►
Description
Architects are tasked with seeing that organizations meet their objectives with speed and quality, for a reasonable cost. This simple mission is anything but simple. Security, analytics, and everything in-between present themselves as forces to be acknowledged and considered. Building APIs and Microservices present new puzzles to be solved for architects. Or do they?
In this session, we attempt to detect patterns that present themselves in organizations, which have their root in human elements. Yet reliably manifest in technology.
Speaker: Ahmed Koshok, Solutions Engineer at Kong
A
Thank
you
taryn
and
everybody.
Thank
you
for
joining
this.
I
know
it's.
A
tech
talk,
get
ready
for
something
slightly
unconventional.
A
One
of
the
the
funnest
thing
you
can
do
is
have
a
conversation
with
a
lot
of
people.
You
know
share
their
input,
so
I
encourage
that,
if,
if
I
say
something
or
you
see
something
that
you
say,
hey
wait
a
minute.
This
makes
sense,
or
I
I've
seen
something
very
similar.
Please
I'd
love
to
hear
what
you
have
in
mind.
A
So
if
you
came
here
just
for
technology,
yes,
we
will
talk
some
technology,
I'm
sorry
to
this
point.
This
is
what
I
do
every
day.
By
the
way,
just
right
now
is
helping
somebody
solve
a
tls
problem,
so
I
can
get
as
deep
as
you
like,
but
then
I
I
do
find
these
conversations
very
interesting
and
a
lot
of
technologists
that
I've
been
speaking
with
over
the
past
two
weeks
in
preparation.
For
this
talk
said
man.
This
was
really
nice
talk
we
had
so
yeah.
A
Please
don't
be
shy,
guys,
it's
not
a
lecture,
so
please
participate.
The
slides
will
be
a
guide.
So
please
make
this
a
happy
hour.
I
will
take
notes.
I
will
share
my
slides
afterwards,
there's
plenty
of
references
that
I
will
cite
and
yeah.
Let's,
let's
have
some
fun,
shall
we?
A
So
if
you
know
you
can't
make
it
through
the
entire
talk
for
some
reason
or
you
just
want
to
know
the
bottom
line
up
front,
which
is
what
that
bluff
is.
The
answer
to
the
question
is
what
can
microservices
tell
us
about
organizations?
The
answer
is
mostly
things
we
should
know
and
those
things
I'll
cover
some
of
them,
based
on
the
experience
that
I've
seen
and
maybe
some
new
things
so-
and
this
is
the
part
where
I
welcome.
A
You
know
your
feedback,
welcome
your
observations,
the
the
inspiration
for
this
or
you
know
the
reason
I,
like
those
talks.
Very
much
is
when
I
first
started
working.
I
was
working
for
a
company
doing
software
development.
I
was
doing
quality
assurance
at
the
time
and
I
really
wanted
to
do
software
development,
even
though
I
had
a
degree
in
computer
science.
You
know
your
first
job
out
of
college
they're
not
going
to
let
you
write
codes,
although
maybe
they
will
so.
A
I
bought
this
book
uml
in
a
nutshell,
and
I
was
surprised
that
initially
the
book
was
not
talking
about
at
all.
You
know
developing
software
as
much
as
talking
about
process
and
tasks
and
organizations,
and
it
gave
me
this
big
huge
moment
of
clarity
into
this
whole
idea
of
developing
software.
So
it
was
not
a
technical
issue
at
all,
so
that
was
one
experience
that
I
had
that
that
made
me
open
up
to
this
also
known
as
wow.
You
know
mind
blown
wow,
I
didn't
think
of
it
that
way.
A
So
maybe
this
is
a
point
of
question
for
you
guys.
For
me
it
was
just
realizing.
You
know
the
way
that
which
organizations
work.
Anyone
can
share
any
moment
of
clarity
when
they
said,
oh,
wait,
a
minute.
You
know
I
was
working
for
the
the
the
government
and
profit
was
not
an
issue,
and
now
all
of
a
sudden,
I'm
working
for
a
private
sector
wait
a
minute.
You
mean
we.
Actually
you
know
we
we
have
to
do
this
profitably.
I
see
a
thumbs
up.
A
Fine,
so
yeah
moments
of
clarity
are
really
nice
and
another
one
happened
from
this
gentleman.
This
is
dave
thomas.
A
If
you
lived
in
the
midwest,
as
I
did
around
the
two,
you
know
the
odds
as
they
say:
no
fluff,
just
tough.
Actually,
they
still
operate
today.
Really
nice
conferences,
very
good
material
and
topics
that
they
cover
dave
thomas,
had
two
talks
that
legitimately
affected
me
in
my
career.
A
Here
he
was
the
first
one
developing
expertise
and
he
drew
a
parallel
between
how
in
the
healthcare
industry
they
had
some
serious
issues
with
errors,
and-
and
you
know
this
is
people's
lives
on
the
line,
so
they
started
interviewing
doctors
and
nurses
and
they
came
up
with
very
similar
observations.
A
Very
similar
comments
to
how
architects
and
business
users
and
quality
assurance
folks
use
this
talk
and
and
dave
thomas
of
course,
was
leading
the
charge
or
part
of
many
people
leading
the
charge
towards
being
agile
and
doing
things
in
a
different
way,
and
not
only
was
his
talk
about
this,
it
was
also
about
how
do
you
build
expertise,
and
how
do
you
become
good
at
what
you
do
over
time
and
whose
responsibility
was
that?
So
what
I
got
out
of
this
talk
is
it's
my
responsibility.
A
It's
not
your
manager's
responsibility
to
get
you
good.
Maybe
that's
a
question
for
for
you
sean.
You
know
you.
You
naturally
work
in
an
environment
which
is
okay,
it's
commercial,
it
is
high
stress.
Sometimes
you
get
a
good
coach,
but
not
always,
what's
you
know?
What's
your
take
who's
whose
responsibility
is
it
to
get
goods?
Do
you
agree
that
it's
100
yours
and
no
one
else's.
B
Well,
I
I
would
like
to
say
that
that's
the
case
most
of
the
time
right,
I
think
we're
all.
We
have
all
have
some
accountability
and
responsibility
for
becoming
better,
but
it's,
I
think
it's
important
in
all
of
our
careers
to
find
a
mentor
and
somebody
who's
willing
to
invest
in
our
success
just
as
much
as
you
know
we're
vested
in
it.
So
it's
it's
it's
always.
I
think
you
become
a
lot
more
successful
throughout
your
career.
B
Exactly
right
so.
A
I
would
say:
that's
a
minority
of
the
time,
not
all
the
time
that
that
happens.
That's
strange,
I
put
my
phone
on
silent
and
yet
I
still
I
hear
notifications
so
yeah
the
so
for
some
of
the
time
you
will
be
lucky,
you
will
have
the
mentor
most
of
the
time.
You
will
not,
and
dave
thomas
gave
me
this
moment
of
clarity.
You
look
after
your
own
career.
Another
thing
he
said
was
another
topic
or
talk.
A
He
gave
was
about
cargo
cults
and
angry
monkeys
and
the
topic
think
what
in
the
world
does
that
have
to
do
with
technology
and
you'd
have
to
go
watch
it.
So
I
will
have
that
reference
in
the
slides,
very,
very
good
talk
by
dave,
thomas
on
cargo,
cults
and
angry
monkeys.
A
So
let
me
tell
you
about
you
know
the
the
genesis,
not
the
genesis.
What's
leading
up
to
this,
this
talk,
I'm
having
I've
been
working
in
technology
for
20
years.
I
do
have
three
degrees.
One
of
them
doesn't
count,
maybe
because
it's
a
it's
an
mba.
Please
don't
hold
that
against
me,
but
it's
my
curiosity
towards
business
and
and
believe
me
there's
a
lot
of
eye-opening
moments.
A
If
you,
if
you
want
to
study
an
mba
and
get
a
business
degree,
I
would
recommend,
though
you
do
it
on
a
cheap,
as
in
ten
dollars
get
you
know
the
10-day
mba
book
or
something
like
that.
You
know,
you're
not
gonna,
go
spend
forty
eighty
thousand
dollars
for
an
mba
and
to
get
the
connections
I
worked
in
in
north
america
in
europe
in
africa
in
asia,
which
is
you
know,
you
can
say
the
middle
east
lots
of
projects
lots
more
organizations.
I've
met
a
lot
of
people.
A
Fortunately,
I've
had
some
successes
and
and
plenty
of
failures
from
mitch,
from
which
I
learned.
So
that's
my
background
and
my
premise
is
the
following
or
not
the
premise
you
know
yeah
well,
the
premise
of
microservices
is
not
mine.
A
If
you
talk
to
any
organization
right
now-
and
I
see
this
on
a
daily
basis
and
sean-
maybe
you
can
chime
in
here-
oh
we
want
to
go
to
agile.
We
want
to
use
container
containers
we're
going
to
use
kubernetes
we're
going
to
go
to
microservices.
A
This
thing
is
going
to
solve
all
our
problems.
It's
going
to
even
be
a
flamethrower
and
it's
going
to
meet
our
business
needs,
even
if
they
can't
articulate
what
the
needs
are
we're
going
to
do
it
fast
we're
going
to
do
it
without
breaking
the
bank.
It's
going
to
be
secure,
it's
going
to
be
awesome
and
I
say
well
wait
a
minute.
A
Does
this
sound
familiar
sean?
What
do
you
think
man?
You
know
you
you
go
on
on
those
calls
just
like
I
do
you
see
people
saying
we
are
gonna.
We
have
to
buy
juna
this
year.
We're
gonna
have
to
have
everything
on
containers
and
ready
to
go
in
the
cloud
and
hybrid
yeah
sure.
Why
not?
What
do
you
think
sean.
B
Yeah,
I
think
it's
a
great
concept
right.
I
think
the
idea
of
containers
and
an
agile
environment
is
ultimately
going
to
lead
to
a
better
end
user
experience,
but
I
think
what
a
lot
of
people
are
trying
to
understand
is
how
to
manage
the
complexities
that
come
along
with
kind
of
decoupling,
these
applications
and
moving
to
a
hybrid
multi-cloud
type
of
architecture,
and
ultimately
it
does
help
you
innovate
faster,
but
I
think
it
adds
a
lot
of
additional
concerns,
especially
around
the
security
perspective.
B
When
we're
thinking
about
all
these
additional
gaps
and
entry
points
that
you
now
have
in
the
environment.
So
it's
an.
B
I
think
a
lot
of
times
these
you
know
there
needs
to
be
a
good
business
reason
to
do
this,
to
enable
the
technical
folks
to
go
out
and
invest.
You
know
intelligently
in
these
in
these
concepts.
A
100
and
it's
trying
to
solve
a
certain
thing:
it's
trying
to
what
meet
the
business
needs.
You
know,
do
it
on
time.
Do
it
on
budget?
Do
it
secured,
like
you
said
and
like
every
other
technology
it
has,
you
know
it
needs
care
and
feeding.
There'll,
be
a
little
bit
of
challenges
over
here
and
there'll
be
later
benefits
over
here,
but
you'll
notice,
something
having
been
as
long
as
I
have
remember
these
terms:
enterprise,
service
bus.
A
You
know
edi
electronic
data,
interchange
just
getting
data
to
get
passed
around
et
cetera,
et
cetera,
et
cetera
and
watch.
This
guy
bill
will
gates
not
this
guy,
one
of
the
richest
people,
much
smarter
than
me
or
or
anybody
else
wrote
a
book
in
before
you
know
in
the
last
century,
business
at
the
speed
of
thoughts,
hey
we're
gonna,
you
know
we
can
do
things
at
the
time
you
think
it
at
microsoft.
Are
we
gonna
get
it
done?
A
And
even
even
today
we
have
that
every
business
is,
you
know,
trying
to
solve
a
problem
trying
to
do
it
fast.
So
you,
you
kind
of
take
a
step
back.
Here's
one
person
who
made
me
take
that
step
back.
Let
me
see
if
I
see
something
in
the
chat:
oh
from
taren
alrighty,
this
gentleman
asir
veda
motu
selva,
and
I
hope
I
pronounced
that
right.
I've
or
I
worked
with
the
guy,
but
I'm
not
like
a
native
hindi
speaker,
but
you
know
you
have
those
moments
of
clarity.
A
So
one
time
oscar
and
me
were
talking
and
he
says
well,
you
know
just
having
a
new
technology
doesn't
necessarily
solve
the
problem.
Maybe
your
problem
is
elsewhere
and
he
gave
me
this
example.
Think
of
something
as
benign
as
a
calendar.
You
don't
even
think
twice
about
it,
sean
or
taran.
If
I
tell
you
you
know,
what's
today
may
27th
you
don't
even
think
about
it,
but
what
if
I
told
you
that
the
gregorian
calendar,
which
is
the
de
facto
annual
calendar
that
we're
using,
is
just
one
approach
and
it
has
its
own
issues.
A
A
That's
why
the
orthodox
church
has
christmas
in
january
versus
what
we
have
here
in
the
usa,
but
you
know,
do
you
know?
That's
there's
a
lunar
calendar.
There
is
a
a
loonie.
Solar
calendar
is
a
calendar
which
starts
on
the
same
day
every
year
like
an
annual
calendar,
a
pre-annual
calendar,
and
then
they
give
you
a
leap
week
every
once
in
a
while.
Have
you
heard
of
decimal
time?
A
So
what
am
I
getting
at
here?
The
problem
is
not
the
calendar.
What
calendar
you?
The
problem
is
the
perception
of
time
yeah
and
that's
that
that
transcends
all
the
approaches
you
have
to
it
with
me
so
far
sean
did
I
confuse
everybody.
Is
this
making
sense
to
you
to
all
of
you,
because
I'm
about
to
you
know
transpose
this
or
overlay
this
to
microservices
I'll?
Give
you
another
example.
Thank
you
for
the
thumbs
up
guys
I'll.
Give
you
another
example.
A
Think
of
something
as
as
bananas
money
you
don't
even
think
twice
about
it.
Do
you
what
if
I
told
you
that
we're
using
paper,
money
and
paper
money,
fiat
currencies,
have
a
100
failure
rate
over
time?
A
You
know
what.
If
I
shock
you
and
tell
you
the
the
united
states
dollar
lost,
you
know
97
of
its
value
or
something
like
that
boom
moments
of
clarity.
Okay,
so
funny,
let
me
get
some
micro
services,
regardless
technology,
you
use,
you
will
have
to
contend
with
limitations
that
are
not
technological
in
nature.
Problem
is
not
technology.
In
this
case,
I'm
going
to
cover
some
technologies
that
are
human
in
the
slides.
A
I
put
two
articles
from
a
gentleman
from
ibm
kim
clark
who
did
a
nice
summary
of
point-to-point
communication
with
esbs
and
peer-to-peer
networks
in
general,
and
he
did
a
nice
job.
A
Overlaying
the
you
know,
traditional
ways
in
which
we
did
communication
point
to
point
and
from
there
the
promise
of
soa
and
how
esbs
came
about
and
how
gateways
came
about
and,
finally,
how
micro
services
came
about
if
you,
if
you
are
familiar
with
this
topic,
fantastic,
if
not
don't
you
worry
the
limitations
that
I'll
talk
about,
don't
necessarily
have
to
do
so
much
with
microservices.
A
They
really
just
have
to
do
an
information
flow
because
what
are
organizations,
but
basically
a
hierarchy,
and
that,
where
information
flows
with
me
so
far,
everybody
sean
is.
Is
this
at
all?
You
know,
is
it
too
academic
for
you,
my
friend.
A
Yeah
microservices
apis
flowing
information.
You
know
place
disorder
gave
me
that
information.
You
know,
applications
work
as
following
information,
so
get
this.
This
is
dr
jaggers
gruffman.
I
met
him.
Working
in
the
middle
east
he's
a
polish
gentleman.
He
is
a
doctor.
His
his
doctors
is
in
organization
science,
which
I
actually
looked
up
today.
I
just
said
you
know
dr
gregor
jaggers,
but
I
as
I'm
preparing
for
this
meeting,
I
went
out
and
found
out.
He
actually
studied
organizational
science
and
he
worked
for
a
company
called
ibs
shear.
A
They
were
specialists
in
doing
erp
implementations
and
they
got
really
good
at
it.
Their
success
rates
with
erp's,
erps
enterprise,
resource
planning
systems
think
sap
and
oracle
basically
applications.
As
you
know,
today,
very
high,
and
even
today
in
if
you
look
at
the
data
from
2019
enterprise
resource
planning,
there
are
about
2
000
erp
systems.
Out
there
last
I
checked
60
of
the
projects
fail.
A
Most
people
are
not
happy.
Most
of
them
don't
realize
the
gains
from
which
they
implemented
the
software
in
the
first
place
and
they
are
barely
or
you
know
more
often
than
not
not
on
time
and
not
on
budget
jagger's
theory
was
this:
if
you
want
to
know
why
they
fail,
it
is
because
there
is
resistance
when
someone
will
no
longer
have
the
monopoly
of
information.
A
So
if
you
find,
if
you
want
to
find
out
where
this
resistance
will
be
look
no
further
than
whichever
person
or
persons
have
monopoly
information
in
the
organization
and
yep
google
slides
destroyed
my
my
slide,
but
let
me
see
if
I
can
do
something
to
show
it
to
you
anyway.
A
Can
you
guys
see
this?
I
think
you
can
here
we
go
okay,.
A
C
A
Sam
would
you
you
don't
have
to
disclose
too
much
sam
if
he
was
like,
but
if
you're
up
for
it
man,
you
know
this
this.
This
is
a
meet
up,
and
I
I
was
really
hoping
that
some
people
chat.
Are
you
up
to
talking
about
it
for
a
minute
over
video
on
sharing
what
you
saw.
C
A
C
So
yeah
I
mean
from
an
api
consumption
standpoint.
Our
company
expel
is
a
managed
detection
response
company,
so
we're
kind
of
like
a
sock
as
a
service,
and
so
we
come
to
our
customers
with
the
with
the
security
tools
that
they
already
have,
and
so
apis
are
hugely
advantageous
for
us,
because
our
customers
allow
us
to
connect
to
their
vendors
apis
using
their
credentials
to
pull
their
data
and
then
aggregate
it
and
bubble
up
meaningful
alerts.
C
C
We
have
an
api
that
we
expose.
I
would
say
that
it's
probably
fairly
lightly
used
at
this
point,
because
I
don't
think
there's
a
lot
of
integrators
with
us
necessarily,
but
that's
not
to
say
that
there
won't
be
in
the
future,
and
so
we
we
actually
still
invest
pretty
heavily
in
the
time
that
we
put
into
exposing
an
api
documenting
a
well,
you
know
giving
customers
access
if
they
need
it.
Things
like
that,
so
you
know
looking
at
how
apis
have
proliferated.
You
know
not
having
one.
A
100,
here's
a
scenario
I
think
of
man
and
your
actually
business
case
is
quite
compatible
with
apis
because
you're
doing
something
with
customers
and
in
fact
the
moment
you
surface
apis,
you
bring
your
customers
closer.
You
make
it
easier
for
them
to
do
business
with
you,
but
here's
one.
What
if
your
api
will
compete
with
another
part
of
your
business
where
actually
I'm
jumping
ahead
a
little
bit?
You
ever
watch
office
space,
absolutely
remember
when
mike
said
they
were
going
to
do
business
online,
yup
bingo.
A
So
that's
the
situation
where
you're,
basically
having
competing
priorities
in
organization
which
in
this
case
yeah
you
know,
is
using
a
website,
but
it
could
have
well
been
an
api.
Maybe
it's
a
website
and
now
someone
will
open
up
the
mobile
app.
So
now.
Let
me
let
me
go
back.
First
of
all,
thank
you
so
very
much
for
sharing
this.
Then
sam
really
really
useful
stuff.
Let
me
now
go
back
to
sharing
some
stuff
and
then
hopefully
google
will
behave
itself
alrighty.
Can
you
guys
see
my
screen.
A
A
If
you
have
a
situation
where
someone
gets
to
win
and
someone
gets
to
lose
from
an
api
being
exposed
for
a
micro
service
being
exposed
or
for
information
flow,
changing
it's
it's
about
to
go
down,
you
know,
get
get
some
popcorn
you're
gonna
witness
some
some
game
of
thrones
stuff
happening
in
your
organization
now
it
turns
out
like
I
said
this
is
an
entire
field
of
study
and
it
has
some
really
interesting
parts
to
it
to
it
in
the
next
30
minutes
or
next
20
minutes.
A
Let's
try
to
cover
some
of
them,
but
it's
part
culture.
Psychology
part
sociology,
communication,
power
and
politics.
In
other
words,
if
you
talk
to
a
20
year
old
ahmad,
none
of
that
matters
to
me-
and
that
was
a
big
disservice
to
myself,
because
I
came
to
find
out
that
these
things
are
extremely
relevant.
A
A
This
show
is
highly
successful.
Can
anyone
take
a
guess
why
it's
successful
by
the
way
it's
based
on
the
english
version
and
it's
far
more
developed
than
the
english
version?
We
had
more
seasons
in
the
usa
than
we
did
from
the
one
that
gervais
did
in
the
uk.
B
A
I,
what
did
you
like
about
it?
What
was
it
about
the
author?
I
mean
it's
a
comedy:
it's
aaron,
you
watched
it
too.
What
did
you
like
about
it?
It's
relatable,
yes
and
it's
sadly
accurate.
Yes,
yes,
why?
The
answer
to
that
question
comes
in
a
six
series:
blog
post.
I
read
that
changed
the
way
I
look
at
organizations.
A
A
He
says
in
most
organizations,
they're
run
as
a
hierarchy
and
at
the
bottom
are
the
grunts
like
me,
and
you
sean.
You
know
we're
out
there
we're
we're
from
we're
front
line.
My
friend,
you
know
we're
the
ones
that
are
creating
value
and
in
a
in
an
economy
where
you
have
the
opportunity
to
start
your
own
business,
you've
traded
that
opportunity
for
a
steady
paycheck,
which
is
perhaps
no
longer
steady.
It's
purely
based
on
performance
and
the
anxiety
is
there.
A
So
we
are
called
in
that
article
losers
and
then
it
depends
on
by
the
way.
This
is
the
idea
from
the
author.
So
please
again,
I
I
I
can't
stress
this
enough.
Don't
take
it
negatively
if
you
over
perform
as
a
loser,
then
you
get
put
into
middle
management,
and
that
is
michael.
Scott,
michael
scott
is
an
over
performing
loser
who
got
promoted
into
minimal
management,
and
he
is
known
as
the
clueless
and
his
boss,
of
course,
jan
ganguly
she's,
a
psycho
as
most
of
the
execs,
dr
mifflin.
A
A
Guess
who
is
one
of
those
sam,
I'm
looking
at
you
buddy
you're
gonna
know
who
that
guy
was
who
was
a
loser,
and
he
was
fast
tracked
to
the
top
of
the
organization.
A
A
Do
read
the
article
see
if
it
draws
any
parallels
to
what
you're
seeing,
but
it
highlights
the
complexity
of
organizations
and
and
then
patterns
that
emerge
when
you
have
such
a
hierarchy,
and
it's
it's
actually
more
interesting
than
that.
Let's
develop
this
a
little
bit
more.
A
It
turns
out
that
there's
a
language
that
different
people
use
when
they're
talking
to
one
another,
so
sociopaths
they
use
power.
Talk
power.
Talk.
If
I
can.
You
know
very
briefly
summarize
it
it's
stock
that
has
plausible
deniability
that
has
something
at
stake:
yeah,
meaning
that
they're
vague
enough
that
you
can
read
between
the
lines
and
they're
really
really
good
at
this.
Sociopaths
are
really
good
at
this.
It's
it's.
What
tv
shows
are
made
of
the
clueless
are
the
are
the
most
fun
to
watch
because
they
use
posture
talk
to
everybody.
A
The
losers
ignore
them,
or
actually
the
losers,
look
at
them
and
and
say
yeah
yeah,
whatever
laugh
the
the
social
pass,
you
know,
don't
mind
them
because
they're
a
buffer
between
them
and
between
the
the
losers
and
and
yeah.
Of
course,
you
know
we
we
talk
amongst
each
other
in
in
in
game,
talk
sean.
I
hope
I
didn't
bum
you
out
man.
What
do
you
think
of
all
of
this?
Does
any
of
this
make
sense
to
you?
Are
you
gonna
go
read
the
article
at
all
taryn.
B
I
think
you
should
drop
that
link
in
the
in
the
chat,
so
we
can.
A
I
was
gonna,
ask
the
same
thing.
Tell
us
again:
the
name
of
the
article
ribbon
farm
ribbon
farm
the
office
according
to
the
office,
but
don't
read
it
right
now:
it's
a
six
part
series
you
can
get
it
on.
I
think
kindle
unlimited,
it's
free.
I
of
course
bought
it,
but
you
can
read
it
free
on
the
website.
A
So
notice
what's
happening
here
is
that
there
is
an
element
of
self-interest
that
everybody
has
so
the
losers.
You
know
what
you
want
to
do.
A
lot
of
them
are
minimal
efforts.
You
know
I
do
enough
not
to
get
fired.
I
don't
spend
a
lot
of
time
at
work,
someone
bookmarked
it!
Thank
you!
Tara
and
yeah.
The
dress,
there's
a
base
principle,
and
if
you,
if
you
want
to
get
a
little
bit
more
into
learning,
this
idea
of
power
talk
and
and
transactional
transactional
game
games.
A
There's
a
book
by
byrne.
Eric
byrne
games,
people
play,
and
I
think
there
was
even
a
movie
afterwards
that
was
made
about
it,
but
really
fascinating
talk
and
will
open
your
eyes
to
how
organizations
work,
but
here's.
So
that's
one
concept
that
I
generally
came
to
appreciate
in
hierarchy
and
yeah.
It
exists
everywhere,
don't
get
guys
if
you're
already
in
management.
You
probably
already
know
this,
I'm
just
I'm
showing
the
game
to
people
who
don't
know
the
game.
Managers
probably
already
know
this
and
maybe
didn't
articulate
it.
Here's
another
concept.
A
Incentives
incentives
are
huge.
Anyone
read
for
economics,
sean
darren,
sam
anybody
else.
A
If
you
know
my
wife
had
three
children
all
natural
delivery,
it
turns
out
if
we
were
in
a
in
a
city
or
during
a
time
where
the
doctor
doing
the
delivery
is
not
so
busy,
her
chances
of
getting
a
c-section
will
increase
by
15.
A
What
does
that
mean?
Well,
it
means
the
doctor
is
going
to
collect
more
from
insurance.
I
thought
the
doctors
will
make
the
best
decision,
regardless
of
who's
paying
yeah.
So
you
know
stephen
and
and
steve
demonstrated
that
incentives
are
very
powerful
and
and
no
matter
who
you
are,
they
play
a
role
in
what
you
do
and
therefore
in
organizations
that
incentive
is
definitely
there
guess
what
happens
in
organizations.
A
People
are
giving
usually
competing
priorities.
You
increase
revenue,
you
cut
costs,
you
increase
security
and
managers
are
given
limited
resources
and
and,
as
a
result,
you
get
an
organization
this.
This
natural,
you
know
competition
and
and
resistance
that
happens
now.
What
you're
looking
at
on
the
right
hand,
side
is
a
model
for
change
and
notice.
A
Incentives
is
part
of
that
change
and
and
when
you
don't
have,
when
you
don't
have
all
the
ingredients,
if
you
want
to
implement
change,
be
that
implementing
microservices
or
apis
or
doing
any
type
of
projects
you
have
to
have
all
the
ingredients
where
we're
going
to
go.
Do
we
have
the
people
to
make
it
happen?
A
A
Would
you
agree
with
me?
If
I
say
incentives
are,
are
usually
the
ones
that
are
trickiest,
because
that
can
only
mean
there's
politics.
You
know
behind
all
this.
What's
your
take
sean.
B
Yeah
I
mean
incentives
are
the
the
driver
right
of
a
lot
of
the
things
that
that
we're
doing
but
yeah?
I
I
and
I
haven't,
read
freakonomics
yet,
but
I
I
think
you're
you're
spot
on
with
the
direction
you're
headed
here.
A
Yes-
and
there
are
a
lot
of
alignment
efforts
that
happen
so
think
of
enterprise
architecture
generally
as
practice
by
the
way
I
studied
enterprise
architecture
briefly
and
they're,
trying
as
best
as
they
can
to
find
alignment
by
figuring
out
what
the
board
wants,
what
the
executives
wants.
What
are
the
critical
objectives,
how
those
objectives
translate
into
the
projects?
A
How
are
the
all
the
you
know,
performance
on
success
criteria
for
those
projects
aligned
and
then
those
those
trickle
down
to
metrics
and
the
metrics
trickle
down
to
your
systems
and
people
and
projects
and
processes
sounds
lovely?
How
many
of
you
know
you
know
of
a
large
organization?
That's
that's
able
to
to
get
this
to
work
well
for
it,
and-
and
if
so,
why
do
we
have
all
these
catastrophes
happening
in
business?
You
know
why
do
we
have
the
suez
canal
getting
blocked?
Why
do
we
have
coil
pipeline
getting
reached?
A
So
why
do
we
have
any
any
major?
Why
do
we
have
shortages
et
cetera,
I'm
not
suggesting
that
enterprise
architecture
is
the
one
solution
to
all
those
things,
but
failures
happen
in
organizations
regardless?
Fine,
not
all
organizations
implementing
enterprise
architecture,
but
it's
it's
not
a
problem
which
is
easily
solved
I'll.
A
Give
you
an
example
of
that,
I'm
sorry
from
the
military
buff
this
gentleman
over
here
he
was
in
charge
of
about
a
million
person
organization
and
it's
in
the
military,
and
if
you,
if
you
read
his
book
fun
reading,
if
you
like
military
stuff,
he
basically
streamlined
the
organization
says-
and
this
is
back
in
the
70s.
You
know
the
technology
is
not
as
advanced
as
this
today
and
his
idea
was
well.
A
If
I
have
15
layers
in
order
to
get
to
the
information
you
know
by
the
time
it
gets
to
the
top
it's
way
way
too
late.
So
he
really
tried
to
to
streamline
it
now
points
of
fun
over
here.
You
know,
by
the
way,
don't
look
at
him
like
as
a
role
model
in
some
of
the
degrees
is
failure
the
guy
got
exiled.
A
You
could
argue
that
he
worked
for
psycho
or
psychos,
and
you
could
argue
that
you
know
my
own
uncle
knew
the
guy
and
he
says
man
in
his
50s.
He
was
still
exercised
very
energetic.
You
know
clearly
clearly
someone
who
works
very,
very
hard
which
doesn't
make
him
clueless,
but
he
is
operating
within
a
hierarchy
and
that's
the
the
most
common
model
you
see
in
organizations.
A
Yes,
do
you
know
the
the
joke
behind
it?
Sean
version
obvious,
so
I'm
not
gonna
tell
you
the
joke,
but
basically
it
says
those
at
the
top
when
they
look
down
what
do
they
see
and
those
at
the
bottom
when
they
look
up
what
do
they
see?
A
But
organizations
are
trying
to
work
around
this
spotify
try
to
do
something
here.
Have
you
guys
heard
of
the
spotify
model
where
they
have?
You
know,
squads
groups,
chapters
and
guilds?
Anyone
come
across
that
they're.
What
they're
really
trying
to
do
is
they're
they're
trying
to
get
people
to
have
ways
in
which
they
can
communicate
and
get
work
done,
which
a
typical
hierarchy
organization
is
not
able
to
do
which
again
I
I
would
argue
that
hierarchy
is
largely
the
way
in
which
we
do
things
sean
am
I
am
I
off
there.
B
A
A
Most
organizations
yeah
you're,
right
yeah
and
you
know
in
in
government
in
although
we
do
have
you
know
the
the
balance
of
power,
of
course,
but
even
then
most
organizations
have
it
now
there
are
some
attempts
to
change
to
change
this.
Maybe
this
is
what
do
you
want
to
say
here,
tongue-in-cheek,
but
amazon
is
clearly
higher
pro
google
does
a
bit
of
matrix
management.
A
Facebook
is
a
network
and-
and
you
can
go
on
youtube
to
find
out
about
how
people
communicate
and
they're.
Basically,
facebook
uses
facebook
to
communicate
and
it's
a
it's
a
fun
little
environment,
microsoft
with
their
own.
You
know
internal
rifts,
classic
game
of
thrones
and
then
oracle.
That's
spoking!
You
know
poking
fun
at
how
that
organization
you
know,
has
a
legal
and
financial
arm
and
then
the
engineering
arm
and
they're
they're,
the
ones
who
send
you.
A
You
know
invoices
and
and
letters
of
compliance
and
so
forth,
and
then
you've
got
apple
where
you
know
the
ceo
well,
at
the
time
this
was
taken.
I
bet
you
with
steve
jobs
was,
was
very,
would
you
say
a
prominent
there,
but
can
do
you
think
you
can
do
better
guys?
A
Here's
here's,
a
book
that
I
actually
have
charles
hugh
smith,
talks
about
how
there
is
a
tax
that
organizations
levy
or
or
a
maintenance
cost
for
the
organization
and
as
the
organization
scales
and
scales
and
scales
that
cost
increases
to
the
point
it
becomes
less
efficient.
So
maybe
there's
a
point
at
which
some
hierarchy
is
okay,
but
after
that
it's
it
begins
to
decay
and
that
organization.
Remember
that
the
office
triangle
that
we
saw
that
organization
eventually
gets
recycled,
you
know
it
dies.
A
It's
like
a
sears
that
goes
out
of
business
or
it's
like
any
other
company
that
eventually
dies
and
by
the
way
anyone
can
recognize
the
person
on
the
left.
A
That's
mohammed
kazafi
when
he
was
young
he
he
was
in
charge
of
libya
and
he
was
a
totally
crazy,
dude
man.
If
you
go
and
read
about
him
but
part
of
his
craziness,
he
came
up
with
a
model
of
government
where
the
people
are
actually
the
boss,
basically
like
an
inverted
chart
instead
of
the
ceo
at
the
top.
He
is
commanded
by
the
people
and
the
people
command
their
representatives
and
their
representative
command,
the
other
presented
and
so
forth.
I
don't
think
anyone
has
figured
this
out
guys
if
you
think
you
can
do
better.
A
You
know
it's.
It's
really
really.
Tough
chances
are
you're
an
organization
and
it
will
have
the
model
that
we're
working
with
right
now
and
whatever
model
you
ship,
whether
it's
the
previous
example
or
whether
it's
a
hierarchy
organization,
whatever
model
you
have
is
you
know
what
I
came
to
learn
about
is
conway's
law
is
the
product
that
you
will
ship.
I
have
a
really
nice
article
also
in
here,
where
I
forget
the
gentleman's
name,
but
he
said
something
very,
very
cool.
He
says
you
will
ship
your
organizational
structure.
A
The
software
that
you
develop
will
mirror
the
capabilities
that
your
organization
has,
and
if
you
have
a
monolith
organization,
you
will
have
modeled
software.
You
will
be
slow
to
change
if
you
have
teams
and
groups
and
networks,
and
you
basically
break
it
up
in
microservices.
This
is
how
agility
will
be,
and
then
he
made
a
nice
reference
to
bruce
lee.
He
says:
well,
if
that's
the
case,
and
he
needs
to
to
be
mold
and
to
evolve
as
an
organization.
A
Well,
then,
doesn't
it
mean
that
your
organizational
structure
needs
to
be
able
to
also
mold
and
change?
Well
yeah,
but
that's
that's
not
an
easy
thing
to
do
at
all
sean.
Do
you
know
any
organization?
That's
able
to
do
this,
an
organization
which
is
constantly
evolving
and
surviving,
no
matter
what
happens
to
it.
I'm
not
aware
of
anyone.
Can
you
think
of
anyone.
B
A
Yeah
on
a
long
enough
time
horizon,
they
fail.
I
think,
there's
something
that
says
you
know
the
the
top
100
organizations
they
they
recycle.
You
know
70
of
them,
recycle
every
10
years
or
something
like
that,
so
that
that
tells
you
that
there's
an
element
of
evolution,
some
organizations
are
just
getting
slow
bogged
down
and
recycled.
A
The
correlate
to
that
is
that
there
is
in
fact
organizations
that
are
very
big.
Take
a
look
at
these
guys
notice
anything
over
here.
A
A
This
is
actually
part
of
the
issue
with
hierarchies.
Generally
speaking,
dunbar's
number
is,
I
think
it
came
out
in
90s
the
idea
that
you
cannot
maintain
meaningful
relationships
with
more
than
150
people
and
gladwell
wrote
in
tipping
points
about
gore-tex.
You
guys
know
gore-tex,
they
make
fabrics.
You
know
in
my
motorcycle
gear.
They
have
fabrics
which
is
breathable
that
water
resistant
well,
here's
what
gore-tex
does
the
moment
they
set
up
any
facility
or
any
you
know,
building
or
anything
like
that.
A
Once
it
goes
over
that
150
person
limits,
they
split
it
up
and
start
a
new
one
and
they
found
out
that
things
go
a
lot
smoother.
Now
this
limited
is
a
meaningful
collection.
It's
a
it's
a
cognitive
limit
and
even
they've
done
research
people
done
research
on
facebook.
How
many
people
do
you
know
on
facebook?
Sean
thousands
like
me.
Probably
and
the
same
for
linkedin,
yeah.
B
A
Now
the
someone
researched
iran
analysis
on
their
facebook
what'd,
you
call
it
network
and
they
found
out
that
you
know
dumber's
number
applied.
In
fact,
it
was
only
150
people
that
they
work
with.
So
eventually
what
we
end
up
with
is
you
know,
an
organization
with
a
network
effect
where
there
will
be
some
clustering,
but
there's
another
interesting
effect
heard
of
the
death
star
diagrams
guys
seen
this
before.
A
This
is
pretty
famous
so
yep
there
you
go
so
hello
by
the
way.
That's
in
the
uk,
I
think
they're
called
now
free
now
and
there's
you
know
a
twitter
over
there
and
there's
netflix.
Do
you
notice
something
guys?
Here's
one
thing
I
noticed:
do
you
notice
that
some
apis
and
microservices
emerge
as
heavily
used,
so
winners
emerge
in
a
network?
So
if
you
have
an
organization
as
a
network,
guess
what
some
parts
of
your
organizations
are
going
to
do
more,
some
car
parts
are
going
to
be
more
heavily
used.
A
I
bet
you
sam
will
answer
this
hey
sam.
If
you
have
10
apis
out
there,
would
you
agree
that
part
of
the
apis
are
used
far
more
heavily
than
the
others
and
that's
the
core
of
your
business
really.
A
A
In
in
organizations
or
any
any
topic
of
measurement,
one
half
of
the
output
is
done
by
the
square
root
of
the
number
of
people.
So
if
an
organization
of
a
hundred
people,
you
can
argue
that
that
people
do
have
their
revenue
sean
you're
in
sales,
would
you
say
that
ten
ten
percent
of
the
sales
force
generates
fifty
percent
of
the
revenue.
A
There
you
go
yeah,
which
is
basically
the
pareto
principle.
That
means
that
the
other
ten
percent
generate
thirty
percent,
so
you
have
people
at
the
top
absolutely
dominating,
and
everyone
else
is
fighting
for
table
scraps.
A
Guess
what
the
real
estate
market
attrition
rate
is
year
after
year,
because
I'm
a
real
estate
agent
by
the
way
or
I
was
83
amigo,
it's
one
of
the
highest
attrition
rates
of
any
industry,
because
everyone
says
hey,
I'm
gonna
get
in
there
and
I'm
gonna
make
some
money
and-
and
it
turns
out
that
no
a
few
people
are
really
able
to
do
this
true
in
organizations
as
well,
and
it
it
can
be
a
serious
problem.
A
So,
even
if
you
have
organizations
in
the
network,
winners
are
going
to
emerge
right,
and
this
happens
by
the
way
in
the
food
that
you
eat
in
the
clothes
that
you
wear,
you
will
wear
twenty
percent
of
your
clothes,
eighty
percent
of
the
time.
So
how
will
this
affect
an
organism?
A
A
Another
moment
of
clarity
I
I
was
working
for
a
company
at
the
time
which
was
going
through
a
rough
time,
and
you
know
you
take
a
look
at
someone
with
a
bit
of
gray
hair
and
he
says
to
you
look
organization
is
an.
A
You
have
your
hearts,
your
lungs,
your
liver,
etc,
cells
are
generates,
we
will
get
sick,
sometimes
they
die
and
you
know
sometimes
they
go
extinct
all
together
and
they
can
only
get
so
big
by
the
way,
guys
I'm
not
trying
to
focus
cliches
at
you,
but
this
is
a
brainstorm.
Remember.
What
I'm
talking
about
in
you
know
initially
in
this
call,
is
that
all
these
ideas
come
to
my
mind.
How
do
you
translate
this
to
the
work
that
you
build
when
we
build
apis
and
microservices,
they
eventually
die.
A
A
B
No,
I
I,
I
think,
you're
spot
on
there's
a
there's,
a
lot
of
similarities
between
what
you're,
bringing
up
and
and
the
complexities
of
you
know
what
what
folks
are
doing
from
an
enterprise
architecture
perspective.
B
A
Yeah
and
then
I
I
will
just
have
one
last
slide,
but
what
you've
seen
so
far
guys
are.
You
know
I'm
summarizing
what
ironic
what
I
came
across.
A
It's
all
things
that
moments
of
clarity
that
I
got
this
gentleman
by
the
way,
dr
agile
phd
computer
science,
a
friend
of
mine,
by
the
way
we
share
the
same
first
name
and
even
though
he
started
you
know
with
how
do
we
build
better
software
by
the
way
he's
he's
working
at
riot
games
right
now?
A
Yes,
sam,
you
know,
he's
a
hilarious
guy
that
guy
I
I
went
to
virginia
tech
because
I'm
in
virginia
I
went
and
visited
him
a
hell
of
a
time
really
really
nice
guy
and
I
I
think
he
sold
his
consulting
business
to
focus
fully
on
riot
riot
by
the
way
you
know
when
it
comes
to
video
games.
These
guys
are
amazing
league
of
legends
and
they're
putting
out
products
they're,
making
billions
a
really
successful
company.
A
It
eventually,
for
him,
too,
became
a
focus
on
the
soft
aspects.
So
right
now
he's
talking
about
business
agility.
How
do
you
get
an
organization
which
learns
and
discovers
and
how
that
translates
to
the
employees
in
it
and
how
that
learning
and
discovery
changes
the
organization
and
makes
makes
it
you
know
agile
and
survive.
A
So
I
I
will
also
have
some
links
to
some
videos
he
put
and-
and
I
think
really
that's
it
guys.
That's
really
all
I
had
to
share
or
all
I
could
over
the
last
two
weeks
from
the
discussions
I
have
with
people
and
all
the
observations
I
have.
I
hope
you
enjoyed
it.
I
hope
I
didn't
confuse
you.
I
I
hope
you
learned
something
and
discovered
something
and
yeah.
Why
don't
we
open
up
for
discussion?
I
I
don't
claim
at
all
that
what
I
have
will
you
know
will
solve
the
world's
problems.