MakerDAO Community Collateral Onboarding, 16 Jun 2021

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From YouTube: Collateral Onboarding Call #32: GNO Token - Wednesday, June 16, 2021

Description

Collateral Onboarding Call #32: GNO Token

Intro by @JuanJuan
Presentation by @stefangeorge

Agenda: https://forum.makerdao.com/t/collateral-onboarding-call-32-gnosis-wednesday-june-16-17-00-utc/8778

Governance Forum:
https://forum.makerdao.com/

Disclaimer: These calls and the summaries are produced and hosted by MakerDAO community members. Content produced by the community are not the statements or views of the Maker Foundation.

A

Hello, everyone welcome to make your dog collateral call this one number 32., it's crazy. How far we've come. My name is juan. I'm, the facilitator for the core unit called scs, sustainable ecosystem scaling, and uh we are here joined by stefan gyoge from gnosis and he's actually going to be discussing the project and uh the collateral onboarding application, so the mipsticks for the. For their token.

B

A

Which I'm not sure how to pronounce uh so definitely if you want to give an introduction of yourself to the to the people.

C

Sure yeah thanks thanks for having me and everyone. Thank you for joining this call, um yeah, I'm schlepper and I'm co-founder of gnosis uh me and martin. We started working my co-founder martin. We started working in blockchain already in 2013 working on actually prediction market built on top of bitcoin.

C

We could use bitcoin as collateral and then we discovered in 2014 ethereum and we realized we could build a much better, more decentralized infrastructure for prediction markets around ethereum, and so we we joined actually consensus as the first members in beginning of 2015, and so we yeah we experienced the entire crazy journey of consensus and ethereum and yeah. We we spun up from consensus in 2017.

C

Did our own ico was one of the first icos.

C

We used a dutch auction at that time, we're the first to do such an auction and yeah reached also an insane valuation at the time uh raised, 250 000 ether and that allowed us to yeah to build notices and build everything that we did in the last couple of years, which is quite a lot. We also did quite a few pivots.

C

So originally, as I mentioned, like the mission of northeast wars to build prediction markets and we released several products for prediction markets, but we also had to realize that prediction markets did not get the traction that we hoped for, and so we yeah, we decided to also branch out into different fields. So we were very early involved also in the development of decentralized exchanges.

C

One of our engineers actually came up with this for a very famous formula, uh the constant product formula, that's used by unit swap and many other exchanges.

C

uh We decided to not pursue this but focused on batch auctions instead, because we saw many issues with this, especially in terms of minor extractable value things that for many years, were completely irrelevant and just recently actually uh surfaced for, uh for the majority of users and uh yeah, we've been developing quite a few technologies around this, uh which now finally get the attention or the traction that uh that is needed, um and we also worked heavily on wallets so basically for our own ico, because it was basically one of the first.

C

We also had to create a lot of infrastructure, including a multi-sig wallet that allowed to store esc20 tokens and the proceeds from the token sale and uh yeah, because many others were following having the same problem. They just copied our software, obviously, and that's kind of how the gnosis multistick became the standard for treasury management on ethereum and yeah. We continuously developed it and out of this and uh the northern safe emerged, which is now yeah, has basically fully replaced.

C

uh Also things I guess to the gas costs, but also the uh yeah, the utility and user-friendliness of the save has fully replaced the old noses, multisig and um yeah. Now we're here. Actually, it's not the first time that we apply for maker. We were actually just when multi collateral die uh was about to launch. We were already applying in the first patch, I think rightfully so we were not selected at that time. It was very early, but I think now it's a good time to reapply and yeah.

C

I want to give you a brief update on where we are now uh after a couple of years of developing and yeah. So last year, in november, we made an announcement uh to turn noses into a dao into noises down and right now, still gnosis is operated by norse limited, um which is a company that holds the funds and that employs everyone but similar to how you guys approached it.

C

We want to continuously decentralize gnosis, and we did the first step back in november last year to create noises now, and the role of gnosis dao will be to govern two things. One is the development and the funding and the monetization of noticed products and, secondly, also to maintain and use the nose, which is very significant and yeah. That's also up to this date, the main purpose of geno to be used as a governance token.

C

um There is a lot of potential to use tokens within the product that we have been building, but it has not been, frankly speaking, our priority uh simply because um adoption was yeah. The first thing we wanted to focus on getting adoption for the safe, getting adoption for our exchange technology and, of course, there are ways how to monetize it and it's also partially already built in, um but the gno token itself is not yet uh integrated into it, but that's obviously a step that is pretty straightforward.

C

Now I'll get back to this in a second, so yeah, just the summary of what we currently work on work on the noise, the multisig wallet work on also protocol, which is a decentralized exchange protocol. We work on nurses, auction, which is also a decentralized exchange for the very different focus of price finding. um Actually, we also looked at how the maker auction works and they are also quite uh yeah.

C

We think it's like a very, very good auction design, actually we're almost thinking about copying it but yeah, and then we also work on general infrastructure for ethereum, so we have been maintaining the second largest ethereum node by node count open, ethereum and recently made the announcement to join efforts with aragon to replace open.

A

C

Which is a very old code base which we inherited from parity and we believe aragon's actually what will dominate the future and actually has the possibility to have more diverse client landscape on ethereum.

C

This is mostly a public good, obviously like it is a public good that we do, because we believe it's important to to make progress on yeah ethereum. One uh ethereum two is great. You also, of course, are supporting tier two, but uh we felt the m1 development was a bit neglected and we wanted to support it and that's why we invested into this also supported by the ccm foundation.

C

Yeah. Let me briefly talk about the products and also safe is basically the platform right now for for most projects for funds to maintain and manage treasury. You guys know it you're, a user you're one of our customers, but there are also many others, including bitfenix, is using it for the code storage.

C

um The 10x synthetics is using it unisoft is using it. Vitalik recently moved his entire ether into a safe, so we have quite a few users and in total I think over one point, seven or one point: eight percent uh at this point of all ether is held in those saves uh in total it goes up to yeah, 20 billion dollars of assets and totally being stored in also save css.

C

Yes, basically dashboard that we use to to keep track of this um yeah there. You can see basically how it develops over time. It's all linked in the presentation as well, um so the save is pretty successful. Of course, a question arises: how can it be turned into something? That's also profitable again like this has not been our our main concern.

C

Main concern was first adoption, but we reached the level of adoption where you can think about this and yeah. There are two ways how the notes save can be extended.

C

One is on the smart contract layer, so you can write modules which allow to extend the access rights for how someone can operate with notice, safe and then there's a layer on the on the ui, where you can extend how users can interface with those safe contracts, and this concept is called safe.

C

Apps many save apps have been built and we also continuously developed the safe apps sdk, which allows to get the most out of the user experience so like the possibilities that the node safe can offer and yeah there's potentially also a way to monetize it similar to how instead app is also monetizing. Instead of for taking a cut for certain transactions which are facilitated over instead of you could have something similar on those save apps.

C

Also, basically, you can't could have a sort of a token created registry for those or maybe harbor attacks for what kind of apps get the biggest user attention or might be the default app for token swaps, landing and so on. The other big potential revenue stream, I see, is insurances.

C

So a lot of big funds are contacting us to to use notice safe, a lot of institutional investors come into the space and they basically have to use the north safe. There is no alternative and, and for them, basically, everyone has the question about insurance like what. How can I ensure the activities that I do and uh well yeah there? We are obviously like the interface for them and that's a potential revenue stream as well. um How exactly tokens can be involved here?

C

You will see, uh but there's a huge potential for for revenue, and then we have knowledge protocol. um Those protocol has been works for a couple of years. Like recently, we launched protocol version two, and this protocol is what we call a meter dex aggregator.

C

If you operate on regular exchanges like unisop or one inch, then what the user does is. He is actually signing a very concrete execution path um and in those protocol you don't do this, but instead you're signing a message which is basically signing your trade intent. So, for example, instead of saying I go over these pools to swap a token, I have only signaling that I want to exchange. Let's say: 2500 die for one ether and then this order is given to a manpool of uh of those protocol orders and then what we call solvers.

C

They can take those orders and they can create this best execution path for those and because noz protocol is a batch auction system. Where you collect those orders over a period of time, you can try to find also direct matches between those.

C

So if someone wants to, let's say, buy ether in the same period of time where someone wants to sell ether for the same token, then you can match those directly and you don't even have to tap into any on-chain liquidity where you have to pay a fee, and this is good for for many reasons. One of them is, it can also help to reduce mev.

C

So basically, we allow users to to submit orders with a very small slippage such that it's basically not profitable for miners to to extract value and our solvers are able to combine those orders into a package where and send it submitted to to miners soon, also using flashbots to avoid miners to extract value from those transactions in total. It has over 100 million dollars in volume so far, and it's increasing and yeah it's going quite well.

C

Definitely mev is a topic which recently became quite some attention and it's actually a big issue for ethereum and we believe we have one of the or maybe the best solution right now on the market for traders to avoid mev- and I think I saw a number yesterday- that under today, over 650 million dollars has been extracted in value from users, trading on taxes and doing other activities and yeah. We believe that this kind of technology will be able to reduce this very significantly and yeah.

C

Then we have also gnosis auction, and this auction is also a batch auction mechanism, but it's very different from those protocol. Those protocol is really about instant exchange or close to instant as instant as blockchain can be. um Aeronautics. Auction is about to have about price flying mostly to find like a fair price for a new asset.

C

So, for example, when the organization wants to launch a token doing an ico or like an ideo, then uh the price was, as is not known, and we developed a mechanism that allows to find a fair price, and we do this by applying batch auctions to this those options.

C

Very simple, batch auction design, where you can define that you want to sell a certain amount of tokens over like a certain period of time, let's say two days, and then anyone can place bids to buy this token and once the period is over, then we calculate the final clearing price by going from the highest bisque for highest bids.

C

First, going down to under the time the point where the entire amount of tokens that were supposed to be sold are sold and then the last last order that gets in defines the final clearing price for everyone. So everyone could get the same price and yes was quite successful.

C

We already had some very successful auctions. The first auction was a boson sale.

C

I think they raised in total 25 million dollars and were quite happy about the outcome of this, and it also proved to be actually working because the price which was defined as the final clearing price in this auction also turned out to be the price where the token was later trading at after the tokens were available on secondary markets.

C

Yeah potential revenue here is, of course, also protocol fee. It's already implemented same as with notice protocol. There is also protocol fee which can be activated right now at zero, but the more adoption this protocol gets and the more attention it gets and the stronger the brand is the more likely. This can also be switched on. um Actually there's one interesting auction coming up very soon called from a project called vitadao.

C

They do longevity. Research has been endorsed by vitalik and also balance. I believe so. I expect this to be also a pretty interesting sale to watch and facilitate it using those auction I mentioned before. We have to, we have looked also in other auction designs. Also in the maker auction design. We find it pretty convincing.

C

We might actually try to make this also more broadly available, not only for the use case or liquidations maker, but I think it's actually a good use case also for generally yeah trevory management of dao's, for example. So we see lots of daos have huge trevories and they have to convert some of those and right now, there's no exchange available where they could possibly do this other than actually no noises auction or at some point knows protocol, and we see this is a growing market which is quite interesting and yeah.

C

I think we have the best solution for this market. Actually, it also has been used already by u.n finance and other dollars to convert part of their tokens. Unisop is currently looking into this. I was also looking into those auction for certain liquidations, so yeah you're quite excited about this as well yeah. Then it looks at the general distribution that might be interesting for this discussion as well.

C

There's a total supply of 10 million gno market cap. As of today is 266 million dollars, so about 11 000 addresses holding genome um yeah, the biggest part of geno is actually not used right now, which is 8 million or 8.5 million. um Those 8.5 million are sitting in investing contracts when we announce noses down. We also try to give an answer to what happens with the majority of geno that we still hold, and the answer we came up with at that time was okay.

C

We we put those tokens into western contracts, so those are linked here also in the presentation which will invest those tokens linearly over a period of eight years and um yeah. It remains to be seen what how those tokens will be used. It might be an option to burn some of them or I would consider it actually, probably the most likely simply because there's a lot of tokens left and it's uh would dilute current gene overwhelmers very very significantly if we would put all of those on the market, but it remains to be seen.

C

It's obviously part of the dow to decide on on what happens with those tokens um yeah then other than these tokens investing contracts. uh We have 0.6 million, which were given to the entire gnosis team over time. This also includes contractors which worked for nurses and I think, over the years it might apply to actually over 100 people, but right now, there's about 65 people working on those on different parts of gnosis.

C

We sold yeah 0.4 million during the ico, and 0.4 million were given to early investors in in notices and yeah. I guess the biggest question remains to be answered is really what happens with those 8.5 million tokens right now. Here, 0.5 million are vested to notice ltd, but we are also strongly considering to just move them also to notice dial and just let the community decide on what will happen to those then in terms of the road map.

C

So, as I mentioned, we we initiated gnosis dao in november, and the main action we did was to transfer those 8 million geno intervesting contract, which is transparently vested to notice down.

C

But this is not the final step, obviously so, right now, at the time when we started gnosis yeah notice. Now it was basically just a safe, a simple safe with some anonymous sinus, and this setup did not allow us to fulfill the dowel mission that we actually had in mind.

C

That would allow us to do a lot more things and in order to get to a part, to a point where we can do what we actually want to do, it has to be much more decentralized and that's why we were working on a new framework to allow yeah to to allow to upgrade sales into dials and that's what we call safe snap. So we uh we basically implemented a new access module for north safe, which allows to make snapshot worlds on chain executable.

B

C

Snapshot is this platform that allows very simple guests, as voting, which is great because well, right now, still gaskers are still significant. Also for I guess for maker. You also face this problem of water apathy, where these gas costs prevent participation. Snapshots solve this by just having only signed messages, but comes with the enormous downside of not allowing those to be on chain executable trustless and that's what we enabled with safe snap.

C

um So we built this module which allows us to to put like a finalized snapshot, vote on chain and make it executable, and so we have the best of both worlds: big participation through gaster's voting, but also the on-chain enforceability, and that was one big step for us to get to this point also many other companies or organizations uh committed to use the safe snap among them. I think sushi swap and also young finance, I think, is looking into it, but this was also not everything.

C

As you guys know, transferring like or transforming a legal entity into a dao is quite a cumbersome pro process. It can take a long time and so yeah we faced. I guess similar challenges here and uh yeah. It took us also a while to find a path where we can transform those limited into gnosis dao, and we found the path forward and one big step to this also gip 10, which I linked here, which is the participation agreement, which is basically allowing gnosis token holders to participate, voting on notice down without having enormous liabilities.

C

It also reduces the liability of notice down itself and also those service partners working on it. I guess you guys have something similar, otherwise it might be interesting for you guys also to look into it.

C

We have spent quite some time on uh yeah figuring out how this participation green can look like, and we did all this work also to finally uh follow up on our promise that we did when we announced notice, dao and part of the promise was to transfer hundred fifty thousand ether into notice down uh right now. Those has still obviously very significant referee and yeah. We committed to to uh move a part of this treasury into northern style. um Even at that point, you know either dropped quite significantly.

C

It's a very significant amount of funds and yeah. We want to follow up on this and actually do the transfer now or like very soon. As soon as uh those two gip 11, gip, 10 are accepted and implemented. We can actually fulfill this promise and that's, of course, also very interesting, I think from a maker perspective, because this opens up uh how those funds can be used, and in the past we have been using maker dao. Quite a lot already so northeast dao knows limited has been participating in yield farming activities uh the entire year.

C

um So we are very early in all the yield farming programs and we use the ether responsibly to participate in those and yeah.

C

I have to say also thank you to make kadal uh thanks to you and notice was a profitable company, even though none of our products made money uh now this could still run profitable um by participating in all the youth farming activities and also, obviously using uh maker dao for us maker was very important because we are, we are very bullish on ether and have always been, and that's why we yeah it's a tough decision for us to sell ether and we rather not.

C

We rather would not sell either. So we decided to to use maker down to create a very large cdp. I think it was probably the largest at some point and we used our ether to generate at some point. I think about 40 million or 50 million die to participate in yield farming activities and yeah. That worked quite well, and we expect also notice doubt to continue doing this.

C

Of course, I cannot speak for gnosis now, but I can't it only makes sense for dolls to to use their funds to participate in in trevory management and induced farming activities responsibly and, as such, I think make it out will be a very important part of this.

C

Also, I think mega dog can help in helping to distribute gino further right now. We of course provide significant gene old liquidity uh on different exchanges, mostly decentralized exchanges, and it would be for me also very interesting to have liquidity provided for geno dye and for this, of course, we would also uh like, as I, as you guys have seen here like, we are going to transfer uh funds, ether and project tokens that we have invested into including stake, which is extinct, uh git, the graph and pnk, which is cleros and some other tokens.

C

But we are not going to transfer stable coins. Those we need in inos is limited, um and so yeah, like the question for northern style, will be okay. How can we provide liquidity for gene old dye, for example, and for this nozzle star will also probably create a cdp to provide liquidity for those pairs and yeah? I won't also. I would also like to recap a little bit how the relationship has been between norse's maker down.

C

So, as I mentioned before, this is not the first application as a second application, but there are also other points where we had uh like touch points between noses and maker. One of them was that, just at the time when maker started using a more decentralized oracle price feed, we were one of the parties to participate in this. So since 2019 we provide a price feed for the maker oracle and then also last year, when maker yeah with maker was a little bit at risk.

C

During the black thursday, um we decided to, I think, greg from your team reached out to us and we decided to create a big cdp at the time uh and generated significant amount of die uh at that time. It was a significant amount, and so this amount of dye on the free market, uh using our own exchange um to maintain the pack of die and yeah. Lastly, of course also custom, I think it goes both ways. We have been a big customer of maker dal.

C

You are also a customer of the safe, so I think we yeah we had already quite a few points of collaboration and yeah. We would be very excited to see how we can get to the next step, where eventually geno can be used as a collateral in yeah an mcd, and that concludes my presentation and I'm happy to answer questions.

A

Nice, thank you. Stefan is there anyone that wants to go first.

A

B

I can take a snap.

B

Isn't directly related to the collateral part, but I'm curious just from like uh dealing with maker and trying to work on so many different things at once. uh I'm curious uh how you managed to iterate on on so many different uh uh different core aspects of d5, like uh seems like any one of these would be pretty revolutionary.

B

You guys are hitting them all at the same time so like how does management look like that? For that.

C

Yeah yeah, it's it's not easy, but that's also actually one of the drivers for turning noses into dao. We want to have independent teams where they don't where they don't face bottlenecks which are given by management over being part of like a big organization. Diagnose is today de facto already today, teams are fairly independent, so we have dedicated resources for the northern safe and dedicated resource for gnosis protocol.

C

We also decided to actually, I know it looks like we work on many things, but it has been even worse before.

C

uh As you know, like we come from prediction markets, prediction markets, actually the one thing that we stopped doing, uh because adoption was just too low um but yeah for for gnosis like compared to gnosis like one year ago. It's actually quite focused uh but yeah. You know we have basically dedicated resources for each of those projects, and that makes sure that those can also proceed fast, but we can't even be better and we are thinking about um yeah doing spin-offs of gnosis and eventually it could also result in a system where they have gnosis.

C

Dao is like the main dow, but then we have sub-dials for the different projects and allow them to be more independent.

C

um Of course, the question is how's the relationship to to the gnosis main dial, um but I could also see that nurses could continuously incubate new projects, uh get them to a stage where they can operate by themselves and then letting them go on their own. Maintaining, of course, a share of ownership in those um that could be a very successful model.

B

Hey, stefan, oh sorry, go forward frank! Oh sorry, yeah! No! You! I heard you say incubation, so I wanted to go back to this cow swap yeah that you presented in that slide. Is that a project you guys incubated number one number two, I'm trying to understand how you're going to um incur revenue from that, because I guess it's a separate. uh It's a separate protocol right and it sounds to me like what you're doing is you're cutting out the market makers and the lp.

B

um You know liquidity providers for making a fee, so I didn't quite get how the cal swap thing works and how to more importantly, how uh notices makes revenue out of this.

C

Yeah yeah yeah good question, so cow swap is the nurse's product. The purpose really did not brand it um like nothing specifically because we wanted to uh well. We felt like- or at least we wanted to experiment with this and we felt like it might be actually more successful if we don't associate it with gnosis um and it looked quite successfully.

C

uh I think this cow meme cow actually stands for coincidence of once meaning. If two traders want to do the opposite trade in one batch, they can be matched directly instead of tapping into on-chain liquidity and um yeah. How can we? How can we make money with this so uh yeah? What we currently do is we are uh we we try to match as many trades as possible directly, so you don't have to tap into on-chain liquidity, which means also that you save a significant fee that you would otherwise have if you trade on chain.

C

So if you trade on uniswork, for example, you can easily have a fee of 30 basis points, maybe more and that's a fee that well basically we can. uh We can try to yeah kind of cut the speed out and instead match people directly, and then you can take the reasonable cut of maybe like 10 basis points or something that we figure could work. We actually also work together with professional market makers, because they can mostly actually offer better prices and on-chain available and yeah.

C

That becomes then quite tricky to find a good price or like good fee that can be taken because they obviously offer like a like a smaller spread than on chain and then even 10 basis. Points are already significant, um but yeah. You work with the market makers that you also.

C

I guess that maker also knows quite well, will not mention their name but yeah. You should know them and uh yeah they they also yeah. They also, of course, also need to get their fee and so yeah. We think something hopefully between five and ten basis points is finally a protocol fee that we could take, um and this hopefully, will be enough to pay solvers which have to do the submission on chain, um but also yeah pay noses down in the end. For for the maintenance and development of the protocol.

A

How fast are the trades uh stefan.

C

Yeah, so we have currently a batch time of 30 seconds, so basically every two blocks we are able to settle, and that is also we figured. This is kind of a user experience that is acceptable.

C

I would actually argue the user experience on household is better than on other exchanges, because in cow swap what you do as a user. You just sign a message and you don't have to deal with the whole transaction submission. um You just sign a message and then it's up to the solvers to submit everything on your behalf.

C

You also don't pay gas cost if your trade fails, but I like, based on my personal experience, also what we what we analyzed on chain, uh it's actually much more um reliable, because our software is, of course, more sophisticated in figuring out what is the right gas price and how inclusion can be guaranteed than regular users, submitting orders over meter mask and that's why the user experience is significantly improved compared to trading on uniswap or other exchanges, and I think that's also what users of coursehop really appreciate that yeah.

C

You just sign a message everything else being taken care of, and you also save significantly depending on what kind of oil you submit, because you're protected from mev and uh it's also aggregating liquidity sources.

C

We have already one inch integrated in power swap um and, of course, have also our own solvers, which can then also conclude those ring trades. So let's say one you want to trade die for for ether. I want to trade either for geno and someone to trade geno for die.

C

Then, if those orders are uh like separate and we cannot find like one ring to match all of those, but because we collect them over a period of time, they're available within the within one batch at the same time, and then the solver can directly match those without even having to tap into any unchained liquidity.

A

C

A

You deal with liquidity, then, like that's my.

C

Oh yeah, so we have to so we can. If, let's say you want to uh you- want to buy ether, there is die and someone wants to sell ether for die. Then we can directly match those and we don't have to tap into any unchained liquidity, but most of the time of course it's not given like most of the time, you will have be able to match a fraction of this and then what we do is we match the fraction of this, and then we use the remains for matching it on chain.

C

But then, of course, only a fraction of this has to go on chain. Only fraction of this has to pay the fee on chain, and that's why everyone uh yeah save some some fees which are they're not paid to liquidity providers.

B

Nice, this is all off chain right. uh It's signed off chain, but then comes back on chain. So what happens if I want to trade die for, say something like rap near I'm, not even sure, if that's a token, but something that till liquid, like that, uh it doesn't get executed within two transactions right, I'm sorry within.

C

Two blocks.

B

C

Yeah yeah so the way how cars occurred so there's a difference between cars overnight protocol those protocols allows all kind of orders to be submitted, counsel purposefully only lets you submit orders which are valid for a few blocks um and solvers are only able to match it within a few blocks and if it doesn't get matched there, then the transaction. Then your order cannot be executed anymore and then it's just unfortunate. Then you hear a sad move on the exchange but yeah.

C

If, if, if there's security on chain, um then we'll use your liquidity on chain. If you find direct matches and uh we will try to measure directly if this lipid is too high, then it's just not going to be executed.

B

C

B

And so you've done 100 million in uh in total volume. So far it's pretty cool, uh but speaking of volume, um so we've had a few collaterals come on and they pretty much have been uh pretty much dead on arrival right, no one's interested in drawing die against them. What's what's the volume like, I was trying to look it up on a coin gecko. What's the daily volume of notes? Is the trading volume just trying to get an idea? I.

A

C

B

It's on uni, swap and balancer. You can just give us those numbers, or maybe you did.

C

Yeah yeah, this is uh so the the volume reported on coin market cap, I believe, is around 10 million dollars per day. uh I would consider part of this watch trading. I estimate the actual trading volume probably be around three to five million. Maybe um we are also continuously talking to some big exchanges, of course, for listing made some good progress on this and nothing is guaranteed, um but that would hopefully also be a way to increase volume of of genome.

B

And on balancer uh uni swap, do you know what.

C

Yeah so there the volume has been, I think, the last week or so or since the market crashed significantly. It has been around 1 million today on those on those market makers. Previously it was significantly higher around 4 million, but the last week or so has been dropping to 1 million today, or maybe 2 million.

B

Cool thanks steph. I appreciate that.

C

A

Stephanie no or do you suspect that holders of the geno will actually use it or is it more? The use case would be treasury, because that's another thing that should be considered right if it's uh mainly the treasury team. That could be good because you could, in theory at least guarantee a certain volume up front, but on the on the other hand, another risk to add. That is that if notice fails and let's touch wood on this one, but if, if that happens, then the whole collateral type and vaults would be falling under.

C

Yeah yeah, so I expect quite a few genotype holders to be interested in this. um I think certainly notice now itself, but also many others. Other genotype holders are heavily invested in d5 and just waiting for this to happen.

C

So I would be surprised if the world is not maxed out quickly um and uh yeah. Regarding the value of gino um right now, gino was trading still below the book value actually of the ether that we want to transfer, I think. Well, we have to consider that we did the announcement of transferring 150 000 ether yeah in november, so many months have passed where we could not make a clear update on this.

C

Actually, this year is kind of the first official update that is now finally going to happen um and of course I expect once this activity is happening in the public.

C

This will also have an impact on the genome price um we will see, but I am certain that gnosis dao and also many genotype holders will use geno walls to generate die. They have zero doubt.

B

Would you have like a rough idea of like scale in terms of how the treasure you might like to use it.

C

uh Well, that's.

A

A good combine non-binding. Also. Stefan, you don't need to comment. It's.

C

Hard to speak for myself, the dow has to decide obviously yeah, but my guess would be given the current situation. uh Well, if you're willing to let's say, allow to generate up to, let's say 20 or 30 million die, I would totally see this being used.

B

That's that's nice. That's exciting!.

C

Yeah, so it would definitely like. I am pretty sure that the limiting factor here will be how what your risk team would assess to what is uh reasonable, um but I'm also pretty sure that this would be maxed out, like gnosis is full of d5 diggins, as I think maker as well. So I would be very surprised if that's not happening.

A

Nice are there any other questions. Pablo hello, pablo paper tim. We haven't heard you in a while.

B

I think dio tio had a question no.

B

Yes, I mean I found impressive, that the team decided to to invest the tokens over a eight year period and probably it's something that most projects should look at. uh It was chris. What is the model behind it and what's uh the rationale behind it as well? In the meantime, I was booking over the uh participation agreement on github, so I was reading.

C

B

I got distracted by it, but that was my question just.

C

What's the rationale behind the eight-year investing period and how the model actually works for contributors, uh people are contributing nurses right right, right, yeah, so right now we have uh yeah right now we until now we basically had a token program noticed internally to incentivize those employees.

C

Now we would like to make this much more public to allow any third parties to be also directly talking to nostalg about how how this can be done, though similar. I guess how you guys have been spinning out core units uh which will receive some mkr.

C

We want to do the same and um yeah the the vesting schedule is still, I think, to yeah is allowing to withdraw too many geno in a short time. So I think it's too actually still not conservative enough. um I think we have to see if we find a very good use case for those genome. So right now, as you wait, I can open the slide again.

C

So this is cgno circulation right now or genome distribution and right now there is just about 1.5 million geno in circulation and right now the vesting schedule would be about 1 million gene. Oh, a little bit more than one new engine will be printed each year, so that's a very, very high inflation, where I don't really see yet how this can be done like how this genome should be used.

C

There might be, there might be decisions which could allow to use these amount of gno. For example, there could be potentially a token merger with another project that could eventually be a way how a lot of geno could be used, but those are very big decisions. I don't know if any of those will happen.

C

um If we don't see that there is such a potential future, then I think it's quite likely that nostalg will decide to burn significant amount of geno to make it more transparent to investors, to reason about the yeah about the circulation of gino and tauzi yeah, how the market cap will potentially change or how the how the keynote circulation will change in the future.

C

B

C

For for sharing.

A

Regarding the the timelines, uh stefan uh are you planning to go into the next.

C

A

Cycle, uh what's the plan.

C

Yeah, so you mean the the timeline for multi-collateral die or the timeline for yeah yeah.

C

We would like to go, of course, as soon as possible and right now, our timeline for gnosis dao is that within the next couple of weeks the participation agreement is is basically available, save same with safe snap, and at that point no style was fully operational and all the treasury management decisions could be done publicly and I think, would be very cool to have nurses dao, as uh as a big customer of maker, to to use their trevory to open, cdps and such and um yeah. For us this will know the better and we're happy.

C

That's also. Maybe something to consider um notices has significant developer resources, so we have yeah about 40 engineers working on gnosis and all of which are about 10, that work on smart contracts, and we also have even our own auditing team inside norses. So we can.

C

We can get things done quite quickly if you want to- and I know there are some smart contract dependencies also in maker scientific with some adapters and such um very good potential help to streamline the process. If that's helpful,.

A

Right are there any imparting questions before we? We close the call.

B

Yeah uh stephanie you're going to be doing more of the um the auctions like boson protocol in the near future.

C

Yeah there's one big upcoming is the wiiter dao auction. Vita dao is this dao that is funding research on longevity and um yeah. They are basically the research that they fund will result in ip that the dao will own and yeah. This is a project that has been endorsed by quite a few ogs like vitalik and balaj, and I would expect this to get quite some attention and they are going to run overnoses auction yeah.

B

Ooh nice alpha.

B

Very cool, and uh do you think I was just thinking outside the box here? Do you think uh the gnosis community would be willing to create a vested gnosis token uh as an option to maybe create more liquidity and use that for something like a like a maker, dow vault? Is that something you guys have thought about discuss on your forums, uh just kind of cross my mind right now, yeah.

C

So so far too many discussions have been done internally and yes, we definitely discussed this, but we have to be more discussing this also on the forum, and I think the good thing about note style is that this enforces us to do this right now, like we, the the ether is still in those is limited, and basically we decide internally how to manage this, and we have this discussion internally, but the step of moving all these funds into nosestar will enforce us to do it publicly get the genotoken community involved, and then we will have these discussions finally, also out in the open but yeah internally.

C

Of course we have been. We have been thinking about those uh for quite a while yeah.

B

Cool thanks man and uh hopefully uh really liked uh what you guys are doing. Hopefully, the maker community will feel the same way. I have you guys on board thanks.

C

Awesome. Thank you.

A

Stefan, what is a good way for people to find you and being you and ask you questions if that comes the case,.

C

Yeah, you can take me on twitter. My dms are open, but you can also write me on telegram. It's just stefan, george, together and yeah. I think those are the two best ways to contact me. You can also write me an email, old fashioned, stefan gnosis pm, but I guess twitter and telegram I'll, probably respawn faster.

A

So it's good, so thank you very much for coming. Stefan, he was really nice getting to know more about the project and yeah thanks everyone for coming to the call and joining us everywhere.

C

Thanks for having me cool have a great day.