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A
Well,
hello,
good
afternoon,
hi
everybody,
it's
great
to
see
you
here.
Thank
you
very
much
for
coming
and
joining.
As
you
know,
this
is
the
the
legal
talks,
the
official
legal
talk
from
the
new
york
on,
and
we
are
just
happy
to
be
here.
First
things
first
and
be
sharing
just
our
insights
and
opinions
regarding
legal
with
the
community.
A
As
you
know,
we
are
the
the
near
legal
guild.
We
are
a
community
independent
community
of
lawyers
that
is
building
inside
of
the
community
and
we're
aiming
to
share
expertise
with
with
you
all
and
to
be
able
to
identify
your
concerns,
legal
concerns
and
to
actually
help
you
finding
solutions,
at
least
on
a
high
level
recommendations.
A
So
first
things
first
feel
free
to
reach
out
to
us
at
any
time
via
our
telegram
channel.
The
name
is
just
near
legal,
we're
active
on
twitter.
Our
website
will
be
soon
ready
where
we
will
be
sharing
materials
and
information,
and
today
panel,
as
you
know,
we
will
be
covering
legalities
from
two
two
main
topics
that
we
identified.
As
concerning
as
relevant
inside
of
the
community
number.
One
topic
is
the
daos.
A
We
have
been
reached
out
by
many
projects
inside
of
the
community.
With
this
concern,
we
want
to
set
up
an
activity,
a
crypt
activity.
We
don't
know
where
we
don't
know
how
and
we're
thinking
about
adopting
a
taoist
tractor.
Maybe
some
of
yourself
are
thinking
about
this
possibility,
so
we
hope
that
we
will
be
able
to
bring
some
insights
regarding
the
legalities
and
the
problematics,
but
also
the
possibilities
and
the
solutions.
A
As
you
know,
there
is
a
an
increasing
number
of
artists
inside
of
the
ecosystem
of
the
neo
ecosystem
that
are,
let's
just
say,
facing
travels
when
making
their
their
creation.
Their
nft
is
available
online,
so
we
will
be
covering
today
we
will
be
talking
about
like
ib
licensing.
How
can
you
protect
your
your
the
ownership
of
your
creation,
even
though,
regarding,
like
the
the
pure
nature
itself
of
the
nfd's?
How
should
they
be
understood?
Is
it
the
software?
This
is
just
like
some
other
kind
of
like
manifestation
digital
manifestation.
A
So
these
two
topics
we
could
identify
as
more
relevant
right
now
in
the
community.
There
are
more
things
that
we
are
advising
the
the
projects
to
take
in
consideration:
kyc
anti-money
laundering
due
diligence,
privacy
and
data
protection,
since
you
guys
are
building
applications
on
top
of
the
near
technology,
also
be
aware
that
data,
private
data
and
sensitive
data
when
feeding
the
application
needs
to
be
handled
in
some
in
some
way.
So
for
today
we
have
for
today's
panel.
We
have
here
thomas
thomas
nagel
from
nagel
attorneys
law.
They
are
based
in
luxembourg.
A
This
is
a
true
lisa's
time.
Sorry
pardon
this
is
a
true
blessing
to
have
to
have
thomas
here
today
and
to
be
able
to
listen
to
his
opinions.
He's
one
of
the
most
like
relevant
voices.
I
would
say
right
now
in
the
crypto
crypto
world.
So
thanks
for
joining
our
panel
thomas
and
on
my
right
here
is
anival
suriel
he's
coming
from
dubai.
A
Did
I
say
right,
yeah,
nice,
dubai
and
he's
just
a
team
member
also
from
the
legal
guild.
Again,
we
will
be
in
the
lounge
room
after
the
the
talk
so
feel
free
to
reach
out
at
us
at
any
time
and
above
on
top
of
this,
all
we
are
just
here
to
to
have
fun
yeah.
So
we
want
you
also
to
to
have
like
a
good
talk,
a
legal
talk.
A
A
Just
by
addressing
one
thing,
the
fact
yeah
just
a
second
there,
it
works.
So
the
fact
that
we're
gonna
start
the
panel
talking
about
daos,
yes
and
it's
important
to
mainly
first
run
a
definition
of
what's
a
dao.
Why?
Because,
if
you
guys
are
planning
on
adopting
this
kind
of
like
legal
entity
structure,
you
should
maybe
first
start
by
understanding.
What's
a
dao,
so
there
is
no
an
official
definition.
A
We
didn't
reach
out
to
that
point
yet.
But
there
is
some
kind
of
consensus
regarding
what
should
be
understood
as
a
dao
in
order
to
assimilate
legal
effects
to
this
kind
of
like
newly
born
entity.
So
at
dao
the
definition
puri
itself
could
be
understood
as
the
entity
entity
created
by
the
deployment
of
autonomous
self-executing
software,
which
is
basically
a
smart
contract
normally
on
a
distributed
system
such
as
the
rner
protocol.
A
That
allows
a
network
of
participants
to
interact
and
manage
resources
on
a
transparent
basis.
So
let's
try
to
decode
this
definition,
because
there
are
some
key
elements
in
here
that
we
should
be
taking
in
good
consideration.
What's
an
entity,
let's
define
an
entity
first.
Should
my
group
of
people
group
of
like
assets
be
understood
as
an
entity
itself,
an
entity
can
be
defined
as
something
that
exists
separately
from
other
things,
and
that
has
like
an
individual
identity
of
its
own.
A
A
dao
can
form
an
identifiable
identifiable
identity,
individual
identity
that
exists
separately
from
the
development
of
any
kind
of
like
concrete
solution
or
it's
participants.
This
is
relevant
because
we
need
to
understand
the
the
dao
itself,
the
entity
as
independent,
from
whatever
other
kind
of,
like
related
just
elements
that
could
compound
it.
Yeah
a
dao
uses
a
software
that
we
know.
A
Normally,
we
tend
to
use
the
smart
contracts
as
the
the
core
component
that
found
it
dao,
and
the
relevant
thing
here
is
that
it
becomes
some
autonomous
from
any
other
entity
or
natural
legal
person
that
could
compound
this
kind
of
association.
Yes,
number
three
key
element
is
that
it
runs
on
a
distributed
system.
The
technology
that
normally
a
dao
is
adopting
is
a
blockchain
technology,
and
it
also
implies
that
the
information
is
distributed
among
nodes.
A
As
we
all
know,
this
is
a
core
component
of
our
technology
and,
lastly,
it's
relevant
to
say
that
the
dao
allows
the
network
of
participants
to
just
pursue
a
final
goal.
It
needs
to
be
organized
or
understood
as
organized
somehow
we
will
talk
about
this
later,
so
just
in
order
to
start
the
introductions
and
I'll.
Just
give
the
the
word
to
my
my
colleagues.
I
wanted
to
talk
about
whoa,
we
lost
it.
A
Hey,
hey,
hey,
hey,
hey,
yes,
he's
back,
so
we
wanted
to
just
like
paint
some
historical
legislations,
countries
that
have
advanced
dealing
with
the
dowse,
and
this
is
relevant
because
if
you
are
planning
on
the
setting
up
a
crypto
activity
through
a
dao,
we
are
getting
at
the
legal
heal.
Some
questions
regarding:
where
should
we
start
now?
Is
it
better
for
me
to
go
to
portugal?
Is
it
better
for
me
to
go
to
switzerland
to
lichenstein?
Where
should
I
start
consider
cons?
Where
should
I
consider
starting
the
activity?
A
Yeah
number
one
country
that
started
trying
to
recognize
dao
as
an
entity
itself
was
monaco
in
2017..
This
is
interesting
because
they
recognize
that
just
the
the
code
itself
run
by
the
smart
contract.
The
orders
that
we
are
we're
programming
could
be
recognized
as
having
legal,
binding
effects,
and
this
is
interesting
because
remember
that
we
are
creating
like
a
legal
relationship
out
of
pure
code,
this
changed
everything.
We
started
to
see
that
the
code
was
evolving
into
something
else
low
as
code
and
cause
cut
encode
as
low.
A
So
this
changed
the
way
that
we
understood
smart
contracts
and
the
way
that
we
were
able
to
automatize
things.
They
created
the
concept
called
algorithmic
company,
which
was
very
interesting,
so
they
defined
the
smart
contracts
and
this
entity
through
an
algorithmic
company.
However,
they
didn't
grant
like
legal
personality
to
this
smart
contract
association.
So,
sadly,
the
development
of
the
law
just
finished
up
focusing
on
icos
during
2019,
and
we
couldn't
just
pursue
some
kind
of
like
legal
definition
of
what's
down.
How
should
it
understood
but
anyways?
A
It
was
like
the
a
good
starting
point.
Malta
then
jumped
in
the
in
the
game
and
they
2018
they
just
tried
to
regulate
or
set
up
a
regulatory
framework.
Yes,
they
created
something
as
a
bill
as
a
law
called
the
digital
innovation,
innovative
framework
yeah,
and
by
with
this
innovating
framework,
they
created
something
called
itas
innovative
technology
arrangements
and
services.
Well,
itas
are
just
like
a
peculiar
solution.
Yes,
these
kind
of
like
entities
that
were
born
instead
of
the
maltese
legislation.
A
Instead
of
giving
them
like
this
100
legal
personality,
they
just
created
a
link
between
the
natural
person
who
was
behind
this
entity
in
order
to
just
be
able
to
avoid
liability.
Who
is
responsible
in
case
that
the
damage
is
cost.
So
the
multi
solution
is
just
like
to
identify
these
organizations,
the
natural
persons
that
actually
are
going
to
run
these
organizations
and
in
order
to
be
compliant
and
avoid
liability.
Yes,
so
whoever
is
thinking
about
like
setting
up
a
crypto,
dao
company,
just
autonomous
decentralized
organization,
just
a
recommendation,
maybe
don't
go
to
malta.
A
This
is
just
a
personal
personal
opinion.
Yes,
the
first
case
and
I'll.
Let
my
colleagues
speak
the
first
place
of
a
first
ever
recognized
legal
entity
in
the
crypto
space
happened
in
vermont
in
the
u.s
in
2018,
the
us
crazy,
because
they
have
a
regulated
market,
highly
regulated
market,
even
though
they
were
the
the
first
country
in
given
the
first
step.
So
was
recognizing
this.
This
kind
of
like
entities,
so
in
vermont,
a
dao
as
recognized
as
itself,
can
enter
into
contractual
agreements
and
have
legal
effects,
as
we
understood
it.
A
Naturally,
and,
as
you
know,
the
u.s
again
made
headlines
on
the
international
scope
by
signing
a
bill
called
the
wyoming
bill.
You've
heard
about
this,
and
this
is
the
first
time
that
they
are
recognized
per
se
hundred
percent
as
the
dows.
So
this
is
kind
of
like
the
evolution
that
we
have
been
seeing
with
these
organizations.
The
panorama
is
still
not
clear
and
we're
hoping
that
we
will
bring
the
conversation
towards
these
topics.
A
Here
we
got
the
opinion
of
thomas
who
has
like
first-hand
experience
in
in
his
country
and
also
from
an
evil
who
has
been
dealing
with
this
in
dubai.
So
let
me
just
come
here
to
you
guys,
and
I
would
like
maybe
for
you
to
address
the
the
dao
situation
and
the
dao
issue
from
your
perspective.
Tell
us
about
dubai.
How
did
you
see
this
in
dubai?
Moreover,
why
do
you
think
the
taos
could
definitely
change
the
scope
of
what
we're
doing
and
same
for
you,
thomas.
I'm,
really
curious
about
liechtenstein.
A
B
Thank
you,
so
I
just
want
to
ground
the
conversation
really
quick
and
just
point
out
why
this
topic
is
important
to
you
all
and
why
it
should
be
important
to
you
all.
I
know
the
current
trend
is
to
oh,
hey,
let's,
let's
create
a
doubt
for
this:
let's
do
it
as
quickly
as
possible,
knowing
how
the
entire
crypto
industry
works,
but
it's
important
to
slow
down
and
see
what
your
own
personal
liability
can
be
in
terms
of
dials.
Let's
say
you
want
to
create
a
dow
for
distributing
funds
to
invest
in.
B
I
don't
know
certain
tokens
or
certain
nfts.
What
can
happen
there
is
in
a
lot
of
jurisdictions.
What
you're
doing
in
conjunction
with
your
other
down
members,
can
be
seen
as
a
general
partnership,
and
what
does
that
mean
for
you
guys?
That
means
each
and
every
member
can
be
personally
and
several
severally
liable
for
any
sort
of
liabilities
that
may
stem
from
those
those
transactions
and
whatnot.
Maybe
the
government
will
find
that
you
guys
are
doing
a
regulated
activity.
B
You
guys
never
registered
and
you'll
get
a
fine
of,
let's
say
a
hundred
thousand
dollars.
So
what
does
that
mean?
That
means,
if
the
government
reaches
out
to
one
of
the
members
that
one
member
could
go
ahead
and
rope
in
every
other
member,
and
then
there
there
starts
a
lawsuit.
Nobody
wants
to
deal
with
that
in
terms
of
dubai,
the
uae
they're
very
forward
in
terms
of
creating
guidance
for
for
for
these
sort
of
organizations
and
crypto
activities.
B
I
think
the
the
first
questions
you
guys
should
ask
is:
where
should
I
incorporate
and
there's
generally
about
three
ways-
countries
approach
it
it's
either?
We
don't
want
to
deal
with
it
at
all,
we'll
wait
and
see
like
the
u.s
or
we
want
to
create
the
sort
of
guidance
for
you
guys
to
look
at.
So
you
feel
safe
enough
to
do
the
business
and
not
have
to
worry
about.
B
C
C
We
call
it
tvtg
or
also
known
as
the
blockchain
act,
and
we
already
heard
that
the
first
thing
what
we
want
to
have
as
a
dao
is:
we
want
to
have
it
as
an
entity
and
if
you
want
to
have
a
dao
as
an
entity,
it
has
to
be
reflected
in
your
corporate
like
depending
on
the
jurisdiction,
but
in
most
jurisdictions
you
have
to
use
one
of
the
corporate
forms.
The
problem
is,
and
that
was
perfectly
described
by
anibal.
C
If
you,
if
you
then
think
about
what
other
corporate
forms
we
have
like,
let's
say
a
limited
or
an
llc,
or
a
cooperative,
most
of
them,
they're
not
really
suitable,
because
what
we
need
when
we
think
about
dowels,
is
actually
two
things.
First
of
all,
you
have
to
become
a
member
of
a
dao
just
with
the
use
of
blockchain
right.
You
don't
want
to
file
whatever
piece
of
paperwork
or
whatever
you
just
want
to
to
use
blockchain
right,
so
you
have
to
to
to
solve
that
problem.
First,
that
is
already
solved
in
liechtenstein.
C
It's
possible
to
be
a
member
of
a
company.
You
can
found
a
fully
digital
company
from
day
one.
You
issue
your
shareholder
rights
within
within
the
form
of
token.
That
is,
that
is
possible.
The
second
thing
is,
and
that
I
think
that's
that's
a
rather
challenging
one
is
how
you
actually
come
to
consensus
and
deciding
on
behalf
of
the
entity.
C
What
we
do
normally
is
like
we
say:
okay,
every
year
we
have
a
general
assembly
for
for
your
limited
and
this
general
assembly
decides
on
who
is
actually
running
the
company
from
an
operational
point
of
view,
who
is
actually
the
ceo
and
they
should
then
actually
just
execute
on
on
on
the
strategy.
So
the
all
of
the
minor
decisions
throughout
the
year
are
not
done
by
the
general
assembly.
So
not
everybody
is
voting
right,
that's,
and
why
is
that
the
case?
It's
just
simple.
C
So
we
should
reflect
that
and
use
that
power
and
then
end
up
with
having
a
solution
where
we
we,
we
are
a
member
or
we
become
a
member
of
a
dao
just
with
the
use
of
technology
and
the
company
is
run
only
by
decisions.
You
define
the
consensus,
maybe
majority
or
whatsoever,
and
that
has
to
be
reflected
within
the
jurisdiction,
and
these
are
the
the
two
major
little
other
challenges.
C
But
these
are
the
two
major
challenges
and
I
think
a
good
concept
would
be-
and
I
propose
that
actually
to
the
liechtenstein
government
is
to
use
the
cooperative
as
a
general
model
where
you
have
members
but
reflect
that
that
that
voting
mechanism
on
a
second
that's
the
second
thing
you
have
to
solve.
It
is
just
a
proposal
for
now
and
I'm
happy
to
discuss
with
everybody.
If
you
have
anything
else
which
which
comes
to
your
mind
or
where
you
have
issues.
C
This
would
actually,
firstly
address
the
liability
issue
because
for
a
cooperative,
only
the
cooperative
is
liable,
not
the
members
of
the
cooperative,
and
the
second
thing
is:
if
you
change
that
you
can
actually
let
the
the
consensus
algorithm
decide
or
you
decide
all
the
members
decide
on
on
what
is
on
the
table,
and
I
think
what
we
need
is,
and
it's
not
like
that
this
country
is
doing
it
well
or
this
country
is
doing
it
wrong.
No,
that's
not
the
case.
C
I
think
we
have
to
learn
from
every
approach
and
I
I
really
hope
that
and
that's
the
biggest
thing
every
with
every
legal
discussion
I
have
with
every
regulator.
Please
try
to
understand
what
the
technology
is
all
about,
because
people
need
education
and
regulators
need
education.
Imagine
if
you
throw
questions
at
them.
C
They
have
no
clue
what
you're
talking
about
you're,
using
buzzwords
like
nft
and
and
defy
and
and
taos,
and
they
just
don't
understand,
but
if
you
narrow
it
down
to
the
simple
questions
or
the
the
simple
problems,
normally
you're
able
to
find
solutions
with
good
regulators
right
and
that's
what
we
are
here.
For
I
mean
these
guys
talk
to
these
folks;
they
they
will,
they
will
actually
broker
your
information
to
the
regulators
and
that's
that's
what
is
needed.
I
think.
A
C
D
A
It's
just
about
like
mixing
it
properly,
and
this
is
like
at
least
a
regulatory
approach
that
we
should
be
having
extracting
what's
good
from
any
country,
any
legislations
and
just
try
to
apply
it
and
make
it
like
a
framework
that
could
help
actually
help
and
solve
the
problems
not
regulate
by
regulating
only
there
must
be
a
purpose
for
regulating,
and
this
is
the
right
approach,
in
my
opinion,
so
in
I
would
like
to
just
like
to
land
the
examples
coming
back
to
this
liability
issue,
which
is
key
regarding
a
dao.
We
all
think
about.
A
Like
okay,
should
I
be
responsible
for
what
my
organization
decentralized
organization
is
doing?
How
would
it
work
think
about
this
example?
Think
about
a
dao,
an
entity
just
a
group
of
people
that
is
just
operating
internationally?
Yes,
and
these
are
could
be
formed
by
the
people
in
different
countries.
Let's
just
say
the
us
and
japanese,
yes,
and
this
dao
somehow
just
creates
a
damage
to
a
third
party,
and
this
third
party
choose
the
organization.
How
does
it
work
and
like
in
real
life?
A
How
should
they
pursue
some
kind
of
like
responsibilities
like
the
damage
party?
So
we
have
like
these
two
situations.
If
we
understand
that
the
dao
is
an
unrecognized
now
and
should
be
understood
as
a
general
partnership,
all
of
the
the
members
could
be
understood
as
liable.
So
the
the
plaintiff,
the
person
who
would
be
pursuing
responsibility
only
would
need
to
go
against
one
of
the
partners
and
then
all
of
the
partners
would
be
just
responsible
to
the
one
that
actually
covered
the
damage.
A
This
is
a
risk
if
we're
planning
on
entering
a
business
and
especially
regarding
the
international
issues.
Yes,
so
in
order
to
avoid
that,
the
proposal
is
just
to
understand
the
dao
as
an
entity
with
a
limited
liability
responsibility,
and
I
would
like
to
go
with
stop
farting
and
the
proposal
that
has
been
around
for
a
long
time
now
is
to
create
blockchain
based
limited
liability
companies,
and
this
is
possible.
We
can
do
it,
there
is
a
possibility
to
do
it.
A
We
just
need
to
find
the
better
framework,
the
buyer
environment,
to
do
it,
so
the
dows
are
really
interesting,
even
though
it
sounds
like
it's
all
problems,
it
isn't.
To
be
honest,
you
know
if
you
are
capable
of
set
up
the
proper
way
on
how
to
do
this.
The
possibilities
are
immense
for
your
project
to
grow
and
to
exponentially,
adopt
and
disrupt
the
market
in
ways
that
we
never
understood.
A
We
are
automatizing
relations
right
now
I
can
have
like
a
relation
with
somebody
in
singapore
in
china
and
whenever
the
condition
is
met,
it
automatically
is
executing
itself
just
creating
legal,
binding
relations
between
the
parties.
This
is
true
power
and
we
are
full
supporters
of
the
daos.
But
again
we
need
to
find
the
proper
well
to
the
proper
way
to
regulate
this
kind
of
entities.
So
hopefully
we
will
be
able
to
cook
the
soup
tasty.
We
want
it
to
be
tasty
and
and
to
be
nice
for
all
of
us
yeah.
A
Regarding
some
concrete
examples-
and
this
time
I
know
that
this
is
not
the
idea,
the
ideal
situation
to
approach
a
country
than
to
point
out
what
they
are
doing,
but
I
have
to
be
fair
with
my
new
hometown
country
with
switzerland.
I
just
moved
there
a
couple
of
months
ago
and
I'm
loving
it
great
mountains,
great
wine.
Everything
is
perfect,
but,
moreover,
just
think
about
like
the
the
friendly
legislation
over
there-
and
this
is
one
of
the
reasons
that
I
decided
to
move
there
in.
A
So
there
is
shout
out
to
the
to
the
swiss
government
actually,
because
if
someone
is
twisting
here
shout
out
to
you,
so
they
are
doing
something
really
interesting.
That
I'd
like
to
just
point
out
here.
Yes,
the
the
swiss
system
by
this
system,
you
can
recognize
entities
in
two
different
ways
as
an
association
of
persons
or
as
an
organized
assets,
and
if
you're
doing
things
properly,
regarding
the
way
that
you're
organizing
these
these
components,
you
could
be
recognized
also
as
an
as
a
decentralized
entity.
A
If
you
are
meeting
some
some
requirements,
the
key
requirement
is
that
the
the
activities
must
be
organized
somehow,
meaning
that
you
should
be
having
some
kind
of
like
formal
organization
within
your
organization.
There
should
be
an
administrator
that
is
independent
from
the
the
managing
independently
the
assets
of
the
entity
that
operates
independently
from
the
entity.
A
Yes,
so
this
is
the
example
for
foundations,
for
example,
for
associations
and
for
private
equity
funds,
some
models
that
a
lot
of
projects
are
are
trying
to
just
like
adopt,
but
we
feel
that
it's
important
also
to
point
out
that
this
is
key
to
understand
this,
the
nature
of
this
kind
of
like
entities
and
agreements
in
order
to
be
able
to
operate
in
the
crypto
space.
So
I
just
wanted
to
point
out
this.
C
I
think
on
a
global
scale,
I'm
rather
skeptic,
because
everybody
tries
to
to
find
their
own
solutions,
and
there
is
no
such
thing
as
harmonize
corporate
laws
globally.
So
I
don't
think
that
this
is
happening
and
actually
it's
it's.
There
are
other
areas
where
you
have
to
think
quite
intensely
about
so,
for
example,
the
two
models
we
have
with
the
general
partnership
or
the
association
and
the
cooperative.
This
has
like
I'm
another
tax
expert,
but
this
has
severe
tax
implications
right.
C
C
I
think
that
to
to
to
deal
with
the
dao
thing,
that's
happening
globally
right,
everybody
is
thinking
about
or
a
lot
of
legislators
think
about
how
to
to
deal
with
these
issues,
and
I
think
what
your
we
had
to
question
which
jurisdiction
you
should
use.
My
my
my
advice
always
is:
try
it
at
home.
First
of
all,
ask
a
local
council:
try
it
at
home.
Crossing
borders
is
always
challenging
if
you
have
to
cross
borders,
consult
with
with
people
who
already
did
that
and
and
get
advice.
C
I
think
because,
as
we
said,
there
are
really
severe
legal
consequences.
Just
if
you,
if
you
don't
know
what
you're
doing-
and
I
really
hope
and
that's
for
for
everybody
like
get
in
touch
with
regulators-
ask
them
questions
because
they
have
to
answer
right.
I
mean
some
of
them
have
to
answer
and
they
have
to
get
it.
They
have
to
get
educate
themselves
right.
They
have
to
to
provide
you
with
good
answers,
and
that's
the
only
thing.
A
I
would
like
to
ask
you,
because
you
got
the
first-hand
experience
regarding
the
us,
and
maybe
we
just
run
through
the
let's
just
say,
like
the
closest
definition
that
we
can
provide
of
a
dao
which
is
interesting
from
a
legal
point
of
view
because
of
its
components,
but
also,
let's
try
to
talk
about
like
the
different
types
of
lao
that
could
be
categorized
yeah
regarding
the
u.s
legislation.
So
you
get
experience.
What
could
you
tell
us
about
like
how
is
this
actually
happening
in
the
us.
B
B
They
change
the
whole
process
as
to
how
members
can
be
accepted
into
the
company
and
whatnot.
They
made
it
so
that
you
can
recognize
the
the
smart
contract
as
the
actual
entity
itself
and
whatnot.
So
what
the
dao,
what
the
wyoming
legislation
did
was
create.
I
guess
what
I
call
a
true
dao
when
you
have
it
so
that
you
never
sort
of
saw
incorporation
you
just
kind
of
went
for
it.
B
I
would
refer
to
that
as
an
unrecognized
dow
and
then
there's
something
in
the
middle,
which
is
called
the
maverick
dial,
which
is
where
people
go
ahead
and
kind
of
retrofit
their
dow
into
traditional
llc
formats.
It's
possible
to
do,
but
for
that
you
really
do
need
special,
not
special,
but
like
legal
counsel,
to
go
ahead
and
make
all
the
changes
to
the
articles
of
association
to
go
ahead
and
recognize
pretty
much
everything.
B
A
I
love
to
just
close
the
argument
on
dallas
because
we're
going
to
jump
on
the
nft
soon,
but
I
love
to
do
one
thing,
thomas
and
andy
well,
and
I
would
like
to
ask
from
you
one
sentence
to
just
like
some
of
a
key
key
idea
in
your
opinion
regarding
the
dows.
So
you
have
something
in
mind
the
key
idea.
One
key
idea
for
you
regarding
the
house
that
you
can
sum
up
in
one
sentence.
C
B
If
there's
one
takeaway
for
me,
it
would
be
think
about
what
you
want
to
do.
Do
you
really
need
to
include
a
dial
in
that
mix?
It
could
be
a
headache
in
and
of
itself,
but
it's
it's
really
interesting.
What's
gonna
happen
in
the
future?
Who
knows
there's
so
many
different
applications
that
you
could
use
for
this?
You
know
employee
unions,
making
collective
rights,
managers
and
stuff
like
that,
so
yeah
just
just
think
about
what
you
want
to
do
and
see.
A
So
I'm
just
gonna
close
the
the
argument
of
the
dollars
with
my
own
personal
opinion,
which
is
a
bit
more
of
like
a
romantic
idea,
but
it's
just
here.
So
I
used
to
to
hear
that
the
taos
are
the
future
and
the
blockchain
is
the
future,
specifically
the
daos,
and
I
would
like
to
say
that
the
the
taos
are
the
present
and
they
are
here
to
stay
for
a
really
long
time.
A
So
just
pay
good
attention
open
the
ears
and
the
eyes,
because
we
will
be
hearing
a
lot
more
about
the
dao's
in
the
upcoming
future
yeah.
So
now
that
we
have
covered
the
dao
problematics,
we
would
like
to
address
also
something
that
is
key
in
the
community.
We
have
a
lot
of
artists
here
in
the
room
shout
out
to
all
the
artists
who
are
building
on
top
of
the
blockchain
and
specifically
on
the
near
protocol.
A
This
is
a
a
great
moment
to
be
alive
and
to
be
creating
and
from
the
legal
deal
we
want
to
support.
You
guys
support
all
the
artists
who
are
brave
enough
to
disrupt
the
traditional
models
and
they
are
doing
different
things
and
we're
also
being
conscious
more
and
more
about
the
the
problematics
when
an
artist
just
creates
choosing
a
blockchain
based
solution,
a
block
chain
based
piece,
let's
just
say,
backed
by
by
this
technology.
A
That
gives
us
a
lot
of
possibilities,
but
that
also
brings
a
lot
of
problematics
on
the
table.
How
can
I
protect
my
my
my
work?
What
can
I
do
if
I
see
that
my
my
work
has
been
modified
or
even
copied
whenever
it
is
that
I
make
it
online
as
a
person
as
an
individual
as
an
author?
What
can
I
do?
What
could
I
do
in
order
to
enforce
some
kind
of
like
protection
in
general
terms,
so
anyway,
I
think
you
came
up
with
like
a
definition
for
a
token
for
an
nft.
B
Sure
so
I
think
our
audience
knows
the
more
technical
sides
of
nfts
that
their
software
and
whatnot,
a
lot
of
you,
are
aware
that
nfts
right
now
was
turned
into
a
billion
dollar
industry.
You
know
it's
mostly
the
art,
but
there
are
a
lot
of
different
applications
to
it.
You
could
use
it
to
transfer
ip
rights
for
music
and
and
and
so
the
basic
definition
that
I
sort
of
came
up
with.
Obviously
reading
a
bunch
of
different
literature
is
that
it
should
be
viewed
as
a
digital
container.
B
A
C
C
C
We
call
it
tt
identifier
to
be
technologically
neutral
and
the
beauty
of
all
of
that
is
that
this
legislation,
I
always
refer
to
it
as
that's
the
enforcement
layer.
So
you
have
the
technology
like
the
blockchain,
where
you
have
the
transaction,
where
you
transfer
the
token
from
party
to
party,
and
this
legal
framework
provides
you
with
the
enforcement
layer.
C
You
can
call
the
court
and
say
please
send
the
police
and
give
me
my
piece
of
art
right
and
that's
what
is
needed
right.
If,
if
we
want
to
have
this
the
enforceability
of
our
digital
transactions,
I
know
I
I
pers
for
sure
I
know
I
mean
there
are
transactions
where
you
don't
need
to
enforce
anything,
because
everything
is
already
transferred.
C
They
don't
see
the
big
picture
and
the
big
picture
really
is
that
we
are
heading
to
a
token
economy.
What
we
are
doing
is
that
we
use
these
technologies
to
digitize
the
way
how
we
interact
with
each
other.
So
this
is
so
powerful
and,
like
most
people,
don't
get
that
yet.
But
I
mean
we're
talking
about
nfts.
This
is
really
like.
It's
really
groundbreaking
right.
C
You
have
like
to
to
transfer
these
things
without
intermediaries
is,
is
amazing
right,
but
you
need
to
have
this,
this
enforcement
layer,
this
digital
container
and
that's
a
concept
that
token
container
model,
I'm
I
I
really
I
I
mean
I'm
happy
to
discuss
or
talk
about
that
for
hours,
but
I
don't
want
to
to
to
move
the
topic
to
another
one.
I
really
want
to
laugh.
A
We
are
here
for
that.
I
guess
that
we're
willing
to
to
listen
more
about
the
end
of
this,
and
I
I
won't
let
you
escape
this
this
conversation,
and
I
I
want
to
dig
up
more,
even
so
now
that
we
know
that
this
definition
as
a
digital
container,
it
could
perfectly
fit
with
what
an
nft
is,
and
we
understand
that
this
is
a
precious
piece
of
work,
a
precious,
precious
thing
that
we
should
maybe
acknowledge
as
existent
and
with
just
like
legal
effects
in
the
real
world.
A
How
do
you
feel
about
the
protection
of
this
the
potential
protection
for
these
pieces
of
our
digital
pieces
of
art?
Do
you
think
that
the
general
ip
licensing
considerations
are
directly
applicable
to
nfts
as
well?
Do
you
think
that
the
protection
should
be
addressed
from
a
different
point
of
view,
because
I'm
guessing
that
the
artists
here
might
be
also
wondering
in
case
that
something
happens
to
my
creation?
C
I
can
only
talk
about
lichenstein,
I
think
it's,
it's
almost
the
same
in
a
lot
of
european
jurisdictions.
The
concept
is
the
same
with
licensing
rights,
because
if
with
ip
writes,
if
the
cr,
the
creator
gets
the
rights
when
he
creates
the
the
the
the
the
what's,
it
called
like
the
the
not
art
like,
but
but
the
what
he's
creating
right
and
as
soon
as
he
creates
something
then
he's
the
owner
of
all
of
the
rights
right.
So
you
don't
have
to
do
anything.
C
The
only
thing
what
you
have
to
do
is
you
have
to
prove
that
you
created
it
right
and
then
you
you
are
actually
the
ip
rights
belong
to
you
and
blockchain.
I
mean
good
story
right.
Blockchain
is
perfectly
well
doing
in
like
time,
stamping
things
so
if
you
create
something
hash
it
and
do
a
blockchain
transaction,
and
you
have
like
a
good
proof
that
at
this
moment
in
time,
you
created
this
piece
of
information
right
so
for
digital
only
things,
I
think
not
a
lot
of
amendments
are
actually
needed.
C
A
A
It's
based
on
the
vern
combustion,
which
is
running
out
like
for
a
long
time
now
by
the
world
intellectual
property
organization,
and
this
is
basically,
if
you're,
able,
as
thomas
said,
to
prove
that
you
are
the
real
owner,
the
creator
for
the
piece
of
art.
You
will
have
rotation
during
all
the
time
that
you're
living
plus
70
years.
This
is
just
like
the
general
like
time
frame
where
you
will
get
like
100
protection,
so
think
about
it.
This
is
powerful.
A
This
is
a
long
time
you
can
do
a
lot
of
stuff
regarding,
like
the
what
we
have
right
now.
The
protection
that
we
have
now
is
more
about
the
artists
to
actually
know
how
to
do
this.
So
we
would
need
to
go
just
like
to
general
considerations
regarding
how
to
protect
the
mic,
even
though
just
think
about
the
protecting
the
the
work
terms,
just
the
same
as
if
I'm
writing
a
book
or
just
like
painting
a
physical
painting.
Yes,
the
protection
should
be
understood
as
the
same
and
the
system
works.
A
B
No,
so
I
just
wanted
to
add
so
where
I
guess
state
and
governments
can't
come
in
to
protect
you.
It's
always
worth
looking
at
what
you
can
do
on
your
own
individual
basis
and
that
would
be
to
just
create
licenses
for
for
the
nfts
that
you're
issuing.
So
what
let's
say
you
create
a
piece
of
our
you
issue
it
as
an
nft.
B
The
only
license
you
have
at
that
moment
when
you
sell
it
at
least,
is
the
implied
license
which
has
to
do
with
the
circumstances
around
the
sale,
any
sort
of
terms
and
conditions
you
included,
maybe
in
an
email
where
you
were
selling
the
product,
but
that's
only
gonna
protect.
You
know
for
those
express
those
express
issues
that
you
two
may
have
covered
so
as
an
artist
it.
B
C
Another
thing
is:
we
said
that
you
can
prove
that
you
created
the
creation
right
with
the
token
that's
fine,
but
on
the
other
hand,
what
happens
if
you
lose
and
like
not
specifically
talking
about
one
technology,
but
if
you
lose
a
private
key
and
you're
not
able
to
to
be
actually
to
dispose
over
the
token,
but
you
should
still
be
the
creator
right.
So
you
have
that
the
legal
system
has
to
to
provide
answers
there
as
well,
for
example,
in
liechtenstein.
We
we
have
in
our
blockchain
act.
C
We
have
one
provision
which
actually
allows
you
that
you
can
prove
that
you
were
the
last
one
being
able
to
dispose
over
the
token
and
you
just
lose
lost
your
private
key.
You
have
a
court
decision,
and
after
six
months
you
can,
if
techno
from
a
technological
point
of
view
possible.
We
all
know
you
have
to
do
that
before
you
actually
deploy
the
smart
contract.
C
A
What
happens
if
I
actually
want
to
just
like
make
dividends
of
small
parts
of
my
my
creation?
Can
I
just
like
freely
transmit
it,
or
should
I
just
operate
with
the
token,
the
nft
itself
as
a
piece?
How
does
it
work
in
the
real
world?
So
this
is
number
one
question
and
number
one
two.
I
would
like
to
also
address
the
royalties
that
we
are
getting
out
of
our
creations.
So
how
does
it
work
on
a
on
an
international
point
of
view,
and
how
should
we
understand
the
royalties?
A
B
B
There's
this
concept
that
I'm
sure
you
all
are
aware
of
called
fractionalization,
and
what
is
that
that
is
just
let's
say,
taking
one
piece
of
nft
and
turning
it
into
10
pieces.
That
way,
you
have
the
chance
to
go
ahead
and
invest
in,
let's
say
10
of
that
nft.
So
this
goes
into.
I
guess
shady
territory
coming
from
a
us
background.
B
This
could
potentially
be
seen
as
something
called
an
investment
contract,
and
what
is
that?
That's
a
security
in
the
u.s
there's
something
called
the
howie
test,
which
has
four
prongs:
it's
if
there's
a
common
investment
of
money
with
the
expectation
of
profits
based
off
the
efforts
of
other
people,
so
somebody
may
look
at
this
discharged
nft
and
they
may
look
at
what
users
are
expecting
they
they
may
expect.
B
Oh,
the
value
is
going
to
go
up
and
and
there's
this
party
behind
it,
that's
pushing
it
in
certain
circles,
saying
oh
wow
this
this
nft
is
going
to
blow
up
in
value
et
cetera,
et
cetera.
That
can
be
seen
as
an
unregistered
security
which
comes
with
its
own
litany
of
issues.
Actually,
so
it's
it's
worth
looking
at
your
own
jurisdiction,
where
you're
operating
out
of
where
you
created
the
nft,
where
you,
where
you
fractionalize
that
nft
to
see
what
law
is
applicable.
C
I
think
that's
another
concept,
which
is
quite
interesting,
fractionalization
of
nfts.
I
that's
also
covered
in
our
actually
legislation.
We
because
we
are
so
technologically
neutral.
We
don't
talk
in
the
act
itself.
We
don't
talk
about
blockchain
or
dlt.
Like
it's
never
mentioned,
we
call
it
trusted
technologies
and
nfts
are
covered
as
well
like
we
we
had.
We
had
the
discussion
and
the
idea
was
to
to
use
non-fungible
tokens
so
tokens
who
are
identifiable,
which
can
just
be
a
token
id
right.
C
Nothing
else
I
mean
just
to
have
like
one
token,
is
not
the
same
as
the
other
one
to
use
them
to
represent
rights
again
right
and
what
is
the
interesting
part
here
again
if
you
have
a
physical
object,
a
physical
piece
of
art
like
let's
say
the
mona
lisa,
that's
my
my
example.
I
always
use.
Let's
say
if
you
want
to
tokenize
mona
lisa,
that's
not
something
new!
I
mean
we
do
that
since
decades
right.
C
C
C
I
will
not
cover
that
for
for
for
just
just
mentioning
that
you
have
to
be
careful
in
your
in
europe
as
well,
but
just
from
from
from
a
similar
perspective,
it's
pr
it's
quite
easy
and
that's
possibly
in
liechtenstein.
You
can
issue
100
000
tokens,
which
then
give
you
shared
ownership
of
the
mona
lisa,
and
then
you
can
add
some
other
rights
you
can
say
like
I
can.
C
You
have
like
the
direct
link
link
between
the
token
and
the
piece
of
art,
and
this
is
something
which
which
makes
nft
so
powerful
right
and,
as
we
already
heard
yes,
it's
possible
to
even
frictionize
that,
and
therefore
I
mean
it's
maybe
possible
to
to
afford
a
100
thousands
of
of
a
precious
piece
of
art,
but
not
like.
If
you
have
like
four
for
for
every
piece
of
art,
only
one
token
yeah,
we
will
have
issues
in
really
like
using
them
on
a
daily
basis.
C
This
brings
me
actually
back
to
the
topic
that
I
think,
like
nfts,
are
really
something
very,
very
interesting,
but
with
with
a
universal
concept
of
a
token,
you
can
easily
address
it
as
as
the
default
as
I
said.
So
that's
that's
really
interesting.
I
think,
and
there
will
be
more
and
more
use
cases,
because
you
can
have
then
like
talking
about
the
token
economy.
C
You
can
say
like
okay
now
I
have
a
token
which
ensures
exactly
that
piece
of
art
and
then
you
can
pledge
that
piece
of
art
and
whatever
like
you,
can
really
build
a
complete
ecosystem,
a
token
economy
around
all
of
that-
and
this
is
happening
anyway.
That's
my
personal
opinion.
This
is
happening
anyway.
Just
regulators
have
to
adopt
sooner
or
later
this
is
happening.
Yeah
absolutely.
A
And
just
to
add
to
your
to
your
comments
is
true:
you
can
basically
tokenize
anything
in
the
real
world,
don't
think
only
about
like
a
physical
asset
that
you
can
talk
in
iceland
somehow
but
think
about.
For
example,
like
a
credit
credit
right,
you
have
a
right
of
over
a
person
for
credit,
and
you
can
even
tokenize
this
right.
So
if
it's
possible
to
do
this
kind
of
like
tokenization
for
immaterial
credit
rights,
why
shouldn't
it
be
applicable
to
the
intellectual
property
right?
A
It's
just
the
same
thing,
but
it's
just
about
finding
the
proper
way
on
how
to
address
the
the
actual
fractalization
of
the
token.
Does
it
mean
that
I
will
get
like
0.001
of
the
ownership
of
the
of
the
piece
of
the
bigger
piece?
How
is
it
going
to
work
if
I
want
to
also
transmit
it
to
a
third-party
person?
I
want
to
like
make
income
out
of
this
part.
A
C
I
think
I
have
to
advocate
now
for
for
the
european
commission
to
be
very
honest,
because
the
european
commission
did
a
great
job
they
issued
last
year
in
september,
a
draft
of
of
mika
which
is
marketing
crypto
assets,
regulation
about
crypto
assets.
It's
not
perfect,
but
it's
really,
I
think
in
my
opinion,
given
the
circumstances,
it's
quite
good
and
you
have
to
put
that
into
perspective.
C
The
european
commission
is
issuing
a
marketing
crypto
assets
regulation
in
september
2020
and
like
go
back
in
that
time,
like
the
overall
market,
like
what
was
really
happening,
and
if
you
put
that
into
perspective
of
the
overall
economy
globally,
that
was
not
really
like
yeah
I
mean
it
was
not
like
it
that
doesn't
really
matter
that
much
I
mean
we
are
all
live
in
our
bubble.
I
do
that
since,
like
2015
whatever,
but
like
generally
speaking
and
globally
speaking,
it
was
not
really
something
which
which
they
should
have
done
right.
C
Normally,
the
european
european
commission.
They
issue
these
regulations
when
things
are
already
over,
like
think
about
crowdfunding
right
when
we
had
the
crowdfunding
director.
If
the
party
was
over
right
and
now
this
time
they
they
do
that,
yes,
I
think
it's
just
a
start
right
and
the
issue.
Now
this
this
marketing
crypt,
I
said
legislation
I
think,
and
that's
a
strong
signal
for
europe,
and
I
think
yes,
everybody
else
of
us,
I
I'm
the
same
right.
I
cannot
wait,
I'm
really
I!
C
A
Agreed,
let's
see
what
happens,
keep
the
eyes
well
open
in
the
years,
but
just
connecting
with
this
argument,
which
I
love,
this
is
really
like.
I
can
see
that
you're
as
passionate
as
us,
because
we
we
used
to
talk
about
this
on
a
regular
basis.
It's
super
interesting
and
super
interesting,
not
only
to
see
what's
happening,
but
the
direction
that
we
are
heading
to.
A
So
I'm
personally
a
bit
romantic,
the
feeling
that
we
will
find
the
right
formula,
the
right
framework,
it's
just
the
question
of
time,
and
I
want
to
think
positively
that
we
will
be
able
to
feel
more
protected
when
just
creating
and
building
on
top
of
a
dlt
or
a
blockchain
specifically,
and
the
regulators
agreed
with
the
mika
initiative.
For
example,
they
seem
to
understand
that
a
classification
of
crypto
assets
was
necessary
officially
from
the
european
union,
and
this
will
highly
influence
the
rest
of
the
regulations
and
legislation.
C
And
the
good
message
is:
it's
marketing
crypto
assets
regulation,
not
marketing,
crypto
securities,
so
they
really
differentiate
between
what
is
a
crypto
asset
and
what
is
it?
What
is
a
security
which
is
tokenized
and
that's
groundbreaking?
I
mean
if
they
would
done
it
differently.
We
I
mean,
then
we
will
be
done
right,
like
if
everything
even
like,
whatever
cryptocurrency
will
be
treated
as
a
security.
C
I
mean
parties
over
right
because
then
only
like
intermediaries
could
cover
these,
but
they
that's
that's
the
strong
thing
and
it
starts
with
with
with.
I
think
it's
on
the
on
the
first
pages.
They
say:
no,
the
securities
world
is
the
securities
world.
We
are
thinking
about.
Crypto
assets
and
crypto
assets
have
to
be
regulated
differently
and
that's
the
first
big
thing
I
think,
is
really
worth
noting.
A
A
How
should
we
understand
the
royalties
and
how
should
we
treat
the
royalties
from
the
the
nfts
coming
out
of
the
nfts?
If
I'm
an
artist
and
can
they
be
perpetual
somehow
or
they
are
limited
and
in
some
concrete,
like
time,
lapse
animal?
What
do
you
think
about
this?
Because
I,
like
your
opinion,
please
share
it.
B
So
I
would
say
perpetual
royalties,
that's
just
a
product
of
private
private
contracts.
Right
two
individuals
are
free
to
get
into
a
contract
and
agree
to
certain
terms,
especially
if
they're
informed
on
the
subject.
They
received,
counsel
on
it,
perpetual
royalties,
that's
a
brand
new
concept
that
hasn't
really
been
available
in
the
space,
because
there
was
no
real
way
to
track.
Oh
this,
this
piece
just
got
sold
again.
You
know,
and
and
and
these
royalties
are
able
to
be
settled
in
in
real
time
and
whatnot.
B
The
original
creator
gets
their
money
in
an
instant
and
whatnot.
The
only
thing
I
would
have
to
say
is
is
I
think
that
paradigm
is
going
to
change.
I
think
artists
are
going
to
be
more
aware
of,
of
the
consequences
of
you
know
having
a
perpetual
royalty.
Does
the
subsequent
buy
subsequent
buyer
wants
to
buy
into
an
nfc
where
they
have
to
pay
that
royalty?
You
know
so
yeah.
That's
what
I
have
to
say.
A
C
A
So
guys,
as
you
know,
we
could
be
talking
about
this,
but
we
need
to
close
the
discussion
because
we
have
limited
time.
The
conversation
is
very
interesting.
Please
feel
free
to
reach
out
to
us.
If
you
have
any
comments,
any
ideas
at
any
time,
as
mentioned,
we
have
the
telegram
channel
just
available
for
you
there
near
legal
finance
on
twitter.
The
website
will
be
online
soon
and
we
will
be
sharing
our
materials
there.
There
are
use
cases
playbooks
for
you
to
just
address
all
of
this
information.
A
We
have
been
working
hard
during
the
past
months,
just
to
share
knowledge
with
you.
Knowledge
is
power
and
we
want
to
empower
the
community.
You
need
to
have
this
information
just
to
understand,
what's
going
on
and
how
to
act
in
case
that
something
is
happening.
So
this
is
our
main
goal
right
now
as
a
guild,
but
before
we
we
close
the
session
for
today.
A
I
think
it's
important
since
we
have
artists
here
we
have
entrepreneurs
who
want
to
just
build
on
top
of
the
blockchain
technology
on
top
of
the
protocol
of
the
near
protocol,
to
also
be
able
to
listen
to
your
doubts,
question
or
maybe
just
general
comments.
So
if
anyone
has
a
question,
we
would
like
to
to
hear
it
from
you
artists,
on
the
on
the
room.
What
kind
of
problems
did
you
face
in
the
past?
A
What
kind
of
concerns
when
creating
an
nft,
creating
a
tokenizing,
your
your
pieces
of
art,
and
even
though,
when
seeing
that,
maybe
your
ownership
has
been
damaged
somehow
copied?
I
we,
we
have
seen
like
a
lot
of
projects
that
made
their
nfts
available
online
and
they
happen
to
be
copied
by
someone
in
the
other
part
of
the
world,
and
this
is
some
kind
of
situations
that
we
wanted
to
to
ask
you
about,
and
if
you
have
any
concerns
or
or
ideas
or
comments
regarding
this,
this
is
the
right
time
to
to
do
so.
A
D
So
yeah,
first
of
all,
thanks
guys
very
insightful
panel.
But
I
wanted
to
ask
a
question
generally
about
anonymity
and
where
does
that
fit
in
and
do
you
actually
guys
see
dao
as
a
safe
haven,
so
to
speak,
where,
for
example,
whistleblowers
and
journalists
meet
and
and
how
and
should
be
actually
regulated.
A
We
were
having
this
conversation
in
the
background
and
we
decided
not
to
bring
the
topic
on
the
table,
because
this
is
a
bit
sensitive
but
since
you're
bringing
it.
Thank
you
for
sharing
thanks
a
lot
for
your
question.
I
think
we
we
need
to
address
it.
Yes,
so
there
was
an
official
position.
There
is
still
an
official
position
regarding
privacy
on
the
blockchain
officially
coming
from
the
european
union,
and
the
rules
were
clear
until
basically,
the
the
european
union
said
that
the
hashed
information.
A
Yes,
but
something
happened
along
the
way,
something
that
is
maybe
set
to
change
the
way
that
we
understand
like
identification
on
the
blockchain
in
general
terms-
and
I
would
like
thomas
to
maybe
answer
to
this
question
because
we
were
talking
about
this-
and
liechtenstein
has
a
really
interesting
position
regarding
this
and
thomas
happens,
to
be
one
of
the
persons
who
is
pushing
this
this
initiative
so
thomas?
What
can
you
share
about
this?.
C
I
I
think
it's
less
about
data
protection
right.
I
think
the
question
if
I
understood
the
question
right,
you
said
like
even
to
perfect
protect
journalists,
the
privacy
of
journalists
or
whistleblowers,
and
I
think
that
is
really
a
very,
very
good
question
and
it's
a
sensitive
one
as
well.
I
think,
but
I
have
I
haven't.
I
have
a
strong
opinion
there
as
well.
I
think
what
we
need
is
a
new
approach
here,
because,
first
of
all,
yes,
we
live
in
2021.
C
Nobody
wants
to
support
financing
of
terrorism.
Nobody
wants
to
support
like
like
money
laundering
at
a
large
scale
and
whatsoever.
That's
that's
for
sure,
and
jurisdictions
and
states
they.
They
have
to
avoid
that
right
because
we
want
to
live
safe.
On
the
other
hand,
I
mean
I
care
about
my
privacy
as
well
right
and
you
had
perfect
examples
like
with
whistleblowing
or
journalists
right,
and
it's
just
not
the
case
that
you
will
find
an
area.
You
said
like
a
safe
haven.
C
There
is
no
such
thing
as
a
safe
haven,
because
if
you
define
something
in
us
as
a
safe
haven,
it
said
like
just
don't
look
there
right.
We
do
there
whatever
we
want.
Please
just
don't
go
there.
You
have
to
trust
again
right
that
you
don't
do
something
wrong
and
I
think
I
mean
we
have
to
solution.
The
technology
could
provide,
but
yeah
for
for
that.
C
You
have
to
step
like
three
steps
back,
have
a
big
picture
and
think
about
how
we
could
use
the
technology
to
address
these
issues,
to
avoid
financing
of
terrorism,
to
avoid
that
people
are
misusing
this
technology
and,
on
the
other
hand,
to
protect
the
privacy,
because
I
don't
want
to
actually
trust
as
a
whistleblower
that
the
recipient
is
really
taking
my
privacy
serious
and
is
not
like
exposing
me
as
a
whistleblower
right.
I
just
don't
want
to
trust
them
and
I
have
to
trust
them
in
most
cases
today
I
have
to
trust
them.
C
I
mean
there
are
regulators
where
you
have
to
send
an
email
address,
for
example,
if
you
want
to
whistleblow
information,
an
email
right,
and
so
that's
just
like
it's
it's
it's
not
right
right,
but
I
think-
and
we
can
have
a
separate
discussion
about
that.
If
you
want
to.
I
think
there
is
a
that
there
is
a
solution
where
you
address
all
of
that,
but
you
need
to
be
able
to
to,
and
this
will
actually
solve
a
lot
of
other
problems.
C
I
think,
as
well
think
of
having
an
information
like
a
set
of
information
where
you
only
share
the
necessary
information
and
everything
else
is
locked
and
it's
locked
with
a
trustless
technology.
So
zero
knowledge
proof
right.
I
don't
have
to
trust
anybody,
I'm
not
a
I'm.
I
used
to
code
software
about
10
years,
but
I'm
a
horrible
coder,
so
I
think
we
have
way
more
better
coders
here
and
protocols
like
work
on
such
a
solution.
You
will
really
change
the
world.
C
A
To
add
to
thomas
argument,
I
was
intrigued
and
interested
by
some
kind
of
solutions
that
happened
to
just
enter
the
the
crypto
space
some
some
years
ago.
I
don't
know
if
you
have
heard
about
the
concept
called
self-sovereign
identity
and
self-sovereign
identity
seems
to
be
the
key
for
fixing
this
kind
of
problems.
A
I
don't
want
to
give
you
my
personal
data,
my
identifiable
kind
of
data,
for
you
to
tell
me
that
you
are
respecting
it.
I
don't
want
to
trust
you.
As
thomas
said.
Why
should
I
trust
you?
Why
should
I
trust
that
you're
managing
and
handling
my
sensitive
information
properly
in
the
right
way,
so
this
self-server
and
identity
solutions?
A
The
core
idea
is
that
you
actually
don't
transfer
the
information
to
the
recipient,
but
you
give
the
recipient
access
for
a
limited
time
and
for
a
concrete
purpose
just
to
do
so
and
whenever
it
is
that
the
purpose
or
the
finality
is
actually
done
is
achieved.
The
the
access
to
the
personal
data
is
blocked.
A
Think
about
the
the
power
lies
within
you
by
by
adopting
this
kind
of
like
cell
server
and
identity
solutions,
you
can
really
take
good
care
of
your
sensitive
information,
your
personal
data
information,
so
I
recommend
also
to
explore
this
kind
of
like
initiatives.
There
are
a
lot
of
companies
a
lot
of
solutions,
even
though
the
european
union
is
rooting
towards
some
self-sovereign
identity
system.
A
We
will
see
how
this
develops,
but
as
a
general
idea,
I
think
that
the
the
right
time
is
now
we
are
just
seeing
the
new
solutions
and
the
newly
catalog
of
new
solutions
just
being
born.
We
just
need
to
be
able
again,
I
love
to
say
this,
but
to
open
the
ears
and
eyes
and
just
to
be
aware
of
what's
going
on,
if
we
understand
what's
going
on
and
that
we
actually
can
take
reclaim
the
power
on
on
controlling
our.
Let's
just
say:
destiny.
A
So
anyone
else
has
a
question
for
for
the
panel
okay,
perfect.
So
thank
you
very
much
guys
for
for
joining
our
conversation.
This
is
just
a
great
place
to
be
right
now,
we're
enjoying
the
city
and
join
the
the
company
feel
free
to
reach
out
to
us
on
the
on
the
gills
lounge
space.
We
will
be
definitely
looking
forward
to
hear
more
from
you
from
your
projects.
What
is
it
that
you're
doing?
Maybe
you
have
some
other
concerns.