MakerDAO Open Decentralized Voter Committee, 14 Mar 2023

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From YouTube: Long Term Features + Product Changes - Decentralized Voter Committee | March 14th, 2023

Description

*Decentralized Voter Committee*
March 14th, 2023

*Description*
_The Decentralized Voter Committee (DVC) call is an ongoing series of open meetings where various elements of the Pregame and Endgame phases, Maker Constitution, and future direction of the DAO are clarified and discussed._

*Agenda and Timestamps*
0:00 Intro
13:49 Long Term Features and Product Changes

*Links*
Discussing Long Term Features and Product Changes https://forum.makerdao.com/t/tuesdays-endgame-call-discussing-long-term-features-and-product-changes/20183

*Disclaimer*
_This communication is provided for information purposes only. The views and opinions expressed in this meeting are those of people involved and do not reflect the official policy or position of MakerDAO or any of its contributors, Core Units, or affiliates. This communication makes no representations about the enduring accuracy of the information or its appropriateness for a given situation. This content is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as legal, business, investment, financial, or tax advice. You should consult your own advisers as to those matters. References to any digital assets and the use of finance-related terminology are for illustrative purposes only and do not constitute any recommendation for any action or an offer to provide investment, financial, or other advisory services._

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https://chat.makerdao.com

A

Good morning good evening- and I guess good afternoon maker dev community today is tuesday.

A

March 14th, uh with it being tuesday it's another round of end game calls uh today.

A

uh Roon is leading the discussion on features and product changes uh that are in scope for.

A

The long vision of endgame uh some familiar terms like metadats are re-emerging, but uh also going.

A

To explore some some new areas uh from the posts that were recently published, uh I'll drop, the link.

A

Here, if anybody wants to read along and with that we'll end up mike over the room, take it away, sir.

A

Thank you yeah, so I think I'll start with uh I'll start to talk a little about kind of the.

B

Plan for the plan for today and tomorrow and and thursday uh and uh then basically dive into like.

B

Yeah the content for today, and so today I think, like imagine today, will be this kind of like the.

B

Format of like the roon radio format, where I just talk about these different topics and then people.

B

Can can write questions about the individual thing uh in the chat, as I sort of talked about.

B

It and then until there's like and then, if we kind of catch a line of questions we dive into that.

B

uh And otherwise I just sort of ramble about the different stuff, um and so like it's a I.

B

Know that this format is like the most confusing from like people aren't really really deep into.

B

um In game right and it's confusing even for those who are, but the reason why this is really.

B

Important to do is because it's like you know, one of the things we have experienced is that.

B

It's frustrating for those who are trying to really keep up with. What's going on with.

B

Endgame and sort of the the kind of I mean you know the the thing I'm working on now. That is.

B

Like this, you know it still hasn't been published yet, but which is the actual endgame constitution.

B

Right so like the actual set of rules that will be really cool to the system for, and that I mean the.

B

Silver change dramatically right, but basically my the starting point that I want to to introduce as.

B

The place where this is where we we start off when we then iterated and improve it over the course.

B

Of the of the pregame right and uh yeah, I want to have as little surprises in that when it comes out.

B

For the for the kind of the really um you know, the core people who are involved because it yeah just.

B

Yeah, I guess it's annoying to like you know, make sense right. It's annoying to like move. Have this.

B

Struggling with like trying to keep an up-to-date mental model and then suddenly, like oh, turns out.

B

What I thought for the last month was different than uh you know, uh because already at that point.

B

There was this change and then that's the result in this change, and just nobody told me so.

B

uh Yeah, basically, um that's why I want to do these regularly. I basically do these like.

B

Shotgun overview of like these are the big things that that are kind of you know the.

B

Juicy stuff that that, where things change a lot in terms of like the yeah like the.

B

The design of like how the whole system works in india, um okay, so tim asks, can.

B

Delegates help with iterations. Are we already, depending on cbc's, to be helpful.

B

um Well, basically, uh that's uh I think, that's the same thing right, because I.

B

Mean the way that the constitution should be iterated on would be through uh the cbcs.

B

But of course now it doesn't matter because the constitution isn't affected, but the point.

B

Is that, by the time the constitution is in effect? This is. This is exactly the job that.

B

Delegates should be doing right, they should be in the cbcs and should help with iterate.

B

On you know, help with iterating on the rules and basically be sort of framework facing right. So the.

B

Key is that delegates should not be workforce facing. They should be sort of framework facing.

B

And it should be the facilitators and the advisory council that are at workforce facing.

B

um And actually so to sort of rewind it like get back, go back up the big pitch again and let let.

B

Me talk about like some of the the content for the next couple of days. Right so.

B

So that's today, right we'll talk about all these features and all this stuff, like I don't know it's.

B

A pretty intense way to start the week, um but I just like this is kind of this now like this, is.

B

Like kind of the, I think it's nearing the kind of the complete uh before um in terms of like.

B

What I'm I'm putting in the constitution, um so possibly there will be some small changes.

B

You know whatever next week in terms of how I communicate certain things, just things that I will.

B

Decide to include outside of the the high level uh overview, but my idea is to move from there onto.

B

Going through the same stuff again and again so people can get familiar with it over time.

B

Like there's no way, it'll make any sense the first time we make too much since it'll, be.

B

Very confusing the first time, but then as we're able to kind of um go over it. And- and I can just.

B

Repeat it basically and discuss it from different perspectives, then it'll be really important to.

B

Have that sense of like being on top of what's like what other big moving pieces? Basically.

B

um Okay, so then, uh tomorrow my thinking is: I'm actually not completely sure this will.

B

Be possible because I like, but it depends on on people's availability, but I think what we should.

B

um If it's possible, we should focus on, is to get basically to get rangers and and.

B

Like talk about real assets, but in particular this thing, like a rangers legal structures.

B

And then, like the people involved in the arrangers and, and you know, monocyles and.

B

Blacktown in particular, and and those like the other people's imagination adjacent to.

B

um Readable assets and to just like discuss that kind of a topic specifically, and I mean both.

B

Because there's now I mean there's this: like um dc increase for uh for um the clydesdale structure,.

B

And then there's like all this, there's like this, uh this confusion and sort of.

B

uh Concern around the fees for that right and how protected are these legal structures actually and.

B

I think it's like it's really really isn't it's such a fundamental thing that we, you know that.

B

That that the legal structures that maker uses for real assets that they are as strong as possible.

B

um And it's also really important that people understand like how they are safe, basically and.

B

How the mechanisms, work and there's even like there's even stuff that I'm I'm not still fully.

B

Like um familiar with right and and then then just unlike having a sort of a a call tomorrow, we could.

B

Really like try to meticulously go through the different bits and pieces of it and how we expect.

B

Them to evolve and so on and basically um yeah also just I mean and talk about like how to do.

B

Things like fees in the long run and try to figure that out um and then what's kind of uh you know.

B

um Relevant in that context is then, and because basically, this is something I'm like now that.

B

There is, I mean now that we're really gearing up rebel assets and and it's a it's a big deal right.

B

It's like it's a touchy subject in a sense because it's always it always feels scary, especially when.

B

It's like a we're just getting into it then, um and I basically want to get ahead off.

B

The conversation on like um conflict of interest- and I mean specifically related to like my own.

B

You know the fact that I've funded monetize myself right and there's been all this like.

B

um uh You know like conversation and communication about it in the past, but it's been.

B

Like there basically hasn't been any talk about it for like a very long time um and.

B

I think it's like yeah. This is like a relevant context. So then also get a.

B

Little bit into something like I mean here, rangers they're, very complex. You know like.

B

Entities in the ecosystem that are super super important information and extremely valuable.

B

But then that also naturally remains like this is one of the places where you can get very nervous.

B

Around a conflict of interest, and and how do we deal with that? Basically because, oh real, you know.

B

On one hand, the goal of end game is to really um you know, make a lot of kind of. I mean just.

B

Like make a lot of hard rules around it, but at the same time it's also kind of like you know, we.

B

Also have to to to be realistic about how we make those rules and then figure out how to make them.

B

How to make them able to to sort of um handle the reality of of uh how people.

B

Will be involved in different ways right and and yeah get to get to an outcome where.

B

The rules that we have are as workable as possible and then uh from there on thursday.

B

The idea is then, to just get generally into this concept of governance security of like that, the.

B

Checks and balances, like the role of the cbc, the role of the delegates, the role of the facilitator.

B

Daus and the core units. And what? How they're replacing the interim in the in pregame um and.

B

I mean and that I think it makes sense to sort of have that as a continuation of the.

B

Of the same type of discussions around like really trying to get a better sense of like.

B

What exactly is the work for these like key um roles, and- and you know how do we particularly.

B

Like how do we basically create all these like strong and powerful rules that protect.

B

The system in the way it needs to be protected, but also make it workable for the people and.

B

Make it make sure we can like attract the right people and and have it sort of be a.

C

um Like a functional um balance, basically.

B

Yeah then I think so. uh There should be like a really.

B

Much more detailed post on the fees for monetalis out.

B

Maybe it hasn't been posted, they should be posted, something on that uh relatively soon.

B

And then that can be like the that can be sort of the context for tomorrow's call and also then.

B

uh I think the governor's a risk potentially there's some intention to also have to go.

B

On that call, but then I think it's you know so look out for that post.

B

Okay, so to reiterate today.

B

Crazy room, radio about crazy, long-term features that will be repeated a couple of times and then.

B

Eventually, I'll drop the in-game constitution and then it'll be incorporated as like actual rules.

C

um Then, uh tomorrow we'll talk about arrangers and like monetize and block town in particular,.

B

And sort of get really into like then like those two companies and sort of how the the.

B

Structures and so on right and try to get it get more familiarity with them.

C

um And uh then uh thursday, we we talk about governance, security.

B

Oh yeah we'll be talking about um the arrangers and all that tomorrow and before that.

B

Before they call tomorrow, there will be this post to provide context for.

B

For the call tomorrow, right so there'll be they'll, be like some good uh explanation of.

B

All these different things and then we'll have a we'll have we tomorrow we'll have a conversation and we'll we'll like talk about this stuff in more detail.

B

B

Then uh yeah, basically, what I'll do is. I will share my screen with the forum post for the.

B

The um all the different.

B

Like the topics and then we'll just go through them, one by one and see what questions pop up.

B

B

Just to end this, uh let's talk about uh you know the current event with um if 6 departments, all.

B

Right so I just I just want to come comment on what do we sing right? I mean so first of.

B

All I think I definitely think like, like paper, is absolutely being like unnecessarily hostile and.

B

Just like his typical troll self, which is just fine, that's like the rollie he wants to play.

B

um But I also actually think I mean things are freaking wrong about. Him is sometimes he's right.

B

Right- and in this case I mean kind of in a general sense. uh It's definitely like, like I actually.

B

I don't agree that I mean I'm. Basically, I think it's important that there is this culture of like.

B

um And, of course, what's great is an end game there'll be like clear rules around.

B

When is the you know, when can a vote happen? When is it this information has to be there.

B

This stuff has to be cleared up. We need to have all that stuff. Super well defined in rules right.

B

But basically I mean there's no doubt that, like there needs to be uh clarity around.

B

um You know why uh the fees and this stuff right because I mean there's.

B

There's certainly like a concern right and not just like uh paper trolling right, but also.

B

um Like confusion right and and it shouldn't be, that it like the whole point of arranges- is.

B

Exactly that they don't just operate on on, like trust in, but there's some company that set it up.

B

In a way, that's great it's on right, I mean there. The point is actually that we can. We can verify.

B

That these structures work as advertised, right and and so like I said there will be.

B

um Like I think, hopefully like the the enough information to at least then have like a call.

B

And then, like on the call, like uh kind of um you know, get as many people as possible.

B

Comfortable and and familiar with with sort of uh understanding how like what I mean.

B

uh How does it already work and then how are we going to improve it in the future.

B

And and these types of things right I mean, can someone just point to the.

D

Documentation that authorized these payments I mean, I think that would clear up a lot.

B

Like I said there will be a post um all right, so the trouble is just three quarters of a billion.

D

Dollars and we didn't find out yeah this muted paper and I'm gonna kick him if he talks again.

B

Welcome to cbc, you know if you want to talk about, have your own meeting about this, then.

B

Yeah, okay, if you, if you have like, if you want to have a call about this with yourself or.

B

With other people you want to talk about with this topic, then go ahead and do that.

B

um But that's not what we're going to talk about in this call and.

B

Yeah, that's the amazing power of uh I don't know. What's called moderator or admin or whatever it.

B

Is I am on the sim call, but this is going to be the key for yeah. Of course, this is all recorded.

B

And this is all can be public right, but the point is this is exactly the key to how cbc is going.

B

To function right because unless we control sort of the um I mean the content, basically.

B

And we moderate the content, then it will always descend into this kind of like trolling political.

B

Personal insults and all this kind of stuff right, but that that politicians they thrive with right.

B

um And so yeah, like, I said, anyone's welcome to have their own call and and have a cbc or whatever.

B

I mean, of course, this is not a cbc currently, because that construct doesn't even exist.

B

um But it's really important that if we're going to have a conversation about.

B

um You know the arrangers and the legal structures, these very complex topics we have to have like.

B

The right context right and we need to do in a way, that's like structure and where we actually aim to.

B

Facilitate a you know, a helpful and constructive um dialogue with the people that want to.

B

You know collaborate because the problem is, of course, in the end, and this is kind.

B

Of like, what's so key about the cpcs in the end, in a down in like a political setting,.

B

um There's plenty of people that don't want to collaborate like they're, not interested in they're.

B

Not interested in peace right, they thrive on on conflict, um and this is kind of also one of the.

B

Key insights behind why we have to put so many restrictions on delegates. That's right, foreign.

B

Yeah so for the last time.

B

Before the call tomorrow, there'll be a post that will answer the they'll, give the like.

B

As much information as possible about this, and then it will be all presented in this like well.

C

um You know, uh well-reasoned, you know carefully thought through uh language that will then.

B

Hopefully, act as like the a nice starting point for having the um the conversation on the stomach.

B

But yeah with that, hopefully we're able to um to move on to the topic for this call, which is the.

B

um The features the longer features that are going in the in-game constitution.

C

B

So this is, I mean, yeah like this is fun, because I get to talk about all these.

B

Like fun features that I think I think all this stuff is like super awesome, but.

B

Of course, it's going to be very hard for people to process it initially for sure.

B

um But yeah I will basically just walk through it and then just ask any questions you you feel like.

B

First, off metal, dials and stuff, the house and allocators and facilities right so.

B

um There's basically like two major changes related to this right, so the first one is.

B

um Well, the first one is the name change of subtitles becoming metadats, which is.

B

Yeah, that's frustrating, but um it's a it's. A good change in that, uh like now sort of the metadata.

B

Name actually makes sense, and, and it ends up becoming the the kind of uh primary.

B

I mean it's like yeah like it becomes. The the way that these will likely to be known will be.

B

As men of as and then I'll I'll get in a second to, why is it that they're called meta dancing.

B

In its own right, but basically, if you often refer to them as men as like, whatever they are,.

B

So, in this case metals, then definitely it's much better than calling the metadatas and subtitles.

B

It's not a great um it's not like it's just not as a great a brand, basically as as meta down for sure.

B

um But then the key thing is the meta does, which are these? You know first level uh dials that are.

B

Sort of spawned algorithmically out of make a call.

C

um They now have, you know they used to have three classes right: creators, protectors and.

B

Facilitators and now two of the classes create, as protectors are going to merge.

B

uh Into this single class called the allocator, so you just have allocators and facilitators.

B

And so what that means is like for all the teams everyone's doing uh like I haven't told anyone in.

B

The like working in the middle ecosystem entrance anything like that about this. Yet, but I know this.

B

Is what they all wanted already so like um this is kind of a natural improvement where.

B

What this means is, if you know like everyone, can do everything right and, and teams that are.

B

Currently pursuing stuff, that's like decentralized focus, they have no, they won't have like awkward.

B

Restrictions on you're not allowed to touch real assets and so on, and then teams that are focused.

B

On real assets- and they can they're completely free to like also innovate in other directions,.

B

And they're not going to be this kind of it'll all be like allocators are then basically and.

B

You know they're just defined by basically being able to allocate collateral on behalf of maker.

B

um Yeah and then I think what this also does is it kind of like allocator and the thing about.

B

Allocating facilitator that I think, is different from something like create and protector. Is that.

B

They're much more like technical and kind of uh in the weeds sort of designations where.

B

It becomes it like the focus will become less on whether it's an allocator or as.

B

A facilitator- and it's much more like that. It's a metadata which is actually the right.

B

um Place to put the emphasis, because the number one thing that all men allows, whether they're.

B

Allocated to facilities the number one thing that they're always all about is decentralized.

B

Front ends right and user acquisition and basically getting users into decentralized.

B

Front ends where they can farm or access other other features of the system. Okay um and.

B

The allocator and facilitator designation is almost just like that's like a feature.

B

They've got so the allocators. Well, they have the feature that they can borrow from maker and they.

B

Can deploy that collateral and the facilitators? Well, they have the feature that they can hire.

B

These centralized specialized teams called the core units too, and they have these like sort.

B

Of admin, access or facilitator access to other, basically to the allocators and to make a call.

B

um But it's more like a feature right. It's it shouldn't necessarily be seen as much.

B

As like the overall like brand, I'm not sure if that makes sense, but what's so important.

B

About it is that, like it's really important to realize that all men are always focused.

B

On marketing user acquisition, front-ends user experience it's essential to a metadata to like.

B

Build this community and it cannot really do its other, like do its it's it's. It's special.

B

um Class kind of role correctly, if it isn't able to like grow its community.

B

B

um Yeah and then we have the third part right, so, let's kind of like metadata at.

B

The top, then there is allocated facilitator like the special role either it allocates.

B

Collateral or it facilitates governance and then, like the last, the third.

B

Sort of uh kind of major role they have is, then it's like the dao of taos. So in.

B

That sense, now the designation meta that makes sense. So this is the feature where.

B

uh Metals, they are able to generate subdials, which is then a completely new concept for a.

B

Sub-Dial of a sub tab or a subdial of metadata, so like a basically maker algorithmically on.

B

This, like fixed algorithmic, locked in cadence, that cannot be changed in any way right. It's.

B

Completely locked in in a smart contract, it generates a new mana down every year and then.

E

Once there's enough of them, it starts generating less than one every year. So you have some of this.

B

Logarithmic uh growth, in how many metadats there are and it's relatively slow. uh You know, I guess.

B

Currently, thinking of creating a new that, like a new stuff, that every year and you're.

B

Made of that every year that seems super super fast, but over time that will feel very slow.

C

um And uh the metadats themselves then have the ability to create sub-dials at will.

B

Through, like a governance decision, rather than some kind of preset um algorithm and.

B

Of course, in fact, they could put in place some kind of autonomous system that determines how.

B

Many and how often they create subtitles, but they could also change it at any time.

B

um And like basically, the reason why this is I mean this is this is kind of it seems like.

B

A sort of a crazy uh feature to have um and the thing about this. First of all, it's not.

B

Really it won't be relevant initially, so it's kind of going to be dormant, initially right.

B

But it's something that will be relevant later on and the reason why I think is so crucial to.

B

Have it in there from the sun and really have it sort of have the thought thought.

B

That, like thinking that stuff into the system room is, that is because, basically, first of all.

B

um It is simply just like it's absolutely fundamental that the cadence of the metados is.

B

Fixed and and cannot be managed through governance because then immediately you'd get this like.

B

uh Conflict of interest, where the existing metadats don't want new ones to be created right.

B

um And also just like it's just like it's exactly the kind of parameter you.

B

Don't want uh major governance messing around with.

C

B

But the problem is that with what's coming and well, hopefully when we will absolutely.

B

Lead the charge on right, where you basically can generate an entire.

B

Dial, using using ai tools right using scope frameworks that are powered by.

B

um Ai tools that can basically sort of have the whole thing up and running right, you'll.

B

Have an entire sort of fleshed out dial with a you know, a business case and a business model and.

B

uh Strategy plan and processes for executing on the strategy and a marketing plan and marketing.

B

Content and brand and artwork and everything right, uh you know all the the infrastructure for for.

B

Community interaction and all that kind of stuff right you you'll, be able to to spin that up super.

B

Fast, I mean, and already within a few years, it'll be possible to do it very very fast right, but then.

B

From there will only accelerate, uh and so it's clear to me- I mean I think that there's this like.

B

Intrinsic connection between dallas and artificial intelligence, basically, where like dials, are.

B

Basically, it is basically the type of organization that is most optimized for taking advantage.

B

um Of artificial intelligence, so, as that starts like dominating everything, then.

B

It'll be through the house eventually um and what I really would like. You know what would be.

B

Really kind of uh done to see is that we basically figure out how to do it and we learn how to like.

B

Supercharge organizations using ai, but we had code kind of in what gear we use this um power.

B

Essentially and then we are sort of running in first gear and launching a new. You know, ai.

B

Powered down every year and then someone else like just copies exactly what we're doing and then they.

B

Just adjust it from every year to every 10 minutes or something and then because they're spitting out.

B

A new ai pound, now every 10 minutes, they'll just like I mean they'll, consume everything.

B

um And they'll they'll, just like, surpass us because we're just being too slow, basically.

B

um And so the solution to this is to basically have this like third layer of subtitles that are.

B

uh Generated at a variable rate, depending on time like what? What can? What can our.

B

uh Sort of ecosystem intelligence handle in a sense right. What rate is it reasonable to.

B

To generate new dials uh and and then we can sort of keep up with it organically.

B

Without worrying about being being um sidelined by someone who, just like sort of.

B

um Yeah realize that it's kind of in some you know they're, just like crank up the speed.

B

Because we're we're we're kind of, uh I mean constitutionally stuck in not having it go.

B

uh Fast enough- and this is probably already touching on some stuff- that's.

B

Just like it's just like start to get hard to comprehend, like what.

B

Is this you know is the are we really gonna have like a new dao every 10 minutes.

B

um And I think it's just like yeah, I mean, of course I have no idea when that's gonna.

B

Happen but I mean basically I mean we're moving towards uh agi right, so the world will become.

B

Weirder and weirder in that sense, and and I really think that.

B

Like I said like, it will actually be like randomly and surprisingly but but it's it's very likely.

B

That it will exactly be using blockchain that this that's how it can kind of capture the value.

B

um Of uh of these, like uh improvements in the in the cutting edge of ai.

B

All right, let me go through the questions. Okay for smart country engineering organization,.

B

How do you create community and make user experience better? Your impact is very hard.

B

To quantify and because you're at the bottom of the stack you just don't directly, engage.

B

um Okay, so I think I think the context for this question is.

B

This sounds really on, like meta dials, sound, very difficult. If you're.

B

You're, a smart contract like if you're, smarter developers and you want to have a smart contract.

B

Development metadata, so the thing is- um and this is I mean and I'll have to just repeat this, like.

B

It's it's not like most people. Many people are just not like it's so hard to abstractly.

B

Understand this without really like thinking about it for a very long time and that kind of.

B

Trying to like almost like you know, I don't know visualize it or something like that right, but.

B

um So metal, that's just not gonna work. The way that we used to when I mean definitely not going.

B

To work at companies, it was not going to work like dallas, uh you know, because nowadays, when.

B

People say that you they just think of companies, mostly like there isn't really a whole lot.

B

Dials around that aren't just like companies with extra steps, basically, but but meta, dials and and.

B

Major endgame will be like really like something different and, and one of the number one ways that.

B

It will be completely different is that there will just be this like separation between.

B

This kind of the companies that make up the dow and the dow itself right so basically.

B

Like a smart country, engineering org right, that's a that's a a like that's a team of humans and.

B

And that's always going to be a company, so that's always going to be like separate from the metadata.

B

And at the same time, it can also be sort of a part of it and connect it to it right. But I.

B

Guess the answer to this question is the whole point and the whole advantage of this setup is.

B

uh As micro usual or they don't have to deal with this, what they can do is I mean what the way the.

B

Sub-Dials and the metadas will will um and and the maker dial will kind of what will be to them is.

B

Basically, a whole bunch of customers that always have stuff that need to get done and always have.

B

These, like bidding processes and rfcs and, like basically different process of saying, look, we need.

B

Like over here, someone needs this done and they're willing to pay like this and over.

B

Here so when you list them they're going to pay like this and and then there's some kind of like.

B

Free market, organic bidding process or whatever right, where there's this price discovery around.

B

um What's the value of of um you know highly competence micro developers if.

B

You know, and also probably also model junior micro developers to do stuff with less uh um security.

B

They have less lower security requirements or, whatever the you know, yeah and and won't this.

B

Be of course it's not just about like the cost and compensation and negotiation, it's also going to be.

B

This, like complete freedom to like work on what's interesting right, so it's like a kind of.

B

It's a it's a sort of um um uh it's a mix. Right of um uh you have.

B

Both the kind of compensation and the value created from the perspective of those pain and.

B

Then also the the reality that you know work isn't you know different types of work? Is it.

B

Has stimulates people in different ways when it should also be like? You want maximal freedom to.

B

Work on what you would like to work on as a as a company right, that's doing, work for for dallas.

B

um And so if this gets bootstrapped correctly, then we end up with this, like really nice mix.

B

Of both right, where you can you can optimize, you can just like, do the work that's going to pay the.

B

Most money or you can do the work, that's the most exciting and fun. You can do some kind of sweet.

B

Spot in between right, where you're doing getting paid well and you're getting doing stuff that.

B

You actually want to do, which is of course, ideally where I think that's what most people would prefer.

B

um And I definitely think really feeling and I'm like mixing those things with the top-down model.

B

Right, it can be very hard to coordinate that if you don't have the right tools.

B

um And this type of one labor cost to be re-inflated, because you're hiring contractors.

B

Not full-time employees yeah. I definitely think so, but um I mean that in general uh we should expect.

B

To pay more, but the thing is, what will also be different is the scope frameworks will put very.

B

You know well designed um kind of rules and boundaries around deliverables and kpis and.

B

Sort of uh like sort of how do you like? Basically, when do you have enough guarantees to actually pay.

B

Because you know that if you pay you're getting the value that you want- and I think that's the big.

B

Which that's the big trade-off between doing a contract or a type of model versus a full-time.

B

Employee type of model right because the problem is with full-time employees,.

B

Then it's sort of the prob it's the dallas problem. If um the work that ends up being done just isn't.

B

In the end, doesn't like produce the kind of value or whatever is for some reason, um like.

B

Was was aimed in the wrong direction? Somehow right, then that's the dallas problem, because.

B

uh Yeah, it's a thousand. It's the dallas responsibility to like give the basically.

B

Set the right tasks and set the right uh like sort of manage it, the right way right.

B

And with contractor type of work, then they'll I mean the beauty of that. Is you sort of you focus.

B

On what's the output and you basically, it's almost like a like the old, um uh the uh the prediction.

B

Market thing of, like you, can use a prediction market to get things created right where it's like.

B

um Basically, if this thing is built with these specifications, then the money will.

B

Go to whoever you know like look at the almost like look at the ethereum address.

B

That deployed the thing and send the money there or something right and and then, if you define it,.

B

That clearly, that, like, if we get this stuff with exactly these specifications, then we're.

B

Going to pay this much to wherever uh what you know yeah. Basically, whoever did that.

B

Of course it's not it's never going to be that simple, but it really it really.

B

Means that you, you get to a point where it's like it costs more, but you also get.

B

A lot more certainty around when you get and I think ultimately that's at.

B

Least, really strong in my my feeling in maker that, like it's not about the price, it's about.

B

What do we get from it and and yeah? So I think that's really. That is the right direction to go.

B

But it's not something, of course we should get. We cannot get there instantly like it's not like.

B

um The the workforce as a structure today can just immediately be given all these like very.

B

Strict and rigorous uh um specifications and have a competition on on like tender processes and all.

B

That stuff, like we're, not ready for that yet and maker, isn't ready for that at all right. The.

B

Scopes are like way too recruit to possibly handle something that right now, but that's.

B

Something we'll build out over the course of the pregame, and then we will get to the state where.

B

We then also have the meta dance and then that really it will be like this much more like living.

B

um Like free market for for this stuff, basically.

B

All right, then, we get to this fun part. This is like a huge huge deal, and this is kind of how.

B

The complexity of in-game is sort of funded in a sense, and I and and.

B

I've, never really I mean I'm. Actually it's like um it's only once I remove the.

B

um You know the uh the the farming emissions or the farming, whatever the farming distribution, to.

B

The heath, vault and sort of like this remove this sort of focus on each that that the designs or.

B

Progressed to a point where this it was possible to do this, and this is just such a crazy, powerful.

B

um Yeah, like decision to make, because this saves us unbelievable amounts of complexity in sort of.

B

The core of me correct, so basically they do. I mean basically um it's to it's basically emulating go.

B

Right other go: uh they they sort of came up with this model right and and it's it's something quite.

B

Similar to that right, where we're seeing the only thing that maker is um uh like doing when.

B

It comes to like synthetic acids, is it's just maintaining a single stable coin and that's it.

B

um And and so and it's focused only on the demand side right and then the whole way.

B

That that, like all the vault stuff like deploying vaults, to different blockchains,.

B

um Doing collateral onboarding for balls, doing mains and ends dealing with oracles dealing with.

B

Liquidations dealing with whatever security, like all of that stuff is just like outsourced to to.

B

um To the metadas right and the metadas have to put up their own junior capital.

B

For anything, they do so like any sort of any marginal decision related to should we do is.

B

This oracle or that oracle should be on well this collateral. That collateral, should we go to this.

B

L2 or that l2 none of those decisions are going to sort of impact uh like make everyone.

B

Pay for them make a want, get impacted by like a marginal uh loss related to that.

B

um Like it doesn't mean that that maker can like ignore, uh uh like all the risk and all the the.

B

Technical risk and the complexity of it at all, because the the tail risk is still completely.

B

There right and the tail risk in some sense might actually get worse, but the huge upside is now.

B

All the focus as it comes to sort of the the the um you know doing balls, like the all the focus.

B

On make a calls outside only is on the tail risk and the kind of the marginal operations of it. The.

B

Only thing maker has to do is just give the money to the metadata that pays the most guilt right.

B

um So the free you know so the free market can take care of it right, which is heavy. Whenever.

B

We can say that, and that actually works out right as long as maker is, is really really.

B

Strong on the on the tail risk, the the the kind of the um the the yeah the marginal.

B

Decision making can be entirely done and the marginal work can be entirely done in the in.

B

The middle- that's just like be completely so erased from uh the complexity that that.

B

Make a call has to deal with, and so that means that, like mkholders, they don't have. You know.

B

There's this example here right of how it's the recurring work and the complexity contained in.

B

Synthetic assets with shot involved engines at a multi collateral is unbelievably astoundingly.

B

Huge like it's just you know, let's say you know it's in the long run. It could be something like.

B

There is, uh I don't know, let's say, five synthetic acids right, there's like dollar and there's.

B

Euro and there's whatever there's five major currencies and then there's also, I don't know 20.

B

Other synthetic guesses, like you know, either die and oil dye and gold or whatever right.

B

So let's say you have 25 synthetic acids in total and then each of those 25 synthetic.

B

Acids they all have to you know they have to be. You know, like I mean in this old paradigm, they.

B

Would all be deployed on you know all the major l2s and let's say in the long run there will be.

B

I don't know freaking like 50 of those or something right. So now you have to deal.

B

With like 25 synthetic acids, all deploying across 50 l2s, so you already have this like.

B

uh You know the number of permutations is starting to to uh to explode right and then.

B

You get to the collect like the individual collateral onboarding and the individual.

B

Collateral parameter adjustment and it just gets like crazy and complicated right. It could be like.

B

Yeah, tens of collateral types per per um you know per volt engine per l2 per synthetic acid.

B

And, of course, that will all have to be managed with all the I mean it's not like, you would sit.

B

It would be at all possible to like manually control any of that stuff. You would have all.

B

These, like automated processes and so on for it, so it's not like like it, would absolutely be doable.

B

um But kind of doing it efficiently is going to be the big challenge right and then basically.

B

Now the the amazing upside we get is that um again maker doesn't have to care about how to.

B

Do it efficiently maker has to care about the tail risk? How to like? Do security on this oven.

B

And the metadata they'll just have to compete to figure out who can make money from doing it?.

B

um Yeah and then there's a yeah and then the same and for synthetic acids. It's like.

B

Completely, like maker, doesn't even really have to care about those at all actually, from from.

B

Any other perspective than legal and sort of uh pr risk, or something like that right.

B

um Because it's just completely out of the the scope, like maybe wouldn't even.

B

Like lend to something like that right so either die is like, and I mean this is.

B

It is a big departure right from the earlier design right, so either die is like completely.

B

Off the table right and either die, something like either die would be like an independent product.

B

uh Develop and launched by a metadata that they would just like do entirely on their.

B

Own and there will really be no connection to to make a call other than that there would.

B

Be some I mean obviously access to shared resources, and then there will be some like.

B

You know security requirements related to both, I guess the quality of the code itself.

B

um But also like the front ends, and so on so that I mean there would still be like.

B

Like you could end up with something that had a kind of a brand or a sort of.

B

Like a role of how we were in mission and either die, and but that could I mean that.

B

Has the sense of like it's inheriting the a lot of the qualities of maker.

B

That's doing that, but it would still just be like it would ultimately be like managed and run and.

B

And all sort of to I mean to the benefit of the metadata right and then maker would.

B

Support with these mechanisms that that, like these, these sort of shared.

B

um uh Sort of public good in the sense that mega creates for the meta mouse.

B

And make it would then also benefit through the the tokenomic tie-in to to like off the.

B

Financial success of the medical terms and how that ties into npr and maker.

B

um Yeah, but it's like one thing, is having to develop this the first time, but the real.

B

Savings is just like recurring work that is completely deleted uh and and the kind of.

B

Especially the challenge of making that recurring work, profitable and efficient.

B

Which is not something you wanna like it's difficult to try to do that in.

B

A cumbersome uh bureaucracy, right and saving that is really amazing.

B

uh Yeah and every it's really like hard to to um to overstate how massively this, like massive.

B

Departure of this is from like the original mission right, because this was probably like.

B

90 of the work that originally it was ambition to be like in the long run, 90 of what maker is.

B

Doing is like this stuff here, and this is like, where 90 of all like energy and processes and.

B

And all the stuff that, where all that goes and it can be replaced with something that is, is.

B

A lot similar right, which is this the allocator of stuff down, basically so sort of a side effect.

B

Of having the um allocated meta done right so side effect of having the metadataway, so we can.

B

We can uh really nicely um simplify this massively uh and yeah. It basically ends up.

B

Being something like article uh but more general because other go is confined to just allocating.

B

um You know just like allocating the stable coin and landing on the steam coins through other.

B

Instances- and this would be completely agnostic right- this could be of itself through ddms.

B

uh It could be compound, it could be other forks, it could be compound forks. It could.

B

Be some third thing if it's secure enough, of course I mean there's got to be some really.

B

Serious security standards right and it shouldn't be like it could, just like we yolo down there into.

B

Like the what's it called the euler finance, what it was called the thing that was hacked region.

B

Right of course, there really does have to be a lot of of um of uh protection around that right.

B

um But at least at minimum it fits really really nicely, of course, with with um I mean.

B

The existing d3ms to to um and compound, and then spark protocol and similar uh stuff like that that.

B

That could be made from the from the allocators right uh and in general. This is like, I think,.

B

This really gives the allocators such a kind of nice uh role to play right where it's like really.

B

Obvious that well, like maker, is not doing native vaults at all. Then there's absolutely value and.

B

Then, like being one of the like being the type of of uh of protocol, that can then do that that sort.

B

Of is, is sort of authorized by the system to be the layer in between maker and the and the users.

B

And then there's like is ai stuff, which is like a thing where I I go most sort.

B

Of leave leave orbit the most uh um when it comes to like how impactful uh this will be.

B

Well, yeah, like I said I mean I've talked about it before right. It's basically that.

B

The direction we're already going with the scope frameworks and the constitution.

B

Is to generate this type of amino like to call ecosystem intelligence right where there is.

B

Enough infrastructure in place that allows the community to sort of like it's not just about.

B

uh Like having smart people in the community, because you have these.

B

Smart people but they're like all kind of like and.

B

uh Like like uh they've gone misaligned like they're sort of misaligned generally right.

B

They've got misaligned incentives and then you know they also have misaligned.

B

uh Ideology and like views and- and uh you know, asynchronous information and all these.

B

Things are kind of like making it you take a bunch of smart people, and you put them.

B

In a dow and you get a stupid dial, basically, unless you have the right stuff in place to.

B

Then kind of uh facilitate this emergence of of ecosystem intelligence right and.

B

Once you have that the beginning of the then it just becomes the perfect place like it becomes.

B

The strongest possible place to then apply and basically like ai uh kind of enhancement of of.

B

Like the work and the processes, and in particular like you know, well, it's basically like we get.

B

Easy advanced rules right where we basically like pedantically like spell out every possible.

B

Permutation as a rule, and just have like hundreds of examples that describe this is what this.

B

Rule this is how it should be applied in this situation. In that situation, blah blah blah right.

B

And uh which is like I mean and having that amount of rules is like it's really useful.

B

In theory, if you had, if you were able to like then actually unders, you know look through all.

B

The examples and use that to like guide okay: we have this real life situation and then, let's.

B

Look through all the examples and find one of the examples and then that's very close to the.

B

The um that what actually happened in real life and what this means is, we already know how how we.

B

Should act in that situation because there already is like an example that sort of determines this is.

B

What should happen when you have these conditions right? The problem is, if you just did that, like.

B

Today, it would be, it would just be like even worse and more horrible masochistic bureaucracy.

B

Right because you're just like creating all these like rules that someone has to like read through.

B

But if you apply um ai to it right then it's basically like you just kind of.

E

um Yeah you just you just use the data from the rules to kind of like have a like to do.

B

um Well, I guess you could also even think of it like search right. You just have the the ai tools.

B

Kind of take care of all the boring stuff for you right and get get to the important stuff which is.

B

Having the two, I mean, having basically the relevant example side by side and so looking.

B

At the the objectively sort of the arguments for why should it be based on these things? We have.

B

That's been decided here and then they should be like this and based on this here it should.

B

Be like that, and even then this whole thing of like, but how does that tie into the constitution?.

B

And then there's all these like what is about the constitutional boundaries? What about some other.

B

They fix we're elsewhere right and that's basically, the ability to draw those connections.

B

That's the kind of stuff that and um that basically like the next gen uh advanced ai tools,.

B

um Like I mean we'll be able to do it very crudely at first and then soon enough, we'll.

B

Be able to do very very efficiently right, um and this then I mean this involves stuff like.

B

Allowing it I mean something like let's say in the context of of.

B

Monetize right and clydesdale- and this thing would like I mean it- should it would be possible to be.

B

Like what are the, what are the fees right and then like hear the fees like and then figure out where.

B

Is the where exactly is the rule that authorized the fees and how exactly did it occur? And then it.

B

Should even sort of automatically be the case that, with an ai you just immediately like analyze, every.

B

Single report or every single sort of action, every single new piece of data that comes in.

B

Analyze it for kind of conflicts with existing rules, something like that right, so you'd be like.

B

Okay: here's something like there's some stuff here, there's no rule! That explains. Why is this, for you.

B

Like this or something right, that's a that's, a that's, basically a something to flag and then.

B

In many cases you know the problem with ai. Is it's not consistent right? So often it will be.

B

Wrong, which is why you need humans in the end, you can't just like run it by with ai, but but what it.

B

Does is it draws attention to the places where the humans should be spending their their time.

B

Right away, they should be focused on, and even more importantly, it allows us to like generate.

B

The key context required for the humans and then like, engage on this area right, so you don't have.

B

A bunch of people, then you know, which is what always happens when real assets is. You just have.

B

A bunch of people that all have like different levels of of information and then they just get.

B

Like really upset with each other and you're, basically, just like you know, there's nothing that creates drama like real assets and that's because it's complex- and you have all this like.

B

um Information and so on knowledge just simulate a symmetry and that's exactly the kind of stuff that.

B

um Like like ai and llms, in particular, train for exactly this kind of stuff, that's really.

B

What what uh what it can do, um like already now, can do decently well and will be able to.

B

Do it in ways that are really uh incredible once it's been developed a little bit more.

B

um And the ones you can do these, like the basic functionalities I just described, which is kind of.

B

Like kind of operating with this kind of static to some extent, um uh kind of uh with processed.

B

Framework then, where it starts to go crazy, it gets so crazy. Is that then you can also just generate.

B

Like the kind of stuff from scratch, almost right- and so this is where it gets really interesting,.

B

With the metadars and the suburbs right, so this is how it becomes possible to like stand up and.

B

Metadata with just few people who actually don't really know what they're doing they just have some.

B

Kind of you know they just have some idea for like what what makes them interested and and.

B

And you know kind of the direction they they feel like going. They kind of just have to provide a.

B

Seed in a sense and then we're the right tools you can sort of like you have a I just extrapolate.

B

From that and kind of um you determine what is what is it kind of a? I mean something: what's.

B

What's a constitutional way to do it right so then, maybe uh this is kind of another key thing with ai.

B

Is this is how, generally it will it'll just help so significantly with kind of like creating this.

B

They're creating a kind of an ossified um uh equilibrium, but that doesn't have to.

B

Be driven by dot map because there's you know the ai. Actually you know with enough I mean with with.

B

Sort of with enough kind of of sophistication- it's not just that you have this sense of like.

B

um You can't change things because you just can't change things, because it is, it is up to the demo.

B

To change things right, which is sort of uh how things often ossify right, but actually that it's.

B

Simply like look here is kind of the game theory of why, whenever you want to change something you.

B

Have to be really really, you know. You really need to like understand that that there's a lot.

B

Of consequences from changing stuff, but on the other hand, if you have a really good reason to.

B

Change something it absolutely should be possible. It should be easy if, like it's really clear that.

B

There's a really good reason here to to um to change something right and and uh but anyway so.

B

That that power means that you can really sort of generate entire dials uh and and again yeah.

B

You all you need like the the key thing that you need are just like motivated humans that are gonna.

B

uh Kind of spend the effort to actually watch over what the what the ai is doing and.

B

Prevent it from like spinning out of control right and then also playing the role of like.

B

um Ultimately, also kind of like uh overseeing the work of the workforce and so on. Right and.

B

Then the general role that token holders have an in-game which is basically to be.

B

The the sort of the avarice of what is what is uh honest and what is misaligned basically.

B

um And then be the kind of the source of bias innocence.

B

uh That kind of yeah that brings the seed to the system.

B

um Yeah so who is developing these ais so actually really really uh randomly, but there's actually.

B

um Like an extra maker uh founder, that's already doing a startup focused on this.

B

And I think that's like the leading that's the industry leading um startup doing uh basically.

B

I mean I would call this like the outer layer right of of um of the kind of the the ecosystem.

B

Intelligence um uh kind of ai infrastructure, which is the what I'll call the marketing chat, bots.

B

Basically, so that's basically just like basically imagine endgame documentation, but instead of being.

B

Like you have to you know, it's just like all these massive documents and and it's sort of.

B

Very imposing then it's just a chatbot that can like answer all your questions about it right.

B

um And then tell your way to go and look for more info um and just something like that.

B

Right that allows you to like understand: what's the difference between a psn and a.

B

Involved and what's the difference between an allocator and a facilitator and.

B

These really basic things right like why you know why, like imagine, a chatbot that can answer.

B

Why, uh like explain the trilemma of what you cannot scale a decentralized stable coin, uh if.

B

You use pure decentralized collateral, and rather what happens if you try to do that.

B

And all that this kind of stuff right, um like already that if everybody had an assistant like.

B

That when they engaged in governance already, then I mean I'm sure that there would be a massive.

B

um You know sort of productivity, boost and kind of x. You know increases in accessibility right.

B

And that really should be like the the short term goal of like executing in this round is just like.

B

um It's like I mean try to to like use, use chatbots to make this stuff accessible, because.

B

It allows you to just like type in whatever it is that you don't that you is like the.

B

Most confusing thing and then just start from there and then basically go from there.

B

um But for the for the really, what I think is the really exciting stuff is, then, is what I.

B

Sort of call this sort of the core ai right, so that is the so where a marketing chatbot.

B

Or something the thing about that is, it's still. It's called aesthetic in.

B

The sense that what it does is it just it's designed to like explain: what's there right.

B

But the thing that is like super exciting is to have ai tools that.

B

Builds the stuff that's there and then also kind of like operates. What's there right.

B

um And uh and so the and generally the way to sort of think about different.

B

At least currently, this is kind of like the current paradigm. The way to do when you think.

B

About different types of ai and different use cases, the kind of distinguishing factor is.

B

Basically, the hardware on it, so an educational chatbot um like it, it has to be very limited in.

B

And you know how much like how powerful hardware it requires right because yeah, otherwise it just.

B

Gets too expensive like they have to be so small scale that they, you can run them in cheap hardware,.

B

So you can offer them to users for free right, because I mean the moment that is not free and.

A

It's not fast, then it's completely pointless right, um but when you think of like the core.

B

Ai, that's kind of supposed to run the system and and build the system, and you know like the thing.

B

That, like generates 500 examples around how to negotiate. uh uh You know uh like a proposal to.

B

um I don't know deploy, you know, deploy more like deploy, dial liquidity on the new shot or something.

B

um That that type of ai, that's like something that right now isn't done at all, really like.

B

There there's some kind of um like like there's a lot of adjacent stuff, but but.

B

uh Basically, a very fundamentally what this can be described, as is uh business process.

B

Analysis and basically you know: ai assisted business process, analysis um and uh yeah. I.

C

Mean I think, actually it's it's. I mean I always love this. Whenever I see this kind of stuff.

B

um When I'm uh evaluating uh business models and business opportunities right, one of the really.

B

Sweet spots to find is when there's something that's like too boring and nobody's done. It.

B

Because the thing is too boring, and I think this is actually one of those things where it's like.

B

It just too freaking like dry to make an ai that generates. uh You know massive amounts of.

B

Bureaucracy which, oh you know, which is how many people would think of it as right. This is like.

B

The least exciting place you could possibly apply uh ai, uh at least that I mean at least it doesn't.

B

Seem like anyone's anyone's doing um doing something on that. Just yet, uh or maybe I just.

B

Haven't found it, and it would be, of course, super amazing if there's already something being done.

C

um But uh what um uh yeah, but basically the way! I think that we should execute in this right.

B

Is so, first of all, the entire focus should just be on the educational chatbot thing. I.

B

Think I mean that should that's, because that's something that can be done immediately right.

B

But then, um basically we already have this project, which is the dow toolkit project right and and the.

B

Key thing is that the dow toolkit project should just be like expanded to then also not just build.

B

The kind of interface and the the kind of software and api and and database for how do you, like.

B

How do you contain the scope frameworks? How do you contain the kind of the data that they require to.

B

Resurfaced and, and so how do you display these things right? How do you display all the scopes.

B

How do you make it easy to sort of get the high level picture of governance and dive into.

B

Specific things and how to how to like relate any data point you see with this specific rule.

B

You know so it's kind of like the whole, the the clydesdale question right of like, if you see.

B

Some fee somewhere, then the dow toolkit sort of links to exact rule and the exact boundaries of.

B

Like what authorizes fee, how can you learn more about it? How can you, whatever right.

B

um But that's just like the kind of the web 2 uh version of it or whatever you want to call it.

B

That's like the the actually the sort of the basic version of it right. It's like a human, readable.

B

um Kind of uh living document, or something like that, like their website in a sense.

B

Right or erp system is also another way to think of it. That just like implements.

B

Some kind of I mean at the bottom runs on the scope frameworks and then kind of.

B

Generates the content out of the rules described in the scope framework.

B

Foreign, but then that's like that is the perfect place to then uh develop this next step of, like.

B

Basically, um I mean, I guess the first step is actually like the educational thing of.

B

Just like asking questions and getting answers right and then being led to the place in the in.

B

The dark toolkit where it's relevant, but then the next thing is something like compare like.

B

You know this pro like something like this process: uh it needs to output a report or something like.

B

That right and the report needs to be based on all these rules about there's all these rules.

B

Related to this process and then there's a report that comes out and then you want to ask the you.

B

Know you want to compare the report to the rules and see if there's something getting flat, such as.

B

um Payments that are just not like they're, you know, like the legal structure, is not.

B

Supposed to support these payments according to the rules, but we see the payments occurred.

B

That's a something that needs to be flagged. I mean that's like that is like a you know,.

B

Like maybe it's just a misunderstanding, but at least it's something that needs to be figured.

B

Out, right and and shouldn't just be like shouldn't, just like trust that it's okay.

B

If something needs to be dug into and then whatever happened, whatever the course is,.

B

The you know the fact that it wasn't immediately apparent to the system.

B

That needs to be used to sort of then uh create more clarity around the rules, create more data.

B

Create more information and kind of expand it up right so that you every single time.

B

um Basically, some kind of ambiguity or a problem or potential problem.

B

It's discovered it becomes this, like. I mean learning, opportunity right.

B

And then ecosystem intelligence is just gross as people use. It.

B

And then the last step is then like the actual generation of of new rules right and what, at one.

B

Point it becomes like in us in a metadata, it becomes like, uh you know, uh generate.

B

Constitution- and I guess many of us- don't need to have constitution, but the generate scope.

B

Frameworks for a whatever um you know, climate finance focused medical or something, and then it.

B

Just like generates full set of minute generates a real asset scope and a marketing scope, and that.

B

I don't know charity measurement, scope and an hr scope and whatever it is right and all the.

B

Rules for all that in the compensation and how to pick your rangers and how to.

B

Measure impact and write which auditing companies for to get your smart contracts audited, which, like.

B

All of edges, like should just you know you can just generate that once you get it basically.

B

Once you get it big and strong enough right, which it was impossible to say how long that will take.

B

But it's guaranteed, it will be, it will happen and then once they're generated, then you can operate.

B

Them you can operate based on them as well right, then, you just just open up floodgates and you get.

B

Bitters coming in and those beta is probably also running their own ai tools right and they have an.

B

Automated ai, it's like, oh here's, a good. You know we're a company we're constantly scanning all the.

B

Metadatas we've got opportunities and then we find one. We immediately submit a bid and try to to see.

B

If we can get a fit and and and so that the people who actually make the decisions in those companies.

B

They don't have to go through that whole dance. They just get the offers and like we can do this.

B

For this much money and blah blah, and it's fully negotiated, it's ready to go. It's going to start in.

B

A week we can do this for blah blah and, like all the terms, everything's done and it's ready to go.

B

As well right and that's the kind of that's the power of of business process, analysis basically.

B

um Yeah and then, of course, that last kind of.

B

um Dimension to this in a sense, is that very quickly a lot of the business process, optimization.

B

Becomes uh how do we get basically stronger ai tools and how to get more hardware to do even.

B

Better business process analysis right and that's the kind of a really exciting part where, like as I.

B

See this is like the closest step that's currently possible to like generate an intelligent explosion.

B

Basically, where you like, you're using ai, to make stronger ai, obviously, but first, it's not like.

B

Directly, it's not like it's like a neural network, just like growing itself. It's this ecosystem.

B

Intelligence right, like humans and ai, working together to continuously improve how they can.

B

Work together to generate more and more value, so they can invest that value into even more. You know.

B

Developing even further how they can work together even more on generate even more values if they can.

B

And round it goes right and then at some point this will like collapse on itself and you get.

B

You just get like this sort of pure intelligence explosion of just like ai generating ai, basically.

B

um So that's fun. I mean that's. That's uh that's uh that's to me. Why, like in the end, um basically this.

B

Design uh completely sort of transcends uh stable coins right and even maker right, and that's also.

B

What I said that like, um should the vce's decide to to shut it down and take control and decide.

B

They want to do something else with maker, then, for my perspective, that's totally that's I mean.

B

Of course, in the end, this project started out as a way to like save maker from all these, like.

B

Inherent flaws and then it turns out, you know, to fix the politics. You have to solve uh artificial.

B

General intelligence right, but basically- and I have actually said something like that like over.

B

The years I mean it's kind of been clear that that um that the human layer of dials are just like.

B

um It's an insane challenge, but it turns out the solution is.

B

Also, unbelievably powerful and in the end like whoever I mean, and it's not going to be a matter.

B

Of of like kind of uh absolute size, basically, it's simply going to be a matter of like the.

B

Marginal ability to kind of like use, artificial intelligence to improve processes to enable you.

B

To better use artificial intelligence to better improve your processes and then basically generate.

B

Generate more dialysis that you know more more structure that maintains this.

B

Like level of efficiency based on these, like there's this um business process, optimization.

B

um So uh so yeah I mean I'm at the point where I'm perfectly uh just as excited basically to.

B

Apply this to maker, as as I am to just launch it from scratch, because in the end, I don't.

B

Think it will take much it's more going to be a matter of like getting the ai done. Basically,.

B

uh Until you basically get to the point where this just like um you know, I just.

B

uh You know it's a reaches critical mass right and it just gets get this exponential growth.

B

um And there's this like, whatever funny side effect or whatever of.

B

What's also interesting about this is obviously to use this like the way you make. This really.

B

Work in a decentralized setting is um you have to give all the total models access.

B

To using this like very powerful ai at the core that allows them to like analyze, whether.

B

Like give them a report on, what's this process, was it done correctly? Was it constitutional.

B

Was it whatever blah blah? Is there some potential conflict interest like all the kind of stuff that.

B

Look like mkholders and cc's, for instance, things that they need to to be on top of.

B

um But then there's no, if you're already doing that and you already get token getting it then.

B

There's no reason why you shouldn't just like: let that be basically a utility of him yeah, that, like.

A

Anyone should be able to use mpr to do this kind of stuff for their own business right, so you can.

B

Be some like random startup, then you buy a bunch of mprs. So you can you know you take all your.

B

Invoices, you take a random like vision, documents and culture statements and all the basically.

B

Whatever data you have, that's I mean um that that can fit into the the context of the of the.

B

You know the ai system.

B

um You just dump it in there and then spits out all these like rigorous, like these processes.

B

You know this is how it all works right. This is how your these are invoices. This is how you.

B

Your suppliers they're categorized like this. These are the alternatives. This is how you.

B

Negotiate with them, this is the blah blah. That's margaret ray disabled right, like all the kind of.

B

The the stuff that today, when you're starting a company you're like scrambling to like.

B

um Yeah right you just you really want to do the stuff you're good at, but ninety percent of.

B

The time you're doing stuff, that is just like the boring stuff that that sucks when you, when.

B

You're doing companies right and obviously you will never be able to automate all of it. But.

B

But definitely so much of that stuff can just be like automated away, because it literally is just.

B

You know babbling out words, which is exactly what the ai is created currently.

B

Okay, we're running out of time, but let's get to really um spicy and uh and uh yeah. I think.

B

Like hard to swallow uh thing with the l1, and so basically I mean, as I've talked about l2s.

B

And so on, but it's actually clear to me now: it's like like um it's just the right decision is to.

B

um I mean bootstravences someone ethereum and sort of build out the build out.

B

Become the first stage of in-game and ethereum, but ultimately move the kind of actually, as as.

B

Quickly as possible, which of course takes time but move it to to its own l1 um and then use this l1s.

B

um Basically, like a multi-chain hub based on optimistic bridges to then.

B

Like access assets, I mean allow collateral and ethereum like it may be able to hold.

B

State beta and ethereum be able to hold, I don't know I mean ethereum is pretty.

B

Much the only interesting blockchain right now, and maybe that continues to.

B

Be the case forever, maybe not right, maybe those other assets are also interesting.

B

uh Anyhow, like I said someone talks about customers right, but so before we get into.

B

The details of it, then the actually, the underlying reason why this is actually the.

B

Easiest approach is because of where to shutdown, so emergency shutdown. Is this unknown thing like.

B

This kind of forgotten strange thing that that the it's just kind of most people, just like I.

B

Guess pretend it does exist or don't even know it exists or yeah. I think those are the two things.

B

You either pretend it doesn't exist or you you don't know, exists right, but it's the reason why.

B

um If somebody gets the majority voting power and armor, as far as I understand.

B

This is still the case today, at least so I'm gonna guess the majority power.

A

And are but they're gonna just deal all the money and you can like profitably.

B

I mean if you can get your hands enough under get your hands on enough of the tokens. You could steal.

B

The collateral, but you can do that with maker today, because of it emergency shutdown is sort of.

B

The game theory uh relates to that, but the problem is like this is an insanely difficult like it's.

B

It's one of it's I mean, I think it's the number one reason why uh maker code is just like more.

B

Advanced than than other stuff is because no one else has been crazy enough to build this.

B

Into their system- and it's already advanced for like mcd on mainnet but.

B

It gets completely out of control when you try to build something in this multi-chain.

B

um Which is also another good reason to like not like well or rather so, then you can remove native.

B

Vaults and so on, and you can sort of like free up that complexity. But the problem is.

B

You still need, I mean for the emergency shutdown game theory to work.

B

um You still need to apply it to sub-dials right metadas. If you don't apply to the allocators, then.

B

It's kind of I mean, then they just get governance attacks. Whatever you, then you haven't really.

B

Solved the problem and and yeah it's a freaking like it has to be there in the long run. Otherwise.

E

It's just like you can't. You definitely cannot uh say end game without, if you're solving the.

B

Problem of emergency shutdown, but uh it's not it's it's a it's a crazy, difficult challenge and.

B

For the first time, I've been able to like design a solution that actually is like.

B

um Like it works and you can sort of explain how it works and you sort of trace, how is it possible.

B

To do it, how is it realistic and doesn't explode in complexity and and all these like cross-chain.

B

Edge cases and so on, and, and so it basically is, uh uh you know um an l1 that can be hard. Forked right.

B

uh So the the emergency shutdown as kind of the core of meager uh like if you don't even.

B

Have that you just have hard forks instead right and the hard fork is kind of the.

B

The equivalent of the emergency shutdown and then you have these optimistic bridges.

B

And then they basically had their own kind of simplified version of emergency shutdown.

B

Of kind of like reversing and and sort of uh sort of minority uh governance uh ability to to kind of.

B

um Shut down and settle the assets, uh and this just like it, it allows the design to kind of like.

B

Abstract away the complex, like this complexity that you otherwise exist, of how you have to like.

B

Reach into everywhere and like reach all the way in and then you have like polar assets, all.

B

The way out- and you have to like do that in an instant and then after doing it, you have.

B

To somehow like reverse it all again, but we're like the bad actor removed out or something and.

B

And then the user experience should be like crystal clear and and clean and and the user.

B

Shouldn't get annoyed and, and you know, scared away from the project forever, uh and that is just.

B

um Yeah, that is pretty much impossible with kind of the classic emergency, but this would.

B

Actually allow it to like it's anyway. That's my current thinking and and there's a lot more to.

B

Dig into that- and it's certainly not it's kind of one of the last steps right would be to to.

B

Get into this, but but it is in the end, it's like the emergency shutdown and like fixing this stuff.

B

Of like the real long run challenges, um obviously it cannot be forgotten right because then you can.

B

End up with, like some kind of in-game equilibrium we just like, have this gaming hole where one day.

B

The system just shuts down and it's just game over or even worse, all the collateral is stolen and you.

B

Know we accidentally cause a humanitarian catastrophe or something right, because.

B

You know millions of people lose their life savings or something crazy right. So.

B

um It like it this the time to to uh solve that problem is now basically.

B

um Yeah and then it turns out that, like cosmos, has all these tools and customers.

B

Like customers is amazing, I I always been like an ethereum maximus, so it's very.

B

Tough for me to like accept that that cosmos is totally amazing, but there's some really cool.

B

um Stuff happening because everything is customers, like you know, every time they.

B

Build something new: they build it from a clean slate, so there's just a lot of um yeah. You know.

B

There's no technical debt. Basically, so things move a lot faster in that in that realm,.

B

uh And I have a bunch of of uh of like I mean one thing like there's amazing there's some.

B

Kind of cosmos, there's cosmos like roll-ups, that I think the roll-ups already decentralized and.

B

Already they already work and they're, you can like it's just ready to copy paste. Basically.

B

uh And then there's like this mev, like in protocol meb, which I think is really great.

B

um So you, basically, if you don't yeah you kind of like you, you remove the possibility for.

B

uh External actors to extract most of the day, maybe.

B

um And and that's actually huge for something insane like like uh metadas.

B

And something else and tokenomics and tokens uh going in circles in a in a big uh arcade.

B

uh Gamified uh financial experience right um and the problem is, I mean when you do that in.

B

Ethereum actually, like generally, the tokenomics is assigned for value recapture, but the one thing.

B

It kind of recapture is the ab basically right, so they will. It will leak a huge amount of mov.

B

Coming from like converting tokens back and forth and so on, uh and then like being able.

B

To to recapture that, by doing it on on a native l1, that's uh that's amazing right, because that.

B

Really, like shows up like the final, some one of the final pieces of like efficiency of this system,.

B

And then uh the last thing I I just want to comment on a state rent, which is something.

B

Where, like like, um like no one's, been sort of blame it well, there's some been attempts to do it.

B

But like, ultimately, uh I think, there's like just dealing with like state rent is just like. It has.

B

To be done to to like it, it could really bring a blockchain technology forward because it just.

B

Yeah I just like it it kind of like it's the kind of uh elephant in the room. I think right now, but.

B

For for a lot of like stuff related to to um to block like to decentralization and scaling and.

B

Anti-Fragility and so on, blockchains and there's this really cool kind of um synergy in a sense.

B

Right between die is a stable coin. That's sort of optimized for die savings rate and farming and.

B

Basically yield and then state rent, because you can then have some kind of system where well you.

B

Just pay your state rent what's over, yield right, so so you actually don't have this experience of.

B

Like losing funds, unless you've got dust, uh but then I mean the thing is: just dust is just like.

B

Like it's a bad thing, basically in blockchains right and it's a kind of behave like users.

B

Leaving dust around on a blockchain is just like something: you want it's good to have a you know.

B

A mechanism that prevents that behavior, because it's just overall a little bit.

B

Yeah, what's the what's freaking cool is it customers has all of that? You can just copy.

B

Paste, okay slightly more difficult than that, but um but I think it would like.

B

The holes of l1 project would be this like perfect place to just like start off with the.

B

Contractor model right, so it's like have some massive budget but they'd be like look this.

B

Budget is going to like the finished thing that functions. The way we wanted to function and it's.

B

Done and it's audited and you know everything is delivered and then the big payout happens right.

B

um I think that would uh I think that that may uh be possible because there's just like, like what's.

B

Cool about cosmos is that there are so many like nerds kind of like doing this stuff for like for.

B

The science almost um yeah- I don't know, though, if it's probably not that easy, either right, but.

B

um But there's there's an incredible amounts like incredible value in it. If we figure out.

B

The bridge stuff and that's where we're so strong with bridges right, we have mega telephone almost.

B

Done so we have kind of we have the that's very specific and very uh crucial uh capability to to.

B

Develop secure, bridges, right and, and all that's really needed is having a secure.

B

Bridge between an l1 like this and then ethereum right, because of course the theory was still like.

B

The main place where um we sort of operate as like a sort of the I mean ethereum, l2s and so.

B

On that's where we would operate as like the and to sort of reach the the users and the.

B

Customers and so on, right and the l1 would be more of like the internal, crazy, tokenomics and.

B

People coming to farm and tokens going around and metadals trading with other meta, dials and.

B

Farming other men at a house and whatever all this stuff, whatever yeah, however, did it all play out.

C

B

Is this thing simplification of the first wave of in-game trigonomics? So this actually, I think.

B

Significantly speeds up launch of the metadataos.

B

um And the thing that enables this, so it is kind of it's. It's.

B

Totally compatible like so yeah, unfortunately, I still cannot get rid of the elixir and all.

B

That stuff, that's like that's pretty much gonna stay, um but initially it can be gotten rid of.

B

And then just develop into this, like the thing of like the token going inside the other token and.

B

All that stuff, which gets extra fun once you've, got the second layer with the sub dallas, but.

B

That's pretty much just like a repeat, so you have you have maker elixir and then you have meta alex.

B

Here and then you have sub alexia and the sub elixir is um subbed out token against metadata.

B

And then meta elixir is metadata token against npr and then make your elixirs npr gets done. So.

B

That's fun touch, but the point is so. We won't need that initially uh instead, initially, it simply is.

B

uh Metadata tokens are farmed to like die holders, 75 percent goes to die holders and 25 goes down.

B

Careless, if you're lucky in the sagittarius and didn't like yeah yeah, um and then you found these.

B

These metadata tokens and then you can take the metadata tokens and then you can use those to farm.

B

um So like the two tokens to sort of farm each other, and so then there's no. This thing of like.

B

Building up the the acid inside and so on, it's just like you can farm a token like.

B

Basically, mkholders and and their customers, so that holders they can find the metal.

B

Tokens and the metadata tokens holders they can farm the um the the impertons.

B

um And then so the final piece to make our work is then this thing so there's kind of two parts.

B

To this right, but it's basically it's like. If we get rid of native volts, then the entire focus of.

B

Maker governance becomes the sort of the demand side and like die as a product and managing diet.

B

Managing the pack and so on, and then the first thing I think is like that. I should be. You know.

B

Should not be centralized stable hundred ratio like, except that it's it's soft picked and that's.

B

How it's designed and there's actually already like this good, um it's already like a post by.

B

um Especially finance sort of argument, basically, these two points right on one.

B

Hand that I shouldn't be like, uh like hot picked one-to-one, because it creates this like first, it.

B

Creates like the wrong impression that it does a hard pick when it isn't right, because it can.

B

Run out, the psm can run out of stable coins as it is today, and that would still keep running.

B

And it would just be like it'll, be a part of the design right, but you have a lot of users.

B

Get very upset if that happened, and they hadn't you know, and they they weren't, expecting it right.

B

So then the solution is that there's a curve where it's not like, you can have a bank run and suddenly.

B

You run out of liquidity, it's more like the pig is never a second one. It's sort of like fluctuating.

B

And then, instead of the majority of like the text, ability and liquidity coming from these, like sort.

B

Of brute force, methods of just having all the liquidity on chain, the liquidity and stability.

B

Comes primarily from market forces, basically arbitrating, all the the um like uh the instability.

B

Basically and the the supply and demand- and if you do that, then you can basically have a lot.

B

Less stable coin exposure and a lot more yield collateral exposure right, so you can pick this.

B

Like really good safety or collateral treasuries right now is obviously the really big one and.

B

That, in turn allows the you know, allows diet to distinguish itself as having this like focus on.

B

Providing very you know, efficient and good and safe, um you know, dynamics rate and then also.

B

Farming which basically recatches the dice every three right, because you have to pick one of the.

B

Two, so the ability to to you know to allocate the vast majority of the collateral portfolio.

B

Into these like safe uh yield, collateral assets, um it's like yeah, it's like really great for for.

B

um For just like making it all work and then making it makes sense that that dyson soft picked.

B

um And then the other thing is this: like duration features, which uh I.

B

Was just fighting about in the in the chat earlier right, but basically that.

B

And as a new piece of like core overhead and core complexity, uh so unfortunately uh that does add.

B

Some recurring work, but basically so instead of having synthetic assets instead, but so no.

B

Native holes no specific assets, but now suddenly this focus on like different, um like basically.

B

A smart contract that allows users to like lock up their die longer term and then getting.

B

uh Basically, getting an advantage from doing that because, when die is locked up longer term.

B

uh It can lock, you know it allows maker to take to basically allocate to to long long duration,.

B

Yield collateral and then and sort of manage it, it's uh doing alien, better right and then.

B

um There's some kind of model in like uh creates a kind of yield curve in a sense right where.

B

Depending on how long you um you log in you, can get more benefits and this lock-in functionality.

B

Is also what allows this very simple thing of just like distributive tools, because you don't.

B

Want this thing of like handing out tokens left and right, and then everyone just like leaves and.

B

Dumps all the time and everyone's just gone and the party's over right. Instead, you want this like.

B

This this way with this to sort of lock into the ecosystem. So you just apply this same stuff to.

B

How you find these tokens, basically that you like, find more tokens if you lock up longer.

B

Like you found more metadat, so it means if you lock up your dialogue.

B

um And you don't really find that much if you just have uh instant demand uh die, that is, farming.

B

uh And then, when you get the meta.com, then I guess somehow for those there should also be.

B

Like a lockup, so if you want to farm the mkr with a metal term, you can do it. If you have.

B

A lockup, and if you you don't have any lockup at all, then maybe you can farm a tiny amount.

B

Or you can't even farm at all, you can just you know, wait until you feel like selling the total.

B

um And then there's like the rebrand thing, yeah we've talked about that quite a lot before.

B

um But yeah I basically like I said I think that and I actually haven't so I have I've been buying.

B

Tons of domains- and I have I think I have I mean it's unfortunately like the the kind of.

B

Brand that I think is is going to be the the you know: what can bring in new users that are not like.

B

Crypto bros that's a little.

B

Disparaging, I guess right, but I mean ultimately that's kind of where I mean like that is where.

B

All crypto projects should desperately attempt to bring out of the crypto bubble right, um but.

B

Unfortunately, like I mean the kind of branding that can do, that is going not going to be as cool.

B

As what I think most people in major and what sort of what I myself definitely would would appeal to.

B

Me as what I think would be really cool right um and so like, like. I talked a lot about before.

B

I think the best like what seems to me is like really there's. The the best option is to focus.

B

On something that um is like a play on the word dollar, basically, so you don't you don't call.

B

The same something with usd because that's going too far and that's like stepping in a minefield.

B

Right and it sort of breaks this, it breaks this problem of being soft pick. It I mean it breaks.

B

This thing a big soft making and creates this huge problem with you later fully dpa right.

B

um So it's not like it's not future proof in essence, um but if you just have some.

B

Like cool word, that's like cool like die or whatever, and I guess die, maybe yeah.

B

Maybe not even the best word right, but some random work. um Then the problem is you get this issue of.

B

Trying to explain that it's not a random crypto, it's a stable coin and that's why all the stable.

B

Fines that have usd in their name right, because then you immediately signal it. It's a stable point.

B

And well, I think, like the heavy metal ground is to then have a name. That's that's something.

B

Like like dollar, basically, and where you get as close as possible to like having the symbol, look.

B

Like dollar, as much as it can and having the name look like dollars much as it can, so you.

B

Can it's very intuitive to like remember that? Oh it's, the dollar and it's worth a dollar.

B

Yeah and then, as I've said, I think generally.

B

Like the the focus on sort of, what's behind it, what's powering the thing should move away.

B

From blockchain and towards ai right- and I think that's completely congruent with like.

B

What I was describing them here that, like like in the end it's like and well I mean.

B

Both blockchain and ai are completely like. You cannot possibly have a work without both of them.

B

I think, um but the blockchain narrative is just sort of over in that sense, right and people don't.

B

They don't that it's not! um It's not what's going to create confidence for for normal people, because.

B

Basically, it's kind of it kind of failed in many ways right: the blockchain sort of revolution.

B

um And uh and now what needs to happen is basically, it gets revived through through.

B

Ai and it's already happening right and sort of naturally integrated in many places, and it fits.

B

Together and also just like watching becomes this kind of like stuff being in the front. It.

B

Becomes this back-end thing and this whatever some stuff runs, I'm watching and it's like it's less of.

B

A of a deal than it used to be um and and the ai component is like really the the thing that that's.

B

That's gonna be much more likely to resonate, I think, and of course all of that needs to be better.

B

And analyzed and and uh yeah developed and so on by professionals.

B

Go through I'll, probably add even more stuff.

B

To this list or to add some change things slightly and then I'll be going through the.

B

Whole thing again uh until later point I'll definitely want to make sure to warn people.

B

In advance, so only the people who actually want to to listen to it can can um can participate.

B

uh And then, like I said tomorrow, we'll talk about arranges and monetize and block tower and.

B

uh Like conflict of interest and disclosure and and you know my own involvement in monetize and.

B

Kind of like really make it just talk about all this stuff as much as possible to like.

B

uh Yeah, hopefully, set the standard for like how it should work going forward right and and.

B

um And then, firstly, we get deeper into basically yeah. I guess you could say.

B

Conflict of interest and uh well um governance, security and corruption and misalignment and.

B

Alignment, engineering and checks and balances, and all that good stuff and uh yeah for and.

E

For thursday, what would be really great is if people prepare those have had some sense of.

B

This thought about like ways to attack in game, and so maybe you could be more generally. How.

B

To attack dallas but, like you know, anything, goes kind of stuff right. Social engineering.

B

um If your government, if you're north korea, if you're whatever right the hackers.

B

I don't know super computers, anything right uh yeah if you've got alpha right. If you are.

B

A facilitator, if you're a delegate, if you're, whatever right, if you're a.

B

um Any of yeah, so that's going to be really cool right to to talk about that and maybe.

B

Even find some like holes right that we need to fix, because it's definitely my.

B

um You know my expectation is that will be sort of problems that then need to be.

B

Fixed with, with smaller or larger changes to sort of the governance, security, design.

B

Okay, all right.

B

Thanks everyone for saying, through the one hour and 50 minutes,.

A

Yeah, thank you. Everyone for uh attending. We have a packed week still so we'll look to.

A

See everyone in attendance the next few days and uh pinky promised peyton, and I.

A

Won't try to uh dominate the conversation on thursday, uh so thank you. Everyone for joining.

A

uh Look for the recording on youtube in just a little bit and we'll see everyone tomorrow.