Kubernetes Long Term Support Working Group, 10 Jan 2019

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From YouTube: Kubernetes WG-LTS APAC tz 20190110

Description

Introductory meeting for APAC tz

WG-LTS Charter: https://github.com/kubernetes/community/pull/2911
Meeting frequency: biweekly

Mailing List: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!aboutgroup/kubernetes-wg-lts
Meeting and Agenda Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J2CJ-q9WlvCnIVkoEo9tAo19h08kOgUJAS3HxaSMsLA/edit?ts=5bda357d

Other docs mentioned:
Version Skew Policy: https://kubernetes.io/docs/setup/version-skew-policy/

A

B

Are there everyone.

B

It's what you can pull it out the meeting minutes, while we wait for everybody to show up I, will place the meeting minutes in the chat.

B

I just give it a couple more minutes for everyone else to show up.

C

B

B

I'm at I don't think: we've met I'm Nick.

C

B

I'm going to see both here, yep, okay, so here is the meeting minutes. Now you need to join the working group who look the working group Google good, it's groups all the way down. I requested.

C

Access but obviously don't have it yet: okay, right, okay,.

B

I will check that they I'll update the doc with the meeting minutes as we go along.

B

Okay, so well, do you guys have video is slightly traditional to have the video on for these calls? Oh is.

C

B

We will get started, then, if you can figure out how to turn your video on as we go, then that will make it easier. Oh nice, okay, so just add everyone to the attendees things.

B

I'm just for the agenda today, we'll just I'll just basically bring you all up to speed on what the what the group is about.

B

So the so the LTS working group, although it sounds like it might be, is not a working group. That's to decide what an alts should look like it's.

B

Actually, it really should be called WG LTS, or are we even going to have an LTS and what does in the LTS mean, and what does that great story and a whole bunch of other questions like that, but that'll be too long to fit in any reasonable, abbreviation so WG LTS for weapons, um so where we're at is that we've been I've been talking to I am the other guys.

B

So the co-chairs have been talking and we've been talking to the community of quite a bit to sort of gather stories and what people's and questions are about like. Why do people want an LTS for cube and what are the things that make them? What at end? Should we really be considering I'm like releasing a LTS version, or should we move to something like yeah? Well, the kernel? Don't try and with that davell and a stable branches that you can.

A

Release to their super.

B

Cadence or something like that, so all of this is still open questions in a large part of the reason why I wanted to push having a call in our time zone is so that we can make sure that I know there are people in Australia using cube and I know that having some sort of LTS, something like an LTS decision made, will impact all of us and so I wanted to make sure that we all had a chance to talk about it at a narrow. That's not like four o'clock in morning. That's.

C

Pretty good because I've been having the conversations with people about most of the cadence of kubernetes releases in the past, the three monthly cycle, whatever it was, got okay, but now it feels quick, yeah.

B

Yeah once you actually start running things in production, you know that's what we found as well is that once you're actually running things in production, the you know you sort of takes you a few weeks to a month to sort of evaluate and make sure that you're not going to have anything change on you or in the new release, and then you get it released and then, by the time that's done like you get, you run it for a month or two.

B

If everything works really well and then you're, and then you start the thing over again, so it feels like painting a breach.

B

And with yet with the current release, cadence, so sorry you go yeah.

C

We're we're certainly playing an interesting pattern of where we do like in one. That's the aim just to be one release behind so.

B

One so given that we're coop December and it's a major minor patch, so you have one minor release behind for one patch release, one one.

C

Minor release behind okay. So if it's one thirteen is out, we will try to be on one twelve, but then we've been caught by cops lagging behind, which is a discussion that keep on already about the cadence of that and to be able to match, there's a possibility of a solution to that, but we generally can get ourselves up fairly quickly to it. But the problem, of course, is the ecosystem. That goes with it.

B

Yeah sure, yeah, absolutely and I, see I, see a comment from you mad about, depending on our quiet features, I think that's quite fair. The sort of stuff that we've been talking about in the other meetings is that you, the some of the actions that we that we're trying to sort of get ready to take is number one. We're gonna, try and send out a survey of users of cube to say, like you know, what is your experience upgrading?

B

What are the pain points with you upgrading on this in the three monthly cadence, you know what you and try and just gather information about what the problems are, and you know if people have any solutions. You know stuff that we've talked about our you know things like. Maybe we make because right now, the ad I guarantee and the deprecation policy says that API things can be changed in basically can be fully deprecated in three releases. So in nine months.

B

So that means that you know, if you only upgrade once a year, you might miss a full deprecation cycle. I give you only upgrade once every four versions, then you might miss a full deprecation cycle, and so you could get really good, and so you know we talked about. Maybe we extend that out to four other things that we've talked about. You know stuff like you.

B

If we can bring more of the based constructs to GA, so that then there's less sort of change in the core parts of cube, then, hopefully, this pain will go away a bit because you upgrading won't be as big a deal because you know the stuff, if you're, if your pods deployments, services, ingresses and all that sort of stuff for all stable API is then the stable API guarantee says that yeah that stuff shouldn't change, that is literally well stable, API guarantee means, and so you, that's probably one of the things that, where that came out of the cube session a bit was that that sort of thing is sort of I just realized something at the things.

B

There's a couple of meeting things isn't my first time running one of these there's a couple of meeting things that I needed to say for the record: firstly, the it's being recorded and I'll put it up on YouTube afterwards, the same as all the other community meetings and yeah. We are, as always, expected to abide by their community code of conduct. Sorry about that yeah and yeah.

B

So once you once, we sort of organize you guys with access to the to the meeting, minutes and stuff have a look through and sort of see what we've talked about previously. Obviously, the u.s.

B

time zone meetings are often bigger because there's more US time zone- people, oh yeah, so the I guess for us today, I guess what I really wanted to do is just get you online and get and get us sort of talking a little bit about it, so that you knew that this is a thing and that you can pass it around to everyone. You know to say you know hey if you've got thoughts about the upgrade process and I have never made a kubernetes user who didn't have thoughts about the upgrade process.

B

You know, then, you know, there's a there is a chance to share them and there is a chance to do something about. You know the pain points. um People are definitely thinking about this. That's.

C

Interesting that, like I, said I, didn't really know about this group, but I do have a significant verse, a shion's at could con about this there's, as you might be aware, there's a lot of things that have been pulled out of communities itself out of core mm-hmm.

B

C

You got the cloud stuff being pulled out, I think goal is hopefully around 1.15 and the other thing that's likely to happen is could control you will likely be decoupled as well. That was pretty close to being done, and this is one of the things that you often see is developers put down coop control from a brew package. The package gets updated and lags behind your community's posture itself, and then someone stopped working now they were working on a compatibility of plus one minus one likely push it to plus two minus two.

C

Now that's likely what they're going to be aiming for, but as things get stabilized, so these are really important aspects that we've already had to deal with internally. These are the problems that we have to do it, so it seems, like the community itself is beginning to realize that there needs to be a wider breadth of support. Yeah.

B

I think I, think sort of maybe in in a sentence sort of that there may be like a good way. To summarize what the point of the working for appears is to you know. Everyone agrees that yeah. We probably need a wider breadth of support. Then we currently have, but no one's really sure exactly what that means, and the point of the working group is to help us all decide. What does that mean? What does a wider breadth of support mean doesn't mean that we do something more traditional or do we say hey?

B

This is a new world everybody like you know. It means that things are going to work a bit differently and we come up with something new about the version ski thing and Jordan ligand dinner PR a little while ago that has now been merged, but you hope you find it in there there's a dance. The PR for the updates to the versions new documentation will add. That adds an official sort of position on the Virgin's queue, but like a virgin skewed document that says this is the supported billion skews between those between different cube components.

B

So yeah I definitely have a read of that. That's the sort of the canonical place that these sort of stuff is captured at the moment. Jordan. If you look at the PR Jordan has a whole bunch of to dues in the top of the PR that are basically a whole bunch of things that a whole bunch of SIG's are going to need to do, but you as WG LTS, we will be watching it pretty closely as well.

B

Yeah attention.

C

To see as well, there's also been talk about the idea of effectively being able to say that certain components have been used by X number of companies, and at that point you can feel there's an element of maturity behind it as well. This is what they're looking at impossibly cops when they were lagging on the behind and there was being working with newer versions to at least have everyone mark off if they were using it.

C

So at least you can have some poor confidence that it was working reasonably well on what your issues might be if you're willing to push beyond the supported ranges right, okay, see.

B

Sorry, I just taking some notes.

B

B

It so it's sort of blessing blessing good blessing, particular parts of there.

C

Yeah and with the kid control guys, I was talking to him specifically about having multiple packages being maintained, as in the prepackaged is not just duplicating an older one or susan un camión and wiping away, because you need to be able to epicly, pin things as packages so keep older packages around and they're aware of this issue as well, right, okay, so I think it's dome any angles that are all realizing that you know you cannot expect everyone to be at the cutting edge of this.

C

So you have to expect that people be in different stages. Yeah.

B

C

B

Mean I think I think also people are sort of like in general. The community is kind of expecting point that the larger platforms will help a lot with this with for a lot of people, I know that yeah and, and things like cops incubate a.m. will also help with the more they build support for making it upwards easier. The more everybody who uses them gets that, yes,.

C

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C

As well like you know, when you're looking at things like overlay, what's their compatibility with kubernetes versions and things like that again, the critical pieces same with ingresses and so on. So you don't want to be sitting there. So I've done an upgrade. Do these pieces still work.

A

Think that, of course, just gonna make it harder to get that version, and that version skew that version support matrix almost becomes more of a more of a concern. Yeah.

B

Yes, exactly on the so we do have people from sleep testing and some of the other and seek performance involved in you. There's also. Some of us are involved in those as well team, pepper who's. One of the other coaches is actually the release manager for 114, so it obviously is pretty familiar with the cube test matrix and now terrifying already, let alone, as we sort of separate out pieces. So it's definitely stuff. That's on everybody's minds. I also just realized when I'm writing the agenda. That.

B

B

And we need to actually introduce ourselves, I missed that, forgive me for being a noob and running these meetings I'm. So yes,.

B

I am Nikki I'm, going to work for a lycian in last year's kubernetes team and I am a co-chair of Alphaeus. What does that mean I meetings and to admin staff for the working group, yeah and I dial into the 4:00 a.m. Wednesday meetings? So you guys don't have to it's. A large part at the point of this meeting is for me to dial into the for our meetings and then be able to show up here and be like so here's what we talked about so Mike over.

C

To you, my client, I work 4-9, and the system shows me that, basically, as part of the team that sort of manages the Cuba needs infrastructure.

A

And like mike I'm here at nine, what are the principal engineers that does stuff with infrastructure and platform delivery.

B

Okay, yes I guess for today, like I, don't really have much else aside from bringing you guys, I've just been a little bit on it. I will I'll have a look and see if I can approve you guys to join the group and once once abs, all I'll ping, you guys on being Michael and slack the mean minutes and all of the important stuff so that you can read the things. Is there anything else you want to talk about well,.

C

Knowing that this group exists on which I really know about it should be easy, gonna bring a bunch more people in there yeah we've got some private Cuban ease groups that I will put everyone into and see if we can get them across the here yeah. This is a critical issue for I guess enterprises. This is more of an issue for enterprises.

B

Them yeah, yes, others, so the intent, the intent of the meeting today was basically to just to do. That was to say, hey. We have a regular meeting of this group now. This is a jewel by weekly meeting every second Thursday of you know at this group before oshio neocon zone. So you know please encourage everybody to come.

B

You know this is a pattern that kind of this working group is trying out that other seats and working groups haven't really been able to get to work so I'm, hoping that we can make it work here and show everybody how it's done. Yeah.

C

For sure, look we'll make sure we'll get for the next one. We'll have more people we'll put our love messages are that it shouldn't be too difficult to get more Australian enterprises on board for this to point out what's going on, because this is a big issue for everyone. Yeah.

B

Yeah yeah absolutely and that's why I so I knew that you guys were doing it and that's why I was like yeah. You know: I've been a bit head down actually doing had been stuff for for this group and doing my day job to actually keep up too much with what other people in Australia we're doing. Also Pro yeah anyway. um Look thanks for coming today, guys if there's nothing else, then then we'll wrap it up here and give you 40 minutes back in your date also but yeah. So yeah, please!

B

If you do come up with anything that you want to add to the agenda the deal with the agendas. Is you just add it to the next meetings agenda? So I'll. Add our next meeting next meeting a pack time zone agenda, item I like seeing in the agenda, and so, if you have anything you want to talk about here, then just add it in as soon as you join the group, you got edit access to everything and there's a thanks.

B

A lot but I appreciate that no problems, guys thanks very much and I, will call soon all right. Still. Everyone bye.