►
Description
In this installment of the weekly discussion revolving around the latest news and topics on Microsoft 365, host – Vesa Juvonen (Microsoft) | @vesajuvonen is joined by US/India based Microsoft Principal Product Manager - DC Padur | @dcpadur. The discussion centered on the roles of a Principal Product Manager and developer at Microsoft, the importance of personal networking, code development approach and execution today, how Microsoft supports remote work, and tips for working asynchronously on a Worldwide team. Microsoft and the PnP Community delivered 16 articles and videos in the last week! This session was recorded on Monday, November 7, 2022.
References
• See the full blog post for this episode in the Microsoft 365 Platform Community blog at https://aka.ms/m365pnp/blog
• Download the podcast for this episode at http://pnpweekly.podbean.com.
• Microsoft 365 Unified Sample gallery - https://aka.ms/m365/samples
• Microsoft 365 Platform Community in YouTube - https://aka.ms/m365/videos
• Microsoft 365 Platform Community - http://aka.ms/m365/community
A
B
Episode
186,
it
is
7th
of
November
2022.
in
the
BMP
week.
I
always
talk
about
the
latest
on
Microsoft
365
areas
and
typically
we
have
a
visitor,
and
today
or
in
this
episode
it
is
DC
Potter,
and
this
is
a
principal
product
manager
and
OneDrive
SharePoint
experiences,
team
and
responsible
of
the
pages
and
pages
apis
and
many
other
things
and
we'll
talk
about.
B
This
is
career
and
the
different
roles
and
his
tips
on
moving
or
working
as
a
engineer
or
developer,
and
a
PM
and
so
on
and
and
the
flexibility
and
what
Microsoft
nowadays
actually
gives
for
their
employees
as
well.
Now,
my
name
is
certainly
when
I'm
a
product
manager
from
the
Microsoft
365
platform
areas
and
with
me
as
a
co-host,
is
wild
deck
MasterCards.
Now
today,
however,
while
deck
is
unfortunately
sick,
so
I'll
do
this
quick,
really
quickly
with
a
different
role.
B
Here
we
go
so
typically
and
the
second
person
would
be
well
like
I,
say
senior
Cloud
Advocate
on
the
Microsoft
traces
platform
areas,
but
again,
as
said
waldek
is
out
today
being
in
flu.
So,
but
we
wanted
to
record
the
episode
anyway.
So
that's
why
I'm
now
in
both
of
the
screens,
which
is
a
bit
of
an
interesting
situation
now
without
the
further
Ado,
let's
actually
move
into
the
interviewer
with
DC
and
we'll
do
the
weekly
articles
right
after
that,
so
let's
jump
in
there
excellent.
B
B
C
C
On
this
episode
great
to
be
here,
hello,
all
my
name
is
Divya
Chapin.
My
first
name
is
really
long
that
but
I
go
by
the
name.
Dc,
that's
just
shot
for
like
Washington
DC.
It's
the
show
it's
my
short
nickname.
Everybody
calls
me
that
and
I'm.
Okay
with
that,
so
I've
been
I'm.
Currently
a
product
manager
in
Microsoft.
So
we'll
just
go.
Do
this
reverse
chronologically
and
before
being
a
product
manager?
C
I
was
also
a
developer
in
Microsoft
I
actually
started
as
a
Dev
in
the
Microsoft
bin
advertising
platform
for
10
12
years
ago,
and
before
that,
I
was
a
graduate
student
at
the
University
of
Cincinnati
I
I
love,
school
I,
love
being
in
school
is
going
to
car.
You
know
taking
classes
and
learning
was
just
like.
It
was
a
lot
of
fun
for
me
having
a
masters.
C
I
I
almost
got
at
the
end
of
a
PhD,
but
I
did
not
finish
it,
but
I
did
enroll
into
all
the
coursework
and
research
work
for
the
PHD,
so
that
was
a
fun
experience
as
well,
so
I
spent
about
10
years
in
grad
school
and
before
that
I
was
in
India.
For
about
20
years,
you
know
schooling
and
undergraduate
education,
bachelor's
education,
so.
C
You
know
lower
middle
class,
traditional
family,
it's
a
nobody
in
my
family
had
been
to
the
US.
So
it
was
a
fun
thing
for
me
to
come
to
the
US
and-
and
you
know,
become
a
person.
I
would
say
my
formative
years
have
been
in
the
Years,
that's
fun,
so
I
I,
you
know,
met
my
wife
in
the
U.S
who's
married.
We
have
two
little
kids
and
yeah
life
is
life
is
great
and
you
know
every
every
day
and
every
month
is
a
challenge
of
new
kind
and
we're
looking
forward
to
that.
C
B
C
See
the
the
the
metaphysical
answer
to
what
does
a
product
manager
do
is
always
the
the
why
we
we
always
get
to
talk
about
the
what
and
why?
What
needs
to
be
built,
and
why
do
we
need
to
build
it
and
the
rest
of
the
the
helper
scope,
put
a
structure
around
that
vision
and
then
go
the
how
and
the
well
and
the
dependencies,
and
all
of
that?
That's
what
that
everybody
else
helps
us
out
with
them.
C
C
On
internal
developer
tools
and
the
cloud
infrastructure
experiences
and
then
five
years
of
doing
that,
I
wanted
to
change.
I
wanted
to
be
on
the
product
side
of
the
of
SharePoint,
interacting
with
customers
and
building
our
experiences
so
and
that's
where
I
am
right
now,
working
on
the
SharePoint
business
and
the
pages,
the
modern
Pages
application.
That's
those
are
the
two
areas
that
I
am
a
product
manager
specifically
working
on.
What
enables
the
platform
experiences
of
the
pages
technology
yeah.
B
Yeah,
that's
actually
really
cool.
Now
now
you
set
that
as
a
product
manager,
you
focus
on
why,
rather
than
how
and
what
what
does
that
actually
mean?
What
so,
is
that
a
Microsoft
thing
well
I'm
a
product
manager
as
well
so
I
kind
of
know
this,
but
for
those
who
are
watching
or
listening
so
if
that
I,
what
what
does
that
mean?
Why
why
you
could
focus
on?
Why.
C
C
So
that
also
becomes
an
important
aspect
of
problem
solving
so
I
I
kind
of
like
to
give
an
example
to
it's.
An
anecdote
from
my
life
experience
that
sort
of
captures
what
PMS
do
the
anecdote
is
where
I'm
in
a
in
my
dev's
office
and
we
are
having
a
meeting
a
quick
stand-up
meeting,
then
planning
we're
kind
of
setting
up,
and
he
mentions
that
there
is
this
Dev
box
that
keeps
making
a
lot
of
noise
and
it
sort
of
bothers
us.
In
our
conversation
and.
C
Kicking
it
and
it
just
doesn't,
do
anything
and
we
take
the
time
and
I'm
I'm
signing
near
the
machine
and
then
I
happen
to
notice
that
where
he
is,
teaching
is
not
where
the
problem
is,
and
he
had
to
go.
Kick
the
fan
and
the
specific
pack
of
the
the
power
unit.
That
is,
for
the
GPU
one,
especially
in
a
different
industry
and
I,
said
hey.
You
need
to
pick
there
and.
A
A
C
B
There's
lack
of
ideas
and
lack
of
things
and
problems
to
solve
the
challenge
is
really
to
Define,
which
problems
you
start
solving
one
by
one,
because
of
course
it's
a
journey,
you
you
go
towards
and
vision
or
whatever,
and
then
you
start
tackling
one
step
at
a
time
those
problems
or
challenges
or
enablers
in
the
product
for
doing
forward
so
and
because
every
single
company,
even
Microsoft,
has
a
limited
resources
on
a
specific
areas.
You
need
to
figure
out
what
are
the
things,
what
you
want
to
measure?
B
A
C
The
the
efficacy
of
a
solution
is
a
you
know
in
in
the
the
entire
technology
has
been.
There
is
a.
There
is
a
shift
in
what's
happening
in
the
world,
so
the
the
example,
the
example
here
being
that
a
lot
of
people
were
not
Tech
enabled
and
the
easiest
outcome
was
just
get
them
technical,
as
in
people
who
are
fighting
with
paper,
just
get
them
to
type
on
a
computer.
That's
actually
done
the
fact
that
something
should
was
enough
20
years
ago,
maybe
25
years
ago.
C
The
fact
that
something
new
shipped
or
something
digital
in
this
domain
shift
was
enough
because
they're
like
hey
look,
this
product
is
out,
there
was
success,
but
that
has
shifted.
A
whole
lot
of
the
world
is
a
little
bit
difficult
and
whole
lot
of
the
world
has
been.
You
know,
I've
I've,
we'll
get
to
talk
about.
Why
I'm
in
India,
but
the
biggest
shocker
for
me
being
in
India,
is
the
people
who
have
never
worked
with
computers
or
not
familiar
with
anything.
Everybody
has
a
smartphone.
C
Everybody
does
digital
payments
the
street
vendor,
who
sells
onions
on
a
card
as
digital
payments?
So
there's
at
that
point
you
get
to
the
place
where
it's
not
just
enough,
that
there
is
a
product.
It's
also
important
and
the
product
meets
the
user's
hands
and
actually
solves
the
problem.
So
the
the
demand
on
technology
has
gotten
more
specific
and
more
more
granular.
So
that
is
why
the
product
manager
has
that
has
soon.
C
But,
as
you
said,
there
are
so
many
different
ideas
and
so
many
different
problems
to
solve
and
depending
on
what
sort
of
organization
you
are
in
and
what
stage
of
growth
you
are
in.
There
are
different
examples
like
you
could
be
an
early
startup.
It
could
be
a
Mid-State
startup.
You
could
be
a
large
Behemoth
like
Microsoft.
It
depends
on
those
things.
So
in
all
of
those
things,
the
fundamental
skills
stays
on.
C
C
And
if
we
don't
know
which
idea
to
pick
and
if
we
have
a
gut
feeling
on
you,
listen,
you
listen
to
early
signals
for
what
to
solve,
and
then
you
listen
to
the
product
signals
and
after
Post
shipping
signals
or
usage
and
Telemetry
to
and
and
user
research
to
actually
find
out
whether
we
succeeded
and
that
informs
your
next
cycle,
because
it's
not
a
wall
and
done
right.
You
have
a
six
month
cycle
to
I
idea
can
shift
something.
B
Yeah,
and
and
really
specifically
on
The,
Matrix
and
measuring
the
successes,
also,
of
course,
that
helps
on
also
picking
or
fine-tuning
the
big
thing,
what
you're
defining
so
how
how
the,
if
you're,
basically
looking
into
getting
more
clicks
or
views,
there's
a
big
big
difference
on
on.
How
do
you
implement
the
feature,
and
how
do
you
define
the
objective
so
having
something
viewed,
although
there's
a
different
thing
and
having
something
clicked
and
then
there's
a
there's,
an
actionable
or
impact
on
the
design
which
is
coming
from
VMS?
Isn't
it
so
the
design
absolutely.
C
C
I
think
this
is
a
problem
worth
solving
I'm
going
to
go,
find
the
niche
of
people
who
who
are
going
to
Value
the
fact
that
I
am
solving
this
problem
with
technology
or
any
any
other
any
method
possible
and
that
product
Market
fit
journey
is
different
and
the
what
and
the
why
there
are
different
experience
than
a
standardized
product
like
Microsoft
SharePoint,
where
a
product
managers
asked
us
to
go,
make
it
more
accessible.
Yeah
right,
accessibility
is
not
a
MAO
game.
C
Nobody
does
accessibility,
because
you
know
two
days
or
two
months
after
you,
ship,
ten
thousand
people
are
going
to
be
using
your
accessibility
feature.
That's
not
how
the
Mao
game
works
right,
because
accessibility
is
a
compliance
feature.
It
is
how
you
make
sure
that
your
your
you
know
we,
the
the
product,
that
your
ship
is
in
truly
Global
and
truly
available
to
everybody,
and
you
know
aligning
with
our
Microsoft
principle
of
empowering
every
person.
C
A
C
Absolutely
different
yeah
one
is
about
fit
I
want
more
people
to
come
to
the
top
of
my
funnel,
and
you
know,
two
years
after
I've
had
a
million
users,
then
I'm
going
to
go
figure
out.
You
know
why
my
retention
is
not
greater
than
where
it
should
be
and
that's
a
different
cycle
in
a
different
ball
game,
but
nevertheless
the
questions
always
start
with
the.
What
and
the
why
yeah.
B
Yeah,
that's
actually
really,
accessibility,
it's
a
really
good
example
by
the
way,
because
it's
not
a
ma.
Okay,
as
you
said,
it's
it's
a
it's
a
it's
a
thing
where
we
in
Microsoft,
we
need
to
invest
and
we
are
investing,
but
it's
not
because
we
want
to
have
specifically
new
users
we
want
to
have
everybody
have
to
have
access
on
the
features
and
capabilities,
because
that's
part
of
the
values,
what
we
represent
really
good
point.
B
Actually,
now,
let's
go
back
on
time
a
bit
before
we
go
back
on
where
you
are
right
now
and
all
of
that.
But
let's,
let's
do
a
few
exercises
on
your
historical
things.
So
you've
done
a
developer,
you're
a
developer
first
in
Microsoft.
How
did
you
get
to
Microsoft?
How
is
anybody
somebody
who's
looking
into
I'm
a
developer
I
want
to
be
in
Microsoft.
What
would
be
like
future
tips
on
getting
started
on,
or
is
it
just
applying
and
hoping
the
best
are.
C
There
anything
I
don't
want
to
say
that
traditional
route
does
not
work
it.
There
are
examples
of
that.
Having
worked
but
the
I
believe,
the
higher
rate
of
success
is
with
networking.
The
reason
I'm
in
Microsoft
is
because
a
friend
here
for
me
yeah,
the
friend
was
leaving
and
she
wanted
to
refer
me
and
she
did
to
her
own
manager
and
because
she
referred
because
of
her.
The
peripheral
coming
from
her
the
manager
had
one
call
with
me
because.
C
Had
that
call
with
that
manager,
so
I
just
cold
called
or
just
sent
an
email
to,
with
my
resume
to
then
write
down
that
personal
reference
is
what
God
made
a
call
the
manager
who's
interested
and
then
I
got
into
a
full
loop
and-
and
that's
you
know,
you
do
well
in
the
conversation
and
I
come
from
a
non-computer
science
background,
while
I'm
familiar
with
Cody
I'm
I've,
never
done
yeah.
What
might
be
considered
as
a
traditional
internship
in
in
you
know,
coding
or
internship
in
in
the
software
and
life
cycle.
C
Experiences
right,
so
I
prepared
for
the
interview,
but
my
my
the
way
I
talked
and
the
way
I
was
unpacking.
The
problem
is
why
I
can't
develop
a
role
as
as
a
entry
level
developer
in
Microsoft,
so
I
would
say
sure
you
know
definitely
keep
applying
you
never
know
which,
unless
you
knock
on
the
door,
you
never
know
which
door's
gonna
open
but
build.
Your
networks
spend
your
time
in
connecting
with
people
making
genuine
connections
with
them
and
make
you
know
making
them
see.
C
C
Yep
absolutely
yeah
I
mean
everything.
Is
you
know
from
a
growth
mindset,
point
of
view
everything
is
learnable,
you
know
even
soft
skills
are
learnable,
but
what
comes
across
is
where
you
begin
that
Journey
and
the
time
it
takes
to
learn
something
afterwards.
Just
learn
something
as
a
hard
skill.
The
heart
skills
are
much
faster
alert
and
retained
than
soft
skills.
B
True,
absolutely
absolutely
now
you
you
actually
mentioned
under
networking
just
to
Trill
you
there
a
bit.
So
what
would
be
the
ways
of
networking?
Of
course,
you
said
already
the
the
volunteering
on
a
non-profit
organization,
School
proper,
plays
a
good
way
of
having
those
connections.
Any
other
things
come
to
mind.
What
what
does
the
networking
mean?
How
do
you
network
it
with
people
so.
C
Will
share
that
and
which
is
resonates
with
me
right.
You
don't
Network
when
you
need
the
network,
you
just
Network,
you
make
connections,
you
are
you
prove
that
you
are
a
person
who
cares
about
others
and
you
are
helping
and
not
just
my
interaction
with
the
person
who
referred
me
to
Microsoft
was
never
with
the
intention
that
they
would
one
day
refer
me.
It
was
never
in
the
picture
right.
It
just
so
happened
that
we
met
up
and
we
were
volatility
all
together.
C
We
stayed
in
touch,
we
became
friends
and
then
one
day
I
was
like
hey
I'm.
Looking
for
the
terminal,
I'll
counter
for
you,
I
got
them,
that's
it
right.
So
for
somebody
who's
on
the
cusp
of
looking
for
a
job
right
now,
especially
with
the
the
world
economy
and
the
the
situation
with
the
tech
world.
As
such,
I
would
say,
you
know
you
if
you
were
already
employed,
see
if
you
can
find
your
list
while
managers,
somebody
else
who
can
help.
C
You
refer
that's
one
way
if
you're
fresh
out
of
college
and
you're
trying
to
get
a
new
job
in
this
edible
I
don't
want
to
use
the
r
word,
but
you
know
the
terrible
situation
right
now.
You
know
go
back
to
your.
You
know
the
the
alumni
of
your
institution
that
you
might
have
met
before
when
you
were
when
you
were
when
they
were
seniors
in
your
organization
in
your
car
in
your
school
LinkedIn
is
absolutely
it's
a
great
way
and
show
up.
C
A
lot
of
people
will
remember
your
face
and
interaction,
a
lot
more
than
the
rest
of
me
on
all
the
their
people
that
they
have
so
you
know
and
make
an
impression
and
start
building
towards
that,
and
once
you
get
a
job,
don't
stop
right,
keep
keep
contributing,
give
back
give
back
as
much
as
you
can
all
the
time
and
then
maybe
hopefully
you
don't
need
it
ever.
But
if
you
do
ever
need
the
network,
you
have
the
network
yeah.
B
Exactly
that's
actually
a
really
important
thing
as
well.
What
you
said
is
that
don't
stop
whenever
I
get
the
job
as
well,
because
if
you
want
to
actually
keep
on
having
that
growth
mindset
and
the
natural
not
necessarily
intentional
way
of
networking,
but
the
natural
way
of
networking
just
being
you
and
connecting
with
people
and
helping
people
were
suitable
because
again
helping
the
people,
other
people
will
definitely
always
leave
a
mark.
B
People
will
remember
that
and
if
you're,
if
you
are
a
technical
or
you're
in
the
in
the
community
or
for
writing
code
or
all
of
that
open
source
and
Community
channels,
which
we
have
are
a
great
ways
of
doing
this,
because
again
it
gives
you
the
opportunity
of
showcasing
what
you've
done
and
what
you're
capable
of
doing,
and
that's
precisely
why
we
raise
people
or
why
we
ask
people
to
do
community
demos
and
all
of
that
in
our
course
as
well.
But
it's
it's
having
that
opportunity
and
exposure
now
from
developer.
B
C
When
I
joined,
Microsoft
I
did
not
know,
there
was
a
thing
called
pm.
I
was
of
the
mindset
where
you
write
code
and
the
code
solves
a
problem.
That's
it
right
like
what
else
besides
code
is
there
so
three
months
into
my
job
as
a
new
developer,
I
had
a
conversation
with
my
manager,
one-on-one
and
I'm,
asking
him
this
question
dude?
C
Why
are
you
telling
me
what
to
do?
Why
is
this
other
guy,
whose
title
is
program
manager
telling
me
what
to
do
and
and
that
you
know
he
sort
of
explained
I
help
you
with
your
career
I
help
you
with
solving
the
problems,
learning
the
skills
and
whatnot,
but
the
program
managers
who
decide
what
needs
to
get
built
and
when
it
gets
built
and
the
sequence
of
building
those
things
and
that
sort
of
little
bulb
whoa.
Okay.
So
it's
not
that
straightforward!
C
It's
not
just
I
wrote
and
I
was
a
ux
developer
at
that
time
and
I'm
like
I,
shook
this
piece
of
code
and
then
everything
is
magically
working.
Now
somebody
did
the
work
to
figure
out
that
this
button
needs
to
show
up
precisely
at
this
time
where
the
all
the
back-end
systems
have
already
lined
up,
and
this
button
interacts
with
that
API
and
that
database
and
that's
how
everything
works
right.
That
was
an
aha
moment
for
me.
Three
months,
four
months
into
my
thing
was
like
you,
sort
of.
C
I
never
questioned.
How
did
this
API
come
to
be
like
you,
you
were
telling
me
to
call
this
API
I
never
asked
the
question.
Nobody
I,
you
know
there
was
a
spec.
There
was
thing
is
working
great,
so
it
was
that
was
that
sort
of
triggered
in
my
mind
there
is
this
role.
I
should
go
explore
that
at
that
time
there
was
also
the
S
debt
role,
the
you
know
the
tester
role
of
the
attack,
so
I
told
myself
from
a
career
point
of
view.
C
I
want
to
go
see
what
these
other
roles
mean
as
well.
Why
does
a
test
roll
exist?
Why
do
what
do
they
do?
That's
different
from
what
I
do
I
wanted?
I
told
myself
I've
spent
two
years
as
a
developer
two
years
as
a
PM
two
years
as
a
test
and
then
I
evaluate
what
I
want
the
most,
where
I
had
the
most
fun
and
continue
doing
that
so
I
I
was
a
deaf
for
two
years
and
it
sort
of
culminated
where
my
entire
team
was
sort
of
disbanding.
My
manager
was
leaving.
C
I
took
the
chance
to
just
go,
explore
pre-approves
at
that
time,
and
though
there
was
a
time
when
there
was
no
online
resource
or
maybe
I
didn't
search
enough.
There
were
no
internal
rules.
There
was
no
mentoring
sessions
like
I
I
didn't
speak
with
a
PM
before
interviewing
for
a
PM
role,
because
I
didn't
know,
I
could
just
ping.
Somebody
and
say:
can
I
have
a
conversation
with
you.
I
didn't
know
that
I
felt
I
felt
I
shouldn't
be
asking
I
should
already
know
it.
There's
all
these.
You
know
syndromes
at.
C
Exactly
we
don't
know
either
it's
okay
to
ask
us
exactly
and-
and
it
was
not
that
it
was
not
that
the
the
the
heavier
conversations
and
career
coaching
at
least
I
didn't
see
it
that
much
like
right
now
in
our
organization.
There
is
always,
you
know,
mentoring
conversation
happening.
If
you
go
into
the
Twitter
World,
there
are
so
many
PMS
who
are
posting
their
knowledge.
There
was
no
Twitter
when
I
joined.
You
know
all
these.
All
these
interesting
things
were
happening
at
that
time.
C
A
A
B
We
go
exactly
exactly
so,
but
coming
on
the
on
the
piano,
we
need
to
talk
about
the
testing
role
a
bit
because
I
know
that's
when
you
said
that
some
people
are
like.
Aha
now,
I
know.
But
let's,
let's
talk
about
that
one
in
a
second,
because
it's
good
to
have
an
open
discussion
on
that
as
well,
but
I
would
say
for
the
BM
part
I
love.
The
PM
is,
of
course
in
Microsoft.
B
It's
super
complicated
role,
because
every
single
PM
defines
to
be
enrolled
a
bit
differently
right,
but
one
of
the
cool
things
to
think
about
it.
That
I
was
just
thinking
as
we
were
explaining.
That
is
it's
almost
like
the
the
way
the
spider
web,
but
you're
the
one
who's
making
all
of
the
different
connections.
So
there
are
a
lot
of
people
like
developers
are
quite
often
being
asked
just
to
focus
on
your
thing,
your
technical
you're
really
good.
B
At
on
what
you're
doing
you
don't
need
to
worry
about
that
thing
over
there,
but
as
a
DM
you're,
the
one
who
needs
to
understand
a
bit
of
that
bit
of
that
bit
of
that?
Bit
of
that
bit
of
that
and
then
doing
the
connections
between
them
and
then
being
the
kind
of
the
the
clue
between
the
different
people
and
and
shipment.
Is
that
a
good
way
of
putting
that.
C
It's
no
longer
that
simple,
where
just
a
person
writes
code,
just
a
person
tests
the
code,
another
person
writes
a
spec
which
was
three
years
old
when
the
course
when
the
code
is
being
written
because
nothing
has
changed
in
the
world.
No,
no!
It's
something
really
really
fast
right.
So
the
complexity
and
the
speed
of
execution
means
that
they
have.
C
While
there
are
these
roles
defined
as
product
manager
and
your
TTM,
maybe
in
other
organizations
and
in
a
developer,
designer
everybody's
got
to
be
at
least
a
little
bit
familiar
with
what
the
other
person
is
doing
sure.
So
the
way
I
am
internalizing.
My
product
manager
role
is,
you:
are
the
person
or
there
is
the
the
directly
responsibility
visual
for
solving
this
problem
or
shipping
this
feature
or
getting
this
out?
C
You
do
whatever
it
takes,
because,
of
course,
you're
not
gonna
write
the
code
because
there
are
requirements
and
qualities
and
everything
to
be
done,
but
short
of
writing
the
code
yourself.
You
are
responsible
for
everything,
a
sort
of
Designing
the
product
yourself.
You
you
drive
because
you
find
people
you
find
the
funding.
You
get
the
work
done
and
you
get
the
connections
made.
As
you
said,
where
you,
the
the
web
of
activities
with.
B
B
B
A
C
C
We
are
no
longer
in
the
waterfall
world,
of
somebody,
I
suspect
for
nine
months
and
then
hands
it
over
to
a
developer,
who
writes
code
for
six
months
and
they'll
hand
it
over
to
a
tester
who
will
test
it
for
another
six
months
before
somebody
prints
a
DVD
and
ships
it
out
to
the
world.
That's
not
the
world
we
are
living
in.
C
So
we
had
to
get
to
the
place
where
a
developer
has
more
responsibility
towards
the
code,
the
test
driven
development
or
the
developer
being
responsible
for
the
quality
of
the
work
they
do
well
and
it
puts
the
forcing
function
on
the
infrastructure
teams.
People
say:
hey,
we
don't
have
the
infrastructure
to
have
test
driven
development.
Go
build
that
right.
If
you
did
not
have
that,
then
the
way
start
leaning
on
people
instead
of
efficiency
of
coding,
which
is
not
a
great
use
of
resources
right.
So
what
it's?
C
It's
not
that
we
remove
the
testers
title
and
remove
the
testers
themselves.
We
made
everybody
got
made
developers
and
they
got,
they
became
developers
or
they
become
PMS.
They
find
their
passion
in
how
they
want
to
do
they.
You
know
they
get.
They
upskill
themselves
to
become
what
they
need
to
be,
but
in
general,
the
testing
functionality
has
been
absorbed
into
the
developer
role
that
the
monitoring
and
the
Telemetry
all
of
that
gets
absorbed
into
the
developer
role
and
PLS.
C
Now
need
to
be
aware
that
you
need
to
budget
for
that
as
a
part
of
future
rollout.
You
can't
just
say
code
complete
for
the
primary
feature
that
I've
done
yeah
you
gotta
have
Telemetry,
you
gotta
have
accessibility,
you
gotta,
have
you
know
a
reliable
monitoring
of
your
feature.
You
need
to
make
sure
that
every
checking
is
a
production
level
quality
in
your
environment.
So
those
are
the
the
service
experiences.
The
cloud
born
experiences
that
we
that
everybody
needs
to
be
ascribing
to
and
that's
why
we
don't
have
a
dedicated
title
called
tester
yep.
B
C
There
is
always
going
to
be
bugs
so
I,
don't
think
people
need
to
point
out
the
bug.
Let's
say
this
is
why
Microsoft
Cornell
all
code
has
bugs
I
I,
don't
know
of
any
company
or
anything
anything
shipped
ever,
not
just
technical
care.
That
I'm
sitting
in
right
now
has
a
bug
in
it.
So
that's:
okay,
that's
just
that
system
fact
of
life,
but
that's
they
they
the
interesting
paradigm
shift.
C
B
It
that's
a
good
way
of
explaining
that
that
is
a
really
good
way
of
explaining
that
now.
Let's
then
jump
on
the
current
time
and
a
location
and
everything
so
you
you
talked
about
the
fact
that
you
actually
graduated
from
us
as
a
masters.
You
went
to
the
Microsoft
in
the
U.S
and
you
you
worked
in
the
OneDrive
SharePoint
organization
or
ship
on
the
organization
in
Redmond,
but
you
actually
currently
are
calling
from
India
so
and
you've
been
actually
working
remotely
from
India
now
for
a
while.
What
happened?
B
C
Yes,
so
so
before
I
do
that
this
is
absolute
thanks
to
my
organization
Microsoft,
as
a
company
where
it,
where
number
one
priority,
is
its
own
employees.
It
teach
it
to
all
employees
really
really
well.
So
this
hats
off
to
that
approach,
especially
in
the
current
employment
I,
can't
stress
enough
about
why
why
why,
while
customers
are
very
important
to
you,
an
organization
even
more
important
are
the
people
that
work
to
solve
your
customers
problems.
C
They
take
care
of
them
really
really
well
and
I
am
a
prime
example
of
how
Microsoft
and
my
team
has
taken
great
care
of
me
and
it
just
started
with
six
months
ago.
So
we,
my
wife,
works
in
Academia
I,
think
he's
a
professor
of
computer
science
till
the
University
of
Washington,
so
she
got
promoted
and
she
got
a
year
of
sabbatical.
So
there's
a
concept
of
sabbatical
in
academic
circles.
C
You
know
many
of
you
might
be
familiar
with
that
which
allows
you,
for
a
year
of
time
off
from
your
regular
people,
duties
to
fully
focus
on
your
roof
of
work,
go
make
connections
across
the
world
and
that's
what
squares.
You
know
interesting
conversations
between
research
and
students.
We
were
discussing
where
to
go,
spend
that
one
year,
maybe
two
three
months
here-
three
months
there
and
then
there
was
a
spark
of
ideas,
hey.
Why
not
go
back
really
yeah,
and
this
is
the
post
pandemic
mindset
where
you
know.
Suddenly,
everybody
is
realizing.
C
What's
important
in
life
and
people
take
time
off
and
they
go
back
the
rooms
bedtime
with
family.
They
would,
you
know,
chase
their
passion
there
is
like,
and
we
are
not
Exempted
to
that
as
well
right.
So
we
were
cooped
up
for
two
and
a
half
years
worrying
about
parents
who
live
in
a
part
of
land,
and
we
thought
this
was
a
great
opportunity.
One
year
where
we're
not,
there
is
no
necessity.
There
is
no
forcing
function
for
me
to
be
there,
but
of
our
own
choice,
supported
by
the
our
places
of
work.
C
We
are
able
to
go,
spend
that
one
year
in
India
and
be
close
to
our
parents,
be
close
to
family,
expose
our
kids
to
the
the
life
that
we
had
led.
My
wife
and
I
have
both
from
India
and
we
were
from
the
same
place
in
India,
so
it
helps
us
to
go,
live
that
again
and
show
our
kids
what
we
went
through.
So
that's
and
you
know
one
drive
and
SharePoint
the
leadership.
You
know
I'm
gonna,
I'm,
gonna,
voice
up
to
add
Apartments
who's
manager.
C
He
was
extremely
supportful
supportive
of
this
sensor.
So
thanks
to
him
and
and
everybody
else
after
the
chain
as
well,
it
was
great
so
they
let
they're
basically
I'm
an
employee
of
Microsoft
India
right
now
for
a
year,
it's
on
a
phone
loan
I
work
on,
so
it
was
really
interesting
like
it
was
a
culmination
of
good
things.
C
C
B
B
C
More
than
12
hours
right
now,
it's
the
coast
in
India
and
they
have
got
13
and
a
half
or
14
and
a
half
depending
on
where
you
are
in
China.
So
it's
yeah,
it's
easier
for
me
to
coordinate
with
my
China
team
for
my
projects
and
the
India
team.
For
my
projects
and
more
than
half
of
it
is
the
US
team
and
I
I.
Do
that
as
well.
B
Now
I
do
this.
Obviously
I've
been
doing
this
for
many
many
years
already,
and
thank
you
for
all
the
SP
and
engineering
and
Leadership
for
allowing
this
to
happen
and
not
forcing
to
move
the
Redmond.
But
how
do
you
deal
with
the
with
the
time
zone
and
the
time
zone
differences?
And
how
do
you
decide
which
meetings
you
actually
take
because
I
can
imagine
essay
principle
BM,
you
get
a
lot
of
meeting
requests
where
you
might
want
to
be
or
might
not
want
to
be.
A
C
Two
things
right:
first
thing:
it's
it's
a
forcing
function
for
me
as
well
in
terms
of
getting
better
with
written
Communications.
While
you
know
a
lot
of
people
would
say,
this
meeting
could
have
been
an
email
and
a
lot
of
times.
It's
it's.
This
kind
of
situation
forces
you
to
think
about.
Should
this
actually
be
a
meeting,
or
can
this
be
an
email?
So
why
don't
I?
C
Try
the
email
out
first
and
then
decide
if
I
need
a
meeting
so
that
forces
the
written
clarification,
written
communication
aspect
of
it
a
lot
more
and
that
helps
prioritize
meetings
alone
and
not
just
my
PM
readership,
my
entire
network
of
my
developers,
individual
everybody
is
working
with
me
to
make
sure
that
they
do
the
meetings
in
the
morning
or
specific
time,
which
is
which
puts
the
meeting
that
a
reasonable
hour
during
a
lifetime.
For
me,
and
so
all
of
my
meetings,
so
pretty
much
I
do
you
know
9
pm
to
12
a.m.
B
Yeah
yeah
makes
makes
sense,
but
I
do
actually
something
similar,
which
is
I
work
in
a
safe
that
hours
in
the
same
way,
not
as
radical
as
you,
because
from
India
it's
it's
even
three
hours,
more
shift
yeah,
but
my
my
day
is
to
big
land
at
10
pm
because
10
p.m.
My
time
is
noon
and
a
lunchtime
in
Richmond
and
that's
basically,
the
typical
limit
on
yeah
I
can
do
that.
But
I
don't
want
to
do
too
much
longer.
Of
course
exceptions
can
happen.
So
yeah.
B
Work,
yep
yep
exactly
so,
and
that's
actually
one
thing,
one
one
thing
well,
you
know
this
now
really
well,
but
it's
quite
common,
but
people
are
so
kind
of
stuck
on
nine
to
five
thinking.
Then
I,
all
the
time
I
have
in
meetings
where
people
are
like.
Oh
my,
isn't
it
super
right
for
you?
No!
No!
No!
This
is
I,
don't
work
from
nine
to
five,
it's
just
a
completely
normal.
So
it's
okay!
So
let's
move
forward.
B
C
C
B
C
No
I
mean
I'm
I'm,
absolutely
coming
back
to
the
United
States
so
because
my
wife
still
had
a
job
with
the
University
of
Washington
there
and
she
only
gets
a
year
off
for
somebody
because
she
needs
to
start
teaching
in
person
from
September
of
2023.
So
we
we
will
definitely
be
back
in
the
U.S
whether
I
get
to
be
back
in
Microsoft.
It
depends
on
the
economic
situation
and
because
technically
I
got
hired
in
Microsoft
India
and
now.
C
B
A
C
B
C
In
in
the
US
so
first
grade
here,
she
actually
got
to
be
in
second
grade
here
and
the
other
kid
is
in
kindergarten,
so
which
is
pretty
much
actually
is
three
kindergarten,
so
yeah,
no,
no
real
impact
on
their
academic
thing,
they're
also,
initially,
it
was
trouble
adapting,
but
they
are
having
fun
in
India
now.
So
that's
good.
A
B
Yeah
and
as
I
keep
learning
being
born
in
the
US
and
learning
that
thing
and
then
moving
to
India.
It
might
be
interesting,
but
yeah
gets
kids
are
good
on
that,
so
they
they
typically
adapt
as
well,
so
which
is
good,
yes,
but
cool.
Thank
you.
Dc
I'm,
not
going
to
take
more
time
away
from
your
family
time,
because
I
know
that
this
is
your
family
time
as
we're
recording
this.
But
thank
you
DC
for
great
discussion.
This
was
good
for
me
to
catch
up
on.
B
Why
did
you
went
to
the
India
as
well,
because
I
never
actually
had
a
detailed
discussion
on
that,
but
it?
It
actually
also
shows
the
flexibility
and
the
the
tooling
on
the
tooling
what
we
have,
which
is
absolutely
brilliant.
Because
again
we
can
do
this,
we
can
work
from
exactly
home
and-
and
they
say
it
almost
feels
like
we're
in
the
same
room,
pretty
much
as
we're
having
discussion,
which
is
awesome.
C
Absolutely
yes,
yes,
yes,
and-
and
this
is
to
build
software
like
this,
we
can't
be
using
the
organizational
structures
of
20
years
ago.
You
need
different
thinking
in
different
organizations
and
different.
You
know
title
it
whatever
you
want,
but
the
skill
set
have
to
be
more
an
amalgamist
and
what
it
used
to
be,
and
that's.
B
Why
this
works
absolutely
absolutely
really
good!
Thank
you
DSA
for
this
one
and
for
those
who
are
watching
and
listening
or
watching
and
listening
or
whatever,
we'll
jump
on
the
on
the
weekly
articles
right
after
this.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
very
much
excellent.
Thank
you,
DC
for
the
interview
and
discussion
and
then
we'll
jump
on
the
weekly
article.
B
So
let
me
share
my
screen
and
we'll
start
from
there,
and
it
is
that
button
this
week,
and
here
we
go
so
quite
a
few
articles
from
Microsoft
done
a
few
videos
and
articles
than
from
the
community
after
that
and
few
pointers
to
talk
about
this
week.
Here
we
go
so
first
of
all
on
the
Microsoft
teams
blog,
we
have
again
the
monthly
summary
related
on
what's
new
in
the
Microsoft
teams
and
again,
there's
a
really
really
really
awesome.
B
So
basically,
how
does
the
phone
and
calls
work
in
the
Microsoft
teams
and
how
how
all
of
this
actually
works
in
practice,
so
typical
set
of
questions
what
people
might
be
considering
or
have
well,
not
aware
related
on
the
Microsoft
teams,
phone
capabilities,
good
point
I'm,
not
actually,
why,
if
they're
using
this
pretty
much
ever,
but
there
are
actually
good
features
in
here
and
a
good
capability
is
to
double
check
as
well.
Now
we
also
had
a
blog
post
from
Chef
Chen
on
mix
of
teams.
B
Performance
improves
with
the
framework
upgrades,
and
this
really
comes
back
on
and
the
showing
the
containers
the
Investments
we're
doing
on
the
performance
side,
which
might
not
be
actually
that
visible,
always
there.
There
is
a
lot
of
lot
of
our
engineering
efforts
being
done
on
making
the
overall
experience
in
Microsoft
straight
65
and
more
optimal
and
more
faster.
B
Then
we
had
a
update
on
the
SharePoint
side,
so
SharePoint
recognize
Pit,
Stop,
October
2020
as
well-
and
this
is
not
just
about
SharePoint,
so
there's
a
lot
of
actually
updates
related
on
Microsoft,
Viva,
OneDrive,
Divine
cage
and
so
on.
So
there's
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
cool
capabilities
which
have
been
released
and
a
great
monthly
post
showcasing
all
of
the
goodness.
What's
happening,
simple
things
like
office
app
is
now
coming:
Microsoft
365
amp.
We
talked
about
that
one
in
the
past
as
well.
B
B
On
the
developer
side,
we
did
have
a
blog
post
related
on
announcing
a
new
SharePoint
Pages
API
for
Microsoft
graph,
and
this
is
an
announcement
that
is
coming
in
preview
in
November.
So
it's
coming
pretty
soon
by
end
of
November
and
that
one
will
be
in
the
beta
endpoint
and
you
can
do
basic
scenarios
like
get
the
list
of
all
of
the
pages
and
news
get
the
consistent
content
of
the
base
and
reports
create
a
page
publishing
page
and
deleting
bits
and
so
on.
B
So
basic
scenarios
capabilities
are
in
the
Beta
release
and
it
will
be
a
continuous
effort
on
adding
new
features
and
capabilities
to
this
API
endpoint.
If
you
know,
and
if
you
tested
out
the
craft
endpoint
for
SharePoint
pages
in
the
past,
you
probably
saying
that
it's
pretty
limited
and
it
makes
it
quite
hard
to
understand
how
that
existing
API
is
working.
So
all
of
this
will
change
that
API.
So
it's
a
breaking
chain
on
the
chains
on
the
beta
endpoint.
B
By
having
all
of
the
new
capabilities
available,
we
also
had
a
announcement
of
SharePoint
framework
1.16
release
candidate.
It's
a
release
candidates.
This
candidate
is
now
out
since
last
week
on
the
2nd
of
November
and
the
ga
is
happening
in
mid
of
November
I.
Think
there
are
estimators
right
now
is
15th
of
November
or
something
like
that
and,
of
course,
we're
listing
all
of
the
different
capabilities
which
are
part
of
the
1.16
and
the
video
and
referencing
the
videos
where
we
showcase
some
of
these
capabilities
as
well.
B
Now
we
also
had
a
blog
post
from
Tomo
mimura
related
on
customizing
F5
debugging
in
Microsoft
teams
toolkit
for
visual
studio
code.
So
basically,
what
happens
when
I
press
press
the
F5
and
what
are
the
tasks?
What
are
the
things
what's
actually
got
executed
and
how
can
I
modify
the
the
tasks
which
are
happening
as
part
of
that
F5
experience
so
really,
really
cool
blog
post
and
showcasing
the
flexibility
and
the
power
of
the
Microsoft
teams
toolkit
really
really
cool
stuff.
Thank
you
to
Mommy
on
that
one.
B
Then
we
also
had
a
breaking
chance
in
the
Microsoft
craft
insights
API.
So
this
is
a
really
small
change,
but
it
is
a
breaking
chain.
So,
basically,
in
the
existing
V
0
1.0
endpoint,
there
has
been
an
inconsistent
experience
of
getting
a
site
or
OneDrive
business.
Currently,
the
the
API
for
specific
API
property
has
been
always
providing
a
site,
but
like
document
that
like
it
should
be-
and
it
is
starting
to
now
provide
also
one
track.
B
So
how
would
I
actually
register
my
custom
form
customizer
for
a
SharePoint
list,
which
is
overriding
the
native
experience,
and
this
is
done
in
the
content
type
level
and
in
the
content
type
in
the
list
and
as
a
associate
properties
in
and
then
you
can
show
a
custom
form
which
is
rendered
whenever
you
create
an
item
edit,
an
item
or
whatever,
whatever
you're
looking
into
doing
within
a
list
level,
there
was
an
interesting
blog
post,
also
from
prashram
related
on
the
IE
11..
So
this
should
be
already.
Everybody
should
be
knowing
this
already
now.
B
A11
is
completely
deprecated.
You
should
not
be
using
that
it's
something
which
we
don't
recommend.
Anyone
to
anybody
to
use.
We
haven't
actually
recommended
it
to
be
used
for
many
many
many
many
years,
even
and
starting
from
January
2023,
the
the
in
the
SharePoint
and
OneDrive
there's
going
to
be
a
heart
block
for
IE
11,
which
basically
is
saying
shown
here.
So
there's
going
to
be
a
no
no
nothing's
going
to
work
here
with
i11.
B
B
You
just
need
to
go
to
the
message
center
in
the
tenant
administrator
ux
and
you
can
actually
have
a
look
on
all
of
the
upcoming
features
and
announcements
which
are
coming
or
rolling
out
within
Microsoft
365,
and
this
show
basically
just
covers
always
the
latest
announcements
which
are
happening
there.
For
example,
changes
on
navigation
power,
power
plant,
live
in
teams,
Viva
admin
experience
and
so
on.
So
a
lot
of
lot
of
a
lot
of
new
features.
B
Episode
229
extending
Azure
80
objects
with
Microsoft
craft
and
skate.
My
extensions
he's
been
showing
the
schema
extensions
now
with
quite
a
few
videos,
and
this
is
a
really
great
short
videos
explaining
the
different
capabilities
and
different
options
which
are
available
so
really
really
awesome
series
of
understanding.
Why,
and
why
would
you
use
this
camera
extensions
and
what
do
they
actually
do?
He
explains
them
and
then
there's
always
a
live
demo
on
making
things
happen
and
how
does
it
actually
work
behind
of
the
scenes
so
really
really
awesome
stuff.
Thank
you.
B
Paul
on
that
one
now
Shane
Young
I
had
a
new
video
related
on
power,
apps
and
automate
Solutions
and
in
we
are
environment
variables
in
SharePoint.
So
how
would
you
take
advantage
of
those
environment
variables
for
SharePoint
in
your
powerapps
and
automate
Solutions,
so
really
really
cool
scenario,
beautiful
long
video,
but
his
videos
are
super
great
on
learning
the
basics
capabilities
and
within
the
Power
Platform.
B
So
thank
you,
Shane
on
that
one
now,
Giuliano
De
Luca
had
a
new
video
also
on
how
to
use
actionable
messages
in
Outlook
with
power
automate
and
that's
actually
really
cool
as
well.
So
how
can
you
post
those
actionable
messages
in
Outlook
or
react
on
the
actionable
messages
in
the
Outlook
as
well?
So
what
would
be
the
scenarios
and
stories
and
capabilities
for
this
kind
of
automation?
So
basically,
what
it
means
is
that
you
can
actually
have
in
a
bit
more
polished
experience
in
the
Outlook.
B
B
Now
Risa
durrani
had
a
new
blog
post
around
error
handling
in
power
automate
flow.
So
how
would
you
actually
do
that?
How
would
you
get
those
catch?
Those
errors
super
super
important
thing
as
well,
because
we
want
to
make
sure
that
if
there
are
unexpected
situations
and
exceptions,
you
deal
with
those
gracefully
so
really
really
cool.
Thank
you
Arisa
on
that
one
and
then
Laura,
roaches
and
Julian
jobson
had
a
new
power
hour
and
this
is
a
live
session
which
is
then
OS
recorded
afterwards.
B
B
And
then
the
final
thing?
What
I
wanted
to
call
out
is
is
that
you
should
be
OS
on
a
weekly
basis
following
up
on
what's
happening
in
the
communitygase.org,
and
this
is
the
centralized
location
we're
going
to
always
find
what
are
the
upcoming
events
and
what
kind
of
events
are
available
worldwide.
So
some
of
the
events
are
virtual.
B
So
thank
you
for
that
really
really
cool
cool
stuff
and,
as
we
can
see,
there's
even
stuff
scheduled
already
for
June
10th
2023,
so
you
can
see
what's
coming
in
the
spring,
also
for
many
many
events
across
the
world,
but
that's
all
we're
gonna
do
actually
now
today
related
on
BMP
weekly.
Thank
you
DC,
one
more
time
for
joining
us
and
while
deck,
hopefully,
you
will
feel
better
for
next
week
and
so
we'll
catch
you
back
on
the
episode,
187.,
but
I
think
that's
it
for
now.
So
thank
you
for
watching
listening.
B
Please
use
hashtag
BMP
weekly
in
the
Twitter.
If
you
are
in
Twitter
and
and
post
or
if
you
have
new
content
which
which
we
you
would
like
to
ask
to
cover
within
the
show
as
well
and
DC.
Once
again,
thank
you
for
that.
One
and
we'll
see
you
hopefully
or
you'll,
hear
us
hopefully
on
next
week,
cheers
bye.