►
From YouTube: Kingston, Ontario - Housing and Homelessness Advisory Committee (Special) - June 14, 2022
Description
Special Housing and Homelessness Advisory Committee meeting from June 14, 2022. For full meeting agenda, visit https://bit.ly/3Og6kjp
A
I
will
just
note
right
at
the
beginning
that
we
have
many
committee
members
who
were
simply
unable
to
make
it
today
for
various
reasons
and
let
us
know
their
regrets
in
advance
and
so
what
we're
going
to
be
doing,
because
this
this
meeting,
the
intention
is
really
to
get
feedback
and
to
review.
We
have
a
presentation
from
staff
today,
so
I
think
the
plan
is
that
for
those
members
that
are
not
present
with
us
today
for
this
meeting,
we
will
be
sending
the
youtube
link
of
this
meeting.
A
We
will
be
sending
the
presentation
materials
from
today
to
the
other
committee
members
so
that
they
can
review.
They
can
ask
questions
if
they'd
like
to
through
through
staff
and
basically
still
try
to
get
their
feedback
as
well,
so
so
that
that
will
be
happening
as
well.
Just
to
make
note
of
that,
and
so
before
we
call
the
meeting
to
order,
I
will
ask,
is
you
can
let
us
know
who's
with
us
today
from
staff
and
so
on?.
C
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
through
you
at
the
time
I'll
just
confirm
quorum
missing,
currently
from
members
of
the
committee
are
francesca:
crete,
tara,
everett,
michelle
mccarty
and
francis
smith.
Joining
us
from
staff
are
new
ruth
nordograf,
director
of
housing
and
social
services,
heather
scranich
manager
of
housing
and
homelessness
and
joanne
boris
housing
program
administrator.
C
A
Sorry,
thank
you.
I
appreciate
that
miss
fawcett.
So
with
that
we'll
call
the
meeting
to
order
officially,
so
we
will
start
with
the
approval
of
agenda
if
I
could
have
a
first,
please
for
the
approval
of
agenda.
Thank
you,
mr
clark,
and
thank
you
counselor
neil
and
if
I
could
have
a
show
of
hands
of
all
in
favor.
A
A
F
B
Thank
you
so
much,
madam
chair,
good,
to
see
everybody.
I
I
just
wanted
to
double
check
that
my
sounds
is:
is
okay
for
everybody
awesome
great!
Thank
you
so
much
so,
first
of
all,
thank
you
very
much
for
coming
together
as
a
special
committee.
We
staff.
I
really
would
like
to
take
this
opportunity
to
brief
you
on
the
various
kind
of
pieces
around
the
encampments
response
or
the
encampments
pilots
that
the
council
has
asked
us
to
explore.
B
I
will
provide
you
some
of
the
content
with
that
in
a
minute,
but
we
really
see
it
as
an
important
engagement
opportunity
with
the
committee
we
will
also.
I
don't
know
this
is
a
very
fast
moving
process,
but
we're
also
engaging
with
many
other
groups
and
individuals
and
and
of
course
I
will
touch
touch
on
that
later
on
as
well.
So
with
me,
as
as
madam
chair
has
mentioned,
I
have
my
colleagues
heather
scranich.
B
I
was
the
manager
of
housing
and
homelessness
and
joanne
boris
the
housing
program
administrator
and
also
sarah
burnett
who's,
helping
us
to
capture
some
of
the
conversations.
So
we
can
also
bring
that
back
in
our
reporting
back
to
council,
so
in
the
next
slide
and
hey
it
works.
I
just
wanted
to
again
kind
of
summarize
what
the
purpose
is
of
today.
B
B
So
the
next
slide,
and
before
I
jump
into
the
motion,
I
will
promise
you
I'm
not
going
to
read
all
of
this
out
loud,
but
I
just
wanted
to
bring
the
committee
back
to
kind
of
the
you
know
the
the
situation
in
kingston,
which
is
a
situation
that
and
it's
you
know,
opening
up.
You
know
the
news
articles
each
day
across
the
country
across
northern
america.
I
think
many
jurisdictions
are
really
trying
to.
B
You
know
kind
of
find
the
right
approach
in
how
to
best
support
people
that
are
unhoused
both
short
term
but
obviously
also
looking
at
more
of
a
longer
term
solution.
We
and
well
obviously
kingston.
Just
like
many
other
communities,
we
have
been.
You
know
managing
homeless
encampments
for
for
many
years
and
over
the
last
few
years
with
the
panemic.
Obviously,
the
number
of
encampments
and
the
visibility
of
the
cabinets
was
really
grew
in
our
community.
B
Behind
the
in
this
motion,
specifically
behind
the
integrated
clear
up
as
well
as
you
know,
other
areas
in
our
community,
which
basically
asks
staff
to
continue
to
pass
the
protocol
which
we
have
done
because
the
motion
passed
so
we
have
unless
there
are
very
specific
health
and
safety
issues
in
in
encampments.
We
have
not
been
moving
people
around
in
any
of
the
city
owned
properties.
B
So
that
was
motion.
One
motion,
two,
it's
quite
a
lengthy
one.
So
on
the
next
slide-
and
I
will
kind
of
paraphrase-
and
obviously,
if
you
want
to
know
more-
you
can
read
them
at
your
at
your
leisure
really
again.
In
a
nutshell,
the
second
motion
asked
council
to
come
back
with
a
potential
encampment
pilot
with
sanctioned
encampment
pilots
and
asked
staff
to
work
with
public
health,
our
ich
partner
and
other
partners.
B
E
B
B
We
also
have
about
around
20
or
so
individuals
that
frequents
more
of
the
downtown
midtown
area,
and
then
we
do
have
some
encampments
more
in
the
west
and
east,
mainly
in
the
west
end
that
some
that
that
street
outreach
does
visit
regularly
supports.
But
I
don't
think
quite
often
people
are
as
aware
of
in
the
community.
B
B
B
We
also
know
that
a
few
other
cities,
for
instance
halifax,
is
the
most
recent
one
that
is
really
going
through
a
very
similar
process,
as
we
are
in
kingston
and
and
exploring
options
to
look
at
the
potential
of
sanctioning
or
dedicating
certain
locations
in
the
united
states.
There
are
quite
a
few
cities
and
states
that
have
attempts
to
safely
and
securely
sanction
and
campus
and
on
the
next
slides,
we
just
wanted
to
summarize
a
couple
of
the
characteristics
of
those
that
that
we
that
we've
been
able
to
find.
B
We
have
not
talked
to
everybody
yet,
but
we're
really
trying
to
cast
a
wide
net
with
our
various
partners,
and
we
have
we've
created
a
variety
of
very
kind
of
various
questions,
to
really
understand
kind
of
the
reasoning
behind
behind
people
that
are
living
with
living
life.
I
will
say
that
this
has
been
an
ongoing
process.
This
is
not
the
first
time
that
that
we
or
our
partners
are
engaging
with
people
that
are
on
house,
but
we
are
again
for
this.
The
purposes
of
this.
This
task
the
council
has
given
us.
B
B
Some
incredible
work
with
like
actively
engaging
the
people
that
are
unhoused
in
the
ice
space
and
bell
park
area
and
then
street
out
and
some
of
our
city
staff
have
and
continue
to
consult
with
people
that
are
unhoused
in
other
areas
in
our
community
and
again
we
are
getting
some
good
information
and
just
highlighted
some
initial
trends
and
findings.
You
know,
generally,
we
find
that
individuals
are
very
positive
about
the
prospects
of
a
dedicated
location.
B
B
B
B
B
B
Definitely
again
the
need
for
clear
rights
and
responsibilities,
and
some
sort
of
oversight
or
process
also
a
very
clear
signal
that
this
should
not
be
a
solution,
but
really
should
be
a
stock
gap
that
really
needs
to
look
at
how
to
invest
the
funding
and
reducing
homelessness
rather
than
managing.
It
also
some
concerns
about
what
what
happens
with
those
individuals
that
do
not
want
to
live
and
more
of
a
sanctions
or
dedicated
encampments
and
again
some
questions
around
kind
of
self-governance
versus
staffing
operating
the
need
to
really
look
at.
B
B
Some
concerns
about
garbage
issues,
and
I
want
to
celebrate
and
complement
integrated
care
up
with
how
they
have
been
focusing
on
community
cleanups,
and
it's
been
actually
very,
very
good.
But
it's
definitely
one
of
the
big
concerns
around
encampments
and
overall
health
and
safety
concerns
for
individuals
that
are
in
encampments
and
how
to
approach
that
so
the
next
slide.
B
We
also
obviously
have
been
in
and
continue
to
be
working
with
our
colleagues
in
other
city
departments,
we're
looking
at
environmental
sampling
of
specific
locations
in
belt
park
to
make
sure
that
we
have
a
good
sense
of
what
the
risks
would
be
for
certain
locations
and
really
weigh
that
again.
Some
of
the
drug
poisoning
realities
we're
looking
at.
B
How
would
that
cycle
and
look
for
potential
locations
and
we're
doing
some
obviously
we're
trying
to
bring
together
an
overview
of
costing
and
just
for
for
some
of
your
awareness
costing
even
like
if
you're
looking
at
very
kind
of
low-cost
models,
we
would
be
looking
at
some
basic
amenities,
such
as
port-a-potties,
a
garbage
dumpster
and
even
with
those
kind
of
amenities.
You
know,
for
instance,
a
porta
potty
one
port-a-potty
costs
about
four
thousand
dollars
a
month.
B
A
garbage
dumpster
again
is
you
know,
with
a
very
kind
of
regular
kind
of
cleaning
and
making
sure
that
that
works
really.
Well
again,
that's
that's
quite
costly,
and
I
know
heather
can
jump
in
on
a
couple
more
details,
but
looking
at
some
of
this,
even
some
very
basic
amenities,
which
likely
leads
to
quite
a.
D
E
B
Getting
some
context
that
you
know
the
more
things:
the
more
services
we
add,
the
more
costly,
obviously
the
the
pilot
will
be,
and
we're
really
trying
to
balance
council's
requests
to
do
this
as
a
low-cost
pilot,
so
just
putting
it
out
there
again
we're
looking
at
how.
How
would
this
look
like
if
we
operationalize
this
with
the
setup?
The
intake
and
kind
of
you
know
again
if
there's
no
staffing
or
no
no
kind
of
24
7
dedicated
staff?
How?
B
How
would
that
look
like
if
you
look
at
intake
we're
also
looking
at
enforcements
and
kind
of
how
do
we
enforce
or
how
do
we
address
any
rights,
any
issues
or
potentially
rights
and
responsibilities
that
are
not
being
followed,
what
our
bylaw
needs
and
liabilities
and
again,
most
importantly,
I
think,
like
the
health
and
safety
of
our
all
of
the
community,
so
the
next
slide
community
engagement.
Obviously
today
is
our
meeting
so
again
very
grateful
for
all
of
you
to
join.
We
are-
and
I
know
again,
this
is
not.
B
So
next
slide,
I'm
almost
there.
We
did
drafts
and
simple
regulations
just
you
know,
because
I
think
we
need
to
start
to
talk
about
something
it's
been
based
on
actually
existing
rules
or
rights.
I
guess
for
those
campaigning
at
lake
ontario
park
and
we've
also
received
some
looked
at
some
input
from
other
jurisdictions,
but
it
has
information
about
the
size
of
the
campsite.
B
The
you
know
the
intake
of
the
camper
how
to
deal
with
garbage
how
to
manage
pets.
You
know
no
motorized
vehicles,
no
structures
other
than
tents
and
on
the
next
slides
you
will
also
see
you
know
some
wording
around
campfires
and
harvest
harvesting
of
firewoods
no
use
of
alcohol
or
smoking
or
vaping,
except
for
on
the
on
their
own
campsites.
B
B
B
B
Been
able
to
to
confirm
that,
based
on
a
few
logistical
challenges,
we
are
looking
at
the
potential
of
a
capacity
of
up
to
60
residents
or
60-ish
residents,
we're
obviously
making
a
good
trying
to
get
make
sense
of
the
cost
and
the
basic
amenities,
their
environmental
considerations,
their
enforcement
considerations,
health
and
safety
set
up
time
into
intake
process
and
also
access
who
can
access
this.
This
location
so
lots
to
consider
we'd
love
to
hear
your
feedback
and
then
the
next
slide.
B
B
Our
individual
home
ownership
program
and
use
some
of
those
funds
to
actually
help
some
of
our
not-for-profits
for
the
down
payments
for
the
house,
so
very
excited
about
that.
I
think
that
that
could
lead
to
additional
capacity
for
individuals
that
obviously
are
living
on
an
ontario
works
or
odsp
shelter
allowance
that
does
not
allow
them
to
get
a
good
housing
option
and
we're
also
looking
at
an
at
asking
council
to
use
potentially
another
facility
for
some
interim
emergency
housing
for
up
to
a
year.
So
that
will
also
be
part
of
the.
B
A
A
Thank
you
and
if
that
I
know
that
we're
sending
that
out
to
all
of
the
committee
members
who
are
not
with
us
today,
so
that
they
can
also
submit
any
feedback
or
comments
or
questions
in,
but
also
if
we
could
have
that
just
distributed
amongst
the
whole
committee,
including
those
that
are
present.
That
would
be
great.
A
So
I
will
now
ask
our
committee
members
for
their
feedback,
any
comments
or
any
questions
in
regards
to
this
presentation
on
the
encampment
response
and
it'll,
be
together
with
this
business
item
seven,
so
we'll
just
sort
of
roll
them
into
one
we'll
move
forward.
Now
that
roof
has
done
the
briefing
we'll
move
forward
into
business
item
seven
since
since
they're,
essentially
one
and
I'd
like
to
be
able
to
also
enable
the
public
to
immediately
ask
their
their
questions
or
share
their
comments
as
well.
A
H
H
B
Thank
to
you,
madam
chair,
I
will
start-
and
I
know
heather
and
joanne
probably
would
love
to
jump
in
here
as
well.
But
again,
I
think
there
is
not
one
group
of
people.
It's
not
70
to
80
unhoused
individuals
that
exactly
have
the
same
needs.
I
think
they're,
certainly
and
again,
like
the
pandemic,
has
certainly
kind
of
exasperated
that
issue
of
shelter
capacity
and
and
some
people
not
feeling
even
before
the
pandemic,
people
necessary
not
feeling
comfortable
accessing
the
shelter,
but
the
pandemic
has
not
helped.
B
B
I
think
there
are
some
individuals
that
would
it's
it's
and,
and
we
have
continued-
and
there
is
actually
reports
in
council
next
week
around
that's
the
homelessness
system
as
a
whole
and
shelter.
We've
seen
some
good
success.
Friends
with
the
warming
center,
we've
seen
some
good
success
with
the
integrated
care
hub.
We're
also
asking
you
know,
and
this
is
this
public
knowledge
like
we
have
asked
for
a
dedicated
women
shelter,
so
I
think
we're
definitely
seeing
some
solutions
coming.
That
would
help
people
to
access
those,
but.
C
B
I
I
But
if
there's
not
any
space
to
be
able
to
provide
to
somebody,
then
it
does.
It
makes
a
little
bit
of
a
predicament
in
that
we
can
get
them
to
shelter,
but
they
may
just
have
to
wait
a
little
while
I
think
the
hope
is
that
this
might
just
be
that
sort
of
preemptive
waiting
period
time.
Well,
while
they
still
have
some
access
to
supports.
H
Okay,
then,
then,
as
as
a
follow-up,
maybe
a
question
I
would
have
is
is
if,
if
we've
got
a
a
finite
number
of
campsites
that
we're
going
to
put
together
through
this
this
protocol,
there
will
be
people
who
are
are
left
out.
If
you
will,
or
or
who,
who
are,
are
not
included
what
happens
to
them,
and
and
are
we
proposing
that
to
to
to
counsel
that
that,
in
effect,
we're
going
to
have
sanctioned
a
sanctioned
encampment
and
various
other
encampments
around
around
the
the
city?
Anyway,.
B
There
are
like
we
see
some
situations
where
there
are
kind
of
protocol
sanctions,
locations
or
campsites
where
individuals
can
camp,
but
that
might
not
still
that
might
not
work
for
some
individuals,
some
in
some
item,
because
of
the
location
because
of
the
other
people
that
are
there.
So
there
will
be
like.
I
think
we
just
have
to
be
honest.
There
will
be
people
that
will
not
be
able
that
will
be
left
out
either
because
they
don't
want
to
or
they
can't
for
a
variety
of
reasons.
B
So
I
think
that
that's
kind
of
where,
like,
if
you
go
for
like
sanctions
or
locations,
where
we
are
kind
of
dedicating
some
resources
again
hearing
from
partners
hearing
from
from
unhoused
individuals,
people
do
would
like,
would
like
to
look
at
some
rights
and
responsibilities
and
some
some
kind
of
oversight
and
some
sort
of
kind
of
pieces.
So
so
I
think
we
need
to
keep
that
in
mind.
B
B
Of
a
broken
record,
but
needs
really
dedicated
supportive
services
to
be
successful,
to
be
successfully
housed.
So
sometimes
it's
individuals
that
have
been
housed
that
were
not
able
to
maintain
housing
because
they
they
were
not
able
to
to
receive
the
supports
that
they
needed
to
to
successfully
stay
home.
So
to
your
peter,
to
your
question
peter,
I
think
it's,
it's
definitely
a
reality
that
we
also
see
like
you
go
for
dedicated
locations.
B
H
D
D
B
I'll
kick
it
off
and
prime
header
and
johannes
and
jump
in,
but
I
think
you're,
that's
that's.
Definitely
what
we're
hearing
and
it
comes
back
to
kind
of
peter's
comments
around
there's,
not
like
one
group
of
people
with
one
preference
or
one
need.
We
know
that.
There's
definitely,
and
I
think
this
is
where
this
is.
You
know,
from
a
staff's
perspective,
I
think
council's
compensation
in
may
was
very
much
focused
around
the
ich
and
bell
park
area.
E
B
E
B
Aware
of
other
individuals,
that
would
pattern,
not
necessarily
be
you
know
in
that
area,
for
a
variety
of
reasons.
We
also
know
that
some
individuals,
even
if
they're
not
like
we,
also
know
that
again
some
of
these
individuals,
although
it's
fluid-
and
we
also
don't
want
to
point
out
where
everybody
is
because
there's
lots
of
concerns
around
it,
but
may
also
not
even
access
any
of
these
sanctions
sites.
So
we
we
are
looking
at
that,
but
then
again
finding
a
space.
That's
that's
appropriate.
It's
definitely
not
super
straightforward
joanna.
I
Yeah,
I
mean
we've
heard
loud
and
clear
and
so
has
counsel
that
there
are
a
number
of
individuals
and
their
support
teams
that
believe
that
encampments
might
be
in
their
clients
best
interest
for
a
period
of
time
to
echo.
Peter's
concerns
around
that
just
being
sort
of
a
a
new
homelessness
initiative.
I
I
So
really
one
of
the
main
functions
I
think,
of
of
a
preferred
location
is
that
staff
will
be
able
to
find
their
clients
a
little
easier,
potentially
and
again,
working
in
sort
of
engagement,
tactics
to
try
and
link
them
up
to
services
and
supports
and
to
continue
to
offer
those
so
that
individuals
are
moving
through
the
continuum
of
housing.
Knowing
as
mentioned
on
many
occasions.
So
there
really
is
a
there's.
No
one-size-fits-all
remedy
for
this.
D
With
the
sleeping
cabins,
obviously,
it
was
very
challenging
to
find
locations
because
of
the
services,
and
it
looks
to
me,
like
the
campaigns,
need
the
same
services
as
the
sleeping
cabins,
but
the
benefits
with
the
sleeping
cabins
were
those
low
numbers
like
that.
10
people
with
great
service
very
much
supportive
of
the
community
engagement
and
people
took
ownership,
and
it
was
such
a
positive
experience.
D
So
that
leads
me
to
two
questions:
is
it
possible
to
kind
of
replicate
that
in
almost
every
district,
but
maybe
on
a
smaller
level
and
services
might
could
be
a
little
bit
reduced?
I
also
had
a
question
about
portable
toilets
being
four
thousand
dollars.
That
sounds
like
a
lot,
and
I
was
just
trying
to
to
to
to
check
with
my
husband
I
didn't
answer
back,
but
we
used
like
construction
industry
uses
portable
toilets.
I
didn't
think
they
were
four
thousand
a
month
but
yeah.
I
guess
more.
D
I
just
fear
that
large
model
like
when
I
saw
the
60,
I
think
that's
problematic,
like
we're.
Not
that's
not
giving
the
individual
need
like
if
people
might
like
have
experienced
so
much
trauma.
They
need
to
be
on
their
own
or
they
need
to
have
that
space
and
they
can't
be
part
of
that
success.
So
we're
not
really
solving
it,
and
I
don't
see
a
shelter
system
part
of
the
permanent
solution
either.
That's
not
all
of
these
things
are
just
all
just
temporary
solutions.
Right.
B
Thank
you,
counselor
dorothy,
I'm
happy
to
comment
on
a
few
of
your
questions.
So,
first
of
all
on
the
cabins,
we
are
definitely
seeing
some
interesting
findings
through
that
project.
Keep
in
mind
that
that's
a
fully
staffed
model,
so
24
7
staffing,
which
does
not
necessarily
fit
with
council's
direction
of
the
low-cost
solution
for
for
the
for
the
sanctioned
encampment
approach.
B
But
it's
definitely
something
that
we're
again
that
we're
looking
at
we're,
obviously
proposing
some
additional
cabins,
but
we're
also
coming
back
to
council,
hopefully
in
august
with
the
future
kind
of
sleeping
cabin
with
some
future
longer-term
sleeping
cabin.
You
know
projects
so
definitely
something
that
we're
learning
from.
But
it's
it's
as
much
as
it's.
You
know
definitely
successful
it's
it's
not
necessarily
it's
a
little
bit
of
a
different
model
with
full
amenities,
kitchen
foods.
B
You
know
showers.
All
of
that,
so
I
think
it
definitely
is
interesting
to
learn
from
because
of
the
porta
potties.
This
is
based
on
our
you
know.
Previous
encampment
support
the
bell
park,
encampment
some
of
the
quarter
parties
and
the
costs
that
are
currently
at
the
integrated
care
hub.
The
cost
of
renting
them
is
one,
but
also
the
cost
of
cleaning
them
is
another
and-
and
we've
just
done
our
analysis
based
on
what
we
learned
over
the
last
two
years.
B
B
You
know
pretend
that
that's
not
happening,
but
it
is,
and
then
the
skill
of
this
site
is
to
clarify
that
we
are
not
opposing
one
side
with
60
people,
but
that
we're
looking
at
a
multitude
of
sites
that
total
approximately
60,
knowing
that
that's
based
on
the
numbers
that
we
have
now,
knowing
that
not
everybody
will
will
be
on
this
site.
So
it's
not
sixty
and
one,
but
we
would
look
at
two
more
two
sites.
D
I'm
just
good
yeah
thanks
just
one
more
question
and
are
we:
how
much
are
we
exploring,
including
the
residents
the
individuals
as
in?
Could
we
hire
them
to
do
cleanup?
Can
we?
How
can
we
empower
them
to
be
really
part
of
the
system
and
also
pay
them
for
that,
so
that
they
have
some
resources
to
to
to
help
move
on.
B
D
A
G
That
thank
you
and
I
look
forward
to
getting
the
slide
deck.
This
is
my
third
of
four
meetings
today,
so
I'm
I
definitely
need
to
look
it
over
again
and
I'd
appreciate
that
a
couple
of
things
I
was
curious.
Why,
and
perhaps
you've
done
this
in
a
different
context,
but
why
we
haven't
spoken
to
them
about
what
seems
to
be
a
real
reluctance
to
use
shelters
even
when
there
seems
to
be
available
bids-
and
I
know,
probably
in
a
different
time,
a
different
context.
You've
asked
those
questions.
G
B
I'm
happy
to
start
and
joanne
will
jump
in
as
well,
so
we
do
have
actually
multitude
of
providers.
We
have
included
the
warming
center
in
the
system
on
concession
streets.
We
have
the
integrated
care
hub.
We
still
have
actually
a
quite
successful
housing
focused
shelter
at
home-based
housing.
We
have
motel
overflow
self-isolation.
B
G
Are
I
appreciate
that
all
of
those
are
I
hate
to
kind
of
suggest
they
were
kind
of
emergency
situations
where
we've
gone
to
integrated
care
hub
which
had
surplus
and
therefore
we
gave
them
an
opportunity
to
to
have
fif
50
additional
sites.
I
believe
is
the
number
and
a
warming
center,
which
is
still
operational
even
after
winter.
G
But
those
are,
I
wouldn't,
define
those
as
as
shelters
in
my
mind,
because
they
are
necessarily
you
might
get
a
mattress.
You
won't
get
a
bed
in
most
of
those
situations,
so
so
that
and
council-
I
see
councillor
hutchinson
is
here
today
and
that's
good,
because
when
I
first
returned
to
council-
and
he
was
on
council
for
even
longer.
G
J
B
We
are
all
seeing
this
the
real
issues
of
not
having
been
able
to
invest
for
the
last
30
years
in
affordable
housing,
the
the
pandemic,
the
low
social
assistance
rates.
We
are
an
imposing
crisis.
Nobody
is
arguing
that
we
all
know
that,
and
I
think
we
just
have
to
as
a
community,
accept
that
and
look
at
a
multitude
of
solutions.
B
We
need
to
continue
to
invest
in
sorry,
I'm
going
to
ramble
on
for
a
little
bit,
but
we
need
to
continue
to
invest
in
housing.
First,
prevention
diversion
we've
all
learned
from
the
really
hard
work
that
you
as
a
committee
have
done
as
well.
Over
the
last
two
years
that
we
need
to
focus
on
prevention,
we
need
to
focus
on
dedicated
housing
for
supports
for
people
to
keep
people
fined
and
keep
people
host.
B
B
We
need
supportive
housing.
Some
people
will
just
not
function
in
the
shelter
they
will.
Just
they
just
need
to
be
able
to
go
to
a
safe
place.
They
may
need
to
be
in
a
place
where
they
can
continue
to
utilize
substances
and
get
the
right
supports.
They
may
need
to
go
to
rehabilitation.
They
may
need
to
have
to
go
to
long-term
care.
There
is
so
many
different
situations,
sleeping
cabins.
You
know,
I
guess
what
I'm
saying
is
come
to
meal.
B
There
is
definitely
so
many
conversations
happening
in
the
system
to
make
sure
that
we
have
the
right
balance
between
shelter,
transitional
supportive
health
services
to
really
do
our
best
to
to
provide
people
with
options,
but
I
think
it
was
also,
I
think
something
that
came
across
loud
and
clear.
I
think
in
the
special
council
meeting
that
you
were
part
of
that
you
know
what
is
what
is,
you
know,
actually
appropriate
housing.
How
much
can.
G
Anyway,
yeah,
I
appreciate
that
we
have
done
a
number
of
transitional
housing
projects
which
I'm
very
supportive
of
and
some
of
those
shelter
providers
in
the
past
transitioned
into
providing
providing
those
transitional
housing.
Don
house
has
ryandale,
has
and
so
they've
taken
their
skill
set
and
no
longer
operate
a
shelter,
but
they
now
operate.
G
Transitional
housing,
which
I
I
think
is
is
is
excellent
and
it's
they
do
a
good
job
of
that.
And
so
I
appreciate
that
and
I'm
glad
councillor
hutchinson
is
here
today
because
he
has
been
lobbying
for
decades
for
more
affordable
housing
and
clearly
we
need
to
make
the
capital
investment
now
that
the
province
and
the
feds
don't
make
as
much.
G
I
I
think
you
raised
a
really
good
point,
though,
when
you
ask
why
some
individuals
will
not
go
to
shelter.
There's
two
main
reasons
for
that.
First
and
foremost,
home-based
housing
has
been
given
a
very
difficult
task
of
running
a
housing
first
focused
shelter,
so
the
mandate
has
been
that
they
work
with
individuals
who
are
looking
and
contemplating
finding
permanent,
long-term
housing.
That's
their
actual
mandate.
Their
mandate
is
not
to
just
bring
in
people
to
have
a
bed
overnight
and
I
think
there's
a
little
bit
of
misconception
about
that
within
the
community.
G
I
totally
support
the
whole
concept
of
housing
first,
but
there
are
people
in
situations
where
they
aren't
housing.
First,
at
this
time
in
their
life,
they
aren't
housing
first
candidates,
they
need
a
shelter,
and
I
find
it
troubling
that
that
we're
suggesting
well,
if
you're,
not
housing.
First,
this
shelter
is
not
for
you,
so
I've
spoken
too
long
I'll
turn
over
the
mic
to
somebody
else.
I
think
andy's
ready.
F
F
Everybody
has
a
situation,
but
I
feel
the
biggest
things
for
somebody
who
is
unhoused
is
the
ability
to
be
able
to
start
trusting,
and
it
doesn't
make
no
words
whether
it's
an
organization,
a
person,
the
city
council,
they
need
to
feel
that
they
are
able
to
be
safe
and
that
they
can
trust
that
they
will
get
the
help.
So
for
me,
personally,
I'm
quite
excited
to
see
how
this
thing
is
going
to
go
the
fact
of
doing
a
number
of
encampments
too.
F
I
am
really
happy
about
because
again,
some
people
do
not
need
the
full
supports
of
the
hub.
A
lot
do,
but
some
don't
so
for
those
who
don't
need
the
hub
services
to
be
able
to
be
somewhere
else,
that
is
more
secure
for
them
and
that
the
outreach
workers
can
go
and
be
with
them
and
help
them,
and
you
know
they
can
still
feel
safe,
is
wonderful.
F
So
even
though
the
the
women
may
move
on,
we
we
still
support,
so
it
doesn't
make
no
odds
how
long
somebody
is
dealing
with
something
knowing
that
they
have
the
opportunity
and
the
trust
from
a
group
to
say,
hey,
I
still
need
help,
is
so
vital
a
lot
of
it.
Sometimes
people
look
at
a
person
who
is,
for
example,
whether
it's
mental
illness,
whether
they
are
are
using
drugs.
F
F
So
this
this
this
particular
thing
I
I
am
actually
really
excited
about.
To
be
honest
with
you.
One
of
the
questions
I
do
have
is
the
cost.
I
know
the
car.
I
can't
remember
the
cost
that
was
for
the
tiny,
tiny
homes,
but
is
it
going
to
be
in
comparison,
the
actual
looking
at
the
encampments?
Are
we
looking
at
that
type
of
a
figure?
Because,
if
that's
the
case
to
me,
it's
it's
pretty
reasonable,
but
yeah.
That's
that's
the
only
real
comments
I
wanted
to
make.
F
B
I
don't
know
what
the
definition
of
low
cost
is,
but
based
on
what
we
kind
of
know
on
what
this
is,
how
much
a
certain
amenity
costs
and
I'm
just
looking
at
my
screen
on
another
screen,
so
I'm
paying
attention
that
I
just
wanted
to
have
a
look,
and
don't
quote
us
on
this,
but
just
some
facts
again.
You
know,
friends
is
a
portable
one,
portable
toilets.
B
We
estimate
about
four
thousand
dollars
per
units
per
month,
including
cleaning
which
could
be
less
if
it's
not
as
you
know,
but
we
kind
of
want
to
just
have
a
sense
of
that.
We
looking
at
dumb
disturbance
and
and
obviously
the
cost
of
dose,
which
is
estimated
at
about
five
thousand
dollars
per
month
per
bin.
B
We're
also
looking,
obviously
at
like
what
does
this
mean
from
a
staffing
perspective
like
do
we
need
additional
by-law
staff
staff,
for
instance
that
will
come
and-
and
you
know,
do
a
check
daily
to
see
if
things
are
are
going
or
if
the
simple
rights
and
responsibilities
are
actually
being
lived
by.
I
guess
we
are
not
again
suggesting
again
that
we
are,
we
don't
feel
like
council
has
asked
us
to
come
back
with
also
a
full
staffing
model
for
this.
B
It
appears
to
us
based
on
the
motion
that
the
council
is
really
asking
to
say:
what's
a
low-cost
low
rule
kind
of
approach,
which
you
know
we
so
to
cost,
can
really
range.
We
also
see
other
communities
again.
If
there's
a
there's,
there's
models
out
there
that
are
fully
staffed,
24
7.,
that
really
you
know,
become
quite
costly,
so
I
think
the
predicament
that
we're
in
because
I
think
everybody
will
agree
that
we
that
we
don't
want
to
see
this
as
an
ongoing.
B
You
know
you
know
solution
that
it
really
needs
to
be
a
temporary
approach
and
then
work
with
those
people
in
the
sites
to
then
get
into
more
permanent
solutions.
We
need
to
look
at
like
some
sort
of
exit
plan
or
like
how
do
we
at
some
point
say?
Okay,
this
this
was
like.
This
is
the
next
step
and
as
mentioned
by
you,
ms
white's,
I
think
it's
also
looking
at
other
solutions.
So
how
do
we
look
at
instances?
B
So
the
staffing
and
again,
I
think
this
is
also
because
the
provider
is
putting
in
a
lot
of
volunteer.
Time
has
been
fairly.
You
know
affordable
but
again,
like
those
are
all
pieces
that
continue
to
be
a
little
bit
fluid
just
because
we're
trying
like,
but
we
also,
I
guess
the
last
thing
I
will
say
is
we
are
seeing
different
types
of
costs
and
models
in
other
communities.
B
I
think
we're
all
looking
at
following
toronto
and
how
they're
approaching
things
with
bringing
in
security
to
secure
parks,
to
prevent
people
from
camping
in
parks
we're
seeing,
I
think,
join.
I
think
it
was
hamilton
that
spent
about
60
thousand
dollars
a
month
on
some
of
the
garbage
removal
of
our
downtown
encampments.
F
F
Because
now
we
talk
about
you
know
it's
going
to
cost
4
000
to
use
the
washroom,
but
how
much
would
it
cost
if
they
weren't
using
the
hub,
and
we
had
to
have
the
paramedics
come
to
save
somebody's
life?
That's
that
that's!
What
I'm
kind
of
looking
at
is
the
overall
cost.
So
it's
the
expense
against.
F
B
Have
that
in
my
back
pocket,
but
I
do
the
one
thing
I
would
like
to
comment
on,
if
I
may
just
for
food
for
thought,
I
think
is
that
and
clearly
we
don't
have
all
the
answers
here.
That's
why
we're
also
like
once
you
have
this
conversation,
but
if
we
go,
if
council
says
yes
to
dedicated
encampments,
there
certainly
will
be
some
savings
in
one
way,
but
I
think
we
also
need
to
continue
to
keep
in
mind
that
it
doesn't
mean
that
everybody
is
going
to
camping
those
dedicated
sites.
B
We
will
have
people
that
will
still
be
that
we
still
need
to
move
around
because
they
are
not
choosing
to
camp
there.
There
might
be
there
might
be
issues
we
may
need
to
like.
We
also
need
to
look
at
how
do
we
approach
that?
What
if
something
is
really
not
working
and
we
may
need
to
you-
know
close
something
down
like
I'm
just.
I
think
we
just
need
to
really
have
a
an
honest
and
transparent
conversation
around
yes,
and
I
think
joanne
mentioned
this
earlier.
B
We
definitely
see
you
know
an
opportunity
to
have
people
in
a
dedicated
place
and
kind
of
know
where
people
are
at
so
we
can
provide
services,
but
it
doesn't
mean
that
that's
them
preventing
any
other
encampments
from
popping
up
or
cleaning
or
other.
You
know,
issues
that
need
to
be
addressed
or
ems
services
needing
to
go
into
other
locations,
and
that
was
that's
what
we've
heard
from
partners
as
well.
H
H
Indeed,
maybe
part
of
the
presentation
to
counsel,
because
we
we
we
quite
often
focus
on
the
cost
of
doing
things
and
and
we
miss
the
cost
of
not
doing
things
both
in
in
financial
and
and
in
human
terms,
and
one
of
the
difficulties
that
we
have
in
ontario,
unlike
other
jurisdictions
like
alberta,
is
that
we
run
a
really
diverse
budget
system.
If
we
were
in
ontario,
if
we
were
in
alberta,
everything
comes
out
of
the
same
pot.
H
So
so,
if
you're
saving
fifty
thousand
dollars
on
on
on
ems,
then
that
that
can
you
know
you,
you
can
move
that
a
whole
lot
easier.
So
just
you
know
when,
when
andy
said
that
I
thought
gee,
that's
that
that's
a
really
good
good
thing
to
to
bring
to
council
the
question
I
have
as
we've
been
been
talking
about
this
and
thinking
about
it
is,
is
how
do
we
deal
with
or
or
what's
the
plan?
B
I
think
that's
through
you
random
chair.
It
is
an
excellent
question
and
it's
something
that
I
think
we
I
mean
speaking
on
behalf
of
staff.
I
know
again.
This
is
obviously
this.
This
work
is
focused
and
based
on
how
do
we
support
our
the
members
of
our
community
that
are
currently
unhoused
in
encampments
in
kingston
it
it?
It
really
creates
a
bit
of
a
polarizing
conversation
like
harvey.
You
know,
for
instance,
we've
been
thinking
like.
Ideally
this.
B
This
would
be
focused
on
individuals
that
want
to
be
accessing
services
that
want
to
kind
of
be
part
of
a
coordinated
intake
and
and
really
like
as
a
temporary
solution.
Are
you
know,
staying
in
encampments,
but
how
we
you
know,
are
we
going
to
say
sorry?
You
cannot
come
here
because
you're
not
from
kingston
or
sorry,
you
you
know
are,
are
not
currently
camping,
but
you
just
were
evicted,
but
now
you
are
not
able
to
access
this.
B
It
is
a
really
tough
question
and
I
think
that
that's,
I
think,
what
the
whole
system
as
a
province
is
a
community
as
a
country
is
struggling
with.
We
know
belleville
rockville
smith
falls
like
we
do
see.
People
come
to
kingston,
but,
on
the
other
hand,
there's
also
individuals
from
kingston
that
that
come
to
other
services
and
other
communities.
So
it's
a
really
challenging
question
that
I
think,
is
a
really
great
question
to
raise
because
it's
just
yeah
as
a
city.
B
A
Thank
you
so
much,
and
thank
you
for
all
of
the
comments
and
the
questions
from
our
committee.
I
will
just
speak
last
from
the
committee,
but
a
couple
of
things
as
as
everybody
asked
their
questions
and
thank
you
so
much
to
ruth
and
joanne
for,
for
speaking
and
and
helping
to
answer
today.
I
wanted
to
say
you
know
I
in
your
presentation.
A
It
really
struck
me
when
I
read
you
know
reducing
homelessness,
not
managing
it,
and
I
think
that
that's
a
really
important
thing
to
keep
in
mind.
We
need
to
find
a
way
to
reduce
homelessness.
So
with
that
in
mind,
the
idea
of
like
home-based
housing
with
housing
first
I
mean
it's
so
critical.
This
is
this
is
what
we
need.
You
know
we
we
need
to
make
sure
that
that
transitional,
housing
and
then
to
permanent
housing
is,
is
the
number
one
goal
and
priority
we
need
to
make
that
happen.
A
I
do
know
that
in
many
cases
not
everybody
wants
that
and
that
that
is
also
a
challenge
in
and
of
itself-
and
I
know
you
know
that
that
we're
working
you
know
towards
doing
the
best
we
can
to
house.
I
I
like
the
idea
of
the
city
of
kingston
being
a
leader
in
so
many
ways,
and
you
know
I
hope
to
you,
know
to
peter's
point.
You
know:
are
we
going
to
have
more
people
come
to
kingston?
A
I
think
it
was
last
year
I
remember
reading
about
about
it
at
the
time,
and
somebody
had
spoken
to
that
feeling
of
community
that
existed
at
that
time.
While
they
were
involved
in
camping-
and
you
know
it
struck
me
that
feeling
of
community
and
then,
of
course,
you
know
now
the
idea
of
the
proximity
to
the
integrated
care
hub,
where
this
is
the
encampment.
A
So
I
think
the
idea
of
the
of
the
encampment
does
provide
both
a
sense
of
independence
and
a
sense
of
community,
so
I
mean
all
to
say:
I
really
appreciated
that
presentation.
I
think
there
were
some
some
major
points
there
and
you
know
it
also.
It
really,
you
know,
got
me
thinking.
I
I
had
previously
viewed
it
in
sort
of
a
more
simplistic
way,
but
you
know
I
can
see,
there's
there's
a
lot
more.
That
would
need
to
be
involved
here
and
the
reality
is
that's
exactly
what
needs
to
happen.
A
I
mean
those
services
are.
What
is
so
critical?
I
mean
the
base
route
of
all
of
these
issues
is
what
we
need
to
be
addressing.
This
is
this.
This
is
a
step.
This
is
like
a
step
in
that,
but
but
the
base
root
of
those
issues,
so
we
we
really
need
to
wrap
that
community
in
as
much
as
we
can
of
support.
How
much
support
can
can
we
provide?
I
see
some
some
nodding
heads,
so
thank
you
so
so
I
think
that
that's
it
for
me.
A
I
don't
really
have
any
questions.
I
think
there
are
some
really
wonderful
questions.
I
just
wanted
to
to
make
those
notes.
I
don't
know
if
anybody
that's
anything.
I
don't
want
to
say,
like
I
just
said
my
comments
and
I'm
done,
but
many
many
wants
to
say
anything
to
that
or
if
I
said
anything
I'm
out
of
space
okay
great.
So
I
will.
I
will
next
look
to
miss
fossett.
If
you
can
share
with
me,
if
there's
anybody
from
the
public
with
us.
C
C
J
Hi,
thank
you.
I
don't
have
a
lot
to
say.
I
found
this
conversation
really
helpful
and
I
appreciate
all
the
work
staff
have
done
so
far.
I
just
had
one
quick
question,
which
is
about
broader
community
consultation.
I
saw
that
there
was
a
reference
to
that
starting
on
june
20th.
Will
that
be
primarily
through
the
get
involved
page,
and
so
we
can
just
keep
our
eyes
peeled.
There.
B
B
You
know
opposite
interests
in
being
part
of
that,
so,
and
I
think
you're
on
that
list
too.
So
there's
definitely
going
to
be
some
some
communication
around
that
we
recognize
it's
very
short
notice,
but
we
really
would
like
to
hear
from
as
many
community
groups
and
individuals
that
would
like
to
share
their
items
and
also,
if
people
through
to
get
involved
site
for
whatever
reason
people
are
not
able
to
join.
We
will
also
have
another
way
for
people
to
to
share
their
thoughts.
J
A
D
Thanks
and
through
madam
chair,
I'm
just
trying
to
visualize
it,
because
I
think
mr
nordograph
was
correct,
it's
complicated.
So
now
I'm
trying
to
imagine
what
happens
when
on
on
june
29th
when
council
votes
on
this
and
unfortunately
I
won't
be
able
to
attend
that
meeting.
But
what
happens
if
we
support
the
plan?
What's
the
timing
and
say
we
support
the
plan
and
what
happens
if
a
person
is
still
has
an
equipment
just
going
back
to
peter's
question?
D
B
Thank
you
and
to
you,
madam
chair,
so,
but
there
definitely
will
need
to
be
some
setup
time
which,
which
perhaps
you're
also
trying
to
work
through
for
the
for
the
dedicated
location.
Should
council
want
to
go
that
route
we,
but
what
we
do
recommend
that
you
know
we
have
an
encampment
protocol
that
doesn't
technically
allow
individuals
to
camp
in
city,
owned
parks
and
properties
and
and
private
properties,
but
that's
not
something
that
we
as
a
city
obviously
does
not
have
as
much
jurisdiction
over.
B
If
that
makes
sense
and
that's
what
we're
seeing
in
other
jurisdictions,
it's
like
quite
like
it's
a
sanction
or
dedicated
kind
of
approach,
but
then
also
no
ability
to
obviously
be
camping
in
other
locations.
So
we
are
bringing
both
pieces
forward
in
the
same
report
we
do
have
to.
Obviously
the
encampment
protocol
contains
a
couple
of
other
components
we
may
and
again
we
don't
know
like
if
council
is
going
to
support
this.
So
if
they're
not,
then
maybe
again,
we
still
have
the
two
motions
on
the
table
as
well.
B
So
there
will
be
a
setup
time
that
we
obviously
will
try
to
speak
to
to
the
best
of
our
ability
and
some
sort
of
transition
time,
as
well
with
with
the
protocol
and
and
this
pilot
project,
and
then
there's
also
what's
happening
after
the
pilot
project
and
and
how
do
we?
How
do
we
move
ahead
with
that?
So
this
is
by
no
means
a
very
straightforward
situation,
but
we're,
I
think
doing
the
best
we
can
with
offering
all
the
information,
giving
some
recommendations
and
suggestions,
but
but
also
really
rely
on.
B
B
I
think
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
really
bring
forward.
Some
of
you
know
different
solutions
that
will
not,
ideally
again,
this
is
maybe
being
a
bit
pollyanna,
but
ideally
we
would
not
have
to
be
in
the
position.
We
do.
We-
and
I
mentioned
it
in
the
presentation-
we're
looking
at
additional
transition,
housing
capacity,
some
emergency
housing-
that
we
want
to
ask
council
to
approve
as
well
in
late
june,
and
also
next
week.
We
will
be
coming
to
council
with
the
procurements
of
the
system.
B
B
We
will
be
looking
at
a
more
longer
term
permanent
sleeping
cabin
project,
so
I
think
we're
really
trying
to
bring
more
than
just
like
a
band-aid
solution,
but
really
looking
at
kind
of
actual,
as
as
ms
claudia
mentioned,
we
really
want
to,
I
think,
get
the
community
together
to
look
at.
How
do
we
reduce
knowing
it's
like?
You
know
microscope
telescope
that
we
do
have
a
real
issue
now.
That
requires
short-term
band-aid
type
solutions.
B
A
C
A
E
E
One
thing
I've
thought
is
directed
to
in
listening
to
this
to
staff
is
a
lot
of
the
answers
say
there
are
people?
Are
you
know,
homeless
people
like
in
this
situation
in
that
situation
and
another
one
and
it
it
tends
to
make
me
think
that
first
of
all,
I
take
the
approach
that
we
have
to.
We
have
to
approach
this
as
homeless.
E
But
that
tells
us
where
we
want
to
ask
the
province
for
more
money
or
more
investment.
In
other
words,
if
our
data
is
is
is
more
precise,
then
we
can
start
to
be
more
precise
about
how
we
approach
these
things
and
realize,
what's
likely
to
work
and
what
isn't
and
we
have
outreach
workers.
We
have
our
own
city
workers,
but
some
of
the
comments
about
wraparound
services
and
that
that's
going
to
take
more
expertise
and
more
boots
on
the
ground.
I
think
than
maybe
we've
got
at
the
moment.
E
Well,
toronto
has
estimated
that
at
20.
So
if
we
say
there
are
200
homeless
people
in
kingston,
which
is
a
number
that
we've
come
up
with,
staff,
is
estimated
at
135.
The
last
report,
I
think
so,
somewhere
between
40
and
27..
So
I
know
how
many
there
are
we'll
know
where.
Perhaps
we
can
focus
our
our
our
resources
better
and
sort
of
try
to
whittle
away
at
those
different
subgroups
and.
I
E
People
into
different
situations,
the
other
ones,
is
from
out
of
town.
The
last
numbers
staff
estimated
this
report
last
year,
I
think,
and
perhaps
other
counselors
can
our
staff
can
help
me
out
here,
but
I
think
it
was
around
20,
so
the
same
numbers
40
to
27
so
depending
on
what
you
think
the
population
is,
so
I'm
encouraging.
E
I
don't
know
if
staff
has
where
the
resources
that
do
this,
but
to
deal
with
this,
I
think
we
need
to
be
more
precise
about
what
we've
got
and
what
the
situation
is.
Incidentally,
one
other
reason.
I
just
want
to
add
this
note,
because
I've
got
calls
about
this
from
people.
One
of
the
other
reasons.
People
don't
stay
in
the
shelters
is
violence
and
theft,
and
I
get
that
from
people
who
have
been
homeless
and
it's
not.
E
The
fault
of
staff,
of
course,
is
going
on
without
their
knowledge
and
no
one's
fessing
up
to
it.
So
because,
partly
because
staff
can't
put
their
finger
on
who's
perpetuating
this
and,
of
course,
although
they
do
get
people
and
it's
one
of
the
reasons
you're
denied
entry
so
or
more
often
it's
drugs.
I
know
this
photographer
coming
from
the
cold.
It's
drugs
and
the
violence
isn't
just
about
connected
to
other
inhabitants
of
the
the
shelter
but
staff
as
well.
E
B
B
So
we
do
have
every
client
a
very
good
understood.
We
do
intakes
and
and
we
prioritize
needs-
and
so
so
there
certainly
are
kind
of
sub
groups.
I
guess
between
and
that's
a
really
important
notion,
and
I
think
it's
also
helpful
to
just
continue
to
repeat
that
as
a
community
that
we
cannot
look
at.
How
do
we
create
this
one
solution,
because
this
one
solution
is
not
going
to
work
for
everybody.
However,
housing
first
is
kind
of
our
our
focus
housing.
First,
you
know.
B
Ultimately,
everybody
needs
to
find
appropriate
housing
for
for
their
situation,
so
I
mean
obviously
we
cannot,
you
know,
share.
You
know
kind
of
the
specifics
of
every
individual,
but
we
definitely
do
have
a
fairly
good
understanding
of
for
those
that
do
go
through
the
intake
and
and
are
you
know,
in
our
system
or
in
this
system
we
do
have
kind
of
also
the
ability
to
prioritize
based
on
acuity
levels.
B
Again,
it
goes
back
to,
I
think,
the
availability
of
services
and
the
availability
of
providing
people
with
with,
for
instance,
we
have,
as
you
mentioned,
or,
for
instance,
you
know
for
them
kind
of
appropriate
housing.
It's
it's
a
matter
of
how
do
we?
How
do
we
best
prioritize
and
to
your
points,
peel
off
those
different
layers
of
the
onion
and
address
those
different
solutions
in
the
community
I
think
joanne
or
for
heather.
B
B
I
guess
the
different
levels
of
acuity,
the
the
health
and
safety,
the
the
the
potential
risks
as
well
of
of
this,
and
how
we
look
at
some
some
ways
of
mitigating
any
potential
violence
or
even
like
you
know,
knowing
that
there's
also
some
potential
of
people
that
are
being
attracted
to
some
of
these
sanctioned
enchantments.
To
actually
just
look
at
you
know,
drug
trafficking
or
other
undesirable,
vocal
behaviors.
So
I
think
I
think
we
need
to
just
have
an
honest
conversation
about
that
as
well.
I
I
So,
as
we
start
to
work
on
finding
housing,
my
belief
is
that
we
do
need
to
stick
with
as
difficult
as
it
is,
and
given
our
current
housing
climate
in
this
community
in
communities
across
ontario
and
canada
at
large,
we
have
to
still
focus
on
the
fact
that
every
single
individual,
who's,
homeless
or
unhoused
the
way
to
assist
them
is
to
get
them
housing.
And
so
that's
going
to
take
many
different
paths
for
individuals.
I
But
the
reality
of
the
housing
first
model
is
the
assessments
that
we
provide
to
each
individual
drill
down
into
very,
very
detailed
information
about
that
individual,
so
that
their
case
managers
truly
have
a
good
understanding
and
knowledge
of
what
that
individual's
needs
might
be,
but
also
what
their
hopes
are,
what
their
wants
and
their
basic
needs.
We
just
can't
share
that
information
with
the
greater
public
because
it
is
highly
confidential
and
very
private
and
absolutely
to
your
point
around
violence
within
shelter,
settings
drop-ins,
all
sorts
of
organizations.
I
That
too
is
not
a
kingston
problem.
That
is
that's
a
nation
problem
and
not
just
within
the
homeless
population
or
in
house
population,
but
in
a
number
of
different
congregate
settings
where
we
find
that
individuals
who
are
marginalized,
our
big
do
often
become
a
target
for
for
crime
and
are
easier
to
take
advantage
of
in
some
instances
based
on
the
fact,
even
just
basic
geographic
locations.
So
we
do
have
to
every
solution
that
we
look
at.
G
Thank
you.
I
think
counselor
hutchinson
is
dead
on
when
he
says
probably
up
to,
and
I
don't
know
if
we
keep
stats
like
this,
but
up
to
20
of
the
people
who
are
homeless
here
come
from
somewhere
else,
but
the
reality
is
they
are
kingston's
homeless
if
they
came
from
from
napanee
yesterday
and
they're
in
kingston,
they're
kingston's
problem
at
that
point
in
time,
and-
and
likewise
I
wouldn't
be
surprised
at
all-
if
20
of
the
people
who
live
in
the
rough
or
live
intense,
really
aren't
interested
in
finding
an
alternative.
G
G
We
are
a
kind
of
regional
hub
and
regional
hubs,
the
same
as
if
you
were
in
toronto.
Regional
hubs
attract
people
from
away
and
that
doesn't
diminish
that
doesn't
help
the
fact
that
we
have
to
find
adequate
housing
or
a
more
comfortable
way
for
them
to
survive
when
they
come
to
kingston,
whether
they've
been
here
for
decades
or
two
days,
the
reality
is
when
they
come
here.
G
We
need
to
assist
them
in
whatever
ways
they
need
and
that's
frustrating
to
taxpayers
and
everybody
on
the
screen.
Right
now
is
a
taxpayer
in
kingston.
I
think
so
it
so
it
is
a
frustration,
but
it's
a
reality
and
it's
reality
that
we
can't
we
can
whine
about.
But
that's
all
that
we
can
do
because
it's
they're
our
responsibility
when
they're
here.
B
Thank
you
and
to
you,
madam
sheriff.
I
dismay.
I
think
it's
it's
it's
a
delicate
conversation
that,
even
on
a
regional
and
provincial
level,
you
know
needs
some
attention.
I
think
implementing
a
provincial
white
by
nameless
approach
and
some
consistency
with
data
will
help
us
also
better
understand
the
provincial
challenge
and
instead
of
just
really
looking
at
a
localized,
you
know
situation.
B
What
I
will
kind
of
share
is
obviously
the
challenge
that
we
face,
and
I
mean,
of
course
we're
all
here,
because
we
care-
and
we
want
to
come
up
with
real
solutions-
is
that
our
provincial
funding
does
not
necessarily
equate
you
know
in
in
kind
of
the
potential
regional.
You
know
center
for
some
of
these
human
and
social
service
needs,
and
I
think
that
that
is,
you
know
again,
there's
a
reality
of
how
we
need
to
have
that
conversation.
B
I
think
what
we
as
staff
really
would
like
to
focus
on
is
again.
We
want
to
focus
on
reduce
problem,
not
manage,
and
we
want
to
focus
on.
How
can
we
really
somebody
is
choosing
to
be
in
kingston
if
they're
from
kingston
or
coming
to
kingston,
then
we
do
want
to
set
some.
You
know
kind
of
guidelines
or
expectations
of
this
individual
to
engage
in
services
and
and
and
we
try
to
kind
of
also
again
help
them.
C
J
Thank
you
so
much.
Madam
chair,
I
just
have
a
few
questions
that
I
maybe
I'll
ask
all
together,
so
that
I
don't
have
to
have
as
much
back
and
forth
if
there's
time
just
about
the
rules
and
regulations
for
the
encampment
sites,
I'm
just
wondering
if
people
who
are
currently
camping
have
been
consulted
or
have
shown
a
draft
of
those
rules
just
to
be
able
to
comment
on
how
to
make
it
work.
J
J
You
know
what
will
happen
if
this
sort
of
incentivizes
people
to
leave
housing
to
move
to
an
encampment-
and
I
just
think
people
who
are
currently
living
in
encampments-
might
have
some
solutions
and
ideas
about
how
to
respond
to
some
of
the
challenges
that
staff
are
trying
to
figure
out,
and
I
just
wanted
to
encourage
the
you
know
consider
talking
to
them
about
some
of
that.
If
that
hasn't
already
happened,
and
I
had
a
question
about
the
housing
first
model,
does
our
approach
to
housing?
J
First,
in
kingston
require
that
people
need
to
meet
certain
rules
before
they
will
be
helped
with
finding
a
home.
So,
for
example,
do
they
need
to
be
sober,
or
you
know
that
kind
of
thing,
or
can
you
access
help
with
with
finding
a
home,
regardless
of
your
circumstances
and
realities
thanks?
Those
are
all
my
questions.
B
B
I
Thank
you
ruth
and
through
you
that's
a
great
question.
Our
housing
first
model
in
kingston
resembles
the
true
housing
first
model
in
that
we
believe
that
everybody
has
the
right
to
work
towards
accessing
housing.
So
individuals
do
not
need
to
be
substance.
Free
their
mental
health
does
not
need
to
be
treated
individuals
through
the
housing
first
model.
The
belief
is
that
once
individuals
are
housed
in
that
safe
place,
that
is
where
they
can
then
thrive,
and
the
supports
will
wrap
around
to
ensure
successful
housing
outcomes
for
those
individuals.
I
So
that's
when
they're
linked
up
with
services
such
as
amhs
housing,
first
case
manager
to
ensure
that
they're
able
to
maintain
their
living
accommodations.
So
no,
but
what
what
does
happen
is
challenging
is
if
an
individual
won't
engage
with
a
worker
to
even
have
the
discussions
around
the
housing
first
model.
So
I
don't
want
to
say
that
that
clients,
assertive
engagement,
is
what
our
staff
tends
to
work
towards
to
help
individuals
understand
the
supports
that
are
available
to
them
and
the
access
within
the
community.
I
But
if
somebody
won't
talk
to
us,
then
it's
really
difficult
to
to
move
forward
with
that
or
talk
to
landlords
on
their
behalf
or
do
anything
so
we
do
need
their
informed
consent
in
order
to
work
with
them
and
provide
the
services
and
supports.
But
there's
no
requirements
for
them
to
to
do
anything
other
than
work
with
their
case
managers
and
be
amenable
to
accessing
housing,
supports
hope
that
helps
speaking.
A
Thank
you
so
much
joanne,
and
that
was
just
those
were
awesome
questions
from
our
committee
and
from
miss
jafra.
Thank
you
so
much
so
I
think
that
will
conclude
the
business
portion,
the
briefings
and
business
portion
we're
almost
two
hours
in
from
there.
Thank
you
so
much
everyone
for
for
giving
us
the
the
comments
and
questions
that
that
it
so
deserves,
and
this
report
was
for
information
purposes
only.
There
is
nothing
for
our
committee
to
vote
on.
This
was
again
for
feedback
and
continual
feedback.
A
So
if
you
continue
to
have
more
feedback,
please
send
it
through
to
our
clerk
elizabeth
fossett
she'll
be
happy
to
receive
it.
So
number
eight
is
motions.
We
have
no
motions
number
nine,
there
are
no
notices
of
motion
and
number
ten
is
other
business.
No
other
business
have
been
reviewed
at
the
outset
of
the
agenda
number
eleven.
There
was
no
correspondence
as
well,
and
number
12
is
the
date
of
our
next
meeting.