►
Description
No description was provided for this meeting.
If this is YOUR meeting, an easy way to fix this is to add a description to your video, wherever mtngs.io found it (probably YouTube).
A
Thank
you
good
afternoon,
everyone
and
welcome
to
this
meeting
of
the
corporate
governance
and
audit
committee.
My
name
is
councillor
camilla
maxood
and
I
will
be
chairing
today's
meeting.
Could
I
remind
everyone
we
are
holding
this
meeting
in
a
way
that
is
covered
secure
and
in
accordance
with
the
council's
social
distancing
guidelines,
which
means
everyone
present
is
appropriately
spread
out
and
has
been
allocated
a
specific
seat.
A
Today's
meeting
is
being
live
streamed
on
the
council's
on
the
city
council's
website,
so
that
the
public
can
observe
the
meeting
without
needing
to
be
present.
I
now
invite
members
and
officers
to
introduce
themselves.
Please
remember
to
turn
off
your
microphone
once
you've
introduced
yourself
and
I'll
start
with
kate.
F
Good
afternoon
everybody
gover
almost
from
eastern
hallway.
Thank
you.
A
Moving
on
to
the
agenda
item
number
one.
E
E
I'll
take
that
as
silent,
so
I'll
assume
no
interests.
Apologies
for
absence
agenda
item
five,
a
full
house
chair
with
no
apologies
for
absence.
A
Thank
you,
john
item
number.
Six.
Are
there
are
the
minutes,
a
correct
recording
of
the
meeting
held
on
the
25th
of
june.
B
Good
afternoon
chair,
I
can
confirm
that
we
have
submitted
the
psn
for
the
certification
this
year.
We've
done
that
today,
so
that
has
gone
just
to
make
committee
aware
that
the
cabinet
office
generally
take
four
to
eight
weeks
before
they
respond
to
us.
So
I
will
let
you
know
what
next
committee,
if
we've
had
feedback
from
them,
or
it
may
well
be
the
committee
after
that.
H
All
right,
yeah,
so
agenda
item
a
procurement
procurement
assurance
report
for
20
20
21.
So
this
is
a
report
relating
to
the
council's
procurement
function
and
looks
to
provide
assurance
that
the
council's
arrangements
in
relation
to
procurement
are
up
to
date,
fit
for
purpose
effectively
communicated
and
routinely
complied
with.
H
The
report
also,
as
well
as
looking
back
to
the
last
financial
year,
seeks
to
to
look
forward
and
give
members
an
understanding
of
the
the
work
that's
ongoing
and
that
we're
looking
to
progress
in
the
current
year
with
regard
to
a
review
of
the
whole
procure
to
pay
process.
So
that's
the
the
processes
and
systems
that
the
council's
got
in
place
from
procurement
through
contract
management
to
payment
of
suppliers
in
relation
to
a
particular
contract.
H
What
we're
looking
to
do
is
make
sure
that
we're
continually
improving
and
that
we're
making
those
processes
as
efficient
and
effective
as
possible,
as
part
of
that
procure
to
pay
review,
also
touch
on
the
work
that
we've
been
doing
recently,
or
rather
that's
ongoing
in
relation
to
reviewing
kpis
under
the
council's
procurement
strategy
and
the
recent
review
that
we
asked
the
local
government
association
to
undertake
with
regard
to
procurement
practices
within
the
council.
H
So
just
looking
back
to
last
year,
I
think
just
to
to
note
to
begin
with
that.
Each
directorate's
accountable
for
the
procurements
that
they
need
in
relation
to
the
outcomes
that
they're
responsible
for
but
procurement
and
commercial
services
are
there
to
provide
support
in
relation
to
complex
procurement
activity
and
also
to
support
as
well
in
terms
of
making
sure
that
individuals
within
services
understand
the
the
procurement
processes
that
they
ought
to
be.
Following.
H
Last
year,
there
was
992
million
pounds
worth
of
external
spend,
which
is
a
an
increase
on
previous
years,
but
that's
largely
accounted
for
because
of
covert
related
grant.
Funding
that
came
in
during
the
year
that
we
that
we
spent
last
year
as
we
do
every
year,
we
reviewed
the
council's
contract
procedure
rules
and
we
strengthened
procurement
controls
within
those
rules.
We
also
incorporated
requirements
with
regard
to
seeking
social
value
from
from
procurement
activity
and
in
order
to
try
and
deliver
additional
savings
from
procurement.
H
We
also
looked
to
change
the
emphasis
of
the
evaluation
process
for
procurement,
so
that
it
splits
the
quality
and
the
price.
Once
you
get
through
the
quality
threshold,
the
total
the
the
contract
is
then
awarded
based
solely
on
the
the
the
cheapest
price.
H
We
don't
have
that
as
an
absolute
requirement
on
all
procurements,
but
that
should
be
the
starting
point
when
considering
the
appropriate
evaluation
methodology
in
terms
of
compliance
which
the
committee's
been
so
very
keen
to
to
to
to
keep
up
to
date
with
previously,
there
were
no
procurement
challenges
in
the
in
the
last
year,
in
terms
of
on
contract,
spend
we've
got
96.42
of
spend
in
2020.
H
21.
was
on
contract,
which
was
an
increase
from
95.6
in
the
previous
year,
and
it
follows
a
general
trend
of
increasing
spend
that
is
on
contract
in
terms
of
waivers
of
cprs.
H
H
I
touched
a
moment
ago
on
the
lga
peer
review
that
we've
we
invited
recently
and
I'll,
come
on
to
that
in
a
bit
more
detail
in
a
moment,
but
one
of
the
one
of
the
comments
that
was
made-
and
you
know
I'm
raising
it
in
order
to
support
the
sort
of
the
insurance
position
is
that
it
was
noted
that
there's
an
outstanding
achievement
with
regard
to
compliance.
H
So
I
think,
that's,
I
think
useful
for
the
committee
to
be
aware
of,
and
then
the
final
point
looking
back
to
last
year
and
what
we
did
we
put
in
place
a
framework
with
regard
to
social
value,
and
that
framework
includes
a
social
value
board.
That's
got
membership
from
services
across
the
council.
H
It's
chaired
by
director
of
resources,
we've
also
developed
social
value
guidance
for
commissioners,
so
that
they
can
effectively
embed
social
value
into
their
procurement
activity,
and
we've
got
identified
members
of
the
team
in
procurement
and
commercial
services
who
are
available
to
provide
support
to
commissioners
with
regard
to
social
value
and,
and
that
itself
is
supported
by
an
external
contract.
H
We've
got
with
an
organization
called
social
value
portal
who
are
able
to
a
support
in
terms
of
making
sure
that
we're
adopting
social
value
into
our
procurement
documentation,
but
they
also
support
by
evaluating
social
value
proposals
that
are
put
forward
by
tenderers,
and
they
also
are
able
to
monitor
social
value
and
at
page
25
of
the
pack
in
the
appendix
to
this
report.
H
There
is
a
an
extract
from
the
social
value
portal
website
that
that
sets
out
the
social
value
achieved
to
date.
Looking
forward
to
the
well
the
current
year
and
and
beyond.
As
I
mentioned
earlier,
we
are
reviewing
the
totality
of
our
processes
and
systems
relating
to
social
value.
H
H
As
part
of
that
review,
we
asked
the
local
government
association
to
arrange
a
peer
review.
We
had
colleagues
from
procurement
in
essex,
county
council
and
star,
which
is
a
regional
collaboration
of
authorities
in
greater
manchester.
H
We
also
had
director
responsible
for
transformation
from
manchester
and
we
had
exec
member
from
wigan
council
who
were
part
of
that
peer
review.
I've
seen
a
draft
of
the
report,
but
I
only
got
the
final
report
through
yesterday.
So
that's
why
it's
not
included
in
the
pack
and
there's
a
couple
of
tweaks
that
have
been
made
to
the
draft
recommendations.
So,
for
example,
the
previous
recommendations
haven't
included
anything
about
opportunities
for
implementing
new
technology
to
improve
efficiency.
H
So
that's
now
been
corrected,
and,
and
so
what
I
will
be
doing
on
the
back
of
the
recommendations-
is
producing
an
action
plan
and
that
action
plan,
I
think,
will
have
two
elements
to
it.
Really
one
will
be
immediate
actions
that
we
can
undertake
and
the
other
will
be
sort
of
longer
term
actions.
H
So,
for
example,
with
regard
to
immediate
actions,
we
can
look
to
free
up
some
resource
that
we've
currently
got
in
procurement,
commercial
services
to
focus
on
delivering
additional
value
so,
for
example,
supporting
the
social
value
team
and
also
putting
together
the
sort
of
specification
for
new
technology
that
we
might
want
to
implement
and
focusing
on
opportunities
for
savings
from
procurement
activity
and
then,
in
the
longer
term,
as
part
of
the
the
procure
to
pay
review
is
part
of
the
core
business
transformation
and
we're
just
starting
on
the
procurement
process
for
a
partner
to
help
deliver
improved
systems
which
will,
as
I
said
earlier,
hopefully
we'd,
anticipate,
make
the
procurement
processes
more
efficient
and
more
automated.
H
That's
not
going
to
be
an
immediate
thing
that
we
can
do.
I
think
the
procurement
process
is
anticipating
it'll,
be
so
this
time
next
year,
before
we've
completed
that
procurement
and
then
we'll
be
embedded,
the
new
systems
from
then
on.
C
Chad,
I've
got
three
questions.
I
don't
know
if
you
want
me
to
fire
all
three
off
or
go
through
them,
one
by
one
and
I'll
go
through
them
one
by
one.
The
the
first
one
relates
to
page
24
and
the
reference
to
kovid
19,
and
I
do
appreciate
that
this
is
just
a
pretty
a
much
more
complicated
situation,
but
we
know
that
the
national
system
of
procurement
and
provision
of
ppe
was
kind
of
characterized
by
chaos,
incompetence,
waste
on
an
industrial
scale
and
some
rather
dodgy
allocations
of
contracts.
C
H
Thank
you
in
terms
of
the
impact
on
procurement
activity.
You
know
we
did
have
to
dedicate
additional
resource
to
procure
additional
ppe
equipment
that
we
weren't
necessarily
expecting,
but
we
had
a
ppe
framework
in
place
that
we
were
able
to
utilize
and
good
relationships
with
suppliers
on
the
framework
enabled
us
to
procure
additional
ppe
through
that
framework.
H
We'd
also
managed
to
maintain
good
relationships
with
unsuccessful
tenderers,
so
we
were
able
to
use
the
sort
of
the
urgent
exceptions
within
our
cprs
and
also
procurement
rights
to
be
able
to
go
back
to
those
other
suppliers
that
have
previously
been
unsuccessful
to
build
those
build
on
the
relationships
that
we
had
and
procure
additional
resource
ppe
through
them.
H
C
Okay,
thanks
jeff,
I
think
we
could
probably
have
got
more
detail,
but
I'm
not
going
to
pursue
any
more
of
that.
My
second
question
relates
to
page
25
in
the
reference
to
social
value
and
as
we've
been
told,
we
have
got
this
sort
of
dashboard
and
I'm
not
always
at
my
best
on
a
friday
afternoon
or
at
any
time
as
I
get
older,
but
looking
at
these
figures,
I
can't
work
out
whether
they
represent
a
good
bad
or
in
different
set
of
figures
and
progress.
C
H
Yeah,
I
think
to
to
you
know
begin
with
social
value
is
definitely
a
work
in
progress
and
there's
a
lot
of
a
lot
more,
that
we
can
be
doing
to
embed
social
value
across
the
council
and
make
sure
that
it
is
being
taken
into
account
in
all
our
procurement
activity.
H
In
terms
of
the
the
the
extract
from
the
dashboard
that
we've
included
here,
I
suppose,
to
to
start
with.
H
We've
only
been
putting
the
contracts
through
social
value
portal
for
for
a
relatively
short
period
of
time,
so
that's
reflected
in
the
in
the
sort
of
relatively
small
number
of
contracts,
but
in
terms
of
contract
value,
you're
talking
about
10
million
pounds,
which
is
a
not
an
insignificant
sum,
and
in
terms
of
the
extra
value
that
that's
been
committed
through
those
contracts,
that's
not
that
it's
actually
been
delivered
yet
because
it's
going
to
be
something
that
comes
over
the
term
of
those
contracts
which
might
be
three
or
five
years
you're.
H
Looking
at
you
know
that
217
000
figure,
that's
an
additional
two
percent
of
value
on
the
overall
value
of
the
contract
in
terms
of
what's
actually
been
delivered.
Today
again,
this
is
just
sort
of
a
relatively
short
period
where
we've
been
reporting,
it's
that
sort
of
one
thousand
pound
figure
in
the
top
left-hand
corner.
I
think
what
we
would
propose
to
do
is
to
continue
with
this
dashboard
reporting
set
some
set
some
sort
of
foundation
levels
and
then
look
to
improve
on
that
year
and
year
as
we
go
through.
C
Okay,
thank
you
for
that
this.
This
is
a
matter
and
obviously
you
you're
new
to
the
committee
that
we
have
revisited
on
a
number
of
occasions,
and
I
don't
see
any
reference
in
the
work
program
to
us
revisiting
this,
and
I
think
it
might
be
something
that
we
could
do
after
a
certain
amount
of
time,
because
obviously,
it's
very
difficult
to
judge
so
early
in
the
day.
My
third
question
is:
could
we
could
we
have
a
copy?
Sorry,
I'm
on
page
31,
the
brexit
procurement
regulations
review.
C
Could
we
have
a
copy
of
the
response
that
went
in
because
when
I
see-
and
I
suppose,
I'm
being
party
political
to
a
degree
here-
that
processes
have
been
bogged
down
in
bureaucratic
process
driven
procedures?
We
need
to
abandon
these
complicated
and
stifling
rules
and
unleash
the
potential
of
public
procurement
fills
me
with
terror.
H
Yeah,
absolutely
so
that's
just
a
that's
a
direct
quote
from
the
green
paper
that
was
that
was
published,
but
more
than
happy
to
share
the
response
that
we
put
together
and
and
sent
to
government
and
we're
expecting
that
the
the
sort
of
updated
legislation
will
be
produced
in
the
next
calendar
year,
and
certainly
I
anticipate
that
this
time
next
year,
when
we're
providing
the
report
I'll,
be
able
to
provide
a
bit
more
information
about
the
the
changes
that
are
actually
detailed
in
there.
H
Sorry
could
I
just
pick
up
on
the
social
value
points
as
well,
and
we
do
report
annually
on
spend
with
local
suppliers
and
smes
and
that's
included
in
the
report
as
well,
and
that's
been
sort
of
a
continual
increasing
trend
each
year
in
terms
of
how
much
we
do
spend
locally,
I'm
just
trying
to
find
where
it
is
in
the
papers.
H
E
Yes,
sir,
first
I'd
like
to
welcome
the
the
references
to
internal
reviews
and
the
cycle
of
control
and
particularly
peer
reviews
and
other
authorities.
It
seems
to
me
something
which
is
very
valuable
and
we
could
do
more
of
it,
and
so
just
welcome
that
I'd
like
to
ask
you
about
the
balance
between
elected
members
and
officers
in
this
process.
I
think
both
groups
of
people
need
to
be
there,
but
how
do
you
maintain
an
adequate
balance?
H
Yeah,
so
in
terms
of
the
lga
review,
both
council,
lewis
and
councillor
scopes
were
involved
in
that
review,
given
their
involvement
in
procurement
over
the
last
few
years
and
with
regard
to
the
recommendations
and
the
action
plan
that
we're
going
to
bring
forward
as
a
consequence
of
the
recommendations,
I
would
intend
to
bring
that
back
to
this
committee
sometime
in
the
autumn.
I
think
we're
struggling
to
identify
exactly
which
which
meeting
it
will
be
at
this
time,
but
it
certainly
will
be
at
some
point
in
the
autumn.
E
A
Counseling
with
just
to
let
you
know,
we
do
have
a
procurement
update
in
in
the
november
meeting,
all
right.
L
Thanks
chad,
some
of
my
questions
have
been
answered
from
councillor
trussell's
question,
particularly
the
the
brexit
procurement
regulations
review,
which
filled
me
with
as
much
dread.
It
looks
like
it
could
be
a
charter
for
a
free
fall.
L
If
we're
not
careful,
so
we
do
need
to
respond
properly
to
that
on
social
value,
just
to
try
to
get
better
get
a
view
of
this
is
this
something
that
goes
in
as
a
condition
that
that
contractors
have
to
show
social
value
or
is
it
an
extra
that
you
know
will
add
brownie
points
to
their
to
their
bid
if
they,
if
they
put
something
in
and
and
perhaps
you
could
just
for
the
benefit
of
the
committee
or
benefit
from
me
anyway?
Just
give
some
examples
of
that.
L
How
is
that
compatible
with
the
other
policy
you're
talking
about
which
effectively
is
priced
first?
How
is
the
what's
the
hierarchy
of
of
doing
that
and
then
a
related
question
in
a
way-
and
I
I
think
we've
asked
this
before
and
it's
not
really
covered
in
the
report.
L
It
might
be
deliberately
not
covered
in
the
report,
but
again
it
comes
back
to
value
for
money,
and
that
is
the
comparison
between
what
we,
what
services
spend
externally
and
what
services
spend
internally
on
internal
services,
so
things
like
leech
building
services,
parks
and
countryside,
the
civic
enterprise
team,
so
sort
of
things,
because
I'm
sure
many
members
are
involved
with
things
like
housing,
advisory
panels
and
ward-based
initiatives
very
often
get
told.
Well,
the
only
way
you
can
we
can
deliver.
L
This
is
if
it's
in
internal
delivery
parts
of
the
countryside
particularly
and
leads
building
services,
and
that
might
not
always
be
the
best
value.
So
I
just
wonder
if
we
could
address
that
as
well.
Thank
you,
chair.
H
So
in
terms
of
whether
or
not
social
value
is
a
condition
or
an
extra,
we
we've
got
the
local
themes,
outcomes
and
measures.
So
there's
a
national
set
of
things,
outcomes
and
measures
that
look
to
put
a
financial
value
on
different
social
value.
H
That's
delivered
and
we've
we've
produced
elite,
specific
version
in
consultation
with
other
organizations,
in
leagues
and
with
colleagues
in
leeds
and
with
colleagues
across
the
council,
and
so
we
include
the
leads
specific
toms
as
part
of
our
tender
documents
and
commissioners
for
a
particular
contract
are
invited
as
part
of
the
sort
of
the
initial
process
of
setting
up
their
procurement
to
consider
which
of
those
toms
are
most
important
for
their
particular
contract.
H
So
it
might
be
that
they
identify
opportunities
for,
for
example,
work
experience
or
for
new
job
creation
and
and
what
have
you
or
it
might
be,
that
another
contract
could
focus
more
on
sustainability
opportunities
so
that
that's
up
to
the
commissioners,
with
support
from
pax
and
with
support
from
social
value
portal
to
consider
which
areas
they
would
wish
to
to
highlight
in
terms
of
whether
it's
a
condition
there's
10
percent
is
is,
is
the
total
evaluation
weighting
that
we
suggest
should
be
put
towards
social
value
elements?
H
So
there's
an
incentive
there
on
contractors
to
include
social
value
and
when
evaluating
that
10,
you
know
we
want
to
be.
You
know,
have
some
degree
of
assurance
that
they're
actually
going
to
be
able
to
deliver
that
and
what
that's,
where
social
value
portal
are
very
helpful.
H
So,
typically
it's
an
extra
you
get
additional
marks
as
part
of
the
evaluation.
If
you
put
more
social
value
commitments
into
your
tender
but
on
a
contract
by
contract
basis,
it
might
be
that
a
particular
commissioner
wants
a
particular
identified
social
value
opportunity
to
be
a
condition
and
that
that's
a
sort
of
a
pass
fail
element.
H
So
the
answer
is,
it
could
be
either,
but
the
starting
point
that
I'd
anticipate
typically,
is
that
it's
an
extra
and
in
terms
of
I
suppose,
jump,
jumping
a
little
bit
onto
your
query
about
sort
of
the
price
first
hierarchy
it
is.
It
shouldn't
be
the
case
that
social
value
impacts
on
on
price.
You
know
it's
part
of
the
overall
procurement,
so
so
social
value
should
very
much
be,
from
our
perspective,
an
extra
that
we're
getting
above
and
beyond
and
from
a
from
a
a
provider's
perspective.
H
If
they
start
pricing
in
the
extra
social
value
commitments
that
they
include,
then
they'll
be
negatively
evaluated
for
price.
So
really
they
shouldn't
be
pricing,
those
in
as
an
extra
either,
and
I
think
in
terms
of
government
review
and
analysis
of
social
value-
that's
been
achieved
through
public
sector
contracts.
I
think
typically,
the
response
is
that,
by
focusing
on
social
value
and
trying
to
drive
additional
value
from
your
contracts,
you
shouldn't
be
increasing
the
price
of
those
contracts.
H
You
shouldn't
anticipate
seeing
those
it's
not
a
zero,
so
some
game
in
that
respect,
and
certainly
that
was
the
feedback
we
got
from
lga
as
part
of
the
peer
review
that
they
did
recently
that
we
should
be,
we
shouldn't
be
afraid
of
pushing
social
volume
more
because,
typically,
you
don't
see
that
coming
through
as
a
resulting
in
an
increase
in
price
in
terms
of
examples
of
social
value.
H
I
think
one
of
the
most
obvious
and
easy
examples
is
companies
providing
volunteering
opportunities,
so
you
know
their
staff
who
they
make
them
available
to
to
work
in
volunteering
across
leeds
and
what
we're?
What
we're
in
the
process
of
doing,
is
working
with
the
third
sector
to
come
up
with
a
pool
of
opportunities
for
people.
So
what
we
don't
want
is
people
volunteering
for
something
that
doesn't
it
actually
occurred
with
our
priorities
or
the
third
sector
priorities
in
leeds.
H
So
we're
trying
to
come
up
with
this
pool
of
opportunities
within
the
third
sector
that
we
can
actually
deliver
some
real
value
from
from
volunteering,
other
examples
of
sustainability.
We
had
some
schools
rebuilds
a
few
years
ago,
where
I
think
it
was
like
99
of
the
waste
was
recycled
or
reused,
which
was
really
positive
and
then
sort
of
sticking
on
the
theme
of
schools.
H
We
had
one
of
our
contractors
recently
who,
during
the
pandemic,
was
able
to
provide
a
number
of
laptops
for
for
children
in
in
the
communities
so
that
they
were
able
to
do
their
schooling
at
home
when
they
weren't
able
to
come
into
school.
I
think
that's
all
the
questions.
If
there
was
anything
else
to
follow
up.
L
Sorry
jeff,
my
second
question
about
use
of
internal
resources.
H
Sorry
yeah,
so
in
terms
of
the
processes
that
we've
got
in
place
at
the
outset
of
a
procurement,
we
should
be
undertaking
an
analysis
of
whether
we've
got
any
internal
service
providers
who
are
able
to
provide
that
particular
that
particular
service
that
we're
looking
for
it
doesn't
necessarily
mean
that
you
have
to
use
those
internal
service
providers,
but
they
should
certainly
be
the
starting
point.
If
there's
a
business
case
for
going
externally,
then
that
needs
to
be
demonstrated.
L
The
impression
I
get
as
an
elected
member
and
I
don't
know
other
elected
members,
the
same
is
that
vision
play
equipment
is
wholly
down
to
parkland
countryside
for
them
not
just
the
purchase
of
it,
but
the
installation
and
the
management
and
the
project
management
of
a
scheme
and
there's
no,
no
negotiation
about
that.
So
how
many?
How
often
do
you
come
into
that
sort
of
conflict
or
or
a
competitive
environment
where
you
have
an
internal
provider
and
an
external
provider,
internal
service
provider
and
external
contractor?
L
Is
it
a
common
thing,
or
do
people
tend
just
to
go
with
the
internal
provider,
which
is
my
impression
it's
almost
like.
That's
the
that's!
What
we
do.
H
Well,
yeah,
the
starting
point
under
our
contract
procedure
rules
is
that
we
should
be
using
internal
providers
in
the
first
instance,
if
not
not
not
wanting
to
focus
on
parks
and
countryside.
But
if
there
was
an
issue
with
an
internal
provider,
say,
for
example,
they
hadn't
delivered
previously
or
they
were
proving
more
costly
or
or
anything
like
that.
It's
then
to
build
a
business
case
to
go
externally
on
that
basis,
but
the
first
starting
point
should
be
you're
using
the
internal
service
provider
and
that
might
be
parks
and
countryside.
It
might
be
lbs.
H
You
know
those
kind
of
you
know
catering
as
well.
Things
like
that.
E
Thanks
jeff,
my
first
one
is
a
supplement
to
council
trust
wells
about.
I
think,
asking
about
apparently
rash
government
expenditure
on
ppe
and
associated
things
in
the
last
18
months.
Can
we
study
shows
that
none
of
that
expense
was
certainly
difficult
for
us
to
defend,
landed
on
our
revenue?
Account
that
was
all
centralist
suffered?
Was
it,
I
hope
just
say
yes,.
E
Know
I'll
just
I'll
make
sure
that
the
audio
question
is
I'm
watching
on
the
expansion
we've
incurred
had
been
incurred
as
a
result
of
government
difficult
to
defend
contracts.
E
E
H
That's
fine.
The
council's
got
its
own
ppe
contracts
in
place
that
we
utilized
last
year.
As
far
as
I'm
aware,
there
was
no
utilization
of
any
central
government
contracts
in
that
regard,
but
I'm
happy
to
go
away
and
double
check
if
that's
helpful,
for
you.
E
That's
my
mom
two
minutes
on
it,
but
if
the
answer
is
yes,
that's
fine.
Can
I
ask
also,
if
there's
anywhere,
narcissistic
the
reason
for
waivers
once
a
week
we
waive
our
cprs
if
somebody
analyze
those
tell
us
why
we
think
that's
appropriate
that
some
of
the
officers
do
that.
There's
also
mentioned
later
on
the
paper
about
extensions
to
contracts.
E
H
Yeah,
sorry,
with
regard
to
waivers,
in
terms
of
the
reasons,
I
think
what
we
typically
find
is
that
the
majority
of
those
sort
of
60
waivers
that
I've
referred
to
there-
probably
weren't
needed
in
the
first
place.
H
So,
for
example,
there'd
be
a
low,
relatively
low
value
in
the
context
of
the
council's
cpr,
so
less
than
25
000
pounds
were
a
direct
award
could
have
been
made
in
any
event,
but
the
individuals
concerned
within
the
services
have
gone
through
the
process
of
putting
away
the
report
in
place
and
a
waiver
decision
in
in
place,
and
one
of
the
I
suppose
issues
is
that,
despite
including
in
the
cprs
that
prior
to
implementing
a
waiver
decision,
the
individuals
should
come
and
consult
with
procurement,
commercial
services.
H
First,
that
doesn't
happen
in
in
every
circumstance.
So
you
do
find
that
some
waivers
are.
Our
decisions
are
taken
where
they're
not
required.
H
So
with
regard
to,
I
suppose
that
the
point
you're
making
about
that's-
you
know
more
than
one
a
week
that
the
truth
of
the
situation
is
that
the
vast
majority
of
those
weren't
actually
required
in
the
first
place.
There's
enough
flexibility
in
cprs.
So
I
think,
there's
you
know
a
continuing
task
for
procurement,
commercial
services
to
make
sure
that
we're
educating
colleagues
making
sure
that
they're
aware
and
and
the
relevant
trainings
there
and
also
getting
the
the
message
across
that
before
you
actually
go
and
take
a
decision
with
regards
to.
H
E
H
H
C
Thank
you
chair.
I
I
I'm
grateful
to
council
herons
for
identifying
my
total
failure
to
follow
up
on
one
of
the
components
of
one
of
my
earlier
questions
and
I
suppose,
try
and
pray
in
plain
language
is:
did
we
as
an
authority,
incur
any
additional
expenditure
for
providing
pp
that
should
have
come
through
national
sources,
either
ourselves
or
partner
organizations
like
the
nhs?
H
E
E
Sorry,
just
a
a
quick
one
on
page
25,
I
think
you
refer
to
the
the
social.
E
H
So
social
value
portal
is
a
separate
organization.
It's
a
separate
company.
The
individuals
who
are
involved
in
social
value
portal
have
got
extensive
experience
on
social
value
matters
and
supporting
government
in
developing
these
national
themes,
outcomes
and
measures
that
I
mentioned
earlier
in
terms
of
our
relationship,
we
procured
social
value
portal
under
a
contract
to
provide
support
to
us
it's
a
three-year
contract
and
we're,
I
think,
probably
about
just
over
15
months
into
that
contract.
H
So
we
will
be
in
the
not
too
distant
future,
reviewing
future
opportunities
and
and
options
with
regard
to
how
we
deliver
and
monitor
social
value,
and
it
might
be
that
we
continue
with
social
value
portal.
It
might
be
that
we
do
something
different.
H
So
the
council,
the
cost
of
the
council,
is
about.
I
think
it's
about
seven
and
a
half
thousand
pounds
a
year.
So
it's
not
it's
not
very
much,
but
what
how
social
value
portal
price
it
for
us?
They
do
it
differently
for
different
authorities
and
we've
done
an
analysis
of
the
different
options.
H
A
Is
that
all
right,
counselor
foster
any
other
questions?
Kieran?
Can
I
ask
a
few
questions?
Please
para
4.9
of
the
appendix
page
26
refers
to
the
replacement
for
y
or
your
tender
to
go
live
in
january
22..
A
H
Yes,
so
we've
currently
got
our
existing
e-tendering
platform
and
we've
concluded
the
procurement
for
a
new
e-tendering
platform,
which
is
the
one
that
goes
live
at
the
end
of
this
calendar
year.
So
there
is
a
degree
of
overlap
between
the
two
we've
got
and
we
can
run
the
two
systems
alongside
each
other
in
order
to
make
sure
that
staff
are
fully
trained
and
understand
how
to
use
the
system
once
the
other
system
disappears.
A
Page
23
and
27
para
2.6
and
4.12
of
the
appendix
refers
to
the
opportunity
to
improve
connectivity
between
procurement
and
commercial
service
and
colleagues
undertaking
procurement
activity
within
directorates.
Will
this
form
part
of
the
focus
in
the
action
plan
you
propose.
H
Yes,
it
will,
in
terms
of
immediate
opportunities
for
improving
connectivity.
Well,
I
suppose,
just
to
just
as
a
starting
point.
Procurement
commercial
services
provide
support
to
colleagues
across
the
council.
There
are
some
procurement
staff
who
are
currently
embedded
in
services
so,
for
example,
highways
dis
and
housing,
but
for
the
rest
of
the
procurement
activity
across
the
council,
procurement,
commercial
services
is
available
to
to
to
provide
support
in
that
regard,
and
we
also
do
work
closely
with
colleagues
in
in
those
other
service
areas.
H
Who've
got
their
own
procurement
staff
embedded,
but
we
can
certainly
improve
that
connectivity
and
one
of
the
proposals
that
we've
got
is
a
12-month
pilot
for
a
commercial
business
partner
to
actually
work
within
services
and
to
provide
that
connectivity
that
you
talk
about
between
packs
and
between
the
services,
so
that,
and
also,
I
suppose,
help
foster
a
relationship
where
it's
kind
of
doing
with,
rather
than
doing
two.
H
So
that's
one
of
the
immediate
things
that
we're
doing,
and
hopefully
that
pilot
you
know
demonstrates
some
some
value
in
terms
of
outputs
from
contracts,
but
also
in
terms
of
savings,
and
we
can
put
together
a
business
case
to
to
roll
that
pilot
out
for
the
longer
future
and
also
to
apply
to
other
directorates
as
well
and
then
in
in
the
longer
term.
H
As
part
of
the
procure
to
pay
review,
we
are
reviewing
systems
and
processes
across
the
council
to
try
and
make
sure
that
it
is
all
joined
up
and
it
it
might
be
that
there's
a
review
of
you
know
where
people
sit
on
the
structure
or
that
we
have
kind
of
what
referred
to,
as
you
know,
dotted
lines
between
different
people
in
different
service
areas.
But
that's
part
of
the
wider
review
that
will
come
in
the
next
12
months
or
so.
A
And
the
last
one
karen
paragraph,
three
page
23
of
your
report
suggests
that
resource
should
should
be
sorry,
should
focus
on
delivering
greater
strategic
value
from
procurement.
What
assurances
are
you
able
to
give
the
committee
that
that
this
refocusing
will
not
detract
from
the
culture
of
compliance?
Please.
H
H
I
think
currently
we're
thinking
two
or
three
fte
from
from
that
group,
to
focus
more
on
making
sure
that
we
can
embed
social
value
better
into
into
all
our
procurements
to
working
on
specifying
the
new
system
that
we're
looking
to
to
put
in
place
to
help
deliver
procurement
activity
and
also
to
deal
with,
spend
and
also
to
focus
on
savings,
which
you
know,
obviously
an
immediate
priority
for
the
council
and
so
to
help
get
the
data
that
will
inform
you
know
which
contracts
we
should
be
looking
at
to
to
identify
savings
from.
H
But
what
we
won't
be
doing
is
you
know
getting
rid
of
that
team
completely.
The
vast
majority
of
that
team
will
still
continue
to
focus
on
compliance
and
and
making
sure
that
spend
is
still
on
contract,
monitoring,
waivers
and
I'll
be
reporting
back
to
this
board
as
well.
Sorry,
this
committee,
as
well
about
that
in
in
the
duke
in
due
course.
B
So
this
is
the
annual
decision
report
that
members
have
come
to
know
and
love.
It
covers
the
the
period
from
april
2020
to
march
21,
but
I've
also
added
in
the
figures
for
the
first
quarter
of
this
year,
so
that
you
can
see
that
we're
starting
to
move
on
past
the
emergency
period
of
covered
and
the
statement
of
internal
control
in
in
full
glorious
technicolor
sets
out
the
full
cycle
of
internal
control.
For
you
and
I'm
not
going
to
reiterate
the
the
contents
of
that
report
because
you've
had
the
opportunity
to
read
it.
A
Sorry,
can
I
ask
para
22
on
power,
23
page
43
of
the
appendix
refer
to
the
importance
of
arrangements
to
ensure
decision
makers
have
access
to
professional
advice
and
guidance
in
relation
to
their
decisions.
Are
you
able
to
provide
assurance
that
this
advice
and
guidance
is
available
and
accessible?
Thank
you.
B
There
is
a
cohort
of
staff
who
are
there
to
give
advice
and
guidance,
so
obviously
staffing
in
legal,
give
up
by
somebody.
Half
the
city
system
staff
in
finance,
give
advice
on
behalf
of
the
chief
finance
officer.
We've
got
colleagues
in
human
resources.
B
A
Okay,
sorry,
john
ailingworth.
Sorry
you
want
to
ask
something.
E
Two
minds
was
to
ask
the
question
a
lot
and
it's
about
revisiting
decisions.
One
of
the
things
which
it's
often
struck
me
that
leads
isn't
particularly
good
at
is
going
back
to
review
a
decision
after
the
event,
I
could
think
of
policy
changes
which
didn't
have
the
desired
effect
and
which
would
the
decision
maker
never
really
knew
that
it
hadn't
worked.
E
I
felt
at
the
time
and
I
think,
specific
examples
of
what
I'd
pulled
together,
but
basically
going
back
to
look
at
the
planning
consent
that
we've
agreed
to
revisit
the
policy
that
we've
done
on
cleansing.
For
example,
I
think
there's
lots
and
lots
of
examples
around
the
authority
where
full
of
good
intentions,
we
did
our
best,
but
it
didn't
work,
and
it
seems
to
me
that
we
will
benefit
from
revisiting.
B
I
think
the
the
answer
to
that
somewhat
lies
in
scrutiny.
Yeah
and
the
role
of
of
this
committee
is
rather
more
about
whether
there
are
arrangements
and
and
processes
in
place
and
scrutiny
is
more
about
the
the
choices
and
the
outcomes
from
those
arrangements
and
processes.
B
So
so
it
would
be
use
the
scrutiny
board
procedure
rules
make
that
reference
through
the
scrutiny
chairs
to
be
considered
through
the
the
appropriate
board's
agenda.
If
there
is
a
particular
area
of
concern,
counsellor.
E
The
scrutiny
boards
center
fill
up
their
agenda
in
the
spring
early
summer
and
then
have
a
rush
to
complete
it
by
the
end
of
the
municipal
year
and
the
it's
actually
quite
difficult
to
inject
anything
else
into
the
program,
because,
if
you
haven't
actually
got
the
pot
on
the
boil
in
in
may
or
june,
you're
not
going
to
get
on
the
agenda
and
that
that
is
silly.
A
L
It's
going
to
be,
they
were
currently
actually
supporting
what
john
says
institution
and
it's
a
question.
I
I
often
ask
of
audit
of
how
you
close
the
loop
that
particularly
on
projects
that
you
know
when
do
you
inspect
what
you
expected
and
scoot
your
board
is
a
is
a
very
it's
almost
a
nuclear
option
when
you
go
to
scrutiny,
board
and
scrutiny
board
have
to
consider
it
at
that,
because
there's
so
much
else
to
do,
but
it
it's
doing
it
as
a
routine.
L
I
think
that's
the
and
I
have
it
built
into
our
processes
and-
and
I
I
would
tend
to
agree
that
you
know
I
mean
I
have
a.
I
have
a
a
hobby
horse
about
the
in-cab
technology
for
our
refuge
collection,
which
goes
back
to
from
probably
seven
eight
years
and
it
was
going
to
be.
It
was
going
to
solve
all
the
issues
that
we
had
about
miss
bins
and
all
these
other
issues
and
we're
still
getting
those
issues
and
we're
still
getting
the
excuse.
L
Oh
well,
that's
a
it's
a
new
crew.
They
didn't
know
that
they
didn't
know
the
route,
whereas
this
the
in-cab
technology
was
supposed
to
take
down.
You
you,
you
know
a
sat
nav
wouldn't
direct
the
crew
until
it
didn't
really
matter,
and
that's
one
that
I
I
will
use
an
example
quite
often
that
we
know,
but
I'm
sure,
there's
lots
of
others
where
we've
not
closed
that
loop
and
inspected.
What
we
expected.
D
You
chair
and
no
disrespect
to
any
scrutiny
chairs,
but
I've
been
being
the
scrutiny
chair
for
many
years
and
also
this
board
that
scrutiny.
You
can
put
something
on
the
agenda
and
it's
not
decided
at
the
beginning.
As
you
know,
john,
you
we've
been
on
board
together,
so
I
would
think
if
something
was
put
to
the
chair
that
they
wanted
to
look
at
this
and
it
was
important
which
most
things
are
that
are
on
scrutiny
or
should
be.
Then
there
should
be
no
issue
with
having
that
a
one-off
agenda
item.
A
Thank
you
check.
Thank
you
councillor,
graham
okay,
can
we
move
on?
Please
does
the
committee
agree
the
recommendations
set
out
on
page
33
of
the
agenda
pack
considering
note
the
positive
assurances
set
out
in
the
decision-making
statement
of
internal
control
attached
as
appendix
say
to
the
report
request
that
performance
monitoring
in
respective
decision
taking
taken
under
urgency
procedures
and
subject
to
calling
should
be
reported
courtly
through
the
internal
audit
update
report.
B
So
this
report
presents
to
committee
the
interim
annual
governance
statement.
It's
part
way
along
its
journey
to
coming
back
to
committee,
hopefully
in
november
this
year
for
approval
as
a
final
version
when
it
will
be
updated.
It
has
been
circulated
to
committee,
so
you've
you've
had
an
opportunity
to
comment
and
I've
incorporated
those
comments
that
I
had
received
prior
to
the
meeting.
C
Yeah,
chair
he's
probably
slightly
pedantic,
but
it's
friday
afternoon
on
page
72,
we're
given
a
table
with
sit
for
governance
code
and
what
we
have
is
our
own
lcc
corporate
governance
code
and
framework,
and
there
are
seven
components
to
it.
Now,
six
of
them
I've
got
no
problem
with
what
we
say
in
hours
is
very,
very
much
reflects,
albeit
in
slightly
different
wording.
C
What
sit
for
saying,
but
right
at
the
bottom
of
page
72
d,
which
I
think
is
also
number
five
sipfer's
code,
says
determining
the
interventions
necessary
to
optimize
the
achievements
of
intended
outcomes.
Our
version
is
take
informed
and
transparent
decisions,
and
I
just
don't
feel
as
with
the
others.
The
the
former
translates
into
the
latter.
B
If
I'm
brutally
honest
counsellor,
I
scratched
my
head
a
little
bit
as
well
when
I
came
to
align
the
two
one
to
the
other.
This
is
the
corporate
governance
code
and
framework,
as
was
adopted
through
this
committee
back
in
2017.
I
think
councillor
graham
was
chair
of
the
committee
at
the
time
when
it
was
adopted,
I
have
looked
at
it.
I
think
it's
probably
time
that
we
reviewed
the
code
and
framework
anyway.
L
Just
just
a
very
quick
one
on
page
79,
paragraph
12.2,
where
it
says
our
scrutiny
function
is
well
resourced
and
developed,
which
I
I'm
not
going
to
comment
on,
but
the
last
bit
and
is
afforded
parity
of
esteem
with
the
executive.
L
What's
the,
how
was
that
particular
conclusion
reached
and
what
what's
the
evidence
on
that.
B
This
is
one
of
those
ones
where
I
say
the
annual
governance
statement
was
was
reached
in
part
as
a
result
of
inquiries
with
colleagues,
with
suitable
syrian
experience
and
seniority
to
provide
me
with
the
with
the
outcome.
So
our
colleagues
in
scrutiny,
the
annual
scrutiny
report
and
the
information
that
they've
provided
is
the
information
on
which
I
have
have
faced.
That
parity
of
the
esteem
comment.
A
I
Thank
you
chair.
So
the
report
presents
the
draft
statement
of
accounts
which,
at
this
stage
in
the
process,
are
coming
to
members
for
information.
I
So
the
six
week,
public
inspection
period
for
the
accounts
will
start
on
monday
and
grant
thornton's
audit
will
also
be
starting
very
shortly
and
once
that
is
complete,
hopefully,
in
november
the
final
audited
accounts
with
any
necessary
adjustments
will
be
brought
back
to
the
committee,
and
it's
at
that
stage
that
the
committee
will
be
asked
to
approve
them.
On
behalf
of
the
council.
I
The
accounts
are
produced
in
line
with
technical
accounting
standards,
so
the
position
presented
in
the
increment
expenditure
account
is
a
little
different
from
what
members
may
be
used
to
seeing
in
terms
of
an
out-turn
report.
I
There
are
technical
accounting
entries
for
issues
like
depreciation
impairments
is
19
pensions,
but
I
think
this
year
the
the
irony
account
does
clearly
show
the
impact
of
the
pandemic,
in
terms
of
particularly
the
council's
balance
of
funding,
in
that
there
is
a
big
increase
in
government
grant
funding
and
a
big
reduction
in
particularly
business
rates,
local
taxation
income.
I
I
should
also
mention
that,
in
addition
to
the
general
government
grants
line
increase,
there
is
also
some
specific
directorate,
specific
kobe
granting
comics
included
within
the
grossing
configures
for
specific
services,
and
there
is
an
explanatory
note
note
h,
sorry
note
8,
which
gives
the
year
on
your
comparison
for
government
grants
included
in
specific
services.
I
On
the
subject
of
business
raised
income.
I
should
also
mention
that
there
is
a
non-covered
factor
there
as
well.
In
the
20.
We
were
part
of
a
75
pilot
for
business
rates
retention,
whereas
for
this
year
2021
that's
back
to
a
50
business
rates
retention,
so
there
would
always
have
been
even
without
kobe's
a
reduction
in
our
business
rates
income
for
this
year.
I
I
I
should
also
mention
that,
in
terms
of
the
valuation
of
land
and
property
assets
other
than
for
housing
dwellings,
our
valuers
have
advised
again
this
year
that
there
is
a
material
uncertainty
factor
in
respect
of
the
rest
of
the
property
valuations
and
that's
in
line
with
royal
institute
of
chartered
surveyors
national
advice,
which
their
guidance,
the
on
material
uncertainty,
was
actually
enforced
until
mid-may
this
year.
I
Also
on
the
balance
sheet,
you'll
see
that
there's
been
big
increases
in
both
debtors
and
creditors
in
terms
of
the
debtors
increase,
that's
not,
as
you
might
suspect,
to
do
with
difficulties
in
collecting
income.
There's
actually
two
factors
in
there.
I
That
was
all
I
wanted
to
highlight
in
terms
of
the
figures
in
the
accounts.
In
recent
years,
we
have
been
running
informal
sessions
between
the
draft
accounts
coming
to
committee
and
the
final
accounts
coming
to
me
committee
for
members
to
have
the
opportunity
to
ask
any
detailed
questions
that
they
want
to
ask
about
the
accounts
outside
of
this
forum.
So
we're
very
happy
to
run
those
again
this
year.
A
Thank
you,
mary.
Any
questions
from
members
council,
heron.
I
Councillor,
the
vast
majority
of
the
non-housing
stock
is
valued
internally
for
the
housing
stock.
We
employ
the
district
valuers
office
to
provide
advice
on
those
and
we
do
employ
specialist
external
valuers
specifically
for
the
pfi
waste
plant,
because
that's
such
a
specialist
asset
that
we
don't
have
the
capacity
to
do
it
internally.
G
Thank
you
for
that.
If
we're
having
an
additional
session
later
in
the
year
to
discuss
certain
things-
and
I
won't
pursue
it
any
further,
but
just
a
couple
of
observations
that
given
the
uncertainties
of
the
last
18
months
or
so
in
terms
of
property
and
valuations,
then
I
would
like
to
drill
down
into
that
a
bit
better
when
we
have
a
better
when
we
have
a
more
detailed
session,
and
the
other
thing
is
that
the
pension
accrual
has
changed
dramatically.
G
I
I
So
because
we
are,
we
have
a
funded
scheme
at
that
point
in
time
they
will
assess
the
extent
to
which
the
assets
will
earn
income
before
the
liabilities
become
payable,
whereas
the
position
on
the
balance
sheet
is
purely
the
value
of
the
assets
that
we
have
now
and
the
current
the
net
present
value
of
the
liabilities.
So
it
doesn't
take
into
account
the
extent
to
which
you
would
expect
those
assets
to
earn
income
before
the
liabilities
become
payable.
I
A
F
Thanks
cher
page
177,
my
questions
around
the
cost
of
compulsory
redundancy
and
other
levers
on
page
178.
The
table
shows
2019-2020
in
terms
of
compulsory
redundancies
figures
which
is
sort
of
consistent,
but
would
I
be
right
to
assume
in
terms
of
the
levers,
that's
sort
of
connected
to
the
the
pandemic,
or
could
that
be?
Please
explain
because
there's
a
big
difference
from
the
previous
year
2019,
but
2020
and
20
20
21.
Please
thank
you
and
what
exactly
are
other
levers?
Some
examples.
Please.
I
A
A
J
Thanks
very
much
chair
I'll
I'll
kick
off
and
and
hand
over
to
perminder
in
a
moment,
so
just
in
terms
of
some
of
the
key
headline
messages
from
this
document.
This
is
our
2021
audit
plan.
J
The
other
couple
of
things
to
mention
on
that
that
page
chair
one,
is
the
new
auditing
standard,
nicer
540,
which
requires
auditors
to
look
at
key
areas
of
estimate
and
disclosure
in
a
more
detailed
manner
than
previously,
and
then
the
final
point
on
that
page
is
something.
J
We've
talked
about
quite
a
bit
at
this
committee
in
terms
of
the
expectations
of
our
regulators
in
terms
of
the
increasing
raising
of
the
bar,
if
you
like,
in
terms
of
audit
documentation
and
audit
quality
just
over
the
page
on
page
two,
three
six
in
terms
of
some
of
the
headlines
again,
the
significant
risks
on
the
audits
are
the
areas
where
we're
going
to
pay
particular
audit
focus
and
attention.
J
They're
listed
there,
they're
ones.
That
again
will
be
familiar
to
certain
members
of
the
committee
they're.
The
key
risks
that
we've
had
in
in
recent
years
and
they
are
around
in
most
cases
the
valuation
of
the
very
high
value
areas
of
the
balance
sheet,
some
of
which
we've
we've
just
touched
on
in
mary's
presentation
around
the
valuation
of
your
london
buildings,
your
investment
properties
and
the
pension
fund
liability.
J
Materiality
is
broadly
in
line
with,
with
the
prior
year
at
last
week's
training
session,
that
we
ran
last
friday,
which
hopefully
members
found
helpful.
We
talked
quite
a
bit
around
the
new
value
for
money
arrangements
review.
So
that's
clearly
going
to
be
a
key
piece
of
work
that
we'll
be
performing
throughout
the
rest
of
the
year,
with
a
particular
look
around
the
the
overall
financial
position
of
the
authority
and
again
audit
logistics.
J
We
spoke
quite
a
bit
at
the
last
meeting
and
indeed
last
friday,
around
the
arrangements
in
place
around
the
audit
fee
and
some
of
the
reasons
why
that
fee
has
gone
up
and
also
around
the
audit
timetable
and
why
we're
working
towards
a
november
sign-off
date
as
opposed
to
september.
So
what
dwell
on
those
given
that
we
we
discussed
those
at
some
length
last
week
I'll
hand
over
to
perminder.
If
there's
anything
else,
I
just
want
to
draw
out.
Thank
you,
chair.
K
Thanks
gareth,
if
I
could
draw
your
attention
to
a
few
particular
points
just
on
page
237,
the
authority
doesn't
produce
group
accounts
at
the
moment,
and
you
are
involved
with
a
number
of
entities,
including
three
subsidiaries.
K
As
part
of
our
work,
we
will
be
looking
at
your
assessment
around
that
to
be
satisfied
that
group
accounts
are
not
appropriate,
leads
the
risks,
gareth
sort
of
highlighted
for
on
from
page
238
for
the
next
four
pages.
There's
just
a
couple
I
just
want
to
particularly
refer
to.
There
are
two
risks
that
all
auditors
are
required
to
consider.
K
One
is
around
the
risk
of
fraud
and
revenue,
recognition
and
also
expenditure,
which
is
on
page
238,
that
particular
risk
given
there's
little
incentive
for
the
authority
to
manipulate
revenue
or
major
income
streams,
and
the
fact
that
you've
got
good
ethical
frameworks
in
place
has
allowed
us
to
rebut
that
particular
risk.
Now
that
doesn't
mean
to
say
that
we're
not
going
to
be
doing
any
work
around
those
areas.
K
The
other
area
which
is
on
page
239,
is
the
management
override
of
controls.
Again,
all
again,
all
auditors
are
required
to
consider
that
risk
and
that's
around
the
potential
for
management
to
take
action
to
manipulate
the
outcome
position
of
the
authority
and
in
that
regard,
particular
areas
of
work.
We
will
undertake
relate
to
journals
testing
and,
in
particular,
looking
at
management
estimates
and
those
types
of
transactions
where
it's
not
clear,
and
there
is
a
degree
of
judgment
that
you
can
use
to
put
numbers
into
your
account.
K
The
next
few
pages
touch
on,
I
think,
as
gareth
had
already
mentioned,
significant
risk
around
the
valuation,
london
buildings,
investment
properties
and,
of
course,
at
the
pension
fund.
They
are
very
significant
pieces
of
work
and
involve
quite
a
lot
of
detail,
particularly
around
the
valuation
of
property
plant
and
equipment.
I'm
going
to
take
quite
a
lot
of
detailed
work
and,
as
regards
on
pensions,
we
do
rely
on
the
experts
that
the
authority
uses
to
provide
valuations
to
the
council.
K
Gareth
also
mentioned
iso
540,
that's
around
accounting
estimates.
The
additional
work
this
year
has
arisen
because
the
financial
reporting
council
has
issued
an
updated
isa
and
what
that
means
really.
Is
that
we'll
be
looking
a
lot
more
in
depth
at
management's
arrangements
for
determining
accounting
estimates,
how
they've
calculated
them
the
basis
on
which
those
judgments
have
been
made
to
determine
what
the
estimate
ought
to
be.
But
there
is
a
role
here
now
for
the
audit
committee
too.
K
Of
course,
evaluation
of
london
buildings
we've
touched
on
as
we
have
on
pensions,
but
there
are
other
areas,
for
example
depreciation
that
may
fall
within
those,
and
in
that
regard
we
have
issued
a
paper
to
management
where
they
can
actually
provide
that
assessment
in
the
key
areas,
and
I
believe
that
will
be
coming
to
the
committee
during
september,
but
we
have
requested
that
we
could
have
that
earlier
for
our
audit
work
during
the
summer.
So
we
can
use
that
as
part
of
our
audit.
K
Page
246,
there
are
other
matters
that
we
have
an
audit
responsibility
for
which
are
set
out
there.
We
obviously
review
the
narrative
report.
We
also
look
at
the
annual
governance
statement
to
ensure
that
it
sort
of
meets
what
our
understanding
of
the
council
is,
but
of
course,
also
discloses
all
the
particular
areas
required
by
cipher.
K
On
the
right
hand,
side
of
that
particular
page
we've
drawn
attention
to
going
concern
going.
Concern,
obviously,
is
a
particular
issue
in
all
organizations
during
the
pandemic.
Less
so
now
for
public
sector
bodies.
Following
the
issue
of
practice,
note
10,
so
the
focus
ongoing
concern
perhaps
may
be
considered
a
little
bit
less
than
it
has
been
in
previous
years,
but
nonetheless,
given
the
financial
pressures
that
the
council
has
been
facing,
that
will
be
something
that
we
will
be
looking
at
quite
closely
and,
in
particular
management
assessment,
management's
own
assessment
of
going
concern.
K
The
next
page,
on
page
247
of
the
pack,
really
draws
out
a
follow-up
of
the
recommendations
that
we
made
last
year
and
the
action
that's
been
taken
so
far
today.
So
there
were
seven
recommendations
we
made
in
our
isa
report
last
year,
management
of
action,
three
of
those
recommendations,
three
remain
ongoing
and
one
hasn't
been
actioned
and
the
one
that
hasn't
been
actioned
relates
to
obtaining
valuation
of
property
at
the
end
of
the
financial
year
31st
of
march.
Now,
traditionally
that
was
done
earlier.
K
K
Materiality
gareth
has
set
out
and
referred
to
already.
Value
for
money
is
on
page
250
the
park.
There
are
three
key
criteria:
new
areas
of
work
that
we'll
be
undertaking
under
the
new
code
this
year.
That's
financial
sustainability,
governance
and
improvements
in
economy,
efficiency
and
effectiveness
on
the
basis
of
our
planning
work.
K
So
far,
we've
not
identified
any
significant
weaknesses
at
the
council,
except
for
the
overall
financial
position,
and
that
follows
on
from
the
qualified,
except
for
value
from
any
conclusion
that
we
raised
last
year
and
it
mirrors
a
lot
of
authorities
that
are
in
financial
under
a
lot
of
financial
pressure.
Because
of
the
impact
of
the
pandemic.
K
Our
timetable
and
audit
logistics
are
set
out
on
page
252
and
we're
targeting
to
sign
off.
Assuming
all
audit
work
is
completed
by
the
30th
of
november.
K
Our
audit
fees
are
set
out
on
the
following
page
and
section
12.
The
fees
are
the
same
as
we
reported
in
our
audit
repo
audit
update
report
to
the
audit
committee
back
in
june
and,
finally,
on
page
255,
we
are
required
to
disclose
any
independents
or
non-audit
services
that
we
provide.
There
are
no
independence
issues
and
we
don't
provide
any,
not
audit
services
to
the
authority
during
this
current
year.
K
The
appendix
just
for
information
sets
out
the
changes
to
the
various
standards
and
application
guidance
that
we
need
to
comply
with
as
part
of
our
audit
for
this
year.
So
it
just
sets
out
the
significant
change
and
the
depth
of
work
that
we'll
be
required
to
undertake
I'll
pause
there,
but
happy
to
take
questions.
C
Yeah,
thank
you.
Gareth
perminder,
just
two
very
quick
questions
on
page
243,
there
is
reference,
and
you
did
speak
about
this
perminder
to
specifically
do
corporate
governance
and
audit
committee
members
and
then
there
are
three
questions
and
I
have
to
say
when
I
read
this:
it
felt
like
that
nightmare
where
you're
doing
an
examination
the
following
day
and
you're,
not
even
taking
the
course.
So
I
suppose
the
question
to
ourselves
is:
what
are
we
going
to
do
to
ensure
that
hey,
we
understand
the
questions
and
b.
C
We
can
answer
them
in
the
affirmative
and
the
second
point
is
on
page
249
materiality
and
it's
the
final
paragraph
where
it
says
if
management
have
corrected
material
misstatements
identified
during
the
course
of
the
audit.
We
will
consider
whether
these
corrections
should
be
communicated
to
this
committee,
and
I'm
just
wondering
how
you
will
decide
what
might
come
to
this
committee
and
what
might
not,
and
would
it
not
be
easier
just
to
let
us
have
the
whole
kit
and
caboodle.
K
Okay,
perhaps
if
I
can
take
the
second
question
first,
as
regards
materiality,
we've
set
a
trivial
figure
of
1.3
million,
which
is
set
out
on
page
249..
K
So
what
that
really
means
is
that
anything
below
that
we
wouldn't
really
consider
would
impact
on
the
opinion
on
our
audit
and
therefore
we
wouldn't
normally
report
that
unless
we
thought
there
was
a
reason
for
it.
So
anything
above
that,
if
even
management
process
it,
we
will
take
a
view
and
it
would
normally
be
included
as
just
by
management.
So
in
one
of
the
schedules
it
will
clearly
set
out
either
we've
identified
it
and
it's
been
adjusted
or
whether
it's
been
made
by
management.
So
this
clarity
as
to
why
it's
been
done
and
by
whom.
K
So
that's
the
first
point
and
then
just
going
back
to
the
other
matters
which
are
on
page
243.
K
There
is
a
pack
that
I
know
management
will
be
bringing
which
sort
of
sets
out
what
the
estimates
are,
what
work
they've
done
on
them
and
the
impact
of
those
which
should
hopefully
help
the
audit
committee.
Those
charging
governance
in
answering
some
of
those
questions
well
paul's
there
for
gary.
J
Yeah
thanks
very
much.
I
think
I
think
the
key
parts
of
the
you
know
the
reference
of
your
responsibility
probably
will
come
through
the
the
sessions
that
that
that
mary
has
has
offered
to
do
and
as
part
of
that,
I'm
sure
mary
will
set
out
where
mary
and
the
rest
of
the
finance
team
have
made
those
key
judgments
and
their
rationale
for
for
doing
so,
and
that
will
be,
as
I
say,
documented
in
a
report
that
will
come
to
this
committee
towards
the
end
of
september
council
trustful.
J
So
hopefully
that
will
give
members.
You
know
the
the
assurance
and
the
ability
to
to
understand
the
rationale
of
management
arriving
at
that
judgement,
which
you
will
either
concur
with
or
raise
further
questions.
I'm
sure.
C
Yeah
the
reason
I
asked
the
question
is
that
I
understood
the
paragraph
before
and
the
clearly
clearly
trivial
figure.
So
I
didn't
understand
the
need
for
the
final
paragraph
because
it
seemed
to
qualify
in
some
way,
but
I
think
members
of
the
public,
it's
almost
like
blood
donor
sketch.
You
know,
1.3
million-
may
be
trivial
to
some
people,
but
it's
a
bloody
fortune
to
some
poor
beggar
and
I
think
there
needs
to
be
some
some
understanding
of
that
figure.
J
I
had
a
similar
one
at
a
very
similar
committee
yesterday,
actually,
and
obviously
we
don't
order
to
the
penny,
we
have
toward
it
to
a
materiality
level
that
we
can
give
a
reasonable
level
of
assurance
that
the
accounts
give
a
true
and
fair
view
and
a
free
from
material
error
and
obviously,
in
arriving
at
that
we,
you
know,
we
have
a
calculation
methodology
to
to
give
a
materiality
figure
based
on
a
percentage
of
your
total
spend,
but
in
order
to
still
capture
lower
level
adjustments
or
errors,
we
do
have
that
triviality
figure
and
we've
got
to
set
it
at
some
point
and
it's
typically
around
sort
of
five
percent
of
the
headline
level
of
materiality.
J
K
Can
I
just
add
one
further
point
to
that,
and
that
is
that
that
materiality
figure
would
really
only
apply
if
it
really
didn't
impact
on
your
out-term
position,
so
anything
smaller
than
that
that
would
sort
of
move
you
from
maybe
a
surplus
position
to
a
deficit
position.
We
would
routinely
report
that
to
you
anyway,
because
it
would
be
material
by
nature.
F
Thanks
jay
I'd
just
like
some
clarity
around
the
audit
fees,
which
is
number
12
on
page
253,.
F
Looking
at
the
actual
fees,
obviously,
since
2017-18
it
has
come,
the
actual
fees
I
mean
the
psaa
scale
fee
has
come
down
from
2
31
and
95
9
000,
sorry
to
231
953
to
178
000,
with
the
free
uplift
proposed
uplift
of
97
000,
which
you
have
shown.
The
breakdown
in
the
detailed
analysis
it
says
proposed,
increase
to
agreed
from
2019
2020
was
37
250..
F
J
Thanks
counselor,
the
the
as
we
know
from
previous
discussions,
obviously
there's
quite
a
bit
of
sensitivity
around
the
audit
fee.
Now,
if
we
had
the
page,
if
we
had
the
space
on
this
page-
and
we
went
back
to
the
audit
fee
for
this
council
when
I
started
as
a
sit
for
trainee
19
years
ago-
is
about
half
a
million
pound
so
over
that
period
of
time
with
the
demise
of
the
audit,
commission,
etc,
the
scale
fee
has
reduced
quite
significantly.
J
J
It
effectively
incorporates
the
uplift
from
previous
years,
around
the
level
of
detail,
work
that
we're
now
doing
on
the
valuation
of
your
estate,
the
pension
fund
valuation,
those
are
effectively.
What
we're
effectively
saying
is
that
those
are
continuing,
ongoing
pieces
of
work
and
then
the
bit
that's
really
new
for
this
year
is
twofold.
J
One
is
the
new
vfm
arrangements
review,
which
has
been
performed
for
the
first
time
this
year
and,
as
we
said
on
the
session
last
week,
you
know
it's
a
much
more
wide-ranging,
detailed
piece
of
work
than
the
previous
vfm
review
and
then.
Secondly,
you
know
the
new
standards
coming
in
in
terms
of
the
expectations
around
the
level
of
detail
work.
We
do,
I
suppose,
a
couple
of
other
things
to
mention
on
the
fee
is-
and
I
think
we
touched
on
this
in
the
progress
report
that
we
did
at
the
last
meeting.
J
Obviously,
the
redmond
review
and
mhclg
have
both
acknowledged
that
audit
fees
have
become
too
low
for
the
level
of
audit
work,
that
audit
firms
are
performing
on
local
authority
accounts
and
as
such
they
made
15
million
available
to
the
sector.
I
think
was
announced
just
today.
I
can
see
victoria
noddy
now
that
15
million
is
going
to
be
distributed,
but
certainly
when
we
were
planning
this,
you
know
the
expectation
would
be
that
all
or
substantially
all
of
that
97
uplift
will
be
covered
by
leeds's
portion
of
the
the
15
million.
J
That's
been
made
available
and
I
think
the
other
expectation
is
that
the
the
uplifts
that
auditors
are
proposing
this
year
and
they're
expected
to
continue
on
that.
On
that
basis,
there's
not
another
97
000
to
come
next
year,
there's
an
expectation
that
the
uplift
for
this
year
should
run
broadly
for
the
rest
of
the
contract,
which
is
two
years
or
potentially
four
years,
if,
if
psa
extend
the
contract
period,
so
I
think
that
you
know
I
acknowledge,
there's
a
big
uplift
this
year
in
terms
of
both
value
and
percentage.
J
It
should
be
on
that
consistent
basis
for
the
remainder
of
the
contract
and,
as
I
say,
hopefully,
the
uplift
is,
is
broadly
covered
by
the
mhclg
funding
allocation
chair.
Thank
you.
Chad.
F
F
J
Trying
right
thanks
casa,
I
think
what
we've
tried
to
do
there
is
is
be
as
open
and
transparent
as
possible
by
starting
with
the
scale
fee
of
178
and
then
what
we've
done
is
we've
added
on
the
uplifts
that
we
had
for
last
year's
audit,
which
takes
you
to
the
238
which
reconciles
back
to
the
prior
year
figure
on
the
previous
page,
and
then
we
and
then
we've
shown
what's
new
for
this
year,
which
is
principally
the
additional
work
on
the
vfm
arrangements
review
and
the
the
new
auditing
standards,
principally
nicer
540.
J
J
So
we've
tried
to
do
it
in
a
way
that
hopefully
was
sort
of
clear
and
and
transparent
to
to
show
how
that
fee
is
broken
down.
B
Chair
if
it
assists
just
going
back
to
the
question
that
counselor
truswell
asked
around
the
questions
on
page
243
of
the
agenda
pack
for
the
the
committee
to
answer.
I'm
aware
that
there's
been
some
discussion
going
on
between
colleagues
within
the
the
financial
services
team
and
perhaps
victoria's
in
the
best
place,
to
talk
about
how
the
committee
are
going
to
be
placed
in
a
position
where
they
can
answer
those
questions
satisfactorily.
B
Thanks
chair
and
there
is
going
to
be
a
series
of
training
sessions
through
the
around
september
time,
where
members
will
be
invited
to
come
to
the
tooth.
It's
probably
going
through
four
sessions,
two
duplicates
so
that
you
can
choose
which
session's
best
for
yourselves,
where
mary
and
her
team
will
go
through
the
accounts
in
quite
a
lot
of
detail
where
you'll
be
able
to
ask
questions,
they'll
be
the
new
requirements
for
your
responsibilities
will
be
covered
in
those
sessions
and
then
we'll
go
through
things
like
value
for
money
and
estimates
during
that
process.
E
Yes,
I
sympathize
with
the
poverty
stricken
partners
of
grant
thornton
the
audit
feed
page
254
includes
ten
thousand
pounds.
One
off
things
occurred
last
year,
marion
house
and
heading
lilies,
but
they've
just
been
consolidated
into
the
total
and
carried
forward
weren't.
They
one-offs
they're,
not
going
to
repeat
and
be
repeated,
and
why
are
they
consolidated
and
treated
as
a
base
figure
and
they
were
exceptional.
J
J
You
know
we
can
review
that
during
the
course
of
the
audit
and
obviously
a
finalized
proposed
feel
will
be
included
in
the
isa
260
report
in
in
november,
and
there
will
be
ongoing
elements
of
those
pieces
of
work
that
will
still
require
review
for
this
year,
even
though
it
will
be
the
second
year
of
those
being
booked
to
the
to
the
leeds
accounts.
If
there's
anything,
you
want
to
to
add
perminder.
E
D
Thank
you
chair.
I'm
sorry
grant
thornton
it's
another
question
on
the
fee
you
mentioned,
and
I
I
didn't
have
any
questions
until
a
few
minutes
ago.
Actually,
but
you
mentioned
that
you
don't
envisage
any
further
incremental
change
in
respect
of
the
fee
for
the
next
couple
of
years.
I
know
that's
a
bold
statement
to
make.
Can
I
just
ask
around
impending
changes
or
amendments
to
isis
over
the
next
couple
of
years?
D
I'm
aware
that
there
are
a
couple
that
potentially
will
impact
on
the
work
that
you're
required
to
do.
What
would
that
mean
for
audit
fees
or
haven't
you
thought
that
far
ahead,
yet.
J
That's
good
good
question
linda.
I
think
the
the
expectation
is
that
this
year
clearly
has
been
a
a
real
step
change
in
terms
of
the
proposed
fees
across
the
sector.
So
you
know
in
terms
of
value
and
percentage
uplift
for
this
year
across
the
local
government
sector,
there
will
be
significant
uplifts
as
as
is
seen
in
the
leads
audit
plan.
J
The
expectation
is
that
uplifts
of
that
level
are
not
expected
to
take
place
over
the
next
couple
of
years
for
the
remainder
of
the
the
psa
contract.
That
said,
you
know
things
like
ifrs
16,
for
example.
That's
that's
due
to
coming
in
a
couple
of
years
time
that
clearly
will
be
a
big
piece
of
work.
J
It's
obviously
going
to
be
a
big
piece
of
work
for
mary
and
the
team
and
will
be
a
piece
of
work
that
the
auditors
will
need
to
go
through,
but
they're
not
going
to
be
at
the
sort
of
97k
level
that
obviously
this
year's
is
so
you
know
the
the
the
the
sort
of
lead
gt
partners
who
are
engaging
with
the
other
firms
and
psa.
J
You
know
they
have
set
that
expectation
that
you
know
the
uplifts
that
are
introduced
this
year.
They're
not
going
to
be
seen
on
a
similar
basis,
for
the
remainder
of
the
contract
is
seen
as
a
a
real
sort
of
step
change
for
this
year
and
then
obviously
things
like
the
new
auditing
or
accounting
standards,
you
know
will
be
looked
at
on
a
case-by-case
basis,
but
they're
unlikely
to
lead
to
anything
like
that.
I
should
actually
make
one
other
point
in
that
I'm
not
actually
a
partner
at
grant
thornton
just
to
just
to
make.
D
Just
to
follow
on
question,
thank
you
gareth,
for
that.
The
one
that
I'm
thinking
about
in
particular
is
the
isa
240
the
amendments
to
every
in
respect
to
fraud
in
a
couple
of
years
time,
and
I
think
it
links
back
to
one
of
the
councillors
questions
earlier
around
materiality
and
what
does
that
mean
from
a
public
user's
perception
of
the
accounts?
D
I
guess
just
want
to
think
about
going
forward
is
where
you
look
at
arrangements
that
the
council's
already
got
in
place,
or
maybe
should
have
in
place
to
enable
you
to
come
to
a
conclusion
around
this
particular
one
going
forward
it.
But
I
think
it
would
be
advisable
to
have
early
conversations
around
that
in
advance
of
two
years
time,
if
that
makes
sense,
and
not
to
wait
until
the
the
time
comes
in
to
say
to
people
like
louise
or
the
finance
team,
that
they
should
have
done
something
in
a
different
way.
J
Yeah,
absolutely
I
mean
you
know
it's
in
nobody's
interest
to
leave.
You
know
key
discussions
on
new
accounting
or
auditing
developments
to
the
last
minute,
so
I
mean
using
a
ifrs
16
as
an
example,
you
know
until
kovid
hit
and
the
implementation
of
that
got
got
delayed.
You
know
it
was
a
standing
item
on
discussions
that
we
had
with
we.
You
know
with
mary
and
and
victoria
and
richard
so.
J
Similarly
as
and
when
you
know
those
new
developments
are
coming
forward,
we
will
be
picking
those
up
routinely
because
it's
in
nobody's
interests
obviously
to
to
leave
those
key
discussions
until
until
near
the
time.
A
B
Yes,
this
is
the
the
work
program
that
members
have
seen
before,
but
with
some
amendments
in
red
type.
If
you've
got
a
colored
printed
copy
of
the
agenda,
you'll
see
that
there's
an
additional
item
being
added
to
the
september
work
program,
which
is
the
approval
of
the
items
that
grant
thornton
have
been
speaking
about
this
afternoon
and
then
to
make
that
space.
The
financial
planning
and
management
report
has
been
shuffled
to
the
november
meeting,
and
the
procurement
update
that
kieran
spoke
about
earlier
has
been
added
into
the
november
meeting
as
well.