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From YouTube: Kingston, Ontario – City Council – October 20, 2020
Description
City Council meeting from October 20, 2020 For full meeting agenda visit https://bit.ly/2HoQYfm
A
As
the
mayor
of
the
city
of
kingston,
I
offer
these
words
in
the
spirit
of
this
gathering.
Let
us
bring
our
good
minds
and
hearts
together
as
one
to
honor
and
celebrate
these
traditional
lands
as
the
gathering
place
of
the
original
peoples
and
their
ancestors
who
are
interested
to
care
for
mother
earth
since
time
immemorial,
it
is
with
deep
humility
that
we
acknowledge
and
offer
our
gratitude
for
their
contributions
to
this
community
having
respect
for
all,
as
we
share
the
space
now
and
walk
side
by
side
into
the
future.
A
B
Moved
by
councilor
kylie
seconded
by
councilor
hutchison
that
the
reported
the
committee
of
the
whole
closed
meeting
be
received
and
adopted
it
being
that
council
approved
the
purchase
of
805
ridley
street
for
affordable
housing
purposes
for
a
negotiated
price,
not
to
exceed
two
million.
Two
hundred
and
forty
thousand
plus
closing
costs
of
up
to
fifty
thousand.
B
The
council
approve
up
to
2
million
290
000
for
the
acquisition
of
805
ridley
street
for
affordable,
supportive
housing
to
be
financed
from
the
following
funds:
a
one
million
one
hundred
and
thirty
thousand
from
the
social
services
relief
fund
phase
two
and
the
one
million
one
hundred
and
160
000
from
the
social
housing
reserve
fund
and
the
council
direct
staff
to
submit
an
application
to
the
federal
rapid
housing
funding
for
this
initiative
and
replenish
the
various
funds.
If
the
application
is.
A
A
C
A
You
thank
you.
Are
there
any
other
disclosures,
okay
saying
then
we
will
move
on.
We
have
no
presentations
this
evening.
We
have
no
delegations,
we
have
no
briefings.
Are
there
any
petitions
to
present
okay,
seeing
none?
We
have
no
motions
of
congratulations,
recognition,
sympathy
or
condolences
or
speed
recovery.
A
D
D
That
has
is
happening
at
a
national
level
and
it
has
been
for
some
time,
and
I
think
it
is
therefore
incumbent
on
us,
as
a
city
council,
to
consider
that
fact
and
to
move
forward
with
the
expertise
of
a
group
that
has
done
this
work
with
that
that
very
peace
in
mind.
That
kingston
can
be
the
the
beginning
of
a
national
conversation.
Or
I
mean
it's
happening,
but
the
sort
of
that.
D
Despite
the
fact
of
course,
that
we
are
doing
this
work
on
behalf
of
the
residents
in
kingston,
I
would
argue
that
residents
of
the
state
of
kingston
view,
sir
john,
a
as
a
as
as
someone
along
those
lines
that
someone
who
is
not
just
local.
Obviously,
a
prime
minister
who
we
have
have
history
with
within
this
city
is
important.
D
So
I
think
I
think
that
combination
of
goals,
meeting
the
local
needs
of
the
residents
and
also
addressing
some
of
the
larger
conversations
and
the
broader
geographic
scope
of
this
issue
is
really
important
and
something
that
we
can
we've
seen
develop
already
through
the
work
of
first
people's
group.
So
I'm
supporting
the
recommendation.
D
E
E
With
this
most
excellent
consultant
would
be
much
more
problematic
in
my
view,
than
getting
lost
in
what
is
a
very
legitimate
policy
question.
So
if
counselors
are
considering
that
as
a
way
to
either
defer
a
decision
tonight
or
maybe
not
go
forward
with
first
peoples,
I
would
caution
that
that
could
actually
be
counterproductive
exponentially,
so
jeopardizing
a
lot
of
good
work.
That's
been
done,
especially
because
we've
seemed
to
find
consensus
on
slow
and
important
moves
towards
reconciliation.
G
Through
you,
your
worship,
in
response
to
the
question,
I
don't
anticipate
that
the
contract
itself
gets
into
that
kind
of
specificity
of
language
around
the
directing
of
the
work.
But
I
can
assure
you
and
counsel
that
the
proposal
that's
been
submitted
by
first
people's
group
in
response
to
the
scope
of
work
that
came
out
of
our
july.
7Th
and
eighth
discussion
very
clearly
articulates
and
recognizes
that
need
to
engage
with
local
residents
as
key
participants
in
this
process
and,
and
that
has
been
recognized
from
the
get-go
and
is
understood
to
be
a
priority.
H
Thank
you
and
through
you,
mr
mayor,
I
I
well
the
working
group
is.
I
just
would
like
to
just
thank
staff
for
bringing
this
forward.
I'm
really
pleased
to
support
this.
The
working
group,
I
believe,
speaks
to
what
counselor
neil
was
just
his
concern
that
it
would
include
the
voices
of
our
local
community
because
there's
the
I
notice
in
the
report.
H
It
says
the
aldebaran
first
nation
and
the
more
being
quintes
would
be
included
from
our
surroundings,
but
also
that
there
would
be
three
local
indigenous
people
who
no
doubt
will
be
closely
connected
with
many
in
our
neighborhood
in
our
community,
as
well
as
three
other
members
from
our
community.
So
there
will
it
speaks.
G
Thank
you
and
through
your
worship.
Yes,
as
you've
identified
councillor
doherty,
there
will
be
full
representation
from
those
traditional
keepers
of
this
land,
the
mohawk
and
the
mississauga
of
alderville
representation
from
the
local
indigenous
community,
as
well
as
community
members.
As
is
cited
in
the
document
working
within
the
parameters
of
the
committee
by
law.
We
are
proposing
that
this
working
group
would
be
one
that
directly
reports
to
council,
as
opposed
to
going
up
through
some
other
standing
committee,
as
is
often
the
case
with
committees
like
this.
I
There's
been
a
lot
of
work
going
forward
and
we'd
already
spent
over
90,
000
plus
expenses
for
up
to
that
work.
Now
I
look
at
the
scope
of
work
going
forward
for
the
same
time
period
of
18
months
and
the
price
is
now
190,
000
plus
expenses,
and
it
troubles
me
that
we
would
be
spending
that
much
money
when
we've
come
so
far.
We've
had
the
bicentenary,
we've
had
local
expertise,
we've
got,
you
know
what
what's
going
on
locally
with
queens.
I
I
But
even
beyond
that,
I
think
an
investment
of
two
hundred
thousand
dollars
would
go
a
lot
further
to
hiring
someone
locally
in
in
the
city.
That
will
do
the
city's
work
and
be
that
liaison
with
the
indigenous
community,
but
we
can
invest
in
them.
Union
paid
job,
invest
in
them
to
do
the
work
and
keep
all
that
information,
local,
and
so
it's
with
that
in
mind
that
I
do
have
a
deferral
motion
that
I
like
to
get
on
the
table.
I
So
what
I
would
like
to
do
is
that
kingston
city
council
and
I
believe
I'll
get
it
posted
mr
thompson
has
it,
and
I
do
appreciate
miss
councillor
neil's
seconding
this.
So
at
least
we're
gonna
have
a
discussion.
I
know
he
likes
to
support
the
democratic
process,
so
the
motion
is
simply
that
the
city
kingston
defer
report,
number
20-227,
first,
people's
group,
sole
source
agreement
and
updates
related
to
actions
regarding
sir
johnny
mcdonald
and
his
history
and
legacy
to
the
first
meeting
of
the
administrative
policies
committee
in
2021.
I
In
order
to
allow
an
opportunity
to
assess
the
merits
of
the
sole
source
contract
in
comparison
to
supporting
and
training
and
or
hiring
an
indigenous
liaison
officer
who
will
leverage
community
contacts
and
retain
the
indigenous
knowledge
and
expertise
locally
for
future
generations?
And
that
is
my
my
emotion.
A
Okay,
thank
you.
So
it's
moved
by
cancer
chappelle
seconded
by
council
new
york.
I
think
you've
spoken
to
the
motion
to
defer
the
rationale.
So,
as
you
know,
the
parameters
that
I
set
as
chair
for
emotion,
defer
are
time
placed
direction,
so
I
will
entertain
any
comments
or
discussion
on
time
place
or
direction.
D
Possible,
thank
you,
okay,
so
yeah
direction.
I
mean
this
is
a.
This
is
asking
for
the
merits
of
something
which
to
me
indicates
a
request
to
staff
for
a
report
with
options,
and
that
seems
to
suggest
there
would
be
a
fair
bit
of
work
involved.
So
I
guess
the
question
is
to
staff
or
to
the
mover
regarding
essentially
asking
for
a
report,
but
but
suggesting
that
it's
just
simply
a
small
bit
of
information
on
on
the
merits
of
something
which
presupposes
that
there
is
merit.
J
Thank
you,
worship
and
thank
you,
mr
wiggington,
for
your
work
so
far.
I'm
I
guess
I'm
gonna
have
to
ask
the
mayor
for
a
ruling
on
this
amendment,
because
my
reading
of
this
amendment
is
that
it
sends
us
if
passed,
would
send
us
in
a
different
direction
than
that
of
the
recommendation
that
it's
amending.
J
A
A
A
A
J
Having
read
it
again,
the
recommendation
before
us
could
pass
as
amended
or
it
could
pass
when
it
comes
back
from
deferral
to
council,
regardless
of
the
outcome
of
the
analysis
of
comparing
the
training
or
an
indigenous
liaison
officer
versus
the
present
recommendation,
which
does
not
include
that
piece.
So
it's
actually
another
piece.
J
I
would
say
that,
for
the
purposes
of
this
amendment,
it's
important
to
understand
what
the
most
important
aspect
of
this
work
is,
and
that
is
to
have
knowledgeable
indigenous
voices,
essentially,
as
the
prime
source
of
information
on
this
work,
an
indigenous
liaison
officer
would
would
do
this,
so
would
having
knowledgeable
indigenous
members
of
the
working
group
if
their,
if
their
recommendations
from
the
working
group
are
also
the
main
thrust
of
the
work
to
be
done.
So
I
would
say
that
the
two
are
complementary.
J
The
question
is:
do
as
written
does
the
composition
of
the
working
group?
Are
we
happy?
This
is
the
best
way
to
find
that
strong
indigenous
voice
that
we
need
to
direct
this
work.
It's
a
sole
source
contract
with
with
folks
that
have
spoken
to
council
before
we
know
the
work
that
they've
started
and
some
of
the
things
that
they
recommended
that
we
change
as
we've
already
seen
and
at
the
last
time
they
came.
J
L
A
See
your
point
of
order
before
I
get
to
your
point
of
view,
although
I've
been
asked
to
provide
an
interpretation
of
what
this
motion
defer
means,
I
think
it's
important
also
that
we
get
that
from
staff
as
well
to
make
sure
that
we
are
all
on
the
same
page
about
exactly
what's
in
front
of
us.
So
I
just
I
want
to
give
staff
the
opportunity
to
digest
this
and
then
probably
to
provide
that
answer.
A
A
Okay,
we're
gonna
reconvene
folks,
so
so
counselor
hutchinson,
I've
heard
from
you
and
from
another
counselor
as
well
with
with
a
question
about
whether
this
motion
to
defer
is
contrary
to
previous
council
direction.
So
what
I'm
going
to
attempt
to
do
is
explain
my
interpretation
of
what
this
motion
defer
is
is
saying
my
ruling
is
it's.
It's
not
contrary
I'll.
Try
to
explain
why,
then
I
am
also
going
to
ask
staff
for
their
input
on
time,
place
and
and
direction.
The
motion
differ.
A
A
This
motion
defer
would
essentially
delay
the
awarding
of
a
sole
source
contract
to
first
people's
group
in
order
to
allow
for
cons,
development
or
consideration
of
another
option
to
do
that,
work
which
is
to
hire
somebody
in-house
to
do
that
work.
So
it's
not
that
we
are
hiring
someone
in
house
instead
of
engaging
that
work.
It's
basically
who's
going
to
do
the
work.
That's
my
interpretation
of
the
motion
defer
sponsor
chappelle.
A
M
M
So
I
would
think
that
realistically
is
a
five
to
six
month
process
and
the
question
would
be
well
that
that
wouldn't
start
until
that,
some
analysis
here
is
done
to
compare
the
differences
and
brought
to
a
min
policies
committee
in
early
2021
and
then,
if
the
direction
is
to
go
in
that
direction,
that
we
would
need
to
recruit
from
from
there.
So
definitely
multiple
months
of
option
and
the
possible
impacts
to
to
budget
versus
having
approved
capital
budget
right
now.
M
To
do
this
work
and
all
the
work
that
will
be
necessary
to
bringing
an
operational
staff
person
in-house
to
be
paid,
as
well
as
the
budget
needed
to
to
do
all
the
work
and
the
outreach
from
there.
So
that's
how
I
interpret
it.
I
see
those
are
the
impacts
and
happy
to
continue
to
answer
your
questions
on
on
the
deferral
on
the
floor.
A
A
E
A
Okay,
all
right
so
council
kylie,
your
your
challenge
to
the
chair
is
accepted
by
by
me
that
that
that
is,
that
is
fair.
I
had.
I
didn't,
have
the
the
motion
in
front
of
me
by
giving
that
reading
of
it.
That
is
true
that
does
make
it
then
a
motion
of
reconsideration
just
give
me
one
second,
just
to
defer
them
to
consult
with
the
clerk
on
the
next
steps.
A
A
I
For
clarity
three
year
worship,
I
guess
the
only
clause
that
I
would
be
looking
to
reconsider
is
the
automatic
renewal
of
a
sole
source
contract
moving
forward
to
have
an
opportunity
to
look
at
other
options,
and
I'm
not
saying
we
wouldn't
utilize
them.
But
I
I
guess
in
essence,
in
order
to
achieve
the
the
more
fuller
respect
for
tax
dollars,
to
look
at
all
the
opportunities
to
do
this
job
well
with
local
talent.
A
I
I
A
A
There
a
second
seconded
by
cancer
building,
okay,
so
on
the
motion
to
wave
the
disturbance
clear,
this
is
going
to
be
a
motion
to
wave
the
rules
wave
our
procedure
rules
to
allow
councillorship
pell
to
put
forward
a
motion
of
reconsideration.
It
requires
two
thirds
to
pass
okay.
We
will
call
we'll
call
the
vote
all
those
in.
I
J
A
Vote
on
the
reconsiderations
council,
so
just
so
we're
clear!
Yes,
first,
you
need
a
motion
to
waive
the
procedure
rules
in
order
to
allow
for
a
motion
of
reconsideration.
Then
the
motion
of
reconsideration
has
to
pass
and
then
the
motion
to
defer
would
then
be
okay.
So
on
the
motion
to
wave
our
our
procedural
rules
to
allow
for
a
motion
of
reconsideration,
all
those
in
favor
opposed.
A
I
K
This
is
about
trying
to
do
something
about
writing
long-term
grievances
and
wrongs
to
a
certain
group,
and
so
that's
why
we're
doing
this?
That
wasn't
the
case.
We
wouldn't
be
doing
any
of
this.
So
there's
that
and
then
I
just
a
note
on
the
sole
source,
sole
sourcing
of
a
supply
or
a
service.
This
is
not
unusual.
K
Can
you
do
the
job
and
we
ask
questions
particularly
about
first
people's
and
their
experience,
and
they
indicated
they
had
quite
strong
well
in
direct
involvement
in
the
truth,
reconciliation
process
of
the
national.
I
think
it
was
on
the
national
level,
so
I
don't
see
any
reason
why
we
wouldn't
continue
and
as
councilor
kylie's
point
was
that
we
did
agree.
I
remember
that
very
clearly-
and
I
was
the
other
counselor
raised
it-
that
we
would
go
ahead
with
this
company.
K
So
it
seems
to
me
that
that
there's
no
reason
not
to
support
this
work
is
already
started.
That's
the
other
thing
that
could
point
it
could
be
made.
So
we're
just
saying.
Unless
we
take
this
seriously,
we're
going
to
continue
on-
and
I
think
council
in
general,
no
matter
how
they
felt
about
the
this
little
rush
of
motions
just
passed,
does
take
it
very
seriously
and
I
think
that's
the
message
we
want
to
send.
Thank.
J
We
wouldn't
even
be
have
gotten
this
far
and,
of
course,
so
the
question
on
the
table
tonight
isn't:
are
we
going
to
continue
with
this
process?
I
think
it's
pretty
clear.
We
have
the
consensus
to
do
that
amongst
council
here
and
and
we're
a
group
that
doesn't
really
involve
any
indigenous
voices
so
and
that's
important,
because
we
represent
the
descendants
of
the
early
colonial
powers
that
set
this
whole
century's
old
course
of
events
in
in
motion-
and
you
know
the
question
is:
is
not.
Are
we
gonna
do
this?
J
The
question
is
whoever
we
get
to
do
this.
Are
they
going
to
have
the
tools,
the
expertise
and
the
drive
to
do
it
properly,
because
I
think
it
needs
to
be
said
openly
if,
if
this
process
ends
up
being
a
lot
of
consultation
with
no
real
effort
towards
truth
and
reconciliation
at
the
end
of
it,
it's
going
to
generate
more
cynicism
around
this
issue
than
ever
before,
and
it's
going
to
directly
implicate
all
of
us
in
that
cynicism.
J
So
it
is
very
important
that
whoever's
doing
this
work
understands
the
complexities,
the
challenges
and
how
to
deliver
at
the
end
of
it.
Something
that
brings
us
that
more
people
can
say
the
kingston
city
council
is
serious
about
truth
and
reconciliation,
because
looking
at
at
the
bunch
of
us,
the
13
of
us
it.
You
know
if
you're,
indigenous
and
you're
looking
at
this
group,
you're
not
going
to
assume
that
we
are
empathetic,
because
we
haven't
really
proved
it
yet.
J
J
So
we
will
now
have
to
trust
if
we
pass
this
tonight
that
the
proponents
in
charge
of
this
work
are
able
to
deliver
that
important
indigenous
friendly
voice
that
we
need
to
hear
to
guide
us,
because
none
of
us
here
know
how
to
do
this
and
pull
it
off
in
a
way
that
will
be
accepted
by
first
nations
and
it's
very
high
stakes.
What
we're
doing
here-
and
I
just
wanted
to
make
that
point-
I
do
support
the
process,
but
I
do
not
support
going
halfway.
J
O
Thank
you,
your
worship,
a
question
through
you
to
staff,
and
that's
just
so.
I
can
understand
the
sole
source
agreement
better
and
what
I
want
to
question
is
just
the
price,
the
cost
of
182
500
for
this
agreement,
so
it
wasn't
an
open
bid,
because
this
is
recommending
so
source.
Is
that
what
staff
expected
in
the
budget?
It
says
in
our
report
that
it's
going
to
be
funded
from
within.
Where
do
I
have
it?
O
G
Thank
you
and
through
your
worship,
a
couple
of
responses
to
your
question.
Counselor
osanic,
the
monies
that
are
needed
to
support
this
work
were
budgeted
for,
and
you
know,
does
account
for
what
was
required
and
you
know
we
pursued
the
sole
source
initially
in
in
2018,
as
council
had
previously
approved,
based
on
recognition
of
what
had
emerged
from
engage
for
change
for
the
need
to
have
that
kind
of
expertise
that
first
people's
group
brings
as
third-party
objective
supporters
of
this
work.
G
G
The
completion
of
engage
for
change
at
the
beginning
of
q,
1
2022,
the
naming
of
the
third
crossing
the
consultations
around
sir
johnny
mcdonald
and
the
the
continued
work
around
what's
emerging
as
intergovernmental
relations.
So
there's
a
complex
series
of
interrelated
initiatives
here
that
are
captured
within
the
current
scope.
O
O
G
Through
you,
your
worship
at
this
juncture
that
position
is
being
conceived
of
as
a
contract
position,
particularly
related
to
the
work
of
the
cultural
services
department
and
the
emerging
cultural
heritage
strategy
that
we've
discussed
their
role
would
be
to
work
alongside
as
part
of
city
staff
in
the
development
of
content.
That's
specific
in
indigenous
focus,
so
exhibitions,
programming,
special
events
and
the
like,
so
its
scope,
is
very
focused
and
is
expected
to
be
finite.
At
this
point,
what's
not
clear
at
this
juncture?
G
Is
the
outcomes
of
you
know
the
intergovernmental
relations
piece
that
what
has
been
brought
forward
tonight
is
something
for
consideration.
This
idea
of
indigenous
liaison
position
could
potentially
be
an
outcome
that
we
see
as
a
long-term
support
for
the
legacy
of
this
work.
That's
happening
right
now,
so
they're.
K
Thank
you,
mr
mayor.
I
just
wanted
staff
for
this
report
and
the
work
they're
doing
it
is
moving.
I
think,
when
you
read
the
report,
you
can
see
we're
moving
along
it's
and
as
it
needs
to
is,
I
think,
there's
a
few
members
of
council.
That
would
say
that,
and
so
I
just
wanted
to
say
it's
good
to
see
it's
happening.
I
got
a
briefing
from
staff.
K
A
A
Q
Okay,
I
will
speak
loud
and
hopefully
that
will
get
through
my
microphone.
So
thank
you
for
the
question
and
through
your
worship,
the
with
respect
to
the
question
of
the
rule,
advisory
and
some
water
experts.
We
have
the
technical
advisory
committees
as
well
and
sitting
on
the
mitigation
and
adaptation
teams
are
crca,
as
well
as
members
of
the
rural
advisory
committee
who
bring
the
technical
expertise
to
those
two
teams.
A
F
N
M
Sorry
sorry
miss
mayor,
so
I've
heard
from
miss
salter
keane.
Unfortunately,
her
power
went
out
so
her
computer
is
rebooting,
so
I
may
ask
the
cio
to
jump
in
here.
As
per
previous
response,
there
are
different
committees
with
respect
to
the
mitigation
and
adaptation,
but
this
is
a
community
driven
organization.
I
unfortunately
don't
have
that
information
right
now,
but
ceo
hurdle
may
be
able
to
add.
R
F
On
on
this,
I
find
a
little
troubling
and
I
did
send-
and
I
hope
that
mr
hogan
boss
got
it.
I
did
send
a
couple
of
questions
out,
including
this
question.
Is
there
an
opportunity,
I
believe
ceo
hertel
said,
there's
an
opportunity
to
expand,
perhaps
without
having
to
amend
this
recommendation
for
kingston
district
labor
council?
Would
there
also
be
an
opportunity
to
reach
out
to
dupont,
or
perhaps
one
of
our
innovative
small,
smaller,
possibly
canadian
industries
here
in
town,
for
better
representation.
M
F
E
Thank
you,
mayor,
patterson,
quickly,
a
question
of
clarification
for
staff
at
the
very
top
of
the
report.
It
says
that
there's
the
goal
of
reducing
greenhouse
gases
by
15
across
the
city
and
then
in
the
body
of
the
report.
It
talks
about
that
goal
being
across
the
community,
and
I
know
a
few
times-
there's
been
confusion
about
that.
So
I
just
want
to
clarify
this
group
will
be
looking
for
15
reduction
for
all
of
kingston
or
just
within
the
corporation.
A
J
I
just
want
to
draw
the
council's
attention
to
some
past
committees.
Some
now
defunct
others
in
modified
form
that
ran
into
trouble
when
they,
when
their
their
numbers,
were
such
that
they
either
weren't
making
quorum
or
when
they
when
they
had
meetings.
There
were
so
many
voices
at
the
table
that
it
was
difficult
to
move
ahead
with
the
agendas.
J
One
example
of
this
was
the
kingston
environmental
advisory
forum,
which
has
similar
look
to
this
with
many
reps
representatives
from
many
different
groups.
This.
This
is
a
long
standing
advisory
group
to
get
to
reports
to
eitp,
but
it
advises
council
and
was
actually
changed
not
that
long
ago.
Because
of
this
problem-
and
I
and
I
just
I'm-
worried
that
this
com,
the
number
of
of
mandated
members
in
this
group,
might
might
send
us
down
that
road
again.
So
my
question
to
staff
is
have
first
of
all.
Is
it?
J
Is
it
true
that,
what's
in
the
package
with
the
list
of
18
groups,
is
that
going
to
is
that
meant
to
be
the
composition
of
the
working
group,
because
I
wasn't
clear
when
the
calcium
was
speaking
because
I
didn't
see
invested
in
that
list,
so
I
was
confused,
whether
you're,
suggesting
that
we
add
them
and
there
and
if
not,
where
is
the
institutional
sector
on
this
list?
I
suppose
is
the
question
and
or
maybe
there's
been
a
new
list
and
I
haven't
seen
it
because
I'm
going
by
what
was
in
the
package.
Q
Okay,
well,
I
apologize
for
the
delay
my
computer
system
needed
to
reboot.
So
with
respect
to
the
community
advisory
group.
It
is
an
advisory
group,
it's
not
a
working
committee
of
council.
They
will
work
with
the
consultants
and
with
city
staff
similar.
What
to
what
we
did
with
the
kingston
penitentiary
visioning.
We
had
a
working
group
that
was
a
sounding
board
for
staff
and
for
the
consultants
prior
to
going
to
the
public.
Q
So
when
we
would
have
a
our
draft
strategy
or
when
we
moved
to
our
impact
statements,
we
would
use
them
as
a
sounding
board.
So
it's
not
a
working
committee,
but
an
advisory
group
that
would
report
to
to
the
staff
as
well
as
to
the
consultants
with
I
missed
a
few
of
the
questions,
but
with
respect
to
invista
institutional,
the
industrial.
J
Okay,
so
I
would
just
submit
to
council
before
we
get
into
individual
counselors,
suggesting
adding
more
members.
Is
that
that
the
way
staff
just
responded
is
that
this
is
a
sort
of
meant
to
be
a
sounding
board
for
work
by
the
consultant
and
by
staff
and
and
not
the
representation
doesn't
need
to
be
complete.
It
just
needs
to
be
large
enough
so
that
it
can
hear
enough
of
the
different
voices
of
the
different
groups,
as
so
that
the
work
doesn't,
I
guess,
head
off
in
the
wrong
direction,
and
things
like
that.
J
That's
an
important
point,
because
this,
because
if
this
was
meant
to
be
something
like
keefe,
where
they
meet
and
they
follow
an
agenda
and
they
form
subcommittees
and
the
members
are
the
ones
doing
the
work,
then
it
would
probably
fail
for
because
of
its
large
size
and
lack
of
compartmentalization.
I
guess
so.
I
guess
I'll
just
leave
it
there,
I'm
I'm
skeptical.
What
is
this?
J
What
this
group
can
can
bring
in
a
concrete
fashion
to
to
the
work
by
the
consultant
at
the
end
of
the
day
again,
like
the
last
item,
we
need,
we
need
results
and
we,
if
we
want
to
get
that
15,
we
need
to
start
moving
and
it's
not
so
much
consultation
and
analysis.
That
needs
to
be
done
as
we,
as
was
mentioned
by
some
of
you
when
we
spoke
about
this
at
strategic
planning.
J
J
So
again,
I'm
looking
forward
the
for
the
concrete
steps
to
come
back
from
this
process
and
I
hope
it
doesn't
get
slowed
down
by
the
by
the
bulk
of
the
of
the
of
the
members
of
the
advisory
group.
As
as
we
see,
18
18
members
isn't
really
a
committee,
it's
more
like
a
convention
and
you're
not
going
to
be
able
to
assemble
18
members
on
a
regular
basis.
J
A
A
A
A
clause,
2,
uncollectible,
tax,
write-offs
pursuant
to
the
municipal
act,
2001
clause,
3
sewage
systems
under
part,
a
of
the
obc
all
those
in
favor
opposed
and
that's
carried
okay
information
reports.
If
you
have
a
question,
just
raise
your
hand
as
I
read
through
them
number
one
tender
and
contract
awards,
subject
to
the
established
criteria
for
delegation
of
authority
for
the
month
of
august,
2020
draft
integrated
economic
development,
strategic
plan
update.
N
N
A
No,
so
so
this
isn't.
This
is
an
information
report
on
an
update
of
the
draft
plan
and
if,
if
I
remember
correctly,
we
were
discussing
this
at
the
kingston
active
board
meeting
earlier
this
week
that
this
will
come
in
a
final
version
to
to
council
with
a
presentation
towards
the
end
of,
I
believe
in
december.
A
N
A
Okay,
we
have
no
information
reports
from
members
of
council
miscellaneous
business.
The
we
true
have
number
one.
The
following
counselors
have
indicated
that
they
are
willing
to
serve
as
deputy
mayor
for
two
month:
increments,
counselor,
holland,
councillor
hill,
so
the
clerk
is
going
to
do
a
a
draw
of
names.
A
B
B
B
Sorry,
counselor
osterhoff
will
be
december
20th
and
january
2021,
and
then
we
had
councillor
holland,
who
was
for
february
and
march
2021.
Then
it
was
councillor
hill
for
april
and
may
2021
and
councilor
meal
for
june
and
july
of
2021,
and
that
will
be
confirmed
at
our
meeting
on
november
3rd.
A
reminder
to
members
of
council.
You
do
have
an
opportunity
to
make
a
trade
in
the
meantime.
If
so,
please
communicate
that
to
us.
A
Whereas
many
other
municipalities
on
ontario,
like
berry
and
belleville,
have
a
finance
committee
to
conduct
a
more
direct,
democratic
and
detailed
overview
of
public
funds,
whereas
king's
does
not
have
such
a
finance
committee
for
the
same
purposes,
therefore
be
it
resolved
the
council
direct
staff
to
report
back
by
the
end
of
q1
2021,
with
options
for
increasing
council's
financial
oversight
with
respect
to
matters
of
fiscal
policy,
the
external
audit
process,
financial
reporting,
financial
processes
and
internal
recruit
controls,
councilor
chappelle.
You
have
the
floor.
I
I
But
I
find
it
very
troublesome
that
we
get
comments
throughout
the
course
of
the
our
presentations
that,
oh
you
know,
we
anticipate
spending
189
000,
while
it
was
in
the
budget.
Well,
you
know
what
I
didn't
see
that
line
in
the
budget,
because
all
we
see
is
this:
this
conglomerate
of
a
massive
pool
for
segregated
for
a
segregation
of
specific
committees
and
what
happens
is
we
don't
have
another
granular
approach?
I
So
if
we
had
some
sort
of
committee
I
would
say
take
one
or
two,
or
even
as
many
as
four
through
the
course
of
council's
term.
That
would
have
a
greater
in-depth
perspective.
I
could
report
back
to
council
say:
listen,
you
know.
The
operations
team
over
with
public
works
are
doing
an
incredible
job.
They've
done
they've
extended.
You
know
extra
sidewalk
clearance
this
year
and
this
is
how
they
managed
to
do
it
and
we
have
as
counselors
greater
understanding
of
how
the
money
is
spent.
I
P
Mclaren,
so
I
have
a
few
questions
for
the
mover
on
the
therefore
be
resolved
law.
I
ask:
what
do
you
envision
being
different
from
what
we
have
now
with
regards
to
our
financial
oversight
with
respect
to
matters
of
fiscal
policy,
we
set
policy
and
staff
carries
it
out.
What
may
I
ask
on
that
point?
Do
you
expect
to
see
her
get
differently.
I
Oh
great,
through
your
worship,
couch
mclaren,
that's
an
excellent
example.
I
think
really
how
I
would
break
that
down
and
parse
it
out,
for
you
would
be
simply
this
we
do
have
policy.
One
of
them
is:
is
a
delegated
authority
of
fifty
thousand
dollars,
which
recently
came
back
to
our
our
public.
Employ
our
policy
administration
committee
a
few
weeks
ago,
asking
for
us
to
increase
that
to
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
percent,
removes
us
even
further
away
from
the
decision
making.
I
So
this
is
an
opportunity
to
actually
to
review
fiscal
policy
to
ensure
that
we're
more
in
lock
step
with
what's
happening
in
our
community.
So
we
have
the
covet
issue
going
on
right
now
and
we
need
to
make
sure
that
we
can
ensure
that
we
are
have
our
parks
taken
care
of
and
there's
other
priorities.
I
But
what
this
would
allow
us
to
do
is
if
we're
buying
cars
we
can
go
out
and
we
can
staff
say:
listen
posted
on
pedingo.
Is
this
proposal
and
we're
buying
four
trucks
this
year
and
send
an
email
to
every
one
of
those
member
communities
who
have
people
who
play
hockey
locally?
Who
support
our
kids
locally
and
say:
please
bid
on
this
through
badingo.
If
you
need
help,
our
staff
will
assist
you
and
the
fact
the
matter
is.
I
I
But
we've
had
preliminary
discussions
with
with
miss
kennedy
and
and
she's
supportive
of
the
idea.
The
whole
aspect
of
you
know
moving
towards
participatory
budgeting.
You
know
councilor
mclaren.
This
would
be
a
great
opportunity
for
you
to
bring
forward
ideas
of
non-tax
revenue
streams
for
the
city.
I
think
this
is
a
win
for
those
people
who
are
interested
in
fiscal.
P
Policy:
okay,
I'm
asking
you
actually
to
try
and
sell
me
on
this,
but
some
of
this
isn't
there
there's
nothing
on
participatory
budgeting
or
how
to
bring
forth
ideas
on
non-tax
revenue.
So
I'm
I'm
sorry
that
didn't
help,
but
you
suggested
also
that
we
should
review
our
purchasing
policy.
I
believe
that's
what
we
have
mint
policies
for
committee,
so
I'm
not
sure
why
we
would
need
another
one.
P
You
also
mentioned
that
you're
looking
to
get
more
granular
at
this,
I'm
not
an
accountant
and
I'm
not
sure
I
want
to
do
accounting
at
that
level.
Part
of
what
we're
supposed
to
do
is,
I
see
it
is
governance
and
oversight
on
a
large
level.
That's
why
we
have
professional
outside
accountants
who
look
at
the
scope.
The
second
point
in
your
motion,
you're
saying
you
want
councils
oversight
with
respect
to
external
audit
processes.
What
do
you
imagine
that
counselors?
I
I
We
get
a
proposal
that
the
audit
committee
puts
forward
this
year
was
the
first
time
ever
at
policy
admin
that
that
members
of
the
committee
could
recall,
but
we
actually
asked
the
poll
the
account
of
the
accountant
firm
to
bring
in
another
line
of
sight,
which
would
be
to
list
all
of
the
consultants
and
all
the
fees
per
department
for
consultants
in
that
audit
report
coming
to
council
before
that,
it's
just
a
clair.
So
these
are
opportunities
that
you
could
do
at
a
a
finance
department,
a
finance
committee.
I
These
are
options
because,
as
far
as
the
oversight
is
concerned,
we
just
approve
the
budget.
The
audit
committee
boom
goes,
the
council
gets
passed
and
look
at
how
many
times
we
have
items
that
come
before
council
of
the
delegated
authority,
and
we
don't
get
to
speak
on
it.
It
just
zips
past
through
on
on
the
agenda.
P
Okay-
and
I
also
ask
what
do
you
feel
would
be
different
this
time
with
regards
to
financial
reporting
and
financial
processes
and
internal
controls?
If
I
recall
at
the
beginning
of
this
council
term,
we
asked
for
that
kind
of
stuff
on
the
special
case
basis
for
in
order
to
find
money
for
affordable
housing
and
I
believe
at
the
end
of
it
all
we
found
like
18
million
or
something
I
do
recall.
We
had
some
conversations
about
which
projects
we
would
like
to
defer
and
move
back
or
cancel
all
together.
J
Thank
you,
the
debate
format,
I
don't
believe,
allows
for
a
back
and
forth
between
members
like
this,
each
of
us,
but
you
know
if,
if
so,
we
could
ask
each
other
questions
at
any
time,
and
you
know
an
endless
debate
this.
This
is
something
the
two
counselors
should
be
speaking
to
each
other
offline
if
they
want
to
go
further
in
the
debate.
A
A
The
only
reason
why
I'm
allowing
counselor
chappelle
to
answer
these
questions
is
because
council
mclaren
is
asking
them,
but
he
will
that's
up
to
him
and
then,
if,
if
people
want
to
ask
staff
questions,
they
can
ask
to
have
questions.
I
do
allow
questions
of
the
mover
as
well.
I
I
understand,
but
I
I
do
believe
it's
important
sponsor
mclaren.
You
have
the
floor.
You
still
have
two
minutes
and
30
seconds,
so
this
is
just
my
last.
J
Okay,
the
mayor
is
allowing
multiple
questions.
If
it
was
one
question
or
a
set
of
questions
to
the
mover,
I
believe
it
would
be
within
procedural
rules
of
order.
Multiple
questions
for
a
total
of
greater
than
five
minutes
is
contrary
to
the
rules
of
order,
and
I
believe
that
my
fellow
counselors
don't
want
to
see
this
kind
of
thing
at
a
council
meeting
where
you
have
two
members
debating
each
other
with
multiple
back
and
forth
responses.
J
I
agree
what
the
mayor
said
is
your
the
mover
is
allowed
to
answer
questions,
but
I
would
submit
that
is
a
one
time
only
per
member
one.
Each
member
can
ask
the
mover
a
set
of
one
or
a
set
of
questions,
and
he
has
one
chance
to
respond
when
you
start
having
multiple
responses.
That
turns
into
a
debate-
and
that
is
my
challenge
to
the
chair
and
I'll-
see
what
my
colleagues
think.
A
Thank
you
so,
with
a
challenge
to
the
chair,
I
will
give
a
response
and
and
then
we
will
call
the
vote,
my
response
to
that
is
counselor
stroud.
If
you
want
to
bring
forward
an
amendment
to
our
procedural
bylaw
that
restricts
counselors.
To
only
ask
one
question
of
mover
of
the
motion,
I
am
perfectly
fine
with
that.
A
Then
we
can
do
the
same
for
the
mover
of
the
motion.
I
do
exactly
the
same
process,
which
is
to
stop
the
clock
when
the
question
is
being
answered,
and
then
I
resume
the
clock
when
the
person
with
the
floor
begins
to
speak.
So
that's
my
explanation
at
this
point.
Then
we
will
move
to
a
vote
for
challenge
of
the
chair.
So
if
it
is
a
yes
vote,
then
you
are
aligning
with
counselor
strap.
A
A
A
P
Thank
you
and
it
will
be
really
quick
and
I'm
not
trying
to
debate
him.
I'm
asking
for
more
information
on
what
he
envisions
here
and
the
hopes
of
finding
a
reason
to
support
him,
considering
what
we've
done
in
the
past
earlier
this
term,
where
we
asked
for
the
last
three
things
that
are
on
your
resolve,
clause
and
council
didn't
seem
to
want
to
actually
do
anything
but
send
them
back
to
staff.
P
I
P
It's
my
computer
overheating,
let's
close
through
the
mic,
but
last
three
requests
under
the
resolve
costs,
financial
reporting,
financial
processes
and
internal
controls.
We
had
asked
about
that
at
the
beginning
of
our
term
in
context
of
finding
18
million
dollars
for
affordable
housing.
The
result
of
that
was
that
we
essentially
sent
back
the
staff
to
do
what
we
asked.
This
seems
to
be
the
way
governance
works.
We
tell
them
what
we
want
and
they
do
it
the
way
they
do
it.
We
don't
usually
tell
them
how
to
do
it.
I
I
We
heard
today
in
the
in
the
in
the
report
on
the
environment
that
the
word
consultant
slipped
out,
but
there
is
nothing
mentioned
on
how
much
we're
paying
that
consultant.
So
we
have
consultants
for
everything.
So
maybe
that
is
just
one
area
of
interest
that
this
committee
would
be
able
to
focus
on
is
to
review
the
number
of
consultants
that
we
have.
We
have
a
person
that
we
send
around
the
city
of
kingston,
looking
at
our
sidewalks
for
50
60
000
a
year
to
find
out
which
ones
are
correct.
I
We
have
consultants
for
doing
almost
everything
in
the
city
and
either
we
start
investing
in
our
staff.
We
can
train
up
that's
an
opportunity
to
make
our
our
city
more
engaged
and
have
better
qual,
better
educated
staff.
So
we
don't
have
to
hire
consultants
all
the
time,
because
that
is
a
operating
expense
instead
of
an
opera
as
soon
as
a
capital
expense,
rather
than
an
operating
expense,
and
so
money
gets
pushed
around
in
so
many
different
ways
that
we
can't
keep
track.
I
So
what
this
committee
will
do
will
say:
look
we
have
an
issue
with
understanding
how
we're
supporting
our
homeless-
and
we
have
all
these
these
committees.
Where
is
the
money
going?
How
are
we
supporting
them?
How
many
homes
are
we
getting
what
we
so
it
allows
us
to
have
a
more
granular
focus
on
a
specific
problem
or
specific
issue?
Maybe
it's
transit.
How
are
the
routes
being
divvied
up
and
how
come
you
know
these
buses?
I
keep
getting
emails,
they're
empty
or
I
don't
have
bus
service,
or
where
can
I
get
bus
service?
I
So
this
committee,
as
a
finance
committee,
can
look
at
a
more
credible
level
on.
Maybe
these
routes
should
be
improved
in
this
manner
with
that
work
staff,
maybe
this
so
being
more
of
an
activist,
functional
council
that
takes
on
projects
of
financial
nature,
that's
where
it's
different,
rather
than
always
having
staff
report.
I
Another
thing,
too,
is
to
ensure
that
staff
provide
us
with
options
rather
than
just
saying
you
have
to
choose
a
or
b
is
going
to
happen.
What
about,
however,
having
that
here
are
options
a
b
c
and
d?
This
is
your
best
option,
and
these
are
the
options
that
that's.
This
is
an
opportunity
for
that
as
well.
A
P
F
F
Thank
you.
That's
for
you
sure,
I'm
a
little
conflicted
on
this
motion
and
I
shared
some
of
my
concerns
with
councillor
chappelle
earlier.
When
I
read
this,
I
would
hate
for
this
to
go
back
to
the
1990s
when
I
was
first
on
my
first
two
terms
where
counselors
tried
to
do
line
by
line
budget
analysis,
which
can
be
very,
very
problematic
and
make
for
very,
very
long
meetings,
which
I
know
aren't
necessarily
a
concern
for
some
of
us.
L
Thank
you,
your
worship,
I
I
heard
what
counselor
chappelle
had
to
say
there,
and
they
did
mention
that
he
had
sat
on
an
audit
committee.
I
I
think
that's
what
he
said
and
I
suspected
there
been
any
issues
that
you
know
came
out
of
that
audit
committee.
We
would
have
heard
about
them
at
council.
We
didn't
so
would
suggest
that
the
audit
committee,
or
whatever
group
that
was,
was
confident
in
the
work
that
staff
was
being
done.
L
You
know
I
paid
well
for
that,
so
I
don't
have
any
complaints
about
it,
but
you're
going
to
be
adding.
You
know
a
significant
amount
of
work
back
into
this.
I
mean
counselor
chappelle
himself
said
on
planning
committee
and
had
to
step
aside
because
of
time
constraints,
and
we
haven't
been
able
to
fill
that
that
spot
on
on
on
planning.
A
L
Okay,
thank
you.
So
I
mean,
I
think,
that's
a
big
issue.
You
know
looking
at
at
the
level
of
workload
for
staff,
at
the
expectations
that
are
gonna
fall
to
to
counselors.
I
think
the
other
thing
too,
is
that
you
know
again
it's
that
undercurrent
of
messaging
right.
You
know,
as
council
mclaren
said,
we
have
lots
of
safeguards
in
place.
We've
got
lots
of
oversight
provisions
in
place.
We
get
regular
reports.
L
We
spend
a
great
deal
of
time
going
through
the
budget
carefully.
We
have
a
ceo
and
a
director
of
finance
that
we
charge
with
ensuring
that
that
the
budget
is
is
being
well
dealt
with
and
it's
accurate
and
that
it's
above
board
and
where
we
don't
have
confidence
in
that
we
can.
We
can
search
that
out.
So
I
I
just
don't
see
the
value
in
that.
To
be
honest
with
you,
the
only.
K
L
That
I
would
see
as
as
being
of
some
benefit
in
this
regard,
is
that
it
would
safeguard
staff
and
that's
I
think,
of
some
value
and,
quite
frankly,
would
safeguard
staff
from
some
of
the
insinuations
that
that
come
on
occasion
from
this
council.
So
if
that's
the
intent
at
the
end
of
the
day,
when
the
report
comes
back,
your
staff
feel
more
comfortable.
Because
of
that
then
then
it
would
be
something
that
I
would
support.
So
I
would
support
the
report.
L
H
E
Thank
you,
mayor
patterson
through
you.
I
think
I'll
start
by
addressing
the
concerns
that
counselor,
dougherty
and
counselor
hill
have
expressed-
and
I
can
see
based
on
previous
count,
comments
from
council
from
time
to
time,
which
were
frankly
unfortunate,
why
that
might
be
thought
of,
but
I
can
assure
them
that
both
myself
and
the
mover
counselor
chappelle,
have
met
on
numerous
occasions
with
miss
kennedy
and
respect
the
work
of
her
and
her
team.
E
Miss
folds
is
here
tonight
and
there's
nothing
to
suggest
in
this
that
there's
nefarious
action
or
things
being
swept
under
the
rug
in
a
negative
way.
Honestly,
that
is
not
the
intent
and
again
ms
kennedy
worked
with
us
to
come
up
with
this
motion,
so
it's
been
in
collaboration
with
staff
from
the
beginning.
E
The
other
thing
I
would
like
to
point
out
is
in
that
collaboration
with
staff.
We've
moved
away
from
actually
asking
for
a
committee-
and
I
know
councillor
chappelle
addressed
this
briefly,
but
I
think
it's
worth
mentioning
well,
the.
Whereas
clauses
have
mentioned
of
committee,
it
is
just
a
study
so
for
the
counselors
who
have
identified
that.
Thank
you.
We're
not
asking
for
a
committee
at
this
point.
It's
just
for
increased
oversight,
though.
I
would
also
mention
that
to
me
it's
quite
odd
that
a
400
million
dollar
corporation
doesn't
have
a
finance
committee.
G
E
E
So
we
have
to
guard
against
it,
and
I
hope
that
the
report
from
staff
if
passed
tonight
will
steer
us
away
from
that.
But
I
do
want
to
give
an
example
of
where,
through
the
administrative
policy
committee,
we
actually
do
that
for
readercrest
home.
We
dissolve
from
the
admin
policy
committee
into
the
readercrest
home
board
of
management
and
we
actually
go
essentially
line
by
line
where
the
administrator
at
the
home
says
we're
this
month
below
our
budgeting
on
staffing,
but
we're
over
on
other
costs.
E
Therefore,
we'll
balance
out
and
we're
expecting
a
new
provincial
grant
next
month,
which
will
help
us,
you
know,
bring
new
standards
in
line
for
covet,
et
cetera,
et
cetera.
So
there
is
actually
a
role,
in
my
opinion,
at
least
for
counselors,
to
be
involved
with
that
to
do
so
in
a
way
that
is
respectful
in
a
way
that
isn't
too
operational.
But
I
don't
think
we
should
shy
away
from
the
people's
representatives
being
part
of
deciding
whether
and
where
the
people's
money
goes.
E
And
the
last
comment
I
would
make
is,
I
would
hope-
and
I've
expressed
this
to
miss
kennedy
one-on-one
and
with
counselor,
chappelle
and
again
numerous
occasions
over
the
last
two
years
of
being
elected,
that
if
we
were
to
have
a
committee
and
that's
getting
the
hypotheticals
that
I
recognize.
But
if
we
were
that
we
could
have
public
members
on
it.
So
it
wouldn't
just
be
counselors,
and
that
would
again
be
in
the
spirit
of
having
increased
transparency
and
public
participation
throughout
the
year
and
through
the
council
terms.
E
A
A
It
does
seem
to
be
a
lot
of
discussion
about
about
a
finance
committee,
even
though
it's
as
cancer
kind
of
said,
is
not
written
into
the
motion,
but
I
think
there
is
some
uneasiness
there.
The
only
thing
that
I
would
say
there
is.
I
actually
take
a
bit
of
a
different
view
on
this.
I
believe
we
do
have
a
finance
committee,
it
folds
city
council.
It
meets
every
two
weeks,
every
expenditure
you
know
that
comes
to
us.
We
can
ask
many
questions
of
counsel.
A
We
can
ask
our
staff,
we
can
ask
for
information,
we
can
probe,
we
can
debate,
we
can
discuss
it's
really
up
to
council
to
decide
how
far
and
how
and
where
we
want
to
probe
based
on
concerns
or
things
that
we
read,
and
so
I
think
that's
the
forum
and
mechanism
that
we
have.
The
concern
that
I
have
is,
of
course,
a
finance
committee
delegating
financial
decisions
to
a
subgroup
of
council.
A
These
are
very,
very
important,
there's
a
reason
why
all
of
council
should
be
involved
in
this
there's
a
reason
why
all
of
council
was
involved
in
setting
the
financial
targets
for
the
tax
rate
that
then
govern
all
of
these
subsequent
decisions
that
then
come
to
to
cancel.
So
that's
why,
yes,
we
take
a
very
different
approach
from
what
was
once
done
many
years
ago,
where
you
go
line
by
line
through
budget.
We
take
an
opposite
approach.
We
say
this
is
the
target
and
then
staff
work
towards
that
part.
A
I
think
it
works
way
way
better,
so
I
would
just
throw
that
out
there.
I
know
that
we're
not
talking
about
a
finance
committee,
but
I
just
want
to
be
on
record
saying
I
wouldn't
support
that
that
needs
to
stay
at
a
council
level.
That
being
said,
I
am
certainly
interested
and
happy
to
see
what
staff
would
bring
forward
in
terms
of
other
best
practices
to
be
able
to
improve
financial
oversight.
C
Thank
you,
worship,
and
through
you,
you
basically
answered
some
of
the
concerns
that
I
had
about
this
and
what
you
said
and
then
counselor
kylie
also
mentioned
some
things
that
addressed
some
of
the
concerns,
and
I
think
part
of
it
was
just
more
about
the
whole
issue
of
public
engagement
and
also
understanding
how
the
budgetary
process
works.
So
I
will
support
this
motion
because
I'm
interested
in
seeing
it's
basically
looking
for
more
information
and
and
doing
a
bit
more
research
and
staff
have
indicated
they
have
the
capacity
to
do
that.
C
So
I
think
it
comes
from
a
good
place
of
trying
to
engage
the
community
more
and
understand
the
process
better
and
if
the
end
result
of
this
is
is
to
educate
the
community
on
how
the
process
works
or
come
up
with
different
ways
of
looking
at
that
process
or
involving
the
community
in
that
process.
I
don't.
I
don't
really
think
it's
a
negative,
so
I
will
be
supporting
this
motion.
Thank
you.
O
Thank
your
worship
I'll,
be
supporting
this
motion
as
well.
I
feel
like
we'll
be
getting
good
information
and
the
more
information
the
better
it
helps
our
our
understanding
and
then
we
can
explain
it
to
our
constituents
and
tried
to
dispel
any
you
know
misconceptions
out
there
rumors.
You
know
second
guessing
about
what
the
city
is
doing,
so
I
I
definitely
support
this.
I
think
counselor
kiley
made
a
really
good
example
of
how
the
administrative
policies
committee
goes
into
committee
of
the
whole
to
ask.
O
You
know
detailed
questions
about
rideau
crest,
and
you
know
so.
I
would
probably
even
support
the
formation
of
a
finance
committee.
You
know
to
see
how
it
goes,
give
it
a
try
and
I
do
think
the
more
information
the
better,
and
I
do
like
that.
One
suggestion
already
about
looking
to
see
how
much
the
city
spends
on
consultants.
A
K
K
So
so,
when
someone
asked
for
more
clarity,
I
I'm
fine
with
that,
but
I
would
remember
that
you
asked
for
it.
You
got
to
do
the
work,
and
so
so.
In
that
sense
I
sort
of
like
okay,
if
I
just
ignore
the,
whereas
clauses
and
look
at
the
resolve
clause.
Okay,
maybe
but
I'm
more
concerned
about
the
the
issue
I
think
brought
up-
is
about
the
administration
policies
committee.
K
K
K
K
You
there's
always
going
to
be
an
opacity
opaqueness
between
you
and
what
the
staff
do
and
vice
versa,
because
the
roles
are
different.
That's
why
we
are
doing
as
council
mclaren
said,
with
what.
What
are
we
going
to
do
we're
not
so
much
dealing
with
how
now
we
can
question
that
and
that
sometimes
can
be
important,
but
we're
not
actually
doing
it,
and
I
don't.
I
think
people
should
we're
very
aware
that
in
a
situation
this
size
of
this
size
of
corporation,
you
are
not
going
to
know.
K
I
know
this
from
organizations
that
are
much
smaller
if
you're
not
doing
the
work
you're
not
going
to
understand
the
same
way,
partly
because
the
first
thing
a
staff
member
thinks
of
is
how
so
what
can
drive
them
a
little
crazy
from
time
to
time,
but
the?
How
is
what
they
first
think
of,
and
so
I,
if
I
think
I
might
vote
for
this,
but
I
will
not
be
voting
for
a
finance
committee
because
it
may
transmute
and
I
think
counselor
dougherty
said
this-
it
can
transmute
into
something
we
don't
want.
J
Okay,
it's
been
a
long
night,
I'm
tempted
to
ask
the
mover
a
few
questions,
get
a
few
a
little
back
and
forth
going.
But
I've
had
my
say
on
that.
No,
I
I
just
want
to
address
a
few
aspects
of
this,
because
I
I'm
currently
chair
of
the
administrative
policies
committee
and
yes,
we
received
the
audit
and
yes,
as
chris
mentioned,
we
did
ask
and
received
more
detailed
information
this
time
around
on
the
audit,
mostly
because
of
council
chappelle's
inquisitiveness.
J
Thank
you
for
that
counselor.
The
it's
always
been
clear
to
me,
because
the
chair
of
the
committee
actually
meets
with
the
auditors
and
with
the
treasurer
before
that,
before
it
comes
to
committee,
just
to
go
over
some
of
the
detail
and
a
very
high
level.
But
the
audit
process
is
real.
It
does
happen
at
the
committee,
but
ultimately
it
passes
or
doesn't
pass
counsel,
and
if
there
were
a
problem
with
the
audit
process,
it
is
up
to
us
the
buck
stops
with
us
here
at
council.
J
As
the
mayor
said,
it
is
you
can
have
committees,
but
they
should
all
feed
into
one
central
council
as
as,
as
it
does
currently.
So
that
is
perhaps
behind
that
reality
is
perhaps
why
council
mclaren
questions
the
need
for
this
process
with
this
report,
why
counselor
hill
was
saying
you
know.
Obviously
why
go
looking
for
a
problem
if
there
were
a
problem
that
we
would
have
picked
it
up
at
various
stages?
J
J
It
is
an
inconvenient
truth
that
we
all
live
with
that
we
are.
We
are
amateur
citizens
from
all
of
all
the
different
backgrounds
democratically.
We
need
to
be
here.
We
need
to
be
from
all
our
different
backgrounds,
all
our
different
geographical
areas,
because
we
are
standing
in
for
our
constituents
and
live
in
those
neighborhoods
and
we
need
to
be
amateurs
and
as
such,
not
accountants,
not
financial
experts,
but
we
also
need
more
transparency
than
than
we
currently
enjoy.
J
You
can
never
have
too
much.
We
had
it
as
a
priority
last
term
of
council
open
government.
We
didn't
really
get
the
transparency
piece,
I
gotta
say,
and
if
that's
what
this
is
taking
us
to,
I'm
all
for
it.
I
will
support
the
motion.
I'd
like
to
say
on
the
on
the
side
issue
of
whether
or
not
we
should
have
a
formal
finance
committee
or
not.
We
have
plenty
of
umbrella
committees.
We
have
four
umbrella
committees,
each
one
with
six
counselors
on
it.
J
We
could
easily
resolve
into
that
type
of
committee
with
same
as
councilor
kindly
said,
as
we
do
with
reno
crest
with
videocrest.
We
we
resolve
into
their
border
management,
and
we
go
into
that
detail.
We
could
do
that
from
a
financial
perspective,
not
just
at
the
audit,
but
in
other
times
I
think,
maybe
adding
having.
Maybe
that's
what
will
come
from
staff?
They
will
suggest
bringing
extra
reports
to
one
of
our
committees
and
therefore
to
council
to
look
at
this
and
if
it
adds
transparency,
I'm
all
for
it.
J
I
need
to
be
able
to
go
back
to
my
constituents
with
a
greater
level
of
certainty
that
I
can
speak
for
where
the
money
is
going.
That's
what
is
motivating
motivating,
counselor
chappelle,
and
I
and
and
I'm
I.
I
applaud
him
for
bringing
this
up.
It's
not
an
easy
subject
and
it
sounds
like
we
have
consensus
on
this
tonight.
Thank
you
all
for
your
thoughts.
Thank
you.
I
Thank
you,
worship
and
thank
you
for
my
counsel,
fellow
counselors,
for
asking
such
structured
and
well-thought-out
questions.
This
is
definitely
a
topic,
that's
worthy
of
debate,
and
I
appreciate
that
over
the
course
of
this
term.
I've
raised
issues
of
financial
scrutiny
and
it's
only
because
the
constituents
I've
talked
to
want
to
understand
more.
This
is
not
a
witch
hunt
for
staff,
I'm
very
confident
in
the
work
the
staff
does,
but
sometimes
we
just
don't
have
all
the
information
it's
like.
We
like
counselor,
holland
or
sorry.
I
I
just
suggested
it's
like
standing
on
the
grand
canyon,
we're
at
one
side
and
staff
are
on
the
other
staff.
Do
all
the
work
every
day
and
we
do
it.
You
know
a
couple
hours
a
week,
so
there's
a
huge
information
gap.
All
I'm
trying
to
do
is
clean
out
more
information,
so
we
can
share
with
our
constituents,
so
we
can
help
them
understand
how
we're
supporting
them
in
our
community,
our
great
community,
and
so
with
that.
I
just
look
forward
to
what
staff
comes
back
at.
I
A
You
okay,
thank
you.
So
with
that
we
will
call
the
vote
number
one,
all
those
in
favor
post
and
that
carries
new
emotion,
number
two
moved
by
council
hutchinson
seconded
by
councillor
osanic,
whereas
innate
the
capital
developments,
inc
and
photon
consultants,
inc
have
requested
a
zoning
bylaw
amendment
for
property,
municipally
known
as
223
princess
street,
and
whereas
the
delegation
of
authority
bylaw
allows
for
council
to
bump
up
site
plan
control.
Applications
to
planning
committee
therefore
be
a
result
of
the
site
plan.
Control
application
for
223
princess
street,
be
bumped
up
to
the
planning
committee
officer.
K
K
But
now
this
is
an
allowance
in
our
rules
of
order
and
procedure
that
allows
the
public
to
talk
about
the
details
that
were
not
included
in
the
motion
that
was
passed
just
a
couple
of
meetings
ago.
So
I'm
just
asking
council
to
allow
that
to
happen.
Give
the
the
public,
which
is
the
opportunity
thanks
very
much.
O
Thank
your
worship
just
to
follow
up
with
what
counselor
hutchinson
said
for
those
members
at
council,
especially
who
weren't
at
the
planning
committee
meetings
may
be.
So
the
the
issues
that
were
addressed
at
the
public
meetings
that
we
need
site
plan
to
look
at
are
bicycle
storage
the
balconies,
especially
because
we
we
don't
have
the
balconies
all
being
recessed
they're
sticking
out,
so
they
allowed
uses
for
the
balconies.
How
who's
gonna
monitor
the
inappropriate
use?
O
How
will
it
be
controlled
by
who
the
consequences
like
we
don't
want
to
have
the
balconies
full
of
bikes
and
rubbermaid
containers
the
storage
units,
I'm
in
the
building?
How
many
where
who
gets
to
use
them
the
conservation
of
the
facade
on
princess
street?
What
is
the
conservation
plan?
Who
will
verify
that
it
meets
the
heritage
requirements
the
loading
zone?
Apparently
the
zoning
bylaw
right
now
doesn't
allow
for
screening.
Screening
would
be
good.
O
Will
there
be
a
restriction
on
the
hours
of
use,
the
garbage
pickup
from
the
loading
zone,
or
will
the
garbage
be
picked
up
from
inside
the
parking
garage
recycling?
Where
are
the
bins
going
to
be
who's
going
to
check
that
they're
properly
sorted?
There
seems
to
be
a
rumor
that
there's
going
to
be
separate,
garbage
shoots
and
the
garbage
chutes
will
also
be
for
recycling.
So
we
want
to
ensure
that
the
recycling
would
actually
be
separated
from
the
garbage
on
the
green
bin
pickup.
O
J
It's
your
worship,
I
I
will
support
this
bump
up
motion.
I
think
it's
it's
rational!
It's
it's
mandatory!
Almost
thank
you
to
the
councilors
husseinson
and
now
sanik
for
bringing
it
forward.
I
just
want
to
point
out
it.
It
was
in
the
news
that
we're
not
out
of
the
woods
yet
on
this
on
this
application
and
that
a
very
strong
saipan
dealing
and
treatment
and
public
process
with
this
will
help
will
hopefully
help
soften
the
the
eventual
intrusion
of
this
of
this
development.