Kubernetes Community, 25 May 2017

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From YouTube: Kubernetes Community Meeting 20170525

Description

We have PUBLIC and RECORDED weekly video meetings every Thursday at 10am US Pacific Time.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VQDIAB0OqiSjIHI8AWMvSdceWhnz56jNpZrLs6o7NJY

Demo: Automation and Tooling Within the Kubernetes Github Organization; Release 1.7 and 1.6 updates; SIG Cluster Lifecycle and SIG Scale; Bootstrap Governance update.

A

You're, fantastic, we're good to go all.

B

C

Can you remember hit it yeah I think we're free awesome thanks everybody for joining us, it's May 25th. So this is the kubernetes community meeting. We've got a pretty packed schedule today and I think we need to fit the first half of it into about 30 minutes and then the second half will focus on some some governance pieces. um So I guess I should continue.

D

C

A dog and excited to be I'm, seeing for the first time here. First up, we have some demo automation, stuff with Garrett Rodriguez around the the kubernetes github organizations. So we're not Garrett. You want to take us away. Yes,.

E

Sounds good! Thank you, hi for you. For those of you don't know me. I'm Garrett, I, work on contributor experience, I'm at Google and I wondered what LCA. As the contributor experienced lead. We focused on some of the tooling and automation as well as policies I guess we have a pretty broad mission of just improving contributor experience across the kubernetes organization.

E

Today, I wanted to talk about some of the metrics, some of our bot triage policies, some of the stuff related to the 1.7 release, some automation, things that have come up recently, some of our newer automation, some of github automation and then lastly, just a quick plug to get some feedback for the features process and that's actually true, sig p.m. so first I actually have done sitting next to me and she's.

E

The release lead for 1.7, so her Maru and the release team discussed some of the policies for the 1.7 release and, as in I, think the 1.6 release. They want every issue in the 1.7 milestone to be considered a release blocker. So if you go to the kubernetes repo and everyone should be able to select milestone, if you select P 1.7, there's another one that we need to delete to make sure you get the V 1.7 you'll see that there turned it off.

E

240, ish, open issues 242 and by the time we released that should down zero. Every issue is going to require one of the sig one of the sig labels. So if you look in there, there are these kind of brownish tan labels that represent a sig. We need at least one per issue: that's in the milestone and I'm going to talk about how you can add those to your issues as you create them, even if you're, not in the order, if you don't have maintainer access or right access to the repo and then every PR.

E

This is another thing that may be new. This policy may be new for this release. Every PR should be associated with an issue. Obviously, there's an asterisk at the end, if you've got something like a comment fixed or a typo, or something like that, you don't need an issue for it, but larger features should one they should be in the futures, repo, but larger bug fixes and big code refactored definitely have issues associated with them.

E

The other new thing for the 1.7 release are these status labels, and the idea is that in past releases a number of us have gone by and you've noticed. We ping you if you were owned a an issue and said: hey: what's the status and getting ting three or four times when you're working on something might be a little annoying, so we'll have these status labels that will indicate five states.

E

So when you open an issue by default, it's just it's going to be in the open state and then you can move it into the milestone.

E

How are we going to move it into the law? So since.

D

I know we do not roll everyone if they can't modify, they can move back each of them now still, but it's moved. Mouse cannot endure your groups consular issue or whatever a rather.

E

D

Dedicate should be a chromatic for that milestone, so.

E

The city has to accept it. It is the idea, so you can add the sig label to your issue, but it sig has to accept it and move it into the milestone for it to be considered 41.7 and then from there. The sig is responsible for assigning to someone or someone taking ownership and again that just requires moving in the status under development and then it'll be in review and finally closed.

E

So you've got these status labels, which should help us improve visibility into kind of lifecycle of an issue and again I'll cover how we can add the sig and kind labels along the way.

E

So for gaining visibility into this. We contribute experience. We had this company called Sappho, come in and show us our show us their tool and they let you build micro apps pretty easily without having to write a ton of code and I. Think they'll probably do another demo at contributor experience I'll send that out to the wider mailing list. So we can all learn how to do this, but they have a sequel back-end that syncs up with github and if you go to their app you'll, have to log in I'm already logged in.

E

So it pulled me up here, but if you log in with your github account they have like a no op, you can click on the milestones, IgG chart and select again view 1.7, and we have the breakdown by SIG's, so we can see which ones are in the milestone.

E

Actually don't have a cig label, so there are 28 issues right now and then the rest of them have associated SIG's and if you click on a specific stage, you'll see the breakdown, and eventually this is going to show the status labels that I was talking about before so we'll be able to get those five states open, open accepted for the milestone in progress, needs, review and then closed right now. This is just showing all the area labels just for for demo purpose.

E

So this is still a work in progress, but this is the tool the relief team is going to use at the burndown meetings, which is starting next week actually and then I wanted to talk a little bit about bug triage. Just a few quick bits of trivia I thought would be a little bit of fun. I looked at the repo and I wanted to see.

E

If we could answer these questions, it looks like there are around 18,000 total issues: open, 47, 100, human, open ones, there 4890 currently open, but these were like 100 or so baan open the kind Flake ones, so I filtered those out and then of the ones that are open right now by humans about 40% of them. Don't have a cig label at all, yeah, that's kind of a little high and a little bit painful. Another like pieces that statistics cause I will pull out is of the issues that are open about.

E

60% of them are open by or members, so we should do. I should really be doing better at assigning labels. I know that 60% kind of in line with 38% here assuming everyone from the org, is adding their cig labels and then, since I had the data, if I just thought, I'd pull out some trivia for the top issue, openers as well. Thank you.

E

So some of the policies that we've discussed- we haven't finalized a lot of them, but these things are, everyone seems to be in agreement, so I, don't know if we've written them down everywhere, but support issues are really not intended for the kubernetes repo. Please redirect back to Stack Overflow I think we actually have a link for the policy for that.

E

Someone wrote this nice message that kind of gives us a way to politely redirect feature not feature of us but support issues to Stack Overflow. So take a look at that. It's in the community repo under contributors develop and the on call. So.

F

Try and salute on set yeah.

E

It's hard to tell.

F

When somebody's requesting help, whether it's actually above or whether it's just they don't understand or upset things out, so sometimes you need two or three messages before you realize they're, just asking for help set up or that they've got some bad Doc's and then and then go ahead. Do this I met I frequently find myself saying: I, don't know this could be a bug.

E

Yeah, so we should try and verify. First I guess is the point, but once it's clear that it's a request for support suggest that they move to Stack, Overflow and then routing issues to respective repositories. This is actually in the issue template right now. So.

G

Just to go back to the previous for every one, second I, don't think that we actually have that policy in our issue template to say if you're asking for support click right here. Instead of opening an issue so suggest we just uh pay attention to good, because then we don't have to humans. Doing that sure what nobody reads that yeah, when.

H

A template has been not very effective, well.

G

I mean putting it, there is more effective than not having a very told, I'm sure, I, don't know people in reading no.

E

Argument there I.

F

Really wanted a bot.

H

F

Close anything that doesn't have minimum meditator well.

H

Yeah- and we also talked about that for at least four members- there's some expectation that they should know what to do so.

E

That expectation leads into our next topic. That's.

D

E

So, first of all, there's a few things that we can do if you write a PR that is associated with an issue as all things in the milestone should be in general. If you write a PR, that's closing an issue. Try using the fixes, keyword and I can do a quick demo of that in I've got another repo open here, and this is just a okay. I got four minutes, so this is a test repository and I believe if I write fixes number.

E

You know fixes some issue: I can go ahead and I make the comment and if I merge, the PR it'll close the issue. It used to be that you had to comment that okay.

H

You might have to.

E

Make that comment in the pull request itself, but github has the keywords called like fixes and closes just focus on fixes for now that you can use to automatically close an Associated issue and we want people to be using those as well yeah.

H

In general, these reference issues or other pull requests and PR description, not on the commit messages, because, if you put in the commit messages, it causes traffic on whatever you link to to every time, you push new tips, but yeah I believe that fixes half the domes. The first comments in the pr go: a opening message.

E

Okay and along similar lines, you can use /ct and flash on CC I haven't tried these out myself, but I believe this ads are requests. Github, reviews, the automation that we've added that's helpful as far as triaging is the capability to add the cig and kind label and mention a team, regardless of whether or not you're in new york, so I've got this test. Account you'll see that I'm sign-in with somebody. That's not a member of the kubernetes board, and this is an issue that is right now open and it's got no labels on it.

E

So, if I want to add it, I can do it in a few different ways. One I can type forward, slash cig and then the cig that I'm trying to add. So in this case sorry, Network and kind bug- and we can look- you can look at all the everyone has the capability to look at the labels that are open. But if I add that in a comment, the the robot will actually add the Signet work and the kind bug label who.

F

Can who can send those commands anyone.

E

Can send those.

F

E

This this is a test account that has no privileges. It was created yesterday, not a member of the org zero privileges at all, so anyone should be able to do this. The other thing, a few cichlids mention that they respond to issues based on emails. So these don't actually trigger your emails. Adding the labels don't trigger your email, so instead they want the notification, and this requires a little bit more work because you need to know the name of the. Let's try scheduling this time.

E

We need to know the name of the sake if you type this and you're, not in New York. This actually does not trigger a notification, but what will happen now is the bot will recognize that and should be chattering back, I guess yeah, so it added the label and it chattered back, and this one will actually trigger a notification. It's a little painful and we need to work on discovery so that it's easy for non orden, umbers to figure out which teams are there because, as you may have noticed, I didn't get the autocomplete.

E

So we need to add ability to figure out the team names. But this is a start at least of getting the notifications out.

F

E

This is I talk.

F

To young people to speak caught this, and this is by design for now, yeah.

H

Yeah and team members are also not visible to Nollan board members. Yes, you have to be any order to know to see anything related to TIA those we're planning to define key membership, keeping files check them again and then have some automatic say for those files they gave teams so that it will actually be obvious in what didn't even turn on our members. Like so.

C

I'm sure we've got, we got a few other folks in the image Enda and we we have about half the meeting reserved for governance conference. Okay,.

E

I'm just about done, the last thing was just the things that we have left to do: making discovery of the commands a little bit easier, making the team names easier and then, as a our care, Doc's got updated recently, so the core request has been consolidated or three Doc's got consolidating the one. So the PR policy is available here and I send out an email regard for survey or feedback force again and lastly, please participate in contributor. Spirits can.

A

You stop sharing your screen, then I can.

C

I think I'm. Sorry, a couple requests in the chat just record my print, a link in the notes for the caller. If you could put the link to presentation in the chat here, we'll get it to the Internet into the meeting notes for everyone afterwards. But thanks.

I

J

C

Awesome so we're next up, we have release updates and it looks like we have done. Don Chen, starting us off with updates around the 1 7 release.

C

Are you little stunt? Yes,.

D

Moenay's and under three women, so we call the face, it is next Thursday, so kindly I quickly, miss idea. There are mainly people and we have still have a 243 open like what two cars earlier misses. Many also is not of mystic groups at all, and we also, we also have the one mankind is not a fool, is not a collector here, so we also have the feature individual post, you have the 49 open and there are many open PR with that issues associated also.

D

So one thing it is like not to be the new everyone, individuals working on the cinema, peers and also I, think I'm also busy with the review of the PS. So we time to schedule the first Rebecca x0 mix Wednesday. It is the main circuit force, so we I pick out an X to the first vector our process, so we are going to start the two things we don't have the acting to build cognitive, so things this Friday we're going to take off the limit.

D

Managing team is going to stay close with all those critical films and we make kind of lighting engineer not of the groups. Okay. Here it is the tricky types and please tragical city has and how important. So we keep article kind of the process earlier compared to previous readings. So then, once the coda priests, we are kick out of them. We start the exceptional process, so exception process is going to work. That effective exception request on the June first.

D

But if you feel your feature, it is really in venture and you are going to to me site to deny you could start thinking about it. Is you can say you just click back to this see please release or is going to. You are going to further exceptional request, though so we have. The pre require record for the exceptional, unless it is, should be no risk of courses for the terminated.

D

It's not like the feature, if you finish the hold of a traditionally known risk, so better right now, if it is not passing through, are incomplete or it is appear, it is in the half-cooked appear. So please don't ignore the request and also we require actor.

D

If you are, if you are going to have the only view ultimate, you only have the one most of the things we found we have when she is open and is send about some reviewers, the real progress you could I think that connector our feature you can consider sent to the previous the exception request. The Denman also for the exceptional are depressed. It is the to fix, because we need to time the release management team need time to look the each the groups and figure out decisions.

D

So the decision is going to be made it on. The item is officer, support damaging in the June Simmons or second phenomena products. Exactly so we choose fill state, and so that's the kind of proposal. So so first up things where it is a reading for the meeting. So maybe sport on meeting is going to start on a June 5. If so, it's going to every other daily we're going to three times each week.

D

So if you have the certain parking, limited release and you'll, be there and Colin clear and please feel free to join us and discuss with us, so we also started. We already have the upgrade test ready from the previous enemies to the master branch. We have that stimulus for more than two weeks, so we already filed a civil issue and integration working on those things and there's a couple of example there.

D

So if you're, some in is you need to the apps they go at Renaissance, you need to the network teams, so engineer already help other things so next way it is. We should kick out the documentation totally nice and I think I have to end you enjoy here yeah, yes,.

K

Your merit- hey so I'm Andrew Chen I work on the docs team in charge of the release process for the 1.7 Doc's. So if you have features going into 1.7 that will require documentation, please add them to the feature tracking board. There's a link in this slide deck that Don you'll be sharing this right with the community. It.

A

Already has been ok.

K

Cool and then so then make sure that's in there, because I need a complete list to make to make sure how the documents go in and then quickly.

L

Sure about that in the past, folks, that is items to the feature, repository issues and mark them with a milestone and someone's not doing consolidated belt onto the tracking board. Is this a different process now I guess instructions are to go in and add items to the tracking boat board around yeah.

K

I would prefer to the tracking board I mean. Obviously I will check it against like the stuff in the in the PRQ, but it's easier if I sort of see ahead of time, because if, if you know like your, you have a feature that requires documentation, you can put it into the tracking board now and then create a you know: a PR for the down the line.

K

But it's easier for me to see up front because then I can start communicating with the future owners and make sure they know where to put the docks and answer any questions that they have. But I would like the the PRS to be opened by June 14th.

K

So we see a complete list, I mean they don't have to be finished, but like sort of in progress and then at the very least, you know tags on with the 1.7 milestone so that they won't accidentally end up in the in the master branch, because I can always move them from master into the release. 1.7 branch, which is already open now, but sometimes I, guess they'd slip through in the past. So I want to be more diligent about that for this one.

M

But just just run out from the air be an individual board as system engine, so we have two similar purpose was the purpose earliness when people have been crazy and a new interest for rule for Speaker Lucinda Futurist repo I've been consolidating them on the purpose. Release and I will do the same for dese release together together with documentation team. At the same time, I'd like to ask feature illness to do that from fungicide, because it can show much simplify, we'll, probably our job, my angers, so.

L

Permissions on the tracking board, I don't have permission to it with a share to cooperate. God.

M

Kevin sure trees cabinet is depth like Machida permissions and, if I get on I will update them. Thank you. I'm. Here you accountable living.

C

We have some folks from 1/6 and 1/5 that also needed to get some updates in here before before we hit the 30-minute work. We want to maybe continue some of this in black or on the mailing list. Yeah.

M

I, just a basically permission, so thank you. Thank you.

B

C

So we don't anything else on one seven I do we have Anthony around yes,.

B

So, just a quick update on one six, one, six four went out on last Friday and as a reminder that was a hotfix release that only contained a couple of things from the release. One six branch, the rest of that stuff is- was moved to now target 165, there's not a date in mind after watching science, if you have any suggestions or needs on that area, please let me know, and then lastly, there are some tests on the one six branch that are broken so I'm going to be looking for some people to help.

B

Look at that. If you have time please let me know we're go ahead and take a look.

J

Thanks, so we get then the notes here and then on main.

A

Create a system I, don't think we have nurses or 11.5 okay,.

J

No, no problem.

C

ah Cool so I guess I want to stick updates done, starting off with sig cluster life cycle. You think we're exciting. In Eastern the world of white cycles, hello, hi.

N

Everyone Luke here from successful life cycle app and just got a short update, um and we also have a demo from Mike Denise, who I think will be demoing component config very quickly. If that's, okay with everyone um Luke.

A

We're really tight on time today. Is it possible that, if we're looking to do a demo, we put you we bump you all into next week.

N

That's fine except I, am on vacation next week, so why don't I just give the status updates and then Mike can do the demo next week. If there's time we.

A

Can do it that way.

N

We'll also be at.

O

Kauravas fest next week.

A

All right: well, we can find you is.

O

I didn't know: Caleb asked me to do a demo. I could also do it in cig p.m. if that would be a better place or two in two weeks.

C

P

N

Cool I'll crack on with the updates quickly so um so in 41.7 is a component config, which Mike will demo at some point, maybe in the future, and if people want to know more info about comparability, also describe it at the end of this update. In parallel with that, the sig is working on a better add-on management proposal. We are working on design or upgrades NHA. Those designs are in progress. We are now targeting self-hosted upgrades in 1.8.

N

Unfortunately, we were not able to get that in for 1.7, but we are going to document how to manually upgrade cube ADM clusters in time to 1.7, so that will let these be an incremental step forwards in that direction and then also in scope are including cloud provider integrations for QA DM clusters and paying down technical debt.

N

We honestly, we haven't had quite as much progress as we as we would have liked in this take in this cycle, but both we've works and fto are adding people to help out, so the velocity should increase in the near future. Okay,.

C

Great, do we have anything, can click from the stig scalability hooks and.

Q

C

K

Q

Bob wise here, I, don't have a full update and since we're we're short on time, I think we should push that out.

Q

There's a 100 probably would make a little bit of extra time, but I didn't want to I'm saying that one of the things the group has been working on quite a bit is defining an additional set of say, larger and cross provider configurations for large-scale testing and I'm very happy to say: we've been getting direct feedback from, of course, from Google, but from Amazon from the Eternity as well as from packet, and so that's going pretty well.

Q

I didn't want to make the announcement here in case there are any lurking providers on the call that would like to touch base and I'll also try to figure out how to spread. The word generally would love to see from any different consumer provider can fix the clusters as possible.

Q

The doc presently is linked to the six scalability nodes, but we're going to be getting it into the Schism bility. You can get a github here next two days. That's all I have um I.

C

Think the governance is the next topic again. Was there something that was meant to go in this left blank intentionally area? No.

A

That was blank intentionally was so that we didn't run into this. This trouble with wasting time time, so we are all dead, I. Suppose people can probably see the governance, bootstrap doctors, the shared screen. Yes,.

A

Maybe not yes,.

I

A

Good, so for those of you who have been following along on the far end of our video conferences and github, xin, plaque and email lists, you've known that we are struggling with what has been characterized in a few different ways, one of which is a a giant rocket ship, their rocket attached to a bus while we're trying to build wings. Another is a success disaster we are.

A

We are so successful that we have found all sorts of new and exciting pain points which is awesome, we're having the right pain points, but one of them is how do we? Governance as we've gone from a Google company, lead project over the last year and a half to a community-level lead project? So in March we postulated that we needed to figure out how to get to a Governance Committee that what didn't begin with just people from Google nominating who would lead things?

A

We've tried a couple of things over the last six months the didn't seem to fit, and so in March we pulled together a Governance Committee through a series of email and that Governance Committee, the bootstrap Governance Committee, looks like Clayton Coleman Brandon Phillips, myself, Tim Aachen, Brendan burns, Joe, bata and and our bright heart, favorite Brian, grant, who all have long and storied history with this project trying to make it a make it a better and longer running more successful project.

A

So that group was brought together from this March email to do a few things specifically a documents that captures where we are. This has been works as being been done on a governance stuff envy file inside our repo, a document that describes what something what sort of decisions are made at the sig level and at the project level, and how those decisions are made, which is one of the challenges that we've had from from the beginning and I just kind of jumped in and got started. So anybody else from government.

A

The bootstrap Governance Committee should feel free to giveth and/or help if I miss something. So these were the three goals that were set forward for the governance bootstrap committee and we've met a few times over the course of April and May. In order to pull these pull together, some documents, mostly for review and for forward thinking to help with our later governance work because there will be more. Is it not? This is beginning not the end, so you can take a look at the meeting reports to see what we have done in short form.

A

We then define in the largest actual actionable item out of this. We defined what we believe a governing committee. A steering committee in this case should do and be and how we can get from our bootstraps state to a steering committee that that will guide us going forward.

A

We also documented some of what we're doing now, which is in the which is work that has been in the bootstrap doubt and B document, as well as more formally trying to put forward a modified lazy consensus instead of a monthly lazy consensus seeking process instead of the consensus seeking process which has gotten us, occasionally locked up on not being able to find consensus and not having a way to resolve issues, as well as the recommended project structure for the steering committee as it moves forward.

A

So the one we're doing now, more formalized turned into a recognition that nodejs has some really interesting governance processes which are similar and related to what we have been doing, but better and worse in some ways. So we've taken some of their work and codified.

A

The modified lazy consent just seeking model, and then you have a time period say to offer responses to something you can say, plus one you could say minus one and we are not necessarily needing unanimity to move forward. But if we reach a deadlock, we also need to have an escalation process. For that, and that's part of what the steering committee will do, we also have continued the simplification work on governance and me, and that's great thanks to Phillip wit rock, who continues to just chip away at that.

A

All of these are documents that you will want to read and review, and we will be accepting and requesting comments on them over the next few weeks. So when we don't agree, is the next step, so we have this. Yes, we really want to see it had to be a very grassroots decision made distributed decision-making system, but who makes decisions when we don't agree, and that was really the crux of the problems that we've been having or my opinion.

A

The thrust of the public's reason having over the last year is, if we didn't find consensus, who do we escalate to and where, how is there, transparency and accountability on that, so the bootstrap committee spent a bunch of time defining the role of the steering committee and what that scope and capabilities are as well as looking at, although they're not fully baked or ready to share, as I mean anything other than a dress.

A

Looking has been values that the community has in order to make these decisions and it's time where all of the work and the accountability lands. So the steering committee charter gives us a path to create a steering committee from the seven of us who have been in the bootstrap committee and grow it on to a selected body.

A

It also talks about being the steering committees ability to reform governance processes as necessary, because if there's anything that the last year adenosine showed the process that work six weeks ago or two releases ago, isn't necessarily going to work in two releases so being able to modify this and recognizing that we are always iterating and learning and growing as a project in the community and a group of people and as a decision-making body is important to push. How did I even do that?

A

Okay, um we're listening.

A

All right, let me the governance.

A

Bootstrap document again I have completely lost that all right, so let me find ran it and too many layers of indirection into this. So apologies I.

P

Think there's a link in the in the chat. Yes,.

A

Also in the community meeting notes, because I thought ahead, however, I am getting the control issues. Thank you for that, as I can find.

C

There were some some questions in the chat for you, Sarah from from Joshua. We.

A

Can also just start if someone can read those out while I am looking for the Saracen presentation, so.

F

The the one that's visible is: what's the process for reconsidering during community decisions event over governance, I'm, not sure, I, understand the question. The steering committee is the ultimate decision maker. Hopefully it is invoked seldom solemnly.

F

If somebody disagrees with the steering committee decision, there is no further escalation path. As far as I recall, okay, Kylie.

P

You can fork the project yeah, no.

Q

A question about a question about your node reference, given the community went through I think it would be fair to say a somewhat devices period, which I believe was at least what about governance issues. What was the the lessons you were taking kind of specifically around that or no.

A

The lessons that we were taking were primarily from what came out of that. So the lessons that we were gone from were from their existing governance. Documentation in government said which came on the heels of that reconciliation.

Q

Excellent. Thank you.

F

We didn't take the documented process. We took the process that came out of right.

A

Okay, so jumping further. Let me see if there are other process for reconsideration, pitchforks, plus one okay, all right, so the steering committees go. This ends up the steering the ends of being the ultimate responsibility for the ultimately responsible party for the growth and health and stewardship of the project, but I'd like to point out again that it is intended that the steering committee distribute and delegate the majority of this responsibility to existing in canoes community groups.

A

So while this is where everything rolls up, the value and the intent of the community is the ability to be autonomous and distributed in its decision-making, and that is something that we have run across again and again, and so there is certainly always a tension between a group who has you know ultimate decider Authority and a and a distributed a decision-making system.

A

But if we hold true to the values that that we have exhibited through this and are working to document, then through this the growth of this community, then we actually get to a space where, as Tim mentioned, the steering committee is in frequently invoked. The best possible case would be the steering committee meets, you know, sits around and says. Well, we didn't have any issues. What do we think about this other thing that might be a year or two years out in the future in order to help guide things in the long term?

A

This also leads to who actually drives consensus in this. So it's not the Sirian committee. It is actually the groups that have the decision-making authority and who are are distributed to and closer to the code. The work and the people that make up the community and those groups would then be special interest. Group working groups and committees take a look almost exactly like they look now. I, don't actually know anyway, things don't look like they do now short of it. Every identifiable, subpart, yeah.

H

It's just a requirement. Yeah, it's been under discussion for quite a while. If you want to I'm, we have owners and we have test owners and papers up, but those are all role of two individuals: it's removing to this more distributed model and you did with deal with people on vacation people who leave the project, etc. We talked about also ensuring that every part of the project, all under some state, so that there are mechanisms for oversight, broader oversights and backfilling people who would leave the project and things like that. I.

P

Think wanting a difference between a working group in a Vegas that sinks sort of have longitudinal responsibility over artifacts that are part of the project, and so making that line brighter and more obvious is going to help steer people in the right direction and sort of make it easier for people to make progress with the business which.

A

Leads us to work in groups when.

I

People that something with this longitudinal Feb 7th was really lots of the word than inter successes over time. They.

P

All gave Mount Stewart sort of a set of code, and you know artifacts that are part of the project over time. Waiting.

I

Order that simulate code in design code create.

A

Viable sub part of the product, I.

I

Just want to make sure I understood, that's all I've got it.

A

I

Yet it makes ur insulting yes,.

A

Everything is intended to be on the rule of two sig somewhere. Another yeah.

H

And we could see this that we've been moving. An instruction for Deborah Kerr was talking about. Every issue must have a big role, so it was not a change. This is just documenting the direction we're going. Okay,.

A

And we have found that we need another type of body. We've used this a couple of times working groups. They they are collections of people that may come from across multiple special interest groups, maybe a sub for of a special interest group to facilitate specific work that is either little or completely cross. When you know cross-cutting or not necessarily tied to a specific code chunk, we are we're still working on and as a community, we all have to work on. What is that bright line between working group and saying?

A

And what are things appropriate and also just have some flexibility.

D

A

Contributor experience as a short lived working group, and then we realized that the contributor experience will always be important begin to say, so. We will see these things move and working groups. The idea is to make a lighter weight starter space as well, so that you can create them and get rid of them as you need them, and not necessarily expect to Joe's point that they will have longitudinal responsibilities on code or other artifact somebody's.

P

Back counting I just want to make clear this this stuff about savings and working groups and stuff like this. This is a proposal to give you a flavor of the type of stuff that we want. The steering committee to ratify and work with the steering committee. This stuff is, is not official coming out of boot camp process, but it's sort of a starting point for the for the full committee to actually work. Yeah.

F

I think, like Sarah glossed over it a little bit. A really important point here is that the main part of this proposal is: it is a plan to transfer ownership and steering committee ship from the seven people in this bootstrap committee to a panel of people who are really truly elected by the committee.

F

We have a plan, we go read the Charter, it's your members are meeting, and at the end of that we have a steering committee who will then choose either ratify some of the things we put out here or choose to modify them, but we are not imposing that we're saying we think this is a reasonable way to go. Everyone are people to stop the.

A

Index document actually shows that the only thing that the the bootstrap group was really chartered with deciding and making a plan to go forward on was this theory, including charter, really like what is the one thing? How do we get from to the group that actually decides this, and then we can make recommendations and we can kind of step forward and, as we were having to forward suggestions- and we were having all of these discussions about what group can lead this community and how to get there?

A

All of these pieces are very our ancillary discussions but important foundational discussion. So we wanted to document the conversations as we were, having them and use them as we're moving towards the steering committee work and ratification. So none of this should be considered any sit. Well, the steering committee charter we'd like feedback on as the way we get to the next step, but this group ultimately really only gets to decide how to get to the steering committee charter and make recommendations on the rest of this.

A

So fins right, I did gloss over that apologies all right. One.

G

Quick question is it's that's okay, I was just wondering if there is this recall of the steering committee peek, if one of its responsibilities or mandates is to try to help the SIG's to be of you know very effective it. My observation is that some things are more successful than others and and there's potentially some role, which is to take the highly successful SIG's and perhaps have been mentored the less successful six. Or is that not something that the steering committee ceases? It's one of its responsibilities, pretty.

A

Much all of project health seems to me to roll up to steering committee scope, so vision, value missions and scope of all of this I think in order to make this a happy healthy community, we have to have the steering committee help that and we have to have each of the things help as well, noting.

H

What another time you can deal with it right, oh yeah, I in policy for defining new community groups and also project governance, survey, pressures and policies, and so definitely at times are gone. We expect to provide more consistent to share best practices across bids.

H

We discussed putting together templates and materials to make a year to start distinct, with an understanding of what the recommended best practices are, so we're going to allow things to tune those that they need for how that fit to this offering and a way that's effective today, hopefully, in fact this is the Leadership Summit they're going to be a couple of sessions to share knowledge and launch of different things and discuss how things can operate better. So that is an important lesson.

H

Hopefully we'll do a highlight of those meaning as well, but I do know that those countries that sponsor fight here.

P

So a fine point I mean like keeping the Qt healthy, is going to be the responsibility of the steering committee, but it goals for the steering committee to as much as possible delegate this to other things so like maybe there would be a cig or committee are working group or some other structure that could be like you know, Sigma or Sigma, or something like that. So your media, who.

A

Is working very hard at you, both community, as well as tooling I.

R

Also see operations as being angles.

G

Yeah that's gone on for migration, which then.

R

I'd love to see a meta operations grip to so that we can tie all these operational threads together.

A

Operationally user threads or operational project thread essentially.

R

A funnel in for user feedback from the field and a funnel out for all the basically a pig of cigarette, not finished scrum of scrums across all the like cluster obstacle, Esther lifecycles, all those different things, because right now it feels like six sprawl and off slant, and it's really hard to keep track of. Okay.

P

Dealing with city sprawl is definitely something that the steering committee to take up and get creative about, finding solutions there, okay,.

A

Since, as we have said, is a huge work in progress and will continue to take thoughts and feedback on it, cuz it's awesome, so we did go ahead and define a third group that we think is very important, and this came up.

A

It came up as his work that is being done already, but isn't quite different, but is for topics requiring discretion for topics that need to happen in you know, hashed out behind closed doors. We have to have a way to away and accepted means to do this, so we defined committees, so security code of conduct work is bootstrap committee. A lot of this had to happen.

A

Quite the you know, with a very small group not completely in the public just to get us over some of the more contentious and or discrete points that needed a discussion. So like cigs or working groups, there would be a charter, there would be a lead and the reporting up to at a minimum. The steering committee, but also to the community, is going to be a part of what is required of the code committees and for those of you who are interested in code of conducts work.

A

Please talk to me because we have a code of conduct, videos it is forming.

A

We also spent a lot of time discussing cross project communication. This is the this is two cases point of hard to track all the SIG's everyone's points of how do I keep track of. What's in a release we have. This is one of our largest pain points and we want to fix it a number of ways and we need to continue to work with all of us.

A

This direction, which is distributing decision-making as much as much as possible and communicating facilitating communication across the whole project in a more standardized, more complete way when it is necessary, because we want to push things to be as we capsulated and distribute it as possible, but there is still a lot that touches the whole the whole of the project and process. What processes proposals project light impact we need to there? You need to pull together a consistent plan and entered as to how we are going to have.

A

This is going how this is going to be communicated from Oh interest groups that may be making the decisions or how they seek and drive consensus to a decision across the whole project, but to the ends of what does the Syrian community do? In this case? Extended debate or deadlock? Decisions can be escalated to the serious steering committee and explicitly in all of the docks that you will read later that are referenced in here. We want to say that escalation is steering. Committee should be the exception like.

A

If the steering committee has a full agenda every time it tries to meet that's a very different problem, and that is not the way this group expects it to exist. So what might this look like as a diagram? We've got a Syrian committee roughly at the top. We have projects wide special interest groups like relief context p.m. docks testing there might, in a future time, be governance or architecture, special interest groups.

A

You also have horizontal special interest groups that touch a lot of code, that it looks the impacts, people project lives that might be all CLI UI a penny chenery, and then you have more vertical special interest groups who are more isolated and more focused on different, topical work that might be at related. A resource management, related administration, related or class related.

A

What's next for all of us, as we have six minutes left, and we want comments on all the Google Docs that are shared today until the middle of June I'm, not really long, they're, not alone. Please read them. Please offer comments. Please ask, for things are confusing I mean we tried really hard to make these kids ice and you'll even see things like there should be a process here, but that's not the point of this talk.

A

You know, so those will come in time as the sharing media, storms and then the steering committee works through the work that needs to be done through delegation, ideally and and through governance, as well so comments on the Google Docs that we should this morning, then once we get to a close period on get to the close of this comment period, we will move the documents in to move the document content into github and still reference back to the discussions that existed existed in the Google Docs, but move them that move them to github as a final place or final as a next step place.

A

Because, as I said, this governance is going to continue to evolve as our project involves. We are also working to formalize timeline and process to nominate vote on the steering committee members so read through that process. That's what that's the one! If you do nothing else in all of this, please read through the steering committee charter and a selection process, because that's going to be the group and the way we get to some overarching Authority in this Authority strong word. But it is it's this where the accountability rolls up to for this project.

A

So if you do nothing else, take a look at and comment on the steering committee recommendation or the steering committee proposal, anyone else from the bootstrap community. First, two things I missed something.

A

Wow: okay, thanks any other questions from the community at the moment in the next four minutes,.

G

You guys, thank you very much. Oh thank.

A

You I have to say thanks to all of the rest of the bootstrap community too, because this is a great fun to do. Oh Andy.

F

Thank you, Sarah for wrangling.

P

Kenneth, what what one thing that I do want to say is is I want to encourage everybody, even if you don't consider yourself a leader in the community to think about whether you want to actually nominate yourself or not. Many other people, maybe think, should be part of the certain tivity I. Think a big part of our goal out of this is to have a you know, diverse. In terms of you know, types and and backgrounds.

P

You know in all sorts of ways set of people experience levels in addition to sort of having a bench where, where people can get more involved and grow in their leadership stature with respect to community. So so please, please, please consider consider uh you know putting yourself and talking. You know to somebody else and working up to to run for the search committee under nomination.

Q

Process available right now, for that not.

A

Yet that is in our next steps is to formalize the timeline and end process. So there's there's one point that I did not mention, but it's worth mentioning when we were trying to decide how to define the steering committee how to set set forward, who could vote and who could run.

A

We determined that we wanted one of those two things to be bounded, who could be nominated, could be bounded or who could on it could be bounded and we opted to bound who could vote more tightly because we wanted those who could run to be a broader, a broader scope and a broader pool, and so please we are completely serious in saying get people who might not necessarily think they should run.

A

Ask them to run if you think they should participate yet engage people and encourage people through leadership and mentorship of your self to learn and grow within this community as well, because we need to be growing the next set of leaders. So you may say: I don't have time, but I know somebody who's been with the project a shorter of time, but is a fantastic asset and please encourage them their.

B

Short answer to the question of who can vote in.

A

The charter box, so there is a short answer it's outlined in the Charter duck- is.

F

The short answer ad in this gate clause for anybody who feel they should have a vote but getting fall into the criteria.

A

All right, I think we're at time I'm sure, there's lots of ways to all those.

C

A

Please go yeah.

C

Go ahead and go.

A

C

Just going to say that it looks like there's a couple sort of announcements in the image agenda here as well. Just give a shout out sounds like the new stack is doing a kubernetes user survey. There's when you stick around a juror, that's meeting wednesdays in a few other things. So if you have a chance, please take a look in the notes for places of folks are looking for help and if I think we are coefficient at two o'clock, so we can call it have.

A

A great day, thanks for joining us thanks.

F