►
From YouTube: Maturity Model for Microsoft 365 - January 2023
Description
Recorded:
• January 17, 2023
Topic:
Road mapping your 2023 MM4M365 Journey
Agenda:
• Practitioner & Maturity Model Overview
• Artifacts and Updates
• Purpose
• How to get more involved
• Shout-out & Picture Time (Together Mode!)
Hosts:
• Marc Anderson, Sympraxis Consulting | @sympmarc
• Emily Mancini, Sympraxis Consulting | @eemancini
• Simon Doy, iThink 365 | @simondoy
• Simon Hudson, Novia Works | @simonjhudson
• Sharon Weaver, Smarter Consulting | @sharoneweaver
Resources:
• Maturity Model for Microsoft 365 - https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/community/microsoft365-maturity-model--intro
• Interested on joining these calls - Download the invite at https://aka.ms/mm4m365/invite
A
Welcome
to
January
2023.
I've,
got
a
lovely
holiday
and
break
and
we're
able
to
switch
off
over
the
holiday
periods,
so
welcome
back
and
thanks
for
joining
us
this
morning
or
this
afternoon
or
this
evening,
depending
on
the
time
scales.
So
the
session
for
today
is
we're
looking
at
how
we
can
help
you
yeah,
get
your
maturity
model
for
Microsoft
35,
Journey
up
and
running
talk
about
what
some
of
the
things
we're
doing
and
and
get
some
feedback
into
that.
A
So
we've
got.
You
know,
we've
got
these
various
tools
with
around
running
a
Microsoft
365
Workshop
we've
got
our
practitioner
meeting
recordings,
but
the
purpose
of
the
maturity
model
is
to
help
organizations
kind
of
navigate
their
way
through
getting
more
value
out
of
the
Microsoft
365
platform.
The
maturity
model
itself
is
is
technology,
technology,
agnostic,
and
you
know
you
could
apply
it
to
other
lesser
Technologies,
if
you
so
wish.
A
But
the
idea
is
it's
to
allow
organizations
to
understand
where
they
should
focus
where
the
benefits
they
would
get
from.
Focusing
on
core
competencies,
which
you
know,
every
business
needs
to
be
able
to
do
to
various
degrees
of
of
Competency,
so
being
able
to
communicate
being
able
to
collaborate
being
able
to
have
somewhere
to
to
store
your
content
and
manage
that
content.
A
So
we've
got
those
there's
a
10,
now
10
competencies
in
there
and
there's
more
coming
along
the
area
of
focus,
especially
with
all
the
exciting
things
going
with.
Microsoft
Viva
is
around
employee
experience,
so
we're
starting
to
talk
sort
of
think
about
that
more
and
we
would
definitely
love
people's
input
on
that.
So
when
we
get
to
to
chatting
later
on,
you
know
it'd
be
great
to
kind
of
hear
your
thoughts
on
that
as
well.
But
let's
move
to
the
next
slide,
so
the
maturity
model.
A
A
So
you
know,
maybe,
when
you
first
set
up
Microsoft
365
you'll
have
a
initial
level
and
it's
yeah,
it's
uncontrolled,
it's
chaotic,
then,
as
we're
kind
of
looking
to
to
improve
things,
get
a
bit
better
and
move
into
a
level
200
manage
where
things
are
becoming
a
bit
more
routine.
We've
got
a
bit
more
process
around
how
we
achieve
things,
but
it's
not
rolled
out
across
the
organization
and
there's
still
firefighting
going
on
level.
300
is
kind
of
what
we
see
is
our
default
level.
A
This
is
this,
is
you
know
a
a
great
place
to
be?
You
know,
we've
defined
our
policies
or
processes,
and
you
know
we,
you
know
things
are
a
bit
more
controlled
and
then
they're
stable
across
the
organization
and
then
from
Level
300.
We
move
to
level
400
where
we
have
this
predictable
stage,
where
really?
A
B
C
E
A
A
All
right,
let's
get
back
to
the
presentation.
Thank
you
very
much
right.
So
next
next
step,
so
we
you
know
we'd
like
you
to
get
involved
and
contribute
in
2023.
Please
use
you'll
raise
your
hand.
So
if
you
want
to
say
something
but
clap
applauds,
laugh
whatever
you'd
like
to
do
and
please
see
our
use,
your
camera
show
your
camera.
Please
don't
be
shy
and
come
off
mute
to
share
your
thoughts
so.
F
One
of
the
yeah
one
of
the
pieces
we
got
of
feedback
from
last
year
was
we
present
this
slide
very
often,
and
we
talk
about
getting
involved
and
you
can
see
across
the
bottom.
We
have
our
four
boxes
where
we
invite
people
to
present
a
case.
Study
contribute
on
GitHub,
provide
feedback
or
socialize
content,
but
some
of
this
Green
Field
can
actually
be
a
little
bit
intimidating
and
sometimes
people
do
not
know
exactly
where
to
get
involved.
So
there
was
a
request
to
have
maybe
more
specific
Gap
areas,
so
people
can
opt
in
now.
F
What
we're
about
to
walk
through
next
is
not
meant
to
be
a
limitation
or
a
you
know,
barrier
to
contributing
other
additional
new
content.
This
is
just
some
of
what
we're
thinking
that
we're
going
to
focus
on
this
year
wanted
to
highlight
to
all
of
you
as
well.
So
it
is
a
road
map
for
our
maturity
model.
So
if
you're
up
to
the
next
slide,
Simon
we're
gonna
first
start
talking
about
present
a
case
study,
so
that
is
in
this
meeting
itself.
We
do
meet
once
monthly.
F
We
have
a
couple
of
sessions
that
we
cancel
in
the
summer
and
the
winter
for
break
time,
but
you
can
see
here.
What
we
have
outlined
so
far
is
what
we
are
thinking
about
talking
about
and
covering
for
the
next
year
so
next
month,
for
example,
we
want
to
have
a
discussion
based
session,
focusing
on
what
is
the
difference
between
employee
experience
and
what
we
have
in
one
of
our
competencies
right
now
for
staff
and
training.
F
Hopefully,
this
discussion
will
help
generate
a
lot
of
content
for
us
to
then
build
some
competencies
or
practical
scenarios
around
Viva,
and
then
we
will
be
presenting
And
discussing
that
content
in
May.
So
if
you
want
to
be
involved
in
that
part
of
the
conversation
highly
recommend
joining
in
February
join
the
conversation,
then,
maybe
even
sign
up
to
be
part
of
the
articles.
F
Now
across
this
content
schedule
as
well
you'll
see,
we
are
also
calling
out
where
we
have
our
featured
speakers.
We
love
having
people
outside
of
the
core
team,
come
to
these
meetings
and
participate.
So,
if
you're
interested
in
any
of
these
topics,
please
don't
hesitate
to
let
us
know
and
we
would
love
to
have
you
join
us.
So,
for
example,
you
can
see
we're
going
to
be
talking
a
little
bit
about
Loop
in
one
of
the
coming
months
and
then
we're
going
to
have
Daryl
Webster
as
our
guest.
F
So
for
anyone
interested
in
joining
either
to
present
a
topic
you'll
see,
we
do
have
a
couple
of
months
open.
We
have
March
and
November
open,
we
don't
have
topics
yet.
So
if
you
have
a
request
for
a
topic
proposal
for
a
topic
or
want
to
be
involved,
in
speaking,
don't
hesitate
to
reach
out
to
us
now
taking
a
peek
at
the
next
slide.
Another
way
that
you
can
get
involved,
sorry
is
to
contribute
on
GitHub.
So
we
have
a
couple
of
different
ways:
I,
don't
see
that
reflected
yet.
F
Okay,
so
one
of
the
first
things
that
we're
going
to
be
doing
is
reviewing
and
refining
the
Articles,
so
you
can
see
we
have
a
couple
framed
out
there
in
Orange.
Those
are
the
ones
that
are
very
specifically
tied
to
upcoming
maturity
model
practitioner
sessions,
so
these
are
guaranteed
in
scope
that
this
team
is
going
to
be
reviewing
and
focusing
on
this
year.
F
F
Now,
looking
at
our
next
slide
for
contribute
on
GitHub
whoops,
I
guess
I
spoke
over.
It
just
wanted
to
call
out
that,
of
course,
you
can
review
any
article
at
any
point
in
time,
so
continuing
on
now
to
providing
feedback,
insights
tools
and
artifacts.
This
does
seem
pretty
vague.
Of
course,
that
is
in
reference
to
all
of
those
articles
that
we
just
talked
about,
but
we
have
a
couple
of
different
ways
that
you
can
get
involved
as
well.
We
have
the
maturity
model
self-assessment.
B
F
So
no
worries
so
for
socialized
content.
We
just
want
to
call
out
that
there's
a
couple
of
different
reasons
that
we
ask
for
this:
they
we
all
have
different
networks,
so
the
people
that
I
am
working
with
are
inherently
going
to
be
different
than
the
network
of
who
you
are
working
with.
So
if
this
is
something
that
you
find
useful,
you
socializing
will
reach
a
different
audience
than
who
I'm
able
to
reach.
So
us
socializing.
This
model,
of
course,
then
also
brings
other
community
members
who
may
be
interested
in
contributing
to
it
as
well.
F
F
All
of
that
said,
thank
you
again
for
everyone
who
comes
Monthly.
Our
next
session
is
going
to
be
February
21st,
again
more
discussion
based
around
employee
experience
and
staff
versus
training,
and
with
that
I
will
close
out
on
our
highlight
of
ways
to
contribute
again,
don't
hesitate
to
reach
out
to
us
in
the
chat
here,
I'll
catch
up
on
anything
I
missed.
Of
course
you
can
reach
out
to
us
on
Twitter
and
as
well
in
our
GitHub
repo.
Any
of
those
areas
will
grab
you
and
bring
you
into
the
maturity
model.
Family.
C
Right
I
think
I'm
up
next,
so
what
we
haven't
really
done
because
I'm
recognizing
there's
quite
a
few
new
faces
attending
this
year
being
a
new
year
and
everything
I
think.
Maybe
it's
worth
quickly.
Just
introducing
the
core
team.
I
know
it's
not
on
the
the
slide
deck
but
I
think
it's
probably
valid
but
Emily.
Why
did
it
since
you
were
just
talking?
Why
don't
you
just
go
ahead
and
introduce
yourself?
So
just
do
a
quick,
a
quick
run
around
the
team.
C
B
Go
ahead:
hi,
I'm,
Mark,
Anderson
and
I'm
also
part
of
some
Praxis
Consulting,
along
with
Emily
and
I've,
been
Consulting
on
this
platform
for
longer
than
some
of
you
have
been
alive,
I
think
it's
I,
actually
love
everything
about
this
community
and
this
platform.
So
you
know,
working
on
this
maturity
model
is,
is
actually
a
great
joy,
it's
a
great
team
and
hopefully
we're
providing
some
stuff.
That
is
valuable
to
all
of
you.
Folks.
C
C
German
is
definitely
a
target
language.
You
know
getting
involved
in
helping
us
write
some
of
the
competencies
or
the
other
documentation
that
we're
working
on.
Please
let
us
know
yeah
we're
very
accepting
team
and
we
love
to
bring
people
back
into
it
into
helping
us
with
this
stuff,
because
we
don't
know
it
all
right.
In
Everest
section,
you
saw
briefly
the
roadmap
for
what
we
want
to
try
and
do
over
the
course
of
2023
in
terms
of
the
maturity
model,
development
and
the
practitioner
sessions.
C
But
what
we'd
like
to
do
for
the
rest
of
today's
session
is
think
about
your
roadmap,
not
ours,
and
your
roadmap
is
really
about.
How
do
you
take
all
of
these
artifacts
in
this
increasingly
heavy
set
of
tools
that
the
maturity
model
provides
and
in
a
programmatic
or
at
least
thoughtful
way
introduce
those
into
your
organization?
So
that's
what
I'm
going
to
try
and
do
and
if
I've
done
this
right,
I've
taken
on
sharing-
and
you
should
now
see
the
road
mapping
your
M365
Journey
for
2023..
C
Thank
you
for
that
always
good
to
get
feedback,
and
this
is
why
we
like
video
right
so
I'm,
going
to
spend
a
little
bit
of
time.
Talking
this
through
one
of
the
things
that
we
realized
towards
the
end
of
last
year
was
that
we've
done
a
lot
of
stuff
and
it's
easy
for
us
we're
deeply
embedded
in
it,
and
we
can
talk
different
competencies
and
and
different
levels
and
different.
C
All
that
kind
of
stuff
we
can
talk
it
with
a
certain
amount
of
confidence,
but
there's
a
lot
of
it
and
if
you
guys
want
to
go
and
take
that
into
your
organization
or,
if
you're
a
consultant
and
want
to
take
it
into
another
organization.
There's
this
question
about:
how
do
you
start
that
process
and
is
there
an
easy
way
of
guiding
yourself
in?
Do
you
just
grab
our
other
competencies
and
go
as
far
as
you
can
with
that?
C
Or
do
you
try
and
do
a
sort
of
broad-based
approach,
so
what
we've
done
is
had
a
crack
at
providing
a
straw.
Man,
that's
an
English
phrase:
I,
don't
know
if
it
translates
outside
of
England,
but
anyway,
a
sort
of
a
prototype
or
a
template
for
how
you
might
try
and
take
a
first
step
across
a
broad
base.
C
C
Now
we've
got
some
fancy
radar
graphs,
I'm
going
to
show
you.
Those
are
radar,
plots
I'm
going
to
show
you
those
in
a
bit
more
detail
in
due
course.
But
essentially,
we've
got
each
of
the
different
competences
that
currently
make
up
the
maturity
model,
and
our
suggestion
is
you
need
to
think
about.
Where
do
you
need
to
be
at
the
end
of
phase
one
of
this
rollout
of
the
competency
across
the
organization
for
each
of
those
competencies
and
some
of
them?
This
is
the
warning.
C
Let's
get
some
things
good
and
leave
some
stuff
where
it
is
no
decide
on
the
goals,
and
maybe
some
stretch
goals
if
you
could
really
hit
it
where
you
get
to
in
this
first
phase
and
create
a
plan
because
you
know
without
a
plan.
How
do
you
know
if
you're
on
plan
or
not
all
right,
I
wonder
if
this
works
that
does
not
I'll
have
to
revert
to
using
the
mouse?
C
So
in
pragmatic
terms,
that
means
thinking
about
which
areas
of
your
business,
such
as
collaboration,
content
management,
business
process,
infrastructure,
governance,
risking
compliance
and
there's
many
of
these
things
as
you'll
know.
If
you've
looked
at
the
the
competency
models,
which
of
these
are
going
to
be
the
most
important
to
you,
where
are
you
going
to
put
your
effort
and
then
spend
some
time
reading
through
the
ones
you're
going
to
go
with
first
and
I'm
just
going
to
say
it
again,
you
you
probably
can't
do
them
all
at
once.
C
Don't
care
how
big
of
sophisticated
and
clever
your
organization
is.
If
you've
got
more
than
a
handful
you're
trying
to
do
it
once
you've
got
too
many,
so
pick
a
small
handful,
maybe
a
pinch
and
then
make
sure
you
drive
into
some
of
those
competences
and
decide
what
level
you're
already
at
now
there's
a
couple
of
ways
you
can
do
that
in
a
previous
session
we've
talked
about
a
workshopping
tool.
C
There
is
a
link
to
that
within
the
within
the
Microsoft
learn
environment
when
we
can
share
it
again,
there's
a
workshopping
tool
and
some
stuff
to
help.
You
run
your
own
organizational
workshops
to
to
eat
this
stuff
out,
but
there
are
lighter
ways
of
doing
it.
It
might
be
enough
that
you
just
sit
down
and
you
read
a
competency
and
you
start
at
the
top
level
500
and
you
go
we're
nowhere
near
that
level.
400
we're
nowhere
near
that
level.
C
300
a
couple
of
parts
of
the
organization
are
doing
some
of
that
quite
well
level.
200,
oh
most
of
the
organization,
is
kind
of
okay
at
that,
and
when
you
find
that
level
where
you
go
yeah,
we
think
that
we're
doing
this
much
pretty
much
well
across
the
organization,
but
we're
not
at
that
level.
Above,
that's
where
you
stop
and
that's
the
Baseline
for
that
particular
competency,
and
you
do
that
across
a
handful
of
competences.
You
want
to
look
at
and
that's
going
to
be
your
starting
point
for
your
plan.
C
B
B
So
if
you,
if
you
read
down
the
the
from
level
100
to
200
to
300-
and
you
start
reading
things
where
you're
just
you
know,
I,
don't
think
we
do
this
very
well,
then
you're
level,
200
and
then
the
tricky
part
is.
How
do
you
explain
that
up
the
chain?
You
know,
how
do
you
convince
you
know
your
EVP
or
your
CEO
or
whoever
that
you're?
Actually,
at
that
level,
you
may
have
to
ask
them
to
do
the
same
thing.
B
C
Absolutely
and
I
go
on
about
this
particular
aspect.
A
lot
you
may
have
some
parts
of
the
organization
who
are
absolutely
out
of
some
of
this
stuff,
but
if
the
overall
organization
isn't
you've
still
got
some
work
to
do
it's
no
good
having
fantastic
legal
department
if
your
operations
is
suckling
or
or
whatever
that
needs
to
be,
and
it's
okay
for
an
organization.
In
fact,
an
organization
should
not
be
homogeneous,
you're
going
to
have
pockets
of
excellent
and
pockets
of
not
so
good
and
different
competencies
are
going
to
be
differently
important.
C
C
And
so
I
didn't
realize
we
had
the
foundation
Emily,
you
did
a
great
job
there.
I
should
have
known
so
there
we
go,
but
then
you
start
to
think
about
what
that
maturity
is
going
to
look
like
over
time.
So
the
trick
is,
do
not
just
fix
the
organization,
because
that's
never
going
to
happen.
The
trick
is
to
have
a
plan
where
we
go
from
here
to
the
next
step
and
from
The
Next
Step
to
the
next
base.
C
If
you're
playing
one
of
those
strange
American
games-
and
you
know
just
keep
getting
better
and
bear
in
mind-
the
organization
and
your
environment
will
keep
changing,
so
things
will
keep.
It
will
fall
back
or
suddenly
leap
ahead
and
you
need
to
accommodate
that
and
if
you're
really
into
it,
you
can
maybe
do
some
kind
of
Gap
analysis
and
figure
out.
You
know
we're
here.
We
really
need
to
be
right
up
here.
C
E
On
your
last
slide,
so
you
know
I
think
one
of
the
things
in
this
particular
section,
the
the
biggest
thing
I
hear
from
people
is.
This
is
all
fantastic
and
great,
but
my
organization
doesn't
want
to
invest
in
you
know
doing
these
things,
to
make
it
better
or
to
look
at
these
assessments,
or
things
like
that
and
I
think
the
key
is.
There
was
one
on
the
the
side
right
previous
to
this.
That
said,
it
should
align
with
your
organizational
goals.
E
E
B
C
C
C
This
would
be
we're
just
starting
out
on
this
journey
and
we
need
to
try
and
get
to
a
level
of
adequacy
and
in
order
to
be
adequate,
we
need
to
have
our
content
management
and
maybe
a
bit
of
collaboration
working
moderately
well.
So
we've
called
this
content
adequacy
and
we'd
like
to
get
the
organization
to
be
adequate
with
the
way
it
manages
content,
and
for
that
we're
just
going
to
try
and
get
management
content
in
the
maturity
model
up
to
level
300
and
we'll
be
content.
C
C
Your
plan
maybe
get
some
backups,
and
you
know
some
air
cover,
as
they
say
from
your
Senior
Management
to
make
it
happen.
That's
level,
100
level,
200,
then
sorry,
phase,
two!
Okay,
it's
really
confusing
all
these
different
levels,
phase
two
would
be
okay.
We
now
want
to
try
and
get
to
a
reasonable
level
of
productivity,
what
we've
called
productivity
adequacy
and
so
we're
okay,
our
management
of
content's
working
okay,
but
our
collaboration
needs
to
improve.
We
need
to
get
a
bit
better
communication.
C
We
need
to
start
making
search
work
because
we
can't
find
the
stuff
that
we
need
to
be
productive,
around,
etc,
etc,
and
so
it
then
said
at
this
level
would
work
on
that
and
I'm
not
going
to
go
through
all
the
numbers,
but
you
see
the
idea
that,
for
each
phase
of
work
to
introduce
a
model,
you
lay
out
your
numbers.
You
work
them
when
you're
more
or
less
there.
You
look
at
the
next
level
up
and
start
working
towards
that.
C
So
a
couple
of
things
about
that,
whatever
you
choose
as
those
numbers,
first
of
all,
don't
be
ridiculously
ambitious
because
I'll
just
break
you
B,
pragmatic
and
sensible,
but
as
Sharon
was
saying,
make
sure
they
tie
into
your
strategic
objectives
or
your
organizational
objectives,
partly
because
a
that's
how
you're
going
to
drag
the
management
to
support
you
and
B,
because
that's
kind
of
what
you
should
be
doing.
It's
no
good
saying
we're
going
to
become
absolutely
fantastic
at
customization
and
development.
C
If
customization
development
is
not
part
of
your
strategic
plan
for
the
year,
you
know,
maybe
the
organization
is
really
worrying
about
its
organizational
culture
and
that's
where
you
should
be
pushing
the
numbers
up
a
bit
higher
than
our
default
strawman
model
here,
there's
something
else
we
want
to
talk
to
you
about
as
well.
If
you're,
in
a
a
compliance
driven
organization,
so
I
mentioned
I,
have
a
medical
device
company,
a
medical
technology
company,
you
know
we're
exposed
to
a
whole
bunch
of
compliance,
risk
and
governance
stuff.
C
You
need
to
make
sure,
maybe
in
that
kind
of
organization
your
GRC
governance
risk
and
compliance
score
is
better
than
just
barely
adequate,
so
yeah
so
tweak
this
according
to
your
your
rules,
your
business,
your
objectives
and
your
industry,
but
this
gives
you
a
bit
of
a
a
model
to
go
at
about
how
we
think
a
stepwise
approach
to
introducing
the
various
competences
might
look
and
again,
this
last
bullet
point.
You
know
the
trick
here
is
to
go
from
sufficient,
then
up
to
good,
then
to
Great.
C
C
C
A
B
Yeah
so,
and-
and
this
is
along
the
lines
of
you-
know
the:
where
do
we
start?
You
know
what
what
makes
sense
for
our
organization,
and
you
know,
we've
we've
been
putting
caveats
around
everything
we're
talking
about
today,
because
it
varies
based
on
your
organization,
your
size,
your
competency
level,
all
that
stuff.
B
Given
all
of
that,
you
know,
if
you
have
a
mission
statement
that
said
or
or
a
strategy
document
that
everyone's
aware
of-
and
you
know
that
mission
statement
says
we're
going
to
be
the
low-cost
provider
for
something,
and
probably
infrastructure,
is
really
really
important
right.
You
need
to
have
transactions
just
sailing
through
things.
You
need
to
make
sure
you
know
we
you,
you
you're
you're,
you're
you're,
a
foundational
layer
is
the
best
it
can
be,
and
these
are
a
really
illustrative
but
they're
a
way
for
you
to
start
thinking
about.
B
B
If,
if
your
mission
statement
says
something
about
operational,
Elegance,
Excellence
or
Elegance,
if
you
can
all
dress
up
nicely,
business
process
is
probably
something
that
you
should
think
about
putting
in
there
first
lots
of
times
people
come
in
with
a
model
like
this
thinking
that
you
know
it
because
they
need
to
solve
an
immediate
problem.
So
maybe
it's
not
in
the
mission
statement,
but
something
is
on
fire
right.
So
you
know:
do
you
all
of
a
sudden
realize
that
you're
you're
going
to
be
audited
for
something?
B
And
you
don't
know
if
you're
compliant
with
your
document
management,
then
content,
a
management
of
content
is
going
to
be
first
on
your
list,
so
try
again
always
try
to
find
those
hooks
like
I
said
before.
Where
can
we
hook
into
something
that
already
has
been
expressed
as
a
as
an
imperative
for
our
organization
by
the
people
who
run
it,
because
you
want
their
ownership
into
your
attempts
to
to
improve
your
competencies?
B
If
you
just
sort
of
come
at
it
from
the
from
left
field-
and
it's
not
connected
to
anything
else-
that's
going
on,
then
you've
got
a
much
higher
a
much
steeper
Hill
to
climb
to
try
to
convince
people
that
it
should
be
part
of
their
daily
effort.
It
should
be
part
of
maybe
a
budget
that
you
need
to
get
sign
off
on
or
if
you,
if
you
do
find
these
hooks,
you
may
be
able
to
sort
of
the
tail
tailgate
onto
existing
efforts
that
are
already
going
on
that
are
already
being
paid
for.
C
A
A
We
are
trying
to
be
quite
opinionated,
because
in
that
way
we
get
something
you
know
a
Line
in
the
Sand,
don't
we
which
we
can
kind
of
work
on,
and
people
can
then
argue
with
us
about
whether
this
is
right
or
not.
But
so,
if
you
don't
really
know
where
to
start,
this
is
of
a
safe
approach.
You
know
we
when
we
have
a
level
of
infrastructure
in
place,
so
we
need
to
have
you
know
our
our
identity
and
those
areas
sorted
out.
A
There
needs
to
be
a
base
level
of
governance,
so
you
know
having
two-factor
authentication
MFA,
having
controls
around
how
SharePoint
sites
and
teams
are
created,
looking
at
what
is
it
that
you
have
to
do
as
well?
You
know
to
meet
the
league
or
the
regulatory
requirements
of
your
organization
in
the
country
that
you
are
within
or
countries.
A
The
third
part
is
you
know
if
you
don't
invest
in
Staffing
and
training,
these
tools
are
just
not
going
to
get
used.
People
are
going
to
go
off
and
do
their
own
thing,
so
you
need
to
have
investment
in
there
and
then
and
there's
a
bonus
attention.
Is
you
know?
Where
do
we
start
with
collaboration,
getting
people
to
use
the
tools
so
that
they've
got
they've
got
you
know
again?
This
comes
into
management
of
content
as
well.
You
know
they've
got
places
where
they
can
collaborate,
so
we've
got
Microsoft
teams
areas.
A
You've
you've
got
workspaces
where
these
people
can
engage
and
work
together.
You've
got
you
know,
areas
where
projects
can
run,
but
if
you
don't
have
and
then
the
final
thing
is,
if
you
don't
have
your
content
in
in
the
platform,
then
you
know
you
really
you're
really
missing
out
on
the
value
you
you
can't
sort
of
achieve
what
organizations
I
think
should
be
able
to
achieve,
which
is
you
know
what
we
think
should
be
able
to
achieve
around
being
able
to
to
kind
of
work
anytime
anywhere.
A
You
know
not
having
to
work
in
an
office
being
having
that
flexibility
that
we've
so
we've
got
grown
accustomed
to
since
the
pandemic.
Of
course,
there's
caveats
and-
and
these
can
vary
by
you-
know,
industry,
regulation
and
their
size
and
the
culture,
but
that's
kind
of
where
we
sort
of
see
that
that
base
Foundation
level
that
content
adequacy
starting
they
really
have
anything
to
to
add
into
this.
A
All
right,
the
next
phase
there
and-
and
you
know
so
following
on
from
what
Simon's
talking
about
the
second
phase
is-
is
a
productivity.
So
you
know
how
do
we
establish
good
communication
and
that's
two-way
communication?
You
know
people
being
Senior
Management
being
able
to
talk
about
the
priorities
of
the
organization.
The
department,
heads
and
team
leads
being
able
to
talk
about
the
priorities
so
that
you
know
that
people
are
aligned
to
those
those
those
key
key
priorities.
How
you
know
how
do
we
communicate
that?
A
So
you
know
you
know,
there's
various
aspects
of
Microsoft
365
which
enable
that
and
then
also
then,
the
other
side
of
the
communication
is
being
able
to
for
for
the
people
in
the
business
to
be
able
to
feed
back
to
their
line
managers
to
the
Senior
Management.
To
be
able
to
kind
of
create
that
two-way
communication,
so
that
they
can
tell
you
know,
tell
people
what
what's
going
well,
what's
not
going
well
and
and
suggest
how
the
business
can
improve.
A
Also,
then,
we've
got
the
set
in
the
second
phase.
We
talk
about
expanding
that
governance,
that
risks
and
compliance
competency,
so
introducing
more
areas
around
now.
We've
got
this
content
in
how
we
can
protect
those
assets
and
and
make
sure
that
we
are
taking
that
Journey
further
on
and
then
we've
got
search
in
here
as
well.
A
B
Mean
I
think
I
think
our
overall
goal,
with
with
this
week's
session,
was
to
give
people
ideas
about
you
know:
where
do
they
go
next,
so
I
I
asked
in
chat
but
I'd
be
interested
in
you
know.
What
does
everyone
think?
Does
this
give
you
ideas
about
how
to
communicate
with
your
organization?
Does
it
give
you
ideas
about
what
to
do
next?
What
questions
does
it?
Does
it
cause.
B
A
So
yeah
I
mean
from
from
my
perspective,
absolutely
having
you
know,
start
having
that
information
architecture
to
decide.
You
know
which
department
areas
we're
going
to
create
for
sharing
information
resources
across
the
organization
where
which
team,
Microsoft
teams
areas
are
we
going
to
create
for
for
those
departments
and
then
maybe
those
internal
teams
so
that
they've
got
collaboration,
areas
I,
think
that's
a
you
know.
A
B
I
always
I
always
think
it's
it's
interesting.
How
we
are
any
one
of
us
sees
the
whole
marketplace
where
very
differently,
based
on
what
we
do
and
sort
of
who
comes
to
us
for
advice
right.
So
I
think
you
know
like
like
Simon
just
said:
I,
don't
know
what
some
of
those
things
you
just
listed
off
actually
are,
but
if
people
are
coming
to
you
for
that
expertise,
then
obviously
they're
they're
they're,
looking
to
get
better
at
either
infrastructure
or
security
from
the
sounds
of
it.
B
So
they've
already
expressed
a
need
to
you
know,
do
better
at
this.
What
they
may
not
have
is
framework.
You
know
sort
of
a
framing
for
well.
How
does
that
fit
with
everything
else
you
know
in
in
the
maturity
model
we
take
a
very
we
try
very
hard,
though
it's
not
always
easy
to
take
an
application
or
service
agnostic
View
and
try
to
really
talk
about
what
are
the
business
goals.
You
know
what
what?
B
Why
would
you
even
do
this
and
what
and
what
does
a
higher
level
of
maturity
in
this
sort
of
area
of
discipline
in
that
competency,
Act
actually
look
like
what
does
it
get
you?
So
if
those
are
the
things
that
you're
hearing
people
ask
you
for,
then
using
the
framing
of
the
competencies
that
are
relevant,
I
think
might
be
helpful.
I
mean
I'd
love
to
hear
your
thoughts
on
that.
G
E
E
And
now
we
can
go
up
to
the
next
level
and
we
can
say:
okay,
let's
do
for
this
next
level,
what
we
did
with
the
first
level,
but
everybody's
already
kind
of
got
that
momentum
and
that
strength
from
solving
those.
Those
first
levels
that
now
it's
it's
a
little
easier
to
kind
of
progress
up
the
chain.
C
I
think
also
it's
quite
good
to
look
at
the
level
of
100
and
200.
You
go
actually
we're
not
so
bad.
We've
already
done
that
you
know
we're
we're
more
mature
than
you
know.
We
or
somebody
told
us
we
were
so
that's
a
helpful
thing
is
to
give
yourself
a
pat
on
the
back
and
then
not
spend
time
fretting
about
those
things
go
off
and
do
something
else
where
you
are
actually
pretty
bad,
and
you
know
the
2fa
thing
is
is
an
example
of
that.
You
know
there
is
an
argument
to
be
made.
C
I
probably
won't
make
it,
but
there's
argument
to
be
made
that
2fa
is
not
the
answer
to
all
all
security
issues,
and
even
if
it
is,
you
might
I
know,
but
there
might
be
other
things
which
are
more
important.
You
know
there's
no
point
in
having
great
security
if
you're,
if
your
production
line
is
on
fire,
so
so,
let's
go
and
sort
the
bid
out.
That's
actually
the
real
priority,
because
right
now,
I'd
have
to
worry
if
somebody
hacks
into
my
email,
because
the
production
Line's
on
fire.
C
So
you
know
so
I
think
it's
really
trying
to
keep
that
perspective
across
the
business
yeah
yeah
the
security
people
are
going
to
think
the
Securities
are
really
important.
Legal
are
going
to
be
absolutely
terrified
about
anything
that
looks
like
a
compliance
issue
and
the
production
operator
is
going
to
be
worried
about
business
processes
and
you've
got
to
try
and
take
a
balanced
view
across
the
whole
organization.
B
H
Yeah
I
put
a
chat
in
there
about
the
the
kind
of
why
you
know
it's
with
the
classic
start
with
why
conversation
and
I
just
wanted
to
come
up
before
of
the
notion,
because
there's
there's
a
lot
of
opinions
in
the
maturity
model
and
I
generally
agree
with
most
of
them,
but
kind
of
having
a
almost
a
link
back
to
other
articles
that
say:
here's
why
we
think
governance
is
a
good
thing.
He
is
why
we
think
you
should
be
measuring
and
doing
these
things.
It's
not
just
our
thoughts.
H
It
sees
that
the
backing
to
it
and
always
kind
of
link
it
back
to
I
love
the
work
lab
site
from
Microsoft,
because
it
goes
into
the
Y
and
uses
the
evidence
and
numbers
from
it.
I
realize
it.
It
feels
almost
like
a
next
level
of
maturity
for
the
maturity
level
to
kind
of
go
to
that
level
of
depth.
But
just
wonder
if
we've
been
touched
on
before
yeah,
we.
B
We
absolutely
are
trying
to
think
from
the.
Why
perspective
right,
it's
it's
not
just
do
these
things
and
then
you'll
be
able
to
check
off
some
boxes.
You
know
like
a
certification
kind
of
thing,
which
I'm
not
a
huge
fan
of
certifications
because
they
don't
prove
anything.
It
just
means
that
you've
checked
off
some
boxes.
I
think
I.
Think
that
the.
Why
comes
from
what
your
organization
needs?
We've
also
tried
in
the
competency,
articles
and
I
mentioned
in
chat.
B
You
know
if
we're
not
doing
this
well,
please
please
help
us
or
tell
us
where
we're
missing.
We've
tried
to
talk
about
what
you
get
if
you're
good
at
this
particular
competency.
We
I
think
we
in
each
article
have
a
section
and
I
didn't
look
so
I
can't
remember
what
the
title
is,
but
there's
a
section
that
says
something
like
business
benefits
or
you
know
Roi.
A
B
That's
it
I
knew
there
was
a
header
that
we
agreed
on
so
so
we
try
to
talk
about
that.
If
we
don't
get
at
it
well
enough,
we
would
love
input
and-
and
you
know
that
that
doesn't
mean
that
that
section
has
to
be
the
place
that
that
goes.
If
there's
a,
if
there's
a
a,
why
article
that
you
think
is
missing
we're
absolutely
game
to
add
it
to
the
to
the
whole
content.
H
I
guess
I'm
thinking
of
kind
of
links
almost
in
each
of
the
sections
to
be
able
to
jump,
and
maybe
it's
a
I
have
to
make
that
a
slightly
lazy
scrolling
to
get
to
the
point
there.
But
you
know
why:
why
would
you
want
to
go
from
Level
300
to
400?
What
is
the
additional
jump
that
you've
got
and
that
benefit
you
know
I,
don't
think
you're
going
to
get
down
to
return
investment
directly
from
that
and
I.
Don't
think
we
should.
C
So
the
confidence
is
to
each
of
the
competency
level.
Competency
at
levels
have
an
impact
section
which
gives
very
high
level
justification
for
what,
but
what
you
would
see
if
you're
doing
it
at
this
level
and
you
can
imply
the
benefit
from
going
from
one
level
to
the
next.
From
that
again,
we
were
somewhat
reluctant
to
try
and
write
a
comprehensive
review
of
that
because
I,
you
know
if
the
documents
are
big
enough
already
and
B
A
lot
of
those
benefits
are
very
specific
to
the
needs
of
the
organization.
C
You
know,
there's
a
strategy
and
the
industry
and
all
that
kind
of
stuff.
So
so,
when
we
played
around
with
that,
it
became
more
or
less
impossible
for
us
to
write
it.
But
in
the
same
vein
that
you
might
take
the
straw
man
we
showed
earlier
earlier
and
produce
an
industry
or
a
business
specific
version
of
that,
and
then
we
could
share
that
back
out
to
everybody.
C
It
would
be
great
if
people
people
said
but
I
work
in
the
you
know
the
sustainable
energy
industry,
because
that's
one
of
my
pet
subjects
and
and
in
our
industry,
going
from
this
level
to
this
level
on
this
competency,
delivers
these
benefits
and
our.
Why
is
it
makes
the
world
a
better
place?
You
know
that
that
would
be
great
for
us
to
hear
back
from
the
community
and
feed
it
in.
We
can
associate
those
with
these
competences.
C
B
I
think
I
think
one
of
the
other
things
to
think
about
is
you
know
these
articles?
Are
you
know
we
wrote
them
to
hopefully
work
for
any
industry,
we're
we're
trying
not
to
pigeonhole
ourselves
too
much.
Part
of
that
means
that
we
have
to
be
Broad
and
vague
that
ideally
you're
taking
you
know
if
you're,
if
you're
actually
going
to
take
some
of
these
ideas
and
use
them
in
your
organization.
D
Hello
I
thought
I
I
put
something
into
this
part
of
conversation,
so
very
interesting,
loving
all
this,
and
just
just
to
think
about
adequacy.
What
comes
to
mind
is
the
idea
of
appropriateness
or
I?
Think
Simon
used
the
term
like
creating
a
sort
of
a
balanced
approach
and
from
my
experience,
I'm,
obviously
as
a
consultant,
not
the
one
who
can
make
that
a
judgment
or
can
make
a
decision
for
the
organization.
D
What
what
I
clash
with
the
more
security-minded
people
all
the
time-
and
we
spoke
about
MF
ages
for
a
reason,
okay,
so
so
as
an
information
manager
or
sort
of
collaboration
Champion,
my
attitude
usually
is
be
as
open
as
possible
and
only
as
close
as
necessary,
while
the
the
people
on
the
other
end
of
the
spectrum,
they
would
say,
let's
be
as
close
as
possible
and
only
as
often
as
necessary.
Okay
and
I.
D
Imagine
that
neither
my
position
nor
the
information
of
my
infosec
here
is
right
or
wrong,
but
in
in
the
context
of
appropriateness,
as
somebody
who
runs,
the
organization
needs
to
make
a
decision
where
to
be
on
that
spectrum,
because,
if
you're
too
close
to
cycle
collaboration,
if
you're
too
collaborative
you're
sharing
information,
you
shouldn't
be
sharing
and
But.
Ultimately,
the
Judgment
call
which
our
customers
have
to
make
for
themselves
and
in
a
sense
we
are
helping
them
to
make
the
best
decision
is,
is
so
yeah.
B
A
Okay,
thank
you.
Everyone
for
joining
us
for
a
session
we'll
be
back
on
February
21st
at
those
times,
3
P.M
in
the
UK
and
there's
a
set
of
links
there
to
get
involved
with
with
matutism
I
appreciate
all
the
discussions
been
really
good,
probably
to
hear
all
the
chats
going
on
and
have
a
good
rest
of
the
day
take
care
all.