►
From YouTube: NEARCON 2022 | Nightshade Stage - Day 1
Description
Check out all the talks of #NEARCON Nightshade Stage Day 1 with the timestamps below 🔽
00:00 - Beginning
00:51 - Crypto Imploded. What Did We Learn? | Magali McIntyre - Egon Zehnder
16:01 - Updates From NEAR's Decentralized Stablecoin | Mark Sugden & Denny Balon - Decentral Bank
32:31 - Asset-Backed vs. Algorithmic: Huobi and USN on the Future of Stablecoins | Lindsey Crawford - Proximity Labs, Denny Balon - Decentral Bank, Edward Chen - Huobi
01:00:20 - Sharding Phase 1: Why You Should Be Excited | Maksym Zavershynskyi - Pagoda
01:09:49 - NEAR Sharding and the Future: Community Panel | Claudio Cossio - Metapool, George Milescu & Maksym Zavershynskyi - Pagoda, Stanley He - CornerstoneDAO, Henry Tafolla - Cheddar, and Chetana Desai - Pagoda | MC: Marcus Ribeiro
01:31:56 - Crossing the Chasm: How to Make Bridges Safe | Blas Rodriguez - Composable Finance, Kirill Abramov - Aurora Labs, Jessica Salomon - Archway, and Ayoung Jeon - NEAR Foundation | MC: Marcus Ribeiro
02:03:48 - Building a DeFi Ecosystem on NEAR | Lindsey Crawford - Proximity Labs, Arjun Arora - Orderly Network, Didier Pironi - Ref Finance, Dheeraj Borra - Stader Labs, and Igor Stadnyk - INC4 and PembRock Finance | MC: Marcus Ribeiro
02:29:30 - The Road to Mass Adoption: Bridging NFTs to Web2 Audiences | Erik Trautman - Satori | MC: Marcus Ribeiro
02:51:11 - Onboarding the Next Generation of Web3 Gamers | Aliaksandr 'Sasha' Hudzilin - Human Guild, Hugo Furneaux - PlayEmber, and Ayoung Jeon - NEAR Foundation
03:07:26 - Keep Your Friends NEAR: Building Bridges to Polkadot | Sheldon Dearr - Octopus Network, Ashley Tyson - Hypersphere Ventures, and Jason Ma - Axelar
03:24:58 - State of Security: A Panel With the Auditors Who Keep NEAR Safe | Yevheniia Broshevan - Hacken, Michal Bajor - Halborn, Ioannis Sachinoglou - Chain Security, Robert Chen - OtterSec, David Schwed - Halborn, and Ayoung Jeon - NEAR Foundation
03:49:06 - How to Delegate Treasury Management While Keeping Your Keys | Luca Mossini - Avantgarde Finance
04:03:26 - How Web3 Is the New Instrument for Musicians | Tim Exile - Endlesss & Amber Stoneman - Minting Music / Nashville Unsigned
04:28:38 - Surviving the Gauntlet: Finding Success as a Technical Founder | Drew Gorton - Pagoda
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Learn to Build On NEAR: https://www.near.university/
Grants & Funding: https://near.org/grants/ (edited)
B
B
B
So
when
Marik
a
few
weeks
ago
came
to
see,
come
to
see
me
and
ask
me:
what
have
you
learned
this
year
working
closely
with
those
crypto
and
blockchain
businesses?
What
are
the
Leadership
Lessons
I
thought
it
was
a
really
good
question
and,
to
be
honest,
we
tend
to
move
on
from
one
crisis
to
the
next
and
think.
Okay.
This
is
a
crypto
winter,
there's
a
reason
why
we
call
it
winter,
because
it's
a
season,
these
two
Shall
Pass,
like
the
rain
Regulators,
are
spooked.
B
That's
that's
what's
happening
when
you
have
an
innovation
cycle,
there's
nothing
really
new
to
it.
I,
don't
think.
That's
totally
true
and
I
think
it's
definitely
worse,
posing
and
take
10
minutes
today
to
think
what
is
it
that
we've
learned
over
the
past
year?
And
what
would
you
like
to
do?
What
should
we
probably
start
doing
differently?
B
So,
if
there's
one
thing,
I've
learned
working
with
businesses
and
a
lot
of
my
work
I
do
is
high
growth.
Businesses
is
that
organizations
are
a
function
of
their
leaders
and
they
reflect
both
their
strengths,
their
superpowers
and
their
weaknesses,
and
those
two
are
very
very
tightly
linked
because
when
the
strengths
is
overplayed,
when
the
superpowered
is
overplayed,
it
becomes
a
blind
spot
and
so
I
thought
one
is
specific
to
the
crypto
blockchain
Webster
businesses.
What
are
what
is
unique
about
their
leaders?
B
Well,
a
lot
of
it
is
that
their
leaders
are
mostly
Founders
so
to
understand
those
businesses
and
how
to
lead
those
businesses.
You
need
to
understand
the
psychology
of
founders,
and
so
I
went
to
see
some
of
my
clients
and
ask
them
as
Founders.
What
do
you
think
your
superpowers
are
in
search
of
their
blind
spots
and
there
were
lots
of
different
answers,
but
a
couple
of
themes
came
out
very
very
clearly,
and
one
was
creativity.
B
The
second
thing
that
happens
when
the
founder
identifies
the
creative
minds
is
that
no
one
else
does,
and
even
if
you
hire
very
creative
people
in
your
organization,
they
tend
to
shrink
down
because
it's
not
their
identity.
It's
not
their
job
and
the
cost
for
organizations
are
huge
because
organizations
where
not
everyone
thinks
that
creativity
is
their
job
just
doesn't
perform
as
well
purely
and
safely.
B
The
second
one
is
the
second
I
would
say:
self-diagnosed
superpower
that
came
up
was
resilience
and
this
ability
to
push
through
everything
that
happens
take
the
punches
and
they
feel
they
have
to
be
there
for
everyone
and
lead
from
the
front,
which
is
fantastic.
That's
why
people
follow
them?
That's
why
a
lot
of
people
join
those
businesses,
two
problems
again.
B
So
I
need
I
I
get
that
they
they
feel
like
this,
but
suddenly
there's
no
empathy
and
there's
not
a
dynamic
of
support
in
the
business,
which
means
that
everyone
feel
isolated
and
feel
that
it's
not
their
job
to
challenge
the
leader,
the
almighty
leader
and
you're,
going
to
say
I
mean
all
this
sounds
great.
We
do
need
leaders
who
are
very
creative
and
we
do
need
leaders
who
are
very,
very
resilient.
B
The
risk
is
this
learned
behavior
to
tune
off
any
discordant
voices.
I
need
to
push
through
I
need
to
be
right.
I
can't
listen
to
people
that
are
stopping
me
along
the
way
to
tell
me
I'm
wrong
and
again
I.
Remember
exactly
what
it
feels
like.
Everyone
loves
to
tell
you
why
your
idea
is
not
going
to
work.
If
you
listen
to
them
all
the
time
you're
never
going
to
get
anywhere.
B
B
That's
the
theory!
What
have
we
observed
working
with
team
in
practice?
A
few
things
over
the
past
two
years?
A
lot
of
the
businesses
came
to
us
because
it's
scaled
and
they
needed
to
bring
functional
experts
into
some
of
the
key
roles,
and
this
is
hard
because
it
means
letting
go
letting
go
of
your
DNA,
letting
people
in
who
are
different,
and
you
feel
that
the
culture
is
going
to
suffer
and
you're
going
to
lose
the
magic,
and
we
had
a
wide
range
of
discussion
working
with
a
lot
of
the
players
in
the
industry.
B
B
The
we
spoke
to
Executive
in
preparation
of
this
chat
with
you,
who
have
been
at
the
heart
of
the
inclusion
and
I've,
seen
it
from
true
and
say
what
are
your
lessons?
What
are
your
learning
and
it
was
around
the
same
line
because
they
were
saying
I
had
this
voice
in
me,
I
didn't
feel
like
I
was
a
total
believer
and
so
I
didn't
feel
like
I
belonged
and
I
didn't
speak
up,
and
this
is
where
we
are
right
now,
and
this
is
why
I
left
the
organization.
B
C
B
But
they
do
need
to
wait
in
really
quickly
to
make
a
difference.
I
think
the
lessons
is,
it
doesn't
have
to
be
that
way,
very
simply,
but
this
is
a
new
industry
with
a
chance
to
do
things
differently,
a
chance
to
build
new
models
and
as
you're
building
new
technology
a
new
over
operating
model.
There
is
room
for
a
new
form
of
leadership.
B
What?
If
what?
If
leaders
in
web
3,
where
is
the
one
who
redefine
what
good
leaderships
look
like
and
you
wouldn't
believe
it,
but
in
wipes
too
I
had
discussions
with
leaders
in
question
session
about
what
good
leadership
look
like
and
they
all
came
from
American
movies
from
the
80s.
So
there's
plenty
of
room
to
do
things
differently.
B
B
Some
challenges
will
be
specific
to
your
industry
because
it's
decentralized
and
it's
not
easy,
but
some
leadership
teams
are
Universal
and
at
Diggins
under
we
came
up
with
a
Model
A
few
years
ago
about
what
makes
a
great
leader
I
mean
I.
Think
in
the
end,
it's
not
rocket
science.
It
comes
down
to
four
things.
B
B
Curiosity
is
the
best
indicator,
and
we've
looked
at
data
over
60
years
of
how
successful
Founders
have
been
is
the
first
indicator
of
potential
success
of
a
leader
not
only
in
web
3,
not
only
in
Tech
in
any
form
of
leadership,
and
this
true
form
of
curiosity
curiosity
towards
the
world.
What's
going
on,
what's
Happening,
what
can
I
learn
from
what
could
my
business
do
differently,
but
even
more
importantly,
curiosity
towards
yourself
as
a
leader,
the
ability
to
challenge
the
ability
to
reconsider?
B
What's
all
the
assumption
that
I'm
making
about
myself
and
what
the
good
leaders
look
like
that
are
getting
in
my
way
at
this
stage
of
my
business,
so
I
wanted
to
leave
you
with
these
thoughts.
I'm
not
here,
to
teach
you
anything
or
give
you
lessons.
But
if
there's
one
thing
that
I
took
away
speaking
to
oldest
leaders
over
the
last
three
months
is
that
through
winter
spring
summer,
what
is
gonna
Define,
the
successful
businesses
and
projects
and
the
others
comes
down
to
one
thing,
stay
curious.
A
Big
thanks
to
magaly
there
how
to
be
a
leader
for
All
Seasons,
stay
curious
up
next
and
by
the
way,
we're
running
about
50
minutes
late
on
this
stage,
50
minutes
behind,
because
we
started
50
minutes
late.
So
just
FYI.
If
you
look
at
the
schedule,
just
plus
50
minutes
to
all
those
times,
I'm
June
I'm
your
host
for
today
I'm
with
Amplified
event
strategy,
and
you
may
have
seen
some
of
my
work
in
coindesk,
quartz
and
elsewhere
over
the
years
up.
A
D
You
guys
can
hear
me
yeah.
You
can
hear
myself
one
two
three,
so
we're
all
familiar
with
this
Lego
thanks
for
coming.
Actually,
everyone
first
and
foremost,
there's
lots
of
exciting
stuff
going
on
out
there.
So
thanks
for
choosing
to
spend
some
time
with
us
last
time,
Denny
and
I
were
speaking
to
the
crowd.
It
was
plus.
D
D
E
Considering
that
I
hardly
hear
you
I'm
just
reading
by
your
lips,
hopefully
the
crowd
hears
us
better.
So
on
the
left.
That's
me
in
the
pre-web
3
era,
when
I
didn't
have
the
earrings
and
all
that
stuff
and
I
didn't
own.
A
little
bit
of
USM
I've
been
doing
projects
and
products
working
with
teams,
creating
value
for
like
1890
19
years
and
finally
I'm
here,
with
all
of
you
trying
to
get
my
way
through
crypto
world,
and
what
about
you
mark
so.
D
So
moving
from
a
payments,
fintech
environment
to
the
near
foundation,
and
then
you
know,
two-way,
a
financial
product
was
quite
a
Natural
Evolution
for
me
and
yeah
really
really
enjoying
my
time.
Working
as
the
previous
said,
you
know
a
new
model
when
I've
been
you
know,
growing
up
and
working
in
a
really
corporate
professional
environment
where,
if
you
have
a
meeting,
it's
all
in
a
room,
whereas
now
it's
all
over
the
planet,
so
yeah
enjoying
the
challenges.
E
We're
in
transition
phase,
as
you
know,
we
have
launched
in
April
of
2022,
with
reserves,
mostly
consisting
of
near
and
usdt
and
automatic
rebalancing
and
the
winter
that
has
started
this
spring.
The
winter
started
this
spring
showed
us
that
despite
the
system
behaved
pretty
well
and
we
received
a
pretty
nice
results,
we
wanted
to
do
more
and
to
do
a
much
stronger
mechanism
and
the
core
for
the
for
the
whole
market
and
the
whole
industry.
E
At
this
time
we
have
been
developing
the
version.
3
will
be
releasing
this
month
and
I'll,
be
speaking
about
it
a
little
bit
later,
but
most
important
were.
We
were
testing
theories,
doing
a
lot
of
simulations
to
actually
make
sure
that
the
third
version
that
we
release
in
the
coming
week,
6,
is
something
that
we
are
proud
of
and
the
market
will
truly
like
and
value.
D
D
All
of
these
are
partners
that
we've
been
working
with
in
the
ecosystem,
so
we've
got
tonic,
which
is
one
of
the
New
Order
books
launched,
live
on
the
near
native
blockchain,
try
Solaris
the
the
premier
amm
on
the
Aurora
Network
we're
integrating
with
them
set
up
a
nice
good,
stable
pool
there
bit,
sir,
some
of
you
guys,
probably
haven't
heard
of
them.
So
they
are
a
payment
application,
they're,
regulated
out
of
Canada,
and
you
can
now
use
usn
to
pay
out
in
40
different
countries
as
a
settlement
and
25
different
currencies.
D
Hopefully,
you
all
know
refinance
the
first
amm
on
the
near
native
blockchain,
so
working
with
them
to
really
build
up
that
stablecoin
liquidity
on
the
network
and
make
sure
that
the
infrastructure
and
the
tools
are
there
for
Traders
to
operate
in
the
ecosystem
and
as
well
as
seat
Labs,
nfts,
so
seat
labs
nft
are
a
ticketing
company
launched
on
the
near
blockchain
and
we're
working
with
them
where
all
secondary
ticket
sales
will
only
be
possible
via
usn.
So
solving
a
couple
of
issues
with
you
know
that
arrive
within
the
ticketing
industry.
D
If
you
want
to
on
sell
those
tickets,
you
can
get
the
commission
or
the
artist
gets
commissioned
from
that
resale
value.
You
know
moving
the
problem
of
scalping,
but
that
will
only
be
done
with
usn,
so
really
building
up
the
use
case,
and
hopefully,
the
liquidity
of
it
as
well
and
working
with
other
partners
like
banksa
who
will
facilitate
people
to
buy
usn
with
their
cards.
So
I've
got
my
regular
bank
card.
I
can
go
on
the
seat.
Labs
app
I
can
buy
usn
with
my
card
and
operate
with
within
that
infrastructure.
D
Very
simply,
and
of
course,
huobi
there,
huobi
are
our
first
centralized
exchange
partner,
really
really
helpful
team,
we're
so
happy
to
be
working
with
them,
really
awesome
guys.
So
what
can
you
do
with
all
this
stuff
right?
You
know
over
the
summer
farming
usn
right.
That's
why?
No
one
here
has
a
tan.
D
You
know
we've
got
good
APR
for
essentially
what
is
one
of
you
know.
Safest
products
on
the
market,
you've
got
a
ref,
Finance
pool
where
you've
got
usn
and
usdt,
and
at
the
moment,
because
usn
can
only
be
wrapped.
It
can
only
be
minted
with
usdt,
it's
a
very
safe
farming
product,
so
the
the
apy
is
around
12
for
a
stable
pool,
so
really
good
opportunities
for
farming,
stables
and
in
the
crypto
winter.
D
Most
of
us
have
a
lot
of
stables
sitting
there,
just
waiting
to
capitalize
when
the
market
sentiment
returns
so
providing
some
functionality
there,
as
well
as
Tri
Solaris.
We've
got
a
pool
going
there
tonic,
we've
got
some
incentives
going
there
and
we
are
working
with
a
whole
bunch
of
Partners
within
the
ecosystem
to
make
sure
that
users
of
usn
are
rewarded
by
their
loyalty.
In
testing
it
out.
E
Something
that
I
mentioned
already
the
version
three
that
will
appear
on
test
Nets
in
the
coming
days
and
will
be
released
on
mainnet
by
end
of
the
month.
This
is
something
very
special
we
have
been
working
recently
upon,
and
you
know,
as
usual.
Ideas
are
not
new
and
ideas
are
cheap,
but
it's
all
ends
with
actual
implementation.
And
how
do
you
target
problems
and
challenges
when
solving
them,
so
usn
version
3
will
include
two
cores.
E
The
first
core
is
stable,
swap,
let's
call
it
a
stable
swap
that
allows
you
to
mean
to
your
sand
with
stable
coins
one
to
one.
Obviously,
it
will
include
corresponding
security
mechanisms
that
will
allow
to
secure
and
defend
the
reserves
from
drying
out
in
case
something
on
the
market
happens,
and
one
of
the
stable
coins
depends
and
goes
down
now.
E
We
believe
that
usn
V3
having
two
cores,
actually
targets,
pretty
different
crowds,
allowing
to
mean
to
assign
extremely
cost
effectively
when
using
the
stable,
swap
core
for
the
retail
users
and
using
the
CDP
core
for
more
defy
users
when
they
don't
want
to
actually
sell
their
Bitcoin,
for
example.
Yet
they
need
funds
to
operate.
Currently,
both
cores
will
be
working
in
parallel.
They
will
be
connected
and
balancing
corresponding
balancing
will
happen.
So
the
circulating
supply
of
the
usen
is
always
well
balanced
by
the
cores
that
were
generating
it.
E
D
Cool,
so
we've
all
seen
the
growth
of
stable
coins,
I
think
stable
coins
have
really
set
out
a
niche
within
it
within
the
crypto
space
and
really
identified
product
Market
fit
we've
seen
well,
I've
seen
it
because
I
kind
of
live
and
breathe
stable
coins,
but
there
are
pictures
of
you
know.
The
number
of
stablecoin
addresses
continue
going
up
to
the
right,
no
matter
what
the
prices
of
the
digital
assets
are.
It's
because
they're
highly
functional
Traders
can
sit
in
stable
coins
and
still
stay
in
the
market.
They
want
to
participate
in
the
ecosystem.
D
We're
building
up
a
lot
of
real
world
use
cases
for
payments,
and
it's
not
just
you
and
usn
alone.
Obviously
there
are
some
real
bear.
Muffs
in
the
space
like
usdt
usdc
die,
the
market
is
certainly
ripe
for
disruption,
so
you
have
to
decide,
you
know
what
do
people
want
and
why
do
they
want
it?
And
there
are
certainly
trade-offs
between
decentralization
and
mass
adoption,
and
those
are
the
kind
of
things
that
we
will
try
and
address
over
time.
First
and
foremost,
the
Central
Bank,
you
know
the
clue
is
in
the
name.
D
We
are
all
about
decentralization,
so
we
think
there
is
certainly
a
use
case
there
that
will
continue
the
proliferation
of
decentralized,
stable
coins
for
people
to
use
them
outside
of
I.
Guess
what
we
call
the
the
mainstream
Financial
system.
You
know
letting
people
that
are
outside
those
walls,
the
accredited
investors
and
those
kind
of
things,
people
that
say
you
are
and
can
do
things
based
on
the
amount
of
money
we
have.
We
don't
believe
in
that
at
all.
D
We
want
to
make
sure
that
people
are
able
to
send
funds
to
countries
that
might
not
necessarily
be
within
the
confines
of
of
the
status
quo
of
the
current
system
for
various
different
reasons,
making
sure
we
can
Bank
the
unbank
those
kind
of
things.
Those
are
the
core
thing
core
things.
You
know
the
center
of
our
ethos.
Now
this
graph
here
is
the
internet
right,
so
I'm
sure
we've
all
seeing
that
Meme
of
Paul
krugman's,
you
know,
say
the
internet
was
a
fad.
You
know
it's
like
a
fax
machine
or
something
like
that.
D
People
just
are
afraid
of
change.
Sometimes
and
stable
coins
are
such
a
huge
disruption
to
the
status
quo.
What
goes
on
today,
working
in
payments
myself,
you've
all
probably
had
experience
in
sending
money
halfway
across
the
world
having
to
wait
three
times
going
through
a
whole
bunch
of
rigmarole
to
to
get
the
information
in
and
once
you
get
that
information
in
there's
a
corresponding
bank
somewhere
on
the
chain
that
needs
more
information.
D
Those
kind
of
things
there's
got
to
be
a
better
way
right
and-
and
this
is
what
blockchains
enable-
and
we
can
certainly
verify
all
of
the
transactions,
all
the
steps
along
the
way
make
sure
that
you
know
we've
got
full
visibility
of
what
is
currently
a
very
opaque
system.
You
know
you
don't
know
what
corresponding
Bank
your
payment
is
with
at
the
moment
how
much
they've
got
whites
held
up.
D
D
We
enjoy
it,
but
the
user
experience
is
still
not
there
from
a
wallet
a
wallet
point
of
view,
but
there
are
so
many
people
here
today,
A
lot
of
you
even
that
are
all
working
on
that
ux
right.
So
if
we
keep
on
building
the
infrastructure
in
place,
that's
where
we're
going
to
start
seeing
that
hockey
stick
up
to
the
right
from
an
adoption
point
of
view,
because
we
see
the
use
cases
there,
it's
all
about
the
UI,
the
usability.
So
that's.
E
We
want
to
point
out
the
key,
unique
features
of
USM
I.
Think
the
most
unique
feature
is
the
sustainable
yield
generation.
That
by
Design
is
the
feature
of
usn
and
hardly
any
other
stable
can
offer
that.
How
this
actually
work,
the
near
that
will
be
placed
into
the
reserve
will
be
staked
and
the
state
Awards
will
be
then
converted
to
your
send
and
distributed,
and
this
is
the
feature
that
greatly
differentiates
us
from
many
other
stable
coins
on
the
market.
E
The
other
feature
is
that
in
nearest
Future,
I
think
it's
a
third
quarter
of
this
year.
The
transactions
in
usn
will
be
actually
paid
in
USM.
So
now
you
don't
need
to
have
near
on
your
wallet
to
transact
in
your
sand
and
we
believe
that's
a
major
step
forward,
because
currently,
if
you
wanna
send
usdt,
you
need
to
have
F
or
TRX
or
whatever
by
end
of
the
year.
E
We
plan
to
go
full
cross
chain
literally,
make
the
experience
of
bringing
collateral
on
ethereum
and
receiving
usno
near
make
it
seamless
make
it
literally
one
click
allowing
you
to
deposit
funds
on
one
layer
one
and
receive
usn
on
the
other
protocol,
and
the
number
four
is,
of
course,
we're
looking
forward
to
moving
to
fully
centralization,
which
obviously
includes
the
structure
of
the
product.
From
the
legal
point
of
view,
of
course,
the
governance
and
the
technical
side
of
things.
D
Say
if
any
of
you
have
any
questions,
we've
got
a
booth
down
in
the
ecosystem.
Section
so
come
find
us
we'll
have
a
chat,
call
to
action.
You
know
if
you
can
think
of
a
way
that
usn
would
help
your
users
anything
you're,
building
interested
in
taking
part
in
the
ecosystem.
We
welcome
all
conversations
and,
of
course
the
Dow
will
be
open
to
anyone
to
come
and
contribute
so
pop
by
the
Discord
come
and
let
us
know
if
you
have
any
ideas
or
want
to
contribute
in
any
way.
Thanks
for
listening.
A
G
H
This
is
the
leading
one
of
the
leading
product
managers
of
decentral
Bank
and
comes
from
a
background
of
working
in
I.T
for
over
19
years
and
he's
very
much
a
magician
with
various
types
of
products
that
he's
built
previous
to
crypto
and
and
we
have
advert
Chen
as
well.
That
is
joining
us
from
Kobe
as
the
global
head
of
listings
and
head
of
asset
strategy
and
previous
to
hobby,
he
was
an
executive
director
and
CEO
and
the
Singapore
Hobie
arm
and
spearheaded
roby's
Global
APAC
strategy
operationally
and
today,
I
think.
I
Yeah
from
my
experience
with
crypto
is
quite
a:
how
do
you
say
that
quite
interesting?
It's
okay
right,
quite
interesting
story
because
go
back
to
the
early
2018.
I
have
no
knowledge
about
crypto,
I,
don't
even
know
what
is
bitcoin
and
you
know,
I,
don't
even
know
what
is
4B
and
our
founder
Leon.
You
have
no
idea,
so
my
investor
introduced
me
to
them
and
say
how
say
Hobby
in
China
the
the
biggest
one
biggest
public
exchange
they
want
to
go
to
the
global
market.
I
They
were
looking
for
some
good
Thailand
to
join
them
and
guide
them.
So
that's
why
they
invite
me
to
help
them
so
in
the
right
way.
I
just
have
you
know
casual
talk,
but
after
my
own
company
is
being
merged,
they
say:
hey,
hey
man
is
the
right
time
and
you
know
it's
at
the
new
area
for
the
for
the
you
know
for
the
for
the
crypto.
That's
why
I
joined
them.
So
that's
the
start
of
the
whole
story
of
my
my
crypto
experience
and
then
yeah.
I
As
you
just
mentioned,
I
I
in
the
past
I
I
I,
used
to
lead
a
lot
of
different
business
within
the
group,
so
in
the
very
beginning
for
the
global
expansion.
So
we
help
on
the
Vietnam
Market
expansion,
so
I
still
one
of
the
biggest
and
the
the
best
influencer
crypto
venue
in
Vietnam
and
then
I
moved
to
lead
the
institution.
I
Four
last
year
and
in
the
first
half
year
of
2022,
we
have
around
over
230
projects
to
listen
with
us
and
do
the
all
kinds
of
collaborations
with
us,
and
we
used
to
have
a
lot
of
experience
with
other
new.
You
know
Innovative
stable
coins
and
we
always
treat
the
USA
is
one
of
the
best
with
them.
So
that's
why
we
continue
to
talk
with
Danny
and
you
know
Nia.
Foundation
till
today
we
have
a
chance
to
successfully
launch
them.
Yeah
excellent.
E
I
think
luck
any
chance
kidding.
As
you
know,
one
of
the
booths
there
is
near
UA,
which
is
a
pretty
powerful
Ukrainian
Hub
within
the
near
ecosystem,
and
obviously
I
have
some
friends
there
trying
to
grow
with
them.
The
other
day
last
year,
December
2021
I
just
gave
a
call
and
said:
hey
I
want
to
enter
crypto
and-
and
they
said
just
two
words
stable
coin
and
literally
in
a
few
weeks
after
doing
a
lot
of
reading
and
research.
That
was
absolutely
amazingly
new
feel
to
me.
E
So
that
path
for
me
started
literally
like
eight
months
ago
and
I'm
extremely
motivated
and
well
this
whole
web
3
thing
is
extremely
fascinating
and
I'm
sure
that
on
one
hand
as
much
as
we
are
making
the
huge
experiment,
we
are
part
of
the
experiment.
Nevertheless,
but
we
have
that
amazing
opportunity
to
build
the
new
world
you
know
make
tomorrow
come
and
happen
today
when
internet
started,
I
was
too
young.
So
now
it's
our
time,
I
think
I'd.
H
I
I
during
that
stage
a
lot
of
people
they
want
to
enter
the
market
they
want
to
in
a
very
beginning
only
for
the
financial
utility
like
trading
like
Landing
borrowing
right.
So
they
need
some
very
good.
How
do
you
say
that
kind
of
kind
of
stuff
which
can
help
them
to
transfer
their
feared
asset
into
the
crypto?
So
that's.
I
Why
that's
the
beginning
of
the
stable
coin
in
the
very
beginning,
and
during
that
stage
is
only
centralized
the
type
of
the
stable
coin
like
Italian
USD,
like
Circle
USD,
so
they
are
controlled
by
the
centralized
institutions.
They
are
handled
by
centralized
collector,
license
stations,
everything
but.
I
When
we
go
to
the
D5
summer,
a
new,
a
new,
a
new
space
came
out,
the
community
is,
is
passionate
about
it
and
we
see
a
very
good
utility
utilization
and
advantage
of
to
to
use
the
the
real
blockchain
technology
to
make
it
more.
You
know
how
to
say
that
transparent
and
more
High
efficient
for
the
usage
of
the
the
capitals.
That's
so
that's
why
the
decentralized
stablecoin
came
out,
and
so
far
from
from
a
crypto
exchange
angle,
we
see
a
two
main
scenario
for
the
stable
coin
number.
I
One
is
definitely
trading
because
there's
still
a
lot
of
Institutions
API
Traders
equatorial
investors
on
the
market.
They
want
to
look
for
a
very
good
Arbitrage
space.
The
stable
coin
is
one
of
the
good.
You
know
use
case
for
them.
Another
one
is
it's
just
Danny
and
Mark
mentioned
so,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
it's
a
currency
right,
even
stablecoin
is
a
currency.
Why?
I
You
need
a
currency
because
you
need
a
a
staff
which
you
can
exchange
the
value
between
each
other,
so
so
the
stablecoin
another
big,
a
scenario
is
definitely
utilization,
but
it
already
depends
on
which
part
of
the
utilization
you
want
to
use
in
the
very
beginning.
It's
definitely
start
from
the
payment.
So
that's
the
two
main
parts
we
see
so
far,
but
Me
Maybe
in
the
coming
future.
As
Danny
just
mentioned,
there
are
a
lot
of
new.
You
know
space
camera.
A
lot
of
new
scenarios
came
out.
H
I
You
may
use
the
stablecoin
to
adopt
more
users
from
web
2
to
Webster,
correct
yeah
I
mean
yeah,
so
for
web3
users
I
mean
for
web2
users.
The
main
challenge
for
them
is
number
one:
the
understanding
of
the
concept,
how
you're
going
to
understand
what
is
web3,
how
you
understand?
What
is
you
know,
decentralization
and
what's
the
advantage
of
it,
and
why
you
want
to
use
it
or
why
you
have
to
use
it,
there's
a
lot
of
users
when
they
stay
in
the
web
tube
they
they
get
used
to
web2.
I
I
So
the
number
one
is
definitely
how
to
let
them
know
and
recognize
the
concept
and
number
two
when
they
really
have
the
awareness,
how
they're
gonna
move
themselves
into
the
utilization
of
the
you
know
the
web's
reward,
so
stablecoin
is
very
important
because
not
every
single
applications.
We
see
on
the
market
now
they
have
the
good
Affair
solution,
which
means,
if
you
have
the
US
dollar,
you
have
euro
dollar.
You
have
Singapore
dollar,
as
I
did
I
step
in
Singapore.
I
E
I
would
I
would
agree
with
the
Edward,
and
you
know
really
not
much
to
add.
I
personally
see
two
main
use
cases.
The
number
one
is
that
stablecoin
is
a
great
tool
for
exchanging
of
value
literally
paying
for
something,
and
the
second
one
is,
of
course,
everything
related
to
trading
and
financial
activity.
When
one
wants
to
park
their
I
don't
know
Bitcoin
into
something
more
stable
for
a
period
of
time
or
exit
into
a
stable
coin,
because
of
some
reasons.
E
Great
question:
thank
you.
First
of
all,
the
number
one
differentiator
I
believe
is
that
usn
is
able
to
provide
I'd
call
it
native
and
sustainable
yields
when
near
from
the
reserve,
is
actually
staked
into
a
near
validator
and
there
is
received
awards
are
then
converted
into
usn.
This
is
the
feature
literally,
that
is
utilizing
the
nature
of
near
protocol,
which
is
a
dpos
protocol,
and
hardly
any
other
stable
coin
can
offer
that
especially
centralized.
E
Cannot
those
that
are
launched
on
blockchains
that
don't
actually
support
these
kind
of
functionality
cannot
offer
these
type
of
yields.
That's
number
one
number
two
is
the
huge
difference
will
be
related
to
transactions
in
USM
to
be
paid
in
USM,
which
means
you
don't
need,
additionally
near
or
ethereum
or
TRX,
depending
on
the
protocol
you're.
E
E
As
I
mentioned,
the
stable
swap
core
extremely
extremely
Financial,
efficient
one-to-one
minting
from
other
stable
points
that
is
more
for
retail
users,
the
that
is
more
for
those
who
maybe
want
to
rebalance
their
risk
when
compared
to
owning
just
usdt
or
just
use
DC.
But
on
the
other
hand,
we'll
have
the
second
core.
The
CDP
based
core
working
parallel,
which
is
which
has
a
much
more
defyish
kind
of
specialty.
E
I,
don't
know
that
will
allow
people
to
keep
their
Bitcoin
yet
get
some
amount
of
usn
and
use
it
on
the
market
and
then
be
able
to
safely
return
it
and
get
their
Bitcoin
back.
The
other
very
important
thing
about
launching
the
CDP
core
is
that,
in
addition
to
launching
they
actually
the
second
core,
that's
able
to
Mint
USM
from
over
collateralized
positions.
The
important
thing
is
that
we're
adding
the
functionality
of
a
money
market
where,
for
example,
you
can
bring
your
BTC
receive.
E
Usn
and
I
can
loan
your
BTC,
which
makes
your
collateral
actually
work
and
earn
additional
yield
for
you
and
that
mix
of
on
one
hand,
giving
you
a
very
clear
feature
of
hey.
You
want
usn
here
you
go.
On
the
other
hand,
we're
giving
you
the
opportunity
that
your
collateral,
or
at
least
part
of
it,
will
always
stay
at
work
and
bring
additional
yield,
and
we
believe
that
this
mix
of
one
hand
kind
of
straightforward,
stable
coin.
E
H
I
The
competitiveness
of
the
Stable
Market
yeah
yeah,
that's
a
good
question
to
be
friendly.
We
see
a
lot
of
stablecoin
operator
on
the
market
or
a
lot
of
team.
They
have
the
passion
to
run
a
good
stablecoin
project,
but
it's
to
be
friendly.
The
the
successful
case
is
very
rather
fewer
than
in
the
failure
case,
because
you
know
number
one
you,
you
really
need
to
have
a
very
good
command
of
you
know:
economics.
You
know
the
currency,
you
know
how
to
run
a
very
good
economic
system.
I
Well,
that's
number
one
number
two,
not
only
for
the
you
know
the
understanding
and
the
and
the
setup
the
whole
mechanism,
but
you
also
need
how
to
operate.
Well,
that's
the
main
part
as
just
then
you
mentioned
right,
so
you
need
to
have
a
very
good
usage
case.
You
have
to
have
very
good
utilization
case.
I.
Think
that
angle
is
very
good.
I
mean
you
tell
you,
you
divide
your.
How
do
you
say
your
your
Solutions
or
your
usage
case
based
on
different
your
target
audience
to
demand
the
real
demanding?
I
That's
that's
the
most
important
part
about
the
majority
of
the
stable
coin
operators
or
Team
on
the
market.
They
don't
do
that
they
just
focus
on
their
own
concept,
build
up.
They
think.
Oh,
this
is
a
good
idea.
I
I
think
the
algorithm
I
set
up
is
fantastic,
but
they
didn't
do
they
didn't.
You
know,
look
from
the
the
user
angle.
I
think!
That's
that's
very
important
part!
You
have
to
look
through
the
user
angle
why
they
need
your
stable
coin.
What
kind
of
what
kind
of
scenario
they
need?
I
Your
stable
coin
by
this
you
build
a
very
strong,
demanding
pool
and
and
a
convert.
This
demand
input
into
your
liquidity
and
and
converting
liquidity
into
your.
You
know
bigger
size
of
the
you
know
the
the
volume
pool,
and
then
you
have
a
very
strong
market
share
on
the
market,
so
that
that
would
be
a
very
important
competitiveness
strategy
yeah.
I
So
we
were
always
trying
to
support
this
type
of
the
strategy
energy
because
from
a
centralized
institution
we
used
to
have
our
own
space
stable
coin,
which
you
just
mentioned
right,
but
now
we
don't
have
so
we're
willing
to
to
back
all
the
stable,
stable
coin
operators
who
have
very
good.
You
know,
operation
and
strategies,
so
I
think
USA
is
one
of
the
best
for
them,
so
we're
very
happy
to
support
them
and
open
our
community
to
them.
I
I
H
E
E
I
think
the
key
points
of
our
current
strategy
is
that,
first
of
all,
we're
doing
everything
possible
to
make
you
send
stable
and
reliable,
because
without
building
trust
and
without
clearly
stating
why
your
son
is
stable,
why
the
audience
the
user
should
not?
Even
you
know
somebody
might
use
the
word
believe,
but
I
don't
like
that
word,
because
usually
people
are
asked
to
believe
in
something
that
kind
of
has
doubt
to
it.
But
in
our
case
we
want
to
make
it
very
clear
that
this
is
USM.
That's
how
it's
built.
E
Today,
looking
back
at
the
days
when
they
launched
how
they
evolved,
how
they
grew
well,
it
was
pretty
clear
why
they
did
this
and
they
didn't
do
that,
but
usn
was
launched
in
Spring
of
2022
right.
There
are
a
lot
of
competitors
on
the
market.
There
are
a
lot
of
things
that
somebody
did.
Somebody
will
do
and
we
have
to
pave
our
own
way
and
that
forces
us
not
just
to
do
what
we
think
is
right,
but
rather
to
understand
what
the
market
needs.
E
I
Yeah
I
have
something
add-on
here
so
because
for
the
stable
coin,
how
do
you
say
battle
or
competitiveness
is
very
similar,
as
you
know,
the
centralized
crypto
exchange
battle
and
the
competitive
this
as
we're
facing
now,
but
that
is
one
ultimate.
How
do
you
say?
A
strategy
is
always
the
right
strategy
trying
to
find
at
the
incremental
part
of
the
user
case,
because
when
you're
doing
existing
Market
Battle,
you
will
always
higher
cost
to
convert
existing
users.
I
H
I
I
Very
straightforward,
like
you
can
search
everything
online
on
channel
right,
everything
is
transparent,
but
for
centralized
crypto
exchange
SS
we're
trying
to
show
everything
as
much
as
we
can,
but
there's
still
some
centralized
product
which
we
cannot
show
to
the
users,
like
you
know,
risk
control
system
and
the
security
control
system
right.
All
this
files
cannot
show.
But
for
the
you
know,
stable
coin,
you
can
always
do
that
yeah.
But
how?
I
How
centralized
institution
to
to
prove
to
the
users
that
you
are
transparent
enough
or
you
are
trustworthy
enough
is
by
you
know
the
regulation
or
the
license,
because
you
have
a
third
party
to
endorse
you,
they
say:
hey.
4B
is
good
right
as
so.
That's
why
we
are
continuing
a
lot
of
license
globally
yeah
yeah.
G
I
You
go
me
for
myself.
I
mean
we're
willing
to
look
to
to
find
a
more.
You
know,
new
Innovative
and
a
better
stablecoin
solution
on
the
market
and
we're
always
trying
to
back
them
to
support
them.
Even
we
created
the
China
Market,
we
still
very
active
on
the
global
market.
I
will
try
all
kinds
of,
and
we
have
very
strong
presence
in
Asia.
I
We
still
want
the
top
five
in
top
top
three
in
Asia
top
fighting
globally,
so
we're
still
trying
best
to
to
back
all
the
strong
stablecoin
operators.
So
that's
our
attitude,
but
in
terms
of
in
terms
of
the
technology
side
to
differently,
we
are
not
expert
expertise,
so
we
cannot
tell
much.
But
there's
one
thing
we
think
is
very
important
is
at
the
end
it's
the
collateral.
You
have
to
have
enough
collection
to
support
your
project,
otherwise
a
little
bit
challenged.
Another
part
is
you
have
to
think
carefully
about
your
growth
strategy?
I
E
As
for
me,
I
believe
I
truly
believe
that
the
future
of
web3
is
tightly
connected
with
the
whole
industry
of
stable
coins.
Building
building
out
and
for
now,
despite
stable
coins
have
been
on
the
market
for
a
few
years
by
now,
I
think
that
is
very
much
still
the
very
first
stages
of
this
gigantic
I'm
I'm,
absolutely
sure
gigantic
industry
and
I
think
these
are
great
times.
E
Somebody
might
say
that
hey
if
you
launched
usn
like
a
few
months
before
the
events
of
May
well
yeah
from
one
point
of
view,
that
could
have
kind
of
be
better
but
I'm
afraid
that
it
could
have
been
better
only
in
extremely
short
time
period
in
a
short
run,
but
in
a
long
run
I'm.
A
great
believer
that
you
know
kind
of
bad
times
create
strong
people,
strong
projects
and
exactly
the
events
of
May.
E
The
reasons
why
we
switched
to
version
2
and
now,
switching
to
version
3
is
actually
that
complicated
path,
we're
going
that
allows
us
to.
Finally,
you
know
create
that
multi-faceted
complicated
solution
that
is
actually
has
higher
chances
to
stay
on
the
market
for
many
years
yet
be
ahead
technically
and
governance
wise
and
maybe
even
legally,
compared
to
some
other
popular
stable
coins
that
have
been
on
the
market
for
ages.
E
We've
seen
beautiful
examples
of
how
people
tried,
but
the
market
said
like
hey.
It
doesn't
matter
what
you
try.
The
rules
are
this
and
if
we
don't
want
people
to
keep
on
losing
money
and
at
the
same
time,
the
web
2
world
looking
at
web
3
pointing
fingers
at
us
and
saying
that
they're
scammers,
obviously
we're
not.
E
A
Thanks
everyone.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
thanks
Lindsay,
thank
you
to
that
to
all
our
panelists
Lindsay,
Danny
and
Edward.
Now
you
guys
are
going
to
want
to
stick
around
for
the
next
two
sessions
because
they're
going
to
be
big,
it's
a
sharding,
double
header
and
we're
gonna.
Kick
it
off
with
sharding
phase
one,
why
you
should
be
excited
a
talk
by
Max
from
pagoda
coming
up,
Max.
K
So
what
is
what
is
phase
one
up
until
now?
If
you
are
validator
or
near
mainnet,
you
have
to
run
a
node
which
validates
all
of
the
shards
and
does
the
block
production,
and
this
is
quite
a
lot
of
the
CPU
computation
and
you
need
a
lot
of
state
and
you
need
all
that
to
be
collocated
on
the
same
machine.
So
this
is
not
the
way
to
do
sharding.
K
So
what
we're
doing
now
we're
transitioning
to
the
phase
where
you
can
start
up
a
node
that
will
be
only
doing
the
validation
of
A
Single
Shard,
and
it
will
do
four
times
less
CPU
computation
and
will
require
four
times
less
States,
and
this
is
pretty
big
and
important
because
there
are
major
implications
to
this
transition.
Well,
first
of
all
is
that
we
can
have
simply
more
validators.
So
today
we
have
100
validators
on
mainnet,
now
you're
going
to
have
300,
and
one
thing
that
I
wanted
to
understand
is
that
near
validators
are
actual
realable.
K
Dealers
like
every
blockchain,
has
their
own
definition
of
the
validators,
but
on
near,
if
you're,
a
validator
you're
not
just
earning
stake
in
Rewards,
you
are
actually
securing
every
single
header
every
second
that
Minit
produces.
So
if
we
have
300
validators,
there
are
300
signatures.
Every
second
securing
every
single
header,
whether
it's
a
block
header
or
chunk
header,
and
it's
a
pretty
big
deal
because
going
from
100
to
300
validators
increases
the
security
and
decentralization
of
the
entire
maniac.
Threefold
then
obviously
phase
one
is
the
only
one
Milestone
of
our
big
shouting
roadmap.
K
It's
a
important
stepping
stone
phase,
two
that
I'm
gonna
explain
later
and
finally,
one
thing
that
not
many
actually
talk
about
is
it's.
This
unique
power
of
the
near
blockchain,
which
is
we
can
actually
reduce
the
hardware
requirements
for
some
of
the
nodes
that
do
not
do
the
validation
of
all
of
the
shards.
So
if
you
do
four
times
less
CPU
computation
and
you
need
four
times
less
disk
space,
you
can
run
four
times
cheaper
instance.
K
So
this
phase
one
was
a
truly
Community
effort
and
I'm
incredibly
proud
of
that
the
code
was
written
by
Pagoda
this
time,
but
I
hope
that
in
the
future
the
code
for
the
protocol
will
be
written
by
the
community
too.
This
time
the
community
helped
us
test
this
code
and
iterate
on
it,
and
we
had
1500
people
joining
in
and
working
with
us
for
many
months
on
actual
testing.
K
K
It's
pretty
neat,
so
I
also
want
to
talk
about
the
usage
of
the
of
the
near
blockchain.
This
is
also
another
thing
that
not
many
people
are
talking
about.
We've
been
very
focused
on
the
transactions
and
TPS
in
the
blockchain
space,
but
this
is
not
the
only
way
you
measure
the
usage
of
the
blockchain,
also
because
every
blockchain
defines
transactions
differently
or
near
blockchain.
A
transaction
is
actually
a
user
interaction
and
sometimes
even
multiple
user
interactions
bash
in
a
single
transaction.
So
on
your
blockchain
transaction
is
not
a
network
message.
K
It's
not
an
RPC
request,
it's
an
actual
user
interaction
and
there
are
pretty
cool
metrics
outside
the
transactions
too.
The
most
impressive
one
to
me
is
how
many
messages
minute
nodes
exchange
every
second
just
to
establish
consensus,
and
it
is
50
500,
000
messages.
Every
second
exchange,
just
before
leader
notes
on
the
mainnet
and
I,
want
to
assure
you
that
our
network
is
really
optimized
and
we
try
to
exchange
as
little
as
possible
messages
between
the
nodes.
K
The
other
important
numbers
are
how
many
read
requests
we're
getting
for
people
who
run
the
apps
on
on
the
mainnet.
So
Pagoda
maintains
this
public
RPC
and
point
that
everyone
is
using
and
we
have
11
000
RPC
reads
every
second
from
the
apps,
and
this
is
also
because
the
apps
are
so
easy
to
build
and
near
and
have
the
interfacer
responses
that
people
really
leverage
the
RPC
when
they
build
the
apps
on
here.
K
We
truly
have
not
encountered
any
feature
on
other
blockchains
that
we
haven't
thought
could
be
introduced
the
near
protocol,
so
if
you're
very
excited
about
some
protocol
features
on
other
blockchains,
maybe
you've
seen
some
virtual
machine
that
you
like
or
contract
language,
or
maybe
you
want
to
have
some
kind
of
integration.
For
instance,
recently
people
have
been
discussing
integration
with
Cosmos,
please
come
to
us
and
propose
either
through
any
enhancement
proposal
or
the
what
so-called
work
groups
introduced
in
these
features
for
the
near
protocol
really
want
this
to
be
Community
effort.
K
It
shouldn't
be
just
Pagoda
building
all
of
the
code
like
we
do
today.
It
should
be
done
by
the
entire
community.
So
if
you
have
ideas,
then
you
know
what
you
want
to
implement.
Submit
proposal
come
to
the
word
groups,
if
you're
just
excited-
and
you
want
to
help
in
some
way,
come
to
our
community
groups
and
brainstorm
with
everyone
and
even
create
your
own
community
group.
If
you
want,
there
is
going
to
be
a
talk
tomorrow
by
Ori,
which
is
called
high
standards.
K
A
Thanks
so
much
for
that
Max,
you
can
go
off
stage.
We
are
going
to
reset
the
stage
for
a
large
community
panel
to
talk
over
all
of
those
things
that
Max
just
mentioned:
stake,
Wars
and
more
with
all
of
pagoda's
Community
Partners.
So
if
you've
just
joined
us,
I'm
June
I'm
your
host
for
the
stage
today,
this
stage
is
running
50
minutes
behind
so
plus
50
minutes
on
the
agenda.
If
you
look
at
the
agenda,
we're
50
minutes
behind,
because
we
had
to
start
a
little
late
now,
I
believe
we
are
almost
set.
L
L
All
right,
oh,
can
you
guys
hear
me
with
my
mic
now
awesome
all
right
excellent.
So
we
are
all
thrilled
to
be
here.
I
think
I
want
to
just
call
out
a
quick
cue
which
is
Viet
near
believe
in
building
creating
without
any
limits
what
I
mean
by
that
is
no
limits
in
terms
of
building
anything
on
here,
for
example,
you
can
use
any
language
not
just
rest.
We
have
Js
SDK
as
well
to
support
hundreds
of
millions
of
developers
who
can
actually
onboard
easily.
J
J
Yeah
I'll
go
right
ahead,
so
you
know
when
I
looked
at
different
Brock
chains,
I
looked
at
near
and
its
sharding
capabilities
and
what
they
had
forecasted
looked
like.
It
was
really
not
only
good
from
a
technology
stack
but
also
from
a
developer.
So
what's
great
about
near,
is
you
don't
have
to
focus
on
the
technology?
You
build
your
D
app,
you
build
your
code
base
and
the
tech
just
works,
so
I
think
that's
the
best
benefit
there.
M
Yeah
I
tend
to
come
at
it
from
like
the
product
used
to
experience
side
of
things
and
when
you
look
at
different
blockchains
and
their
approach
to
scalability,
it
may
scale
with
like
strings
attached.
So
when
you
look
at
near
and
the
fact
that
you
can
have
cross-contract
calls
the
developers,
the
programs,
the
users
don't
have
to
know
or
care
which
charge
they
leave
on
the
network,
can
expand
and
contract
based
on
demand.
M
N
Yeah
I
mean
agree
with
the
AVP
if
we've
been
you're
looking
at
different,
blockchains
and
obviously
I
think
near
has
struck
the
perfect
balance
between
scalability
and
performance
and
security
and
decentralization
so
like
for
a
liquid
sticking
protocol.
You
know
you
want
to
actually
help
decentralizing,
the
blockchain
and
saying
you
know
sharding,
you
know
Chunk
on
in
production
and
in
the
future,
Dynamic
starting
like
that's
like
built-in
decentralization.
You
know
on
the
protocol
level
and
that
that
works
very
well
with
the
liquid
sticking
protocol.
N
K
With
many
other
blockchains
that
have
some
formal
shot
in
whether
they
call
it
sharding
or
not,
you
do
really
have
trade-offs,
usually
with
developer
experience.
Usually
developer.
Experience
is
an
afterthought,
mostly
because
all
of
the
all
of
the
hype
and
two
years
ago
was
about
consensus
algorithms,
so
some
kick-ass
gimmicks
but
near
was
focused
on
developer
experience
from
the
very
early
days.
So
we
figure
out
how
to
do
sharding
without
degrading
developer
experience,
and
our
ideal
is
to
for
you
as
a
developer,
to
not
even
think
that
we
have
Sharden.
K
We
want
you
to
just
deploy
a
smart
contract
and
don't
bother
like
with
what
has
happening
behind
the
scenes,
which
is
entirely
the
opposite
to
many
other
blockchains,
that
you
want
you
to
learn
and
appreciate
the
complexity
of
whatever
attack
that
they
have
built
and
learn.
You
know
about
their
consensus,
algorithm
and
you
know,
and
and
build
around
that-
and
this
is
entirely
the
opposite
to
to
near
approach.
O
So
from
a
different
angle,
that
Simplicity,
which
we
want
to
give
to
the
application
developers
and
that
scalability
actually
behind
the
scenes,
translates
in
a
lot
of
effort,
adapter
doing
ourselves
to
make
the
protocol
easy
to
adopt,
and
that
effort
is
a
community
effort.
It
comes
from
Pagoda
and
from
all
the
partners
who
are
actually
with
us
in
in
the
effort
of
creating
a
stable
and
a
scalable
blockchain.
L
What
has
it
been?
The
journey
from
the
partners
perspective,
let's
start
from
the
partners
perspective
like
how
is
that
being
for
you
to
build
alongside
Pagoda,
right
and
and
coming
from
the
community
point
of
view
and
I?
Think
Max
mentioned
a
lot
of
numbers
statistics
and
such
but
I
want
to
get
your
kind
of
point
of
view
here
as
well.
Yeah.
J
M
All
right,
yeah
from
my
perspective,
I,
really
like
the
finding
the
right
balance
between
having
a
strong
core
technical
team
delivering
these
improvements
and
the
community
involvement.
So
we've
been
around
since
the
very
beginning,
open
shorts,
Alliance
Medical,
enabling
empowering
training
the
new
sets
of
validators.
You
know
since
stake
Wars
2
and
the
last
batch
of
40
validators
to
stake
Force
three
and
the
next
batch
of
100
200
validators.
M
N
You
know
fundamental
changes.
You
know
on
the
particle
level,
but
it's
so
super
smooth
nobody's
affected
either
validators
or
users.
I
mean
that's
amazing
for
us
and
also
yeah,
it's
great
to
see
that
we
are,
you
know,
helping
you
know,
onboarding
more
violators
and
those
onboarding
more
stakers,
and
it's
great
to
see
you
know
both
sides
are
like
growing
and
like
right
now
you
know
it's
a
thick
War,
so
we've
onboarded
in
a
couple
hundred
new
tank,
only
validators
and
also
on
the
other
side.
N
L
That's
that's
excellent
and
George.
Do
you
want
to
kind
of
bring
a
full
full
run
perspective
like
that
is
from
the
community
in
the
validator
perspective?
But
if,
if
in
the
audience,
we
have
a
lot
of
Builders
and
developers
how
that
is
significant
in
terms
of
sharding
and
for
them
to
build
on
near
blockchain.
O
L
L
It's
it's
humbling,
to
say
the
least,
like
the
feedbacks
that
we
get
both
good
in
terms
of
the
wins
and
also
in
terms
of
the
learnings
right,
so
the
things
that
we
can
actually
take
that
as
a
learning
for
the
the
future
of
the
charlatans
right.
So
that
brings
to
the
the
next
topic
that
I
wanted
to
talk
about.
Is
the
future
right,
so
I
think
Max,
sort
of
eluded
a
lot
of
things
in
his
presentation.
L
But
specifically,
what
I
I
want
to
think
about
is
one
to
give
a
cue
into
the
future
of
State
Wars
like
post
phase
one.
What
is
Phase
two's
ability
to
take
the
stakehorse
further
down
right,
so
I
want
to
kind
of
get
a
little
more
into
like.
What
are
you
guys
planning
in
terms
of
the
next
episodes
for
the
state
course
so.
J
I
think
we've
learned
a
lot
of
lessons
right.
We
continue
to
learn
as
this
is
actually
the
third
stake.
War.
So
we've
gotten
a
lot
of
good
feedback
from
the
community.
We've
got
some
new
tools,
we're
building
we're
looking
at
tools
for
auto
delegation,
managing
stake,
doing
some
things
like
that.
So
that's
from
kind
of
the
organizations
side
and
then,
of
course,
as
we
continue
to
expand,
sharding
we're
talking
about
more
validators,
so
we've
got
to
bring
them
through
the
process
of
onboarding
them
and
and
helping
educate
them
through
the
process.
M
M
The
humans
May
behave
in
ways
that
were
not
intended,
so
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
lessons
around
structuring
the
competition
in
a
way
that
leads
to
the
desired
outcome
like
we
battle
tested
the
code,
but
some
incentives
had
to
be
tweaked
along
the
way.
So
we've
got
a
nice
Playbook
now
on
how
to
optimize
for
future
iterations.
The
second
one
which
I
mentioned
very
briefly,
is
when
you
look
at
the
community
aspect.
M
It
also
requires
commitment,
like
we're,
really
proud
to
be
on
the
community
side
as
Builders
and
to
be
able
to
represent
the
stakers
and
validators,
but
Community
requires
the
commitment
to
show
up
and
it's
basically
a
full-time
workload,
and
you
want
to
you
need
to
be
aligned
with
the
ultimate
outcome
to
be
able
to
do
the
sacrifices
along
the
way
and
I
guess
it's
a
message
to
everyone
in
the
community
to
get
involved,
but
also
it's
not
just.
You
know
shouting
loudly
on
Twitter
it's
showing
up
and
doing
the
work.
B
N
Yeah
for
being
here
like
stick,
war
is
never
just
about.
You
know:
onboarding
more
violiners,
I
think
like
what's
more
like
more,
like
even
more
Virgo.
First
is
that
we've
heard
a
lot
of
feedback
and
we've
received
many
good
submissions
from
the
tenants
we
posted
I
think
like
one
is
about
violators,
stats
and
Mystics,
and
the
other
one
is
about
taking
form
like
those
I.
N
Think
those
things
are,
you
know
a
very
sort
of
you
know
core
to
the
to
the
near
protocol
level
and
in
fact,
it's
taking
a
form
which
is
very
unique
to
near
I.
Think
that's
sort
of
you
know
like
the
real
value
of
stick
war,
so
you
actually
get
get
get
get
the
community
involved,
and
you
turn
on
more
and
more
people
to
think
about
near
and
to
create
and
to
create
on
top
of
near
and
yeah.
We
think
that's
really
the
core
value
of
stick
war
and
obviously
we're
gonna.
L
K
It's
not
going
to
be
just
big
players
like
here
on
a
panel
today
who
Stick
or
or
become
validators,
but
you're
gonna,
see
enthusiasts
participating
too,
and
so
the
small
time
validators
will
will
fight
for
their
reputation
yeah
and
they
would
want
to
contribute
certain
features,
and
they
would
want
to
build
the
community
and
have
some
kind
of
multiplicative
effect.
And
this
is
what
I'm
really
looking
forward
for
that.
L
L
We
talked
about
easily
upgradeable,
bring
any
feature
and
we
will
kind
of
parody
match,
like
any
retailer
does
so
yeah
I
just
want
to
just
double
click
on
that
more
and
and
talk
about
composability,
which
the
questions
comes
on
hey.
Should
we
solve
that
on
layer,
one
or
Layer
Two?
Where
should
that
responsibility
lie
on?
So,
if
you
have
any
commentary
around
that
yeah.
K
Absolutely
developer
experience
is
sacred
to
near
and,
as
Henry
said
already,
no
one
have
even
noticed
that
Chardon
phases
have
been
launched
because
they
didn't
need
to
update
their
smart
contracts,
and
this
hasn't
happened
randomly
we
actually
put
a
lot
of
thought
into
it.
We
knew
from
the
very
early
days
that
we
don't
want
to
interfere
with
the
already
deployed
smart
contracts,
so
we're
going
to
continue
developing
in
the
direction
of
developer
experience
and
we're
going
to
leverage
all
kind
of
Integrations
so
that
when
you
come
to
near
you
don't
need
to
learn
anything
new.
K
There
should
not
be
should
not
be
better.
We
should
not
have
any
barrier
for
the
onboarding
for
people
coming
on
near,
and
so
that's
where
the
Integrations
with
other
blockchains
can
would
come
in
because
you
would
just
either
migrate
or
integrate.
The
same
goes
for
the
virtual
machine,
so
the
programming
languages
that
we're
going
to
support.
So
that's
I
think
that
you
should
be
looking
specifically
forward
for.
L
J
And
yeah
I'll
just
go
back
to
the
key
points.
You
know.
If
you're
looking
at
developing
on
near
right,
we've
expanded
the
number
of
shards
we've
increased.
You
know
the
number
of
validators
that
will
continue
to
change
and
evolve,
but
it's
no
change
to
you
as
a
Dev.
So
right
it's
a
simple
interface,
whether
using
rust
or
JavaScript,
with
front-end
development.
You
can
come
in
and
build
on
near
and
not
really
have
to
worry
about
the
tech,
so
that
I
think
that
makes
near
very
compelling
and
scalable
for
Developers.
M
Many
reasons
to
build
a
nearer,
but
maybe
specific,
to
sharding
and
stake
Wars
I
like
that
decentralization
is
very
intentional
as
well
like
when
you
look
at
a
network
being
decentralized.
The
nodes
need
to
be
both
sprayed
out
geographically,
but
also
politically
and
being
very
intentional
about
reaching
out
to
the
community
and
enabling
them
to
join
the
validator
set.
You
will
actually
see
a
very
meaningful
distribution
of
the
near
across
many
validators,
and
that
really
makes
the
network
resilient
and
yeah
it's
just
very
exciting.
N
Yeah
I
think
the
next
step
was
yeah.
It's
actually
to
you
to
grow
usage
because
we've
got
the
best
info.
We've
got
the
best
community.
We've
got
a
very
decentralized
group
of
validators,
and
you
know
now,
it's
time
to
you
know,
make
100
of
Youth
of
it
right
so
and
for
us
we're
gonna
keep
facilitating
that
sort
of
breaching
process
between
the
best
infra
to
the
most
used
infra
yeah.
So
that's
our
vision.
B
K
So
with
near
the
developers
that
build
smart
contracts
on
the
blockchain
are
not
just
the
users
of
the
blockchain
they're,
also
the
Builders
of
this
blockchain,
so
the
earlier
you
join
the
more
you
will
be
able
to
affect
the
roadmap
of
the
near
protocol.
Many
of
the
vertical
features
like
pre-compiles
today
are
actually
were
proposed
by
the
contract
builders.
L
Absolutely
just
to
wrap
up
it's
it's
just
amazing.
What
you're
hearing
I
think
if
you
really
want
to
get
your
hands
dirty,
you
have
to
come
and
start
proposing
and
building
and
as
he
mentioned,
Ori
is
presenting
NEP.
It's
it's
the
way
of
proposing
and
contributing
the
code
base
as
well,
and
we
really
encourage
you
guys
to
starts
submitting
proposals
or,
at
the
least
come
to
the
Pagoda
Booth.
Here.
If
you
have
any
questions,
comments
suggestions,
we
are
happy
to
take
anything
so
we
it
has
to
be
completely
communicable
and
we
really
encourage
that.
L
Q
Hey
everybody
I
hope
you
enjoyed
the
break
I
hope
you
got
to
try
some
of
the
great
food
we
have
out
there
from
different
regions.
I
really
want
to
thank
you
for
coming
out
and
joining
us
here
at
near
con.
This
year
it's
been
a
great
turnout,
I
hope
you're
managing
to
keep
dry
out
there.
So
yeah.
We
have
some
great
great
panels
coming
up.
I
hope
that
you
guys
enjoy
them.
I
want
to
introduce
a
young
Jean
she's,
going
to
be
speaking
about
crossing
the
chasm,
how
to
make
bridges
safe.
R
Hello
hi
all
right,
thank
you,
Marcus
and
thank
you
all
for
joining
us
today
on
this
discussion
around
making
Bridges
safe,
so
I'd
like
to
bring
up
to
the
stage
our
panelists
for
today.
So
let's
go
ahead
and
if
you
wouldn't
mind
coming
up,
we
have
glass
from
composable
Finance
kiddo
from
Aurora
labs
and
Jess
from
archway.
S
Totally
so
I
can
start
because
I'm
sitting
right
here,
my
name
is
Jessica
Solomon,
unfortunately
not
Jessica
Solomon.
However,
that
would
be
pretty
dope
and
so
I
work
on
a
number
of
different
things.
I
actually
started
my
career
back
in
the
ethereum
ecosystem.
I
was
the
first
Community
manager
at
maker,
Dow
started
at
the
launch
of
single
collateral
dye
in
2017..
S
Since
then,
I've
begun
Consulting
doing
strategy
working
on
a
number
of
different,
exciting
projects
within
web3.
It's
been
awesome
to
see
how
the
entire
web
3
ecosystem
has
really
grown,
especially
near,
and
everything
that's
popping
off
at
these
festivities,
but
currently
I'm
here,
working
on
a
project
called
Archway
Archway
is
pretty
cool.
It's
a
smart
Contracting
platform
for
Cosmos,
so
basically
a
way
for
people
to
deploy
dapps
and
access
Cosmos
assets
as
cosmos
is
a
large
ecosystem
where,
with
lots
of
different
chains,
so
sort
of
a
concentration
of
all
that.
T
Hi
I'm
kiril
I'm,
leading
the
Rainbow
Bridge
team
in
Aurora,
Labs,
building
everything
related
to
the
bridges
to
cross-chain
interoperability
and
yeah,
like
we
are
trying
to
build
and
we're
working
real
hard
super
hard
to
have
a
bridge
which
is
safe
because
yeah
you
know
like
this
is
quite
an
issue.
That's
that's.
Why
we're
here
on
the
panel
to
discuss
this
thing,
yeah
like
I'm,
quite
for
a
long
time
in
blockchain
for
many
years
and
yeah,
excited
to
build
these
things
and
excited
to
be
here
on
this
great
conference.
U
I'm
glass
I've
been
in
crypto
for
some
time,
I
started.
Building
a
derivatives
exchange
on
top
of
lighting
Network
then
moved
to
ethereum
worked
on
CG
Roll-Ups
I'm,
currently
leading
the
trusted
Bridges
I
composer
of
Finance.
So
we're
working
very
hard
to
make
this
happen
and
working
side
by
side
with
near
and
very
excited
to
be
here
and
being
part
of
his
amazing
movement.
R
Awesome,
so
thank
you
all
for
joining
me
this
afternoon.
So
obviously,
this
last
year
has
been
a
little
bit
crazy.
I
mean
from
Wormhole
to
Nomad
to
Ronan
according
to
chain
analysis,
roughly
two
billion
dollars
right,
two
billion
has
been
lost
to
bridge
hacks
in
the
last
year.
That's
an
astronomical
number
and
yes,
that's
very
crazy,
but
I
feel
like
the
media
narratives,
just
you
know
dominated
by
that.
R
I
feel
like
the
big
question
is:
how
do
we
make
that
interoperability
as
safe
as
possible,
and
so
that
brings
us
to
our
discussion
today
to
kicking
things
off
like
I
said,
obviously,
it's
been
a
crazy
year,
I'd
love
to
ask
each
of
you
kind
of
what
have
you
learned
from
the
recent
you
know
high
profile
hacks.
How
are
you
guys
kind
of
approaching
the
way
you
think
about
things
and
solve
problems
and
build.
S
Yeah,
absolutely
so
in
terms
of
a
number
of
the
high
profile
attacks.
Recently,
one
of
the
things
I've
observed
is
is
often
not
a
problem
with
the
actual
model.
It
could
be
as
simple
as
a
smart
contract
there.
However,
a
lot
of
these
Bridges
have
received
extremely
legitimate
Audits
and
have
been
verified.
That
being
said,
I'd
say
audits,
while
extremely
important
aren't
necessarily
the
Silver
Bullet
the
end-all
be-all
as
someone
that
works
on
projects.
T
Yeah
so
well,
you
know
like
a
lot
of
bridges
that
were
hacked.
They
actually
were
having
like
a
great
team
behind
them
and
yeah.
As
just
said,
they
had
like
some
audits,
but
it's
just
not
enough
and
for
some,
for
example,
bridges
for
hugs.
That
happened
like
if
we
talk
retrospectively.
Of
course,
it's
easier
to
talk
this
way.
Some
of
the
issues
were
because
of
the
processes.
T
So
it's
just
not
enough
to
have
an
audit,
because
some
of
the
hacks
happened
exactly
because,
like
the
smart
contract,
deployment
or
upgrades
went
wrong
and
it
went
wrong,
not
it
just
went
wrong
and
it's
a
mediated
hacked.
So
it
was
like
this
in
the
state
for
a
couple
of
months
until
somebody
noticed
it
so
I
would
say
it's
it's
about
General
approach
if
we
talk
how
to
make
it
safe.
T
So
let's
compare
to
some
like
real
world
like
situation
like
if
we
talk
about
some
robots
like
robust
Fails,
Like
aerial
industry.
Usually,
if
you
want
to
build
a
plane,
you
need
to
go
like
three
million
checkups
from
million
audits.
Eventually,
you
have
like
safe
flights,
but
it
comes
like
a
huge
value
behind
that
so
for
building
the
bridge.
From
my
perspective,
perhaps
they
ideal
approach
would
be
like,
let's
say,
to
use
waterfall
like
technology
to
go
from
multiple
stage
from
the
design
it
written.
T
But
then
just
one
Bridge
could
take
like
five
six
seven
years
to
build,
just
because
it's
quite
slow
to
iterate
and
the
blockchain.
Unfortunately,
you
have
no
chance.
If
you
don't.
If
you
build
your
products
for
years
and
years
and
you
don't
deliver
anything,
you
have
no
chance
actually
to
have
it
and
nobody
will
use
it.
T
You
will
build
the
safest
bridge,
but
nobody
will
use
it
for
years
and
after
these
years
and
like
from
my
perspective,
we
have
like
basically
two
approaches
to
build
a
bridge,
and
these
are
main
ones
with
regards
to
what
kind
of
let's
call
it
consensus
of
the
bridge.
So
the
most
popular
one
is
when
you
have
multiple
of
chain
validators
that
just
accept
some
transaction
on
one
chain.
T
They
verify
it
with
off-chain
tools,
and
then
they
like
mean
some
tokens
on
the
other
chain
and
most
of
the
bridges
work
in
this
way,
and
the
second
approach
is
that,
for
example,
we
are
using
up
to
the
Rainbow.
Bridge
is
basically,
we
are
building
light
clients
for
every
chain
that
is
connected
to
the
bridge.
T
The
like
keys
are
not
compromised
because
it's
trustless
it's
built
on
top
of
light
clients
and
you
trusted,
but
it's
trustless,
because
anyone
can
participate
and
submit
to
that
consensus,
so
yeah
in
some
sense
building
with
validators
it's
easier,
but
then
it's
harder
to
maintain.
But
here,
if
you
build
the
proper
one
live
client,
then
you
actually
get
rid
of
a
lot
of
pain.
Afterwards,.
U
Yeah
I
think
the
the
main
issue
is
that
we
are
catching
up
with
the
technology
in
in
how
the
user
need
is
evolving
and
the
and
the
constraints
of
the
different
chains.
So
some
years
ago,
ethereum
was
enough,
then
suddenly
it
was
not
enough
anymore.
Then
new
chains
were
developed.
You
have
near
as
a
great
example
and
then
suddenly
you
have
a
lot
of
ecosystems
that
are
isolated
and
then
the
need
of
connecting
them
came,
but
this
change
in
some
way
they
don't
move
as
fast
as
the
needs
of
the
market.
U
So
then
there
was
the
need
of
bringing
this
technology
in
a
way
that
perhaps
was
not
compliant
with
the
chain.
Necessarily,
so
these
Solutions
will
arose
The
Trusted
solutions
that
is
the
quick
and
and
dirty
solutions
that
we've
been
using,
that
some
of
them
have
been
working
really
well,
but
we've
we
started
seeing
that
they
have
also
limitations.
A
lot
of
attack
vectors
and
even
some
setups
that
were
more
secure
than
other
ones
were
also
compromised.
U
So
we
we
realized
that
there's
a
need
for
standardization
so
that
we
don't
reinvent
the
wheel
all
the
time
a
bit.
Okay.
It
was
saying
in
terms
of
like
using
like
clients,
but
for
that
you
need
the
different
ecosystems
to
support
that
infrastructure.
So
I
think
like
having
this
conversation
and
the
need
from
the
the
market
being
so
big
is
actually
forcing
the
chains
on
you
know
giving
this
this
infrastructure
to
to
the
builders,
the
infrastructure
Builders
as
well,
so
to
say
and
and
I
think
in
some
other
way.
U
We
need
to
agree
when
we
need
to
take
a
page
from
the
the
internet
Evolution
and
say
how
are
we
going
to
communicate
with
each
other?
Let's
agree
on
this:
let's
say
this
is
an
efficient
way
to
do
this
and
let's
not
talk
again
about
this
every
time.
Let's
not
build
a
new
company
all
this.
Every
time
we
don't
talk
about
TCP,
we
don't
talk
about
HTTP,
it's
a
standard,
we
all
agree,
and
then
we
build
on
top
of
that.
R
U
I
can
go
first,
I.
Think
yes,
I
mean
there's
always
a
smart
contract
risk,
it's
always
a
human
error
and
there's
always
somebody
being
smarter
than
somebody
else.
The
question
is:
how
can
we
mitigate
this
and
I?
Think
this
of
you
know.
White
hacker
bounties,
for
example,
is
a
great
way
of
mitigating
these
things.
I
think
there's
a
lot
that
can
be.
You
know
innovated
on
the
on
the
insurance.
Space
is
very,
very
little
Innovation
still
so
I
think
there's
probably
the
best
route
moving
forward.
S
T
From
I
agree
with
guys,
though,
from
my
perspective,
it's
not
just
balances
that
could
help
this,
so
we
think
like
in
our
Labs
or
about
the
bridge
and
about
basically
any
question
like
a
multi-layer
process
of
ensuring
the
security
so
first
of
all
like
if
you
build
some
smart
contracts,
it's
not
just
you
deploy
it.
So
basically
it's
ongoing
the
first
stage
of
the
Audis
of
the
bridge
team
itself
and
it's
been
verified
quite
thoroughly.
T
Then
the
second
stage,
it's
been
verified
by
some
other
folks,
like
from
other
teams
like
to
take
a
look
at
it
more
and
only
after
this
we
are
coming
to
the
station,
not
even
to
the
audience.
We
are
coming
to
the
stage
to
the
preparation
of
the
audience.
So
you
need
to
prepare
a
lot
of
documentations.
You
need
to
write
a
lot
of
tests
and
with
regards
to
tests,
we
believe
that
its
responsibility
of
Engineers
themselves
to
cover
it
with
the
tests.
So
it's
not
like
just
a
separate
QA
team.
T
When
you
write
some
code
and
any
blockchain
related
code,
it's
it's
security,
critical!
So,
basically,
you
need
to
put
a
lot
of
effort
to
cover
everything
with
the
test
different
ones,
integration
once
unit
tests.
This
is
a
quite
a
meticulous
process.
Only
after
this,
when
everything
is
prepared,
it
goes
to
the
audit
and
not
only
one
audits,
and
you
can
never
like
be
just
reliable.
Just
on
the
audit.
T
You
know,
especially
if
some
people,
sometimes
they
just
they,
possibly
owed
it
and
then
okay,
we
will
want
to
add
just
one
small
feature:
it's
fine,
but
that's
just
one
very
very
small
feature
could
introduce
actually
vulnerability
and
so
yeah
multiple.
All
these
are
required
not
just
only
one,
preferably
like
from
different
companies
that
are
not
biased
already
to
the
code
and
then
comes
the
thing
with
bounties
yeah.
T
So
with
some
of
the
bridges
with
some
of
the
hacks,
we
can
see
that
they
actually
introduce
bounties
after
they
got
hacked,
so
they
are
hacked
and
then
they
are
asking
like
black
hats.
Could
you
please
return,
and
we
will
give
you
some
bounty.
Unfortunately,
this
doesn't
work
usually
and
so
yeah.
You
need
to
introduce
Bounties
in
advance
and
for
us
it
was
quite
fruitful.
T
I
would
say
so:
we
paid
out
the
biggest
bound
like
the
second
biggest
bounty
in
a
blockchain
space,
which
was
like
for
6
million,
and
after
that
we
paid
like
a
couple
more
bounties
like
resulting
like
an
insane
amount
of
8
million
of
US
Dollars
and
for
whiteheads.
This
is
like
amazing
opportunity
to
participate.
It
makes
it
easier
because
you
don't
need
to
you,
know
you
if
you
like
a
black
hat
and
you
steal
a
money
then
like.
Basically,
you
have
an
issue
that
this
funds
are
frozen
for
years.
T
You
are
trying
to
get
not
caught
by
legal,
like
different
teams,
which
are
like
intelligence
teams
which
are
hunting
for
you.
So
it's
better
just
select
some
project
that
have
a
good
bike
bounty
program
and
please
be
a
whitehead
and
receive
like
a
huge
reward
and
also
not
not
Financial
rewards.
You
will
get
a
recognition
in
a
public
space,
so
yeah.
R
G
R
Yeah,
if
anyone
is,
you
know,
considering
hacking,
something
you
know
do
it
for
good.
You
know
be
a
white
hat
for
a
black
hat,
all
right,
so
I
guess
for
the
builders.
If
you're
considering
you
know
utilizing
a
bridge,
what
are
some
steps?
You
should
take
to
keep
it
as
safe
as
possible.
Obviously,
like
you
know,
as
you're
building
your
project,
you
can't
protect
for
everything
like
that's
just
another,
an
inevitable
truth
and
security
right
like
you,
can't
protect
against
every
single
vulnerability.
T
Yeah
so,
basically,
as
I
said,
it's
like
a
multi-layer
thing
to
make
a
protection,
but
also
behind
it.
You
really
need
to
have
a
security
team
who
is
able
to
quickly
react
to
any
incidents
like
24
7..
You
cannot
afford
having
like
just
a
weekend
for
security.
Hackers
will
not
wait
until
you
get
back
to
your
work
schedule
so
yeah.
You
need
really
to
have
24
7
someone
who
is
on
the
call
and
who
will
be
able
to
react
quickly.
T
You
need
to
build
a
robust
monitoring
system.
I
mean
this
monitoring
system.
They
are
not
public,
so
you
will
not
get
like
I,
don't
know
like
more
user
traction
just
because
you
build
monitoring
system,
but
this
is
an
essential
thing
that
you
need
to
build
just
to
protect
your
users.
It
could
be
invisible
from
the
outside
so
that
it's
nothing
happening,
but
you
really
need
to
build
a
robust
internal
monitoring
system
and
like
of
our
CDL,
is
some
public
monitoring
too.
So
everyone
is
able
to
verify.
U
Yeah
I
think
in
terms
of
data
analysis,
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
can
be
done.
I
was
the
other
day,
looking
at
a
tool
not
related
to
Bridges,
but
they
were
monitoring
system
calls
and
based
on
the
pattern
of
access
to
a
program,
you
could
basically
say:
okay,
this
is
malicious
activity,
and
this
can
also
be
you
know,
done
for
anything,
smart
contract
access
or
Unchained
activity
as
well,
where
you
can
just
say:
okay,
no,
this
is
a
historical
access
patterns.
What
is
normal,
what
is
abnormal,
and
you
know,
trigger
alerts.
U
S
Yeah,
like
these
guys
said,
I
think
in
web3
we're
all
sort
of
working
together
on
this
stuff.
So
as
someone
that
works
on
projects
that
would
rely
on
Bridges,
we
want
to
support
those
teams
where
we
can
and
help
discover
what
could
potentially
be
risky
for
our
users
ahead
of
time
and
then,
of
course
help
our
users
feel
safe
so
that
they
continue
to
be
a
part
of
the
web
3
ecosystem
moving
forward.
R
Awesome
all
right
so
I
have
one
last
question
and
then
we're
gonna
open
it
up
for
a
little
bit
of
q,
a
if
we
have
some
time
so
I
guess
to
wrap
things
up.
What
really
excites
you
right
now
like?
What's
getting
you
motivated?
Is
there
something
you
want
to
share
about
that
you're?
Just
like
really,
you
know
like
just
it
gets
you
up
in
the
morning.
S
Yeah
for
sure
we
all
need
reasons
to
wake
up
and
the
morning
here
and
because
we
don't
always
have
this
awesome
carnival
going
on
with
Ferris
wheels
and
carousels
but
yeah.
So
one
of
the
things
that
I'm
working
on
Archway
that
I
find
particularly
interesting
and
what
we're
entertaining
is
becoming
sort
of
a
hub
for
IBC
assets
from
near
so
that,
rather
than
having
multiple
different
representations
of
like
usdc,
for
example,
from
a
through
Zed
chain
on
IBC,
there
could
be
a
sort
of
concentration
of
liquidity
within
archway.
T
I
would
say:
that's
one
of
the
things
that
we
should
really
focus
is
like
from
our
vision.
It's
really
like
the
bridge.
You
need
to
put
a
lot
of
effort
to
make
it
trustless
as
much
as
possible,
so
the
process
of
making
it
trustless
it's
hard.
I
mean
you
need,
because
you
are
building
trusses,
you
need
to
ensure
that
any
actor
can
participate,
but
they
cannot
be
emulation
sector
or
if
they
are
malicious,
then
they
will
not
get
through.
It's
like
similar
to
the
blockchain
approach.
T
I
mean
on
the
blockchain
We
Trust,
some
consensus,
whether
it's
proof
of
work
or
proof
of
stake,
but
it's
decentralized.
If
we
build
decentralized
Bridges
well,
then
it
changes.
Everything
like
with
the
blockchain
like
another,
like
evolution
of
the
blockchain,
because,
like
by
default
blockchains,
are
not
interoperable
with
each
other,
and
if
we
come
to
the
question
like
whether
they
need
to
be
interoperable
well,
the
people
in
the
community,
they
say
that
they
should
be
like
it's.
It
will
not
work.
If
you
just
need
to
stick
to
one
chain,
not
anymore.
T
You
basically
use
like
one
two
five
chains,
whatever
and
yeah
I
mean
for
the
bridges
I
like
like
one
of
the
quotes,
it's
not
related
to
the
blockchain
bridges,
but
it
fits
actually
really
well
by
American
comedian,
Jerry
Seinfeld,
who
was
saying
like
nobody
wants
to
build
a
bridge.
It's
really
really
hard
so,
but
we
need
to
build
it
so
actually
Community
they
are
able
to.
You
know
like
get
all
the
beauty
and
all
the
features
of
the
block
chains
of
different
blockchains
to
have
like
one
echo
system
that
interconnected
that
is
secure.
U
For
us
I
think
a
bit
television
composer.
What
really
excites
us
is
to
become
invisible,
I
think
we
we
want
this
to
get
the
best
from
web
2
in
web
3..
This
idea
of
truly
intervaliability,
where
the
user
doesn't
really
need
to
understand.
What's
going
on,
what's
going
on
under
a
hood
and
things
just
work,
I
think
when,
when
these
panels
you
know
don't
exist
anymore,
our
work
has
probably
been
done
the
right
way
and
then
we
can
think
of
something
bigger.
R
V
Question
yeah
I
have
yeah
I
have
a
lot
of
thoughts
on
this.
The
the
gentleman
in
the
middle
that
just
suggested
like
a
blockchain
of
blockchains
I,
actually
work
for
that
project.
That's
been
built,
all
the
bridges
are
root,
cryptographically
secure
on
both
sides
and
the
first
bridge
is
live
on
the
ethereum
test
net
now
and
it
goes
live
at
mainnet
in
about
two
weeks
time
straight
after
the
merge,
the
Project's
called
Veris
v-e-r-u-s
dot
IO,
it
means
truth.
V
The
lead
Dev
was
the
CTO
of
Microsoft
for
advertising,
one
of
22
technical
fellows
in
the
history
of
Microsoft.
He
architected
and
built.net,
which
is
the
world's
largest
virtual
machine
and
argues
that
that
is
the
wrong
design
for
blockchains.
So
just
to
go
back
a
step.
If
you
use
the
company
like
Starbucks,
for
example,
they're
a
perfect
use
case
for
web3,
they
have
a
huge
loyalty
yeah.
You
know
branded
loyalty
currency
through
their
gift
cards,
with
billions
of
value
that
they
can't
put
on
there
on
the
a
balance
sheet.
V
But,
but
under
a
community
currency
they
could
right,
and
if
that
Community
currency
was
fully
fungible
with
Nike's
and
whatnot
and
they
were
all
interoperable.
That
would
be
basically
the
the
use
case
of
web3.
So
that's
exactly
what
we
facilitate,
but
I,
don't
think
a
company
like
Nike
or
like
Starbucks
are
going
to
participate
in
an
ecosystem
that
has
smart
contract
risk
that
has
Mev
that
has
front
running
that
has
back
running.
V
So
all
of
those
things
need
to
be
dealt
with
before
you're,
going
to
get
proper
actualization
of
web
3
and
I
think
saying
to
a
hacker
that
could
potential
whose
potential
upside
is.
You
know
millions
of
dollars
of
value?
Hey
we're
not
you
know
you
give
up
that
value
but
get
the
recognition
and
do
it
for
the
right
reasons.
V
I
just
don't
see
that
happening,
and
you
know
how
much
money
should
a
company
spend
on
audits
like
it's
very
common
for
a
company
to
do
three
audits:
I'm
still
there
to
be
a
smart
contract
bug
so
or
you
know
an
exploit
like
it's,
you
know
how
much
do
they?
How
much
should
they
spend
of
the
money
that
they
raise
or
that
they
generate
or
whatever
to
security?
If,
if
the
underlying
protocol
is
flawed,
so
I
would
love
to
speak
to
all
of
you,
but
you
were
basically
outlines
what
we've
created.
V
T
V
Yeah,
so
so
what
we
actually
do
is
again
it's
beyond
my
technical
understanding
that
that,
once
you
get
into
the
Super
technicals
of
this,
but
there
are
validations
that
happen
on
both
sides
that
need
to
be
that
needs
to
be
approved.
You
know
before
the
the
the
the
bridge
can
function
and
it's
not
just
trusting
an
oracle
or
a
smart
contract
that
can
be
duped.
It's
actually
root,
cryptographically
secured
so
I'm
saying
we've
built
the
solution,
I'm,
not
asking
necessarily
the
question
I'm.
V
V
So
the
more
people
that
bridge
to
it,
the
the
system
itself
is,
is
fully
interoperable,
but
any
other
bridges
that
so
say
you
know,
polygon
makes
a
bridge.
Then
whatever
Solana
makes
a
bridge,
then
Nia
makes
a
bridge.
Now
now,
if
you're
a
polygon,
you
can
now
bridge
to
those
blockchains
as
well
super
secure.
T
So
if
some
projects
they
announce
like
a
huge
Bounty,
but
then
they
are
not
paying
it
out
for
some
reasons,
then,
of
course
people
will
not
commit
any
more
to
this
program.
There
will
be
it's
it's
hard
to
attract
people
to
actually
participate
in
the
program,
but
yeah.
You
need
to
do
your
best
and
there's
also
a
question
that
you
need
to
try
to
ensure
some
fans
of
the
users
like,
for
example,
we
all
we
have
some
projects
on
Aurora
that
are
Insurance
used
in
France.
T
V
It
yeah
I
think
what
you
just
said
is
is
interesting
and
I
think
there's
some
validity
to
that.
But
ultimately
comes
back
to
my
last
point
about
big
Brands,
just
not
going
to
trust
the
technology
where
there's
those
kind
of
vulnerabilities
and
I
think
you
know,
we
need
to
look
for
better
Solutions
and
you
know,
as
I
said,
I'm
part
of
a
community
that
I
think
has
has
actually
solved
this
problem.
So
I'd
love
to
share
with
you
guys,
offline
or
as
I
said.
If
anyone
wants
to
speak
to
me,
I'm
around
all.
R
Right
awesome,
thank
you
for
that,
unfortunately,
we're
out
of
time,
but
if
you
have
questions
for
the
panelists,
you
know
where
to
find
them
all
right.
Well,
I
wanted
to
say
thank
you
again
for
this
amazing
conversation
and
obviously,
if
you
all
are
interested
in
bridges.
These
are
some
wonderful
people
to
speak
with.
So
thank
you
again
and
one
more
round
of
applause.
Q
Hey
thank
each
of
you
for
coming
up
and
discussing
what
is
certainly
one
of
the
most
Salient
topics
in
the
space
right
now.
Definitely
holding
us
back
a
little
bit
so
up
next,
we
have
Lindsey
Crawford
of
proximity
labs,
along
with
some
of
the
most
exciting
D5
projects.
Building
on
near
right
now
discussing
the
topic
of
building
a
defy
ecosystem
on
near.
H
G
H
H
F
X
Guys
this
is
David
I'm,
one
of
the
co-founders
of
stereo
protocol.
We
are
a
multi-chain
liquid
sticking
protocol.
We
build
liquid
sticking
Staples
Structured
Products
on
top
of
staking
across
six
blockchains
nearest,
the
latest
blockchain
that
we've
launched
on
and
we
have
about
120
million
dollars
in
dvl
today.
W
F
It's
a
good
question,
so
the
way
I
see
Defy
is
an
opportunity
for
everyone
to
control
their
finances
and
that's
a
very
high
level
and
easy
way
in
some
very
something
very
easy
to
say.
But
coming
back
to
your
question
in
terms
of
what
orderly
you're
doing
we're
trying
to
create
the
efficiency
and
the
structure
and
the
infrastructure,
specifically
for
other
projects
to
be
able
to
supply
ease
of
access
when
it
comes
to
defy
to
mass
Market
retail.
X
For
D5
I
mean
liquid
staking
is,
is
obviously
a
very
Capital
efficient
efficient,
enabling
move
on
a
ecosystem
like
on
near
where
about
45
of
of
the
near
is
Stig.
That's
a
lot
of
near
that
state
and
not
accessible
to
defy
so
with
Solutions
like
ours.
We
introduce
Capital
efficiency.
We
introduce
portion
of
that
45
percent
of
veneers
take
to
also
be
able
to
interact
with
other
D5
protocols,
and
that's
probably
the
singular
biggest
D5
volume
driver
and
and
I
see
us
as
the
enabler
for
that.
W
Well,
I
think
one
of
the
key
value
propositions
of
D5
is
basically
how
easily
do
you
have
access
to
the
solution
right
without
asking
any
permissions,
and
then
that's
the
first
thing
and
then
the
second
problem
to
solve
is
basically
how
do
you
provide
well
for
ref,
good
prices
right
but
I
think
for
orderly.
It's
also
the
same
problem
to
solve,
because
at
the
end
of
The,
Journey
you're,
basically
competing
with
you,
know,
binance
coinbase
for
prices,
so
I
think
the
first
problem
to
solve
is
yeah.
W
Y
So
it's
for
Europe
the
system.
It's
like
different
every
ecosystem
is
way
different,
nearest
good
for
defy,
mostly
because
it's
fast
it's
secure.
Usually
it
comes
to
user-friendly
experience
at
all
part
of
your
building.
Either
you
are
building
Builder
or
you
are
a
user
who
just
want
to
jump
in
defy
because,
like
the
files,
finance
and
decentralized,
no
single
point
of
failure,
fast
transaction
time,
scaling,
sharding
and
it's
still
small
town
with
family,
like
culture,
you
can
pin
people
who
are
doing
refinance,
leverage,
token
order
book,
you
want.
Y
You
have
everybody
in
the
same
place
and
it's
still
easier
to
access.
If
you
will
compare
to
other
ecosystem,
everybody
is
like
high
level
business
stuff.
So
here
is
really
friendly
or
is
a
really
fast
good.
Looking
nice
account
structure
easy
to
use,
you
can
have
Mobile
Wallet,
metamask
wallet,
Ledger
stuff,
whatever
stuff
you
want.
F
H
W
Well,
yeah,
that's
a
good
question.
I
I
think
Forest,
there's
really
three
pieces.
The
first
one
is
yeah,
basically
prices.
How
good
are
our
prices
then?
The
second
one
is
obviously
the
the
quality
of
the
infrastructure
right
and
to
attract
new
users.
We
need
to
incentivize
people,
to
you,
know,
try
the
products
and
potentially
create
a
network
effect,
so
I
think
liquidity
is
a
big.
W
You
know
elsewhere
within
the
ecosystem,
even
I,
guess
the
ecosystem
is
turning
to
a
new
point
at
the
moment,
with
less
incentive
right,
but
I
think
this
is
still
a
key
piece
of
the
ecosystem
and
then
how
easy
people
can
build
on
top
of
us
to
create
new
products
right
like
yield.
Farming
is
such
a
great
example.
What
Pembroke
is
doing
on
top
of
Finance,
for
example,
but
we
have
so
many
things
right
so
for
refinance
from
our
perspective.
W
It's
you
know
the
SDK
like
the
software
development
kit
and
how
good
it
is,
and
then
people
can
just
create
on
top
of
us
many
verticals
right.
So,
but
once
you
once
you
bring
like
new
users,
then
the
question
is:
how
do
you
retain
them?
How
do
you
avoid
you
know,
churn
and
I
think
this
is
also
like
a
good
question
right,
because
we
are
still
so
early
I'm
thinking
about
I
think
at
ref.
We
have
in
total
more
than
100
000
new,
unique
users
since
Inception.
W
Y
Yeah,
so,
while
we
onboard
new
users,
there
is
like
a
lot
of
types
of
what
you
call
new
users,
there's
the
users
inside
in
your
ecosystem,
which
just
never
interacted
with
our
product.
Without
with
our
protocol,
there
is
the
users
in
Webster
ecosystem,
which
never
interacted
either
with
near
or
our
protocol
answer
is
users
who
are
familiar
with
web
2
and
they
are
familiar
with
all
the
world
around
them,
but
never
encountered
crypto,
and
for
every
this
group
there
is
a
different
scenario
and
there
is
a
different
approach.
Y
While
we're
talking
about
people
in
web
2,
they're
familiar
with
financial
system,
everybody
use
loans,
everybody
use
deposits,
everybody
have
some
yields,
credit
score
ranking,
they
can
borrow
Capital.
They
are
familiar
with
trading
infrastructure.
A
lot
of
people
made
money
on
stock,
a
lot
of
people
familiar
with
Robin
Hood,
and
usually
you
try
to
show
them
that
crypto
is
it's
the
same,
but
decentralized,
more
secure,
more
transparent
with
everything
controlled
by
you.
This
is
the
main
idea
why
we
make
this
Finance
decentralized.
Y
We
do
want
to
remove
single
point
of
failure
and
we
want
to
make
everything
work
on
Smart
contract
player,
on
validators
layer,
on
the
layer
of
components
which
could
not
fail
and
you
can
use
them
with
without
any
with,
without
asking
permission,
without
asking
for
their
work
and
schedule
except
Solana.
Without
asking
like
do,
I
need
to
have
passport
nationality
credit
card.
Whatever
stuff,
you
need
to
have
access
to
your
whatever
seat
phrase.
Y
Ledger
anyway,
you
can
sign
transaction,
you
can
interact
with
near
protocol
and,
moreover,
you
do
not
need
to
waste
enormous
amount
of
time.
It's
really
fast.
It's
really
transparent
and
it's
really
user
understandable,
so
how
to
import
web
2
people
to
webstree,
usually
through
education
materials.
You
just
show
them
that
this
is
the
same,
but
better
you
want
to
have
a
loan.
You
go
to
a
bank,
you
provide
some
kind
of
collateral
and
you
get
additional
money.
You
want
to
have
a
loan.
Y
You
go
to
any
Landing
protocol,
provide
collateral,
borrow
something
against
this
is
part
of
Pembroke
mechanics.
You
can
provide
your
Bitcoin
as
collateral.
You
can
borrow
ethereum
Pembroke
usn
put
it
in
stake
in
in
farming.
Rewards
in
refinance.
Make
some
guilt.
Have
profit
return,
your
collateral,
you
can
do
the
same
with
orderly.
You
want
to
have
exposure
to
near,
but
you
a
little
bit
shy.
So
you
go
to
lending
protocol.
Put
I
know
you
want
Bitcoin
as
collateral.
You
want
Tesla
escalator
borrow
one
year.
Go
to
air,
orderly,
execute
your
strategy
based
on
it.
Y
You
can
I
know
long
short
wherever
you
want
to
do,
but
this
is
full
Financial
system
with
same
banks
with
same
collaterals
with
same
assets
with
same
Equity,
but
everything
what
going
on
controlled
by
you,
it's
regulated
in
a
good
way.
It's
do
not
have
enormous
limitation,
like
you
can
just
draw
no
more
than
100
bucks
from
ATM
machine
in
some
country.
You
need
to
go
to
bank
exactly
and
working
hours.
You
need
to
sign
an
almost
amount
of
papers,
like
your
whole
family.
Allow
you
to
do
this.
This
is
fast,
convenient,
transparent.
W
You
mean
if
we
picked
up.
Why
did
we
pick
up
near
correct?
So
actually
we
didn't
choose
because
Helia
the
well
the
founder
of
near
started,
ref
I,
guess,
because
trading
cryptos
is
potentially
the
second
primitive
after
the
blockchain
right.
So
you
can
send
receive
any
token
the
native
token,
but
then
the
second
use
case
is
usually
how
can
you
you
know,
swap
one
token
for
another,
so
Elia
created
ref
more
than
one
year
ago
to
create
I.
W
Guess
this
first
vertical,
so
we
inherited
ref
but
I-
guess
yeah,
the
near
from
a
user
perspective,
two
things
right,
it's
very
cheap
and
it's
very
fast
like
one
two,
two
second
finality,
so
the
user
experience
is
very
different
and
from
a
builder
perspective
I
would
say:
well.
The
community
is
really
amazing
and
because
I
guess
till
the
beginning,
there's
a
lot
of
communication
going
through
projects.
So
you
have
access
to
orderly.
You
have
access
to
Pembroke,
you
have
access
to.
H
W
I'm
not
sure
to
have
the
right
answer
to
that,
but
I
guess
it's
kind
of
a
philosophy
and
what
I
like
within
the
near
ecosystem
is
the
give
first
approach.
Someone
is
asking
for
something
someone
is
asking
for
your
help.
Give
first
and
then
we
will
see
you
know
what
happened
next,
but
I.
Guess
there
is
this
companionship,
which
is
very
yeah
which
I
really
like
within
the
ecosystem,
so
just
give
first,
when
someone
needs
help,
make
sure
you
can
provide.
H
F
So
for
us
near
feels
like
the
most
obvious
and
easy
fit.
Obviously,
orderly
is
incubated
by
Wu
network
from
the
expertise
on
the
trading
side,
and
then
we
get
the
expertise
from
Ilia
and
the
rest
of
the
the
near
team
in
terms
of
how
we
can
scale
a
central
limit
order
book
no
different
to
didier's
comment
in
terms
of
experience.
It's
fast,
it's
cheap,
it's
secure
and
it
scales
for
us.
F
Coming
back
to
your
original
question,
the
second
one
regarding
like
bringing
users
the
users
that
require
the
functionality
for
a
central
limit
order
book
can't
sit
there
and
wait
for
a
trade.
They
can't
wait
for
optimal
gas.
They
need
to
be
able
to
do
it.
In
micro,
a
milliseconds
nears
the
clear
obvious
choice
to
support
that
infrastructure,
but,
of
course,
allow
the
experience
for
those
users.
H
Y
Only
start
of
our
story,
because,
though,
but
for
it's
a
middle
part
between
fully
centralized
to
fully
decentralized,
because
right
now,
pembroke's
still
controlled
by
team.
Yes,
we
have
pretty
fresh
project,
we
fundraised
literally
this
February
March.
So
we
are
on
our
roadmap
and
we
are
building
something
and
to
build
everything
fast.
Yes,
smart
contracts
is
then
centralized
near
is
decentralized
ever
since
there,
but
there
is
still
Keys
who
can
upload
something
who
can
make
changes
to
contract.
Y
So
we
want
to
have
a
Dao
and
we
want
to
onboard
the
smartest
people
in
industry
or
the
smartest
people
who
are
willing
to
work
with
leverage
yield
farming,
and
we
want
them
to
make
proposal
suggestion
decision
and
we
want
them
to
communicate
because
right
now,
Pembroke
team
is
the
only
team
who
are
making
decision.
Do
we
want
to
have
usn
on
board
or
not?
Do
you
want
to
have
stable
pools
or
not?
Do
we
want
to
have
stake
at
liquids
taken?
We
want
to
have
exposure
to
other
currency.
Y
We
are
taking
this
decision
based
on
our
expertise,
but
our
expertise
is
not
the
final
amount.
It's
just
like
average
like
for
okay,
like
smart
people,
but
average
smart
people,
and
we
want
to
make
other
people
have
option
to
put
a
suggestion,
have
option
to
vote
something
have
ocean
to
veto
something,
and
there
is
like
it's
not
something
in
the
like
wherever
we
want
to
do
in
20
years,
it's
taking
decision
on
an
action-based
plan,
so
we
have
Community
rewards.
Y
We
have
reward
distribution
schedule,
we
have
down
synthesization
and
they
can
do
the
tutorial
right
now,
so
they
want
to
work
for
some
kind
of
marketing
initiatives.
They
want
to
develop
something
they
want
to
provide
a
grant
for
somebody
and
it
working.
So
it's
part
from
centralized
system
to
fully
decentralized
system
and
the
journey
goes
down.
X
Yeah
well,
I
think
Dao
means
different
things
for
different
people
and
different
protocols.
My
opinion
of
a
Dao
is
it's
a
place
to
be
heard
right.
It's
a
place
for
people
to
put
their
points
out.
Unfortunately,
I
think
that
was
across
other
blockchains.
In
particular,
they
aren't
where
they
need
to
be
they're
in
serving
the
purpose.
They
ought
to
one
of
the
things
that
we
have
done
at
stator,
although
we
do
not
have
an
official
doubt
for
it
is.
You
know
we
are
always
led
by
our
community.
X
F
The
beginning
piece
is
exactly
how
I
feel
like
you
have
community
members,
token
holders
core
contributors,
Dow
contributors,
they
all
fit
within
a
dow,
but
don't
necessarily
mean
the
same
thing,
and
it's
really
important,
especially
in
the
beginning,
exactly
as
their
Arch
management
is
listening
to
the
community,
but
also
not
letting
it
slow.
You
down,
I
think
it's
very,
very
easy
to
have
a
large
amount
of
potential
token
holders
or
interested
community
members
that
can
potentially
guide
you
away
or
create
noise.
F
Create
chaos
towards
your
soul
goal
I'm
a
very
fond
believer
of
progressive
governance,
especially
depending
on
the
protocols,
especially
within
defiant,
delegated
governance.
There
are
a
lot
more
smarter
people
out
there
that
can
make
better
decisions
for
the
protocol
than
me.
As
an
example,
I
would
love
to
delegate
my
voting
rights
in
the
hands
of
somebody
else
who
can
make
those
more
informed
decisions
and
I
think
we
love
the
idea
within
web
3
of
being
able
to
vote
being
really
really
small
or
really
really
big
and
having
that
opportunity
to
vote.
F
But
we
also
have
to
be
really
thoughtful
and
really
mindful
about
what
that
really
means,
especially
when
we're
talking
about
the
the
future
of
what
tvl
for
a
protocol
might
look
like.
Future
decisions,
future
listings,
future
direction
of
billion,
future
billion
dollar
companies
and
I
think
putting
control
in
the
hands
of
the
right
type
of
people
whilst
or
at
least
sorry,
given
the
opportunity
to
people
to
give
control
to
the
right
type
of
people
to
make
more
informed
decisions
is
what
I
see
as
Progressive
doubt.
H
Z
Y
Y
So
we
are
liking
users,
because
this
this
is
not
like
full
room
and
we
need
to
work
hard
about
our
like
marketing
materials
about
our
coverage,
because
as
technology
as
base
level
near
is
already
good,
there
is
a
lot
of
unrealized
potential
technology
is
awesome.
We
need
to
push
a
little
bit
harder
on
marketing.
We
need
to
push
a
little
bit
harder
about
knowledge,
because
I
I
cannot
compare
it
with,
like
literally
no
competitors,
Bitcoin,
slow,
ethereum,
expensive,
binance
machine
is
a
joke.
You
don't
like
you,
don't
go
with
your
friends.
Y
Validator
salana
is
you
know
it?
It
is
what
it
is.
Other
blockchain
like
Carolyn
already
that
so
near,
is
like
the
best
blockchain
to
do
something
fast.
Scalable
ordinarily,
is
the
only
blockchain
which
is
possible
it's
near
because
you
do
it.
You
cannot
run
order
book
with
small
transaction.
You
will
have
transactions
like
0.00
I
know
like
four
zeros
or
eight
zeros,
like
they
will
trade
Satoshi
to
move
satosha
ethereum.
You
need
to
pay
like
a
fortune.
Y
You
can
do
it
on
binance,
but
it's
not
like
it's
not
decentralized.
It's
not
secure.
You
can
call
your
friends
and
do
this
this,
and
this
so
near
is
a
great
technology
level.
I'm,
really
fascinated
by
idea
of
having
all
the
regional
hubs
to
integrate
with
all
this
stuff.
So
we
just
need
to
import
users.
We
are
liking.
This.
W
I
agree:
yeah,
I,
agree
with
ego
I
think
we
have
like
great
use
cases
new
use
cases
like
sweat.
You
know
lifestyle
world
to
learn.
We
have
also
a
great
infrastructure
for
institutions
for
analytics
right.
I
want
to
have
a
better
understanding
of
my
market.
What's
my
user
base,
how
much
in
average
my
user
are
spending
and
we
have
those
answers
and
I
think
that's
we
stand
out
too
on
on
on
the
data
and
analytics
side
and
yeah
I
think
we're
getting
better
at
solving
problems
right
so
refinance.
W
So
yeah
I
think
we're
getting
better
at
you
know
optimizing
liquidity,
but
there
is
one.
There
is
one
piece
that
we
cannot
control,
which
is
resilience
so
etherum.
They
have.
You
know.
Ethereum
was
created
10
years
ago
and
people
well.
This
thing
has
been
existing
for
10
years
near
has
been
existing
for
two
years
and
a
half.
So
how
resilient
are
we
and
I
think
this
depends
on
a
function
of
time,
so
we
just
need
also
to
to
be
a
bit
more
patient
to
demonstrate
that
near
is
a
resilient
ecosystem.
Yes,.
H
Q
Cool
thank
each
and
every
one
of
you
for
coming
up
here
and
shedding
some
light
on
what
you're
building,
as
well
as
sharing
your
thoughts
on
the
current
climate
of
building
defy
on
near
up.
Next
I
would
like
to
introduce
another
wonderful
human
being.
You
may
have
heard
of
him
who
will
be
discussing
the
topic
of
the
Road
to
Mass
adoption,
bridging
nfts
to
web
2
audiences
Eric,
Troutman.
AA
At
this
point,
we
we
have
four
years
left
to
go
and
we've
made
some
progress,
but
we
have
a
long
way
to
go.
So
what
I
want
to
talk
about
today?
We've
spent
a
lot
of
time
talking
about
technology,
which
makes
sense,
given
that
this
is
a
core
technology,
but
I
want
to
kind
of
pop
up
a
little
bit
and
think
a
little
bit
more
about
who
is
actually
going
to
be
using
this
technology
and
look
at
things
a
little
bit
more
from
the
user
perspective.
So
for
debate.
AA
We
don't
have
a
lot
of
time,
but
I
want
to
give
a
little
bit
of
a
high
level
overview
of
of
what
is
the
the
landscape
that
gets
us
to
Consumer
adoption.
What
are
the
components
that
we
need
to
produce
and
what
are
the
things
that
we
should
probably
be
innovating
in,
that
we
may
or
may
not
be
doing
right
now?
AA
So
the
first
thing
I
want
to
communicate
is
that
mass
adoption
is
a
growth
problem
which
I
think
is
pretty
obvious.
But
growth
growth
is
a
word
that
comes
up
a
lot
in
web
2,
but
we
don't
actually
talk
about
it.
A
whole
lot
in
web
3
in
quite
the
same
way.
So
as
I
mentioned,
we
had
a
goal,
but
what
this
takes
is
you
have
to
onboard
a
lot
of
users
and
it's
more
than
just
onboarding
users.
AA
You
actually
have
to
retain
users
as
well,
and
it's
really
easy
to
draw
an
exponential
chart
and
and
say:
oh
look.
What
Facebook
did
look,
what
Dropbox
did
and
we'll
do
it
too,
but
this
takes
a
lot
of
work.
There
are
a
lot
of
details
that
you
need
to
get
right
if
we
want
to
make
this
happen,
and
so
I
think.
My
key
point
is
that
macro
adoption
is
actually
a
series
of
micro
level
battles
and
those
micro
level
battles
occur
in
the
funnels,
and
so
everyone
is
seeing
the
user
funnel.
AA
Your
funnel
might
vary,
but
basically
the
point
of
the
funnel.
As
you
bring
a
user
through
your
product,
you
obviously
have
to
start
with
acquisition,
but
then
there's
an
onboarding
stage.
You
have
to
figure
out.
How
do
you
engage
the
users?
How
do
you
retain
the
users?
And
ultimately,
hopefully
you
can
get
a
referral
back
up
to
the
top,
so
they're
referring
their
friends
and
they're,
bringing
in
new
people.
AA
AA
Luckily,
web3
has
a
few
advantages
and
nfts
is
actually
one
of
the
one
of
the
coolest
web
3
Primitives,
and
it's
one
that
I,
don't
think
is
going
anywhere
because
in
a
lot
of
ways
it's
actually
kind
of
the
glue
that
holds
together
every
stage
of
the
funnel.
You
can
use
nfts
for
everything
from
acquiring
new
users
for
pfp
projects.
AA
Nfts
are
basically
you
know
the
kind
of
the
main
event
it's
what
people
go
out
of
their
way
to
capture,
but
in
a
lot
of
other
use
cases,
nfts
are
kind
of
sidecars
they're,
they're,
companion
packs
that
you
get
alongside
say,
purchasing
a
ticket
to
an
event,
but
the
cool
thing
about
an
nft
is
that
it?
The
reason
why
it's
useful
is:
it
provides
a
future
utility.
AA
And
so,
if
you
kind
of
look
at
every
stage
of
that
funnel
nfts
kind
of
show
up
at
each
of
those
stages
and
they're
useful
to
help
bring
the
users
through
that
funnel,
but
one
of
the
common
misconceptions
and
it's
one
that
we've
we've
gotten
into
a
lot
in
crypto-
is
that
acquisition
is
not
the
same
thing
as
growth
growth
is
sort
of
a
full
round
trip
cycle
acquisition
is
just
one
stage
of
the
funnel
we've
all
seen.
Ponzi
mechanics
it's
one
of
the
things.
AA
AA
They
all
believe
that
they're
gonna
they're
all
gonna
make
some
money
on
this,
but
in
the
end
of
the
day,
it's
actually
Sugar
High
growth,
because,
as
we've
seen
again
and
again
and
again,
you
get
these
exponential
curves
up
and
what
goes
up
comes
right
back
down
and
in
the
end,
it's
not
actually
sustainable
growth.
So,
in
a
lot
of
ways
it's
much
more
like
a
sugar
high
and
the
people
who
come
in
through
Ponzi
mechanics
generally
aren't
in
it.
AA
For
the
right
reasons,
you
don't
build
strong
communities
and
the
projects
aren't
creating
this
sustainable
growth.
Fundamentally,
growth
is
actually
a
product
problem
and
I
think
that's
that's.
Actually,
what
I'm
kind
of
excited
about
is
that
in
previous
iterations
in
previous
years,
we've
spoken
mostly
about
technology
and
it's
a
lot
of
fun
to
be
able
to
talk
about
product
more
and
more
and
and
so
a
much
more
sustainable.
AA
Look
at
growth
comes
at
its
core
from
having
good
products,
and
so
the
ideal,
the
ideal
product
is
actually
a
product
that
has
has
a
full
good
user
experience
through
and
through,
and
then
there's
and
then
there's
a
referral
loop
on
the
back
end
of
that.
It's
very
simple.
It's
a
very
simple
idea:
it's
extremely
hard
to
execute,
because
in
order
to
get
this
right,
you
have
to
you
have
to
get
a
user
to
come
in.
AA
You're
not
going
to
accomplish
this
and
there's
no
way
you're
going
to
get
a
true
viral
growth.
So,
in
a
lot
of
ways,
if
we
can
unlock
viral
growth,
that's
that's
almost
the
holy
grail
for
for
proving
that
we've
we're
actually
doing
something
right.
The
problem
is
that
onboarding
is
awful.
Onboarding
is,
is
the
Bugaboo
of
the
entire
blockchain
ecosystem?
AA
It's
definitely
the
weak
point
that
we
all
have.
Everyone
here
has
probably
had
the
experience
of
either
yourself
or
trying
to
walk
through
someone.
You
know
through
the
process
of
trying
to
use
a
new
application
and
it's
difficult.
It's
painful
people
don't
understand.
What's
going
on
in
the
end
of
the
day,
we
all
have
to
acknowledge,
of
course,
that
web
2
people
just
don't
have
time
or
patience
for
this,
there's
no
way
we're
going
to
get
to
mass
adoption.
AA
If
we,
if
we
make
them,
go
through
the
same
stuff
that
we
have,
but
the
good
side
is
on
the
on
the
bottom
end
of
the
funnel
blockchain
in
web
3.
It
has
a
lot
to
offer
on
that
retention
side.
That
has
a
lot
to
offer
for
long-term
engagement
and
that
gets
back
to
that
idea
of
nfts
as
being
sort
of
long-term
value
holding
utility
engines.
AA
Because-
and
it's
kind
of
that
you
get
back
to
like-
why
are
we
using
blockchain
at
all
and
part
of
that,
is
you?
Could
it
allows
you
to
build
these
permission?
Lists
value
Stacks,
where
other
people
can
create
value
for
your
users?
Just
because
they're
holding
your
nfts
I
mean
that's
really
cool,
but
we
have
to
get
people
to
that
point.
AA
So,
I
guess
what
I
want
to
run
through
quickly
here
is
is
like
what
what
does
it
take
like?
What
do
we
need
as
an
ecosystem
in
order
to
start
to
unlock
some
of
these
things,
and
so
I
think?
Basically,
you
need
incentives,
you
need
components
and
you
need
the
right
ux.
The
incentives
is
not
something
I'm
going
to
spend
a
lot
of
time
on,
because
that's
going
to
vary
depending
on
the
product.
So
really
in
a
lot
of
ways.
That's
an
entrepreneur's
problem.
AA
It's
figure
out
what
are
the
incentives
that
make
your
products
something
people
want,
but
components.
The
components
that
we
need
are
essentially
like
the
shared
infrastructure
that
allows
us
to
even
build
experiences
that
people
can
use,
and
that's
that's
basically
about
unlocking
Builders,
so
that
they
can
actually
create
good
experiences
and
then
ux
is
about
unlocking
the
growth
so
that
users
can
actually
use
those
experiences,
which
is
a
little
bit
different.
It's
subtly
different,
so
to
start
with
components.
AA
I
mean
this
is
maybe
10
years
ago
and
then
so
from
my
perspective,
like
that's,
where
we
need
to
be,
if
we're
going
to
be
successful,
competing
with
web
2
and
then
sort
of
building
alongside
web
too,
to
get
where
we
want
to
go
so
there's
no
way.
You
can
read
this
slide,
but
but
the
point
is:
is
sort
of
laying
out
all
the
little
pieces,
all
the
little
components
along
the
way,
and
this
will
be
available.
Online
I'll
I'll
be
putting
this
up
on
Twitter
and
in
a
blog
post.
AA
But
if
you
look
kind
of
from
the
top
left
to
the
bottom
right,
it's
basically
that,
as
a
user
travels
through
through
an
application,
they
end
up
touching
a
whole
bunch
of
these
different
components.
So,
on
the
top
left,
you're
going
to
see
things
like
nft
minting
and
claiming
and
distribution,
and
then
they
get
the
user
comes
in
and
they
onboard,
and
then
we
need
to
figure
out.
How
do
we
create
them
accounts?
Are
we
creating
a
semi-custodial
accounts?
AA
So
like
if
you're
a
pfp
project,
you
need
to
make
sure
that
you
get
nfts
in
the
hands
of
your
users.
So
that
means
they
need
to
either
buy
those
nfts
on
a
primary
Market.
They
need
to
buy
them
on
a
secondary
Marketplace.
You
need
to
get
them
in
your
account.
Somehow
you
need
to
get
you
need
to
make
sure
that
they
have
access
gating
for
some
sort
of
community
and
then
on
the
back
end.
Maybe
that
Community
is
run
by
a
dow.
AA
Maybe
it's
not
same
thing
fan
loyalty,
it's
a
very
different
type
of
use
case.
It's
more
of
a
web
2
crossover
use
case
because
obviously
this
already
exists
in
web
2.
And
but
you
have
kind
of
the
same
principles
you
want
to
get
nfts
minted
alongside
something
that
the
the
fans
may
or
may
not
already
have
you
want
to
make
sure
that
they
can
claim
those
nfts?
These
are
more
web
2
people
so
ideally
you're
creating
them
some
sort
of
semi-custodial
in
your
account
and
then
down
in
the
bottom.
AA
So
if
you
look
at
like
there's
an
application
on
near
that,
that
is
building
essentially
for
the
the
movie
industry
sort
of
a
crowdfunding
platform
where
people
can
can
buy
in
they
get
access
to
a
dow.
It's
an
nft
that
unlocks
access
to
a
dow
which
gives
them
access
to
Creator
rights
over
time
and
and
like
this
this.
This
takes
everything
like
that.
Application,
like
literally
needs
every
single
piece
of
the
stack
in
order
to
be
successful.
AA
The
problem
is,
we,
don't
have
all
of
these,
and
so
Builders
across
the
ecosystem.
Right
now
are
basically
Reinventing,
the
wheel
left
and
right.
So
so
it
did
kind
of
a
a
color-coded
heat
map
of
of
all
the
different
pieces
of
this
and
kind
of
where
we
are
and
some
of
them
we
have
the
nft
minting
and
and
claiming
that's
something
that
we
do
at
Satori.
But
as
you
go
down
in
the
back
end
there
we
have
a
lot
of
missing
holes.
AA
There
are
a
lot
of
things
where
some
teams
have
created
useful
tools,
but
maybe
they
don't
have
good
ux.
Maybe
they
don't
have
documentation.
Maybe
they
have
an
open
sourced
it
and
then
way
down
at
the
bottom.
There
are
some
things
that
we
just
don't
even
have
in
terms
of
like
ways,
ways
to
contact
people
who
have
nfts
actually
just
just
two
days
ago.
AA
I
think
Eugene
and
Vadim
put
out
a
messaging
protocol
prototype
for
for
contacting
nfts
nft
holders,
but
fundamentally
it's
still
an
extremely
difficult
problem
to
solve,
but
or
rather
it's
a
problem
that
that
hasn't
been
solved
yet
and
I.
Think
one
of
my
core
one
of
my
core
messages
here
is
that
a
lot
of
this
isn't
necessarily
blocked
by
the
technology.
It's
just
blocked
by.
AA
We
need
people
to
build
it,
and
each
of
these
each
of
these
squares
effectively
is
a
business,
and
you
know
sometimes
it's
it's
better
as
a
library,
sometimes
it's
an
SDK.
Sometimes
it's
it's
supported
by
a
SAS
style
business
and
maybe
all
the
way
at
the
top
there's
a
no
code
tool
I
mean
maybe
maybe
there's
a
no
code
tool
that
actually
pulls
together
a
whole
bunch
of
these
components
but
effectively
like
we're
missing
big
pieces
of
that.
But
another
thing
that's
that's
worth
highlighting
is
that
not
everything
is
about
building
components.
AA
We
also
need
to
fix
our
ux
and
ux
is,
is
not
something
that
requires
deep
development
or
deep.
Research
is
something
that
oftentimes
just
requires
us
to
think
differently
and
I
guess
step
out
of
ourselves
from
a
web
3
context.
So
if
you
look
at
onboarding
someone
going
back
to
that
problem
of
what
does
it
feel
like
to
onboard
your
friend,
the
the
typical
way
of
doing
this
right
now
and
I'm
very
grateful
for
all
the
wallets
that
are
built
across
the
ecosystem.
But
my
hope
is
I.
AA
AA
We're
moving
into
a
world
where
things
are
more
semi-custodial,
which
is,
which
is
a
much
much
better
Improvement,
which
is
essentially
the
application
essentially
builds
a
wallet
for
the
user
without
them
really
knowing
on
the
on
on
their
behalf
and
there's
some
sort
of
shared
key
ownership,
and
then
they
can
hand
off
that
wallet
to
the
users.
After
after
the
user
is
finally
ready
to
receive
it,
it's
a
much
better
experience,
but
it
still
doesn't
solve
the
the
core
problem.
If
you
think
about
what
does
a
user
actually
want
user?
AA
Doesn't
care
about
wallets,
as
as
we
know
they
don't
care
about
anything
web
2
web
3
related?
They
just
want
whatever
it
is
the
value
that
you're
trying
to
give
to
them,
and
so
I
think
what
we
need
to
think
about
is
like
the
wallet
is
effectively
a
paywall.
It's
the
same
amount
of
pain
and
suffering
as
you
go
through
in
a
web,
2
app
when
you
hit
the
paywall,
and
so
if
we
start
to
embed
that
thinking,
then
it
starts
to
be.
Oh
man
like
how
do
we?
AA
AA
This
is
sort
of
the
old
man
behind
the
curtain
approach,
which
is
that
that
even
Beyond
custody
creating
accounts
on
behalf
of
users
and
things
like
that
like
what,
if
we
didn't
even
give
them
the
nft
in
the
first
place,
what
if
we
didn't
even
create
an
account
for
them
in
the
first
place?
What
if
we
faked
the
entire
experience
until
the
very
last
possible
moment
and
and
obviously,
and
the
pushback
on
that
is
like
well
hold
on?
Why
are
we
even
having
a
blockchain
If?
AA
All
we're
going
to
do
is
just
fake,
fake,
the
entire
experience
and
and
put
it
in
a
web
2
database,
and
you
obviously
have
to
deal
with
some
security
implications.
But
this
comes
back
to
that
whole
idea,
which
is
like.
If
we
fundamentally
believe
that
a
blockchain
is
actually
creating
value
long
term,
it
is
in
fact
valuable
for
users
long
term
to
hold
these
nfts.
AA
We've
I
have
seen
a
lot
of
experiments
where,
where
only
web
2
users
have
been
targeted,
they've
never
been
communicated
every
anything
to
do
with
web
free
except
the
word
nft,
and
it
was
actually
very
successful.
A
lot
of
users
join
this
a
lot
of
users
shared
a
lot
of
users
got
involved
and
there
were
no
wallets
at
all.
So
so
clearly,
there
are
things
here
that
users
want
and
clearly
they're
being
blocked.
AA
AA
AA
We
do
I,
just
think,
there's
a
lot
of
work
that
we
can
do
on
the
ux
side
before
that
point,
and
so
just
a
quick,
quick
note
about
Satori
I
mentioned
it.
It's
so
satori's
mission
is
actually
very
simple,
similar
to
the
near
Mission,
which
is
why
we've
we've
actually
run
into
so
many
of
these
problems,
because
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
to
bring
in
the
next
billion
people
and
to
help
grow
and
engage
audiences.
AA
So
we
tend
to
exist
up
on
the
on
the
marketing
end
of
that
of
that
funnel.
But
when
we
talk
to
when
we
talk
to
potential
applications
who
might
Implement
our
API
oftentimes
they're
they're,
one
of
two
things
happen
like
either
they
say
hold
on
like
why.
Why
should
I
use
an
like?
Yes,
I,
want
to
use
an
nft
but
like
how
do
I
do
that
like
how
do
I
make
this
valuable
to
users
or
on
the
other
side
they
say?
AA
AA
So
so,
in
terms
of
specific
calls
to
action,
I
mentioned
incentives
is
really
kind
of
the
entrepreneur's
problem,
but
for
the
components
again,
each
of
the
components
I
highlighted
are
basically
individual
businesses.
So
you
you
can
move
this
from
a
hackathon
project
that
that
creates
an
open
source
library
to
you
know,
probably
in
in
a
month
you
can,
you
can
get
a
micro
Grant
turn
that
into
a
a
small
SDK,
get
a
round
of
funding,
and
suddenly
you
have
yourself.
AA
AA
So
once
we
unblock
all
of
this,
once
we
unblock
the
builders
to
make
things
faster.
Once
we
unblock
onboarding
to
make
users
go
through
smoother,
then
I
think
we
can
actually
unlock
the
growth
that
we're
all
here
and
all
excited
to
take
part
in
and
maybe
in
the
next
four
years,
we
will
in
fact
be
able
to
get
to
a
billion
users
thanks.
Q
Awesome
speech
Eric
and
by
the
way,
make
sure
while
you're
here
you
check
out
proof
of
memories,
which
is
satori's
new
nft
concept
debuted
here
at
nearcon,
we're
now
going
to
break
for
15
minutes,
make
sure
you
check
out
the
ecosystem
Partners.
If
you
haven't
already
grab
some
awesome
food
and
we'll
see
you
back
here
in
15
minutes.
AB
R
All
right
well,
I
mean
I'm,
also
a
huge
fan
of
gaming.
I
think
you
know,
especially
as
we're
thinking
about
Mass
adoption.
I
think
gaming
is
a
easy
win.
You
know
it's
an
easy
win,
it's
an
easy
way
of
kind
of
you
know
providing
a
Gateway
for
the
next.
You
know
like
batch
of
users,
and
so
I'm
really
excited
to
be
moderating.
This
talk
today
and
so
I'd
like
to
bring
up
to
the
stage
let's
so
we
have
Sasha
from
Human,
Guild
and
Hugo
from
play:
Ember,
okay,
all
right
round
of
applause.
R
All
right,
so
you
know,
as
I
was
alluding
I
think
there
is
such
a
huge
opportunity
with
gaming
in
the
web.
3
space
I
think
we're
still
really
early.
I
mean
I.
Think
that
phrase
is
used
across
the
board
right
yeah
and
we
are
very
early
but
I
think
with
gaming,
it's
even
more
so
right.
It's
such
a
complicated
and
kind
of
involved
process
of
building
a
game,
and
so
you
know
I
guess
I
wanted
to
kind
of
open
it
up
by
asking
you
both.
R
AC
So
for
us
at
the
moment,
web3
game
development
is
a
is
a
lot
more
difficult
than
usual
mobile
game
development.
You
kind
of
don't
need
to
deal
with
any
interoperability
or
game
tokenomics,
and
so
actually
it's
quite
easy
to
ship,
a
mobile
game
and
we've
kind
of
or
for
the
last
nine
months,
we've
kind
of
worked
on
the
the
web
3
side,
which
has
been
a
real
learning
curve
and
I.
AD
Yeah
I
agree
that
it's
very
challenging
to
build
blockchain
game.
It
comes
with
trade-offs.
It
takes
a
particular
mindset
for
people
to
embark
on
something
like
this
I
think
building
games
in
web
2
space,
a
lot
of
things,
I
figured
out,
be
it
for
PC
or
web
or
steam
or
mobile,
but
also
the
downside
of
building
in
web
2
Gaming
is
extremely
competitive.
AD
AD
You're
gonna
need
to
build
a
fun
game,
still
that's
the
most
important
thing,
but
you
also
need
to
create
open
economy,
but
you
also
need
to
make
sure
those
two
things
balance
economic
game,
not
gonna,
become
the
main
game.
It's
still,
the
focus
is
in
the
game.
You
need
to
deal
with
legal.
You
need
to
figure
out
how
to
go
to
market
which
is
incrementally
and
with
the
community
which
is
different
from
web
to
space.
It's
a
collab
to
figure
out.
No
best
practices
established
for
none
of
this
things,
but
another
another
hand.
AD
It's
also
not
competitive,
meaning
that
if
you
launch
something
of
value
likely
you'll
see
a
lot
of
people
that
care
on
day
one
and
because
we
have
a
near
ecosystem.
We
have
a
lot
of
near
wallets
like
eagerly
waiting
for
applications
to
launch
generally,
but
also
games
to
launch
people
like
really
waiting
for
launches
yeah.
R
AC
We
have
about
eight
million
monthly,
active
users
across
Apple
and
Google
play
and
we've
kind
of
worked
with
Publishers
in
the
mobile
game
space
and
our
our
games.
Are
you
categorize
them
like
hyper
casual
to
hybrid
casual,
probably
so,
games
with
really
low
CPI
cost
per
install,
but
they
scale
quite
easily.
So
we
kind
of
get
big
numbers
and
that's
what
we
want
to
bring
to
near.
AC
We
want
to
take
those
web
2
players
and
we've
kind
of
built,
a
an
infrastructure,
a
Unity
SDK,
which
is
what
most
mobile
games
are
built
on
and
basically
a
an
add-on.
So
you
add
into
the
game
it
takes
about
an
hour,
so
reduces
a
lot
of
the
complexities
that
I
kind
of
went
through
earlier
and
let's
game
studios
just
concentrate
on
making
games
yeah
so
that
that's
where
we
hope
to
kind
of
Mass
on
board
a
lot
of
people
to
near
amazing.
AD
My
path
to
to
Nero
was
through
France,
so
I
actually
started
working
in
Nero
on
almost
the
day.
One
of
near
existence
in
August
of
2018
I,
used
to
work
in
a
database
company
was
one
of
the
co-founders
of
near
one
thing
led
to
another
joined
it
very
early,
mainly
in
the
beginning.
I
was
talking
to
the
market,
so
we
had
mostly
developers
building
the
blockchain
it
took
in
2019
alone.
We
rebuilt
blockchain
three
times,
and
we
only
have
had
two
people
on
a
business
side.
Eric
and
myself.
AD
I
was
focusing
to
talk
into
the
market
that
helped
quite
a
bit
near
refocused
on
usability
away
from
just
scalability,
through
feedback
from
blockchain
gaming,
Studios,
actually
and
then
fast
forward
to
today.
So
I
started
human
guilt.
Last
year,
it's
one
of
the
spin-offs
from
New
York
System.
A
lot
of
people
generally
speaking
from
early
near
team,
broke
into
small
kind
of
like
startups
or
different
pieces
of
deca
system
last
year
were
the
first
ones.
AD
So
we
roughly
in
summer
time
of
last
year,
we
started
focusing
more
and
more
on
gaming,
so
we
were
more
generally
focusing
on
non-d5
applications.
So
near
all
kinds
of
Creator
economy
applications,
but
we
saw
organic
interest
in
gaming
on
your
ecosystem
last
year
in
Paris
in
one
of
the
nft
marketplaces
so
near
we
saw
last
summer,
roughly
12
or
so.
Creators
who
didn't
have
game
development
skills,
but
they
really
wanted
to
build
something
like
a
game.
They
were
building
like
very
simple
card
games
essentially,
and
we
wanted
to
double
click
on
that.
AD
We
thought
that
there
is
something
there
there's
organic
interest
in
this.
We
went
to
game
gems.
Game
jumps
are
kind
of
like
something
similar
to
hackathons,
but
people
build
games
instead
of
innocent
and
so
through
working
in
game
jams.
We
attracted
a
lot
of
independent
game
developers
to
New
York
a
system.
AD
AD
R
So
I
mean
you
both
have
kind
of
alluded
to
like
the
platforms
that
games
are
built
on
and
obviously
mobile
is
very
hot
in
what
three
right
now,
but
obviously
gaming
on
mobile
is
a
very
different
experience
than
you
know.
Maybe
using
like
you
know,
like
checking
your
portfolio
on
mobile
versus
desktop
right,
like
I,
feel,
like
the
entire
kind
of
the
way
you
interact
with
the
game
is
different,
but
I
guess
my
question
to
you
both
would
be.
Do
you
think
that
mobile
is
key
for
gaming
and
I?
R
Guess
thinking
about
kind
of
what
you
were
mentioning
Sasha
like
the
kind
of
experience
between
mobile
PC
and
web,
both
from
a
developer
and
users
perspective?
What
would
you
say
is
kind
of
like
something
that
maybe
we
should
even
prioritize
like?
What
do
you
think
is
a
maybe
like
low
hanging
fruit
that
we
can
kind
of
tackle?
First
yeah.
AD
I
would
say:
mobile
is
very
important
channel
for
for
game
developers
to
consider
a
year
ago.
Majority
of
people
were
too
afraid
to
try
mobile.
They
were
building
things
for
web.
It's
still,
it's
still
a
lot
of
uncertainty
in
terms
of
how
to
deal
with
Google
how
to
deal
with
Apple,
like
crypto
industry
will
have
to
kind
of
together,
collectively
figure
it
out,
together
with
those
to
two
entities
that
control
majority
of
the
mobile
distribution,
but
I
think
mobile
is
where
a
lot
of
gamers
are.
Obviously
it's
not
just
mobile.
AC
Think
it's
a
question
of
the
end
user
as
well,
so
I
think
kind
of
crypto
or
really
hardcore
gamers,
probably
look
at
mobile
games
as
they're,
not
really
games,
so
they
would
be
more
open
to
to
kind
of
web3
desktop
and
I.
Think
that's
probably
where
you'll
have
longer
session
times
and
everything
like
that.
R
Awesome
I
guess
you
know,
as
we're
kind
of
talking
about
you,
know
the
users
and
kind
of
onboarding
this
next
batch
right
of
Gamers.
Where
do
you
think
these
users
are
are
going
to
come
from
like?
Where
do
you
think
these
gamers
are
gonna
come
from?
Do
you
think
web2
natives
are
gonna
move
over
or
do
you
think
they're
web3
folks
who
are
just
going
to
get
into
gaming
like
I'd
love,
to
hear
both
of
your
thoughts.
AD
I
I
agree:
it
will
be
a
little
bit
of
both
I
think
when
it
comes
to
web
3
gaming.
It's
still
extremely
early,
the
biggest
blockchain
games.
Today
they
have
like
200
000
wallets,
which
is
active
Wallets
on
a
monthly
basis,
I
think
which
is
good.
But
it's
still
like
looking
at
the
traditional
gaming,
it's
in
millions,
hundreds
of
millions,
some
some
games
even
probably
have
more
than
that
so
I
think
I
think
we
cannot
rely
on
web3,
Gamers
alone,
just
because
how
small
the
market
it
is.
AD
It's
also
fragmented
it's
kind
of
split
across
different
chains
and
we
don't
have
like
really
good
abstraction
layer
yet
or
interoperability
existence,
so
I
think
it's
a
little
bit
of
both
but
I
agree
with
Hugo
as
well.
It's
really
good
idea
to
think
about
nft
communities,
for
example,
who
are
looking
for
providing
utility
for
for
their
communities
and
building
games
or
virtual
worlds,
for
those
is
a
really
good
natural
step
and
then
another
side,
web
2,
Gaming
Studios
coming
into
website.
R
R
AC
I'd
say
probably
just
get
started
kind
of
get
stuck
in
because
it's
in
web
3
more
than
any
any
other
thing
I've
done
kind
of
over
my
career.
It
changes
like
weekly,
so
I
think
you
just
need
to
get
started
kind
of
get
get
your
head
down
and
probably
not
be
too
precious
to
kind
of,
even
though
you've
done
something,
and
it's
really
cool
for
the
last
month
or
two
months.
AC
AD
Yeah
I
think
important
pieces
are
in
terms
of
where
to
get
started,
so
one
is
figuring
out.
Funding
is
extremely
challenging,
like
navigating
fundraising
in
gaming
is
challenging
to
begin
with,
but
in
the
current
market
conditions
is
is
hard
so
that
that
piece
is
like
needs
to
be
at
some
point
figured
out,
because
gaming
is
very
Capital
intensive
I'm,
not
saying
like
there
are
like
perfect
answers
for
this,
but,
like
figuring
out,
what's
your
funding
pass
for
like
multiple
years
is
important.
AD
AD
It
was
similar
to
how
near
itself
was
built
in
the
beginning
in
a
very
collaborative
approach,
so
there
is
like
whiteboard
series
that
near
did
on
YouTube
by
talking
to
a
lot
of
other
layer,
ones
and
layer
twos,
and
there
was
a
lot
of
ideas
and
cross
collaboration
born
out
of
it.
For
example,
near
borrowed
some
ideas
from
polkadot
ethereum
2
borrowed
some
ideas
from
from
near
back
then,
and
so
similar
approach
we're
trying
to
cultivate
with
Founders.
R
AC
AD
R
AB
R
AB
AE
Hi
friends
we're
here
to
talk
about
interoperability,
excellent,
more
specifically
in
the
context
of
polka
dot
and
near
I'm,
Ashley
Tyson
I'm,
with
hypersphere
I'm,
a
co-founder
of
web3
foundation,
so
I
helped
launch
polka
dot
and
then
I
worked
with
near
Foundation
to
help
launch
near
and
now
I
run.
A
VC
fund
called
hypersphere
we've
invested
in
axlr,
and
this
is
Jason
from
axillar
and
Sheldon
from
octopus
Network
and
we're
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
keeping
your
friends
near.
AE
AF
Absolutely
so
I'm
Jason
I,
lead
BDT
here
at
auxiler.
You
know
actually
on
a
very
high
level,
is
a
blockchain
that
connects
other
blockchains
actually
differentiates
itself.
Is
that
we're
more
than
a
bridge
we're
able
to
move
any
payload
call
Smart
contracts
or
trust
any
chains?
And
because
of
that,
we
believe
we
enable
A,
Whole
New
World
of
possibility.
You
can
build
now
true
Crossing
applications
like
Crossing
swaps,
cross-chain
lending
on
top
of
axler's,
decentralized
and
permissionless
infrastructure,
cool.
C
So
octopus
network
is
kind
of
like
a
hybrid
layer,
zero.
It's
a
bit
of
an
unusual
play
to
say:
hey,
we
like
the
relay
chain.
We
like
that
secondary
execution
environment,
but
also
liquidity
as
necessary.
That's
how
I
usually
compare
polka
dot
Cosmos
we're
fusing
that
Solution
on
near
to
use
near
as
a
single
execution
environment
for
substrate
chains,
same
format
as
polka
dot,
but,
of
course
they
need
more
than
that
they
need
features.
AE
Okay,
so
we
should
talk
about
those
bridges
in
just
a
minute,
because
when
I
was
told
that
we
were
talking
about
Building
Bridges
between
me
and
polka,
dot
I
was
just
like.
Do
we
have
did
I
miss
the
bridge
like
between
polka
dot
and
near
so
there
aren't
any
that
currently
exist.
I
guess
maybe
we're
talking
figurative,
Bridge
Building
at
this
moment
in
time,
so
maybe
share
a
little
bit
more
about
kind
of
like
what
that
interoperability
looks
like
from
the
octopus
perspective,
sure.
C
I
mean
we've
talked
to
axlr
and
composable
and
a
bunch
of
other
organizations
who
have
like
similar
missions,
and
we
think
what
they're
doing
is
incredibly
important.
The
way
that
axelr
does
this
is
also
important.
The
Proposal
from
a
composable,
that's
on
near
governance,
Forum
I,
was
so
glad
to
see
ilya's
response
from
that,
because
that's
taking
on
the
encryption
types
that
we
need
to
make
it
easier
to
communicate
between
the
two
environments
right,
but
the
the
the
side
of
it
that
is
basically
us
paying
homage
to
polka
dot.
C
Is
that
the
substrate
change
that
we
help
launch?
They
are
specifically
positioned
to
be
able
to
move
on
to
polka
dot.
It's
not
that
they
actually
Bridge
there.
It's
that
they
are
their
own
independent
entities,
we're
not
asking
them
to
be
the
glue
between
near
and
polka
dot,
we're
asking
them
to
enjoy
the
benefits
of
near
and
if
they
can
grow
up
as
substrate
chains
mature
to
the
level
that
polka
dot
needs.
You
know
you
have
to
be
a
mature
entity
before
you
go
for
that.
Parachain
auction
slot.
AE
C
We
call
it
the
bottom
of
the
substrate
Market.
The
top
of
the
substrate
Market
is
definitely
polka
dot.
The
best
products
go
there.
We
we
understand
that
the
most
mature
complete,
you
know,
feature
sweet
things.
They
go
to
polka
dot,
and
that
makes
sense,
but
they
need
a
place
to
start
and
the
mentality
before
octopus
Network.
Those
chains
had
to
start
with
really
long
test.
Nets
the
example
I
usually
give
is
math,
I
love,
math
wallet.
C
AF
Absolutely
you
know
I
think
before
we
go
into
the
specifics
of
how
that
actually
works
from
an
actual
perspective,
I
would
just
say
from
axler's
point
of
view.
The
future
is
going
to
be
all
completely
interconnected
right
and
you
know,
as
a
user,
you
won't
really
care
whether
this
application
is
on
polka
dot
or
on
octopus
or
anywhere
else.
You
just
have
a
direct
relationship
with
the
application.
You'll
have
a
very
simple
user
experience,
you
click
one
or
two
button
and
it
just
works
right
and
how
axler
is
doing
to
enable
that
is.
AF
We
are
a
blockchain
that
connects
to
these
other
blockchains
ecosystems
in
a
many-to-many
connectivity.
So,
specifically
with
how
we're
connecting
polka
dot
to
near
is
right.
Now
we
have
a
direct
integration
to
Moonbeam
on
the
axler
network.
What
that
means
is
we're
able
to
pass
messages,
call
Smart
contracts
from
any
of
the
other
23
chains,
we're
connected
to
which
also
includes
Cosmo
IBC
chain,
two
Moonbeam
and
then
Moonbeam
via
xcm
is
able
to
communicate
to
the
other
para
chains.
So
today,
how
we're
able
to
work
with
some
of
the
bigger
paratrade
like
engine?
AF
Is
they
first
pass
a
message
via
xcm
to
Moonbeam
and
then
Viva
axillary
pass
message
to
other
evm
and
Cosmos
chains
and
that's
part
of
moonbeam's
overall
cross-chain
strategy
as
well.
But
you
know,
what's
really
exciting,
for
us
is
now
we're
going
to
have
an
alternative
for
these
polkadot
ecosystem
projects
to
directly
connect
with
near
and
that's
because
centrifuge,
a
very
prominent
project
in
polkadot
has
offered
to
help
push
the
push
it
forward
in
the
ecosystem
and
build
a
pallet
for
this
for
an
actual
palette
in
the
substrate
system.
AF
So
within
the
next
few
months,
when
this
palette
is
complete,
any
substrate
based
chains
will
be
able
to
integrate
this
palette
and
have
a
direct
connectivity
from
the
parachain
right
into
axillary.
And
then
you
can
think
of
axler.
As
this
Hub
in
the
middle
right
once
you're
able
to
pass
messages
to
axler.
We
can
then
pass
that
message
to
Aurora
and
through
Aurora's.
New
two-way
contract
calls
directly
move
it
to
near.
C
And
I
do
think
that
sounds
excellent.
We've
talked
to
the
XLR
team
a
number
of
times,
and
we
do
appreciate
the
design
the
octopus
model
is
to
not
exist
in
the
middle.
It
doesn't
mean
that
it's
wrong
that
XLR
does
that
XLR.
Does
that
in
an
incredibly
fair
and
reasonable
way?
Our
model
is
just
that
trustless
Bridges
should
be
priority,
which
means
we're
asking
people
to
focus
more
on
Direct
connections
without
a
third
party.
It
doesn't
mean
that
XLR
is
a
bad
word
being
that
third
party,
you
guys,
are
doing
a
great
job.
AF
Course
I
would
say
Sheldon
like
totally
hear
you,
and
but
you
know
you
look
at
the
bridging
space
today
right.
We
think
the
far
bigger
problems
that
most
bridges
and
intrawability
solutions
today
are
very
centralized.
They're,
almost
like
a
centralized
exchange.
Experience
ran
by
multi-cigs
versus
axillary
is
the
only
one.
That's
truly
fully
decentralized
and
we've
recently
launched
quadratic
voting,
which
actually
further
decentralized
the
network
even
more
so
that
we
actually
spread
out
the
voting
power
a
little
bit
more
fairly.
C
Sure
so,
at
the
moment
near
is
the
only
execution
environment.
That's
adjacent
that
IBC
solution
that
we're
developing
we've
proven
it
out.
It
can
work.
It
is
not
used
in
production,
yet
we
haven't
made
it
easy.
The
validation
is
not
complete.
Yet
that
means
that
in
prod
today,
that
is
genuinely
the
way
that
those
chains
interact
is
by
using
near
as
the
simultaneous
environment
but
IBC
from
Cosmos
as
the
lightweight
alternative
to
incorporating
a
third
party,
because
even
if
you
you
don't
mind
the
the
trust
involved,
a
third
party
needs
to
be
paid.
C
You
know
there
needs
to
be
someone
footing
the
bill
right.
So
when
there
isn't
a
third
party
to
pay
for
that,
those
two
smaller
organizations
or
younger
chains,
they
have
a
much
lower
threshold
to
figure
out
how
they
can
interact.
You
know
when
they
have
an
interaction
and
they're
looking
at
like
a
margin
of
cost
from
another
piece
of
infrastructure,
it
makes
sense
that
it
would
be
harder
to
rise
above
that
cost
when
it's
direct
between
chains,
you're
just
paying
gas
on
both
sides.
AE
Think,
like
my
my
perspective
and
I,
think
all
of
our
perspectives
on
stage
is
that,
like
it's,
not
interoperability,
just
between
kind
of
like
one
ecosystem,
it
has
to
cross
ecosystems
and
right
now
like
we're
having
you
know,
we've
we've
all
seen
some
exploits
that
have
been
notable
in
the
past
couple
of
months,
so
The
Nomad
exploit,
which
I
think
heavily
affected
the
polka
dot
ecosystem
I
think
we're
in
a
good,
stable
place
there,
but
they're
not
without
their.
You
know
real
risks.
AE
AF
AF
I
think
there
is
no
design,
that's
perfectly
secure,
so
we
always
have
to
plan
for
the
worst,
and
you
know
at
axler,
as
I
mentioned
earlier
from
a
pure
design
perspective
right,
our
team
has
spent
over
the
last
two
years,
building
out
a
decentralized
interoperative
solution
where
one
of
the
only
ones
that's
a
blockchain
that
are
able
to
connect
other
blockchains
and
the
reason
why
we
built
it
like
that
is
because
proof
of
stake
blockchains
have
been
around
for
a
long
time.
Their
security
assumptions
are
well
documented.
AF
We
know
how
how
it
works,
it's
how
it
doesn't
work
and
that's
why
we
think
it's
been
battle
tested
and
at
the
same
time,
when
we
look
at
the
safety
measures
accidents
put
in
place,
we
have
something
called
rate
limits
that
caps
amount
of
asset
transfer
within
a
time
interval.
So
if
axler
were
to
be
exploited,
you
could
add
essentially
a
stop
loss
on
the
application
Level
of
what
the
maximum
damage
would
be.
And,
of
course,
that's
not
enough
right,
just
losing
a
little
bit
of
money
is
still
losing
money.
AF
So
in
conjunction
to
that
we
set
up
an
insurance
fund.
That's
five
percent
of
our
total
token
Supply,
and,
given
that
we
did
our
last
round
at
a
billion
dollars,
that's
a
substantial
amount
of
money
set
aside
to
cover
that
loss
in
case
an
emergency
does
happen,
and
we
also
do
various
other
things
like
rotating
validator
keys,
so
malicious
after
can't
be
accumulating
to
use,
keys
and
attack
the
network,
and
it's
like
things
like
this-
that
we
really
think
about
on
a
daily
basis,
because
security
is
just
absolutely
Paramount
here.
Yeah.
AE
AE
C
Sure
my
answer
is
much
shorter
and
I
basically
expressed
it
already.
It's
that
we
don't
want
this
liability
I.
Think
that
approaching
that
liability
with
a
sane
angle
of
hey,
we
need
to
you,
know,
restrict
these
things
provide
contingencies.
It
makes
a
lot
of
sense
and
the
way
that
axelr
does
it
has
my
respect
hands
down,
but
the
model
that
we
want
to
introduce
for
smaller
entities
is
just
trustless.
C
It
is
the
idea
that
the
only
other
person
that
you
need
to
interact
with
is
someone
who
you
already
trust,
because
you've
already
made
a
business
arrangement
with
them
to
enable
your
two
products
to
communicate.
So
I
think
that
the
components
that
XLR
is
focused
on
are
the
right
thing.
I
didn't
know
about
the
insurance
fund.
That's
awesome.
C
I'll
have
to
look
into
that
a
little
bit,
but
the
model
that
we're
looking
at
isn't
designed
for
you
know
someone
who's
prepared
to
really
manage
that
at
a
higher
level
at
a
higher
stage
of
growth,
sure
it
doesn't
make
sense
to
maintain
30
like
clients
to
communicate
with
all
the
other
blocks
chains.
But
that's
why
IBC
is
our
focus
and
if
that
means
taking
on
an
IBC
pallet
and
an
xcmp
palette
at
the
same
time
in
the
future,
I
think
that's
not
out
of
the
question.
AF
C
And
I
thought
it
was
really
interesting
when
I
saw
it
was
injective,
because
that's
also
another
party
we've
been
talking
to
about
bringing
it
into
prod
from
Astor,
so
I
I
almost
asked
us
to
like,
say
something
publicly
because
hey
we
talked
to
you
guys.
We
know
you
guys
were
working
on
this
we're
working
on
a
similar
product
that
works
in
a
different
way
right.
C
You
know
in
the
sense
of
user
experience,
this
should
not
be
different,
but
we're
still
in
the
era
that
we're
kind
of
planning
the
way
these
things
are
going
to
work
and
sort
of
structuring
how
that
should
look
for
a
user
long
term
they're
they
shouldn't
care.
They
shouldn't
know
right,
but
on
the
flip
side
of
that,
there's
that
person
who's
developing
a
small
product
I,
don't
want
to
set
a
capital
barrier
for
projects
to
be
able
to.
AE
We've
got
two
minutes
left,
so
I
wanted
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
road
maps,
because
right
now,
like
there
really
isn't
interoperability
between
me
and
polkadot
and
I'm
chomping
at
the
bit
when's.
It
gonna
like
happen.
So
if
you
guys
can
share
a
little
bit.
Obviously
everything
always
is
kind
of
like
a
amorphous
date,
but
a
little
bit
more
about
your
road
maps
for
kind
of
rolling
out
IBC
and
then
that
functionality
and
then
with
axelr
like
when
we
can
expect
to
like
actually
be
able
to
use
this.
So.
C
I'll,
keep
it
relatively
short.
Our
IBC
product
is
in
its
final
steps
of
validation
and
there's
two
pull
requests
left
on
the
relayer,
so
we're
launching
that
by
end
of
the
year,
I'll
be
obligated
to
give
a
couple
of
workshops
on
it
to
make
sure
it's
sort
of
easy
to
use.
I've
already
got
a
couple
of
third-party
validators,
pulling
it
up
and
trying
it.
So
the
IBC
stuff
is
relatively
short,
throw
we're
going
to
be
there
soon.
Nft
bridging
I'm
doing
a
test
net
demo
tomorrow
at
the
booth.
C
C
AF
How
do
you
do
two-way
message
passing
from
Aurora
to
near
so
now
that
that's
ready
we're
able
to
start
building
these
like
true
Crossing
applications,
where
you're
able
to
do
these
cross-chain
swaps
or
cross-chain
deposits,
with
just
one
click
and
I?
Think
in
the
future,
as
axler
has
more
resources
and
we
fit
we,
you
know
complete
our
roadmap
on
integration
and
some
of
the
other
layer
ones.
AF
What
we'll
do
is
we
can
potentially
integrate
near
natively
or
if
the
rumor
is
true
and
near
does
have
an
IPC
connection,
we'll
be
able
to
integrate
near
like
any
other
Cosmos
chain
for
us
to
integrate
a
new,
evm
and
IVC
chain.
It
only
takes
around
10
minutes
so
every
week
we're
continuously
adding
new
IBC
chains,
so
if
near
were
to
become
obvious,
compatible,
I
think
that
would
be
amazing,
because
then
we'll
be
able
to
have
a
direct
connection
to
near
and
we'll
be
able
to
do
all
kinds
of
cool
stuff
awesome.
Well,.
AE
C
AE
AE
AF
R
All
right,
so
we
have
a
couple
of
changes
in
terms
of
our
panelists
today,
so
we
have.
You
know
a
very
distinguished
panel
of
folks
here
to
talk
to
us
about
auditing,
so
we
have
Robert
from
ottersec.
We
have
Giannis
from
chain
security,
we
have
yev
from
hacken
and
we
also
have
mihao
from
halborn.
So
welcome
to
our
panelists
today.
R
All
right,
so
you
know
I,
feel
like
throughout
the
day
and
just
in
general,
we've
been
talking
a
lot
about
vulnerabilities
hacks
breaches,
it's
kind
of
inevitable
right
that
it's
so
kind
of
top
of
mind
for
a
lot
of
people,
and
so
I
think.
One
thing
that
is
clear
is
that
security
is
a
really
tough
problem
to
solve
it's,
it's
an
inevitability.
It's
something
that's
bound
to
happen
in
terms
of
you
know
just
having
vulnerabilities.
But
how
do
you
solve
that?
R
P
Yeah,
that's
a
really
good
question.
I
think
when
we
do
audits,
we
kind
of
categorize
our
findings
and
I'd
say
two
broad
categories.
One
would
be
chain
specific
vulnerabilities
which
deal
with
the
underlying
nuances
of
the
chain
itself
and
then
there's
also
broader
logic,
class
vulnerabilities,
for
example.
If
you
have
a
lending
protocol,
you
might
have
some
sort
of
collateralization
issue
which
would
be
applicable
to
any
chain,
regardless
of
where
you
build
that
lending
protocol.
P
On
the
other
hand,
near
specifically,
you
might
have
issues
with,
for
example,
State
Management,
because
nears
State
tracking
means
that
you
need
to
pay
rent
explicitly
for
storage,
but
unfortunately,
it's
like
the
way
that
that
happens
is
by
sending
near
to
the
contract,
as
opposed
to
having,
like
I'd,
say,
a
more
sane
model
of
like
the
person
paying
for
the
transaction
paying
for
it
implicitly
right.
So
so
that
creates
an
issue
where
you
know.
P
If
you
don't
properly
track
state,
then
you
might
have
a
potential
discrepancy
where
someone
might
be
able
to
get
more
State
than
they
otherwise
should
I'd
say
the
second.
You
know
major
class
of
vulnerability
we
see
on.
There
would
be
anything
to
do
with
asynchronix
execution
right
near
is
very
unique
in
its
execution
model.
AG
So
yes,
Robert
made
the
excellent
division.
We
also
think
in
these
terms
so
same
specific
vulnerabilities
and
vulnerabilities
that
are
related
to
the
business
logic.
So
what
is
really
important
is
to
find
issues
that
our
clients
have
missed
when
they
were
specifying,
for
example,
the
properties
that
their
implementations
wanted
to
hold.
So
this
is
really
important.
Another
issue
that
we
usually
find
has
to
do
with
numerical
problems.
AG
For
example,
decimals
are
not
handled
correctly,
so
from
the
10
specific
vulnerabilities,
I
think
Robert
covered
it
really
well,
so
it
has
to
do
with
the
storage
stating
that
it's
really
important
in
near
and
yeah
I
think
that's
it
and
also
the
the
asynchronous
execution
which,
to
be
honest,
I
was
expecting
it
when
I
was
starting
with
Mir
to
see
more
issues
related
to
the
Sacramento's
execution,
but
yeah.
For
some
reason,
the
people
handled
quite
well.
AH
Yeah
from
our
experience
as
well
like
business
logic,
is
a
huge
and
it's
like
a
chain
agnostic
and
definitely
having
a
near
specific
vulnerabilities.
Just
general
vulnerabilities
and
business
logic
with
the
most
interesting
stuff
is
hidden
but
yeah.
Just
General
like
missing
ownership
checks.
Sign
your
checks
is
something
that
we
deal
with.
Z
Yeah
I
guess
all
our
experience
are
pretty
similar
and
yeah.
The
most
things
I
find
are
related
to
the
contracts
logic
and
if
it's
actually
performing
what
it's
supposed
to
be
doing
and
regarding
near
specific
things,
it's
yeah
probably
promises
and
the
fact
that
cross-contract
calls
are
asynchronous,
which
is
different
and
unique
across
the
whole
chains.
AG
G
R
Z
That's
a
tricky
question
I
personally
like
to
think
of
programming
languages
as
just
the
tools.
It's
not
like
one's
better
and
one's
worse,
like
all
of
them,
are
turning
complete,
so
you
pretty
much
can
code
anything
in
it,
and
so
you
can
have
the
most
secure
language
and
still
have
vulnerabilities
in
there.
But
if
I
had
to
choose
I,
guess
that
would
be
rust
because
out
of
the
box,
it's
the
most
it
it
has.
AG
I
cannot
do
this
so
I
guess
there
are
more
mature
languages
and
less
mature
languages
and
there
are
also
languages
that
require
more
verbosity,
and
maybe
they
expose
hey
the
semantics
better.
For
example,
a
rust
is
more
verbose,
but
I
guess
it
doesn't
hide.
You
know
how
the
pointers
are
handled
compared
to
solid,
for
example,
which
we
usually
find
that
you
know
sorry.
Programmers
ignore
some
of
the
features
of
the
language,
maybe
because
also
the
developers
are
not
as
mature,
because
you
know
the
language
is
not
so
well
tested
or
it's
not.
R
I
guess
kind
of
you
know
on
that,
I
mean
obviously
we're.
You
know
utilizing
JavaScript
now
with
the
JavaScript
sck,
that's
been
around
a
little
bit
longer
and
you
know
in
terms
of
if
you're
referring
to
you
know
someone
who's
a
bit
or
a
language.
That's
more
established
I
mean
what
are
your
thoughts
on
kind
of
you
know,
opening
this
whole
new
door
with
the
JavaScript
SDK.
R
P
P
Think,
while
it's
true,
as
we
mentioned
before,
that
you
know,
you
can
write
bugs
in
any
language,
I
think
one
thing
that
we
care
strongly
about
is
how
do
you
make
a
language
in
a
way
such
that
the
default
path
or
the
easy
path
is
the
safe
one,
because
I
think,
if
you
do
it
that
way,
if
it's
like
the
easiest
solution
is
the
safe
one,
then
people
are
going
to
write
safer
contracts
right
and
that's
something
that
we
care
really
strongly
about.
We've
published
or
I've
written
like
a
number
of
blog
posts.
P
You
know
about
this
General
topic
and
I
guess.
I'd
also
add
that
there's
kind
of
this
distinction
between
Russ,
broadly
and
I'd
say
also
like
rust
per
chain
right.
So,
for
example,
when
you're
talking
about
using
rust
in
near
I'd,
say
it's
like
rust,
plus
whatever
the
neared
buying
gen
SDK
is
right.
P
I
guess
going
back
to
the
like,
JavaScript
SDK
I
mean
I.
Personally
am
not
a
huge
fan
of
that.
Just
because
I
mean
I.
Think
Russ
is
a
really
good
language
and
I
like
I.
Think
Russ
is
probably
better
like
it
has
Type
safety.
It's
you
know
a
prettier
language
in
general.
It
it
like
enables
many
of
these
features
that
you
like
there's
a
reason
why
people
use
rust.
You
know
when
they're
writing
memory
critical
or
like
safety,
critical
systems,
but
yeah
I'm
curious.
What
your
thoughts
are
on
that
yeah.
AH
I
guess,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
it's
important
that
you
can
focus
on
business
logic
and
Building
Products
rather
than
doing
other
stuff,
which
is
connected
to
language
and
others.
It's
good
to
have
proper
documentation,
proper
tools
and
clear
understanding
how
it
works
and
security
from
the
books,
which
is
not
everything
possible,
but
it's
good
to
have
and
focus
on
building
rather
than
thinking
about
all
other
problems
and
language
may
cause.
R
Awesome,
thank
you,
and
you
know
to
your
point.
I
I
do
see
your
perspective
of
yeah.
Russ
is
very
solid
when
it
comes
to
security
and
I'm,
hoping
that
you
know
with
this
whole,
like
kind
of
bringing
in
all
of
the
JavaScript
developers
like
we'll,
be
able
to
maybe
bring
in
more
like
knowledge
and
just
people
who
have
more
experience
and
have
that
perspective
right.
AG
Location
so
scaling
at
least
the
way
we
perceive.
This
concept
is
quite
tricky
to
get
it
right,
especially
when
it
comes
to
audits,
because
we
we
don't
want
to
compromise
the
quality
of
our
work,
so
scaling
and
hiring
many
Engineers
were
not
were
not
ready
to
to
take
the
responsibility.
They
don't
they're,
not
knowledgeable
enough
to
audit
code.
You
know,
might
have
results
that
we
don't
want
so
scaling,
unfortunately,
is
something
that
we
have
to
live
with,
at
least
for
now,
or
you
know,
until
we
find
a
better
way
to
perform.
AH
I
guess
it's
more
about
complex
work,
starting
from
standards
methodologies,
what
we
have
now
in,
like
solidity
and
evm
based
chains
mostly
and
having
the
clear
standard.
What
audit
is
what
should
be
checked
and
for
everyone
to
do
kind
of
basic
checks,
because
for
now
audit
is
something
that's
like
perceived
in
different
ways
for
your
different
Auditors
and
we
don't
have
clear
standards
what
should
be
covered?
Also,
it's
about
knowledge
sharing.
As
far
as
we
don't
have
this,
everyone
does
what
they
want
and
what
they
think
is:
property,
I
guess
this
Foundation.
AH
We
should
create
like
standards
like
tools,
methodologies,
that's
that's
already
working
in
web
2
and
starting
in
evm
stuff.
So
I
guess,
like
knowledge
sharing
and
doing
this
first,
it
will
help
to
scale
but
for
sure
getting
audit.
Now,
especially
for
like
near
and
other
eras,
teams
is
not
that
easy
as
getting
that
for
evm
based
chains,
yeah.
Z
Yeah
absolutely
there's
no
way
around
it
out.
It's
take
time.
They
need
to
take
time.
We
need
to
understand
the
the
project.
We
need
to
know
what
it's
supposed
to
be
doing,
and
then
we
need
to
verify
everything
that
that
the
client
wants
us
to
want
us
to
agree.
So
the
only
natural
way
to
scale
is
to
have
more
of
us,
and
there.
AH
P
Yeah
I'd
actually
disagree
a
little
bit.
I
think
that
there
are
things
that
projects
can
do
to
make
their
you
know
to
make
it
easier
to
get
audited
right,
I
mean
for
for
us
at
least
as
an
auditor.
It's
much
easier
to
read
code.
You
understand
code
that
is
well
documented.
You
know
follows
good
practices.
Has
you
know
same
variable
names?
P
You
know
if,
if
you
put
in
the
time
as
a
project
to
actually
care
about
security
and
to
write
your
code
in
a
way
that
is
easy
for
someone
else
to
understand,
then
I
think
it's
going
to
be
easier
for
us
to
perform
an
audit
it'll
be
faster,
it'll,
be
cheaper
and
it'll
overall,
be
better
for
you,
so
I
mean
I,
think
you
know
at
least
for
us.
We
prefer
to
work
with
projects
that
actually
do
care
about
security
and
I.
Think
that
is
definitely
something
that
you
can
do
to.
AG
Right-
and
there
is
also
the
thing
that
we
discussed-
which
is
the
audit
Readiness,
so
you
got
a
slot
to
be
audited,
but
is
your
project
ready
to
be
audited?
I,
don't
know
what
the
take
of
the
others
here
about
projects
that
you
know
are
ready
to
be
audited
from
your
company,
but
they're
not
ready,
because
they
haven't,
for
example,
specified
all
the
properties
that
their
implementation
wants
to
follow.
AH
Projects
come
for
like
really
auditing
or
like
working
other
than
just
comparing
documentation
on
what
they
have
in
real
code,
and
it's
not
only
about
others,
because
a
lot
of
projects
just
do
this
at
the
end
of
the
year
like
before,
releasing
not
from
the
scratch
when
they
are
planning
the
architecture
and
doing
all
this
security
stuff
before
not
after
they've
done
everything
and
they
like
okay
security,
just
like
Quick
Fix
and
let's
go.
Unfortunately,
that's
the
perception
on
the
market
for
major
parts,
but
still
it's
getting
better.
R
R
I
mean
I,
guess
to
your
point
like
they
should
just
start
thinking
about
it
from
day
Zero
and
you
know
to
Robert's
Point
as
well
like
build
your
code
in
a
way
that
is
easily
auditable,
but
I
mean
you
know
like
in
Earnest.
Once
again,
it
takes
a
lot
of
capital
to
kind
of
pay
for
it
and
it
does
take
a
while.
So
you
know
from
your
perspective
like
at
what
point,
should
projects
start
thinking
about
seriously
thinking
about
getting
an
audit.
AF
Z
Is
not
something
you
can
say
that
it's
done
for
your
project,
it's
basically
a
continuous
process.
So
if
you
want
an
audit,
that's
cool,
that's
great!
You
should
be
audited,
but
if
you
start
thinking
about
security
from
the
very
beginning
and
then
you
can
maybe
go
to
go
through
this
iteratively,
so
maybe
you
you'll
be
updated
more
than
once,
which
is
also
a
good
idea,
and
that
way
you
will
be
able
to
build
with
security
in
mind,
which
is
always
the
better
approach.
P
Yeah
I
feel
like
starting
as
early
as
possible
is
always
good
right.
I
mean
at
the
very
least
you
can
shop
around.
You
can
talk
to
multiple
other
firms
and
then
you
can
get
competitive
quotes
for
your
for
your
project
right.
So
at
the
very
least,
you
know
if
you
start
earlier
right
instead
of
right
before
the
deadline,
there
I
think
there's
a
pretty
big
monetary
incentive
that
you
know.
R
You
know
obviously
I
think
like
bug.
Bounties
have
been
something
that
have
been
around
for
a
while
and
like.
Maybe
there
are
a
lot
of
people
who
just
kind
of
enjoy
doing
that,
but
if
they
wanted
to
get
into
like
auditing
like
smart
contracts
like
what
is
kind
of
like
the
profile
of
an
auditor,
and
what
do
you
guys
look
for-
and
you
know
what's
kind
of
like
the
difference,
maybe
between
someone
who
just
does
bug
bounties
versus
like
auditing.
P
Yeah
I
think
we
try
to
hire
from
people
who
perform
very
well
in
traditional
security,
so
I
mean
we
hire
pretty
exclusively
from
people
who
have
already
have
a
strong
track
track.
Record
of
you
know
hacking
web
2
targets,
and
our
theory
is
that,
if
you're
really
good
at
hacking
websites,
you're,
probably
also
going
to
be
very
good
at
hacking.
You
know
smart
contracts,
which
are
essentially
just
serverless
apps
running
on
some
blockchain
in,
like
some
other
language
right
like
fundamentally,
these
Concepts
cross
apply
very,
very
well.
AH
Yeah
I
would
say
that,
through
our
experience
of
building
bug
Bounty
platform
for
last
five
years
and
having
more
than
12K
hackers
for
like
crypto
projects,
that's
like
different
profiles,
because
there's
people
who
think
fast
learn
fast.
They
are
curious
and
they're
kind
of
independent,
so
Auditors
and
auditing
work
and
hikers
work
is
different
because
Auditors
go
through
all
the
scope
of
work,
checking
everything
and
hackers
just
go
where
they
want
what
they
like
curious
about.
They
can
like
definitely
go
to
one
vulnerability
for
like
weeks
or
months
for
Auditors,
who
don't
have
that
time.
AG
R
All
right,
so
you
heard
it
here
folks,
if
you
are
interested
in
getting
into
auditing
they're,
all
hiring,
all
right,
cool
and
so
I
guess
we're
you
know,
kind
of
down
to
our
last
few
minutes,
I'd
love
to
kind
of
figure
out
like
what
are
you
guys
really
excited
about
like?
What
do
you
think
is
next,
and
what
really
motivates
you.
AH
Okay,
I
guess,
building
this
industry
kind
of
from
the
scratch
and
implementing
ideas
and
approaches
you
learned
from
web2
how
that
would
work
in
Webster.
That's
interesting!
If
we're
talking
about
security,
definitely
now
it's
the
question
about
tools,
methodologies
and
standards,
all
of
us
creating,
for
example,
for
EVMS.
They
have
like
ethereum
Enterprise
Alliance,
making
the
standards
I
guess
we
should
have
something
like
this
for
the
ecosystem
that
are
growing
right
now,
to
have
kind
of
Auditors
that
specializing
on
this
and
have
clear,
clear
standards.
I
guess
that's
that's
important
for
for
the
ground.
AG
Right
so
another
thing
is,
you
know
we
are
passionate
about
learning,
as
we
said.
So
the
question
is
what
we
wake
up
and
we
wonder
what
are
we
going
to
learn
today
and
also
another
question
is:
how
are
we
going
to
improve
our
processes
or
maybe
our
tools
to
you
know
to
contribute
to
the
space
and
make
it
a
little
bit
safer.
Z
P
Yeah
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
core
Innovation
to
be
done
with
regard
to
making
programs
like
structurally
safer
I
know.
I
know
we
talked
a
bit
about
the
scaling
issue
and
I
feel,
like
you
know,
there's
a
lot
of
innovation
still
about.
How
can
we,
for
example,
automate
some
of
that
process
with
tooling?
You
know:
how
can
we,
for
example,
formally
verify
contracts
to
prove
that
they're
secure?
How
can
we,
you
know,
have
these
processes
in
place
such
that
we
don't
need
as
much
human
intervention.
P
Of
course,
I
think
there's
always
going
to
be
a
human
element,
but
ideally
want
to
minimize
that
as
much
as
possible.
So
we
can
scale
out
better
and
at
least
personally
for
me,
I
think
that's
kind
of
where
the
Leading
Edge
of
security
research
is
going
to
be,
and
that's
something
that
we
know
we're
very
actively
looking
into
and
is
really
exciting.
R
AG
AH
It
scares
me
to
just
to
think
that
before,
but
I
guess
what
is
important
to
have
security
more
preventive
rather
than
reactive,
and
also
it's
important
to
notice
that
security
is
a
process
ongoing
process
and
it
starts
from
the
day
Zero,
and
it
continues
all
the
time
and
it's
good
to
have
not
just
Auditors.
At
the
end,
it's
good
to
have
structured
defensive
depths
process
in
your
project
when
you
do
internal
audits,
external
audits,
bug
bounties,
like
insurance,
and
you
do
everything
possible
to
protect
to
protect
your
users.
Your
reputation
and
finance.
G
R
Yeah
I
mean
I
I
was
mentioning
to
them
earlier.
You
know.
Security
is
something
that
I
personally
am
really
passionate
about,
but
you
know
being
in
a
room
full
of
like
Auditors
I
feel
like
you
know,
they
have
amazing
insights
and
so
at
the
end
of
the
talk,
if
you
guys
are
interested
or
have
any
questions,
please
feel
free
to,
you
know
come
up
and
talk
to
them,
but
yeah.
Thank
you
again
for
sharing
your
thoughts
and
time.
Today
it's
been
a
pleasure
all.
AI
AI
First
thing
treasuries
are
bleeding,
especially
in
this
situation
of
the
market.
It's
not
uncommon
to
see
these
type
of
wallets
that
have
been
going
down
like
more
than
95
percent.
It's
actually
on
average
treasury
wallets
have
gone
down
90
percent,
mostly
because
of
the
total
lack
of
the
diversification
highly
concentrating
in
one
single
token,
and
especially
for
Dows.
There
is
obviously
more
like
there's
chaotic
governance
processes
which
make
it
make
it
really
hard
to
make
decisions
around
how
to
manage
money.
AI
We
will
talk
about
that
in
a
second
and
there's
actually
something
also
a
bit
maybe
like
underrated,
which
is
what
we
call
a
hollow
effect.
It's
a
typical
cognitive
bias
whereby
Founders,
which
are
you
know,
who
are
typically
technically
minded
or
coming
from
a
technical
background.
Their
skill
does
not
necessarily
translate
into
Financial
skill
skill
set,
but
they're
still,
you
know
they're
still
responsible
for
managing
those
treasuries.
So
it's
important
to
manage
those
treasury
more
and
more
professionally.
AI
AI
So
I
think
this
is
like
the
lesson
learned
and
something
that
all
project
crypto
projects
have
to
take
on
as
a
as
a
mantra
professionally.
Treasury
management
is
an
integral
part
of
any
project
long-term
success.
This
is
like
something
that
has
to
be
internalized
by
all
project
and
we
get
it.
I
mean:
let's,
let's
exercise
some
empathy,
some
sometimes
treasury
management
is
not
really
professionalized,
not
not
so
well
done,
because
it's
overwhelming
there's
so
many
questions
to
answer
before
something
can
get
implemented.
AI
Those
questions
is
like
those
questions
are
typically,
how
can
how
can
we
keep
custody?
How
can
we
maintain
control
decentralized
control
and
security
around
those
those
assets?
How
can
we
get
an
effective,
quick,
fast
delegation
without
trusting
somebody
with
our
funds
and
then
like
after
you
answer
those
two
questions
you
still
have
like?
What
strategy
are
we
actually
gonna
run
and
who
is
going
to
be
in
charge
of
managing
those
funds
and
I?
AI
Think
I
would
like
to
make
a
point
here
because,
like
most
of
the
times,
Founders
tend
to
think
into
these
two
buckets
and
I
spend
a
lot
of
time
in
governance
fora,
and
it's
obvious
that
the
conversation
always
goes
into
this
pros
and
cons
in
opposite
direction.
One
is
like
okay:
we
either
keep
our
funds
safe
and
we
control
them
through
a
multi-signature
wallet,
which
is
you
know,
and
we
have
to
live
with
a
very
slow,
very
tedious
approval
process,
because
every
time
we
run
a
transaction
we
have.
We
need
10
signatures.
AI
So
obviously
we
cannot
have
like
Fast
implementation
and
on
on
the
other
side
of
the
spectrum,
we
have
something
like
okay,
let's
delegate
it
to
somebody
else
who
can
manage.
Who
can
like
professionally
do
it,
but
then
we
have
to
give
them
some
sort
of
direct
access
to
our
funds
and
of
course,
neither
of
them.
Let
me
tell
you
spoiler
alert,
neither
of
them
actually
works
because,
as
we
said
on
in
the
first
one,
approval
fatigue
too
many
things
too
many
signatures
too
many.
You
know
too
many
steps
and
so
there's
a
paralysis
right.
AI
There
same
thing
happens
on
the
other
side,
same
paralysis,
but
for
different
reasons,
because
every
time
you
bring
up
the
idea
of
trusting
somebody
with
your
some
direct
access
to
your
funds,
then
obviously
there's
a
whole
bunch
of
community
pushback
and
and
paralysis
right
there,
because
then
things
get
simply
stuck
so
big
questions
of
today.
Big
question
is:
where
do
we
go
from
here?
Well,
then,
that's!
Well,
that's
all
I
came
for
to
Lisbon
to
actually
answer
this
very
specific
question.
AI
The
answer
is
enzyme,
which
is
the
it's
a
crucial
piece
of
infrastructure
and
tooling
for
treasury
management,
and
we
are
very
excited
about
this,
because
not
only
is
it
a
sound
technical
solution,
but
it's
also
the
extra
benefit
of
using
something
like
enzyme
is
avoiding
the
the
endless
arguments
about
hey.
Shall
we
trust
somebody?
Shall
we
not?
Shall
we
keep
security?
How
do
we
delegate
and
so
forth?
Let
me
tell
you
exactly
how
it
works,
so
you
understand
why
you
think
you
can
get
both.
AI
Let's
say,
let's
say
you
start
with
a
treasury
multisig
like
agnosis,
say,
for
example,
but
there
could
be
other.
You
know
it
could
also
come
from
a
like
a
custodian
if
you're
like
a
more
centralized
project,
let's
say,
but
let's
say
you
start
with
a
multi-sig
what
you
can
do
with
your
multisig,
which
is
the
where
you
have
initially
your
funds,
you
can
create
and
own
your
Vault,
you
meaning
you
create
a
specific
contract
on
enzyme
that
you
own
and
control,
and
there
you
can
actually
in
your
vault
in
your
enzyme,
Vault.
AI
You
can
then
deposit
funds
and
when
you
do
deposit
funds
you
receive
shares
which
are
tokenized
shares
like
eoc20
tokens,
which
can
be
held
and
custodies
in
the
smart,
smart
contract
wallet.
That
also
means
that,
at
any
point
in
time
you
can
go
back
to
the
to
the
Vault
burn
the
shares
and
redeem
those
funds.
AI
So
you
effectively
have
control
known
custodial
control
over
your
asset,
and
here
it's
where
it
gets
even
more
interesting,
because
the
step
two
is
actually
actually
now
you
can
delegate
to
somebody
else,
who's
like
more,
like
professionally
prepared
and
specialized
in
running
that
strategy
operating
that
strategy.
As
you
as
you
can
see
from
this,
like
darker
box,
you
effectively
create
like
a
safe
playground
where
you
can
delegate
to
somebody
else
according
to
certain
rules,
because,
as
you
can
see
here,
you
can
encode
in
a
smart
contract,
smart
contract,
exactly
what
the
manager
can
do.
AI
You
can
say
Hey,
you
can
only
touch
these
two
assets.
You
can
only
interact
with
these
two
protocol.
You
can
only
take,
as
you
know,
like
this
much
slippage,
for
every
trades.
You
do
so.
You
have
a
level
of
granularity
of
those
permissions
which
is
super
accurate
and
you
can
define
those
Rule
and
enforce
and
smart
contracts.
So
it's
not
really
based
on
trust.
It's
based
on
code,
which
is
the
most
important
thing,
and
this
manager
then,
can
be
actually
a
professional
manager.
AI
You
know
it
can
be
also
an
internal
delegation,
an
internal
internally
internal
person
that
is
appointed
to
manage
those
assets.
But
the
good
thing
is
that
you
can
enable
then
speed
and
efficiency,
because
you
have
one
single
operator
that
can
can
do
several
several
things
as
long
as
they
are
pre-approved
right,
that
guy
or
that
person
can
actually
deploy
a
strategy
which
is
pre-agreed
by
the
whole
Dao
or
by
the
whole
project,
multisig
and
also
updated,
and
here
again
I
would
like
to
make
another
point.
AI
It's
not
just
about
defining
a
strategy,
it's
also
about
keeping
it
up
to
date
because
most
of
the
time
strategies
like
they
go
obsolete
very
soon.
So
it's
important
to
keep
on
top
of
the
markets
and
see
how
things
evolve
and
what
needs
to
be
done
and
to
close
the
loop
last
point:
you
get
the
transparency
of
a
24
7
track
record,
which
shows
exactly
the
evolution
of
your
or
your
whole
strategy
of
multiple
sorry
of
your
treasury,
with
multiple
strategies
in
in
all
in
one
so
all
unified.
AI
So
we
have
I.
Guess
I
made
the
point
that
we
have
two
of
those
important
questions
down
so
the
how
is
there
but
then
so,
like
what
strategy
can
we
run
and
who
can
run
it
in
terms
of
what
what
we
we
can
run?
We
definitely
have
you
know
like
you:
can
Define
your
own
bespoke
very
custom
made
device
strategies.
AI
We
have
15
Integrations
on
it
on
on
ethereum
and
around
five
on
polygon,
so
you
can
really
Define
your
own
strategy
based
on
your
own
needs
and
some
one
of
the
cool
things.
For
example,
you
could
automate
a
DCA
strategy
into
stablecoin.
Let's
say
you
want
to
diversify.
You
can
have
like
an
automation
that
runs
a
dollar
cost
averaging
and
gets
more
into
stable.
So
you
can
have
you
know
you
don't
have
to
argue
about?
Is
it
a
good
time
to
buy?
AI
Is
it
a
good
time
to
sell
that
again
leads
to
paralysis
and
endless
discussions?
You
can
also
do
other
things
like
you
know.
Eels
and
dow-to-door
swaps
are
also
possible.
You
can
participate
in
governance
from
an
enzyme,
Vault
there's
a
bunch
of
things
that
you
can
do
and
if
you
see
something
that
you
cannot
do
yet
well,
just
be
aware
that
avant-garde.
Is
there
really
to
help
and
and
do
custom
developments
for
so
for
for
for
users
and
like
I
was
talking
and
album
guard
can
actually
help.
AI
Also,
in
terms
of
management,
I
mean
we,
we
have
expertise
in
D5
and
traditional
finance
and
we
do
custom
development
as
I
said
before.
If
something
is
not
there
yet,
but
your
user
would
like
to
see
it
and
we
can
Define
strategies
help
project
Define
their
own
strategies,
tailor
it
to
their
needs
and
then
execute
them
and
keep
them
up
to
date.
AI
All
the
time
like
this
one,
for
example,
on
the
left,
you
see
like
a
strategy
that
has
just
started
a
few
weeks
ago
with
Nexus
Mutual,
which
has
departed
deposited
around
15
000
ethereum
and
is
now
running
a
strategy
with
Maple
Finance
based
on
on
an
enzyme
Vault.
So
this
is
an
example
of
something
that
can
be
done
so
I
guess
now.
AI
We
cover
all
the
bases,
and
we
understand
that
it's
overwhelming
and
it's
and
it's
complex,
there's
a
lot
of
decisions,
a
lot
of
people
that
have
to
make
decisions
around
these
topics,
but
we
are
there
to
help
and
we
definitely
have
the
critical
piece
of
infrastructure
that
can
enable
this.
This
professional
management
and
I
guess.
The
icing
on
the
cake
is
the
fact
that
you
can
have
a
totally
wide
label
Bolton
enzyme.
That
means
that
you
can
have
a
custom
interface
that
has
the
looks
and
feel
of
your
project.
AI
With
your
logos
and
and
colors
and
themes,
you
can
have
a
unique
URL.
So
that's
good!
You
can
link
it
on
your
onto
your
website.
It's
fully
Community
oriented,
so
it's
really
like
where
the
community
comes
together.
To
see
the
status
of
your
finances,
and
so
enzyme
can
actually
become
like
a
purely
invisible
D5
layer
that
you
know
that
user
they
don't
even
need
to
know
necessarily
that
enzyme
is
in
the
background.
AI
Question
is
like
how
near
is
near
I
think
we
are
looking
at
the
near
ecosystem.
We
are
excited
to
see
that
all
the
D5
projects
coming
up
and
the
defy
ecosystem
that
is
evolving.
We
have
a
strategic,
obviously
interest
in
in
how
it's
evolving
and
we
are
exploring
we're
exploring
like
the
possible
deployments
onto
onto
near
definitely.
AI
So
we
want
to
hear
from
the
projects
hear
from
you
guys
hear
your
needs
and
definitely
we're
interested
in
in
talking
to
projects
that
might
want
to
run
a
professional
treasury
Management
on
near
natively
or
also
Elsewhere
on
ethereum
or
polygon,
but
obviously
near
being,
like
probably
the
main,
the
main
place
for
for
them
I'm,
a
very
pragmatic
guy.
So
this
is
this.
Qr
code
leads
to
my
to
my
calendar.
AI
So
if
somebody
wants
to
have
a
chat
with
me,
these
days
happy
to
sit
down
with
you
guys
and
have
a
30
minutes.
So
we
can
go
into
details
of
how
or
what
we
can
work
together
here.
You
can
also
see
my
telegram
handle,
so
if
you,
if
you
want
to
have
a
more
direct
contact,
you
can
also
text
me
here
and
I.
Don't
know
if
there's
a
random
question.
Otherwise
my
presentation
is
concludes
here.
Thank
you
very
much.
AJ
All
right,
hello,
everyone,
thank
you
guys
so
much
for
rolling
in
today.
This
is
a
a
a
very
Hot
Topic
in
our
world
because
we're
both
in
music-
and
this
is
very
we're,
seeing
this
solve
a
lot
of
problems
in
the
future
of
the
music
business
and
even
morphing
into
new
things.
We
never
thought
of
such
as
endless
but
I'm
Amber
stowman,
with
minting
music.
AJ
This
is
Tim
from
endless
FM
and
we're
just
going
to
kind
of
talk
about
how
musicians
are
using
web3
right
now,
and
the
tools
endless
is
building
to
support
these
musicians.
A
lot
of
first
off,
we
kind
of
need
to
give
a
little
background
on
Tim
I
think
it
actually
solidifies.
You
know
why
you've
built
what
you've
built
and
where
you
came
from
so
take
us
through
a
little
bit
of
an
intro
on
yourself
and
kind
of
you
know.
What's
your
background
and
how
you
got
into
music
and
Tech
yeah.
AK
So
my
musical
Journey
started
when
I
was
a
kid
five
years
old
I
picked
up
the
violin
and
what
I
loved
about
the
violin
is
it
it's
embodied.
You
put
your
bow
on
the
string.
You
move
your
body,
music
happens
while
you're
moving
your
body
when
you
stop
moving
your
body,
the
Music
Stops.
So
it's
something
that's
essentially
communicative.
It
happens
in
a
space,
it
can
happen
in
the
space
with
people
and
it
can
Inspire
interactions.
AK
So
that
was
my
frame
that
set
the
frame
for
what
music
was
for
me
and
then,
when
I
was
a
teenager,
I
fell
in
love
with
electronic
music
and
I
knew
that
that
sound
world
was
going
to
be
my
life's
work,
but
at
the
time
electronic
music
was
the
absolute
opposite
of
embodied
music.
You
know:
you'd
go
into
the
studio,
you'd
design,
music
on
a
screen.
AK
It
made
more
money
than
the
entire
record
and
all
the
touring
of
that
year
and
it
was
so
effortless
to
do
that.
I
felt
like
yeah.
This
is
this
is
where
it's
at
for
me
and,
most
importantly,
I,
was
making
instruments
that
allowed
me
to
relate
to
music
in
the
way
I
wanted
to
relate
to
music.
So
that's
really
the
backstory
to
endless
the
way
endless
works.
AK
The
way
you
make
music
on
endless
is
lifted
directly
out
of
that
instrument,
I
built
for
myself,
and
that
came
after
this
kind
of
realization
that
ultimately,
the
technology
I'd
built
was
much
better.
The
potential
of
it
was
much
bigger
than
just
me
as
an
artist.
It
was
something
that
could
and
should
be
brought
to
the
world
and
that's
what
endless
is
about
specifically.
AK
This
is
basically
what
was
it.
It
was
about
10
years
ago
that
people
started
saying
that
you
know
software
is
eating
the
world.
There
was
this
whole
narrative
coming
out
of
Silicon
Valley
software
is
eating.
The
world
I
think
we're
now
at
an
inflection
point.
Where
that
you
know
that's
that
has
happened.
Software
has
eaten
the
world.
The
next
thing
that
will
eat
the
world
is
gaming,
and
you
know
there's
a
lot
of
talk.
Obviously,
there's
a
lot
of
talk
about
web
three
there's
a
lot
of
talk
about
AI.
AK
You
know
you
look
at
the
the
companies
that
have
been
incredibly
successful
in
the
last
five
years
or
so
they're
all
gaming,
adjacent
twitch,
Roblox,
fortnite,
Minecraft
and
also
I
would
say
you
know
the
nft
boom
of
2021
was
also
very
gaming.
The
way
it
played
out
was
very
gaming.
Like
you
know,
all
the
analogies
of
you
know
getting
these
Discord
servers
and
you
know
trying
to
get
on
the
pre-mint
and.
AK
Exactly
yeah
and
the
narrative
about
that
was
very
much
driven
by
Gaming,
so
you
know
to
translate
this
thing
that
I
I
feel
in
my
heart
about
what
music
is
for
me
into
how
how
we
then
frame
that
into
a
mission
that
speaks
to
where
the
world
is
at
today,
we're
gamifying
the
music
industry.
That's
that's
the
simplest
way
to
talk
about
what
we're
doing.
AJ
I
one
of
the
things
I
love
most
about
what
endless
is
doing,
is
it's
bringing
community
and
relationships
together?
Well,
it's
bringing
community
and
it's
building
relationships
with
this
community
and
it's
it's
giving
I
mean
we
all
know
after
covid
being
in
Music
City
capital
of
the
world
in
Nashville,
everyone
went
to
zoom
to
collaborate.
Well,
there's
a
lot
of
problems
with
zoom
on
collaborating
in
real
time
on
an
asset
like
music,
and
so
what
we
were
seeing
is
like
there's
delay
there.
AJ
It
was
hard
to
collaborate
in
that
space,
and
now
endless
has
created
something
where
you
can
collaborate
in
real
time,
with
a
ton
of
different
elements
that
you
would
need
for
a
song.
You
can
mint
it
yeah
in
real
time
and
you
know,
and
you
get
you
get
split
royalties
as
well.
So
those
things
talk
more
about
the
community
aspect,
the
relationships
and
how
that
collaboration
happens
on
endless.
AK
Yeah
well
again,
coming
back
to
the
gaming
analogy
what
what
gaming
is
really
good
at
is
basically
minimizing
time
to
impact
in
a
multiplayer
game,
a
real-time
game.
You
carry
out
some
action.
You'll
get
feedback
from
your
fellow
players,
pretty
much
immediately.
Look
at
the
music
industry
as
it
is
today
time
to
impact,
is
measured
in
days
at
best,
probably
more
like
weeks
and
months
till
you
get
that
feedback
loop.
AK
AK
Now
we
could
be
trading,
beats
vocals,
synth
lines
whatever
and
build
up
music
on
the
Fly,
and
then
we
could
share
a
link
to
that
jam
out
and
anybody
you
know
to
our
audiences.
Anybody
can
tune
in
in
real
time
on
the
web
and
can
pick
up
that
music
as
nfts
as
it's
being
made
so
again
like
time
to
impact
time
to
Value
time
between
you,
us,
creating
something
and
us
having
royalties
split
back
into
our
near
wallets
can
be
measured
in
seconds,
what's
really
powerful.
AK
AK
We
reduce
that
whole
time
frame
to
like
a
minute
or
two
and
we
turn
it
into
a
conversation.
So
the
creative
process
is
a
conversation.
The
Collection
process
is
a
conversation.
Everything
is
an
interaction
and
it
means
that
there's
this
instant
feedback
loop,
so
we're
going
back
and
forth
back
and
forth
back
and
forth
in
Creation.
AK
In
transaction
in
following
and
that's
what
builds
relationships
like
all
the
people
who
you
know
and
love
in
your
lives,
you've
come
to
know
and
love
those
people
by
being
in
the
same
room
together,
and
you
know,
through
banter
and
quick
interactions
where
you,
you
really
learn.
You
learn
the
essence
of
those
people
and
that's
like
we're
empowering
that
for
music
and
that's
what
gaming
is
good
at
and
and
when
it
comes
to
web
three
and
transactions.
AK
AJ
To
slight
this
a
whole
another
conversation,
but
to
slightly
skim
on
what
you
said
around
royalties.
This
is
a
huge
pain
point
in
the
music
business,
the
business
there's
an
artist
side
to
music
and
then
there's
a
business
side
to
music
and
there's
a
bunch
of
suit
and
ties
that
are
buying
and
selling
catalogs
all
the
time,
and
so
the
latency
and
getting
a
payment
for
pros
for
performance
rights.
AJ
Organizations
is
nine
months,
nine
months
at
minimum
and
so
you're
paying
out
in
seconds
and
the
real
world
music
industry
is
paying
out
nine
to
ten
months
later,
if
you're
lucky.
So
this
also
hits
on
the
royalty
problem
as
well
and
getting
creators
money
in
their
pockets
to
be
able
to
turn
right
around
and
create
more
yes,.
AK
AK
You
get
a
job
with
a
tech
company
you'll
get
your
salary
at
the
end
of
every
month,
like
musicians
get
their
sound,
and
that's
nine
months
before
that
you
even
start
thinking
about
getting
paid
a
lot.
You
know
I've
when,
when
I
was
making
music,
I
did
a
few
a
few
tracks
in
like
production,
libraries
for
like
BMG
and
Sony
production
libraries,
the
peak
of
those
royalties
started
coming
in
about
four
years
later,
and
it's
it's
just
it's
just
yeah,
it's
crazy.
So.
AJ
It
is
so
crazy,
a
song
say
we
play
Lady
Gaga
song
right
now
that
one
song
reaps
10
royalty
streams
in
that
moment,
10
different
royalty
streams
and
they
all
have
different
owners.
So
a
song
is
a
mega
fractionalized
asset
that
is
paying
the
upward
on
a
major
label.
Artist,
30
creatives
in
one
Stream
So,
the
accountability,
the
admin
work
just
all
of
it
is
so
like
jumbled
in
the
web
2
space.
That
is
creating
epic
opportunity
to
be
able
to
claim
and
collect
all
in
real
time
and.
AB
AK
Totally
and
also
I
think
there's
a
there's,
a
side
note
there
as
well
that
I
remember
when
so,
when
you
know,
when
ethereum
launched
in
2015
I
had
a
lot
of
friends
like
image
and
Heap,
for
example,
a
very
good
friend
of
mine
Technologies.
He
she
basically
kind
of
released
the
First
music
on
the
blockchain
like
way
back
when
and
I
was
kind
of,
I
was
I
was
bearish
on
blockchain
back
then,
because
all
the
narratives
I
was
hearing
about
the
application
for
blockchain
and
music
was
solving
rights.
AK
Distribution
and
I
was
just
like
nah,
because
the
problem
is
not
a
technology
problem.
The
problem
is
a
vested
interest
problem
so
because
there's
a
technology
that
can
distribute
royalties,
programmatically
and
instantly
doesn't
mean
that
prox
is
going
to
give
up
their
four
percent
cut
for
being
a
middleman,
because
there's
better
technology,
it's
not
going
to
happen
and
it
still
isn't
going
to
happen.
So
I
think
what
you
know.
The
real
opportunity
for
for
web3
music
is
to
just
build
around.
You
know
not
to
try
and
solve
these
solve
these
problems
and
I.
AK
AJ
Q
AJ
AK
Yeah,
and
by
by
dropping
the
barriers
to
collaboration
the
barriers
to
who
you
can
collaborate
with
it,
makes
it
it's
it's
very
frictionless
you
can
try,
you
can
be
experimental.
I
was
chatting,
it
was
a
couple
of
years
ago
now,
but
I
was
chatting
to
a
head
of
digital
I.
Think
at
Warner
about
what
we
were
doing
and
she
was
saying
that
you
know
one
of
the
big
problems
like
the
major
labels
have
well.
All
labels
have
is
like
they
see.
AJ
Two
I
feel
like:
when
creation
happens,
it's
it's
almost
like
a
spiritual
experience
and
so
those
moments,
you
know
you
sit
in
a
room
with
a
co-write
or
you
sit
in
a
room
while
co-writers
and
a
producer
are
putting
together
a
song.
It's
it's
very
magical,
it's
something
very
special
to
you
almost
produce
a
song
baby
and
you
present
it
into
the
world,
but
it
it
is
a
very
magical
process
and
what
you
guys
are
doing
at
endless.
Like
you
said
earlier
fuses
together
these
relationships,
the
tech
isn't
just
Tech.
AK
I
mean
the
the
word
magic
I
mean.
Maybe
it
sounds
a
bit
cliche,
but
we
actually
we
talk
a
lot
about
magic.
We
we
want
to
optimize
everything
for
for
magic,
because
it
is,
as
you
say,
it's
a
magical
experience,
particularly
for
the
people
who
are
participating,
but
you
know
there
is.
We
know
from
speaking
to
our
the
endless
community
that
there
is
there's
an
art.
AK
The
aha
moment,
experience
in
Endless
is:
when
you
drop
into
a
jam,
you
lay
down
a
riff,
you
add
a
layer
to
something,
and
then
it
comes
back
10
20
30
seconds
later,
and
someone
has
added
something
in
real
time.
On
top
of
what
you've
just
done,
that
that's
the
moment
that
people
who've
had
that
experience
stick
around
forever.
AK
Yeah
and
I
think
that
one
of
the
things
we're
really
focusing
on
right
now
is
how
how
we
can
accelerate
people
into
that
experience
and
then
also
how
how
we
can
sort
of
create
a
bit
of
a
like
front
row
audience
around
that.
So
you
don't
necessarily
have
to
be
part
of
you
know.
If
you
have
10
people
creating
at
once
is
probably
a
bit
too
much
if
I
pay
five
people
creating
at
the
same
time
is
this
kind
of
like
perfect
a
perfect
mix.
But
then
how
can
we?
AK
How
can
we
invite
people
in
say
50
people
in
to
have
a
kind
of
front
row
experience
that
really
understand?
What's
going
on
that,
maybe
kind
of
know
these
people
a
little
bit
from
seeing
what
they've
done
in
the
ecosystem,
like
that's
how
we
propagate
the
magic?
But
you
know
we're
here
to
propagate.
AJ
Magic
yeah,
I
love
it
I,
love
it
and
the
collaboration
thing
you
know
it
being
in
the
music
space.
This
is
this
is
in
the
music
current
music
industry,
songwriting
co-writing
together,
is
quite
you
know
the
it's
quite
the
thing
to
do
in
the
music
space,
because
you're
co-writing
with
another
artist,
you're
you're,
practically
almost
buying
into
that
song
through
your
creative
and
so
bringing
all
that
stuff
together,
like
you
guys,
are
just
doing
a
great
job
and
being
able
to
recognize
pull
those
things
together.
AJ
H
AJ
But
endless
you've
got
access
to
so
many
different
ways
that
you
can
be
an
artist
without
actually
like
having
to
go
through
learning
the
studio
equipment
or
you
know
you
could
come
in
and
write
on
something,
but
those
things
are
really
interesting,
because
I
think
we're
actually
even
giving
people
a
way
to
be
an
artist
that
maybe
never
put
themselves
in
that
category.
Before
yes,.
AK
AJ
AK
Let's
see
here,
we
are
yeah
okay,
so
yeah
we've
got
there's
over
150
000
accounts
on
the
platform.
This
is
already
out
of
a
little
bit
out
of
debt.
I
think
we're
over
160
000,
now
28
000
jams
created,
so
jams
are
kind
of
like
they're
rooms
where
people
can
come
together.
So
these
are
individual
contacts
that
people
have
been
like.
I
started
this
Jam
you
and
I
could
have
a
jam.
AK
AK
Riffs
are
kind
of
like,
like
our
music's
answer,
to
a
tick
tock
video,
it's
like
a
short
form
piece
of
music.
It's
like
30
seconds
to
a
minute
of
Music
it
loops
around.
It's
got
multiple
layers
in
it.
You
can
experience
it
as
like
a
short
piece
of
music.
Just
like
awesome,
you
could
kind
of
consume
it
in
in
one
go,
it's
not
an
entire
song,
but
it's
also
got
all
the
all
the
layers
that
that
all
the
contributors
added
into
that.
AK
So
if
you
collect
a
riff
as
an
nft
one
of
the
one
of
the
permissions
you
get
by
collecting
that
token
or
one
of
the
permissions
you
will
get,
but
this
is
still
in
development.
We
haven't
shipped
this
yet,
but
you
can
then
create
a
remix
of
that
nft
start
a
jam
which
is
a
remix
Jam
for
that
that
riff
and
you
can
add
layers
on
top
of
it,
you
can
remix
it.
AK
You
can
turn
that
into
an
nft
and
there'll,
be
residual
Royal
royalties,
going
back
to
the
original
Creator,
so
we're
kind
of
creating
this
like
cascading
royalty
system.
So
that's
what
a
riff
is.
It's,
like!
A
short
form,
Tick,
Tock
style,
piece
of
music-
that
is
it's
like
it's
kind
of
Rich,
interactive
media.
So
it's
completely
unbundable
as
well.
That's.
AJ
Awesome,
and
so
you
guys
have
already
pulled
in
150,
000
use,
160.
and
so
there's
so
much
collaboration
already
happening
we're
you
know
you
guys
are
still
young
and
growing
this
quickly
and
I
think
it
also
speaks
to
the
collaborative
nature
of
Music
in
general,
and
so
I
mean
you
guys
are
growing
at
the
speed
of
light
and
I'm
really
excited
to
see
what
music
comes
of
this.
What
are
these
new
genres?
What
are
these
you
know
being
in
the
music
industry?
Everything's
always
been
housed
in
little
Bubbles
and,
as
we've
seen
more
Global
collaboration.
G
AK
Well,
it's
it's
bringing
about
a
music
it.
It
redefines
music
as
something
that
is
relational
rather
than
just
the
products
we
consume
so
genre.
You
know
genres
and
territories,
and
so
on
is
very
much
how
we
talk
about
like
the
old
music
industry,
I
think
in
the
future
music
industry.
It's
it's
all
going
to
be.
You
know,
there's
going
to
be
a
lot
to
do
with
reputation.
There's
going
to
be
a
lot
to
do
with
history.
AK
AJ
Here,
for
that
I'm
all
about
Community
I'm,
all
about
creatives
as
I
know,
you
are
too
I
think
that
about
wraps
us
up
now,
but
Tim
wow.
This
has
been
fantastic,
very
excited
to
see
where
you
guys
go
in
the
future
and
I
definitely
started
my
own
endless
account
yet
guys
I'm
going
to
create
some
beats
so
get
ready
for
that.
Can't.
AK
G
AB
AL
Awesome
everyone
well,
thank
you
I,
like
actually
all
of
you
to
give
it
yourselves
a
hand.
A
round
of
applause
like
here
we
are,
it's
like
something
getting
close
to
6
p.m.
In
Portugal,
we've
had
a
long
day,
you're
here,
you're
still
here,
you're
active
nice
awesome.
So
you
can
probably
tell
from
the
slide
behind
me
I'm
here,
to
talk
about
surviving
the
gauntlet.
As
a
technical,
founder,
I
am
Drew
right,
I'm,
a
developer
that
became
a
technical,
founder
I
had
the
opportunity
to
create
a
product.
AL
AL
Only
14
minutes
or
so
are
lessons
that
I
learned
myself
the
hard
way,
but
also
that
I
got
to
speak
with
other
technical
Founders
about
there's
a
lot
of
really
common
problems
that
we
have
on
a
personal
note,
I'm
really
into
nerdy
things,
I
also
like
travel
and
cooking
and
speaking
some
languages.
So
that's
a
little
bit
about
me.
AL
I'm
also
really
happy
to
be
here,
representative
kagoda
Pagoda.
If
you
haven't
heard
of
us
you,
actually,
you
have
probably
used
our
work
right.
So
we
have
the
largest
contributors
to
the
open
source
near
protocol,
which
is
what
near
and
near
con
is
celebrating,
and
we
are
now
adding
a
layer
of
products
on
top
to
make
it
even
easier
to
build
run,
manage
deploy
your
adapts
on
near.
So,
if
you're
interested
in
anything
like
that,
you
can
go
actually.
AL
Our
booth
is
just
outside
the
doors
here
and
we'd
be
happy
to
talk
to
you
about
that.
But
that's
enough
about
that.
Let's
talk
about
these
things,
I
find
it.
You
know.
Typically,
you
start
a
project.
What's
a
good
idea
was
define
success.
Define
it
openly
make
it
public
make
it.
You
know
acknowledge,
so
the
team
can
understand
what
it
is.
You're
trying
to
do.
AL
My
goal
today
is
actually
to
help
at
least
one
other
technical
founder,
make
it
through
right,
survive
the
gauntlet,
and
so
with
that,
actually
I'd
love
to
get
a
sense
for
who's
in
the
room.
Are
there?
Is
there
anybody
else
in
this
room
who
would
consider
themselves
a
technical,
technical,
founder
somebody,
who's,
technical,
starting,
a
project,
I
think
all
right
we
got,
we've
got
our
Elite
at
least
some
hesitant
hands
here.
All
right,
awesome
awesome.
Anybody
else
here
work
with
technical
Founders
on
a
team
yep
some
quick
hands.
AL
There
awesome
anybody
else,
thinking
of
maybe
someday
becoming
a
technical
founder.
Maybe
something
awesome
all
right
and
it's
like
we
know.
Some
of
us
are
here
with
co-workers.
So
if
you
raise
your
hand
there
I
know
that
was
on
behalf
of
a
friend
of
yours,
great
awesome,
well,
I'm
gonna
say
like
I've
spoken
with
a
lot
of
technical
Founders
and
is
this
is
really
universally
true,
I'm,
quite
confident
in
this
statement.
AL
AL
If
you
pretty
much
in
my
experience,
if
you
ask
someone,
are
you
working
on
your
MVP?
Do
you
have
your
MVP
et
cetera?
The
answer
will
be
yes,
we're
working
on
it.
It's
coming
along
we're
kind
of
not
quite
Randy
with
it
yet
Etc.
In
my
experience,
you're
already
over
built
you're
already
a
long
ways
past
and
I
did
this
myself
like
this
is
I.
You
know
it's!
It's
not
a
big
deal.
AL
There's
you
know,
there's
a
path
to
success,
even
though
you
may
have
overbuilt
and
by
way
of
analogy,
I'm
going
to
share
something
that
I
think
of
as
the
sneaky
MVP,
and
this
came
to
me
by
way
of
actually
somebody
else
in
the
space.
So
when
I
built
that
first
product,
it
started
having
some
tracks
and
some
success
and
one
of
the
big
VC
people
in
the
in
that
space
and
actually
the
CEO
of
the
biggest
company
in
the
space
wanted
to
get
dinner.
AL
He
wanted
he
invited
my
my
co-founder
myself
to
dinner
and
started
asking
us
questions
like
our
pricing
strategy
and
personas,
and
how
do
we
get
to
an
MVP
and
other
things
like
that
and
we
kind
of
were
like
well,
we
just
kind
of
built
it
like
what
was
your
pricing
strip?
Well,
we
just
kind
of
chose
a
number,
and
you
know
we
didn't
have
really
great
answers.
I,
don't
think
he
was
very
impressed,
which
is
all
right,
but
he
you
know,
the
conversation
continues
et
cetera
and
they
was
like.
AL
Well,
let
me
let
me
tell
you
what
I
mean
by
like
a
better
MVP
and
he
described
this
to
it
and
it
was
create
a
landing
page
put
a
logo
on
it.
Have
the.
Why
who
it's
for
what
problem
it
solves
as
concisely
as
you
possibly
can
and
then
put
a
button
on
the
page
and
say
sign
up
now
and
maybe
put
even
like
sign
up
now
for
twenty
dollars
or
something
like
that
and
that's
it.
AL
You
have
that
page,
you
build
it
and
then
they
click
the
button
on
the
other
side,
it
says
awesome.
Thank
you
we're
in
our
closed
Alpha
right
now.
We
don't
have
our
beta,
but
we'll
be
in
touch
with
you
as
soon
as
we're
ready
to
release
and
that's
it.
That's
all
you
build,
and
that
is
the
MVP
and
at
the
time
when
I
heard
that
I
was
I
was
a
little
bit
outraged.
Absolutely
that's
ridiculous!
You're
lying
to
people!
You
shouldn't
do
that
sort
of
thing
and
I.
AL
Don't
think
that
is
the
path
for
technical
Founders,
but
I
share
that
as
an
example
of
something
that
is
I.
Think
a
challenge
like
as
we,
the
the
challenge
to
getting
an
MVP
is
creating
something
that
you
can
get
in
front
of
customers
as
quickly
as
possible,
or
potential
customers
as
quickly
as
possible
and
getting
their
feedback.
Is
this
actually
going
to
be
something
you
use
and
again,
as
technical
Founders?
AL
We're
often
you
know,
we
can
produce
things
quickly
and
well,
but
getting
them
in
front
of
people
is
where
we
really
struggle
and
that's
what
I'll
talk
about
next
there's
another
thing:
I'll
just
mention
the
idea
of
a
Lean
Startup.
So
there's
a
book
that
was
written
a
while
ago,
there's
actually
two
books
here
that
I
recommend
along
these
lines.
AL
For
those
of
you
into
books,
there's
also
an
actually
I
actually
pulled
these
numbers
last
night,
a
Lean
Startup
Meetup,
which
has
something
like
four
million
members
and
about
4
000
active
chapters
worldwide.
You
know
there's
no
guarantee
that
there's
an
active
chapter
anywhere
near
where
you
live,
but
if
you
again
are
a
technical,
founder
and
kind
of
thinking
about
how
do
you
get
out
there
and
how
you
actually
turn
this
into
a
sustaining
business?
AL
The
other
part
of
that
lots
of
features.
Few
customers,
frankly
is
marketing
and
marketing
is
something
again
that
many
Technical
co-founders
and
including
myself
do
not
understand.
Well.
This
is
just
super
super
common.
It's
like
this
weird
Voodoo
stuff.
It's
something
we're
vaguely
suspicious
about,
at
least
in
my
own
case.
I
certainly
was
I've
come
a
long
way
since
then
I've
realized
it's
absolutely
a
hundred
percent
necessary
for
you
to
actually
get
in
front
of
customers
to
be
better
at
communicating
with
folks,
and
so
it's
just
communication,
though
air
quotes
right.
AL
So
communication
is
something
that's
actually
quite
difficult
to
do
well
and
I.
Think
about
in
my
own
personal
life,
like
in
my
professional
life,
the
number
of
times
I
miscommunicated
about
something
that
I
think
I'm
communicating
pretty
clearly
about
is
like
it
happens,
a
lot
right,
I
think
I'm,
just
saying
things
really
clearly
to
people
who
had
have
lots
of
reason
to
trust
me
and
believe
me
and
think
I've.
AL
You
know
well
intended
et
cetera
and
that's
with
people
who
know
me
and
love
me
and
whatnot
communicating
with
strangers
even
harder
to
do
do
well
so
communication.
While
it's
simple,
it
is
definitely
not
easy
and
two
tools
that
I
would
recommend
for
any
technical
founder
who
wants
to
get
better
communicating
which
you
must
do
in
order
to
find
customers
are
a
messaging
framework
and
then
this
other
tool
as
well,
but
a
messaging
framework.
If
you
Google
up
on
messenger
framework,
I'm
actually
curious.
Does
anyone
here
ever
done?
AL
Use
build
created
a
messaging
framework
got
a
couple
for
oh
yeah.
All
right,
I
see
a
couple.
A
couple
couple
hands
in
the
back
there
messaging
Frameworks
are
one
of
my
favorite
tools
to
help
craft.
Your
message
they're,
very
simple:
if
you
Google
it,
they
all
look
a
little
bit
like
one
of
the
screenshot
I'm
showing
here
they
have
like
three
columns
some
rows
across
the
top
talk
about.
What's
your
value
proposition,
what
is
it
you're
trying
to
communicate?
How
do
you
support
that?
AL
Like
what
things
so
you
say,
you're
fast,
you
say:
you're
scalable,
you
say
you're
easy
to
use
like
prove
it
like.
What
are
the
things
that
actually
help?
You
demonstrate
this,
so
it's
really
super
and
there's
again
a
ton
of
you
know
again.
Google
it
read
three
blog
posts,
you'll
be
like
eighty
percent,
an
expert,
it's
great
another
exercise,
another
tool
that
I
found
super
helpful,
especially
at
the
second
Product
Company
I
was
a
part
of
was
an
exercise.
We
call
10,
30
or
130
10.
and
I.
AL
Don't
know
actually
where
to
attribute
this
to
I'm
sure
we
did
invent
it,
but
it
was
a
really
powerful
way
to
like
start
by
describing
the
thing
you're
doing
in
a
hundred
words
approximately
right.
So
what's
the
thing
you're
doing
what's
your
product?
What's
your
platform?
What's
your
tool,
do
you
describe
it?
What's
your
launch,
whatever
the
thing
is:
100
words,
okay
type
for
a
while
type
for
a
while
think,
good.
All
right
work
with
a
colleague
back
and
forth
awesome
get
to
100
pretty
good
words,
and
then
you
challenge
yourself.
AL
Okay,
all
right
now
we
trim
it
to
30..
Okay,
all
right
30
words,
gotta
trim
out
a
lot
of
stuff.
You
lose
some
of
the
granularity
lose
some
of
the
details.
You
have
to
start
summarizing.
You
have
to
start,
you
know
getting
all
right.
What's
the
important
thing
here
can't
have
all
of
this
stuff
get
you
know,
get
rid
of
a
bunch
and
then
that's
pretty
hard
process,
but
then
the
next
is
anybody
want
to
guess
how
many
words
all
right?
There
we
go
got
a
winner,
ten,
exactly
get
to
10
words
more
or
less.
AL
You
know
we
actively
filter,
as
human
beings
is
something
that
we
need
to
do
to
like
make
sense
of
the
world,
and
so,
if
you
take
too
long
to
explain
what
it
is,
you're
trying
to
do
or
why
it
might
be
useful
or
valuable,
You're,
simply
just
going
to
lose
the
chance
to
engage
with
that
person
over
time
and
as
I
was
walking
around
the
stage.
Actually
in
the
this
this
space
here
I
saw
this
on
the
floor.
The
build
something
users
want,
and
so
I
think.
AL
Well,
they
don't
understand
what
the
things
are
that
you're
building
and
why
they
might
be
valuable
and
so
figuring
out
a
way
to
communicate
the
features
you
do
have
and
then
listen
to
the.
What
people
are
telling
you
back
is
an
incredibly
important
part
of
making
it
through
the
gauntlet
and
finding
yourself
success
as
a
technical
founder
that
leads
to
change,
no
matter
how
good
your
idea
is,
how
good
your
execution
is.
AL
AL
So
I
recommend
that
if
you
are
starting
off
on
a
journey
of
figuring
out,
what
you
want
to
do
and
starting
an
organization
acknowledge
that
there
will
be
change
from
what
you
think
today,
but
take
some
time
to
write
down
some
really
important
things.
What
are
your
personal
motivations?
Why
are
you
personally
excited
about
this
thing?
What
are
the
goals?
What
what
what's
it
going
to
contribute
to
in
order
to
do?
What
right
are
you
trying
to
make
the
world
a
better
place?
Are
you
trying
to
get
rich?
AL
You
know
some
range
of
many
different
things
like
very
articulate
about
what
it
is.
You
are
trying
to
do
and
then
what
success
look
like
right
and
if
you
have
those
written
down,
you
will
be
surprised
by
how
often
that
helps
you
as
you
get
to
the
point
of
a
big
decision.
I
think
another
common
thing
for
technical
Founders
is
to
wonder:
is
it
time
to
Pivot?
Have
I
already
invested
too
much
what's
the
future,
and
is
this
really
any
good
at
all?
AL
So
with
that
I'll
close
out
just
a
few
pieces
of
advice
to
technical
founders,
so
self-doubt
is
normal.
Like
there
were
a
few
technical
Founders
to
raise
their
hands.
Shyly
said:
hey
I'm,
a
technical
founder.
If
anybody's
really
like
do
any
of
you
as
technical
Founders,
wonder
if
you're
still
good
at
anything,
if
you
want
a
fleeting
hand,
see
a
fleeting
hand.
Oh
yeah,
there's
a
bold
hand.
AL
Yes,
yeah
yeah,
okay,
that's
normal
right,
because
you
you've
done
the
part
that
you
know
how
to
do
well
and
now
you
have
to
learn
all
of
this
other
stuff
and
it's
really
hard
communicating
building
marketing
plans,
building
business
plans
Etc.
It
is
super
super
normal
for
technical
Founders
to
get
you
know
over
the
Euphoria
of
having
built
something
and
then
I'm,
not
sure,
I'm,
any
good
at
all.
You
are
by
virtue
of
like
having
pushed
through
it.
You
are,
let
me
just
you
know,
please.
AL
If
you
continue
to
follow
your
passion,
it
will
fuel
you
and
your
team.
It's
a
very
powerful
thing.
So
continue
to
talk
about
that.
If
you're
by
yourself
remember
it
remember
why
you're
doing
this
and
if
you're
working
with
teammates
as
well,
communicating
clearly
with
the
people
who
are
working
with
you
about
what
your
passion
is
and
why
that's
important
is
a
really
powerful
success.
Predictor
and
the
last
thing
I'll
say
is
bias
towards
action.
Plans
will
never
ever
be
perfect.
AL
You
they
are
helpful
that
you
know
have
a
business
plan
have
other
things
like
that.
But
if
you,
if
you're
not
sure
don't
go,
another
meeting
might
not
be
the
answer
right,
it
might
be.
Do
something
so
bias
toward
action
whenever
you
can
and
that's
it
that's
what
I
wanted
to
share.
It
was
15
minutes,
there's
not
a
lot
of
time
to
help
people
but
I'm
curious.
So
my
goal
was
to
hopefully
help
some
technical,
Founders
or
teammates
of
technical
founders
did
I
Anybody
Got
Hand.
Who
do
we
got
something?
Oh
ho
ho?