►
From YouTube: Governance and Risk | Ep. 166
Description
Agenda:
Introduction
@GovAlpha-Core-Unit : Hosting, Introduction, Agenda.
@gov-comms-core-unit : Slides
Governance Round-Up
@LongForWisdom Poll + Executive Status
@blimpa - MIPs Update
@Artem_Gordon Forum at a Glance
Selected Updates / Discussions
@luca_pro - Real World SandBox
@hexonaut + @various - D3M Launch + Discussion
Full agenda:
https://forum.makerdao.com/t/agenda-discussion-scientific-governance-and-risk-166-thursday-november-04-17-00-utc/11369
A
A
We've
got
a
bit
of
an
agenda
to
get
through
before
we
do
that
so
I'll,
just
sort
of
go
over.
I
guess
preamble
for
this
meeting
yeah
feel
free
to
we
kind
of
like
engaging
with
people,
so
feel
free
to
ask
questions
or
comments
just
so
reminded
we
are
recording
the
call.
So
please
try
not
to
talk
over
each
other
too
often
we'll
sort
of
stop
questions
and
comments
and
stuff
as
we
go.
A
All
right
brief,
brief
reminder
as
well
before
we
start
it's
daylight
savings
time.
Time
again,
I
believe
it
changed
last
sunday
for
our
european
friends-
and
I
think
next
sunday
or
next
weekend
for
our
usp
folks,
so
yeah
be
aware
that
this
meeting
is
scheduled
in
utc.
So
it
doesn't
mean
that
the
time
shifts
for
everyone
which
is
fun.
A
A
A
We
had
a
open
market
committee
parameter
proposal
that
also
passed
mainly
proposing
a
small
stability
increase
along
with
some
other
utility
changes,
and
then
we
had
a
poll
to
lower
all
the
psm
fees
to
zero
percent.
So
those
three
all
passed,
we
also
have
had
two
new
green
light
falls
got
on
monday.
Mdi
is
md,
irradiance,
llc
and
ohm,
which
is
the
other
style
token.
A
A
C
Okay,
hello,
everyone
pablo
here
with
mape's
update,
so
the
formal
submission
window
closed
yesterday
and
we've
had
nine
submissions.
Let's
take
a
look,
so
we
have
four
coordinate
budgets
and,
namely
a
revised
resume
from
content
production.
I'm
going
to
share
a
link
to
the
changes
that
have
been
introduced.
C
He
budget
for
governance,
communications
he
vouched
for
real
world
finance
and
also
for
real
world
finance
and
in
care
compensation
plan.
We
also
have
a
pre-community
of
proposal
sets.
One
of
them
is
a
resolution
for
decode001,
also
sharing
a
link
here,
one
for
immune
file,
security
and
one
for
side
stream,
option
services
and,
finally,
a
map,
six
template
amendment
with
added
rwa
exclusive
questions
and
the
special
purpose
font
to
create
a
feasibility
study
of
singaporean
debt
security
frameworks.
C
C
Now,
as
for
staff
in
rfc,
we
have
mip
57
and
mips
60,
which
are
old
acquaintances
by
now
and
also
map61,
a
version
of
which
is
currently
being
child.
We
also
have
a
partial,
coordinate,
onboarding
of
a
fixed-rate
solution
by
pairwise
and
more
controversially,
we
have
once
a
proposal
to
remove
the
current
real-world
finances,
facilitators,
selecting
their
goal
in
one
to
onboard,
william
bremmer,
not
sure
I'm
pronouncing
that
correctly
as
its
new
facilitator.
C
Neither
of
these
proposals
have
been
posted
by
the
affected
paris.
I
believe
farting
will
talk
a
bit
about
the
discussion,
that's
taking
place
on
the
forum
around
the
subject,
but
anyway,
let's
not
panic
next
slide,
please.
The
next
formal
submission
window
is
60
days
from
now,
as
there's
no
december
governance
cycle.
A
D
All
right
welcome
everybody
to
the
forum
plans.
This
is
a
weekly
reveal.
What's
happened
on
the
forums
this
time
for
the
week
of
october
28
to
november
4th
today
so
beginning
of
the
week's
top
announcements
dub
alpha
is
ready
to
return
their
unused
die
budget.
They
published
a
post
to
document
the
return
of
over
two
hundred
and
eighteen
thousand
died
to
the
polish
proxy.
These
funds
have
accumulated
through
over
budgeting,
and
the
gov
alpha
team
has
contacted
maperburn
to
aid
with
the
ui
accounting
of
these
actions.
D
D
Yeah,
sorry,
I
was
kind
of
like
confused
yeah,
so
gov
alpha
introduces
their
first
edition
of
their
new
initiative.
The
called
the
delegate
roundup,
the
delegate
roundup,
aims
to
provide
an
overview
of
recognized
delegates
operating
open
maker
dominance.
It
also
serves
as
like
a
one-stop
forum
post,
where
members
and
community
can
of
the
maker
can
monitor
how
recognized
delegates
are
performing.
D
Next
up,
we
have
the
sds
team
who
share
their
first
major
report
on
benchmark
done
by
their
research
project
x-ray.
This
is
a
result
of
research
work,
including
expert
interviews,
team
surveys,
desk
research
and
data
benchmarks,
so
valuable
contributions
from
across
the
industry.
There's
actually
lots
of
interesting
information
from
the
research
so
definitely
check
it
out.
E
D
Next
up,
we
have
real
world
assets
being
one
of
the
largest
potential
opportunities
at
maker
dao.
Their
complexity
can
promote
some
risk
and,
in
response,
roon
published
a
simplified
overview
of
the
arranger
model
as
a
solution
to
mitigate
risk
when
scaling
real-world
assets,
the
post
contains
input
from
some
of
the
real
world
asset.
Experts
in
the
community
and
roon
promotes
further
discussion
and
feedback
feedback
by
the
community
to
help
further
refine.
The
framework,
luca
pro
is
working
on
a
detailed
report
containing
a
formal
and
professional
opinion
on
structuring
highly
scalable
real-world
asset
capital
allocation.
D
From
paper
imperium,
where
recent
publications
have
promoted
a
shift
in
legislative
and
regulatory
focus,
the
publications
are
in
paper,
imperium's
post
and
they
are
narrowing
stable
coins
to
just
those
that
are
convertible
to
fiat
in
response
to
these
regulatory
updates.
Paper
imperium
proposes
that
dye
should
be
best
described
as
something
other
than
the
term
stable
coin.
D
D
Set
from
real
world
finance
presents
an
update
for
p1
drop
and
request
to
increase
their
acquisition
price
to
2.85
million,
which
would
provide
maker
dow
exposure
of
2
million
per
farm.
The
expected
debt
ceiling
is
20
million,
and
the
10
plus
equity
trench
would
be
8.5
million.
In
addition,
in
addition
to
all
that,
the
signal
requests
also
to
add
arkansas
is
a
possible
state
and
next
signal
request.
D
From
james
from
the
real
world,
finance
presents
a
detailed
mip
55
signal
request
to
the
community
for
support
in
the
real
dao
special
purpose
fund.
The
realdow
spf
is
a
unique
approach
to
express
the
willingness
to
experiment
with
other
ways
to
handle
real
real-world
assets.
The
real
world
finance
core
unit
asks
whether
maker
dao
would
signal.
50
000
die
spf,
oh
okay,
so
it's
just
gouging
sentiment
all
right,
so
so
yeah.
D
And
that's
it
for
forum
at
a
glance
for
more
information
check
out
the
forum
at
a
glance
post.
It
contains
more
announcements,
discussion,
three-point
summary
evaluations
and
reports,
as
well
as
ongoing
initiatives
and
help
wanted,
and
if
anybody
has
any
feedback
on
the
forum
at
a
glance
regarding
format,
adding
things
structure,
you
know,
send
me
a
message.
Let
me
know
thank
you
guys.
A
B
F
So
I
I'll
try
to
say
within
five
to
ten
minutes
max
now.
This
topic
is
complicated,
so
we
obviously
remain
available
for
discussion.
We
have
a
thread
I
I
will
I'll.
I
will
send
link
on
the
chat
later
and
we
remain
available
on
all
the
means
of
communication.
We
might
organize
an
extra
call
or
series
of
call
to
discuss
this
in
more
detail,
but
I
wanted
to
give
the
community
an
update
on
the
project.
We've
been
working
on
called
real
world
sandbox.
F
F
F
F
Because
I
I
I
start-
I
don't
know,
what's
going
on
in
my
next
question
worst
day
possible
anyway,
as
as
we
know,
make
real
world
financing
is
a
bit
more
complicated
animal
compared
to
the
word
of
smart
contracts.
So
the
right
implemented,
right
checks
and
balances
is
crucial
to
have
a
sustainable
scalable
model.
F
The
the
first
question
we
were
asking
was
actually
what
we
want
to
be
in
the
real
world
financing
space.
On
the
left-hand
side,
I
put
a
very
simple
stylized
representation
of
how
the
real
world
financing
works.
So
we
have
a
set
of
intermediaries
and
a
set
of
counterparties
that
are
collecting
their
credit
coming
from
borrowers,
they're
packaging
it
and
underwriting
it
and
then
distributing
it
to
investors
and
investors
themselves
are
different
sets.
So
we
have
junior
investors,
senior
investors,
super
senior
investors
etc.
F
The
activity
we
have
done
so
far
in
real
world
financing,
because,
given
its
bootstrapping
face,
has
been
of
different
nature,
more
passive
or
more
active,
more
junior
or
less
junior,
depending
from
the
circumstances.
So
the
first
question
we
wanted
to
ask
ourselves
and
formalize
was
what
type
of
role
maker
should
have
in
this
landing
stack.
F
Should
we
be
an
integrated
lender
where
we
just
deal
directly
with
the
borrowers,
or
should
we
have
an
adopt
a
more
arranger
model
like
roone
mentioned?
Should
we
finance
the
whole
stack
of
credit
or
focus
ourselves
on
the
super
senior
much
safer,
much
safer
lien?
The
second
question
we
weren't
we
were
asking-
or
we
are
asking
ourselves-
is
how
we
do
that
we
do
this.
Should
we
do
everything
internally,
internalizing
all
the
activities
and
the
structuring
and
the
legal
structures
or
leverage
all
the
counter
parties
to
to
do
that
for
us?
F
So
these
were
the
two
key
questions
that
are
obviously
quite
broad
that
we
were
asking
ourselves
and
the
report
is
trying
is
trying
to
answer
at
least
from
an
outside-in
perspective,
so
pillar,
one
that
we've
been
focusing
on
is
what
type
of
credit
we
want
to
underwrite.
As
we
know,
there
are
many
types
of
different
credit,
many
types
of
underlying
credit
levels
of
seniority,
maturity,
etc.
F
What
is,
in
our
view,
maker,
ideal
positioning
and
a
set
of
eligibility
criteria
that
define
what
type
of
credit
we
want
to
get
close
to
and
what
type
of
counterparties
we
want
to
work.
Now
we
have
the
first
part
of
the
report
in
drafting
mode
almost
ready.
We
will
be
very
happy
to
share
this
with
the
community
as
soon
as
possible,
but
the
high
level
message
is
that,
in
our
view,
in
my
personal
view,
makers
should
become
a
super
senior
lender,
meaning
that
we
should
aim
at
dealing
with
the
highest
quality
counterparties
and
underwriting
credit.
F
That
is
not.
That
is
not
focused
on
having
very,
very
high
and
attractive
yield,
but
rather
having
a
stable,
sustainable
and
scalable
scalable
risk
adjusted
yield.
Given
our
our
low
cost
of
capital,
we
don't
need
to
make
10,
but
we
actually
need
to
make
a
very
solid,
very
solid
one
percent
and
then
and
scalable
to
expand
the
footprint.
F
So
how
can
we
draw
a
solid
process
where
we
can
split
the
roles
in
a
healthy
way
and
and
scale
we
where
to
find
us?
We
have
been
discussing
a
debate
in
this
in
calls
privately
or
in
the
forums
in
person
in
public.
We
have
a
forum
thread
that
I
can
post.
I
can
post
a
link
here
on
the
chat,
but
basically
it's
easy
to
find.
You
can
just
search
on
the
forum,
ses
project,
real
world
sandbox,
and
then
you
can
find
my
details,
I'm
on
forum
I'm
on
gmail
and
on
discord.
F
We
want
to
make
this
as
collaborative
as
possible.
After
we
will
release
the
report
that
we
we've
produced.
We
will
most
probably
open
a
consultation
phase
to
make
sure
to
onboard
all
the
comments
coming
from
the
community
and
then
hopefully,
if
there
is
an
agreement
in
the
quorum,
we
might
move
to
propose
to
governance.
Some
implementation
implementation
steps
to
to
make
this
real,
but
I
think
it
is.
It
is
very
complex,
but
it
is
exciting,
and
I
personally
think
this
is
the
right
time
to
to
make
maker's
approach
to
real
world
financing
more
institutional.
F
I
Yeah,
I
have
two
questions.
The
first
one
is
with
us,
because
you
only
mentioned
yourself
in
the
in
the
slide.
It
could
be
interesting
to
see
what
perspective
you're
bringing
to
the
table
and
the
second
one
is.
You
say
you
want
to
make
operations
only
with
the
highest
quality
of
counterparties
and
I
think,
in
the
angel
modern.
I
F
Okay,
so
when
I
talk
when
I
talk
about
us,
I
I
meant
I
mean
two
things.
First
of
all,
I've
been
leading
this
project
myself,
so
I'm
the
the
author
and
the
main
signature
on
this
project,
but
this
is
a
an
scs
backed
project,
so
everything
I
have
we
have
discussed
so
far
has
been
shared
with
the
guys
at
scs,
and
I,
unless
juan
thinks
differently,
I
think
that
what
we
have
been
working
on
represent
also
the
view
in
some
way
of
ses.
F
Obviously
I
have,
I
have
a
direct
expertise,
so
my
my
input
is
the
is
the
main
input
here.
I've
been
discussing
with
a
lot
of
other
parties
within
the
community
that
have
been
involved
within
real
world
financing
in
some
shape
or
form,
but
these
have
been
how
to
say
these
have
been
collaborations
or
sources
of
information
and
views,
and
not
not
authorship,
and
I
I
have
to
say
that
most
of
the
people
are
interested
and
agree
with
the
way
we
can
improve
and
scale
the
process.
F
F
He
ironed
was
so
kind
to
reach
out
in
the
last
weeks
because
he
he
knew
what
we
were
working
on
and
he
wanted
to
get
our
point
of
view
and
share
his
views
on
on
what
he
thought,
what
he
thought
could
be
the
future
on
of
maker
in
real
world
financing,
but
I
haven't,
I
haven't
been,
I
haven't
been
involved
in
drafting
his
his
post
and
he
hasn't
been
involved
in
drafting
our
report
that
we
will
publish.
Obviously,
there
are
similarities,
but
there
will
also
be
differences,
as
you
mentioned
sab.
F
My
view
is
that
the
counter
parties
will
have
to
go
through
a
very
thorough
and
accurate
process
of
onboarding
and
will
have
some
key
requirements
that
they
need
to
comply
with
in
order
to
interact
with
maker.
Obviously,
those
requirements
will
depend
on
the
nature
of
the
credit
that
we
do
and
on
the
nature
of
the
mitigating
credit,
mitigating
factors
that
are
in
place,
but
I
think
this
process
will
have
to
be
as
rigorous
as
possible.
F
Now
we
haven't
shared,
I
I
have
we
haven't
shared
those
criteria
and
we
haven't
started
on
boarding
those
counter
parties,
so
I
think
it's
very
early
to
tell,
but
my
view
is
that
we
need
to.
We
need
to
be
as
as
conservative
as
possible
in
in
dealing
with
the
country
parties,
meaning
in
practice
that
those
counterparties
will
have
to
have
regulatory.
F
Stamping
will
need
to
prove
a
solid
track
record.
We'll
need
to
work
with
the
most
reputable
borrowers
on
the
back
end
and
will
net
will
need
to
provide
best-in-class
credit,
credit
structuring
and
and
credit
risk,
mitigating
factors
now
how
this
would
translate
into
the
reality?
It's
still
yet
to
yet
to
be
seen.
B
H
Because
I
kind
of
had
one
just
in
terms
of
positioning
makers
like
the
super
senior
lender,
I
think
that
makes
a
lot
of
sense,
given
our
cost
of
capital,
but
I
was
curious
if
your
thoughts
on
how
we
attract
the
the
counterparties,
I
guess
from
my
perspective,
it
seems
like
if,
if
I
were
an
institution
looking
for
lending,
you
know
I'd
be
much
safer
off
going
to
a
bank
with
with
the
rates
as
low
as
they
are
right
now.
So
yeah
just
curious.
If
your
thoughts
on
that.
F
Yeah,
so
I'm
I've
been
involved
in
in
providing
liquidity
to
alternative
lenders
for
10
years
I
started
as
a
hedge
fund
manager.
We
were
providing
liquidity,
basically
buying
credit
from
originated
lenders
in
the
us,
and
our
cost
of
capital
was
eight
percent
ten
percent.
This
is
what
we
wanted
to
make
out
of
the
credit
net
of
losses.
F
Then
I,
when
I
when
I
I
started-
I
I
changed
my
job
as
an
investor
and
I
became
a
product
investor
and
I
we
were
we
owned
a
bank
in
the
ecb.
I
was
actually
sitting
on
the
board
as
a
board
observer
of
that
bank
and
we
were
purchasing
credit
from
alternative
lenders
as
a
bank
yields.
Cost
of
liquidity
is
very
low
today,
but
it's
not
zero.
If
you
are
a
bank
because
we
were
underwriting
senior,
credit
originated
by
platforms
of
the
highest
quality
at
four
five
percent.
So
this
was
our
break-even
yield.
F
Four
five
percent:
that
levered
as
a
bank
become
becomes
20,
25
percentage
and
it's
difficult
for
banks
to
provide
this
type
of
landing
at
cheaper
rates.
You
can
achieve
cheaper
rates
if
you
have,
if
you
have
a
struct,
a
securitization
and
discretization
is
very
liquid
and
then
you
can
access
senior
senior
lenders
at
50
basis
points.
One
percent,
but
I
think
maker
is
still
extremely
competitive,
even
against
the
most
senior
lenders,
and
then
it's
just
another
pool
of
capital.
F
So,
as
we
see
sojang,
I
don't
know
the
guys
are
so
jean,
but
I
think
these
guys
are
they
could
they
could
finance
the
senior
their
senior
cover
bond
and
negative
rates?
They
are
still
going
for
maker
because
for
them
is
taxes,
another
pool
of
capital
and
then
suddenly
that
zero
percent
that
very
cheap
cost
of
capital
of
maker
becomes
very
attractive
for
other
types
of
solid
but
higher,
yielding
assets.
So
I
think
there
is
definitely
the
space
for
maker
to
be
an
attractive
pool
of
capital
for
institutional
high
quality
lenders
out
there.
J
Luke
I'd
just
like
to
say
something
here.
Thanks
for
the
question
peyton,
you
know
I've
been
involved
in
actively
bringing
a
number
of
real
world
assets
to
maker
to
date
and
and
what
we're
seeing
now
is
basically
we're
raising
the
bar
right.
The
the
new
acid
or
the
new
originators
that
are
brought
to
maker
are
going
to
be
in
a
whole
different
class
than
than
what
we've
experimented
with
in
the
past
year,
and
I'm
certainly
seeing
that
out
in
the
market.
J
J
I
guess
the
question
I
have
for
you
luca,
and
this
also
goes
to
will-
is
how
will
this
new
ses
sandbox
work
with
the
real
world
as
a
working
group,
a
real
world
finest
finance
core
unit?
I
guess
official
name
when
we're
navigating
and
we're
bringing
collateral
to
to
make,
or
we
just
need
some
clarity
on
who
we
talk
to
and
how
we
bring
it
through
the
process
and
hopefully,
that'll
be
resolved
relatively
soon.
F
F
Now
this
is
my
view
and
I
I
will
need
to
detail
my
view
together
with
the
other
stakeholders
of
the
project
in
the
second
phase.
That
will
be
we're
working
on,
so
the
report
will
be
ready
in
the
next
two
three
weeks,
but
then,
obviously
what
will
happen
next
will
depend
on
the
view
of
the
community
and
what
the
community
decides
to
do.
So
I
think
what
I
think,
the
the
the
the
current
the
current
facilitators
facilitator
or
real
world
financing
team
members
can
can
give
you
an
answer
on
on
a
better
answer
today.
B
B
The
only
one
could
be
different
powers,
checking
each
other,
so
one,
for
example,
sourcing,
the
other
one
checking
the
risk,
et
cetera,
et
cetera.
So
I
yeah
again.
This
is
not
my
my
field
of
expertise,
so
I
don't
want
to
to
go
too
deep,
but
the
idea
of
this
grant
is
to
to
do
this
research
and
to
to
see
how
how
we
can
scale
this
this
part,
that's
so
important.
I
G
I
think
this
is
one
of
the
things
I
will
need
to
to
learn
dealing
with,
which
is
that,
because
everything
is
transparent
and
open,
there's
a
lot
of
communication.
That's
going
out
about
these
kind
of
projects
that
are
very
early
stage
and
are
not
the
official
policy
of
the
dao.
Yet
when
someone
comes
to
the
forum
with
just
a
proposal
and
definitely
when
someone
like
garuna
comes
to
the
forum
with
just
a
proposal,
then
this
will
be
picked
up
by
crypto
media
outlets,
for
example,
and
portrayed.
G
A
A
K
Yeah,
I
can
go
over
it.
So,
as
everybody's
probably
aware
the
d3m
launched
on
tuesday
and
as
expected,
the
debt
ceiling
was
maxed
out
immediately
because
the
boro
radon
ave
is
currently
quite
high.
There's
a
lot
of
demand
to
borrow
stable
coins.
So
yeah
it's
been
going
good
so
far,
so
I
figured.
Maybe
I
would
just
do
you
have
that
slide
david?
I
could
just
like
briefly
run
over
kind
of
a
quick
overview
of
how
this
works.
K
Yeah
no
worries
yeah,
so
this
will
just
be
a
quick
overview,
there's
actually
a
mip
video
I
did
with
stanley
like
back
in
may
or
something
I
recommend
you
watch
that
if
you
want
a
very
detailed
explanation
of
how
this
works
and
what
the
risks
are
involved,
yeah,
that's
a
good
one
yeah,
which
one
I
like
how
you
have
the
meme
up
here
so
yeah.
It
was
a
very
fun
meme
that
was
made
the
other
day
with
the
spraying.
The
hose.
H
A
H
K
K
K
K
You
got
it
david
yeah
there
it
is
okay,
so
I
just,
I
think,
this
sort
of
graphic
kind
of
illustrates
how
the
d3m
works
pretty
well.
So
if
you
look
at
the
the
top
bar
there,
that's
sort
of
an
example
market.
So
let's
say
the
total
market
size
is
90
million.
There
is
80
million,
that's
been
borrowed
in
this
market
and
there's
10
million
that's
available
in
die
actual
die,
so
the
utilization,
if
you
calculate
80,
divided
by
90
million,
you
get
utilization
of
89.
K
This
is
higher
than
the
80
sweet
spot.
So,
as
you
can
see,
the
variable
borrow
rate
shoots
up
to
like
37,
it's
crazy
high.
So
this
is
not
desirable
and
this
kind
of
stuff
happens
all
the
time
in
bull
markets.
So
it's
really
bad
for
the
users.
So
what
the
d3m
does
is
it
will
look
at
this
and
say:
okay,
I
can
mint
some
dye
to
basically
return
utilization
back
to
80,
so
it
does
the
calculation
and
it
sees
okay.
I
can
make
10
million
die
and
set.
K
Then
that
puts
it
into
the
pool
of
available
die.
Then
the
calculation
is
80
million.
Total
borrow
divided
by
100
million,
that's
80
and
the
variable
borrow
rate
is
at
our
target
desired
rate
of
four
percent.
Now,
let's
say
some
random
user
sort
of
repays,
a
loan
of
five
million.
So
this
comes
out
of
the
borrow
amount
and
it
is
die
paid
back
by
this
user,
so
it's
now
actual
die
available
to
be
either
borrowed
again
or
withdrawn,
or
whatever
it's
it's
in
the
available
pool.
K
K
So
this
happens
as
frequently
as
you
want
and
so
like
ignoring
the
debt
ceiling,
which
of
course,
will
cap
the
total
amount
that
can
be
minted
into
the
pool.
This
will
just
keep
the
utilization
at
80,
no
matter
what,
unless,
of
course
it
is
less
than
the
amount
originally
deposited.
So
let's
say
the
interest
rate
ups
drops
pretty
low
and
the
d3m
is
already
like.
Hasn't
really
meant
it
that
much
if
it
reaches
zero,
it
obviously
can't
withdraw
more
than
it's
entitled
to
so
yeah.
K
I
think
that
kind
of
covers
what
the
d3m
does.
It's
kind
of
a
cool
little
module
that
yeah
it
gives
ave
users
a
really
really
good
ux
when
they're
borrowing
against
die.
So
I
think
this
will
help
us
a
lot
competitively
with,
like
say,
usdc
users
who
are
taking
leverage
on
ave
if
they're
doing
this
calculus
they
may
be.
Like.
Oh
hey,
I
have
a
maximum
borrow
rate
here
of
four
percent
on
die.
You
know,
why
would
I
use
usdc
which
has
no
upper
bound
effectively?
B
K
G
K
B
I
saw
in
the
governance
chat
this
morning
like
there
was
some
concern
about.
I
guess
ave's
overall,
like
solvency,
and
I
guess
I'm
curious
what
the
risks
are
for.
D3M
modules
like
like
is
there
sort
of
a
cap
for
our
loss.
Besides
the
debt
ceiling,
like
I'm,
I'm
just
curious
how
it
behaves
if
a
protocol
were
to
go
under
like
if
ave
were
to
do
its
version.
M
What
would
happen
it
knows
pretty
in
detail
about
it
right.
Essentially,
it's
just
about
capping,
capping
the
debt
ceiling
at
some
kind
of
utilization
ratio
right
so
because
of
where
that
kind
of
kink
remember.
Sam
was
kind
of
talking
about
the
kink
right.
Where
there's
a
kind
of
steady
increase
of
of
the
rate
on
ave
and
then
once
you
hit
that
kink
right,
then,
all
of
a
sudden,
the
the
rate
goes
parabolic.
M
So
the
idea
is
that,
because
of
the
positioning
of
that
kink,
you
have
a
certain
amount
of
utilization,
that's
always
available
to
withdraw
and
that
we
want
d3m
to
kind
of
be
either
kind
of
with
within
that
kind
of
a
maxed
at
whatever.
That
utilization
is,
I
think,
pretty
much
even
suggested
that
we
should
have
like
an
extra
buffer
on
on
there
as
well
yeah,
okay,.
M
Down
to
how
much
risk
maker
governance
wants
wants
to
take
right,
because,
if
you're,
if
you're
stuck
in
in
ave
because
of
the
the
utilization
right,
if
you,
if
you
go
too
too
high
on
the
upside
with
this
debt
ceiling
relative
to
where
the
kink
is,
you
can
probably
extract
more
yield
right.
You
can.
L
Yeah,
so
this
is
one
of
the
risks
at
our,
so
this
is
the
liquidity
risk,
but
there's
like
a
few
other
risks.
The
liquidities
that
nick
mentioned
is
kind
of
related
to
you
know
how
high
can
we
go
with
the
debt
ceiling
and,
as
he
explained,
20
would
be
like
the
maximum
limit
limit.
This
would
put
us
at.
I
think
right
now
would
be
like
400
million
debt
ceiling.
L
Probably
we'd
want
a
bit
more
buffer,
so
we
in
the
long
run
you
know
if
market
stays
as
it
is,
we'd
probably
suggest
not
to
go
over
300
million,
but
before
we
do
that
there
are
a
lot
of
other
considerations.
I
wrote
about
a
bit
today
already
so
just
to
prepare
a
community
when
we
start
thinking
of
increasing
from
50
million.
We
need
to
address
this
so
there's
this
liquidity
risk
that
that
we
described
now.
Then
we
have
credit
risk.
L
Essentially
this
means
you
know
how
diet
is
being
borrowed,
so
the
same
diet
that
d3m
supplies
when
it's
being
borrowed.
How
well
is
it
collateralized
and
by
which
assets,
and
essentially
the
credit
risk
is
pretty
low
currently,
and
that's
because
most
of
the
dye
borrowed
is
just
you
know,
from
so-called
recursive
leveraged
farmers,
so
basically
people
are
supplying
diet
and
then
borrowing
it
and
essentially
the
1.5
billion
of
die
borrowed.
L
I
think
85
of
that
should
be
around
1.2
billion.
You
know
this
is
all
just
die,
supplied
and
re-borrowed,
the
other
part,
the
250
million.
This
is
the
die,
that's
you
know
so-called
risky,
but
it's
not
as
risky
really
because
it's
mostly
collateralized
by
eat
and
fred
bitcoin,
so
creditor
is
pretty
low
right
now.
The
thing
is
this
can
like
suddenly
change
and
here's.
Why
so
avid
doesn't
have
a
concept
of
depth
ceiling?
L
This
is
probably
the
biggest
issue
I
have
with
the
you
know
with
just
risk
mitigation
at
our,
but
I
think,
like
one
hour
ago,
they
just
announced
the
other
v3,
so
this
v3
should
be
upgraded
from
v2
and
they're
going
to
implement
depth
ceilings.
So
this
should
be.
You
know
this.
This
should
be
much
better
for
us,
because
otherwise,
we'll
constantly
need
to
monitor,
which
we'll
do
anyway,
but
we'll
really
need
to
monitor
whatever
I
said
they
had
like.
If
it's
a
bad
collateral,
you
know
it
can
pretty
much.
L
You
know,
create
a
big
hole
in
the
system
and
you
know
the
same
way.
We
do
collateral
risk
assessment
at
maker.
We
should
do
it
the
same
way
because
indirectly
we're
pretty
much
facing
the
same
risk
right.
So
this
is
credit
risk.
Then
there's
a
bunch
of
other
risk.
One
is
just
you
know,
oracle
risk.
This
is
also
one
discussion.
Community
needs
to
have.
How
much
do
we
want
to
be
exposed
to?
L
So
you
know
imagine
a
scenario
when
there's
a
exploit
exploit
an
away,
you
know
a
buck
or
whatever
people
start
pulling
money
out,
so
die
supply
would
start,
you
know
draining,
and
this
would
spike
up
rates
and
our
module
would
instead
of
pulling
money
out,
would
basically
start
meeting
more
die-in
right
because
the
rates
when
rates
go
up,
the
module
starts,
wants
to
lower
the
utilization,
because
this
is
how
it
works.
So
it
behaves
totally
in
a
in
a
wrong
way
and
basically,
we
basically
have
only
two
two
risk.
L
So
one
is
we
are
using
the
instant
access
module,
dev
ceiling,
which
actually
lowers
the
increase
of
debt
ceiling.
So
this
is,
you
know,
kind
of
protects
us
before
we
can
shut
down
the
module,
which
is
the
the
second
sort
of
a
safety
procedure.
We
can
take,
but
the
safety
module,
I
think,
even
has
a
cooldown
period.
I
think
sam
knows
more
about
this,
so
yeah
this.
This
is
probably
you
know.
L
K
K
C
So
I
also
wanted
to
maybe
just
have
a
start
thinking
about
something
else.
Just
when
we're
thinking
about
how
high
we
want
to
go
with
the
direct
deposit
module
just
that,
if
it
gets
to
be
too
big,
it
will
compete
with
psm
and
in
terms
of
monetary
policy,
because
it's
targeting
a
rate
and
that's
like
that's
fine
in
small
amounts.
But
in
my
opinion
I
think
the
psm
is
probably
better
suited
to
addressing
our
our
peg.
C
And
so
we
we
don't
want
to
risk
interfering
with
that,
and
I
I
don't
know
at
what
point
that
would
be
an
issue,
but
you
know
targeting
a
rate.
You
know.
If
we
get
the
rate
wrong,
then
we
have
the
potential
to
unwind
our
psm
too
quickly
and
if
it's
empty,
then
we
really
don't
have
as
many
good
tools
as
we
have
right
now.
So
I
just
you
know
when
we
start
talking
about
like
hundreds
of
millions
of
stuff,
you
know
we.
C
We
should
keep
that
in
mind
that
that
that
might
mean
that
we
need
to
take
a
little
more
active
management
of
debt
ceilings
from
a
monetary
risk
perspective,
just
because
we
cannot
target
both
both
rates
and
peg.
At
the
same
time
with
you
know,
when
those
those
two
will
come
into
conflict
at
some
point.
I
C
K
L
A
A
N
I
think
when
it
first
was
proposed,
the
strike
price
was
five
thousand
dollars
from
them
and
understandably
that
pushed
a
lot
of
people
off,
and
you
know
we
sort
of
never
communicated
to
them.
What
what
it
was
that
ended
the
deal
what's
going
on
two
people
on
the
same
screen?
Yes
yeah,
so
we
got
to
close
the
with
three
deal,
so
they
want
to
partner
with
us
like
really
badly.
They
are
not
very
concerned
about
the
strike
price.
If
that's
a
blocker
they
you
know.
N
I
was
talking
to
him
literally
just
before
the
call
he's
like
4x
8x.
We
could
do
whatever
he's
like
we're,
just
mostly
interested
in
partnering,
so
some
of
the
things.
So,
if
that's
a
blocker,
that's
definitely
something
we
can
negotiate.
Some
people
want
to
see
like
metrics
or
you
know,
like
a
monthly
report
or
something
like
that-
I'm
sure
they
would
work
with
us
and
some
like
some
targets
that
they
want.
But
in
general
we
have
a
pretty
thin
market
for
for
maker.
N
If
somebody
wants
to
scale
in
or
scale
out
in
size,
they
have
to
do
it
over
the
course
of
weeks
months.
Sometimes
I
mean
if
we
remember
polychain
way
back
when
a16z.
You
know
someone
recently
who
might
have
been
disgruntled.
You
know
whatever,
for
everyone
has
their
own
reasons
for
coming
in
or
out
of
maker,
but
they
should
be
able
to
do
this
like
rather
seamlessly
it
shouldn't
completely
shouldn't
completely
like
like
if
they
want
a
market
seller
shouldn't
just
nuke
the
market.
N
So
you
know
it's
really
nice.
On
the
flip
side,
when
we
have
the
huge
green
dildos,
it's
very
nice,
but
like
immediately
retracing
that,
so
the
price
action,
I
think,
is
pretty
unhealthy
within
markets
and
it
just
doesn't
look
good
in
the
chart.
It's
not
really
attractive
to
anyone
who
wants
to
invest-
or
you
know,
list
this
on
exchanges.
I
think
you
were
saying
some
others
said
that
maybe
we
could
market
or
make
market
make
ourselves,
unlike
unislop
use,
standard
language.
N
I
don't
know
standard
language
dave,
I'm
sorry,
but
some
people
said
we
can
market
make
on
unit
swap,
I
think,
that's
a
maybe
possible,
but
it's
not
really
necessarily
what
we're
good
at
there's
a
permanent
loss.
A
lot
to
manage
mar
wintermute
is
really
good
at
this.
That's
what
they
do
and
right
now,
one
of
the
things
they
do
is
they
go.
They
want
a
market
maker
so
bad.
N
They
short
on
ave
to
like
grab
maker
from
all
sorts
of
places,
just
to
have
liquidity
to
do
this
trying
so
hard
not
to
write
verbatim
for
stance-
and
it's
really,
you
know,
they're
still
going
to
market
make
us,
but
through
inefficient
means.
I
think
the
the
amount
in
question
right
now
is
10
000
maker.
That
will
let
the
market
make
for
us
pretty.
Well,
it's
a
really
necessary
service
and
I
think
they
wanted.
N
The
last
time
I
spoke
to
them
was
a
twenty
thousand
dollar
strike.
It
looks
like
ten
thousand
they're
open
to
that,
but
worst
case
scenario,
we
sell
them
ten
thousand
maker
at
ten
or
twenty
thousand
dollars.
I
think
that's
not
a
really
that's
a
really
big
tragedy.
In
my
opinion,
it's
a
joke,
of
course,
but
the
other
really
good
thing
is,
you
know
they
are
market
neutral,
but
you
know
today
we're
kind
of
giving
a
liquidity
provider
some
kind
of
incentive
to
maybe
move
the
price
of
maker
up
to
whatever
it
is.
N
One
other
thing:
the
unsecured
loan:
they
have
a
pretty
serious
reputation
to
defend,
I'm
not
terribly
worried
that
they
would
default
on
this.
If
they
do,
I
mean
it
would
be
pretty
bad
to
lose
ten
thousand
maker,
but
I
don't
think
they
will.
I
think
it's
a
risk
worth
taking
and
a
very
necessary
service
that
they
have
oh
and
one
of
the
most
important
things
pretty
much
mentioned
this
on
a
risk
call
earlier
today.
N
We
really
do
need
to
have
what's
the
opposite
of.
We
need
liquid
markets
because,
in
the
event
of
a
solvency
crisis,
where
we
have
to
mint
lots
of
maker
selling
into
thin
books
is
devastating
right.
So
let's
say
we
need
to
make
power
much.
You
know
it'll,
just
nuke
the
price
of
maker.
If
we
have
liquid
books,
we
can
sell
maker,
you
know
it'll
still,
dump
the
price,
but
it'll
be
healthier
for
us.
So
that's
something
I
wanted
to
say.
N
E
E
I
think
I
I
talked
about
this
the
other
day
with
a
axi
and
the
running
network
which
was
launched
today
and
they
didn't
include
die,
which
is
terrible
because
we
have
like
a
long
partner
partnership
with
them,
but
it's
a
liquidity
problem
right
now
and
with
mkr.
Well,
I
think
it's
a
problem
for
the
protocol
because
of
what
we
just
mentioned.
It's
a
high
risk
to
have
just
individuals
managing
mkr
liquidity.
E
I
think
here
we
could
try
the
same
instead
of
like
creating
a
foundation
and
having
a
an
uncollateralized
loan
through
that
foundation,
I
think
we
can
start
exploring.
I
I
think
we
interviewed
guys
they
say
they
are
doing
this
with
other
dows
and
for
them
is
not
a
problem
to
like
do
it
with
us,
just
like
from
a
defy
provider
to
a
dao
and
have
a
service
in
that
way.
So
that's
something
that
is
work
to
explore.
E
This
will
be
the
first
time
we
do
something
like
this,
because
we
have
never
gave
up
mkr
loan.
So
I
think
next
step
will
be
that
like
to
talk
with
footwear,
governance
and
maybe
ses
if
they
want
to
think
about
how
we
can
structure
this
mip
to
help
a
winter
need
to
to
provide
a
service
to
the
dow.
I
I
don't
know
if,
if
that
should
be
a
core
unit,
I
I
have
no
idea.
I
guess
we
have
to
guide
them
and
how
we
want
to
structure
this
this
this
this
service.
N
E
It
it's
a
service
because
they
are
providing
when
you're
market
maker
you
and
you're
a
neutral
market
maker.
You
are
providing
the
other
side
of
of
the
market.
So,
if
you
are,
I
mean
they
will.
Of
course
they
will
get
them
mkr,
but
they
will
also
be
like
adding
usdc
e
or
usd
euros
the
other
side
of
the
pair.
So
no
it
doesn't
make
sense
to
ask
for
revenue.
M
Yeah
and-
and
the
other
thing
here
is
right-
that
we
need
liquidity,
not
just
on
decentralized
exchanges
but
on
centralized
exchanges
right.
So
the
dow
could,
you
know,
put
some
in
you
know,
swap
v2
or
v3
right,
but
just
because
you
have
some
on
chain
liquidity,
it
doesn't
actually
cover
all
the
bases
right.
So
you
look
at
something
like
spell
or
magical
internet
money
right
there.
A
lot
of
their
collateral
portfolio
relies
on
curve
liquidity
for
the
mem
token
right
and
even
having
you
know
some
ridiculous
amount
of
liquidity
on
curve.
M
E
E
We
need
market
makers,
helping
us
not
just
with
diet,
but
with
maker
like
actually
die,
is
like
super
urgent
for
us
right
now,
because,
with
the
with
all
these
new
side
chains,
layer,
two
and
and
all
of
that
we
are
having
a
problem
of
the
distribution
of
dye
liquidity
on
those
chains.
So
I
don't
have
a
solution
for
that,
and
and
and
I'm
seeing
the
problems,
so
I
think
it
could
be
winter
meal
a
good
solution.
If
not,
please,
let
me
think
on
how
what
else
we
can
do
for
this.