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Description
MakerDAO Forum Post: https://forum.makerdao.com/t/collateral-onboarding-call-47-blocktower-credit-arranger-ama/17128
BlockTower Credit has published a MIP6 application requesting a $150M initial debt ceiling to fund super-senior, asset-backed credit secured by short-duration real-world loans and credit receivables.
BlockTower Credit is the credit franchise of BlockTower Capital - an SEC-registered digital asset and blockchain investment firm. The firm manages over half-a-billion dollars and draws on decades of experience from ~30 professionals across investment, risk management, operations, data science, software development, legal and compliance functions.
In this session, we hosted:
Kevin Miao @humancapitol, Principal, Head of Credit
Jack Carlisle @JackintheBlox, Principal, Director of Credit
Kevin Chan @blockdataguy, Principal, Head of Credit
Anant Matai @makeybakey, BlockTower Credit Team
[MIP6]: BlockTower Credit (Arranger)
MakerDAO Forum Link to Application: https://forum.makerdao.com/t/mip6-collateral-onboarding-application-blocktower-credit-arranger/16900
Summary of Terms
-Counterparty: BlockTower Credit
-Real World Asset(s): Super-senior, asset-backed credit secured by diversified pools of short duration, real-world loans and credit receivables
-Initial Debt Ceiling: $150MM
-Minimum BlockTower Junior Capital Position: 30% junior capital (TIN) on every exposure
-12-month goal: Demonstrate exemplary performance, scale responsibly, and play a critical role in raising the bar for Maker through RWA arranger efforts and governance participation
-Yield Benchmarks: SOFR (currently 1.53%) or like-term U.S. Treasuries (5-year UST currently ~2.715%)
-Stability Fee: 4% - Fixed
A
Hello
maker,
dow
community,
thank
you
for
joining
another
collateral.
Onboarding
call
number
47.,
I'm
retro
from
the
sustainable
ecosystem
scale
and
coordinator,
and
today,
I'm
joined
by
block
tower
capital
to
discuss
the
recently
submitted
mid-6
application
for
a
150
million
dollar
debt
ceiling
to
find.
B
A
Super
senior
assets,
backed
by
security,
secured
by
short
duration
of
real-world
loans
and
credit
receivables.
We
have
the
black
tower
capital
credit
team
here
with
us
today.
Well,
I
might
go
over
to
you
in
just
a
minute
as
a
reminder.
If
you
have
any
questions,
please
use
the
chat
feature
or
the
question
feature
on
the
left-hand
side
of
the
screen.
Otherwise,
if
you
haven't
adventures,
please
raise
your
hand
and
join
us
on
stage
for
more
in-depth
discussion.
B
Awesome,
thank
you
very
much.
First
things.
First,
I
want
to
really
thank
paper
for
helping
us
set
this
up
and
obviously,
of
course,
the
maker
scs
team.
My
name
is
kevin
meow.
I
I
work
at
block
tower
capital,
slash
block
tower
credit,
and
I'm
here
with
anand,
who
is
in
the
office
with
me
and
kevin,
feel
free
to
introduce
yourself.
I
guess
well,
actually,
maybe
it
makes
sense
a
little
bit
to
to
give
just
some
rough
background
about
who
we
are.
B
I
think
jack
may
be
joining
shortly
as
well.
He
co-runs
block
tower
credit
alongside
me
and
if
he
doesn't
figure
out
how
to
use
crowdcast,
then
I'll
speak
on
his
behalf
or
just
give
him
a
quick
intro,
but
my
name's
again
kevin
meow.
I've
been
here
at
block
tower
credit
about
actually
about
a
year
at
this
point.
B
B
There's
a
direct
or
a
non-directional
market,
neutral
arbitrage
fund,
there's
a
dedicated
venture
fund
and
then
our
fund,
which
is
the
block,
tower
credit
asset
or
sorry,
the
block
tower
credit
fund
which
focuses
on
real
world
assets.
So
it
is
distinct
from
the
other,
a
like
three
funds
in
the
sense
that
we
don't
invest
in
digital
assets.
We
invest
in
real
world
loans
that
sit
in
off-balance
sheet,
spvs
kind
of
in
the
traditional
like
securitization
space.
B
I
think
a
couple
other
platforms
as
well,
so
obviously
a
huge
it's
it's
something
that
block
tower
has
basically
bet
the
entire
fund
on
we.
We
really
believe
that
this
is
something
that
we're
uniquely
situated
to
provide
and
help
with,
but
then
also
really
just
excited
about
this
future
for
d5
using
the
d5
rails
that
we
know
haven't
been
broken.
B
You
know
obviously
gone
through
a
lot
of
volatility,
but
at
the
same
time
trying
to
take
that
and
bridge
it
into
real
world
utility,
which
ultimately,
we
think
will
help
defy
scale
and
and
the
like.
Obviously,
there's
been
a
lot
of
stuff
going
on
within
the
maker
community
as
well.
So
from
our
perspective,
I
think
one
thing
that
we
really
really
focus
on
quite
a
bit
is
becoming
increasingly
active
in
governance,
as
I'm
sure
many
of
you
guys
are
aware.
A
B
And
and
yeah
intend
to
just
continue
being
basically
long-term
players
here
in
the
maker
now
ecosystem,
we're
one
of
the
largest
maker
token
holders
out
of
our
flagship
fund.
There's
huge
alignment
across
the
fund
in
terms
of
trying
to
just
be
a
good
long-term
partner
to
maker.
Here
on
this,
as
many
of
you
probably
have
heard,
there's
also
you
know
with
the
end
game
plan
and
things
coming
up
we're.
B
Us
my
background
is
in
structured
credit.
I
would
say
I
was
running
a
structure,
credit
trading
desk
at
citigroup
until
2021
focused
on
two
major
strategies,
one
of
which
was
backing
mid
to
late
stage.
Fintech
lenders
through
structured
lending
solutions,
almost
directly
analogous
to
what
we're
doing
here
at
block
tower
credit.
B
I
decided
to
go
to
capchase,
where
I
led
operations
basically
focused
on
bridging
the
gap
between
modern
api
infrastructure
and
traditional
underwriting
methods
that
we
were
still
employing
at
citigroup,
so
data
ingestion
via
apis
credit,
decisioning
underwriting
via
you
know,
like
the
modern,
ai
ml
models
that
you
see
today,
as
well
as
data
ingestion
of
like
real
customer
and
payment
data
through
stripe,
charge,
b
and
mccurley
cap
chase.
For
those
of
you
who
are
familiar
here
is
a
unbelievably
successful
fintech
lender.
B
At
this
point,
I
think
their
series
b
raised
earlier
this
year
has
done
a
780
million
valuation.
I'm
happy
to
have
played
a
very
small
role
in
in
that
piece.
I
then
took
a
quick
surgery
into
harvard
business
school
where
I
started
last
fall,
but
then
dropped
out
after
a
semester
to
to
come
here
and
launch
blocked
our
credit
alongside
the
rest
of
the
team
here
at
block
tower
and
yeah
I'll
pass
it
over
to
kevin
jack.
C
I
come
from
more
of
the
blockchain
and
digital
assets
background,
having
spent
three
or
four
years
at
deloitte
in
the
blockchain
labs,
working
on
very
much
projects,
building
on
top
similar
to
what
we're
working
on
building
on
top
of
stable
coin
protocols
and
platforms
to
enable
value
and
drive
change
in
the
financial
services
space
working
with
an
international
team
of
developers.
Product
managers
as
well
as
you
know,
financial
service
professionals.
C
A
Prior
to
block
tower
at
a
13
billion
dollar
hedge
fund
in
stanford,
connecticut
called
hildeen
capital,
I
primarily
focused
on
the
abs
side
there,
but
I
really
touched
kind
of
all
products
in
in
the
structured
credit
world
so
think,
abs
and
primary
and
secondary
dlos
legacy.
Cdos
agency
cmb
cmbs,
as
well
as
setting
up
forward
flow
agreements
with
earlier
stage,
fintech
originators
purchasing
to
ultimately
securitize.
A
So
it
was
in
my
seat
at
hildeen
that
about
five
years
ago,
at
this
point,
kevin-
and
I
first
met
kevin-
worked
in
an
adjacent
desk
in
city
and
we
got
along
really
well.
So,
when
kevin
started
going
down
this
path
and
and
enjoying
block
tower,
we
connected
and
it
made
a
lot
of
sense.
I
was
really
excited
to
hop
on
and
be
a
part
of
this
journey.
A
B
B
We
really,
I
mean
for
me:
I've
been
going
down
the
rabbit
hole
for
what
feels
like
actually
about
a
decade
now,
but
never
really
considered
this
as
a
full-on
career.
Until
I
saw
what
centrifuge
was
doing
and
knowing
what
blocked
our
credit
was
doing
and
then
seeing
the
integrations
between
centrifuge
and
maker,
it
was
truly
for
me
kind
of
this,
like
eye-opening
experience
of
of
you
know,
there's
something
clearly
real
here
and
it's
not
something
that's
happening
in
the
future.
B
It's
happening
literally
right
now
and
I
need
to
get
involved
and
there
was,
I
think,
a
lot
of
opportunity
to
heighten
the
degree
of
professionalism
and
and
the
like,
in
the
in
in
the
space
and
in
particular
with
with
makers
real
world
asset
efforts,
which
were
you
know,
I
think,
really
really
strongly
like
developed.
But
I
think
there
are
some
players
in
the
ecosystem
who
look.
B
Bank
and
we
look
at
it
as
much
more
of
a
long-term,
you
know
ecosystem
bet,
as
as,
as
illustrated
by
the
fact
that
we're
you
know
significantly
large
token
holders
in
the
maker
project.
So
with
that
happy
to
jump
into
some
of
the
kind
of
like
specifics
around
this
also,
I
would
be
remiss
to
mention
block
tower.
B
B
Cool
all
right
well,
because
we're
sec
registered
hedge
fund.
We
are
focused
on
disclaiming
and
and
and
legal
compliance,
which
I
think
is
probably
pretty
important
at
this
point
in
maker's
journey
and
something
that
we've
thought
deeply
about
for
the
last
six
sevenish
months,
as
we've
worked
with
the
real
finance
teams
to
and
as
well
as
christian
peterson,
to
basically
get
something
that
everyone
is
really
comfortable
with
in
terms
of
operational,
technical
and
legal
aspects.
And
so
this
is,
you
know,
just
for
informational
purposes.
C
Yeah
yeah,
so
we
really
wanna
start
with
like
the
need
for
rwas
and
make
a
doubt
right.
I
think
we
won't
harp
on
this,
because
this
has
been
covered
on
many
many
calls
and
many
many
forums
and
in
the
maker
forums
and
posts,
but
we're
really
looking
at
scaling
dye
issuance
and
we
really
recognize
the
opportunity
associated
with
the
securitization
market
to
really
increase,
introduce
the
next
step
function
of
die
issuance
via
maker
dao.
C
C
Backing
dye,
namely
usdc,
is
a
potential
issue,
potential
issue
that
we
want
to
address
and
communities
align
on,
addressing
and
reducing
exposure
and
getting
to
more
high,
yielding
and
more
purposeful
and
impactful
assets.
Looking
at
green
energy
looking
at
productive
assets,
both
within
through
debt
facilities,
loans,
etc.
C
And
finally,
we
started
on
this
journey
because
we
also
recognize
that
there's
a
really
strong
and
diverse
and
also
aligned
community
towards
growing
rwa
on
maker.
We
recognize
the
six
green
lights
in
the
last
year
that
occur
that
are
rwa
associated
as
well
as
strong
delegates
and
community
leaders
in
this
space
that
again
stress
the
importance
and
impact
of
rwa
for
maker
dao.
C
So
with
that
backdrop
going
to
the
next
slide,
this
is
where
we
come
in,
and
I
can't
cover
what
you
know
who
we
are
and
blocked
our
credit
as
well
as
kevin
has
previously.
But
again
we
are
an
institutional
investment
form.
We
are
structured,
credit
professionals,
well
kevin
jack
and
I'm
not
our
I'm,
coming
more
from
the
blockchain
defy
space
to
help
support
that.
C
But
again,
the
primary
primary
team
is
professionals
focused
on
underwriting
structuring
and
managing
risks
on
behalf
of
maker,
and
we
have
a
purview
kevin
if
you
want
to
chime
in
on,
like
the
opportunity
set
that
we're
looking
at
and
how
we
as
blocked
our
credit
uniquely
bring
that
to
maker.
If
there's
any
piece
you
want
to
chime
in,
there
feel
free.
C
C
B
There's
a
lot
of
ossification
in
traditional
finance,
there's
a
lot
of
basically
no
incentive
or
or
desire
to
innovate,
and
for
us
every
step
along
this
we're
trying
to
do.
You
know
something
different,
so
market
analysis
in
terms
of
sourcing,
we're
very
confident
that
we
have
access
to
the
best
deals.
B
B
B
There
was
very
little
retention
from
someone
who
brought
a
deal
to
you
know
investors
right,
so
they
might
issue
a
hundred
dollars
worth
of
loans,
but
then
they
would
go
out
and
sell
a
hundred
dollars
worth
of
loans,
and
so
they've
risked
they've
derived
themselves
completely.
Their
objective
is
to
just
continue
to
you
know,
run
this
cycle
as
much
as
possible
and
rate
origination
fees
for
us
we're
aligned
the
entire
like
the
entirety
of
the
investment
we
put
in
capital
that
will
not
get
returned
unless
makers,
capital,
and
so
what
that
does.
B
Is
it
forces
us
to
basically
align
our
interests
with
maker
in
the
sense
that
we're
not
going
to
go
out
and
do
things
that
we
wouldn't
do,
because
any
losses
that
occur
are
borne
by
us
first
and
foremost,
and
that's
very
different
and
that's
something?
That's
happened
in
the
traditional
securitization
markets
after
the
financial
as
well,
where
now
by
regula
by
regulation,
you
are
forced,
you
are
forced.
Yeah,
sorry
is.
That
is.
A
B
C
B
Okay,
awesome,
sorry
about
that.
I
I
wasn't
sure
if
I
just
like
systematically
went
and
like
exited
every
app
that
I
could-
and
I
thought
I'd
fix
that
so
thank
you.
Thank
you
for
bringing
that
up,
but
yeah.
So
I
mean
I
think
this
is
something
that
we
just
know
is
best
practice.
I
mean
it
just
also
just
makes
sense
from
a
first
principles.
Incentives
basis
like
you
need
to
have
counterparties
that
are
coming
in
and
putting
skin
in
the
game.
B
B
B
We
try
to
do
all
of
these
different
things
right
from
the
get-go
in
part,
because
I
think
ari
paul
would
actually
kill
me
if
we
did
anything
that
was
deleterious
to
his
investment
in
maker
and
his
thesis
maker,
but
then
also
just
because
it's
the
right
thing
to
do
and
and
it's
something
that
if
we
set
that
bar
today,
anyone
who
looks
at
this
in
the
future
will
know
that
that's
what's
expected
and
that's
what's
necessary
in
order
to
win
the
trust
of
the
maker
community.
So
there's
that
piece
of
it.
B
Obviously,
I
would
say
I
mean
there's
not
a
ton
to
talk
about
in
terms
of
market
analysis.
It's
pretty
straightforward
happy
to
go
into
a
lot
of
the
theses
we
have
around
this.
I
would
say
the
one
thing
that
really
separates
us
is
in
the
maker
forums.
There
was
a
pretty
dynamic
conversation
about
cryptocurrencies
and
credit
cards.
We
are
actively
looking
to
back
companies
that
are
bridging
the
gap
between
blockchain
infrastructure
and
and
real-world
assets
effectively.
And
so
that's
that's
really.
That's
really.
B
A
B
On
the
underwriting
and
execution
side,
you
really
need
to
understand
exactly
what
the
loan
unit
economics
are.
What
the
operating
company's
financial
is.
You
know
effectively
all
the
risks
right
like
these
are
things
that
for
us
in
our
prior
stops,
we
spent
a
lot
of
time.
Thinking
about
it
was
in
fact
the
only
thing
that
we
that
we
were
supposed
to
be
doing,
and
it
was
also
a
much
more
complicated
and
intense
investment
process
than
currently.
B
You
know
the
types
of
assets
that
we're
looking
at
right
now,
and
the
reason
that
I
say
this
is
in
traditional
financial
markets
or
public
securitizations.
In
order
to
basically
generate
hedge
fund-like
returns,
you
had
to
sit
in
the
bottom
of
the
capital
structure.
You
had
to
take
the
first
loss
position
yourself
here,
we're
actually
protecting
maker
through
two
sources
of
capital.
One
is
ours,
and
then
the
other
is
typically
originator.
B
Equity
that
sits
below
us
in
a
senior
secured
facility,
and
so
there
are
layers
of
capital
in
which
maker's
position
is
very
as
at
a
very
low
ltv.
Basically,
and
that's
something
that
we're
just
laser
focused
on,
it's
ultimately
like
the
right
type
of
asset
for
makers.
Real
world
asset
like
ex
like
exploration,.
C
B
Us
it's
just
it's
it's
an
asset
that
we
know
understand
that
we
used
to
compete
in
a
much
more
competitive
and
intense
part
of
the
capital
structure,
and
now
we're
focused
on
senior
loans
ourselves.
So
it's
a,
I
think
it's
the
right
fit
in
terms
of
execution.
I
mean
I,
I
would
say
a
lot
of
the
execution
side
of
things
comes
from
repetitions.
B
A
No,
I
don't
think
so.
The
one
thing
I'd
flag
is.
We
have
a
question
in
the
in
the
question
bar
there
from
raphael.
What
kind
of
loans
have
you
dealt
with
in
the
past
and
what
are
you
most
excited
for
in
the
next
five
years?
So
I'll
take
the
first
crack
at
answering
that
one
right
now,
since
it
is
relevant
and
on
topic.
A
So
all
of
us,
myself,
anand
and
kevin
all
touch
different
products,
but
there's
a
lot
of
commonality
here
so
to
just
start
going
off
a
couple
of
the
ones
that
I
myself
have
looked
at
closely
in
the
past,
largely
in
and
around
the
consumer
space.
So
consumer,
unsecured
lending,
think
lending
club
think
upstart,
auto
loans
again
subprime
to
prime
kind
of
different
beasts
in
between
there,
but
but
definitely
all
products
that
I've
looked
at
in
the
past,
as
well
as
longer
term
bank
debt
and
leverage
loans
kevin.
B
Yeah,
I
mean
everything
from
you
know
traditional
abs,
so
it
could
be
prime
credit
cards,
prime
auto
loans,
man.
What
else
is
there
auto
leases
fleet
financing
all
the
way
to
the
most
esoteric
stuff?
You
can
find
in
the
abs
space,
whether
that's
aircraft
leasing
like
what
anand
has
done
deep
dives
in
in
the
past,
rail
car
leases,
drug
drugs,
royalty
bonds,
obviously
subprime
mortgages
mortgages
in
general,
pretty
much
anything
that
is
a
promise
of
future
cash
flows.
B
I've
looked
at
in
my
time
at
city,
I
would
say,
like
our
desk
at
city,
was
extremely
unique,
because
we
were
given
a
mandate
to
do
anything
that
wasn't
mortgages
and
asset-backed
finance,
and
so
that's
what
we
did.
I
think
that's
the
type
of
experience
that
is
relevant
here,
but
also
having
actual
operating
experience
working
at
a
lender
running
operations
there.
You
know
understanding
what
the
companies
that
we're
directly
backing
today
are
going
through,
I
think,
is
really
exciting
and
then
what
are
we
most
excited
for
in
the
next
five
years?
B
B
I
guess
like
a
week
and
a
half
ago
now,
and
so
anyone
who
wants
to
like
talk
about
why
we
feel
so
strongly
about
this
or
wants
to
know
a
little
bit
about
why
we
feel
so
strongly
about
this.
I
I'd
urge
you
to
read
that,
because
it's
it's
a
pretty
in-depth
conversation
around
securitizations
and
why
we
why
we
absolutely
just
think
like
this
is
a
real
use
case
and
it
can
have
actual
tangible,
like
very
tangible,
positive
benefits
for
the
world
in
terms
of
efficiency.
B
In
terms
of
fairness,
a
lot
of
the
things
that
defy
is
about.
I
think
we
can
bring
it
by
actually
replicating.
You
know
the
core
things
that
are
necessary
that
helped
the
real
world.
You
know
traditional
financial
systems
scale
to
where
it
is
today.
We
can
basically
redo
all
of
that
from
the
ground
up
and
and
and
maker
plays
a
key
role
in
it.
B
It's
something
that
we've
spent
the
last
eight
ish
months
honestly,
like
digging
super
deep
into
and
understanding
every
piece
of
it
and
and
it's
just
it's
such
a
cool
project,
and
it
has
so
much
potential
and
it
has
such
a
head
start
on
everyone
else.
Right
I
mean
we
talked
to
ave.
We
talked
to
compound
all
these
guys,
like
they're
all
trying
to
do
the
same
thing,
but
they're
not
going
to
catch
maker
if
maker
runs-
and
this.
B
Are
going
if
you
look
at
ave's,
go
stable
coin
thing
like
they're
talking
about
bringing
in
facilitators
doing
real
world
assets
like
like
maker
is,
is
charting
that
path,
and
it
has
such
a
huge
advantage
and
we
really
want
to
basically
help
help
make
her
get
to
that
point
help
you
know
fintechs
and
help
the
real
world
asset
originators
like
kind
of
bridge
into
this
technology,
because
there's
real
use
cases
for
them
as
well
and
and
yeah.
So
I
would
say.
B
A
B
Yeah
so
yeah,
so
we
won't
be
using
an
intermediary
like
like
hp,
hvb
or
6s,
we're
doing
everything
through
centrifuge.
I
mean
a
huge
part
of
of
our
desire
to
do
this
is
to
to
like
today
the
systems
run
in
parallel
right
and
in
many
ways
you
have
to
do
both
and
you
have
to
do
both
at
a
high
level,
which
is
why
you
know
kevin
is
here,
which
is
why
we
partnered
with
centrifuge
and
the
like
right.
We
want
to
bring
all
of
these
things
on
chain.
B
B
There
will
be
real
world
entities
right,
but
it
like
it'll
be
block
towers.
It
won't
be
maker
for
lack
of
a
better
term.
So
I
would
say
I
don't
know
if
that
fully
answers
your
question
paper,
but
let
us
know,
I
would
say
an
intermediary
and
then,
oh
sorry,
the
second
piece
of
your
question.
If
an
intermediary
is
required,
can
you
provide
some
background
on
why
there
are
two
major
ones
that
I
think
are
really
important?
B
One
is
the
role
that
genesis
plays
in
that
hvb
proposal,
which
is
effectively.
You
know
someone
who
can
just
swap
the
swap
dollars
into
die
into
something
that
the
defy
ecosystem
can
can
bridge
now.
Eventually,
one
of
the
reasons
why
we're
using
centrifuge,
while
we're
trying
to
bring
in
fintech
operators
is
so
that
they
will
accept
die
in
the
future
right
today.
It's
not
really
the
case,
but
in
three
to
four
years.
If
maker
is
scaling,
this
like
it
could
very
well
be
possible.
B
B
It
basically
looks
out
for
the
interests
of
the
note
holders
so
in
the
event
that
there's
some
sort
of
like
misallocation
of
funds
or
there's
a
there's,
a
situation
in
which
you
know
the
assets
on
one
side,
which
typically
aren't
actively
managed,
but
in
the
event
that
they
are
like,
if
that
puts
the
asset
manager
on
one
side
or
the
assets
on
one
side
at
odds
with
the
the
best
interests
of
the
note
holders
on
the
other,
the
trustee
is
there
to
intermediate.
So
you
know
we
follow
the
same
structure.
B
I
mean
this
is
par
for
the
course
in
terms
of
traditional
securitizations
and
and
something
that
we're
excited
to
see,
because
the
reality
is
maker's
position
for
us,
like
this
super
senior
like
piece
maker
like
everything
once
it's
in
once
it's
in
stables,
it's
it's
effectuated
through
code,
there's
no
legal
entity
for
maker.
There's!
No,
like
you
know,
it's
all
done
the
same
way
that
it's
already
done,
but
getting
that
dollar
into
stables
is
critical
right.
B
B
That's
what
we're
doing
from
the
real
world
side
going
into
d5
like
there's
two
parallel
systems
right
now
we
found
a
way
to
connect,
I
would
say
honestly,
even
85
percent
of
it
there's
some
of
the
stuff
that
you
know
hasn't
been
really
like
figured
out,
but
we've
figured
out
ways
to
get
there
and
over
the
next
three
to
four
years.
I
expect
us
to
merge
this
to
a
completely
on-chain
economy.
That's
what
our
fund
is
is
oriented
around.
B
A
Yeah,
the
follow-up
to
that
frank,
has
a
question
regarding
the
finances
structure
that
you
just
described
a
couple
parts
he
asks.
Can
you
expand
a
bit
more
in
regards
to
your
proposed
stability,
fee
and
you're
thinking
behind
the
proposed
four
percent?
It
might
be
the
highest
he's
ever
seen
personally
and
also
you'd
like
to
hear
why
it's
important
that
the
stability
is
fixed.
B
Yeah
kevin
might
be
better
equipped
to
answer
some
of
this
stuff,
but
I
would
I
would
say
this
I
mean
one.
I
think
we
just
wanted
like
in
terms
of
the
like
the
stability
fee
itself
like
we
wanted
to
come
in
and
do
something
attractive
like
and
also
raise
the
bar.
I
mean
it
it
like
that's
really
what
it
comes
down
to
like.
We
wanted
to
get
to
a
point
in
which
it
was
clear
that
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
not.
I
don't
know
it's
not
a
it's,
not
a
grift
right.
B
It's
like
no
we're
coming
in
this
is
a.
This
is
a
very
reasonable
like
like
much
higher
like
stability
fee,
as
mentioned
like
than
anybody
has
offered
to
date,
and
and
that's
what
maker
deserves
and
maker
is
our
customer
right.
So
I
think
that
that's
like
kind
of
how
we
view
it
the
other
piece
when
it
comes
to
fix
versus
floating.
I
mean
for
us
a
lot
of
the
assets
that
we're
financing
are
fixed,
right
and
so
part.
B
An
asset
liability
mismatch
on
the
investment
side,
of
which
you
know,
I
don't
know
like
we're
like,
as
I
mentioned
in
some
of
the
posts,
we're
certainly
open
to
to
changing
this
in
the
future.
But
I,
but
I
genuinely
think
from
from
the
conversations
we've
had
with
the
maker
team.
It
actually
would
just
take
it's
a
lot
simpler
to
do
this.
You
need
oracles,
you
need
some
sort
of
like
sofer
oracle
or
libor
oracle.
B
I
mean
not
libor
anymore,
but
like
so
for
oracle
to
the
real
world
and
like
that,
introduces
a
whole
host
of
problems
that
I
think
we
can
figure
out
over
time,
but
at
this
exact
juncture,
we're
just
starting
this
merge
right
at
least
starting
it
in
a
like
institutional
and
professional
way
and
and
yeah.
That's
that's
kind
of
how
I
would
answer
that
question.
If
it's
not
sufficient
frank,
please,
please
feel
free
to
to
say
something
in
the
in
the
in
the
chat
and
yeah.
C
B
C
A
lot
of
guidance
and
lessons
from
existing
10
like
pools
where
we've
like
seen
stability
fees,
range
from
like
3.5
to
6.,
so
like
to
our
point,
we're
we're
working
towards,
like
lowering
the
cost
of
capital
for
the
originators
that
we
work
with
and
from
kevin's
point.
The
four
percent
was
a
reasonable
starting
point
to
the
conversations
of
our
like
maker
integration.
C
A
C
The
originators
and
having
aligned
interest
there
again,
we
we
don't
succeed
unless
makers
succeed,
so
we're
highly
aligned
in
making
sure
that
the
decisions,
the
deals
that
we
structure
and
make
are
aligned
in
that
manner.
And
then,
finally,
we
take
an
active
approach
towards
portfolio
management.
You
know:
kevin
has
ex
experience
from
cap
chase
jack
and
anna
we're
all
focused
on
making
sure
that
not
only
the
financial
risks
are
addressed,
but
also
the
operational
execution.
C
B
Well,
jack
feel
free
to
feel
free
to
continue.
I
just
want
to
quickly
also
mention,
because
I
see
roberts
robert
jordan's,
like
post
in
in
the
chat,
and
I
think
one
piece
of
the
portfolio
management
and
the
active
management
is
for
us,
because
our
junior
capital
sits
below
maker.
Like
it's
our
it's,
it's
our
incentive
to
go
and
actively
like
I
mean
we're
a
hedge
fund
right.
We
we
actively
manage
this
portfolio.
B
So
if
it's
starting
to
get
to
a
point
where
it
looks
like
oh
we're,
gonna
take
a
loss
on
our
position.
Right,
which
sits
below
makers
like
our
objective
is
to
is
to
liquidate
the
deal
and
to
get
out
of
it
right
and
return
capital
to
make
or
return
capital
to
ourselves.
I
think
that's
a
very
different
situation
than
most
of
the
proposals
so
far
where
they
don't
have
that
incentive
right.
B
If
you
look
at
someone
else,
who's
just
selling
loans
to
maker
like
and
they're
taking
a
fee
on
an
on
an
ongoing
basis
like
their
objective,
is
to
leave
it
in
there
as
long
as
possible.
Right
they
don't
care.
What
happens
they?
Don't
they
don't?
They
didn't
put
any
skin
in
the
game
like
for
us
like
we
have
to
focus
on
it.
Our
lps
demand
it
right
like
we're
like
we
are
focused
on
principal
preservation.
B
C
A
Yeah,
I
would
just
make
one
additional
point
there
when
you
think
about
how
much
has
to
go
wrong
on
the
downside,
when
you
provide
junior
capital
right
in
the
spvs,
that
we
are
funding,
there's
an
originator
of
the
loans
sitting
below
us
and
we
underwrite
our
position
above
them
to
zero
percent
loss.
So
we
believe
with
strong
conviction
that
our
portion
will
not
take
a
loss
now
our
portion
is
then
translated
over
to
maker
and
maker
takes
a
senior
position
on
that.
A
B
I'm
sorry
if
I
pronounce
that
incorrectly.
So
in
our
proposal
it
is
30
minimum
junior
capital.
So
what
that
might
look
like
for
something
like?
Let's
say
we
have
a
deal
where
you
know
it
might
be
an
auto
loan
or
something
like
that.
Just
hypothetically
and
you
come
in
and
we
would
do
the
top
70
of
something
like
that,
then,
basically,
what
we're
saying
is
from
the
top
70
there.
B
We
are
cutting
that
and
we're
taking
the
bottom
30
of
that
so
on
the
whole
loan
it
would
be
like
0
to
30
is
the
originator.
That
would
be
the
subordination
on
their
behalf.
From
our
perspective,
we
then
take
the
30
to
51,
basically,
and
then
maker
takes
the
51
to
100
so
like.
If
there
was
a
hundred
thousand
dollar
car
maker,
has
a
49
000
loan
on
it,
which
is
you
know,
contrast
that
to
a
traditional,
auto
loan
security,
the
public
markets
finance
the
top
90
of
that.
B
B
Trenches,
I
mean
it
depends
on
a
lot
of
different
things
like
we
have
to
deal
with.
Captur
cash
drag
on.
Our
position
depends
on
what
the
underlying
assets
are
are
yielding
themselves
oftentimes
we're
looking
at
deals
that
are
anywhere
from
eight
to
ten
percent
and
over
time,
like
the
objective
is
to
lower
the
cost
of
capital
to
innovative,
like
credit
like
products
that
are
bridging
the
gap
between
d5
and
the
real
world.
B
Like
some
of
the
cryptocurrency
credit
card,
guys,
I
would
say
what
we're
targeting
is
something
like
in
the
hedge
fund,
like,
I
would
say,
like
15ish
percent,
something
like
that,
which
is
what
our
investors
expect
and
ultimately,
I
think
any
is
pretty
much
pretty
fairly
reasonable
compared
to
you
know
what
most
funds
are
looking
for,
but
that's
the
that's
the
that's.
That's
how
I
would
kind
of
like
frame
that
I
guess
and
to.
B
B
A
C
On
to
the
next
slide
as
well,
because
we
talked
a
little
bit
about
the
spvs,
you
know
not
not
having
an
intermediary
any
meter
working
with
centrifuge,
and
I
also
see
robert's
comment
on
the
kind
of
utilization
of
mid
21-22.
So
you
know
we
agree.
So
essentially
the
slide
is
supposed
to
be
written,
read,
read
from
right
to
left,
which
is
a
little
counterintuitive,
but
that's
my
apologies.
C
Essentially.
What
we're
looking
at
a
high
level
right
is
applying
our
expertise,
our
investment
process
from
investment
focus
to
go
into
the
market
and
find
and
source
these.
These
deals
right
and
ultimately
they're
a
set
of
asset,
originators
that
are
fintech
generally
fintech
in
nature,
but
also
can
range
from
anywhere
from
again
green
energy
to
auto
and
other
types
of
markets
and
securities
securities,
but
bringing
those
to
the
maker
community
via
an
indentured
trust
structure
that
has
been
studied
and
worked
through
on
via
centrifuge.
B
Yeah,
I
just
realized-
I
was
on
mute,
sorry,
but
to
answer
that
direct
question,
you
know.
To
be
honest,
I
don't
know
if
this
product
generally
exists
in
traditional
financial
markets,
I
think
the
closest
thing
would
be
like
kind
of
back
leverage
to
to
a
structured
credit
fund,
of
which
you
would
expect
on
an
on
a
fund
level.
I
would
actually
say
the
market
rate
is
probably
closer
to
five
percent.
B
Something
like
that
today
for
us,
like
there's
a
ton
of
operational
costs
that
we
have
to
eat
to
basically
manage
this,
and
so
that's
why
we've
asked
for
four
percent,
which
we
believe
is
super
fair
compared
to
the
rest
of
it.
But
in
the
interest
of
transparency,
I
think
the
market
level
for
something
like
this
is
five
percent.
B
We
are
bringing
in
and
structuring
individual
asset
level
deals
to
to
make
or
a
maker
is
funding
the
super
senior
piece
of
each
of
these
individual,
like
spvs
and
asset
levels,
that's
different
than
backing
a
hedge
fund
like
fortress
or
something
like
that
across
their
entire
portfolio,
where
one
loss
from
one
part
of
their
portfolio
could
actually
seriously
seriously
impact.
You
that's
isolated
in
our
case,
because
they're
individual
deals
and
that's.
B
Works
so
centrifuge
you
can
see
like
if
you
go
on
tin
lake,
you
can
see
like
each
of
the
individual
deals
are
brought
by
different,
like
originators
and
from
our
perspective,
that's
just
a
would
say,
like
a
much
stronger,
like
position
to
be
in,
but
yeah
happy
to
happy
to
go
more
deeply
into
that.
I
would
say
it's
a
pretty
opaque
part
of
the
market,
even
for
people
who
you
know
operate
in
it.
Like
that's
one
of
the
things
that
I
generally
hate
about.
Traditional.
B
C
And
yeah,
so
just
thanks
for
addressing
that
question.
So
just
summarizing.
This
is
sort
of
the
last
slide
of
formal
presentation,
but
just
summarizing
this
we
are
leveraging
well
understood
processes
and
practices
that
have
existed
in
the
make
community
for
quite
some
time
to
get
this
to,
to
apply
to
our
the
transactional
structure
in
combination
to
the
strategic
and
process
and
kind
of
alignment,
advantages
that
block
tower
and
maker
share
in
sourcing
the
best
deals
that
work
for
all.
That's
the
end
of
the
formal
presentation.
C
The
next
slide
is
really
just
about
leaving
some
time
for
some
questions.
So
if
there's
any
more
questions
in
the
community,
we
welcome
those.
Otherwise
you
know
I
speak.
I
speak
for
the
team
to
say
we
really
appreciate
the
time,
really
appreciate
the
engagement
and
really
really
looking
look
forward
to
continue
to
work
at
this
journey
with
the
community
together.
B
B
B
If
we
hadn't
done
the
work
to
really
basically
understand
how
can
this
happen
in
a
way
that
the
regulators
that
we
speak
directly
to
I
mean
chris
john
carlo,
is
like
on
our
on
our
board
of
advisors
here,
crypto
dad,
like
we
talked
to
him
about
this,
we've
talked
to
you
know
like
we.
We
have
we,
wouldn't
we
wouldn't
be
doing
this
if
we
thought
that
it
was
putting
anyone
at
risk,
including
ourselves,
I
mean
ultimately
like
we
have
to
answer
to
our
investors.
B
If
we
do
something
crazy
because
we're
locking
up
junior
capital
in
these
deals,
so
we're
happy
to
go,
you
know
have
those
conversations
more
broadly.
I
think
it
involves
a
lot
of
like
nuanced
understanding
of
different
things,
but
we're
happy,
like
I
mean
part
of
the
role
that
we
want
to
like
really
focus
on
here,
is
just
like
education
about
a
lot
of
this
stuff.
So
if
there
are
ever
any
questions
like
feel
free
to
hit
us
up
on
the
forums
feel
free
to
you
know,
shoot
us
emails.
B
We're
happy
to
have
more
of
these
calls
like
it
doesn't
have
to
be
a
one-time
thing
like
we
we're
happy
to
do
these
regularly.
I
think
it's
something
that
actually
grenade
has
mentioned
to
to
us
and
jack
in
particular,
was
just
like
you
know,
for
the
first
time
in
some
of
the
like
real
world
asset
posts,
like
we've
come
in
with
thoughts
around
like
this
is
how
we
price
it.
A
Gentlemen,
thank
you
so
much
for
your
presentation.
Will
we
perform
for
any
last
minute
questions
while
those
are
trickling
in?
I
would
like
to
call
out
that
green
light.
Pull
for
your
lipsticks.
Application
is
currently
live.
It
looks
like
we
have
two
out
of
the
15
delegates
with
over
a
thousand
fpr
delegated
to
them
at
vogue.
Yet
with
about
12
days
remaining.
A
So
as
the
community
needs
help
making
decisions
forum
handles
for
each
of
the
attendees
today
is
listed
on
the
call
promotion
forum
post,
as
I
said,
we'll
make
sure
that
this
material
is
available
and
seeing
that
there
are
no
further
questions
rolling
in
just
want
to.
Thank
you
guys
again,
we'd
be
happy
to
host
you
for
a
follow-up
session
anytime
with
that
keep
up
to
date
at
forum.maker.com
and
see
on
the
next
cloud
of
rockford.