►
From YouTube: What's Going on with ReFi - Frederic Fournier & Phil Fogel - Near Day at ETHDenver 2023
Description
Learn all about what's happening in the world of regenerative finance in the Web3 world with Fred Fournier of Open Forest Protocol and Phil Fogel of Flow Carbon.
Open Forest Protocol: https://www.openforestprotocol.org/
Flow Carbon: https://www.flowcarbon.com/
--
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A
Great
to
be
here,
yeah
I,
guess
we're
going
to
say
it.
It's
going
to
be
less
of
a
show
than
the
previous
one.
So
we're
going
to
talk
about
re-fight
this
morning
with
with
all
of
you,
where
we
are
with
refi,
what
is
refi
what
we
are
doing
in
refi?
What
are
the
the
key
nice
things
to
be
coming
this
year
in
refi,
so
you
will
try
to
cover
it
all
and,
of
course,
we'll
also
cover
a
bit
about
the
the
carbon
Market.
A
B
Hi
everyone
I'm
Phil,
Hogle
I'm,
one
of
the
co-founders
of
flow
carbon
flow
carbon,
is
building
blockchain
infrastructure
for
the
voluntary
carbon
Market.
We're
building
tokenization
bridges
that
bring
voluntary
carbon
credits
onto
blockchain,
as
well
as
bringing
building
financing
vehicles
for
carbon
projects
on
chain.
A
Thank
you
so
I'm
Fred
I'm,
the
co-founder
and
CEO
of
the
open
Forest
protocol,
which
is
a
measurement
reporting
and
verification
platform
to
for
Forest
project,
obviously,
where
we
provide
the
tech,
the
necessary
attack
for
the
people
on
the
ground
to
measure
the
forest.
Their
activities
reported.
Do
the
verification
in
this
decentralized
way
and
gain
value
from
it
in
a
in
the
form
of
carbon
credits,
and
that's
why
also?
A
B
B
Anything
and
I
also
like
to
extend
the
definition
to
anything
in
the
financial
system
that
tries
to
remove
extraction
so
anytime,
you
have
a
financial
system
where
there
are
intermediaries
or
entities
that
could
be
automated
that
currently
are
taking
a
large
take
rate
that
you
can
actually
create
a
system
that
reduces
that
take
rate.
That's
a
regenerative
system
as
well,
because
it's
actually
making
the
system
more
efficient
and
more
effective,
and
all
of
the
things
that
we're
doing
on
the
intersection
between
climate,
carbon
and
web3.
A
So
for
us,
when
we
started
our
project
back
into
the
end
of
2020,
there
was
no
mention
of
refi
we're
just
you
know
doing
our
thing,
and
eventually,
a
year
later,
2021
was
starting
to
be
kind
of
an
emergence
of
different
companies.
Different
protocols,
doing
different
things
in
refi,
mostly
to
this
point
around
carbon.
But
not
only
are
we
seeing
more
and
more
things
towards.
A
B
For
sure
I
mean
it's
a
really
interesting
space.
That's
been
developing
over
the
course
of
the
last
five
or
six
years,
I.
Think
since
the
birth
of
you
know,
non-bitcoin
based
blockchain
people
have
been
thinking
about
what
other
use
cases
can
you
build
with
them
and
how
can
you
build
impact
use
cases
into
blockchains
and
since
2017
there
have
been
a
bunch
of
projects
that
have
actually
been
building
at
the
intersection
of
carbon
and
web
3.
But,
as
you
said,
it
wasn't
until
2021
that
we
actually
saw
an
explosion
of
the
space.
B
A
B
Yeah
and
it's
really
exciting
to
actually
see
a
ton
of
investors
coming
into
the
space
as
well,
so
you
have
a
community,
that's
growing.
You
have
protocols
and
builders
that
are
growing
into
space,
and
there
are
you
know.
In
the
last
couple
months,
three
dedicated
refi
Venture
funds
were
came
out.
Some
of
the
largest
investors
in
the
space
are
investing
in
refi
a16z,
for
example,
as
well
as
Varian
and
a
bunch
of
other
big
funds.
General
catalysts
are
all
investing
in
the
space
and
paying
attention
to
this
space.
So
it's
really
a
growing
space.
B
B
In
the
middle
of
you
know,
basically
at
the
height
of
the
last
Bull
Run,
and
it
became
very
interesting
and
what
happened
was
is
that
the
Legacy
carbon
Market,
the
existing
standard
bodies
who
issue
carbon
credits?
They
took
notice
of
this
and
they're
like
hold
on?
What
is
this
right
and
for
people
like
me,
who
have
been
in
this
space
in
sort
of
the
Impact
blockchain
says
for
a
while,
we've
been
having
conversate
we're
trying
to
have
conversations
with
these
standards
bodies
to
convince
them.
B
That
blockchain
is
the
right
technology
stack
for
carbon
credits
and
to
help
scale
this
market
and
for
years.
That
are
that
those
conversations
have
fallen
on
deaf
ears
and
all
of
a
sudden,
they
woke
up,
and
they
said
well,
what's
going
on
here,
they
put
a
pause
on
it
and
said
we
need
to
actually
now
look
at
this
and
what
was
really
like,
frankly,
amazing
about
this-
is
instead
of
saying.
Well,
let's
not
do
this.
Let's
stop
it!
B
We're
not
exploring
this
the
entire
industry,
the
three
largest
issuers
of
carbon
credits
that
cover
nearly
80
percent
of
all
issuance
of
carbon
credits,
actually
is
engaged
in
a
formal
process
to
say
in
the
same
way
that
they
normally
do
for
any
sort
of
innovation
and
Technology
to
say,
okay,
how
do
we
adopt
this?
How
do
we
build
this,
and
earlier
this
week
the
second
largest
issuer
of
carbon
credits,
gold
standard
actually
put
out
its
formal
announcement
that
it
is
moving
forward
with
tokenization
of
carbon
credits
in
an
official
way?
B
What's
like
amazing
about
this
is
I,
don't
know
of
any
other
industry
in
the
world
where
the
actual
issuing
bodies
of
an
asset
have
come
together
and
said,
we're
going
to
study
and
figure
out
how
to
use
blockchain
technology
to
move
our
industry
forward
and
to
help
scale
it.
So
this
is
a
really
massive
event
in
the
I
think
history
of
web
3,
as
well
as
certainly
the
history
of
the
voluntary
carpet
Market.
A
Yeah,
and-
and
on
top
of
that
also
what's
super
interesting
to
see-
is
that
talking
about
common
credits?
You
know
there
are
big
issues
on
how
they
are
data
backed
and
today
it's
Rio
pack,
so
it's
really
hard
to
actually
for
from
a
buyer
perspective
and
obviously
for
for
near
they've
been
there
and
on
many
other
corporates
and
and
maybe
some
of
you
in
the
room
when
you
have
ever
tried
to
buy
according
credits,
it's
almost
impossible
to
actually
know
what
you're
buying
and
our
you
know
our
Peak
here.
A
As
you
know,
a
web
3
not
only
open
Force
protocol,
but
it
also
different
protocols.
Building
on
on
Wave
three
is
to
say
now:
you
can
actually
have
everything
that
is
data
back,
so
you
can
actually
see
what
is
happening
from
the
data
capture
from
the
ground
or
from,
and
there
are
many
many
you
know,
companies
building
in
that
space.
A
We
are
obviously
focused
on
on
Forest
for
the
moment,
because
that's
it's
a
big
part
of
of
how
we
can
draw
down
carbon
for
for
addressing
the
the
climate
issue,
but
I
think
that's
super
interesting
to
see
because
we
we
see
as
as
fieldside.
You
know
that
the
usual
standards
moving
to
you
know,
web3.
We
see
new
companies
in
Webster
addressing
the
the
OPEC
or
transparent
issues
with
data
backed
credits.
So
it's
it's.
A
Basically
we
see
this
kind
of
merge
between
those
two
industries,
how
fast
it's
going
to
go
and
exactly
how
it's
going
to
go.
That's
still
to
be
seen,
but
it's
really
interesting
to
see
that
it's
happening
very
fast.
Actually,
so
it's
it's
in
the
last
in
the
last
couple
of
months
and
and
maybe
a
year.
B
Yeah,
what
I
I
think
it's
almost
worth
backing
up
for
one
second,
just
to
make
sure
everyone
is
on
the
same
page
about
what
a
carbon
credit
actually
is
and
how
they
get
used.
So
the
way
a
carbon
credit
works
is
a
project
goes
somewhere
in
the
world
and
it
does
something
that
either
prevents
the
emission
of
carbon
into
the
atmosphere
or
actually
removes
carbon
from
the
atmosphere.
So,
in
the
simple
example
of
Forestry
planting
some
trees,
trees
absorb
carbon
and
store
it
store
that
carbon.
So
you
can
get
a
carbon
credit
issued
for
that.
B
Offsetting
is
part
of
a
healthy
diet,
so
to
speak,
of
reducing
your
emissions,
but
offsetting
the
balance
and
offsetting
those
things
that
are
hard
to
admit,
and
so,
if
you
now
go
back
to
thinking
about
what
is
a
carbon
credit
fundamentally
right,
carbon
credit,
fundamentally,
is
data
applied
to
a
policy
framework
or
methodology
that
so
you
basically
collect
data
on
Source
at
the
site
of
where
you're
doing
your
carbon
project?
That
says
this
is
the
amount
of
carbon
in
this
year
that
is
being
captured
or
prevented
from
being
emitted.
B
Take
that
data
submit
it
to
a
issuing
body
or
a
standard
that
applies
that
data
to
a
policy
framework
and
methodology
and
out
the
other
side
comes
to
carbon
credit.
If
you
didn't
already
know,
this
is
a
perfect
use
case
for
blockchain
right,
where
you
have
this
transparency
layer,
you
have
the
data
stored
on
chain
and
you
can
have
sort
of
new
and
innovative
ways
of
creating
carbon
credits
and
measuring
and
doing
that
measurement
and
verification.
The
way
open
Forest
is.
A
Super
cool,
so
we've
talked
a
lot
about
carbon,
but
it's
on
not
only
about
carbon
refi
is
larger
than
carbon
and
I.
Think
one
point
to
make
also
is
that
it's
it's
a
growing
space
and
it's
also
a
space
where
we
collaborate
a
lot
together
as
an
example
when
we
started
our
project
back
in
2020,
we
were
thinking
about
building
a
Marketplace,
because
you
know
there
were
no
marketplaces
for
on-chain
common
credits,
and
then
you
know,
sometime
later,
you
know
you
have
low
carbon,
you
have
two.
Can
you
have
Tallow?
A
B
B
That
is,
that
forward
contract.
You
now
have
that
complete
trustless
State.
On
top
of
that,
you
can
then
take
those
carbon
credits
that
were
that
investors
put
Capital
into
and
sell
them
into
a
liquid
Market,
that's
also
on
chain,
and
so
you
create
this
very
elegant,
trustless
self-executing,
deep
Financial
system
that
you
can
then
take
and
build
very
complex
derivatives
on
top
of
and
if
you're
thinking
about
a
trillion
dollar
market,
similar
to
like
the
mortgage-backed
security
Market.
B
At
the
end
of
the
day,
it
hopefully
it'll
be
very
easy
to
onboard
large
institutional
Capital
into
this,
because
they
didn't
ask
the
question
in
two
before
2008,
when
they
were
investing
in
mortgage-backed
security.
What
databases
all
this
information
stored
in
now
we're
going
to
actually
move
that
forward
and
say
these
are
investable
products
for
you,
where
the
database
is
transparent.
You
actually
can
see
where
all
the
money
is
moving.
What
derivatives
are
built
on
top
of
it
and
actually
prevent
some
of
the
things
that
happened
in
2008
from
happening
super.
A
You
know
different
aspect
of
what
we
can
do
to
address
climate
sustainability
governance
and
it's
really
a
space
where
I
invite
you
to
you
know
deep
dive,
I
talk
to
people
around
and
just
learn
about
what's
happening,
because,
of
course
us
are
addressing
kind
of
the
high
level
issues,
they're,
not
the
main
issues,
but
there
are
so
many
other
issues
to
address.
You
know
on
the
on
eventually
on
on
on
on
the
plastic
side
of
things
how
to
address.
You
know
the
collection
of
plastic,
the
waste.
How
do
you
address
the
waste
issues?
A
How
do
you
address
eventually
renewable
energy
with
blockchain?
How
you
address
all
those
different
issues?
There
is
ESG
Dao
now
building
on
near
with
a
very
consumer
approach
on
how
to
rate
products
with
an
ESD
approach,
so
rating
products
is
also
something
that
is
coming
up.
So
there's
a
lot
a
whole
lot
of
things
that
we
can
build
and
near
is
really
becoming
the
place
to
do
that.