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From YouTube: Elections & Redistricting Office Hours with Doug Spencer
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A
Hello-
everyone
I
see
some
of
you
are
still
connecting
to
audio,
but
we
are
glad
that
you've
decided
to
join
us
for
this
october
26th
edition
of
our
office
hours.
So
we've
got
some
good
speakers
lined
up
for
you
today
and
we're
excited
to
see
so
many
people
on
the
call,
even
though
we
know
that
many
of
you
are
just
absolutely
immersed
in
redistricting
these
days,
so
today,
you'll
get
a
chance
to
think
about
it,
even
more,
maybe
with
a
little
less
pressure
than
is
going
on
in
your
state.
A
A
A
Although
we
know
that
lawsuits
will
continue
for
some
time,
so
let
us
know
if
there's
a
topic
that
you
want
to
hear
about
a
speaker
you'd
like
to
hear
from
we
can
probably
get
them,
bring
them
together
for
this
kind
of
small
group
discussion
that
we've
been
having
twice
a
month,
for
I
don't
know
a
year
and
a
half.
Now
I
think
thank
you
to
the
pandemic.
A
For
this
one
thing:
we've
gotten
to
see
you
all
more
regularly
so
again
send
us
any
ideas
that
you
have
and
now
I
will
turn
it
over
to
professor
doug
spencer.
He
is
a
law
professor
at
the
university
of
colorado,
that's
in
boulder
and
he's
currently
the
managing
editor
for
all
about
redistricting
he's
here
with
us
today
to
talk
about
redistricting
lawsuits
and
I
will
hand
it
over
to
you
doug.
Take
it
away.
B
All
right,
thank
you,
mandy,
and
to
the
whole
redistricting
and
elections
team
at
ncsl.
For
inviting
me
to
talk
about
the
litigation
that's
going
on.
I
have
to
say
I
am
right
now
the
site
administrator
for
all
about
redistricting.
This
is
a
website,
I
suppose,
or
a
hope
that
some
of
you
are
familiar
with
redistricting.lls.edu.
B
B
He
and
I
happen
to
be
personal
friends
just
through
our
work
as
academics
in
this
space,
and
he
recently
accepted
a
post
as
a
senior
advisor
in
the
white
house
for
democracy
issues
and
so
was
unable
to
continue
working
on
the
site
and
after
a
lot
of
cajoling.
I
agreed
to
take
this
on
for
him
and
it's
big
shoes,
because
there's
quite
a
bit
going
on
and
I
think
quite
a
bit
more
going
on
quickly,
just
because
of
what's
been
happening
with
the
census.
B
Of
course,
I
think
that
most
of
you
who
are
involved
in
this
already
realize
that
the
time
frame
is
already
very
compact.
Even
had
the
census
data
been
released
in
april
or
may,
the
redistricting
cycle
is
compressed
to
a
few
short
months
in
many
states
anyway,
because
of
statutory
and
constitutional
deadlines.
B
I
was
asked
to
just
give
a
brief
summary
of
some
of
the
litigation
that's
been
going
on
and
what's
pending
and
I'll
try
to
cover
as
much
as
I
can.
I've
been
teaching
classes
this
morning,
but
I
understand
it's
possible.
More
lawsuits
have
been
filed
even
today,
so
it
could
be.
If
I
miss
something
that
you're
aware
of,
I
would
love
for
you
to.
B
Let
me
know
if
you're
aware
of
some
litigation,
your
state,
that
I
don't
cover
the
first
kind
of
group
of
cases
that
I
wanted
to
mention
without
really
going
into
too
much
detail.
Are
these
cases
that
are
called
impasse
litigation.
These
are
lawsuits
that
have
been
filed
in
a
handful
of
states
where
the
plaintiffs
allege
that
the
process
is
going
to
break
down
and
that
there's
no
way
that
whatever
process
exists.
B
In
the
state,
new
maps
will
be
created
and
adopted
in
time
for
the
2022
midterm
election
for
congressional
races
or
whenever
the
deadline
is
for
state
legislative
races.
Those
lawsuits
seek
a
declaratory
judgment
from
a
judge
that
will
declare
the
current
districts
are
unconstitutional
because
they're
not
equally
populated
and
with
that
declaration,
then
they
can't
be
used
for
this
upcoming
election
and
so
asks
the
court
to
draw
those
districts
so
that
there
can
at
least
be
something
on
the
books.
B
So
candidates
know
where
to
run
people
know
who
to
vote
for,
and
elections
can
move
forward.
So
we
see
this
litigation
in
louisiana
in
minnesota.
Minnesota
was
the
first
lawsuit
of
this
nature
for
impasse,
litigation
in
part,
because
the
legislature
has
not
drawn
maps
for
several
cycles,
and
so
there
was
litigation
to
kind
of
get
ahead
of
that
this
time
to
say,
we
know
that
our
legislature
is
not
really
going
to
take
this
seriously
and
we
want
the
judge
to
draw
it.
B
B
The
thinking
for
both
of
those
parties
is
that
federal
courts
would
be
more
amenable
to
the
democratic
point
of
view,
I
suppose,
than
the
state
supreme
court,
which
leans
conservative
and
republicans
felt
the
exact
opposite
that
they
could
get
a
better
hearing
in
front
of
the
state's
supreme
court.
The
arguments
were
essentially
identical.
B
We
expect
that
our
republican
legislature
won't
pass
a
redistricting
plan
that
our
democratic
governor
will
approve
of,
and
we
want
a
declaration
that
the
current
districts
that
exist
are
unconstitutional,
and
then
we
want
you,
the
court
to
step
in
and
draw
the
districts.
The
federal
court
to
its
credit
said
we're
not
going
to
intervene
until
the
state
process
plays
out,
which
includes
the
state
legislature
and
the
governor
actually
not
coming
to
any
resolution.
So
there
actually
is
an
impasse
and
giving
time
for
state
courts
to
get
involved.
B
The
state
supreme
court,
then
the
next
day
issued
an
opinion
and
said
we're
ready
to
draw
these
districts
as
necessary,
so
in
practice
that
renders
this
federal
case
as
irrelevant
and
likely
not
to
go
anywhere.
Nevertheless,
there's
been
an
appeal
of
that
case
to
the
united
states
supreme
court
and
that
appeal
tries
to
clarify
whether
federal
court
should
ever
be
able
to
get
involved
in
the
state
processes
before
states
complete
their
entire
redistricting
process,
including
state
courts,
and
what
republicans
are
looking
for
in
that
u.s
supreme
court
opinion.
B
If
the
court
takes
it
up
and
issues,
an
opinion
is
to
completely
dismiss
that
lower
court
federal
case
and
preclude
plaintiffs
from
going
to
federal
court
in
the
future,
so
that
that
case
doesn't
just
hang
out
there
like.
It
is
right
now
or
the
judge
says
we're
going
to
wait
and
see
we're
not
going
to
dismiss
the
case,
but
we're
not
going
to
do
anything
until
we
see
how
things
play
out
and
there's
a
question
about
whether
that's
a
an
accurate
reading
of
the
federal
court's
acceptable
jurisdiction.
B
B
B
So
the
commission
asked
the
state
supreme
court
for
an
extension
and
they
asked
for
an
extension
through
mid-january.
They
were
hoping
that
they
could
hold
public
hearings
in
early
january,
and
so
they
wouldn't
be
working
or
compressed
to
get
their
maps
out
over
the
holiday
season.
The
state
supreme
court
responded
and
said
we'll
give
you
until
december
27th.
B
So
that
means
that
a
lot
of
the
last
minute
wrangling
and
public
hearings
will
be
during
that
holiday
season.
But
that
is
what
it
is,
and
the
commission
will
be
bound
by
this
new
deadline
of
december
27th
and
that's
that's
a
piece
of
litigation.
That's
already
gone
back
and
forth
and
is
essentially
resolved
in
texas,
there's
litigation
in
federal
court
that
challenges
the
state
legislative
districts.
The
state
legislative
districts
were
passed
by
the
state
legislature
on
october
18th
and
governor
abbott
signed
them
into
law
yesterday,
along
with
the
congressional
map.
B
This
challenge
is
specifically
about
the
state
senate
and
the
state
house,
and
the
argument
is
that
in
article
3,
section
28
of
the
texas
state
constitution,
this
constitution
says
that
state
districts
shall
be
drawn
quote
at
the
first
regular
session
of
the
state
legislature
after
the
release
of
the
census
data.
Well,
the
regular
session
had
ended
in
texas
by
the
time
the
census
data
were
released
in
august,
and
the
next
regular
session
doesn't
begin
until
january
2023..
B
Now
the
texas
legislature
met
in
special
session
to
pass
these
maps
that
were
signed
into
law
yesterday,
but
this
lawsuit
alleges
that
the
state
legislative
maps
are
invalid
because
they
weren't
drawn
according
to
the
process.
That's
set
out
in
the
texas
state
constitution,
and
so
that's
a
pending
case
and
the
court
has
not
issued
an
order
or
ruling
in
that
case
that
I'm
aware
of
yet
and
so
we'll
wait
and
see
exactly
what
happens
again.
That's
a
lawsuit
in
a
federal
court
challenging
state
districts
because
of
an
interpretation
of
the
state
constitutional
law.
B
So
there
could
be
a
motion
to
move
this
to
a
state
court.
There
could
be
a
lot
of
procedural
moves,
but
I
expect
this
to
get
a
hearing,
because
the
text
of
the
state
constitution
is
so
explicit
on
this
issue
in
illinois,
the
state
legislative
maps
were
also
passed
with
an
eye
towards
a
deadline
that
was
going
to
expire.
B
In
fact,
the
deadline
was
going
to
expire
before
at
the
end
of
july,
before
the
census
data
were
available,
and
so
what
the
state
legislature
did
was
draw
maps
for
their
state
house
and
state
senate,
but
they
used
american
community
survey
data
and
then
they
recalibrated
or
updated,
or
again
kind
of
updated
their
maps
once
the
census
data
were
released
and
the
question
is
when
they
updated
their
maps.
Was
that
really
should
that
be
considered
under
law
and
update
a
recalibration?
B
Or
is
it
really
considered
drawing
new
maps
because
they
were
drawing
new
districts
really
and
even
though
the
lines
weren't
moving
enormously,
they
were
moving
and
a
new
map
was
drawn.
The
reason
that
that
matters
is
because
the
map
that
was
drawn
for
the
state
legislature
was
drawn
after
the
deadline
in
the
law,
and
the
law
specifies
that
if
the
legislature
fails
to
pass
a
districting
plan
by
that
deadline,
then
a
backup
commission
of
appointed
members
would
take
control.
Democrats
didn't
appoint
anybody
to
that
backup,
commission,
because
they
they
didn't
they.
They
refused.
B
I
guess
to
acknowledge
that
there
was
any
legitimacy
to
the
argument
that
a
backup
commission
should
exist,
and
so
there
was
this
weird
outcome
that
it
could
have
been
the
case.
A
court
would
say
you're
right.
These
maps
were
drawn
after
the
deadline
and
a
commission
should
draw
them,
and
the
commission
only
featured
republicans
in
a
state
that
leans
heavily
democratic.
B
The
court
said
this
is
a
federal
court
and
it
said
that
the
maps
indeed
are
invalid,
that
it
was
not
okay
for
the
legislature
to
draw
maps
using
acs
data
and
then
to
update
them.
That
update
constituted
the
new
drawing
of
maps,
but
the
court
said
that
wasn't
a
failure
of
the
state
legislature
to
enact
maps.
That
was
just
the
the
way
that
things
shook
out
because
of
the
delay
of
census
data.
B
So
that
was
you
know.
I
suppose
this
is
one
of
those
results
that
we
call
equity
claims,
because
the
court's
not
necessarily
following
the
law
to
a
t
but
coming
up
with
the
conclusion
that
it
feels
is
the
most
fair.
Given
the
circumstances
that
the
legislature
did
actually
convene
and
draw
maps
and
it
wasn't
their
fault,
they
didn't
fail
to
draw
them.
Yet
they
did
mean
that
they
did
miss
the
deadline.
B
The
same
thing
might
be
said
of
the
california
state
supreme
court
that
extended
the
california
deadline
that
deadline's
embedded
in
the
state's
constitution.
So
in
theory,
you
should
have
to
amend
the
constitution
to
extend
that
deadline,
but
there
the
state
supreme
court
said
we'll
act
just
in
our
nature
of
fairness
to
extend
that
deadline
because
of
the
extenuating
circumstances
and
our
commitment
to
fairness.
B
Now,
there's
several
lawsuits
not
about
the
process
and
about
the
timing,
but
about
the
substance
of
the
maps,
and
I
think
this
is
probably
what
will
get
the
most
attention
in
the
national
media
and
what
maybe
you
get
asked
more
more
about.
If
you're
living
in
one
of
these
states
oregon
was
the
first
state
to
adopt
its
congressional
map.
B
Oregon
gained
a
new
legislative
seat,
they
have
six
districts
and
the
the
democrats
who
controlled
the
process
drew
five
seats
that
were
relatively
safely
democratic
and
one
seat
that
was
safely
republican.
There's
one
seat,
that's
competitive,
but
it
really
leans
democratic
and
so
there's
a
lawsuit.
That's
been
filed
by
the
former
secretary
of
state
against
the
current
secretary
of
state,
the
former
secretary
of
state,
is
republican.
The
current
secretary
of
state
is
a
democrat
and
there's
an
allegation
that
this
new
redistricting
plan
is
a
partisan
gerrymander.
B
B
There,
the
statute
in
oregon,
says
explicitly
no
district
shall
be
drawn
to
favor
any
political
party
or
incumbents
or
other
individuals.
So
there
we
have
an
explicit
statement
in
state
law
that
a
district
can't
favor
any
political
party,
and
we
have
a
districting
plan
that
favors
democrats
five
out
of
six
seats
where
democrats
are
approximately
depending
on
which
election
you
look
at
somewhere
between
55,
maybe
and
65
percent
of
the
registered
voting
population,
or
excuse
me
of
the
voting
population
and
but
but
also
hold
a
super
majority
in
their
state
legislature.
B
Because
of
the
way
the
lines
have
been
drawn,
that's
a
lawsuit
that
I
think
actually
has
some
teeth.
I
find
that
lawsuit
quite
interesting,
because
it's
early,
it
was
the
first
partisan
gerrymandering,
lawsuit.
That's
been
filed
in
the
wake
of
rucho
in
a
state
court
on
a
state
claim
the
exact
way
that
chief
justice
roberts
begged.
I
think
people
to
bring
these
cases.
He
says
federal
courts
aren't
going
to
do
this,
but
these
partisan
gerrymandering
smack
of
undemocratic
values
and
they
and
they
feel
unfair
and
unjust.
B
Now
on
whether
or
not
the
ohio
state
legislative
redistricting
plan
corresponds
closely,
the
court
will
have
to
decide
what
closely
means,
but
there's
explicit
language
under
that
state
constitution.
So
those
are
lawsuits
that
allege
partisan
violations
of
the
redistricting
process
and
then,
of
course,
there
are
lawsuits
that
allege.
The
current
redistricting
plans
violate
either
the
voting
rights
act
or
the
14th
amendment
in
terms
of
racial
gerrymandering.
B
There's
one
fewer
majority,
latino
district
from
eight
down
to
seven
there's
one
fewer
majority
black
district
from
one
down
to
zero
and
there's
one
additional
majority
white
district
from
22
to
23.
I
believe
so.
Not
only
did
texas
refuse
to
grant
its
two
new
seats
that
were
due
to
this
growth
to
minority
populations
in
and
there's
many
ways
to
determine
what
a
minority
opportunity
district
is.
B
They
didn't
even
maintain
the
current
amount,
but
they've
they've
scaled
back
and
that's
drawn
the
ire
of
league
of
women's
voters
and
lulac
and
other
groups
that
are
perennial
plaintiffs
in
redistricting
in
texas,
and
so
we're
seeing
a
very
similar
argument
being
made
about
those
maps
that
they
dilute
the
votes
of
minority
voters
in
the
state
and
that
that's
a
violation.
The
voting
rights
act,
even
members
of
the
state
legislature,
basically
have
announced
the
maps
are,
have
been
signed
and
they
have
the
force
of
law
but
buckle
your
seat
belts.
B
And
so
this
is
a
state
where
we're
likely
to
see
more
litigation
and
whatever
the
outcome
of
this
trial
court
almost
certainly
an
appeal
to
the
fifth
circuit
and
perhaps
even
an
appeal
to
the
united
states
supreme
court.
So
the
final
maps
that
we
see
from
texas
may
not
be
in
play
until
mid-decade,
or
we
may
see
multiple
versions
like
we
did
in
the
last
decade
in
illinois.
B
In
addition
to
the
lawsuit
that
was
filed
about
the
timing
issue,
there's
a
lawsuit
against
the
the
state
legislative
maps
challenging
a
district
that
splits,
the
black
community
in
the
east,
st
louis
neighborhood
in
the
south,
western
quadrant
of
chicago
as
a
violation,
the
voting
rights
act
and
then
I'll
also
note,
since
I'm
in
colorado,
that
was
a
lawsuit
actually
filed
october
15..
So
that's
brand
new.
We
don't
have
much
more
information
about
that
illinois
lawsuit
in
colorado.
B
The
process
is
for
an
independent
commission
to
draw
the
districts
and
then
for
the
final
sign-off
to
be
from
the
supreme
court
and
before
the
state
supreme
court
signs
off
they've
held
a
hearing
and
parties
who
are
interested
and
want
to
can
petition
to
file
a
brief
at
that
hearing.
So
it
kind
of
looks
like
the
maps
are
being
challenged,
even
though
they
haven't
officially
been
approved
yet,
but
there's
been
a
judicial
hearing
at
the
state
supreme
court,
and
so
we
may
get
a
flavor
of
how
supreme
courts
are
viewing
this.
B
The
argument
arguments
in
colorado
is
our
congressional
map.
We're
a
state
that
also
gained
an
extra
seat
during
the
last
redistricting
cycle,
and
the
the
latino
community
in
colorado
is
disappointed
with
how
the
congressional
map
was
drawn.
There's
a
lawsuit
claiming
that
the
the
commission
could
have
drawn
a
map
following
all
the
same
criteria,
but
also
included
a
majority
latino
district
in
the
south
and
western
parts
of
our
state.
What
the
commission
did
instead
was
to
apportion
the
largest
percent
of
hispanic
population
in
colorado
in
the
new
district.
B
That's
the
most
competitive,
it
leans
republican,
but
only
by
one
point
and
there's.
35
percent
of
that
district's
population
is
hispanic
and
the
thinking
goes
nobody's
going
to
be
able
to
win
that
district
with
the
rate
with
a
razor
thin
margin,
without
taking
account
of
the
interests
of
the
latino
population
in
that
district,
and
so
there's
a
very
fair
reading
that
that
is
an
opportunity
district
for
latinos
that
they
live
in
a
district
where
their
voice
will
be
heard.
B
Many
most
all
none
but
part
of
the
time,
ostensibly
and
that
the
commission
drew
that
district.
With
that
in
mind,
lulac
has
filed
a
lawsuit
and
disagrees,
and
I'll
just
note
that
this
is
the
first
redistricting
cycle
post
shelby
county.
Obviously,
colorado
was
not
covered
under
section
5
for
its
congressional
maps
and
so
there's
no
there's
no
baseline
against
which
to
think
about
retrogression
in
terms
of
opportunity
districts.
But
I
do
think
that
this
particular
debate
in
colorado
is
really
illustrative
of
the
debate.
B
That's
going
to
be
going
on
all
over
the
united
states
exactly
how
to
quantify
what
a
minority
opportunity
district
is
and
exactly
how
to
quantify
vote,
dilution
for
racial
and
ethnic
minority
and
language
and
minority
language
populations
deluded
compared
to
what
and
and
a
lack
of
opportunity
compared
to
what
we
used
to
have
a
better
sense
of
that,
at
least
in
southern
states
under
section
5.
Because
of
this
idea
that
couldn't
retrogress,
there
are
certainly
ways
after
the
fact
to
sue
districts
on
their
shape
under
the
voting
rights
act.
B
But
I
think
that
what
the
colorado
commission
has
done
here
is
defensible
and
I
I
I
actually
think
that
the
supreme
court
firm
this
map
that's
been
drawn,
and
I
don't
know
whether
lulu
lulac
would
sue.
But
I
think
it
would
be
a
very.
It
would
be
a
novel
challenge
and
I
think,
would
be
a
long,
uproad
kind
of
uphill
battle
to
win
that
case.
So
anyway,
at
least,
that's
not
really
a
nutshell,
because
it's
just
a
lot
of
litigation.
B
There's
only
six
states
that
have
passed
their
congressional
maps,
arkansas
their
maps
aren't
official
until
the
27th,
but
they've
essentially
passed
them
and
the
governor
refused
to
sign
the
bill.
So
the
state
law
says
they'll
go
into
effect,
20
days
after
they
were
signed,
which
is
october
27th,
but
we're
very
early
in
the
cycle.
And
yet
perhaps,
unsurprisingly,
already
more
than
a
dozen
lawsuits
in
both
federal
and
state
court,
raising
all
kinds
of
issues,
and
that's
where
we're
at.
A
Thank
you
so
much
for
that
rundown
of
legislation.
I
know
there's
a
lot
of
different
pieces
and
so
kudos
to
you
for
keeping
us
on
track
and
helping
us
follow
along
with
all
of
that.
So
I
have
one
question
which
I
will
ask
in
a
second,
but
just
a
note
to
anyone
on
here.
You
can
put
your
questions
in
the
chat
if
you
want
to
offer
any
context
about
any
of
the
states
that
were
mentioned.
A
B
No
there's
different
kinds
of
litigation.
There
were
earlier
cases
cases
that
were
filed
even
before
the
process
started.
That
was
what
was
really
unique
really
before
the
census
even
dropped.
There
was
a
lot.
There
were
lawsuits
that
I
didn't
really
talk
about
already,
alleging
that
the
deadlines
were
going
to
be
missed
and
that
new
processes
needed
to
come
into
play.
There
are
these
new
growing
number
of
these
impasse
litigation
lawsuits
I
mean
there
are
lawsuits
that
have
happened
in
one
or
two
states,
this
last
cycle.
That
said
man
our
process
is
breaking
down.
B
We
really
need
to
step
in,
and
now
the
lawsuits
have
been
filed
before
the
legislatures,
even
get
started
and
say
you
know,
maybe
in
a
little
bit
of
a
fatalist
way,
but
we
know
our
system's
broken.
We
know
that
wisconsin's
not
going
to
work.
We
know
that
pennsylvania's
got
a
republican
legislature
and
a
democratic
governor.
It's
not
going
to
work,
and
so
we're
going
to
be
realist
and
ask
you
to
get
the
litigation
started,
and
so
that
is
what's
really
been
different
is
how
quickly
some
of
these
lawsuits
jumped
out
of
the
gate.
B
B
The
right
way.
One
of
the
reasons
I
think
this
organ
lawsuit
is
so
fascinating
is
because
the
process
that
was
agreed
to
in
advance
was
switch
right.
Democrats
had
agreed
to
let
republicans
participate
in
the
process
and
have
a
meaningful
voice
and
even
a
veto
at
some
points
in
the
process
and
then,
when
the
rubber,
they
just
said,
never
mind,
and
so
not
just
that
the
map
itself
may
or
may
not
be
proportional
or
competitive
in
ways
that
the
court
likes.
B
But
the
court
may
view
that
particular
process
and
say
we're
less
likely
to
defer
to
you,
because
you
didn't
follow
this
process.
But
if
you
went
through
the
process
of
public
hearings-
and
you
followed
your
rules
that
were
said
in
advance,
I
expect
there
to
be
quite
a
bit
of
difference
actually
from
these
line.
Drawing
bodies.
A
Thank
you
that's
helpful,
so
I
have
another
question
about
south
dakota,
so
there's
discussion
of
lawsuits
regarding
the
undercount
in
native
american
reservations
and
suing
the
state
if
the
legislature
uses
the
u.s
census
numbers
and
try
to
get
within
the
10
percent.
Presumptively
constitutional
deviation
range.
So
is
that
something
other
states
or
minorities
that
are
dealing
with
that
something
other
states
or
minorities
might
be
dealing
with,
and
then
any
idea
on
the
likelihood
of
success
or
failure
for
lawsuits
like
that.
B
So
I'm
not
very
familiar
with
any
other
lawsuits
or
even
conversations
going
on
about
this
in
other
states,
but
there
may
be
people
on
this
call
who
are
so,
I
can't
definitively
say
that's
not
happening
in
the
past.
States
have
been
given
leeway
to
adjust
their
census
numbers.
Obviously,
states
are
adjusting
their
census
numbers
in
some
places
to
adjust
for
the
prison
population,
and
that
has
been
accepted.
B
The
courts
have
been
very
shy
about
mandating
any
changes
to
the
census,
but
they've
also
been
quite
deferential
in
terms
of
accepting
states,
re-re-weighting
or
recalibrating
or
or
changing.
You
know
in
pennsylvania.
They
cleaned
their
census
data
in
some
ways
and
there
were
little
changes.
You
know
a
percent
here,
a
percent
there
because
of
data
that
the
state
had
they
felt
was
more.
Accurate
courts
historically
have
been
quite
hands
off
in
terms
of
allowing
states
to
do
that.
B
There
was
litigation
because
you
know
20
or
30
000
residents
of
utah
serving
mormon
missions
and
weren't
counted
towards
their
account
a
few
cycles
ago
and
the
courts
said
we're
not
we're
not
going
to
decide
whether
that's,
fair
or
not,
states
can
adjust,
or
the
federal
census
bureau
can
adjust,
but
we're
gonna
we'll
stay
hands
off.
So
if
south
dakota
itself
is
making
these
adjustments,
I
suspect
that
they'll
have
some
flexibility
to
do
that
if
they
want
to
lobby
the
census
bureau
to
change
its
numbers.
A
C
Yes,
please
hello
and
thank
you
very
much
for
coming
and
giving
us
that
rundown.
I
have
a
couple
of
questions
and
the
first
one
I
sort
of
started
as
kind
of
a
joke,
but
now
it's
actually
a
serious
one.
I
was
going
to
say
how
the
heck
do
you
keep
track
of
it,
but
really
truly,
how
do
you
keep
track
of
it
and
how
would
you
recommend
that
we
keep
track
of
it.
B
Well,
I
hope
I'm
keeping
track
of
everything.
That's
the
first
step
that
the
website
that
we
run,
that
is
tracking
news
updates
and
has
shape
files
for
people
as
a
clearinghouse
to
download
and
has
a
whole
bunch
of
information
about
the
criteria.
States
use
we're
trying
to
update
it,
but
the
focus
that
I
have
for
the
site,
because
there's
a
lot
of
sites
that
are
tracking
shape
files
and
news
updates
is
really
to
stay
on
top
of
the
cases.
B
B
They'll
say:
oh
a
complaint
was
filed
today.
Well,
I'd
like
to
see
a
link
to
that
complaint.
I
think
the
public
would
benefit
from
seeing
some
of
these
things
and
so
usually
they're
not
included
there
and
you
can
go
to
the
website
redistricting.lls.edu
and
you
can
get
copies
of
the
complaints
and
the
motions
as
they
come
out.
Also
note,
of
course,
I'm
not
doing
this
completely
alone.
B
I
do
have
a
team
of
three
students
and
we've
split
the
states
out
and
we
try
to
tip
each
other
off
when
we
hear
about
we're
following
about
15
states,
when
we
hear
things
that
might
be
going
on
in
other
states
just
to
make
sure
on
the
same
page,
we
have
a
very
active
slack
channel
that
we
just
are
typing
in.
Did
you
see
this
in
texas?
Make
sure
you
don't
miss
this?
B
Oh
my
gosh,
this
is
going
on,
and
so
you
know,
they're
busy,
they're
doing
school
work
and
they
usually
check
in
you
know
a
couple
hours
on
a
monday
and
a
couple
hours
on
a
friday,
basically,
but
I'm
on
every
night
and
just
committed
to
to
doing
it
as
a
public
service,
because
there's
no
other
place.
That's
that's
tracking.
This
information.
C
Thank
you,
and
that
means
that
what
we
have
to
do
is
watch
your
site.
I
do
also
want
to
mention
that
there's
something
called
redistricting
online.
That
is
quite
a
nice
site
too.
So,
if
you're
not
familiar
with
it,
you
might
like
to
look
at
it
and
jeff
weiss
if
you're
there
and
want
to
comment
on
what
kind
of
tracking
they're
doing
on
litigation.
I'd
like
your
input
rather
than
my
own,
but
it's
just
something
to
look
for,
and
we
can
stick
a
a
link
in
the
chat
there
for
it.
C
B
B
But
I
think,
if
you
look
at
the
litigation
from
you,
know,
lulac
and
this
this
hispanic
opportunity
district,
it's
it's.
It
recognizes
that
what
has
been
drawn
as
a
good
map,
just
not
as
good
as
it
could
be.
I
think,
what's
happening
in
michigan
in
terms
of
their
commitment
to
partisan
fairness
has
been
pretty
remarkable.
The
maps
that
they
have
been
putting
out
score
better
on
these
metrics
of
partisan
fairness
mean
median
scores,
efficiency
gaps,
things
like
that
than
the
state
legislature
ever
did.
B
There's
questions,
of
course
about
the
way
they're
splitting
the
community
in
detroit
and
lansing,
and
so
there's
some
vra
concerns.
But,
generally
speaking,
you
know
if
we
compare
commissions
to
like
a
kumbaya
moment,
then
they're
not
living
up
to
their
potential.
If
we
compare
them
to
the
counter
factual
of
of
legislatures.
B
I
think
they're
doing
remarkably
well,
with
the
giant
caveat
that
we
haven't
seen
enough
produced
maps
and
we
haven't
seen
enough
final
maps
to
really
for
me
to
say
that
with
confidence.
But
I
just
don't
want
to
write
them
off
quite
yet,
and
I
think
that
the
commentary
about
that's
a
little
premature.
C
Well,
then,
I'll
just
offer
that
you
sound
like
a
person
who
favored
moving
towards
commissions,
and
you
are
on
a
call
with
the
national
conference
of
state
legislatures,
so
we're
pretty
sure
that
legislatures
do
represent
all
the
parts
of
the
state
and
that
they
have
good
traditional
patterns
of
doing
this.
So
not
that
legislatures
are
perfect,
but
commissions
are
are
definitely
not
either.
Just
want
to
say
that.
C
D
D
That's
kind
of
what
the
state
courts
have
required
the
legislature
to
do
so.
That'll
be
an
interesting
claim
to
watch
my
question
generally
about
the
loyola
site
versus
what
maritz
law
school
was
doing.
Last
decade.
I
haven't
seen
them
updating
any
redistricting
cases.
Are
they
changing
their
focus
and
the
loyola
law
school
site?
Picking
up
some
of
those
cases,
or
do
you
know
the
interrelationship
there?
I
was
thinking
of
making
a
phone
call
to
the
maritz
people,
so
we'll
know
exactly
who's
collecting.
B
D
B
Yeah,
so
you
know
what
I
can
commit
is
I'll
reach
out
to
them,
because
I
thought
about
thinking
of
this
kind
of
synergistically
and
and
either
not
overlapping
or
supporting
each
other
as
well
frequent
their
site.
But
if,
if
I
don't
know
if
justin
arranged
with
them
any
any
agreement,
I
haven't
certainly
talked
to
them.
But
I
know
them
and
in
fact
this
is
a
good
for
me
to
reach
out
and
talk
to
them.
And
if,
if
I
learn
something
I'll
shoot
you
a
note.
D
B
A
Nodding,
thank
you
jeff,
and
then
I
add
one
thing
here
is
my
note.
So
doug
has
said
which
states
have
passed
congressional
maps,
we'll
just
add
that
in
terms
of
legislative
districtings,
nebraska,
maine,
west
virginia
illinois,
oklahoma
and
texas,
possibly
indiana,
have
enacted
state
house
and
senate
maps
unsure
if
indiana's
governor
has
signed
that
yet
per
ben
who,
like
I
said,
is
traveling.
So
thank
you
so
much
doug
for
joining
us
today
and
for
all
of
this
wonderful
information.
A
A
E
We've
created
a
platform
that
hopefully
achieves
that
by
making
it
really
easy
for
people
to
zoom
into
their
location
on
the
map,
see
what
their
current
districts
look
like
and
how
those
districts
would
change
if
the
various
plans
are
being
implemented.
We've
created
websites
for
new
york
for
north
carolina
for
massachusetts
and
we're
developing
one
for
georgia
and
we're
talking
with
some
groups
in
pennsylvania
and
so
here's
an
example
from
the
north
carolina
application.
E
So
you
can
type
in
address
or
zip
code
or
whatever,
or
you
can
just
click
on
the
map
or
you
could
pick.
If
you
know
your
district,
you
could
pick
a
district
id
and
it
zooms
to
the
map.
If
you
know
for
one
of
the
proposals,
what
the
district
id
name
is,
you
could
select
from
this
information
on
the
right,
it'll
zoom
to
the
map.
We
display
basic
information
in
the
panels
on
the
left,
hand
and
right
hand
sides.
E
So
there
is
some.
You
know:
data
there
about
redistricting,
metrics
and
demographic
characteristics
and
information
that
would
be
of
value
for
voting
rights
act
analysis.
But
it's
really
that's
not
the
main
purpose
of
the
site.
The
main
purpose
of
the
site
is
really
to
zoom
in
and
see
how
your
district
looks
like
how
it
might
change,
and
so
we
include
this
slider
here
that
you
can
very
easily
and
clearly
see
what
the
lines
look
like
now
and
how
they
would
be
updated.
E
If
the
new
district
went
into
effect,
you
can
see
very
clearly
which
municipalities
or
neighborhoods
the
new
district
cuts
through,
and
you
could
use
that
then
to
gauge
for
yourself
what
you
think
of
this
district
and
how
it
compares
with
how
your
representation
has
been
for
the
past
10
years.
We
do
give
the
ability
to
show
information
about
voting,
age,
population,
race
and
ethnicity,
characteristics
and
also
some
data
on
voting
patterns
from
the
2020
presidential
election.
E
E
Some
states,
their
the
district
plans
are
being
proposed
and
we've
incorporated
them
from
the
stakeholder
groups.
Other
states
have
the
we've
incorporated
plans
from
the
either
the
state
legislature
or
the
state
commissions,
and
we
can
incorporate,
as
you
know,
as
many
different
plans,
as
is
helpful
so
anyway.
E
I
really
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
show
this
and
to
highlight
it,
and
hopefully
this
will
inspire
states
to
try
to
make
information
as
accessible
as
possible
and
as
easy
to
access
as
possible
in
terms
of
helping
a
broader
audience
understand
what
the
implications
are
for.
Redistricting.
That's
why
we
call
the
platform
redistricting
and
you
redistricting
affects
everyone,
and
we
hope
this
is
a
tool
to
help
engage
everyone
in
the
in
the
debate
and
in
the
discussion.
A
Thank
you
steve
and
thank
you
for
coming
on
to
share
about
this
tool.
Does
anyone
have
any
questions
here?
I
see.
Christy
has
put
your
contact
information
in
the
chat.
So
if
questions
come
to
people
they
can
reach
out
to
you.
Let's
see
here,
do
we
have
any
other
updates
wendy
do
you
have
one
for?
I
was
just.
C
E
Sure
we'd
be
happy
to
chat
with
them
when
we
developed
this,
we
were
thinking
of
new
york
only
and
we
had
funding
from
the
new
york
state
census
equity
fund
to
create
the
new
york
application
of
the
new
york
version.
We
designed
it
as
it
turns
out
to
be
relatively
easy
to
customize
for
other
states.
E
We've
been
in
discussion
with
some
of
the
stakeholders
in
other
states,
we'd
be
happy
to
talk
with
the
legislate,
tours
and
or
commissions
in
other
states.
We
hopefully
will
be
getting
funding
from
some
of
the
national
funders,
we're
talking
with
them.
It's
up
to
them
to
decide
to
help
support
this
work
in
some
key
states,
but
we're
open
to
and
we'd
love
the
opportunity
if
it
makes
sense
for
the
individual
states
to
chat
with
them
about
how
we
can
help.
A
Great
well,
I
think
that
is
all
from
our
guests,
and
it's
really
all
that
we
have
for
you
today.
So
I
will
just
end
by
saying
that
we
might
see
some
of
you
at
ncsl's
legislative
summit
next
week,
but
for
those
of
you
who
won't
be
joining
us
in
tampa,
there
are
actually
a
couple
sessions
that
will
be
live
streamed.
A
I
think
seven
in
total
and
one
is
one
of
our
election
sessions
and
the
other
is
a
redistricting
session,
say
just
put
that
link
in
the
chat,
so
you
can
check
those
out,
even
if
you
won't
be
able
to
join
us,
you
can
still
get
some
of
that
good
information
with
that.
I
think
we've
had
a
really
good
session
today,
we'll
stick
on.
If
anyone
has
any
additional
questions,
but
if
not,
we
will
see
you
again
when
is
the
next
one?
Oh
and
I'm
getting
ahead
of
myself.
A
Christy
has
reminded
me
that
we
have
an
upcoming
webinar
on
diversity
and
race
data.
What
census
changes
mean
for
policymakers,
that
is
friday,
november
19th,
and
then
I
believe
our
next
office
hours
will
be
the
second
tuesday
in
november,
and
we
won't
be
doing
the
office
hours
right
before
thanksgiving.
Knowing
that.
B
A
A
Great.
Thank
you.
The
first
tuesday
is
election
day
for
a
lot
of
states
and
for
our
team,
so
we
will
be
paying
attention
to
that,
especially
the
legislative
races
and
the
ballot
measures.
So
ncsl
also
has
a
webpage
on
that.
If
you
want
to
see
us
see
the
tracking
of
those
races
anything
else
from
anyone,
I
hope
I've
gotten
all
the
updates.