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A
Okay,
good
morning,
everybody
and
welcome
to
today's
meeting
of
the
children
family
scrutiny
board.
My
name
is
counselor
alan
lam.
I
represent
the
weatherby
ward
and
I'm
the
chair
of
this
board.
The
meeting
is
being
webcast
on
the
council's
website
so
that
any
interesting
members
of
the
public
that
are
unable
to
observe
in
person
can
still
watch
remotely.
A
So,
as
is
customary
I'll,
ask
all
the
board
members
to
introduce
themselves
first
and
if
I
can
remind
people
to
put
their
microphone
on
when
they
speak
and
turn
it
off.
We'll
just
do
the
board
members
and
I'll
ask
our
guests
to
introduce
themselves
once
we
go
into
the
substantive
items,
so
I'm
going
to
go
down
the
left
first,
starting
with
counciling
with.
F
Good
morning
everybody,
angela
brogdon
principal
scrutiny,
advisor.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
everybody
and
welcome
to
what
we
all
know
is
the
best
scrutiny
board
in
the
city.
If
not
the
country,
it's
an
established
fact
so,
and
also
if
I
can
begin
just
by
congratulating
those
members
who
were
successfully
re-elected
last
week,
which
forgive
me
if
I,
if
I've
forgotten
about
the
council
of
hussein,
councillor
renshaw
and
council
of
pryor's,
not
with
us
yet,
and
hopefully
I
haven't,
missed
anybody
else,.
A
How
could
I
possibly
forget
cancer
bitter,
but
congratulations
to
all
of
you
and
well.
I
may
not
have
liked
all
the
results.
It's
still
good
to
have
you
back
on
the
board
and
it
is
our
last
meeting
of
the
year.
So
we'll
wait
and
see
who's
who's
here
next
year.
It's
always
the
joy
at
this
stage.
It
could
be
my
last
meeting.
A
It
might
not
who
who
knows
how
things
are
going
to
work
out,
but
it's
been
a
good
year
and
we've
got
one
final
meeting
so
and
I
think
we
might
have
a
little
bit
of
good
news
somewhere
along
the
line
as
well.
It's
always
nice
at
scrutiny,
so
we'll
get
into
the
agenda
and
if
I
can
ask
angela
please
to
take
us
through
the
first
five
items.
F
F
A
supplementary
agenda
pack
was
published
and
circulated
above
members
on
monday,
the
9th
of
may
this
included
appendix
1
to
the
report
for
agenda
item
7
officer,
inspection
report
and
a
gender
appendix
1
to
the
report
for
gender
item
8.
The
notification
of
series
child
safeguarding
instance
review
update
under
item
4.
Can
I
please
ask
members
to
make
any
declarations
of
interest
at
this
point,
and
I
shall
take
silences?
A
Okay,
thank
you
for
that
angela.
So
we
move
on
to
item
six,
which
is
the
minutes
of
the
meeting
from
the
30th
of
march.
So
can
I
just
ask
those
that
were
present
to
approve
them
as
a
correct
record
or
let
us
know
if
there's
any
inaccuracies,
everybody
happy,
okay,
jolly
good
and
then
are
there
any
matters
arising
from
those
minutes
that
we're
not
covering
elsewhere
on
the
agenda.
A
Nope,
I
don't
believe
there
are
so
we
move
on
to
the
the
meat
of
the
agenda,
which
is
item,
seven,
the
ofsted
inspection
report.
So
the
purpose
of
this
agenda
item
is
to
provide
the
opportunity
for
the
scrutiny
board
to
consider
and
discuss
the
findings
of
the
recent
ofsted
inspection
of
children's
services
in
leeds
a
full
inspection
report
was
formally
published
by
ofsted
on
the
9th
of
may.
So
just
a
couple
of
days
ago.
This
has
been
circulated
to
board
members
as
part
of
a
supplementary
agenda
pack
in
readiness
for
today's
meeting.
A
So
if
I
could
ask
our
guests
to
introduce
themselves
first,
perhaps
if
I
start
with
councillor
prior
and
that
you
missed
out
or
just
congratulations
to
you
on
your
re-election
council
prayer.
A
Okay,
thank
you
and
you're
all
especially
welcome
today.
I
think
so.
It
says
on
my
introduction
here
that
councillor
venna
and
councillor
prior
may
wish
to
make
some
initial
comments
before
we
invite
julie.
So
I
don't
know
if
you
just
want
to
gloss
over
it.
Councillor
bennett,
but
I
won't
steal
your
thunder.
Thank
you
over.
M
M
You
so
much
thank
you
for
letting
me
make
some
comments.
I'd
have
been
really
sad
if
they
hadn't
had
the
opportunity,
as
I'm
sure
you
all
appreciate
it,
gives
me
an
immense
pleasure
to
be
able
to
introduce
the
report
to
the
scrutiny
board.
As
you
will
all
have
read,
we
have
maintained
our
outstanding
judgment.
We
have
received
outstanding
for
support
looked
after
children
and
care
leavers
for
the
impact
of
management
and
leadership.
We've
achieved
good
for
children
in
need
of
health
and
protection
outstanding
for
overall
effectiveness
and
so
outstanding
as
an
overall
judgment.
M
This
is
an
incredible
achievement
coming
out
of
the
global
pandemic,
with
unprecedented
demand
on
children's
social
work.
M
We
remain
the
only
core
city
to
hold
an
outstanding
rating
and
in
the
feedback
meeting
ofsted
verbally
found
back
to
us
that
we
should
be
very
proud,
as
it
is
difficult
to
maintain
outstanding
and
especially
in
the
current
context,
when
you
are
an
outstanding
authority,
as
we
were
from
2018,
you
usually
only
get
a
brief
inspection,
however,
because
of
the
concerns
that
were
identified
in
the
focused
visit
to
the
front
door
in
july
21,
which
were
discussed
at
this
board,
we
actually
received
a
full
ilacs
inspection
of
three
weeks
and
again
in
the
verbal
feedback.
M
M
Ofsted
did
not
find
any
concerns
with
the
safeguarding
of
children
and
leads,
after
their
very
thorough
inspection.
In
fact,
what
they
described
was
outstanding
restorative
practice,
which
is
thoroughly
and
authentically
embedded
positive,
collaborative
partnership
working
on
the
ground
with
our
partners,
including
health
and
education,
and
a
department
with
a
genuine
commitment
to
reflection
and
development.
M
M
It
is
also
noteworthy
that
whenever
the
report
highlights
an
area
in
need
of
improvement,
it
also
immediately
notes
that
we
are
on
it.
For
example,
we
know
case
loads
are
higher
than
we
would
want,
and
we
have
implemented
a
detailed
recruitment
and
retention
plan
and,
of
course,
this
fantastic
report
will
help
us
attract
staff
and
will
be
part
of
our
recruitment
strategy.
Now
that
it
is
published,
what
we
are
not
in
leads
ever
is
complacent.
M
There
are
always
areas
for
improvement
and
even
an
outstanding
judgment
report
outlines
areas
to
work
on
the
recovery
board,
which
I
chair
will
develop
an
improvement
plan
based
on
the
current
inspection
scrutiny.
Yourselves
are
positively
referred
to
in
the
report
for
your
robustness,
and
we
will
look
forward
to
working
with
you
on
implementing
our
improvement
plan.
M
The
reasons
for
this
include
that
there
was
a
period
when
the
timeliness
of
child
protection
conferences
was
not
good
enough
because
we
did
not
have
enough
child
protection
chairs
or
admin
support.
The
recovery
board,
which
is
a
cross-covery
board,
rapidly
addressed
this,
including
through
extensive
admin,
recruitment,
and
the
report
refers
to
this
now
being
resolved,
and
the
judgment
in
this
area
is
good.
M
M
M
I
hope
this
board
takes
heart
from
knowing
that
children
in
this
city
in
need
of
support
are
receiving
such
skilled
and
compassionate
care.
This
report
is
a
testament
testimony
to
our
truly
outstanding
staff,
who
have
given
their
hearts
and
souls
to
the
children
of
this
city
during
a
time
of
global
crisis.
M
I
hope
everyone
who
contributes
to
the
following
discussion
will
take
time
to
thank
our
staff,
who
have
delivered
this
outstanding
judgment
in
the
face
of
huge
challenges
in
a
demanding
climate.
Finally,
I
would
simply
like
to
say
thank
the
most
heartfelt,
thank
you
and
huge
congratulations
on
this
report
to
everyone
involved
with
children's
services
in
leeds.
Thank
you,
chair.
A
Thank
you,
councillor,
vena
and
well,
if
I
can
be
the
first
on
behalf
of
this
boat,
to
congratulate
all
of
you
to
thank
all
of
you
for
your
work
and
particularly
to
thank
all
of
the
staff
working
on
the
ground
to
deliver
for
children
and
families
across
the
city
and
be
remiss
of
me
as
chair
of
this
board,
not
to
note
that
ofsted
found
scrutiny
to
robust
and
challenging,
which
is
exactly
our
job
and
while
we're
not
responsible
for
for
the
work
or
the
reports
that
that's
down
to
you
and
the
teams
on
the
ground.
A
But
I
think
we
should
still
be
proud
of
the
role
that
we've
played
over
the
last
few
years
in
in
achieving
this.
So
thank
you
councilman,
council
prior
did,
you
want
to
say
anything.
K
Thank
you.
Yes,
I
I
shouldn't
speak
for
too
long,
obviously,
that
the
vast
majority
of
the
report
sits
under
councillor
bennett's
portfolio,
but
particularly
and
for
me
I
was
really
delighted
to
read
when
it's
talking
about
how
leaders
are
tenacious
in
identifying
children
who
are
missing
education.
I
know
that's
been
something
which
this
board
has
looked
at,
particularly
in
a
number
of
schools,
so
I
think
it's
fantastic
to
see
that
recognized
and
also
it
was
great
to
see
to
also
to
see
praise
for
the
virtual
school.
K
K
I
just
if
you'll
allow
me
to
just
to
make
a
few
brief
comments,
perhaps
more
of
my
capacity
in
a
leadership
role
in
the
council
rather
than
my
portfolio,
just
how
proud
we
are
both
of
councillor
banner
and
sal
council
avenue,
who
has
a
an
eye
to
detail
and
a
thoroughness
which
I
think
most
of
us
are,
are
envious
of
and
and
the
expertise
of
cell
and
actually
a
calm
authority,
which
I
think
has
seen
children
services
through
perhaps
the
most
difficult
two
years
in
a
generation
and
actually
then
to
the
entire
staff
within
children's
as
leadership
of
the
council.
K
We
are
so
proud
of
everything
they
do.
I
think
it
is
worth
noting
as
well.
The
ofsted
report
does
note
the
the
financial
situation
of
the
council
and
actually
how
choices
made
by
this
council
have
prioritized
children
and
put
children
at
the
heart
of
everything
we
do
when
we
look
at
things
like,
for
example,
where
we
haven't
closed
a
single
children's
center
compared
to,
I
think
it's
about
1400
that
have
closed
across
the
city.
We
see
the
impact
of
that.
We
see
the
impact
where
it
prior
to
the
pandemic.
K
It
was
only
leads
in
amsterdam
in
the
whole
of
europe
that
tackled
childhood
obesity.
We
see
the
results
of
that
and
we
see
the
results
of
supporting
an
education
improvement
team
when
that's
not
a
statutory
service,
and
I
know
from
feedback
from
councils
and
actually
schools
and
teachers
from
across
the
country.
The
difference
that
that
made
over
the
past
two
years
in
particular
and,
of
course,
as
scrutiny,
I
do
think
having
the
guarantee
of
having
an
opposition
counsellor
sharing
scrutiny.
K
L
Thanks,
council
alum,
I
think
the
majority
of
what
I
want
to
say
relates
really
to
our
frontline
staff,
both
from
children's
services
right
across
the
council,
but
also
our
partners,
who
we
work
really
close
closely
with
on
the
ground
every
day
and
that
strength
of
partnership
of
those
front-line
staff
ensures
that
children's
needs
are
met
early
in
the
life
of
the
problems
that
they
encounter.
L
We
have
had
a
significant
investment
in
an
approach
in
leeds
which
is
about
early
help
and
prevention,
and
our
partners
totally
buy
into
that
approach
and
invest
alongside
us,
which
means
that
you
have
a
cohesive
system
that
responds
to
children
and
families
needs
as
they
arise
in
children's
services.
In
terms
of
the
staffing
you
know,
we
have
had
people
within
the
service
who
died
during
the
pandemic
we've
suffered,
you
know,
we've
suffered
loss
in
terms
of
some
of
our
colleagues.
L
Certainly
many
of
our
staff
have
experienced
bereavement
and
loss
and
difficulties
within
their
own
personal
lives
and
with
all
of
the
challenges
around
lock
down
with
all
of
the
challenges
around
dealing
with
the
pandemic
and
the
commitment
of
staff
and
the
dedication
to
continue
to
provide
the
best
quality
services
that
we
can,
I
think,
is
outstanding.
L
An
outstanding
judgment
doesn't
mean
perfection.
I've
never
been
of
that
view,
I'm
always
of
the
view
that
actually
things
don't
always
go
the
way
that
we
would
want
them
to
even
in
outstanding
authorities.
L
It's
not
a
perfect
system,
but
it
is
a
system
that
we
have
all
collaboratively
work
to
build
up
to
ensure
that
where
children
need
serious,
safeguarding
action,
that
is
taken
and
but
we
try
to
work
on
the
basis
of
prevention,
we
try
and
work
on
the
best
of
building
a
system
that
says
the
earlier
that
you
engage
and
interact
with
families
the
easier
it
is
to
overcome
those
difficulties
and
prevent
those
their
needs
from
from
escalating.
L
So
I
you
know,
I
I
think
one
of
the
things
for
me
about
this
is
that
this
is
a
long-term
strategy
that
scrutiny
board
and
yourself
council
and
particularly,
have
been
part
of
challenging
and
pushing
us
further.
But
it
is
a
long-term
and
established
approach
and
that
I
think,
is
nationally
recognized
now
as
a
as
a
way
to
run
effective,
the
most
effective
children's
services
that
you
can.
L
L
I
won't
add
too
much
to
some
of
the
points
that
council
have
made,
but
I
I
would
say
that
the
inspection
team
were
very
thorough.
They
did.
You
know
the
lead
inspector
said
to
me
that
that
she
was
clear
that
this
was
a
an
extensive,
deep
dive
into
the
quality
of
practice
within
within
the
city.
They
brought
additional
inspectors
to
the
inspection
because
of
the
size
and
scale
of
children's
services.
L
There
was
a
specific
education
hmi
and
you
know
just
want
to
come
in
staff
in
the
learning
part
of
the
part
of
our
organization,
because
he
was
blown
away
with
the
work
that
was
being
undertaken
and
the
you
know
as
councillor
prior
said
there.
You
know
the
report
is
concentrated
on
the
social
care
aspects,
but
there
is
a
specific
learning
aspect
to
it
and
that
doesn't
always
come
through
in
the
level
of
detail
that
you
would
want
in
the
report.
L
But
I
just
want
to
put
on
record
my
thanks
and
admiration
to
them
and
our
partners
in
schools.
They
did
speak
to
schools
and
school
leaders
who
spoke
positively
about
the
relationships
that
we've
got
between
the
council
and
schools,
and
that's
not
always
been
the
case,
but
I
think,
through
the
pandemic,
we
came
together
with
a
common
cause
to
support
the
most
vulnerable
children
in
the
city
and
again,
I
think
that
that
that
is
reflected
reflected
here
and
also
the
work
with
our
partners
in
the
third
sector.
L
We're
very
proud
of
the
relationships
that
we
have
with
the
third
sector
in
the
city
and
the
you
know
their
ability
at
times
to
engage
with
some
of
the
children
and
families
that
perhaps
statutory
services
find
more
difficult
to
engage
with,
and
so
they
give
us
that
greater
reach
in
terms
of
in
terms
of
prevention,
so
yeah,
you
know
really
pleased
with
all
of
that
and
absolute
admiration
for
our
for
our
frontline
staff,
because
that
you
know
they're
the
ones
who
whose
practice
came
under
under
the
spotlight.
L
There
are
two
recommendations
that
stem
from
the
report,
and
you
know
often
will
always
you
know,
as
we
would
want
leave
you
with
recommendations
about
where
you
need
to
go
next
and
how
we
can
continue
to
learn
and
improve
our
services,
and
I
can
say
that,
in
relation
to
the
specifics,
we
were
already
working
on
on
on
those
two
recommendations
and
will
bring
back
obviously
our
action
plan
and
how
we
are
progressing
with
that
improvement.
A
Okay,
thank
you
very
much.
Sal
did
any
of
the
other
guests
want
to
add
anything
before
we
go
into
questions
and
comments.
No
okay,
right,
well,
questions
and
comments
castle.
Linux.
F
Thank
you,
and
just
again,
you'll
have
congratulations
from
probably
all
members
and
lots
of
people,
but
it's
just
an
outstanding
outstanding
result,
for
everybody
is
incredible
and
just
well
done
to
to
everybody
all
to
all
the
teams,
all
the
partners,
all
of
the
staff,
and
so
people
may
not
have
had
a
chance
to
read
and
digest
the
whole
report.
Yet,
could
you
let
us
know
what
the
areas
for
improvement
that
were
identified
if
there
were
any
and
what
the
plan
is
for
those?
F
I
know
you
mentioned
that
there
were
some
some
mentions
of
workload,
caseload
and
things
like
that,
but
there
was
an
already
a
plan
identified.
What
other
areas
have
you
taken
from
this
and
what's
the
plan.
L
Yeah,
I'm
happy
to
come
in
on
that,
so
the
recommendations,
one
is
around
contingency
planning
and
this
is
really
an
area
of
practice
where
people
want
to
feel
like
when
we've
got
a
plan
for
a
child
and
a
family
that
we
have
also
thought
about
what
we
would
do
in
circumstances
where
that
plan
isn't
working
or
doesn't
work.
L
Have
we
got
a
contingency
plan
in
those
circumstances
and
in
the
conversations
that
inspectors
had
with
frontline
staff,
they
were
absolutely
clear
that
there
was
contingency
plans
in
all
those
circumstances
that
that
they
looked
at
but
that
they
sometimes
the
contingency
plan,
wasn't
written
down
and
articulated
as
clearly
on
on
the
records
as
as
they
would
wish.
L
Now
we
used
to
have
a
situation
where
that
was
better
recorded
previously
in
an
explicit
sense,
but
in
some
of
the
work
that
we've
been
doing
directly
with
families
and
we've
had
some
feedback
from
them.
That
says
that
sometimes
that
feels
like
quite
a
difficult
thing,
because
in
some
ways
what
you
might
be
saying
is
we
have
this
plan
to
help
and
support
this
family.
L
If
that
doesn't
work,
we
would
be
taking
legal
advice
to
think
about
care
proceedings,
and
that
feels
a
bit
threatening
and
difficult
for
families,
and
so
there's
a
balance
to
be
drawn
about
how
much
that
is
articulated
and
how
well
we
do
it.
So
we've
been
working
on
that
already
about.
How
would
we
do
that,
so
that
there
is
a
clear
indication
about
what
the
contingency
plan
is
it's
written
down,
but
it's
not
working
towards
disengaging
families
from
from
the
work
that
we
need
to
do.
L
The
other
recommendation
was
around
strategy
discussions
and,
along
with
our
partners,
we've
been
working
really
hard
on
that
we've
seen
you
know.
The
report
does
mention
that
we've
seen
significant
improvements
in
those
areas.
It
was
identified
as
an
issue
at
the
front
door
visit,
but
we,
as
I
say,
we've
made
lots
of
progress
on
that.
The
engagement
of
the
three
main
agencies
in
those
strategy
discussions
has
continued
to
improve
and
increase,
and
we
are
continually
working
on
the
quality
of
strategy
discussions
that
that
take
place.
L
L
Well,
I
know
there
are
some
comments
around
a
small
minority
of
children
not
receiving
the
initial
child
protection
conference
within
the
time
scale,
but
we'd
put
some
plans
in
place
about
how
we
would
respond
in
those
circumstances.
All
of
that
was
part
of
the
self-assessment.
So
we
were
very
upfront
and
honest
with
them
about
all
of
that
and
some
of
the
strategy
discussions
that
weren't
quite
the
way
we
would
want
them.
We
picked
those
up,
so
we
invited
them
to
our
weekly
quality
assurance
meeting.
L
That
looks
back
at
all
decisions
that
are
made
around
strategy
discussions.
We
do
it
on
a
multi-agency
basis
with
our
health
partners
and
police
colleagues
and
that's
a
weekly
referral
review
and
those
small
number
of
cases
we
picked
up
as
part
of
that
quality
assurance
process,
but
because
we
were
inviting
them
to
watch
that
live
and
they
had
that
as
part
of
the
evidence
for
for
for
the
inspection
caseloads
are
higher
than
we
would
want.
L
And
again,
we
were
very
clear
about
that,
which
I
think
makes
the
outcome
more
incredible,
really
in
the
sense
that
we
know
where
we
want
those
caseloads
to
be
they're.
Not
at
that
point
at
this
moment
in
time,
and
that's
simply
because
we
haven't
got
enough
qualified
social
work
staff,
it's
not
about
the
money
not
being
there
or
the
investment
for
those
posts
not
being
there.
L
In
fact,
over
the
last
number
of
months
there
has
been
additional
investment,
provided
both
in
learning
improvement,
where
we
have
seen
a
massive
increase
in
the
request
for
education,
health
and
care
plans
and
a
huge
increase
in
referrals
through
the
front
door.
We've
put
five
additional
social
work
posts
at
the
front
door,
and
we've
identified
additional
senior
social
worker
posts
that
we
want
to
recruit
to
over
the
coming
months.
L
And
if
we
can
get
back
to
that
position
of
having
all
of
those
posts
filled,
then
the
caseloads
will
be
well
within
the
remit
of
where
we
would
want
them.
And
you
know
we're
working
really
closely
with
staff
to
support
them
through
this
quite
difficult
time
and
I'm
hoping
that
they
are
confident
that
we
will
get
there.
But
there
will
be
additional
capacity.
M
We
just
add
to
that
point:
the
issue
around
caseloads
and
social
work.
Recruitment
is
a
national
issue.
It's
not
specific
to
leads,
there's
a
shortage
in
both
children's
and
adult
social
work,
for
lots
of
reasons,
including
you
know,
people
reassessing
their
lives
over
the
last
two
years.
We've
not
had
the
students
come
through
in
adults
or
children's
that
we
normally
would
because
social
training
has
been
so
disrupted.
We
very
often
end
up
recruiting
the
social
workers
that
come
on
placement
with
us
and
we've
not
had
the
flow
through
that
we
would
normally
have.
M
So
we
are
doing
everything
we
can
to
to
recruit
more
staff
and
to
retain
the
staff
that
we've
got
and,
as
I
said
in
my
comments,
this
will
help.
You
know
people
want
to
work
in
an
outstanding
authority
when
sal
tom
councillor
lewis,
and
I
regularly
we
go
around
the
social
work
offices
and
we
really
often
hear
about
staff
who've
come
from
other
authorities
and
really
want
to
work
in
leeds,
so
this
this
will
obviously
be
part
of
our
recruitment
strategy.
A
Thank
you,
council
illinois
is
next,
please.
B
Yes,
thank
you
chair.
This
is
such
an
outstanding
document.
It's
really
quite
difficult
to
think
of
questions
to
ask
about
it,
but
in
the
past
certainly
the
transition
from
social
care
to
adult
life
has
been
one
of
the
most
difficult
transitions
to
get
right
and
one
where
greatest
pain
is
often
encountered.
So
I
wondered
if
the
members
would
like
to
comment
on
the
transition
to
adult
life
and
say
what
their
assessment
of
our
present
position
and
whether
this
further
scope
for
improvement.
N
Yeah,
I
think
that's
a
really
important
question.
It
is
an
area
that
we're
constantly
looking
at
again.
I
think
this
is
where
the
partnership
comes
into
place.
Also,
I
think
us,
knowing
our
children
well
and
knowing
those
children
who
are
most
vulnerable
and
the
children
who
do
require
that
more
focused
support
and
that
multi-agency
support
in
terms
of
transitions.
N
So
again,
it
is
about
starting
that,
as
early
as
we
can
identifying
a
thorough
assessment
of
need,
a
holistic
assessment
of
need,
which
involves
other
partners
and
putting
those
individual
transition
plans
in
place.
I
also
think
it
is
about
strategic
work,
so
we
have
a
population
health
board.
You
know
I
work
with
health
in
terms
of
that
local
needs
analysis
and
also
the
shift
you
know.
So
we
know
that
as
a
result
of
the
pandemic
needs
have
shifted.
You
know
if
we
think
about
mental
health
in
particular
of
young
people.
M
If
I
could
transition
as
a
priority
for
the
city,
because
we
know
I
mean
I,
as
you
know
john-
I
worked
in
mental
health
services
for
a
very
long
time
and
the
heart
the
whole
time.
I
worked
in
both
adults
and
children's
services.
That
transition
was
an
issue
you
know
over.
I
started
20
25
year
period,
so
transition
is
a
priority
for
future
in
mind,
which
is
the
children's
mental,
health
and
well-being
strategy
of
the
city,
and
it's
also
a
priority
for
the
all-age
mental
health
strategy.
M
So
the
staff
across
the
system,
across
the
council
and
across
the
nhs
and
the
third
sector
working
intensively
on
this,
because
we've
had
some
tragedies
in
leeds.
You
know
where
young
people
have
ended
their
own
lives
in
that
transition,
particularly
from
camps
to
adult
services,
as
well
as
within
social
care.
So
it
is
a
priority
for
the
city,
because
we
do
recognize
that
historically,
it's
been
very
problematic
and
it
continues
to.
A
C
Thank
you.
I'd
like
to
start
along
with
all
the
other
members
of
congratulating
everyone.
For
this
result
and
having
been
a
teacher,
the
stress
of
having
offset
in,
I
can
keenly
feel
so
going
through
it
and
getting
this
sort
of
judgement
really
is
something
quite
incredible
and
if
I
can
be
indulged
chair,
I'd
like
to
take
this
opportunity
just
to
add
a
special
thanks,
counselor
prior
touched
on
it
and
the
report
touches
on
it
around
children's
centers
and-
and
I
just
want
to
just
mention
for
a
moment.
C
My
experience
of
them,
because
actually
having
just
adopted
two
toddlers
and
having
children's
centers
still
open
in
leeds,
was
something
that
really
really
impacted
positively,
my
early
weeks
with
them
being
able
to
go
somewhere
where
we
had
staff
who
were
trained
and
who
knew
children
and
who
were
able.
I
I
could
go
in
and
with
absolutely
no
judgment
I
could
be
like.
I
don't
know
what
the
crack
is
with
this.
C
So
have
you
got
any
ideas
and
they
would
every
time
greet
me
with
warmth
and
love
and
compassion,
and
every
time
suggested
it's
a
lot.
It
was
a
lot
and
give
me
help
and
when
I
requested
extra
help
with
things
they'd
facilitate
getting
those
courses
put
together
and
things,
so
it
made
a
huge
difference
and
to
the
actual
children
they
still
now
miss.
It
was
vicky
and
becky
so
special
thanks
to
them.
C
They
still
when
we
drive
down
the
road
where
you
not
even
with
the
children's
center
on
it,
but
where
you
turn
off,
they
still
are
like.
When
are
we
going
back
to
vicki
and
becky's
pay
group?
The
answer
is:
we're
not
cause
it's
the
wrong
day,
but
the
impact
they've
had
on
my
girls
as
well,
so
many
musical
interludes
the
impact
they've
had
on
my
girls
is
something
really
really
really
special
as
well.
C
So
I
was
so
pleased
when
it
was
picked
up
in
the
report
that
our
children's
centers
are
something
special
and
the
fact
that
the
political
leadership
and
the
officers
have
made
sure
that
they
stay
open
and
they
provide
such
an
incredible
and
passionate
advocacy
for
parents,
and
children
in
this
city
is
something
that
I
just
wanted
to
make
really
clear
and
really
minuted.
So
thank
you
specifically
for
that.
L
I
mean
I
I
would
want
to
pay
tribute
to
those
stuff.
I
think
through
the
pandemic
and
we've
reported
here,
council
and
through
scrutiny
the
work
of
the
children's
centers
and
whilst
we
weren't
able
to
maintain
all
of
them
remaining
open,
we
did
create
hubs.
C
Thank
you
very
much.
First
of
all,
I
would
like
to
say
my
joy
actually
knows
no
bounds
when
I
saw
this
report
and
there's
nothing
as
good
as
when
you
put
in
the
hard
work,
and
you
see
the
results
that
come
through
the
song
that
went
on
your
phone.
Unfortunately,
that's
actually
the
right
moment
right
now
when
it
says
let's
get
together
and
feel
all
right,
because
that's
exactly
how
we
feel
right
now.
C
I
would
like
to
refer
us
to
the
report
to
the
offset
report
of
number
32
for
those
of
us
who
haven't
seen
it
and
please
permit
me
to
read
it.
It
says.
Corporate
support
for
children's
social
work
is
overseen
by
committed
and
knowledgeable
leaders.
Political
oversight
through
scrutiny
is
robust
and
challenging
so
to
the
board.
We
also
got
a
good
word
in
there.
C
The
executive
member
for
children
and
the
chief
executive
of
the
council
have
an
excellent
insight
and
understanding
of
children's
social
work,
including
an
impressive
operational
knowledge,
despite
the
council
having
to
make
overall
savings.
The
overall
proportion
of
the
total
budget
for
children's
social
care
has
significantly
increased
to
ensure
that
children
remain
the
council's
highest
priority.
C
We
just
want
to
say
thank
you
from
the
bottom
of
our
hearts
for
this
and
say,
congratulations
on
this
very,
very
amazing
result,
despite
the
odds
and
what
we
have
gone
through
in
the
last
two
years.
I'm
super
proud
to
be
on
this
board
and
be
an
elected
member
of
this
council
so
to
how
much
is
given
what
is
actually
expected
and
where
the
expectations
have
come
through,
and
you
have
delivered
to
ensure
that
what
we
do
as
scrutiny
board
members
is
also
highlighted.
C
I
have
no
words
than
to
just
say
thank
you
very,
very
much
and
please
keep
up
the
good
work.
I've
spent
three
years
on
this
scrutiny
board
and
honestly
this
has
been
the
best
best
report
I
have
ever
ever
received.
So
thank
you
from
the
bottom
of
my
heart,
but
one
more
question
just
one.
What
would
you
say
of
all
that
you
have
gone
through
the
three
weeks
you
went
through
this
grueling.
What
would
you
say
is
the
one
most
challenging
factor
that
you
you're
facing
and
how
are
you
going
to
deal
with
it.
L
I
think
when
we
visit
the
our
frontline
staff
right
across
children's
centers
early
help
social
work.
The
conversation
that
we
get
into
with
them
is
about
the
levels
of
poverty
that
from
families
are
experiencing
in
their
in
their
neighborhoods,
and
I
don't
think
we
are
necessarily
in
a
position
to
do
anything
about
poverty
per
se.
However,
we
are
able
to.
L
We
are
able
to
do
things
that
reduce
the
impact
of
poverty
and
that
that
is
part
of
a
poverty
proofing
plan
that
we
have
been
working
on.
There's
been
lots
of
initiatives
through
that
to
try
and
support
families
where
they
are
most
affected
by
by
that
issue,
so
frontline
staff
always
say
it's
the
poverty
that
is
is
having
the
greatest
impact.
I
mean
when
we,
when,
in
years
gone
by
when
we've
undertaken
research
into
the
sorts
of
issues
that
we
are
dealing
with
across
children's
services.
L
What
we
tend
to
find
is
around
10
of
the
situations
that
we
come
across.
Are
those
willful
acts
of
harm
where
you
know
tend
to
be
pretty
well
set
up
to
deal
with
and
respond
to
along
along
with
our
partners,
but
the
vast
majority
of
circumstances
that
impact
our
poverty,
domestic
violence,
adult
mental
health
issues
and
circumstances
where
families
are
living
in
conditions
of
adversity
and
it's
our
mission
to
try
and
support
them
with
that.
So
I
would
say
that
those
are
the
biggest
challenges
that
we
face.
M
Oh,
my
okay,
it's
kind,
I
was
going
to
say
exactly
the
same
thing,
absolutely
poverty
and,
as
sal
said,
it
really
really
impacts
on
the
work
of
the
directorate,
because
it's
very
very
well
researched.
Now
that
there's
a
really
strong
link
between
being
in
poverty
and
being
more
likely
to
be
taken
into
care
nationally.
M
So
in
terms
of
the
adversity
that
families
are
in,
it's
not
it
it's
everything,
it's
not
just
the
kind
of
backdrop
to
how
people
are
living,
it's
it
imbues
everything
and
all
the
decisions
that
people
are
making
and
that's
why,
over
the
years
since
we've
reduced
the
numbers
of
children
who
looked
after
and
we've
done
that
safely,
some
of
our
figures
have
been
very
striking
where
we
do
not
have
the
proportion
of
children
coming
into
care
from
our
most
deprived
areas
that
other
other
parts
of
the
country
do.
M
But
it
is,
it
feels
very
extreme.
At
the
moment,
people
have
been
saying:
there's
been
a
saying
for
a
long
time
about
families
choosing
between
heating
and
eating,
we're
now
in
a
position
where
people
can't
afford
either
it's
very
extreme
and
I
chef
thrive
as
you
know,
which
is
the
child
poverty
strategy
group
for
leads
that
oversees
our
child
poverty
strategy
reports
to
this
board
twice
a
year.
The
work
of
that
board
continues
to
be
of
immense
importance.
It's
where
partnership.
Also
that's
referred
to
in
the
ofsted
report,
is
crucial.
M
We
work
with
you
know
we
work
with
health,
education,
the
third
sector,
faith
groups,
academia
in
you
know
in
addressing
this
issue,
and
we've
got
some
amazing
partners
in
leads
like
zarak
and
baby
bank.
I've
said
before
it's
kind
of
disgraceful.
They
have
to
exist,
but
it's
it's
also
thank
thank
goodness.
They
do
but
yeah.
I
would
agree
with
self
poverty.
100
is
the
biggest
issue
we're
facing
going
forward.
A
B
Just
to
start
by
saying,
thank
you
so
much
and
just
to
acknowledge.
I'm
sure
you've
made
real
compromises
in
your
personal
lives
and
you
know
to
to
carry
out
these
roles
so
so
well,
and
just
thank
you
to
everybody
who
works
for
children's
services,
whether
it's
leadership
or
on
the
ground,
and
I
know
obviously
you're
proud.
This
is
lead
screening
board
and
your
priorities
clearly
leads.
But
are
you
aware
of
any
plans-
and
I'm
sure
you've
made
maybe
been
involved
in
some
already
to
to
roll
this
way
of
working
out
across
the
country?
L
Thank
you.
So
we
following
the
the
long-term
strategy
that
we've
had
leeds
was
first
rated
as
good
in
2015
and
since
then,
obviously
without
the
2018
and
now
this
report
that
both
have
deemed
us
as
outstanding
authorities.
L
As
part
of
that
work,
the
department
for
education
we've
been
involved
with
them
in
a
role
as
partners
in
practice,
which
is
about
trying
to
support
other
local
authorities
who
are
on
their
own
improvement
journeys,
and
that
has
varied
in
terms
of
how
much
capacity
we've
put
into
that.
L
You
might
remember
that
we
worked
very
closely
with
kirklees
at
a
point
where
their
services
were
deemed
to
be
inadequate,
and
I
went
and
worked
there
to
try
and
establish
their
leadership
arrangements,
worked
closely
with
steve
walker
on
that
and
to
develop
this
style
of
working
for
them,
and
they
have
seen
significant
improvements
across
the
board
there
in
that
period
of
time.
L
There's
a
number
of
other
local
authorities
that
we
have
worked
with
to
roll
out
our
family,
valued
approach,
and
so
we
are
funded
by
the
department
for
education
to
to
undertake
that
work
and
we're
currently
working
with
half
a
dozen
authorities
on
through
a
strengthening
families
program,
and
we
have
been
able
to
build
the
capacity
to
do
that.
Work
outside
of
the
operational
sphere
of
the
service,
so
that
there's
no
impact
from
an
operational
point
of
view
on
capacity
and
quality
of
the
work
that
we
do
within
leeds.
L
So
it
sits
slightly
separately
and
quite
a
number
of
our
staff
who
are
approaching
retirement
or
who
have
retired,
but
no
other
ways
of
working
have
been
engaged
in
that
on
a
part-time
basis
and
so
that
work
with
them
with
them
continues.
It
remains
to
be
seen
where
this
report
will
will
take
that.
L
I
think
there's
currently
a
care
review
being
undertaken
by
josh
mcallister
nationally,
which
is
due
to
report
in
in
the
near
future,
and
we've
met
with
josh
on
a
number
of
occasions,
he's
been
to
see
the
arrangements
that
we've
got
here
in
leeds
as
part
of
recommendations
that
he
may
want
to
make,
but
I
think
he
is
positive
about
the
approach
that
we
take
here
in
leeds
and
will
should
be.
You
know,
I
think,
will
influence
national
policy
through
that
route.
L
If
nothing
else
and
we'll
be
we'll
continue
to
have
conversations
with
depart
for
education
to
see
what
what
we
can
do
to
help
other
authorities.
We
take
a
restorative
approach
to
that
learning.
So
we
don't
do
we
don't
talk
about.
This
is
how
we
do
it
just
do
that
and
we
in
the
same
way
that
we
work
restorative
with
it
with
our
children
and
families
in
the
city.
L
We
do
that
same
approach
with
the
other
authorities
and
they
really
appreciate
that
they've
got
their
own
journeys
and
that
they
need
to
go
on
and
we
are
always
always
mindful
of
the
nature
and
the
challenge
of
this
type
of
work
and
and,
as
I
said
before,
outstanding
does
not
mean
perfection.
L
There
are
always
going
to
be
circumstances
that
don't
go
the
way
that
you
want
them
to
and
things
that
we
get
wrong,
that
we
learn
from
and
continuously
want
to
be
engaged
in.
That
learning,
and
actually
some
of
the
work
that
we
do
with
other
with
other
authorities
does
bring
that
learning
into
us
as
well,
because
there's
you
know
even
in
inadequate
authorities,
there
are
some
great
things
that
are
often
going
on,
and
so
you
learn
as
part
of
that
process
as
well.
A
Okay,
thank
you
for
that
and
contra
the
time
we
still
got
quite
a
few
speakers.
I
certainly
don't
want
to
stifle
the
discussion,
but
I
encourage
brevity
so
because
we've
still
got
another
big
item
to
get
to
so
council.
Four
faith
is
next.
Please.
B
Thank
you
very
much
I'll,
be
reasonably
brief.
Well,
obviously,
first
of
all,
thank
you
very
much
for
this.
A
wonderful
outcome
in
trying
to
think
of
words
to
say
I
was.
I
was
sort
of
working
on
the
bank
of
words
you
use
when
you
try
to
write
a
report
for
a
really
outstanding
pupil,
but
I
I
shall
leave
that
okay
right,
so
I
can't
imagine
how
three
weeks
of
an
offstead
inspection
must
have
felt
like
having
gone
through
several
myself,
as
both
a
teacher
and
the
governor.
B
So
well
done
for
that
as
well.
Just
a
few
points,
I'm
really
pleased
council
venues
said
about,
but
we
can't
be
complacent.
That's
absolutely
right!
Yes,
there's
no
such
thing
as
perfection.
So
yes,
I'm
glad
councilor
pryor,
said
about
the
sort
of
focus
on
children
missing
education
is,
is,
is
really
important.
We
mustn't
miss
out
on
that
one.
B
I'm
glad
that
the
point
about
the
financial
priorities
was
brought
out,
because
you
know
there's
decisions
made
about
where
the
more
limited
funding
is
spent
and
keeping
children's
centers
open
was
definitely
the
right
decision.
Other
things
as
I've
just
made
a
quick
note
of
that
was
all
I
mean
the
concentration
on
partnership,
working
and
prevention
and
also
positive
relationships,
and
I'm
really
pleased
that
scrutiny
board
has
got
a
yes
we're
doing
what
we
should
be
doing,
which
is
good.
So
thank
you
very
much.
Everybody.
D
Thanks
chair,
yes,
absolutely
wonderful
report,
I
think
all
they
also
better
for
the
fact
that
it's
been
sustained
over
many
years.
So
well
done.
And
thank
you
it's
unfortunate,
and
this
is
no
reflection
on
anything
you've
done
that
the
report
doesn't
refer
more
to
the
education
side
of
what
we
provide
as
a
city,
because
I
I
mentioned
virtual
school,
which
has
been
going
for
a
long
time
and
I
think,
is
extremely
admirable
and
the
partnership
with
leed
city
college.
D
It
would
have
been
interesting
to
find
out
for
them
to
put
a
bit
more
than
that,
if
the,
if
they
actually
did,
go
into
it
in
further
detail.
But
I'm
pleased
that
you've
said
that
they
did
look
at
that
and
they
they
they
found
it
outstanding
and
were
impressed
by
it,
because
I
know
through
as
a
delegate
to
this
board
from
schools
jcc.
D
I
am
very
aware
that
the
support
that
came
from
you
during
the
pandemic
covered
for
schools
and
not
just
local
authority
schools.
There
were
academies
coming
into
every
week:
sales
bulletins
and
the
health
and
safety
risks
such
a
lot
of
work
that
you
provided
for
for
all
the
schools
in
leeds,
and
I
am
aware
from
head
teachers
that
that
I
know
and
teachers
that
that
has
been
greatly
appreciated
and
very,
very
practical.
D
What
does
worry
me,
of
course,
is
you
alluded
to
that
about
the
limiting
funds
and
the
increasing
pressure
that's
going
to
come
from
poverty.
I
would,
as
I
say,
would
have
appreciated
them
to
expand
a
little
more
on
how
good
our
education
services
are.
Thank
you.
B
B
Partnership
working
is
that
we're
able
to
provide
opportunities
for
the
inspection
team
to
see
it
in
practice
in
terms
of
area
inclusion,
partnership
work,
but
we
also
invited
stakeholders
from
the
city
to
have
a
conversation
with
the
inspector
inspection
team
as
well,
which
really
talked
about
the
strength
of
partnership,
work,
our
most
vulnerable
learners
and
how
we
support
the
vulnerable
learners,
their
relationships
with
least
city
council
and
the
relationship,
but
vice
versa.
But
the
support
that
we
provide
in
terms
of
high
challenge
and
high
support.
So
when
the
most
vulnerable
learners
are
identified.
B
What
do
we
put
into
place
now
in
terms
of
our
processes?
And
how
do
we
challenge
back
accordingly,
when
we
feel
the
decisions
need
to
be
made
or
thought
about
quite
differently,
and
the
stakeholders
from
academy
trusts
to
maintain
schools
really
celebrated
the
work
of
lee
city
council
and
obviously
their
own
work?
B
And
it
was
noted
by
the
inspection
team
that
it's
one
that
they
felt
lucky
to
be
part
of
leeds,
but
also
exceptionally
well
supported,
so
who
to
go
to
who
to
turn
to
who'd,
have
the
conversations
with
because
they
fight
facing
challenges
and
struggles.
But
what
can
they
do?
And
I
think
it's
something
that
council
price
mentioned
earlier?
Is
that
actually
we're
providing
a
holistic
package
of
support
and
that's
what
the
report
really
picks
up
on
that
we're
not
just
providing
statutory.
B
Our
metric
is
not
just
compliance,
but
our
metric
is
one
of
quality,
and
how
do
we
ensure
that
the
voice
is
heard
from
from
from
our
partners,
as
well
as
a
voice
from
lisa's
accounts
in
terms
of
our
relational
practices?
And
then
how
is
that
then
used
to
challenge
back
and
to
support?
So
we
had
a
very
thorough
look
at
the
educational
aspects
of
it,
but
you're
right
it
doesn't
capture
it.
B
We
have
our
own
comments,
our
own
notes
and
our
own
meetings
and
our
own
feedback,
and
it
does
much
much
more
than
is
captured
in
the
report.
So
I
would
agree
with
you
in
terms
of
that,
but
I
think
we
can
everyone
could
hold
their
heads
up
high
and
be
proud
of
that
outcome.
N
I'd
just
like
to
come
come
on
the
back
of
what
shaheen's
just
said
really,
because
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
was
really
highlighted
in
the
report
was
our
early
help
and
the
effectiveness
of
our
early
help
and
I
think,
we're
all
really
clear
the
role
in
which
our
schools
across
the
city,
you
know
play
their
part
in
that
early
help
is
a
key
partner
and
if
we
think
about
the
clusters,
if
we
think
about
the
pandemic,
you
know
having
the
eyes
the
line
of
sight
on
those
children
who
were
most
vulnerable
or
children
who
were
tipped
into
becoming
vulnerable
during
the
pandemic.
N
K
Just
to
pick
up
some
of
the
comments
that
celie
made
a
lot
of
these
kind
of
are
the
results
of
this
report
didn't
happen
overnight
and
I
think
a
lot
of
it
is
from
years
and
years
of
work.
When
we
look
at
things
like.
K
I
know
the
children's
center's
been
mentioned
a
few
times,
but
then
you
look
at
how
we've
managed
to
reduce
the
number
safely
reduce
the
number
of
children
who've
needed
to
go
into
care
when
you
compare
that
to
other
local
authorities
that
maybe
made
a
quick
decision
10
years
ago
to
close
children's
centers
and
cut
back.
K
Actually,
that's
resulted
in
costing
them
more
over
time,
and
I
know
this
is
something
that
has
been
recognized
by
the
children's
commissioner
nationally
and
it's
something
which
she's
obviously
congratulated
us
on
this
and
I
think,
there's
a
real
lesson,
hopefully
for
the
rest
of
the
country
that
actually
sometimes
quick
cuts
and
quick
savings
may
solve
a
budget
problem
for
one
year,
but
actually
years
and
years
down
the
line
cause
problems
not
just
for
those
young
people,
but
also
cause
financial
problems
too.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
council
stevenson.
Please
thank.
H
You
chair,
following
on
something
I
think
both
council
veterans
assal
mentioned-
was
the
interim
front
door,
inspection
back
who's
it
august
last
year.
I
think,
and
how
that's
mentioned
in
here,
and
I
think
linking
that
to
scrutiny
the
we
expected
quite
a
lot
of
salary's
team
in
terms
of
the
quick
turnaround
to
get
that
back
on
track
and
the
fact
that
this
report
references
that
that
work
has
taken
place
and
his
is
showing
fruits
is
certainly
something
I
think
should
be
proud
of.
H
And
I
congratulate
you
for
that
and
thank
you.
My
question
was
on
social
workers.
I
was
discussing
with
a
constituent
at
the
weekend
who
is
opting
to
do
a
social
care
apprenticeship,
and
she
said
to
me
that
she
could
only
do
that
in
either
hull
or
bradford,
because
there
weren't
any
in
leads.
Is
that
because
we
don't
offer
them
or
we're
at
capacity?
N
Yeah,
I
can
come
in
on
that
and
we
do
have
social
work
apprenticeships
in
leeds
and
it's
something
that
we
want
to
expand
on,
and
I
do
know
that
there
were
interviews
last
week
for
a
number
of
staff
who
work
within
the
council
who
don't
have
a
professional
qualification,
but
who
can
use
that
as
a
pathway
into
social
work
and
sal
taught
earlier
about
our
recruitment
strategy,
and
that
is
an
absolute
part
of
that
strategy.
Also,
you
know
thinking
about
other
other
ideas,
potential
bursaries.
You
know
we're
exploring
a
whole
range
of
things.
N
I
think
we
talked
previously
here
about
individuals
with
lived
experience.
You
know,
individuals
who've
brought
up
their
own
children,
family
children
and
we
really
would
need
to
tap
into
that
lived
experience
and
an
example
of
that
is
some
of
the
concepts
that
we've
made
with
migration
yorkshire
in
terms
of
newly
arrived
families
who
do
have
that
lived
experience.
N
We
are
part
of
a
workforce,
race,
equality
standards
programme,
and
that
really
is
about
looking
at
how
we
can.
You
know,
as
I've
said,
really
diversify
the
workforce,
so
that
it
does
reflect
the
children
and
families
that
we
seek
to
support.
So
an
awful
lot
of
work.
We
do
offer
apprenticeships
and
we
will
want
to
build
on
that
and
expand
that.
A
Thank
you,
jackie.
Please.
B
Firstly,
I'd
like
to
congratulate
every
member
of
staff
all
the
way
down
to
you
know
every
person
that
has
brought
this
outstanding
results,
which
is
really
good.
When
I,
when
I
started
here
10
years
ago,
we
were
requiring
improvement
at
the
time,
and
I
thought
it
was
a
big
thing.
B
But
the
one
thing
I'd
like
to
say
that
it
says
in
here:
it's
the
sorry,
restorative
and
model
has
been
further
embedded
into
practice.
I
remember
when
it
was
spoked
about
about
10
years
ago,
and
now
it's
embedded,
it's
gone
all
through
there.
Every
three
services
and
everything
is
absolutely
phenomenal
and
amazing
to
see.
I
didn't
think
it
would.
Actually,
you
know
come
to
an
outstanding,
but
it
has-
and
it's
absolutely
wonderful
to
see
and
I'd
like
to
congratulate
every
member
that
has
brought
this
to
the.
A
Thank
you,
jackie
another
one
thing
that
struck
me
when
you're
saying
that
I
think
nigel
and
steve
weren't
mentioned
this
morning
as
well.
For
for
those
who
has
been
here
right
throughout
the
journey
then-
and
I
certainly
clashed
with
nigel
once
or
twice,
but
he
he
started
the
ball
rolling
and
steve
took
it
on.
It's
been
a
long
team
effort.
A
Of
course,
sal
has
been
there
all
the
way
through
as
the
constant
threat
that's
kept
driving
things
forward,
so
it's
worth
mentioning
them
so
councillor,
flint
I'll,
take
and
then
comments.
G
Thank
you
yeah.
I
just
want
to
add
my
congratulations
and
thanks
for
all
your
hard
work
and
just
for
every
frontline
staff
member,
like
in
such
a
difficult
few
years
to
come,
get
to
this
place
is
just
impressive
and
just
a
real
recognition
of
all
your
hard
work
and
commitment
and
sacrifice,
and
so
thank
you
to
you
and
all
your
families.
G
I
guess
for
cheering
you
on
in
the
background,
and
then
I
know
that
it's
been
mentioned
about
the
staff
feeling
supported,
but
my
friends,
who
are
social
workers,
have
said
that
that,
in
a
time
with
kind
of
increased
volume
of
need
and
the
complexity
of
need
and
at
times
feeling
overwhelmed,
they've
always
felt
supported
and
know
that
people
have
had
their
back
and
so
to
have
built.
That
kind
of
support
and
feeling
of
like
being
part
of
a
team
is
great.
G
You
know,
through
lockdown
and
zoom
meetings,
to
sort
of
keep
that
feeling
of
team
is
really
impressive,
and
then
it's
amazing
for
the
children
in
our
city
and
for
families,
and
you
know
proving
it
says
in
the
report.
You
know
that
this
shows
that
you
know
children
are
the
highest
priority
in
our
city
and
it
is
really
moving.
Isn't
it
that
and
something
that
we
can
all
be
proud
of,
and
that
this
has
been
recognized
in
such
a
thorough
inspection.
G
So
I
just
had
a
couple
of
questions.
I
know
the
role
of
early
help
has
been
mentioned
and
the
importance
of
investing
in
that-
and
you
know
my
background-
is
youth
work
and
just
wondered
if
you
could
unpack
a
bit,
how
how
the,
how
you
work
with
the
youth
work
service
and
how
maybe
just
some
examples
of
like
how
important
is
having
a
flexible
kind
of
range
of
support
and
early
intervention
and
how
important
like
having
the
right
tone
and
attitude
of
working
with
families.
G
So
it's
not
seen
as
a
threat
but
but
is
actually
seen
as
support.
You
know,
that's
so
important
and
to
work
with
them
a
range
of
agencies
and
just
kind
of
what
that
looks
like
and
some
good
examples
of
that.
And
then
the
other
thing
that
I
was
just
sort
of
thrilled
to
see
in
the
report
is
that
we
really
value
the
importance
of
children's
voices
being
heard
and
like
their
input.
G
You
know
we're
all
talking
about
here
as
adults,
but
you
know
children
have
real
input
into
the
service
and
that's
something
that
we
can
be
really
proud
of.
So
just
to
comment
on
that.
Thank
you.
A
C
I
wasn't
aware
we
would
be
wrapping
up
so
quickly,
so
I
have
a
a
range
of
questions.
Chair
apologies
for
that.
I'm
excited
to
be
back
in
scrutiny
after
adoption
leave
I'll
start
with.
How
have
we
embedded
restorative
practice?
It
was
touched
on
by
jackie
and
it
would
be
good
to
hear
how
that's
been
done
I'll
fire
these
out
quite
quickly.
C
It
mentions
strong
leaders
and
council
members
and
sorry
senior
leaders
and
council
members
are
on
stinting
in
their
efforts
and
ambitions
for
children
to
achieve
their
full
potential
and
and
one
of
the
wondrous
things
about
ofsted
is
they're
very
effective
at
putting
things
into
reports,
but
not
particularly
broad
in
their
information.
So
I
just
wondered
whether
in
the
verbal
feedback
they
mentioned
anything
particular
that
we've
done.
That's
really
made
an
impact
on
that,
because
that
feels
really
important.
C
C
I
don't
know
whether
it
still
links
to
that
recruitment
stuff,
in
which
case,
obviously
just
ignore
that
question
talks
about
the
forms
being
used
by
partners
and
that
partners
aren't
standardizing
it,
and
I
just
wondered
why
partners
weren't
using
the
right
forms
and
the
fact
it
seems
to
illustrate
that
that's
making
our
work
as
a
local
authority
harder.
So
I
wondered
whether
basically
are
we
mopping
up
almost
after
partners,
something
I'm
passionate
about
as
lgbt
champion
lgbt
plus
champion.
C
Sorry
is
children's
culture
and
identity
are
very
well
understood
by
social
workers.
Point
eight:
can
you
tell
us
a
little
bit
more
about
how
this
plays
out
trying
to
be
as
brief
as
I
can
share?
It
mentions
parents
that
elect
to
educate
their
children
at
home.
How
are
numbers
of
home,
educated,
young
people
going
now
post
covered?
C
This
might
have
been
covered
in
a
previous
scrutiny
board,
but
obviously
I've
been
away,
and
there
was
some
discussion
during
the
pandemic
that
people
were
increasing
home
education
and
I
just
wondered
how
that
was
going.
C
The
wishes
and
feelings
of
children.
It
mentions-
and
I
think
it's
just
so
important
and
it's
been
mentioned
already
about
the
voice
of
children,
and
I
just
wondered
having
just
come
back
to
it
again,
having
adopted
two
tiny
people,
what
we
do
to
get
the
voices
of
those
tiny
people
because
on
the
forms
I
got
it
just
said,
they're
too
young
and
I
wondered
if
there
was
actually
in
a
I
didn't
adopt
them
from
leeds.
C
C
It
talks
and
mentions
a
staying
put
thing
and
I
just
wondered
whether
that's
something
that
happens
all
over
the
country
or
whether
that's
something
that
leeds
has
specifically
driven
forward,
and
it
also
talks
about
children
being
able
to
access
advocacy
when
needed,
and
I
wondered
what
that
looked
like
there's
just
such
a
lot
that
could
be
picked
up
on
perhaps
I'll
leave
it
there
actually
chair,
because
you're
raising
your
eyebrows
a
little
bit
at
me
so,
but
I
might
yet
come
back
in
if
you'll.
Let
me
I'd.
A
Just
do
that
generally
counselor
before
so,
and
so
it
counts
to
linux
and
then
there's
an
awful
lot
to
pick
up.
I'm
just
I'm
conscious
that
we've
got
some
guests
with
us
for
the
next
item
and
I
don't
want
to
keep
them,
keep
them
waiting
which
I'm
keen.
I
certainly
there's
lots
to
talk
about
in
this
go
on
thanks,
jeff.
C
This
is
yeah,
that's
okay,
one
final,
one,
that
even
if
I
don't
get
to
do
the
others.
I
really
really
would
like
an
answer
for
this.
One
is:
do
our
children
in
care
have
somebody
to
attend
parents
evening
with
them.
I
know,
as
a
teacher
that
there's
a
really
fine
balance
between
having
a
worker
come
with
you
to
parents
evening
and
having
to
explain
to
your
friends
that
actually
it's
not
your
parent
versus
the
idea
that
nobody
goes
to
parents
evening.
C
F
Okay,
I
initially
wanted
to
speak
about
about
about
voice
children's
voice,
which
has
been
asked
and
asked
about
by
council
flint
and
councillor
bithell.
F
We
we've
always
heard
the
amazing
work
being
done
on
children's
voice
and
influence
in
the
council,
and
it's
really
good
to
see
that
that
is
still
a
core
of
what
of
what's
happening
and
then,
what's
in
the
report,
I
was
going
to
ask
whether
anything
in
the
report
covers
the
work
done
for
asylum
seeker
children,
especially
as
we
are
having
more
and
more
families
arrive
and
more
children
arrive.
F
I'm
not
aware
of
the
numbers
of
unaccompanied
children
coming
from
the
ukraine
or
elsewhere
at
the
moment,
and
but
it
also
seems
like
something
that
our
city's
done
amazing
work
on
in
previous
years
and
obviously
contributes
to
the
lives
of
our
children
as
a
whole
in
the
city
and
in
our
education
system.
So
anything
that
that
was
mentioned
in
the
report
about
that
would
be
great
to
hear
about.
L
Yeah,
just
on
so
I'll
try
and
work
through
a
few
of
these
and
then
bring
others
in
just
on
some
of
the
specifics.
I
think
we
have
spent
a
long
period
of
time
working
on
a
relational
approach
to
the
work
that
we
do,
and
I
think
what's
important
about
that
is
about
the
engagement
listening,
that
we
do
with
our
staff
and
in
the
organization
and
what
the
purpose
of
that
is
to
set
a
culture.
L
That
means
that,
when
our
frontline
staff
engage
with
children
and
families
they're
in
a
position
to
behave
in
the
in
that
same
way,
so
there's
something
about
modeling
that
we've
had
to
do.
We've
had
specific
development
work
done
over
a
number
of
years
around
how
you
create
that
culture
within
an
organization,
particularly
one
that
is
about
humanity.
L
I
think
at
the
at
the
end
of
the
day-
and
I
think
it's
really
important-
that
getting
those
organizational
cultures
in
that
space
means
that
people
are
much
more
able
to
behave
in
that
way
with
families,
and
I
think
that
that's
part
of
the
long-term
vision
and
plan
sticking
to
you
know
having
a
strategic
long-term
plan
about
improving
outcomes
for
children
and
then
sticking
with
it.
I
think
that
has
been
one
of
the
strengths
in
leeds.
L
I
would
say
that
I
think
we
need
to
revisit
some
of
the
relational
stuff
and
both
across
our
partnership,
but
also
within
our
own
organization,
because
you
can't
do
enough
of
it.
You've
got
to
continue
it's
good,
it's
one
of
those
things
that
you
have
to
continually
feed,
because
people
leave
change.
L
People
forget
some
of
the
development
work
that
they
did.
So
there
is
something
that
we
need
to
continue
to
do
on
the
initial
child
protection
conferences.
There
were
significant
issues
around
vacancies
and
absence
related
to
corvid,
particularly,
but
also
when
there
were
some
changes
taking
place
in
terms
of
business
support,
particularly
specialist
minute
takers.
For
those
child
protection
conferences.
L
There
was
a
shortage
of
that
of
those,
and
so
we
had
to
work
hard
to
make
sure
that
we
had
the
right
capacity
and
we
quickly
put
that
back
in
place
as
soon
as
we
could
so
that
it
came
and
was
back
in
shape.
Culture
and
identity
was
an
issue
that
came
from
a
long
piece
of
work
that
we've
been
doing,
but
stemmed
from
analysis
previously
that
assessments
didn't
pay
enough
attention
to
those
factors.
So
it's
good
to
see
that
the
work
that's
been
going
on
within
our
workforce
development.
L
Part
of
the
part
of
the
world
is
starting
to
come
through.
Staying
pot
is
something
that
is
a
national
policy,
but
I
think
we've
had
the
highest
number
of
staying
put
arrangements
in
the
country
at
various
points
in
time,
because
we
really
encouraged
and
pushed
that,
and
in
fact
we
only
received
a
fraction
of
the
actual
money
that
we
spend
on
staying
put
from
national
government.
We've
secured
investment
to
support
that,
because
it's
about
maintaining
young
people.
L
You
know
somebody
talked
about
transitions
earlier
on
it's
about
maintaining
young
people
within
their
foster
placements
when
they
reach
a
certain
age
and
then
being
able
to
stay
there
longer
you'll.
You
know
everybody
will
have
experience
of
their
own
kids
being
35
now
and
living
at
home,
and
why
shouldn't
that
be
the
same
for
children
in
care
in
some
ways
is
what
sits
behind
staying,
put
as
a
philosophical
approach
and
then
voice
and
influence.
L
We've
we've
had
a
specific
voice
and
influence
team
in
the
council,
which
I
don't
know,
exists
in
many
other
places
who
do
an
amazing
job.
I
know
that
scrutiny
have
experienced
some
of
their
work.
We've
had
some
of
the
young
people
come
to
scrutiny
and
talk
about
their
experiences
through
the
work
that
they
do.
L
We
have
specific
groups
for
young
people
dependent
on
their
circumstances,
but
actually
the
other
big
piece
around
voice
is
on
individual
on
an
individual
basis
through
the
work
that
everybody
does
through
early
help
through
social
work
through
all
of
the
work
across
learning.
Where
we
give,
you
know,
you
have
a
philosophical
approach
that
says
we
will
listen
to
and
act
upon
what
children
say.
L
We
won't
always
do
exactly
what
they
want,
but
there
will
be
an
explanation
where
that
that
isn't
the
case,
and
certainly
for
those
that
are
non-verbal.
Our
expectation
in
leeds
is
that
we
seek
other
ways
to
identify
and
express
their
their
views,
but
also
for
younger
children
using
things
like
observation
of
behavior,
and
you
know
their
other
indicators
about
whether
or
not
they
are
happy
and
settled.
L
I
think
I've
covered
as
many
as
I
could.
I
don't
know
if
there's
anything
julie
wanted
to
pick
up
on.
N
Yeah,
I
suppose
I'd
just
like
to
come
back
on
the
youth
work
question
so
have
a
fantastic
youth
work
service.
We've
maintained
that
youth
work
service
when
a
lot
of
other
local
authorities
have
not
continued
to
invest
in
that
service
and
it's
an
absolute
partnership
with
the
third
sector
with
the
voluntary
sector.
So
we
have
our
own
internal
youth
service.
But
equally
we
have
a
range
of
services
which
are
commissioned
through
our
partners.
N
They
have
statutory
functions
as
well
as
non-statutory
functions.
So
if
I
give
you
a
few
examples
and
some
of
the
statutory
work
that
our
youth
workers
get
involved
with
is
return
home
interviews
so
where
we
have
had
children
who
have
gone
missing
and
when
they
are
located,
and
they
are
offered
an
opportunity
to
speak
with
a
youth
worker,
an
experienced
youth
worker
who's
experienced
in
engaging
with
young
people
just
to
have
a
conversation
about.
N
N
Another
statutory
function
in
terms
of
our
youth
service
is
our
work
with
young
people
who
are
at
risk
of
not
being
in
employment
and
training
and
our
education.
So
again
we
have
our
september
guarantee
in
terms
of
tracking
those
young
people
and
make
sure
that
they
have
got
that
september
guarantee
and
that
they
are
in
education
and
training
and
again
that's
a
key
function
and
for
our
youth
service,
our
activity,
centers,
absolutely
key,
and
if
we
think
about
the
pandemic,
where
we
had
children
and
young
people
who
did
not
have
access
to
outdoor
space.
N
But
actually
those
activity
centers,
which
are
managed
and
facilitated
by
the
youth
service,
were
absolutely
invaluable,
both
to
our
own
looked
after
children,
our
care
leavers,
but
also
those
children
who
who
live
in
our
communities
and
the
other
role
that
they
play
is
within
our
early
help
hubs.
N
So
again,
if
we
see,
if
I
think
about
again
during
the
pandemic,
where
we
had
adolescents
who
perhaps
weren't
adhering
and
to
lock
down
a
guidance
where
there
might
have
been
issues
around
urban
myths
and
actually
what
what
is
covered,
what
does
it
mean
to
us?
N
You
know
we
can't
we
we're
invincible
if
you
like,
and
our
youth
workers
did
an
awful
lot
of
work
with
localities
with
different
communities
in
terms
of
that
national
guidance,
and
so
that
was
absolutely
key
also
just
in
relation
to
and
children
who
are
at
risk
of
exploitation.
N
And
again,
you
know
our
youth
work
is
absolutely
if
you
think
about
that
early
help
and
that
early
prevention
and
building
those
relationships
with
those
children
at
a
locality
level,
and
it's
absolutely
key.
So
they
were
a
feature
of
the
inspection,
certainly
their
statutory
function
and
their
function
within
with
an
early
help
and
was
absolutely
something
and
that's
been
commended.
You
know
and
that
we
we
value,
I
think,
as
sal
has
said,
in
relation
to
our
voice
and
influence
work.
N
We
have
you
know
with
a
fantastic
team
and
we've
now
conveyed
our
advice
and
influence
team
with
our
child-friendly
leads
team.
Some
of
the
work
that
we
do
is
with
our
care
leaders
is
with
looked
after
children
as
part
of
the
inspection.
The
inspection
inspectors
did
meet
with
some
unaccompanied
asylum
seeking
children
and
they
did
feed
back
their
experience
of
meeting
with
those
children
and
there
was
one
experience
which
moved
the
inspectors.
N
It
moved
me
when
I
heard
it
and
it
was
about
a
young
man
who
had
recently
arrived
in
the
city
and
we
often
will
give
those
young
people.
You
know
a
range
of
things
that
we
think
will
will
that
they
will
find
useful,
that
they
will
be
helpful
to
them,
and
the
young
man
described
that
when
he
was
given
a
prayer
match,
I
think
to
use
his
own
words.
He
felt
that
he
had
come
home.
N
So
for
me
you
know,
I
think
our
work.
You
know
to
hear
that
from
that
young
person
and
what
that
meant
to
him,
I
think,
does
shape
our
practice.
If
we
learn
from
that-
and
you
know
we
will
develop
our
work
around
that
in
terms
of
the
forms.
I
think
this
is
partnership
work.
I
think
you
know
we
have
processes.
We
have
complex
processes,
we're
always
working
to
see
how
we
can
streamline
those.
N
If
you
think
about
contacts
and
referrals
that
come
in
through
the
front
door,
we
you
know
thinking
about
actually
how
we
can
make
that
more
efficient
and
less
bureaucratic.
So
I
think
that's
something
that
we
are
just
working
on
constantly.
I
think
just
in
relation
to
restorative
practice
know.
I
think
that
is
at
the
heart
of
everything
that
we
do.
I
think
that's
why
we
have
a
workforce
which
has
stayed
in
leeds
for
a
long
time
and
people
that
are
loyal
to
leads
it's
about
our
value
base.
N
It
is
about,
first
and
foremost,
wanting
to
help
children
and
families
that
are
struggling
with
adversity,
recognizing
and
believing
that
if
those
children
and
families
get
the
right
support,
if
we
work
with
them,
if
we
listen
to
their
voice,
if
we
listen
to
their
wishes,
if
we
respect
their
lived
experience
within
that
giving
high
support
and
high
challenge
being
really
clear
about,
you
know
concerns
that
we
we
have.
You
know
thinking
about
our
family
group
conferencing
and
the
role
of
family
and
the
importance
of
family
in
children's
lives.
N
You
know
thinking
about
culture
and
identity,
and
actually
you
know
the
role
of
family
within
that.
I
think
that's
what
inspires
our
workforce.
You
know
is
the
fact
that
our
work
and
our
approach
is
aligned
with
our
own
personal
and
professional
values.
So
we
get
up
in
the
morning.
We
have
fire
in
our
belly
because
we
are
inspired
by
the
value
base
that
we
have
in
in
leeds
in
terms
of
culture
and
identity.
N
It
has
been
a
key
priority
for
us
and
we
did
have
a
really
interesting
session
at
the
deputy
director's
development
session,
which
is
something
that
we
hold
about
once
every
six
weeks.
We
have
you
know,
managers
from
right
across
the
directorate
attend
and
we
did
have
young
people
come
to
that
session
and
talk
to
us
about
what
culture
and
identity
meant
for
them,
and
actually
that's
just
an
example
where
we've
taken
the
voice,
the
feedback
from
children.
You
know
into
our
own
practice
to
develop
our
practice
and
actually,
how
do
we
enter
into
a
discussion?
N
Then,
with
children
you
know
with
adolescents,
about
their
culture
and
their
identity.
We
have
practice
themed
mum
months
where
we
will
focus
on
an
area
of
our
practice,
and
culture
and
identity
has
been
a
feature.
We
have
action,
learning
sex,
we
have
academic
lectures,
and
so
it's
really
pleasing
to
see
that
that
work,
you
know,
has
been
evidenced
in
a
sense
through
the
inspection,
but
again
there's
no
room
for
complacency.
It's
something
that
we
need
to
continue
to
work
on
in
leeds.
I
Pre-Pandemic,
the
numbers
in
the
city
were
around
the
500
600
market
changes
at
different
periods
during
the
year.
What
we
are
now
seeing
are
numbers
similar
to
what
we
had
during
the
pandemic,
so
it
has
not
decreased
significantly.
So
last
year,
2021
in
march,
we
had
907
children,
their
elective
fleet,
home
educated.
I
I
think
also
what
I
would
like
to
stress-
and
I
know
that
other
people
have
also
referred
to
it
and
that
you
haven't
had
all
of
that
information
that
came
out
from
certainly
from
the
learning
aspects
of
the
deep
dives
that
the
inspectors
did,
but
elective
home
education
was
under
close
scrutiny
and
they
were
extremely
positive
about
the
outcomes.
Looking
at
the
way
we
safeguard
those
young
people
and
go
beyond
in
leads
what
other
local
authorities
in
terms
of
statutory
functions
do
so
it
was
extremely
positive.
Those
conversations
thank
you.
A
Thank
you,
and
just
on
that,
as
well.
Just
to
reassure
you,
there's
an
interim
report
coming
to
the
the
first
meeting
of
the
successor
board
to
update
where
we've
got
to
on
on
those
issues
and
decide
what
next
steps
to
take
so
julie.
N
Sorry,
it
was
just
to
come
back
on
councillor
beatles
question
about
open
evenings
and
parents
evenings,
and
I
think
for
us
and
again
a
starting
point
is:
is
family.
You
know
again,
so
some
of
our
you
know
think
about
children
are
residential
children's
homes.
You
know
where
we
are
ensuring
that
they
do
maintain
contact
with
their
family.
You
know
so
again
it
might
be
an
ants,
it
might
be
an
uncle
there's
a
conversation
about
the
child.
You
know
in
terms
of
who
would
they
want
to
be
with
them
at
their
parents
evening?
N
It
may
well
be
a
professional
it.
May
you
know.
So
again.
I
think
that's
a
conversation
and
it's
about
the
relationships
that
individuals
have
the
key,
significant
people
in
that
child's
life,
so
it
will
be
an
individual
decision
in
a
sense
for
every
child
and
young
person,
but
it
is
something
which
will
be
carefully
thought
through
in
case.
It's
carefully
constituted.
A
Thank
you
for
that
right,
sal
or
councillor
any
final
comments
from
either
of
you.
M
Thank
you.
The
the
report
was
embargoed
for
a
long
time.
I
mean
it
was
always
been
embargoed
for
a
few
weeks
and
then
the
publication
period
was
extended,
so
it
wasn't
published
during
purdue.
So
it's
felt
like
a
long
time
getting
to
this
point
of
being
able
to
share
the
result.
So
thank
you
so
much
for
all
your
contributions
and
your
positive
comments.
M
It's
it's
really
lovely
as
well
that
people
referenced
what
a
grueling
three
weeks.
It
must
have
been
particularly
those
who
have
been
through
often
in
schools.
It
is
a
long
period.
They
give
you
a
week's
notice
on,
like
I
know
it's
a
day
in
schools
in
that
first
week.
That's
when
they
met
tom
and
myself
and
sounded
the
setup
meeting,
they
gathered
all
the
data
and
they're
on
site
for
two
full
weeks.
So
it
is
a
really
really
grueling
process.
It
was
probably
the
longest
three
weeks
of
my
life.
M
M
How
I
was
particularly
proud
about
the
feedback
around
looked
as
children
and
care
leavers
and
that
moving
from
good
to
outstanding
and
as
julie
said,
they
gave
us
some
incredible
feedback
in
the
verbal
feedback
about
their
meetings
with
some
unaccompanied
sign
of
seeking
children
and
they
referenced
the
football
team
that
we've
got
and
the
recipe
book
that
people
have
been
putting
together
and
it
was
just
yeah
very,
very
moving.
M
Thank
you
for
all
your
work
on
scrutiny,
as
has
been
referenced,
scrutiny
was
positively
mentioned
in
the
report
for
its
robustness,
and
particularly
thank
you,
jackie.
It
was
really
really
interesting
hearing
you
talk
about
having
been
on
the
board
when
we
were
in
requires
improvement
and
you've
been
such
an
integral
part
of
that
journey.
You
know
from
inadequate
through
to
good
and
then
outstanding,
and
I
can't
I'm
sorry
councillor
and
shaw
cancer.
Growing
I've
also
been
really
long-term
members
of
this
board
and
thank
you.
M
We
will
look
forward
to
working
with
you
going
forward,
we'll
bring
the
improvement
plan
back
to
you,
and
I
really
hope
that
this
board
feels
assured.
You
know
about
the
strong,
creative
social
work
to
use.
M
Ofsted's
words
and
our
children
receive
the
passion
and
dedication
of
our
staff
and
the
commitment
that
everybody
has
to
the
safety
and
well-being
of
children
in
leeds,
and
I
hope
that
you
also
feel
really
proud
and
I
don't
think
it's
been
referenced
yet,
but
it's
the
10th
birthday
this
year
of
child
friendly
needs
and
what
a
year
to
have
this
report
in
that
that
actually,
you
know,
puts
out
there
that
children
are
our
top
priority
as
a
city.
It's
a
really
lovely
timing
in
the
10th
year
of
child
friendly
leaders.
L
I
won't
add
too
much
castle,
but
I
think
part
of
my
role
in
this
is
just
to
kind
of
ensure
that
we
get
the
thanks
and
appreciation
across
to
frontline
staff
and
partners,
as
I've
said
before,
and
to
ensure
that
they
really
feel
valued
for
everything
that
they've
done.
But
it's
also
part
of
my
role
to
ensure
that
there's
no
complacency.
L
You
know
enough,
and
I've
tried
to
litter
some
of
the
comments
that
I've
made
with
this
notion.
That
outstanding
doesn't
mean
perfection,
and
things
will
happen
on
any
given
day
in
a
huge
city,
with
the
demands
that
we've
got
on
the
communities
that
we
serve
all
of
the
time,
and
so
we
have
to
be
particularly
alert
to
that
and
so
a
bit
of
a
bar
humbug
from
me
about
the
fact
that
we've
got
to
get
you
know.
L
We
have
to
be
all
the
time
back
on
to
that
work,
because
that's
how
important
it
is
for
every
every
child
that
we
come
across
in
the
city
and
and
just
in
terms
of
the
stuff.
They
are
under
enormous
pressure
right
across
children's
services
at
the
moment,
and
so
it
doesn't
always.
L
It's
not
doesn't
always
feel
celebratory
in
that
sense
because
of
the
pressure
that
people
are
under,
but
so
there's
a
defined
balance
between
that
absolute
recognition,
getting
back
on
to
making
sure
that
we've
given
give
them
the
support
and
help
that
they
need
to
be
their
best
and
to
make
sure
that
all
of
the
time
we're
working
towards
improving
our
services
continually.
A
Thank
you
very
much,
and
can
I
just
add
a
mention
of
celia
and
tony
as
well.
Who've
been
a
long
long-standing
members
of
this
board
yeah!
Well!
Well,
I
I've
been
here
for
15
years
and
they
predate
me.
So
tony
was
a
young
man
when
he,
when
he
joined
to
join
the
board.
A
So
but
thank
you
all,
I
think
we
fulfilled
our
recommendation
to
consider
and
discuss
the
findings
of
the
ofsted
inspection.
It
is
a
moment
to
celebrate
and
reflect
and
thank
everybody
and,
along
with
sal's,
slight
killjoy
damp
there,
that
we
recognize
that
outstanding
doesn't
mean
perfection
and
to
reassure
you
in
the
same
way.
A
So
we
will
continue
to
be
robust
and
challenging
on
this
board,
because
we
all
every
single
person
around
this
table
and
I
think
in
the
entire
council-
cares
passionately
about
getting
the
best
outcomes
for
children
and
young
people
and
that
work
can
never
stop
so,
let's
celebrate
today,
but
we
have
to
crack
on
and
keep
that
work
going.
But
thank
you,
everybody
for
your
country.
Did
you
want
to
really
quickly.
A
Absolutely
counselor
marshall,
catherine,
yes,
yeah,
we'll
have
a
a
brief
comfort
break
and
then,
if
everyone
can
take
their
seats
in
well
I'll,
say
three
minutes
to
make
it
actually
five,
so
we
can
start.
Thank
you.
A
Okay,
everybody
so
we're
moving
on
now
to
item
eight,
which
is
notification
of
serious
child,
safeguarding
incidents,
review
update
so
following
the
scrutiny
board's
february
meeting.
The
purpose
of
this
item
is
to
receive
an
update
from
the
least
safeguarding
children's
partnership
lscp
on
its
review
of
the
notification
process
with
regards
to
serious
child
safeguarding
incidents,
a
briefing
paper
from
the
lscp
executive
has
been
provided
to
the
board.
A
A
E
Thank
you
chair.
Yes,
my
name
is
jasmine
de
sangera,
I'm
the
independent
chair
for
the
lscep.
My
role
is
one
of
scrutiny
to
provide
independent,
objective
views.
My
views
are
all
based
on
evidence.
What
I
see
and
hear
and
those-
and
that
includes
those
who
work
with
vulnerable
children
as
well.
A
Okay,
thank
you
very
much
and
you're
very
welcome.
I'm
really
grateful
to
giving
up
your
time
to
to
come
and
join
us
this
morning.
So
if
I
could
start
by
inviting
jazz
finder
as
chair
of
the
lscp
to
lead
on
introducing
the
briefing
paper
and
then
the
other
executive
members
might
wish
to
to
offer
some
introductory
comments
as
well
before
we
go
into
questions
from
board
members
and
also
I'll
just
highlight
that
we
had
hoped
that
we'd
have
the
the
full
report
for
that.
A
E
Thank
you,
chair
and
chair.
If
I
may,
before
I
speak,
what
I
would
like
to
say
is
that
since
come
to
scrutiny
last
time,
I'd
like
to
reiterate
this
point-
and
I
know
I've
said
it
in
my
introduction-
that
my
role
is
one
of
independence.
E
That
requires
me
to
challenge,
and
sometimes
you
may
not
agree
with
me,
but
I
do
it
in
the
interest
of
children
and
young
people.
So
I
didn't
appreciate
that
and
it
will
be
remain
unnamed
counsellor,
but
I'm
not
going
to
name
the.
I
have
meetings
with
councillors
too,
so
I
didn't
appreciate
that
I'm
here
to
be
respected,
as
I
would
respect
you
and
I
expect
mutual
respect.
E
So
I
just
wanted
to
make
that
very
clear
in
terms
of
my
role,
so
basically
I
was
invited
to
come
last
time
to
scrutiny
in
terms
of
the
paper
that
you
have
before
you
hear
it's
a
paper
that
has
been
informed
by
the
executive
members
and
it
you've
got
the
summary
there
that
sets
out
the
working
together
just
to
start
right
at
the
beginning.
E
At
point
two
point
at
2.10
I
raised
with
the
lscp
executive
in
july
2021
that
I
was
not
assured
about
the
notification
systems
and
leads-
and
this
was
on
the
basis
of
discussions
in
relation
to
a
case
that
we're
not
discussing
here
today.
However,
I
would
like
to
point
out
that
there
was
a
disagreement
with
respect
to
a
case
in
terms
of
is
this
serious
harm?
Is
it
not
serious
harm?
Two
partners
believed
very
strongly
that
it
was
based
on
evidence
to
the
review
advisory
group.
E
E
E
I
raised
that
with
the
executive
board
in
that,
on
the
basis
of
this
particular
case.
That
was
pertinent.
I
was
no
longer
assured
about
the
notification
systems
and
processes
and
there
was
a
need
to
review
them,
so
that
review
is
still
happening,
and
we
haven't
got
this
here
with
you
today.
We
can
discuss
that
later.
If
you
want
to
ask
questions
about
that,
but
what
it
raised
was
the
pertinent
question
about
partnership.
E
Actually
I
mean
we
are
only
moving
forward
together
in
terms
of
partnership
where
partners
in
this
space
clearly
are
very
open
and
transparent
in
their
conversations
in
the
interests
of
children,
and
we
are
going
to
have
challenging
conversations
without
a
doubt.
You
know-
and
we
might
not
always
agree-
and
that's
understandable
too
in
this
space,
but
where
we
do
not
agree,
it's
vital
that
does
that
does
not
impact
on
outcomes
for
children.
That's
that's!
That's
the
key
nub
of
this
conversation
for
me,
so
the
local
authority
had
the
duty
to
notify
and
what
is
clear.
E
We
I'm
assured
within
the
review
advisory
group
meeting.
The
partnerships
are
having
the
conversations
we
have
an
interim
process
now,
where
those
conversations
are
getting
stronger
absolutely.
But
what
needs
to
be?
What
I
need
to
be
assured
about
is
that
all
three
partners,
their
professional
opinions,
whether
something
meets
the
criteria
for
serious
harm,
is
being
valued.
E
If
the
local
authorities
say
no,
we
do
not
believe
it
meets
that
criteria.
Then
it's
not
notified
now.
I
know
my
partners
will
say
that
what's
really
important
here
is
learning
and
absolutely
learning
is
important.
But
what
a
notification
allows
you
to
do
is
rapid
learning,
immediate
rapid
learning
gather
the
facts.
E
I
am
disappointed
that
we
haven't
come
here
with
the
consensus
I
have
to
say
there
are
three
options
there,
which
my
colleagues
will
talk
to
you
about,
and
I
really
strongly
feel,
even
though
the
national
directive
is
such
that
the
local
authority
have
a
duty
to
notify
it's
really
important
to
work
in
the
spirit
of
working
together
and
what
fundamentally
underpins
that,
as
we've
heard
today
with
ofsted,
is
partnership
and
valuing
the
views
of
all
partners,
not
one.
E
So
that's
the
paper,
so
I
I
don't
know
if
you
want
me
to
speak
through
that
other
than
to
say
we
have
option
one
option:
two
option:
three:
there
we're
working
in
the
way
we've
been
working
before
there
is.
You
know
there
isn't
the
agreement,
although
there
is
a
preference
for
option
two
from
the
executive.
I'm
not
gonna
speak
on
their
behalf
and
you
will
hear
an
independent
legal
sorry.
You
will
hear
a
local
authority
legal
view
today,
but
what
we
don't
have
is
an
independent
legal
opinion.
A
Okay,
thank
you
justfinder.
With
regard
to
your
opening
comments
about
sam,
I'm
appalled
to
to
hear
that
it's
probably
not
something
to
expand
on
here,
but
certainly
something
that
concerns
me
deeply
and
I'll
be
taking
up
outside
the
meeting.
But
I
wonder
if,
if
chief
representative,
miller
and
ms
harding,
if
you
want
to
try
any
opening
comments
as
well,
please.
O
Yes,
chair,
I
think
it's
clear
with
the
the
the
point
with
regards
to
the
paper
that
an
agreement
wasn't
reached
amongst
the
partnerships
and
as
a
public
servant.
O
My
duty
is
to
protect
the
public
and
at
the
time
I
did
require
a
written
rationale
with
regards
to
that
decision-making
process
taken
at
the
time,
and
that
has
taken
some
time
to
actually
come
to
me
with
regards
to
that
which
I
I
wasn't
particularly
pleased
with,
and
I
also
at
the
time
didn't
agree
with
the
rationale
when
it
came
through.
Finally,
I
think,
what's
really
clear
in
relation
to
where
we've
reached
with
the
review
as
a
partnership
is
we've
all
committed
to
the
review
we've
all
put
resourcing
into
that
review.
O
Yes,
it
is
being
led
by
west
yorkshire
police
with
the
detective
inspector
that
I've
placed
in
there.
However,
the
local
authority
health
have
all
put
resource
into
that,
and
I
and
I
think
some
of
the
challenges
that
we
have
in
relation
to
moving
this
forward
is
actually
the
legislation
and
I
don't
think
there
is
a
any
disagreement
that
the
duty
does
fall
to
the
local
authority
to
notify.
O
I
think
where
the
disagreement
does
come
is
with
regards
to
the
decision
making
prior
to
that
notification
and-
and
we
have
had
the
the
the
legal
advice.
I've
also
taken
legal
advice
from
west
yorkshire
police
as
well,
that
that
legal
advice
is
they
don't
see
that
there
is
an
issue
with
regards
to
that
decision-making
being
taken
by
the
executive
prior
to
the
duty.
O
As
long
as
the
duty
to
notify
remains
with
the
local
authority
and
I
think
to
move
that
point
forward,
we
will
have
to
seek
independent
legal
advice
because
we
do
want
to
get
to
a
decision,
a
unanimous
decision
with
regards
to
how
to
move
the
referral
process
forward
at
this
moment
in
time.
A
Thank
you.
Is
it
okay
to
call
you
joe
yeah,
joe.
I
Thank
you,
so
the
position
with
health
is
that
we
absolutely
do
accept
that
it's
the
view
of
the
local
authority
legal
advice
that
option
two
is
not
a
legal
option,
but
we
note
from
additional
information
and
advice
that
there
is
no
provision,
specifically
within
the
legislation
or
guidance
to
allow
partners
to
challenge
or
scrutinize
the
local
authority
decision.
I
Three,
in
our
view,
will
require
the
local
authority
to
provide
a
detailed
and
robust
rationale
as
to
why
they
disagree
with
experienced
partners.
They
would
be
solely
accountable
for
their
decision
not
to
notify.
However,
as
a
public
body,
they
could
be
open
to
challenge
via
the
judicial
review
process.
I
I
think
we
again
it's
it's
the
part
of
the
process
and
we
have
reviewed
a
process
as
we
put
in
the
paper.
We
are
operating
an
entering
process
at
the
moment
pending
the
review
outcomes,
but
it
is
being
able
to
understand,
be
open,
transparent
and
respect
the
professional
judgments
of
a
range
of
statutory
partners,
and
our
preference
would
be
that
we
could
reach
a
unanimous
decision
about
the
notification
process.
A
J
Yes,
excuse
me:
yes
gladly
counselor
lam,
and
it
is
briefly
mentioned
at
the
outset
of
the
the
report
at
paragraph
2.2,
where
it
reads
that
the
duty
to
notify
events
to
the
panel
rests
with
the
local
authority
and
that's
the
wording
that's
taken
out
of
the
statutory
guidance
working
together,
2018.
J
and
it
the
statutory
guidance
supports
and
underpins
the
legislative
framework,
which
is
the
children
act
2004
and
it's
within
the
children
act
2004
that
sets
out
that
the
function
to
notify
to
make
that
notification
to
the
child,
to
the
child.
Safeguarding
practice
review
panel,
which
you
might
commonly
hear
referred
to
as
the
national
panel,
and
it's
that
piece
of
legislation
that
confers
the
function
of
making
a
notification
upon
the
local
authority.
J
And
my
advice
has
been
that
this
function
is
a
duty
rather
than
a
power.
So
it's
something
that
is
mandatory
and
in
exercising
this
function,
a
local
authority
is
required
to
determine
whether
a
case
meets
the
statutory
criteria
or
not,
and
that
statutory
criteria
is
contained
within
section
16c
of
the
children
act
and
therefore,
in
order
to
be
able
to
determine
that
statutory
criteria,
the
local
authority
is
being
asked
to
make
a
decision.
J
J
Local
authorities
are
not
permitted
in
law
to
delegate
their
functions
to
other
bodies
unless
specifically
provided
for
in
other
statutes.
So,
therefore,
if
the
local
authority
were
to
share
this
function
or
delegate
it
to
other
bodies,
they
would
be
working
outside
that
legislative
framework
and
and,
in
my
view,
would
therefore
be
unlawful
to
follow
option
two.
J
A
Yeah,
thank
you.
Thank
you
for
that
and
yeah.
I
may
have
some
questions
to
come
back
to
on
that,
because,
to
my
mind,
it
all
made
perfect
sense
until
the
last
bit,
where
I
don't
see
how
it's
unlawful
or
illegal
for
the
director
to
take
into
strong
accounts,
the
views
of
the
the
partners
and
I'm
not
quite
sure
the
conclusion
warrants
what
you
I,
I
don't
speak
as
a
lawyer,
so
just
as
a
lay
person's
view
that
it
didn't
quite
get
there
for
me.
J
I'm
grateful
for
that
council
lam
and
I
do
apologize
if
I'm
not
setting
myself
out
very
clearly
but
option.
J
This
isn't
an
appropriate
notification,
or
indeed
the
same
for
police,
but
by
asking
the
partners
to
take
a
vote
on
whether
or
not
the
function
should
be
exercised.
It's
that
element
that
I
don't
think
is
lawful,
because
I
don't
believe
that
the
local
authority
can
delegate
its
functions
and
in
particular
this
function
in
that
way,.
A
Okay,
thank
you
for
that.
So
I
think
what
one
thing
is
important
for
for
me
to
say
this
point.
Since
we
last
discussed
this,
I
have
been
briefed
in
detail
privately
on
the
case
that
led
to
this
and
I'm
conscious.
I've
got
the
benefits
of
that
knowledge
and
everybody
else
around
the
table
doesn't
have
that.
A
I
think
one
of
the
recommendations
will
be
that
when
the
report
is
finalized,
it
comes
back
to
this
board
and
I
think
it
will
be
important
that
we
find
a
way
to
anonymize
that
case,
because
I
think
it's
crucial
for
for
members
to
really
understand
how
we
got
to
this
point
and
how
we
go
forward
and
it's
not
appropriate
to
talk
about
it
or
share
details
today,
but
I
think
it
is
something
that
will
be
important
that
we
find
find
a
way
to
do
that
so
sal
is
there
anything
you
wanted
to
to
come
in
on
before
we
go
into
questions
comments.
L
Not
a
lot,
I
mean,
I
think,
that
you've
heard
the
situation
set
out
and
the
legal
advice
that
I've
been
given
and
I'd
like
to
stick
within
the
law.
I
am
where
I
can.
In
terms
of
exercising
my
duties,
I
would
say
that
there
has
been
significant
amount
of
progress
in
the
work
that's
been
undertaken
around.
L
Around
this
issue,
there
weren't
processes
in
place
previously
that
are
now
in
terms
of
interim
arrangements
that
we've
got
in
place
and
we've
moved
forward
to
a
position
where
we've
got
a
number
of
options
to
consider.
We
do
have
time
set
aside
to
meet
with
members
of
the
national
panel
to
help
us
take
this
forward
further.
So
it
would
be
my
hope
that
we
can
reach
that
consensus
as
we
go
through
those
conversations
and
finalize
the
report
and
recommendations
to
the
board.
A
Okay,
thank
you.
So
I've
got
a
number
of
indications
for
for
questions
to
start
with
so
celia.
First,
please.
D
Thank
you,
chad,
a
couple
of
points.
I
just
wondered
how
frequently
this
lack
of
consensus
arises
in
deciding
in
the
notification
process
and
also
in
paragraph
211.
D
It
makes
the
point
that
other,
although
you've
looked
at
how
other
lscps
in
the
country
manage
the
decision-making
when
there's
no
consensus
but
that's
not
expanded
on,
I
just
wondered
what
you'd
learnt
from
that.
N
Yeah,
I
think
I
think
it's
really
important
to
say
that
actually
we
have
considered
16
cases
and
it's
only
in
two
cases
where
we
have
not
been
able
to
reach
agreement.
N
I
think
you
know,
as
has
already
been
said,
we
do
now
have
a
process
in
place,
which
is
a
really
open
and
transparent
process.
When
the
local
authority
is
considering
a
notification,
I
contact
the
independent
chair.
I
make
contact
with
the
lscp
business
unit.
They
then
contact
all
partners.
N
They
give
partners
the
detail
of
the
case.
They
ask
partners
to
share
all
relevant
information
more
recently,
we're
developing
that
further
and
we've
been
able
to
actually
come
together
to
meet,
to
discuss
and
talk
about
the
information
which
is
available
to
us.
You
know
my
experience
of
working
in
leeds
and
working
within
that
partnership
is
that
it
is
a
respectful
partnership
that
we
do
listen
to
each
other,
that
we
acknowledge
each
other's
professional
expertise
and
experience
and
that
they
are
robust,
challenging
conversations,
as
you
would
expect
them
to
be.
N
I
think
in
the
point
in
relation
to
the
learning,
I
think
that
is
also
really
key,
because
we
need
to
remember
that
the
whole
point
of
a
notification
and
the
notification
process
and
the
change
at
a
national
level
was
to
create
a
system
where
we
could
get
that
learning,
and
I
acknowledge
I
recognize
the
point
about
rapid
learning,
but
actually
that's
within
our
gift.
Within
the
partnership,
we
can
define
that
learning.
We
can
agree
what
that
learning
process
may
be.
N
I
think
it's
really
important
to
highlight
that
in
the
two
cases
where
there
was
a
disagreement,
the
local
authority
was
very
very
clear
that
there
were
opportunities
for
learning
and
that
there
should
be
a
learning
process
initiated,
and
I
think
that's
really
important.
So
whilst
we
didn't
agree
on
the
notification,
we
absolutely
agreed
as
a
partnership
that
there
was
learning
to
be
had,
and
we
have
now
initiated
those
learning
processes.
A
Okay,
thank
you.
Just
before
I
bring
jazz
vindra.
One
thing
that
was
remiss
of
me
not
to
bring
out
in
the
introduction
as
well
was
since
we
last
met
the
the
case
in
question
which
wasn't
notified
has
retrospectively
been
notified
and,
to
my
mind,
I
I
haven't
seen
the
rationale
for
why
it
wasn't
notified.
A
Nor
have
I
seen
the
rationale
for
why
it
subsequently
was
notified,
but
I
think
it's
important
that
people
are
aware
of
that
as
well.
So
if
I
can
bring
in
just
vinder,
please.
E
Thank
you
chair.
I've
tried
to
do
it
point
by
point.
I
think,
to
go
to
sal's
point
in
the
past
there
was
no
process,
so
we
won't.
We
don't
have
an
idea
of
how
many
cases
were
considered
for
the
notification
or
not.
That
is
in
the
scope
of
the
review.
E
So
you
know
we
need
to
consider
that,
within
the
review
with
respect
to
the
process
now
being
in
place,
I
have
to
say
needs
to
be
tested
that
process
will
have
to
be
tested.
I
appreciate
we
have
an
interim
process
and
I'm
pleased
about
that,
but
it
is
still
being
tested
in
terms
of
is
it
its
effectiveness?
E
So
you
know
that
that
has
to
be
noted
there.
With
respect
to
the
review.
I
think
you
made
the
point
there
about
review
in
terms
of
benchmarking.
I
think
I
think
it
might
be
pertinent
for
me
to
just
give
you
an
update,
then
at
this
point,
because-
and
please
forgive
me
executive,
because
I'm
mindful
of
the
fact
that
I
haven't
given
you
an
update,
the
review,
we
had
a
review
meeting
with
a
draft
interim
report
with
executive
board
and
one
of
the
outcomes
of
that
meeting.
E
So
there
are
a
number
of
things
and
I
I'm
again
they
forgive
me
executive
board
members
here
I
haven't
updated
yet
because
we've
just
had
that
meeting-
and
I
just
went
through
the
report
yesterday,
so
my
executive
board
will
receive
an
update
with
regards
to
phase
two
of
that
review,
and
I
am
calling
it
that,
because
there
is
more
work
to
be
done
on
that
with
respect
to
yes,
it
is
a
retrospective
notification
now,
but
one
of
the
things
that
I'm
still
not
clear
about-
and
I
think
in
the
interest
of
mutual
respect
of
all
partners,
because
some
partners
did
feel
that
their
opinions
of
professional
opinions
were
not
being
valued
and
respected.
E
They
did
feel
that
they
were
very
clear
about
that
to
me
and
in
the
meeting
that
if
this
was
a
finally
balanced
decision
at
the
time
not
to
notify
and
then
there's
a
decision,
there's
a
decision
to
retrospectively
notify
I'm
still
not
clear
on
the
rationale
and
what
has
changed?
Is
the
local
authority
now
saying
that
they're
reflected
they
now
understand
that
this
is
this?
This
is
serious
harm
because
the
rationale
doesn't
tell
me
that-
and
you
know
it's
really
important
from
for
me
as
I'll
speak
as
an
individual.
E
I
respect
those
who
can
be
honest
when
they
may
get
it
wrong.
Integrity
is
everything.
This
is
how
we
learn.
This
is
part
of
the
learning,
and
I'm
still
not
clear
about
that.
I
have
to
say-
and
I'm
not
sure
whether
the
exact
members
have
a
view
on
that,
with
respect
to
learning
a
big
part
of
the
review
talks
about
learning,
we
haven't
achieved
the
answer
to
this
question
and
this
will
be
the
next
phase.
E
Learning
is
absolutely
critical,
because
that's
what
we're
here
for
in
terms
of
the
differences
we
make
in
terms
of
safeguarding
children,
young
people,
but
what
we
need
to
be
absolutely
sure
about
and
there's
a
lot
more
work
to
be
done
in
this
space
is
how
are
we
assured
that
we
can
evidence?
Something
has
changed
as
a
result
of
that
learning
and
we're
not
there
and
that's
the
work
that
we
need
to
be
doing.
N
So
really,
when
considering
whether
something
is
significant
harm,
we
really
have
to
look
at
the
detail
of
each
individual
case
and
in
making
that
decision
around
significant
harm.
We
need
to
be
able
to
justify
that
state
intervention,
and
that
is
professional
judgment.
It
comes
down
to
professional
judgment
which
can
be
difficult.
It
can
be
very,
very
complex
in
leeds
we
can
have
up
to
150
children
who
are
subject
of
care
proceedings.
So
are
they
they're
before
the
court,
because
the
threshold
for
significant
harm
has
been
met?
N
I
think
it's
also
really
important
to
say
that
the
national
panel
themselves,
in
their
annual
report
in
21,
talked
about
the
that
making
these
decisions
is
not
always
straightforward.
It
can
be
very,
very
complex.
You
know
some
cases
the
decision
making
can
be
come
to
you
know
in
a
more
straightforward
way.
N
You
know
where,
tragically,
you
may
have
the
death
of
a
child
or
a
life-changing
and
impairment,
but
it
does
come
down
to
professional
judgment,
and
sometimes,
in
my
experience
it's
not
a
right,
it's
not
a
wrong,
it
can
be
very
great
and
it
can
be
very
very
complex.
N
Significant
harm
is
obviously
very,
very
serious,
but
serious
harm
is
more
serious,
so
it's
the
gravest
of
incidents
that
would
be
referred
to
the
national
panel,
and
I
just
think
it's
important
just
to
try
and
highlight
some
of
the
complexity
that
we
have
in
making
these
decisions,
and
I
think
again
to
highlight
that.
Actually,
despite
the
complexity,
we
have
reached
a
consensus
in
the
majority
of
the
16
cases
that
we've
discussed
there's
been
two
when
we
have
failed
to
disagree
and
the
legal
advice
that
we
have
and
that
we
must
follow.
N
A
Okay,
thank
you
councillor
bethel,
please.
C
Thanks
chair,
I
wasn't
expecting
to
be
called
on
so
quickly.
Firstly,
thanks
very
much
for
bringing
the
update.
I
wasn't
here
for
the
original
discussion.
It
does
seem
from
what
I've
read.
Obviously,
a
really
important
piece
of
work
and
really
important
review,
especially
on
the
back
of
ofsted,
saying
how
effective
our
safeguarding
is
and
with
the
proviso
of
it's
not
perfect,
and
we
want
it
to
be
as
good
as
it
can
be.
So
I'm
really
pleased,
but.
C
I
guess
it
almost
feels
like
it's
just
a
bit
early
to
be
back
in
the
sense
that
we
haven't
got
independent
legal
advice
in
here
we
haven't
finished
the
review.
The
main
workshop
hasn't
been
done
in
order
to
pick
the
options
or
to
discuss
the
options.
C
There's
that
much
that
currently,
as
a
scrutiny
board,
we
can
really
add-
and
the
only
question
I
do
have
actually
is
on
the
concept
of
option
two,
and
I
guess,
if
my
concern
is
that
if
we
have
a
situation
where
the
local
authority
wants
to
notify
and
the
partners
don't
option,
two
would
suggest
that
a
vote
would
be
taken
and
if
the
partners
don't
want
to
notify,
then
that
would
tie
the
hands
of
the
local
authority
on
notification
when
it's
us
that
would
be
in
trouble
for
not
notifying
and
that
I
have
to
be
honest,
sounds
like
a
terrible
idea.
C
So
yeah
can
I
just
get
a
little
bit
of
clarification
on
that.
Thank
you.
J
Thank
you
counselor
and
excuse
me.
I
think
that
probably
is
the
nub
of
it,
really
that
this
is
a
local
authority
function.
J
A
I
think
just
to
pick
up
on
a
couple
of
those
points
council
bethel,
so
we
committed
to
come
back
to
this
meeting
some
time
ago
and
invited
the
guests
to
come,
which
is
why
I
didn't
want
to
the
expectation:
was
the
review
would
be
complete
by
the
end
of
march
and
so
we'd
have
had
sight
of
it
by
now,
it
felt
to
me
in
discussion
with
all
the
people
involved,
that
it
was
the
right
thing
to
get
an
update,
and
actually
it
would
be
helpful
in
moving
the
discussions
forward
to
have
the
input
of
scrutiny.
A
And
my
other
point
is
the
comment
you
just
made.
It
hits
the
number
of
the
issue
that
I
agree
with
you.
If
you
had
a
situation
where
the
two,
the
health
and
the
police
partner
disagreed
with
the
local
authority
and
if
we
didn't
notify
that
sounds
like
a
terrible
idea.
My
point
would
be.
It
sounds
an
equally
terrible
idea
if
the
situation's
reversed-
and
that's
really,
why
we're
we're
sat
here.
So
it
does
come
to
the
nub
of
the
issue.
A
There's
legalities
to
get
through
as
to
how
you
get
there,
but
that's
it.
How
how
do
we
deal
with
the
disagreement
and
when
two
strong,
important,
valued
partners
are
sat
around
the
table
and
have
a
very
strong
view?
That's
the
question:
what
is
it
a
good
thing
that
that's
then
discounted
and
disagreed
with.
C
A
But,
as
I
said
in
my
first
poem,
it's
not
for
us
to
have
a
back
and
forth,
but
I
think
the
the
consent
where
there
is
a
consensus
is
that
having
this
discussion
will
help
to
move
things
forward,
because
there
isn't
an
agreement
in
how
to
move
forward.
That's
why
we
haven't
got
a
complete
report,
not
because
there's
still
work
to
do,
but
really
it's
because
the
partners
still
can't
agree
on.
What's
the
best
way
to
to
deal
with
this.
That's
why
we're
here-
and
hopefully
this
discussion
can-
can
help
that
julie.
N
Yeah,
I
suppose
I
just
wanted
to
highlight:
option
three
and
because
option
three
is
is
an
option
that
the
local
authority
has
suggested
and
I
think
in
suggesting
option
three.
I
think
the
local
authority
is
acutely
aware
of
the
views
of
partners
and
the
views
that
we
have
heard
today
and
that
we've
heard
in
our
previous
discussions.
N
I
think
in
option
three
we're
setting
out
really
clearly
that
where
there
is
a
disagreement
and
again
I
have
to
stress
that
this
has
been
in
the
minority
of
cases
that
we
would
be
absolutely
transparent
about
that
that
we
would
share
that
with
the
national
panel.
We
would
share
that
with
scrutiny.
N
We
would
share
it
with
the
lead
member
that
we
would
agree
to
undertaking
a
learning
the
lessons
process
in
those
cases
where
we
disagree
and
actually
that
there
may
be
occasion
going
forward-
and
maybe
this
is
the
lesson
you
know-
learning
the
lessons
of
the
last
12
months,
whereby,
where
the
strength
of
feeling
was
so
strong
and
if
it
is
a
very
finely
balanced
decision
that
the
local
authority
may
decide
to
make
a
notification.
A
Thank
you.
Can
I
sorry
rebecca
you
wanted
to
come
back.
J
That
is
most
definitely
the
ethos
of
working
together
and
the
legislation
and
the
local
authority
must
give
the
partners
views
considerable
weight,
and
so
I
wouldn't
want
the
board
to
think
that
the
local
authority
does
not
have
a
duty
to
do
that
and
that
it
can
just
discount
the
partners
of
the
views
of
the
partners
that
they
departed.
It
cannot.
A
Thank
you,
council
stevenson.
Please.
H
Thank
you,
chad.
I
have
quite
a
few
questions.
Given
the
severity
of
it,
I'm
gonna
try
and
break
into
two
parts
how
we
got
here
and
the
legal
side
afterwards,
but
first
I'd
just
like
to
ask
jasmine,
because
I
didn't
get
the
chance
earlier
in
the
last
item.
Councillor
venna
referenced
that
in
conversation
with
ofsted,
they
had
an
open
and
transparent
conversation
about
the
review
notification
and
the
issues
that
were
being
discussed.
H
So,
were
you
brought
into
that
discussion
and
did
austin?
Ask
you
any
questions
about
as
the
independent
chair
what
your
views
were
of
the
process.
E
Thank
you,
councillor
stevenson.
I
wasn't
invited
by
the
local
authority
or
by
offset
to
any
meetings
or
any
discussions
in
relation
to
the
whole
ofsted
inspection
or
in
particular,
on
this
issue.
H
Oh
okay,
I
think
it's
worth
remembering.
Then
that
often
came,
I
think,
a
couple
of
days
after
we
had
our
initial
scrutiny
that
was
covered
nationally
as
well.
So
there's
a
concern
for
me
both
there
in
terms
of
what
we
just
heard
in
terms
of
the
local
authorities,
discussions
with
ofsted,
but
also
a
concern
I
think
for
me,
in
terms
of
which
is
not
one
for
us,
but
often
themselves.
H
What
are
they
looking
at
when
they
come
to
inform
their
decision
making,
because
it
just
seems-
and
I've
been
through
plenty
of
ofsted
inspections
in
schools,
and
it
just
seems
ludicrous
to
me
that
when
something
has
been
so
public-
and
you
are
looking
at
something
and
having
discussions,
you
wouldn't
ask
the
independent
chair,
who
is
actually
looking
at
this
and
and
and
the
panel
that
have
led
to
this
this
decision.
So
there's
probably
some
learning
seems
to
be
the
phrase
of
the
day
and
there's
certainly
some
learning
there.
H
I
think,
in
terms
of
this
issue,
I
think
it's
important
to
go
back
to
why
why
we're
here-
and
it
is
important
that
I
think,
when
the
independent
child
safeguarding
review
of
the
specific
case
that
got
us
here,
which
is
now
being
referred
to
as
child
air,
when
that
is
complete.
I
do
think
it's
very
important
that
the
whole
board
gets
an
anonymized,
a
version
of
that,
because
we
are
all
sat
here
today,
talking
about
an
issue
and
hearing
about
an
issue
that
the
majority
around
this
table
do
not
know
the
severity
of.
H
So
you
have
just
been
told
by
julian
and
rebecca
the
difference
between
significant
and
serious
harm.
If
you
had
in
front
of
you
the
details
of
that
case,
I
believe
quite
strongly
you
would
you
would
find
it
astonishing
to
think
that
anybody
would
argue
that
that
case
was
not
serious
harm
as
written
down
in
in
law.
H
So
I
asked
previously
about
the
retrospective
notification,
so
you
weren't
at
the
last
panel,
but
at
that
point
it
hadn't
been
made,
and
we've
just
heard
it's
now
being
made
so
at
the
original
scrutiny
board
in
february.
I
think
it
was
the
executive
member
and
directors
argued
quite
robustly
in
our
questioning
across
across
the
board
that
the
specific
case
of
child
a
was
not
serious
harm
and
that
the
notification
should
not
have
been
made.
It
had
been
reviewed
and
that
decision
remained
that
the
local
authority
didn't
want
to
review.
M
M
The
scrutiny
board
that
we
had
was
in
the
week
before
they
arrived
on
site.
So
it's
in
the
week
that
they
were
gathering
data,
and
it
was
in
that
week
that
they
had
their
individual
meeting
with
me
and
their
individual
meeting
with
tom
on
their
setup
meeting
with
sal,
and
we
were
very
open
with
them
about
the
discussion.
I
also
referred
to
the
scrutiny
board.
It
was
in
the
public
domain.
If
they
chose
to,
they
could
have
watched
it
online,
whether
they
did
or
not.
M
I
don't
know
because
it
is
up
to
them
and
not
the
local
authority,
what
information
they
seek
out
and
also
who
they
speak
to
even
when
they're
meeting
our
social
workers
we
don't
put
forward
which
social
workers
we
want
them
to
see.
They
decide
which
social
workers
are
going
to
see
based
on
which
cases
they
are
looking
at,
because
it's
very
much
about
cases
and,
as
I
said,
they
looked
at
around
500.
M
The
inspector
said
if
there,
if
there
are
any
problems
with
any
aspect
of
safeguarding
children
needs,
we
will
find
them
in
the
cases
and
just
to
be
really
really
clear.
They
did
not
find
significant
concerns
about
safeguarding
children
in
leeds.
In
fact,
they
gave
us
an
outstanding
ofsted
report
based
on
the
fact
that
we
have
strong,
effective
social
work.
We
have
strong
partnerships,
we
have
a
culture
of
learning
and
I
just
wanted
to
be
really
clear
with
this
board.
Just
so
people
just
have
the,
I
suppose,
the
understanding.
This
is
a.
M
This
is
technical
discussion
about
whose
decision
it
is
to
notify
the
national
panel
in
the
case
of
serious
harm,
it's
not
about
whether
children
are
safe
or
not.
Ofsted
gave
us
a
very
clean
bill
on
that
after
a
thorough
inspection,
but
it
is
their
decision
and
not
the
local
authorities,
what
information
they
seek
out
who
they
talk
to
and
what
their
data
they
look
at.
Thank
you.
N
Yeah,
I
am
minded
in
the
cover
report
for
this
item,
that,
at
in
terms
of
the
legal
implications
at
point
a
it
does
say,
given
the
legal
restrictions,
it
will
not
be
appropriate
for
there
to
be
any
discussion
of
individual
cases
which
fall
within
the
notification
arrangements.
N
So
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
that
we
have.
The
local
authority
have
made
a
retrospective
notification
in
that
case
and
that
the
the
rationale
for
that
has
been
shared
with
partners
and
partners
have
that
rationale.
H
Well,
I
I
disagree
because
we
discussed
last
time
and
the
the
crux
of
this
issue
is
that
every
at
every
step,
along
the
way,
there
isn't
a
willingness
to
share
information.
That's
what
we've
basically
heard
across
across
the
board.
H
So
if,
if,
if
we're
not
going
to
go
into
the
situation
now,
even
though
even
anonymized
can
I
therefore
ask
the
executive
members
of
the
safeguarding
panel,
whether
they
have
been
given
the
rationale
for
why
the
local
authority
has
changed
its
mind
on
the
case
that
got
us
to
hear
and
whether
you
understand
the
reason
why
in
february
you
were
told
there
shouldn't
be
a
notification
and
now
what's
changed
to
where
we
are
today.
O
I
can
confirm
that
the
rationale
has
been
shared
with
us
as
executive
members.
That's
in
two
parts,
one
the
rationale
for
why
they,
they
didn't
feel
it
meant
the
criteria
for
serious
harm
at
the
time
and
then
the
rationale
for
why
it
has
since
been
referred.
I
think
I
mentioned
it
right
at
the
start
of
my
my
introduction
that
I
didn't
agree
with
the
rationale
and
I'm
still
not
clear
why
it
has
been
subsequently
changed
and
referred.
Even
with
the
information
that's
been
been
provided
at
this
stage.
I
Just
to
add
to
that
I
would
agree
with
the
with
the
position
statement
from
damien
there.
I
think
it
was
just
it
was
disappointing
how
long
it
took
to
get
the
rationale
from
the
local
authority,
and
I
am
still
I
remain
unclear
as
to
the
the
detail
of
the
rationale.
E
Thank
you
chair.
I
would
like
to
share
that
view
and
also
just
to
make
the
point
joe,
if
I
may,
that
it
is
in
my
opinion,
I
don't
think
this
is
a
discussion
just
about
notification.
You
know,
for
me
this
is
about
how
we
work
as
partners
and
it's
about
culture
as
well.
E
As
an
independent
chair,
I'm
working
working
together,
I
have
absolute
respect
for
the
working
together
in
the
spirit
of
partnership
working.
It
is
incredibly
important
that
all
professional
views
are
considered
at
that
table
and
this
was
the
case
and
we
do
have
to
refer
to
this
case,
not
in
light
of.
Obviously
I
don't
want
to
refer
to
it
in
terms
of
what
it's
about,
but
this
is
the
case
in
point
that
I
reflected
on
and
brought
forward
my
concerns
on,
and
so
this
is
not
just
about
the
duty.
This
is
about
partnership.
B
N
We
do
have
a
meeting
planned
as
we
have
referred
with,
annie
hudson
from
the
national
panel
and
with
three
national
safeguarding
reform
facilitators.
So
there
is
a
safeguarding
facilitator
for
health,
for
police
and
for
the
local
authority,
and
it's
a
shame
in
some
ways
that
we
haven't
had
the
opportunity
to
have
that
meeting
before
attending
scrutiny.
Today,
because
I
think
we
are
all
really
clear,
as
an
exec
and
as
a
rag
group
that
we
want
to
use
that
opportunity
to
really
explore.
H
Okay,
I
want
to
move
on
to
the
legal
side.
Now:
that's
okay,
chair,
okay,
yeah,
because
actually
that
conversation
has
highlighted
the
crux
of
the
issue
for
me
in
that,
if,
if
we
track
back
to
february,
had
the
police
partner
not
raised
a
concern
with
the
independent
chair
who
about
a
specific
case?
H
H
If
none
of
that
had
happened,
then
a
case
which
has
now
been
referred
retrospectively
for
notification
would
not
have
been
retrospectively
notified.
It
would
have
been
left
where
it
was
because
the
local
authority
decision
stood
and
we
heard
at
previous
panels.
There
are
a
number
of
cases
in
which
the
independent
partners
have
a
concern
about.
H
So
when
we
think
about
the
specific
cases
we've
heard
about-
and
we've
come
to
the
legal
point,
the
dispute
that
I
have
with
the
the
council's
legal
advice-
we've
heard
and
I'd
be
interested
to
hear
superintendent
miller's,
develop
on
the
independent
legal
advice
that
he
saw,
and
I've
had
far
too
many
conversations
with
lawyers
about
this.
This
as
well,
and
the
rebuttal
I
would
put
to
rebecca
and
the
question
is
nobody's
asking
for
the
local
authority
to
give
up
its
duty.
H
H
That
would
be
entirely
within
the
law,
because
you
are
still
making
the
referral.
It's
still
your
duty.
The
difference
is
how
you
get
to
that
decision
and,
if
you
think
about
when
we
as
elected
members,
are
in
the
council
chamber,
for
example,
if
we
all
voted
by
majority
for
something
to
happen,
then
the
council
has
a
duty
to
enact
that
because
we
voted
for
it.
H
The
council
has
the
duty,
but
the
reason
the
way
they've
got
to
that
is
by
democratic
means
by
a
majority
of
us
and
nobody's
asking
for
a
scenario
where
the
health
partner
makes
the
referral
and
carries
the
duty
or
the
police
partner.
Everybody
from
what
I've
heard
today
is
asking
that
the
the
local
authority
retains
the
duty.
H
It's
just
that
you
have
a
vote
beforehand
to
get
the
majority
view
and
go
with
it
and
when
you
look
look
at
step
back
and
look
at
it,
and
this
is
where
the
bits
about
opening
up
any
avenue
for
a
cover-up
comes,
I
simply
cannot
understand
when
we're
talking
about
safeguarding
and
those
who
have
done.
Safeguarding
training
are
always
told,
don't
take
the
risks,
never
take
a
risk.
H
I
can't
understand
the
scenario
where
the
partners
around
the
table
say.
We
think
this
is
serious
harm
and
the
local
authorities
say
well.
We
don't
think
it
isn't
what
so
we're
gonna
it
might
be
grey,
but
we're
gonna
take
the
judgment
and
say
no.
When
we've
already
seen
before
us
today,
the
local
authorities
admitted
they've
made
an
error
because
they've
made
a
retrospective
notification.
H
That's
a
valid
point.
But
if
you
look
at
the
letter
of
the
law,
what
the
law
is
asking
for,
you
in
the
children's
of
the
local
authorities
and
children's
act
is
that
if
a
criteria
is
met,
then
by
law,
you
must
make
that
notification.
It's
a
positive
decision.
You
must
make
to
notify
if
certain
criteria
in
the
children's
act
is
met.
H
The
only
disagreement
is
whether
the
serious
harm
threshold
of
the
criteria
was
met
and
if,
if
three
partners
around
the
table
say
it
has,
and
the
local
authorities
say
it
hasn't,
I
simply
cannot
understand
why
we
would
die
on
a
hill
to
argue
that
we
won't
notify
when
the
balance
of
risk
is
get
it
notified,
because
there
may
be
national
significance
in
it.
So,
on
the
legal
point,
can
I
ask
rebecca?
J
Thanks
councillor
and
just
starting
off
with
your
finishing
point
about
the
panel
making
its
decision,
I
have
to
go
back
to
the
act.
16
c
of
the
children
act
2004,
which
places
the
duty
to
notify
on
the
local
authority.
I
don't
believe
that
that
is
an
administrative
duty.
I
don't
believe
that
there
is
anything
in
the
legislation
that
suggests
that
the
local
authority
is
just
simply
informing
the
national
panel
that
there
has
been
a
serious
incident
in
the
area.
J
J
In
doing
so,
it
will
involve
the
partners
and,
as
has
been
referred
to
this
meeting
today,
there
is
now
in
place
a
process
whereby
not
just
partners
at
different
levels
of
their
organizations,
but
the
rag
that
is
the
review
advisory
group
of
the
lsep
and
the
lscp's
executive
can
be
formally
involved
in
informing
the
local
authorities
decision.
So,
in
short,
councillor
stevenson,
I
I
remain
of
the
view
that
it
is
the
local
authority's
function.
J
It
is
their
duty
and
they
are
the
decision
maker
and
therefore
they
can't
delegate
that
function
to
another
body,
and
in
addition
to
that,
that
is
what
it
said
in
the
in
working
together.
It
says
that
the
duty
rests
with
the
local
authority
and,
in
addition,
the
information
and
feedback
received
from
the
national
panel
is
that
it
is
the
local
authority's
duty.
Not
only
is
it
its
duty,
but
it's
also
its
decision.
O
Yeah,
I
suppose
I
put
a
caveat
on
the
start
that
independent
is
from
west
yorkshire
police.
So
at
the
time
that
obviously
rebecca
gave
the
guidance
I
I
did
state
to
the
executive
that
I
did
disagree
and
would
look
to
seek
guidance
from
west
yorkshire,
police
and
that
has
been
shared
with
the
executive
prior
to
our
last
meeting
as
well.
O
So
if
I
just
pull
a
couple
of
points
out
with
with
regards
to
what's
being
fed
back
to
me,
despite
the
above,
in
my
view
this
this
does
not
mean
a
decision
to
make.
A
referral
must
be
made
by
the
local
authority
in
isolation
of
the
other.
Safeguarding
leads.
The
duty
to
notify
must
be
balanced
against
the
ethos
of
working
together,
which
encourages
partners
to
work,
collaboratively,
share
information,
knowledge
practices
and
experience
for
the
purposes
of
safeguarding.
J
Thank
you
ever
so
much
and
and
yes,
I
was
very
grateful
to
to
read
this
advice
as
well
from
the
force,
solicitor
and
I'd
just
also
like
to
reinforce
page
three
of
the
advice.
It
does
say
in
there
that
there
is
no
provision
to
delegate
this
duty
on
another
public
body,
not
any
reference
as
to
how
the
local
authority
should
make
a
final
decision
in
respect
of
the
referral
process.
J
As
the
legislation
places
the
duty
to
notify
on
the
local
authority,
they
would
be
solely
accountable
for
the
decision.
I
do
not
believe
that
this
matter
is
in
contention
and
I'd
just
like
to
reinforce
that.
That
is,
I
suppose,
the
complexities
around
this
case
around
this
situation,
that
my
view
and
I
would
say
that
the
legal
advice
from
the
police
concurs
with
that
is
that
it
is
the
local
authority's
duty
to
notify
and
that
they
are
solely
accountable
for
the
decision.
J
So
therefore,
that's
why
I
can't
advise
that
a
situation
whereby
they
have
a
voting
process
to
reach
a
decision
can
be
a
lawful
one.
F
Thank
you
very
much
thanks
everyone
for
really
well
considered,
and
thank
you
for
your
patience
in
explaining
to
us
a
bunch
of
non-lawyers.
What's
going
on
a
few
things
of
well
as
I've
been
waiting
to
speak
have
actually
come
up.
F
I'm
concerned
that
some
members
of
this
board
have
had
details
of
this
of
the
case
that
that
we
ought
to
understand,
triggered
this
review,
seemingly
detailed
explanations
of
of
the
of
the
case
and
the
outcomes
and
what
happened
to
the
child
in
question.
F
If
the,
if
the
concerns
from
the
chair
of
the
partnership
began
back
in
summer
2021,
and
it's
so
crucial
to
our
understanding
of
this,
why
was
it
not
brought
to
the
first
meeting
for
is
an
anonymised
form?
Why
has
it
not
been
provided
to
this
meeting
to
as
an
anonymous
form?
I'm
concerned
that
the
discussion
is
straying
into
one
about
a
specific
case
and
not
the
underpinning
mechanism
that
we
are
here
to
review
and
discuss
I'd
just
like
to
make
that
point.
F
It's
a
shame
that
partners
on
this
specific
area
have
taken
two
disagreements
out
of
16
as
an
indication
of
disrespect
to
their
expertise
and
good
office,
and
it's
a
failure
of
the
partnership,
and
I
think,
what's
come
out
really
clear
in
all
of
the
legal
advice
and
all
of
the
legal
commentary
that
we've
had
is
that
we
can't
take
a
decision
about
these
options
because
one
of
them
contradicts
the
legislation.
F
Not
only
is
that
also
not
the
role
of
the
scrutiny
board
to
make
that
decision,
it's
not
got
a
place
in
legislation,
so,
what's
clearly
come
through.
Is
that
partners
disagree
with
each
other
on
the
matter,
which
is
the
delay
to
the
report?
F
Also,
though
key
to
it
is
that
partners
disagree,
that
the
national
legislation,
the
position
about
legal
duty
and
final
decision
notification,
and
that's
something
that
applies
across
the
country.
So
it's
been
made
legally
clear
to
us
that
we
can't
take
a
decision
here
about
the
options
presented.
F
So
what
do
partners
feel
is
their
route
forward
in
working
on
that
legislation
at
a
national
level
to
reach
a
position
that
they
believe
will
start
to
satisfy.
All
of
these
concerns
both
in
leeds
and
local
authorities
around
the
country
and
have
you
sought
any
conference
with
other
local
authorities
about
this.
A
Okay,
so
I
think
the
first
challenge
was
directed
to
me
about
why,
which
is
fair
enough?
No,
it's
perfectly
valid,
so
I
wanted
members
to
have
sight
of
the
case
prior
to
the
first
meeting
that
we
had.
The
legal
advice
was
that
that
wasn't
appropriate,
which
is
why
we
went
into
a
very
brief
private
session.
I
still
think
it
would
be
of
benefit
to
everybody.
A
That's
why
I
said
at
the
outset
that
when
it
comes
back
with
the
final
report,
it's
really
important
that
all
members
do
have
an
anonymized
site
of
that,
so
that
we
can
properly,
I
think,
we're
being
as
careful
as
we
can
not
to
make
it
about
a
specific
case
at
one
of
the
points,
I
think
yes
there's
two
out
of
16
case
where
there's
been
disagreement,
I
think
one
of
the
points
chas
vinders
made
on
both
occasions
is
that's
16,
that
they
know
about
that's
16
cases
that
were
brought
to
the
panel.
F
Just
just
to
be
very
clear
about
my
point,
I
don't
think
it's
appropriate
that
we
get
the
details
of
that
case.
I
think
this
is
about
the
mechanism.
I
think
that
has
been
made
clear
to
us
by
our
officers
and
by
the
police
and
partnership
and
health
and
safeguarding
partnerships,
that
this
is
the
most
severe
that
we
can
imagine
and
that's
why
we're
here
now
so
just
to
clarify
my
position
in
my
asking
of
that
question.
A
Okay,
well,
that's
noted!
Is
it
on
the
same
that
very
point
councilor
marshall
katong
before
because
well,
if
I
get
the
responses
on
the
other
points
and
then
I'll
bring,
I
don't
know
who
wanted
to
respond
from
the
executive
to
council
online.
There's
other
challenges
as
to
yeah.
E
I
think
the
first
thing
to
say
is
that
I
I
am
not
suggesting
at
all
anyway,
it's
a
failure
of
the
partnership,
I'm
not
suggesting
that
at
all,
there
is
a
more
effective
way
of
working,
and
sometimes
it
can
take
one
case
that
changes,
a
culture
and
an
institution.
Stephen
lawrence
proved
that
I
know
it's
not
on
the
same
scale.
But
who
knows
for
me.
E
It's
important
that
we
are
very
open
and
transparent
and
able
to
have
those
conversations,
and
I
think
this
case
gives
us
that
opportunity
not
just
on
a
local
level
but
but
maybe
on
a
national
level
to
shift
things
and
change
things,
and
I
wouldn't
go
to
my
executive
lightly
to
say.
I
wasn't
assured.
E
The
local
authority
do
receive
hundreds
of
cases,
but
when
I
hear
in
a
meeting
language
that,
if
we
were
to
inform
you
all
of
all
the
cases
of
children
that
are
removed
and
know
to
notify
the
more
we
would
swamp
the
system,
I'm
concerned
now.
I've
not
talked
about
the
detail
in
that,
but
we
are
talking
about
very
vulnerable
children.
E
Now,
if
we
don't
agree
as
a
partnership,
what
constitutes
serious
harm
and
if
going
back
to
counselor
stevenson's
point,
we
we're
not
aware
of
these
cases
of
serious
harm
and,
interestingly
enough,
we
have
to
ensure
that
all
partners,
not
just
the
local
authority,
but
our
police
and
health
partners,
are
able
to
escalate
their
concerns
for
us
to
consider
cases
that
they
deem
to
be
serious,
which
is
what
happened
here.
The
police
raised
the
otherwise
we
wouldn't
know
about
it.
E
E
It
enables
us
to
change
things
and,
in
my
opinion,
this
case
requires
that
attention
and
I
would
wholeheartedly
hope
that
in
due
course
in
the
future
that
you
will
have
a
an
anonymised
copy
of
that
case,
because
it
is
very
difficult,
I
feel
almost
as
if
there's
an
elephant
in
the
room-
you're
not
fully
informed
on
that.
But
there
are
people
in
this
room
that
are.
I
can
assure
you
of
that.
I
don't
know
if
that
is
helpful,
but
this
is
the
view.
L
Can
I
just
come
in
on
on
the
point
about
knowledge
of
the
circumstances
of
cases
that
happen
on
a
on
a
daily
basis,
because
when
when
there
are
situations
that
arise
where
there
is
significant
harm,
either
determined
to
be
significant
harm
or
there
being
a
risk
of
significant
harm,
then
there
is
a
strategy
discussion
that
takes
place
between
the
three
agencies,
so
whoever,
wherever
those
circumstances
emerge
from
or
whether
it's
a
referral
from
a
member
of
the
public.
L
Often
it's
a
call
that
comes
through
from
the
police
or
a
referral
from
one
of
our
partner
agencies.
Those
circumstances
of
significant
harm
are
discussed
on
a
daily
basis
through
a
strategy
discussion,
and
so
the
awareness
of
the
incidents
that
are
taking
place
is
across
the
partnership
at
the
point
where
they
happen.
L
So
there's
not
a
it's,
not
a
that's,
not
a
mechanism
for
being
able
to.
You
know,
there's
a
clear
mechanism
there
that
says
these
happen.
We
have
the
discussion
between
professionals
and
therefore,
if
there's
a
need
for
escalation,
it
can
be
escalated
through
any
of
the
agencies.
Just
to
be
clear
on
that.
E
Chair,
I
may
add
that
the
review
that
is
taking
place
in
terms
of
phase
two
and
discussions
at
the
moment,
one
of
the
clear
recommendations
is
also
to
look
at
the
escalation
processes
and
the
use
of
the
escalation
processes
and
the
confidence
of
practitioners
and
how
all
partners
are
using
that
process.
And
what
does
it
look
like
in
each
agency
and
are
we
assured
those
processes
are
being
used,
so
that
is
something
that
will
be
looked
at
within
our
review
process.
Sorry,
our
review.
A
N
N
You
know
and
the
way
in
which
we
try
to
navigate
through
these
complex
discussions.
So
as
an
example,
you
know
for
me
to
say
that
it
would
not
be
the
national
panels
expectation
that
we
would
notify
them
of
every
child
in
the
city
who
has
suffered
significant.
Now
that
could
sound
very
heartless
that
could
sound
people
could
really
question
how
I
could
possibly
make
that
statement.
N
But
that
is
the
case.
Parliament
has
drawn
a
distinction
between
serious
harm
and
significant
harm,
and
it
is
our
responsibility
and
it's
a
heavy
responsibility
to
make
those
professional
judgments
and
decisions,
and
absolutely
we
could
not
do
that
without
our
partners
across
this
city.
As
sal
has
said,
the
first,
the
first
step
in
that
process
is
a
strategy
discussion
which
involves
police
health
other,
where
we
have
a
discussion
where
we
think
that
a
child
may
have
or
is
likely
to
suffer
significant
harm.
N
You
know
judgment
and
respect
when
we're
having
these
discussions,
because
we
will
disagree,
and
I
think
we've
talked
about
culture-
I'm
going
to
go
back
to
the
first
item,
which
was
about
a
restorative
culture
in
leeds
and
that
high
support
and
high
challenge,
and
one
of
the
things
that
we
are
very
aware
of
is
that
where
we
can
focus
and
where
we
do
focus
on
those
relationships
and
that
culture,
when
we
do
have
to
have
those
difficult
discussions,
they
are
made
all
the
more
easier.
N
So
I'm
really
again,
I'm
looking
forward
to
the
conversation
that
we
are
going
to
have
the
open,
transparent
conversation
with
annie
hudson
as
chair
of
the
national
panel
with
the
three
safeguarding
reform
facilitators,
so
that
we
as
a
partnership,
can
continue
our
discussion
in
an
open
and
transparent
way.
And
I
would
come
back
to
the
fact
that
in
the
two
cases
where
there
was
a
disagreement,
there
was
a
clear
agreement
that
there
was
learning
and
that
there
should
be
a
learning
the
lessons
process
and
they
are
both
underway.
F
Yeah,
just
if
there's
any
answer
about
the
question
about
the
national
picture
about
and
about
how,
if
the
legislation
does
not
and
does
not
serve
to
provide
confidence
to
the
panel,
what
what
campaign
or
what?
What
communication
would
happen
in
terms
of
a
national
picture
that
would
be
able
to
to
give
you
the
confidence
that
the
legislation
supports,
hearing
and
taking
into
account
the
very
important
views
of
all
partners
and
have
you
spoken
to
any
local
authorities
apart
from
leads.
O
I
think,
as
part
of
the
review,
the
review
process,
we
have
spoken
to
other
local
authorities,
there
hasn't
been
much
information.
That's
come
back
from
other
local
authorities
if
I'm
perfectly
honest
and
there's
a
point
that
jazz
vinder
made
clear
within
one
of
her
updates
as
well.
The
central
safeguarding
governance
unit
within
west
yorkshire
police
is
the
matter
that
I've
raised
with
them.
So
they
will
look
at
that.
O
Taking
that
nationally,
with
obviously,
as
julie's
mentioned,
got
the
national
board
coming
out
next
week
as
well
to
discuss
and
it's
a
point
that
we
keep
on
making.
I
think
from
my
own
personal
experience
with
legislation
when
legislation
is
drafted.
Sometimes
it's
not
completely
clear
and
it
takes
stated
cases
for
that
legislation
to
become
clear.
So,
certainly
for
me,
within
my
background
of
public
order,
you
use
those
thirty
cases
when
you're
making
your
decision-making
process,
it
makes
life
a
little
bit
easier.
O
However,
in
in
this
I
I
do
not
see
an
issue
because
we
can
be
lawfully
audacious
in
with
regards
to
how
we
make
that
decision
making
process,
because
certainly
within
the
legislation,
there's
nothing
within
the
legislation
which
suggests
that
you
can
make
a
retrospective
notification.
But
we
have
done
so
it's
okay
on
that
occasion.
But
on
this
occasion,
when
we're
looking
at
that
collective
decision-making,
the
legislation
says
no,
so
I
think
yeah
it
could
be
clearer,
but
we
are
where
we
are
and
we
just
need
to
move
forward
as
a
partnership.
B
B
B
B
B
I
think
it's
quite
I
don't
know
the
details
of
this
case.
I
don't
know
if
I
want
to
know
the
details
of
this
case,
but
what
I
want
to
know
is
why,
in
actual
fact,
we
take
a
chance
that
we
might
be
making
a
wrong
decision
when
we've
got
the
opportunity
to
make
a
right
decision,
even
if
that,
when
it
goes
to
the
local
authority,
when
it
goes
to
the
national
body,
they
turn
around.
And
they
say,
there's
really
no
case
to
answer
better.
N
Yeah,
I
suppose
what
I
would
like
to
say
is
option
three,
that
the
local
authority
has
now
proposed
does
take
into
account
the
learning
that
we
have
experienced
as
a
partnership
over
the
last
12
months,
and
I
think
you
know
the
three
elements
to
option
three
in
terms
of
where,
where
a
case
is
very,
very
finely
balanced
or
where,
where
and
where
the
other
two
partners
are
of
a
view
that
we
should
notify
that
we
are
saying
that
there
is
provision
for
us
to
notify.
N
So
for
me
you
know
that
is
evidence
actually
of
a
learning
culture
and
the
fact
that
we
have
all
of
us,
I
think,
have
learned
over
the
last
12
months.
I
also
think
the
other
option,
the
other
element
of
option.
Three,
where
we're
saying
you
know,
we
can't
make
it
a
blanket
approach,
because
we
cannot.
You
know
our
legal
advice
is
that
that
would
be
unlawful.
N
However,
what
we
have
stated
very
clearly
is
that,
where
we
do
and
again
it
is
in
the
minority
of
cases,
disagree
and
where
the
local
authority
may
maintain
its
decision
not
to
notify
that
we
will
have
that
transparency
and
that
we
would
make
the
national
chance
panel
aware
we'd
make
the
chair
of
scrutiny,
aware
we'd
make
the
lead
member
for
children
away
and
that
we
would
always
always
in
the
instances
and
occasions
where
we
disagree
have
are
learning
the
lessons.
The
whole
purpose
of
the
notification
being
are
learning
the
lessons.
N
A
C
Thanks
chair,
I
stand
by
the
fact
that
I
feel
like
this
is
probably
too
premature,
but
in
the
interests
of
I've
asked
for
that
assistance.
C
C
C
If
it
thinks
it
should
nominate
and
the
majority
say
they
shouldn't,
and
I
guess
vice
versa.
The
other
way
so
before
we
take
this
review
anywhere
else,
it
feels
really
important
that
my
comments
on
it
would
be.
C
Can
we
make
sure
that
whatever
options
we're
putting
out,
there
are
what
actually
we
want
from
those
options,
because
this
isn't
what
anyone's
actually
arguing
for
as
I'm
listening
around
the
table
and
taking
that
further
taking
at
national
doing
et
cetera
may
end
up
not
getting
us
the
best
results
for
this
process
that
obviously
we'd
all
be
looking
for.
Thank
you.
O
Yeah
it's
as
I
went
through
the
the
legal
advice.
The
legal
advice
that
has
been
provided
to
me
is
that
the
the
she
doesn't
see
that
being
an
issue
with
it.
Apart
from
the
point
that
obviously
rebecca
reyes,
which
isn't
the
start
of
that,
but
then
she
goes
on
to
give
her
opinion
further
down
the
document,
I
think
just
to
be
clear,
as
well
as
a
partner
as
an
executive
member.
O
I
am
asking
for
option
two,
because
I
think
it's
the
fairest
way
to
bring
the
evidence
to
the
table
to
present
the
evidence
in
each
single
case
and
then,
where
there
isn't
an
agreement
that
is
reached
that
then
there
is
a
vote
that
is
undertaken
by
the
independent
chair
at
this
moment
in
time.
We
talk
about
this
case
being
filing
balanced.
It
wasn't
finally
balanced
far
from,
and
I
think
that's
why
I'm
here
today
and
why
I
believe
so
strongly
in
relation
to
option
two
being
the
only
credible
option.
C
Just
a
further
point,
then:
what
is
the
view
of
the
police
lawyers
around
our
solicitors
around?
If
we
were
to
take
options?
Well,
not
we
I'm!
I
don't
get
to
make
the
decision,
but
if
somebody
was
to
take
option
two,
what
would
their
feelings
be
on
the
police
opening
themselves
up
to
challenge
based
on
the
fact
they're
taking
on
a
statutory
duty
that
isn't
theirs
to
take
on.
O
I
think
it's
clear
within
the
legal
advice,
what
we're
not
asking
for
is
the
duty
to
notify
it's
the
decision-making
process
prior
to
that-
and
I
think
this
is
where
there
is
the
disagreement
between
the
police
advice
and
the
local
authority
advice
we're
not
in
disagreement.
It
is
a
local
authority's
duty
to
notify
where
we
disagree
is,
is
the
decision-making
prior
to
that
and
how
we
reach
that
decision.
With
regards
to
the
evidence
that
is
provided
by
all
partners,
which
is
part
of
that
sharing
of
information
and
intelligence,
which
is
key
to
working
together.
C
C
Therefore
thinking
that
the
notification
process
is
basically
the
paper
exercise
of
sending
it
in,
and
I
it's
difficult
it's
difficult
because
it
feels
like
a
statutory
duty
is
always
more
than
a
paper
exercise
and
actually
I
think
it's
a
little
bit
worrying
if
we
were
to
boil
something
so
important
down
to
being
a
paper
exercise
like
in
any
legislation
when
a
duty
is
given
to
any
organization,
it's
really
remiss
of
any
organization
to
put
that
down
as
a
paper
as
a
paper
exercise.
C
C
Now
I'm
also
happy
to
be
corrected
if
I've
misunderstood
that
by
our
legal
representatives,
but
they
seem
inherently
tied
together
and
if
we
want
the
decisions
to
be
spread,
then
we
have
to
as
partners
understand
that
that
means
the
potential
fallout
from
those
decisions
also
falls
on
partners,
and
I
just
wanted
to
check
that
the
partners
were
happy
with
that.
As
a
thing.
O
Yeah,
so
just
just
to
be
really
clear
what
it
says
under
section
16
sees
the
local
authorities
have
a
duty
to
notify
the
national
child
safeguarding
practice
review
panel
and
the
safeguarding
partners
within
five
working
days.
If
it
knows
the
suspects
that
a
child
has
been
abused
or
neglected
and
the
child
dies
or
is
seriously
harmed,
and
it's
that
seriously
harm
bit
that
we're
talking
about.
O
So
for
me,
it's
the
duty
to
notify
it's,
not
the
decision-making
process
and,
as
I
was
really
clear,
within
the
executive
meeting
because
as
it
currently
stands,
it
is
sal's
decision,
and
I
respect
that
decision
and
that's
why
I
asked
for
a
written
rationale
to
justify
his
decision-making
process,
because
when
I
make
decisions,
I
have
to
rationale
immediately.
J
Thank
you
very
much.
Sorry,
thank
you
very
much,
councillor
lam
and
I
think
what
councilman
has
just
said
in
relation
to
that
accountability
that
is
potentially
being
taken
on
by
the
police
and
health
in
advising
the
partnership,
I'm
thinking
about
the
local
authorities,
position
and
thinking
about
police.
J
I'm
thinking
about
health
also-
and
I
have
advised
them
previously-
that
of
course
taking
on
that
responsibility,
which
is
not
theirs
in
law,
could
may
have
governance,
legal
insurance
issues
for
them
also,
and
so
I
would,
I
think,
perhaps
just
reiterating
I'm
sorry
if
I
do
sound
like
a
broken
record,
that
I
still
think
in
order
to
be
able
to
exercise
that
duty.
You
have
to
make
a
decision
that
has
been
endorsed
by
the
national
panel
and
even
if
it
were
just
a
decision
to
press
the
button
to
send
an
email
to
the
national
panel.
A
N
Yeah,
I
just
wanted
to
advise
as
well
that
the
national
panel
have
been
asked
about
this
issue
and
they've
emailed
the
the
partnership
to
say
that,
in
their
view,
the
decision
to
notify
by
the
the
duty
to
notify
by
the
local
authority
equates
and
means
that
the
dcs
has
the
director
of
children's
services
has
the
decision
to
make
and
that's
their
advice.
C
Thank
you
very
much
and
thank
you
to
all
all
of
you
and
what
you've
presented
this
afternoon.
My
concern
here,
which
is
very
similar
to
the
same
concern
I
had
in
the
first
meeting.
C
I've
heard
a
lot
of
words
from
transparency,
openness
and
a
lot
of
what
I've
heard
today
is
all
about
process
and
as
a
board
member
on
scrutiny,
I
am
still
very
uncomfortable
to
see
and
scrutinize
an
issue
where
we
do
not
have
the
full
information
you
did
say
earlier
on
that.
You
are
aware
of
that,
and
this
is
the
second
time
we're
sitting
down
and
coming
to
discuss
this
agenda
and
as
board
members,
we
still
do
not
have
the
full
information
to
scrutinize.
C
C
We
need
full
information
for
us
to
be
able
to
scrutinize,
as
we
are
a
scrutiny
board
and
please
chair.
We
really
need
that
information.
We
shouldn't
be
bringing
issues
where
your
members
do
not
have
all
the
information
they
need
to
make
decisions
and
that's
where
I've
got
a
problem
and
I
feel
we've
been
unfairly
treated
as
members
without
full
information
about
this
agenda.
Thank
you.
A
Okay,
well,
I
know
the
challenge.
Counselor,
marshall
catholic-
I
don't
agree
with
it.
I
think
you've
got
as
much
information
as
I've
been
put
in
a
position
that
can
be
shared
with
you
as
possible.
It
was
an
agreement
of
this
board
collectively
last
time
that
we
would
have
this
item
this
time
and
it's
part
of
a
process.
The
information
arrives
as
with
every
scrutiny,
inquiry
and
investigation
step
by
step
through
each
session
that
we
do
that's
the
process.
A
We
don't
always
have
it's
very
rare
that
we
have
all
of
the
information
for
every
session
and,
as
we
said
at
the
outset,
the
anticipation
was
that
we'd
have
the
full
report
at
this
stage.
My
view
and
the
view
of
all
of
the
partners
around
the
table
was
it
was
absolutely
the
right
thing
and
they
wanted
to
come
today
to
give
us
an
update,
which
is
why
we're
here
having
the
session.
So
I
note
your
comments,
but
I'm
sorry
on
this
occasion
I
don't
agree
with
you
I'll
bring
in
that
chaz
vinda.
A
E
Chet,
I
just
wanted
to
add
the
comments
about
annie,
hudson's
view
with
respect
to
the
position
of
the
local
authority.
I've
been
talking
with,
annie
hudson
since
july
last
year,
and
we
had
a
session
with
annie
hudson
as
an
executive
board
and
other
members
of
the
rag
on
the
23rd
of
august
2021.
E
Andy
hudson
was
very
clear.
My
notes
were
in
front
of
me
here
that
you,
as
a
partnership,
have
to
decide
a
notification
as
a
partnership,
whether
what
is
before
you
is
more
serious,
as
the
system
hasn't
picked
it
up
or
it
meets
the
criteria
you
as
a
partnership,
have
to
have
that
conversation,
and
you
have
to
have
regard
for
all
professional
opinions,
and
I
just
want
to
be
very
clear
that
when
annie
hudson
does
come
to
the
session,
we've
got
the
facilitated
workshop.
E
She
has
emailed
me
to
be
very
clear
that
she
will
not
be
answering
that
question
with
respect
to
where
we
find
ourselves
today
to
just
to
be
clear
about
that.
But
we
will
that
discussion
will
help
us
to
facilitate
what
we're
saying,
and
I
just
feel
that
it's
important
that
I
to
note
that
annie.
Hudson
recognizes
the
challenge,
but
she
takes
us
back
to
partnership,
working
the
strength
of
partnership,
working
the
strength
of
taking
on
board
all
views,
etc.
E
I
have
listened
to
the
education
minister
to
as
a
colleague
has
left
now
with
respect
to
this,
not
the
position
of
leaves
but
a
national
position.
You
know,
where
does
this
sit
within
the
children's
act
in
this
duty,
because
and
annie
is
aware
of
that,
and
she
asked
me
to
copy
her
into
that
email
which
I
did
because
this
is
about
serious
harm
to
children
and
as
having
an
agreement
as
partners.
E
What
do
we
understand
as
a
partner
in
terms
of
what
is
put
before
us
and
agreeing-
and
I
agree
with
the
colleague
over
there
councillor
in
terms
of
if
you're
not
sure
refer
it?
What
the
national
panel
will
do
is
send
it
back
if
they
don't
think
it
warrants
a
notification.
That's
what
they'll
do
so.
I
I
I
think
it
goes
back
to
my
point
again.
This
is
about
the
spirit
of
partnership,
working
and
all
partners
being
heard
and
and
this
case-
and
it
can
take
one
case
to
change
the
national
picture.
E
E
E
A
Okay,
thank
you
see
later,
please.
D
Thank
you,
okay.
Looking
back
at
the
notes
I
made
when
this
first
came
to
scrutiny
board.
D
This
particular
process
is
the
result
of
a
review
of
what
happened
before,
because
that
system,
which
I
believe
took
all
three
partners,
had
the
same
weight
was
not
working,
so
they've
changed
the
system
perhaps,
and-
and
I
just
think
I
I
am
concerned
that
this
is
going
to
have
an
adverse
effect
on
the
efficacy
of
the
partnership
work
it.
I
just
feel
it's.
It
can't
be
a
positive
process
at
the
moment,
and
but
it
seems
to
hang
on
weak
legislation
or
inconvenient
legislation.
D
Now
you
didn't
decide
that
we
didn't
decide
that
somewhere,
it
was
decided
and
and
these
independent
legal
opinions,
once
the
local
authority
runs
the
police
and
that's
not
exactly
independent
in.
In
my
point
of
view,
what
about
you
know
one
of
the
nearly
said
idiots
but
they're,
not
all
who
divides
the
legislation
asking
one
of
their
lawyers,
what
you
know
what
they
think
about
it
and
how
it
should
be
interpreted
because
it
it's
it's.
D
It's
a
mechanism,
that's
at
fault
here,
not
not
the
well-meaning
work
of
the
partners,
not
the
professionalism,
not
the
expertise,
it's
the
mechanism
and
I'm
afraid
it's
all.
D
Sorts
of
things
have
been
brought
into
this
that
I
question
that
there
shouldn't
have
been
broad
doubt
has
been
cast
on
on
things:
there's
been
assumptions,
speculation
and
also-
and
it
I
just
find
it
very,
very
negative
and
as
such
and
helpful-
and
I
I
really
think
actually
discussing
this
before
we've
got
to
the
next
stage
before
you've
even
had
this
meeting
is,
is
well,
it
seems
less
than
satisfying,
and
I
would
rather
we
discussed
well.
Rather,
we
didn't
have
to
discuss
it,
but
I'd.
D
Rather
we
had
a
full
report
because
there
seems
to
be
you
know,
speculation,
the
assumptions
and
a
lot
of
it
is
being
said
in
ignorance
and
really
I
don't
want
to
see
the
report
of
the
child
in
question,
because
I
don't
think
it's
about
it's
affected
that
child
and
it
will.
It
affects
lots
of
children,
but
it's
a
mechanism
problem.
A
Okay,
thank
you
celia,
but
helen
next,
please.
A
Thank
you,
councillor
stevenson.
You
had
another
point.
H
Yeah,
I
think
a
question
then
sort
of
summing
up
comment.
That's
okay!
The
question.
First
of
all,
councillor
bennett
during
when
these
meetings
take
place
in
terms
of
deciding
whether
referrals
are
made
or
not.
Are
you
involved
in
that
as
an
executive
member,
were
you
involved
in
the
cases
that
brought
the
the
original
case
here
to
start
with.
M
I'm
not,
I
don't
sit
on
the
rag
which
makes
the
decision
no.
I
did
sit
on
the
lead,
safeguarding
execute
the
the
safeguarding
executive
group
for
a
period
of
time,
which
was
when
we
were
in
the
transition
as
a
result
of
the
wood
review.
I
sat
on
that
group
to
support
the
development
of
the
new
structures,
but
I
don't
sit
on
the
rad
group.
M
However,
the
previous
safeguarding
chef
children,
dr
mark
pale,
asked
me
to
sit
on
the
board
sit
on
the
executive
group
when
it
was
in
a
state
of
transition
when
we
were
beginning
to
implement
the
outcome
of
the
wood
review,
and
we
were
also
in
the
process
of
bringing
together
the
former
lead,
safeguarding
children's
partnership
on
the
children
and
families
trust
board.
We
were
also
transitioning
it
transitioning
in
another
way,
because
during
that
period,
in
a
short
space
of
time,
the
dcs,
the
safeguarding
chair
and
the
chief
superintendent
all
changed.
M
So
there
was
only
myself
and
joe
that
were
continuously
involved,
so
I
was
involved
with
the
group.
While
we
developed
new
structures,
we
developed
the
lead
safeguarding
children's
partnership,
which
I
co-chair
with
justin.
We
also
developed
the
meeting
that
happens
twice
a
year.
That's
a
wider
group,
including
the
third
sector,
which
I
also
co-chair.
M
All
of
that
was
very
delayed
by
kovid,
so
I
ended
up
being
on
the
safeguarding
executive
from
the
summer
of
2019.
When
I
just
come
into
this
role
until
february
of
this
year-
and
I
came
off
the
executive
group
at
that
point
because
it
was
having
had
this
discussion
with
them
with
sal
and
jasvinder
in
particular,
it's
not
a
requirement
that
my
post
sits
on
the
executive
group.
It
doesn't
usually-
and
we
had
at
that
point-
embedded
the
new
structures
and
the
safeguarding
partnership
was
established.
M
H
M
I'm
not
a
st.
I
wasn't
statutorily
required
to
be
there
in
the
way
that
the
three
main
partners
are,
but
I
was
an
active
participant.
Yes,
when
I
was
in
those
meetings.
E
Just
for
a
point
of
clarity,
the
rag
group
makes
a
recommendation
that
recommendation
goes
to
the
executive
board.
It
is
a
matter
for
the
executive
board
to
approve
a
recommendation
or
not
so,
in
my
my
opinion,
the
process
not
in
an
opinion,
it's
the
process.
The
decision
is
made
by
the
executive
board
and
this
particular
case.
I
took
it
to
the
board
of
december
2021,
in
which
all
board
members
were
present,
including
council
of
eners.
So,
just
as
a
point
of
clarity,
the
rag
gives
a
recommendation
to
the
executive
board.
H
So
thank
you
for
that.
Both
in
terms
of
I
think,
there's
a
recommendation
to
be
made
here.
Looking
at
the
report,
that's
come
to
us
it's
still
in
its
journey,
so
there's
a
stage
for
scrutiny
which
we've
just
been
found
to
have
been
outstanding
in
our
robust
scrutiny
to
feed
into
that.
H
Hopefully,
before
you
finalize
it,
and
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
when
you
do
robust
challenge,
sometimes
it's
not
easy
easy
to
hear
and-
and
I
should
add
that
you
know
julie,
sal,
rebecca
I've
had
conversations
with
throughout
in
in
a
role
outside
of
scrutiny,
and
you
know
I
do
appreciate
that
the
time
you've
given
of
the
answers
today-
and
I
know
that
they
are-
it
can
appear
at
times
emotional
and
nobody's
questioning
your
judgment
and
commitment
to
that.
H
But
we
have
a
job
to
do
with
a
scrutiny
to
challenge
and
provide
that
challenge
in
a
robust
way.
I
could
have
said
myself.
I
never
learned
I
should
have
saved
a
lot
of
time
by
not
speaking
just
letting
tony
speak,
because
he
summed
up,
I
think
perfectly
the
problem
before
in
terms
of
that
that
risk
between.
H
So
I
think,
as
a
recommendation
as
the
review
goes
on
it
from
others
feedback,
it's
clearly
going
to
be
helpful
to
have,
as
celia
mentioned,
some
proper,
independent
legal
advice
and
and
again
I
value
rebecca's
input
from
the
local
authority
side
and
nowhere
questioning
her
expertise,
but
she's
not
independent.
Neither
are
the
police's
solicitors.
H
I
think
it's
important
to
have
a
view
on
that
as
we
move
forward,
so
that
when
the
review
takes
place
and
it's
really
important
to
understand
what
way
be
what
what
we
ask
of
the
lawyers,
because
there's
been
a
lot
of
confusion
today,
some
of
it
probably
focused
in
areas
to
detract
from
others.
H
H
That's
the
point
that
we
need
an
independent
legal
view
to
say:
if
there
is
a
process
of
a
vote
and
then
the
local
authority
carries
out
that
duty
would
that
be
unlawful
and
the
way
around
the
scenario
that
council
of
bishop
painted
would
probably
be
recognizing
that
in
latin
statute
the
duty
lands
with
a
local
authority
the
compromise
position.
It
would
probably
be
sensible
to
say
that
the
lock,
where
the
local
authority
deems
that
a
notification
should
be
made.
H
Then
a
verse
is
hard
and
the
local
authority
would
carry
it
forward
as
the
person
the
authority
that
holds
the
duty
because,
as
turning
quite
rightly
outlined
with
safeguarding
children,
you
never
take
risks
and
it's
not
finally
balanced.
It's
not
finally
balanced,
because
the
decision
that
you
had
clearly
the
local
authority
were
in
the
minority.
So
it
wasn't,
it
wasn't
fine
when
you've
got
two
or
three
partners
around
saying
it.
H
So
that's
the
first
recommendation
I
would
put,
and
the
second
is,
I
do
think,
there's
guidance
needed
around
legislation
and
I
think
I
wonder
whether
it
is
our
role
as
a
scrutiny
board
to
to
write
to
ministers
and
say
we
have
a
problem
here.
We've
looked
at
and
we
think
one
of
two
things
needs
to
happen.
Either.
H
What
what
could
be
interpreted
is
when
there's
a
lot
of
talk
about
judgement.
It's
all
about
judgment,
professional
judgment
when
one
out
of
three
or
four
partners,
two
three
partners
ultimately
say
well,
my
judgment's
worth
more
than
yours,
because
I've
got
the
duty
so
we're
going
to
ignore
yours
and
do
it
our
way?
That's
not
finely
balanced,
and
I
know
that
wasn't
the
intention,
but
evidently
that's
what
has
been
heard
loud
and
clear
by
what
we've
heard
from
the
the
board.
H
So
I
think
there
are
two
reasonable
recommendations
there
that
that
I
think
capture
the
views
across
across
the
board
today
in
what
would
be
a
way
forward
as
they
complete
the
review
to
consider
proper,
independent
legal
view
and
perhaps
was
writing
to
to
the
department
of
education
around
clearing
up
legislation,
issues.
M
Yeah,
I
don't
I
I
don't
disagree
with
the
two
recommendations
council
stevenson's
put
forward.
I
just
felt
that
I
needed
to
be
really
clear
in
my
role
that
at
the
moment
the
council
cannot
accept
recommendation
to,
and
I'm
saying
that
my
role
is
the
only
executive
board
position
apart
from
the
leader.
That's
a
requirement
in
law,
it's
in
the
children's
act
that
you
have
to
have
an
executive
board
member
for
children's
services.
M
So
in
a
politically
led
organization,
I
am
the
political
leader
for
children's,
and
I'm
saying
it
in
that
role
that
the
council
is
not
agreeing
to
option
two,
because
the
legal
view
of
of
the
council
lawyer
is
that
it's
not
lawful,
she's
put
forward
a
very
clear
view
that
it's
out
it's
our
role
to
make
the
decision
and
to
notify
and
that
we
cannot
delegate
or
share
that
duty.
M
I
want
to
be
really
clear,
though,
and
I
think
julie's
read
this
point
as
well,
that
and
rebecca
that
doesn't
mean
you
don't
take
the
views
of
the
partners
into
account
and
it's
very
important
to
us
that
we
have
a
respectful
relationship
with
our
partners
where
people
feel
listened
to.
But
there
are
times
when
we
will
disagree
and
in
this
situation
we've
disagreed
just
twice
and
as
the
law
stands
at
the
moment,
in
our
view
it
is
our
decision
at
that
point
to
make
to
make
the
notification
or
not.
M
So
I
just
wanted
to
give
that
clarity
really
that
the
council
can't
endorse
option
two
as
it
is
at
the
moment,
but
I
I
hear
the
recommendation
that
we
take
independent
legal
advice
on
that.
I'd
also
remind
you
of
the
point:
julie
made
that
option
three
has
been
put
forward
by
the
local
authority
as
a
way
of
widening
out
that
discussion,
referring
disagreements
to
the
national
panel.
M
Obviously
we
do
have
the
meeting
on
the
16th
of
may
I'm
saying
we
I
won't
be
at
it,
but
it's
obviously
hope
that
that
will
help
us
to
move
forward
yeah
and
I
think,
I'd
sort
of
want
to
want
to
reassure
people
that
this
is
when
I
said
earlier,
this
is
a
technical
discussion.
M
What
I
meant
was
I
wanted
to
convey
to
the
board
that
it
is
a
discussion
about
a
process,
it's
not
about
whether
children
are
safe
or
not,
and
often
have
given
us
a
very
positive
report
about
our
safeguarding
of
children
and
our
social
work
practice,
and
that's
why
I
made
that
point
earlier
and
they
found
really
really
positive
partnership
working
on
the
ground.
M
This
is
a
discussion
between
partners
who
are
operating
at
a
strategic
level,
but
they
started
their
inspection
at
the
front
door
because
that's
where
cases
come
in,
that's
where
social
workers
sit
every
day
with
health
and
with
the
police,
they
started
their
inspection
there
and
they
followed
the
cases
through
and
they
found
really
outstanding
practice
in
terms
of
partnership
working
with
health
and
with
the
police
and
that's
reflected
in
the
ofsted
report.
So,
although
this
is
a
challenging
process,
you
know
it's
in
that
context.
M
G
I
just
briefly
wanted
to
pick
up
on
what
julie
said
about
the
learning
that
took
place
or
was
taking
place
from
the
two
cases
where
agreement
wasn't
reached,
because
it
seems
that
you
know
notifying,
isn't
the
only
way
to
kind
of
like
step
into
rapid
learning.
So
I
just
wondered
if
you
could
unpack
a
bit
more,
how
learning
took
place
in
or
is
taking
place
with
those
two
cases
and
the
kind
of
process
and
the
level
and
the
partnership
working
on
the
learning
of
those
two
cases.
N
Yeah
I'll
just
respond
briefly,
so
clearly
we
do
have
a
local
child
safeguarding
practice
review,
which
is
underweight
which
has
been
referenced
today
and
we
do
have
we're
just
in
the
process
of
looking
at
the
other
learning
lessons
process
and
what
that
will
entail.
But
I
think
it
is
it's.
N
You
know
it's
really
important
that
in
terms
of
the
16
cases
that
we've
considered
you
know,
we
have
notified
a
number
there's
13,
there's
another
13
cases
that
have
been
considered
by
the
rack
which,
where
we
have
looked
at
learning
generally,
so
we're
constantly
looking.
You
know
where
we
can
learn
from
those
discussions.
N
There
was
a
case
last
week
the
week
before
last.
I
think
where
one
of
our
police
colleagues
contacted
myself
and
he
we
had
a
whole
conversation
about
the
case
and
actually
whether
there
could
be
some
opportunities
for
learning.
It
wasn't
necessarily
about
notification
and
we
took
that
to
the
rag.
You
know
the
earliest
opportunity
to
have
those
conversations,
so
I
think
there
has
been
learning.
We
have
a
very,
very
different
process
today
than
we
did
last
may
and
that's
a
real
positive
for
the
partnership,
and
we
will
build
on
that.
N
You
know,
as
I've
said
earlier,
you
know
I
think,
we're
all
really
looking
forward
to
having
the
session
with
annie
hudson
and
with
the
national
safeguard
facilitators.
You
know
because
it
it
is
through
the
difficult
conversations
and
the
difficult
challenges,
and
you
know
restorative
practice,
high
support,
high
challenge,
professional
respect,
listening
to
each
other
and
sometimes
agreeing
how
to
disagree,
because
there
will
be
times
when
we
disagree
and
disagreement
is
as
much
for
me
as
a
healthy
partnership,
as
is
consensus.
A
Okay,
thank
you
for
that.
Okay,
we've
had
a
lengthy
session
on
that
and
covered
a
lot
of
ground.
I
I
note
the
challenges
about
whether
we
should
have
been
discussing
it
or
not,
and
there's
two
things
I'd
like
to
say
about
that
before
we
sum
up
and
go
on
to
next
steps,
and
hopefully
finish
on
a
positive
note,
one.
It's
a
reminder
that
scrutiny
is
supposed
to
have
parity
of
esteem
with
the
executive
in
this
council.
That's
a
key
principle
and
it's
very
important
there
for
a
reason.
A
A
They
should
always
have
that
opportunity
to
come
here
so
that
we
can
hear
what
they've
got
to
say,
and
so
I
note
the
challenges
but
taking
them
on
board.
I
would
do
exactly
the
same
again
in
the
same
circumstances
going
forward.
A
E
Chair,
if
I
just
may
add
that
the
case
in
question
there
is
we
have,
there
is
a
child
safeguarding
practice,
review
being
conducted
by
an
independent
chair
and
an
independent
author,
and
I'm
pleased
to
say
that
the
child
herself
is
willing
to
engage
to
share
her
experiences,
which
is
incredibly
important.
A
Okay,
thank
you
for
that.
Okay.
So,
in
terms
of
our
next
steps,
I
think
obviously,
we've
got
the
two
recommendations
that
councillor
stevenson
has
made,
which
I
don't
think
I
noted
any
dissent
for
and
councillor
vena
supported
that
and
clearly
the
next
time
we
need
to
to
be
discussing.
This
is
once
the
the
report
is
complete
and
we
can
have
everything
in
front
of
us
in
in
one
go
to
understand
exactly
the
situation
and
then
what
further
work
that
needs
to
be
done
by
this
board.
That
can
add
value.
A
So
is
everybody
happy
with
that
as
an
approach,
obviously
we're
going
to
the
successor
board,
but
whoever
is
on
that
will
be
singing.
Did
you
want
to
come
and
judge
me.
E
I
just
wanted
some
clarity
when
you
refer
to
report.
Are
you
referring
to
the
review
or
are
you
referring
to
the
the
child
safeguarding
practice
review
report?
I'm
not
sure
which
report
you
mean
because
the
review
may
take
time.
I
mean
it
could
take
up
to
four
months
or
maybe
a
bit.
I
don't
know.
I
don't
have
a
timeline
yet,
but
I
will
have
one,
but
it's
not
imminent.
I
could
tell
you
that.
A
Okay
yeah-
well,
I
think,
probably
both
is
what
we're
what
we're
looking
for,
and
I
think
we'd
be
guided
by
the
executive
collectively
as
to
when
it's
appropriate
to
bring
each
aspect
back
to
us.
So
if
we
can
keep
in
dialogue-
and
I
think
that
that
would
be-
I
wouldn't
want
to
set
a
timeline
on
it,
but
when
you
feel
it's
appropriate
to
bring
it
back
to
us,
okay,
is
everybody
content
with
that?
A
Okay,
okay!
So
we're
on
to
item
nine,
which
is
the
work
schedule
so
I'll
hand
over
to
angela.
F
Thank
you,
chad,
I'll,
try
and
be
brief.
So
in
terms
of
this
report,
this
presents
the
latest
version
of
god's
work
schedule
in
appendix
one
as
this
is
the
board's
final
scheduled
meeting
of
this
municipal
year.
Bar
members
are
also
requested
to
consider
the
draft
work
schedule
of
the
successor
scrutiny
bar
for
22
23
municipal
year.
The
drafted
work
schedule
for
next
year
set
out
with
appendix
3.
It
includes
proposed
meeting
dates
and
also
known
items
of
scrutiny.
A
A
I
include
the
local
authority
in
that
and
it's
a
healthy
thing
that
it's
not
just
a
a
nodding
group
where
everybody
agrees,
and
so
I
thank
all
four
partners
and
jazz
vinder
as
the
independent
chair
for
for
actually
showing
a
strong
light
of
the
partnership.
I
think,
and
I
think
positive
things
will
come
from
it.
So
that's
the
positive
I
wanted
to
finish
on,
but
thank
you
all
for
for
coming
this
morning
and
council
stevenson,
you
had
a
appointment
very.
H
Quickly,
our
last
meeting
on
this
helen
raised
the
issue
about
teacher
recruitment
and
retention,
and
I
think
we've
missed
it
in
the
draft
work
plan
that
we
looked
at
whether
we
could
have
a
session.
It's
obviously
a
national
issue,
but
it
affects
us
locally
and
within
that
I
think
it'd
be
quite
useful
to
invite
the
leads
teaching
school
hub
to
hear
that
the
other
people
who
are
affected
with
teacher
training
teachers
so
have
to
have
that
insight
from
the
ground
would
be
very
useful
for
the
board.
I
think.
A
Okay,
we'll
note
that
so
so.
The
final
part,
this
is
the
final
meeting
of
the
municipal
year.
So
if
I
can
thank
all
of
you
very
much
for
your
contributions
throughout
the
year,
we've
got
through
an
awful
lot
of
work.
If
I
can
thank
councillor
venice
councillor,
pryor
sal,
julie,
all
of
the
team
that
have
come
and
shared
lots
of
information
with
us.
I
I
well
to
come
back
to
the
the
good
news
at
the
start.
A
Obviously,
ofsted
has
found
a
fantastic
result
for
the
city
and
it's
shown
this
board
in
a
good
light
as
well,
and
we
just
need
to
continue
that
working
to
to
keep
things
moving
forward.
So
I
don't
know
yet
if
I'll
be
sat
in
this
chair
again
next
year,
but
I
know
it
is,
I
think,
one
of
the
best
jobs
in
the
council
and
a
great
privilege
to
to
do
it
and
it's.
A
We
have
a
wonderful
team
and
I
thank
you
all
for
pretty
much
99
of
the
time,
leaving
our
politics
at
the
door
and
focusing
on
doing
the
best
that
we
can
for
for
children
and
young
people.
So,
thank
you
all,
and
the
final
item
is
date
and
time
of
next
meeting,
which
will
be
on
the
8th
of
june
at
10
o'clock,
with
the
pre-meeting
issues
at
9
45
and
who
knows
who
we'll
be
seeing
then,
and
but
hopefully
lots
of
us
will
still
be
here.
Thank
you.