Kubernetes SIG Cluster Lifecycle, 29 Sep 2020

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From YouTube: Cluster Addons meeting: 2020-09-29

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Meeting Notes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10_tl_SXcFGb-2109QpcFVrdrfnVEuQ05MBrXtasB0vk/edit#heading=h.pdzq6mdlevb5

A

Hi friends today we're going to be doing the cluster add-ons meeting. It is september 29th and thanks everyone for joining. We have a bit of an abbreviated agenda today, but a few things to discuss still first off. I think everyone here has been on this meeting before, but uh any.

A

Intros, as always, these meetings are publicly recorded and we have public agenda doc, so feel free to jump in and edit that, if you have anything to add um as far as things that we needed to review from the last meeting, I did this was two weeks ago. I did join the kuba dm planning meeting to bring up add-ons. Santoshi was also there, but um sandeep was not able to make that one because of the conflict.

A

But we did talk about what a supporting accordions operator would look like. There is work uh happening this cycle as well to add skip phases to the declarative api for kubernetes, which will allow kubernetes to kind of have an official path to not be concerned with add-ons at all.

A

So there will be a supportive way to do that and uh that's currently missing.

A

um So that's a step forward uh for the initiatives that we've been pushing here and they're still interested as well as expanding the scope of what kuberdam will do with add-ons.

A

When it is dealing with them by default, so fabricio also wants to set up a design meeting as far as I've seen there. This has not happened yet I didn't receive an invite to it, but they are looking to do some considerable refactors uh or modern ionization efforts to bring kubernetes closer to what the design patterns of uh the kubernetes community has moved to um is they'd like to rebuild things a bit, and that includes the approach to add-ons with our apis and then um yeah.

A

That was kind of the main thing that we needed to follow up on as or we did get a great um kind of uh traffic going towards some tochi's blog post as well great job on that, and does anyone have any additional topics that they wanted to insert into the agenda before we talk about the other things.

A

Cool and um daniel wasn't able to make it today, but he brought up um doing hacktoberfest for the cluster islands project and I was wondering if we had uh any kind of like low-hanging fruit that we wanted to mark as a good first issue. For that kind of thing.

A

This is going to require an owner for sure. So if we can't get somebody to like go through and do a little bit of project management- which I don't have the bandwidth for right now, then we may have to skip on the oktoberfest.

A

B

uh Possibly related uh cops is gonna, do hector fest and I was gonna try to focus on getting add-ons into uh cops. uh So that's in the space uh uh I was gonna do like some sort of um kickoff thing at 9am on thursday and eastern on thursday, which is the first um and then I have to get to emphasize that more, but uh hopefully there'll be some traffic there. I I don't know whether people will attend if they do that's great.

B

If they don't, then uh I'll, probably just work on integrating into add-ons but uh yeah. It's not yeah. It's not clear for me how to publicize these things. Anyway, um it's not telling me exactly what people want like do. They just want some pr's or things like that, like kubernetes already does a reasonable job. So it's a little bit of a of a different case for oktoberfest, um but, like you know the work that satoshi did in google smart coda.

B

It was a great model for like a longer um engagement with like more interaction, and I think trying to achieve. That would be wonderful. So I don't know. I don't know whether it's as important to triage issues as it is to sort of try to focus people on like meetings and out-of-band meetings and mentoring and or, like you know more, like uh any questions or getting uh getting people going type thing more than like. I think, having like you know, for pr sent by someone is great, but it isn't.

B

You know really uh what what our projects necessarily need as much as they need um like sustained, uh allowing people to work in a sustained way.

A

Yeah we certainly um in some of the areas that we're working in don't need. You know typo fixes and um you know like easy. Docs wins, um but uh I don't know. Maybe there are some documentation things that would be good first issues um yeah, but I I definitely hear what you're saying about like the need for sustainable development effort like over time, because we kind of reached the point in many of these areas, where the context necessary to contribute is quite substantial.

A

um So you said you'll be doing a kickoff call at 9am eastern on thursday.

B

Correct 9 a.m: eastern on thursday, which is the first of october- uh I it should be on the sig cluster lifecycle calendar um and I guess I'll publicize it. I don't know. Maybe I will be like to get my twitter account see if I get a login for that thing, or something like that, um but uh yeah we're also like looking at uh experimenting with different hours for the cops meeting, because it's particularly europe on friday, because it is uh like noon uh eastern on a friday, which is best case, 5 p.m.

B

On a friday night friday afternoon, uh for most of your more likely to be six seven right so.

A

Yeah in the evening for people dinner time- great, okay, well, uh that's exciting! I actually I I might be able to join that as well, so I'll see if I can jump on.

C

D

Sorry I wanted to ask like what what channels like, how have you been able to share like the information around so like people know that this is happening.

B

I have that to do to uh to share it. All I've really done so far is like I, hopefully have put it on the shared calendar for the sick cluster life cycle. Although I don't see it myself, so I don't know. uh But yes, I need to do more on that. If you have suggestions, I'm very open to hear them, but yeah it's supposed to be on the show.

D

B

See it so that's not good.

D

Like is it is, is it open to like absolute beginners or is it for someone who has like some knowledge in like the cuban it's his name, space.

B

I think it's open to everyone uh we'll see who shows up if you know, if we get a mix, it's gonna be harder, but uh yes like. If you want to stop you're, obviously very very welcome and uh anyone is very welcome to show us. uh But yes, it's it's in theory, open to anyone. I would hope we you know there are. There are some of the external professors for like people that need exponential senior first, pr, which I don't know, it's probably not going to be a great match for like getting.

B

I mean it's not a terrible match, but you know like it's: it's going to be a harder journey um for those people, but uh we'll see, I guess we'll see who shows up if I don't figure out how to publicize it correctly, no more so that makes it much easier in terms of uh not having people with different abilities.

D

Yeah, like uh I guess we could like share it on like humanises contributors channel like country country, backs like the sig. I I guess that's helpful, since it's not just like it's open to everyone, yeah and probably get them to tweet about it or something so it's open to like the wider community. I just don't know because I, okay yeah, we still have like a day. Fest is like the day after okay. That's that's fine.

A

Yeah, it sounds like you would be interested justin and, um like kind of the the mission of the meeting like what you're kicking off is, is not just the feature support, but also the maintenance for the add-ons themselves or because there's definitely a gradient of difficulties. There.

B

uh You mean it's, it is, it is cops, so it's like getting it getting them integrated into cops and like trying to like bridge any remaining gaps, um it's sort of my interest, but it might be that when people show up, they have other topics of interest. um Yes and then, like part of that, will obviously be the ongoing operation.

B

uh You know like the big thing is just like getting the final pieces done for uh like somewhere, she did and like just getting it merged, but also once I'm hoping, I can get it basically there and we can then have people build a lot of operators. I think that would be super cool like something actually like unblocked that process and made it really smooth and so like being able to have operators for everything would be awesome and feels very manageable. For um you know, people that want to just do drive-by contributions as well.

A

Yeah I mean that gives us a much more uh like clear place to do the kinds of life cycle, implementations that are tricky for people with installation and uninstall, and that kind of thing wrong. Okay,.

D

Cool we saw lisa also also need to like drop, like a short note on what the meeting is about like yeah and make it like interesting enough, so that someone who doesn't like who doesn't really know what's going on would want to like come and check it out.

A

So I'm gonna take some notes on action items here. uh We wanna prepare some meaning notes um publicize uh within kubernetes org, uh publicize.

A

I'm gonna say probably mainly within the kubernetes, or um there are a lot of contributors you know floating around, who are not actively doing something that might want to join and get involved. um That's a pretty sizable group of people and also like users who are lurking around in the community. um Who may have that intention and then we can see about maybe like doing uh something with kate's contributing twitter. Maybe is that something we want to do.

D

I think that that's great too, that's that's too agree.

B

Yeah I mean we, don't necessarily want a thousand people to show up so.

A

Yeah, but yes do you think that that is that that would be a good thing to do, or should we avoid doing justin through this meeting.

B

I don't know I I'd rather keep it lower key and like if no one shows up I'm fine with like live coding or something like that. But.

C

A

E

D

A

On just communicating that this meaning.

D

A

Within uh the existing.

D

A

Organizational channels yeah, um so some touchy- are you available to join this meeting again.

D

uh It's supposed to be first, it's supposed to be a public holiday in nigeria, so if and I'm traveling home, so if I'm home before two, then I'll definitely make you for the meeting.

A

Okay, uh would you it sounds like justin's uh like working on several things right now. Would you be able to help him at least come? Do the communications uh about this? Oh.

D

D

Yeah, I could help out.

A

Cool all right.

D

A

I'll say some sushi to help on these items cool, uh so it's 9 8 9 a.m. Eastern! Let's, let's make sure that we.

A

Ensure posted to sig.

C

uh Cluster lifecycle, calendar.

A

Okay, you get to work on some of the fun admin stuff that chairs get to do some touchy cool excellent. um Well, thanks for for bringing that up, it sounds like we have some good things to work on there um to get the cops stuff uh moving with a little bit more uh open in our organizational governance um cool. I mean the other thing beyond that. uh Just about hacktoberfest was. I know that we do have some in flight caps.

A

um Oh nick, just joined um one of the major ones that I just was thinking about. Was the oci uh kep that the folks from the uh olm teams had opened up, and I know that keps um are the perfect place for where good ideas go to die so just wanted to check. If we we still want to focus on these things, I personally think that the ideas are sound, but I'm just spread a bit thin at the moment.

D

I think we could piss like the link to the caps and the dock so like it's easier to locate them.

A

Yeah, that would be a really high iq thing to do.

A

I'm struggling a bit on staying organized.

A

This is going to be in the enhancements repo and then um it's one of those.

C

C

The polls this was about.

C

Just like pci and on.

A

Add-On speed there might have been a link to this.

A

E

Can folks hear me now hi nick yeah, we couldn't hear you before, but you sound good hi cool thanks, uh yeah. Sorry, we've been spread a little thin too um over here. Hence why I haven't even opened the add-on discovery kept, which I'm sure there's a ton of holes in, uh but uh I'll ask evan where he is with the oci.

E

um I I don't think, like everybody acknowledges it's a good idea. Nobody wants to actually accept it. So if it's something that's you know it's been months, so maybe we should just like call it or something I'll ask him what he wants to do.

E

A

um Is a good idea needs an owner, um I'll just mention nick to follow up with heaven. That would be really helpful. Thank you.

A

This is definitely something that we works is also interested in um what how this develops.

A

uh I guess it's worth mentioning that um we've has been doing a- uh I guess not very well publicized, but openly governed uh project on a thing we're calling profiles, um that's based off of a git repository, and uh it is a form of packaging of um manifests, and uh in that working group I did mention the work that was happening uh upstream and within om. Around oci and uh shipping manifests inside of docker images as a workaround.

A

uh So there's potentially some uh it's clear that there needs to be an open spec for sharing these kinds of things, or at least we need to have some minimal way of discovering packages and pointing people to them. That's not just you know some manifest at a url uh yeah a little bit of there there's a there's more formational work kind of happening here with kept uh and its ability to kind of uh vendor and update um other upstreams using git, um and this is all in the same space.

A

So the kinds of uniformity and like that we could develop. You know with these various protocols, but also having that packaging specification uh would be it's going to be important to get that right.

E

Yeah, this is something we've been uh spending a great deal of time like trying to redesign and reimplement like um in olm land, uh and I think one of the one of the things we've been going over is um how git, like tracking, uh specifically um layering additional metadata on top of the existing bundles.

E

That's useful is um in being able to like uh kind of originate and identify the original stuff, and then the original stuff, plus additional metadata, um and then also you know, generalizing this and being able to use it and something that I don't think add-ons has been too keen on doing, which is uh dependency resolution.

E

So that's the other side of the coin, with that, this is all to say that we have some um kind of stuff coming out of the pipes in our enhancement. Soon. That may uh help with um defining these things.

A

Yeah and then I've been uh having some close conversations with a helm maintainer about what's happening with artifact hub as well, and I know that um the operator hub stuff has been kind of uh merged up into artifact hub. um Can you help me understand what the artifact that's actually being exposed there with operator hub is? Is that just a docker image? It can't be right? It needs to be. Is that the oci image that's packaged, I'm not sure.

E

I don't believe so um I'll have to talk with daniel messer, who is the pm responsible for kind of pushing that side of things? It was my understanding that.

E

We had created a way to just ship helm, charts in operator hub rather than package um helm charts as operator bundles, which is our like image. Variant of the oci.

A

Okay artifact for these things, so that that might be why that integration was more simple. There are other artifact types uh inside of artifact hub, um mainly falco rules and opa policies.

A

um So there's a there's already an interesting kind of uh assortment of styles of artifacts and formats there- and this is this- is kind of an official like cncf, sanctioned effort.

A

So if we want to continue uh staying up to date with what's going on and then uh before you joined nick, I don't know how much you heard about what justin was talking about james as well, you may have missed that. We are having a kickoff meeting for cops. Add-Ons integrations um at 9 00 a.m. Eastern on the first, which is thursday.

A

uh This is primarily kind of like for oktoberfest but add-on discovery through a place like artifact hub, or at least having that conversation about how people are going to be able to find things would be important that obviously crosses into the add-on, bundles and helm, charts packaging for those things, as well as whatever weave is accomplishing in the short term, with profiles and get repos.

A

Unfortunately, I lost the ability to take notes in parallel on some of these things, but at least we have a recording.

E

Cool I'll try to be there.

A

All right: um well, we hit the end of our agenda uh nick james. I know you joined after this, so you kind of missed our call for topics. Did you want to bring up anything else? In particular before we join the meeting.

E

I think I'm good for my side um for right now all set cool.

A

uh Thanks everyone, uh it's always great to hang out with all of you, so we'll uh keep moving on these topics, thanks justin for the cop stuff and we'll see everyone at a minimum two weeks from now, if not on thursday, if you're able to join so.

A