►
From YouTube: Maturity Model for Microsoft 365 - May 2022
Description
Recorded:
• May 17, 2022
Topic:
Customization & Development Competency
Agenda:
• Practitioner & Maturity Model overview
• Artifacts and Updates
• Purpose
• How to get more involved
• Shout-out & Picture Time (Together Mode!)
Hosts:
• ⭐ Guest star ⭐ Zoe Wilson | @SharePoint_Zoe
• Marc Anderson, Sympraxis Consulting | @sympmarc
• Emily Mancini, Sympraxis Consulting | @eemancini
• Simon Doy, iThink 365 | @simondoy
• Simon Hudson, Novia Consulting | @simonjhudson
• Sharon Weaver, Smarter Consulting | @sharoneweaver
Resources:
• Maturity Model for Microsoft 365 - https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/community/microsoft365-maturity-model--intro
• Interested on joining on these calls - register at https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=KtIy2vgLW0SOgZbwvQuRaXDXyCl9DkBHq4A2OG7uLpdUODY3NVRFQ0E4SFg5WlI1TU83WFJQRklZSy4u
A
A
D
To
pick
up
so
we,
you
know
we're
talking
about
our
latest
artifacts.
So
recently
we
worked
well.
The
team
worked
on
the
governance
risk
and
compliance
has
been
released.
I
believe
modern
infrastructure
is
well
on
the
way.
Isn't
it.
I
know
simon
and
sharon.
You
guys
have
been
busy
beavering
away
behind
the
scenes
there.
But
you
know
the
purpose
of
the
maturity
model
is
to
improve
the
organization
through
the
use
of
technology
and
through
the
microsoft
365
platform.
But
it's
not
technology
focused.
D
It's
focused
on
the
you
know
the
business
using
business
language
and
trying
to
help
businesses
who
need
to
achieve
the
same
things.
You
know
good
at
communication,
good
at
collaboration
proving
the
way
that
they
manage
their
content,
maybe
the
way
that
they
produce
and
develop
software
and
customize
their
365
platform.
And
it's
a
you
know
it's
a
way
of
socializing
content
and
how
to
do
things
better
and
it's
a
community
effort,
so
yeah,
so
modern
infrastructure
is
coming
soon.
Next
slide,
please
I
would
love
you
to
get
involved
and
you
know
present.
D
D
Looking
for
you
know
you
can
contribute
on
github
by
creating
pull
requests
and
and
and
if
you
don't
want
to
contribute,
you
know,
give
us
some
ideas
of
things
which
you
think
are
missing
or
could
be
better.
We've
got
links
here
to
our
links
to
the
running
workshop
spreadsheet
and
our
previous
recordings,
and
now
that
we've
been
going
for
over
a
year,
haven't
we
so
yeah,
please
get
involved
and
the
link's
all
there.
D
D
Where
sort
of
that
initial
chaotic
state
working
its
way
up
through
to
level
500.,
we
kind
of
say
that
level
300
is
where
we
we
think
organizations
should
be
to
have
a
you
know,
a
pretty
robust
process
and
service
and
competency
whereas
level
beyond
level
300,
we
started
using.
You
know:
quantitative
techniques
to
be
able
to
measure
how
well
we're
doing
in
that
competency
how
we
can
make
improvements
and
level
500
using
those
those
measurements
to
to
optimize
the
way
that
we
deliver
our
competencies.
D
The
next
slide
please
and
the
next
one
we've
got
is
kind
of
the
same
thing,
but
on
the
right
there
we've
got
the
intent
so
taking
each
of
those
levels.
What
are
we
trying
to
achieve?
You
know
level
100,
you
know
things
are
on
fire,
we're
just
trying
to
keep
the
lights
on
level
200
we're
starting
to
realize.
We
need
to
do
things
in
a
better
way,
so
how
do
we
do
that
level?
D
300
we've
got
a
defined
way
of
working
and
we
want
to
make
sure
that
people
are
doing
that
and
it's
being
consistent
and
then
level
400.
As
I
was
saying,
we're
measuring
we're
analyzing
we're
taking
actions
to
to
make
improvements
level
500
that
nirvana,
where
ai
is
doing
everything
and
we're
we're
making
an
innovative
organization
which
is,
is
constantly
improving.
C
Next,
I
think
it's
I
think
it's
worth
mentioning
here,
simon
and
you're
write
a
lot
of
familiar
names,
but
every
competency,
your
organization
is
probably
at
different
levels
in
different
competencies
and
that's
a
good
thing.
You
know
you
want
to
make
sure
that
you're
you're,
focusing
on
the
competencies
that
really
matter
for
your
organization.
D
That's
a
very
good
point
mark.
Thank
you.
So
we've
also
got
you
know
a
new
slide.
This
came
in
with
when
we
were
talking
about
governance,
risk
and
compliance,
so
how
we
sort
of
see
the
levels
building
on
top
and
where
we
see
each
level.
So
you
know
you
know
it's
not
not
all
cases,
but
you
know
level
100.
You
know
it's.
It's
new
teams
being
spun
up
new
startups,
new
processes
being
introduced
or
new
competencies
being
introduced
into
an
organization,
maybe
they've
just
switched
on
their
power
platform
and
level
200.
D
You
know
this
is
where
organizations
I
think
it's
where
my
organization
is,
where
we're
maturing
we're
we're
learning
we're
getting
we're
moving
our
way
to
a
defined
process
in
a
way
that
we
like
to
work
and
then
level
300
new
is
around
established
organizations
which
have
been
around
they've
understanded.
What
the
things
they
need
to
do
probably
hit
some
problems
and
learn
from
those,
so
that
they've
got
a
process
which
is
an
and
a
way
of
working
which
is
robust
and
then
level.
D
400
is
where
you
know:
you're
evolving,
those
competencies
you're
becoming
you
know,
successful,
efficient
organizations.
Now,
finally,
level
500,
you
know
your
best
to
breed
because
you
know
custom
development
you're,
you
know
delivering
a
new
version.
Every
10
seconds,
you're
doing
10
000
deployments
a
day,
maybe
in
the
customization
development
world,
so
yeah
those
those
examples
which
are
really
pushing
the
boundary.
A
C
Sorry
that
nothing
to
do
with
heather
everything
to
do
with
my
old
mind,
heather
severino,
will
be
joining
us,
then
so
we're
gonna
take
a
few
months
off.
If
you
know
there
are
things
that
you'd
like
to
discuss
in
the
in
the
interim,
you
know
we're
all
still
available
and-
and
you
can
reach
out
to
us
through
twitter
or
all
the
usual
mechanisms
that
are
on
the
slides
at
the
end.
C
So
thank
you
to
everyone
who
came
in
april.
You
know
our
list
is
pretty
healthy.
Look
at
all
the
applause
for
yourselves.
You
know,
I
think
I
think
we've
got
some
pretty
good
attendance.
We've
got
some
regular
people
who
come
it's.
It's
awesome
that
you're
that
you're
making
time
in
your
day
to
you,
know
improve
your
skills
in
this
area.
We've
got
a
couple
of
we've
got
one
session
coming
up
in
the
sharing
is
caring
initiative,
which
is
another
part
of
the
pnp
effort.
C
There's
a
community
docs
session
on
may
17th
at
those
times,
depending
on
your
time
zone
that
that
session
is
often
a
second
one
after
the
first
time
contributor
sessions.
But
one
of
the
things
that
it
helps
you
do
is
make
make
contributions
to
the
articles
that
we
have
in
the
maturity
model,
david
and
and
others
run,
run
those
sessions,
and
they
really
take
you
through
working
with
github
and
and
the
articles
in
the
repo
to
to
be
able
to
make
any
any
kind
of
change.
C
E
E
C
B
Brilliant,
thank
you
so
so,
first
of
all
hi
everyone,
and
thanks
so
much
for
having
me
join
you
today.
My
name
is
zoe
wilson
and
I'm
going
to
start
by
saying
I
do
feel
like
a
little
bit
of
a
fraud
sitting
here
in
front
of
you
planning
to
talk
about
customization
and
development,
because
I'm
not
a
developer,
and
actually
I
haven't
been
a
hands-on
techie,
for
I
don't
know
a
few
years
now
either.
B
B
You
know
completely
from
scratch
actually
and
I've
learned
about
the
need
for
maturity,
the
hard
way
I'm
an
mvp
for
office,
apps
and
services,
I'm
quite
active
in
the
tech
community,
and
if
any
of
you
are
going
to
be
in
scottish
summit
or
it
comes
verse
next
month.
Please
do
come
and
say
hello.
If
I
don't
already
know
you
I'd
love
to
I'd
love,
to
meet
you
and
and
get
to
know
you
a
little
bit
better
and
the
two
cats
that
you
can
see
on
screen.
B
So
if
you
start
at
level
100,
I
think
what
you
see
here
is
kind
of
one
extreme
or
the
other,
and
when
we
were
talking
yesterday,
we
kind
of
described
this
as
either
the
wild
wild
west,
where
everything's
turned
on
everything's
enabled
for
everybody.
People
are
just
going
off
and
doing
whatever
they
want
and
you've
kind
of
got
no
idea
what
people
are
doing
really
versus
one
that
I've
seen
quite
a
lot
working
with
the
uk
public
sector,
which
is
where
they
just
turn.
B
Everything
off
and
they're
sort
of
scared
of
people
doing
the
wrong
thing,
and
actually
I've
heard
clients
talk
about
this.
There's
the
next
access
database
problem-
and
you
know
they
don't
want
users
going
out
and
just
spinning
up
loads
of
things
that
will
become
the
next
access
database,
where
they've
they've
got
to
support
it.
They've
got
to
figure
out
how
it
works.
They've
got
to
figure
out
what
to
do
with
it.
B
They're,
probably
you've
probably
got
one
person
who's,
doing
the
full
end-to-end
thing
so
they're
doing
the
requirements,
gathering
the
business
analysis,
they're,
assessing
which
tools
to
use
they're
building
it
they're
qaying
it
they're
testing
it
they're,
deploying
it
into
live,
they're
supporting
it
when
they
realize
it
doesn't
work
properly,
because
they've
not
had
anybody
peer
review,
what
they're
doing
or
provide
any
sensible
challenge
and
again
I've.
I've
experienced
this
early
in
my
career
when
I
didn't
know
any
better,
what
happens
once
you've
done?
B
One
solution,
that's
kind
of
fine,
once
you've
done
a
few
you've
got
this
kind
of
problem
of
the
all
this
stuff
that
you
need
to
support,
and
this
demand
going
up
with
people
who
are
just
asking
for
for
new
solutions
and
more
things,
and
it
just
creates
this
really
really
massive
bottleneck,
and
this
is
typically
when
teams
start
to
become
aware
of
a
need
to
have
mature
processes.
They
need
well,
they
need
to
have
processors
at
all
really
and
then,
as
we
start
as
we
continue
up
that
maturity
curve.
B
B
You
need
to
put
your
arms
around
citizens
developers
so
make
sure
that
they've
got
governance,
guardrails
in
which
they
can
operate
and
that
they
understand
the
rules
of
engagement
and
that
they've
got
a
little
bit
of
help
as
well
and
obviously
again,
as
you
move
further
up,
all
of
this
becomes
more
robust.
It
becomes,
you
know,
it
becomes
kind
of
stricter
you've
got
more
automation
built
in
and
by
the
top
of
the
maturity
curve.
B
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
was
mentioned
when
we,
when
we
caught
up
yesterday,
which
was
really
interesting
to
me,
was
this
concept
of
enterprise
I.t
being
seen
as
an
asset
rather
than
a
liability
and
sharon
or
simon.
I
don't
know
if
you,
if
you
want
to
just
you,
know,
expand
on
that
one,
a
little
bit
more.
D
Yes,
so
I
mean
I,
I
both
had
different
points
of
view
to
me
sharon,
but
you
know
you
know,
but
that's
in
it
with
with
synergy
there.
You
know
from
my
perspective
it
was
you
know,
understanding
what
you
already
have.
So
you
don't
reinvent
the
wheel.
You
build
up
this
portfolio
of
solutions
which
have
been
built
and
understand
what
they
do
and
understand.
What's
available
in
the
365
platform
as
well,
so
you're
not
re
reinventing
the
wheel,
I
think
sharon
you're
sort
of
more
from
even
higher
perspective
around
the
enterprise
architecture
side.
A
So
one
of
the
things
that
we're
seeing
a
lot,
especially
like
to
your
point
with
all
these
apps
and
everything
moving
around
is
just
that
need
for
enterprise
planning,
enterprise
architecture,
enterprise,
knowledge,
and
I
think
you
know
when
we
get
to
this
kind
of
level
of
enlightenment
and
customization
and
development.
You
know
all
the
things
that
we're
making
all
the
things
that
we're
doing
all
the
things
that
we're
planning
we
get
a
level
of
understanding
and
management
around.
What
are
we
doing
and
what
do
we
have
and
what
do
we
not
have?
A
And
things
like
that
to
the
point
where
now
all
of
a
sudden,
we
can
get
roi
out
of
rit
group,
and
we
understand
that
what
we're
putting
in
and
investing
in
is
what
we
actually
need
to
get
and
that
it's
you
know
providing
value
back
to
the
business
as
opposed
to.
I
think,
at
the
earlier
levels
we're
making
things
so
that
we
can
solve
problems
but
we're
not
necessarily
at
an
enterprise
level,
financially
keeping
track
of
kind
of
how
that's
working
more
than
just
can
we
pay
the
people
we
have.
B
So
I
think
there's
some
really.
This
is
a
really
important
question.
You
know:
are
you
making
for
the
sake
of
making
or
whether
you
actually
need
to
build
this
thing
that
you're
being
asked
for-
and
you
know
that,
if
you
look
at
this
line
at
the
bottom,
which
is
what
we
were
just
talking
about,
will
it
cause
more
problems
than
it
solved?
Actually
is
it
you
know
how
much
what?
B
I
and-
and
I
think
sometimes
particularly
at
the
lower
maturity
levels.
People
do
just
go
off
and
build
because
they've
got
a
tool
and
they
kind
of
know
that
it's
going
to
help
them
solve
the
problem
without
understanding
how
it
fits
into
that
that
wider
ecosystem
and-
and
these
are
some
really
useful
things
to
consider,
but
actually
there's
a
there's,
a
question
that
that
I
was
reflecting
on
which
isn't
on
here,
which
is:
does
the
functionality
already
exist
in
some
other
application
so
and
it
kind
of
ties
into
enterprise
planning?
B
But
I
see
this
in
the
public
sector
frequently
where
people
are
asking
for
apps
and
they
don't
understand
that
across
their
organization
they
might
have
five
or
ten.
That
already
do
the
thing
that
they're
trying
to
do
but
they're
asking
for
this
specific
thing
or
they're
asking
for
something
to
be
built
or
for
access
to
tools
to
build
something,
because
that's
what
they
know.
That's
what
they've
been
told
that
they
that
they
need
to
do,
and
so
it's
really
really
important
to
understand
what
the
business
is
actually
trying
to
achieve.
B
You
know
what
what's
the
problem
that
we're
trying
to
solve
and
to
get
this
right.
The
analysis
stage
is
super
important,
so
it's
it's
really
vital
that
we
understand
the
different
user
personas
and
you
know
what
what
the
different
types
of
personas
are
going
to
be
doing
in
the
application,
the
business
processes
that
underpin
whatever
it
is
that
is
being
requested
and
how
it
needs
to
be
used.
B
You
know
what
what
that,
what
those
typical
use
cases
look
like,
and
then
this
allows
decisions
to
be
made
about
how
it
should
be
developed
and
how
its
life
cycle
is
going
to
be
managed,
including
support
and-
and
I
think,
from
a
maturity
space
perspective.
That's
absolutely
key,
but
sharon
do
you
want
to
add
anything
anything
further
on
enterprise
planning
here.
A
I
I
think
that
was
brilliant.
I
I
think
that
that's
exactly
the
point
is
you
know
what
are
we
doing
and
why
are
we
doing
it
and
I
think
at
a
level
of
competency
for
for
specifically
for
customization
development,
you
have
to
really
put
the
effort
in,
and
I
think
the
problem
with
customization
development
is
so
many
people
just
make
for
the
sake
of
making,
instead
of
thinking
about
what
they're
doing
and
what
the
purpose
is
and
what
the
value
is.
B
They've
got
whether
it's
you
know
an
m365
architect,
a
servicenow
architect,
a
dynamics
architect
whatever
it
is,
and
you
talk
to
them
about
a
problem
and
the
answer
is
their
platform,
or
you
know
the
thing
that
they're
most
comfortable
with
so
having
that
interface
before
you
get
to
the
developer
type
rules.
Who
can
actually
understand
what
the
business
problem
is
and
start
to
map
that
out,
I
think
is
super
super
super
key,
because
you
know
if
you've
got
a
hammer,
everything
looks
like
a
nail:
doesn't
it.
B
D
B
Yes,
so
we've,
you
know,
we've
mentioned
cities
and
developers
a
couple
of
times
and
as
as
that,
approach
to
customizing
and
developing
is
maturing.
I
think
it's
crucial
that
the
role
of
citizen
developers
becomes
well
understood
and
typically
when
we,
when
we
use
this
term,
we're
talking
about
people
who
don't
work
in
it,
they
they
sit
in
different
parts
of
the
business
who
are
using
technology
to
solve
their
own
problems
and
cities
and
developers
generally
start
out
as
end
users
who
like
to
tinker.
You
know,
they're
they're
generally
quite
driven
switched
on
people.
B
So
they
they
start
to
research,
and
they
become
aware
that
there
are
tools
that
are
going
to
allow
them
to
start
to
build
simple
solutions
that
can
help
them
get
things
done
more
effectively
and
when
we
think
about
this
in
terms
of
maturity.
Actually,
then
it's
not
just
thinking
about
citizen
developers
and
what
they
need,
but
it's
taking
it
a
step
before
that
and
thinking
about
it.
From
the
end
user
perspective,
so
how
does
an
end
user
become
a
citizen
developer,
and
is
that
something
that's
understood
and
documented?
B
Is
there
a
process
for
that
within
your
organization
or
in
the
absence
of
that
end
user
having
the
desire
or
the
ability
or
the
time
to
be
a
citizen
developer?
What
is
the
process
for
them
to
ask
for
stuff,
you
know
is:
is
there
an
innovation
funnel?
How
do
you
get
ideas
from
people?
What
is
the
selection
criteria?
B
How
do
you
determine
whether
to
configure
to
buy
to
build
you
know
who
who
actually
makes
those
decisions
and
who
understands
how
all
of
this
fits
into
the
business
enterprise
architecture
and
and
then
for
an
end
user?
Who
does
want
to
become
a
citizen
developer?
How
do
they
get
the
training
and
the
help
that
they
need?
How
do
they
get?
How
do
they
have
environments
provisioned,
where
they
can
build
stuff
in
a
dev
environment,
completely
segmented
from
anything,
that's
live,
and
quite
often
with
citizen
developers.
B
What
what
we
see
is
that
they
start
to
build
simple
things
and
then,
as
they
get
more
confident,
you
know
they
might
start
to
do
things
that
are
a
little
bit
more
sophisticated,
but
typically
they'll
hit
a
point
where
the
solution
has
either
become
too
complex
or
they're
way
out
of
their
comfort
zone
and
they
need
help,
and
what
does
that
need
to
look
like
what?
What
type
of
help
do
do
we
give
citizen
developers
when
they
get
to
that
point
you
know
is:
is
this
an
I.t
burden?
B
Do
do
we
understand
what
that
looks
like
who
supports
what
they
build?
You
know:
do
they
support
it
themselves?
What
happens
if
they
leave?
Is
it
documented?
What
is
the
you
know
what
what
needs
to
be
true
for
things
created
by
citizen
developers
to
be
accepted
into
production
or
into
general
support
by
it?
C
C
B
Right,
okay,
so
so
for
the
for
this
first
governor
and
story,
I
couldn't
actually
give
a
name
of
a
customer,
but
I
have
got
quite
a
few
customers
who
are
who
are
in
in
this
scenario-
and
this
is
I
mean-
I
talked
about
this
a
little
bit
earlier,
where
you
know,
typically,
when
power
platform
specifically
first
started
becoming
more
of
a
thing.
What
I
saw
with
lots
of
uk
public
sector
was
just
this
massive
fear.
You
know
they
didn't
understand
it.
B
They
just
thought
it
would
be
a
huge
risk,
so
they
turned
everything
off
and
we've
managed
to
work
through
this
with
some
of
them
and
get
them
to
a
point
where
we've
put
the
center
of
excellence
in
place
and
we're
starting
to
work
with
them,
to
empower
some
of
their
staff
to
build
things.
But
it's
been
a
really
really
painful
process
to
do
that,
and
I'm
sure
this
is
a
I'm
sure.
B
The
the
one
I
really
wanted
to
talk
about,
though,
was
the
the
met
police
service
so
and
the
met
police
have
about
55,
000
users,
I
believe,
and
within
the
uk
the
microsoft
365
implementation
for
policing
has
it.
It's
had
to
be
delivered
to
standards
to
designed
by
the
what
was
called
the
national
labor
national
enabling
program
which
has
you
know.
B
They've
got
blueprints
that
have
kind
of
higher
levels
of
security,
and
what
we
saw
with
other
police
forces
was
that
they
they
they
weren't
willing
to
put
the
power
platform
in
because
there
were,
I,
I
I
don't
think
I
don't
think
they
were.
I
don't
think
it
had
been
fully
documented
by
the
nep,
so
they
just
said
right.
We're
not
going
to
do
it
again.
It's
too
scary,
too
risky.
B
So
maybe
about
18
months
ago,
two
years
ago
we
implemented
the
power
platform
centre
of
excellence
for
them,
and
we
started
running
some
mapping
a
day
sessions
for
citizen
developers,
and
I
think
we
trained
about.
I
don't
know
150
to
200
people,
and
I
went
to
dig
out
the
stats
they've
now
actually
got
because
they've
been
doing
some
of
this
internally
as
well.
They've
got
over
400
app
makers
within
their
organization
and
they've
developed
so
over
a
thousand
apps
across
the
police
force.
B
I
think
that's
it's
about
1100
canvas
apps
and
over
200
sharepoint
list
apps,
which
is
just
it's
just
absolutely
staggering.
You
know
those
are
kind
of
police
officers
that
they're
they're.
You
know
frontline
frontline
workers
who
are
essentially
solving
their
own
problems
with
the
tools
that
the
police
have
given
them
and
their
maturity
is,
it's
absolutely
still
improving.
You
know
they're
still
on
their
way
up
that
that
maturity
curve,
but
because
they
took
some
time
to
think
about
this
up
front.
B
They
were
able
to
really
set
the
organization
up
for
success
and
one
of
the
one
of
the
leaders
there.
When
I
was
talking
to
him
about
this
at
the
start
of
the
process.
What
what
he
was
really
keen
to
do
was
to
actually
use
this
as
a
way
to
test
the
need
for
certain
apps
so
that
they
could
say
right.
B
Different
organizations
have
different
preferences,
for
you
know
for
different
methodologies,
whether
it's
devops
agile.
You
know
that
there's
everyone,
I
think,
has
their
own
specific
flavor
and
I
think
it's
more
about
making
sure
that
you've
kind
of
got
this
and
that
you
understand
what
the
roles
are
in
the
process
and
that
people
follow
the
process.
A
Yeah,
I
think
methodology
is
like
such
a
crazy
discussion
and
I've
had
it
in
so
many
places
and
anybody
you
talk
to
is
you
know
it
is
their
one
right
methodology
and
I
think
that
the
important
note
to
take
away
from
a
maturity
level
discussion
is
that
it's
not
about
which
methodology
it's
about.
Do
you
have
a
methodology?
A
A
Any
methodology
done
correctly
is
probably
the
best
methodology,
because
at
the
end
of
the
day,
their
methodologies
are
there
to
support
you
to
be
a
mature
organization
and
do
the
right
things
and
as
long
as
you
pick
one
and
you
learn
it
and
you
follow
it
and
you
subscribe
to
it
and
you're
culturally
embracing
it.
I
think
you're
going
to
have
more
success
than
any
other
methodology
done
done
incorrectly
or
incompletely.
A
So
I
think
that's
the
big
takeaway
from
from
the
methodology
bullet
point
and
we
could
spend
an
hour
discussing
the
different
types
and
how
to
do
them
and
it's
cute,
because
you
know
and
the
chat
some
of
the
very
first
questions.
Well,
what
about
a
scrum?
What
about
a
backlog?
What
about
you
know
pairing?
What
about
you
know
mob
programming
like.
Let
me
come
up
with
some
more
buzzwords
right.
It's
it's
not
about
you
know.
Are
we
doing
these
things?
It's
did
you
pick
a
methodology?
Are
you
following
it?
C
I
think
I
think
it's
also
really
important
as
an
organization
to
understand
that
these
are
methodologies
defined
somewhere
else
by
other
people.
You
bring
them
in
you,
you
choose
what's
good
and
bad
for
you,
it's
a
lot
like
this
maturity
model.
You
know
it's
not
we're
gonna,
I
mean
you
may
decide
you're
gonna,
follow
it
to
the
letter
of
the
law,
but
that
that
may
actually
not
fit
you
well.
C
I
mean
you
have
to
you
have
to
understand
that
you
you've
chosen
a
you,
know
those
guard
rails
so
that
you're
going
to
be
be
more
successful,
but
when
you
need
to
step
outside
those
guardrails
have
the
discussions
as
a
team
so
that
you're
understanding,
okay,
this
is
an
exception
for
this
reason,
and
maybe
that
actually
impacts
the
way
we
do
our
next
project.
It's
it's
not
like
this.
Okay,
we're
gonna.
We
chose
a
methodology,
we're
now
gonna
be
agile
and
everything's
going
to
be
perfect.
It
just
doesn't
work
that
way.
C
D
F
C
C
G
So
I'm
really
interested
in
how
you
introduce
potential
or
dark
citizen
developers
to
this
level
of
governance,
and
you
know
this
additional
skill
set
yeah.
How
do
you
persuade
them
that
it's
a
good
thing
that
they
really
ought
to
be
working
to?
How
do
you
wrap
them
with
the
support
and
make
them
feel
both
loved
and
enabled.
A
Yeah-
and
I
think
that's
something
we
had
on
a
previous
slide-
is
usually
in
the
level
300
and
400.
You
know
we
think
about
team
and
team
building.
We
go
through
the
forming
stormy
norman
performing,
and
we
we
noticed
that
at
the
three
or
four
hundred
level
that
when
we
talk
about
development,
you
know
kind
of
maturing
that
there's
kind
of
this
point
at
which
that
the
citizen
developers
become
part
of
the
team.
A
A
When
you
get
to
three
and
four
hundred
of
weight,
why
are
you
putting
rules
around
me?
Why
are
you
telling
me
what
to
do?
Why
now?
I
have
to
follow
your
rules,
but
I
think
the
point
is
if
instead
of
saying
stop
doing
that
because
that's
our
job
instead,
we
looked
at
it
as
a
point
of
there's
all
these
people
out
here
who
can
help
us
then,
and
we
embrace
that
and
we
bring
them
in
and
we
we
share
that
knowledge
with
them.
A
B
Yeah,
I
do
think
as
well
having
worked
at
an
organization
that
was
intro
introducing
agile
across
the
entire
business,
a
new
methodology
won't
typically
be
introduced
and
adopted
fully
overnight.
It
takes
time
to
kind
of
bed
it
in
and
to
get
people
following
it
and
to
see
the
difference
that
it
can
make
and-
and
you
know
it's
part
of
the
maturity
curve,
isn't
it
the
kind
of
more
people
adopts
the
methodology
and
become
familiar
with
it?
The
more
effective
it's
going
to
be.
D
Yeah
and
about
sort
of
again
communicate
those
success
stories.
You
know
where,
where
it's
done
really
well,
you
know,
you
know
this
methodology
helped
us
achieve
this,
you
know
and
showing
those
outcomes
and
that's
what
brings
in
you
know
the
the
later
doctors
and
the
people
on
on
that
on
the
curve.
A
C
Yeah
these
sites,
these
slides
sort
of
grab
the
the
key
points
from
the
article
that
we've
got
in
the
repo
so
that
you've
got
a
more
consumable
version
of
it.
So
you
know,
if
you're
having
a
discussion
inside
your
organization
and
talking
about
well,
where
do
we
fit
into
this?
These
slides
can
be
helpful
for
you.
B
Yeah
they
might,
if
you
just
go
back
to
that
slide.
I
think
my
favorite
line
on
here
in
tons
with
sharepoint
is
developers,
don't
know
the
platform
so
write
code
instead
of
using
native
features,
the
amount
of
developers
I've
seen
over
the
years,
try
to
build
stuff
for
sharepoint
that
you
can
do
out
the
box
just
blows
my
mind.
F
Yeah,
I
think
it's
the
same
thing
for
almost
all
rpa
developers
as
well.
Sorry,
if
I'm
stepping
on
someone
here-
but
you
know,
rpa
has
been
so
hot,
so
everyone
just
tries
to
like
okay,
we
should
rpa
everything
just
because
we
want
to
you
know
optimize
the
process.
Here
you
could,
there
might
be
apis,
it
might
be
the
best
better
option
to
actually
build
an
api
as
well.
But
if
you
don't
know
that
I
don't
know.
C
F
C
F
F
D
G
G
G
How
do
you
source
code
manage
things
like
powerapps?
What
is
the
source
code
that
is
managed,
because
it
doesn't
look
to
me
like
there's.
You
know
a
long
yeah,
a
long
ream
of
script
or
code
there.
So
how
do
you
actually
do
that
in
the
real
world
and
then,
more
importantly,
how
do
you
then
get
the
citizen
developers
to
engage
with
what
are
often
intimidating
development
tools
or
development
repositories?
D
You
can
you
can.
Certainly
you
know
you
can
take
these.
There
is
code.
There
are
this
code,
you
know
so
a
power
app,
you
can
sort,
you
can
package
it
up
as
a
solution
and
you
can
export
that
and
put
that
source
control.
So
we
do
do
that
we'll
take
a
copy
of
something
from
a
development
environment
and
put
into
source
control
and
then
push
it
through
to
other
environments.
D
I
do
have
an
article
which
I'm
starting
to
to
write
about
that
or
how
we
do
it,
but
so
you
can
do
that
so
you're
taking
a
backup
of
the
source
and
then
I
guess
to
to
get
you
know
to
get
citizen
developers
on
board.
It's
it's
training,
isn't
it
you
know,
what's
the
benefit
for
them?
How
do
they
understand?
D
You
know
how
to
use
the
tools
and-
and
so
it's
training
like
it
would
be
anything
you
know-
you've
got
to
invest
and
put
energy
into
into
training.
So
they
understand.
You
know
why
they
want
to
do
this,
and
you
know
when
I,
when
I
give
when
I
work
with
our
team
and
we'll
put
together,
you
know
a
sprint
of
what
we're
doing.
I
dare
to
love
the
fact
that
they
can
just
kind
of
go
right.
Well,
I
do
that
one
and
then
I
do
the
next
thing
and
it's
giving
them
a.
D
H
Yeah
this
is
ralph
here
been
quiet
for
a
while
here,
gotta
step
in
because
this
just
a
big
misconception
for
a
lot
of
folks
is
that
the
low
code
pieces-
and
this
is
not
just
for
power
platform-
is-
can
be.
Source
code
can
be
ci
cd.
Like
anything
else,
I
mean
it
may
be
harder,
because
there
are
certain
things
that
don't
seem
the
same.
H
It
doesn't
look
like
the
same
animal
that
we
were
touching
say
with
spfx
or
with
some
other
quote,
unquote
traditional
code,
but
it's
there
and
if
someone
says
it's
not
that's
the
first
misconception
that
I
end
up
going
in
and
doing
battle
with,
because,
like
oh
you
can't
source,
go
that
to
battle,
we
go
step
into
the
ring.
I
hope
you
brought
weapons
because
sign
your
will
right
now,
because
I'm
going
to
give
you
exactly
the
answer
on
how
to
get
through
this,
and
this
is
a
nirvana
again.
H
It
may
not
be
perfect,
but
the
idea
is,
if
you
don't
even
try
you
don't
even
do
it
then
there's
no
point
you're,
not
even
trying
it's
like
well,
I
think
I
mentioned
earlier.
If
you
don't
believe
in
your
tools,
you're
going
to
fail
so
number
one,
I
need
to
make
you
believe
that
it's
going
to
work,
if
you
don't
believe
it's
going
to
work
because
there's
no
source
control,
like
you
do
in
traditional
dev,
then
that's
the
first
thing.
I
need
to
fix
perception
wise.
It's
not
necessarily
fix.
It.
H
Maybe
fix
your
alm
that
that's
that's
a
different
project.
Let
me
at
least
fix
your
perception.
First,
without
your
perception.
If
you're
not
behind
me,
we
can't
move
forward.
The
organization
has
to
be
behind
you
in
this
particular
case.
I
think
of
it
as
it
has
to
be
a
major
stakeholder
here
behind
the
effort
of
the
so-called
citizen.
Devs
I.t
is
not
going
to
do
that.
They're
too
busy
doing
admin
right
so,
but
it
might
be
in
charge
of
devs
right.
H
A
No,
it's
a
great
point.
Ralph
is
that
I
I
t
you're
absolutely
right,
like
we
spend
a
lot
of
our
time
in
support
and
maintenance,
and
we
don't
get
to
make
probably
as
much
as
we
want
to
make,
and
I
think
it's
a
good
idea
to
include
them
as
part
of
your
resource
pool
and
make
sure
that
they
feel
like
you
are
supporting
what
they're
doing.
H
H
You
know
they're
not
going
to
save
the
world
if
they're
going
to
sink
and
drown
when
the
sharks
come
out,
you're
the
one
that
probably
gives
them
the
boat
and
no
one's
going
to
give
you
credit,
because
you
gave
them
the
freaking
boat
come
on.
It's
like
you
are
in
charge.
You
are
people,
you
make
a
decision
because
you
happen
to
know
how
things
are
operationally
working
at
the
end
of
the
day,
you're,
the
ones
that
are
monitoring
it,
to
see
that
it's
actually
working
while.
Meanwhile,
everyone
else
is
dreaming
up
their
great
solutions.
C
Well-
and
I
think
I
think
you
know
all
that
methodology
that
it
claims
to
have
is-
is
not
necessarily
something
in
source
control
being
part
of
that
right.
It's
not
necessarily
something
that
your
citizen
developers
are
going
to
be
able
to
deal
with,
and,
and
that
should
be
understandable.
That
should
be
something
where
it
is
supporting
them.
How
let
us
figure
out
how
we
can
do
source
control
for
your
power
platform
stuff?
Let
us
run
some
stuff
in
the
background
that
that
helps
you.
You
know
maintain
standards
that
we'd
like
to
have
you?
C
Have
you
follow
so
again?
It's
always
that
partnership,
which
in
most
organizations
it's
lacking
right,
it's
I.t
and
citizen
developers
and
that's
how
far
apart
my
arms
can
go
and
and
that's
not
the
way
it
ought
to
be.
It
ought
to
be
this
right.
It
ought
to
be.
You
know,
I'm
I'm
building
something
I'd
like
your
help.
Oh
okay,
we'll
help
you
we'll
we'll
talk
about
source
control.
You
know
we'll
help
you
document
et
cetera,
et
cetera,
it's
a
it's
a
it's,
a
symbiosis
as
opposed
to
a
battle.
G
And
this
is
a
point
that
I
was
going
to
sort
of
hear
debate
as
well,
which
is
yeah
the
tools
which
are
used
by
pro
code
developers
may
not
be
the
best
tools
and
therefore
should
not
necessarily
be
imposed
on
citizen
developers
for
source
code
and
things.
You
know,
I
think,
a
reasonably
mature
organization
will
make
sure
that
the
tools
that
are
being
applied
across
the
development
spectrum
are
appropriate
to
each
point
in
that
spectrum.
A
Yeah
and
which
is
why
it's
so
important,
I
think
when
we
talk
about
development
and
customization
a
lot
of
times,
we
end
up
going
down
the
rabbit
hole
of
discussing
code
and
continuous
integration
and-
and
you
know,
methodologies-
and
we
spend
so
much
time
talking
about
that
and
what
we
really
don't
spend
very
much
time
talking.
Sometimes
about
is
analysis,
and
it's
that
idea
of
getting
at
the
very
very
beginning
and
understanding.
A
You
know
that
very
first,
like
what
are
we
doing?
Why
are
we
doing
it?
Is
it
the
right
thing?
Are
we
picking
the
right
tool?
Have
we
thought
about
the
total
cost
and
it's
it's
spending
enough
time
in
the
analysis
zone,
and
that
can
be
anything
from
a
couple
conversations
to
a
longer
time
period,
depending
on
how
much
analysis
it
takes
to
make
sure
that
the
effort
is
going
into
the
right
place,
so
whatever
that
means
making
sure
that
we're
doing
the
right
thing
to
solve
the
problem.
D
I
guess
you
know,
you
know
that.
Could
you
know
if
you
introduce
them
to
your
governance
for
citizen
developers,
that
there
is
some
something
which
they
you
know
need
to
sort
of
just
kind
of,
for
you
know,
fill
out
to
kind
of
make
them
think
about
all
those
you
know
those
when
they're
building
a
solution,
at
least
then
you
can
guide
them
around.
You
know
making
the
right
decisions
and
making
sure
that
things
are
in
place.
A
I
I've
seen
it
in
the
wild
simon,
so
I
don't
think
it's
too
naive
in
the
wild
the
place
that
I
have
seen
it.
The
places
that
I've
seen
them
do
that
are
definitely
four
to
five
hundred
level
organizations
that
have
already
put
their
hands
around
this.
They
already
understand
that
that's
important
and
you're
absolutely
right.
They've
built
a
process
around
supporting
the
citizen
developers.
H
Yeah,
I
just
wanted
to
emphasize
my
post
here's.
The
idea
is
if
the
the
governance
is
like
not
noticed,
if
everything
is
flowing,
process
act
and
you're
following
the
process
without
thinking
about
it,
that's
you
know
that
you've
hit
the
maturity
level
when,
when
you're,
when,
when
it's
obvious
to
you
that
someone's
doing
something
you
feel
like
you're
being
touched
at
all
times,
that's
when
you're
still
at
the
100.
It's
like
this
bothers
me.
H
It's
like
hold
on
a
second
we're
trying
to
fit
you
we're
trying
to
custom
fit
it
to
your
to
yourself
when
you
again
when
you're
just
walking
around
and
you
feel
like
you're
you're
on
a
beach
instead
of
walking
in
the
snow
yeah
there
you
go.
I
more
have
more
and
more
metaphors
and
analogies
for
for
simon
over
here,
but
especially
snow,
but
the
idea
again
is
you
are
mature
when
you
have
abstracted
things
to
the
point
where,
like
it's
automated,
the
automation
is
unnoticed.
H
D
C
F
B
A
A
So
if
you
guys
are
aware
of
organizations
that
kind
of
center
around
certain
practices,
the
iiba
is
an
international
group
that
governs
how
business
analysis
works,
I'm
lucky
to
have
been
part
of
it
since
the
beginning
and
I'm
a
big
fan
and
I'm
a
sponsor
of
our
local
chapter,
and
it's
just
a
great
group
that
really
defines
the
way
that
business
analysis
should
be
done
and
it's
very
heavy
handed
around
software
development
and
support.
So
if
you
don't
know
who
they
are,
I
want
to
look
into
that.
A
A
I
didn't
put
any
more
for
different
methodologies,
and
I
only
did
this
because
I
love
mountain
goat
software
and
I
love
dave
cohn
and
I
love
every
every
cone
and
all
the
stuff
he
puts
together
and
his
books
are
fantastic.
So
if
you
want
good,
agile,
like
estimating
and
planning
books,
users
story
books,
things
like
that
there
are
some
of
the
few
things
that
I
actually
pay
for
and
have
on
my
bookshelf
and
use
on
a
regular
basis.
D
Yeah
so
this
book
I
read
a
few
months
ago,
it's
by
some
of
the
the
pioneers
of
the
devops
movements
and
nicole
falls,
green
jazz,
humble
gene
kim,
and
it's
just
it's
a
really
interesting
book
about
how
it's
very
business
focused
about.
You
know
how
a
organization
benefits
from
the
principles
of
lean
software
and
devops.
You
know
just
thinking
about
things
like
the
well-being
of
developers
and-
and
you
know
that
side,
which
is
you
know,
we're
hearing
a
lot
about
microsoft.
D
365
with
with
you
know
the
viva
suite,
but
you
know
it's
interesting
about
you
know
organizations
which
adopt
these.
You
know
they're
more
profitable.
They
they
have
less
employee
burn
out
they're,
just
generally
organizations
which
are
nicer
places
to
work
and
better
places
to
work
and
also
have
a
profitability
as
well.
So
yeah,
it's
a
really
really
fascinating
book.
F
D
A
A
D
B
C
Go
back
one
slide
there
we
go
so
you're
you're,
very
welcome,
and
thanks
for
thanks
for
spending
the
time.
We
really
appreciate
it.
Just
a
couple
of
links
here
to
take
away
if
you,
if
you
haven't,
joined
us
on
the
call
before
these,
these
links
will
get
you
to
the
recordings
for
for
prior
sessions,
the
slide
decks
from
prior
sessions.
Just
to
reiterate,
the
the
next
call
will
be
on
september,
20th
we're
taking
the
next
three
months
off
we're
all
going
to
go
and
have
fun
in
the
summer.
C
If
you
want
to
keep
track
of,
what's
been
going
on,
with
the
maturity
model
and
and
with
the
community
docs.
Those
twitter
accounts
at
the
top
are
good
to
follow.
There's
not
a
lot
of
noise
and
traffic
there.
It's
it's
generally
announcements
of
new
articles
or
information
about
upcoming
sessions,
so
we're
following
and
keeping
track
of
things
thanks.
Everybody
for
coming
any
last
words
from
anyone
else.