►
From YouTube: Kubernetes WG IoT Edge 20230531
Description
May 31, 2023 meeting of the CNCF IoT Edge Working Group. Open discussion: Identifying ways to extend Kubernetes and orchestration to lower resource devices. Edge Native Principals Paper Review.
A
A
The
people
who
put
it
on
the
draft
I
think
would
like
to
do
that
in
the
second
half
of
this
meeting,
because
they
said
some
people
would
be
arriving
a
little
late.
So
until
that
happens,
we're
open
to
member
nominations
for
other
things
to
discuss
can
be
com.
Anything
from
a
question
to
just
some
topic.
You
became
aware
of
something
interesting
on
to
a
question
and
you'd
like
to
have
the
group
resolve.
A
So
the
floor
is
open
for
free
form,
discussions
for
anybody
who
wants
to
put
something
on
the
table
and
for
the
people
who
wanted
to
have
that
white
paper.
Discussion
just
go
in
there,
I'm,
not
even
sure,
if
who's
here
and
who's,
not
other
than
I
heard
that
they'd
be
arriving
late.
So,
let's
plan
on
that,
starting
about
9
30ish.
Unless
somebody
in
that
group
who
put
that
on
the
agenda
wants
to
suggest
an
alternate
time.
B
A
A
I
think
it
does
I
think
we
may
even
have
a
few
people
on
the
call
who
are
maybe
Authorities
on
that
subject.
It
depends
on
whether
you
know
there's
two
flavors
of
that
either
reducing
kubernetes
itself
or
not
using
kubernetes
and
they're
both
valid
depending
on
kind
of
the
the
right
thing
to
for
you
is.
It
depends
I.
Think
Frederick
here
has
given
a
talk
on
that
subject
at
least
a
couple
times
that
I'm
aware
of
yes.
C
Yes,
I
did
and
yeah.
The
ultimate
answer
to
the
question
was:
it
depends
because,
of
course,
anything
that
has
to
do
with
actual
Mission
critical,
real-time
requirements.
You
know
even
even
the
Linux
kernel,
just
the
Linux
kernel
doesn't
cut
it
for
that.
If,
in
the
eyes
of
some
people,
you
know
even
with
the
preempty
patches
and
all
of
that,
so
of
course
I
think
I
got
any
orchestrator
on
the
top
of
that
yeah
ruins
the
whole
story.
D
So
some
of
the
work
that
I've
done
has
been
interacting
with
real-time
operating
systems
with
kubernetes.
So
one
of
the
things
we
explored
was
creating
a
custom
resource
definition
so
that
we
could
use
MCU
boot
to
do
an
OTA
update
of
a
microcontroller
running
Zephyr.
So
it
would
trigger
the
second
partition
to
flip
over
and
do
a
reboot
so
that
you
could
be
into
another
workload
that
second
workload
happened
to
be
tensorflow
Lite
being
downloaded
to
the
microcontroller.
So
it
could
do
some
very
primitive
gesture
recognition.
D
We're
not
we're
not
putting
together
like
a
separate
framework,
we're
trying
to
stick
to
stock
kubernetes
wherever
possible,
so
I
mean
the
crd
was
custom.
Of
course
we
used
the
the
generator
the
open
API
generator
to
create
a
different
set
of
bindings
in
some
cases,
because
we
obviously
can't
use
golang
on
some
of
these
very
small
devices
that
have
deterministic
requirements,
but
so,
as
far
as
I
can
think,
it
was
like
a
hundred
percent
vanilla,
kubernetes
and
kubernetes
apis.
A
Okay,
so
just
to
make
sure
I
understand
this:
it
it
it's.
What
I
would
call
in
the
traditional
control
application,
what
they
used
to
call
or
still
do
supervisory
control,
where
you
have
a
high
level
control
Loop
that
gives
objectives
to
the
lower
level
devices
that
are
actually
where
they
execute
them,
with
real-time
reaction
parameters
right
so
you're,
using
kubernetes
kind
of
as
a
API
framework
to
effectively
build
your
own
API
to
control
the
actual
devices
in
a
supervisory
mode.
It's
that
about.
D
We've
experimented
with
both
like
with
the
small
microcontrollers.
Your
comment
is
bang
on,
because
we
would
have
like
a
Linux
gateway
to
run
the
cubelet,
and
then
the
crd
would
use
the
cubelet
running
on
the
gateway
to
interact
with
the
microcontroller
over
Bluetooth.
Because
is
it
there's
that
air
gap
literal
air
gap
between
the
two?
D
But
we
also
have
done
experiments
where
it
goes
beyond
just
supervisory
control?
And
we
have
done
a
number
of
different
things
to
play
out
different
scenarios
where
the
SLA
for
one
device
might
fail,
and
we
actually
have
orchestration
going
on
in
the
background
to
fall
back
to
another
device
that
is
able
to
meet
the
the
objective.
A
Well,
I
have
to
say
that
being
in
this
group
for
years
now
that
going
down
that
path
by
my
observation
is
really
common,
that
you're,
you
know
you
don't
have
to
be
nervous
that
you're
the
first
one
to
ever.
Do
it.
It's
almost
maybe
a
little
shocking
that
there
are
more
standardized
ways
of
doing
that,
like
off
the
shelf,
where
somebody
has
turned
that
into
a
platform
so
that
users,
one
at
a
time,
don't
effectively
go
do
the
research.
A
D
And
and
that
hits
on
the
reason
I
wanted
to
bring
it
up,
I
mean
making
sure
that
we
adhere
to
the
standard
and
create
some
sort
of
Open
Source
standard
for
people
that
want
to
do.
This
is
something
that
we'd
be
interested
in
interested
in.
In
particular,
when
I
started.
Looking
at
the
worker
note
requirements,
there
were
some
things
that
make
perfect
sense
for
a
standard
worker
node.
That
may
not
be
required
for
some
of
these
forage
devices
like,
for
example.
D
Perhaps
you
don't
actually
need
an
overlay
Network,
because
your
small
little
microcontrollers
may
not
be
talking
to
each
other
directly.
They
may
just
be
talking
to
the
supervisor.
To
use
the
terminology
you
use
Steve,
so
I'd
be
interested
in
sort
of
figuring
out
whether
we
could
Define
some
sort
of
leaf,
node
or
device
node
in
the
specification,
so
that
we
could
say
that
we
were
adhering
to
The
Standard.
E
Yeah
Liam
Randall
I
work
on
a
webassembly
in
plasma
Cloud
long
time,
kubernetes
person
as
well.
You
Rob,
if
you
explored,
you,
know
using
webassembly
or
runwasi
or
any
of
the.
You
know,
webassembly
tools
on
the
real-time
OS
stuff
in
your
work
here
and
I
apologize.
I
was
a
couple
minutes
late
onto
the
call
I'm,
not
sure.
If
you
already
covered
that.
D
C
D
The
main
advantage
that
we're
perceiving
is
the
ability
to
have
a
single
pane
of
glass
for
all
of
your
devices
so
that,
when
you're,
looking
at
your
Enterprise
I.T
systems
and
your
OT
systems,
you're
able
to
have
those
currently
separate
teams
come
together
and
do
common
planning
for
how
you
coordinate
software
updates
across
all
those
systems.
How
you
roll
out
security
fixes
and
how
you
make
sure
that
you're
able
to
keep
all
of
your
systems
up
to
date.
Using
the
same
sets
of
policies
and
procedures.
C
F
A
I
think
Frank
you're
exactly
right,
but
it
once
again
it's
a
Continuum
kind
of
based
on
how
much
resource
you
have.
So
some
of
these
things
that
people
call
Edge
have
enough
to
effectively
run
three
nodes
of
compute.
You
know
three
Intel
Nooks
or
something
in
which
case
they
can
be
a
kubernetes
cluster
and
it
can
make
sense,
but
others
I
think
it
becomes
kind
of
a
gray
area.
When
you
get
to
one
compute
node,
you
know
you
could
run
that
as
a
so-called
single
node
kubernetes
cluster.
A
I
o
devices
that
they
would
like
to
also
manage
in
I.
Don't
know
I
hate
the
term
one
pane
of
glass
because
it
really
isn't
a
world
where
operators
are
involved
at
the
scales
we're
talking
about,
but
one
overall
supervisory
control
plane
that
can
put
all
of
these
things
together,
like
I,
say:
I,
don't
think
that
there's
a
solution,
maybe
that's
a
good
thing,
because
the
technology
at
Edge
is
certainly
evolving
rapidly,
so
locking
in
a
design
early
might
be
actually
undesirable.
A
Things
like
advances
in
microcontrollers,
getting
smaller,
cheaper,
lower
power,
web
assembly
being
Universal
across
CPU
boundaries,
but
they're
they're,
sort
of
all
like
bit
spot
solutions
to
one
aspect
of
the
many
problems
you
have
and
yeah.
No
one
has
There's
an
opportunity
for
somebody
to
to
do
an
over
embracing
Suite,
I
think
so.
D
E
I'd
work
on
that
I
mean
we've
been
working
through
this
problem.
You
know
through
webassembly
and
I,
think
we
kind
of
hit
across
the
Continuum.
You
know
we
obviously
support
kubernetes
out
of
the
box
with
cncf
Blossom
Cloud.
You
know
you
can
deploy
natively
or
via
operators
right
there,
but
where
we
definitely
see
the
biggest
opportunity
is
way
down,
Market
or
in
complex
devices.
Think
like
the
AMD,
zolynix,
fpgs
or
fpgas.
E
You
know
they've
got
multiple
processors
on
them
and
you
look
at
the
different
lines
of
processors
that
arm
builds.
For
example,
they've
got
the
real-time
CPUs,
as
well
as
like
the
server
side
or
mobile
CPUs
as
well,
and
you
often
find
these
things
integrated
together
in
complex
packages,
so
I
do
think
that
starting
with
defining
the
domain
and
what
are
the
characteristics
that
sort
of
would
be
a
far
Edge
versus
a
middle
I
think
would
be
helpful.
There
is
an
awesome.
E
E
So
it's
a
little
bit
more
web
assembly
focused,
but
I
know
that
we're
not
the
first
people
to
have
this
discussion,
so
it's
probably
worth
looking
at
some
of
the
prior
art
in
and
around
the
ecosystem
here
in
order
to
in
order
to
see
in
order
to
see
what
people
have
done,
if
I
can
get
your
screen
share,
I'd
show
this
image
real
fast
and
folks
could
take
a
look
at
it.
Okay,.
E
D
E
And
I
and
I
are
thinking
exactly
the
same
here
on
you
know,
I
mean
these
are
the
these:
are
the
brains
behind
like
5G.
You
know
things
like
that
when
we
think
about
the
last
hop
before
you
get
to
a
device
or
on
a
device
itself.
You
know
that's
essentially
what
you're
looking
at,
and
this
is
from
the
from
the
Linux
Foundation.
They
have
a
whole
separate
working
group
that
where
this
image
is
sourced
from
and
we
made
a
custom
version
of
it,
I'd
be
happy
to
open
source.
E
If
we
wanted
to
tweak
one,
because
we
also
threw
in
our
version,
we
threw
browsers
in
there
because
we
feel,
like
you
know,
things
like
webassembly,
really
just
give
you
the
world's
tiniest
virtual
machine
so
that
you
can
think
of
a
browser
or
other
non-traditional
execution
targets,
as
as
a
domain
where
you
can
be
operating
devices
but
I
think
that's
certainly
is
a
different
definition
than
what
you
would
use.
If
we
were
thinking
about.
Where
does
kubernetes
work
and
in
a
kubernetes
in
a
world
dominant?
You
know
where
just
kubernetes
is
an
option.
A
I,
ask
you
a
follow-up
question
on
that
to
make
sure
I
get
this
proposal
straight,
but
using
a
browser
to
host
webassembly
are.
Is
this
something
you
would
think
for?
Edge
could
be
something
where
the
browsers
effectively
the
equivalent
of
a
Docker
runtime
for
a
real
low
resource
thing
that
is
already
there
guaranteed
to
be
installed
in
the
OS
and
you're,
not
even
using
as
a
browser.
Just
something
you'd
invoke
to
run
a
piece
of
code.
Yeah.
E
Absolutely
Let
me
give
two
examples
of
that.
So
Adobe
did
a
case
study
with
our
open
source,
wasn't
cloud
and
one
of
the
big
takeaways.
This
was
in
background
removal
as
a
microservice.
One
of
the
big
takeaways
was
that
in
over
80
percent
of
all
cases,
they
were
actually
able
to
push
the
workload
into
the
customer's
browser,
and
that
meant
that
it
was
faster
because
you
weren't
uploading
images
and
back
that's
400,
milliseconds
versus
just
pure
browser
was
40
milliseconds.
E
It
was
cheaper
because
they
weren't
paying
for
the
compute
and
it
was
the
same
quality.
So
I
think
that's
where
webassembly
and
kubernetes
really
start
to
tell
the
Better
Together
story,
because
on
their
back
end,
Adobe
is
all
kubernetes,
so
they're
able
to
seamlessly
you
know,
run
workloads
that
extend
in
both
ways.
E
This
is
a
your
first
part
of
the
question
in
the
second
part,
I
would
point
out
when
you're
looking
at
you
know
some
of
the
Modern
Edge
type
people
like
fastly
fastly
uses
a
runtime
to
run
their
compute
products
for
webassembly.
That's
called
wasn't
on
and
that's
from
the
BCA,
but
cloud
flare
actually
uses
headless.
They
use
V8
in
in
running
their
webassembly
processes,
so
they're
actually
using
you,
know
the
core
engine
out
of
the
browser.
The
other
big
engine
is
spider.
E
D
E
You
know,
there's
there's
a
couple
projects
that
integrate
this
directly
into
kubernetes,
there's
a
if
you
wanted
to
run
webassembly
natively
I'm
going
to
do
some
big
air
quotes
there,
because
the
deeper
you
get
into
kubernetes
the
more
you
discover
that
kubernetes
is
really
tightly
coupled
to
the
idea
of
a
container,
but
there
is
a
shim.
That's
called
runwazi.
A
So
Liam
to
summarize
I
see
that
there's
the
transport
layer
kind
of
the
orchestrator
that
would
tell
a
a
leaf
or
an
edge
node
What
It
Wants
running
in
what
version
and
the
observation
that
perhaps
you
can
use
a
web
browser
engine
to
be
your
runtime
for
the
Wazi.
But
what
about
actual
containerization
of
it
and
by
container
I,
don't
necessarily
mean
Docker
container,
but
maybe
I
do
mean
oci,
because
it
strikes
me
that
you
still
need
packaging
for
these
web
assemblies.
Where
you
have
provenance.
E
E
E
I'll
have
him
just
you
know,
release
a
version
of
this
that
we
can
just
pick
up
and
use
and
we
can
customize
our
definitions
and
use
whatever
we
want
here
and
you
know,
lay
kubernetes
on
it
as
a
layer
more
clearly
or
something
I've
tried
to
do
that
here
lightly
and-
and
you
know,
that's
our
corporate
cut
sheet
kind
of
stuff,
but
when
you're
thinking
about
how
do
you
move
these
webassembly
modules
around?
They
are
actually
moved
around
as
oci
artifacts,
and
there
were
huge
reasons
for
this.
You
know
we
worked.
E
If
you
look
at
who's
in
the
by
code
Alliance,
you
know
it's
Google,
Microsoft
Amazon
and
all
of
these
companies
have
huge
ecosystems
around
oci
scanning
of
artifacts
itemizing,
artifacts,
Distributing.
Caching,
you
know
all
of
those
kind
of
things
now
underneath
the
hood,
though
there
is
a
little
bit
more
introspection
that
goes
into
webassembly.
E
Webassembly
is
really
about
moving
around
a
unit
called
component
and
what's
powerful
about
components
is,
is
that
they
can
be
combined
into
new
components
or
they
can
be
satisfied
at
runtime.
So
one
of
the
big
ideas
that's
happening
behind
webassembly
is
just
right
here,
your
business
logic
and
then
deploy
or
attach
your
components
for
web
servers,
key
value
and
other
non-function
requirements
at
runtime,
as
opposed
to
compile
time.
E
The
advantage
there
is
is
that
you're,
obviously
getting
the
latest
version,
and
when
you
look
at
the
devex
around
like
a
fastly
or
a
cloud
flare
or
my
company
cosmotic,
that's
really
what
we're
driving
for
as
well,
which
is
you
know,
containers
are
great,
but
we're
really
driving
for
that
next,
higher
level.
Abstraction
where
you
look
at
the
common
complexity,
that
is,
you
know
the
things
that
the
95
of
the
source
code-
that's
all
open
source
that
goes
into
each
and
every
app.
E
You
know
that's
the
really
kind
of
big
idea
there,
but
underneath
the
hood
it
is
tightly
coupled
and
aligned
to
a
Better
Together
story
with
kubernetes
I'm
sure
CNC
Blossom
day
as
well,
and
we
actually
just
announced
wasm
con
recently
I'm
sorry
I'm,
trying
to
not
turn
into
trying
to
turn
this
into
a
web
assembly
call
just
just
on
on
things
that
I'm
super
excited
about.
So.
E
A
This
sounds
great,
injecting
this
into
the
birds
of
a
feather
and
I.
My
personal
latitude
is
maybe
I'd
like
to
turn
this
into
a
longer
discussion.
If
you
want
to
put
yourself
on
the
agenda
for
a
future
meeting,
you
know
to
go
into
this
in
more
depth.
Our
agenda
is
open
to
members
to
just
nominate
self-nominate
things
just
go
put
it
in
a
future
date.
A
F
G
G
E
E
Yeah
yeah
we're
we're
plugged
in
there
Kevin.
The
creator
of
Blossom
cloud
is
the
tech
is
the
technical
advisor
to
that
new
subgroup.
That's
spinning
up,
so
we
have
a
couple
members
that
attend
there,
but
it's
just
pure
coincidence
that
I
decided
to
start
attending
this
and
we
needed
to
and
I'm
actually
trying
to
work
on
a
Wind,
River
Project
right
now
so
for
Rob
on
my
ptme
after
this
call,
I've
already
got
questions
about
a
whammer
support
on
on
the
on
Wind
River.
Real-Time
OS
sounds.
A
Yeah
I've
done
seen
you
at
any
other
meetings
Leanne,
but
just
another
thing
that
might
be
of
interest
to
you.
That
came
up
a
few
meetings
ago
is
that
you
know
one
of
the
hottest
topics
going
on
here
and
Edge
isn't
going
to
be
left
out,
but
it
it's
Ai
and
machine
learning
and
you
know
to
reinforce
that
it.
A
For
this
bof
I
was
saying
what
have
you
done?
Cool
and
I
kept
my
mouth
shut,
but
the
coolest
thing
I've
done
in
the
last
week
is
I,
went
to
my
first
physical
Meetup
of
What's
called
the
tiny
ml
foundation
and
they're
having
physical
meetups
around
the
world,
and
it's
kind
of
astounding
you
know
chat.
Gpt
gets
all
the
popular
press,
but
man
the
amount
of
r
d
being
Unleashed
for
Edge
machine
learning,
accelerators
inference.
Engine
accelerators
is
just
incredible.
A
A
few
weeks
back,
I
put
references
to
ICS
with
accelerators
in
our
slack
Channel
and
I
came
up
with
16
just
easily
I'm
sure,
there's
many
more
than
that
went
to
this
meeting
and
it
was
local,
Southern
California,
but
there
were
about
30
people
there
and
man.
Everybody
was
excited.
They
were
generally
representing
Hardware
vendors
in
the
form
of
Chip
vendors,
but
the
world
world
is
going
to
see
some
big
advances
there.
Now.
What
goes
along
with
this
I
think
is
a
need
to
have
a
control,
plane
or
and
orchestration.
A
If
you
will,
although
you
know,
there's
yet
another
thing
to
be
managed
that
I,
don't
think
Docker
containers
or
web
assemblies
the
solution
and
that
is
getting
updated.
Training
model
training
data
to
these
Edge
nodes
that
are
actually
going
to
run
it,
and
maybe
bi-directional
Communications
with
all
the
typical
challenges
of
low
and
intermittent
connectivity
with
these
Edge
nodes.
A
E
Yeah
yeah,
that's
that's
where,
when
you
look
at
the
you
know
the
design
of
awesome
Cloud,
it's
really
positioned
around
some
of
the
Native
orchestration
challenges
and
with
webassembly
specifically
and
we've
been
focused.
There.
We've
been
a
cnci
project
for
a
couple
years
now
and
we've
exceeded
the
effort
to
go
incubating
so
we're
in
the
process
of
applying
for
incubation
now,
which
we
hope
will
raise
the
kind
of
profile
in
and
around
the
ecosystem.
E
We've
done.
That
was.
We
did
a
talk
at
arm
Summit
in
the
fall
where
folks,
from
Intel
and
BMW
had
a
extended
the
webassembly
standard
to
support
interactions
with
machine
learning
models
that
were
running
in
tensorflow
underneath
webassembly,
so
it's
sort
of
as
a
sidecar
to
webassembly,
not
in
webassembly
itself,
but
the
logic
was
in
webassemble.
In
order
to
do
you
know
to
Route
data,
to
a
local
machine
learning
model
or
to
a
cloud-based
model
depending
on
security,
privacy
or
availability.
E
So
I
think
that
we're
all
circling
around
the
same
elephant
and
looking
for
all
these
amazing
pieces
of
it
that
we
can
pick
off
and
I,
definitely
think.
There's
a
lot
of
opportunity
and
greater
collaboration
Steve
to
come
back
to
your
point
in
around
open
communities
where
we
can
build
on
each
other
and.
A
We're
going
to
call
this
to
a
close,
because
I
think
the
people
are
here
for
our
second
topic,
but
Liam
just
go
back
in
the
agenda
notes
and
look
at
it
might
be
of
interest
to
you
of
something
from
Sony
media
quora.
That's
an
attempt
to
use
webassembly
to
create
an
abstraction
layer.
Virtualization
around
machine
learning,
inference
engines.
It's
go.
G
B
So
we
had
a
discussion
here
with
this
forum.
I
think
it
was
about
five
six
weeks
ago,
where
we
talked
through
the
concept
and
an
early
draft.
We
then
collected
feedback
live
from
that
group
and
then
shared
the
this
draft
of
the
paper
on
the
slack
Channel
and
with
the
Google
group.
Since
that
time,
we've
seen
comments
coming
in
and
we've
now
reconciled.
The
majority
of
those
I
think
there's
still
a
few
comments
down
below
that.
B
We
can
maybe
talk
through
here
today,
but
then
just
following
sort
of
the
same
process
as
last
time
with
the
creation
and
finalization
and
Publishing
of
the
first
white
paper.
I
think
we're
at
the
stage
now
where
we're
presenting
this.
As
our
proposed
final
draft
back
to
this
group,
we
can
take
this
opportunity
to
incorporate
any
final
feedback
from
the
group
and,
if
desired,
you
know
we
could
leave
this
stock
open
for
a
little
bit
longer
for
any
additional
comments
or
questions
from.
A
B
But
for
my
role
here,
I
just
took
the
opportunity
last
night
to
go
through
the
paper
again
provide
and
edit
a
very
light
edit
for
clarity,
30
or
flow
and
a
proofread,
and
in
order
to
sort
of
match
the
format
of
the
last
paper.
I
added
an
author
and
reviewer
section
to
page
one
and
included
some
names
of
folks.
That
I
know
are
working
on
the
project.
There
might
be
some
names
missing.
F
H
F
F
F
F
So
we
basically
said:
okay.
Well,
let's
take
this
very
simple
application
where
we
have
an
edge
portion
and
that
would
live
like
a
smart
device.
Hatch,
so,
relatively
far
out,
where
you
know
that
this
site
is,
is
going
to
be
detached,
it's
every
now
and
then,
where
it
might
not
have
a
load
of
Upstream
connectivity
where
the
Upstream
connectivity
might
be
constrained
over
multiple
layers
of
an
ad.
And
what
have
you
where
we
would
acquire
the
image
then
do
some
processing
in
it
on
it.
That
might
be
simple
resizing.
F
G
F
I
F
Become
really
like
more
that
you
can
have
a
way
to
mentally
attach
to
these
individual
design
principles
and
design
behaviors
in
a
more
natural
way,
using
this
example
application.
Yes,
it's
a
very
simple
one,
but
simple
I
think
it's
not
necessarily
bad
here,
because
it
probably
resonates
with
every
everybody.
So
we're
saying
like
what
do
I
need
to
go
and
do
for
concurrency
and
scale.
What
do
I
do
need
to
go
on
for
articulating
dependencies?
How
do
I
deal
with
failures
at
the
edge
for
that
particular
application?
F
How
do
I
deal
with
the
fact
that
edges
need
to
go
and
be
able
to
discover
their
environment
and
be
aware
of
their
environment?
Like
yeah,
well
discover
the
endpoints
that
you're
dealing
with
from
a
sensor
perspective
in
this
case?
That's
the
camera.
How
do
I
deal
with
storage
I.E?
You
don't
want
to
go
and
persist
data
at
the
edge
you
want
to
persist
data
in
the
cloud.
You
only
want
to
go
on
Cache
so
that
the
disposability
of
of
the
edge
location
is
still
a
given.
H
H
No
problem,
I'm
gonna,
add
I'm
gonna
dovetail
that
in
because
it
adds
a
layer
of
complexity
here
so
yeah.
So
one
of
the
other
things
that
we
talked
about
you
know
within
the
working
group
is
that
there
was
this
notion
of
you
know.
Well,
today,
people
are
very
much
used
to
HUB
and
spoke,
but
when
you
get
into
spaces,
where
disconnected
operations
is
more,
you
know
a
familiar
concept
like
oil
rigs,
offshore
cruise
ships,
Interstellar
Communications,
etc,
etc.
There's
becomes
this
notion
of
well.
H
H
This
notion
of
intermediaries
or
esps
Edge
service
providers-
and
there
may
be
multiple
of
these
that
are
in
the
middle
that
provide
either
some
kind
of
DMZ,
where
there's
a
division
of
responsibility,
Matrix
between
what
is
the
Hub
responsible
for
versus
the
spoke
or
it
could
be
just
merely
a
transport
layer.
That's
ignored
for
the
for
the
sake
of
targeting
deployment
of
workloads
and
it's
just
used
as
a
you
know,
a
means
to
get
to
the
outer
edge,
and
this
could
be
something
I
mean
Steve.
You
brought
this
up
in
the
past.
H
This
could
be
just
somebody
like
that
works
on
a
on
an
agricultural
setting
in
an
agricultural
setting.
That
is,
has
a
cell
phone
that
collects
all
the
data
and
then
at
some
point
in
the
future,
they're
going
into
town
to
get
supplies,
and
they
happen
to
brush
up
against
the
Wi-Fi
or
or
some
kind
of
cell
spot
and
then
are
able
to
transmit
data.
F
G
What
one
Edge
looks
like,
and
now
here's
what
you
know
this
goes
now:
200,
maybe
500
and
building
that
from
one
Edge
to
a
region
to
Global,
if
that
made
sense,
the
gist
of
from
one
location
and
how
it
scales
into
Andy's.
Point
of
here
are
the
different
tiers
and
what
that
might
look
like
and
again,
the
intent
is
to
provide
an
example
of
people
can
then
go
and
utilize,
for
whatever
their
specific
project
is.
I
H
A
F
But
if
we
we
separate
the
code
from
the
data
and
say
well,
we
would
assume
that
there
is
indeed
an
instance
of
something
that
can
persist.
Storage
at
the
edge
which
is
separated
from
the
application
that
is,
is
and
and
we're
basically
talking
to
application,
design
principles
here
and
the
the
design
behaviors
we're.
A
So
on
this
screen
share
I'm.
Currently,
looking
at
the
the
section
is
entitled
data
storage,
you
maybe
could
entitle
that
cloud
backed
data
storage
and
it's
an
optional
feature
that
you
need.
Maybe
you
usually
use
it,
but
don't
declaratively
state
that
that's
all
there
is
and
that's
all
you're
allowed
to
use.
F
F
A
Be
another,
and
that
could
either
be
two
well
probably
more
likely
three,
but
it
could
be
two
just
a
mirror
at
Edge,
where
two
edges
in
the
same
call
it
political
domain
or
something
for
data
privacy
restrictions
could
back
one
another
up
and
it's
better
than
no
backup
right
and
okay,
I
I
like
that.
But
I
think
maybe
this.
This
has
room
for
improvements.
A
And
then
the
other
thing
that
maybe
you
call
out
is
as
I
read
this
this
strike.
It
struck
me
that
this
was
more
going
down
the
path
of
it
being
kind
of
App
application,
layer,
time,
series,
Centric
kind
of
data,
but
there's
another
category
of
data
which
I
would
call
kind
of
the
control
plane,
the
desired
State
configuration
and
that
kind
of
thing
those
are
a
form
of
data
storage.
A
You
know
that
are
aligned
with
the
control
plane
more
than
the
application
plane,
but
they
still
have
the
same
thing
where,
presumably,
even
if
you're,
using
something
like
a
get
Ops.
The
get
repository
in
the
cloud
is
the
authoritative
single
point
of
truth
and
the
stuff.
You
might
still
even
have
a
small
git
repository
down
at
the
edge
node.
A
That
is
effectively
a
cache
that
is
getting
populated
from
the
cloud,
but
would
calling
out
data
storage
use
cases
for
the
control
plane
itself,
as
opposed
to
the
applications,
be
a
useful
concept
because
I
think
they
might
use
you
know.
They'll
they'll
have
different
governance
models
that
would
be
desirable
and
maybe
even
different
places
and
ways
they're
stored.
You
know
so
the
control
plane
might
store
and
get,
but
for
application.
Level
data
like
frame
by
frame
video
or
something
that's
unlikely-
to
be
appropriate
for
storage
in
a
tool
like
that.
A
H
Right
I
mean
a
system
of
record
or
source
of
Truth,
as
you
put
it
like,
GitHub
or
NCD
depends
on
which
you
know
you're
choosing
or
maybe
you
use
both
is
different
than
is.
You
know
categorically
different
than
application
storage
right.
So
it
may
be
useful
to
think
about
the
not
only
the
mode
right,
the
sovereignty
versus
non-sovereign
data,
but
it
also
is
useful
to
I
think
think
about
the
categorization
of
the
data
type
as
well,
and
so
I
think
it's
all
useful
here.
It's
good
color.
I
H
I,
don't
think
we
double
click
on
them
on
the
monolith
as
as
an
edge
here
in
this
particular
paper
but
I.
My
answer
to
you
is
what
you
know
the
old
famous
saying
it
depends
right.
I
mean
I,
don't
know
that
we
necessarily
prescribe
any
any
particular
architecture
type
for
that
for
what
should
be
on
the
edge
and
I
think
you're
right,
I
think
it
could
be
in
many
cases.
H
You
know
you
see
like
k3s
or
you
see
microchip
right
down
there
they're
very
happy
to
run
in
microservices
rather
than
a
monolith
or
or
or
run
a
monolith.
So
I
don't
think
that
we're
in
any
position
here
in
this
paper
and
I,
don't
know
if
we've
already,
if
we've
done
it
at
all
in
the
paper,
I
can't
recall,
maybe
Victor.
You
know
that
we've
prescribed
it
being
monolith
versus
microservices.
If
that's
your
question.
A
F
J
F
A
J
H
F
Key
thing
is
like
whether
you
can
treat
the
edge
as
an
extension
of
the
cloud
where
you
don't
need
to
go
and
change
anything
from
a
from
a
principal's
perspective,
then
well.
Well,
that
could
be
like
it's
not
really.
A
verification.
I
think
it's
the
the
qualities
of
that
edge.
If
that
edge
is
like
suffering
from
limited
low.
F
Whatever
connectivity
from
specific
policy
constraints
from
specific
security
constraints,
then
I
think
we
need
to
go
on
do
something
different
than
just
treat
it
as
an
extension
of
the
cloud
and
I
think
this
is
where
this
applies
so
it
it
doesn't
necessarily
say.
Well,
it's
only
far
Edge.
It's
only
near
Edge,
it's
only
smart
device
Edge.
It's
only.
We
can
go
and
well
expand
that
further
in
next
next
Wednesday
no
week
after
next
Wednesday
in.