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A
A
So
I'd
like
to
start
the
meeting
today
by
confirming
that
this
meeting
of
development
panel
meets
the
requirements
of
the
council's
constitution,
even
though
members
of
the
panel
are
in
remote
attendance
while
items
today
will
be
fully
discussed
as
usual,
remote
attendance
requires
a
few
slight
changes.
How
I
manage
the
debate,
therefore,
can
all
attendees
move
their
microphones
unless
they
invite
them
to
speak?
This
will
avoid
disruption
from
background
noise
and
feedback
on
the
like.
Can
all
participants
please
keep
their
cameras
on
during
the
meeting.
A
The
exception
that
I
guess
really
is
is
officers
will
not
participate
if
there's
any
concerns
about
their
connection
stability,
because
we'd
like
to
keep
the
meeting
progressing
in
a
sensible
manner
as
possible,
all
participants
will
be
invited
to
introduce
themselves
at
the
start
of
the
public
session,
to
make
it
clear
to
observers
who
will
be
involved
in
proceedings.
Members
wishing
to
ask
questions
make
comments
you
do
so
by
using
the
raised
hand
facility.
A
A
Mine
has
been
good
of
late,
but
as
a
safeguard,
we
elect
a
deputy
chair
who's
stepping
during
during
my
absence,
so
I
move
that
counselor
richie
be
that
person
and
I
invite
another
member
to
second
that
members.
Thank
you
very
much,
council
mckenna
and
thank
you,
council
richard
for
volunteering,
to
do
that
right.
So
now
I'm
gonna
invite
members
to
introduce
themselves
and
to
mute
their
microphone
once
you've
introduced
yourself
I'll
start
with
we're
gonna
go
through
an
alphabetical
order,
so
council
anderson.
A
A
D
Thank
you.
So
there
are
no
appeals
against
the
refusal
of
inspection
of
documents
under
agenda
item
number.
Two:
there
are
no
items
which
require
the
exclusion
of
the
press
in
public
under
a
gender
item
number
three:
there
are
no
formal
late
items
under
a
gender
item.
Number
four
could
ask
members
to
declare
any
disposable
procurement
interests.
D
E
D
A
C
A
A
Thank
you,
councilmember
herren,
much
appreciated
right.
So,
let's
move
on
to
item
six,
we
have
our
large
substantive
item
for
the
day
I
missed.
I
know
martin's
got
something
to
add
before
adam
comes
in,
but
just
to
say
from
the
chair's
point
of
view.
This
is
the
latest
stage
in
our
local
plan
update
and
which,
as
members
will
be
know,
is
built
around
our
response
to
the
climate
emergency
that
presses
upon
us
as
a
city
and
it's
a
rather
important
piece
of
work
and
I'm
sure
you'll
give
it
the
due
consideration.
F
F
For
giving
me
the
opportunity
to
do
it
now,
it's
just
to
alert
members
of
panel
that
some
following
considerations
as
part
of
the
wider
council
budget,
saving
and
and
service
reviews.
There
are
a
number
of
elis
within
the
strategic
planning
service
which
this
panel
should
be
made.
Aware
of
so
we
have
robin
coughlin
who's,
a
team
leader
in
policy
and
plans
and
lois
pickering,
who
will
be
very
familiar
to
you
for
having
led
the
core
strategy,
selective
review
and
the
sap
they're,
leaving.
F
In
actual
fact,
they
left
yesterday
as
part
of
early
leavers,
and
we
also
have
mark
burgess,
who
is
currently
the
group
manager
for
the
environment
design
group.
He
will
be
leaving
at
the
end
of
the
week
and
stephen
robson
who
currently
team
leads
landscape
and
the
tree
service
will
also
be
leaving
toward
the
end
of
the
week.
A
Thanks
martin
yeah
come
around
rather
soon
and
it's
not
really
the
manner
in
which
such
excellent
colleagues
to
leave,
but
it's
very
on
brand
for
2020.
Isn't
it
really
that
it's
come
around
like
this,
and
given
that
the
issues
we
face
as
a
council,
but
I'd
just
like
to
put
on
record
for
myself
as
chair
and
thank
those
colleagues
for
all
their
work
over
the
years
and
their
help
and
advice,
and
certainly
educating
myself
in
the
in
the
ways
of
strategic
planning?
A
I
thought
I
spent
yesterday
making
emails
and
calls
to
the
folks
who
are
leaving,
and
it
was
it's
kind
of
rather
it's
rather
sort
of
bittersweet.
Really,
you
must
admit
so,
I'm
sure,
if
any
other
member
wants
to
to
add
to
that.
That
would
be.
That
would
be
most
welcome
at
this
point.
Council.
Caroline
green
andrew
carter,.
D
Sorry
I
was
just
putting
my
clapping
sign
up
actually
to
clap,
clap
the
colleagues
that
were
leaving.
I
wasn't
indicating
to
speak,
but,
as
you
have
called
me,
I
would
just
like
to
add
to
your
comments
and
and
say
how
much
respect
that
I
have
acquired
for
those
colleagues
how
invaluable
they
have
been
to
the
process
of
planning
and
indeed
my
induction
into
it.
And
I
am
very
grateful
and
wish
them
a
very,
very
long
and
happy
retirement.
C
C
I'll
share,
I
I'll
add
a
note
of
agreement
to
that.
I
think
the
the
breadth
of
knowledge
and
understanding
the
planning
system
that
they
had
will
be
very
difficult
for
us
to
replace,
and
I,
like
the
rest
of
us,
wish
them
all
the
best
for
the
future
and
say
a
personal.
Thank
you,
and
I
thank
you
on
behalf
of
leeds
for
all
the
work
they've
done
for
the
city.
E
E
We
can't
do
that
this
year
and
also,
obviously
it's
been
brought
forward
rather
more
swiftly
than
we
any
of
us
have
anticipated
as
well,
so
hasn't
really
given
us
the
opportunity,
perhaps
to
all
say
our
thanks
to
them
even
electronically,
so
yeah
if
we
could,
as
a
panel
yeah
or
just
to
really
add
our
support
to
the
comments
that
you
made
at
the
outset.
Thank
you,
chair.
A
H
H
Okay,
fantastic,
thank
you
I'll
make
a
start,
then
so
yeah.
So
thank
you.
Jeff
we're
obviously
keen
to
hear
the
views
of
members,
so
I
intend
to
take
the
report
as
read.
However,
I've
prepared
a
10
to
15
minute
presentation
to
help
summarize
the
report
and
hopefully
lead
us
into
members,
questions
and
comments.
H
As
outlined
in
the
report,
the
proposed
topic
areas
will
be
covered
across
two
sessions
with
the
topics
of
reducing
emissions,
heat
networks,
renewable
energy
and
generation,
and
storage,
placemaking
and
green
infrastructure,
tree
planting
and
retention
and
biodiversity
covered
in
today's
session.
A
further
session
in
will
cover
the
topics
of
infrastructure,
flood
risk
and
patterns
of
growth.
H
H
Addressing
the
climate
emergency
is
one
of
the
lead
city
council's
most
important
priorities,
as
reflected
by
the
declaration
of
the
emergency.
Last
year,
panel
members
have
made
clear
their
belief
that
the
priority
for
the
local
plan
update
is
to
consolidate
and
move
beyond
existing
local
planning
policies
to
address
climate
change
through
the
establishment
of
new
policies
and
guidance
within
the
leeds
local
plan,
which
helps
address
the
climate
emergency
declaration
to
achieve
net
zero
emissions
by
2030.
H
A
A
A
H
I
set
out
in
section
2.5
of
the
report.
The
first
regulatory
stage
of
the
local
plan
update
will
be
the
regulation
18
consultation.
The
purpose
of
this
stage
is
to
get
views
on
what
matters
the
local
plan
update
we'll
need
to
consider
and
address
otherwise
known
as
the
scope
of
the
plan.
As
such,
we
intend
to
invite
representations
on
what
the
plan
should
contain,
whilst
not
necessary
for
this
stage
of
consultation.
H
H
H
H
The
planning
system
has
a
critical
role
in
mitigating
and
adapting
to
climate
change.
Specifically,
it
can
shape
places
in
ways
that
contribute
to
radical
reductions
in
greenhouse
gas
emissions.
It
can
minimise
vulnerability
and
improve
resilience,
encourage
the
more
prudent
use
of
existing
resources
and
support.
The
move
towards
renewable
and
low
carbon
energy
and
associated
infrastructure
are
stressed
within
the
national
planning
policy
framework.
H
H
H
From
paragraph
3.32
onwards
of
the
report,
this
details
potential
policy
approaches
which
will
now
take
members
through
in
in
summary
form.
The
first
relates
to
reducing
carbon
emissions
from
buildings,
as
detailed
in
paragraph
3.36
of
the
report.
Whilst
the
current
policy
approaches
within
policies,
en1
and
en2
of
the
core
strategy
do
go
significantly
beyond
national
standards,
they
are
not
sufficiently
stringent
to
contribute
to
our
net
zero
aspirations.
H
It
is
therefore
proposed
as
an
initial
preferred
option.
The
local
plan
update
will
contain
a
policy
requiring
all
new
development
to
be
built
to
a
zero
carbon
standard.
The
benefit
of
such
an
approach
is
obvious
in
carbon
emission
terms,
but
may
also
be
beneficial
that
it
allows
developers
to
find
their
own
way
to
zero
carbon
rather
than
policies
prescribing.
How
exactly
that
should
happen.
H
There
are,
of
course,
alternative
options
to
this
approach,
which
include
an
incremental,
tiered
approach,
which
gets
us
to
zero
emissions
from
new
buildings
by
2030
in
the
intervening
years
has
perhaps
less
ambitious
targets
or
prescribed
improvements
over
and
above
building
regulations.
We
currently
exceed
these
by
20,
but
perhaps
this
could
be
increased
in
other
ways.
H
Another
alternative
will
be
requiring
carbon
offsetting
by
developments
through
increased
renewable
energy,
given
that
the
current
target
is
set
at
10
and
finally
requiring
a
set
proportion
of
energy
to
be
derived
from
low
carbon
renewable
sources
and,
as
I
said
at
the
top
they're
set
out
as
alternative
options,
they're
not
designed
to
be
exhaustive
options,
and
I
would
anticipate
through
consultation.
It
may
be
that
other
options
emerge.
H
Therefore,
as
an
initial
preferred
option,
it
is
considered
that
it
may
be
beneficial
to
set
as
a
high
standard
for
sustainable
construction
using
a
nationally
recognized
accreditation
process,
and
members
may
be
aware
of
things
like
passive
house
or
briem,
and
others
are
available
on
that.
The
the
other
alternative
options
might
be
a
what's
called
a
do
nothing
approach
which
doesn't
set
standards
for
construction,
but
instead
relies
upon
you
the
new
policies
for
emissions
to
resolve
some
of
those
sustainability
issues.
H
It's
also
worth
updating
members
that,
since
the
time
of
writing
the
report
officers
are
met
with
sustainable
construction
experts
at
the
university
of
leeds
who
have
informed
us
of
draft
policy
measures
in
sweden,
london
and
manchester,
whereby
developments
may
be
required
to
measure
whole
life.
Carbon
costs
through
the
use
of
accredited
european
standards.
H
H
As
such,
our
approach
to
future
renewable
generation
is
considered
a
priority
as
yet
work
with
partners
has
yet
to
reveal
so
it
has
not
revealed
the
scale
of
energy
generation
required
and
clearly
this
would
need
to
be
in
place
before
targets
are
put
in
place.
Nevertheless,
subject
to
that
evidence
and
appropriate
landscape
assessments,
it
is
considered
preferable
to
establish
new
targets
and
to
identify
land
for
the
delivery
of
new
renewable
energy
generation.
H
Moving
on
to
heat
networks,
the
city's
developing
heat
network
is
a
sustainable
method
of
transporting
low
carbon
heat
to
residents
and
businesses.
The
policy
en4
of
the
core
strategy
is
still
considered
fit
for
purpose.
However,
it
is
considered,
it
may
benefit
from
supplementary
guidance
that
better
connects
the
network
to
potential
customers.
H
Energy
storage:
this
relates
to
the
storage
of
elec,
of
excess
electricity
and
potentially
to
hydrogen
as
well,
and
this
excess
electricity
is
generally
created
by
renewable
forms
of
energy
generation
and
it's
an
important
part
of
the
renewable
energy
generation
infrastructure,
as
expressed
in
the
report.
There
are
currently
no
policies
within
the
local
plan
on
energy
storage,
and
the
preferred
option
proposed
is
for
the
formulation
of
a
new
criteria
based
policy
which
encourages
energy
storage
in
identified
locations,
usually
typified
as
industrial
areas
with
good
connections
to
the
electricity
grid.
H
This
is
a
new
new
policy
area
and,
as
such,
we
propose
to
not
include
targets
for
such
uses,
simply
because
at
this
stage
it's
not
clear
of
what
the
evidence
to
support
targets
would
be.
However,
as
an
alternative
approach.
Officers
of
course
can
pursue
that
option
at
least
investigate
it
further.
If
members
feel
strongly
that
targets
would
be
beneficial.
H
H
H
Moving
on
to
tree
planting
and
replacement,
which
I've
merged
into
one
slide,
you'll
see
that
they're
they're
they
follow
on
from
each
other.
In
the
report
itself,
we
know
you
know.
Trees
are
likely
to
play
a
crucial
role
in
the
council's
response
to
to
the
climate
emergency.
They
have
an
enormous
contribution
to
make
in
terms
of
carbon
sequestration,
but
beyond
their
carbon
benefits.
They
also
have
a
huge
impact
on
biodiversity
and
on
health
and
well-being.
H
H
It
is
currently
considered
that
the
current
policy
standards
of
a
three
for
one
replacement
ratio
does
not
necessarily
reflect
the
carbon
sequestration
value
of
existing
trees
on
sites.
Therefore,
moving
forward.
The
preferred
options
advocated
is
for
a
policy
approach
which
supports
the
work
of
the
white
rose
forest
and
identifies
new
land
for
tree
planting,
whilst
also
proposing
a
more
nuanced
approach
to
tree
replacement.
That
is
based
on
replacing
the
carbon
sequestration
value
lost,
rather
than
a
set
number
of
trees.
H
Finally,
in
terms
of
the
topic
areas,
the
report
considers
the
issue
of
biodiversity
and
biodiversity
net
gain.
In
particular,
as
members
may
be
aware,
there
is
an
environment
bill
currently
before
parliament,
which,
amongst
other
many
other
things,
seeks
to
establish
biodiversity
net
gain
targets
for
developments
of
at
least
10
percent.
H
H
Sorry,
because
existing
policy
g9
requires
net
gain
itself,
but
it
doesn't
set
a
target.
Therefore,
the
preferred
option
is
to
refine
and
enhance
policy
g9
to
reflect
the
environment
bill
when
enacted
by
setting
out
a
system
of
biodiversity
improvements,
both
on-site
and
off,
with
an
approach
to
offsetting
that
maximizes
ecological
opportunities
within
leads.
H
So
I
just
want
to
take
members
through
the
proposed
next
steps
as
well.
So,
as
I
said
at
the
at
the
start,
the
topics
of
infrastructure,
flood
risk
and
locations
for
growth
will
be
presented
at
panel
on
the
19th
of
january,
as
part
of
this
officers
have
an
aspiration
to
bring
the
consultation
draft
to
that
january
panel
with
a
name
to
consult
in
the
spring
subject
to
all
the
relevant
approvals.
H
A
Would
help
if
the
chair,
muted
himself,
yeah
thanks
adam
there's
a
lot
to
go
out
in
that
report,
so
what
I
propose
to
do
if
we
take
barry's
question
first
and
then
I've
got
some
andrew
now
I've
got
some
points
to
make
myself
a
chair,
but
there's
obviously
a
lot
to
go
at
so
councillor.
Anderson.
Do
you
want
to
come
in.
B
I'm
not
just
taking
the
council's
view
and
either
agreeing
or
disagreeing
so
that
they
want
to
be
party
to
the
discussions.
So
when
can
we
bring
forward
the
sci,
I'm
suggesting
it
be
brought
forward
at
the
same
time
in
january,
we
can
sign
it
off
and
we
can
then
get
the
consultations
on
this
part
through
the
regulation.
18
done
using
the
new
standards
that
we're
going
to
adopt.
H
F
F
So
we
will
be
delighted
to
to
hear
as
many
views
across
leads
as
we
can,
but
it's
important
to
give
those
consultees
something
to
respond
to
and
work
work
with
within
the
context
that
we're
we're
setting
out
so
so
there's
definitely
an
opportunity
there
for
for
more
work
and
and
a
two-way
consultation,
counselor
anderson
and
obviously
learning
as
well
from
some
of
those
neighborhood
groups.
Who've
we've
already
moved
forward
with
specific
parts
of
this
agenda.
F
A
C
C
C
Our
friends
recall
them
friends
for
the
moment
in
the
certain
parts
of
the
housing
development
industry,
we'll
be
looking
at
every
way
possible
of
getting
around
some
of
these
initiatives
that
we
want
to
set-
quite
rightly,
I
might
add,
but
I
would
like
some
reassurance
on
that,
because
I
don't
see
a
lot
of
point
in
getting
ourselves
into
battles
that
we
then
can't
win.
So
could
have
some
clarity
on
that.
Please.
A
Thanks
andrew
I
mean
just
just
from
my
perspective,
then
I'll
bring
officers
in
comprehensive
nicole
for
commenting
on
the
legality
of
things,
but
I
mean
we
should
be
confident
enough
in
our
evidence
base
that
leads
us
to
2030.
As
we've
said
before
many
times
this
panel,
we
didn't
pluck
that
out
the
air
for
no
reason
the
20
I
mean
the
2030
stroke.
2038
dates
are
interesting.
I
mean
a
lot
of
the
substantive
policy
and
investment
decisions
you
need
to
take
for
2013.
2038
are
not
hugely
different
in
most
respects.
A
F
Chair,
if
I,
if
I
come
in
then
others
may
want
to
supplement,
but
but
I
think
it's
a
really
important
point.
That's
that's
that's
raised,
but
the
key
thing
I
think
here
to
remember
is
that
the
development
plan,
the
local
development
plan,
has
got
primacy
and
in
in
terms
of
determining
new
development,
it's
a
plan
led
system.
So
if
we
evidence-
and
we
cement
within
these
policies
that
there
is
the
the
the
importance
of
the
2030
date,
the
2030
date
becomes
our
evidence
for
the
heightened
policies.
F
C
C
A
C
Perhaps
so
I
haven't
previously
got
involved
with
planning
our
colleague
councillor
brooks
has
raised
this
with
us
on
a
number
of
occasions
for
people
in
her
ward,
and
you
know
we
will
get
obviously
those
with
organized
neighborhood
groups
and
what
have
you
fully
engaged
in
the
process,
but
how
can
we
make
perhaps
a
simplified
version
so
that
we
can
engage
with
more
people
across
the
city?
Thank
you.
A
H
I
think
we've
got
to
find
a
way
to
express
this
in
a
in
a
way
that
that
people
can
understand
and
engage
with,
and
that
can
be
tricky
sometimes
because
the
planning
system
forces
us
to
think
in
a
evidential
basis
and
we're
almost
always
predicting
that
we're
going
to
be
in
an
examination
in
public.
I
think
we
need
to
perhaps
reorientate
ourselves
to
make
sure
that
this
consultation
is
about
the
public.
H
G
D
D
Secondly,
to
say
that
as
an
ex-teacher
of
reading,
we
do
challenge
ourselves
in
planning,
I
have
to
say-
and
there
are
much
simpler
ways
of
saying
what
a
lot
of
our
papers
say,
and
whilst
I
hear
what
mr
feeney
has
said
about,
we
need
to
come
away
from
the
technical
language
and
and
express
it.
In
plain
english.
I
haven't
yet
seen
a
planning
document.
That
successfully
does
that.
I
think
your
presentation,
if
I
might
say
so,
came
towards
it
and
perhaps
that
might
be
the
basis
or
the
format
for
something
that
goes
out.
D
But
I
really
do
feel
very
strongly
that,
when
we're
working
with
the
public,
we
have
to
speak
a
language
that
everyone
can
understand
and
planning
documents
are
very,
very
difficult
if
you're
not
from
a
planning
background,
and
I
think
it
would
almost
be
worth.
I
know
we're
very
short
of
funds
at
the
moment,
but
using
a
specialist
to
help
us
do
that,
because
we
haven't
actually
managed
to
pull
that
off.
Yet,
in
my
view,
thank
you
for
raising
it
kevin.
I
think
it
was
an
important
point.
E
Thank
you,
colleagues,
how
that's
another
spot,
there's
point
in
the
conversation
picked
up
some
of
the
points
I
was
going
to
make.
I
was
going
to
reiterate
your
point
that
we've
worked
with
the
leads
climate
commission
to
develop
an
evidence-based
scientific
assessment
of
our
climate
reduction
reduction
time.
E
A
Thanks
very
much
lisa
yeah.
I
I
very
much
agree.
I
think
officers
have
come
back
with
a
really
strong,
detailed
piece
of
work,
which
is
very
much
in
alignment
with
what
members
have
been
talking
about,
also,
which
is
which
is
fantastic
in
in
terms
of
sort
of
the
individual
topic
areas.
Are
there
any
particular
do
any
members
want
to
bring
up
any
particular
points
sort
of
across
I'm
not
going
to
intend
to
go
through
them
point
by
point,
but
you
know
with
with
replacement
and
warning
into
that
kind
of
thing,
sustainable
construction.
A
A
C
A
C
A
C
Right
there,
a
couple
of
areas
when
you
talk
about
specifics,
yeah
one
is
the
tree
planting
and
I
think
we've
been
even
with
the
current
policy.
We
never
come
anywhere
near
a
three
for
one
replacement,
and
so
whatever
we
do,
we
need
to
be
both,
as
I
say,
radical,
but
we
need
to
pick
up
what
we've
missed
in
the
past
and
I'm
I'm
I'm
not
sure
how
the
mechanism
for
either
the
I
suppose
calculating
the
carbon
capture
of
or
a
replacement
works.
So
I'd
probably
like
to
see
that
explained.
C
The
other
thing
relates
to
green
infrastructure,
which
again
we
talk
a
lot
about,
but
we're
never
very
good
at
producing
and
either
we,
I
think
again.
We
have
to
set
some
really
clear
targets
for
development,
about
how
much
greens
sorry
how
much
usable
green
space
they
provide
and
at
the
moment
we're
not
doing
that,
and
I
think
that
needs
to
be
something
that
we
need
to
look
at
closely
in
the
future.
A
Okay,
chip,
no
thanks!
You
know
I
I
agree.
I
mean
when
I
set
a
note:
I've
got
scribble
for
this
meeting.
One
of
them
was
touching
on
how
how
do
we?
How
do
we
calculate
net
net
carbon
gain
from
from
from
the
biodiversity
aspects
of
any
kind
of
policy,
any
kind
of
development
when
it
comes
to
down
to
the
coal
face
of
granting
permissions?
A
How
do
we
calculate
that
so
again,
there's
officers
to
go
away,
and
I
know
it's
in
progress
adam,
but
it's
to
to
keep
looking
at
what
mechanisms
have
been
used
around
around
the
piece
about
that,
and
you
know
you
mentioned
that
in
your
presentation.
So
do
you
want
to
come
back
on
that
specific
point?
Please
adam.
A
B
B
If
the
truth
be
told,
but
this
person
was
arguing
that
that
should
become
standard
in
all
new
houses
nowadays,
because
we,
since
we
first
talked
about
climate
change,
not
just
the
council,
this
is
nationally
yeah.
There
have
been
hundreds
of
thousands
of
houses
built
that
are
not
in
compliance
with
anybody's
targets
for
anything
that,
because
we've
always
put
you
off
until
tomorrow,
you
know:
we've
always
watched
her
down
as
a
country
targets
for
these
sort
of
things,
and
the
other
thing
that
was
being
suggested
is.
B
B
So
we
need
to
make
sure
that
our
policies
reflect
what's
going
to
happen
as
far
as
that's
concerned
and
also
how
we're
going
to
heat
the
housing
in
terms
of
at
the
moment,
it
looks
as
though
gas
is
on
its
way
out.
Are
we
going
to
say
that
it
should
be
hydrogen,
or
should
it
be
electricity,
and
also
when
it
comes
to
the
more
general
policy
on
materials
etc?
The
other
sister
document
as
to
what
role
we
see
if
any
and
counselor
blackburn's
not
here
to
get
upset
about
it,
nuclear
you
know.
What's
what?
B
How
are
we
going
to
deal
with
that
in
terms
of
heating,
our
houses?
The
next
one
is
on
tree
planting
tree
replacement.
I
do
think
we've
got
to
be
tougher
on
the
number
of
trees
that
we're
getting
replaced
because
we're
we're
losing
too
many
trees.
Now
we've
got
three
for
one.
There
is
a
potential
thought
of
30.
B
Now,
if
there
is
time
and
counselor
collins
doesn't
come
in,
she
did
send
me
through
her
concerns,
but
I'll
leave
it
in
case
she
comes
into
the
call,
and
she
can
then
express
that
herself,
but
she
has
a
number
of
points
she
wants
to
make,
but
she
has
sent
them
to
me
in
advance.
Okay,
not
going
to
put
them
forward
just
now,
but
if
you
could
remember
to
bring
me
back
in
again
if
she's
not
got
into
the
call.
Thank
you.
A
Thanks
barry
as
a
lot
to
unpack
yeah,
just
before
officers
come
in
just
members
cast
their
mind
back
to
when
we
started
this
profit,
we
are
aiming
to
have
a
set
of
polities
that
are
as
future
proof
as
we
can
possibly
make
them,
and
they
stand
up
to
to
the
rigors
of
of
interrogation
as
it
were.
That
includes
things
like
photovoltaics,
being
mandatory
hedgerows,
been
mandatory,
passive
or
nearest
possible
standards
through
materials,
then
technology
that
kind
of
thing
barry
so
yeah,
rest
issue.
That
is
that
is
this.
A
This
document
is
a
point
along
that
journey.
To
get
to
that
point,
so,
for
example,
I
mean,
if
we'd
have
said
10
years
ago,
that
photovoltaics
would
generate
electricity
and
pale
ambient
winter
light.
Probably
none
of
us
would
have
thought
that
was
the
case,
but
they
do
so.
You
know-
and
it's
just
I
mean
just
to
say
just
as
a
general
point
and
possibly
hopefully
the
developers
might
be
watching
this.
I
might
see
this
point.
A
None
of
what
we're
asking
for
is
sci-fi
technology
right.
Despite
my
love
of
star
trek,
this
is
not
a
star
trekian
paper
and
a
process
we're
in
right.
Nothing
is
unachievable
right
right
now,
so
in
cash
your
mind
back
to
2008
with
a
sustainable
home
code,
it
was
all
achievable.
Then
we
are
effectively
playing
catch-up
since
that
was
junked
in
2011.
A
developers.
This
is
when
we're
talking
about
the
future
of
future
of
leads
and
and
developers
coming
towards
us
with
proposals
this
this
when
these
come
through
to
policy
fruition.
This
is
what
they
are
going
to
have
to
do
and
if
they're
not
going
to
do
it,
then
they're
not
going
to
get
permission
because
we'd
be
derelict
duty.
If
we
didn't
stick
to
this,
so
they
are
going
to
be
incredibly
strong,
powerful
policies
when
they
come
to.
We
come
to
the
sign
off
point
post
consultations.
A
So
what
members
to
be
really
really
sure
about
that,
because
we'll
ensure
that
they
are
like
that,
as
this
panel,
I'm
sure
will,
because
anyone
watching
will
be
able
to
detect
a
strong
theme
from
this
panel
is
the
amount
of
consensus
there
are
on
these
policy
goals.
So
again,
developers
should
be
advised
of
that.
So
on
that
note,
for
officers,
do
you
want
to
come
in
on
counselors
points
which
are
very.
H
H
What
one
of
the
issues
that
we
currently
have
is
obviously
resolves
around
technical
expertise
as
well,
and
we're
growing
and
learning
all
the
time
on
things
like
this,
as
the
industry
is
as
well,
it's
a
bit
of
a
journey
that
we're
all
on
the
benefit
of
standards
such
as
brian
or
passivhaus,
or
any
other
recognized
accredited
schemes.
Is
that
they're
an
independent
verification
of
compliance?
H
So
if
we
can
properly
integrate
those,
we
can
get
almost
signed
off
that
this
met
a
certain
standard,
a
tick.
What
we
need
to
ensure
is
that
that
that's
the
scheme,
that's
built,
and
I
think
you
you
refer
to
that
in
your
question.
Yes,
okay,
give
him
consent
what
what
about
what's
actually
built
and
you're.
Absolutely
right.
I
think,
as
I
referred
to
in
the
presentation,
one
of
the
conversations
we've
had
recently
with
the
university
about
whole
life
carbon
cycle.
H
What
we've
seen
is
policies
that
propose
that
an
assessment
is
done
perhaps
at
pre-application
for
the
sort
of
whole
life.
Carbon
cost
development,
then
perhaps
at
the
application
stage,
but
then
almost
as
a
as
a
condition
like
a
pre-commencement
condition
that
you
will
not
be
allowed
to
start
development
until
we
see
evidence
that
the
scheme
meets
the
standards
that
you
said
that
it
met
at
an
earlier
stage.
Now
that
is
in
early
stages
of
formulation.
It's
a
draft
policy
in
the
london
plan
and
I
think
it's
a
draft
policy
in
the
manchester
plan
as
well.
H
There
are
lots,
as
I
said,
that
can
be
a
way
that
perhaps
we
can
get
better
data
and
better
certainty
about
what
what
actually
gets
developed
in
terms
of
renewable
energy
generation.
You
said
that
we
need
targets,
I
think
clearly,
we've
had
targets
in
the
past.
As
I
said,
and
we've
we've
successfully
got,
targets
found
sound
and
we've
exceeded.
H
H
Clearly,
what
we're
talking
about
here
is
new
developments.
We
we
can't
really
set
policies
for
the
retrofitting
of
old
ones.
That's
that's
going
to
be
a
different
part
of
of
the
of
the
equation.
Isn't
it
in
terms
of
new
new
houses,
though
I
suppose
it
comes
down
to,
as
I
said
in
the
presentation,
do
we
want
to
be
prescriptive
about
things
like
that?
H
Or
do
we
want
to
provide
developers
with
a
range
of
options
about
how
they
might
meet
zero
carbon
emissions
and
for
them
to
make
those
choices
as
suits
their
site
their
proposal?
I
think
that'll
be
interesting
when
it
comes
out
consultation.
I
think
we
can
certainly
ask
questions
about
that
about
because
I
think
a
lot
of
people
want
to
see
photovoltaics
as
clearly
members
do.
So.
That's
certainly
something
we
can
tease
out
through
consultation,
air
and
ground
source
heat
pumps.
I'll
be
honest,
that's
not
an
area
of
personal
expertise.
H
As
I
said
in
terms
of
the
energy
storage
aspects,
I
think
we're
probably
fortunate
that
the
kind
of
places
that
you
would
locate
electrical
storage
or
energy
storage
facilities
would
probably
be
the
same
places
that
you
would
find
suitable
for
hydrogen
as
well
they're,
not
in
residential
areas.
You
know,
they're
not
going
to
be
next
to
schools
or
anything
like
that.
H
They're
going
to
be
probably
industrial
areas
disused,
perhaps,
but
certainly
with
a
really
good
connection
to
the
grid,
and
I
think,
whilst
we
don't
have
a
hydrogen
grid
dewey
as
yet
you're
right
that
we
need
to
be
future
proof
in
that
it's
emerging
how
that
works
as
a
network.
We
still
don't
quite
understand
yet,
but
I
think,
as
you
say,
let's
try
and
make
sure
that
the
policies
are
future-proof
for
those
kind
of
eventualities.
H
Carb
refueling
on
hydrogen
is
perhaps
a
little
bit
too
early
to
say
what
our
approach
to
something
like
that
should
be.
I
agree
with
you.
We
probably
shouldn't
be
encouraging
hydrogen
tanks
at
the
front
of
people's
houses,
but
I
think
the
approach
that
we
should
be
taking
is
probably
one
that
we're
going
to
have
to
develop.
It
may
not
necessarily
be
for
this
plan.
Perhaps
it
may
be
for
future
plans
or
supplementary
guidance
to
this
plan
in
terms
of
heating
homes.
Should
that
be
electricity,
nuclear
options?
H
I
mean
it's
not
going
to
be
within
the
planning
remit
to
discuss
nuclear.
It's
it's
not
going
to
be
a
part
of
local
plan
update.
I
wouldn't
have
thought
whether
that's
part
of
the
national
grid's
approach
to
electricity
generation
is
obviously
a
matter
for
them
in
terms
of
tree
replacement
yeah.
I
welcome
the
point
that
we
need
to
be
tougher
and
I
think
that's
reflected
in
in
the
report.
Hopefully
in
the
presentation
as
well.
H
30
was,
is
an
average
figure
really
to
reflect,
as
I
say,
a
very
heavier
heavy
average
figure
to
reflect
the
amount
of
carbon
that
we
think
is
lost
from
from
a
tree
and
replaced
by
saplings
so
essentially
to
replace
that
amount
of
carbon
you'd
be
looking
at
probably
30
saplings,
but
I've
seen
a
variety
of
different
figures
for
that
all
the
way
up
to
100.
To
be
frank,
so
I
think
15
and
20
is
you
know,
is
a
realistic
figure.
H
I
completely
agree,
and
I
think
that
relates
very
heavily
to
place
making.
I
think
the
strengthening
of
place
making
and
tying
back
to
carbon
emissions
and
health
and
well-being,
as
I
said
earlier,
those
links
probably
not
sufficiently
made
and
they
and
they
need
to
be
helen.
If
I
can
bring
you
in
in
terms
of
the
discussion
on
air
and
ground
source
heat
pumps,
if
you're
able
to
contribute
to
that.
D
A
Yeah,
thanks
ellen,
I
I
agree
we
have
to.
We
have
to
build
that
into
the
consultation
process,
just
just
just
on
that,
and
if
you
want
to
come
back
on
any
of
those
points,
buried
I'll
just
bring
you
in
a
sec,
but
so
adam.
Could
you?
How
do
we
get
and
council
mckenna
smile
riley
at
this?
But
how
do
we
get
some
sort
of
green
engineering
into
buildings.
A
Chad
is
there
any
way
we
can
get
more?
Okay,
I'm
just
gonna,
say
green
walls
built
into
things
look.
I
know
this
looks
like
an
obsession
of
mine
but
they're
good
at
scrubbing,
local
air
of
pollutants,
and
they
provide
you
know
carbon
capture,
oxygen
production
at
a
place
where
often
there's
not
much
of
that
going
on.
A
So
how
do
we?
How
do
we
get
that
out
of
the
consultation
process
to
help
best?
Do
that?
Because
at
the
moment,
as
council
mechanic
to
a
tester,
we
experience
some
pushback
from
developers
on
this
issue
and
we'd
like
to
get
around
that
because
we're
seeing
it
around
the
world.
There
are
so
many
proposals
flying
around
for
for
green
engineering
into
buildings,
and
I'd
want
to
see
that
us
put
out
to
the
to
the
community
leaders
to
how
we
how
we
do
that
as
best
we
can,
that
is
affordable
and
effective
and
sensible
anyway.
F
Yeah,
if
I
could
just
come
back
on
that,
I
mean
to
me
that's
about
being
really
clear
about
what
we're
expecting
from
green
space
in
development,
because
at
the
moment
it
seems
to
me
that
we
expect
an
awful
lot
from
green
space.
We
expect
it
to
serve
a
recreation
and
a
play
and
an
amenity
and
a
carbon
capture
and
an
air
quality
and
a
biodiversity
and
an
access
role.
F
So
I
think
it's
being
really
clear
that
that
actually,
just
putting
a
bit
of
grass
in
a
development
doesn't
automatically
fulfill
all
of
those
objectives.
It
needs
to
be
planned.
It
needs
to
be
designed.
It
needs
to
be
maintained.
It
needs
to
be
connected,
which
is
the
importance
of
looking
at
green
infrastructure
and
biodiversity
and
building
design
and
place
making
as
a
whole,
and
I
think,
with
the
green
walls.
C
F
Where,
in
order
to
make
sure
that
communities
there
are
as
resilient
as
possible,
we're
putting
as
much
green
infrastructure
in
now,
if
that
can't
be
through
on
the
ground
green
infrastructure,
then
that
that
has
to
be
through
green
walls
and
green
roofs.
So
it's
it's
going
to
be
an
approach
that
that's
spatially,
distinctive
and
responsive
to
the
opportunities
to
developers
on
particular
sites
in
leeds,
as
well
as
clarifying
the
purposes
of
green
infrastructure,
including
green
walls
and
roofs.
A
G
Thank
you,
chair
just
to
add
to
martin's
comments.
I
think,
in
terms
of
the
the
issues
that
council
anderson
has
raised
an
observation
that
members
are
raising.
I
think
the
key
thrust
of
this
is
around
the
fabric
first
principles
to
make
sure
that
the
actual
basic
building,
design
and
fabric
meet
the
environmental
credentials
that
we're
describing
and
want
to
push
forward
linked
to.
G
It's
something
that
needs
to
be
literally
integrated
as
part
of
the
ground
up,
and
I
think,
as
martin
has
described
in
terms
of
the
the
urban
heat
island
affect
not
just
in
the
city
centre
but
in
major
settlements.
Then
it's
about
the
resilience
of
those
places
and
communities
that
live
within
them.
So
again,
it's
about
it
being
integral
to
those
places
rather
than
something
which
is
seen
as
an
optional
extra
or
some
afterthought
down
the
line,
it's
about
it
being
integral
to
it.
G
So
I
think
it's
about
the
presentation
of
how
all
of
these
policies
work
together
as
a
package,
rather
than
being
seen
as
sort
of
individual
choices.
It's
about
having
a
combination
of
solutions
and
options
which
suit
places
in
those
communities
through
these
policies,
but
making
sure
that
the
policies
are
starting
from
the
right
point.
Yeah.
Thank
you.
A
B
Think
it
did
they
just
originally.
I
would
when
I
was
talking
about
ground
source
and
air
heat
bumps.
I
was
actually
talking
about
it
as
individual
houses
so
that
they
have,
and
so
they
have
a
a
sustainable
source
of
energy,
because
I
mean
I'm
not
responsible
for
government
policy,
but
I
would
have
thought
that
they're
going
to
have
to
end
up
taxing
people
who
have
got
inefficient
and
ineffective
ways
and
providing
the
subsidy
to
those
that
have
taken
the
time
to
actually
put
those
measures
in.
So
you
need
to
find
an
incentive.
B
A
A
A
D
Of
course,
that's
my
preferred
option
and
if
I
was
a
member
of
the
public
who
was
not
as
familiar
with
the
issues
in
this
paper,
that
would
be
my
preferred
option.
How
how
achievable
is
that
and
how
on
earth
are
we
going
to
get
into
dialogue
with
developers
on
those
on
all
of
those
options,
because
they're
all
fabulous
options?
D
I
don't
know
how
many
times
I've
heard
councillor
campbell
push
on
a
implant's
panel
when
we're
looking
at
the
development
to
say,
they've
they've
put
the
green
space
on
the
little
tiny
bit
that
they
can't
put
houses
on
and
it's
shoved
into
a
corner.
It's
on
a
steep
incline.
It's
got
various
things
on
it
which
obstruct
play
and
any
other
activity,
and
possibly
some
dangerous
water
or
flooding
nearby,
and
that's
why
they're
using
it
as
green
space
because
they
can't
get
houses
on
it.
I've
heard
a
light.
D
I
hope
I'm
not
doing
you
an
injustice
colin,
but
I
I've
heard
you
say
that
many
occasions
and
I've
agreed
with
it.
How
are
we
going
to
get
these
ideas
through?
How
are
we
going
to
win
developers
over?
I
mean
even
that
initial
meeting
that
we
did
have,
which
was
very
interesting.
We
were
nowhere
near
this
level
of
commitment
with
with
developers
so
but
to
me
that
this
is
the
weakness
of
this
consultation.
We
absolutely
need
some
on
the
inside
with
us,
helping
us
develop
these
and
being
committed
to
them
and
providing
examples.
A
A
Just
remember
is
the
climate
visited
advisory
committee
that
I
checked
about
the
need
to
to
take
forward
the
developers
forum
we
had
started
and
then
2020
rather
got
in
the
way
that
we
need
to
take
forward.
Let's
be
clear,
though,
developers
are
a
real
mixed
bag.
Aren't
they
there
are
some
developers.
We've
got
some
excellent
ones
in
leeds.
People
like
situ
and
cg
will
get
this
and
understand
this
and
want
to
move
forward
with
this
agenda,
and
there
are
others.
A
We
know
full
well
that
are
going
to
fight
anything
tooth
and
nail
that
could
possibly
take
a
penny
away
from
them
from
their
profits,
despite
the
risk
that
would
put
themselves
and
everyone
in
leaving
in
the
country
and
in
the
world
too,
and
that's
that's
putting
it
pretty
starkly.
But
that's
what
we're
talking
about
really.
D
F
Chair,
I
think
the
answer
is
yes
and
we
are
seeing
that
from
particular
developers.
What
we're
not
seeing
that
is
from
all
developers.
So
there's
a
number
of
things
to
do
here.
One
is
to
confirm,
through
this
placemaking
agenda,
that
a
lot
of
these
objectives
that
we're
trying
to
achieve
here
can
be
achieved
at
the
same
time.
F
Panel
meetings,
which
was
the
planning
white
paper,
where
the
government
have
understood
that
the
public
are
not
happy
with
the
quality
of
housing
that
they
are
receiving
and
that
there's
a
problem
with
the
design
of
that
now
now
we
said
design
should
be
treated
in
its
widest
sense
to
include
a
lot
of
what
we're
talking
about
here
today
and
I
think
that's
where
we
need
to
go
with
these
policies
now.
Is
it
viable
sorry,
counselor,
yeah.
F
No,
that's
okay,
but
but
you're
absolutely
correct,
councillor,
gruen
and
that
the
question
is:
is
that
viable?
So
we
have
evidence
of
some
developers
doing
that
and
doing
it.
Well,
we
have
evidence
of
other
developers
trying
to
do
some
of
that
within
their
within
the
volume
house
builders.
But
what
we
need
to
do
is
get
everybody
doing
that
all
of
the
time
and
that's
where
we
need
to
advocate
that.
A
Well,
this
is
this:
is
the
process
that
changes
it
and
changes
it
radically
and
will
give
plans,
panels
and
and
development
control
officers
all
the
tools
they
need
to
make
this
real
and
to
make
our
ambitions
real,
and
if
we
don't
reach
that
point
at
the
end
of
this
process
will
have
failed.
So,
let's
perhaps,
let's
make
sure
we
don't
castle.
Mulherin
is
taking
an
important
call.
So
what
I
was
going
to
suggest
we
do
is
any
any
further
policy
comment:
yeah
adam.
H
Sorry
I
just
wanted
to
respond
to
the
point
to
cancer
grew
in
just
to
supplement
something
that
martin
had
said.
Whilst
the
council
is
obviously
being
incredibly
innovative
with
what
we're
proposing
we're,
not
unique
in
trying
to
get
some
of
these
policies
through
and
reading
already
have
got
adopted
a
zero
carbon
policy.
H
Now
I
don't
think
it's
necessarily
as
ambitious,
perhaps
as
as
ours
is,
but
but
or
at
least
our
thoughts
around
this
whole
topic
might
be,
but
for
them
to
have
got
that
adopted,
they
needed
to
demonstrate
the
viability
of
such
an
approach.
We'll
obviously
need
to
go
through
that
evidence.
I
think
for
our
own
benefit,
but
but
it
has
been
done
and
that
should
give
us
some
confidence
that
that
we
can
do
something
similar
or
even
more
ambitious.
A
G
B
The
issues
that
she's
that
she's
making
is
the
use
of
land
in
order
to
generate
local
food,
she
thinks
there's
a
need
to
analyze
the
effectiveness
of
the
farmland
we've
got
at
the
moment,
so
in
effect,
there
needs
to
be
more
protection
of
land
for
food
production
locally
and
nationally.
So
she
would
like
that
built
in
I'm
pretty
seeing
what
she's
saying-
and
she
also
thinks
that
there
might
be
a
mix-up
in
some
people's
minds
when
it
comes
to
place,
making
and
providing
habitat
for
wildlife.
B
Unfortunately,
the
domestic
dog
is
the
key
reason
why
the
two
are
mutually
exclusive.
What
is
meant
by
green
infrastructure?
Is
it
for
people
or
wildlife?
This
needs
to
be
made
clearer.
So
basically,
her
view
land
uses
should
be
for
development,
food
planes,
solar
farms,
wood
farms,
energy
storage,
agriculture
and
farming,
wildlife,
woodland
creation,
etc,
etc.
But
she
just
wanted
me
to
make
sure
that
those
points
were
made
about
land
use.
B
I
think,
although
I
don't
sit
on
that,
her
subgroup,
I
think
we're
just
coming
from,
is
the
discussions
that
she
has
in
the
climate
change
biodiversity
group
and
feeding
in
the
comments
that
you've
made.
I
think
you're
a
party
to
that.
I
think
that's
where
she's
coming
from
in
terms
of
her
concerns.
F
Chair,
if
I
may,
I
mean
I,
I
sit
on
the
the
biodiversity
and
food
meeting
as
well.
I'm
perfectly
happy
to
to
work
through
the
progression
of
these
policies
with
that
group,
because
I
think
it
is
really
important
for
that
group
to
also
help
us
get
some
local
farming
advocates
to
understand
how
how
land
can
be
used.
F
A
E
E
It's
very
hard
to
kind
of
have
a
figure
when
you're
looking
at
very
different
subjects,
so
the
size
of
the
tree,
the
type
of
the
tree
really
changes
the
value
in
terms
of
its
carbon
reduction
and-
and
I
think,
there's
been
a
lot
of
good
work
done.
I
think
it's
referred
to
in
the
report
by
the
united
bank
of
carbon
and
worked
up
at
the
university
of
leeds,
which
really
demonstrates
the
differences
that
you
get
depending
on
the
type
and
maturity
of
trees.
E
So
it's
not
really
as
simple
as
saying
you
know:
three
free
trees
for
everyone
that
needs
to
be
replaced
so
yeah.
I
try
to
support
that,
but
also
really,
I
think,
quite
a
while
ago,
councillor
campbell
made
comments
about
needing
to
be
ambitious
and
supporting.
Then
the
statements
in
the
report
around
ensuring
we
have
zero
carbon
standards
and
sustainable
construction
of
homes
and
looking
at
that
lifetime
kind
of
value
of
the.
E
So
in
in
this
country,
we
have
periods
of
time
where,
for
instance,
solar
power
is
more
effective
than
others
and
looking
out
at
the
sky
today,
it's
less
effective
with
the
daylight
today.
So
the
the
the
capacity
to
then
store
power
when
it's
generated
is
really
really
important,
and
I
think
that's
something
that
we
maybe
could
improve.
A
Great,
no,
I
I
agree
with
that
which
martin
and
adam
can
build
in.
I
don't
think
the
person
from
my
point.
I
don't
think
that
the
sort
of
15-20
minute
neighborhood
idea
is
going
to
go
away.
I
think
this
year
I
think
people
have
got
a
renewed
taste
for
being
local
and
having
more
things
locally
and
spending
a
lot
more
time,
a
lot
less
time
rather
commuting.
It's
very
instructive,
not
the
twitter's,
the
world
or
anything
folks,
but
there
was
a
times
journalist
that
rather
unwisely
tried
to
write
a
story.
A
That's
saying
the
commute
was
essential
part
of
people's
character
and
who
they
are.
There
was
the
replies
to
our
tweet
that,
like
the
link
to
the
article,
were
quite
instructive
that
a
lot
of
people
across
the
country
really
don't
like
commuting
if
at
all
possible.
So
I
think
it's
quite
it's.
It's
gonna
inform
a
lot
of
our
policy
work
there
and
I
don't
think
it'll
go
away.
Even
post
post
are
covered
unpleasantness
right.
Do
any
officers
want
to
come
back
on
that
at
all.
H
I
think
I
think
they
were
all
very,
very
good
points.
I
think,
certainly
in
terms
of
the
20-minute
neighborhood
we
we
can
certainly
expand
on
that
when
we
come
back
in
january
in
terms
of
both
the
infrastructure
parts
and
the
kind
of
locations
of
growth
parts
as
well,
I
think
they
have
a
big
role
to
play
there
and
yeah
absolutely
recognize
that
where,
where
the
report
needs
to
be,
perhaps
it's
more
fleshed
out
and
we'll
obviously
reflect
on
that
and
make
sure
that's
improved
for
the
next
version.
A
A
lot
for
that
right,
I
think
we're
coming
to
the
end
of
proceedings
just
about
looking
to
our
officer.
Colleagues.
Is
there
anything
further?
We
need
to
know,
I
mean
we've,
given
you
an
awful
lot
of
input
this
afternoon,
which
is
excellent.
Thank
you
very
much
folks,
there's
anything
else.
We
need
to
cover
adam
martin,
mr
feeney.
G
Cool
thank
you
for
me
chair.
Thank
you.
It's
just
to
say
this
is
an
important
piece
of
work
and
we
are
trying
to
look
forward
and
future
proof
the
city
and
not
be
caught
in
a
set
of
policy
constructs
at
a
point
in
time.
So
it's
important
that
the
policies
have
the
reach.
I
think
that
you've
you've
asked
for
and
that
we
provide
that
strategic
context
longer
term.
So
I
think
it's
a
useful
debate
and
some
helpful
comments.
We
can
take
away
and
build
into
the
to
the
further
work.
So
thank
you.
A
Excellent,
yes,
you
all
the
cover
you
need
to
be
as
radical
as
you
want
you've
seen
the
consensus
across
the
groups
from
from
this
panel
and
that'll
be
reflected
going
forward.
I'm
absolutely
sure
on
that
basis,
folks,
I
think
we're
done
well.
Thank
you
very
much
now
tash.
When
are
our
next
meeting
dates,
because
you
know
I
want
to
remember
them
off
the
top
ahead.
So
if
you
could
come
in
and
bail
me
out,
that'd
be
really
helpful.