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A
Plans
panamintal,
where
we're
all
here
in
person
much
better
than
zoom
and
of
course
we
did
have
a
site
visit.
A
number
of
you
were
on
it
this
morning
and
I
think
it's
much
better
than
any
maps
that
offices
or
plans
can
show
us
actually
been
there
to
see
for
yourself
and
we
were.
A
No
now
neil
behave
yourself,
you
don't
get
this
chit
chat
on
zoom,
you
know:
can
we
can
we?
Can
we
come
to
order?
As
you
know,
my
name
is
council,
jim
mckenna
and
I
will
be
chairing
today's
meeting
city
city
said.
The
plans
panel
deals
with
applications
from
the
city
center,
as
well
as
the
largest
and
most
significant
applications
the
council
received.
A
The
aim
of
the
panel
is
to
hear
all
the
relevant
information
from
applicants.
Members
of
the
public
and
council
officers
to
help
members
of
the
panel
make
their
decision.
Could
I
now
invite
members
and
officers
to
introduce
themselves
a
mute?
Oh,
a
mute,
your
microphone
once
you
have
introduced
yourself.
Okay,
can
I
start
on
my
left.
Please
mark.
N
Good
afternoon
stephen
barley,
design
officer.
A
Thank
you
for
that
and
nice
to
have
tom
here.
I
think
it's
the
first
time
we've
had
anybody
from
drainage
for
many
many
a
year.
Okay,
I'm
sure
there'll
be
questions
on
paul
as
well
from
education.
You're.
Both
very
welcome.
Can
I
move
over
to
you,
john.
Please
introduced
the
items.
C
Thank
you
chair
under
gender
item
one.
There
were
no
appeals
against
the
refusal
of
inspection
of
documents
under
agenda
item
two.
There
were
no
items
which
require
we
require
exclusion
of
the
president
public
under
item
3.
I'm
not
aware
of
any
late
items
of
business
agenda.
Item
4.
Could
I
ask
members
to
declare
any
interest
that
I
have
I'll
assume
that's
known
item?
Five.
Apologies
for
absence
have
been
received
from
castle
david,
blackburn
and
castle
paul
woodsworth
we've
got
councillor,
barry
anderson
stepping
in
thank
you,
chair.
A
Thank
you,
john,
and
thank
you
barry
for
stepping
in
moving
on
to
the
minutes
of
the
previous
meeting
held
on
the
30th
of
september,
which
was
not
shared
by
myself,
who
was
chaired
by
councillor
walt
shaw.
So
I'm
looking
to
council
walsh
or
if
there's
any
corrections
or
any
mistakes
on
that
one.
A
Okay,
can
we
accept
those
minutes
as
a
true
and
correct
record,
yep,
lovely
good
stuff,
and
thanks
neil
for
standing
in?
A
No
okay,
then,
can
we
move
straight
on
to
the
main
item
on
our
agenda,
which
is
agenda,
item
eight
and
mark?
Can
I
ask
you
to
introduce
you
please
thank
you.
B
B
The
scheme
was
brought
before
members
and
the
the
application
was
discussed
at
length.
The
original
the
outline
planning
permission
was
granted
by
the
plans
panel
back
in
2017,
and
this
is
a
reserved
matters,
application
for
the
design,
layout,
scale,
appearance
and
landscaping
of
the
450
new
homes.
B
At
the
plans
panel,
the
resolution
sought
further
information
and
clarification
on
and
further
discussions
to
be
held
with
the
developer
in
respect
of
further
information
on
the
drainage
issues.
B
I
have
since
been
together
with
various
other
officers
in
discussions
with
the
applicant
about
those
matters
and
we've.
The
applicant
has
submitted
further
drainage
strategy
information
regarding
drainage
strategy,
a
technical
note
on
the
location
of
the
school
and
further
ecological
assessments
of
the
site,
energy
efficiency
and
renewables
plans
showing
where
their
their
strategy,
how
their
strategy
will
pan
out
through
the
course
of
the
the
development
and
further
highways
technical
note
and
demonstrating,
and
showing
that
every
home
will
have
a
car
electric
car
charging
point.
B
Since
the
plans
panel
there's
there
has
been
44
further
representations
made
by
members
of
the
public
and
including
further
representation
from
councillor
former
councillor
redley,
who
spoke
at
the
plans
panel
previously
in
terms
of
the
issues
raised
by
the
representations
and
the
and
council.
Already
no
new
issues
have
arisen
that
require
further
consideration.
B
B
Since
the
the
plans
panel,
national
planning
policy
has
chronically
changed
insofar
as
the
design
model
has
has
been
put
forward
and
is
to
be
considered
when
assessing
design.
B
I'm
going
to
take
you
through
the
the
points
that
were
required
to
be
looked
at
and
and
give
you
a
bit
more
information
about
the
discussions
that
have
been
held
and
further
clarification
on
those
those
issues
taking
them
in
turn
drainage
strategy,
as
previously
brought
before
members.
B
The
strategy
was,
the
general
principle
of
the
development
was
subject
to
drainage
details
being
submitted
as
part
of
the
condition
in
terms
of
since
the
this
reserve
matters.
Application
was
submitted,
our
the
lead,
local
flooding
authority
have
been
in
discussions
with
the
applicant
and
the
drainage
strategy
was
submitted.
B
The
since
coming
back
to
you
with
this
this
proposal.
B
The
strategy
includes
attenuation
ponds
in
under
a
parcel
of
land
located
in
in
what
is
considered
to
be
the
best
location
given
the
topography
of
of
the
site
and
this
this
overall
strategy,
whilst
calculations
for
surface
water
runoff,
have
not
yet
been
agreed.
This
general
strategy
is,
is
considered
to
be
an
acceptable
way
forward
and,
as
often
is
the
case,
details
such
as
the
calculations
are
still
subject
to
the
conditions
that
were
imposed
on
the
outline
planning
permission.
B
With
regards
to
the
location
of
the
school
members
rightly
raised
concerns
with
regards
to
the
location
of
the
school
within
the
site
and
questioned
the
the
future
implications
of
its
its
location,
the
applicant,
through
the
course
of
the
the
application
the
the
applicant
has
discussed
the
layout
with
the
urban
design
team
and
and
other
council
officers,
and
in
terms
of
the
reason
for
the
provision
of
a
site
with
for
a
future
school
was,
it
was
always
considered
in
the
outline
planning
consent
that
was
approved
by
members.
B
This
was
considered
to
be
the
best
way
to
and
ensure
that
a
location
of
a
school
isn't
on
the
ellen
road,
stroke,
victoria
road
junction,
which
would
undoubtedly
have
a
much
bigger
impact
on
traffic
and
and
the
the
general
amenities
of
the
area.
The
in
the
in
the
previous
plans
panel,
it
was
questioned.
B
There
was
various
questions
regarding
what
what
the
implications
would
be
in
terms
of
traffic
and
future
traffic
generation
through
drop-offs
and
pickups,
and
also
what
would
be
the
outcome
if
a
school
wasn't
required?
How
would
this
parcel
of
land
end
up
being?
How
would
it
be
visualized
within
the
street?
B
So,
where
the
developer
has
worked
with
us,
knowing
that
it
will
not
be
the
developer,
who
ultimately
has
control
over
whether
that
is
built
out?
What
the
developer
has
tried
to
look
at
in
the
layout
is
making
sure
that
the
infrastructure
that
they're
providing
in
terms
of
the
spinal
route
through
the
site
can
accommodate
vehicles,
but
also
looking
at
providing
a
6.75
meter
width
carriageway
so
that,
ultimately,
if
a
bus
service
were
to
be
put
on
by
the
bus
companies,
it
would
be
could
be
accommodated.
C
B
Slide
your
weapon
on
apologies,
assuming
we're
just
having
some
issues
with
the
internet
at
the
moment,
yeah
just
been
a
bit
finicky.
Thank
you.
So,
as
you
can
see
here,
this
looks
at
the
the
connectivity
and,
whilst
the
school
is
in
in
the
central
part
of
the
site,
there
is
footpaths
that
run
separated
from
the
the
carriageway
to
make
sure
that
the
school,
ultimately,
where
the
developer
has
control
over
providing
infrastructure
it.
The
future
infrastructure,
is
there
that
would
go
above
what
other
housing
estates
in
the
city
have
have
done
before.
B
In
my
report,
I
I
do
make
reference
to
other
sites
that
such
as
the
barrett
scheme
on
a650,
where
the
planning
inspectorate
upheld
the
the
application
and
the
parcel
of
one
for
the
school
is
actually
right.
Next
to
the
a650,
which
is
something
we
was
wanting
wanted
to
be
avoided
in
this
particular
case.
B
To
ensure
that
a
school
that
has
originally
been
seen
that
the
housing
that
will
surround
it
will
be
the
generator
of
of
the
need
for
the
school
potentially
and
therefore
looking
to
make
sure
that
this
is
sustainably
located
within
this
parcel
of
land
and
within
its
wider
area.
B
Moving
on
to
to
the
point,
the
next
point
and
clarification
regarding
the
biodiversity
improvements,
this
links
strongly
with
the
climate
change
measures
that
are
being
proposed
and
I
shall
touch
on
both
together.
At
this
stage,
the
development
originally
at
outlying
stage
was
required
to
provide
biodiversity
improvements
across
the
site.
B
Sorry,
four
actually
thank
you.
So
the
the
applicant
has
looked
at
the
biodiversity
across
the
site.
It's
recognized
that
it
needs
to
improve
the
ponder
drainage,
and
it's
also
recognized
that
it
needs
to
provide
open
space
that
is,
is
well
located,
but
can
actually
be
used
by
the
the
community,
but
also
serve
the
biodiversity
net
gain
and,
as
a
result
of
this,
has
looked
at
a
parcel
of
land
to
the
south
south
east,
to
also
not
only
deliver
drainage
improvements,
but
also
deliver
biodiversity
net
gain.
B
So
the
biodiversity
net
gain
is
in
line
with
national
planning
policy
in
so
far
as
the
off-site
links
via
public
rights
of
way.
But
it
also
not
only
does
it
actually
meet
the
10
net
gain
that
the
council
is
is
seeking
to
achieve
on
on
all
applications,
but
it's
far
exceeded
that
by
providing
14.7
biodiversity
improvements
across
this
site
and
the
the
off-site
parcel
of
land
that
is
shown
in
front
of
you.
B
This
links
heavily
with
not
only
the
drainage
but
the
climate
emergency
and
and
the
environmental
impact
that
the
the
housing
scheme
has
but
further
to
again
the
conditions
that
were
imposed
on
the
outline
consent,
the
applicant
with
due
to
the
phasing
of
the
development,
will
not
only
meet
the
requirements
of
planning
policies,
en1
and
en2,
by
delivering
the
renewables
required
of
those
policies.
B
But
it
will
also
ensure
that,
as
the
stages
of
of
development
progress,
they
will
also
improve
upon
those
policies
by
meeting
the
the
the
building
regulations
requirements.
B
So
this
will
then
ultimately
exceed
the
planning
policy
requirements
that
were
were
set
out
in
in
20
2017..
B
B
These,
if
I
could
update
members
further
cgi's
computer-generated
images
have
been
received
that
are
very
similar
to
the
ones
that
you
have
in
your
presentation
pack,
but
just
outline
the
improvements
to
the
biodiversity
within
the
streets.
If
you
lose,
if
you
could
go
to
the
last
cgi's.
B
The
house
types
are
have
been
discussed
with
urban
design,
colleagues
and
our
com,
the
window
fenestrations,
the
palette
of
materials
are
all
considered.
The
scale
and
forms
of
the
different
dwellings
are
considered
to
give
a
very
a
high
quality
scheme
that
is
above
and
beyond
what
we
have
previously
seen
on
on
other
applications
that
have
been
approved.
B
Over
overall,
just
to
summarize,
the
the
matters
that
were
raised
in
the
plans
panel
have
have
been
addressed
by
the
the
significant
work
that
has
been
put
in
by
council
officers
and
the
the
developer,
and
it
is
respectfully
requested
that
this
is
discussed
further
and
determined.
Thank
you
ever
so
much
that
was
said
very
cheaply.
Sorry.
A
Thank
you
mark
excellent
report
and
I
think
all
the
points
raised
by
members
have
been
addressed
within
the
report.
Members,
of
course,
can
ask
questions
on
that.
Should
they
wish
to
do
so.
Can
I
remind
you
that
we
have
tom
here
from
drainage
and
paul
from
education,
and
those
were
two
issues
that
was
discussed
so
feel
free
to
ask
questions
of
officers
mark
or
anybody
relevant.
You
want
to
and
I'll
start
with
graeme.
Then
please.
M
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Just
a
couple
of
points
the
when
you
were
talking
about
the
drainage,
you
did
say
that
effectively
the
quantity
of
the
runoff
wasn't
yet
the
amount
wasn't
finalized.
M
M
How
many
children
do
we
for,
for
the
sake
of
argument,
does
the
this
development
or
could
it
raise
how
many
kids
could
it
put
into
the
school?
In
other
words,
what
is
the
potential
for
the
school
being
used
by
the
surrounding
area
and
the
potential
for
traffic
which
you've
touched
on
you
know,
could
it
be
a?
Could
it
be
a
local
school?
I
mean
I,
I
I'm
not
big
on
on
kids
and
I
I
don't
really.
M
M
Barry
so
I
you
know,
I
haven't
the
biggest
idea
what
the
what
a
two-form
entry
school
holds
in
in
terms
of
numbers.
So
if
you
could
tell
me
that
that'd
be
great.
A
B
Thank
you.
I
think
that
would
as
councillor
kennedy's
just
as
chase
just
said,
I
think
it
would
be
best
placed
if
I
could
pass
over
to
tom
bevis
from
flooding
to
answer
the
flood
risk
and
then
on
to
paul.
If
that's
okay
with
regards
to
the
school
potential
placement.
F
Okay,
the
quantity
of
discharge.
C
Is
fixed,
I
think
what
he
was
referring
to
was
the
actual
detailed
design
of
the
drainage
system,
the
actual
the
final
detailed
drainage
design
of
the
of
the
drainage
system
in
terms
of
the
pipe
diameters,
the
gradients
etcetera.
Because
until
you
know
the
exact
layout,
you
can't
identify
how
much
you're
draining
the
quantity
that
will
discharge.
The
top
milk
back
is
fixed,
it's
fixed
by
the
outline
of
47
liters,
a
second
which
is
the
green
drilled.
O
Thank
you
yeah,
so,
just
going
through
the
questions
in
terms
of
the
capacity
of
the
school,
a
two-form
entry
school
would
equate
to
420
children
in
total
if
the
school
was
full,
so
that
would
be
two
classes
in
each
of
seven
year:
groups
with
up
to
30
children
in
each
class
running
through
from
reception
to
year
six,
there
would
also
potentially
be
a
nursery
for
the
school
as
well.
O
In
addition
to
that,
and
in
terms
of
the
development
we
we
work
on
a
pupil
product
ratio
of
25,
primary
age,
children
for
every
100
dwellings
on
average
and
from
from
new
build
schemes
in
leeds
which
equates
to
for
450
units
around
113
children
in
total
on
first
occupation,
which
would
be
equivalent
to
around
16
children
per
year
group.
So
that's
just
over
half
a
form
of
entry,
which
means
we
would
require
about
three
quarters
of
the
intake
actually
to
come
from
the
surrounding
area
to
fill
the
school
in.
F
A
couple
of
questions
for
highways
and
then
one
for
for
mark
at
this
particular
point
in
terms
of
highways.
We
saw
this
morning
and
you've
shown
in
the
other
earlier
presentations
that
we've
got
that
there's
one
entrance
in
in
breach
of
policy,
but
leave
that
a
lot
alone
at
this
particular
point
and
there's
an
emergency
entrance
now
what's
to
stop
those
who
are
near
the.
F
F
Is
it
not
the
case
that,
at
this
particular
point,
whatever
additional
traffic
this
estate
produces
will
just
make
that
congestion
worse
until
cash
is
found
somewhere
else
not
from
the
developer
somewhere
else
to
resolve
the
problems
on
the
ring
road?
That's
two
questions
for
highways,
the
other
questions
for
for
market.
I
love
this
one.
F
D
Thank
you
chair,
so
in
terms
of
what
stops
people
exiting,
certainly
on
the
outline
planning
permission,
we
do
have
conditions
condition.
33
is
about
prior
to
commencement
development,
details
of
measures
to
control,
farm
access,
control,
gates
and
detail.
30
condition
31
is
about
before
development
commences,
a
detailed
plan
of
the
emergency
vehicle
vehicle
access
to
include
details
and
pedestrian
and
cycle
provision
to
be
approved.
In
writing.
D
So
we
haven't
got
the
full
details
yet
of
the
measures,
but
the
the
proposals
that
we
would
be
looking
for
is
some
form
of
either
rise,
lower,
bollard
or
gate
that
ensures
that
general
traffic
from
the
development
can't
egress
onto
victoria
road.
D
D
So
there
could
be
potential
for
adoption,
but
it
wouldn't
be
adopted
as
a
carriageway.
It
would
be
as
a
footway
cycle
way,
but
with
the
public
right
of
way
running
over
there.
It's
also
it
could
just
be
that
the
works
that
the
road
is
made
up
at
that
point.
D
Okay,
in
relation
to
the
works
on
the
ring
road.
Certainly
the
the
combined
authority
have
put
some
funding
in
towards
the
outer
ring
road,
and
the
junctions
that
are
currently
being
designed
up
in
detail
do
include
the
junction
at
the
bottom
of
cherwell
hill.
D
So
there
is
a
million
and
a
half
proposed
that
comes
from
this
development,
it's
already
in
the
section
106
for
the
outline,
and
that
will
be
a
significant
contribution
to
that
scheme.
So
the
I
can't
give
exact
timings.
I
haven't
got
those
available
to
me,
but
there
is
every
intention
that
these
works
will
be
pursued
in
in
the
short
term.
F
To
be
honest,
the
issue
is
it's
not
fully
funded,
which
I
think
the
highways
officer
was
accepting
at
this
particular
point,
and
I
was
officer
didn't
deal
with
the
vehicular
access
out
of
the
if
you
like
the
emergency
entrance
and
to
whether
it
was
or
wasn't
safe.
D
Sorry,
if
I've
missed
that
in
terms
of
the
actual
access
we
did
look
at
outline
stage
at
visibility
displays
they
are
limited,
and
that
was
the
reason
why
we
didn't
want
this
as
a
as
a
standard
access
for
for
all
traffic.
Therefore,
we
are
just
keeping
the
access
there
for
emergency
vehicles.
Emergency
vehicles
tend
to
be
higher
up,
they
tend
to
have
be
closer
in.
D
They
tend
to
have
better
better
visibility
than
standard
cars
anyway,
but
it
I
mean
this
is
used
now
for
the
local
residents
and
the
farm.
So
I
think
you
know
there
is
not
going
to
be
a
an
intensification
on
there.
B
So
to
answer
your
question,
I
don't
have
specific
figures
that
you
request,
but
you
say
you
have
those
answers,
I'm
sure
you
can
share
those
with
us.
What
I
would
like
to
just
sort
of
point
out
with
this
and
going
on
the
sustainability
points.
The
the
site
is
part
the
housing
need
across
the
city
as
you're.
B
All
fully
aware
is
the
reason
why
we
have
our
site
allocation
plan
and
our
adopted
development
plan
in
terms
of
this
development
has
been
approved
at
outline
by
a
plans
panel
and
in
terms
of
bringing
this
forward.
This
is
a
more
sustainable
site
than
bringing
forward
safeguarded
sites,
for
instance
that
there's
various
sites
in
this
local
area
which
ultimately
may
come
forward.
B
If,
if
this
didn't
go
ahead
in
terms
of
the
the
actual
emissions
of
the
individual
houses,
they
that,
as
outlined
in
in
my
report,
the
the
the
developer
has
achieved
the
the
policy
requirements
for
our
renewable
and
energy
reductions
and
goes
beyond
that,
as
as
the
development
will
be
progressed
and
phased.
F
To
share,
if
that's
helpful,
the
committee
on
climate
change
suggests
that
it's
36
000
metric
tons
of
co2
to
build
these
houses.
That's
based
on
the
being
two
bed
and
a
lot
of
them
are
bottom
and
four
bed,
and
even
at
20
30s
specifications
there
will
be
80
metric
tons
a
year
of
co2
generated.
In
contrast,
as
it
stands
at
this
particular
point,
the
site
is
absorbing
absorbing
118
metric
tons
of
co2
pf
hope.
That's
helpful.
A
I
Thanks
chair
so
councillor,
lefty
asked
one
of
my
questions
already.
Thank
you,
council
for
latte,
but
I've
noticed
there's
only
the
one
entry
point
now
I
was
I
I
was
not
elected
at
the
time
when
this
passed
as
an
outline,
so
I'm
lacking
a
little
bit
of
the
sort
of
detail
in
some
ways
as
to
as
to
how
how
it's
got
to
this
stage,
but
I
was
just
wondering
why
there's
only
the
one
highways
entry
point
when
we've
been
we've
been
told
before
that
good
design
is
to
have
two
entry
points.
I
I
was
just
wondering
why
that
was
please.
Oh
and
also
in
terms
of
the
design
of
the
buildings.
I
noticed
on
site.
There's
lots
of
really
lovely
like
victorian,
like
1970s,
really
good
quality
builds
like
and
then
stone
stone,
built
buildings
nearby,
and
I
was
just
wondering
what
which
area
was
taken
as
inspiration
for
the
design
of
the
buildings.
Please.
A
D
Thank
you
chair
at
outline
stage,
we
tried
really
hard
to
get
a
second
means
of
access
in
line
with
our
street
design
guide.
We
had
negotiations
about
whether
we
could
get
an
access
into
the
harwels
to
the
well
to
the
north.
On
that
plan,
it's
yes
to
the
north
or
or
a
second
access
onto
victoria
road.
D
It
would
have
required
the
victoria
road
access
would
have
required
demolition
of
an
existing
property
because
the
the
existing,
where
we've
got
the
emergency
access,
we
don't
have
the
width
or
the
visibility
displays
to
get
a
fully
a
safe
second
means
of
access.
So
the
discussion
very
much
centered
around
what
could
be
done
to
mitigate
the
impact
of
just
having
one
vehicular
access
and
what
we
do
and
what
we've?
D
What
you
know,
what
we
recommended
at
the
time
was
that
we
have
a
very
short
stub
road,
so
the
the
distance
between
victoria
road
and
where
the
internal
residential
roads
split
is
only
very
short
so
effectively
beyond
that
point.
You've
got
two
means
of
access
to
get
to
that
point
and
that
short
length
means
that
the
likelihood
the
risk
of
anything
happening
at
that
specific
point
is
limited
because
of
its
length.
The
access
road,
the
one
that's
yellow
on
the
plan
that's
shown-
is
a
bit
wider.
D
It
would
allow
a
bus
to
come
through
the
site
as
well,
and
it
also
therefore
helps
us
with
maintenance
and
that
side
of
things,
so
they
were
the
and
then,
of
course
we
do
have
the
emergency
vehicular
access
point,
but,
as
I've
just
said,
it
would
be
for
emergencies
only,
but
that
you
know
they
are
the
mitigating
reasons.
Why,
in
the
end
of
the
panel,
decided
that
at
outland
stage,
that
was
an
acceptable
means
of
access
for
the
site
and
that
issue
wasn't
a
reserve
matter.
It
was
decided
at
outland
stage.
N
I
do
apologize.
I
wasn't
on
the
site
with
it
this
morning
as
regards
the
character.
N
N
This
will
be
a
character
that
is
on
its
own
when
it's
established,
even
half
built
200
houses
formed
a
connected
area,
they've
taken
their
design
very
much
from
the
general
context,
there's
brick
and
stone
detailing,
and
heads
and
sills,
and
eventually
we
arrive
at
within
the
design
coding
that
we
were
happy.
N
B
Just
for
clarification,
it's
three
character
areas,
but
drawing
on
discussions
that
steve
and
myself
and
the
applicant
have
had
the
as
stephen
pointed
out,
it's
450
houses
and
trying
to
get
its
own
identity,
identity
and
community
focus
is
all
whilst
linking
it
to
a
wider
area
was
considered
very
important,
and
when
looking
with
the
improvements
to
landscaping
and
biodiversity,
that
will
actually
form
a
character
that,
whilst
there
are
verges
and
grassed
areas
in
other
parts
that
surround
that
other
estate,
this
will
have
a
strong
character
that
links
with
with
the
the
fields
that
are
beyond,
but
also
with
the
surrounding
area.
I
Yes,
I
don't
find
anything
about
the
design
offensive.
It's
just
that
I
couldn't.
I
couldn't
see
anything
of
the
surrounding
area
sort
of
incorporated.
So
I
understand
I
understand
the
the
reasoning
now
so
thank
you.
B
Could
I
just
ask
for
some
of
the
sides
to
be
brought
up
so
that
members
can
see
those
so
maybe
yeah,
slides,
20
or
21?
Perhaps,
but
if
I
could
also
just
stay
with
that
with
regards
to
the
individual
house
designs,
the
window
fenestrations,
the
palliative
materials
of
constitu
considered
to
have
a
strong
design.
I
think
it's
also
maybe
important
to
also
point
out
that
houses
as
they
as
we
try
and
improve
the
climate
at
the
the
energy
efficiency
of
these
buildings.
B
There
is
a
degree
of
these
houses
will
have
to
have,
you
know,
be
more
airtight,
so
the
overhanging
needs
that
maybe
were
traditionally
adopted,
have
to
be
a
bit
less
they're,
not
as
prominent
on
these,
but
it
in
terms
of
their
character
of
the
the
buildings
themselves
is
considered
that
they
they
are
of
good
design
in
terms
of
windows,
doors,
heads
and
hills
over
the
windows,
etc.
A
J
J
J
So,
when
you
show
us
those
images
and
they
are
bland,
we
don't
certainly
don't
set
the
blood
racing
in
design
terms,
I'm
trying
to
visualize,
because
this
is
a
big
development
over
a
long
period
of
time.
I'm
trying
to
visualize
where
you
know
if
we
start
from
here,
what
might
it
might
look
like
when
we
get
to
there?
So
can
I
ask
that
question,
which
is
not
my
original
question,
but
I've
got
a
couple
of
those.
If
I
could,
let
me
emulate
it.
B
If
I
could
take
you
to
the
chief
officer
upon
chief
on
an
officer's
report,
it
outlines
in
terms
of
the
the
the
improvements
in
terms
of
energy
efficiency
and
building.
Regs
is
the
different
renewables
and,
and
there
will
be
a
point
where
they
you
know,
the
in
terms
of
energy
efficiency
might
be
changing
in
in
terms
of
the
the
insulation
used
at
those
different
points
in
time.
But
the
appearance
of
the
buildings
is
how
it's
presented
in
these
these
drawings
and,
as
I've
said,
for
the
other
reasons,
reconciliation.
J
Okay
right,
okay,
sorry,
I
think
I
follow
that.
I
it
just
you,
you
appeared
to
imply
that
if
the
overhangs
are
going
to
be
different,
things
like
that
that
there'd
be
a
tweak
to
design.
So
all
you're
saying
to
me
is
between
phase
one
and
phase
three.
The
insulation
in
the
wall
will
get
thicker
and
that
sort
of
thing
all
right.
That's
real.
J
Right
it's
okay
right
can.
I
can
I
ask
two
lots
of
questions
normally
chair
at
this.
At
the
beginning,
you
or
say:
well,
we've
got
the
developers
here.
If
you
want
to
ask
them
some
questions,
but
you
missed
that
out
this
time.
So
I'm
assuming
the
people
behind
me
are
the
developers.
So
I've
got
three
questions
for
them.
Can.
A
I
stop
you
because
I
I
was
able
to
make
that
offer,
but
they're
all
sat
there
and
when
I,
when
you
mark,
asked
answer
the
last
question
I
thought
well,
maybe
one
of
the
developers
might
be
better
answering
that,
although
mark
answered
it
very
fine,
so
can
I
make
an
invitation
to
some
architect
or
one
of
the
developers
from
persimmons
to
come
forward?
You
can
bring
a
friend
with
you
if
you're
feeling
a
bit
lonely.
A
You
know,
I
know
it
can
be
intimidating
to
settle
on
your
own,
so
do
feel
free
to
do
that
and
if
you'd
introduce
yourself
and
then
I
think
colin
will
have
questions
to
put
to
you.
Please
thank
you.
P
Thank
you.
Chad
needs
to
bring
some
glasses
everybody's
that
far
away
from
me.
I'm
glad
there's
a
tv
in
front
of
me.
I
can
see
yes,
stuart
natkis
from
barton
wilmore.
The
planning
consultant
who
worked
on
the
outline
application
and
his
assistant
with
the
reserve
matters,
and
we
do
have
a
team
of
people
as
you've
noticed.
We've
got
ecology,
landscape,
drainage
highways
with
us.
So
if
there
is
something
very
specific
I
may
call
for
one
of
them
to
come
up
and
I
will
I'll
assist
as
best
I
can.
J
Okay,
I've
just
got
well
four
quick
questions.
Part
of
the
discussion
relates
to
different
building
standards
over
different
periods
of
time.
So
I
suppose
the
question
for
me
is
if
you
were
to
receive
planning
permission
today.
J
When
do
you
expect
to
start
on
site
and
two?
What's
the
build-out
rate,
three,
you
refer
or
there's
a
reference
in
the
the
report
to
zero
carbon
ready.
Could
you
define
zero
carbon
ready
for
me
and
the
final
one
relates
to
the
biodiversity
site,
the
extra
site?
Can
you
explain
how
that
will
be
managed
and
if,
in
effect,
public
access
maintained,
I've
got
another
officer
question
as
well.
Sorry.
P
Okay,
thank
you
so
so
the
first
three,
I
think
also
linked
to
climate
change.
I'll
give
a
broad
answer.
If
I
do
miss
anything,
forgive
me
so
at
the
moment
the
the
council
have
a
an
adopted
policy
policy,
en1
an
em2
as
well,
which
refers
to
walter.
I
think
most
of
this
is
to
do
with
climate
change
and
the
properties
themselves.
P
So
we've
got
three
different
stages
that
have
been
identified
and
I
think
the
document
was
circulated
that
members
may
have
seen
it's
on
public
access,
which
shows
those
different
phases
based
on
a
build-out
rate
of
which
will
be
somewhere
between
probably
30
to
50
homes.
A
year
now,
you'll
you'll
know
again
from
from
previous
submissions
that
have
been
made
by
people
about
leading
times.
Once
this
is
approved
at
reserve
matters,
there
will
be
conditions
to
discharge,
the
site
will
have
to
be
ready
and
then
we
will
move
on
site.
P
So
at
the
moment,
the
building
regulations
are
set
from
2013
which
require
the
amount
of
insulation,
energy
savings,
co2,
etc,
and
the
first
50
homes
have
anticipated
that
they'll
be
built
in
line
with
that.
P
P
200
homes
will
probably
be
built
before
future
homes
comes
in
and
then
the
last
250,
which
is
phase
three
on
that,
will
will
be
included
in
it
now
as
part
of
that
zero
carbon
ready,
we're
looking
at
where,
where
that
will
be
in
the
future,
in
order
to
move
towards
zero
and
carbon
homes
and
how
things
can
be
adapted
and
retrofitted.
So
there
are
things
being
looked
at,
such
as
smart
homes,
I'm
shopping,
which
everyone
around.
P
This
table's
probably
got
a
smart
meter
at
the
moment,
but
actually
some
of
you
will
probably
have
the
light
bulbs
that
you
can
switch
on
for
your
phones.
Things
like
that.
So
actually
we
can
have
smart
homes
which
will
introduce
that
we're
also
looking
at
hydrogen
as
a
power
which
again
is
being
looked
at,
but
at
the
moment,
because
we've
been
able
to
exhaust
and
begin
it's
different,
which
is
a
huge
saving
on
gas
air
source
like
heat,
etc
and
there's
also
things
that
such
as
gas
savings.
P
But
actually
the
industry
is
talking
to
people
about
how
that
can
be,
what
the
regulations
will
be
and
there's
actually
a
number
of
things
that
persimmon
are
doing
at
the
moment
with
a
couple
of
trial
sites
where
they're
looking
at
different
options
of
them.
So
one
of
them
is
germany
back
in
york,
which
you
may
be
aware
of
where
some
of
these
things
have
been
tried
out.
P
It's
effectively
a
trial
and
error,
look
at
them
and
then
also
look
at
as
we
go
forward
what
they,
the
funding,
will
be
that
comes
in
for
homeowners
as
well
and
also
in
terms
of
resources
supply
and
which
are
going
to
be
the
best
ways
in
order
to
achieve
that.
So
the
application
includes
that
policy
commitment
to
en1.
P
So
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
give
the
comfort
now
that
this
isn't
just
going
to
be
an
en1
compliance
scheme
as
it
goes
forward,
because
actually
things
are
going
to
change
and
we're
trying
to
give
some
comfort
based
on
those
leading
times
that
it
will
be
50
homes,
150
homes,
last
250,
homes
and
and
sort
of
those
dates
are
they're
not
set
in
stone
because
we
don't
know
when
they're
going
to
come
forward.
But
it
looks
like
they're
going
to
be
mid
23
and
I
think
it's
27
for
the
future
homes
25
27.
P
and
then
I
I
think
there
was
a
final
question
on
how
the
open
space
will
be
managed
and
maintained.
Was
that
correct.
J
P
J
Well,
he
gets
there
so
your
definition
of
zero
carbon
ready
is
at
a
given
point.
It
will
be
possible
to
add
or
tweak
the
the
house
itself
to
make
it.
You
appear
to
say,
80
carbon.
P
Yeah,
so
the
the
homes
won't
need
to
change.
We
wouldn't
need
to
come
back
in
with
an
application,
a
couple
of
years
to
amend
the
footprints
of
the
houses,
the
scale
of
them
or
anything
like
that
effectively,
the
shell
of
the
property
remains.
The
design
of
them
is
designed
in
that
manner
to
effectively
be
future
proof
to
enable
things
to
come
forward.
I
think
that
that
isn't
important.
It's
a
valid
point.
C
Hello,
I'm
tom
robinson,
the
landscape,
architect
working
on
this
and
to
answer
immediately
the
the
question
of
how
the
off
site
and
area
of
biodiversity
creation
would
be
managed.
There's
a
little.
It
will
be
managed
by
the
same
management
plan
that
manages
the
landscape
of
the
main
site
and
that
management
plan
will
be
not
just
the
usual
landscape
management.
Landscape
management.
You
know,
sweep
the
paths
mow,
the
grass.
C
It's
actually
worked
out
with
the
ecological
consultant,
who
is
also
here
and
because
what
what
we're
doing
on
the
public
open
some
of
the
public
open
space
areas
within
the
site
is
trying
to
broaden
the
the
biodiversity
value.
C
So
you
don't
simply
have
the
kind
of
grass
that
you've
got
out
there.
You
have
where
you
need
it,
grass
that
you
have
out
there,
but
also
some
areas
that
have
a
more
diverse
sword
and
because
that
that's
part
of
the
aspiration
for
the
what
we
might
call
the
landscape
of
the
main
housing
area
and
that's.
Why
plots
one
and
two
that
are
purely
there
for
biodiversity
creation
are
to
be
appended
to
this
and
managed
by
the
same
organization.
According
to
the
same
plan,.
C
Plot
two
sorry
jargon
terms:
it's
just
how
we
divide
this
out
plot
two
is
the
larger
biodiversity
area.
That's
in
the
bottom.
That's
it
the
the
the
bottom
right,
hand,
corner
and
and
plot
one
is
a
little
script.
That's
it
the
little
square
of
scrub.
That's
attached
to
the
the
southeastern
edge
of
the
site
overall.
J
J
The
question
I
ask
here
is
the
question
I
asked
last
time
we
talked
about
this,
which
is
what
measures
have
we
in
place
to
prevent
motorists
using
the
grass
verge
which
separates
the
two
as
a
car
parking
area.
B
Well,
I
was
just
that
there
might
be
in
terms
of
the
detailed
layout
there
might
be
ways
of
if
there's
particular
verges,
that
of
of
concern.
I
mean
round
where
the
the
middle
of
the
site,
with
the
school
there's
obviously
going
to
be
usual
traffic
regulation
orders
that
will
provide
comfort
to
local
residents.
That
areas
won't
be
parked
on
in
terms
of
the
the
coming
into
the
site.
B
The
there
are
grass
verges
there,
but
again
you
know
it
will
be
down
to
looking
at
making
sure
that
you
know
like
with
any
motorists
you
park
where
it
would
be
safe
to
park,
but
in
terms
of
the
the
provisions
of
parking
within
the
overall
site,
the
parking
provision
that
has
has
been
provided
is
is
policy
compliant.
J
J
Yes,
great
idea,
but
motorists
in
their
enthusiasm
have
a
habit
of
regarding
grass
verges
as
car
parking
areas,
and
so
the
only
way
to
prevent
them
in
effect,
moving
from
the
highway
onto
the
grass
verge,
which
is
only
a
meter
wide
plus
the
foot,
the
footpath
etc,
is
some
sort
of
barrier
now
in
some
areas
we've
talked
about.
I
think
the
street
design
guy
says
something
about
hedges.
J
B
We
can
the
applicant
might
be
best
place
to
ask
this,
because
it
might
be
something
that
we
can
work
to
put
a
planning
condition
on
to
where
there
are
points
that
of
of
particular
concern.
We
could
look
to
seek
a
condition
requiring
some
sort
of
separation,
whether
that's
some
sort
of
wooden
kneeler
fencing
that
would
provide
that
barrier,
but
also
doesn't
look
out
of
character
or
too
harsh,
and
that
would
be
something
maybe
to
ask
the
developer.
B
But
there
may
be
ways
there
to
secure
that
by
des
wells
certainly
is
a
way
to
secure.
You
know,
through
conditions,
a
means
that
would
be
acceptable
to
the
developer
and
to
yourself
there.
P
Thank
you,
so
is
it
possible
just
to
put
the
layout
plan
up
and
just
to
highlight
which
area
in
particular
the
concerns
with.
J
Okay,
if
I
look
at
the
the
map,
the
the
purple
purple
line
on
my
map,
which
you
can't
really
see
on
that
one
sorry.
J
Shows
pedestrian,
etc.
A
substantial
number
of
number
of
those
actually
pass
through
the
green
space,
so
the
one
down
past
the
down
the
school,
etc
and
down
the
bottom
of
the
map.
But
there
are
sections
which
run
from
the
entrance
adjacent
to
the
road
in
front
of
the
school
in
front
of
some
houses
along
the.
J
P
Yeah
and
particularly
near
to
the
school
as
well,
if
there's
pickups
and
drop-offs
and
at
the
point
you've
made,
I
mean
I
think
that
there
are
things
that
can
be
done
through
design
features
that
are
put
into
that.
I
think
the
grass
verges
of
a
benefit.
I
think
we'd
all
think
that
the
grass
verges
are
the
benefit
to
have
from
an
aesthetic
perspective.
But
but
it's
looking
at
ways
in
which
you
can
you
can
prevent
that
from
happening.
P
P
So,
as
the
officer
said,
that
could
be
something
like
a
low
posted
rail
fence
that
would
prevent
it
with
a
look
at
the
curb
heights
in
that
area,
and
so
there
isn't
a
drop
curb,
making
a
nice
easy
run
for
people
to
pull
up,
go
on
to
the
grass
virgin
away
from
it
and
potentially
planting
through
the
landscaping
scheme
could
come
forward
as
well.
So
it's
really
tried
to
well
and
even
gradients
of
those
verges
so
that
they
weren't
perfectly
flat
and
effectively
what
you're
trying
to
do
is
avoid
them.
P
Yeah,
absolutely
I
mean
look
if
somebody
drives
to
four
by
four
and
they
decide
that
they're
gonna
park
there,
whatever
and
they're
gonna
ride
up
on
switch.
Somebody
may
do
it,
but
actually
there's
a
number
of
things
that
you
can
do
that
prevent
99
of
people.
Thinking
I'm
going
to
go
up
in
there
and
do
it.
So
we
can
have
better
condition
with
that
and
discuss
it
with
the
officers.
A
A
H
Please
thanks
yeah,
I'm
sure
the
developers
are
not
going
anywhere
they're
very
aware
of
what
a
details
oriented
panel.
We
are
on
a
bedding
in
for
a
long
session.
I
think
we
can
see
thanks
chad,
it's
interesting,
how
time's
changed
this
this.
This
report
mentions
climate
change
a
lot
more
than
the
chancellor
did
yesterday,
which
was
zero,
brilliant
from
council
campbell's
point.
Actually
what
this,
what
this
report
does
highlight
is
what
a
what
a
changing
environment
we're
operating
in
in
terms
of
planning.
H
Why
why
do
the
fifth
first
50
dwellings,
except
you're,
probably
gonna,
get
planning
permission
in
fairly
fairly
short
order?
I
would
imagine
what
I'm
interested
to
know
is,
and
I
appreciate
the
work
that's
gone
in
to
try
to
future-proof
this
application
shoot.
I
do,
and
it
is
a
big,
a
big
improvement
in
what
was
before,
and
that's
that's
to
be
acknowledged,
and-
and
thank
you
for
that.
H
What
I'm
guessing
I'm
curious
to
know
is
why
bother
building
the
first
50
dwellings
in
the
manner
of
paragraph
38,
when
actually
the
then
the
technologies
and
the
materials
for
paragraphs
39
and
40
already
there
fit
within
your
cost
models,
which
is
generally
accepted
in
industry,
because
those
50
building
the
first
50
buildings,
highlighted
in
paragraph
38,
are
going
to
need
extensive
retrofit
in
fairly
short
order.
So
isn't
there
the
risk?
Well,
I
don't
see
the
point
of
doing
it
in
the
way
that's
set
out.
H
I
think-
and
it's
we
we
are
in
because
we're
in
this
sort
of
period
of
rapid
change
chair,
one
of
our
dangers,
is
that
buildings
are
going
to
get
permission
that
are
going
to
need
retrofitting
almost
before
they're
finished,
and
I
just
think
philosophically
is
that
the
right
thing
that
the
developer
should
be
doing.
I
accept
that
this
falls
within
the
policy
pathway
we're
in,
but
it
does
seem
nonsensical.
H
A
P
Thank
you,
chair,
there's,
sort
of
sort
of
two
options
there
isn't
there
one
is
you
almost
pause
everything
until
the
next
partel
comes
in,
so
that
we
know
what's
happening
because
we
don't
know
exactly
what
will
be
in
there
and
everyone's
currently
looking
at?
How
is
the
best
way
to
comply
with
that,
because
you
can
do
certain
things
and
say
yes
that
will
comply,
but
is
it
the
best
way
of
doing
it?
P
And
is
it
the
way
that
in
a
couple
of
years
you'll
be
doing
it
and
that's
the
preparation,
that's
currently
being
done
so
one
option
would
almost
be
to
sort
of
pause
development
for
a
couple
of
years
until
we
exactly
know
what's
happening,
which
I
don't
think
it's
beneficial
for
anyone,
because
obviously
that's
going
to
be
balanced
with
the
huge
housing
need
that
exists
at
the
moment.
So
the
other
option
is
well
d.
P
Do
you
sort
of
take
a
leap
of
faith
and
do
it
now
ahead
of
when
it
comes
forward,
but
the
danger
of
doing
that
is
is
rushing
into
something
that
yes,
there
are
aspects
that
are
highlighted
in
there,
but
actually
we're
just
investigating
those
and
looking
at
how
they
can
be
done.
The
best
ways
to
comfort
that
you
have
a
uniform
approach
to
it
and
make
sure
it
is
the
most
efficient
way
to
doing
it,
and
I
think
you
know
we
are
including
pv
on
those
early
ones.
P
But
then
we
will
be
doing
all
of
that
preparation
so
that
the
other
ones
can
come
and-
and
I
know
the
point
that
the
council
is
saying.
However,
we
think
that
that
is
the
most
appropriate
way
to
do
this.
H
I
appreciate
the
answer
to
you
are
doing
it.
I
appreciate
the
bottom
one
where
you're
not
going
to
set
possible
corporate
policy
on
the
who,
from
the
plans
panel,
no
one's
expecting
you
to
do
that,
but
we
know
what
we
need
to
do
it's.
We
can't
put
this
way
you
can't
put
on
a
part
extra
insulation
and
better
quality
windows
with
the
apollo
program.
It's
not
a
leap
of
faith.
It's
things
that
we
could
do
now,
so
I'm
just
expressing
some
frustration
that
we've
got
a
developer
coming
forward.
H
A
That
counselor
counselor
walsh
and
I
don't
think,
there's
any
need
to
answer.
They
were
comments
and
you've
already
answered
that
so
moving
on,
we
would
all
want
all
want
more.
We
would
all
want
better
and
more
greener
and
more
climate
friendly,
but
it's
I
have
to
remind
you
as
cheering
you
know
yourself
around
this
table.
It's
within
policy,
it's
well-really
policy.
A
Caroline.
Can
I
bring
you
in
next.
G
Thank
you
chair.
My
questions
have
been
covered,
but
I'd
just
like
to
push
a
couple
of
them
a
little
bit
further.
If
I
may,
the
first
one
is
about
the
school
again
and
paul
your
explanation
of
how
the
school
two-form
entry
school
works
in
terms
of
its
intake
made
it
quite
clear
that
this
particular
development
would
not
feed
a
two-for-entry
school
and
that
it
would
be
relying
quite
heavily
on
schools
on
and
around
the
area.
In
your
on,
based
on
your
understanding
of
both
the
formula
and
the
existing
schools
around
the
area.
G
O
Thank
you.
I
saw
the
the
school
the
the
provision
for
the
school
was
arranged
back
in
around
may
2017,
and
the
request
for
the
school
site
was
made
on
the
basis
that
this
site
was
being
brought
forward
ahead
of
the
site
that
was
intended
to
to
to
accommodate
a
school.
I
think
hg2
150
at
the
time,
and
so
that
this
site
replaces
the
or
would
replace
the
site
allocation
plan
provision
to
to
meet
all
of
demand
and
from
the
marley
planning
area.
O
So
the
the
site
alone
would
never
have
been,
never
yielded
enough
demand
to
to
fill
the
school
on
its
own.
Regardless
of
of
the
other
projections,
we
would
always
have
needed
some
inward
movement.
Since
2017.
There
has
been
a
change
in
the
in
the
outlook
in
terms
of
births
across
leeds
actually
across
the
the
country
and
across
the
world.
Actually,
there's
there
are.
There
is
in
a
lot
of
countries,
a
reduction
in
the
number
of
births,
and
now
and
and
the
uk
is
the
same,
and
so
his
leads.
O
So
the
the
current
outlook
in
terms
of
demand
for
molly
is
actually
downward
at
the
moment.
So
births
have
dropped
about
around
10
over
the
last
year
and
about
20
since
2017,
when
the
when
negotiations
were
were
carried
out
around
the
school.
So
at
the
moment
that
the
school
looks
less
likely
to
be
required
in
the
near
term
than
it
was
at
that
point.
O
However,
we
would
need
to
look
at
the
actual
yield
that
the
demand
that
the
the
site
generates
and,
in
addition
to
any
change
in
the
barefoot
over
the
next
few
years
before
we'd,
be
able
to
determine
accurately
whether
or
not
the
school
was
required.
So
I
guess
in
answer
at
the
moment,
there's
a
question
mark
over.
I
can't
honestly
say
that
looking
at
current
projections
that
we
could
save
for
definite
the
score
was
required.
O
At
the
moment,
looking
at
current
projections
and
current
and
the
current
birth
rate,
it's
unlikely
that
the
score
would
be
required
as
things
stand,
but
there
could
be
a
change
in
the
future
and
we'd
want
to
be
able
to
have
that
option
available
to
us.
Thank
you.
G
And
the
second
question
I
had
refers
to
the
cgi's
that
we've
got
in
front
of
us,
and
my
question
is:
how
near
to
these
cgi's?
Will
the
build-out
actually
look
because
I've
looked
at
these
in
some
detail
against
the
the
layout
on
the
first
slide
and,
first
of
all
in
street
scene,
three,
we
can
see
four
houses
and
a
tiny
little
bit
of
the
row
behind,
but
essentially
four
houses
behind
a
patch
of
green,
so
which
means,
I
think,
in
real
life.
G
If
I
was
standing
in
the
middle
of
slide,
page
20
slide
20,
I
would
only
have
four
houses
in
my
site
and
I
don't
feel
that
that's
probably
right.
G
The
second
point
to
make
is
that
on
all
these
street
scene
examples
that
you've
given
us
they're
set
behind
an
attractive
patch
of
green
and
again
looking
at
the
layout.
There
are
many
houses
that
will
not
be
set
adjacent
to
an
attractive
patch
of
green,
and
then
we've
got
some
rather
nice
mature,
pretty
looking
trees
partially
obscuring
the
parked
vehicles
that
are
depicted
in
these
street
scenes
as
well.
G
But
I
do
feel
that
when
we're
talking
about
design
and
we're
deciding,
you
know
on
types
of
sills
and
and
overhangs
and
sills
and
heads
and
overhangs
and
eaves
and
roofs.
I
really
think
that
our
new
design
guidance
suggests
that
we
do
a
great
deal
more
than
those
small
adjustments
on
the
existing
boxes
and
we
actually
think
about
contemporary
design.
B
I
think
lewis,
would
you
mind.
Putting
the
cgi's
right
at
the
end
were
done
to
enhance
those
in
light
of
the
biodiversity
improvements
that
were
have
been
made,
so
these
cgis,
unfortunately
weren't
as
part
of
your
presentation
pack
when
they
went
to
print
and
they
don't
show
any
new
material.
They
show
what
you
you
have
seen
before,
but
they
show
in
a
more
true
context
what
the
biodiversity
potentially
looks
like
and
and
gives.
Although
it's
the
focal
point
is,
is
a
bit
distant.
B
I
think
as
well
is
may
as
as
members
who
on
on
the
site
this
morning,
that
the
point
was
raised
about
what
do
a
lot
of
these
houses
look
out
onto
and
what
will
does
a
lot
more
open
space
in
this
overall
scheme
than
policy
requirements
require,
but
they
also
there's
a
lot
of
the
layout
has
also
ensured
that
there's
various
views
from
out
onto
the
existing
fields
and
and
beyond
the
site.
B
So
I
I
very
much
appreciate
council
ruins
point
that
there
will
be
streets
where
they
walk
out
on
onto
each
other,
but
the
the
housing
density
has
been
dropped
by
a
hundred
houses
over
the
outlying
content
and,
as
a
result
of
that,
has
opened
up
the
site
and
and
given
more
views
onto
open
spaces
and
beyond.
So
thank
you.
Thank
you.
A
B
A
P
P
You
know
there
is
a
very
green
feel
to
this
site
when
you
look
at
those
large
areas
of
open
space
and
even
the
first
cgi
that
was
on
with
the
four
properties
that
you
questioned
is
actually
a
a
perpendicular
roads
with
a
quantity
of
open
space
actually
looks
through
to
the
school
at
the
back
of
it.
So
you
would
actually
only
see
those
four
properties
from
that
area
around
that
little
pocket
area.
So
a
number
of
the
points
to
the
cgi's
were
to
actually
sort
of
highlight
the
open
space.
P
That's
on
there,
because
we
think
that
is
a
key
component
of
the
site.
And
yes,
whilst
there
will
be
some
runs
of
properties-
and
there
will
be
some
that's
back
in
the
in
a
more
traditional
form,
which
is
exactly
what
you
find
on
the
the
scheme
side,
the
side
of
this
site
and
actually
the
cgi's
have
sort
of
focused
on
that
to
identify
that
there
will
be
quite
a
lot
of
greenery
within
this
and
open
space,
formal,
open
space
with
informal,
open
space
as
well,
particularly
those
wilder
areas
in
the
past,
yeah
and
equal.
C
The
the
views
are
from
computer
generated
basic
drawings
from
key
locations.
It's
true
that
they
don't
show
planting
in
year
one.
What
would
the
point
of
that
be?
It
would
give
you
no
idea
of
what
the
design
concept
is
behind
it,
but,
but
I
have
here
the
locations-
and
I
I,
if
you
want,
can.
A
I
just
say
tom
though
we
couldn't
possibly
see
that
from
here.
Do
you
see
that
up
on
the
screen
and
we
we
can
do
that,
I
think.
Can
we
mark.
G
G
L
Just
quickly
to
return
back
to
the
school
site,
if
it's
not
required,
has
agreement
being
reached
as
to
what
will
happen
to
the
land.
It's
you've
got
ten
years
of
you
to
make
a
decision,
isn't
it,
but
after
the
10
years,
what
happens
to
the
land?
Is
it
referring
back
to
the
developer?
L
B
I
was
just
going
to
say
paul
as
well,
but
just
to
so
the
section
106
of
just
briefly
the
section
106
says
on
the
240th
house
has
to
be
offered
up
to
to
the
education
authority
yeah
on
on
the
chief
funding
officer's
recommendation.
There
is
a
condition
that,
until
those
houses
are
built,
the
the
actual
details
of
how
that
will
be
left
will
be
will
be
submitted
for
approval
so
ie.
So
we
can
secure
a
visual
amenity,
so
it
isn't
just
a
parcel
of
land.
B
That's
that's
visually
an
eyesore
as
to
so
we
incorporate
you
know
just
further
planting
grass
and
that
can
be
part
of
the
condition
that's
proposed
paul.
If
I
could
ask
you
to
answer
what
happens
in
the
event
that
we
don't
have
the
requirement
for
what?
What
is
the
mechanism
in
terms
of
it
going
back
to
the
developer
or.
O
Thanks,
I
don't
think
I
can
honestly
answer,
but
what
I
can
say
is
that
the
land
doesn't
actually
transfer
over
to
the
to
the
local
authority
unless
we
request
that
to
happen
so
that
we
that
we,
it
would
be
negotiated
at
market
rate.
I
believe
if
we
wanted
to
purchase
that
land
to
construct
the
school,
but
when
we
have
that
offer
up
and
in
line
with
the
the
terms
of
the
s106
agreement.
But
if
we
don't
take
up
the
offer,
then
I'm
not
sure
what
the
position
would
be
with
the
land.
B
Thank
you
so
in
terms
of,
if
it's
then
the
developer,
we
would
have
to
look
at
an
application
that
would
have
to
be
brought
forward
for
the
by
the
applicant
or
it
might
be
left
as
it
is
in
perpetuity.
But
that
is
something
that
we
would
have
to.
The
developer
would
have
to
to
look
at
further,
but
there
is
the
condition
there
to
make
sure
that
it's
integrated
until
at
that
point
that
we
know
whether
it
gets
the
requirements
there
for
the
school
yeah.
L
I
just
think
we
could
get
some
better
safeguards
for
that,
for
example,
in
my
ward
there's
an
example
of
this
happening,
and
the
developer
has
agreed
on
at
least
on
half
of
that
particular
site,
because
it's
two
different
developers,
I've
got
the
school
site.
One
of
them
is
willing
to
gift
it
back
to
the
community
at
zero
cost,
so
that
the
community
can
then
build
it
into
whatever
it
is.
L
But
I
don't
think
many
of
us
have
got
much
confidence
that
whatever
is
agreed
that
they
will
actually
be
enforced
against
and
you
could
end
up
having
conflicts,
because
by
the
time
this
happens,
these
houses-
some
of
these
houses,
will
be
sold
for
the
third
time
by
10
years
in
terms
of
turnover,
because
that's
the
way
that
new
your
new
people
stay
in
them
for
two
or
three
years.
They
then
sell
them
on,
etc,
etc.
L
So
it
could
be
very
difficult
for
the
forthcoming
unless
they've
got
something
to
fall
back
on
and
something
in
their
dates.
But
anyway
I've
made
the
point.
I've
made
the
point
you
mentioned:
tros
are
the
tros
going
to
be
implemented
up
front,
or
is
it
that
you're
getting
funding
to
implement
the
tros
if
the
school
site
goes
ahead
or
are
they
going
to
be
done
in
from
day
one
put
in
place
from
day?
One.
D
Yeah,
we
wouldn't
put
them
in
from
day
one
there'd
be
tro's,
but
there'd
also
be
school,
keep
clear
markings
and
they
wouldn't
be
appropriate.
So
it
would
be
the
funding.
L
Right
so
you
might
have
conflict
with
the
residents
who
have
moved
in
because
again,
will
the
developer
be
marketing
the
houses
here
saying
you
might
be
overlooking
a
house
a
school?
If
you
purchase
this
because
how
many
times
on
development
sites
do
people
come
along
and
say?
Well,
nobody
told
me
there
was
going
to
be
a
school
here
and
all
of
a
sudden
they've
got
a
school
here
and
it
does
have
a
difference.
L
L
L
So
if
you
look
at
the
one
on
which
well
it's
page
five
map
three
and
you
go
up
to
the
very
top
above
the
seven
you
go
up
above
the
seven.
There
are
two
properties:
past
the
hatched
or
well.
What
looks
like
a
hat
star
if
it's
maybe
just
be
text,
that's
on
it
and
then,
if
you
look
at
the
same
one
on
page
fifth
page
seven
again,
it
looks
as
though
there
are
two
houses
above
where
you
would
logically
put
to
the
ballards.
L
What
have
you
looked
at
the
phasing
here?
Because
if
all
of
a
sudden,
these
houses
along
the
top
get
built
first,
people
might
get
used
to
coming
out
of
the
non-entrance,
because
you
want
to
put
the
ballers
in
at
day
one.
So
people
will
get
it
by
custom
and
practice
and
then
on
the
presumption
that
in
ten
years
time,
because
the
finnegan
is
still
councillor,
finnegan
he's
going
to
get
residents
saying
well,
I've
done
this
for
the
last
10
years
and
now
you're
suddenly
closing
it
off.
L
What
are
you
going
to
do
now
to
keep
it
open,
and
that
was-
and
that
was
not
the
intention
of
the
planning
application.
So
how
are
you
going
to
ensure
that
that
scenario
does
not
occur,
because
I
can
assure
you
it
does
occur
that
when
you
try
to
do
one
thing,
you
don't
do
it
immediately
residents
then
say:
well,
I've
been
quite
happy
driving
out
of
this
way.
I
want
to
continue
doing
so.
How
do
you
safeguard
that
one.
A
We've
also
come
across
householders
who
maintain
the
green
grass
in
front
of
it,
and
do
it
and
look
after
everybody.
L
A
B
Ensure
that,
on
the
outline
planning
permission,
there
was
a
pre-commencement
condition
regarding
the
emergency
access,
so
the
details
of
that
will
mean
that
we
can
ensure
that
the
bollard
is
put
in
prior
to
the
commencement
of
the
entire
scheme
so
that
there
won't
be
the
future.
We've
used
this
access
issue
so.
B
L
Thoughts,
that's
the
potential
errors.
The
next
one
is,
and
it
was
following
up
on
the
point
that
council
wall
shaw
made
in
terms
of
I
totally
100
agree
that
I
was
going
to
ask
the
question
in
terms
of
what
volunt,
what
have
has
the
developer
volunteered
to
comply
with
in
terms
of
our
emerging
policy
changes
so
that
we
can
build
because
otherwise,
someone's
going
to
have
to
pick
up
the
bill
for
the
retrofitting?
L
So
is
there
any
way,
if
they're
not
that
we
can
get
a
fund
from
them
so
that
when
the
houses
are
not
in
compliance
can
be
drawn
down
so
that
they
can
then
comply
when
the
new
standards
are
there?
Otherwise
it
will
fall
to
lead
city
council
to
have
to
find
the
money
to
retrofit
these
houses,
because
very
very
quickly.
It's
going
to
be
happening
because
we
need
to
retrofit
vast
majority,
if
not
all,
of
the
houses
in
this
city-
and
this
is
some
that
would
be
less.
L
B
Unfortunately,
the
unfortunately
not
because
the
outlying
consent
dealt
with
the
our
policy
requirements
and,
as
as
chair
said
earlier,
it
is
a
policy
compliance
scheme.
So
there
would
be
nothing
that
we
could
enter
a
further
legal
agreement
because
the
legal
agreement
was
written
at
the
outline
consent
and
in
this
respect,
the
the
policy
has
been
complied
with
with
regards
to
the
the
en1
and
ian
ii.
So,
unfortunately,
okay.
L
So
you
are
confirming
that
there
might
be
a
hundred
and
round
150
houses
might
be
built
by
the
time
these
new
standards
come
in,
and
you
are
saying
on
behalf
of
the
council
that
the
council
accept
that
they
would
need
to
try
and
find
some
funding
in
order
to
retrofit
those
houses
through
some
method
either
going
to
the
government
or
from
their
own
resources.
I.
L
B
But
but
if,
if
the
housings
as
they've
in
this
in
the
document
and
what
they've
put
forward
they're
saying
that
the
projections
are
that
they
will
they'll
obviously
have
to
meet
the
building
regs
requirements
of
those
times.
So
it
will.
What
they're
saying
and
I'm
explaining
that
it
meets
the
policy
and
they're
going
beyond
that
and
in
terms
of
when
the
houses
are
built
out.
That
is
something
that
the
developer
would
be
able
to.
L
L
Because
well,
but
the
point
is
who's
going
is
that
we've
got
we're
giving
agreement
just
now
that
every
house
is
going
to
have
an
electric
point
outside
it,
which
I
agree
with
as
of
today,
it's.
How
do
we
make
sure
that,
because
they're
still
building
new
houses
out
they'll
be
quite
able
to
build
them
with
electric
points,
but
there
might
actually
be
the
demand
for
some
other
technology,
because
I
remember
back
to
the
site
allocations
plan
when
we
were
discussing
these
types
of
things
and
the
developers
didn't
want
electric
points
being
put
in
at
day.
L
One
never
mind
doing
it
now,
they've
done
it
now,
but
they
argued
at
the
inquiry
that
I
was
at
that
there
should
be
no
guarantee
that
electric
points
be
put
in.
That
was
their
argument
that
they
made
at
the
time,
rightly
or
wrongly.
So
how
are
you
going
to
ensure
that
counselor
finnegan
does
not
have
problems
in
his
area
in
the
future?
I.
B
Think
the
applicant
rightly
pointed
out
earlier
on.
This
is
why,
at
the
moment
that
it
has,
they
are
investigating,
which
are
the
the
most
feasible
and
what
will
be
most
deliverable.
So
at
this
moment
in
time,
it's
policy
compliant
and
there
will
be
ways
that
they're
making
sure
that
they're
investigating
it
thoroughly
enough
so
that
they
can
bring
online.
B
What
is
going
to
be
best
for
future,
so
that
you're,
not
in
a
position
where
hydrogen
cars,
for
instance,
will
will
probably
be
the
next
big
climate
emergency
push,
and
and
that's
why,
but
it
this
is
all
in
the
future.
And
that's
what
the
developer
the
the
applicant
has
tried
to
address
earlier,
and
I
feel
that
common.
A
I
I
think
we
just
have
to
remind
ourselves
that
we're
looking
at
the
application
before
us.
We
can't
second
guess
where
anything,
that's
going
to
happen
in
the
future.
Going
back
to
what
mark
has
said
a
number
of
times,
it
meets
existing
policies.
We
can't
fool
proof.
Everything
and
the
council
aren't
very
good
at
retrofitting,
because
it
seems
to
me
that
we
had
loads
of
private
flats
built
in
this
city
that
had
cladding
on,
and
the
council
certainly
hasn't
come
to
the
rescue
on
it,
they're
dependent
on
the
government
on
that
type
of
thing.
N
It
was
just
to
come
back
on
the
ev
charging
points.
I
mean
the
commercial
the
market
already
had
electric
vehicles
at
that
point.
We've
got
as
far
as
I'm
aware:
there's
no
sort
of
commercial
activity
in
relation
to
hydrogen
cars
as
yet.
So
I
think
that
would
be
sort
of
going
far
beyond
what
we
can
do
reasonably.
As
a
planning
authority.
N
K
I
was
desperately
trying
to
come
up
with
a
question
about
where
we're
going
to
get
the
the
carport
for
the
levitate
for
the
levitating
cars
which
I'm
assuming
that
that's
been
built
into
this
allah
jetson's
the
future.
Now
I
just
want
some
clarification
because
it's
been
brought
up
a
couple
of
times.
Am
I
correct
in
my
belief
that
it
is
not
open
to
us
to
revisit
in
any
way
shape
or
form
the
fact
that
there
is
only
one
entry
to
this
development.
N
O
N
I
N
Ma
mark's
already,
as
you
say,
it's
already
confirmed
that
this
not
on
the
table
today
that
was
dealt
with
at
the
reserve
at
the
outline
stage
that
was
approved
at
the
outline
stage.
This
is
very
much
looking
at
the
details
set
out
in
terms
of
reserve
matters
of
landscaping,
design,
access
and
layout,
not
accessing
layouts
and
appearance.
N
So
therefore
it
is
set
at
that
point.
It's
very
difficult
for
us.
Looking
at
these
particular
details
to
now
seek
to
revisit
that
one.
Virtually
it's
impossible
should
I
say.
K
D
I
haven't
got
a
different
view.
I
don't
think,
but
the
there's
been
no
change
in
our
policy
position
since
the
outline
stage.
That
would
mean
that
I,
in
my
opinion,
that
we
could
revisit
that
issue.
Therefore,
it's
it's
not
a
matter
for
this
reserve
matters.
E
So
I'm
a
bit
surprised
now
to
find
that
the
the
emergency
entrance
is
has
now
been
close
to
to
people
accessing
the
estate
and
we've
got
450
houses
there
and
what
it
means
is
that
traffic
will
be
driving
around
estate
streets.
It
has
to
do
and
we
really
want
to
cut
that
down.
So
that
wasn't
the
question
I
was
going
to
ask,
but
I
I
just
have
to
say
that
we
were
concerned.
So
how
has
this
been
given
outline
permission?
M
A
B
I
wasn't
no,
but
I
would
just
say
it
was
outline
planning.
Consent
was
granted
on
that
basis,
but
in
terms
of
what
we've
achieved
here
which
goes
beyond
that
is
creating
infrastructure
that
is
a
much
bigger
road
and
what
we're
bringing
from
the
original
plan
that
you
was
in
front
of
you
in
july.
This
is
the
spinal
road
is
significantly
bigger,
so
I
just
add
that
into
the
mix,
but
it
was
approved.
A
E
I
do
but
firstly
I
don't
accept
that
I
was
here
and
I
heard
it
said,
and
I
accept
that
there's
been
a
wider
road
being
provided,
but
I'm
very
disappointed
that
the
panel's
views
were
not
reflected
in
the
outline
permission
right.
The
question
that
I've
been
waiting
and
to
ask
is
that
I
heard
what
the
developers
say
about
the
design
of
the
houses.
Following
the
most
I
was
going
to
say
economic,
the
most
fuel
efficient,
the
most
so
that
there
isn't
an
escaping
of
heat.
E
No,
no
fancy
bits,
apart
from
the
sills
around
the
windows
and
and
the
doors
being
rather
different.
E
They
and
I
I
it's
rather
like
the
bauhaus
group
form
following
function,
and
I
I
I'd
like
to
know
what
can
be
done
to
improve
the
appearance
of
these
houses
and
I
don't
accept
that
it's
a
character
of
their
own
and
I
think
I've
always
said
unrelieved
brick
is
boring
and
that
is
unrelieved.
B
In
terms
of
the
design
we've,
the
the
design
has
been
discussed
at
once
with
the
applicant
and
with
urban
design.
Colleagues
and
the
the
design
approach
in
terms
of
the
individual
houses
is
considered
to
be
a
good
quality
design.
B
There
will
be
there's
conditions
on
the
approval
on
any
approval
and
on
the
outline
consent
to
make
sure
that
the
quality
of
materials
is
is,
is
appropriate
and,
and
that
will
be
what
makes
the
scheme
is,
the
quality
of
the
ski
quality
of
the
materials,
but
also
as
we
keep
touching
on
the
the
lens.
E
I've
heard
everything:
now
the
design
of
a
house
depends
on
whether
there's
a
hedge
around
it.
That's
ridiculous
these
these.
Well,
that's
what
it
amounted
to
these
houses
look
boring.
They
are,
they
are
bland
and
they
are
dull
and
I'm
the
question.
I've
asked
what
can
be
done
to
to
improve
them.
Some
of
the
houses
have
got
render
on
which
relieves
the
the
uniformness
of
it,
but
I
well
I
I
can
go
on
to
make
comments,
but
I
already
have
had
a
lot,
but
I
my
question
is:
what
can
we
done
to
improve
this.
A
At
least
you
know-
and
I
know
that
we
all
have
different
opinions-
I
do
notice
that
the
doors
are
the
entrance.
Doors
are
where
you
prefer
them.
You
don't
like
to
see
two
in
the
middle
next
to
each
other.
So
that's
that's
an
improvement.
Can
I
invite
you
in
to
make
a
comment?
Please?
Because
I'm
not
sure
where
we're
going
on
this.
P
Thank
you
chair.
The
the
dolls
on
the
outside
are
a
deliberate
positioning
there
on
on
request
of
office
as
well.
You'll
be
glad
to
know
the
design
of
this
government.
We've
talked
about
it
a
few
times
that
this
is
a
reserve
matters.
So
it's
looking
at
the
layout
the
appearance
scale
and
the
landscaping
and
the
outline
application
was
accompanied
by
very
detailed
design
and
access
statement.
P
It
was
about
50
pages
long
and
it
went
through
a
number
of
iterations
with
officers
looking
at
a
broad
layout,
which
is
very
similar
to
what
we
have
a
street
hierarchy,
an
opportunity
for
where
the
parking
will
go,
how
the
properties
will
be
doing
in
terms
of
the
scale,
the
materials,
the
mix,
the
densities,
the
the
house,
types
etc,
and
as
part
of
that,
it
looks
taking
the
character
then-
and
this
application's
actually
gone
beyond
that
in
terms
of
where
it
was.
I
think
it's
been
talked
about
a
few
times.
P
And,
as
you
can
see,
it
ensures
that
there
isn't
that
car
dominant.
Now.
What
what
design
policies
tell
us
to
look
at
are
look
at
the
character
of
the
area,
look
at
the
surrounding
areas
and
that
again
comes
into
matters
of
scale,
density,
etc,
and
also
we
should
create
things
that
harm
areas
when
there
was
a
commentary
about
where.
Where
would
the
design
ideas
been
taken
from?
P
P
It
isn't
just
render
throughout
actually,
as
you
transition
from
one
area
into
another
you'll
notice,
different
densities,
different
house
types,
different
massing
and
different
materials,
so
it
does
start
to
break
up
those
character
areas
so,
on
the
on
the
whole,
as
the
chair
said,
but
design
is
very
subjective
to
different
people.
One
person
may
like
render
one
person
may
like
brick,
one
person
may
like
stone,
we
have
to
look
it
in
the
round.
Then
we
have
to
look.
It's
going.
P
There's
been
an
awful
lot
of
effort
put
in
with
officers
to
look
at
this
and
the
design
officers
to
get
something
that
that
moves.
One
way
it
was
originally
and
we
think
we've
come
up
with
a
really
well
designed
laid
out
scheme
and
that
actually
has
some
variation
in
their
good
fenestration
chimneys
on
properties,
which
you
sometimes
don't
see
and,
and
we
think
that
it,
it
addresses
this
large
site
in
a
suitable
manner.
G
Thank
you.
I've
got
two
questions.
First
of
all,
you
just
mentioned
chimneys
and
I
wondered
why
some
of
them
have
got
chimneys
and
some
haven't
and
I
don't
understand
the
phrase
chimneys
to
focal
houses.
Could
you
please
clarify.
P
It's
again,
I
think
it's
just
to
look
at
those
different
character,
areas
and
break
up
the
street
scene,
so
that
not
every
property
is
uniform.
Not
everyone
has
chimneys
it.
Well,
you
can
see
on
the
screen.
That's
in
front
of
us
there
it
it
shows
the
break
up
on
the
streets
and
the
focal
areas
will
probably
be
corner
properties,
key
vistas
that
type
of
thing.
So
again,
it
just
draws
something
different
to
the
eye
and
provides
it.
G
I
see
okay,
thank
you
and
the
other
one
is
about
safety.
I
see
in
paragraph
68
designing
out
crime.
It
really
focuses
on
crime
as
in
theft
burglary,
as
opposed
to
what
might
happen
to
someone
who's
walking,
perhaps
from
one
house
to
another
at
night
or
coming
into
the
area,
having
got
off
a
bus
or
walking
into
through
the
access
road.
G
And
could
you
please
clarify
what
measures
will
be
taken
to
ensure
that
people
are
safe
as
they
possibly
can
and,
moreover,
not
just
are
as
safe,
but
can
perceive
it
as
a
safe
area
and
particularly
also
while
the
building
is
going
on?
You
mentioned
that
50
houses
would
be
built
and
filled,
and
then
the
rest
of
the
site
would
carry
on
over
time.
How
will
they
feel
that
they
are
safe
and
indeed
be
safe
from
all
sorts
of
different
threats
that
might
occur.
P
Thank
you
councillor.
I
think,
when
you
ask
that
question
to
most
people,
they'll
immediately
go
lighting
and
and
say
that
we're
going
to
put
lighting
in
and
there's
a
there's,
a
great
book
written
by
a
lady
called
jay
jacobs
who
looks
at
this,
and
she
highlighted
the
fact
where
would
you
feel
more
safe
in
an
area
underneath
a
lamppost
with
nothing
else
and
nobody
around
you
or
sat
in
a
cinema
where
there's
no
lighting
whatsoever
but
lots
of
other
people?
P
I
think
that's
the
key
element
to
this,
that
it's
all
about
having
eyes
on
the
street
and
having
areas
that
other
people
have
and
people
can
see
it,
and
you
can
see
from
a
lot
of
those
open
spaces
that
they're
actually
looking
at
routes
between
places
so
that
you
will
get
cyclists.
You
will
get
pedestrians
and
people
using
them,
but
they're
actually
overlooked
by
properties
as
well,
so
that
actually,
as
you're
using
those
spaces,
you
can
see.
P
Other
properties
are
looking
onto
it,
so
that
you
don't
have
that
feeling
of
exposure
that
there's
nobody
else
there.
So
actually
it
provides
it
and
I
think
that
can
come
together
with
landscaping
as
well,
so
that
you
don't
create
high
boundaries
around
walkways
so
that
people
can't
be
seen.
So
it
immediately
gives
you
that
feeling
of
safety
that
can
then
be
combined
with
lighting
so
that
actually
it
is
open
and
that
you
don't
have
these
dark
areas.
P
So
it's
a
it's
a
really
interesting
point
that
is
often
looked
at
with
these,
and
we
maybe
don't
talk
about
it,
often
enough
because
it
does
get
factored
in,
and
so
it's
it's
ensuring
that
that
the
first
50,
as
you
mentioned,
the
way
that
the
the
the
phasing
will
go
is
that
the
50
are
actually
very
close
together.
So
you
don't
have
them
in
a
long
line
where,
if
you're
the
50th
house
away
from
everybody,
nobody
else
knows
what's
going
on,
they
will
actually
be
in
a
cluster
on
the
the
north
western
corner.
G
Okay,
yes,
that's
fine!
Thank
you.
I
think
I've
said
this
before,
but
it
would
have
been
useful
if
that
had
actually
been
included
in
the
description
previously.
So
I
didn't
have
to
ask
it,
but
thank
you,
I'm
happy
and
I
agree
with
what
you
say
about
lighting
people
do
say
that,
and
yet
it
creates
pools
of
total
darkness
outside
of
the
light
which
is
actually
less
safe
in
the
end.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you
all.
It's
a
question
that
regarding
safety,
that
you
always
raise
and
you'd
quite
right
to
do
so.
Moving
on
I've
got
robert
robert,
you
and
they're.
Still
here
robert,
they
haven't
gone
for
a
coffee.
Europe.
F
No,
no
and
absolutely
still
fascinated
by
what's
being
said
and
for
the
first
time
agree
with
that
council,
whilst
you're
on
something
that
is
cubs
wallop,
but
leaving
that
aside,
I
know
it's
dangerous
new
area
for
me,
but
you
may
well
be
right
on
this
occasion
right
two
questions
for
the
developer.
F
If
we
agree
450
houses
under
en1
at
this
particular
point
based
upon
what
en1
says
today,
you're
under
no
planning
obligations
to
do
anything
more
regardless
of
what
else
changes.
If
we
come
up
with
a
new
en1
next
year
or
in
two
years
time
or
in
five
years
time,
whatever
it
might
actually
be,
you
can
go
for
the
minimum,
which
is
what
we've
agreed
at
this
particular
point.
Planning
regulations
may
change.
Government
legislation
may
change,
but
at
this
particular
point
under
your
planning
obligations
we
agree
450
under
en1.
F
All
you
have
to
do
is
hit
en1
as
it
stands
today
on
those
450
properties.
So
that's
one
question
second
question
is
if,
as
my
children
services
colleague
has
suggested
or
implied,
there
might
not
be
a
need
for
a
school
we're
going
to
come
to
him
in
a
moment.
How
many
houses
can
you
get
on
1.8
hectares,
which
is
the
space
that
you'd
have
because
my
view
is
if
they
don't
come
up
with
a
school
at
that
particular
location?
You'll,
come
back
with
an
application
to
say
more
houses
on
that
particular
point.
F
So
I'd
like
to
know
the
numbers,
so
that's
for
the
developer
in
terms
of
children's
services
2003.
Some
of
your
colleagues
believed
me
and
council
eddie
at
that
particular
point
about
falling
birth
rates
at
that
particular
stage,
and
you
decided
that
sure
will
go
from
a
three-fold
entry
down
to
a
two-form
entry.
F
Your
colleagues
came
along
in
about
2013
and
said:
actually,
we've
got
those
figures
wrong
and
the
birth
rate's
spiraling
at
this
particular
point:
ask
with
primary
needs
to
go
from
one
form:
entry
to
a
two-form
entry
to
expand
to
include
those
extra
children.
F
Last
decade
we've
had
some
fair
in
the
region
of
1500
houses
on
greenfield
sites
in
marley,
and
even
I
agree
with
your
figures,
the
0.25
for
the
household
at
that
particular
point.
That's
300
extra
kids
in
the
area
that
wouldn't
have
been
in
this
particular
area.
If
we
added
113
and
agree
with
the
figures,
the
numbers
that
we
generated
this
particular
site-
that's
400
and
going
to
my
figures-
thousand
odd
kids.
F
How
do
we
not
need
a
new
primary
school
based
upon
that
and
based
upon
the
fact
that
your
predictions
in
the
past
haven't
been
entirely
accurate?
Thank
you.
A
Sorry
shall
we
start
with
that,
one
paul
and
we'll
go
on
to
policy
there's
mark
here
and
john.
There
can
talk
about
the
policy
side
of
it.
O
Thank
you,
sir
okay.
Well,
I
will
just
start
by
saying
that
the
expansion
of
ask
with
and
the
chairworld
decision
will
be
far.
I
joined
the
team.
So
I'm
not
aware
entirely
of
the
of
the
circumstances.
O
Then,
however,
knowing
the
the
marley
planning
area
as
I
do,
I
I
believe
we've
had
sufficient
capacity
in
the
system
to
be
able
to
absorb
the
housing
generated
demand
today
and
the
the
general
population
grew
up
as
well.
In
addition
to
that
over
the
previous
10
years,
without
requiring
to
any
any
additional
places,
I
mean.
O
That's
that's
not
played
out
in
terms
of
the
the
allocations
and
the
fact
that
we
do
operate
generally
and
molly
with
a
small
amount
of
surplus
capacity
available,
which
is
within
the
limits
of
what
we
would.
O
We
would
want
in
an
area
to
allow
for
in-ear
movement
as
well,
and
the
the
the
change
going
forward
is,
as
I've
already
said,
is
the
the
bear
freight
which
is
based
on
factual
nhs
data,
which
is
provided
to
us
from
nhs
leads
and
nhs
bradford
and
is
then
broken
down
into
the
the
planning
area
levels
that
we
we
we
plan
by,
and
that
indicates
or
shows
a
a
reduction
in
births
coming
through,
which
will
hit
in
marley
around
2020,
well
2024
and
2025.
O
But
there
has
been
some
reduction
since
since
2017
on
onwards,
when
we
saw
the
plateau
around
the
the
the
the
high
point
in
leeds
generally.
So
the
the
the
figures
are
what
they
are
really
they
just.
O
They
do
suggest
that
we
will
be
seeing
at
the
moment
an
increase
in
in
surplus
capacity
in
mali
as
as
well
as
a
lot
of
other
parts
of
the
city
coming
through
from
around
23
24
onwards,
and
we
we
will
monitor
that
if
there's
any
uptick
in
inverse,
then
that
will
obviously
change
the
view
again.
But
we
we
can
only
work
on
the
on
the
data
that
we
get
and
then
translate
that
into
into
forecasts.
J
B
B
Apologies,
how
many
houses
you
could
get
on
that
possible
one
for
that
it's
allocated
for
the
school
it
should
be.
I
should
just
clarify
again
that
the
outline
planning
permission
was
for
550
houses,
so
looking
at
the
density
of
the
site
as
a
whole
in
terms
of
looking
at
the
future
of
that
society,
the
school
doesn't
come
forward.
B
That
would,
as
I
think
I
might
have
touched
on
earlier,
it
would
be
an
issue
that
would
need
to
look
at
what
the
developer
proposes
at
that
point
in
time
and
we'd
have
to
assess
it
on
the
the
current
local
and
national
policies,
and-
and
that
would
would
be
something
that
we
obviously
can't
comment
on,
because
we'd
have
to
have
a
look
at
what
the
housing
supply
needs
of
the
city
and
the
area
are
at
that
moment
in
time.
B
H
Me
again
chair
my
regular
comment
that
not
for
nothing,
we
were
valued
for
money
for
the
people
who
leads
with
the
detail
we've
got
into
this
afternoon
chair.
This
is
more
of
a
comment
than
a
question.
K
Thank
you,
chair
councillor,
walsh,
slightly
premature
colleagues
will
be
aware,
as
a
colleague
some
colleagues
will
be
aware
on
the
16th
of
march
2017
this
matter.
K
The
outline
matter
was
determined
by
this
plans
panel
and
indeed
councillor
garth,
waite
and
councillor
anderson,
along
with
yourself
chair,
I
think,
were
the
councillor
campbell
as
well,
who
had
a
motion
defeated
on
this
application
at
that
meeting,
were
the
only
colleagues
that
were
there
at
that
meeting.
I
think
liz
I'll
check
in
a
sec,
but
I
would
like
to
read
part
of
the
minutes
for
that,
because
it's
quite
relevant
in
response
to
members
comments
and
questions
the
following
were
discussed.
K
D
I'm
pretty
sure
I
was
at
the
panel,
but
the
I
mean
you
know.
The
highways
offices
did
object
to
this
application
when
it
first
came
in
on
the
basis
of
one
means
of
access.
Only
as
I
said
earlier,
we
tried
every
which
way
to
get
that
second
means
of
access,
and
there
wasn't
one
forthcoming
that
was
safe
and
deliverable.
D
So
in
my
that
was
the
that
you
know
that
position
was
put
to
the
panel.
I
certainly
wasn't
in.
I
haven't
got
the
mints
in
front
of
me,
but
I
wasn't
aware
that
any
minutes
suggested
this.
It
wasn't
to
be
approved
if,
if
that
second
means
of
access
couldn't
be
delivered,
I
don't
recall
that
either.
K
Thanks
you
did
share
and
I'm
sure,
as
as
well
as
always
councillor
walshaw,
I
think
made
a
really
important
point
and
I'd
say
this
without
genuinely
that
any
levity
he
said
this
panel
gives
leads
real
value
for
money.
We'll
check
that
that's
true,
we
do,
but
if
we
say
something
unequivocally
we're
only
giving
value
for
money.
If
officers
then
translate
that
into
the
decisions
they
then
make.
K
A
second
access
point
required
pursuing
is
fairly
unequivocal.
That's
what
was
minuted.
Those
are
the
minutes
that
were
approved.
N
Yeah,
I
think
just
thinking
about
it
further.
Clearly
there
was
a
resolution
to
grant
on
the
plans
that
were
in
front
of
panel.
At
that
point
it
may
have
been
in
relation.
The
discussion
may
have
been
in
relation
to
an
emergency
access,
a
second
means
of
access
for
emergency
vehicles,
so
that
the
minutes
may
not
have
expanded
to
that
point,
but
the
decision
would
have
been
made
on
the
plans
in
front
of
the
panel
as
it
is
every
time
and
clearly
the
chair
yeah.
A
Members
were
aware
that
there
was
only
going
to
be
one
access
we
were
aware
of.
The
emergency
would
be
unsuitable
unless
there
was
demolition
of
nearby
properties
to
to
get
the
the
site
sprays
as
julian
has
outlined,
but
I
just
have
to
remind
you
that
we
did
pass
it
on
that
ground.
You
know
now
the
minutes
you
brought
up.
It
may
have
been
a
comment
by
a
member.
I
don't
know,
I
can't.
M
M
It
is
possible
when
looking
at
an
estate
to
say
yes
that
was
built
by
x
or
by
x,
persimmon
have
a
sort
of
look
about
them.
Other
developers
have
a
look
about
them.
Would
would
you
please
hand
on
heart,
tell
me
that
design
in
your
case
means
designing
houses
for
a
particular
plot
or
site,
as
opposed
to
picking
the
designs
that
you
have
and
saying.
That's,
probably
the
most
appropriate
for
here.
P
Thank
you
yeah.
I
mean
I
mean
house
types,
get
a
bit
of
a
bashing
by
being
designed
already
and
being
brought
onto
sites,
but
on
some
sites
they
are
appropriate
and
you
you
can
use
them
and,
and
what
usually
happens
is
as
a
base.
P
Those
house
types
will
form
it,
but
then
you
can
tweak
those
and
you
can
amend
them
to
look
at
certain
areas,
because
if
you
just
took
the
exact
same
site
to
every
single
plot,
you
wouldn't
get
planning
permission
very
often,
because
you
have
to
look
at
the
form
and
you
have
to
look
at
the
character.
I
mean
in
terms
of
this
site
the
the
outline
application
I
mentioned.
They
had
a
very
detailed
design
and
access
statement
so
that
we
actually
started
looking
at
these
elements
right
back
at
the
outline
stage.
It's
about
50
pages
long.
P
It
has
indicative
street
scenes
and
it
talks
about
road
hierarchies
layouts,
and
it
also
looks
at
key
vistas
key
points,
corner,
turners,
etc,
so
that
all
of
those
had
to
be
attributed
to
when
the
reserve
matters
came
in,
so
that
this
application
has
then
taken
all
of
those
aspects
of
it
and
brought
them
in
to
look
at
it,
so
that
it
has
a
whole
range
of
different
house
types
varieties
and
I
think,
on
this
site
they
have
been
amended
in
line
with
discussions
so
that
they
meet
those
bespoke
requirements,
and
I
think
the
officers
report
references
the
word
bespoke.
P
Our
view
definitely
is
that
they
have
been
because
these
are
properties
that
we've
we've
taken
a
a
you
know.
Ultimately,
houses
need
windows
at
the
front
and
back
in
the
front
door,
and
they
need
certain
rooms
to
be
included
within
them,
and
you
build
around
that
to
look
at
the
character
of
the
area,
so
the
heights
have
changed
in
some
of
them:
the
roof
pitches,
the
inclusion
of
chimneys,
some
of
the
fenestration
details,
the
gaps
between
them.
P
The
brick
data
detailing
above
the
windows,
et
cetera,
have
all
been
brought
into
this
site
through
discussions
with
the
officers
they're
not
just
brought
off
the
shelf
as
it
were,
and
put
into
a
layout,
they've
been
being
worked
through
with
them.
So
so,
yes,
they're
they're,
not
standardized
house
types.
They
have
been
designed
and
looked
at
how
they
fit
into
this
site.
M
Thank
you
as
far
as
it
goes,
but
what
you've
really
said
to
me
is
that,
yes,
we
do
have
designs
and
we
tweak
them
effectively
so
that
you
know
the
basic
shape
of
a
house
doesn't
really
change
unless
you
put
a
chimney
on
it
and
I
get
boring
about
chimneys.
So
we
won't
go
into
that
at
the
moment.
M
But
apart
from
to
thank
you
for
having
put
some
chimneys
on
some
of
these
houses,
but
you
know
you
haven't,
sat
down
with
a
blank
paper
and
said
for
sure
will
this
is
what
we
want
to
build
and
you've
actually
tweaked
designs
that
you
already
have.
P
So
apologies
I
didn't.
I
didn't
mean
to
to
give
that
impression,
because
I
was
just
giving
an
introduction
as
to
how
that
may
work
on
on
some
sites,
so
so
on
this
site,
the
the
designers
have
looked
at
at
the
site,
the
layout,
the
size
of
the
properties
that
will
fit
into
them.
The
two
threes
and
four
beds,
the
external
alterations,
have
been
changed:
they're,
not
standardized
house
types.
So,
yes,
we
did
start
with
well.
So
we
didn't
start
with
a
blank
piece
of
paper.
P
We
started
with
effects
the
design
and
access
statement,
because
that
identified
what
we
should
be
looking
at
doing
and
where
the
home
should
go
on
it.
So
you
know-
and
some
some
of
these
properties
may
be
found
on
other
sets-
may
be
used
on
other
sites
in
the
future.
But
again,
that's
not
necessarily
a
bad
thing,
because
that
property
could
be.
You
know
we
believe
is
acceptable
and
it
could
be
acceptable
in
another
location.
Equally.
That
property
may
not
be
acceptable
in
another
location.
P
Therefore,
you
wouldn't
use
it
and
you
would
alter
the
house
types
and
do
them
so
they're,
not
just
standardized
properties
brought
from
a
another
site
within
leeds
or
a
different
area
put
onto
this
site.
They
have
been
individually
considered
as
to
appropriate
designs,
appropriate
layouts
and
suitable
properties
that
go
on
here,
taking
into
account
the
surrounding
area,
the
density
interactions
with
the
properties
within
the
site
and
the
open
space.
A
Thanks
graeme,
I
think
we've
drifted
into
comments
now
so
neil
you're
next.
H
Thank
you,
chad.
Obviously,
we've
gone
over
this
in
quite
some
detail
as
an
application.
It's
demonstrates
really.
I
appreciate
members
of
still
some
outstanding
concerns
with
matters
that
were,
to
be
frank,
to
be
frank,
largely
decided
in
20
2017.
H
it
does.
It
is
illustrative
of
the
use
of
utility
of
plans
panels.
I
believe
here
I
mean
this.
Application
has
come
on
an
awful
long
way
and
that
needs
to
be
acknowledged,
particularly
in
the
areas
that
I'm
especially
interested,
as
you
might
imagine,
which
is
climate
and
energy
most
other
things,
and
I
think
that's
got
to
be
acknowledged,
made
my
comments
about
where
I
wish
this
application
was
in
terms
of
what
the
applicant
could
do,
but
I
acknowledged
that
we
are
indus
we're
in
a
transitional
period
chair.
H
A
F
Thanks
chair
now,
two
companies
have
been
made
by
other
colleagues
this
afternoon,
which
I
ain't
telling
you
to
agree
with
codswallop
my
good
colleague
across
the
way
and
narnia,
which
is
another
colleague
towards
my
left
at
this
particular
point,
because
I
saw
weird
and
wonderful
fantasy
world
that
we're
finding
ourselves
in
at
this
particular
point
will
come
as
no
surprise
to
people
that
I
don't
believe
that
this
site
is
sustainable
at
a
point
where
you
have
a
legal
break
on,
the
number
of
houses
have
been
built
because
you
need
a
provision
of
a
further
primary
school
at
a
point
where
the
one
that
rode
in
and
one
road
out
breaches
our
own
policy.
F
F
But
the
interesting
thing,
I
think,
is
to
examine
really
the
impacts
on
co2
emissions,
something
that
council
wall
shaw,
county
cargiller
fascinated
with.
Let's
just
revisit
those
figures
just
so
that
we
can
help
and
assist
with
this
particular
debate.
At
this
stage,
this
site
is
absorbing
co2
118
metric
tons
per
year.
F
You'll
be
generating
18
metric
tons
of
co2
a
year
year
in
and
year
out,
so
you've
got
a
site
that,
at
this
particular
point,
is
contributing
positively
towards
net
zero
by
2030,
something
that
all
of
us
voted
for
at
this
particular
point.
If
you
grab
planning
permission
at
this
particular
stage
and
that
clearly
undermines
it,
it's
got
to
undermine
it.
You
can't
have
both.
F
You
can
have
that
net
zero
by
2030
and
hand
over
a
site
that
is
presently
absorbing
co2,
which
will
produce
thousands
and
thousands
of
tons
of
co2
that
cannot
be
sustainable
in
any
shape
way
or
form.
Now
I
find
some
solids.
As
I
know,
a
lot
of
people
do
with
bonice
johnson
who
talks
about
young
families
need
houses
in
the
uk,
not
on
greenfield
sites
but
beautiful
homes
on
brownfield
sites.
Well,
this
is
clearly
not
a
brownfield
site.
People
have
visited
it.
F
This
particular
point
will
know
that
it
is
a
pretty
much
a
greenfield
site.
So
at
this
particular
point
we're
in
a
bit
of
a
dilemma.
Do
we
say
that
we
support
the
provision
of
housing
on
brownfield
sites
or
not
do
we
say
we
believe
in
a
zero
target
by
2030,
or
do
we
know
so
all
empty
rhetoric
or,
ultimately,
are
we
prepared
to
support
what
we
actually
say
and
on
that
ground,
on
the
grounds
that
the
fact
that
this
is
not
a
sustainable
site,
I
clearly
won't
be
voting
for
it.
Thanks
chair.
A
I'm
just
look
council
crew.
Next,
I've
got
you.
G
Okay,
thank
you
chair.
I
just
wanted
to
say
that,
despite
the
comments
that
I've
made
so
far
and
the
questions
that
I've
asked,
which
have
expressed
some
disappointment,
I've
got
to
say,
particularly
in
the
design
and
layout,
which
you
know
are
in
front
of
us
now
and
listening
very
carefully
to
to
robert's
rationale.
G
I've
got
sympathy
with
it
robert,
but
the
bottom
line
is
we
do
need
to
build
houses,
and
this
is
in
front
of
us
now
and
I
have
to
acknowledge
that
it's
probably
the
greenest
application
for
housing
development
that
we've
that
we've
had
put
in
front
of
us
and
on
that
basis
I
I
do
think
it's
very
difficult
to
turn
down.
So
I
would
support
and
second
council
warsaw's
recommendation
for
the
proposal.
A
Thank
you,
caroline
peter,
please
peter
cullen.
F
Thanks
chair
I'll
I'll
carry
on
in
a
similar
vein,
I
think
what
the
problem
is,
we're
not
deciding
here,
which
is
the
best
design
of
houses
we'd
like
to
see
on
this
particular
site,
we're
deciding
whether
the
application
in
front
of
us
fits
the
legal
planning
framework.
Obviously
this
isn't
the
most
beautiful
estate
I'd
like
to
live
in
in
the
area,
but
it
it
meets.
F
I
I
personally
don't
don't
have
much.
I
don't
find
the
design
offensive.
I
wouldn't
say
I
don't
find
it
the
most
beautiful
design,
I've
ever
said,
but
there
are
houses
there
that
I
think
are
much
more
attractive
than
ones.
We've
granted
very
recently,
probably
and
not
gone
into
this
depth,
and
I
think
that
would
be
unfair,
not
to
point
that
out
and
and
similarly
on
the
grounds
of
carbon.
You
could
argue,
we
shouldn't
build
anything
ever
that
that
could
be
a
ground.
F
F
What
we
have
got
here
and
members
all
know
exactly
where
I
am
on
this
agenda,
and
I
would
love
to
be
where
you
are
on
it,
but
you
reference
boris
and
maybe
we
we
could
call
on
him
and
ask
whether
the
national
applause
planning
policy
framework
needs
to
move
further
on
this,
and
that's
where
we'll
get
to
when
this
developer
has
to
make
those
changes.
F
They
will
and
that's
that's
what
we've
seen
they
are
going
to
do
over
time
and
we'll
get
there.
So
what
I'll
accept
here
is
what
we're
seeing
is
a
progression
from
probably
only
five
years
ago.
That
would
have
seen
something
completely
different
and
we've
now
seen
something
with
a
market,
marketable
improvement,
and
I'm
happy
that
we're
progressing
on
this
phase.
I'd
like
to
see
where
we
are
in
another
five
years
time,
because
I
think
that'll
get
there.
F
I
don't
necessarily
think
the
legal
planning
policy
framework
has
moved
as
fast
as
I'd
like
it
to,
but
there
were
no
grounds
that
we
could
that.
I
see
that
I
could
refuse
this,
that
our
legal
planning
policy
grounds
based
on
the
other
determinations
we've
made
at
this
panel
and
based
on
that
being
a
consistent
approach.
So
I'm
happy
to
support
this.
F
You
would
let
your
small
child
cycle
along
it,
safe
in
the
knowledge
that
they
won't
come
across
another
motor
vehicle
in
that
path,
and
I
think
in
this
case
the
likelihood
of
a
nice
wide
verge
and
I've
got
many
of
them
in
my
lovely
green
ward
out
in
the
outskirts
of
the
city
that
have
tire
marks
in
them.
As
I'm
sure
many
of
our
other
colleagues
have,
and
so
I
think
we
do
need
to
look
in
that.
I
think
that's
something
that
we
would
like
to
see
conditioned
in
many
going
forward.
F
K
Mr
valley
said
something
interesting
earlier
on
for
me,
which
was
he
said:
it's
not
a
disaster.
I've
been
fairly
consistent
on
this
panel.
K
K
Whatever
reservations
I
may
have
about
lots
of
aspects
of
this
development
are
frankly
irrelevant
at
this
stage,
because
they
are
determined
and
determined
beyond
question,
and
I
accept
that
the
principle
of
desire,
the
principle
of
development,
the
access
all
of
that
is
determined
and
decided,
but
on
the
issue
of
the
actual
appearance,
one
of
the
four
things
we
are
here
to
determine
today.
I
still
have
issues.
K
A
Thanks
stan
kelly,
please.
I
Thank
you
chair.
I
think
I
think
most
of
my
views
have
already
been
said,
and
especially
councillor
carlill,
I'd
like
to
echo
echo
his
his
thoughts
that
he
that
he
shared
with
us
about.
You
know
we've
we're.
Basically,
we
basically
sat
here
to
determine.
I
We
basically
sat
here
to
determine
you
know
the
design
aspect
and
the
the
question
that
I
asked
earlier
regarding
the
access.
I
do
apologize
for
raising
it
because
it
was
a
bit
of
a
kind
of
worms.
I
Wasn't
it,
but
I
I
do
think
it's
a
flawed
application,
but
it
was
a
flawed
application
in
2017
and
was
passed
on
balance
by
this
panel
before
I
was
even
elected
and
before
I
sat
on
city
plans
and
I
have
to,
I
have
to
trust
trust,
past
counselors,
who
sat
on
this
this
panel,
that
they
made
the
best
decision
with
the
policies
that
were
in
front
of
them
at
the
time.
So
it's
kind
of
with
a
heavy
heart
really
that
I
have
to
support
this.
I
I
agree
fully
with
councillor
cohen
that
we
should
require
better
design,
but
I
think
at
the
moment
we're
not
able
to
we're
not
able
we
don't
have
the
tools
to
to
ask
for
it
so
but
yeah.
Thank
you.
Chair.
A
E
Well,
I
don't
mind
if
people
come
back,
a
follow-up
from
what
they
are
saying,
but
we've
heard
from
councillor
finnegan
that
basically
he
doesn't
want
this
scheme
at
all.
Now
it
is
in
the
sap,
and
we
have
agreed
at
outline
plan
approval
that
houses
be
built
on
this
site
and
it
is
our
job
to
make
sure
that
we
do
get
the
best
for
any
area,
and
I
don't
think
we.
E
I
don't
think
we
have
got
the
best
here.
When
you
look
at
page.
E
Page
19
there's
buff
color
brick,
which,
if
it
if
it
was
totally
buff,
colored
brick,
it
would
also
be
boring,
but
because
there's
contrasts
in
colour
the
reddish
roof,
the
a
bit
of
white
render
above
colour,
brick
and
dark
window
frames
and
door
frames.
That
to
me
is
acceptable.
E
I
won't
say
it's
the
best
design,
but
it's
acceptable.
But
if
you
go
on
to
the
page,
21
and
22,
which
I've
drawn
the
panel's
attention
to
it's
dark,
it's
miserable
and
I
think
it
it's
it.
What
doesn't
help
is
that
there's
dark
window
frames
and
dark
doors
in
what
looks
like
a
darkish
red
brick
with
a
dark
roof,
and
I
do
expect
better
than
that
because
we
as
the
public
are
looking
at
it.
We
may
not
live
there,
but
we
have
to
look
at
it
and
I
don't
think
that
is
acceptable
and.
E
I
are
you
quite
finished,
mr
carr
right
not
to
go
against
what
the
aspirations
of
this
panel
want,
and
I
do
feel
very
strongly
about
that.
Second
access.
E
I
accept
what
the
highways
officer
says
that
it
was
dangerous,
but
if
you
look
on
the
plan
the
at
that
entrance,
that
is
as
wide
as
other
roads
in
the
area.
So
I
don't
understand
what
the
problem
was
there
and
to
say
that
oh
we've
built
a
circular
road
which
is
wider
and
that
will
do.
I
don't
think
that
is
good
enough.
E
M
I
I
think
I
I
would
just
like
to
start
by
saying
that
getting
the
papers
for
this
and
opening
the
the
illustration
part
at
page
five,
your
heart
sinks.
When
you
look
at
at
this,
we
see
it
so
often
sort
of
a
jam-packed
full
site
houses
rubbing
shoulders
with
each
other
it
it
it
is
it.
Obviously,
when
you
look
at
the
density
on
the
site,
however,
they
play
with
their
suggestions
of
design
it.
Nothing
can
relieve
the
fact
that
there
really
are
far
too
many
people
living
in
one
small
space.
It's
a
fact.
M
We
can't
get
away
from
it,
it's
legal
okay,
but
we
don't
have
to
like
it
the
question
of
access.
M
M
Okay,
you
know
I
miss
an
awful
lot
in
the
world,
I'm
afraid,
but
I
I
probably
missed
this
policy
changing,
but
if
not
you
know
why?
Why
didn't
we
apply
the
policy?
That's
not
a
question,
it's
it's
a
questionable
statement,
not
questionable
in
that
sense
design.
M
Yeah
we've
had
an
awful
lot
to
say
about
this.
I
was
a
bit
disturbed
by
the
fact
that
when
I
asked
my
question
about
the
fact
of
houses
being
designed
as
opposed
to
tweet
and
that
it
was
the
agent
for
persimmon
who
answered
me
and
not
the
architect
who
I
would
have
thought
might
have
either
been
outraged
that
I
suggested
that
he
hadn't
designed
these
houses
or
whatever.
M
So
I
I
don't
know
whether
you
need
to
draw
your
own
conclusions
from
that
and
I
feel
a
bit
churlish
because
they
did
put
me
some
chimneys
on
some
houses
and
you
know
it's
the
first
time
that's
happened
in
quite
a
while,
so
I
do
appreciate
that
a
little
comment
about
electric
charging
points
in
all
the
houses,
even
the
affordables
I
mean
I
can't
afford
an
electric
car
and
I
don't
think
I'd
qualify
for
an
affordable
house.
So
I'll
just
leave
that
hanging
in
the
air
button.
A
M
One
thing
I
would
just
this
is
this
is
sort
of
a
general
comment
here
we
have
a
site
in
my
ward,
which
is
very
very
similar
to
this.
This
is
going
to
take
about
nine
years
to
build
out,
it'll,
probably
be
10
by
the
time
they
get
around
to
it.
M
There
are
people
who
have
been
paying
a
management
charge
for
many
years
who
are
getting
sweet,
funny
adams
for
it
really
in
terms
of
real
return,
because
the
management
company
doesn't
want
to
take
on
responsibility
for
things
that
are
affected
by
us,
not
having
adopted
the
roads,
service,
lights,
etc
on
that
site-
and
it's
not
in
this
case-
it's
not
the
council's
fault,
but
I
I
do
mention
that
as
a
warning
that
you
know,
we've
got
a
lot
of
very
unhappy
residents
who,
in
a
sense,
blame
us
for
not
sort
of
sitting
on
this
more
strongly,
and
another
thing
that
happened
there
is
that
the
106
agreement
probably
go
down
in
history.
M
As
the
worst
106
agreement
ever
written
by
the
city
council,
it
does
need
to
be
incredibly
well
written
when
you're
looking
at
something
that's
going
to
go
on
as
long
as
this,
because
the
the
ramifications
of
things
not
being
done
accordingly,
when
you
get
10
years
down
the
line,
and
somebody
tries
to
remember
what
was
said
10
years
ago-
and
it
wasn't
quite
putting
the
right
words
in
the
106,
you
end
up
with
mammoth
problems.
So
with
those
caveats,
I
appreciate
it's
a
subside.
M
G
Just
a
very
quick
comment:
I
just
wanted
the
opportunity
to
state
publicly
that
I
do
agree
with
councillor
cohen's
analysis
and
subsequently
I
agree
with
councillor.
Lattice
too,
I
just
don't
think
an
inspector
would
councillor
cohen
and
I
think
we
need
to
move
much
much
more
swiftly
to
a
point
where
inspectors
would
be
far
more
likely
to
agree
with
that
view.
E
Something
completely
different
and
they
apologize
for
not
raising
this
earlier.
We
we
talked
about
a
lot
of
a
lot
about
drainage
on
the
site
and
an
attenuation
area
being
formed.
Can
I
just
request
that
every
house
does
have
a
water
bot
which
is
environmentally
friendly
and
helpful
to
the
householder.
J
Again
quickly,
chair
I've,
I've
just
been
reading
the
the
minutes
for
the
2017
meeting
and
I
hope
the
four
of
us
who
were
still
here
have
the
benefit
of
remembering
it,
and
if
you
recall
at
that
at
that
meeting,
in
effect,
I
proposed
that
we
didn't
accept
the
outline
application
because
it
wasn't
policy
compliant
and
the
majority
of
the
panel
at
that
meeting,
and
I
think,
if
I'm
honest,
that
was
at
the
point
where
we
were
under
considerable
pressure
about
the
five
year.
J
Land
supply,
if
I'm
honest,
but
the
majority
of
the
panel
didn't
agree
with
me,
and
we
agreed
that.
So
it
seems
to
me
that
vast
elements
of
this
application
we
stuck
with
so
the
single
access,
is
one
of
them.
None
of
us
like
it,
I
attempted
in
2017
to
get
it
turned
down.
On
that
basis,
it
wasn't
agreed
to
give
to
give
the
developers
their
due.
J
This
is
much
better
much
better
than
it
was,
but
one
of
the
other
things
that
was
raised
in
2017
because
we
were
shown
an
outline
layout
at
the
time
was
was
in
fact
that
layout-
and
I
still
have
some
some
concerns
about
this
and
I
think
probably
it
will
get
through.
J
But
I
I
I
worry
about
if
you
put
the
school
in
the
middle
of
there,
the
traffic
associated
with
the
school
will
use
the
internal
yellow
room
as
a
circular
route
round,
and
I
feel
I
I
still
feel
that
this
this
layout
could
be
tweaked
to
make
it
a
safer
layout
for
people
coming
to
the
school
in
particular
because
they're
a
different
clientele
to
the
people
who
live
there.
So
at
the
moment
I
I
can't.
J
I
can't
support
the
layout
and
I'm
being
consistent
because
I
said
that
in
2017,
but
I
am
mindful,
as
caroline
says,
that
actually
we
haven't
really
got
anywhere
to
go
on
this
one
and
it's
actually
much
better,
and
I
think
for
that
reason,
as
I
say,
I
find
it
really
difficult
to
support
this.
But
we
are
where
we
are.
A
F
One
yeah
very,
very
briefly,
just
on
the
off
chance.
I
might
lose
this
one
in
terms
of
the
conditions.
Can
we
add
a
condition
that
forms
a
local
liaison
committee,
develop
a
pile
of
persimmon
sites
across
molly,
all
have
been
appallingly
wrong.
All
have
created
all
sorts
of
problems.
I've
sent
enforcement
officers
out
to
most
of
them.
Indeed,
an
enforcement
officer
is
visiting
one
of
their
sites
this
afternoon
because
of
poor
behavior
there
at
that
particular
point.
F
So
if
it
had
an
extra
condition
that
a
liaison
committee
that
performed
with
local
councillors
that
they
are
obliged
to
come
and
listen
to,
because
at
this
particular
point,
their
history
of
listening
and
being
good
neighbours
is
poor
and
also
can
we
pledge
to
give
the
world
members.
F
I
thought
a
briefing
on
the
site
management
plan,
so
we
understand
what
their
obligations
are,
because
they've
been
weak
and
feeble
in
the
past
and
grounds
maintenance
plan,
because
their
ground
maintenance
plan
that
daisy
hill
isn't
worth
the
paperwork
that
it's
written
upon,
and
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
fully
brave
because
these
extra
areas
are
going
to
be
important.
It's
important
that
they
are
maintained
appropriately,
as
graham's
already
pointed
out.
If
you
don't
get
this
right,
people
are
paying
a
management
cost.
A
Robert,
if
I
may
I'll
bring
jonathan
in
on
that
point,
I'm
I'm
not
sure.
If
it's,
if
it's
not
on
the
outline,
I
don't
think
we
can
do
that,
but
it
can
be
explained
technically
by
a
planet.
N
Yeah,
I
think,
to
set
up
a
liaison
group
formally
that
would
have
to
have
been
dealt
with
within
the
outlying
section,
106
agreement
or
via
condition.
At
that
point,
this
is
purely
an
application
to
look
at
the
details
of,
as
we
said,
appearance
landscaping,
etcetera,
they're,
clearly,
developers
here
and
there's
no
reason
why
they
couldn't
want
to
engage
with
that.
I'm
sure
it'd
be
to
their
benefit,
to
do
so
to
minimize
the
potential
for
complaints
going
forward.
P
Yes,
thank
you.
That's
fine,
so
I
was
just
looking
over
to
the
to
the
the
applicant
because
I'm
not
actually
from
persimmon,
so
I
was
just
getting
the
thumbs
up
so
yeah.
That's
fine,
though.
N
Another
very
lengthy
debate
and
discussion
with
lots
of
questions
about
all
aspects
of
the
scheme.
Try
again
yeah
just
say
we
had
a
very
lengthy
debate
and
discussion
again
with
lots
of
questions
about
every
aspect
of
the
scheme.
I
think
particularly
the
concerns
that
were
raised
at
the
previous
meeting,
so
that
covered
things
like
drainage
generation
of
school
places
and
the
need
for
the
school
house,
design,
sustainability
and
the
phasing
of
the
schemes
cycle.
N
Footpath
segregation
and
parking
prevention
on
the
grass
verges
and
lots
of
other
aspects
as
well,
which
I
don't
need
to
repeat
here,
but
I
think
clearly,
members
were
minded
to
approve
the
application,
but
with
an
additional
condition
regarding
prevention
of
parking
on
the
grass
verges
which
the
developer
did
indicate
that
they
were
willing
to
consider
we'll
also
as
officers
look
at
the
materials
to
ensure
that
the
concerns
raised
about
the
sort
of
relatively
dark
appearance
of
some
of
the
dwellings
is
reconsidered
and
we'll
look
to
discuss
with
local
members
regarding
the
construction
management
plan
and
the
implementation
of
other
other
plans
within
that
outline
permission
as
well.
A
I
think
that's
some.
Thank
you.
I
think
that
sums
it
up.
John.
Thank
you
very
much.
Can
I
thank
you
for
your
your
attendance
very
interesting
discussion
and
thank
you
for
that
very
enjoyable
sat
here,
listening
to
it
all
yeah.
No,
I
I
enjoyed
it.
I'm
speaking
for
myself
can
I
can
I
warn
you
that
on
the
25th
of
october,
it's
going
to
be
a
busy
meeting.
It's
not
likely
to
be
just
one
so
yeah
we
in
november
november,
did
I
say
something
else
september.