►
From YouTube: zkGamming | Community Conversation
Description
Mina Protocol – the world's lightest blockchain
A
We
wanted
to
understand
what
it
means
to
build
decentralized
games
today
in
2023,
and
we
have
the
idea
to
build
a
Serial
knowledge,
gaming
toolkit
and
we're
trying
to
understand
what
should
be
the
components
of
that
toolkit.
So
through
the
last
year,
we
were
working
with
other
protocols
trying
to
to
build
a
proof
of
Concepts
trying
to
to
build
decentralized
games
to
to
feel
the
pain,
basically
as
game
developers,
I'm
not
by
origin,
again
developer
I'm,
a
very
passionate
gamer,
but
we
needed
to
gain
some
experience
in
actually
building
games.
A
A
What's
the
role
of
your
knowledge
in
gaming
and
what's
the
role
of,
is
it
a
hybrid
architecture
that
we
need
today?
Can
games
be
fully
decentralized
on
chain?
Is
there
something
in
between
that?
We
need
to
start
putting
together.
So
all
these
things
are
in
my
my
head
these
days
and
also
part
of
the
team,
so
this
conversation
basically
is
born
out
of
the
Curiosity
to
understand
other
people's
pain
and
to
get
some
feedback
about
how
we
can
think
about
this
architecture.
B
Fantastic,
so
so,
maybe,
as
we
start
I
think
like,
maybe
we
can
start
with
the
conversation
and
as
we
go
around
like
if
as
you,
if
you're
speaking
for
the
first
time,
maybe
if
you
could
just
introduce
like
introduce
yourself
just
in
this
scope
of
time
and
then
so
we'll
just
say
like
we'll
use
that
as
our
way
to
do
introductions
but
Ramiro.
Maybe
do
you
want
to
start
us
off
with
a
prompt?
Oh,
yes,
Stephen.
C
B
A
I
may
suggest,
starting
with
what
I
don't
know
like
the
backgrounds
that
all
of
you
have
and
if
you've
dived
into
a
game
theory.
Basically,
this
whole
idea,
the
title
of
this
conversation
is
incomplete
information
games.
So
maybe
we
can
start
with
the
general
idea
of
what
is
an
incomplete
information
game.
Maybe
raise
your
hand
if
you
already
know
what
it
is,
and
you
want
to
explain
it
and
share
with
us
your
your
understanding
of
that
incomplete
versus
complete
information
or
imperfect
games,
or
sometimes
it's
called
reference
in
the
literature.
C
Okay,
like
a
super
fast
intro,
too
I'm
Stephen
I'm,
also
very
excited
to
be
building
in
the
space
I'll
be
focusing
mainly
on
lsts,
but
definitely
I'm.
Also
a
gamer
and,
admittedly
have
like
a
thing
that
I've
for
a
long
time
been
working
on
the
side
with
like
a
unity,
game
I
think
it'd
be
awesome
to
see
you
kind
of
make
a
third
web.
C
What
third
web
is
done
for
solidity
as
like
an
SDK
for
Unity
or
to
have,
like
you
know,
really
a
Unity
for
web
3
using
munifer,
actually
doing
the
entree
and
stuff,
but
yeah
like
incomplete
information
game
is
basically
like
you
know.
Chess
everyone
sees
all
the
pieces.
Everyone
technically
has
all
the
information.
We
all
make
our
own
conclusions
and
decide
what
the
best
move
might
be
based
on
that
information.
C
But
then
there's
like
a
different
class
of
games
like
like
chess,
has
complete
information
and
then
a
game
of
incomplete
information
would
be
something
like
poker
like
eventually.
You
do
reveal
a
lot
of
the
information
or
like
stuff
like
that,
but
there's
other
games
where
there's
secrets
in
the
game
and
I
guess,
like
you
know,
a
sort
of
like
private
blockchain
offers
a
lot
of
opportunity
to
yeah
keep
those
Secrets
throughout
the
game.
A
D
Can
I
ask
you
a
question
yeah,
of
course,
so
yeah
when
you
say
chess,
I'm
interested
because
I
play
chess
for
a
while
and
when
I
am
right
now
trying
to
understand,
incomplete
games.
I
would
ask
the
factor
of
laughter.
So
can
you
like
make
calculations
with
these
incomplete
information,
or
it's
just
brings
the
game
into
a
more
luck
factor
or
you
know,
like
you
know
what
I
mean
just
yeah
well,.
A
When
you
talk
about
luck,
maybe
what
you're
trying
to
reference
is
a
probability
distribution
where
you
have
a
certain
chances
of
getting
certain
State
on
your
game.
That
you're,
not
you
cannot
manipulate.
Basically,
so
chess
as
Stephen
says,
is
a
complete
information
game
and
you
can
achieve
what's
called
Nash
equilibrium,
which
gives
you
a
formula
to
what
will
be
the
optimal
optimal
set
of
steps
that
you
can
carry
on
in
order
to
win
the
game.
A
Given
that
your
opponent
is
also
trying
to
achieve
this
Nash
equilibrium
and
that's
way
easier
to
calculate
when
you
have
complete
information
in
the
case
of
Chess
is
mostly
related
to
how
many
moves
you
can
plan
ahead
and
how
big
your
memory
is
to
keep
the
problem
space
together.
Basically,
and
of
course,
machine
learning
has
done
tremendous
steps
forward
to
trying
to
to
understand
this
and
they're
all
the
more
basic
algorithms
that
don't
rely
on
deep
neural
networks
and
stuff,
like
that,
you
probably
have
of
the
Minimax
algorithms
that
are
used
to
understand.
A
D
B
A
So
you
see
the
difference
between
the
older
generation
of
poker
players
that
are
still
have
this
idea
of
bluffing
and
reading
your
opponent
and
whatnot,
and
you
see
a
younger
generation
of
Poker
Gamers
players
that
are
just
trying
to
get
really
good
at
playing
random
moves,
and
that
sets
completely
off
the
strategy
from
the
older
generation.
So
you
see
an
emerging
new
approach
or
what
would
be
the
the
best
yeah,
the
Nash
equilibrium
for
for
poker
games.
E
F
A
I'm,
not
an
excerpt
but
by
all
means
I've
just
been
diving
in
all
these
last
last
year,
or
so
so
just
reading
all
the
information
available
over
the
Internet
like
slowly,
you
get
an
idea
of
what's
going
on,
but
yeah
achieving
like
a
good,
getting
a
good
algorithm
that
that's
more
generalizable.
Is
it's
not
an
easy
feat,
and
also
our
work
was
not
super
related
to
creating
like
a
bot
that
you
can
play
against,
and
we
had
that
in
the
backlog
to
to
get
that
feature
for
for
bologna,
for
example.
C
A
It's
your
knowledge,
incomplete
information.
Why
incomplete
information?
This
is
one
learning
that
we
got
as
a
team.
By
building
this
game,
I
was
trying
to
understand
what
is
the
the
most
complex
game
or
what
kind
of
games
can
you
actually
build
with
modern
blockchain
technology?
The
centralized
Tech,
and
we
kind
of
reached
this
conclusion
that
it's
a
very
specific
category
of
game
that
is
feasible,
technologically
feasible
to
to
deploy
to
to
deploy
an
architecture,
and
it's
of
course
an
online
game.
A
You
need
to
have
that
padding
between
turn
and
turn
and
to
be
able
to
group
movements
that
are
not
related
to
your
opponent.
So
you
can
leverage
as
much
State
transition
of
change
as
much
as
you
can,
because,
if
you're
trying
to
implement
an
online
real-time
game
like
like
the
people
like
that
dark
Forest,
maybe
if
you're
like
heard
of
the
latest
and
greatest
on-chain
game
like
Dark
Forest,
is
if
you're
not
familiar
with
that.
A
It's
something
like
Star
Starcraft
that
you
have
is
a
strategy
game
and
that
uses
the
concept
of
fog
of
War
where
you're
starting
your
own
planet
and
you
need
to
leverage
resources.
And
you
can
attack
your
opponents.
But
you
don't
have
full
visibility
of
the
whole
map
and
that's
part
of
the
incomplete
information,
and
they
do
a
very
interesting
hack
for
the
user
experience
and
is
that
they
delay
the
update
of
the
global,
State
and
they've
understood
all
the
state
transitions.
A
As
long
as
the
state
transition
that
you're
proposing
your
your
action
doesn't
involve
or
affect
another
player
that
doesn't
go
Unchained.
They
keep
it
off
chain
and
only
once
they
have
enough
amount
of
movements.
That's
the
the
bundle
that
transition
as
one
and
that's
what
goes
as
a
transition
on
chain
or
a
transaction.
Let's
say
that
actually
has
a
cost
in
gas
right.
A
It
took
a
lot
of
thought
on
how
to
architect
and
trying
to
understand
what
are
the
limits
and
after
reading
some
literature
like,
of
course,
some
other
people
reach
the
same
conclusions,
but
it
was
not
super
intuitive
why
the
current
limit
will
be
this
incomplete
information,
turn-based
games
so
yeah.
That
was
a
little
learning
from
from
the
class
working
projects.
B
I'm
curious
from
the
group,
if,
if
everyone
agree,
I'm
just
going
to
try
to
stir
some
contention
here,
but
if,
if
others
have
found
that
as
a
as
the
optimal
type
of
game
that
that
can
be
built,
I
see,
we
have
a
few
game
experts
as
well
on
the
call.
So
if
anyone
does
anyone
want
to
kind
of
comment
on
that
or
disagree
agree
provide
a
different
perspective.
C
Well,
I
have
a
question,
actually
so
I
I,
don't
think
I
ever
quite
cracked,
exactly
how
dark
Forest
works,
but
I
did
admittedly
play
it
for
let's
just
leave
that
off
an
embarrassing
amount
of
time
and
the
so
I
think
that
I
think
what
you
were
saying
like
gave
me
a
little
bit
of
an
aha
moment
like
I,
think
that
what
they
did
there
is
they
almost
like
made.
It
is
technically
a
turn-based
strategy
game
under
the
hood.
A
A
It's
essentially
a
turn
so,
and
that's
one
very
clever
thing
that
they
did
in
order
to
mitigate
the
potential
for
introducing
bots,
of
course,
because
it
works
based
on
Smart
contracts
and
a
naive
approach
will
be
okay
me,
as
a
programmer.
I
can
put
together
a
contract
that
it
would
just
operate
on
its
own
basic
on
some
based
on
some
heuristics.
So
I
will
be
able
to
compute
faster
that
a
human
player
does
right
and
that's
what
you
see
in
what
is
it
Starcraft
or
on
this
MOBA
kind
of
games
that
yeah?
A
A
So
you
can
issue
in
a
day,
so
it
doesn't
matter
if
you're,
a
human
clicking
around
in
the
platform
or
you're
a
smart
contract
operating
a
fleet.
Everyone
has
a
flat
rate
of
actions
and
that's
essentially
gives
you
a
turn.
So
in
essence,
it's
a
turn-based
game
that
looks
like
a
real-time
strategy
game
because
of
the
rate
of
actions
and
I
found
that
terribly
smart,
but
also
a
bit
of
a
hack,
because
that
was
the
only
way
that
they
could
actually
have
this
full-fledged
strategy
game.
A
No
I'm
not
familiar
with
the
the
specifications
so
we're
specifically
they
keep
on
state.
I
know
that
they
they
just
care
about
the
basic
resources
of
the
planet,
and
now
they
re
they're
introduce
the
idea
of
ships.
So
that's
a
different
smart
contract.
So
basically
you
can
take
your
resources
in
terms
of
human
resources
and
assets
and
minerals
and
whatnot
and
take
it
to
another
planet
yeah.
A
But
all
those
things
are
kept
actually
on
chain
and
that's
what
makes
it
a
little
bit
expensive
in
the
long
run
right
and
the
part
they
keep
off
chain
or
behind
a
proof
is
basically
the
fog
what
they
do
and
I'm
gonna
not
gonna
get
this
right.
But
the
general
idea
is
that
you
need
to
compute
a
hash
of
coordinate
and
once
you
have
access
to
that
coordinate
and
what
resources
or
what
type
of
data
is
pressing
that
coordinate
you
locally.
A
C
It's
basically
like
you
know,
you
see,
like
your
10
by
10
grid
around
you
or
100,
by
100
grit
around
you
and
then
like
there's
an
outer
layer
and
you're,
just
grinding
snarks
and
you're
kind
of
like
unlocking,
like
new
area
that
you
can
like
see.
But
if
you
have
more
processing
power,
you
obviously
find
what's
around
you
faster.
G
A
Maybe
an
open
question
now
that
we've
been
laying
out
what
what
kind
of
games
and
what
are
the
tricky,
Parts
I
wonder
asking
your
Collective
heads
what
would
be
the
the
naive
approach
of
how
you
utilize
your
knowledge
in
something
like
poker,
for
example?
That
is
the
classic
example
of
this
incomplete
information
games.
G
G
You
know
according
to
the
rules
and
then
you
can
either
prove
each
each
move
and
roll
it
up
or
you
can
roll
the
whole
gamer
at
the
end
and
then
send
the
verification
to
the
chain
for
settlements.
So
I
actually
think
because
Casino
card
games
are
one
less
example
for
gaming,
because
people
really
care
about
it.
It
is
partial
information
and
it's
also
in
terms
of
the
capabilities
of
ZK
off
chain,
ZK
and
and
verifiable
compute
these
days
it's
pretty
doable.
A
Yeah,
depending
on
the
rate
of
computation
or
transitions
or
transactions
in
the
given
change
that
you're
operating
the
problem
that
we
found
was
that,
in
order
for
achieving
humanly
Pleasant
pleasable
rate
of
change
yeah,
you
need
to
be
very
fast
with
the
change
that
you
operate
in
and
most
chains
don't
have
that
rate
of
transactions.
So
you
need
to
come
up
with
these
clever
hacks
of
how
to
bundle
Transitions
and
to
only
be
very
sustained
and
very,
very
greedy
with
the
things
that
you
push
on
chain
and
that
was
completely
counterintuitive
to
me.
A
At
the
beginning,
when
I
sat
down
to
start
architecting,
this
kind
of
games
I
was
like
okay,
it's
it's
the
chain,
I
want
to
put
all
the
state
on
chain
because
Dash.
Well,
that
was
the
naive
kind
of
intuition.
It
turned
out
that
that's
that's
a
very
bad
approach,
because
it's
very
expensive
and
it
makes
the
tick
rate
very,
very
slow
and.
G
That
can
totally
be
who
humans
be
I
mean
you
know,
basically,
the
time
to
generate
a
proof
could
be
a
couple
seconds
or
you
know,
maybe
even
less
with
some
modernization,
and
then
you
just
then
need
to
do
the
recursion
step
on
the
other
side,
so
that
can
definitely
be
human
speed.
I
think
this
fall.
This
is
like
eminently
buildable
now.
A
E
Okay,
okay,
hey
guys
I
I
just
got
him.
I
had
a
rather
philosophical
question
and
we
can
like
wait
for
till
the
end
and
following
the
agenda
or
can
I
ask
it
right
now
right
on
please,
okay,
so,
okay,
the
major
question
that
I
want
to
like
understand
what
the
value
the
game
developers
and
Gamers
can
receive
by
using
the
blockchain
as
technology.
E
A
A
very
interesting
question:
I
was
just
writing
exactly
the
answers
to
those
questions
for
the
proposal
that
I
want
to
put
together
for
for
mina
from
mini
cohort.
So
maybe
I
can
kick
start.
That
answer
I.
Don't
think
there
is
only
one
answer
to
that.
But
of
course
the
obvious
one
will,
in
my
opinion,
is
Trust.
A
Removing
the
unique
centralized
operator
and
distributing
that
responsibility
among
the
crowd
creates
a
very
different
set
of
constraints.
And
what's
the
word
I'm
looking
for
motivations-
and
you
can
see
that,
specifically
for
online
gaming
we're
a
community,
it
gets
strongly
together
around
an
activity,
and
you
can
see
this
in
games
like
Eve
online.
That
has
been
I.
A
Think
it's
the
longest
Community
running
an
online
game
for
like
20
years
and
the
company
involved
in
the
development
of
the
game
more
than
10
years
ago,
already
involved
top
Community
contributors
to
be
part
of
the
Sprints,
where
they
design
new
features
for
the
game,
and
they
were
the
very
first
pioneers
in
doing
this
and
establishing
this
relationship
with
the
community.
You
can
argue
that
somebody
like
Activision
with
Diablo.
A
They
also
did
that
a
little
bit
and
they
had
this
record
of
trying
to
listen
to
the
community
to
fine-tune
the
game.
But
if
you're
talking
about
the
centralized
games
that
don't
have
one
centralized
server
or
one
owner
of
that
server,
and
then
this
gets
to
a
completely
different
level
of
trust.
Because
now
the
community
basically
owns
the
the
game
itself
and
not
necessarily
the
the
IEP,
for
example,
in
terms
of
legal
terms,
but
I.
A
Think
that
creates
a
set
of
dynamics
that
are
completely
different
and
it
feels
very
different
to
be
a
player
of
an
online
game
where
the
community
kind
of
has
agency
over
the
game
and
the
community
gets
to
decide
the
direction
on
the
evolution
of
that
game.
So
I
think
there
is
a
lot
of
value
in
a
community
having
agency
over
the
development
over
time
of
that
game
versus
just
one
single
company
deciding
what
we're
going
to
do
with
the
game
and
then
getting
hit
and
hate
for
that.
E
E
A
H
Can
I
go
off?
This
point,
I
think
there's
a
really
interesting
Point
here
about.
Why
does
something
need
to
be
on
chain
or
why
did
the
game
need
to
have
components
that
are
on
chain
and
I?
Think
it
comes
back
to
this
idea,
not
necessarily
just
to
trust,
but
how
do
we
get
trust,
but
we
can
get
it
from
computational
Integrity.
H
The
idea
that
we
can
all
play
and
verify
that
we've
all
played
against
the
same
set
of
rules
I
think
is
incredibly
valuable
and
and
not
just
that
it
gives
us
all
agency
to
participate
in
how
we
update
those
rules
build
with
those
rules,
but
also
how
we
don't
get
disenfranchised
from
a
community
or
a
game.
I
I,
some
sort
of
20
years
ago,
when
I
was
playing
on
my
game
boy.
I
still
have
it.
I
I
always
thought
disenfranchised.
H
What
my
friends
would
have
those
mods
that
you
could
plug
a
game
into
and
make
it
happen.
You
know
all
these
rare
candies
that
are
updated
their
Pokemon
to
extreme
levels
and
it
was
never
fair
to
compete,
compete
against
him
and
I
felt,
like
my
effort,
had
been
disenfranchised
right.
So
I
think
the
real
value
that
a
protocol
like
Mina
can
deliver
is
not
necessarily
just
being
able
to
have
this
computational
Integrity,
but
the
value
is
providing
the
community
with
the
framework
to
set
up
circuits
that
don't
require
that
trusted
setup.
H
It
immediately
allows
all
to
participate
in
these
UK
apps
that
follow
the
same
set
of
rules
to
enable
us
to
have
agency
to
not
allow
us
to
be
disenfranchised.
I
think
it's
really
valuable.
So
the
aspect
of
being
on
shame
is
to
give
us
that
agency
and
not
to
be
disenfranchised,
I.
Think
ultimately,
I.
Don't
think
people
really
care
about
that
until
they
become
disenfranchised
or
have
lost
our
own
agency
in
that
Community,
but
it's
an
invaluable
future
to
have,
and
it's
a
shame
that
we
can't
always
enjoy
it.
E
Can
at
least
so
the
last
one?
Yes,
the
last
one,
the
most
important
so
I
mean
that
all
these
questions,
all
my
questions
was
about
the
company
that
already
working
and
we
can
come
to
them
like,
for
example,
I
can
come
to
them
and
ask
hey
guys,
go
to
mina,
let's
build
some
game
on
it,
and
here
is
that's
why
you
have
to
do
it?
That's
why
you
will
provide
the
killer
feature
in
your
game
that
nobody
else
can
do
it.
I
I
Literally.
The
reason
we
started
this
project
is
because
we're
looking
into
like
CK
for
launching
gaming,
and
we
found
that
things
like
circuit
sizes,
like
really
really
limits.
What
you're
able
to
do,
and
so
we
quickly
realized
that
zkifying,
an
entire
game,
which
is
probably
overkill
for
a
lot
of
cases
like
you,
don't
need
the
lobby
system
to
be
SDK
circuit.
I
You
don't
need,
like
the
math
results
to
basically
get
a
circuit.
You
just
need,
like
some
Key
Parts
here
in
their
application
to
be
ctfied,
so
we
created
this
project
called
timer
engine,
which
is
more
like
a
data
management
platform,
and
we
allow
people
to
write
basically
non-evmware
twos
using
typescript.
So
it's
like
typescript
layer,
twos
and
through
this
you
could
basically
Define
like
the
State
Association
rules
and
how
all
those
work
and
then
now
that
we
have
like
this,
you
know
basically
way
to
turn
State
machines
into
layer
twos.
I
Now
we
want
to
like
see
KFI
subsets
of
a
state
machine.
So
can
you
have
your
general
data
management
platform
and
it
has
like
nft
set
of
all
over
time
based
off
in-game
actions?
You
can
choose
how
to
associate
that
data
and
all
this
kind
of
stuff-
and
it
says
okay
within
this,
like
giant
statement
scene,
that
is
my
game.
A
Amazing,
thank
you.
Sebastian
I
actually
was
checking
out
paima
last
week.
I
think
the
website
looks
pretty
cool,
very
inspiring
architecture,
very
comprehensive
architecture,
also
so
I'm
thinking,
that's
a
lot
of
inspiration
for
from
your
project
and
I.
Think
you're
touching
something
very
crucial
in
terms
of
actual
architecture
and
how
to
build
these
kind
of
games
and
deciding
what
should
be
provable.
A
It's
non-trivial,
I
think
that's
you
actually
touching
something
very
important
that
it's
also
very
tightly
coupled
with
the
type
of
game
and
your
rule
set.
So
it's
different
when
you
plan
turn-based
games
around
around,
for
example-
and
you
have
this
idea
of
a
verifiable
valid
transitions
in
state
machine
and
I.
Think
part
of
the
game
design
should
put
more
like
the
centralized
game,
like
Architects,
should
put
a
lot
of
emphasis
in
understanding.
A
What's
the
part
of
the
computation
that
actually
needs
to
be
verified
and,
and
that
to
me
well,
that
was
not
trivial,
because
every
game
has
slightly
different
rule
sets
and
translating
that
rule
set
into
a
logic
within
a
state
machine
and
making
that
transition
to
be
verifiable
and
generating
a
proof.
That's
quite
a
thought
exercise.
Let's
say:
I
saw
someone
raising
their
hands
and
now
the
hands
is
off.
So
whoever
was
that
please
raise
it
again
and
say
something:
yes,
I
I
heard
a
heart,
I,
totally
mispronounce
your
name.
J
G
J
A
A
Two
different
ways
to
to
approach
that
question,
or
that
answer,
and
it's
a
if
it's
possible
to
combine
Randomness
with
your
knowledge
and
some
sort
of
heuristics
that
actually
reference.
Some
random
movements
in
theory,
I
think
that's
totally
possible
and
my
understanding
is
that
that's
the
way
the
top
players
are
actually
training
against
a
robot
and
trying
to
understand
how
to
produce
random
looking
actions
and
that
deviates
from
the
optimal
approach
like
the
the
Nash
equilibrium.
A
Basically
to
offset
your
opponent
and
the
biggest
question
is
how
to
achieve
true
Randomness
opposed
to
pseudo
Randomness
and,
of
course,
all
of
you
Technologies
already
know
that
getting
Randomness
from
a
deterministic
system
is
really
not
happening.
My
understanding
is
that
the
state
of
the
art
for
generating
Randomness
is
something
on
the
areas
of
verifiable
random
functions
that
are
closely
related
to
serial
knowledge,
circuits,
I,
think
different
companies.
Different
teams
have
found
different
ways
to
achieve
Randomness.
A
So
that's
one
way
to
do
it,
so
you
always
need
to
rely
at
least
as
a
seed
for
your
random
function.
You
need
to
rely
on
some
sort
of
analog
input
that
you
have
no
control
over
in
the
blockchain
space.
You
see
people
using
glass
hash
of
the
hash
of
the
of
the
root
of
the
last
block,
but
the
problem
with
that
is
well.
First,
is
the
the
rate
of
that.
You
can
generate
that,
depending
on
the
block.
A
That's
a
little
bit
too
slow,
depending
on
your
use
case,
depending
also
on
the
change.
You
can
argue
that
that
can
be
game
under
certain
conditions.
So
it's
also
not
the
most
trustworthy
I'm
actively
researching
what
would
be
a
good
random
Oracle.
You
have
chain
link
I
think
nowadays
offer
the
most
robust,
Randomness
Oracle
for
on-chain
purposes
and
I'm
slowly
now
researching,
because
I
also
want
to
build
a
random
Oracle,
so
I'm,
very
interested
in
the
topic
of
randomness
I'm.
A
C
I
actually
have
like
an
adjacent,
but
maybe
an
adjacent
question,
so
I
was
curious.
What
tools,
what
other
open
source
tools
you
assume
so
there's
like
a
category
of
of
like
you,
know,
Indie
developers
that
you're
kind
of
Building
Solutions
to
address
right
and
then
like
what
tools?
Do
you
expect
them
to
use
like
I?
Think
Unity
is
probably
not
the
way
of
the
future.
C
If
you
want
to
like
build
like
a
composability
like
in,
like
you
know,
ownership
into
games
like
I
think
you're,
probably
going
to
want
to
do
something
different,
like
I
found.
This
thing
called
spline
that
like
makes
like
3D
like
animations
easy
and
they
even
have
like
gaming
tool
kits
in
there
a
little
bit,
nothing
about
web3
at
all.
You
know,
but
I'm,
just
curious
to
know
like
yeah.
What
other
tools
do
you
expect
people
to
like
that
you're
building
for
to
be
using.
A
A
So
you
can
produce
an
action
and
that
under
the
hood,
that
action
will
produce
proof
and
then
based
on
certain
heuristics,
you
can
say:
okay.
If
this
category
of
proofs
are
generated,
then
you
can
bundle
them
and
until
you
get
a
critical
point
where
that
state
needs
to
change
and
needs
to
be
synchronized
with
other
players,
for
example
in
the
context
of
a
game,
and
you
can
do
some
smart,
heuristics
and
kind
of
automate,
the
proof
generation
and
the
the
shoot
so
the
validators.
A
Usually
you
don't
spend
a
lot
of
time
in
the
algorithm,
so
you're
going
to
be
using
for
matchmaking
or
the
system
that
you're
going
to
be
using
for
leaderboard
things,
and
those
are
the
things
that
I'm
also
considering
as
a
features
and
services
that
will
be
very
valuable
and
that's.
For
example,
I
was
today.
A
I
was
actually
working
on
that
a
system
of
leaderboard,
an
on-chain
leaderboard,
where
you
can,
as
a
player,
be
still
Anonymous,
and
you
just
produce
your
own
address
of
any
blockchain,
and
that's
that's
your
Handler
basically,
and
you
don't
need
to
disclose
who
you
are,
but
you
can
just
prove
that
you're,
the
owner
of
that
address,
and
that
already
gives
you
certain
separations
of
concerns
of
where
the
ranking
is
maintained.
So
if
the
company
that
develops
the
game
that
you've
happened
to
have
super
high
reputation
decides
to
Sunset
the
game.
A
A
So
I
think
those
are
two
different
categories
of
tooling
and
services,
the
at
least
I'm
thinking
for
that
will
be
useful
for
game
developers,
basically
helping
them
focus
on
game,
mechanics
on
Aesthetics,
on
the
things
that
make
a
great
game
a
great
game
and
trying
to
build
the
things
that
they're
always
going
to
be
the
same.
So
the
system,
once
you
understand
what
what's
a
good
way
to
build
a
leaderboard
or
a
matchmaking
system,
I
think
you
don't
need
to
reinvent
the
wheel
every
time.
A
K
K
A
It
will
require
the
tip
of
the
hash
from
every
other
player,
and
we
will
scramble
that
and
that
will
be
used
as
a
seed
to
generate
the
randomness
for
you
to
to
throw
that
die,
and
we
eventually
Circle
okay
through
all
the
hash
tips
and
every
player
and
at
the
end
of
the
match.
Once
the
winner
has.
This
has
been
decided,
everyone
will
reveal
their
initial
hash
chain
and
everyone
else
could
compute
that
all
the
random
generation
that
happened
throughout
the
match
was
actually
valid
and
sound.
A
A
J
K
A
Not
necessarily
depends
also,
which
circuit
the
complexity
of
the
circuit.
What
are
you
trying
to
validate
and
what
hash
function
you're,
using
if
it's
a
Pederson
with
elliptic
curves
or
if
it's
something
simpler
than
that,
I
think?
That's
that's!
What
gets
very
nuanced
on
what
tools
you
use
to
generate
that
that
trustness.
A
A
I
hope
that
answers
a
little
bit
I'm
coming
back
to
a
question
that
we
got
in
the
in
the
chat
from
igeet
egit.
Sorry
for
butchering
all
your
names,
it
says
baloney,
smart
contracts,
it
stands
for
series,
would
you
be
the
baloney
handle
I
couldn't
find
any
context
in
the
GitHub
repository
I
did
baloney
use
Smart
contracts,
yes,
bologna
uses
smart
contracts
and
all
those
who
written
in
Leo
and
they're
part
of
a
different
repository
that
I
can
give
you.
A
Very
much
oh
yeah
I
see
it
it's
a
CK
gaming
toolkit
that
was
a
very
initial
inceptional
toolkit
that
we
wanted
to
to
develop
and
now
that's
kind
of
on
Halt,
and
we
learn
a
lot
from
developing
that
in
an
Elio
now
we're
thinking
about
the
next
iteration
of
that.
But
there
you
will
find
some
some
smart
contracts
back
to
the
crowd
to
the
chat.
If
there's
any
more
raised
hands,
I'm
also
looking
at
the
time
we
have
like
nine
minutes.
So
if
you
have
any
burning
questions
or
heavy
opinions,
digital
time.
J
C
Well,
if
you're
looking
for
other
game,
devs
I
would
totally
like
you
know,
love
to
work
with
someone
on
this
I.
Don't
think
it'll
be
like
a
core
Focus,
but
it's
something
that
I'm,
very
passionate
about
like
I,
do
have
like
a
game.
I
would
totally
make
and
I
sort
of
Define
the
spec
for
so,
if
you're
looking
for
other
people
to
kind
of
help
throughout
the
process.
Like
you
know,
if
you
want
like
a
an
example
like
a
use
case
in
the
future,
too
I
think
it
could
be
something.
B
Yeah
Maggie,
as
we
as
we
kind
of
wrap
up.
If
there's
anybody
who
didn't
get
a
chance
to
speak,
who
wants
to
or
just
even
introduce
yourself
to
just
say,
you
know
if
you're
working
on
something
specific
related
to
gaming
or
in
the
media
ecosystem,
and
you
want
to
use
this
as
a
chance
to
just
connect,
feel
free
to
come
off
with
me
as
well.
B
B
F
Hi
I'm
Matthew
on
the
crypto
architecture,
R1
labs
we've
been
building,
it's
not
UJS,
not
the
things
and
so
I
believe
that,
like
one
of
the
explicit
design
goals
of
snarky
JS
is
that
it
integrates
nicely
with
like
angular
or
react.
Those
sort
of
Frameworks
and
so
I
would
think
that
adding
a
layer
kind
of
wrapping
that
simplifying
the
API
should
definitely
be
feasible.