the
list
there
and,
if
I
remember
correctly,
I
believe
it
was
in
the
ornamental,
pear,
family
and
yeah.
It
wouldn't
be
that
big
and
imposing
its
other
scale,
but
unfortunately
they
said
the
program
only
does
the
hardscape
very
nicely.
The
plants
are
basically
non
generic
type
things.
A
Thank
you
essentially,
the
the
computer
rendering
can
be
quite
inaccurate
and
suggestive
in
ways
that
it
wasn't
meant
to
be.
Thank
you
so
now
we're
at
the
point
where
committee
members
get
to
add
any
comments
or
arouse
questions.
Your
comments
will
be
captured
in
the
minutes
and
included
in
the
report
to
Council
Jamie
I.
C
Just
want
to
say,
I
think
this
is
a
great
way
forward
for
this
property.
I've
always
thought
in
terms
of
a
new
build
and
bury
field.
It's
one
of
the
more
problematic
buildings
that
have
gotten
in
and
I
think
this
landscaping
and
the
justification
behind
it
and
the
proposed
plans
are
a
great
way
to
remedy
the
unsympathetic
features
and
to
blend
it
in
I.
Think
it's
that's
going
to
improve
the
property
and
the
whole
village
a
lot.
C
H
D
A3,
mr.
chair,
yes,
actually
the
work
has
already
started
this.
The
construction
was
brought
to
staffs
attention
after
the
work
had
already
begun
and
because
the
owner
is
a
new
owner,
they
weren't
really
fully
aware
of
the
process,
and
so
we
were
able
to
work
with
the
applicant
to
go
through
the
permit
process.
For
this.
H
Thank
you
and
then
the
just
a
comment,
and
that
is
to
do
with
the
green
space.
I
think
that
it
it
would
be
wonderful
to
have
plantings
and
so
on
in
there,
but
II
do
think.
It's
really
important
to
maintain
the
green
space
so
to
just
to
you
know
as
a
recommendation
to
make
sure
that
there
is
plenty
of
grass
that
remains.
B
B
I
hope
the
landscaping
tries
to
be
consistent
with
berry
field
sort
of
style,
which
I
would
say,
tends
to
be
rather
informal
rather
than
formal,
and
includes
lots
of
green
grass
rather
than
mulched
areas,
open,
gravel,
mulch
areas
and
the
other
point
is
I.
Guess:
there's
some
concern
about
the
visibility
of
the
stone
patio,
so
I'd
certainly
recommend
evergreen
shrubbery
in
front
of
the
South
walls,
to
help
break
that
up
and
and
show
that.
A
A
So
to
really
consider
the
species
also
be
chosen
for
its
durability
on
a
slope
and
an
exposed
setting
like
this,
because
I've
seen
many
trees
planted
on
slopes
that
that
don't
thrive
or
just
die
because
of
the
these
considerations
not
being
taken
into
account
and
I'm
sure.
As
a
landscaper,
you
understand
what
I'm
talking
about
other
than
that
I.
Think
it's
great
that
this
is
happening
and
has
been
has
been
pointed
out.
A
A
So
that
heritage
Kingstown
supports
Council's
approval,
the
following
that
alterations
to
the
property
at
250
means
to
be
approved
and
accordance
to
the
details
describing
the
application
which
was
deemed
complete
on
June
15th
with
said
alterations
to
include
a
number
of
landscaper
modifications
within
the
front
yard,
including
a
front
patio
and
planting
beds,
subject
to
the
following
conditions.
There
are
five
conditions
you
can
see
them
in
the
package.
That
is
the
recommendation
and
it
is
of
course,
councils
final
decision.
A
This
is
our
recommendation
to
Council
all
those
who
are
need,
a
mover
and
a
seconder,
sorry
move
by
Katherine,
secular
by
Liz,
all
those
in
favor
opposed,
and
that
carries
good
luck.
Next,
we
have
another
heritage.
Permit
application
this
one
for
28,
Wellington
Street
in
Sydenham
staff,
get
set
up
here.
D
All
right,
Thank
You
mr.
chair
and
this
application
relates
to
the
property
at
28
Wellington
Street,
it's
located
on
the
northwest
side
of
Wellington
between
gore
and
Lord
Union
Street,
and
it
contains
one
half
of
a
two
and
a
half
story,
symmetrical
red
brick
house
with
a
bell
curved
mansard
roof
and
a
two-story
front.
Porch.
The
building
was
constructed
in
1878
designated
under
part
5
as
part
of
the
old
Sydenham
Conservation
District,
and
this
application
has
been
submitted
to
requests
permission
to
reconstruct
the
recently
removed
two-story
front
porch.
D
The
newly
constructed
porch
will
be
in
similar
style
to
the
abutting
porch
at
26
Wellington
Street,
the
porch
at
26
Wellington,
recently
received
Heritage
Act
approval
to
include
the
removal
of
the
second-story
roof
in
place
of
an
open-air
balcony.
The
porch
on
the
subject.
Property
was
deemed
to
be
structurally
unsound
by
an
engineer
and
was
accordingly
removed.
By
way
of
an
emergency
approval,
original
photos
of
the
entrance
ports
porch
have
been
included
as
Exhibit
A.
D
This
was
the
original
porch.
The
owner
has
submitted
drawings
and
concept
sketches,
as
well
as
paint
samples
which
are
included
in
the
report
as
well,
and
the
applicant
has
preserved
and
refurbished
the
upper
storey
columns
for
reuse
on
the
ground
floor
and
will
reinstate
the
railings
following
their
repair.
Although
both
the
upper
and
lower
columns
were
originally
salvaged,
it
was
found
that
only
one
set
could
be
repaired
and
thus
the
applicant
has
proposed
to
install
simple
square
section
post
at
the
second
storey.
D
This
property
is
included
in
the
district
plan,
the
old
Sydenham
district
plan
and
the
property
evaluation
notes
it
as
a
significant
property
in
the
district.
It
was
designed
by
joseph
power,
one
of
Kingston's,
prominent
local
architects,
and
the
evaluation
identifies
the
pair
of
porches
as
character.
Defining
elements,
and
the
evaluation
also
notes
that
the
building
is
bold
in
appearance,
a
feature
emphasized
by
its
flat,
facade,
high
foundation
and
symmetrical
features.
D
D
This
property
is
located
in
the
north
to
Baggett
sub
area,
and
the
plan
provides
that
the
view
of
city
park
from
Wellington
and
the
reflected
vistas
along
Wellington
is
an
important
contextual
attribute
of
this
sub
area.
This
proposal
will
not
impact
the
views
of
the
park
or
the
vistas
and
is
accordingly
consistent
with
the
objectives
of
the
district
plan.
D
As
per
section
two
point,
six
point:
two
of
the
district
plan,
removal
or
replacement
of
character.
Defining
elements
is
discouraged
within
a
designated
property
unless
absolutely
necessary.
Section.
Four
434
of
the
plan
provides
policies
that
specifically
relate
to
porches
and
brando's
and
notes
that
original
versions
should
be
retained
and
further.
This
section
notes
that
in
cases
where
removal
cannot
be
avoided
original
porch
details,
details
should
be
replaced
with
new
wood
components
that
are
appropriately
treated
for
exposure
to
the
exterior
elements.
D
The
applicant,
a
relatively
new
owner
to
this
building
undertook
a
thorough
investigation
of
the
condition
of
the
porch,
including
seeking
an
assessment
by
a
structural
engineer
prior
to
contacting
planning
staff,
and
the
engineer's
assessment
demonstrated
that
the
porch
was
no
longer
safe
and
the
applicant
went
through
the
required
permit
process
to
have
it
removed
quickly
and
carefully.
Ensuring
that
as
much
original
material
was
as
much
as
much
original
material
as
possible
was
preserved
and
repaired
in
order
to
incorporate
it
into
the
reconstruction.
D
And
in
these
ways
the
proposal
met
the
intent
of
the
policies
and
objectives
of
the
district
plan.
Now
having
removed
with
the
porch,
the
applicant
is
requesting
permission
to
reconstruct
reconstruct
the
porch
in
a
slightly
modified
design
for
the
second-story
balcony,
which
incorporates
many
of
the
original
salvaged
materials.
The
applicant
is
occurring
proposing
to
reinstate
the
upper.
D
Additionally,
the
Heritage
Conservation
District
plan
notes
that
portrait
should
be
restored
only
after
finding
documentary
evidence
of
the
original
appearance
and
five-to-one
recommends
that
alterations
be
based
on
an
assessment
that
differentiates
differentiates
original
construction
from
subsequent
additions.
So
staff
and
the
applicant
have
no
archival
images
of
the
front
porch
that
can
be
referenced
for
clues
as
to
the
original
design.
However,
it's
evident
from
the
location
of
the
roof
of
the
porch
over
the
second-story
balcony
that
it
was
likely
not
original.
As
once,
the
porch
had
been
removed.
D
The
intricate
bracket
and
soffit
details,
Neath
the
roof
were
revealed
and
staff
are
of
the
opinion
that
the
applicants
proposal
to
rebuild
the
porch
without
that
second-story
roof
would
reinstate
the
previously
hidden
brackets
and
cornice
features
which
meets
the
intent
of
the
district
plan.
Such
staff
support
the
proposed
reconstruction
without
the
pedimental
roof.
D
D
Notes
that
within
the
district
there's
a
visual
sense
of
coherence-
and
this
can
be
attributed
to
elements
such
as
color,
the
district
plan
is
varied,
but
it's
can
be
described
as
visually
unified
by
by
color,
and
the
proposal
will
not
detract
from
that.
Visual
coherence
of
the
area
and
its
design
massing
and
choice
of
color
is
consistent
with
that
which
is
found
in
the
district
section.
D
It
also
defines
compatibility
as
capable
of
existing
in
harmony
and
without
adverse
impact
on
existing
purport
proposed
development
and
further
notes
that
it
should
be
based
on
elements
such
as
aesthetics
and
recommends,
looking
looking
to
other
properties
for
examples
and
staff,
we're
unable
to
find
examples
of
black
porches.
However,
there
are
examples
of
dark
brown
and
dark
grey
porches,
as
well
as
many
black
detailed
features
such
as
trim
throughout
the
district.
D
So,
given
that
the
property
already
has
black
details
and
trim,
staff
are
of
the
opinion
that
having
the
porch
match
will
be
in
keeping
with
the
character
of
the
property,
the
proposal
is
also
considered
compatible
in
design
and
the
use
of
color,
with
the
abutting
property
being
the
other
half
of
the
double
house.
This
abutting
unit
has
a
white
color
scheme
and
the
use
of
black
within
the
subject
property
will
provide
contrast
between
the
two
supporting
the
bold
appearance,
the
characteristics
described
in
the
property
evaluation.
D
The
applicant
also
intends
to
refurbish
the
stone
column
basis
to
achieve
a
natural-looking
state
by
either
restoring
the
veneer
or
repainting
in
the
natural
gray
color.
The
plan
generally
discouraged
discourages
painting
masonry,
however,
given
that
these
bases
are
likely
not
original
and
currently
painted,
Brown
staffer
of
the
opinion
that
these
either
of
these
approaches
are
appropriate.
The
proposal
also
involves
reinstating
the
refurbished
wood
columns
on
top
of
a
flat
aluminum
base,
which
would
sit
on
top
of
these
at
the
existing
faux
columns
in
order
to
ensure
long
turns
long
term.
D
D
Another
member
suggested
that
the
applicant
consider
using
rounded
tops
or
balls
for
the
posts
on
the
upper
deck,
noting
that
they
probably
weren't
originally
flat.
He
noted
that,
while
the
neighbours
posts
are
flat,
there
was
an
intention
to
rebuild
the
second-story
roof.
However,
that's
unlikely
to
happen
now
and
staff
have
forward.
This
is
the
suggestion
to
the
applicant,
however,
given
the
symmetry
of
this
building
as
a
character
attribute
staff
support
the
flat
tops,
as
proposed.
D
A
A
A
J
Good
morning,
mr.
chair
and
members
of
the
committee
I'm
Paul
Sutherland
I'm,
the
owner
of
28
Wellington
Street
with
my
wife,
and
we
lived
there
without
a
four
children
and
have
done
the
last
four
years.
So,
first
of
all,
Thank
You
Mackenzie
for
summarizing
the
history
of
this
application
and
the
design
involved
can
I.
Ask
you
Mackenzie.
Would
you
be
kind
enough
pleased
to
return
the
slide
of
the
neighboring
porch
at
26,
Wellington
Street,
because
I
really
just
wanted
to
highlight
three
or
four
aspects
of
the
application?
J
And
the
first
is
about
the
striking
similarities
of
the
design
and
process
that
we're
going
through
to
that
which
was
undertaken
at
26,
because
one
point
that
I'm
not
sure
was
highlighted
was
this
the
26
Wellington
Street
porch,
as
you
see
it
there
and
now
was
constructed
last
year,
and
until
then
they
had
the
same
full
two-story,
porch,
so
double-height
porch.
That
goes
right
up
to
the
parapet
in
the
same
way
that
ours
did
until
it
was
taken
down.
J
Last
month,
and
after
extensive
consultation
and
research,
they
decided
to
modify
the
design
to
this
shorter
single
story
with
a
balcony
design,
and
it
was
highlighted
at
the
time
and
I
think
it's
an
important
aspect
of
that
choice
of
design.
But
it's
very
clear
from
the
existence
of
the
parapet
detailing
on
both
houses
that,
when
rigidly
constructed
these
houses
probably
had
the
shorter
version
of
the
porch
and
that
the
full
two-story
porch
is
a
later
change.
J
They
also
found
that
the
only
way
to
reuse
them
and
provide
some
longevity
for
the
columns
and
the
structure
was
to
obtain
bespoke
aluminum
bases
for
the
columns
and
we've
gone
to
the
same
supplier
and
they're,
using
exactly
the
same
aluminum
bases
they
chose
to
restore
as
best
they
could
what's
been
described
as
the
faux
stone,
concrete
columns
and
our
concrete
columns
underneath
the
pane
appeared
to
be
exactly
the
same,
and
we
proposed
to
do
exactly
the
same
as
I've
done
to
those
concrete
bases.
So
in
terms
of
the
choice
of
materials.
J
I,
think
that
covers
everything
except
that
they've
reused,
all
of
their
old
handrails
and
we're
doing
the
same.
So
far
as
we're
able
to
there
are
a
couple
of
lengths
that
need
to
be
rebuilt
and
they
will
be
rebuilt
to
exactly
the
same
profile
as
the
old
ones,
so
we're
very
much
hoping
that
the
Harmony
that
will
be
provided
with
an
almost
identical
porch
to
the
one
on
the
mirror
image
property.
But
that
will
be
appealing
and
acceptable
to
members
of
the
committee.
Now.
J
The
other
aspect
I
wanted
to
mention
to
address
is
the
choice
of
colors
because
that's
been
commented
upon
at
least
once
so.
I
really
wanted
to
highlight
three
points
on
that.
The
first
is
to
emphasize
the
care
that
we've
taken
in
choosing
that
color
scheme
I'm
lucky
in
that
my
wife
who
lives
with
me.
Jen's
story
of
Jen's
story
designs
is
a
local
designer
and
has
been
a
designer
in
Kingston
for
over
10
years,
she's
worked
with
a
number
of
heritage
projects,
including
exteriors
and
perhaps
you'll.
J
Remember
the
development
in
Prague
Princess
Street
between
Paris
and
Wellington,
in
which
a
large
three-story
building
was
restored
to
its
original
exposed
limestone.
It's
the
Rogers
communications
building
in
the
ceramic
building.
Now
she
was
a
designer
for
that
project
and
Jen
spoke
with
McKenzie
a
number
of
neighbours
and
ultimately
decided
that
the
right
color
scheme
and
her
preferred
color
scheme
and
mine
is
a
black
and
gray
scheme
and
there's
really
two
principal
reasons
for
that.
One
is
as
you'll
see
from
the
photo
virtually
all
of
our
trim
at
28.
J
Wellington
Street
is
black
and
it
has
been
so
for
decades,
because
I
person
had
to
work
on
some
of
the
paint
work
around
those
windows
and
dormers,
and
there
are,
there
is
layer
after
layer
of
black
paint.
So
that's
an
established,
color
feature
of
the
property,
and
we
consider
that
having
a
principally
black
with
accents
of
gray
scheme
will
complement
and
be
harmonious
with
that
existing
scheme
and
the
other
aspect
of
the
color
choice
that
I
wanted
to
address
was
the
the
point
about
historical
accuracy.
J
Now
the
restoration
workshop,
that's
in
the
course
of
working
on
the
columns
at
the
moment,
has
stripped
them
as
far
as
possible.
Down
to
the
original
word,
and
in
the
course
of
that,
they
have
told
me
that
they
found
about
16
different
colors
of
paint
on
the
columns,
the
first
six
or
so
appear
to
have
been
various
shades
of
red
from
bright
red
to
dark
red
and
then
the
following
six
were
different
shades
of
yellow
light,
yellow,
maybe
yellow
and
so
on,
and
then
in
recent
years
it
appears
to
have
been
largely
orange.
J
Very
many
of
the
properties
have
the
predominant
color
of
black,
but
there
are
so
many
different
shades
of
dark
gray,
prat,
dark
brown
and
black
that
we
consider
that's
the
important
feature
and
that's
why
we
feel
that
it's
not
inappropriate
at
all
to
have
a
black
and
gray
scheme
on
this
property.
Ultimately,
I'd
remind
you
that,
of
course,
it's
a
subjective
matter
and
remind
you
that
we've
taken
a
lot
of
care
in
choosing
that,
and
it's
also
something
that's
relatively
transient.
J
The
thought
and
care
that
we've
taken
in
the
design,
they're,
obviously
important,
because
they're
going
to
be
there
for
a
long
time,
I
very
much
hope.
Another
50
or
100
years,
at
least
but
the
color.
If
someone
comes
in
after
me
in
a
few
years
time
and
doesn't
like
it,
it
may
change
subjects
of
this
committees.
Approval.
Of
course.
A
A
H
A
Yeah
I'm,
just
sorry,
sorry,
it's
just
the.
If
you
don't
not
speak
into
a
microphone,
it
can't
be
captured
in
two
minutes.
Also,
the
questions
that
are
an
order
are
questions
to
staff,
but
also
regarding,
what's
in
the
district
pen
regarding
the
color
scheme,
the
anything
furtive
that
you
can,
you
can
have
a
conversation
with
the
applicant
after
the
meeting,
but
it
isn't
what
would
go
in
there
in
the
report
to
Council
it.
A
B
K
B
Upper
they
pillar
is
on
the
or
the
columns
on
the
upper
story.
Probably
shouldn't
be
laughter
flat,
but
I
think
just
to
repeat,
they
were
left
there
and
flat
on
the
other
property,
because
there
was
a
hope
that
some
day
the
the
upper
story
would
be
restored,
but
I
don't
think,
there's
any
need
to
feel
that
it
should
be
restored.
B
I
think
it's
clear
that
the
upper
story
was
not
original,
and
probably
there
was
a
just
one
story:
porch
to
begin
with,
so
I
think
that's
really
a
dead
issue
and
it's
also
an
advantage
in
the
sense
that
it
reveals
the
brackets
in
the
cornice
at
the
roofline
as
well.
So
that
being
said,
it
also
seems
sensible
to
consider
instead
of
having
those
three
posts
on
the
upper
story
to
just
have
one
corner
post,
because
the
three
posts
are
really
a
kind
of
statement
of
it.
B
You
know
that
this
is
really
part
of
a
second
story,
and
that's
no
longer
the
case,
so
you
could
consider
just
having
one
post
on
the
upper
level.
So
that's
one
point
and,
as
I
said,
probably
flat
top
is
not
the
best
design.
It
could
be
sort
of
pointed
or
a
pyramidal
or
or
a
ball
shaped
or
sphere
shape
on
top
offense.
I
B
A
little
surprised
by
the
use
of
the
aluminum
plate
or
plinth
I
guess
you
might
call
it
I'm
a
little
I'm,
not
familiar
with
that,
haven't
come
across
that
before
personally
I'm,
not
convinced
that
it
will
do
any
good.
The
problem
with
the
deterioration
of
these
columns
is
that
moisture
works
its
way
into
the
into
the
base
and
weather
well.
B
Setting
the
pillar
on
an
aluminum
plate
doesn't
prevent
water
from
working
its
way
into
the
base
of
the
column.
So
it
means
that
the
base
itself
will
not
deteriorate.
So
that's
a
step
forward,
I
suppose.
But
what
is
really
important
is
that
these
elements
be
protected
as
as
far
as
possible,
all
the
wooden
surfaces
should
be
painted
on
all
surfaces
before
they're
assembled
and
personally
I
would
suggest
caulking
very
carefully
the
under
level
of
the
pillars.
B
Water
will
not
penetrate,
but
other
people
have
probably
different
recipes
but-
and
you
know,
I'm
not
suggesting
that
I
know
I
know
all
the
answers
on
this,
but
that's
just
something
to
to
think
about.
Finally,
about
colors,
yeah
yeah
I
have
reservations
about
black
or
very
dark
colors
as
well.
I
mean
I.
Think
it's
unfortunate
that
26
Wellington,
the
porch
was
painted
such
say,
glaring,
white,
I'm,
sure
this
committee
did
not
approve
that,
but
that's
what's
there
now
and
I'm,
not
sure
what
the
best
solution
is.
You've
obviously
thought
carefully
about
these
colors.
B
A
Okay,
I
do
have
a
short
comment.
The
thing
that
was
striking
to
me
about
what
the
applicant
was
saying,
mr.
Sutherland,
is
that
the
existing
rebuilt
porch
of
his
neighbor
he's
inextricably
linked
to
that
to
that
design,
because
the
the
building
is
a
mirror
image
and
because
of
other
than
paint
details
and
and
small
other
details.
A
I
A
Staff
will
be
I've
already
spoken
a
little
bit
to
staff
in
the
hair
in
the
agenda
meeting
that
we
had
so
we'll
see
here,
but
the
introduction
and
then
we'll
you'll
notice
that
there
are
many
clauses
each
each
one
pertaining
to
a
specific
address
and
you'll
see
a
repetition
of
the
language.
Through
the
recommendations.
Very
long
recommendation
go
ahead
when
you're
ready.
L
We'll
just
skip
it.
Yes,
this
is
an
application
for
consultation
on
notice
of
intention
to
designate
seven
properties
that
are
here
before
you.
The
report
gives
you
information
on
the
background
and
reasons
for
designation
for
these
properties.
So
I
was
the
a
lot
of
these
have
been
originated
from
various
consulting
reports
over
the
years.
The
culture
heritage,
property
evaluation
that
was
done
a
couple
years
ago,
the
Williamsville
designation
project
in
2013
and
work
from
Jennifer
McKendree
in
Cataraqui
village
in
2011,
and
have
culminated
in
to
the
advancement
of
designations
for
these
various
properties.
L
Each
of
the
application
to
each
of
these
properties
were
evaluated
under
the
Ontario
regulation.
906,
which
is
the
criteria
for
designation
in
the
Heritage
Act,
and
the
physical
design
is
historical.
Associative
and
contextual
values
of
these
properties
were
evaluated
and
reviewed
by
both
the
consultants,
staff
and
and
the
heritage
property
working
group.
So,
to
start
with
each
of
these
draft
as
a
designation,
bylaws
and
the
north's
of
intents
are
in
your
agenda,
packets,
so
I'll
just
quickly
go
through
the
high
points.
I
won't
go
into
a
great
detail
on
each
one.
L
The
first
one
here
is
the
Bell
Telephone
building
at
in
Williamsville
at
4:50
princess
Street.
It
was
built
in
1941
to
accommodate
the
transition
from
operator
assisted
telephone
system
to
a
dial
operations,
and
it's
also
the
home
of
the
Kingston
office
of
the
Bell
Canada
company.
It's
a
model
modern,
classical
style
for
commercial
buildings
in
the
1930s
and
40s.
L
L
The
second
building
you
might
know
as
the
mansion.
It's
the
George
Newland
house
at
5:06,
Princess
Street.
This
one
was
built
in
1874.
It's
a
two
and
a
half
story,
Italianate
style,
brick
building.
It
was
built
for
a
local
contractor.
George
Newland,
in
association
with
his
architect,
John
power,
a
New,
Orleans
and
Power
have
tag-teamed
on
a
number
of
buildings
in
Kingston,
most
notably
the
the
work
on
the
Frontenac
County
Courthouse.
L
L
Next
door
or
two
doors
over
from
that
house
as
the
Birmingham
Hardy
house
at
5:20,
princess
Street,
also
Williamsville.
It
was
built
a
few
years
after
the
previous
one
in
1892,
this
one
was
built
for
the
Honorable
William
hardy,
who
was
a
prominent
businessman
and
politician
in
Kingston.
His
partner
and
brother-in-law
corneas,
Birmingham
operated
the
Canadian
locomotive,
an
engine
company
which
was
a
prominent
company
in
the
late
19th
and
early
20th
century,
and
again
it's
a
one
of
the
last
residences
along
princess
street.
L
From
that
era
from
an
earlier
era,
is
this
building
at
the
corner?
I
believe
it's
in
Nelson
and
Princess?
This
is
Carter's
grocery
at
635,
Princess
Street.
It
was
built
in
1873
for
Kingston
Penitentiary
guard
Thomas
Carter
and
his
wife
Marjorie,
who
Marjorie
the
his
wife,
ran
the
grocery
out
of
this
building
until
1913
and
and
it's
it's
stone.
Construction
and
its
prominence
on
Princess
Street
makes
it
a
landmark
as
well
changing
gears.
This
is
out
on
the
West
End
of
the
city
at
3737
princess.
L
This
is
known
as
Red
Rock
school
Red
Rock
was
an
early
name
for
the
village
of
Westbrook
and
in
this
limestone
schoolhouse
was
built
around
1850
and
and
was
built
to
serve
as
both
a
church
and
a
school
and
did
that
for
about
a
decade
before
the
the
Methodist
Church
was
built
in
in
Westbrook
in
this
is
another
schoolhouse.
This
one
is
in
Cataraqui
village,
the
former
Kotaku
village,
it's
at
nine
one,
one
thirty
s,
Mill
Road,
and
it's
known
as
Kettering
for
public
school
for
maricopa
school.
L
It
was
built
in
around
1869
and
it
was
designed
by
by
John
Power.
There
was
an
addition
added
about
a
decade
after
it
was
built
also
by
power
designs
by
power.
This
was
became
the
first
to
roam
schoolhouse
in
Kingston
Township
when
that
addition
was
built,
and
it's
a
landmark
in
this
village
and
also
helps
as
a
reminder
of
the
former
in
Syria.
And
finally,
this
is
the
just
Purdy
house
in
Elgin
burg,
on
two
two
six,
eight
Sydenham
Road.
L
It
is
an
early
built
before
1851.
It's
an
nineteenth-century,
Ontario
vernacular
frame
house.
There
aren't
too
many
frame
houses
on
this
city's
register,
so
this
is
sort
of
a
treat.
Jesse
Purdy
was
a
Wesleyan
Methodist
farmer
and
loyalist
who
built
the
house.
He
sold
it
to
Simon
Jackson
a
few
years
later,
who
his
family,
the
Jackson
family
owned
most
of
Elgin
burg
at
one
point,
and
this
building
is
right
on
Sydenham
Road
and
there's
a
prominent
landmark
in
that
area.
L
A
M
M
I
were
more
familiar
with
some
of
the
details.
I
would
be
able
to
answer
this
question
myself,
but
for
a
sorry,
506
princess
treat
the
the
Newlands
house
has
been
pretty
effectively
deformed
by
additions
and
whatnot.
When
this
designation
becomes
official,
does
it
protect
in
any
way
the
those
additions
to
the
place
which
are
not
mentioned,
which
have
nothing
to
do
with
the
with
the
original
design
of
the
Newlands
house?.
L
Thank
You
mr.
chair,
so
just
to
direct
the
committee's
attention
to
page
80
and
81
of
your
agenda
package.
Is
the
draft
designating
bylaw
for
this
particular
property
of
interest?
Is
the
culture
heritage
active
you
to
the
bottom
of
that
page
in
the
start
of
the
next
page?
So
those
are
the
for
lack
of
a
better
term
the
things
of
this
building
that
give
it
a
terra
touch,
value
items
that
aren't
included
on
that
list.
L
Typically
modern
editions,
modern
changes
to
it,
don't
add
to
the
value
of
the
property.
Mr.
chair,
and
it
doesn't
mean
that
changes
to
those
will
not
come
to
this
committee.
They
might,
depending
on
the
extent
of
them,
so
so
that
is
an
opportunity
to
to
have
have
input
on
how
those
changes
evolve,
but
they're
not
what
gives
the
property
its
value.
So
it's
not
something
that
we'd
be
looking
at
protecting
in
any
particular
way.
L
A
You
or
put
it
a
different
way,
the
once
the
property
is
designated,
the
whole
property
is
designated
may
trigger
a
heritage,
permit
application.
If
significant
changes
are
proposed
and
then
the
cultural
attributes
that
are
listed
in
the
designation
are
used
by
staff
and
this
committee
to
evaluate
the
proposed
changes.
M
Can
I
see
just
a
clarification,
then?
Certainly
there
is
nothing
to
to
suggest
in
the
the
page
80
81,
that
by
designating
features
which
are
characteristic
of
the
original
building,
that,
if
someone
wanted
to
restore
it
and
rip
down
some
of
the
stuff,
that's
been
added
that
it
would
be
more
difficult
to
do
that,
because
that
is
to
get
rid
of
some
of
the
more
recent
and
unsympathetic
accretions.
L
L
It's
something
that
we'd
all
get
a
hand
in
looking
at
and
and
considering
their
impacts
on
on
the
heritage
value
of
this
building,
so
I
wouldn't
make
this
a.
Would
make
it
difficult
if
it's
not
a
heritage
attribute,
then
certainly
it's
something
that
that
isn't
adding
to
the
value
of
the
building,
so
it's
it
could
be,
could
be
removed.
I
suppose,
yes,.
A
E
Thank
mr.
sheriff,
thank
you
to
mr.
berry
for
the
report
and
the
presentation
at
the
same
question
for
two
of
the
seven
items
there
on
there
and
and
I'm
just
gonna
sort
of
put
it
out
there.
Looking
at
the
Bell
building
450
princess
in
ends,
you
need,
despite
your
best
efforts,
you
can't
get
ahold
of
the
owner
right
I
mean,
does
Belle
still
own
the
building,
I'm
really
curious
about
that
mean.
It
is
currently
used
right.
E
It's
still
in
operation,
I'm,
really
curious
as
to
how
it
came
to
be
that
staff
weren't
able
to
contact
the
owner
and
then
I'll
go
on
the
same
question
with
the
520
princess
Street,
which
is
mean
there's
a
business
operating
there
right.
It's
a
hairstylist
place,
I
walk
by
there.
You
know
probably
four
five
times
a
week
and
it's
busy
it's
currently
operating
and
I'm
just
curious
as
to
how
it
came
to
be
that
staff
couldn't
get
ahold
of
the
owner
to
discuss
it.
Sure.
A
L
Thank
You
mr.
chair,
so
registered
mail
was
sent
to
the
registered
owner
of
each
of
these
properties.
It's
our
understanding
that
Bell
Canada
does
still
own
that
building
we,
so
we
assume
they've
received
it.
It
didn't
come
back
to
us.
We
have
a
number
of
contacts
at
Bell
which
we've
reached
out
to
with
varying
success.
As
far
as
Maison
Paul,
the
the
building,
the
Birmingham
Hardy
house
same
same
thing,
we've
sent
the
owner
registered
mail
and
and
I
have.
We
have
spoken
to
that
owner
on
a
couple
of
occasions
and
left
messages
on
others.
A
A
So,
as
I've
said,
it's
there's
14
clauses
repetitively
listing
the
the
30
day
notice
of
from
the
publication.
Then
that's
30
days,
I
clarified
this.
It's
30
days
from
the
from
the
time
it's
publicly
like
publicly
available,
so
there
is
a
30
day
period
for
each
one
and
then
there's
the
notice
of
intention
to
designate
clause
for
each
one
and
you'll
see
the
section
29
mentioned
on
in
each
of
these
causes
as
well.
A
D
Yes,
thank
you
mr.
chair.
This
report
is
for
the
heritage
property
grant
applications
for
four
properties
which
are
tied
to
heritage
permits
that
staff
have
reviewed
under
delegated
authority.
Several
of
the
properties
are
designated
under
part,
five
and
others
designated
under
part.
Four.
The
quotes
for
the
proposed
work
have
been
included
as
well
as
property
photographs.
As
part
of
this
report,
the
first
application
is
for
194
Kings
Street
East,
it's
located
on
the
northwest
side
of
King
Street
at
the
intersection
of
gore.
D
D
The
next
is
658
King,
Street
West,
it's
located
on
the
south
side
of
King
Street,
it's
designated
under
part
four.
The
applicant
is
proposing
to
repoint
and
repair
the
west
wall
of
this
building.
In
accordance
with
the
sees
masonry
policy,
they've
submitted
a
quote
for
$4,000
and
they
are
eligible
for
$2,000
in
grant
funding.
D
104
baguette
Street
is
located
on
the
northwest
side
of
baguette
Street
and
is
designated
under
part
five
as
part
of
the
old
synonym
district.
The
applicant
is
proposing
to
replace
two
windows
with
new
aluminum
clad
wood
windows,
as
well
as
replace
a
non
original
door
with
a
new
wood
window,
and
this
will
all
be
in
accordance
with
the
city's
policy
on
window
renovations.
The
applicant
has
submitted
a
quote
for
$10,000
and
is
eligible
for
$2,000
and
and
finally
191
King
Street
East,
located
on
the
southeast
side
of
King
Street.
It's
designated
inner
part
4.
D
It's
also
located
in
the
old
Sydenham
district,
and
this
property
is
also
subject
to
heritage
conservation,
easement
with
the
Ontario
Heritage
Trust
and
the
applicant
is
proposing
to
repair
and
repaint
the
existing
shutters,
as
well
as
repaint
the
wood
elements
on
the
main
building,
as
well
as
the
carriage
house,
in
accordance
with
the
easement
terms
and
the
district
plan,
and
with
approval
from
the
trust
this
application.
The
applicant
is
eligible
for
$2,000
in
grant
funding
for
this
as
well
to
qualify
for
eligible
work
that
prop
the
proposals
rate
alterations,
must
conserve
or
enhance
existing
heritage.
D
Attributes
of
the
property
the
alterations
proposed
on
these
various
properties
include
repainting,
repointing,
repair
of
existing
windows
as
well
as
they're,
a
pair
of
existing
features.
The
reconstruction
of
existing
features
that
are
beyond
repair
conservation,
reproduction
of
significant
features
and
the
repair
restoration
of
exteriors
of
buildings
are
noted,
specifically
in
the
Heritage
Grant
bylaw.
As
eligible
work.
The
proposed
alterations
will
help
address
current
deterioration,
concerns,
minimize
feature
deterioration
and
improve
the
life
span
of
various
key
features
on
these
protected
heritage
properties.
D
So
staff
will
recommend
approval
of
these
grant
applications.
The
the
properties
were
circulated
to
find
financial
services
to
ensure
there's
no
unpaid
taxes
or
local
improvement
charges
or
other
monies
owing
to
the
city,
and
they
have
confirmed
that
all
of
these
properties
are
eligible
for
grant
funding.
D
This
city
has
currently
11
grant
applications
have
been
preliminarily
approved
under
the
grant
program,
and
if
these
four
grant
applications
are
approved,
The
Associated
works,
valued
validated
and
the
remaining
balance
of
funds
will
be
approximately
$6,000
and
staff
have
received
3
applications
for
grants.
That
will
be
coming
to
this
committee
in
August,
and
that
will
be
the
remainder
of
the
funds
for
the
program
for
this
year.
D
A
You
thank
you
so
just
to
repeat
what
Mackenzie
just
said.
This
is
relevant
to
our
decision,
because
we
run
out
of
grant
funding
money
sometimes,
and
that's
the
case
this
year.
If
these
four
were
proof,
that's
8,000
they're
to
the
14,000
and
changed
its
remaining
3
applications
already
on
the
books.
That
would
take
up
the
remaining
6000
and
now
and
then
would
that
be
it.
A
So
our
our
question
really
is:
do
we
approve
every
grant
application,
that's
recommended
by
staff,
or
do
we
start
to
look
at
ways
to
to
triage
the
applications
in
hopes
that
the
ones
that
come
later
in
the
year
might
be
more
worthy
but
other
than
that
there
isn't
a
lot
to
consider
because
we're
either
supporting
the
grant
application
or
not
right.
That's
the
question
in
front
of
us
so
questions
from
members
of
the
committee.
A
H
C
In
terms
of
criteria
for
the
applicants,
is
there
any
do
we
differentiate
between
private
homeowners
versus
a
for-profit
company
like
the
Frontenac
property,
like
I
mean
they
have
their
office
happens
to
be
in
a
heritage
building?
Is
there
any
other
consideration
in
terms
of
income
levels
of
the
private
owners,
or
is
it
you
know?
Is
it
literally
just
first-come,
first-serve
who.
K
You
and
through
you,
so
in
the
time
that
I've
been
here
in
the
last
three
years,
there's
certainly
been
an
increase
in
the
amount
of
money
that
we've
put
toward
the
grant
program.
Originally,
it
was
about
24,000
a
year
and
we
were
certainly
allocating
twenty
four
thousand
dollars
of
grants
per
year.
We're
now
doing
about
thirty,
six
thousand
and
historically
has
been
done
on
a
first-come,
first-served
basis,
so
things
like
people's
income
levels,
whether
it's
a
private
company
or
an
individual.
Those
aren't
criteria
that
we're
utilizing
now,
based
on
the
way
the
program
was
established.
K
H
L
L
Can
maybe
answer
that
mr.
chair,
it
was
a
permit
that
I
reviewed
the
card.
Red
House
just
received
new
owners
just
over
the
last
year
or
so
and
they've
been
they've,
been
looking
at
ways
of
the
place
up
and
and
restoring
it.
So
they've
done
a
lot
of
work
on
the
interior,
but
what
interests
us
in
the
exterior
was
that
repairs
to
the
porch
or
to
the
shutters
and
and
they
wouldn't
soften
Faiza
on
that
building.
Is
it's
my
recollection
that
the
dark
green
shutters?
L
E
Thank
You
mr.
chair
we're
just
a
couple
questions
coming
from
the
debate
so
far,
but
with
me
and
information
providing
so
the
processing
of
these
grants
is
sort
of
the
regular
future
of
this
committee
and
it's
orderly
and
organized
very
well
but
I'm
wondering
if
there
are
grant
applications
that
are
brought
to
staff
that
get
turned
down
before
they
come
here
for
reasons
other
than
say,
tax
or
borrowing
or
whatever
in
terms
of
inadequate
cause
for
the
grant
funding
to
be
applied.
Is
that
a
reasonable
question?
E
And
then,
when
X
+
2
is
related
to
that
we
have
some
where
the
repairs
are
gonna
cost
say:
10
grand
some,
you
know:
20
grand
30,
grand
and
so
forth,
and
I'm
wondering
if
staff
ever
looks
at
the
percentage
of
the
grant
funding
that
would
be
applied
like
if
you're
looking
at
a
project.
That's
a
foreground,
then
you
can
have
half
of
it
covered
by
a
grant.
If
you
have
one,
that's
gonna
be
a
lot
more.
E
L
So
a
couple
of
things:
mr.
Dixon,
the
program
as
it's
currently
established
allows
a
grant
up
to
50%
of
the
costs
of
the
eligible
work,
but
limits
that
to
a
cap
of
$2,000
per
application
and
that's
they
can
apply
every
other
year.
So
that
is
something
that
we
are
considering
as
part
of
our
review
of
this
bylaw.
But
as
it
currently
stands,
that's
that's
how
that
works,
the
question
about
applications
that
don't
make
it
to
the
committee.
Yes,
we
we
haven't.
L
We
work
with
all
applicants
extensively
before
it
gets
before
before
this
group,
both
grants
and
permits,
and
and
the
like
to
ensure
that
the
things
that
make
it
to
this
stage
are
ones
that
we
feel
we
can
support.
So
usually
they
don't
get
to
the
application
stage.
We
will
discuss
their
their
applications
before
they
get
to
that
point
and
work
them
to.
L
If,
if
it's
something
that
we
feel
is
eligible
or
can
meet
the
eligibility
criteria,
we
would
absolutely
encourage
them
to
use
the
program,
but
if
certain
alterations
aren't
then
certainly
they
don't
they
don't
get
to
the
stage.
So
yes,
there's
a
lot
of
background
work
that
comes
before
we
get
to
here.
So
mr.
A
I
Thank
you
through
your
mr.
chair.
Yes,
I
just
wanted
to
add
and
think
the
Harwich
properties
working
group
how
the
opportunity
to
look
at
a
first
draft
of
the
revisions
to
the
grant
bylaw.
But
this
city
staff
right
now
are
undertaking
an
update
to
the
bylaw.
We
are
contemplating.
A
number
of
these
questions
about
is
the
grant
dollar
amount
sufficient
because
it
doesn't
take
a
very
substantial
project
to
use
of
the
two
thousand
dollars
that
we
have
eligible
and
the
other
thing
is.
I
We
are
having
a
public
open
house
we're
in
the
process
now
of
scheduling
that
will
be
advertising
on
the
on
the
city's
project
web
page
for
August,
the
22nd
at
the
Heritage
Resource
Center,
to
engage
more
broadly
on
on
updates
to
the
grant
bylaw
and
how
it's
working
the
criteria
that
we
use
to
review
applications.
One
of
the
things
that
we're
thinking,
maybe
just
to
give
a
quick
plug
to
some
of
the
changes,
is
looking
at
receiving
all
the
applications
within
a
specific
window
and
then
using
criteria
to
assess
those
applications
at
one
time.
I
A
Great
to
hear,
thank
you
just
in
regards
to
the
question
about
things
that
don't
make
it
to
the
committee.
I
can
attest
personally
to
one
that
I
heard
from
a
constituent
of
Sydenham
about
a
possible
application
that
that
the
committee
never
and
to
my
knowledge,
has
never
received
so
I.
Don't
know
what
happened
to
it,
but
I
know
that
someone
was
interested
in
something
and
knew
about
the
grant
program
and
still
never
applied
so
I
know
that
that
happens
as
well.
Okay,
so
now
we
need
a
mover
and
a
seconder
for
the
recommendation.
A
A
A
Yeah,
we
can
do
them
cause
by
cons
yeah.
So
in
that
case
we
need
a
mover
and
seconder
for
the
first
one,
which
is
194
King,
Street
East,
moved
by
dawn
seconded
by
Councillor
shell.
So
this
is
2004
194,
King,
Street
East.
Any
comments,
no
debate.
Okay.
We
call
the
question
your
mics
on
by
the
way,
all
those
in
favor
opposed
and
that
carries
the
next
one
is.
C
It's
more
of
a
question
under
the
current
eligibility
criteria.
Is
it
reasonable
to
say
no
to
a
request
or
recommend
a
no
based
on
the
fact
that
it's
a
business
and
a
for-profit
business
versus
a
private
homeowner
like?
Is
that
allowed
within,
or
is
that
just
something?
That's
a
bit
gray
in
the
gray
zone,
I.
A
Can't
answer
that
as
chair
you
can
you
can
oppose
an
application
for
whatever
reason
you
choose
your
member
of
the
public?
Also
a
committee
member.
You
can
take
whatever
position
you
like.
There's
no
rules
against
it.
If
you
would
like
to
turn
down
applications
based
on
the
fact
on
that
criteria,
it's
up
to
you,
you
may
find
others
in
agreement
or
you
may
not
and
any
other
debate.
I
have
a
question
for
staff.
L
A
F
A
So
we
were
deliberating
on
the
second
clause,
which
is
found
like
property
management.
Is
the
owner
so
she's
the
character
conflict?
If
you'd
like
to
write
that
out,
we'll
just
take
a
brief
recess.
While
she
does
that
and
then
no
excuse
you
for
this
and
that
does
not
affect
quorum
because
conflict
doesn't
changes
the
total
quorum
number
before
you,
so
you
can't
lose
quorum
because
of
conflict.
A
A
A
Okay,
we're
back
to
we've
moved
in
seconded
the
second
one,
okay.
So
so
yes,
we
need
a
mover
in
a
second.
So
it's
not
on
the
floor.
Yet
we
need
a
mover
in
a
seconder
to
put
on
the
floor,
but
Jamie
seconded
by
dawn.
So
far,
we've
had
some
questions
on
it,
but
we
haven't.
Had
anyone
speak
to
it
and
would
anyone
wish
to
speak?
A
A
In
that
sense,
you
have
to
look
for
ways
to
save
grant
money
and
in
that
lens
I
would
be
I.
Would
I
am
planning
to
oppose
this
grant
application
on
the
grounds
that
it
is
going
to
a
for-profit
company
with
many
many
properties
and
it's
a
drop
in
the
bucket
for
their
bottom
line,
whereas
it
might
be
a
deal-breaker
for
a
private
owner
and
delaying
so
much
needed
work.
Thank
you
for
being.
Thank
you.
A
B
L
H
We
have
situations
where
you
know
we
have
rental
properties,
and
you
know
some
of
them
are
quite
extensive
rental
properties,
so
it
just
in
this
case
I'm
wondering
I'm
talking
about
104
baggert,
who
is
living
in
the
house.
Is
that
the
property
owner
or
is
it
a
person
who
is
renting
space
from
the
property
owner
I?
Can.
A
H
H
A
I
Three
mister
chair:
if
I
may
ages,
I
want
to
take
a
minute
just
to
clarify
that,
so
we
recognize
the
social
importance
of
the
equity
of
distribution
of
funds
and
making
sure
that
people
aren't
making
an
extra
bit
of
profit
at
the
cost
of
the
taxpayer.
But
the
purpose
of
the
grant
dollars
themselves
are
to
make
sure
that
the
heritage
assets
we've
identified
as
a
municipality
and
designated
for
long
term
conservation
are
being
provided
access
to
the
funds
that
will
ensure
their
their
long-term
conservation.
I
So
recognizing
that
those
funds
may
be
received
as
profit
for
the
for
the
landowner.
It
also
might
be
the
the
necessary
carrot
to
seeing
these
resources
maintained
over
the
long
term.
So
I
wish
I
had
perhaps
said
that
before
you
made
the
vote,
I
don't
know
if
it
would
have
made
a
difference
on
the
last
file,
but
we
see
applications
for
grant
dollars
to
support
the
long
term
conservation
of
the
resources
to
support
works
that
might
not
otherwise
be
undertaken
by
the
owner.
I
A
You
now
questions
only
or
I'm
gonna
insist
that
we
move
it
in
sack
of
it
before
we
debate
any
further
any
questions,
okay,
move
and
we
need
to
move
her
in
a
seconder,
okay,
moved
by
Katherine
seconded
by
Jamie.
So
now
we're
debating
whether
we
approve
the
2004,
this
104
baguette,
who
would
like
to
speak?
Yes,.
B
Yes,
I
have
a
serious
concern
here
and
I
think
the
committee
will
recall
previously,
when
we've
discussed,
grant
applications
that
I've
been
concerned,
that
alterations
have
already
been
approved
under
delegated
authority
when
they're
really
not
minor,
and
my
own
view
is
that
the
replacement
of
Windows
on
a
main
facade
is
never
a
minor
alteration,
and
this
committee
should
participate
in
the
sort
of
consideration
of
the
application.
Now
I
won't
go
into
the
actually.
B
So
we're
you
know
it's
it's
just
incredible
to
me
that
they
have
been
approved
to
be
replaced
totally
in
contrary
to
the
windows
policy
without
reference
this
committee
and
now
the
committee
is
being
asked
to
approve
a
grant
to
facilitate
the
replacement
of
original
fabric
with
a
modern
window.
I
mean
I
think
this
is
a
very
serious
failure
in
our
procedures
and
certainly
I'll
be
voting
against
this
particular
recommendation.
B
M
Thank
you.
The
the
windows
policy
which
I
refreshed
myself
on
last
night,
doesn't
even
limit
itself
to
whether
they
read
original
or
not.
If
they
are,
if
they
have
historical,
they
need
replacement
windows,
but
they
may
have
historical
character
and
I.
Can't
I
can't
support
this,
because
I
think
the
I
I
think
the
what
has
been
allowed
is,
to
put
it
mildly,
a
kind
of
second-class
substitute
and
I
think
we
shouldn't
be
encouraging
it.
M
A
A
As
Sydenham
district
councillor,
I
speak
now
very
familiar
with
this
area
and
not
having
any
it's
not
in
the
report,
but
not
having
any
indication.
Otherwise,
knowing
the
reasons
that
people
sometimes
replace
windows
is
to
put
a
modern
window
that
may
be
more
energy-efficient
again.
That
would
be
savings
for
their
bottom
line.
To
me,
there
is
very
little
heritage
justification
for
this
particular
grant.
B
A
A
A
B
We
should
you
know
we
should
see
samples.
We
should
know
a
bit
more
than
what
we're
given
here
and
finally,
I
notice
reading
through
the
paint
contractors
quotation
that
the
quotation
just
refers
to
painting
the
Front's
of
the
shutters,
so
the
backs
of
the
shutters
are
not
going
to
be
painted.
Now
the
point
of
painting
is
not
just
for
appearance
it's
for
protection
and
if
the
backs
of
the
shutters
are
allowed
to
lose
their
paint
they're
going
to
deteriorate.
B
B
A
A
A
A
A
So
that's
all
the
business.
There
are
no
motions
under
other
business.
We
have
the
item
entitled
current
state
of
affairs
of
the
Heritage
Committee
this.
This
is
other
business.
We
we
could
theoretically
get
into
a
long
discussion
here,
but
because
Don
brought
it
up
a
couple
of
times
about
the
the
procedures
we
can,
we
can
make
comments,
but
there's
really
no
opportunity
to
solve
anything
under
other
business,
so
we
can't
make
any
decision
so
that
our
other
business,
but
we
can
certainly
have
a
brief
discussion
about
the
way
things
are
working,
go
ahead
done.
B
There's
problems
with
the
composition
of
the
committee
and
problems
with
the
heritage
procedures,
I,
don't
think
either.
These
are
satisfactory.
This
committee
has
been
operating
for
a
year
now
and
I
think
when
it
was
set
up.
I.
Think
many
of
us
remember
that
it
was
established
really
against
the
wishes
of
members.
You
know
of
the
previous
Heritage
Committee
and
the
previous
museums
committee.
B
We
pointed
out
that
there
were
significant
problems
in
the
way
it
could
work
and
I
think
those
issues
are
obvious
to
us
now,
one
of
the.
As
far
as
the
structure
is
concerned,
this
is
the
most
basic
problem
is
that
we
have
a
kind
of
group
of
people
of
members
who
are
have
some
expertise
in
built
heritage
and
others
whose
expertise
is
in
museums
and
general
heritage,
and
but
the
reality
is
that
almost
all
the
business
that
comes
here
is
about
built
heritage
and.
B
Obviously
this
is
not
you
know.
I
should
say
that
I
think
it's
an
excellent
committee,
a
lot
of
good
people
on
it,
but
the
people
for
people
who
are
not
interested
in
architecture
and
built
heritage.
They
can't
find
these
meetings
very
rewarding,
I,
think
they're.
Just
they
just
they
can't
participate.
They
can't
participate
in
the
procedures
or
at
least
they
don't
it's
essentially
a
waste
of
time.
B
I
B
E
B
Are
serving
on
this
committee
because
they
want
to
help
the
you
know:
owners
of
heritage
properties,
give
them
advice,
give
them
input
and
and
help
them
find
solutions,
but
they're
not
able
to
do
that,
and
so
the
I
think
more
greater
greater
extent.
They're
not
going
to
bother
coming
so
we're
having
quorum
issues
and
attendance
issues.
So
you
know
I
think.
B
Come
up
with
something
better
I
think
the
time
has
come
to
have
a
review
and
I
hope
to
get
some
input.
You
know
hope
the
other
members
will
make
some
input
here,
but
my
thought
is
that
at
the
next
committee
meeting
to
bring
an
emotion,
asking
City
Council
to
approve
a
review
of
the
committee
and
responsible
restructuring.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
You
Don
and
yes,
that
on
your
last
point
the
decision
does
rest
with
council.
Just
has
the
decision
to
set
up
the
committee
in
its
current
form
came
from
Council,
so
so
it
would
be
in
in
it
would
be
the
city
councilors
and
the
mayor
that
would
decide
at
whether
or
not
to
have
a
review
or
any
kind
of
restructuring.
That
might
might
happen.
So
that's
just
to
not
lose
the
sight
of
that.
Anyone
else
wish
to
comment
on
this
item
Jamie
and
then
Peter
actually.
C
I
just
like
to
broadly
echo
what
Don
says:
I'm
new
to
the
committee
and
I
daresay
I'm,
probably
the
youngest
on
the
committee
and
I
joined,
because
reading
the
advert
for
the
the
new
composition
of
the
committee
is
to
be
50%,
cultural
and
Museum,
and
then
built
heritage
and
I
applied
as
a
museum
practitioner.
As
someone
you
know
hosting
my
PhD
on
cultural
and
cultural
studies,
and
that's
that's
my
professional
expertise
and
while
I
find
it's
been
edifying
being
on
this
committee,
it
is
essentially
all
built
heritage.
C
As
is
you
know,
I
can
see
the
reason
for
that.
There's
a
lot
of
details
and
a
lot
of
work
to
be
done.
I
was
also
sold.
I
also
find
it
interesting
that
the
probably
in
retrospect
I
would
have
preferred
to
been
on
a
working
group
right,
but
that
wasn't
sort
of
a
clear
thing
and
I
think
that
is
problematic
on
the
other
side.
I
think
we're
getting
into
a
bit
of
a
danger
zone
because
it
is
a
volunteer
activity
and,
while
I
think
is,
is
great,
I
think
it's
effective.
C
It
increases
the
amount
of
work
and,
when
I'm
unable
to
participate
in
it's
just
literally,
because
I
have
other
deadlines
in
my
life,
particularly
as
a
PhD
student,
and
they
do
tend
to
draw
up
just
you
know,
out
of
the
blue,
sometimes
there's
a
few.
Sometimes
there's
a
lot
and
it's
repeated
again
in
the
meeting.
So
in
terms
of
the
time
investment
I
think
that's
starting
to
get
problematic
because
it's
it's
shifting
it
from
what
could
be
a
volunteer
position
into
what
could
be
arguably
work
and
in
terms
of
accessibility
in
term
of
participation.
C
I
think
you
know
speaking
as
a
young
person
who
works
at
precarious
work
schedule
and
as
a
student
and
a
relatively
low
income,
it's
pushing
access
to
participate
in
processes
like
this
either
people
have
time
either
because
they're,
retired
or
they're
fairly
affluent,
and
don't
have
to
worry
about
the
day-to-day
there's.
Not
it's
not
necessarily
an
easy
fix,
but
I
think
it's
something
to
consider.
Widen
participation.
A
Thank
you
just
on
your
point
about
has
to
remind
the
committee
that
the
concept
was
rightly
or
wrongly,
but
the
concept
at
the
time
was
to
have
input
earlier
on
in
the
process
that
would
go.
Sometimes,
as
you
see
in
the
reports,
goes
back
to
the
applicant.
The
applicant
changes
slightly
some
things
that
the
purpose
of
having
the
the
timing
of
the
intervention
by
is
to
weigh
in
a
sooner
sooner
than
the
basically
the
last
second,
which
is
whether
we
approve
or
not,
which
is
that
the
committee
meeting.
A
So
yes,
it
is
an
extra
time
commitment,
and
but
that
was
the
rationale
for
it,
and
we
do
need
to
evaluate
whether
it's
working,
I
guess
I'll.
Keep
this
go
further
to
what
Don
was
saying.
We
we
were
promised
a
review
a
roughly
a
year
after
the
committee
started
and
and
what
we
had
was
my
report
at
the
last
meeting,
which
I
worked
on
with
James,
which
is
more
of
a
sort
of
a
statistics
of
what
of
what
the
work
of
the
committee
is,
but
that's
an
annual
thing
that
happens.
A
Every
year
we
haven't
had
a
review
of
the
functioning
of
the
committee
sort
of
like
it.
Probationary
period
has
ended
and
we're
reviewing
how
it's
working
we
haven't
had
that
so,
but
that
would
have
to
be
mandated
by
Council.
So
so
that's
the
procedural
part
of
it
I'm
open
to
all
suggestions,
I'd
like
to
say
regarding
the
composition,
regardless
of
where
your
background
was,
and
speaking
as
someone
who
does
not
have
a
specialization
in
either
cultural
studies
or
heritage
or
built
heritage
or
architecture.
I
have
neither
of
those
things.
A
A
Remember,
the
members
that
are
here
are,
and
that
do
come
and
do
participate
are
very
valuable
to
me
as
chair,
regardless
of
your
background,
I
and
I
would
just
say
that,
since
since
this
committee
started
a
year
ago,
it
has
never
been
the
individuals
who
were
chosen
by
the
nominations
committee
that
are
to
blame
for
the
problems
with
the
committee.
It
is
the
it
is
the
getting
our
heads
around
an
efficient
way
of
doing
business.
That
is
the
problem.
Yes,
it
kills
our
show.
F
Thanks,
yes,
you
made
some
really
good
points
and
especially
the
last
one,
an
efficient
way
of
doing
the
business
while
feeling
that
it's
being
done
thoroughly,
and
that
seems
to
be
part
of
the
bone
of
contention,
and
it's
also
how
we
do
it
thoroughly
and
it
is
a
committee
that
has
a
legislative
side.
I
mean
it's
a
it's
a
mandated
committee
by
the
province
that
we
maybe
should
go
over
again.
What
the
legislative
portion
is.
There
is
a
legal
side
to
this
committee
and
there's
also
sort
of
past
practice.
F
That
still
is
keeps
coming
forward,
but
we
have,
as
a
council,
delegated
a
lot
of
authority
to
staff
and
we
have
as
a
city
hired
professional
heritage
staff
and
it
still
partly
harkens
to
the
days
when
we
didn't
have
that.
So
we
depended
on
people
who
had
done
heritage
restoration
for
art,
for
advice
that
we
could
then
you
know
hand
over,
and
we
have
been
trying
to
change
it
so
that
people
come
to
the
professional
staff
for
the
discussion
and
staff
used
their
delegated
authority.
F
So
there
seems
to
be
still
a
big
push-pull
on
that
one
that
may
change
over
time.
I
hope,
because
we
do
want
to
be
able
to
do
the
business
of
heritage
which
has
expanded
when
I
say
to
people.
You
know
ten.
Eight
years
ago
we
didn't
have
cultural
heritage
or
culture
or
museums,
as
sort
of
part
of
the
city.
F
Integrated
into
city
functions,
we
just
simply
didn't
have
those
staff
we
just
didn't:
have
staff
and
we've
been
building
that
whole
capacity
in
the
city.
So
there
is
a
change
going
on
and
I
think
it.
We
will
probably
have
these
discussions
for
a
while
longer,
but
we
do
have
added
responsibilities
now
and
somehow
we
have
to
deal
with
them
and,
along
with
the
new
responsibilities
that
we
have
as
a
whole
committee,
but
I
do
suspect.
We
need
to
discuss
the
legislative
side
again.
F
M
Thank
you,
I
want
I,
think
to
say
to
speak
to
to
two
points
and-
and
the
first
is
I-
think
the
point
that
Jamie
raised.
If
this
committee
is
going
to
serve
the
city
effectively,
this
committee
needs
to
have
on
it
people
who
are
not
specialists
in
the
built
environment
and
and
having
a
variety
of
perspectives
around
it,
of
people
who
who
are
interested
but
who
are
who
are
not
degreed
and
who
do
not
regard
themselves
as
specialists
in
it.
M
That's
very
important,
because
that
is
the
way
that
the
city
that
is
the
citizens
of
the
city,
are
represented
on
this
committee,
and
that
is
what
this
committee
is
supposed
to
be.
We
are
supposed
to
be
those
of
us
who
are
pointed
to
it:
people
who
are
capable
of
representing
the
the
the
taxpayers,
the
the
residents
of
the
city
and
I
know
before
I
came
on
this
committee.
There
was
an
architect
on
it
and
there
were
a
number
of
specialists
on
it
with
very
clear
expertise,
and
that
was
you
know.
M
I
think
that
they
performed
I'm
told
that
they
performed
in
a
different
relationship
to
the
applicants.
Then
then,
it's
the
case
now
and
yes,
there
is
some
value
in
having
a
specialist
on
it.
We
don't
want
to
have
just
all
the
general
public,
but
if
this
is
only
going
to
be
a
conversation
among
specialists,
it
is
not
going
to
be
I,
think
very
readily
attractive
to
the
public
and
and
the
one
of
the
great
responsibilities
of
city
government
and
this
committee
is
part
of
it.
M
I
think,
is
to
educate
the
the
public
to
whom
we
are
ultimately
responsible.
Council
counselors
people
like
ourselves,
and-
and
we
want
to
do
that
as
effectively
as
we
can,
and
we
can't
do
that
effectively
if
we
are
regarded
by
the
public
and
if
we
are
simply
a
kind
of
a
small
cadre
of
specialists.
So
we
we
desperately
need
the
generalists
and
and
interested
citizens
on
it.
M
In
the
last
year
than
I
had
before
and
I
think,
the
primary
reason
for
that
is
that,
under
the
current
set
of
of
legislative
arrangements,
we
are
denied
the
capacity
as
members
of
the
public
to
discuss
the
business
of
the
public,
which
we
are
here
to
discuss.
That
business
has
basically,
as
far
as
we
are
concerned,
been
translated
transformed
into
a
a
series
of
kind
of
private
emails
which
we
send
by
and
we
can
read
what
other
people
say.
Don
gets
his
reports
in
many
more
than
I
do.
M
But
when
I'm
writing
a
report
and
if
Don's
is
there,
I
I
read
it
because
he
he
makes
makes
me
think.
But
that
is
not
the
same
as
being
able
to
have
a
public
discussion
around
this
table
of
the
issues
and
and
I
think
that
that
is
meant.
For
me,
it's
meant
two
things
that
are
very
important
and
which
take
away
I.
Think
the
capacity
of
this
committee
to
speak
to
the
public
first.
B
A
A
Did
you
have
anything
to
say:
okay,
I,
just
thought
of
another
aspect
that
we
haven't
mentioned
yet
and
it
because
I've
mentioned
it
before
I'm
gonna
mention
it
again.
I
mentioned
this
to
staff,
and
this
is
in
no
way.
Any
kind
of
this
is
not
being
critical
of
anything
that
staff
has
done
or
in
particular,
the
cultural
heritage
department.
A
But
it's
evident
after
receiving
14
briefings
last
year
from
the
cultural
heritage
department
and
last
last
meeting,
we
were
given
the
opportunity
for
to
weigh
in
on
what
on
what
they
were
doing,
but
there
was
very
little
uptake
at
the
time
it
just
an
objective
third
party
who
is
observing
would
say
that
clearly,
that
is
not
a
big
part
of
our
current
business
and
which,
which
would
support
all
the
comments
saying
that
mostly
what
did
we
do
regards
built
heritage?
That's
the
actuality
of
the
time
that
we
spend
here
at
the
committee.
A
Last
last
month
the
cultural
Department
came
to
us
and
asked
for
our
input,
but
it
wasn't
wasn't
successful.
So
I
don't
know
if
we
need
more
more
shots,
more
kicks
at
the
can
or
what?
But,
if
an
objective
person
can't
say
that
this
committee
is
dealing
with
both
are
non
built
heritage,
cultural
heritage
issues,
which
is
museums
and
everything
else,
and
the
stories
of
Kingston
and
all
that
stuff.
If
it's
not
dealing
with
that,
we
need.
A
We
need
to
ask
Council
whether
it
should
be
included
in
the
first
place,
because
that's
what's
the
change
that
was
made
a
year
ago,
and
it's
also
and
I
end
up,
not
because
I
don't
want
it
can
I
do
want
it.
I
I
am
interested
in
the
stories
in
the
cultural
heritage
side
very
interesting,
I'm,
just
as
interested
in
that
side
as
the
architectural
side,
it
just
hasn't
happened.
It
hasn't
happened
yet
and
it
needs
to
happen
and
I'm
not
I'm,
not
pointing
fingers
at
anyone.
I,
don't
think
this
is
on
purpose.
A
B
Well,
just
a
comment
that
I
do
appreciate,
so
the
comments
I've
hurt
and
I
think
in
particular,
Peter
raised
Peter
go
Hien
raised
some
good
points
and
I
entirely
agree
that
this
should
not
be
just
a
committee
of
built
heritage
specialists.
It
never
has
been
in
the
past,
but
the
business
has
almost
always
been
built
heritage,
but
we
need
people
from
the
community
who
are
not
specialists
but
who
you
know
who
are
care
about,
we're
Kingston
is
going
and
what
should
be
done?
What
needs
to
be
done?
What
priorities
should
be
done?
B
So
we've
always
had
those
people
on
the
committee
and
that's
been
very
important.
I
hope
that
continues,
but
as
long
as
the
business
of
built
heritage
is
as
extensive
as
it
is,
it's
really
not
realistic
to
say
one
committee
can
handle
built
heritage,
museums
in
general
things
I
mean
most
of
us
are
interested
in
all
these
things,
but
it
doesn't
mean
they
can
all
be
done
efficiently
and
effectively
and
in
the
present
format.
B
C
It's
just
sort
of
a
quick
final
point
for
me
on
I've
heard
the
word:
efficiency
sort
of
used
a
lot
and
I
suppose
I'm
speaking
to
our
to
political
members.
Here
more
and
you
know,
efficiency,
particularly
in
the
public
sector
is
just
as
driven
by
ideology
or
the
idea
of
efficiency
or
ideas
around
it,
as
it
is
by
pragmatics
right.
C
How
are
what
actually
is
efficient
and
on
paper
I
know
it
can
seem
very
efficient
to
block
a
lot
of
material
into
one
meeting
or
to
make
these
mega
groups
in
terms
of
purpose
and
responsibility,
but
in
practicality
it
often
isn't
just
even
today,
because
we
had
no
briefings
about
culture.
It
was
a
far
more
efficient
meeting
because
it
effectively
was
just
only
on
built
heritage
issues
and
just
you
know
a
final
humorous
note.
I
do
remember.
C
At
the
beginning
of
the
session
I
remember
you
saying
Peter
that
we
couldn't
go
past
12
o'clock
noon
in
these
meetings,
because
otherwise
the
city
would
have
to
provide
us.
Lunch
and
I
can
think
of
several
meetings
that
have
gone
past
life
no
noon
and
no
lunch
has
been
procured
so
I'm,
citing
budgetary
reasons
there.
You
know
just
just
a
final
point
to
consider.
F
16
minutes
no
I'll,
just
a
game.
Life
has
changed
so
much
just
in
the
time.
I've
been
a
counselor
during
the
cultural
heritage.
Working
group
no
I'll
go
back
to
the
king,
North
Kingstown
secondary
plan
visioning
and
out
of
that,
visioning
came
a
request,
if
not
demand
from
the
neighborhood
who
are
terribly
keen
on
their
built
heritage
and
their
cultural
heritage
and
their
landscape,
and
we
just
talked
about.
We
hardly
ever
talked
about
landscaping
here.
F
We,
the
world,
has
so
much
expanded
in
the
last
few
years,
so
the
culture
there's
going
to
be
a
cultural
heritage,
landscapes
study
done
for
the
North
Kingstown
as
a
result
of
North
Kingstown
visioning
and
we've
never
done
one.
It's
brand
new
to
the
city
of
Kingston,
it's
brand
new
to
most
cities,
actually
even
ones
that
have
had
you
know,
heritage
committees
for
years
and
years.
F
The
idea
that
there
we've
had
these
districts
heritage
districts
because
we
have
a
pool
of
very
beautiful
homes
generally,
that
should
be
lumped
together
under
massive
protection,
but
we've
never
protected
well.
For
me,
Portsmouth
district
would
be
a
prime
example
of
a
cultural
heritage
landscape
that
should
be
preserved
because
it
was
the
workers,
cottages
and
oddest
homes
for
the
psych
hospital
in
the
pen,
but
the
more
that
becomes
visible
and
important
to
people
and
the
more
people
realize
it's
on
the
water.
F
The
more
pressure
there
is
to
rip
down
the
houses
and
put
big
houses
there,
because
it's
a
really
prime
spot
and
I
think
Barry
field
must
have
gone
through
this.
You
know
save
the
workers
cottages,
but
the
view
is
a
million-dollar
view.
So
there's
was
huge
pressure
to
turn
it
into
a
millionaires
role
because
of
the
location
and
the
views
so
we're
just
now
in
the
last
few
months,
trying
to
tackle
another
huge
issue
that
we've
never
tackled
before
is
a
city,
cultural
heritage,
landscape
study
and
I.
Think
staff
are
having
a
little
trouble.
F
Does
it
go
to
planning?
What
do
we
do
legislatively
talk
about
zoning,
bylaws
and
and
Official
Plan
reviews?
Does
it
come
here
because
this
is
where
we
would
discuss
heritage,
cultural
landscapes
or
where
does
it
go?
So
it's
here
in
a
working
group,
but
it's
going
to
be
with
staff.
It
is
with
staff
for
a
formal
study
that
they
have
to
figure
out
how
to
do
and
I
think
they'd
like
advice.
F
I
don't
have
the
answer
and
I
think
we
could
probably
discuss
this
for
a
few
hours
or
days
the
whole
idea
of
cultural
landscape
studies,
so
I
I
meant
efficient
in
terms
of
that
that
we
get
to
everything
not
in
terms
of
you
know,
push
it
through,
but
anyway
it's
just
something
that
that
has
come
up
and
is
becoming
vitally
important
and
as
a
city,
we're
gonna
need
to
help
figure
out
how
to
do
it.
Thanks.
A
Thank
you:
did
it
see
any
other
hands?
Well,
I
guess
it'll
be
to
be
continued.
Thank
You
Don
for
bringing
that
up.
We'll
move
on
to
the
last
item,
which
is
our
next
meeting.
We
do
have
a
meeting
in
August.
We
may
have
quorum
issues
again.
We
didn't
we
finished
the
meeting
today
with
minimum
quorum.
Had
anyone
gone
to
the
bathroom,
we
would
have
had
to
suspend
operations.
A
M
Is
a
bit
of
humor,
which
is
a
little
more
party
than
the
humor
we've
had
before,
but
I
went
a
couple
of
years
ago,
through
Penryn
castle
in
northern
Wales.
It
was
a
place
built
by
the
people
who
made
too
much
money
on
the
slate
which
put
every
Church
roof
and
most
workers
colleges
in
Britain
made
them
dry.
M
The
dining
place
is
marvelous,
it's
Victorian,
but
and
the
king,
or
at
least
the
man
who
became
Edward.
The
seventh
was
a
visitor
on
of
occasions.
The
dining
room
was
very
wonderful.
The
bathrooms
were
not
very
good,
and
so
there
was
a
cupboard
in
what
would
have
been
a
sideboard
and
it
had
a
party,
and
there
was
also
a
a
screen
and
so
His
Royal,
Highness
and
other
guests
when
they
really
had
to
having
eaten
too
much.
They
actually
just
relieved
themselves
in
the
chamber.