►
Description
SFBW19 - Playing to Win: Creating the Right Incentives for Competitive Testnets
Panelists:
Brandon Kase, Coda
Zaki Manian, Tendermint
Ben Golub, Storj
Illia Polosukhin, NEAR
Ofer Rotem, Collider Ventures
San Francisco Blockchain Week: https://sfblockchainweek.io/
A
So
we
have
Brian
from
coda.
Brian
coming
up,
got
Brandon.
Sorry,
sorry
did
I
see
Brian,
that's
alright!
Sorry
I'm
excited
I'm
excited
to
be
here
with
you
guys.
You
guys
want
to
make
money
from
test
nets,
so
it's
not
even
magnet
and
you
guys
want
to
make
money.
Don't
you
Zacky
from
temperament
come
on
stage
and
Ben
from
storage
and
it
was
previously
from
docker.
Did
you
guys
notice
that
no,
that
and
Ilya
from
near
protocol
Bravo
yay.
A
B
Yeah,
so
my
name
is
Ilya
before
kind
of
jump
into
blockchain
I've
been
working
for
about
ten
years
in
mission
learning
so
have
a
very
different
view
and
I
jumped
in
blockchain
only
14
months
ago,
just
for
context.
So
a
little
bit
different
view
from
many
other
folks
who
are
in
blockchain
for
a
while.
B
We
are
building
what
we
really
hope
will
be
the
most
usable
platform
to
build
applications
on
and
not
just
in
blockchain,
but
ideally
kind
of
across
the
web
as
well-
and
you
know
to
do
that-
we
build
a
smart
car
to
the
platform
we
have
sharding.
We
have
follows
a
developer,
tooling,
a
bunch
of
other
stuff
so
check
it
out
all.
C
A
C
C
Exactly
that's
it
yeah,
so
I
was
part
of
this.
I
was
CEO
of
docker,
which
is
no
one's,
the
biggest
open
source
projects,
a
part
of
that
SEO
cluster,
which
was
open
for
storage.
We
sold
the
Red
Hat
plaque,
so
early
social
networking
companies
hold
to
Comcast
and
then
ran
a
really
large
payments
and
security
business
at
Verisign
now
I'm
at
storage,
which,
when
I
go
home
for
Thanksgiving
I,
will
describe
to
my
relatives
as
Airbnb
for
disk
drives
and
then
they'll
ask
me
to
fix
their
printer
or
something
like
that.
C
But
you
know,
essentially
what
we've
set
up
is
a
large
decentralized
storage
network.
We're
actually
we've
been
running
a
live
version
of
our
network
since
2017,
which
got
150
petabytes,
we're
now
on
the
next
version
of
our
network,
all
on
the
same
basically
in
the
main
net,
with
the
difference
that,
with
the
one
that
we're
coming
out
with
now,
we
are
enterprise-grade
so
we're
now
not
only
about
I
have
to
a
third
the
price
of
Amazon
Web
Services,
but
are
actually
faster,
100%,
durable
and,
of
course,
all
the
security
benefits
of
being
decentralized.
All.
D
Tender
mint
cosmos
before
our
boss,
I've,
been
doing
block
chains
for
about
five
years.
I
have
been
involved
in
a
bunch
of
different
projects,
I
sort
of
put
together
the
cosmos
hub
may
not
watch
last
year,
which
sort
of
was
the
first
incentivize
test
net.
So
this
is
why
I'm
on
this
panel
got
things
wrong,
got
things
right,
we're
doing
another
one
we're
calling
game
of
zones
I.
Think
so!
That's
me
in
a
nutshell,
all.
E
I'm
Brandon
I
am
head
of
product
engineering
at
oh
of
one
labs
and
yeah
we're
building
Kota.
So
Kota
is
a
layer,
one
protocol
that
uses
recursive,
ZK
snarks
to
compress
the
blockchain
down
to
a
small,
constant
size,
magic.
Thank
you
and
magic
yeah.
It's
it's
really
cool!
So
yeah
and
I-I've
been
recent.
E
A
Good,
it's
a
collaboration
right
you're,
not
competitors,
you're,
all
looking
for
a
clients,
I
assume
right,
apps
to
build
on
you.
So
if
you've
got
guys,
are
developers
so
we're
here
to
talk
about
incentivizing,
test
mates
right.
So
the
first
question
I
have
for
you
guys
is.
We
want
to
have
network
to
be
secure
and
trust
less
and
to
prevent
notes
from
colluding
with
each
other
and
not
to
be
too
homogeneous
right.
A
There
were
projects
that
we're
all
spinning
up,
Amazon
web
servers
inside
their
offices
and
that's
how
they
tested
in
the
test
net
and
that's
another
really
real-world
simulation.
Isn't
it
so
part
of
that
diversity,
diversity,
I'd,
say
it's
a
geographical
diversity
Ness,
because
people
in
different
geographies
are
used
to
program
in
different
way.
They
have
their
different
languages
and
operating
systems
and
the
way
they
do
things-
and
you
guys
are
all
you
guys-
are
all
from
the
US
right.
E
A
B
Mean
I
can
start,
I
mean
I.
Think
I
spent
probably
three
months
out
of
this
year,
not
being
here
and
pretty
much
being
everywhere
else.
So
that's
big
part
of
it
is
actually
going
to
other
communities
and
engaging
them.
I
think
I
definitely
saw
sake
in
every
single
place.
I
went
as
well
probably
traveled
less
than
him.
B
So
yeah,
but
that's
a
part,
is
actually
just
engaging
with
this
community
online
right.
That's
a
big
part
as
well,
because
an
big
part
of
it
there's.
You
know
I'm
ambassadors
who
can
actually
help
you
who
actually
speak
the
local
language.
Part
of
it
is
actually
having
on
your
team.
Some
people
who
speak
different
languages
helps
a
lot
as
well,
so
you
can
spread
the
message
as
well.
You.
B
A
C
C
Get
yes,
I
started
actually
in
a
college
dorm
in
Morehouse
College
in
Atlanta,
so
we
also
didn't
start
out
a
typical
way.
Our
our
network,
actually,
though,
as
peak,
is
like
125,000
different
nodes,
operated
in
180
countries
and
territories,
so
I
think
part
of
what
we,
what
we
did
I
mean.
Obviously
we
did
a
lot
of
the
same
sort
of
best
practices
of
choosing
community
leads
who
are
from
around
the
world
and
making
it
easy
to
localize
the
content.
C
But
I'll
say
we
jumped
right
into
what
sort
of
the
equivalent
of
a
main
net
would
be
right.
We
sort
of
said
the
way.
The
way
to
get
big
and
global
is
to
sort
of
put
on
our
big-boy
pants
or
big-girl
pants
and
set
up
incentives,
and
you
know
be
prepared
for
good
behavior
and
bad
behavior
Byzantine
behavior
and
that's
actually
a
lot
of
how
you
learn
is
also
how
you
get
sort
of
that
geographic
dispersion.
Okay,.
D
Been
doing
it
for
a
long
time,
I
think
the
other
big
component
that
was
like
a
big
part
of
the
cosmos
strategy
was
to
make
the
community
members
that
showed
up
feel
like
members
and
white
that
they
were
fully
part
of
the
team
of
of
the
network,
and
so
you
know
trying
we
we
do
a
lot
of
work
around
trying
to
you
know
not
have
as
much
disparity
between
sort
of
external
contributors
and
internal
contributors,
our
validators
and
our
developers.
We
try
to
treat
them
all
kind
of
very.
D
Similarly,
we
try
to
do
everything
in
the
open
as
pull
requests
and
issues
on
github.
We
try
to
make
sure
that
everybody
can
contribute.
That
is
a
little
bit
of
the
strategy
and,
honestly,
as
I
think
about
this,
you
know
for
a
variety
of
reasons.
Everything
about
like
the
current
way
of
thinking
of
doing
this
is
completely
unsustainable,
ecologically
timewise
destruction
of
personal
lives,
like
all
of
these
things,
so
I'm
spending
a
lot
of
time
right
now.
D
A
E
A
C
Think
one
of
the
I
think
important
points
that
you've
heard
is
that
for
a
lot
of
the
core
members
of
your
community,
the
people
who
are
doing
technical
contributions,
it's
really
a
mistake
to
conflate
incentives
with
motivation
and
you
a
real
well-run,
open
source
project,
and
you
know
coming
from
dr..
This
was
really
important.
We
had
like
3,000
contributors,
a
few
thousand
pull
requests
a
week.
C
Right
was
it
you
you
make
people
feel
like
they
are,
and
you
actually
treat
them
as,
if
they're
part
of
your
your
family
right
and
then
this
is
not
about
giving
them
a
few
to
you
know
a
few
tokens
right.
This
is
about
really
valuing
their
contributions,
giving
them
a
level
of
control
and
being
willing
to
be
decentralized
and
how
you
manage
your
codebase
in
the
same
way
that
you
manage
your.
You
know.
A
D
There
was,
we
thought
the
code,
we
as
I,
think
every
project
is
warning
like
how
did
QA
your
code
and
like
how
to
know
it's
ready
is
almost
a
harder
problem
than
writing
it,
and
so
we
were
still
you
know,
figuring,
that
out
and
like
and
like
we
would
stand
up
test
nuts
and
they
would
go
down.
We
won't
really
wanted
to
get.
You
know
things
launch
ready.
D
We
had
a
schedule
that
we
were
trying
to
meet
and
we
ended
up
inventing
like
what
ended
up
being
like
a
good
enough
QA
mechanism,
just
by
like
sort
of
trying
a
bunch
of
things
developing
a
bunch
of
tooling
we're
very
proud
of
our
simulator.
That
goddess
allows
us
to
simulate
the
state
machine
and
that
all
got
us
to
this
point.
But,
like
you
know,
I
think
I
had
people
trying
to
start
a
test
net
on
like
Christmas
Eve
last
year
and
like
yeah,
it
was
it
was
kind
of
you
know.
It
was
a
nightmare.
D
D
B
So
so
we
actually
started
with
the
premise
that
this
is
designed
to
be
bricked
and
like
destroyed,
crashed
burn
and
fire,
and
this
is
actually
where
incentives
come
in.
Incentives
come
in
from
breaking
it,
so
like
testing,
bending
and
breaking
that's
kind
of
our
classification
and
the
idea
is
actually
centralized
people
to
come
in
and
build
more
tooling
to
tests
build
more
kind
of
for,
like
just
do
different
types
of
attacks
on
the
system
and
in
the
way
we
actually
may
be
like
trying
to
engage
community
to
do
QA
with
us.
B
So
we
have
our
like
test
framework,
which
you
know
spins
up,
notes,
drops
and
destroys
them
then
doing
those
things,
and
the
idea
is
like
we
can
do
only
is
that
much.
There
is
a
lot
more
ideas
how
to
break
it.
People
actually
can
go
participate,
get
excited
like
at
least
from
my
perspective.
It's
exciting
to
go
and
break
somebody's
else's
code.
I,
don't
have
any
time
doing
that,
but
like
in
general.
This
is
something
that
a
lot
of
people
would
be
excited
about
and
actually
doing
that
by
improving
the
final
system
right.
A
C
I
mean
so
again
what
what
we
did,
which
is
somewhat
different,
is
we
didn't,
have
a
separate
test
net
from
a
main
net.
In
essence,
we
launched
the
main
net
and
then
we
had
various
phases
where
we
were
declaring
the
code
to
be
beta
and
declaring
it
to
be
live,
and
so
we
sort
of
followed.
You
know
some
sort
of
thing.
C
There's
two
phases:
there's
the
first
make
sure
that
it
isn't
broken
in
ways
that
you
can
predict,
and
that
was
just
sort
of
good
coding
practice
testing
to
make
sure
that
things
to
work
technically
and
there
again.
The
motivation
and
the
incentives
that
we
set
were
for
people
who
like
to
build
great
code.
But
then
we
thought
it
was
important
as
quickly
as
possible
to
get
live
with
and
test
the
things
that
you
can't
simulate,
which
is
how
our
Byzantine
actor
is
gonna
behave
and
how
are
people
gonna,
try
and
defraud
the
system?
C
And
you
know
that
was
basically
our
v2
network
got
really
big
and
we
learned
all
sorts
of
interesting
ways
that
people
could
could
defraud
the
network.
And
then
we,
while
keeping
the
v2
network
running
and
live
in
the
state,
live
forever.
We
started
building
our
v3
network,
which
was
much
more
resistant
to
the
kinds
of
you
know,
games
that
we
saw
right
and
now
we've
managed
to
you
know
we're.
You
know
at
a
point
where
the
v3
network
is
far
larger,
far
more
robust
than
the
v2
network,
and
because
we
are
c20,
we
didn't
change.
E
E
The
the
thing
that
we
can't
well
early
are
some
of
the
bugs,
and
especially
because
we
wanted
to
engage
people
early,
but
the
thing
that
we
we
could
control
things
like
really
good
documentation
on
day,
one
written
so
that
it
could
be
translated
into
other
languages.
The
I
just
had
a
brain.
Blank
I
had
another,
so.
E
E
E
Experience
like
you,
you
didn't
have
to
compile
from
source,
so
we
had
brew,
install
for
you,
know
Mac
users
and
an
apt
for
Debian
Ubuntu,
and
that
you
know
people
have
told
us
that
that's
made
it
easy
for
them
to
get
started.
And
then
you
know
if
they
only
invest
a
little
bit
of
time
to
get
started.
If
it
breaks
fast,
you
know
they'll
they're
more
likely
to
come
back
then
if
they
spent
a
really
long
time
to
get
started
and
then.
A
E
E
The
other
side
of
it
is
like
you
have
some
some
users
that
do
things
that
you
don't
expect.
That
are
amazing
that,
like
one
of
our
one
of
our
contributors,
Gareth
made
a
block
Explorer
like
an
awesome
one
in
his
free
time,
and
and
so
we,
we
have
allocated
a
certain
amount
of
points
that
we
give
to
like
MVP
of
the
week
and
that's
sort
of
how
we
award
people
in
an
extra
way
and.
E
You
know
it's
a
signal
to
us
and
to
the
community
that
that,
like,
if
you
have
more
points
than
you,
are
more
engaged
and
you're
helping
the
test
net
move
forward
and
and
that
you
know
that's
a
good
signal
for
for
us
and
and
for
others.
If
you're
gonna
run
a
node
that
maybe
folks
will
delegate
to
things
yeah
yeah.
C
Different
people
are
motivated
by
different
things
right
in
and
it
doesn't
always
have
to
be
an
economic
incentive
right
I
mean
if
people
interested
in
working
on
great
code
or
building
up
their
reputation
or
getting
the
you
know
adulation
of
their
peers
right,
you,
don't
you
don't
have
to
reward
different
people
differently.
You
just
have
different
motivations
for
different
types
of
behavior
and
the
kind
of
motivations
you
want
to
have
for
helping
you
build.
Your
code
base
are
very
different
than
you
know,
running
a
node
and.
E
I
I
think
one
of
the
reasons
that
were
able
to
attract
people
when,
when
there
are
these
other
opportunities
that
they
are
rewarded,
you
know
monetarily
is
just
because
we
have
like
this
really
cool
tech,
that's
different
and
unique,
and
and
both
from
an
operation
perspective
like
operators
have
a
unique
experience
and
there's
sort
of
this.
Like
you
know,
the
fact
that
the
blockchain
is
constant
is
crazy,
so
I
think.
D
One
of
the
things,
though,
that
is
challenging
right
now,
is
when
I
was
doing
this.
The
first
time
I
was
mostly
operating
in
a
setting
with
non-professional
operators.
It
was
it
was.
You
know
it
was
before
the
professionalization
of
the
space
and
the
the
last
year
and
the
mint
in
the
network
launches
over
2019
and
sort
of
the
maturing
of
the
tezo's
ecosystem
have
sort
of
godness
to
the
point
where
we
have.
B
But
we
kind
of
this
is
a
criteria
we'll
be
judging
on.
You
know
the
impact
on
the
network.
If
you
build
something,
you
know
how
valuable
that
is
long
term,
for
example,
somebody
built
you
know
blog
Explorer
or
build.
You
know
a
testing
simulator,
which
you
know
I
sort
of
found,
a
bug
which
you
know
actually
would
stall
a
network
in
production
right.
This
is
very
different
than
if
you
just
ran
a
node
installing
from
sudo
out.
B
A
A
Cool
sound
yep,
so
so
there
is
so
there's
that
I'm
in
the
first
part
of
the
question
is:
is
that
a
positive
or
negative
thing,
and
the
second
part
is,
can
you
lower
the
bar
for
people
to
participate
in
testing
it?
Even
you
know
not
non-techie.
Can
it
be
a
file
that
you
double
click
and
it
just
runs
a
note
on
your
computer
and
that's
all
you
need
to
do
so.
B
Yeah
I
mean
I
think
like
I've,
actually
changed
my
opinion
as
I
was
engaging
more
with
professional
validators,
because
kind
of
when
I
first
saw
like
this
professionalisation.
I
was
kind
of
disappointed
because
we
kind
of
end
up
in
the
same
state
as
we
had
this
before
work,
where
it's
all
just
controlled
by.
You
know
really
three
large
mining
pools,
and
you
know
if
you
need
to
front
run
something
you
just
go
to
them
and
you
know
paid
a
million
dollars
like.
B
So
that's
one
side
and
and
I
think
like
longer-term
right
will
like
what
we
trying
to
encourage
is
actually
balance
where
you
have
professional
validators,
which
will
have
like
kind
of
larger
allocation
because
of
delegation
because
of
their
reputation
and
then
have
a
way
to
have
a
long
tail
of
kind
of
smaller
individual
validators
that
maybe
double
clicked
and
download
a
thing.
Or
maybe
it's
actually
like
a
developer
and
running
a
note
to
you
know,
power
their
application.
B
So
that's
ideas
like
like
the
way
we're
kind
of
trying
to
elect
is
to
unlock
the
long
tail
of
validators
and
yeah
for
sure
which
we
need
to
make
the
stuff
easier.
There
is
I
mean
psychos
has
I,
think
a
point
that
like
making
it
too
easy
might
be,
at
least
at
this
point
very
dangerous
and
like
I,
can
see
that
just
because
right
now,
for
example,
if
you
don't
have
your
keys
in
in
some
kind
of
secure
hardware
or
at
least
SGX,
you
know
somebody
breaks
in,
they
can
steal
your
money.
B
This
is
huge
or,
like
double
sign
you
get
slashed.
That's
you
know,
creates
huge
risk
on
just
people.
Turning
around
and
saying,
like,
oh
I,
don't
want
to
run
this
and
kind
of
creating
a
huge
massive
like
splash
in
PR,
and
that's
so.
There
is
a
double
sided
thing
of
like
having
lots
of
non-professional
validators,
who
might
not
be
caring
about
security
as
much.
C
Yes,
we
actually,
you
know,
we
thought
it
was
really
important
in
designing
a
storage
network
to
not
have
it
be
very
difficult
to
run
a
node.
Now
we
took
a
very
different
set
of
problems
and
and
partially
some
of
our
solutions,
we're
saying
hey,
we
don't
want
to
use
blockchain
to
solve
some
of
our
problems
like
for
us.
The
biggest
thing
that
we
want
for
people
who
are
running
nodes
is
to
have
a
good
connection
to
the
Internet,
to
always
be
up
and
to
make
sure
that
they
are
storing
what
they
claim.
C
They
do
right
so
for
understanding
whether
people
are
up
or
not.
We
just
use
good
peer-to-peer
technology
and
are
constantly
pinging
to
make
sure
that
people
are
up
to
make
sure
that
they
are
storing
what
they
claim
they
do.
We
do
a
cryptographic
challenge,
but
it's
a
cryptographic
challenge
that
is
computationally
very
cheap
if
you're
doing
the
right
thing
right.
C
Basically,
you
know:
hey,
give
us,
give
us
a
hash
of
the
following
parts
of
the
file
that
you're
saying
you're
storing
and
it's
really
easy
to
do
it
if
you're
doing
the
right
thing
and
really
hard
to
do
if
you're,
not
right,
and
so
that
has
sort
of
allowed
us
to
thread
the
needle
where
we
want
to
be.
You
know,
half
to
a
third,
the
price
of
AWS
and
yet,
at
the
same
time,
give
people
who
are
running
the
underlying
nodes
enough
profit
incentive
to
stick
around
and
we've
managed
to
do
that.
C
D
All
I
would
say
is
in
general,
like
the
economy
of
you
know,
all
of
of
all
of
these
systems
is
is
there's
like
a
lot
of
fragile
points
to
it
right
now,
there
is
the
possible,
like
I'm
I,
strongly
suspect
that
running
infrastructure
and
networks
is
not
by
itself
a
business
that
it
is
probably
a
side,
business
or
Adaline
to
business
with
many
other
sort
of
core
businesses.
But
what
are
those
core
businesses
is
still
being
figured
out,
and
you
know
the
biggest
danger
is
what
we've
seen
in
us
were.
Essentially,
exchanges
run
your
network.
D
It's
a
network
that,
like
serves
exchanges,
is
run
by
exchanges
serves,
you
know
like
this
is
what
it
has
become
and
I
think
that's
a
easily
easy
pathology
to
like
fall
into
as
a
network,
and
so
I
think
that
there's
a
lot
of
figuring
out,
there's
also
like
the
general
problem
that
all
the
proof
of
state
networks
are
too
small
right
now
to
pay
a
large
number
of
nose.
Note
operators
which
could
you
know
easily
we'd
to
like
a
flight
from
quality
in
a
market
for
lemons
sort
of
vote.
It's
there's
a
lot
of
information.
D
Asymmetry
in
this
market,
like
one
of
the
one
of
the
businesses
that
I
thought
of
starting
before
I
kind
of
got
fully
sucked
into
like
actually
just
like
moving
tender.
Mint
forward
and
cosmos
forward
was,
like
a
you
know,
proof
of
stake,
operator,
sort
of
rating
certification
business,
but
now
I'm
too
deeply
conflicted
to
like
start
at
that
business,
but
I
would
love
it
if
someone's
would
start
like
and
execute
on
that
business.
Well,
it
would
really
help
I.
E
A
E
So
yeah,
so
we
we
think
that
is
really
important
and
and
and
it's
it's
important
because
you
know
not-
everyone
can
can
use
the
CLI
and
and
and
and
we
don't
want
to
exclude
people
who
would
otherwise
be
operators
of
the
network.
Even
people
who'd
want
to
participate
in
consensus,
so
so
we're
working
on
a
first
party
like
graphical
user
interface,
application
for
for
operators
and
and
we're
working
towards
that.
Like
double-click
experience
for
the
reasons
that
you
know.
A
So
I
want
to
talk
about
costs
on
the
one
side
sake
again,
you're
giving
good
examples.
Thank
you.
You
mentioned
that
projects.
Don't
have
enough
money
to
pay.
No
doubt
operators
a
lot
of
times
and
so
I
want
to
know
what
are
the
costs
of
running
the
node,
both
like
the
setup
and
the
ongoing
costs
of
running
it.
I
don't
know
in
manpower
and
electricity.
If
you
can
make
some
kind
of
an
assumption
and
whatever
there
ways
to
minimize
those
costs
sake,
do
you
want
to
start
yeah.
D
Absolutely
so
I
I
also
have
a
sort
of
node
operating
business
called
occlusion
that
I
run.
We
run
nodes
primarily
on
the
cosmos
main
net
and
the
the
cosmos
have
maintained
the
Terra
main
net,
but
we
are
also
participating
in
a
number
of
test
nuts.
We
have
been
helping
out
with
a
number
of
other
projects,
so
I
have
a
fairly
comprehensive
understanding
of
like
what
your
cost
structure
is
to
be
one
of
these
operators,
at
least.
If
you
are,
you
know,
if
the
network
requires
less
casual.
D
What
I
would
say
is
that,
like
as
a
practical
matter,
our
server
and
data
center
costs
were
not
insignificant,
but,
like
are
a
small
fraction
of
the
salaries
you
need
to
pay
to
fir,
have
a
number
of
full-time
people
looking
at
updates,
responding
to
security
incidents,
we've
had
one
critical
and
like
three
sub
like
high
security
incidents
on
the
meaning
that
that
have
propagated
all
the
other
tender
mint
chains.
So
we
have
to
do
upgrades
monitoring
all
the
stuff.
All
the
software
around
sort
of
DevOps
and
monitoring
is
all
really
immature.
D
C
I
mean
so
so
storage
again
our
Design
Center
was
hey.
You
should
be
able
to
take
existing
hardware
that
you're
running.
You
know
whether
you're
you
know
your
apartment
is
in
London
or
in
Lagos
and
and
be
able
to
do
so
with
almost
no
incremental
cost.
So
at
this
point,
actually
the
incremental
cost
to
run
a
storage
node.
If
you
already
have
a
disk
drive
and
a
connection
to
the
Internet
is
measured
in
pennies
per
month,
but
that's
mint.
C
We've
made
some
really
important
design
decisions
around
what
we
ask
people
to
do
and
other
than
an
initial
proof
of
work
to
prove
so
that
you
just
can't
spin
up
these
things
easily
right
ongoing
basis,
really
there's
the
only
cryptographically
mildly
expensive
thing
to
do
is
to
validate
that
you're.
You
have
the
data
that
you
say
and
we
make
it
as
cheap
as
possible
right.
It's
easy
to
it,
cost
you
almost
nothing.
A
B
C
But
but
I
mean
I,
think
I
think
it
is
a
actually
competitive,
differentiator
and
relationship.
I.
Think
of
everybody
on
this
panel
is
that
we've
actually
been
spending
our
time
building
things
rather
than
you
know
you
look
at
the
2017
crop
of
I've,
I,
SEOs
and
I.
Think
a
high
percentage
of
the
people
who've
actually
built
in
or
launching
things
are
on
this
panel,
but
you
know,
spend
your
time
building
great
stuff
and
invest
in
governance
and
try
and
be
leading
in
governance
as
well
as
in
as
in
Cody.
Alright,.