►
Description
## Agenda
**Special Guests**
Igor Barinov | [xDai](https://www.xdaichain.com/)
Andrey Bugaevski | [Incognito Protocol](https://incognito.org/)
Kris Kaczor | Maker Foundation (Repping [Optimism](https://optimism.io/) & L2 Generalist)
**Topics**
State of L2s
Generalized Ideas about MakerDAO L2 Integrations
L1 scaling impact on L2 usage
Open Q&A
## Relevant Links
[Forum Thread - Should MakerDAO/DAI run Simultaneously on another Chain?](https://forum.makerdao.com/t/should-makerdao-dai-run-simultaneously-on-another-chain/3317)
[Forum Thread - Ethereum L1 Gas Issue for little Dai holders/investors (ES/EN/PT)](https://forum.makerdao.com/t/ethereum-l1-gas-issue-for-little-dai-holders-investors-es-en-pt/4547)
[Forum Thread - The NFT Craze fire and why Maker needs to Prioritize Centrifuge as a Layer 2 Solution ](https://forum.makerdao.com/t/the-nft-craze-and-why-maker-needs-to-prioritize-centrifuge-as-a-layer-2-solution/6439)
[Forum Thread - Announcing the Optimism Dai Bridge with Fast Withdrawals](https://forum.makerdao.com/t/announcing-the-optimism-dai-bridge-with-fast-withdrawals/6938)
If you're curious to learn more about MakerDAO explore some of the resources below:
Awesome-MakerDAO Resource Repository: https://awesome.makerdao.com/
Technical Documentation: https://docs.makerdao.com/
Community Portal: https://community-development.makerdao.com/
Governance Forum: https://forum.makerdao.com/
Website: https://makerdao.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/makerdao
Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/MakerDAO/
Chat: https://chat.makerdao.com/home
A
Hey
everybody.
Welcome
to
this
tuesday
april
13th
make
your
dial
community
call.
My
name
is
david
utrobin,
I'm
a
long
time
maker
now,
community,
member
fanboy
and
eventually
turned
employee
for
the
maker
foundation,
and
I
have
the
good
pleasure
of
hosting
these
calls
every
tuesday
or
most
tuesdays
lately
and
so
yeah.
A
In
that
overview,
you
could
check
out
the
maker
relay,
which
is
published
every
monday
by
a
group
of
really
awesome
contributors,
and
that's
like
your
one,
stop
shop
for
all
the
kind
of
headline
worthy
stuff,
but
yeah
and
thanks
man
pull
together.
T
layton
gave
me
it
back
in
in
east
denver
in
2019,
but
yeah
cool.
So
today
is
going
to
be
a
really
good,
a
good
one.
A
I
know
igor,
is
on
his
way
he's
going
to
be
here
a
little
ways
through
the
call
and
also
if
anybody
actually
here
who's
attending
is
like
really
knowledgeable
about
zk
roloff
ck
syncs,
especially
with
regards
to
the
recent
update,
definitely
type
in
chat,
and
if
you
would
like,
hey
chris
and
definitely
if
you'd
like
to
be
invited
on
the
screen
and
join
the
conversation.
That
would
be
a
really
great
voice
to
have
here.
A
A
A
Right,
a
part
of
the
conversation
that
I
want
to
have
today
is
not
just
about
l2s
in
general,
but
also
about
side
chains
like
die
and
like
what
your
team
sees
is
the
future
of
those
and
also,
if
yeah.
Just
generally
speaking,
that's
a
really
interesting
thing
that
I
would
love
to
hear
talked
about
throughout
the
call,
but
yeah
cool
chris.
C
Yeah,
hey
so
I'm
chris,
I'm
work
for
I'm
working
for
maker
foundation
as
a
senior
software
engineer,
and
lately
I've
been
focused
on
layer,
2
related
research,
so
yeah,
I'm
super
excited
to
be
here,
and
you
know,
discuss
these
topics
in
more
in-depth
and
yeah.
As
you
already
mentioned,
I
think
the
like
layer,
two
is
lately
becoming
like
very
broadly
used
term,
but
in
reality
it
it
it's
mostly
about
like
this
scaling
sessions
that
inherit
their
one
security
properties,
but
still
like.
A
Yeah
totally
totally-
and
actually
I
guess,
like
my
first
question-
would
be
the
state
of
x
die.
I
know
x
die
as
a
side
chain
at
one
point
it
had
like
12
or
13
validators
for
the
chain,
and
they
were
all
kind
of
like
organizations.
People
that
you
know
would
would
be
hard-pressed
to
like
be
malicious
right,
but
if,
but
of
course
it's
still
like
you
know,
a
side
chain
still
centralized.
So
I'm
curious
about
can
xdi
become
like
a
full-fledged
layer
too
and
yeah.
B
000
stake,
which
is
quite
a
lot,
and
the
original
validators
who
started
with
xdi
are
are
still
the
ones
there,
although
some
new
ones
have
come
on,
so
it
is
a
delegated
proof-of-stake
system
and
it
is
open
to
participation
from
the
community.
We
expect
to
see
more
validators
coming
on
board.
I
think
right
now,
they're
16
and
it
can
support
up
to
19
per
week.
There
could
be
3
000,
you
know
in
in
queue
and
then
the
top
19
would
be
selected.
So
that's
where
it
stands
right
now,.
A
B
B
A
B
D
D
D
All
polls
are
getting
equal
reward
from
staking
tokens,
so
there
is
no
competition
between
them
and
delegate
city
balance,
their
stakes
between
delegators
to
achieve
the
equilibrium
and
apr
which
is
limited
like
some
default
properties,
and
all
properties
can
be
adjusted
by
by
validators
themselves,
so
that's
and
by
signaling
from
the
community
and
the
consensus
itself
implemented
in
solid
gtm.
So
it's
you
know
it's
upgradable
without
need
to
hardwork
the
client
yeah.
D
To
run
exactly
you
don't
need
to
have
any
like
for
you,
you
don't
need
to
install
to
install
any
binary
from
forked
repos.
You
just
take
official
ethereum
clients,
so
you
can
consider
a
it's
a
it's
like
a
test
net
right.
So
when
you
want
to
run
rinky
b,
right
or
cohen
or
or
rapstan,
you
don't
run
like
client
from
their
repositories.
You
just
run
ethereum.
Client.
Here
is
the
same
right.
D
You
just
take
vanilla,
ethereum
client,
you
don't
need
to
have
to
use
any
of
our
repos,
and
this
consensus
is
supported
by
you
know:
gnosis
team,
from
the
open
ethereum
side
and
by
nethermine
team
from
the
nethermind
side.
So
two
clients
are
supporting
the
reference
implementation
and
when
we
are
contributing
to
these
consensus
we
are
contributing
to
core
ethereum
clients.
So
that's.
C
D
D
Randomness,
in
this
case,
your
validator
will
skip
a
block,
so
the
whole
chain
will
be
a
bit
slower,
but
likely
you
will
leave
in
your
own
fork
and
all
other
validators
will
follow
the
the
fork.
So
it's
actually
it's
quite
hard
to
break
this
consensus.
You
can
look
into
like
cohen
test
net,
which
runs
with
two
validators
for
such
a
long
time
right,
because
no
one
wants
to
to
support
cohen.
D
It's
it's
quite
hard
to
to
break
the
rules
and
the
very
important
part
of
the
of
the
xbox
is
about
bridges
right
and
that's,
I
think,
that's
why
we're
invited,
because
extire
one
of
the
largest
offshore
for
die
right
so
die
off
short
from
from
ethereum
to
to
extire,
and
it's
like
23
million
die
sitting
in
the
bridge
at
the
moment.
So
the
security
model
of
of
bridges
is
relying
on
validators,
but
but
but
every
layers
of
bridges
they
run.
D
D
D
Yeah,
we
don't
have
penalties,
we
have
like
froze
mechanics
like
in
real
life
right.
If
you
steal
chips,
you,
don't
you
don't
get
capital
punishment
right,
you
just
get
some
jail
time.
So
the
same
here
in
the
you
know
in
our
in
our
consensus
that
validators
were
misbehaving
and
all
the
alligators
were
staking
from
them.
They
all
are
taking
them
to
this
freeze
jail.
Basically
for
90
days
and
90
days
in
krita
is
like
few
years
in
real
life.
A
Yeah,
so
that's
a
that's
a
pretty
good,
like
general
overview
of
xdi,
and
I
know
a
lot
of
projects
have
been
also
kind
of
launching
on
xdi
and
dye
has
been
super
popular
on
naturally
xdi.
But
I
am
curious
about
the
state
of
optimism
because
I
know
maker
recently
well
specifically
sam
mcpherson
and
some
other
people
recently
announced.
A
You
know
this
bridge
with
that
that
solves
kind
of
the
time
issue
for
withdrawals
and
also
just
recently
today
there
was
a
the
zk
sync
update,
but
you
know
we're
not
going
to
talk
about
zk
sync.
I
was
trying
to
get
somebody
on
the
call
to
talk
a
bit
about
it,
but
I
am
curious
about
optimism
and
and
kind
of
yeah,
just
the
state
of
where
it
is
and
where
we
are.
If
you
would
look
if
you
could
cover
that
chris,
that
would
be
super
cool.
C
C
It
creates
sorts
of
like
a
crypto
economic
game,
where
you
know
someone
can
produce
new
block,
but
then
there
are
like
arbitrary
amount
of
verifiers
verifying
this
bro
this
this
produced
blocks,
and
if
only
one
of
these
verifiers
is
behaving
correctly,
then
they
can
submit
so-called
fraud,
proof
and
schedule
execution
of
some
of
the
state
transition
on
plane
on
layer.
One
and
then
you
know
the
layer.
One
is
certain
what
really
happened
right
and
who's
right,
so
this
is
more
or
less
how
optimistic,
relapses
work
and
with
zika
relapse.
C
C
But
it's
like
you
know,
good
step
in
the
good
direction,
and
you
know
it's:
it's
promoting
some
of
the
good
ideas
behind
your
laps
but
yeah,
basically
with
roll-ups.
As
I
mentioned,
you
have
this
problem
with
fraud
proofs
that
can
take
so
in
optimism.
They
can
take
up
to
one
week
for
there's
a
time
window
where
anyone
can
submit
a
fraud
proof.
C
If
you,
obviously
it's
a
huge
problem
like
when
you
can
enter
a
system
very
quickly,
but
then
you
need
to
wait
one
week
to
exit
it
right,
so,
basically
yeah
with
maker.
We
have
this
ability
to
produce
dye
with
any
collateral,
and
basically
we
can
use
maker
oracles
to
tokenize
to
verify
a
state
of
the
roll-up
like
if
you're
running
a
verifier.
You
can
be
100
sure
that
the
state
is
correct.
If
you
followed
all
the
state
transitions
and
then
we
can
produce,
we
can,
you
know,
have
maker.
C
C
You
know
one
week
for
this,
for
this
original
die
to
process
to
to
be
processed
by
the
roll-up,
and
then
this
original
die
would
be
sent
to
maker
protocol
to
pay
back
the
debt
of
the
user
and
at
the
end
the
user
would
end
up
with
really
fast
off-ramp,
and
probably
there
would
be
some
small
fees
involved,
like
you
know,
for
maker
protocol
for
taking
the
risk
of
running
all
of
this.
But
we
believe
that
you
know
it's
going
to
be
huge
win
for
the
community
at
the
end
of
the
day,
yeah.
C
A
D
D
Also,
we
adapted
an
idea
from
from
cardana
with
a
saturation
point
where,
in
in
their
consensus,
validator
cannot
get
more
than
some
like
specific
amount
specified
amount
yeah
in
our
consensus.
Well,
data
cannot
get
less
than
specified
amount,
so
validator
is
getting
30
percent
of
the
full
reward,
no
matter
how
many
delegators
are
on
this
wall
of
data,
so
they
always
have
constant
stream
of
tokens
to
you
know
get
the
the
network
in
in
the
shape
enter.
They
want
to
add.
C
Deploy
their
own
smart
contracts
on
the
test
net,
which
is,
I
think,
connected
to
rinkaby,
and
then
I
think
it's
still
like
two
or
a
couple
of
months
for,
like
you,
know,
proper
mainnet
deployment,
and
this
is
our
bridge
with,
I
think,
pretty
similar
timeline,
even
though
I'm
not
sure
about
this.
It's
another
optimistic
roll-up.
C
But
then,
on
the
other
hand,
we
have
you
know
the
zero
knowledge
roll-ups
that
are
chasing
optimism,
optimistic
ones
and
zika.
Sync
is
a
pretty
decent
relapse
that
it's
on
mainnet
for
a
long
time.
It
supports
only
payments
right
now
and
again
it
has
upgradable
mechanism.
So
it's
not
really
decentralized,
even
though
there's
a
time
lock
and
so
on,
but
it's
not
perfect,
but
the
real.
C
I
mean
more
real
deployment,
probably
still
with
upgradeable
mechanism,
but
at
least
with
the
some
sort
of
smart
contract
capabilities
like
they're,
saying
that
it's
gonna
be
evm
compatible,
but
I
think
it's
gonna
be
more
of
like
solidity
compatible.
So
there's
a
special
com
compiler
that
you
can
use
to
compile
your
cd
code
to
to
their
zk
circuits,
and
this
is
coming
again
somewhere
in
the
summer.
So
a
few
months.
A
Nice,
nice
yeah,
that's
really
really
really
great
yeah.
I
like
it
was
important
for
me
to
kind
of
get
a
good
mind
on
the
timeline
of
these
things,
because
yeah
optimism
and
zk
ropes
are
just
like
head
and
head.
I'm
really
curious.
If
well
all
right,
I'm
curious!
If
you
have
strong
opinions,
do
you
think
that
protocols
will
opt
to
do
integrations
on
both
or
do
you
feel
like?
There
will
be
a
natural
winner
that
people
gravitate
towards.
C
In
my
opinion,
you
know
we
should
probably,
as
a
community,
should
provide
tools
to
educate
people,
and
you
know
present
all
of
the
drawbacks
advantages
of
each
solution
in
a
comprehensive
way
for
regular
users,
and
I
think
this
is
a
huge
challenge
for
all
of
us
but
like,
if
you
ask
me
personally,
I'm
a
huge
fan
of
both
of
the
projects
and
I
actually
met
alex
from
the
case
think
like
just
before
the
lockdown
in
europe.
So
it
was
the
very
last
conference
in
europe.
C
It
was
fcc
and
we
spoke
there
and
I
was
really
excited
about
his
vision
like
he
was
already
talking
about,
like
you
know,
full
smart
contract
support
and
you
know
how
the
network
of
block
producers
can
be
also
permissionless,
and
you
know
I
I
wouldn't
pick
sites
in
in
this
duel.
I
think
still
that
optimistic
roll-ups
will
be
first
ones,
but
you
know
zeke
is
saying
that
also
like
what
dydx
with
starkware
are
like
shipped
very
recently
like
they're.
C
This
perpetual
project,
you
know
zk
based
roll
ups,
are
really
catching
up,
and
you
know
I
I
thought.
If
you
would
ask
me
a
few
months
ago,
I
would
say
that
there
would
be
like
a
year
or
more
after
the
you
know.
Zika
relapse
catch
up
to
optimistic
grabs,
but
now
I
think
it
might
be
much
much
sooner.
A
A
C
I
mean
there
are
some
other
solutions
that
are
not
real
tools
like
polygon.
Right
I
mean
polygon
has
a
lots
of
different
products,
I
think,
but
some
of
them
are
closer
to
side
chains,
and
this
I
think,
where
ava
launched
very
recently-
and
I
think
this
this
is
very
exciting,
for
you
know
these
protocols
that
that
you
know
are
focused
on
like
the
white
adoption
like
other,
I
think
maker
is
always.
C
C
A
D
I
can
start
go
for
it
yeah,
so
we
have
a
bridge
from
ixtai
to
bsc
and
also
from
ethereum
to
bsc.
So
we
have
two
bridges.
Obviously
the
one
which
is
from
from
max
diet
to
bsc
is
actually
quite
used
and
we
see
that
people
are
using
it
for
cheap
exits
and
that's
really
a
solving
problem
for
some
users
of
exactly
who
breached
die
from
from
from
ethereum
to
x,
die
and
they
want
to
exit.
D
D
This
x
die
in
a
wrapped
form
actually
to
to
die
which
originated
from
from
bse,
and
this
dye
is
mapped
on
the
consensus
level
on
binance
chain
right,
which
is
sitting
in
the
hot
wallet
which
is
actually
ct
important,
ethereum
right.
So
that's
that's
quite
interesting.
It
sounds
like
it's
coming.
Yeah.
D
D
Yeah
yeah,
but
it's
you
know,
users
are
using
it.
We
see,
you
know
it's
all
like
rebalancing
of
these
pools
and
the
flows
of
tokens,
and
you
know
people
are
solving
their
problems.
You
just
give
them
tools.
They
found
ways
how
to
use
those
tools.
So
that's
quite
exciting.
Also
the
I
like
that
finance
chain
is
raising
the
bar
in
terms
of
kind
of
scalability
right,
because
it's
it's
more
scalable
for
now,
like
block
size
and
amount
of
transactions
possible
amount
of
transactions.
B
Well,
I
would
just
add
that
I
I
second
that,
as
far
as
adoption
goes
right
now,
we're
just
in
this
kind
of
flux,
state
where
ethereum
is
transitioning
and
people
are,
are
trying
out
the
technology
in
whatever
way
that
they
can
and
making
it
more
open
to
more
people.
Right
now
is
only
going
to
serve
things
further
down
the
line
when
ethereum
does
make
that
that
step.
So
I
think
there
does
need
to
be
be
alternatives
for
people
right
now
and
as
they're
learning.
Hopefully
they
will
also
learn
more
about
decentralization
and.
A
Totally,
I
think
one
of
the
biggest
things
that
drew
me
to
the
crypto
space
originally
is
like
the
ethos
of
meritocracy
and
like
provable
meritocracy
and
not
like
you
know,
human,
like
the
meritocracy
of
the
tech.
You
know
how
meritable
is
it
and
yeah
competition?
Definitely
lights,
fires
under
everybody's
butt,
everybody
yeah,
it's
plural
but
yeah.
Sorry,
chris
go
for
it.
D
It's
a
good
problem
to
solve
right.
So
if
you
have
a
pro,
if
you
have
a
new
problem,
it's
a
new
challenge
and
likely
they
will
solve
it
in
a
in
an
alternative
way.
So
we
can
learn
from
from
their
findings.
You
know
the
way
that
they
map
tokens
on
the
consensus
level.
Is
it's
very
different
from
all
the
ideas
that
we
saw
before
on
all
other
side
genes,
and
you
know
ethereum
killers,
the
force
or
whatever
right.
So
it's
a
it's
a
it's
an
innovative
way.
You
know!
D
That's
that's
moving
our
industry
forward
right
that
some
people
innovate
in
this
way.
Yeah
state
growth,
like
everyone,
just
ask
avalanche
people.
You
know
how
are
you
solving
this
this
problem,
you
you,
you
cannot
find
the
an
answer
yet
right.
Ask
if
you're
in
people
you
know
originators,
for
example,
right?
Okay,
so
you
can.
You
can
do
this
one
day,
but
there
is
no
silver
bullet
yet
for
it
right
keyword,
yet
yeah,
well
good
to
have
that
someone!
D
Someone
has
this
problem
and
they're
like
thinking
about
24
7.
I
mean
the
finance
j
and
cto
likely
right,
because
you
see
that
all
these
important
projects
for
them
are.
Are
you
know
struggling
with
this
problem
right,
so
they're
looking
for
solutions
unlikely,
they
will
find
something.
You
know
they.
A
Yeah,
that's
totally
respectable,
so
there
is
a
couple
of
questions.
One
from
frank.
Is
it
possible
that
these
layer
twos
will
deter
users
from
ever
coming
back
to
layer?
One?
When
do
you
think
centralized
exchanges
will
allow
their
account
holders
to
directly
deposit
to
layer
twos
and
do
you
think
we
need
an
app
with
a
million
daily
users
on
any
of
these
layer,
twos
for
centralized
exchanges
to
really
buy
into
that
given
layer,
2
or
the
general
layer,
2
movement
yeah.
So
a
few
things
there.
C
So
maybe
I
start
so.
First
of
all,
this
is
a
great
problem
to
have,
but
right
now
we
don't
have
any
proper
layer
to
scaling
solution.
That
would
allow,
for
you
know,
general
computation
and
it
seems
like
we're,
not
gonna
have
it
for
a
couple
of
months
still
or
even
maybe
a
year,
because
you
know
a
lot
of
these
deployments
that
you
see
now
they
have
some,
you
know,
escape
patches,
upgrade
mechanisms
and
so
on.
C
So
I
think,
like
this,
like
people
will
be
reluctant
to
jump
onto
these
their
tools
that
are
not
real,
yet
layer,
twos
and
I
think
the
same
goes
for
you
know,
centralized
exchanges,
but
I
I'm
sure
that
once
you
know
these
projects
that
we're
talking
about
will
deliver
that
we
will
see
like
massive
massive
adoption,
and
I
don't
see
any
reason
why
you
know
centralized
exchanges
shouldn't
provide
direct
on-ramps
to
these
chains
rather
to
layer,
one
ones,
and
I
frankly
feel
it's
it's
good.
I
mean
layer.
B
D
Yeah
and
we
integrated
zero
fee
withdrawals
from
this
exchange
called
bit
max.
It's
not
it's
not
like
tier
one
exchange,
but
still
a
reliable
partner
and
great
guys
so
they're,
also
for
not
not
only
for
like
centralized
exchange
business,
but
also
for
the
tech.
So
I
think
when
you
propose
to
integrate
something
unusual,
they're
open
and
when
we
propose
to
integrate
zero
fees
exit
from
from
the
exchange
to
exti,
they
implemented
it.
D
So
that's
x,
dice,
tradable
versus
usdt
on
their
exchange,
and
if
users
get
textile,
they
can
exit
paying
like
zero
fees
from
the
exchange
to
the
chain
and
after
they
have
multiple
paths,
how
they
can
pass,
how
they
can
go
to
to
ethereum
or
to
binance
and
back
to
the
exchange.
So
that's
all
makes
sense,
and
also
it's
great.
D
It
creates
a
new
opportunity
for
arbitrage
on
the
centralized
exchange
and
just
something
that
moving
money
around
and
making
it
it's
interesting
for
people
to
you
know,
look
what's
that
you
know
like.
What's
this
type
of
diet,
you
know
why
do
we
need
it
right,
so
what
they
can
do
with
it?
Yeah?
That's
that's!
Definitely
an
important
integration!
D
A
So
I'm
curious,
actually
lewis
said
he
actually
used
the
max
and
he
said
it
works
pretty
well
yeah.
So
I'm
curious,
so
we
touched
a
little
bit
about
a
little
bit
on
layer,
one.
It's
not
like
the
scaling
impact
on
layers
usage,
but
just
like
the
departure
of
users
for
the
preference
of,
like
you,
know,
a
better,
less
costly
way
to
transact
smaller
amounts,
but
I'm
curious
when
ethereum
eventually
transitions
through
all
these
phases
and
like
matures
into
ethereum
2.0.
A
How
do
you
think
this
will
affect?
I
guess
the
not
the
appeal
of
all
the
layer
twos,
but
I'm
curious.
If
you
know
to
what
level
you
expect
the
maximum
scaling
of
l1
to
reach
like
do
you
expect
it
to
be
like
1000,
tps
5000?
Is
there
a
reasonable
estimate
now
and
then
yeah?
If
it
does
get
to
a
really
nice
level,
does
it
mark
layer
2's
obsolete,
or
do
you
think
that
they'll
be
somewhat
of
a
permanent
fixture
in
the
ethereum
and
general
blockchain
like
space.
D
Yeah,
I
can
start
so
one
one
example
that
I'm
thinking
about
myself.
So
let's
say,
let's
take
a
one
day
of
wednesday
yesterday
right
it's
like
about
100
000
transactions,
so
it's
around
one
transaction
per
second
over
the
day
right
so,
but
when,
when
we
look
into
like
how
many
reads
we
had
on
the
network
likely
on
only
on
our
rpc
endpoints,
it
will
be
around
200
million
edits
and
it's
like
thousands
requests
per
second
on
rpc
endpoints
right.
D
D
D
It's
it's
a
blog
scout,
so
some
people
like
asking
us
to
to
do
some
specific
integrations,
especially
in
regards
with
videos
in
regards
of
adding
some
custom
buttons
for
like
projects
which
are
deployed
on
next
day
and
that's
something
that
if,
if
it
solves
the
problem
that
can
still
can
be
used,
maybe
it
would
be
a
legacy
system
one
day
but
still
usable.
So
I
don't
see
like
extinction
of
of
this
testnet
side
chains,
layer
tools
when
we
have
the
maximum
scalability.
B
A
C
D
A
D
A
D
Well,
because
we
are
following
ethereum
roadmap,
this
is
the
first
thing
second,
because
because
the
eap1559
can
solve
problems
that
we
have
on
next
day,
also
right
so
with
with
possible
spikes
of
activity
on
the
network,
which
can
be
engineered
right
to
slow
down
the
network.
The
validators
and
economic
of
transaction
fees
should
react
accordingly,
and
the
cip
is
helping
to
to
shape
this.
D
This
problem
and
yeah,
just
as
as
I
mentioned,
if
you
think,
about
extra
as
a
test
net,
this
is
a
type
of
test
net,
with
a
real
value
right,
where
we
can
well
actually
with
a
few
hundred
millions
dollars
of
volume
or
value
of
tokens.
Besides
this
23
million
of
dialogue
right
so
that
can
be
used
for
as
like
economical
test
net
to
test
some.
Some
mechanics
and
you
know,
can
give
some
insights
to
other
researchers
and
explorers.
That's
that's
the
reason
exactly
my
main
reasoning.
A
D
Yeah,
like
kusama,
started
as
a
test
net
for
xbox
plus
client
right
so
which
was
developed
by
another
company,
not
by
both
of
those
rights
all
the
time,
but
now
it
became
its
own,
vibrant
and
interesting
ecosystem
itself
right
where
they
can
test.
You
know
all
these
governance
updates
and
all
these
new
features
so
yeah.
I
see,
I
know
that
several
teams
are
working
on
the
narrative
to
be
kusama
for
ethereum.
D
A
So
I
also
had
on
the
agenda
just
I
wanted
to
discuss
generalized
ideas
about
make
or
dao
layer
two
integrations,
but
before
I
do
that
for
like
the
last
five
minutes
of
the
call
ask
you
guys
about
that
for
last
five
minutes
of
the
call.
I
know
that
I
see
that
stefan
klaus
had
a
quick
question
in
the
chat.
Why
don't
other
exchanges?
Sorry?
Why
don't
other
exchanges
list
x,
dye
steak
bit
max
is
exclusive
until
when.
D
No,
it's
not
an
exclusive,
they
were
just
the
first
who
listed.
There
are
some
small
exchanges,
no
tier
one
exchanges.
That's
a
that's
a
tricky
question
right.
So
no,
no,
no
clear
answer
like
if
you
answer
with
real
reasons
and
like
real,
I
don't
know
dates
whatever
likely
will
not
be,
will
not
happen.
D
Something
like
this
yeah.
Well,
it's
ex
die
is
doing
fine
in
any
way
right,
so
yeah,
that's
speaking
token,
was
intended
to
be
hidden
within
the
consensus
and
be
interested
only
like
for
professional
parties
and
people
who
are
using
dye
and
extra
on
a
nice
day.
They
should
not
think
about
steak
token.
That's
kind
of
the
internal
thing
right,
so
yeah.
D
I
add
something
you
know
there
are
some.
There
are
some
protocols
which
are
trying
to
replicate
behavior
of
like
make
it
down
like
what's
like
functions
and
features
will
not
name
them,
but
you
know
that
they're
like
they
exist
right,
so
one
one
thing
that
I
would
like
to
see
from
from
maker
foundation
is
to
have
you
know,
dimentable
on
on
more
chains
right,
and
we
know
that
there
are
protocols
which
are
using
authorized
positions
to
issue
stable
tokens
and
they're
deploying
instances
on
different
chains.
D
There's
a
good
word
for
like
franchisee
right,
which
can
be
deployed
yeah.
So
just
imagine,
franchisee
of
make
it
down.
You
know.
Finance
chain
throne
x
die,
maybe
which
will
make
our
life
easier
yeah.
That
would
be
great
to
see
in
some
extent
well,
even
even
though
like.
If
we
have
a
franchise
on
binance
chain,
that's
that's.
D
Make
makes
total
sense,
forex
die,
for
example,
right,
yeah
or
yeah.
I
know
that
you're
doing
you're
planning
to
have
this
franchise
on
optimism,
but
just
consider
other
options
too.
Maybe
like
a
smaller
amount
of
collateral.
Maybe
just
one
some,
you
know
one
column.
For
the
start.
That's
something
that's
important
for
us.
C
No,
I
I
wanted
to
expanded
this
because,
like
you
know
what,
for
example,
our
proposal
on
fast
withdrawals
for
optimism
means
is
that
we're
not
moving
any
car
piece
of
maker
dao
from
the
layer,
one
to
optimus,
we're
just
you
know,
adding
some
additional
collateral
types
on
layer,
one
to
allow
for
fast
withdrawal
from
optimism,
but
it's
a
very
important
distinction
like,
as
I
mentioned
like,
I
can
see
like
die
being
everywhere
on
every
single.
You
know
side
chain,
whatever
we
can
also
think
about.
C
You
know
bridges
to
polka
dot
or
whatever.
As
long
you
know
as
as
quickly
as
there
are
like.
You
know,
erc
20
bridges
for
any.
You
know
other
blockchain
we
can,
we
can
bridge
die
and
you
know,
drive
adoption
somewhere
else
right,
but
moving
like
allowing
for
minting
die
on
a
different
chain
is
something
else
right
like
it's,
it's
kind
of
complicated
because,
first
of
all,
we
need
to
get
it
right.
C
D
Yeah
it's
from
our
like
real
life
experience.
It's
not
the
it's!
Not
that
important
right,
so
you
have
multi.
You
can
have
multiple
ways,
so
you
can
have
multiple
forms
of
dye
on
one
chain
right
bridge
from
different
chains.
You
just
need
to
have
a
way
for
people
to
swap
right
and
enough
liquidity
for
swapping
and
how
to
determine
like
how
much
people
want
to
to
to
swap
it's.
D
B
D
C
C
You
know
chained
to
I
don't
know
100
million,
and
it
means
this
die
and
stores
them
in
the
bridge
directly
and
then
sends
them
to
this
instance
of
the
maker
protocol
on
layer.
Two,
so
really
it's
it's
not
minting.
Can
you
die,
but
it's
rather
distributing
diet
that
was
premated,
so
it's
like
a
easy
technical
way
that
that
I
can
see
to
move.
C
You
know
parts
of
protocol
of
maker
protocol
into
some
other
networks
and,
of
course
this
has
to
be
accounted
properly,
so
this
100
million
die
that
was
prevented
shouldn't
count
to
you
know
total
supply
of
dye.
It
makes
some
things
harder,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
like,
I
think
I
believe
that
you
know
having
one
die
on
on
this
chain
and
is
a
huge
value
for
the
protocol.
D
Right,
but
on
on
side
chains
or
other
networks,
you
can
have
for
this
native
assets
of
this
chains
right
which
can
be
used
as
a
collateral,
just
think
about
cake
on
on
binance
chain.
Is
it
a
good
collateral?
I
think
it's
it's.
It
fits
like
all
check
boxes
on
the
like
on
the
risk
team
right
because
they
have
volume
they
have
users,
they
have
liquidity
and
so
forth
right.
But
if
you
want
to
use
cake
on
you
know
it's
you
have
to
bridge
it.
So
that's.
C
C
And
I
think,
like
you
know,
setting
this,
I
think
it
would
make
sense.
For
example,
you
know
deploy
even
maker
like
this.
My
very
personal
appeal,
like
don't
quote
me
on
this,
like
you
know,
deploy
maker
on
finance
chain
with
a
very
low
debt
ceiling.
Just
to
you,
know,
drive
adoption
and
show
people
that
you
know
there's
a
maker
protocol.
You
know
on
day
one,
for
example
real
ethereum.