►
Description
Privacy is one of the defining challenges of our age, in crypto and the larger tech world. In this session, we invited some industry leaders to discuss the impact that privacy makes in our day-to-day lives.
🔦 Featuring 🔦
Avichal Garg – Managing Partner, Electric Capital
Jill Carlson – Principal, Slow Ventures & Mina Foundation Board Member
Ash Egan – Partner, Accomplice VC
Emre Tekisalp – VP of Business Development & Operations, O(1) Labs
What is Illuminate?
Illuminate is a free virtual event that took place on March 28th, 2021, and which celebrated Mina’s mainnet launch and exciting protocol milestones.
Participants heard from a range of blockchain experts, industry leaders, and community members about Genesis and the road ahead. The one-day event featured panels and sessions on Mina’s use cases, advancements in zk-SNARKs, Staking-as-a-Service, industry insights and so much more. Illuminate is also a big thank-you to Mina’s vibrant community, who have made incredible contributions to the network over the past two years.
📧 Sign-up here to be the first to find out about the next illuminate conference: https://bit.ly/MinaNewsletter
💥 Follow us on Crowdcast: http://bit.ly/MinaCrowdcast
What is Mina?
Mina is the world’s lightest blockchain, powered by participants. Rather than apply brute computing force, Mina uses advanced cryptography and recursive zk-SNARKs to design an entire blockchain that is and always will be about 22kb, the size of a couple of tweets, ushering in a new era of blockchain accessibility. With its unique privacy features and ability to connect to any website, Mina is building a private gateway between the real world and crypto—and the secure, democratic future we all deserve. Mina is stewarded by the Mina Foundation, a non-profit organization.
A
All
right,
hello
again,
everyone
welcome
to
our
next
session
about
the
future
of
privacy
and
technology.
So
I
think
this
is
sequence
well,
because
we
were
just
talking
about
how
snaps
in
power
private
use
cases
and
private
data,
and
it's
very
important
and
let's
zoom
out
a
bit
away
from
crypto,
because
privacy
is
one
of
the
defining
challenges
of
our
age
in
crypto,
but,
more
importantly,
in
the
larger
tech
world,
and
I
think
it's
important
that
we
recognize
this.
A
You
know
everyone
has
read
many
disaster
scenarios
around
the
world
that
mess
up
with
people's
finances,
their
reputation,
their
privacy,
their
personal
lives.
So
it's
very
very
important
that
we're
talking
about
this
and
I'd
like
to
thank
our
panelists
so
much
for
joining
us
jill
of
egl
ash.
It's
great
to
be
here
with
you.
Can
you
to
start
things
off
with?
Please
tell
the
audience
briefly
about
yourselves
how
you
initially
got
introduced
to
mina
and
what
you
think
makes
privacy
fundamentally
important
jill.
Maybe
let's
start
with
you.
B
You,
know:
recursive
snarks
and
the
ability
to
to
solve
this
problem
of
of
really
enabling
blockchain
technology
and
cryptocurrencies
to
genuinely
be
powered
by
participants
and,
as
I
got
to
know
them
sort
of
talking
to
them
more
and
more.
You
know
one
of
the
questions
that
they
really
grappled
with
and
I
really
grappled
with
was
the
question
of
okay.
B
Ultimately,
yes,
it's
about
scalability,
it's
about
participation
in
the
community
and
so
on
and
so
forth,
but
that
to
me
has
been
always
at
the
heart
of
what
meena
is
about
so
really
excited
to
be
here.
Post-Mainnet
launch,
it's
still
surreal
to
me
that
that
it's
actually
happened
but
really
exciting
to
be
here.
Talking
about
all
of
that
today,
thanks
emery.
C
Sure
good
to
see
you
thank
you
for
having
us.
My
name
is
avicho.
I'm
a
co-founder
and
partner
at
electric
capital,
we're
an
early
stage,
venture
firm
that
focuses
on
crypto
and
blockchain.
How
did
I
first
get
introduced
to
mina?
I
met
evan
and
izzy,
probably
around
the
same
time
as
jill
20
and
2017-ish,
something
like
that
about
three
and
a
half
four
years
ago
and
and
was
sort
of
blown
away
by
the
ideas.
C
I
think
you
know
succinct
blockchain,
that's
that's
highly
scalable,
I
think
you
know
distributed
systems
are
only
as
resilient
as
they
are
distributed,
and
so
I
think
that
makes
a
ton
of
sense
to
me
and
was
a
much
needed
breakthrough
and
then
yeah.
Echoing
a
lot
of
what
jill
said.
I
think
privacy
is
one
of
these
things
that
you
know
we
were
actually
just
having
a
conversation
that
ash
jill-
and
I
were
just
having
a
conversation
about
this
and
I
think
privacy
is
one
of
these
things.
C
It
is
how
many
use
cases
are
there,
where
privacy
really
matters
and
what
is
the
dollar
impact
of
those
use
cases,
and
I
would
argue
that
on
a
dollar
weighted
basis,
privacy
is
actually
way
way
way
more
important
than
most
people
would
intuitively
think,
and
so
you
know,
I
suspect
that
they're
going
to
be
many.
Many
important
use
cases
that
can
be
built
on
on
mina
that
between
the
sort
of
decentralization
and
assisting
blockchain
plus
privacy,
that
just
won't
be
possible
in
other
places,
and
I
think
that
that's
pretty
exciting.
D
Yeah
good
to
see
everyone
here,
looking
forward
to
this
conversation
today
I
was
the
last
of
the
party
last
at
the
time
coda
party
so
met
izzy
and
evan
back
in
2018.
The
genesis
of
that
was,
I
was
at
consensus,
sort
of
looking
into
the
ethereum
ecosystem
on
the
investing
side,
24
7.,
as
I
took
a
step
back
from
consensus.
D
You
know
I
went
out
and
just
read
everything
that
was
happening
beyond
the
theorem
ecosystem
and
I
came
across
you
know
this
concept
of
the
succinct,
blockchain
and
sort
of
saw.
The
tagline
of
the
entire
blockchain
is
the
size
of
a
few
tweets,
and
that
just
blew
my
mind.
So
whenever
I'm
investing
the
lens
I
look
at
things
from
is,
you
know:
is
this
going
to
create
entirely
new
markets?
Does
this
transform
the
status
quo
and
a
lot
of
this?
You
know
companies
or
protocols
that
are
able
to
do
that.
D
It's
built
off
of
a
new
technology
or
a
development
sort
of
further
of
an
existing
technology,
and
that
was
exactly
apparent
with
you
know:
evan
and
izzy's
vision
and
yeah
honestly
fantastic
to
see
how
far
we've
commented
and
it's
really
just
the
beginning.
So
I
think
privacy,
you
can
look
at
it
from
so
many
different
lens
from
sort
of
financial
aspect.
You
know
informational.
D
You
know
how
you're
interacting,
how
you're
sort
of
interacting
yourself
and
then
sort
of
the
companies
you
work
at
you
know
it's
it's
both
retail
corporate
institutional,
there's,
so
many
different
lenses
to
it
and
I
feel
like
with
you
know,
we're
unlocking
a
lot
of
those
potential
use
cases
and
just
sort
of
looking
at
the
speakers.
From
earlier
I
mean
just
some
of
the
applications.
We
were
talking
about.
Just
absolutely
fascinating,
so
you
know
very
excited
to
see.
A
Awesome
yeah,
so
maybe
to
summarize
privacy
is
important.
First
of
all,
because
it's
about
people,
it
impacts
all
of
us.
It
is
a
huge
market,
as
avichol
said,
probably
way
way
larger
than
many
other
people
think,
and
also
it
unlocks
a
lot
of
use
cases.
So
you
know
all
reasons
to
be
excited
by
themselves,
but
the
three
of
them
combination.
It's
huge.
How
much
impact
this
is
gonna
have
so
maybe
first
start
diving
into
where
we
are
with
privacy
and
crypto.
A
Let's
start
from
the
smallest
subset
that
we
got,
and
I
like
to
do
a
bit
of
the
state
of
the
union
approach
to
privacy
within
crypto.
Crypto
blockchains
is
supposed
to
be
this
self-sovereign
private,
equitable
value
layer.
We
as
a
society
need-
and
everyone
has
to
use-
are
you
happy
with
where
we
are
ash?
Maybe
let's
start
with
you
this
time.
D
You
look
at
the
z
to
z
transactions,
sort
of
how
that's
grown
within
the
zcash
community.
You
look
at
what's
happening,
sort
of
that
layer,
two
within
the
ethereum
ecosystem.
You
know
with
tornado
amongst
aztec,
amongst
others.
You
know,
but
I
and
then
I
think
in
terms
of
applications
and
why
you
know
I'm
so
excited
for
for
this
conference
and
what
mina
is
building.
D
Is
this
is
there's
a
ton
of
white
space
for
what
these
potential
applications
can
be,
and
so
we're
so
much
further
ahead
than
we
were
when
I'm
just
starting
the
space
in
2015?
You
know
before
sort
of
just
the
privacy
protocols
at
the
ed
sort
of
player
one
and
now
we're
moving
up
towards
the
application
era,
and
so
I
think
it's
for
sort
of
the
masses
to
interact
with
privacy
focused
applications.
D
Now
is
the
time
to
be
building
in
that
space,
and
so
I
have
been
impressed
by
the
infrastructure
what's
been
built
out
today,
things
that
I
thought
frankly
were
impossible
to
do.
You
know
just
to
hear
about
snarks
and
starks
and-
and
you
know,
sort
of
intercommunication
all
these
things,
but
I
think
it's
about
to
get
a
lot
more
exciting.
So
I'm
continually
optimistic,
but
you
know
I'm
getting
more
optimistic,
just
looking
at
how
how
large
this
audience
is.
C
That's
great
yeah,
I
think
it's
a
great
great
question
I
was
just
thinking
about,
I
think,
there's
kind
of
three
buckets
of
things
I've
been
thinking
about,
so
one
is
kind
of
like
what's
possible.
The
second
is:
where
are
we
today,
and
the
third
is
kind
of
where
we're
going
and
and
to
ash's
point
I
think,
what's
really
amazing
is
that
if
you
look
at
the
history
of
cryptography
and
privacy
and
a
lot
of
this
research,
a
lot
of
these
concepts
have
been
around
for
a
long
time.
C
You
know
different
approaches
to
building
blockchains,
whether
it's
you
know
zero
knowledge
to
sync
blockchains
or
mimblewimble,
or
you
know,
even
even
bitcoin,
adopting
different
forms
of
privacy
beyond
zero
knowledge,
and
so
I
think
you
know
the
profit
motive.
That's
been
created
by
cryptocurrencies
as
an
accelerant
to
the
fundamental
cryptography
is
pretty
amazing.
It
reminds
me
a
lot
of
what
happened:
kind
of
on
the
internet
with
with
networking
and
and
you
know,
other
forms
of
sort
of
research
being
accelerated
because
the
internet
just
made
those
things
possible.
C
So
I
think
that's
that's
amazing
and
then
kind
of
where
are
we?
I
think
we've
just
started
to
scratch
the
surface
of
turning
those
research
concepts
into
practical
applications,
because
it
takes
a
long
time
for
that
research
to
make
its
way
into
production,
because
the
number
of
people
who
understand
this
stuff
is
quite
small.
C
It's
not
that
many
people,
and
so
it's
gonna,
take
a
while
for
all
this
stuff
to
sort
of
come
to
fruition
and
I
think
we're
just
starting
to
scratch
the
surface
of
that,
but
if
it
parallels
and
it
sort
of
touches,
I
think
on
the
third
point
it's
like:
where
are
we
going?
I
think
if
it
parallels
what
happened
on
the
internet,
you
know
if
you
look
at
what
happened
on
the
internet.
C
We
started
with
sort
of
openhcp
and
we
slowly
made
our
way
to
https
and
we
we
became
you
know
de
facto
and
encrypted
on
most
things.
I
suspect.
A
similar
thing
happens
in
crypto
is
the
first
wave
of
stuff
is
sort
of
open
and
then,
as
the
as
the
technology
and
implementations
catch
up,
we
will
move
sort
of
de
facto
private
and
that
transition
is
going
to
take.
C
You
know
several
years,
but
the
people
who
are
sort
of
sitting
in
that
new
world
already,
I
think,
are
the
best
positions
like
if
you're
already
set
up
for
that
new
world,
where
things
are
sort
of
default,
private
or
can
be
default.
Private
and
those
privacy
primitives
exist
on
chain.
Already
for
developers
to
take
advantage
of
you're
you're
sort
of
you
know
you
skated
to
where
the
puck
is
going
to
be,
because
I
think
that's
where
the
world
is
headed,
but
I
think
we're
still
in
a
very
early
stage.
C
I
guess
direct
to
answer
your
questions,
I'm
not
thrilled
with
where
we
are
today,
because
I
think
there's
a
long
way
to
go
to
where
I
think
we
should
be,
but
I'm
also
very
impressed
at
how
far
we've
come
in
the
last
five
years,
because
the
state
of
the
research
has
advanced
so
so
quickly.
So
I'm
very
excited
for
where
we'll
be
five
years
from
now,
because
all
this
research
will
get
will
get
implemented
over
the
next
five
years.
B
Yeah,
I
would
just
I
would
just
drive
that
point
home
even
further,
as
I
think
that
something
that
even
I,
as
someone
who
operates
in
this
space
full
time
very
rarely
take
the
time
to
appreciate,
is
just
how
far
the
underlying
research
and
science-
and
you
know
not
to
mention.
Of
course,
the
implementations
of
all
of
these
things
have
come
over
a
very
short
span
of
time
and,
to
a
large
extent
we
have.
B
You
know
the
sort
of
crypto
hype
cycles
to
thank
for
all
of
that.
You
know
whether
it's
money
and
talent
pouring
into
the
space
or
what
have
you.
But
you
know
if
you
look
at
bitcoin
when
it
was
first
created
whatever
back
in
2008
2009,
a
lot
of
what
is
now
possible
in
terms
of
privacy
today
was
not
even
possible,
then,
and
so
bitcoin
came
to
market
with
this
sort
of
promise
of
an
anonymous
or
pseudonymous
cryptocurrency.
B
B
I
think
that
if
you
talk
to
your
average
person
who
doesn't
work
full-time
in
the
space,
they
often
still
think
that
bitcoin
is
private,
anonymous
and
all
of
these
things,
and
so
that's
something
that
we
as
an
industry
have
had
to
overcome,
is
figuring
out
how
to
communicate
the
nuances
around
all
of
this.
But
then
again
you
know
to
to
vitol's
point
and
ash
touched
on
this
too.
Today.
B
All
of
this
is
possible
in
terms
of
privacy,
implementations,
and
I
think,
if
I
were
to
predict,
you
know
five,
six,
seven,
eight
nine
ten
years
from
now.
I
think
that
we'll
be
talking
about
zero
knowledge,
proofs
and
and
snarks
and
starks,
and
all
of
these
privacy
technologies
and
implementations
the
same
way
that
people
were
talking
about
the
blockchain.
B
You
know
three
four
five
years
ago
as
this
technology
that
has
value
in
and
of
itself,
not
just
as
something
that
can
be
implemented
within
a
cryptocurrency
system
and
provide
really
real
value,
whether
it's
to
individuals
who
are
worried
about
their
privacy,
whether
that's
to
enterprises
who
can
use
these
things
in
order
to
you
know
even
be
compliant
often
privacy
is-
is
conflated
with
non-compliance.
But
there's
a
lot
here
that
can
be
built
out.
I
saw
someone
in
the
chat
actually
talking
about
a
kycaml
system
built
out
on
this.
B
I
think
that
that's
actually
a
great
use
case,
and
I
think
that
that's
that's
we're
gonna
see
just
this
flourishing
of
applications
and
experimentation
built
out
on
these
privacy
technologies
that
weren't
even
possible
today.
So
the
quick
answer
emery,
if
I'm
happy
with
where
the
state
of
the
world
is
today,
I
am,
but
only
because
I
can
appreciate
how
far
we've
come
in
really
not
a
long
span
of
time
on
on
the
front
of
what
we're
even
technologically
capable
of.
A
Yeah,
thank
you
all,
and
it's
it's
certainly
crazy
how
how
fast
this
all
has
accelerated
like
personally
as
well
like
I
I
have
been
also
in
this
industry
before
I
started
working
with
oa1
labs.
I'd
never
heard
of
zero
knowledge
proofs
and
would
not
have
heard
about
it
at
all
if
it
weren't
for
some
of
the
crazy
implications
and
the
research
going
into
this
space.
So
there's
a
lot
to
do,
but
we're
getting
there
fast
and
that's
the
good
news.
A
But
let's
talk
about
how
we're
getting
there
right,
because
it's
it's
one
thing
to
say:
yes,
we'll
get
there
in
five
years,
but
let's
talk
about
how
and
jill,
maybe
let's,
let's
start
with
you
so
you're
you're,
also
the
co-founder
of
the
open
money
initiative
and
have
also
personally
done
a
lot
of
research
into
the
use
of
crypto
and
emerging
economies.
How
can
crypto
and
this
technology
empower
people
in
those
economies
based
based
on
what
you've
seen
what?
What
do?
A
B
Yeah,
no
absolutely
so.
I've
had
the
privilege
of
working
with
some
populations
that
are
on
the
most
extreme
end
of
the
spectrum
in
terms
of
their
privacy
needs.
You
know,
people
who
are
fearful
of
targeting
by
their
own
government,
even
if
they're
found
to
be
using
cryptocurrency
and
engaging
cryptocurrency,
and
you
know
a
lot
of
these
people
are
in
places
and
markets
like
venezuela,
like
cuba,
like
iran,
you
know
very
repressive
regimes,
places
that
have
experienced
inflation,
capital
controls
all
of
these
sorts
of
things.
B
You
know
give
an
ip
address
and
then
give
an
individual
that
goes
for
bitcoin
miners,
like
I've
spoken
to
bitcoin
miners
in
places
like
venezuela,
where
the
government
literally
uses
spikes
in
energy
uses
usage
rather
on
the
grid
in
order
to
track
down.
You
know
what
neighborhood
people
are
in,
who
are
mining,
bitcoin
things
like
this,
and
so
that's
something
I
think
is
actually
really
worth
touching
on
here
in
terms
of
when
we
talk
about
privacy
really
narrowing
in
on
what
we
mean
by
privacy,
because
there
are
all
of
these
different
angles
to
it.
B
So
that's
that's
really
heartening
to
me,
but
yeah.
It's
been
challenging
at
times
over
the
years
in
in
having
these
conversations
with
people
who
have
often
times
learned
the
hard
way
because
they
heard
oh
bitcoin
is
anonymous,
and
then
you
know
learned
the
hard
way
that
in
fact
it's
not
and
and
in
fact
their
usage
of
bitcoin
or
whatever
it
is,
can
be
traced
right
back
to
them.
A
A
C
Yeah
great
question:
no,
I
don't
think
there's
a
magical
solution
and
I
you
know
all
these
things
have
different
tradeoffs
right.
It's
like
often
you're
trading
off
between
speed
and
and
scalability,
and
throughput
versus
privacy
and
user
experience,
and-
and
these
are
not
all
strict
trade-offs-
and
I
mean
that's-
that's
really
the
beauty
of
technology
right.
It's
like
technology,
as
it
advances,
makes
things
that
were
previously
trade
off
no
longer
a
trade-off.
C
C
Like
you
know,
if
you
look
at
the
internet,
even
something
as
simple
as
social
networks,
which
are
also
very
network
effect
driven
kind
of
product,
I
think
there
was
a
there
was
a
time
where
people
said
there's
going
to
be
one
massive
social
network
that
wins
and
and
that's
like
the
social
network,
everybody
will
use,
and
that
was
only
half
correct.
You
know
it
turns
out.
C
You
have
facebook
and
you
have
tik-tok
and
you
have
snap
and
you
have
twitter
and
you
have
telegram
and
you
just
you
have
whatsapp,
you
run
down
the
list
and
you
realize
that,
actually,
when
the
market
size
is
three
billion
people-
and
in
this
case
with
with
cryptocurrencies
and
blockchain
technology,
it's
not
only
three
billion
people,
but
it's
all
of
the
businesses
and
all
of
the
financial
institutions
in
the
world
odds
are
they're
going
to
be
many.
Many
winners
and
there's
going
to
be,
you
know
it's
not
going
to
be
winning
fix.
C
All
there
might
be
one
big
winner,
like
maybe
bitcoin
or
ethereum,
is
a
big
winner,
but
there
are
likely
to
be
many.
Many
winners
that
solve
different
problems
in
different
ways,
with
different
trade-offs
or
different
kinds
of
users,
because
there
might
be
300
million
people
that
want
a
certain
set
of
trade-offs
and,
and
you
know,
they'll
find
their
product
for
them.
C
So
our
approach
basically
has
been
the
market
size
here,
probably
is
10
to
100
x,
bigger
than
most
people
intuitively
are
getting
their
heads
around,
and
so
all
of
these
all
of
these
have
have
a
shot
at
winning
and
they
actually
actually
all
help
each
other,
because
the
more
people
that
are
in
this
ecosystem
that
think
about
these
things
and
say
well
in
this
case,
this
trade-off
makes
sense.
In
this
case,
the
straight
off
makes
sense,
it's
actually
very
additive
and
they
all
sort
of
flow
back
and
forth
to
each
other.
C
A
A
Suddenly
everyone
realized-
oh
my
god,
the
minute
I
use
metamask,
I'm
sharing
my
public
address
to
all
the
websites
that
are
out
there
and
everyone
is
tracking
all
of
my
transactions
and
but
but
then
they
started
fixing
it
right,
metamask
upgraded
itself.
There
have
been
protocol
upgrades
that
help
with
this
issue
and
ash.
Maybe
maybe
going
to
your
experience
you,
you
were
very
early
on
at
consensus,
one
of
the
major
ethereum
contributors.
A
D
Yeah,
I
yeah,
and
I
think
it's
you
have
these
forcing
functions
whenever
you
have
a
large
behavioral
change.
You
have,
you
know,
typically
a
small
group
of
people
that
are
going
to
be
quite
vocal
and
then
just
over
time,
whether
it's
sort
of
a
macro
event
or
just
this
loud
minority
that
comes
out
and
just
sort
of
changes,
the
status
quo
and
how
things
are
handled.
D
You
know,
I
think,
with
cambridge
analytica,
there's
been
a
number
of
these
sort
of
macro
factors
over
the
last
few
years
and
it's
you
know,
sort
of
led
to
signals
adoption.
I
I
mean
today.
I
continue
to
see
more
and
more
of
my
just
regular
friends
from
growing
up
or
from
college
or
whatever
may
be
adopting
signal.
I
think
you
know
you
look
at
just
the
growth
in
privacy
protocols.
D
You
know
you
use
10
20
different
wallets,
you
know
you
don't
tweet
out
your
e
s
name
and
tie
it
to
your
public
identity,
and
I
think
we're
going
to
continue
to
see
sort
of
iterations
on
what
the
norm
might
look
like,
but
you're
going
to
constantly
have
these
sort
of
smaller
groups
that
are
that
are
driving
that
eventually,
until
it
reaches
the
status
quo,
and
I
I
think
just
going
back
to
the
prior
point.
You
know
these.
D
These
blockchains
are
still
even
sort
of
the
oldest
blockchain
bitcoins,
we're
still
in
a
nascent
state
here
and
so
we're
gonna
constantly
be
around.
You
know
what
is
the
future
looking
like
and
the
great
thing
is,
you
have
a
lot
of
extremely
bright
people
that
are
shaping
this
future
and
folks.
You
know
that
are
sort
of
within
this
conference
that
are,
you
know,
helping
to
shape
up
what
that
status
quo
is
going
to
look
like
and
a
lot
of
different
routes
can
win.
You
know,
so
it
could
be
separated
by
geo.
D
A
A
What
do
you
guys
have
any
solutions
that
we
here
in
the
crypto
world
are
maybe
heavy
users
or
or
or
all
believe
that
you
know
we'll
shape
the
future
that
you
think
will
trickle
out
and
get
everyone
else
start
to
use
them,
whether
or
not
they're
interested
in
crypto
and
you
know
feel
free
to
take
it
at
a
random
order.
I
guess,
let's,
let's
shake
things
up
a
bit
this
time.
C
Well,
I
mean
I
I
think
my
take
on
it
is
I
mean
I
think
all
of
this
stuff
is
going
to
go
mainstream
rather
whether
it's
bitcoin
or
decentralized
payments,
peer-to-peer
currencies,
d5
platforms
like
all
of
this
stuff,
is
going
to
go
mainstream.
So
in
a
sense,
it's
less
about
it's
less
about
the
world
sort
of
adopting
things
that
are
cryptocurrencies
and
the
cryptocurrencies
and
blockchain
and
privacy
tech
just
becoming
the
world.
C
So
by
analogy
is
sort
of
like
people
didn't
like
companies
and
people
didn't
adopt
mobile
apps
mobile
apps
just
became
the
thing
that
you
did
and
they
sort
of
disappeared
into
the
background
right.
So
today,
if
you're
starting
a
company-
and
you
went
to
an
investor-
and
you
said-
hey,
I'm
starting
a
mobile
company
they'd
be
like
well
obviously
like.
If
you
weren't
doing
that,
what
the
hell
would
you
be
doing
right
like
because
everything
is
mobile,
and
so
I
think,
that's
kind
of
what
happens
is
sort
of.
C
If
things
are
successful,
they
just
they
sort
of
eat
up
the
world
and
then
they
disappear.
And
so
what
I
expect
happens
over
the
next
decade
is
all
of
these
things
that
we're
talking
about
we'll
just
sort
of
back
into
fintech
and
creator
economy.
You
know
creators
are
coming
on
board
and
saying:
hey.
Look.
C
Crypto
and
blockchain
eats
up
the
world,
and
then
it
just
fades
into
the
background,
and
we
don't
even
talk
about
it
anymore,
like
it
just
becomes
the
thing
and
it
becomes
so
it
just
permeates
everything
and
that
point
you
stop
talking
about
it
in
a
sense,
that's
kind
of
what
I
think
will
happen
is
that
people
won't
even
adopt
it.
It'll
just
become
imbued
into
everything.
B
I
think
that's
a
great
point,
and
I
think
you
know
we
already
see
that
happening,
whether
it's
with
nba
top
shots
right
nfts.
I
don't
want
to
go
down
a
whole
nft
rabbit
hole
here,
but
it's
it's
a
very
real
phenomenon.
Where
you
know
months
ago,
I
started
seeing
chatter
about
this,
whether
it
was
on
tick,
tock
or
other
places
in
social
media,
and
you
know,
people
weren't
talking
about
it
in
the
context
of
oh.
This
is
a
blockchain
thing.
D
D
You
know
you
can
look
at
social
networks
all
it's
sort
of
this
whole
trickle
effect
in
terms
of
eventually,
you
know
underpinning
all
of
internet
interactions,
and
it's
not
just
existing
use
cases.
Existing
applications
we're
going
to
see
entirely
new
markets,
marketplaces,
applications
that
are
birthed
out
of
crypto
as
as
sort
of
the
native
underpinning
to
this
next
wave,
and
so
I
think
it's
really
even
hard
to
ideate
on
what
those
applications
are
going
to
be.
You
know
it's
that's
one
of
the
most
exciting
parts
of
it.
D
You
go
back
to
the
sort
of
the
internet
era
and
you
know
what
was
happening
with
netscape
and
the
browser,
and
you
know
you
couldn't
even
sort
of
hypothesize
facebook
or
twitter
or
some
of
the
sort
of
the
killer
applications
that
came
around
and
I
think
we're
at
a
similar
point
in
crypto
privacy
being
one
of
those
chief
enablers
to
this.
No,
this
whole
new
set
of
applications
so
really
exciting
time
to
be
in
this
space.