Kubernetes SIG Docs, 7 Feb 2022

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From YouTube: K8s SIG Docs Localization Meeting for 20220207

Description

For more info see https://git.k8s.io/community/sig-docs

A

I'd like to welcome everyone to the February 7th 2022, uh Sig, Doc's, localization, subgroup, monthly meeting, this meeting is being recorded and also um the uh the conduct policies of the cmcf are are in effect. So please, let's all be nice to everyone um and first you know: I I did put the agenda in the chat but to get started. Is there anyone new anyone who hasn't been here before and would like to say hello.

B

Yes, it's me hello from me: uh I'm Sharia, actually So, currently working with the Bengali localization yeah.

A

Which localization.

B

Bengali, okay, it's not I I've been working with it apparently just uh created.

A

A clear, basically yeah, fantastic, welcome and thanks for joining uh you know we have lots of resources. Are you honestly I did put the agenda in the chat? Is there anybody who joined late and didn't see it in the chat, but I do have the doc. If you wanna see it there.

C

D

Hi, yes, Roger.

E

D

Yeah I'm working with uh Hindi localization.

A

Fantastic, that's excellent.

A

um Are you able to see the uh the chat document? I I, take it in the chat, the uh the agenda document.

D

Yeah yeah, okay,.

A

Fantastic well welcome to both of you, we're very happy to have you and uh we're gonna see some great updates today. I'm sure um um the first update uh comes from Natalie.

A

um She is not able to attend today, but she did provide me her update and asked me to report it for her um they're working on. You know making the localization sub-project official right. So this would you know, instead of just being a subgroup, um will actually be a true sub project um and so she's taking care of the formalities to do that um she has to write a cap.

A

So it's a you know: kubernetes enhancement proposal, she's, currently working on it plan is to have it finalized by next month's localization meeting um she's gone ahead and let all the localization groups know that you know she's working on the sub-project creation um looks like Abby and myself will be co-leads, um so we're excited about that or at least I hope we are right. Abby um and um you know more help is always welcome.

A

um Any any questions or comments on that.

A

Happy thoughts you'll be like how did this happen to me? No.

F

Yes, exactly so I just would like to say: I'm really excited uh to be here and be helping out um and just reach out. If you have any questions or need me to look at anything um happy to get started.

A

Yep so yeah we and then you and I should start talking more uh now, that's the new year and we're through the holidays. We might want to make sure we're we're looking at that cap and seeing what we've signed up for so um you know, offline I'm, sure you and I can start talking a little bit more.

F

A

Fantastic fantastic, so that is exciting it. You know it's exciting that you know uh people have recognized the work that this subgroup has been doing for the past year and it's nice to see some formal recognition. We should all be proud of ourselves. It's been a really great group.

A

um Okay. So let's uh go look at the next topic on the agenda uh uh and uh uh looks like first is gonna be anuvab?

A

G

So this was like an issue with naming of localizations, basically especially which you, those which use non-latin scripts. Okay,.

E

G

Stumbled upon this, while working on Hindi localization, so so we checked with other localizations so like Korean, Japanese and Chinese localization. So these and config.tml.

E

G

These localizations write their name in both their own script and the Latin script, so that non-latant, so that Latin readers can also understand it, but the Ukrainian and Russian localizations right only use their own script. For writing the name of localization, okay.

H

G

Actually appears in the drop down menu of con drop down menu on kts.io, so actually, while working on Hindi. So we stumbled upon this. So how do we write our localization name? Do we use Latin and the script of Hindi, which is called devnagri both or we only use devnagri? So we were discussing this on slack with Tim and Divya, so they directed us towards this meeting. So we need to decide a standard on that.

A

Okay, is this something you can share your screen and kind of show us a little more, so people can have a better understanding of what you're, saying or or now.

G

You can share my screen if you know.

C

Yeah, you can, you know.

C

G

A

Yes, it is yes.

G

So when we go to like kubernetes dot, IO I mean click here, so here Chinese guardian and Japanese. They write their name like this.

A

Yeah yeah yeah yeah, like.

G

With Ukrainian and Russia, and they only use their own script- okay. Well, these are languages written in Latin. So there's no such issue with them, but, like the same, is the case with Hindi. We use like our own script, called devnagri in which Hindi is originally written and then there's Latin script, h-I-n-d-I as we diet and like English language.

G

C

G

Need to decide a standard.

C

G

This is decided through, like this config.tml file,.

A

Yeah, let's, let's go see how it looks in there the config.tml, so we can see there's what's nice. Is we get to see the two choices.

G

For example, Korean writes it like this. Okay.

A

G

Just put it right, and so we need to decide like how do we write Hindi, so there's no standard for it. So.

A

I I, when you say, there's no standard.

E

A

It is it: is it possible to put the script in next to Hindi like, like the other ones, have the the like, like? What would it look like if you wanted to do? Yours like um Chinese, did.

G

Yes, it worked like okay, so we actually made this VR. What I'll show.

E

A

Yeah, so we can see how the update is.

C

So files changed we'll get.

G

The change this is how it would look.

A

That is so cool that is so cool, um okay, so so so uh you know here are my thoughts and thank you for pulling this up, because I think this really helped to to make clear what the issue was um uh here here are my thoughts and and can you go back to the page where you actually had the pull down um the pull down? So so, and, and you know the floor is open to the other ones, people's thoughts as well, but what's nice about the top three is?

A

Is it's it's very in it's very helpful to folks who, who perhaps don't speak the the native language right.

E

A

So when, when I look at the first three and I wanna, you know there's been times when I wanted to show say the Korean page or the Chinese page, the the top three help me as as as a non-native speaker to be able to find those. It's it's it's it's a from a consumability and usability perspective. That seems more inclusive to me right.

A

Obviously, if you're a you know, a native uh Hindi speaker, you're, going to be able to recognize it either way and if you're, a native Korean speaker you'd, be able to recognize it either way, but I think for helping the rest of the folks, um uh I I, I I. Personally think it would be a nice best practice to do it. The way the top three have done it um just because it feels more inclusive. To helping everybody understand. Oh what those different options are um I. You know because it, the I, must admit.

A

When I look at the last three um I can get lucky. Polsky I guess is Polish.

A

um If I'm lucky, the one looks like maybe it's Russian and then what was the bottom one I don't even know, and so you know when I look at the bottom. One I'm like I, can't even tell what that is and I'm supposed to know a lot about localization.

A

Maybe the top three is a is, is is a much better best practice like a recommended best practice um and now I want to open up the thoughts to the rest of the folks. Does anybody agree or disagree.

D

uh I I totally agree with that. I think uh this should be both options available in the Latin and in the native one mm-hmm.

A

B

I also agree with that.

A

H

Actually, the reason why Korean teams are using that way is, you could actually saying uh with exactly the same opinion with karate.

H

That's the reason why we put both um to have English native people can read what kind of localization records.

C

A

Okay, absolutely so you know it would, um it would be my suggestion that we make it a strongly recommended best practice um to to use the both the Latin and the script names.

A

um And then you know we can follow up with with the other the other languages, and you know suggest that they might want to update theirs and follow the best practice, um and um you know I can take that action item. Does that make sense to anyone? Does anybody have a concern or disagree.

E

A

I'll take that as a lazy consensus, we think that's a good idea.

A

um Okay, an evolved great issue, fantastic yeah.

E

G

A

You know what to do now right for yours right.

G

A

G

You might want to like update the localization guide to include like this.

A

Yeah, yeah um and I don't know if anybody wants to take that little item as a PR, um but um you know do you have, since you have access to the uh the the the current document, our agenda document? Can you just fill in um uh a link to that PR? So people can see an example of of how the proper way would be to update it and maybe just make a quick little note um or I.

A

Can that um you know recommendation is, is to put both in right um and then you know we can put an action item uh for me to to spread the word. I can spread the word on Slack.

A

um Are you able to do that on above or do you need me to do it? Yeah I'll? Do it? Okay, fantastic.

C

E

C

I cannot give myself an action item. I'll go ahead. I don't want to mess up your typing.

C

Just like, let me help.

A

And if you can just tell you what I'll do the thing, if you can just add the link for the uh the sample, uh that would be helpful.

A

A

Did anybody want the easy, the easy PR of updating the localization guide to to to to to um to to do this um I'm happy to let someone get the easy pull request if they want to try and update the localization guide and I can do the review? Does anybody want the easy PR or did you want me to do it?

A

Okay, sometimes people want easy pull requests.

C

H

No, the one then I can usually have what's that. uh If there is no volunteers, then I can easily have, but.

C

A

Yeah and then I'll.

E

A

I'll, do the review that'd be great. Thank you. Sucker I do appreciate that.

A

A

And then um I'm involved, if you want to go ahead and then continue with your next item, which is the Hindi localization team update, yeah.

G

So the ongoing work on Hindi localization actually.

E

G

Initial ongoing work is almost complete out of the 52 pages that were required for the minimum content. We have successfully localized 50 of them, and the remaining two are under review. So I think we'll be ready to launch very very soon.

A

That's outstanding that is outstanding. uh Congratulations to the whole team for for making really excellent progress.

C

Yeah. Thank you very nice.

A

um Anything else on evolve or is that everything you know? That's everything from my side, great update, thank you so much um and thanks for finding that issue with the inconsistency on the um on the uh language uh names. That's that's. That's awesome, um very cool, um Soco time time for your update.

H

uh Yes, uh I'm so cool I'm, leading Korean, localization team, I hope to share the current status of Queen localization effort.

H

uh First of all in case of Korean localization, we are using Milestone strategy, so we use development experience for Korean team and we keep changing the branch and during the the development range we could development. We try to update outage the content for Koreans, so you can see the first item: Korean population Milestone.

H

So we just finish it. Sorry I will just finish it uh ever one, two three KO one branch and then we just initiated ko2 and you can check the link right for link we use. We are using Milestone. If we see click the link and you can see Korean localization Python and the uh maybe I can can share the screen.

A

Please, yes, it should be available. Please.

H

Okay, thank you.

H

Can you see my screen.

C

H

Yeah I can and we are working on this branch and we are using my phone being my response. We are using, we create um whenever we start new Milestone. We create my response and then you can check uh the important items here and first one is announcing the new grandchild: Korean localization. As you can see, we are using an issue to announce Korean localization and we have some Charities and French Emoji Target, and then we also have uh important issue called outdated, Korean content operating outdated, Korean content mm-hmm.

H

So uh during when, during the last development branch of Korea during we operated the branch uh about one month during one month, English documents keep changing then, uh since we, our Korean document, is based on the previous version of English documents.

H

uh When we change the branch we need to keep.

H

Latest English documents so that.

E

H

Can distinct so we make on a report for that, so during uh ko1 to ko2 Branch those English Parts have been changed. We actually have a escape to make this report. We are our website. We plan website. Repository, have French um right.

A

So this is showing the changes between which branches.

H

A

H

Children and this one.

C

Okay: okay, but.

H

Yeah when we created this one, it is based on Main Branch uh-huh. So this one is the latest.

A

H

This is the latest the.

A

Latest from English correct, the latest right.

H

E

A

And then so you check the latest Branch um a main and see how it was different than your previous, your previous, uh the previous branch, that you you did the translation. That's.

H

Correct so you can check the difference between two branches and it is the list.

A

Save five items.

H

Yes, too, too many okay,.

E

H

Actually, it is another issue, I hope to share this one, to say that there are too much efforts to update outdated Korean documents. uh Maybe uh some of things are just initiative, so they will not be uh why this is very important.

H

I I just counted there. The number of Korean documents in websites it is is over 400 we already translate the 400 and.

C

H

400 documents- if this is quite large many and since we have too many Korean documents, there is high possibility they can be changed the universe.

H

So we tasting uh this situation now, so we are looking for a way to reduce this kind of overalls. It is too much job. Actually, we are keep changing those uh players. It is changes in English. We update it. This content to Korea.

C

H

So we are doing this job in every our expense relationship. Okay,.

C

H

H

A new idea to help us to improve our efforts or jobs, but uh Korean team ourselves try to find any way to reduce this kind of work.

A

Okay, so so one possibility is I guess to put a freeze on the number of files that are translated right now, you're at 429, and maybe maybe you alternate years. Maybe you know, maybe some I don't know. There's some period where all you do is pay down your technical debt with your 85, your 85 pages that need updated and, and you request that people not add new new files um until your technical debt gets down.

A

um Would that help? um You know if you kind of have like alternating releases, where you know if, if if, if the number is too high, then we just say we're not going to add any new files for translation um until we feel comfortable, we've paid down uh the amount of changes, or are you already doing that? Have you already Frozen the number of files yeah.

H

Actually, we don't want to block uh additional contributions from Korean contributors.

H

We hope to they can add more parts more translations for new documents.

H

But actually in case of Korean localization team, they know this kind of job. We are doing this job to make a Korean documents is very polite.

H

But uh General contributor- maybe don't remember.

H

Don't know this kind of situation, yeah.

H

I can learn to to enter so there is.

H

H

In your our members.

A

Okay, it sounds like you're breaking breaking.

H

Up a little bit.

A

Are other people having trouble understanding Soco, at least on my machine? It's the audio is breaking up.

A

Yeah so Soko your audio's been breaking up a little bit, um but but it sounds like you've got some technical debt and you're going to look for ways to to handle the large number of files that need updated. It sounds like.

C

Are you on mute, Circle.

H

I'm sorry I lost connection. That's okay! So.

A

H

I'm looking for a way, we are looking for revenue and we need to discuss maybe in our team, pleasure. Okay, if we found, if you find any good way, I'm going to share uh in this double brand sub.

A

Project that would be appreciated, yeah. It's a good good issue to understand that can occur when you have good success. So sometimes you have very good success. They've translated a large number of files, and now now there's the uh the side effect of that good success of having large number of files that that now need.

E

A

So, what's up yes, so yeah, if you, if you find good Solutions, let us know.

H

H

E

H

There any questions or opinion regarding on that, if not I'm going to uh the next I can mm-hmm okay.

C

H

I hope to share uh some localization activities in chef, Cloud native glossary. There is another project in chain shape this one. It is also another documentation sites and this coordinated.

E

G

H

To compile terms related with Cloud native computing, more easier way, not to technicians to General people, and uh the uh existing maintainers uh requested me to be on a maintainer. For this.

E

Repository nature.

H

So I'm, currently a maintainer of this repository and I'm, currently hurting apps to building localization environments and teams and those things then I experienced it from Cooperative websites and our localization stock projects, better I hope to share the current uh this kind of efforts and, as I know, uh some or many of uh localization teams. Members are involved in this project.

A

um Yeah yeah that glossary looks, looks really valuable and um you're starting to help set it up, so it can be localized as well right um so that that is excellent progress um and um you know Abby as we look at the the cup and it formalizes things probably want to make sure both you know our docs and and and the glossary are sort of both in scope. um Does that make sense Abby to you.

F

Yes, it does sorry: I lost my zoom window for a second there, but uh definitely makes sense. Okay,.

A

So we need to look at that when we go look at the cup. um That is really excellent. uh Soco! That's that's great, so um the glossary looks valuable and it'll look even more valuable, um and um so we might want to just add a little comment in in here that we recommend that the the localization teams uh might want to consider in the future translating velocity as well, just as a recommendation or suggestion does that make sense to everyone.

A

Foreign might be some good low fruit too right. So, if you're looking for um you know, work items for new folks that that might be an easy way to get started too Nikki. um Okay, great great update, Soco anything else.

H

That's all from my site.

A

Okay, um well, that's everything on the official agenda. Are there any other items that people want to discuss.

B

uh Yes, I would like to actually uh discuss it because, uh uh yes, so currently uh I'm just breaking the initiative to work with the Bengali localization or documentation. Actually so, okay, so here's the thing uh so I got I was Guided by uh kind of anubhub and Divya Mohan. So a lot of people guide it so, but I created a PR but I'm a little bit confused. To be honest, so uh because uh can I share my skin and kind of talk with it. Okay, absolutely.

E

C

B

I, don't know that I need to move it well right! Okay, so if we can you see my screen? Yes, okay! So if we talk about this one right, okay, so basically uh um I played a few changes uh to kind of uh I've created a few files. Actually so, first of all read me uh readme bien, uh because so the end actually goes for Bengal, actually so, okay readme file and after that uh I created the owners under the content. Pn uh file.

B

uh Okay, great then, after that few uh changes, actually basically what I noticed in the other contents.

B

Actually, if you talk about Hindi or or others, so they actually have these contents already done so I, basically I've completed I actually created this because of that, first of all, uh I created these files, like uh What, uh like content, PN and owners, and after that content and DN, and after that, common resources and index and after that, uh something like BN docs index, AMD something so there are a lot of strangers and uh there is a thing in the documentation that there are minimum translated files.

B

That needs to be done if you want to actually publish it so, uh okay, so I was a bit confused because uh I thought uh that if I need to actually create my first peer with that content, translated already or I have to work with my Bengali documentation and after a while, when the uh all the required minimum translated files are done, then the website would be actually featuring. My regular documentation. Is it so.

A

Well I mean let's ask the India team since they're just kind of a little bit the Hindi team they're a little bit ahead of you right, so how they got 50 out of 52. um How did they do it? Foreign.

G

Below it, and then we assign the issue to them right and then they localize and make appear okay. So what we have? We have a separate Branch. It's called dev.hi dot, one sorry def Dash 1.22 hi dot one. So we have a separate branch on which we work. When the whole localization process we will complete, then we will actually we have a PR to merge that Branch to Main, and then we will launch the localization. So that's how we are working.

G

Actually the recommended way to work according to the localization guide, kubernetes localization, that that's all, so what I would say is you can like if your team is ready and team actually requires a minimum of two people to like approve contents and preview content, but the the more the better actually right, yeah, the more the better but minimum two for folks you need and then once you have a team, you can have a slab channel of your own. It goes like you when it is talks and then your language string for for you.

G

It will be kubernetes dogs, BN, and then you will have a slack Channel. You can have a branch accepted from Main. You can work on that Branch. When all the work will be done. You can merge it to Main and launch the localization. So that's it.

B

Okay, so okay, great so yeah I have a team actually, so basically I was just kind of uh watching the. What should be done. First of all, so actually Hindi uh actual documentation hasn't been published yet in the kubernetes website right. So uh they are currently working with that. But here's the thing like we if you go to the code and after that we go to the content and we can see like Hindi one. This one is kind of already uh kind of merged or they've been already added. So.

E

B

E

G

B

Created that fear actually yeah. Can you yeah.

G

Yeah, so what happened with Hindi is actually the first attempt at localization Hindi documentation, localizing Hindi documentation was in 2019 like back in 2019 okay. So what happened is due to lack of contributors during that time, the localization like never took off, so the the files on Main Branch, actually, which you see now actually are work done by the 2019 team.

G

Okay, so like that, like fainted kind of then into 2021, be again likely initiated it on a new Branch. So that is why you see some of the contents on Main and some of the contents on like our Dev branch.

G

So that is the that was the issue with Hindi localization. But if you are starting fresh you you will get like a new branch and you can just do.

C

G

It and then merge it to main directly.

B

The required contents and fill it up and after that, I have to prepare to merge it to the main right. Is this how we I should work or right currently.

G

Yeah, so like your country, the contributors will make PR with one page, one page, each PR like that's how we do and then the reviewers will merge those to your Dev branch and once look the whole.

B

G

Me show you the pr to merge like yeah.

C

Branch domain yeah.

B

If you need I can stop sharing, you can share your screen because.

A

Do you want to share your screen, um but I think I think that's making sense right.

C

G

Yeah so I have sent like link to a PR, so you can check that PR. That PR is, will actually merge the in the dev Branch to me once once we are done with the localization I assume right now, it says, do not merge. Yes. Currently it is on hold and draft, and everything like we can.

A

G

So like no one accidentally immersed it, it's on hold it's on draft. It's on like everything pissed off it first, so once we will be done with localization, that PR will be undrafted and hold everything, and then it will be open too much to me and then that's how we will launch.

E

B

Okay, so yeah pretty much helpful, actually because I was pretty much confused while watching that content and Hindi folder, and that was the there's. No, not those contents, actually so I thought maybe I have to create my first pair with those name contents after that I have to work with all of those contents that need to be done so so.

A

B

A

So so, fortunately, uh you know very soon: uh the 50 out of 52 will be 52 out of 52 and it'll get merged and I I understand how that could be misleading or confusing. But it looks like very soon um right on above that'll be fixed right because very soon you'll merge the branch and uh we we shouldn't have that issue anymore.

A

um Great good question very nice all right so now uh Bengali is is back on track right. You know what to do right.

E

A

Fantastic, okay, good questions, good questions, that's awesome! That's exactly what this meeting is for um and.

F

I just had a had a thought is that something that we should clarify is that something that we covered a little bit um I'm, not as familiar with the localization start. Getting you know getting started in the new localization um guide. Is that something that we should clarify um somewhere? I know guys you.

A

Can double check but I think it's written pretty clear in the guide because I think I've said he found it. I think I'm.

F

A

I think I think what happened to you know to our to MD is, unfortunately, he saw something in the code and he figured well they merged that I must need to do. That, too. Is that a fair assessment uh of what happened or no.

B

Yeah because I was checking the files actually in the main, so I saw this happen. So uh in the documentation it does not say that it needs to be done, but it was done so. I was then confused, actually that the documentation stage and one thing- and this is another thing so I actually created PR- so to kind of follow up that content. Actually yeah.

F

Oh okay, sorry I was confused. I thought it was something we might have had to clarify, but thank you. No.

A

No worries, um okay, um any other topics for today.

A

All right, I'll I'll, do the five second countdown then and I'm terrible at it, because I can never do it like everybody else where they can move every digit. Five, four three two one I'm terrible at it. I, don't know why I do that? um Oh, hey um thanks! That's a meeting um again we're available on slack. If you need any follow-up between now and the next meeting, and um uh thanks everybody for coming and attending and participating. This has been uh very, very helpful.

C

All right, bye, everyone.