►
Description
“Nebula Capital Partners LTD (“NCP”) is a UK based investment advisor that was established to focus on investments in portfolios of granular credit assets originated by Western-European FinTech lending platforms (i.e. credit assets originated by technology enabled non-bank specialty finance credit origination, underwriting and servicing platforms).”
Host:
Forum - juanjuan
Chat - juanjuan
Markus Hunold:
Forum - MH_NCP
Nebula Capital:
Website - https://www.nebula-capital.com/
MIP6 Collateal Onboarding Application - https://forum.makerdao.com/t/ncp01-drop-mip6-application-european-point-of-sales-consumer-finance-portfolio/9600
A
Everyone
welcome
to
another
maker,
dao
collateral,
coral,
and
today
we
have
nebula
capital
partners
which
are
going
to
be
talking
talking
about
their
oh
yeah,
the
mechanism
and
how
everything
works
regarding
real
world
finance
so
for
well.
My
name
is
juan.
I'm
the
facilitator
of
the
sustainable,
consistent
scaling
core
unit
and
I'm
joined
by
well,
among
others,
leah
from
centrifuge
also
sebastian
from
from
real
world
finance
core
unit.
So
is
there
something
that
you
would
like
to
say
before
I
introduce
the
team
or.
A
B
So
also,
once
again,
welcome
from
my
site
to
this
community
call
very
excited
to
be
here
thanks
for
taking
the
time-
and
I
suggest
we
dive
right
in
pretty
packed
agenda
here
and
just
as
a
heads
up,
so
these
slides
going
to
be
made
available
online,
and
some
of
it
is
repetitive
of
what's
in
the
application,
so
we're
gonna
maybe
skip
one
or
two
bullets
here,
but
you
can
read
up
on
it
afterwards,
of
course,
in
terms
of
agenda.
What
we
thought
we
cover
here
today
and
I'll
kick
that
off.
B
So
my
name
is
marcus.
I'm
the
founder
of
nebula
capital
partners,
which
is
ncp
or
the
sponsor
in
this
transaction,
and
I
provide
the
introduction
here
to
start
it
off.
I
then
hand
over
to
charlie
and
johnny
from
tinker
who
are
the
or
who
is
the
asset.
Originator
and
charlie
is
the
ceo
and
germany
is
in
charge
of
many
many
projects,
and
so
we
thought
we
summarized
it
here
as
special
projects
and
amongst
others,
it's
going
to
be
this
decentralized
finance
opportunity.
B
I'm
going
to
do
that
and
leah
and
colin
I'm
going
to
chip
in
here
and
afterwards
we
left
some
time
for
for
q,
a
briefly
to
then
nebula
capital
partners.
So
the
background
is
a
business
I
founded
earlier
this
year.
It's
a
london-based
investment,
advisory
company
and
really
the
focus
is
on
bridging
the
gap
between
what
I
call
fintech
lending
opportunities
or
fintech
lending
originated
credit
assets
and
the
decentralized
finance
ecosystem.
B
And
why
do
I
think
this
opportunity
is
attractive
or
what
really
led
me
to
establish
this
business
is,
on
the
one
hand,
this
fintech
lending
as
an
asset
class.
I
consider-
or
I
think
it's
very,
very
attractive
from
a
risk,
adjusted
return
perspective
and
really
it
is
something
that
has
only
emerged
recently
because
they
are
the
ongoing
disruption
with
with
fintech
and
fintech,
enabled
lending
platforms
and
charlie
is
going
to
gonna
elaborate
that
further
really
made
these
credit
opportunities
available
for
investment,
which
hadn't
really
existed
before.
B
At
the
same
time,
there
isn't
really
the
ability
for
institutional
investors-
and-
I
would
say
maker-
is
certainly
on
its
way
towards
being
an
institutional
investor,
to
really
invest
in
these
assets
efficiently
and
at
scale,
and
why
do
I
think,
specifically,
for
the
decentralized
finance?
Were
these
attractive
assets?
B
It's
twofold
one
there's
a
very
granular
asset
base,
so
usually
talk
about
pools
of
loans
here
which
provide
a
statistical
investment
approach.
So
very
data
driven
sort
of
the
granularity
provides
a
diversification
which
mitigates
the
risk
in
a
certain
extent,
and
that
then
itself
lends
itself
quite
quite
nicely
towards
the
data
and
and
tech
enabled
the
world
of
decentralized
finance.
B
Because
of
that
granularity
and
we're
talking
about
thousands
and
thousands
of
loans
here,
depending
on
the
portfolio
size.
Of
course,
you're
going
to
have
daily
repayments
and
redrawings,
so
there's
an
underlying
cash
flow
velocity
in
these
portfolios,
which
allow
a
certain
liquidity
in
terms
of
redemptions
and
redrawings
of
these
tokens-
and
you
know
the
centrifuge
technology-
that's
of
course
something
that
is
provided
for,
which
I
can
think
is
quite
an
attractive
feature
here
that
that
allows
these
two
words:
the
fintech
landing
in
the
d5
world
to
come
together.
B
Lastly,
where
do
I
see
the
role
of
ncp
or
what
we
are
doing
here?
We
really
want
to
be
the
interface
between
these
two
two
words.
So
we
wanna-
or
we
are
an
independent
investment
advisor-
we're
gonna,
help
structure
the
deal,
we're
gonna,
help
monitor
the
deal
and
we're
not
gonna
do
this
as
a
pure
advisor
or
in
a
pure
advisor
capacity,
but
we're
actually
gonna
invest
into
these
transactions
in
a
very
much
incentive
aligned
way.
B
Just
very
briefly
my
background,
and
it's
also
on
the
applications.
I
won't
go
into
much
detail,
but
I
come
from
a
traditional
finance
background
and
last
15
years
with
various
institutions
in
the
investment
management
industry
started
off
with
citigroup
in
the
investment
banking
division.
There
then
moved
to
goldman
sachs
spent
a
couple
of
years
in
private
equity
and
private
credit,
their
merchant
bank
business
and
then
in
2013
I
moved
to
kkr,
which
is
international
as
a
management
business
and
spent
the
last
eight
years
there
helping
build
their
credit
business
here
in
europe.
B
In
my
last
role,
I
was
responsible
for
the
credit
business
in
the
dark
region,
so
germany,
austria
and
switzerland,
and
that
really
included
a
whole
host
of
activities,
including
sourcing
underwriting
and
monitoring
of
transactions
and
then
also
across
a
variety
of
credit
products.
So
senior
debt,
junior
debt,
structured
credit,
but
also
special
situations.
B
It
is
once
again
to
illustrate
what's
ncp's
value
at
in
this
transaction
and,
as
I've
mentioned
before,
it's
really
this
interface
between
fintech
enabled
lending
platforms
like
tinker
and
the
various
tindec
ports.
We're
looking
to
establish
here
in
the
month
and
years
to
come
and,
of
course,
not
being
exhaustive
here.
But
there
are
the
key
activities
which
we're
going
to
conduct
as
one
investment
sourcing,
we're
going
to
do
an
investment
due
diligence
and
facilitate
that
process,
both
in
terms
of
all
in
terms
of
platform
management,
but
also
underlying
data
and
track
record.
B
We're
going
to
help
structuring
the
transaction,
which
I
think
is
especially
relevant
in
the
d5
context
and
the
regulatory
aspects
that
we
have
to
address.
But
then
also
once
the
deal
is
done,
we're
going
to
help
in
the
post,
investment
monitoring,
so
we're
going
to
provide
risk,
return,
analytics
and
we're
going
to
monitor
and
create
the
platform
interactions
that
are
certainly
required
here
between
the
community
and
the
the
originator
like,
like
a
tinker.
B
We're
also
going
to
help
optimize
the
portfolio.
So
the
idea
here
is
really
to
have
an
evergreen
or,
of
course,
evergreen
structure
whereby
proceeds
either
from
additional
debt
capacity
or
from
cash
proceeds
from
repayment.
It's
going
to
be
reinvested,
so
we're
going
to
make
sure
that
these
reinvestments
have
been
in
line
with
the
eligibility
criteria,
and
hence
the
mandate
that's
going
to
be
underlying
the
the
the
maker
transaction
here,
but
also
we're
going
to
take
care
of
hedging
in
tinker's
example.
B
It's
going
to
be
euro
denominated
portfolio,
so
we're
going
to
have
really
to
bridge
this
euro
to
us
dollar
to
die
and
we're
going
to
implement
that
program
here
again.
Institutional
approach
and
institutional
quality
there's
also
gonna,
be
certainly
some
workouts.
We
have
to
do
it.
You
know,
given
the
statistical
nature
here,
we're
gonna
have
defaults
in
the
portfolio
that
need
to
be
dealt
with,
and
that's
something
also
that
the
ncp
will
will
help
and
take
care
of
in
terms
of
structure.
B
B
There's
a
reputation
aspect
where
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we
have
an
ongoing
partnership
approach,
but
also
very
much
short-term
and
financially
driven,
there's
going
to
be
lineup
of
incentives
whereby
ncp
and
the
asset
originator
in
this
case
think
are
going
to
hold
the
10
tokens
here.
So
I'm
going
to
take
any
first
losses
or
the
residual
risk
of
the
underlying
cash
flows
here
and,
lastly,
which
I
think
is
important
point
to
note.
B
So
this
whole
structure,
the
spv
which
will
hold
the
loans,
will
be
set
up
in
a
bankruptcy,
remote
setup
and
you
have
almost
a
double
triple
protection
here.
One
is
in
case,
something
were
to
happen
to
the
asset
originator.
Ncp
can
step
in
or
is
already
in
the
in
the
mix
and
help
unwind
or
continue
the
the
the
portfolio
depending
on
what
the
the
preference
is.
Vice
versa,
if
ncp
were
to
stop
operating,
certainly
the
asset
originator
could
stop
in
and,
of
course,
is
incentivized
because
there
is
a
tin
holding.
B
And
lastly,
both
of
these
scenarios
are
supported
by
an
external
corporate
service
provider
who
will
provide
the
spv
infrastructure,
so
the
local
director,
the
local
accountants
and
various
other
demonstration
service
providers
provided
by
this
corporate
service
provider
will
of
course
continue.
Even
if
there
was
an
event
that
would
impair
ncps
or
the
asset
originator's
ability
to
take
care
of
the
transaction
here,
and
we
to
summarize,
the
idea
of
our
approach
is
to
really
take
a
well-established
institutional
grade,
real-world
structure
and
substitute.
B
What
would
ordinarily
be
a
secularization
note
with
the
tokens
and
quote-unquote
substitute,
would
ordinarily
be
an
institutional,
real
world
investor
with
the
maker
community
in
the
makeup
protocol,
and
then,
of
course,
it
also
includes
working
with
re-institutional
great
asset
originators
who
have
scale
who
have
a
track
record.
I
think
this
is
the
perfect
time
to
hand
it
over
to
to
charlie
here,
who
is
the
ceo
of
tinker,
which
I
would
certainly
consider
being
one
of
them,
charlie.
D
D
If
we're
talking
about
our
vision,
we
really
want
to
be
the
most
loved
and
most
responsive
or
deferred
payments
partner
in
the
netherlands
and
beyond,
and
that
sounds
maybe
a
little
fluffy.
But
what
that
means
in
practice
is
most
love
means
we
are
going
to
have
the
highest
market
share
in
nps
across
the
consumer,
the
merchants,
but
also
our
own
employees,
and
we
use
extremely
easy
language.
D
No
technology,
no
special
terms
b2
language,
so
everyone
can
really
understand
in
finances,
are
notoriously
complex
by
definition,
and
some
companies
try
and
hide
things
away
in
in
the
terms
and
conditions
or
use
words
that
are
not
easy
to
understand
to
confuse
people.
None
of
this
and
most
responsible
for
us
really
means
in
the
end,
to
have
the
market
lowest
number
of
arrears.
D
So
that
means
they
have
the
lowest
number
of
people,
not
euro
values,
necessarily
but
people
that
are
gonna
get
into
payment
problems,
and
one
promise
that
we
have
is
that
we
will
never
have
any
hidden
fees.
So
you
will
not,
if
we're
looking
through
our
credit
agreements
or
overall
agreements
find
in
paragraph
280,
subparagraph
b,
some
hidden
fees
of
20
or
40
or
50
euros,
if
you're
not
paying
it
is.
It
does
not
necessarily
exclusively
refer
to
dutch,
you
know,
but
it's
primarily,
and
so
that
is
our
vision.
D
If
we're
then
going
to
our
mission
to
bring
that
maybe
a
little
bit
more
to
life,
what
we
are
saying
is:
we
are
innovating
payment
methods
with
a
sense
of
again
responsibility,
complete
dedication
and
care
to
achieve
our
responsible
record
sales,
as
you
will
also
see
later
on.
When
we
get
into
our
company
numbers,
we
exist
in
60
years.
We
are
doing
and
in
this
business
for
more
than
60
years.
Here
are
our
mission
targets
of
where
last
year
we
started
setting
them
on
the
four-year
road
map.
D
You
can
see
the
the
the
nature
of
the
targets.
The
innovation
is
really
around
the
product
offering
where
we
are
introducing
our
invoice
proposition
that
we
only
have
with
one
merchant
now
into
the
broader
dutch
landscape.
To
start
off
with,
we
are
going
to
launch
our
debit
card
proposition.
We
are
going
to
gain
our
transactional
volume
from
900
million
that
we
have
on
an
annual
basis.
D
D
We
are
looking
at
what
is
good
for
the
consumer.
Then
we
are
looking
at
what
we
are
good
at
and
if
we
then
find
something
that
is
good
for
the
consumer
that
we
are
good
at
and
ideally
our
competition
is
bad.
This
is
when
we
are
talking
to
the
regulator
and
say
there
is
something
that
needs
to
be
done,
and
we
have
done
that
last
year
with
the
verification
below
a
thousand
euros.
D
So
it's
dutch
local
regulation
that
you
only
have
to
verify
what
people
tell
you
about
the
income
and
expenses
when
they're,
making
a
credit
application
above
a
thousand
euros,
and
we
did
an
analysis
identified
that
the
most
people
with
payment
problems
are
actually
coming
from
below
a
thousand
euro.
Unsurprisingly,
because
there
is
no
requirements
to
verify,
we
have
talked
to
the
regulator
and
really
made
a
move
that
it
gets
pushed
into.
Market
verification
is
from
the
first
euro
that
finance
minister
announced
the
beginning
of
that
year.
D
Day
is
gonna
come,
and
we
are
very
proud
of
that,
because
that's
not
something
easily
done
by
by
a
consumer
credit
company
this
year
we're
gonna
tackle
the
late
payment
fees.
I
wanna
kept
them
in
the
market.
I
think
it's
irresponsible
how
some
of
the
binary
later
players
act
in
this
market
by
charging
x,
orbits
and
fees.
D
I've
done
a
purchase
myself
a
few
months
ago
and
not
paid
just
to
see
what
happens,
and
I'm
now
a
few
weeks
away
from
court
and
going
to
court
with
them.
So
they
are
taking
me
to
court
to
sue
me
into
private
insolvency
because
I
didn't
pay
and
the
original
20
euros
are
now
eight
euros
with
another
few
hundred
euros
coming
on
top
of
it,
so
that
practice
has
to
stop,
because
it
is
structural
in
this
market
and
well.
D
D
We
are
saying
we
are
going
to
fulfill
our
mission
targets,
but
only
within
the
guard
rails
that
we
are
setting
ourselves,
and
that
is
the
nps.
As
we
said,
that
is
the
merchant,
as
well
as
the
custom
nps.
The
reason
why
it
says
stabilize
here
in
this
fiscal
year,
because
we
have
just
carved
out
of
a
larger
group.
There
was
a
retail
group
and
we
are
now
a
complete
self-standing
business
for
the
first
time
in
our
history
and
we
expected
to
have
a
halo
effect
from
the
retailer
in
nps
and
sorry.
D
Nps
stands
for
net
promoters
core,
it's
a
measurement
about
how
how
willing
your
consumers
are
to
refer
you
to
their
friends
and
family.
So,
typically,
what
you
see,
especially
in
the
consumer
finance
sector,
is
that
you
have
a
negative
net
promoter's
code.
That
means
that
you
have
more
people
that
are
actually
talking
bad
about
you
and
then
they
are
willing
to
promote
it.
And
so
what
we
said
is
this
year,
we're
gonna
stabilize
it
we're
on
a
very
good
track
and
then
start
growing
again
for
the
same
for
the
enps.
D
That's
basically
the
employee
nps,
where
we're
asking
our
employees
how
happy
they
are
working
for
us
and
how
much
they
would
recommend
us
as
a
good
employer.
As
you
can
see,
last
year
we
have
been
negative,
but
the
minus
seven
believe
it
or
not
is
already
an
achievement.
We
came
from
-40,
so
it's
we're
at
minus
seven.
D
Now
we're
going
to
continue
promoting
that
the
well-being
of
our
employees
is
equally
important
and
the
relationship
with
our
consumers
and,
last
but
not
least,
we're
talking
about
our
risk
culture
where
we
started
last
year
to
really
define
our
whole
framework
and
for
every
measure
across
a
variety
of
pillars.
What
our
appetite
is
that
we
started
operationalizing
this
year
and
in
the
end,
I
think
that,
even
if
you're
talking
about
something
like
risk,
you
can
start
loving
it
if
you're
approaching
it
the
right
way.
C
A
D
A
D
Yeah
I
saw
it,
I
saw
the
chat
popping
up
and
I
tried
to
answer
it.
I'm
monitoring
the
chat
as
well:
okay,
perfect
yeah,
but
super
good.
If
I'm
missing
something,
please
put
it
out
at
any
point
in
time,
thanks
leia
and
if
we're
looking
at
our
business,
we
are
the
market
leader
in
revolving
online
point
of
sale,
credit
in
the
netherlands.
We
have
a
credit
book
around
about
270
million
at
the
moment
showing
stable
performance
and
payment
behavior.
D
We
are
under
the
regulation
of
the
afm
and
that's
a
dutch
regulator,
the
authoritative
nutella
marketing,
and
we
have
an
acceptance
rate
of
95
for
existing
customers
on
invoice
and
70
for
consumers.
We
have
less
than
three
percent
gross
right
off
and
we
have
real-time
decisioning
across
the
sector,
typically
within
two
seconds.
So
the
whole
credit
application
process,
including
all
the
verification
that
is
happening
in
open
banking
standards,
is
happening
within
two
seconds
decision
time.
D
If
we're
then
talking
about
our
potential
and
our
strength,
we
do
about
1.2
million
credit
requests
per
annum.
We
process
11
million
payments,
that
is
invoice
payments
and
credit
payments.
We
have
a
headroom
of
around
about
100
million
in
our
business,
2
million
invoice
customers
on
a
regular
basis
on
an
annual
basis,
500
000,
consumer
credit
customers
and
then
a
customer
satisfaction
score.
It's
a
different
measurement
to
the
nps,
but
also
consistently
high
at
8.8.
D
If
we
are
talking
about
our
assets,
clearly,
in
the
60
years
that
we
are
operating
this
market,
we
have
built
an
absolute
treasure
trove
of
dutch
consumer
data
or
obviously
gdpr
compliant.
But
no,
however,
we
know
a
lot
about
payment
behaviors.
What
early
warning
triggers
are
for
people
that
might
get
into
problems
for
us
to
be
able
to
help
them
to
not
get
into
problems.
That
is
an
amazing
asset
that
we
have
built
where
we
are
in
an
absolutely
unique
position
to
have
over
the
years
over
the
decades.
D
All
of
the
data
available,
then,
as
mentioned
before,
our
headroom,
gives
us
an
additional
untapped
potential
for
the
merchandise
that
we're
expanding.
In
of
around
about
100
million,
we
have
operated
at
scale
point
of
sale,
fully
regulated
in
this
business,
as
mentioned
before,
processing,
more
than
a
million
credit
requests
per
annum
with
a
very
high
and
very
responsible
acceptance
trading,
and
we
have
retail
in
our
dna.
We
are
born
out
of
a
retailer.
D
If
we
are
then
talking
about
what
our
proposition
to
the
merchants
are,
we
help
them
clearly
increase
sales
and
their
profitability.
They
are
able
to
attract
new
customers,
customers
that
would
like
to
spread
the
payments
over
a
longer
point
in
time.
Typically,
it
increases
basket
size
and
it's
creating
an
additional
commission
for
those
merchants.
We
are
adding
a
unique
set
value
add
to
to
the
merchant
for
the
value
proposition.
Typically,
consumer
credit
increases,
customer
loyalty
and
brand
loyalty.
D
If
we
then
go
to
next
one,
who
are
we
talking
about
in
terms
of
consumers,
we
looking
at
our
consumers
across
three
different
main
profiles,
we're
talking
about
the
budget
sofa
it's
typically
representing
28
percent
of
our
customer
base.
They
can
they
borrow
the
money
because
they
have
a
short-term
budget
problem,
for
example,
a
washing
machine
breaks
down
and
they
don't
know
how
to
finance
that
and
in
the
netherlands,
about
32
percent
of
the
people
can't
afford
an
unexpected
expenditure
of
500
euros
or
more.
D
That
is
a
terrible
statistic,
and
you
can
just
imagine
that
if
that
would
be
exploited,
that
there
would
be
a
potential
real
and
societal
problem,
so
those
are
about
28
of
our
customer
base.
However,
we
then
also
have
the
budget
managers.
They
really
just
want
to
manage
their
budget,
so
they
are
preferring
to
have
a
positive
balance
on
on
the
bank
account
and
they
don't
mind
paying
the
interest
rates
to
maintain
and
keep
the
positive
balance
in
the
bank
accounts
to
spread
it
over
time
to
align
it
with
the
income
levels.
D
It's
psychological
safety
and
then
there
are
about
43
percent
of
our
customer
base.
Are
budget
challenges
that
are
saving
for
a
specific
purchase
and
just
want
to
bridge
the
last
bit
to
it
to
get
it
earlier,
sometimes
because
a
special
promotion
or
a
deal
that
is
happening
that
in
the
end,
saves
the
money
and
if
we're
looking
about
the
demographics,
it's
58
female
42
male,
as
you
can
see.
Also
from
the
income
distribution
we
18,
000
plus
minus
is
the
minimum
salary
in
the
netherlands.
D
So
we
are
having
a
very
low
representation
of
people
with
minimum
income
in
the
netherlands,
and
you
can
see
that
above
the
same
representation
we're
having
for
people
that
are
earning
more
than
a
hundred
thousand
on
an
annual
basis.
It's
a
healthy
h-mix,
gender
mix
and
income
mix
that
is
represented
as
part
of
our
consumer
base.
D
D
If
we're,
then
talking
about
the
cumulative
defaults
and
recoveries
here,
you
see
the
cumulative
defaults
over
the
years
since
2000
financial
year,
2008
2009,
so
that
is
the
year
that
runs
from
april
2008
until
end
of
march
2009
and
two
and
last
fiscal
year
that
ended
in
april
and,
as
you
can
see
over
the
years,
we
managed
a
reduction
of
80
percent
of
our
default
rate.
It's
a
continuous
effort
to
really
every
single
year
reduce
what
percentage
of
the
consumers,
or,
in
this
case,
euro
values
is
going
into
default.
End
of
story.
D
D
It
means
that
they
are
overdue
and,
as
you
can
see
them
as
the
counterbalance
with
the
cumulative
recoveries,
a
variety
and
a
lot
of
people
start
repaying
again,
and
a
portion
of
those
repayments
also
just
start
repaying
again,
so
they
get
out
of
default
and
the
portion
of
those
recoveries
is
still
coming
from
collection
agencies.
That's
also
something
we
are
going
to
be
moving
away
from
over
time.
D
You
will
never
be
able
to
account
for
all
the
cases
that
the
consumers
are
gonna
be
treated
as
you
want
them
to
be
treated.
So
this
is
why
I'm
a
believer
in
actually
in
sourcing
that
over
time
and
one
of
the
things
that
we
did
probably
means
nothing
to
you
unless
you're
speaking
dutch,
but
we
also
signed
as
the
first
one.
D
This
killed
eisener
manifest,
and
I
was
on
a
tv,
show
there
with
a
very
reasonably
aggressive
tv
host
tim
hoffman
who
chased
us
down
because
he
wanted
to
speak
us
and
challenge
us
in
our
past,
and
he
also
confronted
me
with
this
asking
me
to
sign
it
and
basically,
what
it
says
is:
it's
people
are
people
and
no
products
right.
That's
basically
what
it
says,
and
you
wouldn't
believe
how
many
companies
are
refusing
to
sign
this.
It's
ridiculous
and
it
just
shows
that
this
market
needs
change.
D
B
It's
that's
great
shot.
I
mean
I
just
want
to
make
one
comment.
Just
one
underlying
collateral
perspective.
I
think,
is
helpful
as
people
think,
through
what
a
thinking
talk
more
in
ncp,
slash
tinker,
talk,
might
look
like.
So,
as
charlie
mentioned,
the
underlying
credit
itself
carries
a
10
interest.
B
B
You,
then,
would
have
to
look
here
at
this
default
rate
over
12
months.
It's
about
3
percent,
so
you
would
deduct
from
the
110
3,
which
would
be
107,
so
7
net
return,
but
you
actually
have
about
over
12
months
period
about
a
30
recovery.
So
you
actually
get
one
percent
back
on
recovery,
so
the
100
gets
to
108
after
one
year
now.
B
A
couple
of
words
just
on
the
transaction
itself
and
the
timeline
here
transaction
is
laid
out
in
the
forum.
We
would
like
to
launch
a
pool
of
these
unsecured
consumer
loans.
They
are
actually
contractually
that
contractual
claim
on
the
underlying
purchased
item.
Now
you
can
argue
how
enforceable
is
that?
Actually,
but
in
theory,
it
exists
and
we're
looking
to
launch
initial
pool
of
about
10
million
dollars,
which
would
be
8.2
million
euros,
which
is
the
native
currency
here
in
terms
of
line
items.
B
B
We're
gonna
have
one
with
an
average
of
about
30
months
and
just
to
put
this
in
comparison,
so
the
8
million
8.2
million
euros
we're
looking
at
here
to
transfer
to
the
sbb
every
year
tinker
originates
about
100
million
euros
of
comparable
point
of
sales
financings,
and
that
then
also
leads
us
to
the
next
bullet.
Here
once
we
want
to
start
with
a
10
million
u.s
dollar
debt
ceiling,
we
actually
would
like
to
increase
very
quickly
to
ask
for
50
million
debt
ceiling,
which
will
also
look
to
achieve
over
the
next
six
months.
B
Of
course,
subject
to
operationally.
Everything
goes
smoothly
and
both
parties
are
happy
with
the
with
the
transaction
within
the
smaller
parameter
that
we
want
to
start
off
with
one
important
point
which
charlie
didn't
mention,
but
I
think
it's
very
important
to
point
out
is
that
tinker
has
a
long
established
relationship
with
the
incumbent
banking
environment.
So
they
are
banked
by
ing
which
is
the
largest
bank
in
the
netherlands,
frankly,
the
benelux
and
also
think
it
has
access
to
traditional
public
securitization
framework.
B
So
really
this
is
an
alternative
to
the
existing,
but
certainly
not
a
requirement
for
tinker's
perspective.
But
there's,
as
you
can
probably
I've
heard
from
charlie
there's
just
an
inherent
interest
in
in
pursuing
this
and
and
diversifying
king's
funding
source
here,
but
the
incumbent
lenders
which
would
be
taking
this
exposure.
D
Marcus,
if
I
may
also
part
of
why
I'm
interested
in
actually
going
down
this
route
is
because
I
do
think
that
I
I
I
guess
as
all
of
you,
that
this
is
the
future.
So
this
is
the
future
of
how
this
market
is
gonna
be
financed,
and
I
think
what
we
might
have
together.
Also
going
back
to
our
vision,
is
a
chance
to
shape
this
market.
We
all
know
that
regulation
is
going
to
come.
D
We
all
know
that
there
are
bad
faith
players
out
there
and
we
have
done
our
due
diligence
similar
that
you
are
doing
it
on
us
with
you
as
well.
We
think
your
responsible
party,
we
can
clearly
see
it
in
the
process
that
you
running
and
we
think
there
is
a
true
chance
to
work
on
a
massive
competitive
advantage
again,
while
doing
the
right
thing
for
the
consumers
and
the
people
who
are
then
actually
also
investing
in
this.
D
B
I
think
it's
a
very
good
good
point.
China
also
leads
us
to
the
to
the
timeline
here,
and
so
I
just
laid
out
conceptually
where
we
are
today
and
what
we've
done
to
date
and
what
potential
path
forward
could
look
like.
So
we
launched
the
mipsix
application
august,
the
second
before
that
we
have
been
looking
at
this
already
for
a
couple
of
months
and
frankie.
What
charlie
mentioned.
One
key
aspect
here
of
this
particular
transaction
is
the
regulatory
overlay.
B
So
we
intend
to
implement
this
transaction
in
a
european
regulated
environment
you're
not
going
to
go
via
a
delaware
llc,
but
it
now
most
likely
looks
we're
gonna
go
via
a
jersey,
incorporated
spv
here
in
europe,
so
the
crown
dependency
between
uk
and
france
here
and
we
are
in
contact
with
the
regulator
there,
and
we
have
already
received
sort
of
initial
positive
feedback
that
they're
okay
with
us
to
go
ahead
with
the
synchronization
enabled
by
the
centrifuge
protocol,
but
of
course
independent
of
that
and
the
normal
process.
Here.
B
As
you
know,
we're
gonna
start
the
green
light
poll
officially
process
on
the
16th
and
then
takes
it
to
the
30th.
Hopefully,
with
a
positive
outcome
during
the
time,
we're
of
course
going
to
continue
answering
any
q
a
to
come
up
going
to
come
up,
we're
going
to
be
continuing
our
discussion
with
the
jersey
regulator
and
we're
going
to
start
the
preparation
in
terms
of
structure
and
legal
documentation,
because,
as
you
can
imagine,
what's
the
spv
via
centrifuge
to
maker
site?
B
Then
after
hopefully
positive
green
light
poll
feedback
we're
going
to
engage
with
with
step
in
the
team
just
for
the
due
diligence
and
the
onboarding
process.
Then
of
course
finalize
all
the
implementation
requirements
here
and
lastly,
just
emphasizing
the
point
once
more
we're
going
to
check
also
once
everything
is
done
with
the
regulator
that
there
is
an
approval
in
place,
because
we
want
to
make
this
squeaky
clean
here
we
want
to
be
able
to
point
towards.
This.
B
I
know
there
are,
of
course,
a
lot
of
applications
already
in
the
process,
so
I
appreciate
that
we
need
to
fine-tune
the
the
timeline
here,
but
then
also
afterwards,
and
it
sort
of
leads
me
to
the
to
the
two
points
here.
You
see
on
the
bottom
of
the
slide
in
terms
of
medium
outlook.
We
want
to
upscale
this
transaction,
and
you
know
spring
is
speaking
on
behalf
of
of
tinker
here.
B
You
know
if
we
have
a
successful
initial
trial
portfolio
of
10
million.
I
think
there
is
a
clear
desire
to
scale
this
up
to
50
million
pretty
quickly
and
potentially
beyond.
If
there's
there's
interest,
then
also,
as
you
know,
charlie
talk
about
the
various
products
they're
introducing,
but
also
the
other
products
they
currently
have
on
their
books.
B
First
and
foremost,
I
want
to
facilitate
and
help
make
the
tinker
transaction
a
success
and
also,
of
course,
showcase.
The
value
add
that
we
can
bring
in
ncp
to
make
us
a
reward
asset
strategy,
then
subsequently,
and
on
the
back
of
a
successful
tinker
transaction.
There
are
other
potential
pools
that
we're
already
in
discussion
with
and
there
could
be
either
pure
pools
or
diversified
originator
pools,
both
of
which,
I
think,
make
a
lot
of
sense,
and
it
would
be
quite
a
scalable
way
of
onboarding,
more
rearward
assets
here
and
then.
B
C
B
Yeah,
so
that's,
of
course
not
nothing
new
in
terms
of
euro
to
us
dollar
and
then
your
starter
to
die
is
probably
the
easier
part
of
it.
So
we're
going
to
be
working
with
nfx
hedging
advisor
and
we're
going
to
implement
an
institutional
fx
hedging
program
with
swap
and
future
contracts
just
to
take
out
the
risk
here
and
make
sure
that
the
underlying
notional,
especially
from
a
drop
perspective,
is
hedged
on
a
us
dollar
perspective.
B
B
A
D
C
A
C
Good
looking
guys
go
first,
okay,
so
so
this
is
a
very
exciting
space,
and
I
want
to
thank
you
guys,
both
companies
for
bringing
this
to
the
decentralized
finance.
It's
obviously
kind
of
a
hot
space
too
right
for
tinka,
there's
a
lot
of
competition
and
also
there's
a
lot
of
takeovers.
So
I
kind
of
wanted
to
get
carl
your
your
thoughts
on
what
the
final
goal
is
of
tinker.
Is
it
to
expand
beyond
the
netherlands?
D
So
the
plan
would
be
to
expand
on
a
first
of
all
in
the
next
two
years,
spanish
basis
and
then
to
the
broader
european
market.
We
do
not
have
plans
to
go
outside
of
europe.
That
said,
if
we
are
successful
in
europe,
there
is
no
reason
to
not
venture
into
other
territories,
but
europe
is
currently
our
the
end
of
our
north
star,
and
then
I
think
we
are
really
talking
about
additional
product
diversification
so
with
our
core
products
capture
the
market
in
a
responsible
way.
D
D
And
that
is
our
vision,
and
that
is
what
we
are
going
to
continue
to
do.
But
to
answer
your
question
specifically
in
europe
and
yes,
the
pressure
is
high
right
so
because
we
know
there's
some
bad
faith
player
in
this
market.
We
know
it.
We
see
it
left
from
the
center,
I'm,
as
I
mentioned
before,
I'm
going
to
go
to
court
with
one
of
them.
So
it's
we
know
those
players
exist.
D
We
know
it's
going
to
be
an
uphill
battle,
but
we
also
do
know
that
with
the
scalability
that
we
have
built
with
the
tremendous
unit
economics
that
we're
having
and
with
the
processes
that
we
have
established
to
treat
our
consumers
as
people,
it's
going
to
be
valued,
I'm
a
firm
believer
in
that
and
that
is
going
to
give
us
the
competitive
edge
on
top
of
our
unit
economics
and
acceptance
rates
and
everything
else
to
compete
against
those
players.
Could
I
have
something
charlie?
Yes,
please
johnny.
C
Just
just
on
the
on
the
dutch
regulatory
environment,
so
it's
it's
certainly
one
of
the
toughest
consumer
lending
environments
in
in
europe
and
in
terms
of
the
activity
and
enforcement
of
the
regulator,
but
also
in
terms
of
mandatory
law.
So
there
is
a
for
example.
The
the
interest
rate
is
kept
at
10
percent,
so
which,
for
an
anglo-saxon
like
myself,
is
something
that's
a
little
bit
of
a
a
shock.
But
that's
that's
the
system
that
we
operate
in
and
I
think
we
take
the
view
that
we
we
sort
of
you
know
if.
C
Make
it
here
you
can
make
it
anywhere
we.
We
are
proud
of
the
fact
that
we
come
from
a
regulation
register
environment
that
puts
consumers
first.
We
think
that,
from
a
from
an
expansion
expansion
perspective,
this
kind
of
makes
it
for
us
it's
a
little
bit
like
high
altitude
training
right.
So
we
we
can
drive
a
successful,
profitable
business
on
this
basis
in
one
of
the
toughest
markets,
it
means
that
we
should
be
able
to
expand
organically
into
other
into
other
countries
on
a
case-by-case
basis.
D
And
just
to
build
on
that,
and
maybe
to
go
back
to
one
of
the
mission
targets
that
we're
having.
If
you
remember
the
tactical
regulations
that
we
are
trying
to
introduce
and
specifically
report
about
the
1000
euro
verification
to
explain
in
this
context,
what
it
does
is
70
of
our
consumers
come
from
below
a
thousand
euros.
D
So
it's
important
for
us
to
start
acting
there
from
a
responsibility
angle,
but
at
the
same
time
we
know
that
klerner
only
offers
credit
up
to
a
thousand
euros,
and
there
is
a
reason
why
they
are
only
offering
up
to
a
thousand
euros
because
they
cannot
operationally
take
the
burden
of
verifying
above
a
thousand
euros.
Imagine
us
being
able
to
successfully
regulate
that
and
getting
it
from
the
thousand
to
250.
It
kills
that
market
for
clarinet.
They
are
not
able
to
compete.
We
killed
yet
another
player,
and
this
is
what
we
mean.
B
One
interesting
aspect,
justin
that
is
worth
mentioning.
I
know
these
days
it's
more
the
exception
than
the
norm,
but
tinker
is
actually
profitable
and
cash
generating,
whereas
a
lot
of
the
other
binaural
data
players
are,
of
course,
depending
on
various
fundraising
rounds,
to
actually
build
their
business
here,
but
yeah.
I
think
that's
just
underlines
what
charlie
said
and
then.
D
Marcus
that
might
is
a
super
nice
pole
passing
because,
basically,
if
you're
looking
at
the
revenue
structures
of
our
competition
again
going
back
to
leading
tactical
regulation,
what
we
said
this
year
is
we
are
going
to
start
regulating
late
payment
fees.
Look
at
the
revenue
build
up
of
those
loss,
making
competition
that
we're.
Having
look
at
the
affirms,
the
after-pace
decliners
of
this
world
between
10
and
40,
of
the
revenues
that
they
are
making
in
the
end,
making
a
loss
but
10
to
40
percent
are
coming
from
late
payment
fees.
C
D
So
in
all
transparency
this
year
we
have
about
one
and
a
half
million
provisions
just
for
the
increase
additional
for
what
we
have
seen
in
the
kobe
crisis.
In
the
end,
probably
the
foresight
is
better
than
it
was
in
terms
of
unemployment
rates
of
this
crisis,
because
it
looks
like
the
dutch
economic
outlook
is,
companies
are
employing
more
than
they
are
letting
go
against
what
the
forecast
was
a
few
months
ago,
but
it's
a
regular,
ongoing
and
audited
independently
audited
macroeconomic
factor
analysis
that
we
are
updating
on
a
quarterly
basis.
D
B
You
this
is
a
very
good
point.
I
include
in
the
deck,
which
can
be
shared
online,
also
a
slide
just
on
this
asset
class
in
principle
and
then,
of
course,
the
dutch
economic
environment.
Here
on
the
left,
you
just
see
it's
us-based,
because
u.s
has
the
most
transparent
data
in
that
regard,
how
credit
card
that
has
performed
over
the
last
30
30
years
and,
of
course,
you
think
about
point
of
sales
financing.
B
Yes,
the
binaural
paleta
players
want
to
sell
this
as
the
major
financial
innovation,
but,
of
course,
it's
very
similar
to
credit
card
debt.
So
a
credit
you
take
out
by
purchasing
a
product
you
can
see
it
here,
which
is
the
underlying
economics,
which
is
the
dark
blue
line.
Is
the
gross
interest
charge
so
in
the
us?
B
C
C
B
B
The
capital
market
would
effectively
price
that
with
a
blend
of
these
spreads,
which
would
roughly
equate
to
call
it
two
two
and
a
half
percent,
and
that
gives
you
a
flavor
of
how
the
capital
markets
you
know
over
this
asset.
Cluster
existed
in
quite
a
long.
Long
period
thinks
about
the
underlying
risk,
so
they,
you
know,
the
implicit
market
tells
you
right
now.
The
the
risk
from
the
underlying
asset
is
quite
limited.
B
So
I
think
the
the
risk
here
is
to
a
certain
extent
operationally,
which
we
why
we
decided
to
go
with
a
smaller
portfolio
initially
to
get
a
grab
on.
You
know
that
all
works
flawlessly
and
well
and
then
scale
up
from
there,
but
charlie,
maybe
have
another
another
perspective.
I
think
that's
sort
of
the
key.
D
Not
another
one,
just
a
very
good
point:
marcus
thinks
it's
an
additional
one.
It's
it's
one
thing
you
can
be
relatively
certain
on
is
that
it's
gonna
shine
shine
a
light
on
all
of
you
and
the
chain
in
and
by
itself.
It's
gonna
gain
quite
some
publicity
and
basically
in
case
there
should
be
any
skeletons
I'd
advise
to
get
rid
of
them
before
it
happens,
because
they
are
gonna,
be
flushed
out,
not
saying
that
there
are
any
we
haven't
found
any
definitely,
but
it's
just
saying
there
is
always
with
publicity.
C
A
B
I
think
we
are
out
of
time.
I
just
want
to
offer
it
here
as
well.
You
got
my
contact
details
in
the
application.
Please
feel
ready
to
reach
out
I
loop
in
charlie,
johnny
and
martin,
who,
of
course,
didn't
speak.
Everybody
was
equally
involved
in
all
of
this
and
being
happy
to
schedule.
Your
follow-up
calls,
or
you
know,
answer
anything
in
the
in
the
forum
there
as
questions
come
up.