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From YouTube: Leeds City Council - Environment, Housing & Communities Scrutiny Board - 20 January 2023
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A
A
Welcome
to
the
most
recent
meeting
of
the
treasury
board,
environment,
housing
and
communities
I'll
go
through
the
introductions
and
various
other
things
in
a
minute,
but
because
we
are,
this
is
going
to
be
a
remote
consultative
meeting.
I've
got
something
I
need
to
read
out
to
any
members
of
the
public
who
are
coming
in.
This
is
a
remote
consultative
meeting
of
the
environment,
housing
and
communities
board.
A
This
remote
session
has
been
arranged
to
allow
members
to
discuss
the
approach
in
Leeds
to
reducing
gambling
harm
for
the
purposes
of
information
and
transparency.
Last
year,
a
high
court
ruling
clarified
that,
as
of
the
7th
of
May
2021,
local
authorities
are
required
to
conduct
physical
meetings
to
take
formal
decisions
under
this
consultative
arrangement.
A
Those
will
be
referred
for
formal
approval
at
the
next
physical
public
meeting
of
the
board
on
the
2nd
of
February.
So
that
said,
can
I
ask
any
members
to
disclose
any
interests
that
they
would
like.
Registered
I
see
none
okay,
so
the
only
apologies
I've
received
is
from
councilor
Smith.
Has
anybody
of
any
other
group
received
any
apologies
from
any
of
their
colleagues
that
we
need
to
formally
record
no
okay?
That's
fine!
A
A
A
J
A
No
have
I
missed
anybody
out
unintentionally,
I
can
assure
you
I,
think
I
think
I've
managed
to
get
everybody
good,
okay,
all
right
so
everybody's.
So
what
I'd
like
to
do
now
is
I
want
to
invite
to
Duckworth
to
bring
out
the
highlights
of
the
report
and
then
I'll
get
Matt
Gaskell
to
talk
to
us
for
about
five
minutes
outlining
what
his
service
does
and
then
we'll
open
it
to
questions
and
debate
so
sue
over
to
you.
E
E
E
So
it
seems
obvious
that
the
best
way
of
reducing
gambling
harms
would
be
to
reduce,
or
at
least
hope,
the
licensing
of
gambling
premises.
And
that's
why
entertainment
licensing
is
here
and
over
the
years
this
has
been
our
first
Port
of
Call.
However,
the
regulation
of
gambling
is
complicated
and
it's
split
between
the
local
Authority
and
the
gambling
Commission.
E
The
gambling
commission
is
the
national
regulator
and
it's
responsible
for
regulating
gambling
operators,
and
this
includes
those
operate
physical
betting
premises
such
as
betting
shops
and
those
that
provide
online
gambling
via
websites,
apps
phones
and
so
on.
They
also
regulate
the
national
lottery
and
scratch
cards.
They
determine
what
social
responsibility
measures
should
be
taken
by
operators,
they
determine
the
gaming
machine,
technical
standards
and
even
what
constitute
something
like
bingo.
E
E
The
ability
to
refuse
a
gambling
application
is
severely
restricted
and
the
most
we
can
do
realistically
is
to
apply
a
range
of
conditions.
So
this
is
the
approach
that
we
now
take
in
partnership
with
our
communities
to
ensure
that
any
licensed
premises
does
not
negatively
impact
on
the
locality
in
which
it
sits.
E
It
works.
We've
applied
a
condition
to
an
adult,
aiming
Center
in
hair
Health.
That's
led
to
some
great
interaction
between
that
primary
system,
treatment
services
and
has
led
to
a
number
of
referrals.
However,
I
must
advise
the
number
of
applications.
The
authorities
asked
to
consider
each
year
is
very
small.
E
We
only
get
one,
maybe
two,
and
in
some
years
we
don't
receive
any
applications
whatsoever.
Over
the
past
few
years,
we've
seen
the
number
of
vetting
viruses
decline
and,
as
that
leads
itself,
is
the
third
largest
licensing
Authority.
You
can
see
that
local
governments,
fear
of
influence,
is
very
small.
E
E
We've
worked
in
partnership
with
other
organizations
and
across
the
whole
Council
to
make
a
real
intangible
difference
to
those
suffering
from
gambling
harm.
We
continue
to
do
so
through
our
multi-agency
partnership
approach
and
we
work
alongside
organizations
which
address
poverty
and
financial
hardship,
provide
treatment,
services,
offer
support
and
advice
to
the
residents
of
leads.
E
M
Thank
you
good
morning.
Everyone
I'm
very
pleased
to
be
here
to
tell
you
a
little
bit
about
the
NHS
Northern
gambling
service,
where
very
pleased
to
be
hosted
by
the
local
Authority
without
location
at
Marion
house,
where
we're
embedded
with
the
relevant
stakeholders
and
in
a
in
a
good
partnership
and
Leeds
is
one
of
the
cities
in
the
country
which
is
is
well
known
for
its
response
to
gambling
related
Farm.
M
M
We
have
a
specialist
multi-disciplinary
Workforce
made
up
of
psychologists,
psychotherapists
doctors,
mental
health,
nurses
and
importantly,
people
with
lived
experience,
they're
a
highly
trained
Workforce,
highly
skilled,
well
supported.
Can
we
offer
evidence-based
individual
group
and
mutual
peer
support
for
suffering
the
gambling
harm,
but
also
importantly,
for
affected
others
and
loved
ones?
So
it's
important
to
note.
We
often
focus
on
the
individual
gambler,
but
for
every
person
with
suffering
family
related
harm.
There
are
a
number
of
other
people
affected.
M
So,
who
do
we
see
without
going
into
two
which
we
effectively?
We
see
people
with
the
diagnosis
of
gambling
disorder
or
in
Lay
terms
or
gambling
addiction,
so
people
with
significant
gambling
pound,
as
well
as
I,
say
those
who
are
affected
by
loved
ones.
Gambling
and
the
person
suffering
from
gambling
related
harm
doesn't
need
to
be
in
treatment
for
a
loved
one
to
access
the
service,
so
loved
ones
do
access
to
service,
even
if
their
loved
one
is
continue
to
engage
in
significant
gambling.
M
M
M
If
you
like,
and
betting
at
higher
frequency,
the
length
of
gambling
is
14
years,
so
there
are
implications
there
for
identification,
and
prevention
and
treatment
is
not
really
the
number
one
response
to
gambling
related
harm
and
we
do
need
to
get
further
upstream
and
when
we
see
the
length
that
people
have
been
gambling
at
such
such
significant
levels,
the
distress
that
they're
in
when
they
come
to
us,
the
way
that
most
of
the
domains
of
their
life
have
collapsed
around
them.
By
the
time
they
come
to
us.
M
J
M
M
M
I
think
for
us
there
are
issues
around
prevention
and
earlier
identification,
embedding
gambling
harm
across
the
ecosystem
of
the
city,
to
enable
harms
to
be
better
identified
and
for
signposting
to
happen
and,
as
I
said
earlier,
this
is
really
about
taking
a
comprehensive
public
health
approach
and
preventing
the
harm
before
it
gets
to
the
state
that
we
see
every
day
in
our
Clinic.
So
that's
all
from
me
for
now
and
I'll
be
happy
to
take
questions.
A
Mate
thanks
very
much
for
that
now
in
terms
of
the
best
way
of
dealing
with
this.
It's
such
a
wide-ranging
paper
we've
got
here
and
some
of
the
questions
are
interrelated,
so
I'm
quite
happy.
If
we
we
don't
necessarily
have
to
go
through
things
in
order.
So
does
anybody
want
to
or
ask
the
first
question
anybody
got
any.
You
can
either
signal
by
putting
your
hand
up
physically
or
metaphorically
counselor
can.
F
You
know,
working
in
a
partnership
has,
you
know,
worked
well,
but
where
I'm
bit
of
had
a
bit
question
mark
is
the
public
health?
Actually
public
health,
for
some
reason
do
not
comment
on
some
licensing
premises.
I
think
they
need
to
be
more
proactive,
such
as
a
you
know.
The
other
West
Yorkshire
police
does
a
fantastic
job
as
well
with
us,
at
least
the
council,
but
Public
Health
I
think
these
people
Pro
activities.
Thank
you,
chair.
J
E
Okay,
so
with
regards
to
Public
Health,
our
lead
on
gambling
in
public
health
is
Metro
Albus,
and
she
was
due
to
be
here
today,
but
unfortunately
has
had
a
family
emergency.
So
I'm
sure
she
won't
mind.
If
I
speak
for
her
briefly
Public
Health
and
licensing,
we
have
a
a
really
good,
really
strong
relationship.
E
All
the
conditions
to
I
was
able
to
use
that
risk
tool
to
describe
the
issues
from
a
public
health
standpoint
of
what
was
happening
in
the
area,
and
it
was
on
the
basis
of
that
evidence
that
we
were
able
to
apply
so
many
conditions.
So
they
are
involved
on
an
application
side,
but
I
have
to
say,
as
I've
already
said,
we
get
so
few
applications
a
year.
Our
influence,
really
through
licensing,
is
actually
quite
small.
E
F
Yeah,
just
briefly
thank
you
so
for
that
assurance
and
can
I
just
take
the
opportunity.
On
behalf
of
my
colleagues
and
my
neighboring
colleagues
to
say,
thank
you.
You
know
you
put
a
lot
of
effort
on
that
licensing
and
we
made
sure
we
put.
We
had
the
right
conditions,
and
so
people
are
getting
help
from
that
premises
and
if
that
model
can
be
used,
other
areas
I
think
it
can
work
really
well.
Thank
you
and
pass
my
regards
to
all
the
offices.
Thank
you
right.
D
K
You
know
that
members,
for
example,
have
concerns
and
and
I'd
be
happy
to
personally
pass
that
on
to
the
team
and
as
I
mentioned
there,
it's
two.
There
were
two
officers
that
cover
the
whole
of
the
city,
but
they
are
Keen
to
get
any
leads
on
on
businesses
where
they
could
do
some
proactive
work
and
then
I
suppose
it's
probably
back
to
sue
on
the
licensing
Arrangements,
because
we
don't.
K
D
D
You
know
why
I
think
it's
really
important
that
we
we
do
reach
out
to
supermarkets
and,
as
a
like,
you
know,
like
Corner
shops
and
other
places
that
might
sell
them
just
to
just
just
to
try
and
I
know
that
we
can't
ban
it.
We
don't
have
the
power
to
ban
it,
but
like
just
to
just
to
try
and
try
and
reduce
that
harm
and
and
to
put
in
place
some
I.
Don't
know
why
I
mean
how
how
many,
how
many
supermarkets
and
how
many
shops
are.
K
It
is
so
I,
don't
have
those
numbers
to
hand,
but
I
can
get
them
for
you
from
these
Community
gambling
service
and
but
what
I
can
say
is
at
least
Community.
Gambling
service
have
worked
very
closely
with
an
officer
in
the
communities
team
called
Peter
Mudge
who
works
on
sort
of
local
centers
programs
and
Local,
High,
Street
and
Partnerships,
and
so
I
introduced
him.
I
think
it
was
in
response
to
the
merkuslots
application.
K
Actually,
so
they
are
working
together
and
where
there
are
kind
of
areas
of
concern,
they
will
respond
and
I
know
that
they've
tried
to
attend
some
of
those
partnership
meetings,
but
clearly
that's
not
not
the
whole
of
the
city,
and
so
what
I'll
do
is
I'll
I'll.
Take
that
away
and
I'll
get
the
numbers
of
supermarkets
that
are
being
worked
with
an
indication
of
those
that
aren't,
which
I'm
sure
will
be
many
in
the
in
the
reality.
But
I'll
share
that
and
bring
that
back.
A
For
bringing
councilor
lay
in
any
concerns
that
we
have
as
a
scrutiny
board
or
as
counselors
in
general,
how
do
we
get
our
concerns
escalated
up?
Is
it
do
you?
Do
we
all
contact
councilor
Harland,
and
then
she
can
write
on
behalf
of
the
council
or
is
there
anything
that
councilor,
Harland
and
I
can
do
together
to
write
to
anybody
raising
concerns?
How
do
we
raise
the
concerns
that
are
being
expressed
today
that
are
not
within
the
council's
control?
What's
the
mechanism
for
us
as
a
local
authority,
to
bring
concerns
up
Sue.
E
I
would
I've,
we
would
probably
need
to
go
through
our
new
normal
lobbying
groups
or
routes.
We
could
certainly
write
to
the
gambling
commission,
especially
things
around
scratch
cards.
If
you
have
a
specific
concern
around
scratch
cards,
we
could
write
as
a
council
to
the
gambling
commission.
We've
got
contact
details
and
so
on.
A
What
I
want
to
do
is
give
confidence
to
members
that
they
can
talk
about.
You
know
gambling
in
general
and
we
will
try
and
find
a
mechanism
of
raising
their
concerns
because
we've
got
another
Focus
discussion
today,
quite
correctly,
but
I
don't
want
to
hold
back
any
debates
or
any
concerns
that
elected
members
have
and
then
what
I'm
saying
is
it's
effective
up
to
council,
Harland
and
I
to
get
together
and
work
and
to
come
up
with
a
way
forward?
G
Thank
you
chair
a
couple
of
comments
really
and
then
a
question
really
to
our
subject.
Matter:
expert
in
Matt,
I.
Think
for
me
a
couple
of
things
that
concerned
me:
I,
think
betting
shops
will
go
the
way
of
banks
as
more
and
more
betting
goes
online
and
goes
behind
closed
doors
and
I
think
as
a
a
nation,
not
just
as
a
council,
but
we
need
to
start
to
consider
how
we're
going
to
regulate
online
betting.
G
The
other
thing
that
has
concerned
me
for
a
number
of
years
is
that
tobacco
was
taken
out
of
sport.
Tobacco
sponsoring
was
taken
out
of
sport
and
it's
been
replaced
by
something
that's
equally
as
harmful
as
in
sports
betting.
So
you
cannot
watch
any
sport
without
seeing
shirts
or
football
teams
or
hoardings
or
adverts
in
between
any
games
or
even
programs
being
sponsored
by
Sky
bet
or
or
any
of
the
others.
G
I
think
we
need
to
do
more
as
a
country
in
containing
the
the
the
the
growth
of
gambling
and
I
think
any
the
liberalization
of
gambling
in
2006
has
been
harmful
to
this
country.
I
would
suggest
and
has
Matt
gone.
No
he's
not
he's
still
on
the
screen.
Oh
it
just
moved
on
my
screen
he's
gone
to
the
top
Matt
I
just
wondered
from
my
benefit:
I'm,
not
I'm,
not
an
expert
on
gambling
or
anything
an
addiction,
but
as
a
our
expert
on
addiction.
M
Thank
you
well,
as
has
been
expressed.
Much
of
this
is
National
policy
locally.
The
things
that
can
be
done.
Obviously
Sue
is
the
licensing
expert
and
and
she'll
speak
to
that
it
is.
You
know,
more
than
a
little
depressing,
to
hear
how
little
one
can
do
to
reject
these
applications.
I
have
to
say
these
premises
tend
to
be
in
a
more
deprived
communities.
M
M
I'm,
not
sure
where
we
we're
sitting
on
that
in
Leeds,
but
we
have
powers
to
prohibit
gambling
advertising
in
our
local
spaces
and
I
would
certainly
promote
that
idea
as
if
they,
as
you
say,
it's
the
normalization
and
it's
the
ubiquitous
nature
of
this
promotion
and
stimulating
a
market
is
deeply
harmful.
So
I
think
there
are
things
that
we
can
do
locally
in
terms
of
the
online
gambling
you're.
Quite
right,
gambling
is
transforming
it's
moving
away
from
traditional
venues
more
and
more
online.
The
laws
are
way
behind
the
laws
with
land-based
gambling.
M
Although
you
may
be
aware
that
there
is
a
government
paper
due
for
publication
in
the
coming
weeks,
we
think
February
is
the
most
likely
publication
for
that
and
it
will
probably
largely
focus
on
online
gambling.
So
we're
waiting,
obviously
to
see
the
outcome
of
that.
My
understanding
is
that
the
government
are
less
persuaded
by
significant
advertising
restrictions,
perhaps
seeing
some
of
that
with
the
Obesity
agenda
and
other
health
and
the
health
behaviors,
and
so
we're
waiting
to
see
that
but
you're.
J
M
Right
I
think
I.
Think
one
of
the
things
that
that
has
been
is
going
to
happen
is
the
certainly
the
Premier
League
are
boating
on
a
voluntary
basis
to
prohibit
gambling
sponsorship
across
shirts.
Now,
of
course,
that
only
takes
us
so
far,
because
if
you
are
a
follower
of
support,
you'll
see
the
advertising
around
the
perimeter
of
sports
stadiums
and
and
elsewhere,
which
is
very
problematic,
but
at
least
it
sets
a
precedence,
and
that
would
be
potentially
a
start,
but
obviously
it
would
be
better
if
the
government
legislated.
G
Okay,
thank
you
sue,
so
would
that
be
possible
then,
to
follow
what
Bristol's
done
so
around
the
corner
from
me?
There's
a
large
digital
signage
on
Bradford
Road,
for
example:
I,
don't
know
if
advertisers
sport
gambling
to
be
honest,
but
do
we
have
it
within
our
powers
to
stop
gambling
adverts
on
privately
owned
private
land
Etc?
So
this
digital
sign,
which
sits
on
actually
it
probably
sits
on
the
highway?
E
K
K
We're
looking
to
make
use
of
those
and
I
know
that
many
gambling
companies
during
the
World
Cup,
that
was
you
know
they
obviously
have
a
huge
budget
for
for
advertising,
especially
around
Sports,
tournaments
and
and
those
screens
were
full
of
those
advertising.
So
it
would
be
really
interesting
to
see
what
more
could
be
done.
G
B
K
K
So
someone
close
to
the
person
who
gambles
who
might
also
be
experiencing
some
level
of
harm
and
I,
think
it's
really
important
to
get
that
rolled
out
across
organizations
in
in
Leeds
and
so
I
think
that
will
be
one
practical
action
we
can.
You
know,
take
away
and
and
try
to
widen,
that
piece
of
work,
yeah.
A
On
that
point,
well,
I
think
building
a
main
question
being
said
today,
but
like
Becky
me
and
maybe
counselor
Harland
and
any
other
officer
that
needs
to
to
come
together
and
think.
How
can
we
because
scrutiny
have
raised
some
very
important
issues
today
now?
Is
it
up
to
exec
board
to
to
say
something
to
task
our
economic
Services
Unit
to
go
and
do
something?
Is
it
up
to
us
to
say
to
cancer
trustful's
scrutiny
board?
A
You
need
to
look
into
this
so
that
we
can
decide
the
best
route
to
do
it
rather
than
a
scattergun
approach.
There
is
one
that
we
can
agree
or,
or
is
it
down
to
the
licensing
chair
to
to
take
off
to
take
this
forward?
I,
don't
know
at
this
stage,
but
I'm
I
am
concerned
that
members
are
making
very,
very
valid
points
and
I
certainly
don't
know
the
correct
route
that
we
should
be
following.
So
we
can't
make
decisions
as
a
board
today
anyway.
A
So
if
we
can
get
Becky
before
we
next
meet
to
try
and
come
up
with
something
that
we
can
approve
at
our
next
public
meeting
and
to
take
it
forward
and
trust
us
I
know,
trust
me
I'm
a
politician,
that's
something
that
a
lot
of
people
have
difficulty
with,
but
I
think
it's
the
best
way
of
moving
this
one
forward.
So
councilor
Thompson.
Do
you
want
to
come
back
in
again
on
what
you've
heard
or
add
anything.
B
M
Yeah
I
think
I'd
I'd
just
say
that
the
the
industry
operators
these
days
it's
most
of
them-
have
now
Consolidated
and
merged
into
very
huge
International
Global
operators
with
enormous
power
and,
of
course,
the
private
businesses
whose
goal
is
to
keep
the
shareholders
happy
and
make
as
much
money
as
possible.
So
when
we're
considering
engaging
with
the
industry,
I
would
just
I
would
just
have
a
you
know,
a
small
stream
full
of
caution
to
that.
M
In
terms
of
you
know,
the
industry
tend
to
get
a
lot
of
public
relations
from
attempts
to
engage
with
them
in
in
areas
that
we
might
wish
to
do
so
without
taking
the
necessary
action
that
we'd
like
to
see.
The
best
action
we
can
take
is
why
we
have
got
powers
to
take
preventative
action
and
curtail
the
availability
normalization
and
look
at
the
advertising.
As
we've
just
discussed,
look
at
more
consistent,
Public,
Health
messaging
across
the
city.
M
C
Hi,
when
I
read
the
report
this
morning,
the
thing
that
worried
me
most
in
the
document
was
the
paragraph
about
youth
gambling
24
of
secondary
pupils
reported
they
had
gambled
within
the
last
12
months.
Skin
betting
was
highlighted
at
the
most
popular
type
of
gambling
in
this
age
group
11
to
16.
that
that
was.
That
was
a
a
thing
that
I
would
be
interesting
to
find
out.
C
K
Think
it's
something
that's
unique
to
Leeds
as
well,
and-
and
it
is
it
is
it's
shocking
and,
and
we
have
a
so,
we
have
a
specific
work
program
that
focuses
on
on
children,
that
our
colleague,
Emma,
leads
and
and
that
focuses
on
Communications
and
training.
And
so
one
example
of
some
of
the
training
work.
K
It's
something
that
we're
doing
with
the
Yorkshire
and
Humber
and
sort
of
regional
Public
Health
leads
network
with
a
focus
on
gambling
and
and
so
it's
quite
an
exciting
piece
of
work
that
we're
we're
launching
in
Leeds
in
a
Bradford,
Council
they're
also
going
to
be
launching,
and
but
there
are
also
you
know
many
other
areas
of
work.
So
within
our
Communications
campaign,
for
example,
the
beat
the
odds
campaign.
We
have
a
children's
focused,
section
kind
of
always
within
that
and
actually
last
year,
I
think
it
was
during.
We
ran
it.
K
But
the
regulation
around
gaming
is
is
definitely
a
bit
of
a
challenge.
I
don't
think
skin
bettering
is
actually
is
illegal
in
this
country,
whereas
it
is
in
the
Netherlands,
and
it
is
an
early
introduction
to
to
gambling.
You
know
a
very
young
age
for
children
and
is
becoming
normalized
as
part
of
gaming
and
I.
K
Think,
though
sorry
there
was
probably
there
was
another
question,
but
I
know
there
was
a
question
about
the
ward
level
data
as
well,
so
I
think
that's
probably
one
for
for
Matt
on
the
Northern
gambling
service
side.
But
it's
something
I
could
take
away
for
the
Leeds
Community
gambling
service
to
see
if
they
could
provide
that.
A
A
You
know
how
would
I
recognize
and
I'm
not
asking
Nestle
to
have
a
seminar
on
it
today,
but
should
we
run
a
seminar
to
try
and
help
elected
members
identify
potential
people
in
our
communities?
That
might
be
hovering
these
these
issues?
And
what
more
can
we
do?
So
how
do
we
address
the
hidden
issues?
Because
in
my
world
you
might
find
that
it's
not
explicit,
but
behind
the
the
doors
you
don't
know
what
people
are
doing,
because
it's
councilor.
A
E
I,
don't
want
to
step
on
Matt's
toes
at
all
here.
I,
don't
think
anybody
expects
you
to
cancer
Anderson.
We
work
with
a
number
of
organizations
like
citizens,
advice
and
debt
agencies
and
they
struggle
to
identify
people
that
are
it's
a
very
secretive,
hidden
issue
for
many
people
because
of
the
stigma
and
the
shame
that
they
feel
around
being
addicted
to
gambling.
So
no
nobody's
expecting
you
to
identify
it.
When
you're
speaking
to
some
dnu
surgeries,
we
we
do
have.
We
talked
a
little
bit
about
the
community
gambling
service.
E
They
do
have
some
posters
that
you
could
put
up
in
your
surgeries
which
provide
a
QR
code
that
people
can
self-refer
into
for
that
initial.
Brief
assistance
like
on
on
quite
a
low
level
and
then
obviously
Matt
will
Matt's
got
his
hands
upside
or
hand
over
to
Matt,
but
we
can
certainly
provide
some
material
for
you
to
keep
in
your
surgery,
but
no
nobody's
expecting
you
to
identify
somebody.
That's.
A
Fine,
that's
fine!
Now,
before
bringing
Matt
in
just
to
give
Nicola
and
councilor
Harland
do
notice
what
I'm
gonna
I'm
gonna
come
to
you.
If
you
want
to
say
anything
final
in
terms
of
summing
up
so
to
give
you
so
I,
don't
want
to
just
drop
you
in
it
and
say
you
know
in
two
seconds
time,
you've
got
to
say
something
so
I'm
going
to
be
coming
to
both
of
you
to
ask.
A
M
M
Our
service
users
are
able,
over
many
many
years
to
keep
their
very
significant
gambling
problems
from
their
loved
ones
and
from
their
closest
loved
ones,
and
it
can
be
a
shock
to
the
family
system
when
that
is
discovered,
and
it
can
also
be
a
risk
and
it's
a
suicide
risk
as
well,
but
those
that
hold
the
data
of
the
industry.
Of
course,
they
track
every
transaction
and
they
can
see
what's
happening.
M
Unfortunately,
they're
not
taking
the
action
that
we'd
like
to
see
and
they
take
action
when
somebody
wins
so
they're
much
more
likely
to
make
a
difficult
for
you
to
withdraw
your
winnings
or
to
even
close
or
restrict
your
account,
but
if
you're
a
losing
customer
you're
much
more
likely
to
receive
nudges
notifications,
rewards
advertising
and
so
on.
So
we've
got
a
very
a
very
concerning
model
business
model
for
the
industry
that
needs
to
be
tackled,
so
the
hidden
nature
of
it
is
very,
very
difficult.
M
We
have
to
commit
it
from
the
advertising,
restrict
the
availability
and
the
access
the
acceptability.
You
were
talking
about
young
people
when
I
was
growing
up.
It
wasn't
really
on
the
radar
of
me
as
a
teenager
when
I
became
18.
My
peer
group
wasn't
interested
then
thinking
right
now,
I
can
go
to
the
bookmakers,
but
I
can
tell
you
now
when
children
are
getting
to
the
age
of
18,
that's
the
one
thing
that
they
tend
to
want
to
do
as
a
milestone
in
life.
M
A
L
No
chair
so
more
or
less
somebody
told
from
our
side
and
Licensing,
and
she
explained
we're
just
a
bricks,
the
bricks
and
mortar
of
the
premises,
but
over
recent
years
we
do
get
very
engaged
with
local
communities
and
representatives
when
we
do
receive
applications
to
try
and
make
a
difference
as
explained
it's
permissive
they're
generally.
Granted
they
do
it.
They
do
generally
receive
representations
than
Duke
and
before
licensing
subcommittee,
but
our
hands
are
tied
with
it
being
such
a
permissive
regime.
L
So
to
refuse
an
application
is
a
very
prolonged
process
and
whether
we'll
be
successful
at
the
end
of
it
or
that's
a
different
matter.
So
we
try
and
work
with
applicants
to
make
the
best
of
what
we
can
I.
Suppose
it.
You
know,
as
as
we've
maybe
had
future
discussions
and
decide
where
we
want
to
go
with
things.
We
do
have
contacts
at
the
gambling
commission,
so
it
might
be
wise
to
put
it
back
on
them
and
say:
look
we've
considered
your
questions.
L
I
Well,
excuse
me
I'm
losing
my
voice
to
them.
This
is
a
subject.
That's
concerned
me
since
my
licensing
days
when
I
chaired
the
licensing
committed
and
I
remember
as
lobbying
against
the
fixed
odds,
betting
terminals,
and
so
it
was
right,
you
know
and
Nicola
and
everybody
would
we're
very
limited
in
what
as
a
licensing
Authority
we
can
do.
However,
we
can
Lobby
and
I
think
we
should
Lobby
I.
Might
you
go
Barry
where
it
sits?
You
know
who
whose
responsibility,
but.
J
I
I
As
Matt
just
said.
You
know,
you
know
when
somebody's
had
a
drink
or
the
hiding
drink
or
those
physical
signs
that
you
can
see.
This
is
a
little
bit
more
Insidious,
I,
think
and
and
secretive
it's
a
shocking
thing
and
our
personal
experience
of
it
and
my
friends,
some
from
being
very
young,
was,
and
it's
not
about
winning
the
money.
It's
the
gambling.
That's
the
addiction,
it's
not
it's,
not
the
wings,
it's
the
buzz
of
the
gamble.
I
They
don't
see
any
other
Avenue,
but
thankfully
leads
is
on
the
far
from
and
we
do
have
people
like
you
know,
Grace
and
and
Matt,
and
the
working
Partnerships
that
we've
got
so
we're
lucky
that
when
we
are
on
a
bit
of
a
front
foot
of
the
recognizing
that
the
recognition
of
it
and
but
happy
is
there
anything
that
we
can.
But
if
it's
one
of
us
all
of
us
whatever
but
happy
to
be
involved,
yeah.
A
Thank
you.
It
has
been
unfortunate
that
murder
isn't
here
today,
I
mean
I.
I
have
benefited
from
getting
a
briefing
from
her
in
advance
and
I
know.
Your
knowledge
and
enthusiasm
came
across
when
she
was
briefing
me
and
it's
a
Pity
she's
not
being
here
today.
But
that's
you
know
that
circumstances
so
Becky.
A
N
I
I
listened
to
this
particular
debate
with
a
great
interest,
but
one
thing
which
I
feel
which
was
missing,
especially
when
we
talked
about
the
teenagers
and
and
the
trend.
Where
is
becoming
a
new
culture?
What
work
have
we
done
with
within
the
schools
at
the
early
early
days
of
their
life,
to
prevent
them
going
for
gambling,
because
the
effects,
and
not
knock-on
effects
not
only
on
them
but
also
on
their
families
and
their
within
their
own
Society?
A
K
Yeah,
absolutely
thanks
cancer
and
and
yeah.
So
it's
it's
a
brilliant
question.
As
I
mentioned,
the
My
Health,
my
school
survey
is
how
we
kind
of
Monitor
and
build
an
Evidence
base
for
for
that,
and
what
we've
done
is
focused
on
secondary
schools,
because
that's
where
there
was
most
prevalence
of
of
gambling
and
but
I
think
there
are
two
age
groups.
If
I
remember,
rightly
it's
years,
five
and
six,
who
also
have
the
My
Health
my
school
survey,
but
there
was
much
less
prevalence.
K
But
having
said
that,
we
have
organized
a
number
of
training
sessions
that
have
been
offered
to
School
staff,
also
including
primary
schools,
but
also
with
children's
social
Care
staff,
who
are
out
on
the
front
line
with
young
people
and
that
are
obviously
you
know,
may
may
have
the
opportunity
to
observe
and
where
a
Young,
Person's,
gambling
or
gaming
might
be
coming
in
issue.
So
that
tends
to
be
our
area
of
focus
and
and
also
through
the
communications
campaigns.
N
A
H
Think
chair
the
in
the
first
instance,
it
would
be
helpful
to
work
with
particularly
the
the
least
Council
officers
who
are
online
today
to
put
together
some
sort
of
statement.
You
can
formalize
to
a
constituted
meeting
so
that
that's
that's
a
matter
of
public
record
and
we'll
see
if
we
can
set
out
some
next
steps
in
that
that
can
be
formally
endorsed
by
the
board.
Yeah.
A
I
do
think.
If
someone
was
to
watch
this
our
message
meeting,
they
would
be
able
to
get
a
lot
out
of
it
and
see
the
care
that
the
counselors
in
lead
city
council
feel
about
gambling
and
trying
to
do
something
about
it.
So
it's
just
a
way
of
trying
to
get
the
message
out
there,
because
I'm
not
pretending
that
we've
got
a
lot
of
people
and
on
this
cold.
Just
now.
So
with
that
said,
can
I
thank
Matt
as
an
external
guest
for
coming
along.
A
The
other
officers
are
present
is
part
of
their
job,
so
they
they
have
to
attend
and
be
grilled
by
members,
but
can
I
also
thank
all
the
members
for
taking
the
time
to
come
here
today
and
also
councilor
Marshall
katong,
who
chairs
the
Health
scrutiny
board,
and
hopefully,
she's
picked
up
some
things
that
she
can
take
back
to
our
board.
So
they
can
decide
whether
or
not
they
want
to
look
further
into
any
of
the
issues
that
have
been
raised.