►
Description
City Council meeting from November 6, 2018. For the full meeting agenda visit http://bit.ly/2MbTvrq
A
How
could
evening,
ladies
and
gentlemen,
say,
go
Ani
Buju
watch
a
quake
way.
It's
the
mayor
of
the
city
of
kingston.
I
offer
these
words
in
the
spirit
of
this
gathering.
Let
us
bring
our
good
minds
and
hearts
together
as
one
to
honor
and
celebrate
these
traditional
lands
as
a
gathering
place
of
the
original
peoples
and
their
ancestors
who
were
entrusted
to
care
from
other
earth
since
time
immemorial.
A
A
Okay,
thank
you.
So
next
we
will
look
to
approve
the
adits.
There
is
an
addition
of
a
delegation,
a
report
from
Planning
Committee
and
the
deletion
of
new
motion
number
two
and
then
a
replacement
of
new
motion
number
two
and
then
some
communications
can
I
have
a
mover
for
the
add-ins.
Please
moved
by
Councillor,
Hall
and
seconded
by
councillor
Neill.
A
A
A
All
right
so
last
night
in
Memorial
Hall,
it
was
my
great
pleasure
to
have
presented
the
mayor's
Arts
Awards
for
2018
to
five
members
of
the
Kingston
community
for
their
artistic
achievements
and
extraordinary
contributions
in
and
to
the
arts.
So
I'd
like
to
officially
present
the
2018
recipients
with
their
certificates
on
behalf
of
the
City
of
Kingston,
and
the
reason
why
we
do
this
part
here
in
the
City
Council
meeting
is
so
that
each
of
the
names
of
the
recipients
will
be
included
in
the
City
Council
minutes.
A
So
first,
the
first
category
of
award
is
the
creator
award
and
it
recognizes
living
artists,
artistic
collectives
or
arts
organizations.
Three
creator
awards
are
given
each
year
to
honor
artistic
merit.
And/Or
innovation
that
advances
the
Arts
in
the
city
contributes
to
the
development
of
the
art
form
and
expresses
the
cultural
vitality
of
Kingston.
The
2018
recipients
are
Erin
ball
on
a
ghonte,
Blanchard
and
Clark
McKay.
Congratulations,
Erin
on
a
got
way
and
Clark
I
invite
you
to
come
up
now
to
receive
your
recipient
certificates.
A
The
second
category
of
award
is
the
Arts
champion
award
and
the
Arts
champion
award
recognizes
a
living
individual
organization
or
corporation
making
an
extraordinary
leading
contribution
to
the
arts
and
Kingston.
As
a
volunteer
advocate
supporter
sponsor
or
philanthropist,
the
2018
recipient
is
karen
peppercorn
Karen.
Please.
A
And
finally,
the
third
category
of
Ward
is
the
limestone
arts
Legacy
Award.
The
limestone
arts
legacy
award
recognizes
individuals
from
the
past,
whose
sustained
and
substantial
contributions
have
built
the
artistic
vitality
of
the
city
nurturing
and
enabling
forms
of
creation,
participation,
presentation
and
enjoyment
whose
leadership
has
inspired
others
and
whose
influence
has
been
felt
in
the
region
and
beyond.
The
2018
recipient
is
Kim
renders
and
Kim's
husband,
Robert
Lindsay
will
be
accepting
the
award
Robert.
Please
come
on.
A
So
again,
congratulations
and
thank
you
to
all
the
2018
mayor's
Arts
Awards
recipients,
and
we
just
so
appreciate
all
of
your
contributions
to
the
culture
of
vitality
of
Kingston.
Of
course,
you're
welcome
to
stay
for
the
rest
of
the
City
Council
meeting,
but,
of
course,
if
you
would
like
to
just
slip
it
at
this
point,
we
certainly
understand
that
as
well.
Okay,
so.
A
I'm
gonna
shift
back
over
to
my
normal
chair,
and
so
we
have
a
second
presentation
on
this
evening.
Jann
MacDonald
project
manager,
Marketing
at
downtown
Kingston,
BIA
and
sandy
Wilson
of
Alexander
Wilson
architect,
incorporated,
will
present
council
with
a
framed
set
of
the
limited-edition
2017
pewter
collection
and
announced
the
2018
pewter
collection.
D
Thank
You
mayor
Paterson,
I'm
Jan
sandy,
unfortunately
couldn't
be
here
at
this
evening
that
sends
his
regrets.
Thank
you
so
much
for
welcoming
here
that
welcoming
me
here
this
evening.
I
am
very
excited
and
pleased
to
announce
that
2018
is
actually
our
25th
anniversary
of
doing
the
pewter
ornament
collectibles
in
downtown
Kingston.
We
didn't
think
it
would
last
this
long,
but
it's
amazing
how
many
wonderful
buildings
and
landmarks
there
are
in
our
city.
So,
as
you
probably
know,
each
holiday
season,
five
of
Kingston's,
most
beloved
and
well-known
landmarks,
are
selected
to
be
cast
as
holiday.
D
Pewter
ornaments,
it's
a
chance
to
celebrate
the
wide
array
of
local
properties
that
are
rich
with
historic
value
in
our
city.
This
program
has
been,
and
continues
to
be
tremendously
popular
with
Kingstonian
previous
residents,
tourists
and
people
from
a
far
away
as
BC
and
Alberta
who
want
memories
of
their
time
in
Kingston.
Each
ornament
has
a
value
of
over
20
dollars,
but
is
made
available
to
everyone
for
only
$10
upon
presentations
of
a
$25
receipt
from
any
downtown
business,
and
that
can
be
the
grocery
store.
Your
dentist.
D
It
doesn't
matter
as
long
as
you've
spent
it
in
downtown
Kingston
expert
opinions
are
coupled
with
valuable
public
input
during
this
building
selection
process.
The
committee
does
its
best
to
ensure
each
year's
collection
is
balanced,
attractive
and
representative
of
the
sites
we've
chosen
here
at
we
choose
from
here
in
Kingston.
D
This
year's
collection
is
going
to
be
launched
on
Monday
November,
the
19th
one
ornament
will
be
available
each
Monday
until
the
final
ornament
is
revealed
on
December
17th.
Here's
our
list
for
this
year
first
up
is
Baron,
says
grocery
on
Union,
Street,
I'm.
Sure
many
of
you
are
familiar
with
that
business.
We
decided
to
honor
it
this
year
because
they're
celebrating
100
you
as
parents
as
grocery
second
is
the
mulberry
Waldorf
School
on
Marklin
Street,
a
lovely,
symmetrical
brick
building
that
was
once
the
st.
John
school
and
is
now
the
home
of
Mulberry
Waldorf.
D
The
third
is
Sacred
Heart
of
Mary
Church
Catholic
Church
on
Wolfe
Island.
We
decided
to
honor
this
church
this
year
because
looking
into
it
I,
don't
know
if
you've
ever
been
there,
but
the
facade
itself
and
the
building
is
absolutely
beautiful.
They
had
a
fire
that
they
had
to
renovate
inside
the
church
and
it
was
reopened.
This
is
the
part.
I
found
really
interesting
reopened
on
Christmas
Eve
of
last
year,
exactly
100
years
after
the
first
mass
in
that
church,
so
not
only
a
beautiful
building,
but
some
interesting
history
as
they
honor.
D
Fourth
is
James
Reed
furniture
on
princess,
Street,
I'm
sure
you're,
all
aware
of
that
building,
and
we
were
surprised
we
hadn't
done
that
one
yet
because
it
really
is
a
stunning
store
and
facade
on
princess
Street
and
finally,
we're
doing
something
different
this
year
to
celebrate
the
25th
anniversary,
we
are
bringing
back
an
ornament,
one
that
we
are
asked
for.
Every
year
it
sold
out
its
first
year
very
quickly,
which
was
1997
I
believe
so
we
are
bringing
back.
D
The
Kingston
Penitentiary
seemed
appropriate,
so
it's
mentioned
all
of
the
ornaments
are
available
for
$10
with
receipts
and
they
are
going
to
be
on
sale
at
the
visitor
and
visitor
experience
center
across
the
street,
the
grand
theater
box
office
and
the
Leon
Center
box
office.
So
in
celebration
of
the
wonderful
history
and
architecture
possessed
in
our
city,
as
well
as
the
continued
support
given
to
us
by
mayor
Paterson
and
city
council,
we're
pleased
to
present
a
frame
set
to
add
to
your
collection
of
the
2017
limited-edition
pewter
collectibles.
Thank
you
very
much.
A
Okay,
thank
you
very
much
so
at
this
point
we
will
move
on
in
our
agenda
to
delegations.
We
have
one
delegation
this
evening:
Martin
Skolnick,
president
of
Frontenac,
Club
Incorporated
and
Raymond's,
a
back
partner,
Schultz
and
a
back
architects.
Limited
will
appear
before
council
to
speak
to
Klaus
a31,
a
report
87
received
from
Heritage
Kingston
with
respect
to
an
application
for
heritage,
permit
225,
King,
Street
East,
and
just
a
reminder
to
our
delegation
that
you
have
five
minutes.
Please
come
forward.
E
Your
worship,
mayor,
Brian,
Patterson,
esteemed
members
of
council,
city
staff
and
members
of
the
public.
Thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
speak
to
you
tonight.
My
name
is
Martin
Skolnick
I'm,
one
of
the
proud
owners
of
the
frog
net
Club
in.
In
fact,
we
are
the
fifth
owner
in
the
history
of
this
iconic
property
dating
back
to
1845.
E
Our
plan
is
to
close
the
business
down
on
December,
9th
and
start
renovations
immediately
following
subject
to
receiving
council
approval
here
tonight
and
obtaining
all
their
other
required
approvals
in
to
reopen
as
a
20,
sweet
boutique
hotel
as
soon
as
possible
in
the
summer
of
2019
summer
is,
of
course,
any
Kingston.
Hotel
years
busiest
and
most
profitable
part
of
the
year
are
part
of
this
year.
So
we
are
hopeful
that
we
can
stay
on
schedule
since
we
were
limited
to
a
five
minutes.
E
F
Thanks
Martin
just
want
to
start
off
with
a
quick
sort
of
overview
of
what
we're
doing
there
for
anyone
who's
not
familiar
I,
know,
members
of
council
and
the
two
members
of
the
Heritage
Committee
here
would
be
familiar
with
this,
but
Martin
mentioned
the
building
is
currently
a
hotel
with
16
rooms.
This
will
be
increased
through
this
renovation
to
20
rooms.
There
will
be
a
significant
upgrade
and
modernization
in
those
rooms.
There
will
be
an
enhanced
food
service,
a
renovation
of
the
outdoor
patio,
a
kind
of
a
rich
landscaping
program
for
the
site.
F
We're
going
to
be
using
a
lot
of
the
existing
fabric
of
the
building
fabric.
I
mean
the
historic
parts
of
the
building
life
safety
aspects.
New
building
will
be
improved,
emergency
egress
system
will
be
improved.
There
will
now
be
an
ability
to
get
throughout
the
facility
without
having
to
go
outside,
I.
F
Think
anyone
who
stayed
there
knows
that
the
Cartwright
building
the
1820s
building
that
the
east
end
of
the
site
can't
be
accessed
from
the
main
building
you'll
to
go
back
outside
we're
gonna
connect
the
two
buildings
through
this
renovation
and
we're
going
to
enhance
a
couple
of
the
or
three
of
the
existing
hotel
rooms
by
providing
some
stone
and
glass
additions
on
the
top
of
the
building
at
the
rear.
Behind
the
original
Bank
of
Montreal
building.
F
We
don't
do
these
projects
alone.
We
there's
a
lot
of
consultation
and
we've
had
numerous
consultations
with,
of
course,
Martin
and
his
partners,
city
staff.
We've
responded,
I,
think
and
worked
with
city
staff
to
address
their
comments
and
concerns.
We
had
a
pre
consultation
meeting
with
the
Heritage
Committee
made
several
adjustments,
including
adjustments
to
the
architecture
of
the
additions
we're
proposing
on
the
building,
and
we
seem
to
have
consider
be
considerable
report
from
the
Heritage
Committee
for
99%
say
of
this
proposal.
We
met
with
the
Heritage
Committee.
F
We
had
pre
consultation
meeting
as
I
mentioned,
we
at
our
heritage
approval
meeting
where
we
went
to
get
our
heritage
permit.
There
were
four
members
present
that
I
guess
constitutes
a
quorum.
We
had
two
members
that
had
an
enthusiastic
support.
I
call
that
enthusiastic
support
for
our
proposal
to
members
and
in
one
of
the
members
words
were
90%
supportive,
but
they
had
some
concerns
about
the
architecture
of
the
glass
additions.
The
pre
consultation
meeting
had
talked
about
those
glass
additions
and
we
did
make
some
adjustments
to
those.
F
F
A
F
Okay,
I,
just
I,
didn't
realize
speaking
that
slowly,
but
we
thought
it
was
running
through
this.
We
do
have
I
just
want
to
point
out
and
I
think
this
was
distributed
to
council
today
we
do
have
a
letter
from
or
a
memo
from,
Karl
Bray,
who
actually
wrote
the
guidelines
for
development
of
the
Sydenham
ward,
historic
district,
who
and
I
quote
as
co-author
of
the
policies
and
guidelines
contained
in
the
plan,
I
support
city,
staffs
interpretation
of
the
proposed
designs
response
to
the
guideline
in
Section.
F
G
The
letter
he
was
just
reading
you
were
just
reading.
Mr.
daebak
is
on
the
back
of
the
day
of
the
audits
and
I.
Would
just
ask
you
to
read
the
last.
You
were
just
doing
that
when
you
ran
at
a
time
the
last
the
last
half
the
last
paragraph,
where
he
he
puts
it
in
context
with
the
what
would
maybe
not
be
permissible
under
the
five
point.
Four
point:
two:
if
you
could
just
read
that
section
well,
because
I
feel,
like
that's
very
telling,
can.
G
F
A
lead
consultant
for
Sydenham
Heritage,
Conservation,
District,
study
and
plan,
and
his
co-author
of
the
policies
and
guidelines
contained
in
that
plan.
I
support,
City,
staffs
interpretation
of
the
proposed
designs
response
to
the
guideline
in
Section.
Five
point
four
point:
two:
the
intent
of
that
guideline
was
to
preclude
large
glazed
rear
additions
to
properties
that
would
dominate
the
existing
building,
as
well
as
the
adjacent
streetscape
due
to
being
visible
from
the
flanking
street.
For
example,
a
large
rear
wing
entirely
glazed
would
not
meet
the
guideline.
F
However,
small
glazed
components
of
rear
additions,
though
visible
from
the
public
realm,
do
not
dominate
the
built
heritage
resource
and,
as
a
result,
meet
the
guideline.
In
this
case,
it
is
my
opinion
that
the
design
of
the
glazed
component
of
the
addition
with
dividing
spandrels
is
an
acceptable
response
to
the
garden
line.
Thank.
F
If
you
were
the
original
proposal
here,
there's
a
there's
a
picture
of
one
of
these.
There
are
actually
two
of
these
on
the
building.
One
is
on
the
top
of
the
courtyard
there
facing
William
Street.
The
other
is
at
the
I.
Guess,
that's
the
south
east
corner
of
the
building.
You
can
see
it
by
the
fire
escape
there.
F
When
we
originally
proposed
this.
At
the
pre
consultation
meeting,
we
had
a
single
horizontal
amoliant
at
the
floor
level.
The
window
panels
spanned
from
floor
to
floor.
We
articulated
those
a
little
bit
by
bringing
in
these,
are
translucent
spandrels
at
the
roof
elevation
and
at
the
floor
elevation
to
bring
the
scale
of
those
elevado's.
F
H
F
Being
attribute,
of
course,
it
got
building
on
the
corner.
It's
a
big
neoclassical
building,
there's
huge
scale
this
building
as
a
series
sort
of
that
building
with
a
bunch
of
complex
additions
on
the
rear.
The
additions
we're
talking
about
actually
sit
on
top
of
the
existing
stone
walls
that
are
there,
we're
not
taking
in
hill
as
walls
down
we're
simply
augmenting
the
the
building
with
these
pieces,
we're
not
taking
anything
off
the
building,
we're
adding
components
to
the
building,
so
the
glass
on
that
elevation.
F
Actually,
you
can
determine
the
division
there
between
what
you
see
there
today
and
what
we're
we're
putting
on
here.
It's
a
clear
and
distinctive
new
addition
and
I
think
that's.
There
are
words
in
the
Heritage
Conservation
District
guidelines
that
talk
about.
This
is
a
applicable
strategy
to
this
kind
of
project.
H
Thank
you,
and
despite
the
reason
that
staff
have
agreed
to
this
plan
is
that
the
glass
is
set
back
if
it
were
sort
of
on
the
street
dominating
the
building
that
wouldn't
be
appropriate
for
the
Heritage
District
plan.
But
because
it's
set
back
and
and
the
other
part
is
actually,
you
can't
really
view
it
from
the
streetscape
that
that's
why
staff
agreed
that
this
was
acceptable.
Yes,.
A
So
with
that
we
will
move
on.
We
have
no
other
delegations.
We
have
no
briefings.
Are
there
any
petitions
to
present
okay,
seeing
none
we
will
move
on.
We
have
two
motions
of
condolence
first
move
by
Mayor
Patterson
second
by
deputy
mayor
Schell,
that
the
condolences
of
Kingston
City
Council
be
extended
to
the
friends
and
family
of
Sporus
Calais,
director
facility
facilities,
management
and
construction
services
on
the
passing
of
his
father,
Michael
Kanellis
on
October
3rd
2018
Michael
will
be
dearly
missed
by
all
those
that
knew
him
our
thoughts.
A
Coordinator
and
later
is
the
director
of
the
neighborhood
Improvement
Program
Gordon,
made
many
positive
contributions
to
the
Corporation
and
was
well
respected
for
his
dedication
to
serving
the
community.
Gordon
left
a
legacy
of
honor
generosity
and
respect
for
others.
He
will
be
greatly
missed
by
so
many.
Our
thoughts
are
with
his
family
during
this
difficult
time.
So
we
will
call
the
vote.
Please.
A
B
A
Okay
separations.
We
will
first
deal
with
the
balance
of
the
clauses
so
Clause
one
medical,
tiered
response
program,
agreement
with
the
county
of
Frontenac
paramedic
service
clause,
2
award
of
contract
for
janitorial
services
for
1211,
John,
Kendrew,
Boulevard
clause,
three
award
of
contract
for
janitorial
services
for
21
Court,
Street,
courthouse
clause
for
award
of
contract
for
inspection,
maintenance
and
repairs
of
overhead
doors
for
the
City
of
Kingston
and
clause.
Six
award
of
contractor
demolition
services
for
1084
Sydenham
Road,
we'll
call
the
vote.
Please.
G
You
worship
I
have
a
question
to
staff
about
basically
the
the
essence
of
this
of
this
item.
So
there
you'll
see
there
there's
a
cost
and
because
it
was
a
sole
source,
it
needs
council
approval
so
before
we
give
that
could
maybe
staff
just
tell
council
and
those
watching
the
the
reason
that
this
has
to
be
an
external
hire
for
this
role
for
this
project.
A
I
I
We
try
to
figure
out
the
best
approach
to
this.
To
be
quite
honest,
and
we
wanted
to
make
sure
that
who
we
retain
actually
had
some
form
of
experience
to
carry
on
these
types
of
conversations
within
communities.
So
the
team
that's
being
recommended
to
Council
tonight
is
actually
a
team
that
was
involved
in
the
entire
federal
reconciliation
process.
So
it
is
a
team
that
comes
forward
with
the
type
of
expertise,
experience
and
knowledge
that
is
quite
unique
out
there
in
the
market,
and
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we
get
this
right.
I
G
So
that
answers
the
expertise
and
why
the
external
hire
now
there's
another
question.
A
different
aspect
is:
how
is
this
going
to
interact
with
the
committee's
and
with
counsel
and
the
decision-makers
at
city
level,
when
there
is
a
result
of
this
process
like
what
can
we
look
forward
to
if
you
could
explain
that,
please
Commissioner.
A
I
Mayor
so
as
we
do
retain
a
number
of
consultants
to
work
on
various
projects,
we
usually
consult
with
committees.
In
this
case,
we
anticipate
that
the
era
tidge
committee,
for
example,
or
heritage
Kingston,
would
be
in
they're
quite
involved
in
this
particular
process
and
dialogue,
and
there
may
be
other
committees
as
well.
There
would
be
information
that
would
be
coming
back
to
council
as
well,
so
it's
not
a
process
that
will
be
completely
isolated
from
committees
and
council.
G
G
A
H
Mayor
Paterson,
yes,
I,
was
at
at
the
meeting
and
I
can
remember
when
the
discussion
came
up,
that
the
plan
had
been
changed
to
accommodate
the
concerns
of
a
couple
of
the
members.
So
the
plan
was
changed
to
put
the
bar
across
the
the
windows
and
there
was
a
change
to
the
fire
escape
to
make
it
look
less
intrusive,
I
think
those
were
the
two
I
remember
and
I
thought.
The
committee
was
satisfied
and
part
of
it
was
we
discussed
things
like
the
the
plan
and,
what's
allowable
in
the
plan,
plus,
what's
already
in
Kingston.
H
The
Bartlett
gym
right
now
at
Queen's
has
two
glass
additions
going
on
set
back,
just
as
the
plan
calls
for
and
not
nearly
as
massive
as
the
Bartlett
gym,
but
they
are
glass
and
another
big
one
in
Kingston
back
in
the
70s
I.
Remember
it
well,
when
the
Donald
Gordon
Center
was
created,
it's
a
beautiful,
limestone,
building,
Roselawn
and
then
a
very
modern
for
the
time
edition
was
put
on
and
I've
never
heard,
complaints
about
that.
H
One
I
think
people
considered
that
good
architecture
that
fit
what
was
being
asked
of
the
two
buildings
and
then
another
one
for
me,
when
my
kids
went
to
Victoria
public
school,
the
addition
of
the
business
school
is
a
modern
addition
that
has
basically
enhanced
the
school.
If
you
don't
walk
by
there
and
feel
that
something
terrible's
happened,
Victoria
public
school,
so
I
must
admit.
I
was
surprised
at
the
way
the
boat
went
because
I
think
what's
going
to
happen
to
the
front
neck
in
is
going
to
be
an
incredible
enhancement.
H
The
windows,
the
doors,
the
way
any
problems
with
the
limestone
that
are
there
now
the
building
is
tired
and
it
certainly
needs
some
land.
It
needs
the
investment,
and
if
this
is
the
way
to
get
the
investment,
that
also
fits
the
plan,
I'm
quite
happy
to
vote
for
it
and
I
hope
you
will
too.
Thank
you.
Thank.
G
G
That
said,
he
would
have
supported
the
application
and
but
I
didn't
consult
with
the
vice-chair
and
he
he
was
one
of
the
two
that
voted
against
the
recommendation,
but
he
did
send
me
correspondence
after
the
fact
more
recently
saying
that
most
of
the
elements
I
think
he
said
he
is
the
one
that
said.
99%
I
was
trying
to
find
that
part.
G
G
As
you
see
it
that
limestone
building
the
original
Bank
plus
the
additions
that
all
that's
what's
described
in
the
Heritage
District
plan
and
then
there's
some
guidelines
that
talk
about
how
to
do
additions
and
how
do
how
to
treat
thing,
how
did
a
door
what
guidelines
to
follow
these
are
always
suggestions
in
the
district
plan,
and
then
we
have
this
letter
from
the
author
of
the
district
plan
and
so
what
happens,
Carl,
Bray,
sort
of
clarifying
and
then
thinking
I.
The
reason
I
had
mr.
G
daebak,
the
architect
read
that
paragraph
is
I,
think
it
really
sums
it
up.
Had
it
been
a
full
winged,
glass,
Edition
on
one
side
or
or
a
whole,
a
whole
sort
of
stand-alone
Edition.
That
was
all
in
glass.
It
might
have
really
been
incompatible
with
the
district
plan
as
as
it's
written,
but
as
a
small
addition
in
isolation.
It's
really
a
subjective
call,
it's
a
subjective
call
whether
or
not
you
think
it
fits
with
the
building.
So
that's
really
what
your
decision
is.
G
If
you
think
those
two
small
glass
additions
are
okay
with
the
with
the
overall
Heritage
feel
of
the
building,
then
then
there's
no
reason
not
to
give
the
permit,
and
so
as
I,
wasn't
there
I'm
not
going
to
give
my
opinion,
but
I
think
that
you
can
make
up
your
minds
as
long
as
you
have
that
context.
So
thank
you.
Thank.
A
You
for
reminding
Souls,
although
it's
classified
location,
not
supported
for
approval
by
Heritage
Kingston.
It
comes
to
council
as
a
straight
recommendation.
So
if
you
approve
the
Heritage
permit,
then
you
vote.
Yes,
if
you
want
to
deny
the
Heritage
permit,
then
you
would
vote.
No,
so
yes
means
yes,
no
means
no.
A
J
B
A
K
Your
worship,
so
just
looking
at
the
chart
on
page
225
there
are,
and
throughout
the
report,
references
different
operations
of
various
types
of
facilities,
outdoor
rinks
and
those
that
are
staffed
and
not
staffed,
and
all
that
the
thing
that
I
found
that
I
was
interested
in
on
this
in
this
chart
is
the
fact
that
some
parks
are
lit
and
some
are
not
some
outdoor
skating
rinks
are
not,
and
this
sort
of
coincides
with
those
that
are
staffed
and
those
are
not
better.
Not.
K
But
one
question
that
I
have
is
whether
the
lighting
of
parks
that
have
existing
outdoor
rinks,
whether
they're
operated
by
volunteers,
those
that
are
operated
by
volunteers,
whether
the
lighting
of
those
facilities,
is
something
that
can
be
addressed
to
ensure
that
that
this
getting
surfaces
can
be
used
after
5:00
p.m.
mr.
L
Polo
through
your
worship,
certainly,
we
can
review
each
facility.
That's
currently
not
not
lit.
In
some
cases
it
can
be
challenging
for
us
to
provide
power
to
those
locations,
as
some
of
the
the
outdoor
rinks
are
isolated,
but
on
a
case-by-case
basis,
for
happy
to
take
a
look
and
make
some
improvements
where
the
interest
is.
K
L
Pollow
through
your
work,
this
would
be
specific
to
those
outdoor
rink
locations,
but
once
again
it
would
depend
on
the
location
we
wouldn't
want
to
have
a
light
out.
Look
some
distance
away
from
the
street
without
a
safe
way
to
get
there.
So
that's
where
it
can
be
challenging
if
we
have
to
go
through
a
full
detailed
park,
lighting
system
just
to
get
to
an
outdoor
rink
and
may
that
the
potential
that
the
cost
might
not
be
justified.
Last
year
we
only
had
20
outdoor
days
of
skating,
so
to
light
a
rink.
K
Great,
thank
you
I
guess,
and
to
bring
up
which
is
not
I.
Do
know
that,
based
on
the
report
and
on
on
conversations
I've
had
with
staff
that
this
type
of
the
policy
that
we
see
in
the
report
is
flexible
enough,
that
neighborhood
organizations
volunteers
can
come
forward
and
have
the
discussions
and
create
the
types
of
surfaces
that
are
feasible,
I
guess
throughout
the
winter
months,
but
I
think
one
thing
that
this
report
brings
up
is
the
fact
that
we
have.
K
We
do
have
a
policy
that
speaks
to
the
lighting
of
recreational
spaces
and
because
our
municipal
facilities,
our
parks,
general
recreational
parks,
are
not
meant
to
be
used
in
the
evening.
There's
no
lighting,
but
a
number
of
residents
have
brought
up
the
fact
that,
often
especially
this
time
of
year,
children
are
still
playing
the
weather
is
warm
and
it
would
really
be
desirable
to
have
lighting
in
in
a
multiple
in
in
multiple
city
parks.
It's
great
that
we
have
it
in
the
winter
months.
It's
just
something
I
think
I
wanted
to
flag
this.
A
A
And
that
carries
okay
now,
there's
nothing
from
community
of
the
whole
move
to
information
reports.
If
you
have
a
question,
just
raise
your
hand
when
I
get
to
it
number
one
reports
on
agreements
executed
under
delegated
approval
and
signing
Authority
July
1st
2018
to
September
30th,
2018
number
2
tender
and
contract
Awards,
subject
to
the
established
criteria
for
delegation
of
authority
for
the
month
of
August
2018
number
3
status,
update
on
townhomes
Kingston
project
in
difficulty,
councillor
Newell
thank.
M
I
You
for
you,
mr.
mayor,
so
a
couple
of
things
that
I
want
to
point
out
before.
Just
before
I
answer
the
question
we
do
have
Adam
young
from
Sakura
Ross,
who
actually
completed
the
2017
audited.
Statements
are
included
in
in
your
package
tonight
in
terms
of
more
detailed
questions
that
you
might
have,
but
as
far
as
the
questions
related
to
when
we
receive
them,
we
actually
receive
them
about
a
month
ago
or
so
in
terms
of
their
draft
form
to
us.
M
I
You
Anne
through
surveyor,
so
as
to
my
knowledge,
this
is
a
firm
that
has
completed
audited
statements
for
a
number
of
years
now
for
townhomes
Kingston
and
the
board
of
director
of
townhomes
Kingston
itself
made
a
decision
to
to
obviously
retain
them
again
in
2017,
which
was
last
year
to
complete
their
financial
statements.
Thank.
M
N
Young
through
you,
mr.
mayor,
the
the
not
to
be
pedantic
when
we
use
the
term
surplus.
Typically
we're
talking
about
revenues,
less
expenses,
so
certainly
one
of
the
properties
that
was
owned
by
the
corporation
was
remortgaged
during
the
2016
fiscal
year,
so
the
cash
balance
went
up
and
the
mortgage
payable
balance
went
up,
but
that
would
not
have
created
a
surplus
as
I
see
it
from
an
accounting
perspective.
Thank.
M
I
You,
mr.
mayor,
so
from
from
our
perspective,
after
being
involved
with
the
operations
of
townhomes
Kingston
for
a
few
months,
we
we
did
not
see
the
value
based
on
the
contract
arrangement
that
was
in
place,
and
that
is
the
reason
why
we
decided
to
terminate
that
contract.
As
indicated
in
the
report,
that's
before
you
and
and
move
to
a
different
model.
M
J
In
the
draft
financial
statements
it
indicates
that
they
can't
maintenance
contract
contract
maintenance.
It's
called
here
the
total
amount
for
maintenance
administration
of
that
contract
comes
to
you
know.
I
can
be
corrected
by
the
Commissioner.
Are
the
five
hundred
ninety
three
thousand
plus
dollars
and
the
amount
that
was
said
from
2016.
The
total
actual
was
fifty
thousand
five.
Fifty
four
am
I.
Reading
this
correctly,
that's
my
first
question:
that's
on
page
219
of
the
thing
two:
seventy
three
of
our
package:
okay,.
N
Through
you,
mr.
mayor,
the
item
that
you're
you're
looking
at
councillor
for
the
2016
comparatives,
the
fifty
thousand
five
four
for
that
number-
comprises
various
contract
maintenance
expenditures
incurred
by
the
corporation
during
2016,
which
are
not
exclusive
to
the
the
maintenance
contract
that
that
you're,
referring
to
so
that
that
that
would
be
all
contract
maintenance.
Not
just
the
the
service
provider
that
that
you're
asking
about
okay.
N
N
Mister
again
through
you,
miss
me
if
I
was
to
try
to
I,
think
do
the
analysis
they
do.
I
would
be
probably
trying
to
compare
the
maintenance,
wages
and
benefits
number
that
you
see
in
the
fiscal
2016
column,
which
represents
wages
and
benefits
paid
to
internally
employed
property
management
staff,
to
the
amounts
that
you're,
seeing
in
the
2017
fiscal
year.
J
Right
that
seems
to
be
main
interest
is
that
on
this,
on
this
point
anyway,
is
that
it
indicates
that
in
under
finances
on
page
252,
page
five
to
six
the
2017,
an
audit
indicates
a
hundred
and
eighty
thousand
four
forty
nine
operating
deficit.
That's
for
one
year,
the
one
year
2017.
Is
that
correct?
My
reading
at.
J
N
So
question
asked
mr.
young,
certainly
through
three
mister
mayor.
If
you
were
to
look
at
page
258
of
the
package,
I
believe
the
hundred
and
eighty
thousand
dollars
that
you're
looking
for
would
be
comprised
of
the
roughly
one
hundred
and
forty-one
thousand
five.
Eighty
seven
in
the
municipal
column
for
numbers
up
from
the
bottom
plus
the
number
directly
decided
in
the
Eldon
Hall
column,
38,000.
O
A
I
A
I
You
so
we
do
not
yet
have.
Obviously
the
2018
audited
numbers
were
providing
you
with
the
2017
and
I
appreciate
that
took
some
time
to
actually
get
the
audited
statements
for
for
that
year.
But
we
do
know
that
there
are
certain
trends
that
started
in
2017
that
continued
for
a
period
of
time
in
2018,
one
of
them
being
the
maintenance
contract
that
that's
been
referred
to.
So
we
we
did
change
our
contract
for
maintenance,
but
that
wasn't
until
I
believe
it
was
November
that
we
actually
switched
over.
I
So
there's
a
period
of
time
for
2018
where
that
contract
is
included.
There
were
also
a
number
of
of
salaries,
and
you
probably
have
noticed
as
well
in
2017
an
increase
in
terms
of
salaries
for
administration.
So
those
are
some
of
the
areas
where
we
anticipate
for
2018.
We
will
see
an
ongoing
deficit.
Yes,.
J
J
So
I
guess.
My
question
is:
if
we
make
these
Corrections
and
if
we
changed
some
of
the
practices
that
led
to
the
problems
that
are
cited,
that
we
just
discussed
here
or
just
you
just
indicated,
would
the
then
would
the
corporation
be
viable
because
I
know
this
is
time
specific
when
you
made
this
opinion.
So
that's.
N
Do
you
worship,
I,
mean
the
question
of
determining
the
viability
of
any
organization?
Is
it's
a
it's
a
broader
question.
I
mean
you
look
at
the
the
cash
flow
that
the
organization
is
currently
generating.
You
also
look
at
its
potential
sources
of
financing,
perhaps
equity
that
that
it
currently
holds
in
some
are
all
of
its
properties.
J
Thank
you
one
more
question,
and
this
relates
to
page
252
the
deficit
under
finances.
The
last
line
is
the
deficit
for
2008
team
will
now
need
to
be
covered
through
proceeds
from
the
previous
refinancing
of
Elden,
all
which
you
look
through.
It
comes
to
1.6
million
the
question
I
have
the
Commission,
and
maybe
the
answer
can't
be
brought
forward
tonight.
J
I
You
and
mr.
mayor,
so
a
couple
of
things.
My
understanding
is
Eldon.
Hall
is
actually
a
private
building,
meaning
that
it's
not
part
of
the
social
housing
portfolio.
So
to
be
clear
on
that,
and
in
terms
to
my
knowledge-
and
we
actually
had
this
conversation
earlier,
with
wit
mr.
young,
but
in
terms
of
transfer
of
funds,
there
would
be
a
concern
if
we
were
transferring
funds
that
are
supposed
to
be
utilized
for
social
housing
purpose
into
private
housing
building
type
of
fund.
In
this
case
we're
doing
or
we're
proposing
to
potentially
do
the
opposite.
I
So
we
have
not
plugged
any
concerns
with
that
approach.
Actually,
to
my
knowledge,
the
board
of
townhomes
Kingston
was
intending
to
use
this
money
that
we
are
talking
about
from
Alden
Hall
to
finance
seven
right
Crescent.
So
if
it
was
I,
guess
an
legal
issue,
I
guess,
then
that
the
board
of
townhomes
Kingston
would
have
also
been
acting
illegally
by
transferring
those
funds.
But,
like
I
said
to
our
knowledge
and
based
on
our
previous
conversation
with
mr.
K
Who
worship
so
I
guess
I'm
gonna
start
with
where
councillor
Hutchison
just
left
off,
mostly
the
same
same
question
regarding
the
mortgaging
of
Elden
Hall,
the
situation
with
the
deficit,
the
sort
of
apparent
lack
of
capacity
to
do
capital
work
because
of
the
financial
situation.
All
of
these
factors?
K
How
do
they,
if
we
put
that
into
the
broader
context
of
the
not
necessarily
the
viability
of
the
organization
but
the
potential
to
have
an
increased
supply
of
affordable
housing,
the
city
of
kingston?
Can
you
can
you
give
us
any
reassuring
words
on
what
this
this
situation
means
for
the
bigger
question
of
affordable
housing?
Here.
I
And
through
mr.
riah,
a
difficult
question
to
answer
in
terms
of
the
future
of
affordable
housing
when
looking
at
one
organization,
so
I
would
start
by
saying
that
affordable
housing-
it's
is
much
broader
than
townhomes
Kingston,
recognizing
that
they
have
been.
You
know
a
contributor
to
affordable
housing
in
the
community.
I
Obviously
not
all
affordable
housing
units
reside
with
this
particular
organization,
I.
Think,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
our
main
concern
is
to
make
sure
that
we
do
protect
the
current,
affordable
housing
that
we
do
have
with
townhomes
Kingston
and
whether
that's
by
stabilizing
the
organization
or
in
the
future,
by
decision
of
potentially
merging
with
Kingston
Frontenac
Housing
Corporation.
I
The
intent
is
to
ensure
that
we
can
maintain
what
currently
exists
and
and
maintain
a
well
which,
as
we
know,
there
have
been
a
number
of
situations
where
capital
works
we
know
has
been
outstanding
and
we're
trying
to
catch
up
to
some
of
that.
Maintenance
I
think
that's
the
key
to
make
sure
that
we
have
quality
affordable
how
and
to
make
sure
that
we
have
organizations
that
are
capable
in
the
future
of
adding
more
affordable
housing.
And
that's
really
the
work
that
we're
trying
to
do
now
in
terms
of
stabilizing
and
putting
together
the
foundation.
K
Thank
you,
okay,
so
now,
I'm
gonna
take
another
big
step
back
and
just
again
looking
at
the
context
just
for
clarification.
Now
that
that
we
have
an
information
report
on
a
project
and
difficulty
which
I'm
just
gonna
spell
it
out.
If
I'm
incorrect,
please
let
me
know
which
means
based
on
the
fact
that
we
have
the
project
in
difficulty.
We
had
the
triggering
event.
K
We
are
now
in
a
situation
where
the
service
manager,
which
means
community
and
social
services
within
the
city
of
kingston,
act
as
both
board
and
operations
manager
with
the
CEO
in
place
from
the
city
of
kingston
as
well.
If
you
could
just
speak
to
the
structure
as
we
move
forward,
that
would
be
really
helpful
hurdle.
A
I
Through
you,
mr.
mayor,
so
we
counselor
that
in
this
summer
we
declared
townhomes
Kingston
as
a
project
under
difficulty,
which,
at
that
time
would
that
meant
it
was
a
service
manager
which
means
city
staff
and,
more
specifically,
housing.
Social
services
become
responsible
for
this
particular
organization
and
also
is
essentially,
it
has
the
same
authority
as
the
board
of
director
would
otherwise
have
so
decisions
around
contracts.
That
typically,
would
have
been
approved
by
the
board.
Now
as
a
service
manager,
we
have
that
authority
same
thing
with
financial
statements.
I
H
N
Basically
what
what
we
do
for
accounting
purposes
is
we
set
the
the
asset
up
on
the
balance
sheet,
also
set
up
a
liability
of
equal
amount
and
then,
as
time
goes
by
each
dollar
that
you
pay
towards
that
lease
arrangement
gets
split
between
a
principal
component
and
an
interest
component
based
on
the
the
interest
rate.
That's
inherent
in
that
lease.
So
when,
when
each
dollar
gets
paid,
a
portion
of
the
dollar
gets
recorded
against
the
liability
on
the
balance
sheet
and
a
portion
of
that
dollar
gets
expensed
through
the
statement
of
operations.
N
H
N
C
N
H
Thank
you
and
I
know
it's
confusion
on
the
balance
sheet
and
just
to
Commissioner
hurdle
every
three
months.
I
presume
what
the
council
is
going
to
hear
is
what
things
are
becoming
are
being
put
in
place
to
turn
townhomes
around,
like
that
there
will
be
specific
explanations
of
how
this
is
going
to
be
turned
into
a
profit-making
corporation
again,
commissioner,.
I
You
and
to
mayor's
so
councilor
shells
question.
Yes,
that
is
correct.
We
will
be
updating
Council
on
the
different
initiatives
that
were
undertaking
to
try
to
stabilize
or
improve
the
operations.
So,
for
example,
we
have
a
section
on
Health
and
Safety
in
this
report,
because
that
was
a
significant
concern.
When
we
first
got
involved,
maintenance
was
another
one
that
I'm
sure
you're
still
hearing
about,
but
hopefully
a
little
bit
less
with
time
and
the
finances
and
other
that
we
have
obviously
started
to
focus
on.
I
A
I
Its
answer
your
question,
mr.
mayor,
no,
we
did
not
anything.
That's
report
ported
in
these
audited
financial
statements
where
decisions
were
based
on
decisions
made
by
the
townhomes
Kingston
board
and/or
staff.
At
that
time
during
that
year,
it
is
only
in
July
2018
that
city
staff
got
involved
in
terms
of
the
operations
and
decision
making.
A
Okay,
seeing
no
other
questions,
we
will
continue
on
there.
No
information
reports
from
members
of
council
miscellaneous
business
number
one
that
the
resignation
of
Hayley
Smith
from
Harrods
Kingston
be
received.
With
regret,
can
I
have
a
mover,
please
moved
by
Councillor
sanic
seconded
by
councillor
Stroud.
A
A
And
that
carries
number
two,
that
notwithstanding
section
three
point,
one
point:
4
subsection:
five
of
the
illumination
of
city
facilities
policy,
Kingston
City
Council
approved
the
elimination
of
City
Hall
and
Springer
Market
Square
in
blue
on
November
20th
2018
for
transgender
Day
of
Remembrance
could
have
a
mover.
Please
moved
by
councillor
Neill
seconded
by
councillor,
shell.
A
And
that
carries
number
three
that
is
requested
by
Kate
Lucia
Purdy
and
Vanessa
Martin
Kingston
Holiday
Market
Council
designate
the
Kingston
Holiday
Market
being
held
for
eight
weekends,
commencing
on
November,
2nd
2018
and
ending
on
December
22nd
2018
at
168,
Wellington,
Street
Kingston.
As
an
event
of
municipal
significance,
to
which
special
occasion
permits
may
be
issued
by
the
alcohol
and
Gaming
Commission
of
Ontario
moved
by
councillor
George
seconded
by
Michelle.
G
G
The
the
wording
itself
was
suggested
as
a
solution
to
two
problem
that
I
had
brought
to
staff
attention
because
of
events
at
City
Park
that
was
very
congested
this
year
and
some
of
the
events
with
more
than
2,000
users.
The
part
you
can
just
imagine
the
parking
issues
that
come
with
with
vents
that
kind
of
have
outgrown
their
their
venue,
for
example,
baguette
street
several
times
this
summer
in
the
in
the
no
parking
side.
G
So
one
side
of
baguette
has
no
parking
that
entire
side
was
filled
with
parked
cars,
which
was
slowing
down
the
buses,
because
it's
an
Express
route,
there's
just
one
example
of
one
of
the
issues
that
I
noticed
as
the
district
councillor.
It's
just
sort
of
an
accumulation
of
it's
a
good
problem
to
have
right.
Now
too
many
too
many
successful
events
in
one
place,
but
there
is
a
solution
and
the
solution
is
a.
We
have
policy
that
when
people
come
forward
and
asking
for
space,
we
say
just
like
we
do
with
arenas.
G
For
example,
when
there's
a
hockey
tournament,
we
say
what
these
arenas
that
are
available
or
if
it's
a
soccer
tournament.
These
are
the
fields
that
are
available
that
are
for
rental,
and
this
is
the
fee.
So
we
could
do
that
with
the
parks.
That's
just
one
possibility
that
could
come
out
of
this
I
mean
I'm,
saying
that's
going
to
be
the
result,
but
it's
gonna
come
to
the
committee
and
and
I'm
hoping
that
we
would
have
a
policy
that
would
result
in
more
different
neighborhoods
and
different
neighborhood
parks.
G
G
For
me,
it's
a
problem
with
too
much
congestion,
but
for
other
councillors
and
other
districts
it
might
be
a
problem
with
not
enough
so
I
think
that
the
win-win
is
that
we
review
the
policy
and
and
come
up
with
something
that
actually
distributes
it
better
and
and
also
is
what
clearer
for
the
people
that
apply
so
that
we
can
continue
to
host
all
of
these
events
in
and
have
even
more
grow
without
it
being
more
of
a
problem
that
it
already
is.
So
that's
I
ask
for
your
support.
Thank
you.
Thank.
H
Think
Edison
City
Park
is
very
popular
and
I
can
already
hear
some
of
the
groups
that
that
rent
it
getting
very
frightened
at
this
because
it
is,
it
is
the
Central
Park
in
the
city
of
Kingston
and
Lake
Ontario
Park
is
really
really
busy.
So
what
I
would
like
to
ask
staff
is?
Would
you
consider
that,
as
part
of
the
Mandate
of
this
motion
that
Tourism
Kingston
would
be
consulted
as
well.
I
A
And
that
carries
new
motion
number
two,
as
it
appears
in
the
edits
moved
by
councillor
Neill
seconded
by
Councillor
Holland,
whereas
residents
have
periodically
complained
about
other
property
owners,
plowing
or
blowing
snow
onto
their
neighboring
property
or
similar
raking
or
blowing
leaves
under
their
property
without
permission
and
whereas
a
bylaw
addressing
such
are
not
currently
allowable
under
the
Ontario
Municipal
Act
and
whereas
other
municipalities
have
developed
as
best
practice
good
neighbour
guidelines
to
share
with
residents
in
order
to
address
such
concerns
and
to
encourage
more
neighborly.
Cooperation
therefore
be
resolved.
A
That
staff
be
directed
to
review
as
best
practice,
other
municipalities,
guidelines
and
practices,
and
break
forward
information
and
recommendations
on
good
neighbor
guidelines.
As
referenced
above
for
consideration
by
the
administrative
policies
committee
in
q2
2019
councillor
Neill,
you
have
the
floor.
Thank.
M
You
yeah
that
this
came
out
of
knocking
on
5,000
doors
and
having
three
or
four
people
complain
about
this,
as
as
an
issue
and
in
speaking
with
my
seconder
I,
learned
that
over
the
last
couple
of
years
as
I
had
similar
complaints
from
constituents,
she
did
as
well.
So
this
was
an
attempt
for
us
to
address
the
issue
and
I
was
in
contact
with
with
our
property
standards,
bylaw
director
and
she
shared
with
me
a
best
practices
document
from
Calgary.
M
M
Which
is
frustrating
some
constituents
when
I
explained
that
to
them
and
pointed
out?
Well
the
city
if
I
were
to
blow
snow
onto
the
sidewalk
or
the
road
I'd
be
in
cut
I'd,
be
in
conflict
with
a
city
by
law,
from
private
property
to
public
property.
But
the
reverse
isn't
the
case,
and
that
seems
to
be
the
case
everywhere
from
where
I
phoned
around
to
learn
about
best
practices.
M
What
this
is
attempting
to
do
is
to
address
the
problem
as
best
we
can,
because
we
don't
have
under
the
Municipal
Act
the
power
to
enact
a
bylaw,
but
it
would
be
a
best-practice
process
that
we
could
follow.
That
would
allow
us
at
least
to
try
to
address
the
problem
through
negotiating
best
practice
with
a
neighbor
and
so
I'm
hopeful
that
this
this
will
pass.
M
I've
had
several
people
comment
on
on
social
media,
about
how
this
is
a
problem
that
they've
been
faced
with,
so
I
hope
that
this
motion
passes
and
it
gives
staff
an
opportunity
and
administrative
policies
committee
and
opportunity
in
the
q2
of
the
next
council
to
be
able
to
address
this
issue.
Thank
you.
P
Year,
worship
and
through
you
on
this
one,
so
I've
also
heard
lots
of
comments
from
social
media,
and
it
was
why
is
counsel
discussing
how
leaves
and
snow
is
placed
on
people's
yards
and
all
that
and
there's
a
3,500
person
Facebook
group
over
in
the
East
End,
and
it
was
kind
of
trending
this
whole
issue,
and
it
was
basically
one
of
those
things
where
at
what
point
do
you
stop
creating
guidelines?
I
mean
we're.
P
Putting
that
out
there
we
can
make
this
guideline.
It
could
be
the
best
guideline
in
the
world,
but
if
somebody's
not
following
it
today
and
we
hand
them
the
paper
and
they
read
it,
are
they
gonna
follow
it
tomorrow?
Is
that
issue
still
gonna
persist,
so
I
mean
we
can
spend
a
lot
of
time
trying
to
make
people
good
neighbors,
but
I
don't
think
that
creating
those
guidelines
is
necessarily
gonna
make
somebody
be
a
good
neighbor,
I
think
talking
to
your
neighbors
growing
your
community
mutual
respecting
them.
P
If
I
have
an
issue
with
my
neighbor
I
would
rather
I
think,
go
deal
with
it
person
to
person,
and-
and
maybe
we
agree
to
disagree,
but
at
the
same
time
the
city
puts
out
a
guideline.
I'm
likely
gonna
continue.
My
behavior
and
they're
likely
gonna
continue
theirs.
So
I,
respect
where
this
is
coming
from
I
will
support
it,
but
I
think
it's
important
to
have
that
conversation.
This
seems
pretty
simple
at
first
until
you
actually
look
at
it
a
little
bit
more.
P
Maybe
it's
because
I
grew
up
in
the
country
where,
when
you
had
an
issue,
you
didn't
go
to
a
politician,
all
the
time
or
you
didn't
go
to
a
government
or
City
Hall.
You
actually
went
and
tried
to
address
it
and
I'm,
not
dismissing
that.
Maybe
these
people
have
but
at
the
same
time,
I'm
not
sure,
even
if
this
guideline
comes
out,
that
it's
gonna
solve
these
problems,
they're
gonna
persist.
P
The
other
thing
that
was
trending
on
the
social
media
on
that
group
was
the
fact
of
how
are
you
gonna
know
whether
the
snow
came
from
this
person's
property
or
that
person's
property
who
blew
it
on
your
driveway
short
of
actually
witnessing
them
doing
it?
How
are
you
gonna
know
where
leaves
came
from
so
I
mean,
even
if
we
could
create
a
bylaw?
How
would
you
enforce
that?
P
If
you're,
if
you
create
the
bylaw,
you
have
to
create
enforcement
to
go
with
it,
where
it's
just
another
set
of
rules,
so
I
just
wanted
to
kind
of
point
out
all
those
things
as
to
me:
growing.
A
community
has
have
people
being
empowered
and
and
solving
their
problems
at
the
lowest
level
possible,
so
creating
a
guideline
that
tells
people
how
to
be
a
good,
neighbors,
mutual
respect,
common
sense,
common
courtesy,
that's
how
you
be
a
good,
neighbor
and
I
think
that
most
people
in
the
city
believe
in
that
and
act
that
way
every
day.
P
K
Essentially,
why
is
the
city?
Why
would
the
city
want
to
get
involved?
The
we
have
at
the
city,
level
and
other
levels
of
government
have
certainly
been
encouraging
seniors
to
remain
in
their
homes
as
long
as
possible,
and
there
are
quite
a
number
of
seniors
that
I
have
encountered,
who
one
of
the
main
challenges
associated
with
staying
in
their
own
home
is
the
fact
that
they
need
to
get
someone
to
come
and
clear
the
snow
and
make
sure
that
their
walkways
are
clear
of
snow
and
ice.
K
And,
of
course
you
know
the
snow
was
coming
from
Mother
Nature.
This
is
not
intended
to
say
that
anyone
is
to
blame
for
the
fact
that
there
is
snow,
but
it
is
meant,
as
councillor
Neill
has
pointed
out,
to
provide
guidelines.
So,
for
example-
and
this
has
happened,
if
someone
calls
the
city
and
says
I'm,
a
senior
I've
tried
to
have
snow
removed
from
my
property
and
keep
it
safe.
There
is
now
snow
and
ice
that
has
been
put
in
my
lane.
K
K
You
can
do,
and
I
think
what
this
is
meant,
but
this
proposal
is
is
working
towards
is
to
have
some
involvement
for
the
city
in
cases
where,
at
the
very
least,
this
process
of
sorting
out
who
is
responsible
for
removing
that
in
that
case,
that
that
can
be
to
some
extent
facilitated
by
guidelines
based
on
what
we
know
of
what
happens
in
other
jurisdictions
and
what
might
be
relevant
here
so
I
think
it
could
be
useful
and
therefore
I
would
ask
Council
to
support
it.
Thank
you.
Thank.
Q
You
Mary
Patterson
I
was
thinking
that
maybe
we
shouldn't
go
there
as
well
as
councillor
Boehm
mentioned,
and
you
know
I've
thought
about
it
a
lot,
because
there
are
issues
that
that
there
there
seems
to
be
some
frustration
in
in
certain
areas
and
I've
experienced
it
too.
Within
my
district,
so
I
mean
you
could
widen
the
scope
of
that.
Q
You
know
we
have
drainage
issues,
impacted
by
other
properties
and
and
there's
some
amount
of
utility
out
there
of
throwing
up
their
hands
and-
and
maybe
we
can
do
a
little
bit
better
I,
it's
difficult
to
go
there
but
I'm
looking
at
it
saying
good
neighbor
guidelines,
and-
and
maybe
we
can
do
that
as
giving
some
people-
some
hope
that
you
know
and
and
sharing
that
I
do
believe.
I
agree
with
councilor.
Q
Well,
you
know
we
do
want
to
encourage
communication
between
neighbors
and
and
and
and
and
goodwill
and-
and
maybe
this
can
be
an
impetus
for
that.
So
I
guess
I
will
support
it
now
and
and
and
and
give
people
the
ideas
for
good
practice
and
being
good
neighbors.
So
I
think
it
can
be
a
positive
thing.
Q
G
You
I'd
like
to
hear
from
what
exactly
we
are
deciding
on
so
good
neighbor
guidelines.
I
mean
there's
no
report
to
accompany
this
motion.
Does
someone
on
staff
could
someone
let
staff
interpret
what
that
means
from
a
legal
standpoint
related
to
as
opposed
to
a
bylaw
like
what
does
good
neighbor
guidelines
mean
in
practice.
I
Mr.
mee,
you
are
correct
there.
There
is
no
report
because
it's
a
motion
coming
from
Council
asking
staff
to
work
on
this
and
not
a
staff
report
with
a
recommendation
coming
forward.
So
the
the
guidelines
are
essentially
things
that
we
would.
You
know,
suggest
that
people
can
do
to
be
good
neighbors.
I
It's
not
they're,
not
enforceable,
so
that
would
be
the
difference
between
a
bylaw
and
guidelines
are
more
suggestions
and
the
bylaw
would
be
something
that
would
be
enforceable.
But
in
this
case,
as
councillor
Neill
pointed
out,
there's
the
issue
of
you
know
enforceable
from
a
a
property
owner
to
a
property
owner
that
is
not
somewhere
where
we
have
a
jurisdiction
as
a
municipality.
I
G
You,
okay,
so
to
use
an
analogy,
then,
with
that
clarification
in
mind,
for
example,
on
the
on
the
utilities
Kingston
website
about
rain
water,
for
example,
there
are
suggestions
on
how
to
collect
rainwater
on
deciding
whether
or
not
to
water.
Your
tree
in
front
of
your
property.
There's
suggestions
on
how
to
measure
rainfall
using
a
tune
again.
G
Things
like
that
that
are
not
to
do
with
nothing
to
do
with
bylaws
or
do
exist
on
the
city
web
sites
and
are
I
would
say,
value-added
things
that
the
city,
its
guidance
guidelines
for
guidance
that
the
city
can
provide.
There's
probably
many
more
examples,
I'm
glad
that
that
distinction
has
been
clarified,
because
without
that
distinction,
I
fully
agree
with
councillor
bomb
that
we,
knowing
that
we
can't
regulate
behavior
between
neighbors
private
citizens.
It's
it's
a
fool's
errand
to
go
there
to
try
to
regulate
behavior.
G
Lived
there,
so
I
don't
go
there
or
when
I
do
I
regret
it.
So
so
I
would
say
that
a
bylaw
would
be
a
mistake
and
I
would
agree
with
all
those
comments
from
that.
Facebook
page
were
probably
bang
on
if
it
was
a
bylaw
we
were
talking
about,
but
we're
talking
about
guidelines,
helpful
suggestions,
in
other
words
and
I,
think
that's
how
you
added
and
and
because
that's
been
clarified,
I
was
initially
thinking
that
I
didn't
like
this
cancer,
it's
over
regulated
but
I'm
going
to
support
the
motion.
Thank
you.
R
Thank
you.
Your
worship
who
would
have
thought
second
last
meeting
for
some
of
us,
we'd,
be
debating
snowing,
leaves
what
a
strange
world
anyways
I
I
don't
want
to
support
this.
You
know,
I,
don't
think
it's
the
city's
role
to
be
getting
into
the
midst
of
potential
civil
action.
If
there's
going
to
be
something
because
then
it's
a
matter
of
well,
the
city
said
this.
The
city
said
that
and
I
to
me:
that's
not
our
role.
R
I
agreed
with
what
councillor
Stroud
was
alluding
to
and
the
fact
that
there
are
already
some
comments
on
the
website
in
regards
to
how
to
handle
your
water
runoff.
That
type
of
thing
it
might
be
a
simple
action
of
putting
something
on
our
website
that
says,
respect
your
neighbor
use
your
own
snow
storage
area
and
you
know
deal
with
your
leaves
bag
them
prior
to
pickup
time
and
that
sort
of
thing,
but
I
just
don't
see.
R
You
know
the
fact
that,
even
if
we
come
up
with
a
good
neighbor
policy,
if
you
want
to
call
it
that
or
a
practice,
I
don't
know
that
we
have
to
go
into
a
big
big,
big
issue
or
big,
spend
a
lot
of
time
having
staff
review
and
come
back
with
suggestions
and
debated
at
the
administration
policies
committee
and
that
sort
of
thing
in
the
future
I
think
it's
pretty
sad
and
I.
Don't
know
how
you'd
ever
police
it.
R
Where
are
we
going
to
get
the
staff
to
do
and
we
can't
we
don't
have
enough
staff
to
get
out
and
deal
with
the
bylaw
situations
that
we
currently
have
if
anybody
has
phoned
by
law
and
asked
them
to
deal
with
garbage
in
the
parks
or
deal
with
illegal
parking
or
whatever
else
is
going
on,
which
I
have
a
lot
in
my
end,
to
try
and
get
staff
out
there?
It's
it's
pretty
difficult
to
do
usually
two
three
four
days
before
somebody
can
attend
and
deal
with
it.
R
Well,
by
that
time
the
snow
could
have
melted,
the
leaves
have
blown
way.
I
just
don't
see
the
point.
I
think
this
is,
you
know
something
that
we
don't
need
to
get
into
so
first
thing:
I'm
not
going
to
support
this
I
I
think
it's
it's
ridiculous
and
not
something
municipality
should
be
involved
in
at
all.
That's
my
point
of
view.
J
But
with
some
experiencing
with
these
sorts
of
things,
myself,
I
would
say
that
in
many
of
these
smaller
situations,
most
people
are
pretty
accommodating.
They
try
to
go
along
with
their
neighbor,
but
frankly,
life
is
just
easier
that
way
and
then
there's
those
who
are
just
not
heating
they're,
not
listening.
J
You
can't
do
anything
with
them,
and
but
there
aren't,
there
is
a
small,
marginal
number
of
maybe
15
or
20
percent,
or
if
you
said
you
know
there
are
guidelines,
maybe
you
should
have
a
look
at
them
or
when
they
phone
in
hopefully
you're
not
sending
this
councillor.
George
is
probably
saying
we're
not
sending
anybody
out
to
adjudicate
this.
You
can
say
well,
this
is
what
it
says.
You
might
consider
that
and
then
you
get
to
move
that
marginal
number
of
people,
maybe
to
the
more
reasonable
side
of
the
issue.
That's
all
in
my
mind.
J
All
you
can
expect
and
I
have
a
feeling.
That's
all
the
mover
and
seconder
are
looking
for.
We
tried
you
weren't
listening
or
you
won't
read
the
guys.
Who
knows
what
will
happen?
So
that's
a
vote
for
because
I
think
there's
not
a
lot
of
staff,
we'll
just
go
and
get
one
of
these
policies
and
bring
it
back
and
say
what
do
you
think
so,
not
a
lot
of
work,
your
expense
involved
and
I
think
we
all
know
if
we
have
any
experience
all
his
counselors.
You
know
that
some
of
these
things
are
intractable.
J
J
S
Okay,
you
I
have
to
get
my
two
cents.
I
agree.
We
should
all
be
good,
neighbors
and
I.
Think
that's
an
important
premise
in
this
motion
and
I
think
that
we
should
all
treat
each
other
kindly
but
I
hope
we
don't
spend
a
lot
of
money
on
this
I
hope
it's
a
policy
that
we
just
can
write
up
quickly
and
easily
and
that
we
don't
have
by
law
enforcement,
because
I
think
that
would
cost
a
lot
of
money
to
try
or
even
consider
that
so
I
will
support
this.
O
You,
your
worship,
I'm,
going
to
support
this,
because
I'm
always
interested
to
see
how
other
municipalities
deal
with
the
same
things
that
we
get
thrown
at
us
and
more
of
the
more
information
the
better
it
makes
our
city
to
so
I
support
it
just
where
the
research
of
seeing
how
other
cities
are
dealing
with
it.
Thanks
thank.
M
M
M
So
would
would
this
address
that
issue,
possibly
not,
but
I,
think
I
think
we
need
to
at
least
try
to
and
other
communities
have
best
practices.
There's
a
copy
I
should
have
made
copies
and
handed
it
out
that
Calgary
has
done
that
property
standards
shared
with
me.
So
there
are
best
practices
that
I
think
are
good.
M
Neighbor
approach
to
this
problem
and
all
that
this
motion
asks
for
isn't
too
involved
by
law
enforcement,
it's
to
to
review
best
practice
documents
elsewhere
and
for
one
to
be
drafted
for
Kingston
that
we
could
share
as
counselors
when
we're
working
it
in
our
with
our
constituents
or
people
could
pick
up
at
the
city
and
drop
in
somebody's
mailbox.
There
are
opportunities,
I
think,
to
address
what
is
a
real
problem,
so
so
I
hope
this
passes
with
or
without
mr.
George's
vote.
Thank
you
thank.