►
From YouTube: NEARCON 2022 | Layer 1 Stage - Day 3
Description
Check out all the talks of #NEARCON Layer 1 Stage - Day 3 with the timestamps below 🔽
0:00 Beginning
11:08 - USDC Rising: A Fireside Chat with Circle | Jeremy Allaire - Circle, Marieke Flament - NEAR Foundation
32:53 - The Stablecoin Tradeoff: Decentralization vs. Mass Adoption | Mark Sugden - Decentral Bank, Emily Parker - CoinDesk, and Joao Reginatto - Circle
1:05:27 - Crypto Native vs. Fintechs for the Future of Payments | Jess Houlgrave - Checkout.com, Joe Spano - Ready Layer One, Ivan Ilin - NearPay, Elena Shiltseva - Roketo
1:32:36 - The Meaning of Settlement Layers | James Prestwich - Nomad
2:22:55 - Why We're Backing the ReFi Movement | Jared Thompson - Ready Layer One, Marc Johnson - Protocol Labs, Bianca Lopes - Rooh Ventures, Emiliano Gutierrez - RAIZ, Fred Fournier - Open Forest Protocol
2:52:24 - Integrating Web3 into the Future of Fandom with SailGP and Oracle | Warren Jones - SailGP, Amr Elrawi - Oracle, Chris Ghent - NEAR Foundation
3:20:30 - How DAOs Get Work Done | Stanley He - CornerstoneDAO, Jordan Gray - AstroDAO, Dani Osorio - MetaWeb Ventures, and Adrian Bello - The Kin DAO & Primordia DAO
3:49:07 - TradFi Goes Crypto: Institutional Adoption in a Winter | Olivier Dang - Nomura, Lyllah Ledesma - CoinDesk, Cory Pugh - BridgeTower Capital, Jeff Lavoie - Open Web Collective
4:18:12 - Governing in a Winter | Jeff Amico - a16z, Jack Collier - NEAR Foundation | MC: Ayoung Jeon
4:38:55 - Keeping Web3's Privacy Promise: The Legal Perspective | Joon Kim - Mina Foundation, Mary Beth Buchanan - Cardano Foundation Board of Directors, Tuongvy Le - Bain Capital Crypto, Julien Nivot - Ledger, Mya Shofany - NEAR Foundation, Birgitte Andersen - Big Innovation Centre
5:27:11 - Evolving NEAR Ecosystem Governance | Illia Polosukhin - NEAR Protocol, Henry Tafolla - Cheddar | MC: Ayoung Jeon
5:50:58 Highlight Reel
5:52:00 Goodbye see you at NEARCON 2023 | Marieke Flament - NEAR Foundation, Illia Polosukhin - NEAR Protocol
Join NEAR's community:
Website: https://near.org/
Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/nearprotocol/
Discord: https://near.chat/
Medium: https://medium.com/nearprotocol
Blog: https://near.org/blog/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/NEARProtocol
GitHub: https://github.com/near https://github.com/nearprotocol
Dev Docs: https://docs.near.org/
Create a wallet: https://wallet.near.org/create
Apps on NEAR: https://awesomenear.com/
Learn to Build On NEAR: https://www.near.university/
Grants & Funding: https://near.org/grants/ (edited)
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A
C
Well,
if
you
did
you're,
probably
not
here,
look
thank
you
so
much
for
battling
through
the
past
two
incredible
days
of
neocon.
We've
got
one
day
left
and
then
you're
free
to
party
and
enjoy
lisbon.
We've
got
a
wonderful
pre-recorded
panel
right
now
entitled
usdc
rising
a
fireside
chat
with
circle.
We
have
marie
flament,
who
you
all
know
and
love
from
the
near
foundation
and
jeremy
alaire
from
circle.
So
let's
give
it
up.
D
E
Yeah
well,
first
of
all,
it's
it's
great
to
be
here
and
great
to
be
able
to
participate
in
near
con
and
great
to
see
you
again
and
I'm
really
really
happy
to
do
this.
Yeah,
I
mean
it's,
it's
a
really
interesting
time.
I
think
you
know
what
with
usdc,
specifically
and
and
then
more
broadly,
obviously,
there's
a
lot
going
on,
but
you
know
I
think
usdc
has
has
benefited
from.
E
E
We
see
thousands
of
companies
who
are
using
this
because
they
have
people
who
either
want
to
pay
them
or
they
want
to
pay
in
different
parts
of
the
world,
and
so
you
know
we
we
wanted
to.
You
know
see
something
that
it
was
used
as
a
kind
of
everyday
working
capital
for
for
more
and
more,
you
know
more
and
more
both
households
and
firms
and
we're
starting
to
see
that
and
starting
to
see
those
use,
cases
really
grow.
D
That's
amazing,
and
it
seems
that
really
the
the
key
driver,
what
you
described
also
like
mainly
for
payments
actually,
and
we
do
see
that
for
payment
stable
coins
are
in
indeed
in
particular
like
perfect
as
a
use
case,
I
think
there
was
even
like
a
tweet
saying
that
50
of
strike
payments
could
be
coming
and
settled
with
usdc
in
10
years,
which
you
know
would
be
absolutely
fantastic
to
see.
But
where
do
you
see
actually
future
trends
like
in
the
next
decade
or
stable
coins?
In
particular?
What
are
the
trends?
According
to
you.
E
Well,
you
know
it's
it's
interesting,
it'd
be
sort
of
like
asking
you
know
in
in,
I
don't
know,
say:
2007
or
2008.
You
know
what
are
going
to
be
the
trends
in
mobile
apps
in
the
next.
You
know
10
years,
and
you
know
you
could
predict
a
lot
of
things,
but
you
couldn't
actually
predict
all
the
innovation
that
was
going
to
happen.
We
had
just
started
to
see
kind
of
product
market
fit
with
the
iphone.
E
You
know,
3g
happened
at
least
broadly
around
2008
and
the
capabilities
of
that
technology
opened
up
developer
creativity
on
a
massive
scale
and
millions
of
developers
invented
all
kinds
of
things
which
are
changed,
our
lives
and
improved.
So
many
different,
different
things
and
I
think
about
kind
of
programmable
money
on
the
internet.
E
The
same
way,
it's
taken
us
almost
10
years,
we're
I'm
nine
years
into
circle
now,
but
almost
10
years
to
get
to
the
point
where
we
actually
have
a
representation
of
fiat
as
a
cryptocurrency
as
a
digital
currency,
and
you
have
blockchains
that
are
finally
getting
to
a
point
where
you
have
high
throughput
efficiency
security.
You
know
you're
really
starting
to
see
the
infrastructure
layer
get
to
a
point
where
wow
developers
really
can
build
compelling
apps,
and
now
we
have
this
material
to
work
with.
You
know,
you've
got
the
programmable.
E
You
know
your
programmable
dollars
or
euros
or
what?
What
have
you
and
you
have
these?
You
know
kind
of
new
operating
systems
in
a
sense
that
people
can
build
with
and
and
so
whenever.
I
get
asked
that
what
do
I
think
is
going
to
happen
in
10
years,
I'm
sort
of
like.
I
have
no
idea,
and
that's
actually
that's
actually
a
good
thing.
E
So
the
way
I
I
often
talk
about
it
is,
you
know
when
the
movement
of
text-based
information
or
asynchronous
text,
information
kind
of
moved
to
widely
available
devices
on
the
internet.
The
amount
of
textual
information
that
was
put
published
in
the
world
like
went
up
like
a
million
x
or
gazillions
right
and,
as
you
know,
you
know,
you
know
open
protocols
for
audio
and
video
communications,
peer-to-peer
got
reliable
and
we
had
mobile
broadband
and
so
on,
like
the
amount
of
of
like
voice
and
video
communication.
E
Just
went
up
exponentially
and
again
when
you
have
money
as
a
native
data
type
of
the
internet-
and
you
have
you
know,
kind
of
internet
scale.
Blockchains,
like
the
amount
of
value
exchange,
I
think,
is
going
to
go
up
just
extraordinarily
large
and
and
there'll
be.
I
mean
use
cases
that
get
built
that
we
haven't
thought
of
yet,
and
so
I'm
particularly
excited
about
the
ways
in
which
money
and
commerce
and
labor
and
like
the
essence
of
what
it
is
to
operate
as
a
as
a
firm
can
work.
E
E
In
those
terms,
I
I
just
think,
like
you
think
about
like
what
an
alibaba
or
an
amazon
marketplace
did
for
the
coordination
of
people
who
have
things
that
they
want
to
sell
and
people
want
to
buy
them,
and
just
these
mass
like
new
kinds
of
platforms,
just
think
about
marketplaces
for
capital
and
and
and
the
long
tail
possibilities
of
that
and
really
what
what
could?
What
could
become
possible
in
terms
of
how
you
know,
credit
and
money
serve
people
who
are
operating
businesses
over
the
internet.
E
So
I
this
maybe
ties
back
to
the
stripe
comment,
which
is
you
know
they
talk
about
the
jeep
growing,
the
gdp
of
the
internet,
which
I
can
it
kind
of
resonates
with
me.
I
I.
I
really
think
that
if
you
really
want
to
grow
the
gdp
of
the
internet,
you
need
the
internet
economy
to
actually
be
natively
powered
by
digital
assets
and
digital
currency.
D
Yeah
fascinating
and
I
think
actually,
if
we
talk
more
about
digital
assets
and
maybe
coming
back
closer
to
you
know,
stable
coin
and
how
banks
and
central
banks
around
the
globe
are
thinking
about
things,
one
big
debate.
At
least
it
feels
like
that
at
the
moment
there's
you
know:
differences
between
stable
coins
and
cbdc,
and
I'm
just
curious
to
hear
how
you
think
about
that
right,
because
in
your
role
also
at
circle,
you
interact
quite
a
lot
with
you
know,
governments
and
how
governments
are
approaching.
D
E
E
I
want
to
see
rapid
iteration
that
you
know
enables
you
know
anyone
anywhere
to
kind
of
put
these
pieces
together,
and
so
it's
a
vision
of
of
money
and
of
of
the
financial
and
economic
system.
That
looks
a
lot
more
like
the
software-powered
internet
and
I
think-
and
I
think
that's
you
know
we're
not
alone
in
that
right
I
mean.
E
E
I
don't
know
that
that
really
represents
much
of
anything
and,
and
so
I'm
highly
skeptical
of
that,
you
know
that
that
track
and
and
so
kind
of
coming
back
I
mean
who
knows
right
there,
things
can
happen,
people
build
things,
but
I'm
always
going
to
take
a
bet
on
the
open
internet
and
what
the
open
internet
is.
Delivering
and
open
software
is
delivering
and
I'll
take
that
bet
all
day
long
and
it
it's
not.
E
I
I
don't
want
to
paint
the
world
as
a
kind
of
unit
dimensional
or
there's
only
one
thing
that
can
happen
like
clearly
there
could
be
many
things
that
happen.
I
mean
you
know
in
china
like.
I
think
there
are
some
people
who
might
use
the
e
c
and
y
to
pay
for
bus
tickets,
but
most
people
are
quite
happy
to
use
alipay
and
and
10
cent
and
wechat
pay
and
those
are
like
the
dominant
methods
of
electronic
money.
E
Now
the
government
would
like
there
to
be
a
non,
a
a
a
third
way
or
a
government
available
way
so
that
they
limit
private
power
and
so
there's
sort
of
a
battle
between
these
big,
powerful
private
companies
and
the
government
over
that,
and
who
knows
how
that
will
play
out.
But
I
don't
think
that's
necessarily
something
that
we
in
the
west
should
be
modeling
ourselves
on,
and
I
think
you
know
the
the
values
of
open
innovation,
open,
intellectual
property,
privacy,
security,
innovation.
D
And-
and
can
I
actually
bounce
on
that,
so
you
talk
a
lot
about
the
open
internet
and
this
view
that
actually
it's
it's-
you
know
it's
it's
basically
inclusive
and
anyone
anywhere
can
participate
on
that
and
at
the
same
time,
you
also
mentioned
like
the
need
for
regulation,
in
particular
when
it's
things
that
are
very
close
to
cash.
How
do
you
reconcile,
like
you,
know
centralization
decentralization
and
the
partying
that
we're
starting
to
see
between
both
worlds.
E
E
There
may
be
people
who
are
very
anchored
on
one,
which
is
like
completely
totally
decentralized
money.
That
is
completely
you
know,
theoretically
at
least
free
of
government
interference-
and
you
know
or
or
has
non-sovereign
monetary
policy
like
bitcoin,
is,
as
an
example
of
that-
and
I
think,
there's
a
very
compelling
use
case
for
that.
On
the
other
end
right,
you
can
have
like
tightly
controlled
completely
locked
down
government-run
government-surveilled
infrastructure
like
the
chinese
project,
as
I
was
just
talking
about.
E
E
But
I
think
over
time
you
can
definitely
see
a
migration
towards
you
know
the
the
use
of
non-sovereign
digital
currencies
and-
and
I
am
a
long-term
believer
in
that-
but
I
think
right
now
you
know,
I
think,
we'll
see
kind
of
these
major
reserve
currencies
get
kind
of
connected
up
to
public
blockchains
through
private
sector
innovation,
open
source
innovation,
open
ecosystem
innovation
and
that'll
unlock
a
lot
that
I
think
that
can
unlock
a
huge
amount
of
value
for
the
internet
economy,
for
the
real
economy,
etc.
Yeah.
D
So
it's
a
really
hybrid
model
and
this
idea
that
we're
in
a
transition
so
to
approach
thing
also
with
pragmatism,
while
it's
like
a
longer
road
on
which
we're
getting
one
thing
actually
and
if
I
change
stacks
a
little
bit
so
the
theme
at
near
con
is
actually
building
beyond
the
hype
and
you've
been
several
very
successful.
Companies
and,
more
importantly,
actually,
you've
survived
and
not
even
survived
the
bear
market.
D
You've
actually
strived
in
a
bear
market,
and
I
just
wondered
you
know
if
you
have
any
tips
for
you
know
all
the
people
who
are
going
to
attend
actually
near
con
and
who
are
here
to
to
learn
right.
What
would
you
say
and
actually
what
does
building
beyond
the
hype
mean
to
you
and
what
tips
would
you
have
into
actually
building
and
continuously
building
during
a
crypto
winter.
E
E
E
These
hype
cycles
are
out
of
control
and,
like
you
just
start
trying
to
like
adapt
to
whatever
meme
is
out
there
and-
and
I
think
that's
that's
like
an
awful
place
to
be
as
as
a
founder-
and
I
think
you
know
right
now
is
actually
a
really
special
time,
because,
unlike
the
past,
the
last
I
should
say
crypto
winter
yeah.
There
were
a
lot
of
amazing
things
born
out
of
that
right.
D5
was
born
out
of
that.
Broadly
speaking,
I
remember
we.
E
We
launched
usdc
right
into
the
heart
of
the
crypto
winter
in
the
late
fall
of
2018
and
like
we
were
working
with
compound
and
ave,
and
you
know
all
of
the
early
d5
projects,
maker
and
and
and
but
now
like
the
infrastructure
is
so
much
better
right.
You've
got
third
generation
blockchains
like
near
and
and
and
you've
got
like
consumer
apps.
You've
got
a
lot
more
clarity
legally
around
the
world.
It
gives
there's
so
much
like
way
way
better
environment
now,
and
so
now
you
know
you
can
be
focused,
you
can
focus
on.
E
You
know,
building
things
that
have
like
real
utility,
and
so
I
I
feel
like
it's
an
excellent
time
in
terms
of
the
materials
that
we
have
to
work
with
the
best
we've
ever
had
so
far,
and-
and
you
know,
I
think,
kind
of
getting
getting
rid
of
a
lot
of
the
noise
and
hype
like
helps.
People
focus
so
it
can
be,
can
be
a
really
excellent
time
for
people
to
be
building.
D
E
That's
a
great
question:
well,
what
I
can
say
is
you
know
we're
really
impressed
with
with
nir
and
and
and
with
what
what
what
the
community
has
been
building
and
evolving,
and
I
I
think
I
talk
a
lot
about
third
generation
blockchains
and
and
use
near
as
an
example.
So
we're
excited
about
the
progress.
That's
that's
been
made
and
you
know
yeah.
We.
We
continue
to
bring
usdc
to
more
chains
and
you
know
we'll
we'll
see
what
happens
there.
D
C
Wow,
what
a
brilliant
piece
right,
I'm
feeling
the
energy
is
a
little
bit
lower,
which
is
understandable
because
I'm
hungover
too,
but
we
have
an
incredible
panel.
Next
they're
gonna
impact
some
really
really
big
ideas
about
the
stable
coin
trade-off.
Is
it
decentralization
versus
mass
adoption?
We've
got
mark
sugden
from
d,
central
bank,
zhao
reginator
from
circle
and
the
wonderful
moderator,
emily
parker.
F
Hi,
everyone
welcome
so
yeah
more
stable
coins.
This
is
obviously
a
very
timely
topic
right
now
with
south
korean
officials
looking
to
arrest
dokuan,
which
we
can
talk
about
briefly,
but
basically
what
we're
going
to
get
into
on
this
panel
is
just
some
of
the
philosophies
behind
stable
coins,
centralized
versus
decentralized
and
also
touch
a
little
bit
on
central
bank
digital
currencies
that
are
issued
by
governments.
But
why
don't
we
just
quickly
start
super
quick
intro.
F
G
F
I
F
J
Hey
emily,
hey
everyone
thanks
for
having
me
over
at
video,
so
so
I
I
lead
the
the
stablecoin
product
teams
for
circle,
as
you
guys
have
seen
from
jeremy.
I
don't
think
we
need
an
explanation
further
than
that,
but
we
we
issued
two
stable
coins
today,
ussc,
which
is
the
second
largest
dollar
back
stable
coin
in
the
world
and
in
europe,
which
is
the
the
third
largest
already
euro
back
stable
coin
in
the
world
and
all
of
our
staple
coins.
They
follow
the
same
principle.
They
follow
the
same
design.
J
I
led
the
build
out
of
usc
first
soco
back
in
2017-18
and
and
the
design
that
we
chose
back
then,
is
still
the
design
that
we
believe
is
foundational
for
ecosystems
for
for
there
to
exist,
and
it's
definitely
a
design
that
involves
an
element
of
centralization.
I
mean
we,
we
use
a
mechanism
that
involves
off-chain
collateral.
J
We
opt
for
you
know
this
very
simple
mechanism
that,
for
the
issuance
of
every
token
on
chain
requires
you
know
one
equivalent
amount
of
fiat
money
on
a
reserve
and
and
the
the
management
of
the
reserve
requires.
You
know
licensing
in
most
jurisdictions
around
the
world,
it's
usually
qualified
in
a
very
known
way,
and
it
requires
a
an
entity
to
manage
that
that
reserve
right
and
so
that
element
of
the
design
has
no
way
to
be
decentralized.
F
Got
it
and
I'm
just
curious,
if
you
have
any
thoughts
on
that,
I
mean
I
obviously
you
created
this
or
well,
you
you're
part
of
this
project
that
has
decentralization
in
the
name.
I
mean:
what
do
you
think
about
the
concept
of
centralized
stable
coins?
Do
you
think
that
that
they're
problematic
in
any
way,
because
clearly
you're
positioning
yourself
against
those.
H
F
I
don't
know
if
you
have
any
response
to
that.
I
mean
that's
sort
of
a
little
bit
of
a
critique
of
the
centralized
model
of
stable
coins,
which
is
basically
like
it's
kind
of
the
old
system
by
a
different
name.
You
know
that's
something
that
you
hear
a
lot.
I
don't
know
how
you
would
respond
to
that.
J
No,
I
don't
think
that
is
antagonistic
to
the
vision
that
we
we
have
for
the
world
right.
We
actually
have
always
been
super
interested
in
in.
In
the
you
know,
decentralized
designs,
algorithmic
designs,
we
just
haven't,
found
a
design
or
a
particular
solution
for
a
lot
of
the
challenges
that
that
exist
in
that
space,
but.
J
I
think
we
need
we
have
always
believed,
and-
and
this
has
been
on
the
journey
that
we
have
had
as
a
company
way
back
in
the
day
from
from
2013
2014,
we,
we
were
always
as
a
company
looking
for
a
better
substrate
to
to
build
new
financial
services
on
top
of
blockchain
technology,
and
we
we
attempted
to
do
that.
Over
bitcoin
I
mean
we
had
the
peer-to-peer
payments
product
that
operated
across
many
jurisdictions
and
eddie
used
bitcoin
for
settlement
that
clearly
didn't
work
over
time.
J
Bitcoin
is
not
suited
for
for
that
kind
of
use
case.
We
attempted
solutions
like
building
our
own
settlement
token
over
the
ethereum
blockchain
when
when
a
theorem
emerged,
and
then
we
just
realized
for
ourselves
that
I
think
what
the
world
needs
at
this
stage
with
the
technology
that
we
have
with
the
promise
of
the
technology
that
we
have
is
the
ability
to
to
really
digitize
fiat
money
right.
There's
there's
a
tremendous.
J
In
doing
that,
so
I
don't
discount
that
evolution.
I
agree
it's
more
more
of
an
evolutionary
model,
but
I
think
there's
so
much
that
developers
can
do
when
you
digitize
the
concept
of
fiat
money
and
and
have
it
all
of
a
sudden
cross-border
super
easily.
You
know
be
programmatically
composable,
so
I
think
there's
a
phenomenal
amount
of
innovation
that
can
come
from
the
existence
of
these
centralized
models
with
all
the
with
all
the
limitations
that
they
have
for
sure.
F
Okay,
so
I
want
to
kind
of
zoom
out
a
little
bit
from
like
your
two
projects
and
just
talk
about
the
larger,
stable
coin
landscape
because
it's
become
such
a
hot
topic
and
you
know
I
think,
in
the
united
states,
for
example,
probably
the
first
comprehensive
regulations
we
see
will
probably
be
in
the
stable
coin
area.
I
I
think
a
lot
of
people
feel
that
stable
coins
are
the
next
shoe
to
drop.
You
know
if,
like
there's
another
crypto
crisis,
it
would
probably
be
started
by
a
stable
coin.
F
I'm,
let's
just
say
one
major,
stable
coin-
that
we
don't
need.
You
know,
can
remain
nameless
out
here.
I
think
a
lot
of
people
are
concerned
about
the
collapse
of
another
stablecoin.
So,
let's
just
start
with,
let's
start
with
ust,
for
example,
since
that's
in
the
news
we
have
dokwa
now
you
know
he's
looking
to
be
arrested.
I'm
curious
what
you
guys
think
like
what
exactly
went
wrong
with
ust.
What
was
the
problem?
There
I
mean:
do
you
think
it
was?
You
know
doe
quan
himself?
Was
it
the
technology
I
mean?
F
Is
there
a
model
out
there
for
an
algorithmic?
Stable
coin
that
could
succeed
because
algorithmic
stable
coins,
like
nobody,
really
knows
how
to
regulate
them.
You
know
nobody
really
knows
what
to
do
with
them.
So
I'm
curious
like
what
you
see
as
what
went
wrong
there,
because
people
were
really
excited
about
that
until
it
collapsed
and
yeah.
Let's
start
with
you,.
H
I
think
it's
a
combination
of
doke
one
putting
a
target
on
his
back.
By
being
so
vocal,
he
basically
challenged
the
sec
and
the
likes
of
that
to
go
after
him.
People
want
to
cut
a
tall
poppy
down.
He
was
obviously
quite
successful,
making
a
lot
of
money
quickly,
and
you
know
maybe
the
man
who
flew
too
close
to
the
sun
a
little
bit.
He
came
crashing
down
very
quickly,
so
combination
of
that,
as
well
as
their
phenomenal
growth
right.
H
The
timing
of
I
guess
the
crypto
bull
market
and
the
model
of
lunar
and
terror,
where
you've
got
this
asset,
with
no
inflation
schedule
that
you
keep
on
buying
and
you
burn
it
to
mint
a
stable
coin.
It's
just
the
cycle
of
the
ponzi
keeps
on
going
right
and
as
far
as
we're
concerned
around
creating
a
decentralized
stablecoin,
I
mean
without
being
too
cynical.
H
It
happened
at
the
perfect
time
for
us
because
we're
kind
of
looking
at
an
algorithmic
model
to
start
off
with,
but
terra,
fortunately
for
us,
unfortunately,
for
a
lot
of
people
created
the
perfect
playbook
of
what
not
to
do
you
know.
These
are
the
traps
you
need
to
avoid
grow
slowly
organically.
Make
sure
that
you
have
those
treasury
management
processes
in
place.
So
when
it
comes
time
to
redeem
that
stablecoin,
your
users
will
always
be
able
to
make
be
made
whole.
That's
the
most
important
thing
right.
H
If
you
are
using
any
asset,
they
need
to
have
the
the
confidence
and
security
that
they'll
be
able
to
redeem
it
for
a
dollar
value
later
down
the
line
right.
So
a
combination
of
them
growing
too
fast
dope,
one
going
and
we
are
so
early-
it's
a
meme,
but
we're
so
so
early,
and
I
would
never
ever
say
that
an
algorithmic
stablecoin,
won't
mer
won't
work
because
the
people
here
today
and
within
our
industry
whole
extremely
intelligent
and
we're
constantly
innovating
changing
things
working
out
models.
H
F
Yeah
I
mean,
I
think
the
ust
thing
was
interesting
because
it
was
like
people
thought
it
was
the
most
brilliant
idea
in
the
world
until
it
just
wasn't.
You
know
it
and
it
just
sort
of
collapsed,
and
I
think
what
your
point
about
you
know
do
kwan
flying
too
close
to
the
sun.
There's
definitely
an
element
of
that
in
terms
of
like
now
him
being
in
the
crosshairs
of
authorities,
but
that
doesn't
quite
explain
the
sort
of
like
technological
meltdown
and
financial
meltdown.
So
I
don't
know
joe
I'm
curious
what
you
think.
F
I
mean
what
what
went
wrong
with
ust,
it's
obviously
easier
to
say
in
hindsight,
but
you
know,
and
also
like,
was
it
even
decentralized?
I
think
that's
a
controversial
point
right.
I
mean
they
presented
themselves
as
a
decentralized
stablecoin,
but
like
was
it
it
was.
You
know
I
mean.
Is
that
even
a
fair
assessment.
J
Yeah
there
are
several
things
to
unpack
there.
I
I,
I
don't
believe
it
was
completely
decentralized.
I
think
there
were
several
several
elements
of
their
model
that
were
completely
centralized
right,
but
I
think,
but
I
think,
to
stick
to
some
of
the
things
that
you
said
from
a
technological
point
of
view,
and-
and
I
agree
with
what
was
said
earlier-
I
think
part
of
the
problem
was
the
the
environment
that
was
created
around
usd
and
and
how
and
how
aggressive
it
was.
J
I
mean
quite
frankly,
I
am
somebody
you
know
who
lives
in
crypto
I
live
on
twitter.
I
admit
some
of
my
opinions
over
there
people
like
me,
I
was
afraid
of
admitting
my
opinions
on
ust
and
ontario
on
twitter,
because
people
are
actually
harassing
anyone
who
had
any
opinion
against
it.
Right
and
I'll
be
frank
internally
at
circo
we
have
very
smart
people,
just
as
with
a
lot
of
other
companies
in
the
space.
J
There
was
a
lot
of
people
who
were
calling
this
way
before
it
happened
because
from
a
technology
point
of
view,
the
solution
had
this
idea
of
this
endogenous
relationship
between
the
dollar
token
and
the
native
token
right
and-
and
there
are
problems
with
that
solution
like
it's
quite
obvious,
when
you
model
it
out,
it
can
work
on
a
bold
run.
It
can
work
when
there
is
demand
for
the
native
token,
but
all
you
need
to
do
is
to
think
about.
Oh
what?
If
what?
J
If
all
of
a
sudden
there
is
zero
demand
for
the
native
token
and
a
lot
of
people
would
be,
as
I
said,
aggressive
and
challenge
that
idea
and
say
and
say,
there
will
never
be
zero
demand
for
the
native
token.
Well,
guess
what
we
all
learned
that
it
can
happen
and
when
it
happens,
then,
then
the
solution,
unwanted,
like
pretty
pretty
fantastically
in
a
matter
of
hours
right.
J
So
I
think
that
solution
does
not
work
and
it,
and
it
has
to
have
different
elements
of
that
solution
for
for
that
pair
of
endogenous
tokens
to
work,
because
otherwise
they
work
on
the
spiral
way
up
and
they
and
they
have
an
ability
to
have
a
velocity
of
growth.
That
is
quite
tremendous,
and
that
was
phenomenal
to
see
how
doe
executed
and
the
team
executed
on
that.
J
But
it
can
be
just,
as
you
know,
has
the
same
tremendous
amount
of
speed
on
the
way
down
and
so
from
a
technology
point
of
view,
there
was
a
there
was
a
clear
flaw
on
that
design.
I
think
a
lot
of
people
call
that
out
nick
carter,
you
know
several.
Several
people
called
it
out
that
design
flaw,
but
they
were
aggressively
challenged
right,
and
that
is
something
that
I
think
we
as
an
ecosystem
need
to
make
sure
that
doesn't
happen
again,
because
it's
not
in
interest
of
anyone.
J
F
I
love
that
you
brought
up
that
point.
I
think
that's
such
an
important
point.
It
was
such
a
key
problem
with
ust
and
I
I'm
not
totally
sure
that
the
crypto
world
has
learned
the
lesson.
You
know
it
basically
you're
right.
There
were
people
very
early
on
putting
out
warning
signs,
raising
red
flags
and
they
got
attacked
on
social
media
and
then
followers
would
pile
on,
and
you
know
not
the
reason
why
this
is
dangerous
is
that
it
definitely
dampened
debate.
You
know,
and
I
don't
I
don't
think
this
is
unique
to
ust.
F
I
think
this
happens
in
crypto
quite
a
lot
and
I
think
it's
really
critical
that
you
know
the
the
industry
does
something
about
this,
because
otherwise
the
regulators
are
just
going
to
come
in
and
sort
it
out
right
if
we
can't
to
some
degree
like
police
ourselves
and
have
like
an
open
conversation
because
you're
right
people
are
getting
shouted
down,
not
even
just
for
criticizing
ust,
but
for
just
raising
questions
about
ust.
You
know.
F
So
I'm
really
glad
you
brought
up
that
point
because
I
I
don't
think
I'm
not
sure
people
have
learned
that
that
lesson.
I
want
to
sort
of
get
into
the
other
sort
of
elephant
in
the
room
which
is
tether.
Tether
is
also,
you
know,
pretty
controversial.
I
think
that
there
are
some
people
out
there
that
feel
that
tether
will
be
the
next
domino
to
fall.
You
know,
there's
there's
controversy
around,
you
know
how
transparent
tether
is,
and
just
because
tether
is
so
dominant.
F
You
know
were
something
to
go
wrong
in
tether.
It
would
just
have
such
a
ripple
effect
throughout
the
entire
crypto
world.
So
I'm
curious
like
what
you
guys
think
about
that
I
mean
is:
should
we
be
worried
about
tether
because
some
people
definitely
are
and
I'm
curious,
if
you
are,
do
you
want
to
start.
H
Yeah
I'll
go
absolutely
not
no
worry
from
our
point
of
view
when
it
comes
to
tether,
they
handled
was
about
four
billion
in
redemptions.
In
the
space
of
you
know,
five
six
days
when
the
market
went
down
and
there's
not
a
trad
fire
institute
in
the
world
that
could
handle
that
many
redemptions
in
that
short
amount
of
time,
without
closing
their
doors
and
creating
a
systemic,
wide
financial
issue.
H
So
there's
always
going
to
be
people
that
speculate,
that
about
their
treasury
and
reserve
funds
and
whether
they're
wise
to
hold
commercial
papers
and
all
those
kind
of
things.
I
think
they're
making
moves
to
be
a
bit
more
transparent
because,
like
you
mentioned
earlier,
the
us
and
other
markets
are
seriously
looking
at
at
stablecoin
regulations
and
that
transparency
and
the
ability
to
be
audited
and
show
those
details
are
absolutely
going
to
be
paramount
for
being
able
to
continue
to
using
these
assets
to
transfer
value.
H
But
I
think
there
are
elements
within
the
industry
that
take
advantage
of
the
unregulated
markets.
Maybe
take
very
public
short
positions,
perpetuate
the
fud
and
maybe
take
a
silent
spot
position
because
it
always
bounces
back
tether.
Always
bounces
back.
Why
is
that
you
know,
I
think,
because
they're
a
very
solid
project,
so
very
solid
team,
with
a
lot
of
people
that
trusted
and
use
it.
F
Sure,
what's
your
thought
and
also
like
I
mean
how
does
I
I
mean?
Obviously,
people
in
the
crypto
world
know
the
difference
between
usdc
and
usdt,
but
I
don't
know
if
the
outside
world
really
does
right.
These
are
just
two.
You
know
big
stable
coins
that
have
the
same
three
letters.
You
know
in
their
name.
You
know
like
like
how
how
do
you
guys
posit
like
what
what
do
you?
What
is
your
comparative
advantage
like?
How
do
you
distinguish
yourselves
from
from
tether.
J
Yeah,
I
think
it's
it's
in
several
ways
right,
I
think
we
we
have
always
imagine
that
a
product
like
this.
If
it's
dealing
with
the
dollar,
then
it
needs
to
be
based
out
of
the
us
and
it
needs
to
be
regulated
out
of
the
us
as
an
instrument
right
and
we
we
have
never
even
considered
the
option
of
following
a
different
path,
because
I
think
I
think
that
is
at
risk
in
and
of
itself
right,
if
you,
if
you
choose
to
arbitrate
jurisdictions
or
gray
areas
or
or
regulation,
eventually,.
J
Up
to
you,
like,
I
think
it's
an
opportunity
that
that
a
lot
of
people
have
explored
in
crypto,
but
I
think
eventually
it
will
catch
up
with
with
all
of
us.
So
we
have
always
opted
for
this
model
where
you
know
we
issue
a
digital
dollar
asset.
We
should
do
that
with
regulated
banking
partners
out
of
the
us,
and
we
should
do
that
in
a
way.
J
That's
regulated
in
conjunction
with
how
with
how
several
different
regulators
in
the
u.s
would
understand,
and
that's
the
way
that
we
have
constructed
ussc
and
that's
the
way
they
will
continue
to
construct
all
of
our
other
assets.
I
think
the
other,
but
that's
that's
not
necessarily
a
a
differentiator
right.
I
think
I
think
that's
more.
That's
more
table
sticks
as
how
we
see
it.
J
The
the
differentiation
I
think
on
our
side
is
then
how
we
look
at
the
the
risk
of
an
asset
like
this
and
how
we
look
at
the
quality
properties
right,
and
I
think
I
think,
yeah
it's
interesting
tether
you
know
did
actually
redeem
all
of
that
all
that
money
when
when,
when
there
was
that
that
you
know
bottom
part
of
the
bear
market
when
usd
collapsed,
but
but
just
for
comparison
right,
we
invariably
redeem
four
to
five
billion
dollars
of
usc
every
week.
That
is
not
it's!
J
J
It's
surprising
that
people
use
that
as
a
as
a
as
a
selling
point
for
a
stable
coin,
guess
what
it
should
be
redeemable
if
it's
not
redeemable,
there's
a
massive
massive
question
mark
around
that,
but
the
other
thing
that
I
think
we
have
that,
I
think,
is
quite
different-
is
just
the
system
and
the
level
of
technology
that
we
have
implemented
around.
The
system
like
that
I
mean
uscc,
is
not
controlled
by
anybody
who,
you
know,
pulls
the
private
keys
out
of
cold
storage
to
issue
and
redeem.
J
The
asset
I
mean
usc
is
managed
by
systems
by
software.
The
issuance
of
uscc
runs
on
a
24x7
basis.
We
issue
hundreds
of
millions
of
dollars
for
for
some
of
our
larger
customers
during
the
weekend.
It
all
completes
in
a
matter
of
minutes
and
we
have
like
extensive,
extensive
teams.
You
know
building
out
these
systems,
you
know
working
with
with
banking
partners,
optimizing
our
reserves
managing
the
risk.
J
No,
I
don't
think
so.
I
agree
with
that,
though.
I
don't
see
any
particular
reason
today,
for
you
know
anything
that
is
about
to
happen.
No,
I
don't
think
so.
I
think
ted
did
a
tremendous
job
in
being
the
first
mover
in,
I
think
I
think
the
amount
of
adoption
for
tether
in
in
asia,
in
particular
with
real.
J
Right
they
have
a
tremendous
amount
of
command
over
the
crypto
capital
market,
particularly
in
asia,
but
people
prefer
tether
in
a
lot
of
these
jurisdictions
for
as
a
flight
to
safety,
and
that-
and
I
don't
think
that
changes
that
consumer
preference
doesn't
change
very
easily.
So
I
I
know
I
wouldn't
make
it
like
any
doomsday
prediction.
I
don't
think
there's
anything
bad
about
to
happen.
I.
O
B
F
Okay
cool,
so
we
all,
as
the
panel
agrees
here,
not
to
worry
about
tether
for
now.
That's
good
can
all
sleep
better
tonight,
but
let's
just
move
quickly
to
central
bank
digital
currencies
which
are
sort
of
stable
coins.
I
guess
I
mean
you
know,
for
I'm
sure
most
of
you
are
familiar,
but
central
bank
digital
currencies
are
essentially
stable
coins
that
are
issued
by
governments.
They
have
the
word
central
in
the
name.
There's
nothing
decentralized
about
them.
F
China
is
kind
of
leading
the
pack
and
this
but
there's
you
know
dozens
of
countries
now
actively
exploring
central
bank
digital
currencies.
We
don't
really
know
if
and
when
this
is
they're
going
to
arrive,
but
there
is
a
possibility
that
we
could
eventually
be
in
a
cbdc
world,
largely
because
of
fomo
right.
You
know
china
started,
then
everybody
else
is
jumping
on
and
we
could
end
up
in
a
world
where
most
countries
feel
like.
If
I
don't
have
a
central
bank
digital
currency,
I'm
going
to
be
left
out.
F
So
it
raises
a
lot
of
interesting
questions
like
you
know,
can
they
coexist
with
stable
coins?
But
I
I'm
more
curious,
like
from
your
perspective,
putting
the
stable
coin
question
aside
for
a
moment:
do
you
think
central
bank
digital
currencies
should
exist
because
I
think
there
is
a
lot
of
controversy
around
them
in
the
crypto
world
just
because
they
are
somewhat
antithetical
to
the
concepts
of
crypto
I
mean
crypto
is
supposed
to
be
some
sort
of
like
alternative
to
government
issued
money,
and
this
is
literally
government
issued
money.
F
H
I
think
they're
a
net
positive,
ultimately,
because
you're
going
to
get
a
population,
that's
going
to
have
to
get
familiar
with
transacting
digitally
online.
But,
like
you
correctly
said
where,
in
this
call
it,
a
revolution
has
been
going
on
for
a
while,
because
central
banks
and
their
policies
around
money
supply
inflation.
H
All
those
kind
of
details
has
not
been
great:
the
history
of
inflation
in
various
different
countries,
the
steps
that
people
need
to
go
to
to
manage
economies
and
their
actual
currencies
the
way
they
interface
with
the
rest
of
the
world.
You
know
that.
That's
why
we're
all
here
in
this
space,
creating
a
new
way
to
do
this
thing
and-
and
you
know,
will
the
us
dollar
remain
the
number
one
currency
over
the
next
medium
to
long
term?
Who
knows?
H
But
I
guess,
like
I
said
it
is
absolutely
necessary,
as
a
net
positive,
to
get
people
familiar
with
sort
of
using
digital
money
in
the
art
of
the
possible,
and
I
think
there
is
certainly
reason
as
long
as
central
banks
and
regulators
and
institutions
are
happy
with
the
coexistence.
I
think
it's
a
really
cool
thing.
F
I
think
the
counter
argument
to
that,
and
it's
not
what
I
necessarily
subscribe
to,
but
I've
heard,
which
is
that,
yes,
that
all
makes
sense
but
couldn't
stable
coins
just
do
that
right
like
why
do
we
actually
need
the
central
banks
to
get
involved,
because
what
you're
describing
you
know,
is
sort
of
like
hedging
inflation
different,
you
know
more
getting
people
into
the
digital
money
economy
like
yeah.
Why
not
just
use
what
you
guys
are
doing
right.
H
Why
wouldn't
why
wouldn't
the
us
take
circle,
for
example,
go
hey
we're
just
going
to
use
you
guys
as
our
cdbc,
because
circle
have
been
doing
it
together
and
let
me
tell
you
right
now:
you
don't
want
the
u.s
government
or
any
other
government
go
out
there,
because
it's
going
to
take
a
task
force,
a
committee
billions
of
taxpayer
taxpayer
dollars
to
try
and
invent
something.
That's
already
been
invented
and
operates
perfectly
so
yeah
conceptually,
but
I
think
they
should
certainly
co-opt
solutions
that
are
out
there
at
the
moment.
F
Sure,
what's
your
feeling
like
why
you
know
we
you
guys
have
you
know
you
guys
are
out
there
you're
such
a
big
market
player,
doing
a
lot
of
the
same
things
that
a
central
bank
digital
currency
says
they're
going
to
do.
Why
do
we
still
need
a
government
in
this
space
or
do
we?
I
don't
know,
I
don't
know
what
you
think
about
it.
J
J
J
I
think
it
would
be
tremendously
more
efficient
and
there
would
be
an
opportunity
for
for
a
lot
of
for
all
improvements
to
to
exist
compared
to
what
exists
today.
I
I
do.
I
am
very.
I
am
very
skeptical,
though,
of
what
you
said.
I'm
very
skeptical
of
the
role
that
you
know,
government
issued
cbdc's
can
play
at
a
retail
level
again.
I
think
people
tremendously
underestimate
the
the
complexity
in
operating
a
system
like
that,
but
also.
J
J
The
paypals
the
prepaid
cards-
these
are
all
private
forms
of
money,
right
and
and
people
don't
have
an
issue
with
that
governments
don't
have
an
issue
with
that
regulators,
don't
have
an
issue
with
that
everything
seems
to
work
right.
So
I
I
don't
think
I
don't
think
there
is
this
idea.
I
don't
think
this
idea
is
valid
in
terms
of
thinking.
You
know
oh
cbdc's.
If
and
when
they
come
at
a
retail
level,
all
of
a
sudden
they
will
compete
dramatically
with
stable
coins.
I
don't
think
so.
J
J
Companies
like
circo,
I
think
stablecoin
issuers
of
any
kind
and
the
ones
that
we
were
describing
here.
We
we
take
up.
We
take
a
very
particular
stance
when
it
comes
to
to
the
transactions
that
happen
on
on
assets
and
on
the
infrastructure
that
we
build
right.
We
we
have
a
responsibility
for
reporting
to
regulators,
everything
that
is
happening
within
these
circle
constraints
and
circle,
boundaries
right.
J
We
don't
go
and
check
what
emily
is
doing
on
her
self
custody,
while
in
the
issues,
if
she
was
using
uscc
is
that
is
that
and
it
requires,
you
know,
a
court
order.
I
mean
you
know
if,
if
some
is
some,
if
some,
if
somebody's
using
illicit
use
of
a
visa
card,
I
mean
you
know
the
fbi
can
go
and
can
ask
visa
or
subpoena
visa
to
kind
of
open
up
those
transactions
and
look
into
that.
That
can
happen
to
everybody
who
is
regulated,
but
but
will
the
government
not
abuse?
J
You
know
the
the
control
that
it
can
have
over
money
in
those
sorts
of
instruments.
That
is
a
question
that
I
think
we
as
not
not,
then
as
issuers
of
stable
coin,
but
as
consumers
as
citizens.
I
think
that
that's
the
question
we
should
all
be
asking
ourselves:
isn't
that
too
much
control
for
a
government
to
have.
F
Yeah,
I
mean-
I
guess
one
sort
of
best
case
scenario
is
that
you
know
actually
cbdc's
could
lead
to
more
crypto
adoption,
just
because,
like
it's
going
to
be
challenging
for
cbdc's
to
protect
privacy
right
because
they
are
issued
by
governments
and
it
could
lead
people
to
search
for
alternatives,
you
know
to
get
interested
in
digital
money,
but
look
for
alternatives
that
are
more
privacy,
protecting
and
you
know
relatively
decentralized,
but
anyway
we
only
have
like
two
minutes,
so
I
just
want
to
turn
to
regulation
for
a
moment.
This
is
obviously
really
complicated.
F
To
sum
up
in
two
minutes,
but
stable
coin
regulation
is
very
clearly
coming
so
just
quickly
actually,
rather
than
talk
about
what
you
guys
think
is
the
best
stable
coin
regulation.
What
is
the
worst
case
scenario
for
stablecoin
regulation
right
because
sometimes,
when
you
get
regulators
in
a
room
with
the
technology
that
they
don't
totally
understand,
things
can
kind
of
go
off
the
rails
right
and
joe.
I'm
just
curious
like
what
do
you
think
what
could
go
wrong
like?
What
could
regulators
do
to
regulate
stable
coins?
H
Overzealousness,
I
think,
yeah
go
out
there
with
a
view
for
innovation,
but
I
think
any
stablecoin
issuer
decentralized
or
not.
You
just
need
to
be
transparent
about
what
you're
doing
right,
open
the
books
open
the
kimono.
This
is
fine
and
then
in
the
long
term
I
think
hopefully
you
should
be
okay
with
a
regulator.
Just
don't
come
down
with
a
heavy
hand,
continue
supporting
innovation,
because
it's
great
for
your
country,
wherever
you
are
to
have
these
really
smart
people,
building
really
cool
products.
F
And
joe
specifically,
what
what
is
there
anything
out
there
because
there's
like
a
huge
menu
of
regulations
out
there,
like
everyone,
you
know
so
many
different
people
in
washington,
for
example,
time
at
stablecoin
regulations.
What,
in
your
view,
is
something
that
we
should
just
be
concerned
about
in
terms
of,
like
you
said,
overzealousness
heavy
and
specifically,
what
could
regulators
might
do
to
like
clamp
down
on
stable
coins.
J
Yeah,
I
agree
with
that
point.
I
think
I
think
I
think
the
narrowing
of
the
models
is
something
that's
dangerous
and-
and
we
all
hope-
and
we
defend
you
know
in
the
policy-
work
that
we
do
in
washington
and
other
places
that
it
doesn't
happen.
So
you
know
there
is
the
model
that
circle
and
tether
and
some
modders
have
used
right
on
this
idea
of
exogenous
collateral
that
lives
outside
chain
that
should
not
be
the
only
model
for
stable
coins,
so
we
actually
have
defended
that
things.
J
Like
you
know,
crypto
collateral,
stable
coins
should
be
allowed
to
exist.
All
these
other
forms
of
stable
coins
should
be
allowed
to
exist.
Maybe
they
need
to
be.
You
know
bucketed
in
different
ways,
because
there
had
been
conversations
that
I
think
that
would
be
a
very,
very
poor
outcome,
that
the
only
model
for
stable
coins
is
one
model.
I
think
that
would
be
very
bad
and
we
really
hope
that
that
doesn't
happen.
The
other
thing
is,
as
we
said,
the
other
thing
is
overzealous.
J
J
You
know,
there's
there
should
be
no
support
for
self-custody
wallets.
Obviously
we
disagree
with
that.
Obviously,
that's
very,
very
problematic
for
how
we
see
the
world
with
crypto
technology.
So
that's
also
the
doomsday
scenario
but
again
in
the
work
and
in
the
collaboration
that
we
do
from
a
policy
point
of
view.
We
don't
believe
that
that's
going
to
be
the
outcome.
Thank.
F
C
N
Thank
you.
Thank
you
all
right,
so
let's
kind
of
jump
into
this-
and
I
think
we
all
can
acknowledge
that
we're
kind
of
in
a
down
market
here
and
everything
is
economically,
is
all
over
the
place.
But
crypto
payments
has
started
to
kind
of
show
up
in
the
zeitgeist
a
little
bit
more
jess.
Can
you
kind
of
introduce
kind
of
where
you
see
that
going
as
we're
getting
hopefully
eventually
out
of
this
market.
K
Sure
so,
hi
everyone,
I'm
jess
holgrave
and
I
lead
crypto
strategy
at
checkout.com,
we're
a
global
payments
provider,
and
so
we're
really
thinking
about
crypto
in
two
ways:
number
one
we're
thinking
about
how
we
can
provide
the
crypto
ecosystem
with
access
to
payments.
That's
something
that
we've
been
doing
since
2018,
we
processed
for
a
lot
of
exchanges
on
and
off
ramps
and
in
that
world.
I
think
what
we're
seeing
is
this
real
evolution
that
people
are
realizing,
that
payments
is
one
of
the
key
barriers
to
onboarding
people
to
web
three
right,
like
absolutely.
N
K
K
On
the
second
side,
we
are,
we
work
a
lot
with
web
2
companies
right.
We
work
with
netflix
with
e-commerce
companies,
retail
sites,
and
that's
been
the
really
interesting
thing
for
me.
Certainly
over
the
last
little
while
and
talking
of
the
downturn
what's
been
most
amazing
is
that
the
level
of
interest
hasn't
dropped.
This
time
in
the
last
cycle
we
were
seeing,
you
know,
tons
of
excitement
and
then,
as
soon
as
crypto
went
to
hit.
K
N
P
Well,
we
see
that
there
are
a
lot
of
people
coming
to
crypto,
but
the
crypto
is
still
less
than
fiat
money,
so
we
focus
on
the
small
part
between
the
crypto
world
and
the
fiat
world,
so
people
can
go
to
crypto
and
to
fiat
both
ways.
We
know
that
fiat
money
is
still
more
convenient
in
the
daily
life
than
than
crypto.
For
example,
some
people
still
want
to
buy
beer
for
for
fiat
yeah.
P
They
come
with
the
euros
yeah,
so
we
try
to
make
krypso
more
convenient
to
use
through
the
through
the
more
more
useful
more
through
the
things
that
people
got
used
to
they're
good,
to
get
used
to
visa
cards,
mastercard
cards
and
other
other
of
that.
So
near
pay
focuses
on
on
this.
We
create
nearby
cards,
so
the
users
can
spend
their
near
and
usn
in
their
daily
life
using
their
visa
card.
I
would
think
that
this
is
the
thing
that
will
boost
using
crypto,
that
every
day
in
everyday
life,
yeah.
N
Q
So
hi
it's
elena
schulzo
from
rockettab,
so
for
us
today
we
see
one
of
the
main
problems
in
payments
in
web3
is
adoption,
so
new
businesses
are
trying
to
striving
to
come
to
web
three,
but
they
they
are
used
to
have
two
experience.
They
are
used
to
good
interfaces
and
also
they're
striving
to
manage
all
those
payments
in
different
blockchains
different
currencies,
different
networks,
so
in
rocket
the
business
we.
N
N
Oh,
that's
great,
so
just
pulling
it
back
a
little
bit.
You
mentioned
regulations
and
some
of
the
challenges
that
are
going
on
check
out
a
little
bit
more
traditional
fintech
and
coming
especially
around
all
of
the
big
banks
and
credit
cards
and
everything
else.
How
do
you
see
that
marriage
of
the
two
is
that
becoming
a
challenge
of
the
the
traditional
fintech
pushing
back
on
you
guys,
trying
to
integrate
the
two.
K
So
we
because
we're
a
kind
of
payment
service
provider
we
own
the
full
stack
of
our
technology,
but
we're
heavily
relying
on
partners
we're
principal
members
with
visa.
Mastercard,
all
these
schemes
we're
relying
on
acquiring
banks,
and
it
took
us
a
very
long
time
actually
to
to
work
with
those
partners
to
get
them
comfortable,
and
we
saw
that
as
an
amazing
investment,
because
we
developed
a
lot
of
in-house
expertise.
We
hired
a
lot
of
crypto
native
people
and
taught
them
about
payments
as
well
as
taught
payments
people
about
crypto.
N
K
We
did
that
in
the
banking
space,
with
the
schemes,
but
also
with
regulators
and
policy
makers,
and
we
have
a
huge
program
at
checkout
to
really
interact
with
those
people
and
to
bring
a
perspective,
which
is
that,
like
we're
not
only
about
crypto
we're
not
here,
to
push
a
particular
cryptocurrency
or
anything
else.
What
we're
here
to
do
is
to
see
that
crypto
from
a
technology
perspective
is
the
future
of
payments
and
that
smart
regulators
and
regulators
around
the
world
now
realize
that
they
ought
to
have
a
competitive
mandate.
Even
if
that's
not
explicit,
because.
K
Can
choose
where
they
want
to
go
and
set
up,
and
so
the
smartest
regulators
out
there
are
now
really
deeply
engaged
with
like
how
do
we
create
the
balance
of
consumer
protections,
but
also
enable
innovation
and
that's
something
that
we've
been
deeply
focused
on
and
I'm
like
more
optimistic
than
ever
actually
about
the
work.
That's
happening
there
and
the
way
that
the
way
that
regulators
and
partners
are
thinking
about
it.
N
P
P
Let's
make
the
make
it
more
strict,
the
money
transfers,
and
we
see
that
each
country
in
asia,
in
u.s
in
the
europe
in
europe
they
have
different
approaches
to
you
know
regulation
of
crypto
regulation,
fiat-
and
this
is
what
we're
facing,
but
I
think
that
the
main
problem
here
is
that
we
as
scripps
users,
we
expect
that
everything
will
be
private.
Yes,
everything,
I'm
gonna
custody,
everything
will
be
not
out
of
control,
and
I
think
that
crypto
will
be
decentralized,
but
it
will
be
more
regulated.
P
We
have
to
do
this
just
to
make
krypto
more
mass
adopter
must
adopt
it.
So
this
is
the
only
way,
and-
and
so
we
follow
the
rules,
we
have
to
follow
the
follow
the
rules
to
make
our
near
pay
card
work
everywhere.
That's
right,
right,
yeah!
We
understand
that
this
is
a
challenge,
but
this
is
the
only
way
to
bring
crypto
to
one
billion
users.
N
Q
Well,
as
far
as
we
know,
ethereum
was
a
good
solution,
but
it's
not
as
good
as
scalable
as
fast
and
as
well
built
as
modern
people
and
users
require.
So
I
think
the
near
is
very
good
solution,
also
in
case
of
usability,
because
you
know
that's
human
readable
addresses
by
the
way
it
helps
a
lot
for
the
adoption
yeah.
So
it's
fast,
it's
cheap
and
it's
much
more
scalable
and
usable
yeah.
P
Well,
I
think
that
near
has
a
combination
of
the
crucial
factors
it
needs
to
be
in
in
an
ecosystem.
The
first
thing
is
the
technology
sharding
and
fast
fast
and
cheap
transactions
that
the
first
part,
but
that's
not
the
not
everything
right.
We
won't
do
anything.
The
second
thing
is
the
ecosystem.
The
ecosystem
is
big.
You
can
see
many
projects
here,
creating
real
value
for
for
users,
and
sometimes
it's
like
entertainment
and
through
entertainment.
N
P
Entrepreneurs
create,
and
that
means
that
the
ecosystem
will
rise.
It
will
attract
more
customers.
That
is
also
crucial
without
the
cost,
with
our
customers.
Without
real
users,
everything
will
die
in
a
year,
so
I
I
believe
that
near
will
be,
will
rise
and
it
will
grow
and
grow
as
it's
as
a
group
yesterday,
yes,
the
previous,
the
previous
time
yeah.
So
this
is
why
we
build
the
near
because
it
has
all
the
factors
of
future
growth.
N
K
Definitely,
I
think
that
you
know
some
of
the
key
things
that
I'm
thinking
about
when
I
think
about
like
the
future
of
payments
is
the
fact
that
our
payment
networks
today,
swift
visa
mastercard,
are
incredibly
scalable,
they're,
incredibly
efficient,
and
they
have
been
built
over
time
and
they're,
not
very
nice,
to
develop
on,
but
they've
been
built
over
time
to
create
really
efficient
user
experiences
too.
What
users
expect
from
from
those
crypto
rail
those
payment?
Those
traditional
payment
rails
is
really
easy
ways
to
manage
refunds
and
chargebacks.
K
K
K
K
N
K
N
N
N
Sure
sure
this
is
kind
of
for
anyone
just
thinking
about
like
what
we've
gone
and
got
into
so
far.
What
do
you
see,
I
think,
is
going
to
be
the
next
step
for
payments
with
crypto?
Is
it
just
continuing
to
battle
regulation
or
do?
Is
there
something
else
on
the
horizon
here?
Anyone
wants
to
go
first,
but.
P
P
Merchants
and
from
the
people,
so
it
will
be,
like
you
know,
exponential
growth,
I
think,
and
what
we
need
is
what
we
need
funding.
We
need
good
news,
we
don't
need,
we
need
less,
fails
like
celsius,
tornado
cash
and
something
else
we
need.
We
need
more
fails.
We
need
more,
you
know
sustainable
actions
on
making
crypt.
You
know
ubiquitous
yeah,
yeah.
Q
Yeah,
I
won
absolutely.
I
totally
agree
because
it
will
not
be
like
some
big
step.
It
would
be
sustainable
growth.
The
more
good
products
were
built
here
as
the
better
interfaces
for
delivers.
The
more
people
are
coming
to
the
ecosystem
and
the
more
people
who
are
excluded
from
the
economics
from
payments
from
the
economy
will
be
there.
So
the
economy
in
general.
N
Absolutely
absolutely,
I
think,
great
part,
and
so
for
check
out
again
when
you
have
that
that
blend.
How
do
you
think
about
those
regions
that
are
maybe
underserved?
Is
there
some
way
that
check
again
being
a
little
bit
more
traditional
to
begin
with?
Is
there
something
that
you
can
do
as
well
to
help
promote
that.
N
N
K
N
O
K
Totally
sort
of
hear
that,
but
at
the
same
time
like
what
we're
trying
to
do
there
with
our
27-page
questionnaire,
is
make
sure
that
we're
operating
in
a
compliant
way
and
that
everything
else
all
of
those
other
little
bits
of
regulatory.
You
know
aspects
that
we
can
deal
with
on
behalf
of
our
merchants.
So
that's
really
kind
of
like
how
we're
we're
focused
on
unlocking
this,
this
geographic
piece
we
were.
K
We
have
very
close
partnerships
with
visa
and
mastercard
and
some
of
the
most
recent
merchants
that
we've
put
live
on
visa
direct,
which
is
an
off
it's
a
card
payout
solution.
So
the
ability
to
take
money
from
crypto
and
put
it
back
in
fiat
onto
your
debit
card,
for
example,
and
with
cexio,
which
is
the
crypto
exchange.
We've
unlocked
over
140
countries
that.
N
K
That
reach
to
be
able
to
then
make
those
crypto
on
and
off
ramps.
More
more
seamless
but,
as
ivan
said,
like
every
country,
is
different.
Every
regulator
is
thinking
about
this
in
a
different
way,
and
so
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
navigate
both
sides
of
that
to
to
support
these
bridges,
and
I
think
that
some
of
the
key
drivers
are
going
to
be
around
unlocking
regulation.
They're
going
to
be
around
identity
solutions
that
help
crypto
payment
rails
comply
with
existing
regulations,
because
crypto
is
not
unregulated
right,
like
it.
R
O
K
N
Years
yeah,
I
kind
of
as
we're
getting
near
the
end
here.
I
really
would
like
to
maybe
just
kind
of
hit
it
a
little
bit,
but
the
lessons
that
we
can
take
from
traditional
fintech
that
still
probably
needs
to
go
into
crypto
we're
so
caught
up
in.
I
think,
trying
to
be
disruptive
all
the
time
and
that
crypto
is
so
innovative
and
we're
going
to
change
the
entire
world,
which
I
think
it
is
going
to
change
the
world.
But
we
can't
just
immediately
do
that.
N
Q
Well,
maybe
I'm
speaking
about
it
like
a
third
time
in
a
row,
but
what
we
need
to
adopt
is
good
interfaces
and
easy
onboarding
of
users
like
yeah
like
if
he
so
the
more
businesses
we
have
here.
The
more
people
who
have
using
our
systems
are
better
for
the
planet
and
for
all
of
us,
so
yeah
easy
adoption
is
something
we
need
to
get
from
web
2..
P
Well,
I
think
that
we
can
learn
is
the
ease
of
use.
My
grandmother
can
can
get
a
card
and
pay
and
pay
in
the
shop.
It
doesn't
take
any
it's
not
it's
not
it's
easy
for
her.
It's
right
difficult
and
I
think
that
still
many
products
here
in
the
network
system
and
other
systems
are
made
for
power.
Users
experienced
users
and
I
think
that's
fintech
the
traditional
fintech.
They
have
learned
how
to
make
extremely
easy
products,
extremely
beautiful
and
convenient
products
in
the
daily
life.
I
have
I
we.
P
O
P
O
P
K
I
think,
for
me,
one
of
the
key
things
is
this
like
concept
of
like
graduality
or
there's,
probably
a
better
word
for
it.
Right,
like
in
fintech,
we've
seen
this
transition
from
only
giving
people
access
to
like
the
simplest
products
and
over
the
last
10
years,
we've
seen.
You
know
the
ability
for
retail
investors
to
access
more
interesting
investment
products.
We've
seen
the
integration
of
crypto
wallets
with
your
neo
bank.
O
T
K
N
N
K
T
T
N
K
It's
a
great
access
point
for
somebody,
who's
new
to
crypto
and
then
often
that
person
will
go
okay.
I
want
to
learn
more
about
this,
I'm
going
to
learn
about
actually
holding
cryptocurrencies
or
about
defy,
and-
and
so
I
think
that,
especially
with
a
lot
of
the
companies
that
I
am
close
to-
and
I
love
working
with
it's
to
say
that,
yes,
our
aspiration
as
an
ecosystem
is
to
drive
towards
something
that
is
very
decentralized
and
I'm
a
big
believer
in
that.
K
But
the
way
that
we're
gonna
do,
that
is
by
educating
consumers
and
by
building
easy
ways
for
them
to
interact
with
decentralized
technology
such
that
we
can
bring
them
those
benefits
over
time
and
so
solving
for
user
experience.
Solving
for
compliance
is
so
key
right
now
to
make
sure
that
we
build
confidence
across
the
wider
consumer
base.
K
I
think
that
one
of
the
things
that
we
can
do
is
actually
be
very
honest
about
the
limitations
that
we're
facing
there's
a
lot
of
promise
for
crypto
and
it's
why
I'm
so
excited
about
that's
why
I've
been
working
in
the
space
for
so
long.
But
I
think
if
we
aren't
honest
about
the
limitations
today,
then
people
who
are
new
to
crypto,
especially
in
the
corporate
world,
discover
those
limitations
and
then
go.
Okay
like
this
is.
K
P
N
C
Thank
you.
Thank
you
so,
much
to
each
and
every
one
of
those
panelists
to
discuss
crypto
natives.
That
was
an
incredible
piece.
If
you
stick
around,
we
have
an
even
more
special
treat
he's
got
the
best
hair
in
the
conference.
It's
james
prestwich
from
nomad
to
talk
about
the
meaning
of
settlement
layers.
U
All
right,
my
slides
around
here
we
go
hi,
I'm
james.
I
work
at
nomad
on
cross
chain.
Everything
and
the
great
part
about
being
me
at
near
khan,
is
that
I
don't
have
to
talk
about
the
future
of
crypto.
I
just
have
to
talk
about
the
present.
I
get
to
stand
up
here
on
a
soapbox
and
talk
about
something
that
annoys
me
a
lot,
and
so
the
title
of
this
talk
is
stop
saying,
settlement
layer
like
really
just
stop
it,
it's
a
useless
term,
and
I
hate
it.
U
We
can
skip
over
this
because,
like
this
is
just
me,
I've
been
in
crypto
for
about
eight
years.
For
the
last
five
to
six,
I've
been
working
exclusively
on
cross
chain
applications,
bridges,
trades,
that
sort
of
thing.
I
was
an
early
contributor
to
aurora
back
when
it
was
just
ilya
and
a
few
guys
in
an
office.
U
So
the
problem
with
settlement
layer
is
that
people
make
big
giant
charts
like
this
and
like
they
put
the
settlement
layer
on
some
row
and
they
lay
out
like
12
different
things
sideways,
and
it's
just
not
very
useful,
like
what
is
a
data
availability
layer?
What's
a
consensus
layer,
you
know
what
do
people
mean
and
why
do
they
do
this?
U
So
in
practice,
when
people
are
saying
the
words
settlement
layer,
they
mean
one
of
three
things.
The
first
thing
they
might
mean
is
the
ledger
of
record
for
a
specific
asset.
This
is
really
easy
to
understand
near
the
blockchain
is
the
ultimate
ledger
for
the
near
asset.
Ethereum
is
the
ledger
of
record
for
the
eth
asset.
U
U
So
because
I'm
terminally
online,
I've
decided
to
lay
out
this
talk
as
a
bunch
of
tweets
that
people
have
made
that
are
usually
good,
but
sometimes
bad.
So
this
one
is
from
tully
the
founder
of
solana
and
he's
asking
does
settlement
layer,
congestion.
Does
congestion
on
the
ledger
of
record
for
ethereum
cause
spreads
on
centralized
exchanges
does
ethereum
having
high
gas
cause
spreads
on
coinbase,
and
the
answer
is
no
because
while
ethereum
is
the
ledger
of
record
for
eth,
it's
the
settlement
layer
as
they
say
for
eth.
U
U
U
Is
it
a
good
idea
to
have
compute
on
the
ledger
of
record?
I
mean,
probably
everyone
loves
smart
contracts.
We
all
use
them
all
the
time
on
ethereum
near
and
other
places,
but
this
would
be
a
better
tweet
if
it
didn't
say,
settlement
layer
if
it
said
ledger
of
record
instead
she's
talking
about
the
place
that
records
ownership
of
bitcoin
she's,
not
talking
about
the
place
where
bitcoin
trades
or
payments
are
made.
U
So
don't
say,
settlement
layer,
say,
ledger
of
record,
don't
say:
eth
is
the
settlement
layer
for
east,
don't
say
near
is
the
settlement
layer
for
near
say:
eth
is
the
ledger
of
record
for
eth
and
don't
say:
eth
settles
usdc,
because
that's
just
not
true
usdc
is
settled
by
circle.
They
own
all
of
the
dollars.
They
have
them
in
a
bank
account
and
when
you
make
a
usdc
trade,
circle's
permission
and
updating
the
usdc
contract
on
some
chain,
because
it's
on
five
or
seven
of
them
is
what
actually
settles
the
usdc
payment.
U
The
second
thing
people
talk
about
when
they
say
settlement
layer
is
an
enshrined
bridge
for
a
specific
roll-up
people,
love
to
say
that
roll-ups
settle
to
l1.
But
it's
just
not
true.
So
in
order
to
understand
why
that's
the
case,
we
have
to
talk
about
what
an
enshrined
bridge
is.
You
know
enshrined
is
kind
of
a
big
funny
religious
word.
We
don't
use
it
very
often.
U
U
U
What
they
mean
is
that
you
can
build
a
bridge
to
ethereum.
As
long
as
ethereum
can
verify
your
consensus
and
your
contract
execution
any
chain
can
be
a
roll-up
on
ethereum.
If
ethereum
can
run
the
chain's
consensus
and
state
transition
function,
there's
nothing
magical
about
roll-ups
that
make
them
settle
to
a
specific
l1.
U
It
is
a
bridge
that
is
built
into
the
protocol.
For
a
great
example
of
this.
If
you
are
making
payments
on
optimism,
you
know
half
an
hour
later
that
your
payment
has
occurred.
You
know
the
person
you
paid
knows
the
optimism
network
knows
everybody
knows,
but
that
trade
doesn't
settle
to
ethereum
for
another
six
days
and
23
hours.
U
U
U
So
this
tweet
would
be
better
if
you
were
talking
about
enshrined
bridges
rather
than
settlement
layers.
He's
saying
that
there
should
be
a
focal
point
where
we
use
shared
security
to
build
many
enshrined
bridges
out
from
a
hub,
which
of
course,
should
be
built
on
celestia,
because
celestia
is
very
cool.
U
U
These
rule
ups
are
not
layer,
twos
they're,
not
scaling
networks,
they
are
applications
that
are
themselves
chains
and
they
are
consuming
resources
on
their
layer.
One
and
that's
why
it's
not
really
useful
to
talk
about
ethereum
as
a
settlement
layer
for
roll-ups
or
near
as
a
settlement
layer
for
roll-ups
or
any
other
chain
as
a
settlement
layer
we
want
to
talk
about.
U
U
So
like
this
guy,
the
founder
of
stax,
which
is
a
bitcoin
affinity,
scam.
You
know
good
morning
to
the
folks
who
believe
bitcoin
can
be
a
web3
platform
and
settlement
layer.
What
does
this
tweet
mean?
It
means
nothing.
It
means
bitcoins
cool
guys.
My
chain
is
really
cool:
okay
and
zucky
tweeting,
you
know,
should
adam
be
a
settlement
layer.
Should
the
cosmos
hub
be
a
settlement
layer.
What
does
the
tweet
mean?
It
doesn't
mean
anything.
U
He
just
wants
you
to
pay
attention
to
the
cosmos
hub,
so
you
should
really
care
about
my
chain
guys,
there's,
no
greater
legitimization
of
ethereum's
value
problems
than
the
world's
economic
settlement.
Layer
and
ethereum
visa
is
settling
things
to
ethereum
and
at
specific
layer,
3
roll-ups
that
settle
the
category-specific
layer,
2
roll-ups
in
one
big
global
settlement,
ethereum
and
ethereum
is
built
to
survive
the
next
thousand
years
and
the
settlement
layer
is
going
to
bring
immeasurable
value
to
humanity.
U
U
U
So
this
is
again
my
least
favorite
usage
of
the
term
settlement
layer
and
the
number
one
reason
that
you
should
stop
using.
It
is
because,
every
time
you
do,
you
sound
like
one
of
these
rabid
fanboys
who
don't
know
what
they're
talking
about
and
just
want
to
make
a
hit
tweet
so
that
people
buy
whatever.
U
So
you
know,
we've
talked
about
three
main
uses,
two
that
I
kind
of
like,
but
think
could
be
more
specific
and
one
that
is
just
a
straight
up
sin
and
you
should
never
do,
and
that
brings
me
to
the
end
of
my
talk.
You
can
find
me
around
near
khan
for
the
rest
of
the
day.
Probably
I
mean
I
look
like
this.
I'm
very
recognizable
or
you
can
go
fight
me
on
twitter.
My
handle
is
underscore
prestwitch,
it's
just
my
last
name
thanks.
So
much
for
the
time.
C
O
O
B
B
B
B
B
B
B
B
A
A
B
B
C
Hey
there
we
go,
we
fixed
it.
Look
I
all.
I
hope
that
you
all
had
a
a
brilliant
lunch
and
I'd
just
like
to
say
something
before
we
kick
off
with
this
next
panel,
because
it's
a
really
special
one,
each
and
every
one
of
you
in
this
room
at
this
conference
watching
online.
Anybody
who
has
touched
the
revolution
that
is
web
3
is
making
a
real
change
to
the
future
of
the
world,
perhaps
none
more
so
than
our
next
guests.
C
S
Welcome
everybody
thank
you
for
being
here
today
really
excited
about
this
panel,
so
we
are
going
to
talk
about
refi,
right
and
right
now
near
protocol
is
a
climate
neutral
blockchain.
What
does
that
mean
right
and
now
with
web
3,
there's
so
much
happening
and
changing
in
the
way
we
think
about
stuff,
but
now
refi
has
popped
up,
which
is
kind
of
cool
right
and
it
used
to
be
like.
I
almost
think,
there's
a
obligation
to
think
about
environmental
and
all
that
kind
of
stuff
with
the
project,
but
refi
gives
an
opportunity.
S
V
V
Basically
refi
is
this
the
same
concept,
but
in
thinking
about
an
inclusive
approach
of
how
we
can
bring
more
people
on
board
in
a
different
kind
of
financial
system
and
to
have
the
to
have
the
the
poorest
of
this
world,
the
people
that
are
not
part
of
this
financial
system
to
be
included
in
this
in
this
approach?
Obviously
web3
is
a
very
awesome
place
to
do
that,
because
very
community
based
approach.
So
this
is
my
approach
to
refi.
S
Oh,
I
see
I'm
liking.
This
theme
already
like
right
off
the
bat
you're
talking
about
like
collective,
like
let's
just
decentralizing,
maybe
profits,
decentralizing
responsibilities,
decentralization
right
so
like
instead
of
accumulation,
recirculation
kind
of
right.
So
this
is
really
cool.
So,
let's
jump
on
like
projects
who
are
doing
this,
we've
got
some
great
projects
here.
We've
got
raise
some
open
vertical
farming,
which
is
awesome.
I
saw
the
tour.
L
Absolutely
so
just
coming
back
a
bit
to
refi
refi
for
me
is
a
leveraging
blockchain
for
climate
action
and
social
action
right.
So
it's
planet,
people
not
only
profit
but
those
two
as
well
right.
So
on
our
case
like
the
way
we
are
using
is
to
decentralize
access
to
more
vertical
farms
worldwide.
So,
instead
of
a
single
entity
or
a
single
person
having
to
finance
the
farm
themselves,
we
can
empower
communities
in
need
to
finance
and
deploy
their
own
farms,
and
I
guess
two
key
angles
is
case:
ability
the
scalability
and
traceability
right.
L
So
through
d5
or
refi
and
blockchain
technologies.
We
can
accelerate
the
deployment
of
more
vertical
farms
worldwide
and
trace
their
impact
right
so
like
by
leveraging
data
and
different
solutions.
We
can
actually
have
off-chain
data
breached
on
chain
to
see
how
much
impact
we
are
actually
generating
in
terms
of
water,
energy
use
and
land
saved,
so
that
we
can
empower
communities
to
grow
more
with
less
and
grow
more
local
food
in
a
manner
that
makes
the
most
impact
for
communities.
S
Nice
man
that
that
web
three
mix
of
like
real
world
use
case
combined
with
blockchain
technology
right
like
the
superpower
of
it,
and
are
you
using
like
any
specific
techniques
like
decentralized
fractionalization?
How
are
you
kind
of
thinking
about
getting
that
out
to
the
masses
who
can
help
support
the
vertical
farms.
L
Yeah,
so
we're
designing
right
now,
a
protocol
like
in
two
angles
right
so
also
the
technology,
the
infrastructure
to
allow
people
to
grow,
yeah
and
developing
the
processes,
the
the
software,
so
that
it's
way
easier
to
grow
than
it
would
take
like
just
to
start
from
scratch
and
then
also
the
financing
mechanism
right.
So
the
fancy
mechanism,
so
that
communities
worldwide
that
actually
need
it.
The
most
in
places
that
are
are
lacking
access
to
water,
food,
etc
can
deploy
their
own
farm
set.
S
V
Yeah,
so
if
you
think
about
how
we
can
address
the
big
challenges
of
of
this
century,
obviously
there
are,
there
are
many
yeah
restoring
nature.
Conserving
nature
is
obviously
one
of
those
challenges,
and
what
we
are
trying
to
address
with
the
open
forest
protocol
is
to
kind
of
rethink,
how
we
address
those
issues,
and
especially
with
forest.
What
how
we
can
we
incentivize
people
to
conserve
and
restore
nature
by
playing
trees
or
consuming
trees,
and
when
you
think
about
how
people
address
this
issue
today,
it's
a
very
siloed
approach.
V
So
right,
the
un
is
trying
to
do
something
at
a
very
global
scale.
It's
very
hard.
It's
about
it's
top-down
approach,
we're
trying
to
to
go
the
other
way
around
with
a
bottom-up
approach,
providing
the
the
right
tools,
the
right
incentive
to
the
communities
on
the
ground
to
be
owning
their
data
owning
their
the
future
and
and
be
recognized
for
for
doing
that
work
and
that's
basically
what
we
are
trying
to
build.
There
are,
of
course,
a
whole.
You
know.
Environment,
there's
a
whole
whole
mechanics
of
wave
3
behind
that.
S
X
I
think,
when
I
think,
as
an
investor
for
regenerative
finance,
I
think
about
the
unit
economics
model,
which
is,
I
think,
where
a
lot
of
the
tokenomics
that
you've
seen
in
like
gaming,
could
actually
work
when
building
incentive
structures
to
save
the
planet,
so
there's
actually
a
planet
to
game
in
unless
we're
all
gonna
go
to
mars.
So
I
I
look
at
what
are
the
incentive
structures?
X
That
are
amazing
opportunities
for
financing
projects
that
have
what
we
call
a
sustainability
or
impact
angle.
So
these
are
some
of
the
things
that
I
look
at
when
looking
at
projects,
and
I
think
we're
still
yet
to
scratch
the
surface
on
getting
institutional
investment
to
be
really
seriously
interested,
which
is
something
else
that
I
look
at
regenerative
finance.
You
look
at
like
esg
bonds
as
an
example,
you
look
at
alphabet
bonds
like
five
years
ago.
X
Z
X
S
You
bring
up
a
lot
of
good
points
because
regenerative
finance
this
term
is
very
new
right,
like
most
people
in
the
audience
have
been
in
crypto
in
the
blockchain
space
longer
than
the
term
right,
so
it's
almost
like
you're
defining
it
within
it,
and
web
3
is
disrupting
a
lot
of
industries
and
giving
a
financial
gamification
aspects
really
cool.
So
that
is
like
really
exciting
to
see
with
all
that
with
like
the
the
web.
3
has
really
strong
technological
advantages
right.
So,
let's,
let's
just
go
to
you
mark
one
of
them
is
data.
S
W
W
To
make
sure
that
we
not
only
verify
you
know,
make
file
coin
verified
but
sustainable,
but
also
build
these
tools
to
to
a
degree
of
generality
that
they
can
also
be
leveraged
by
other
web3
systems
and
even
legacy
industries.
So
we're
evaluating
an
energy
use
of
the
network
connecting
it
to
renewable
energy,
providing
ways
for
our
nodes
within
our
network,
our
storage
providers
to
decarbonize
their
operations
and
then
across
the
refi
landscape.
Trying
to
catalyze
this
nascent
environmental
web
3
space
wow.
S
I
mean
there's
so
much
to
unpack
there,
but,
like
we've
got
aligning
incentives
which
you
know.
I
want
to
be
optimistic
right
like
yes,
you
said
something
great
yeah.
We
don't
have
a
planet.
None
of
this
like
there's
no
gaps
on
a
non-planet
right
unless
we're
already
breaking
into
like
you
know
digital
space
somewhere
right
so
like.
How
do
you
go
about
aligning
incentives
and
fred?
V
That
is
how
you
use
data
in
a
in
a
framework
that
would
make
sense
to
them.
In
our
case,
we
frame
that
data
by
giving
them
tools
to
acquire
that
data
themselves
to
own
their
data
and
then
to
make
something
with
that
data.
And,
of
course,
that
is
already
a
first
step
towards
this
decentralization
idea
of
okay.
AA
V
It's
not
data
that
someone
is
acquiring
for
you
owning
for
you,
like
you
know,
google
or
facebook
will
do
they
will
and
that
people
understand,
and
then
you
can
think
about
how
this
specific
problem
with
those
people
on
the
ground
being
owning
their
data
and
how
they
how
this
data
is
going
to
be
moved
on
to
the
next
level.
So
that
is
the
acquisition
part,
then
the
validation
part.
That's
also
where
it's
interesting.
V
You
have
to
think
about
how
you
validate
this
data
and
obviously
d5
has
a
specific
way
on
how
to
do
it,
and
our
way
is
to
also
on
board
people
that
are
not
into
a
web
3
approach,
but
they
are
outside
of
web
3,
validating
this
data.
So
it's
it's
rethinking
the
data
flow,
but
with
a
concrete
proposition
that
makes
sense
to
people
on
the
ground
and
addressing
a
very
concrete
problem.
S
L
On
the
data
side
and
what's
interesting
but
we're
building
it,
we
have
a
controlled
environment
inside
each
farm
right,
so
we're
using
water
significant
amount
of
energy
which
we're
we're
creating
our
own
clean
energy.
But
we
need
to
quantify
that
and
I
think,
like
what
what
ofp
is
building
in
other
players
like
mrv
solutions
to
really
have
that
certainty
of
of
what
is
happening
either
in
a
forest
or
at
a
farm
right.
L
So
once
that
is
tracked
and
quantified,
I
believe
refi
allows
the
capability
to
tokenize
it
right,
so
once
we
tokenize
it,
for
example,
and
and
we
can
have
on
our
side
impact
tokens
right
so
carbon
is
is,
of
course,
carbon
credits
are
something
that's
pretty
new
and
and
growing,
but
there's
also
other
co
benefits
such
as
water
or
energy
right.
So,
by
having
that
data
stream
well
connected
off-chain
and
on-chain,
we
can
quantify
that
and
potentially
plug
to
a
secondary
market
as
well
unlocking
huge
amounts
of
value
right.
L
S
That's
like
really
cool
so
you're
talking
about
tokenization,
I
mean,
and
then
that
opens
up
a
whole
world
to
to
the
unbanked
the
underserved.
All
these
people
it
just
spreads
out
to
the
world-
and
this
is
refi-
really
does
follow
up
with
like
this
isn't
going
to
take
a
group
effort.
This
is
a
community-based
thing
right,
so
I
want
to
bring
up
the
community
aspect
like
just
how
do
you
think
approaching
a
community
and
leveraging
a
community
can
help
impact
this
right?
Because
community
is
like
such
a
buzzword
and,
like
you
know,
community
community?
W
First,
yeah
happy
to
okay
cool
I'll
start
off
by
saying,
I
think
the
community
building
aspect,
the
movement
building
aspect
is
one
of
the
more
challenging
parts
of
this.
Changing
human
behavior
is
oftentimes
much
more
difficult
than
the
technological
solution,
but
for
our
part
I
mentioned
that
fourth
pillar
earlier
we're
really
trying
to
catalyze
this
nascent
environmental
web
3
space.
That's
where
we
focus
primarily
on
community
building
and
we're
doing
that
through
things
such
as
our
green
grants
earlier
this
year,
I
believe
it
was.
W
May
we
launched
our
green
grants
pipeline
just
this
first
round,
which
is
a
million
dollars
that
we've
been
doling
out
in
different
sizes,
from
10
000
in
the
low
end
to
200
000
on
the
high
end
to
different
early
stage,
refi
projects
that
round
actually
ends
at
the
end
of
this
month,
september
30th,
but
then
we'll
shortly
afterwards
be
announcing
a
new
round
of
equal
or
larger
size
on
in
parallel,
and
in
tandem
to
that,
we
are
also
hosting
a
number
of
events.
We're
starting
this
seminal
kind
of
quarterly
event
called
the
sustainable
blockchain
summit.
W
W
Sorry,
those
are
all
ethereum
based
events
we'll
try
to
get
one
at
a
near
event
soon,
but
that
is
really
focused
on
bringing
together
a
whole
slew
of
different
actors
in
the
space
from
legacy
industries
from
the
legacy,
carbon
markets
and
legacy
energy
industries,
together
with
all
of
these
web
3
projects
focusing
on
these
crucial
environmental
challenges
to
work
together
and
move
the
the
whole
space
in
the
right
direction,
exactly
fred.
What
about.
V
Yeah,
so
I'm
back
with
boots
on
the
ground
with
my
project,
our
projects,
the
community
aspect
is
super
important,
as
when
you
talk
to
a
community,
sometimes
they
will
be
at
a
different
level
or
different
stage
of
understanding
technology
or
what
you're
actually
proposing
to
them.
So
it's
a
lot
about
conversation,
the
conversation
we
have
today
today
we
have
them,
of
course,
with
the
communities.
So
it's
about.
You
know
how
you
bring
them
on
to,
I
would
say,
a
technological
world
that
is
one
but
also
understanding
the
value
proposition.
V
On
on
what
we
build
together,
you
know
yeah.
What
is
what
is
the
value
for
them?
Why
we
build
this
for
them
and
how
they
are
they're,
going
to
interact
with
this
system,
which
is
a
very
different
system
from
what
what
they
have
seen
right
so
that
we
are
providing
them
for
free
of
charge,
new
tools
to
do
their
to
do
their
monitoring
it's
first,
sometimes
the
first
impression
is
like:
are
they
those
guys
really
serious?
V
Why
would
they
offer
this
to
me
to
do
something
that
good
and
then,
once
you,
you
know,
you
start
the
conversation.
Then
you
realize
that
there
is,
there
is
eventually
an
opportunity
to
be
part
of
a
different
system.
That's
the
first
thing
as
as
they
understand
community.
We
come
with
the
same
language,
so
we
connect
with
that
and
then
eventually
they
start
thinking
about
how
this
is
going
to
affect
their
business
model
or
their
day
to
day
life.
V
S
Oh
man
dude.
That
is
such
a
good
point
like,
like.
I
just
think
it's
so
interesting
where
we're
going
like
you're
you're
web
3
oftentimes
can
solve
a
solution.
Sometimes
that
almost
sounds
made
up
right
like
and
that's
what
you're
saying
like
if
someone's
like,
well,
that
I'm
used
to
a
ton
of
friction,
I'm
used
to
it
being
like
just
something
I
do
to
get
like
a
stamp
for
my
company
and
you're
like
no.
No,
this
is
actually
like
a
whole
new.
You
have
to
shift
a
whole
narrative
in
in
in
any
corporate.
S
L
For
sure
about
composability,
I
think
the
refi
space
is
not
about
single
actors
right
mentioned
before
you
need
to
integrate
different
ecosystems
and
different
technologies
right
so
in
in
terms
of
yeah
one
project
integrating
with
another
it's
coming
back
to,
for
example,
co-benefits
and
carbon
credits,
etc.
How
can
we
leverage
some
already
existing
technology
and
bridge
that
protocol
with
something
else
right,
and
I
just
wanted
to
mention
something
about
community
right,
so
we're
all
about
community
in
the
sense
that
it
doesn't
make
sense
to
grow
food
for.
L
You're,
like
community,
driven
and
empowering
communities
to
grow
their
own
food
and
and
beyond
that,
it's
empowering
other
communities
to
fund
other
communities
right.
So
it's
global
communities
are
focused
on
solving
a
food
chain
system
right.
So
how
can
we
create
a
more
decentralized
system
through
communities
right
and
also
that's
where
compatibility
come
in,
so
it's
not
only
about
raise
or
what
we're
building,
but
it's
also
like
how
can
we
tap
in
and
how
can
we
help
contribute,
for
example,
for
a
cleaner
energy
grid
right?
How
can
we
like
match
a
wild
vision
here?
L
S
Nice
yeah
the
community
and
like
with
a
vertical
farm
you're.
It
really
makes
sense
to
get
communities
around
it,
and
then
they
start
seeing
the
value
from
it,
and
it's
just
really
cool.
Then
you
expand
it
using
blockchain
near
protocol.
You
know
things
like
that:
you're
leveraging
the
near
blockchain
system,
you
know
what
I
mean
and
then
you're
connecting
with
mark
to
get
some
data,
and
this
is
all
coming
together.
X
S
X
S
X
Like
that,
I
think
one
of
the
points
that
I
wanted
to
bring
earlier
when
you're
talking
about
data
that
people
here
that
perhaps
are
interested
in
the
refi
space
should
know.
This
is
a
massive
data
problem
like
even
though
we've
agreed
as
a
society
and
as
a
world
in
our
2030
goals,
we
haven't
even
agreed
on
how
to
track
each
metric
in
a
way
that
is
interoperable
amongst
all
the
countries.
Surprise,
surprise!
X
Some
of
the
things
that
we're
talking
about
is
how
do
we
bring
the
innovation
web
3
to
traditional
industries.
So
I
do
a
lot
of
work
in
offshore
wind
and,
if
you
know
a
lot
about
offshore
wind
like
there's
a
lot
of
turbulence
from
those
massive
like
windmills
and
actually
there
is
in
the
next
five
years,
a
massive
amount
of
windmills
that
need
to
be
decomposed.
X
X
Y
X
Think
that
these
wicked
problems
that
the
world
has
is
what
I'm
looking
at
through
the
lenses
of
technology
and
the
fund
and-
and
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
the
guys
brought
up
earlier-
that's
still
not
happening-
is
the
conversation
with
the
regulators.
The
conversations
beyond
is
this
a
security?
If
it's
a
carbon
credit
or
not
right,
we
need
institutions.
X
So
these
political
plans,
you
know
every
single,
large
corporate
enterprise
has
an
esg
fund
goal
or
reporting
criteria
and
they're
still
lost
in
some
sort
of
like
digital
transformation
strategy
from
a
large
mckenzie
on
you
know,
am
I
reporting
on
recycling,
so
I
think
on
the
refi
stage.
I
hope
a
lot
of
these
conversations
are
about.
You
know
founders
here,
acknowledging
that
they
need
more
founders,
that
we
need
more
capital,
more
founders,
to
build
all
the
pieces
to
try
to
make
sense
of
this
mess
we've
made
in
the
world
yeah.
S
X
W
And
climate
science,
if
you
don't
know
the
trajectory
we're
on
from
an
emissions
perspective
and
what
we
need
to
do
to
stay
in
line
with
the
long-term
goals
of
the
paris
agreement
in
terms
of
limiting
global
warming
to
two
degrees
centigrade,
this
century
learn
up
on
it,
it's
quite
a
quite
important
and
we
should
all
be
focused
on
it.
We
only
have
a
few
more
years
left
before
we
can
in
order
to
write
our
wrongs
and.
X
And
I
think
expand
right,
like
I'm,
I'm
doing
like
an
nft
shark
project
in
the
caribbean,
I'm
doing
a
seagrass
like
where
we're
planting
like
grass
on
sea
and
trying
to
find
a
gamification
with
like
a
game
called
heyday.
So
there's
ways
that
I
think
what
has
worked
in
web
2
and
what
problems
we
have
in
the
world
that
you
know
your
creativity
and
the
creativity
of
the
people
around
here
can
really
make
a
change.
S
Yes,
I
mean
that's
this.
I
could
talk
to
you
guys
we're
running
we're
coming
into
the
end
here,
but
man.
This
is
all
stuff
that
really
should
be
deep,
diving
and
talking
about.
I
really
am
so
glad
that
you're
all
on
like
the
leading
space
of
this
and
leading
this
whole
change,
it's
been
great.
So
our
final
question,
so
I
can
get
a
little
day-
is
like
let's
do
the
actionable
takeaways
as
big
or
as
small
as
you
want,
just
something
that
people
hear
sat
for
30
minutes.
Listen
to
this.
S
V
M
V
Answers
to
the
problems
we're
facing
in
in
a
different
way,
and
I
think
this
is
the
space
we
have
the
opportunity
to
do
that
together.
We've
we've
talked
about
interpretability.
We
have
talked
about
different
things
like
that,
but
there
are
maybe
thousands
of
other
subjects
that
we
can
tackle,
and
this
is
a
huge
opportunity
for
us
as
a
whole
to
tackle
this
together.
So
come
join
us
and
if
you
have
an
idea
on
what
you
want
to
bring
to
this
conversation,
let's,
let's
do
it
together.
L
Yeah,
I
would
encourage
climate
action
is
something
we
need
and
a
refi
will
grow
exponentially.
We
see
that
happening
as
well,
so
definitely
invite
everyone
to
come
into
the
space.
There's
not
only
vertical
farms,
reforestation,
but
also
oceans.
There's
problems
all
over
the
world
can
be
solved
through
coordination
mechanisms
like
the
ones
blockchain
allow
us
to
leverage
so
yeah,
but
beyond
that
climate
action
beyond
being
a
need,
it's
also
a
huge
financial
opportunity
right,
so
incentives
are
aligned
for
us
to
make
it
as
humanity.
L
S
X
S
M
W
S
Awesome
well,
this
has
been
a
really
fun
panel
and
I
think
that,
like
refi,
I
want
it
to
be
that
it
should
be
cool,
because
what
you
guys
are
doing
is
really
fun
and
you
know,
I
think,
there's
a
time
to
change
the
narrative,
and
I
really
am
appreciative
of
what
you
all
are
doing.
Thank
you
so
much
and
have
a
great
rest
of
your
conference.
Thank
you.
Everybody
for
listening.
C
So
you
all
just
learn
about
how
blockchain
can
be
a
positive
force
for
the
climate
and
help
change
the
world.
Your
next
panel
is
going
to
touch
on
how
blockchain
can
help
change
the
fan,
experience
and
explore
the
future
of
fandom.
The
title
is
cell
gp
and
oracle
integrating
web
3
into
the
future
of
fandom.
We
have
amma
elroy
from
oracle
warren
jones
from
sale,
gp
and
chris
gent.
As
your
wonderful
moderator
from
the
near
foundation.
AB
All
right,
hey
guys,
we're
we're
here
really
to
talk
about
web
3
fan
engagement,
sports,
how
all
that's
going
to
work
together,
what
the
opportunities
are
and
really
where
the
space
is
going,
but
we've
got
some
guys
that
are
super
qualified
next
to
me.
Talking
about
it!
So
I'd
love
for
you
guys
to
introduce
yourselves
where
you're
from
what
you're
excited
about
in
web
3
and
then
we'll
dive
in
sure.
AC
Help
you
fantastic,
my
name
is
amir
rawi.
I
work
for
oracle
sports
director
and
basically
my
role
is
to
help
our
sports
partners
using
data
and
technology
to
drive
value
to
the
fans
and
on
the
on
the
track
or
on
the
page
or
on
the
water.
Before
joining
oracle,
I
used
to
work
for
four
different
industries.
I
work
for
tottenham
spur
in
football
club.
I
work
in
teleco
for
vodafone
and
I
work
for
barclay.
Cars
for
financial
services.
Y
My
name
is
warren
jones,
I'm
the
chief
technology
officer
at
cell
gp,
with
a
very
new
sport,
we're
three
years
old,
so
we've
been
working
to
get
foiling
catamarans.
I
think
you've
all
seen
the
the
video
outside
fording
catamarans,
going
to
speeds
of,
I
think
a
lot
in
santa
pay.
The
last
event
we
had
99.94
kilometers
an
hour,
so
huge
speeds
of
of
flying
catamarans
around
the
around
the
racetrack.
Y
AB
So,
whether
it's
c
or
on
land,
obviously
sports
are
playing
a
big
role
across
blockchains
and
layer
ones
for
from
an
adoption
standpoint.
So
it'd
be
great
to
hear
a
little
bit
about
you
know
as
you
look
at
fandom
as
a
whole
right
there
there's
challenges
today
without
the
technology,
so
it'd
be
great
to
hear
umar
a
little
bit
about
the
challenges
you
see
and
the
things
that
we're
facing
right
now
beyond
just
getting
even
to
blockchain
adoption.
AC
Yeah
I
mean
sports
are
no
different
to
any
other
industries
that
we
work
with.
We
see
the
disruption
in
sports
by
data
technology
and
innovation,
and
if
you
look
at
the
sports
moving
from
a
local
fan
to
global
fans,
that
creates
a
huge
opportunity
for
sports
brands
like
sale,
gp
and
others,
but
equally
as
well,
create
a
big
challenge
for
them
in
terms
of
how
they
will
be
able
to
engage
with
those
global
fans.
I
used
to
work
when
I
was
working
in
spurs.
AC
AB
Y
Y
So
if
I
produce
that
data
that
data
is
mine,
with
cell
gp
we're
an
open
source
data
partner,
so
everything
that
we
get
one
team
can
see
what
another
team
is
doing
and-
and
everything
is
open
to
that
point
of
view,
so
we
wanted
to
have
the
same
way
of
thinking
for
our
nft
strategy.
We
want
the
fan
to
be
able
to
look
what's
behind
the
scenes.
What's
going
on
in
within
clgp
how
the
boat
is
working.
Where
does
all
the
data
go?
How
does
that
work
this?
AB
Very
cool
I
mean,
I
think,
from
from
my
perspective,
when
you're
thinking
about
sports
as
a
whole,
whether
you're
on
land
or
or
on
the
water.
All
this
is
about
bringing
people
together
right,
so
we're
here
about
2
000
people,
so
community
really
coming
together.
How
do
you
guys
really
think
about
these
types
of
technologies,
bringing
people
together
into
physical
spaces
and
and
even
connecting
the
the
digital
space
to
actually
drive
more
fan
engagement,
and
not
just
from
the
traditional,
like
you
have
value
to
me
and
buying
that
ticket
like?
AC
So
I
mean
going
back
again
in
terms
of
the
local
versus
global
fan
and
equally
as
well
same
gp
is
one
of
the
amazing
opportunities
compared
to
other
sporting
partners.
Where,
when
we
work
together,
we
are
looking
for.
How
could
we
deliver
innovative
approach
in
terms
of
how
we
engage
with
those
fans?
Any
venues,
whether
it's
a
sale,
gpa
venue
or
a
football
stadium,
have
a
limited
capacity
today.
The
way
that
broadcasters
are
broadcasting,
the
sports
events
is
a
one
solution
fits
all
whether
that
you
are,
and
even
when
you
go
to
an
event.
AC
So
I
mean
again
yeah
I
mean
again
watching
the
grand
prix
from
the
race
from
monza
itself.
As
a
fan,
you
don't
get
to
see
all
the
events
and
you'll
not
really
be
able
to
follow.
What's
happening,
it's
an
amazing
experience
with
the
access
you
get,
but
from
this
pure
sporting
perspective,
it's
not
possible
to
to
feel
and
be
kind
of
immersed
in
that
experience.
AC
AB
Y
So
we
were
talking
about
fan
fandom,
so
we
we,
we
create
a
sale,
gp
app
which
has
the
ability
to
manipulate
data,
so
you
can
go
in
and
you
can
look
at
all
the
data
from
different
boats.
You
have
the
ability
to
view
camera
angles,
so
go
on
move
the
camera
angles
around.
So
all
this
is
available
for
at
the
moment
and
with
the
thanks
from
our
oracle
to
help
us
do
that
we
have
the
ability
to
to
delve
deeper
into
the
data
at
the
moment.
We're
given
a
subset
of
information
to
the
fan.
Y
AB
And,
and
so
unlocking
that
kind
of
stuff
I
mean,
when
you
think,
about
building
apps
and
building
things
for
the
future
and
innovating
right.
Clgp
is
a
much
smaller
footprint
from
an
oracle
perspective.
How
are
you
guys
looking
at
building
with
clgp?
Where
can
the
tech
that
you
guys
are
building
together?
Go
from
there
it'd
be
great
to
think
about
the
other
partnerships
and
relationships
that
you
guys
have.
AC
Yeah,
I
mean
again
just
one
point
about
what
just
warren
was
saying,
which
is
going
back
to
earlier
point
about
the
older
mother
versus
a
new
model
from
a
traditional
broadcast
model.
Where
again,
some
of
you
perhaps
are
football
fans
and
you're
a
liverpool
fan
and
is
a
liverpool
tv
which
is
exists.
A
man
united
tv,
but
I
mean
again
hardly
anyone
is
using
it
and
it
costs
fortune
just
to
deliver
those
type
of
channels
to
a
very
few
people,
but
with
the
example
as
warren
was
sharing
about.
AC
The
second
screen
experience
you're,
actually
enhancing
that
experience
to
the
fans
going
back
again
to
your
point
chris
about
how
we
are
working
with
other
kind
of
a
sports
brand.
I
mean
again
it's
about
how
we
can
come
together,
and
this
is
a
great
example.
I
mean
again
near
clgp
oracle
coming
together,
and
this
doesn't
happen
often
by
the
way
in
sports,
most
of
the
sports
brands.
They
sign
a
sponsorship
deal
and
they
want
to
deliver
value
to
that,
sponsor
whether
that
is
in
ticketing
or
giving
them
exclusive
experiences.
AC
But
what
we
are
trying
to
build
together
here,
which
is
the
loyalty
program,
is
how
we
tap
into
the
expertise
from
each
of
those
partners
in
order
to
deliver
a
value
to
the
fans
and
bringing
them
closer
to
the
experience
what
sports
fan
wants.
Is
they
want
to
be
part
of
that
experience
that
has
been
delivered
by
sports?
They
want
to
be
associated
with
the
sale,
gp
brand
or
one
of
the
teams
and
we're
giving
them
the
means
to
do
that.
AB
That's
amazing
and-
and
I
know,
oracle
as
a
whole
has
been
focused
on
kind
of
fan-
loyalty
found
engagement
for
quite
some
time,
winning
some
awards
across
some
products.
You
know,
as
you
guys
think
about
what
does
that
future.
Look
like
the
learnings
best-in-class
user
experience
like
where,
where
can
things
go
from
here
from
a
build
perspective?
Are
there
areas
that
you're
looking
at
and
playing
with,
or
wanting
to
play
with
more.
Y
U
Y
We
know
how
to
do
a
web
2
version,
but
what
what's
the
what's
the
difference
within
with
web
3,
and
how
can
we
build
this
on
chain
as
well
and
also
the
sustainability
aspect
of
it
as
well?
You
know
cell
gp
is
built
on
sustainability
values
and
how
can
we
be
sustainable
when
we're
thinking
of
this
technology
and
we
move
this
around
as
well.
AB
And
so
thinking
about
scalability
right,
the
the
teams
that
you
mentioned
the.
What
does
the
scale
of
something
like
that
look
like,
because
I
think,
when
we're
looking
at
mass
adoption,
this
really
is
about
scale,
and
one
of
the
differentiators
for
near
is
its
ability
to
scale
I'd
love
to
hear
even
you
know,
what
does
that
funnel
look
like?
How
do
we
get
to
those
masses.
AC
AC
AB
So
really
what
you're
talking
about
is
bringing
the
thing
closer
to
the
sport
closer
to
the
team
and
really
creating
those
new
relationship
dynamics
and
from
a
web
3
perspective,
to
unlock
that
you
know
thinking
of
clgp
having
been
to
a
number
of
the
events,
it's
a
newer
sport
right.
It's
growing
fan
base,
it's
not
the
mass
ticketed
event
and
I
think
primitive
wise.
AB
We
talk
about
this
a
lot
we've
got
things
like
the
dow
being
launched
and
a
team
being
owned
for
the
first
time,
really
close
to
a
sport
and
think
about
the
data
that
can
come
through
that
and
the
access
it'd
be
great
to
even
hear
how
what
do
you
think
that
could
look
like?
I
know
product
development's
still
underway,
but
are
there
things
that
excite
you
most
about
the
opportunity
there?
Because,
if
you
think
about
applications,
it
sounds
like
the
first
time
to
really
be
able
to
bring
those
things
together.
Y
Totally,
you
know,
with
the
crowd
twist
application
that
oracle
is
building
and
how
it
can
integrate
with
the
near
blockchain
as
well
is,
is
going
to
be
really
really
interesting
aspect.
How
can
we
get
more
fans
to
be
engaged
in
what
we
do?
How
can
we
give
experiences
of
where
what
the
more
things
you
do
for
within
sale
gp?
So
all
those
type
of
things
are
really
interesting
for
us
and
how
we
get
to
that
point
and.
AC
Again,
going
back
to
the
same
point:
how
would
you
get
to
those
masses?
You
need
to
kind
of
realize
and
understand
that
you
are
catering
from
a
diverse
fan
base
who
some
of
them
maybe
is
still
on
the
on
the
adult
one
using
web
2.0
and
some
of
them
may
be
adopted
already
the
web
3..
So
how
would
you
be
able
to
deliver
and
experience
that
catering
for
all
those
fans
and
the
program
and
the
kind
of
the
loyalty
program
that
we
are
building?
AB
One
so
thinking
about
things
like
nfts
being
a
token
type
that
could
give
you
access
to
very
exclusive
premium
experiences,
whether
that's
in-app
or
on-site,
I'd
love
to
hear.
I
know
russell
was
talking
a
little
bit
about
that
yesterday,
and
these
experiences
are
things
that
have
never
been
able
to
have
access
to
potentially
whether
it's
custom,
audio
and
in
the
app
or
during
streaming
would
love
to
hear
what
gets
you
excited.
I
know
you
do
the.
AB
Y
We
we
have
a
an
area
where
we
build
the
boats,
it
it's
it's
like
a
pit
lane
in
formula
one,
the
the
the
ability
to
to
walk
around
to
see
the
behind
the
scenes
that's
available
there
out
on
the
water.
We
we
have
programs
there
where
people
can
go
out
on
the
water
and
and
follow
the
boats
around
these
are
you
know,
they're
not
available
to
everybody
and
it's
yeah.
It's
pretty
amazing
and.
Y
AD
AB
And
so
as
we
look
at
that
and
the
ability
for
a
fan
to
get
closer,
I
know
the
opportunity
of
something
like
an
nft
could
find
you
speaking
with
the
the
athlete
or
with
the
coaches
and
those
kinds
of
things,
even
in
in
between
races,
right
so
sub
gp
goes
almost
month
to
month,
and
it
is
scaling
its
total
races,
but
it'd
be
great
to
hear
what
is
that
access
like?
How
do
you
bring
fans
closer,
potentially.
Y
Well,
we
have
the
ability
to
for
a
fan
to
actually
talk
to
the
to
the
athletes
on
the
boat
at
the
at
the
time
they're
in
downtime
of
racing.
So
we
have
11-minute
races,
11
minutes
to
15-minute
races
between
that.
Then
they
they
get
set
up
ready
for
the
next
race.
The
opportunity
there
is
to
have
a
conversation
with
the
with
a
with
a
fan.
Really
they
can
tell
them
what
they
did
right
or
wrong.
That's.
AC
Amazing
and
chris
you
touched
on
a
really
important
point,
which
is
a
lot
of
the
sports
brand
that
we
work
with.
One
of
their
biggest
challenges
is
that
they
have
during
the
event
whether
it's
kind
of
the
grand
prix
in
the
weekend,
the
fan
is
actively
engaged.
But
what
do
you
do
between
races?
What
do
you
do?
Pre-Events?
AC
AB
Y
Yeah
exactly
right,
but
but,
as
I
said,
it's
it's
endless,
it's
possibility
is
endless
what
we
could,
what
can
offer,
but
it's
how
the
fan
integrates
with
sale.
Gp
is
the
bit
that
we,
we
really
need
to
to
work
out
and
we're
we're
working
with
with
both
both
your
teams
on
on
how
we
we
can
change
a
fan,
centric
approach,
but
not
copy
what
everybody
else
is
doing
as
well.
This
needs
to
be
a
web
three
take
on
it
and
how
do
we
do
that
is
is
pretty
interesting.
Y
We
we've
we've
been.
We
had
a
gallery
an
nft
gallery
in
in
chicago
that
was,
that
was
pretty
cool.
How
we,
where
people
interacted
with
the
nfts,
they
could
purchase
anything
if
they
needed
to
as
well,
using
all
the
tech
stack
from
satori
and
mint
base
as
well.
It
was.
It
was
pretty
pretty
pretty
cool
on
how
we
do
that,
and
it's
now
how
we
going
to
move
that
into
our
clgp
tech
stack
as
well.
How
that
integrates
as
well
is
is
going
to
be
the
fun
part.
AB
M
Y
You
know
we're
we're
at
a
web
2
company
moving
into
the
web
3
space,
so
we're
still
going
to
have
some
web
2
customers
so
that
frictionless
wallet
approach
needs
to
happen
so
we're
working
and
how
would
that
work
if,
if
a
web
2
user,
we're
just
going
to
see
that?
How
can
we
work
for
a
web
3
environment
so
that,
that's
that
that's
our
challenge.
AB
AC
Yeah,
I
mean
again
going
back
to
the
same
point
that
we
were
talking
about
one
of
the
really
exciting.
What
make
us
really
exciting
is
when
we
were
doing
those
workshop
with
the
team
from
gp
and
the
team
was
near.
We
are
kind
of
redefining
some
of
the
thing
that
has
been
even
thought
about
before
in
the
sports
industry.
AC
I
got
a
privilege
to
work
with
many
of
our
sports
partners
and
one
of
the
thing
that
makes
me
excited
about
this
project,
specifically
that
we
are
trying
to
create
things
that
has
not
happened
before
in
the
sports
industry.
Try
to
bring
three
key
partners
or
big
brands
together
in
order
to
deliver
an
immersive
fan
experience
to
those
fans.
That's
warning
us
touching
on.
How
will
you
betray
bridge
the
world
of
web
2.0
to
the
web
3
and
a
frictionless
experience?
How
would
you
redeem
those
point
to
an
nft
and
blockchain
technology?
AB
And
even
so
thinking
pure,
like
commercial
opportunities
right,
you
guys
are
each
running
a
business
you're
in
sports
for
a
reason,
and
so
thinking
about
metaverse
and
and
nfts
and
all
of
that
stuff.
Obviously
we're
working
with
sale,
gp,
we're
working
with
you
guys
on
a
lot
of
this,
but
even
for
from
an
oracle
perspective.
Are
you
guys
looking
at
this
space
as
a
whole?
AC
From
an
oracle
perspective,
there
is
a
no
better
platform
than
showing
the
power
of
oracle
solution
than
sports
and
clgb
right.
There
is
nothing
else
I
mean
again.
I
can
go
and
talk
about
how
great
oracle
solution
is
helping
manufacturing
organization,
but
I
mean
again
come
on
it's
not
as
exciting
as
when
you
talk
about.
How
is
oracle
solution
are
helping
a
certain
team
to
win
races
or
helping
a
fan
to
engage
with
with
their
favorite
athletes,
and
this
is
kind
of
driving
to
us.
Y
Now
I
agree
with
that,
because
you
know
we
we
built
our
stack
on
oracle
at
the
moment
and
everything
that
we
do.
We
you
know
to
get
those
milliseconds
back
and
how
we
be
able
to
see
how
fast
the
boats
are
going.
That's
all
built
on
the
oracle
or
oracle
stack.
How
can
we
pivot
and
move
over
to
a
to
keep
what
we're
doing,
but
also
have
the
ability
to
go
stay
on
to
have
assets
on
on
chain
as
well?
So
that's
going
to
be
really
exciting
for
us.
Well,.
AB
And
it
sounds
like
to
a
degree
there's
an
opportunity
here,
even
around
like
fantasy
right.
So,
if
you're
able
to
plug
in
the
amount
of
data
streams,
you
guys
have
going
being
able
to
engage
someone
in
a
non-traditional
sport
in
a
lot
of
ways.
I'd
love
to
hear
even
how
that
might
excite
you
or
or
not
it.
Y
It's
exciting,
you
know
we,
we
do
a
lot
of
augmented
reality
if
you've
seen
the
video
where
we're
with
with
water,
you
can't
have
a
you
can't
paint
anything
on
there,
it's
water,
so
we
we
invented
augmented
reality.
The
way
we
can
put
the
the
course
the
the
the
the
area
of
sailing
on
there.
So
we
utilize
that
then,
and
we
move
that
around
so
that
the
possibilities
of
utilizing
that
in
other
industries
or
other
technologies,
it's
something
we're
looking
at
as
well.
So
we're
pretty
we're
pretty
excited
about
that.
AB
Right,
well,
I
know
metaverse
typically
lends
into
conversations
with
gaming.
I
know
that
there's
an
irregular
game
today,
when
I
think
about
access
and
fandom
and
the
ability
for
you
to
maybe
collect
a
certain
subset
of
nfts,
for
example,
or
collectibles
being
able
to
get
into
that
it'd
be
amazing
to
see.
Could
you
actually
build
a
new
regatta
game
that
is
web3
based,
and
could
you
get
access
through
something
like
the
the
oracle
activations
and
build.
AC
Yeah,
I
mean
again
going
back
in
terms
of
the
model
changing
because
we
are
not
re
again
as
we
are
trying
to
co-innovate
in
terms
of
to
engage
and
finding
the
way
to
engage
with
those
fans.
But
this
is
kind
of.
If
you
think
about
it.
Long
long
time
ago,
people
used
to
kind
of
collect
cards
about
this
force.
People
you
want
to
have
merchandising,
but
again
that
merchandise
have
a
limited
reach
to
the
people
around
the
world.
AB
One,
so
that's
actually
interesting
I'd,
say:
let's
dive
into
that,
a
little
bit
from
a
commercialization
perspective.
So
really
what
you're
saying
is
the
the
pie
is
growing
in
a
lot
of
ways
and
the
opportunity
to
truly
engage
people
in
a
meaningful
way.
Super
fandom
and
word
of
mouth
are
some
of
the
like
strongest
advocates
for
sport
for
technologies.
AC
I
mean
this
is
exactly
what
we
try
to
do.
I
mean
again,
you
definitely
need
to
kind
of
cater
for
your
kind
of
existing
fan
base,
I'm
looking
and
analyzing
what
the
fans
are
interested
and
want
to
do,
and
this
is
what,
as
warren
was
saying
in
terms
of
how,
firstly,
to
get
them
to
sign
up
and
again
another
example
from
any
of
the
fantasy
league.
AC
They
have
millions
of
fans
sitting
there,
but
you're
not
able
to
commercialize
those
lands
or
even
building
a
general
relationship
or
a
pure
engagement
with
them,
and
this
is
exactly
what
we're
trying
to
do
here
with
the
loyalty
program
that
we're
building
with
clgp
is
how
we
are
able
to
building
and
bringing
the
fans.
If
they
change
any
data
with
us,
then
we
are
able
to
personalize
that
experience
to
them
the
more
they
personalize
the
experience,
the
more
we
bring
them
into
their
phantom
level.
Y
At
lgp
we
look
at
it
as
technology
first,
how
can
we
use
technology
to
to
to
reach
the
fan
to
be
better?
What
we
do
to
to
be
able
to
more
people
to
watch
what
we
are
and
and
from
that
point
of
view,
then
we
can
work
out
then,
what
technology
we
use
and
what
platform
we
use
et
cetera,
but
for
us,
it's
all
about
technology
and
how
we
move
that
forward.
AB
One
so
we're
obviously
in
in
season
three
and
we're
moving
to
the
next
race
in
another
two
weeks.
The
24th,
25th
and
cadiz.
So
it'd
be
great.
If
folks
are
curious
about
what
this
is
all
about,
what
the
teams
are
building
how
you
can
start
to
experience
fandom
in
a
new
way
and
go
to
the
clgp
booth,
there
will
be
tickets
available
for
the
next
event,
so
it'll
come
out
experience,
it
you're,
probably
thinking
sailboat
racing.
I
don't
understand
this.
What
is
it
I?
AB
I
think
you
can't
believe
it
till
you
actually
see
it
up
close
and
really
see
what
these
guys
are
doing.
The
amount
of
tech
that
they're
pumping
through
the
tech
faces
every
weekend
and
being
able
to
get
that
up
close
and
personal
with
it
will
really
probably
change
the
game.
Is
there
anything
you
guys
like
like
to
close
with.
Y
AC
C
Huge
thank
you
to
our
previous
panelists
for
that
wonderful
discussion.
I
hope
you
learned
a
lot
I
sure
did,
but
now
we've
got
one
which
is
very
close
to
my
heart,
we're
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
how
daos
get
done.
Well,
actually,
it
says
get
work
done,
but
I
thought
that
would
be
a
bit
more
punchier.
AE
Gm
gm
friends
because
it's
clearly
still
the
morning
for
everyone,
hope
you
had
a
wonderful
evening
out
last
night.
As
a
reminder,
there
is
an
incredible
after
party
that
your
near
con
team
has
planned
for
you.
There
is
going
to
be
an
amazing
world-class
dj
that
you
most
definitely
don't
want
to
miss.
So
keep
your
eyes
peeled
for
the
official
near
khan.
AE
Closing
party,
as
david
mentioned
earlier
today,
we're
going
to
have
an
incredible
panel
about
dao's
and
how
they
get
things
done,
and
with
that
we
will
actually
start
by
introducing
every
single
one
of
these
panelists
and
I'd
love
it.
If
you
can
tell
us
a
little
bit
about
what
your
tao
or
dao
product
does,
so
that
the
audience
has
a
little
bit
more
context,
maybe
adrian
you
can
kick
us
off
absolutely.
AF
So
we
transitioned
into
a
dao
called
the
kin
dao
and
we
are
focused
on
collaboratively
owning
physical
land
to
create
self-sustaining
food
systems
in
microeconomies,
practicing
this
decentralized
governance
in
person
and
rehabilitating
our
relationship
with
earth
and
then
from
the
kindell.
We
started.
Another
project
called
primordia
dao,
where
we
are
onboarding
a
hundred
dolls
to
near
by
the
end
of
the
year,
and
all
of
these
dals
are
traditionally
excluded
communities
and
folks,
who
are
focused
on
social
good
projects
and
sustainability
projects.
AG
I'm
jordan
gray
and
I
work
on
astro
dial,
which
is
a
tool
a
website
that
lets
anybody.
Everyday
users
harness
the
power
of
daos
under
the
hood.
There
are
the
sputnik
dow
contracts,
which
is
the
audited
diamond
hardened
code.
That
allows
you
to
do
your
treasury
and
governance
and
everything
else,
and
what
astro
does
is
expose
all
of
that
in
a
web
interface
for
anybody
to
use
in
the
middle
there's.
T
Yeah
thanks,
so
I'm
stanley,
I'm
from
cornerstone
dao
so
cornerstone,
is
the
medical
government's
hub
on
near-end,
aurora
and
octopus.
Basically,
it's
the
dow
of
dao's
carlson
treasury
accumulates
down
tokens
from
other
protocols
and
then
lets
cornerstone
users
use
one
token
to
decide
how
the
treasury
uses
and
votes
without
a
token.
So
that's
how
we
achieve
mental
governance,
because
we
identify
the
problem
of
scattered
governance
in
the
current
crypto
space
and
it's
so
hard
for
retail
users
for
honorary
people
to
actually
feel
the
power
of
doubt
to
actually
be
incentivized
to
vote.
AE
That's
really
wonderful,
and
so
what
I'm
really
hearing
is
that
these
are
all
different
kind
of
decentralized
organizations
that
seem
to
have
different
different
purposes,
and
so
I
was
wondering
if
one
of
you
might
be
able
to
talk
me
through
the
different
types
of
dials
we're
seeing
right
now,
because
I
hear
a
lot
about
investment
doubts.
I
hear
about
dows
of
dows.
I
hear
about
other
things,
so
maybe
maybe
jordan
since
astro
dao
is
really
you
know
the
the
creator
of
dallas.
You
can
tell
us
what
you're
seeing
yeah.
AG
AG
There's
a
lot
of
record
labels,
visual
labels,
artists,
collaborating
and
that's
very
dear
to
my
heart.
That's
how
I
got
into
this
whole
web
3
space
was
through
my
art
and
tech,
non-profit
that
I've
been
running
for
several
years
and
seeing
all
of
that
vibrancy
and
all
of
that
enablement
on
the
platform
is
just
so
exciting
and
so
cool.
AE
Wonderful
and-
and
I
think
ultimately,
what
these
dow
seem
to
be
drawing
on
is
really
an
innate
human
desire
for
connection
and
coordination,
and
so
I
was
wondering
adrian
if
you
could
talk
a
little
bit
about
how
people
come
together
and
collaborate
through
daos.
It
seems
like
there's
a
an
end
goal
or
a
purpose,
but
how
does
that
actually
happen?
At
least
in
your
experience?
AF
So
I
don't
come
from
the
tech
space
like
jordan,
I'm
also
an
artist
and
community
builder
and
majority
of
the
communities
that
I'm
bringing
into
the
dial
space
are
also
in
that
realm.
So
we
are
used
to
working
together.
You
know
we're
used
to
collaborating
and
bringing
all
of
our
assets
together
and
making
things
happen
under
very
precarious
scenarios.
AF
So,
when
we're
given
a
tool
to
be
able
to
put
all
of
this
together,
it's
kind
of
easy
for
us,
but
it
also
is
something
to
think
about
when
we're
moving
in
this
space
that
we're
living
in
a
place
that
we're
not
used
to
working
together
in
this
way.
So
the
way
that
we're
building
and
bringing
all
these
dials
into
this
space
is
one-on-one
relationships.
It's
all
about
building
trust,
and
we
talk
a
lot
about
having
a
trustless
blockchain.
AF
T
Yeah,
for
sure
I
mean
I
think
that
was
actually
like,
derived
from
the
very
first
original
idea
of
human
organization,
which
is
you
know
we
started
from
you,
know
simple
democracy,
one
token
one
vote
or
one
people,
one
vote
and,
to
be
honest,
most
styles
are
still
utilizing
them
kind
of
them.
You
know
until
now
that's
the
most
simple
one
and
we
also
have
more
sort
of
more.
T
You
know
complex
mechanisms
like
quadratic
voting,
which
actually
tries
to
try
to
deter
the
you
know
the
influence
from
whales
tries
to
you
know
to
get
more
a
more
eco
sort
of
you
know,
right
to
our
vultures
and
also
we're
seeing,
I
think,
we're
seeing
you
know
more
complex
structures
right
now,
so
because
there
are
many
topics
that
you
cannot
really
just
solve
through
one
time
of
voting
right,
you
have
to
do.
You
know
multiple
rounds
of
discussion
and
deliberation,
and
you
have
to
first
refine
the
topic.
T
You
have
to
refine
it
multiple
times
and
finally
identify
to
define
the
real
problem
that
we're
trying
to
discuss.
I
think
this
is
also
where
dao
should,
you
know,
should
work
on.
So
I
think
we're
seeing
the
collaboration
between
you
know
between
on-chain
voting,
off-chain
voting
and
also
discussion
on
forums.
I
think
those
are
all
very
integral
parts
of
adele:
it's
not
only
about
evolving
mechanism.
It's
about
a
community
actually
talking
about
some
stuff
together.
T
Yes,
I
think
you
know
we're
we're
actually
seeing
the
you
know
the
involvement
of
of
dell
over
time
I
mean,
I
think,
they're
still
quite
you
know
quite
simple
compared
to
over
existing.
You
know,
let's
say
government
organizations
we
see
every
day,
but
I
think
we're
sort
of
you
know
reliving
the
human
history
and
change
right
now
and
it's
great
to
really
see
all
the
progress.
AE
AF
Astro
dao
is
an
easy
one
that
is
honestly
the
home
for
everything
that
we've
been
doing
it's
great
because
it
is
accessible
for
the
folks
that
we're
bringing
on
and
also
ourselves,
we
had
to
teach
ourselves
before
we
even
came
into
this
space
and
a
lot
of
the
other
chains
that
we've
experienced
seemed
really
really
hard
to
get
into.
There
was
a
huge
barrier
of
entry
and
so
near
itself.
That's
why
we're
here
is
the
barrier
to
entry
is
very
low.
AF
It's
accessible
and
astro
dao
is
in
alignment
with
that
as
well,
so
absolutely
easy
to
use
it's
where
all
of
the
governance
is
it's
where
the
assets
are
and
also
having
a
governance
form
is
really
helpful
too,
to
be
able
to
reference
all
of
the
decisions
in
the
conversations
off-chain.
So
when
you
are
making
decisions
on
astrodollar,
wherever
you
are,
then
you
can
reference
those
things
as
well.
AF
AE
AF
That's
for
the
forum,
but
it's
up
to
you.
You
can
still
do
that
depending
on
how
big
your
community
is
for
those
more
important
decisions,
you're
going
to
want
them
on
chain
and
the
beauty
of
it
is,
then
you
have
transparency
and
you
can
always
go
back
and
look
at
who
voted
on
what
and
why
and
even
if
you
know,
bad
actors
are
in
the
space
or
something
fails,
you
can
go
back
and
you
can
look
instead
of
it
being
this
mysterious.
What
happened.
AE
AG
Yeah,
I
can
speak
to
that
a
bit
with
the
configuration
of
daos.
We
have
been
talking
about
kind
of
like
what
those
are
a
little
bit,
and
I
think
that
people
have
an
idea
of
what
they
are
and
that
gets
kind
of
seen
as
the
default,
but
dallas
can
be
really
flexible
and
astro
allows
you
to
do
things
that
aren't
necessarily
flat
where
there's
thousands
of
dows
and
different
hierarchies
and
things
different
groups
and
then
to
get
to
the
configuration
of
that
quorum.
That
cut
off
for
how
the
votes
pass.
AG
Each
group
has
its
own
cut
off,
so
50
is
what
people
would
imagine
being
the
default
and
then,
depending
on
what
kind
of
size
that
group
has.
If
it's
a
group
of
three
people,
fifty
percent
is
probably
fine.
If
it's
a
group
of
five
thousand
or
five
million
people,
you're,
probably
going
to
need
to
adjust
your
quorum
because
you're
not
going
to
get
5
million
people
or
even
200
million
people
to
vote
on
something.
AG
AE
AG
AG
It's
just
a
list
of
accounts
that
are
allowed
to
take
actions,
and
then
you
can
say
of
the
groups
of
people
that
you
configure
for
those
which
people
are
allowed
to
put
proposals
forward,
and
that
could
be
everybody
on
the
chain
or
a
small
group
of
people
or
some
holders
of
an
nft
or
a
fungible
token.
And
then
you
also
get
to
say
who
votes
on
things
and
again,
you've
got
all
the
configuration
options
there.
So
the
complexity
grows
quickly.
Those
are
just
two
things
and
different
lists
of
users.
AG
AE
Wonderful,
so
it
seems
that
just
like
in
real
life,
you
still
need
community
managers
to
help
run
this
thing,
and
so
adrian,
how
do
you
find
the
those
people
who
are
going
to
be
responsible
for
managing
these
deaths?
Are
they
basically,
naturally
people
who
are
already
managing
the
communities
and
and
doing
that
in
in
the
real
world?.
AF
AE
T
Yes,
so
you
know,
if
you
think
about
it,
like
one
blockchain,
it's
more
like
like
a
nation
right,
it's
more
like
a
nation
country,
it's
more
closer
to
relation
to
a
nation
country
than
let's
say
a
company,
so
there
will
naturally
be
you
know,
multiple
organizations.
You
know,
let's
say
within
that
nation,
but
you
know
you
would
somehow
want
some
sort
of
you
know
overall
governance,
right,
meta,
governance.
On
top
of
all
those
you
know
also
scattered
and
separate
individual
organizations.
I
think
that's
you
know.
Let's
say
if
you
are
generally
bullish
on
there.
T
T
Why,
like
that's
what
motivated
us,
you
know
to
first,
you
know
to
first
build
on
a
meta
conference,
sort
of
a
front
yeah
and
also,
I
think
it
actually
increases
the
overall
efficiency
of
the
ecosystem,
because
there
can
be
conflict
of
interest
within,
let's
say
near
ecosystem,
it's
very
natural,
but
you
really
need
that
one
party
to
actually
reconcile
all
those
interests
and
without
meta
governance,
it's
very
hard.
Let's
say
two
particles
competing
together.
Is
you
know
all
you
know
their
users
all
want?
T
AF
AF
So
the
future
of
daos,
I
think,
dows-
are
going
to
absolutely
expand,
as
people
start
to
understand
them
more
and
as
we
do
and
people
start
to
come
into
the
space
more.
I
encourage
us
to
continue
to
reference
and
collaborate
with
the
experts
in
collaboration
right.
We
have
experts
in
all
different
types
of
industries,
but
who
do
we
go
to
when
we're
thinking
about
who
has
knowledge
and
collaboration,
and
there
are
two
groups
of
people
or
two
groups
of
beings
that
are
experts.
AF
The
first
is
nature
if
we
go
into
an
ecosystem,
which
is
what
we're
in
right
now
we're
in
a
natural
ecosystem,
the
near
ecosystem,
you
go
into
a
natural
ecosystem
if
it
has
a
high
level
of
diversity.
That's
a
clear
indication
of
health.
A
lot
of
people
think
that
there's
a
lot
of
competition
that's
happening,
but
actually,
if
you
deeply
study
it,
it's
an
intricate
system
of
collaboration.
AF
These
plants,
in
a
small
space
if
they
do
not
have
the
nutrients
from
the
ground
from
the
soil
they're
going
to
start
making
nutrients
to
share
with
other
plants
and
they're
going
to
start
communicating
with
the
other
plants.
In
order
to
you
know
help
them
if
disease
is
coming,
there's
also
going
to
be
the
ecosystems
that
is
homogeneous,
and
these
are
these
are
not
going
to
be
as
healthy.
AF
So
these
are
the
ones
that
are
not
going
to
be
able
to
regenerate
and
they're
not
going
to
be
able
to
keep
having
the
nutrients
from
the
soil,
because
they're
basically
draining
the
soil.
The
second
expert
in
collaboration
are
indigenous
people
everywhere,
because
they
are
inherently
connected
to
the
land,
so
they
create
their
culture
in
their
society,
based
off
of
the
natural
collaboration.
So
if
we
continue
to
work
with
these
folks,
then
we're
going
to
be
able
to
learn
how
we
can
structure
and
be
in
this
world
in
a
way
with
ease
and
grace
wonderful.
T
Yeah,
I
guess
yeah,
I
think
I
actually
want
to
you
know.
Add
on
you
know,
jordan's
point
you
know
on
the
flexibility
of
dell
configuration.
I
think
that's
actually.
The
first
task
adele
should
do
is
actually
determining
the
framework
of
your
dow,
like
you
have
to.
Actually
you
know
for
group
people
to
agree
upon
one
set
of
of
principles
to
set
up
your
organization,
and
that's
you
know
in
theory
how
we
started
our
nation,
or
you
know
our
nation
country,
and
that's
also
how
that
should
work.
You
know
it's
not
like.
T
You
join
a
dial,
you
just
take
it
for
granted.
You
know
because
that
comes
from
the
owner.
It's
not
like
that.
It
should
be
a
group
of
people
first
through
deliberation
and
and
to
determine.
What's
you
know
our
rules
in
the
future
and
and
after
that's
determined
everyone
just
you
know,
works
according
to
that
rule
to
those
principles
and
then
the
dow
will
you
know,
develop
on
that
on
the
track.
I
think
that's
something
you
know.
I
would
really
want
to
see
more
in
the
future.
AE
AG
I'm
gonna
say
that
dows
are
gonna
rock
the
business
world
in
a
way
that
we
haven't
seen
since
spreadsheets.
They
are
immensely
powerful.
I
think
that
we're
on
the
cusp
of
a
work
revolution,
and
not
only
that
if
we
figure
out
how
to
incent
voting
and
get
people
to
participate
in
democracy,
we're
going
to
fix
it.
So,
let's
fix
democracy
all.
C
Let's
fix
democracy:
let's
do
it,
let's
do
it,
jordan.
Thank
you
so
much
to
a
wonderful
panelist.
Ladies
and
gentlemen,
this
is
the
last
time
I'm
going
to
be
on
stage
today.
You've
all
been
incredible.
Thank
you.
So
much
we're
going
to
take
a
quick
five-minute
break.
I'm
gonna
go
get
really
drunk.
So
if
anybody
wants
to
come
and
join,
let's
do
it.
B
B
B
I
All
right
welcome
back
everyone
so
to
continue
our
afternoon.
We're
on
the
last
stretch.
We're
gonna
go
ahead
and
bring
up
a
panel
of
some
traditional
finance
folks
to
talk
about
going
crypto
and
adopting
or
institutional
adoption
in
a
winter.
So
I'd
like
to
bring
up
cory,
pugh
of
bridge
tower
capital,
jeff
lavoie
from
openweb
collective,
olivier
dong,
from
oman
omuro
and
lula
ledesma
from
coindesk
to
moderate.
AH
AI
Thank
you,
bridgestar
capital.
We've
been
around
about
three
years.
I've
been
affiliated
with
the
blockchain
for
10
years,
primarily
in
the
enterprise
side
of
things,
with
some
of
our
different
businesses.
Then,
three
years
ago
we
got
heavily
involved
in
this
space.
We
went
all
in
so
we
built
an
infrastructure
on
a
global
basis,
so
we
have
offices
in
the
u.s,
singapore,
switzerland
and
soon
japan
and
we've
taken
the
approach
two
years
ago
to
build
infrastructure
and
we
use
the
infrastructure
for
staking
originally.
AI
So
we
have
six
thousand
of
our
own
staking
notes
on
bare
metal
servers
that
are
100
percent,
renewable
energy
and
those
are
in
zurich,
switzerland
and
then
simultaneously,
we
built
our
own
marketplace
with
a
regulated
emphasis
that
institutions
can
have
a
safe
place
through
kyc
proof
of
reserves,
custodial
support
with
wallets,
and
then
we
create
product
within
the
marketplace,
as
well
as
give
an
environment
where
you
have
know
your
customer
proof
of
funds
and
the
safety
for
institutions
to
come
in.
So
we
offer
nfts
in
a
very
customized
way.
AI
We
have
different
staking
solutions,
we'll
provide
an
end-to-end
solution,
branded
for
different
companies
who
want
us
to
run
the
whole
thing
and
then
we've
just
come
up
with
a
product.
We're
launching,
in
fact
near,
is
a
part
of
it
that
we
will
take
a
state
crypto
turn
it
into
a
security
and
run
the
security
down
a
securities
exchange,
and
then
you
will
have
the
ownership
of
that
come
into
the
owner
in
the
form
of
the
state
to
rewards.
AJ
You
may
know
openweb
collective
from
having
run
the
accelerator
program
at
near
for
the
last
several
years.
We
recently
spun
out
at
the
beginning
of
the
year,
and
but
we've
kept
a
lot
of
the
dna
that
we've
built
over
the
last
few
years,
and
so
what
we're
looking
to
do
is
really
invest
across
seed
precede
and
series.
AJ
AH
AD
Sure
so
nomura
is
a
very
traditional
financial
institution.
We
are
a
hundred
year
old,
japanese
headquarter
investment
bank
with
a
global
footprint
and
so
trad
five
by
excellence,
but
we've
been
active
in
the
digital
asset
space
since
2018,
mostly
supporting
on
the
infrastructure
side,
so
we've
incubated
a
custody
platform
that
is
now
live
and
stores
safe,
keeps
few
billions
of
ascetic
custody,
including
for
g7
government.
AD
We
have
invested
across
exchange
settlement
platform,
sto
platform
and
a
few
other
kind
of
more
centralized
kind
of
digital
asset
infrastructure
companies,
and
now
we
are
moving
a
step
further
and
we've
recently
announced
more
like
a
crypto
subsidiary
that
will
get
active
and
support
our
clients,
institutional
clients,
get
access
to
to
crypto
trading
market,
making
asset
management,
product
and
venture
capital
we're
very
keen
to
partner
with
web
free
institutions.
We're
not
going
to
reinvent
the
wheel.
AH
AD
I
think
for
us,
it's
a
no-brainer.
You
know
like
our
traditional
products
are
going
to
be
fundamentally
transformed
by
digital
assets,
whether
it
is
on
the
post
trade
through.
You
know,
t0
settlement
using
blockchain
technology,
whether
it
is
through
central
bank,
digital
currency
that
are
going
to
transform
how
we
have
to
to
deal
with
a
foreign
exchange
or
tokenization
and
the
way
to
raise
capital
for
for
corporate
companies.
AD
The
way
to
do
it,
though,
is
you
can
wait
till
those
technologies
are
becoming
mature
and
starting
to
transform
your
traditional
businesses,
but
by
then
it
will
be
probably
a
bit
too
late
and
today
the
only
asset
class
that
trade
at
scale
with
enough
participants
enough
volume
is
really
crypto.
So
first
there
was
no
choice
to
get
involved
in
crypto
as
a
way
to
really
get
an
early
mover
advantage
into
transforming
our
traditional
businesses
so
yeah,
it's
really
an
investment
for
a
future,
but
on
top
of
it,
we
like
the
asset
class.
AI
Yeah,
I
think
olivier,
says
it
well
for
us
it's.
The
premise.
Is
the
blockchain,
it's
technology
that
when
I
looked
at
it
it's
more
secure,
you
can
transact
globally
it's
speed
and
the
creativity
to
take
traditional
product
and
put
it
in
a
new
form
in
a
way
that
gives
people
access
to
opportunities.
They've
never
had
so.
For
me,
crypto
is
one
mechanism
of
the
blockchain
and
I
think
you've
got
the
enterprise
side,
which
is
going
to
come
along
very
quickly,
but
the
trade
fi.
You
know
you're
getting
a
lot
of
investment
banks.
AI
Institutions
I
mean
nomura
is
a
very,
very
large
investment
bank.
You
see
apollo
and
the
rest
of
them
coming
in,
and
I
think
customers
want
access
to
something
that
is
new,
safer,
more
reliable,
more
secure
and
for
us
it
was
the
global
play.
Quite
honestly,
like
I'm
trying
to
wire
something
to
the
us
to
zurich.
It's
three
weeks
right.
AH
AJ
Yeah,
I
think
I
think,
that's
a
really
great
question,
I'm
going
to
take
it
more
from
the
investing
side
of
things.
I
think,
if
you're
an
institution,
there's
really
three
key
drivers
here,
the
first
one
I
think
everyone's
mentioned
it-
it's
become
an
asset
class.
That's
really
difficult
to
ignore.
If
you
look
at
the
returns
over
a
long
period
of
time,
it's
difficult
to
ignore.
So
that's
number
one
number
two.
AJ
The
technology
is
legit,
it's
been
proven
to
work
and
it's
been
proven
to
potentially
be
extremely
disruptive,
and
so
I
think
a
lot
of
the
institutions
are
seeing
this
as
a
technology
platform
shift
and
that
every
day
that
goes
by
gets
closer
and
closer
to
becoming
reality.
So
that's
what
I
think
people
are
really
interested
about,
and
it's
not
just
the
top
down
people
or
the
bottom-up
people
or
the
people
that
are
focused
on
technology
or
the
people
that
just
want
to
trade
and
speculate
it
brings
in
everyone
from
all
those
different
ecosystems.
AH
Yeah,
something
we
can't
ignore
is
that
we're
like
currently
in
a
bear
market.
Bitcoin
is
down
by
like
70
of
its
all-time
high.
I'm
wondering
if
you
guys
can
speak
a
little
bit
to
how
institutions
are
feeling
about
this,
like
you
guys
and
your
firms
personally
and
like
the
general
mood
amongst
like
trad
phi
institutional
investors,.
AD
Yeah,
it
doesn't
necessarily
help
to
have
you
know
bitcoin
down
70
from
the
peak,
but
in
a
way
it
doesn't
fundamentally
change
our
views.
You
know
the
market
is
cyclical.
We
know
that,
for
those
of
us
who've
been
enough
into
into
crypto.
If
you
look
at
traditional
market,
there
are
cyclical
as
well.
It's
not
like
equities
is
doing
necessary
better
or
you
know
the
certain
foreign
currencies.
AD
So
it's
a
cycle
in
a
way
for
us
as
a
financial
institution.
Investing
and
building
during
the
market
downturn
is
a
good
thing.
Talent
is
more
available
at
more
realistic
price
point.
Frankly,
a
few
months
ago,
it
was
very
difficult
for
us
to
bring
software
developers
with
experience
in
rust
or
solidity.
No
suddenly
they're
becoming
more
affordable
and
willing
to
talk
to
a
traditional
financial
station
on
the
more
investment
side
venture
capital
side.
Now
we
see
valuation
becoming
more
realistic
founders,
taking
a
bit
more
of
a
longer
term
view
to
build.
AD
AD
It's
a
bit
linked
to
the
macro
environment
right
now,
and
now
is
the
right
time
to
put
in
place
the
foundation
as
a
bank.
As
you
know,
all
of
us
in
the
ecosystem
to
to
build
for
when
the
market
is
going
to
come
back-
and
I
just
want
to
say
the
final
one
bitcoin
at
20
000
today
is
very
different
to
bitcoin
at
20
000
three
four
years
ago.
Why.
AD
You
know
many
more
millions
of
written
investors
involved
into
this
and,
on
top
of
it,
institutions
like
us
starting
to
look
at
this.
That's
very
different
to
you
know,
four
or
five
years
ago,
when
it
was,
you
know
a
handful
of
guys.
Looking
at
the
assay
class
regulators,
central
bank
super
nationals
are
all
looking
at
this
and
and
in
a
way
it
makes
the
ecosystem
much
more
much
more
robust.
AH
AI
From
the
very
start,
we
took
a
very
conservative
approach
things
we
did
very
compliant
from
our
company
being
set
up
as
a
public
audited
company
with
deloitte
to
the
products
we
put
in
place,
but
in
2021
I
couldn't
compete
with
2
000
returns
and
you
had
to
go
through
a
process
today.
What
I'm
seeing
in
the
bear
market
is
this
is
an
opportunity
for
regulators
to
do
two
things.
AI
One
is
create
more
guidance
and
two
is
they
are
there's
a
weeding
out
effect
that
you're
seeing
and
there's
a
proper
way
to
do
things,
and
I
think
for
us
it's
helping
right
now,
because
it
takes
a
little
more
effort
to
go
through
kyc.
That
takes
a
little
more
effort
to
get
into
a
marketplace
where
you
have
to
go
through
certain
stringent
rules,
so
we're
actually
excited
about
it.
AI
We
think
this
is
an
opportunity
for
good
companies
to
step
up
and
participate
and
show
the
there
is
a
real
use
case
and
it
can
be
done
in
a
regulated,
compliant
way
and
there's
a
great
opportunity.
So
for
me
in
the
bear
market,
it's
time
to
build
it's
time
to
get
after
it
and
make
things
happen,
get
the
infrastructure
going
again
and
participate,
and
you
know
who
knows
what
the
future
holds,
but
the
blockchain's
not
going
anywhere
cryptos
has
clearly
established
itself.
AH
AJ
Yeah,
so
from
our
perspective,
our
due
diligence
process
has
stayed
the
same.
We
don't
we
don't
change
it
over
time.
So,
from
a
from
a
bottom-up
standpoint,
we
have
a
very
rigorous
selection
process
and
we're
very
fortunate
that
we're
able
to
be
very
selective.
So
that's
something
that
will
never
change.
It'll,
never
get
compromised
and
will
never
change
things
to
get
more
deals
or
to
get
less
deals.
AJ
What
I
would
say
from
a
top-down
standpoint,
tactically
from
a
tactical
asset
allocation
or
from
a
tactical
capital
deployment
right
now
we
are
just
a
little
bit
more
cautious,
so
that
doesn't
change
our
strategy.
Our
strategy
is
the
same.
We're
still
looking
for
the
same
founders
with
the
same
ideas.
The
bar
is
just
a
little
bit
higher
and
we're
a
little
bit
cautious,
but
I
think
to
what
corey's
point
is
a
really
good
one.
AJ
AJ
The
people
that
have
more
flexibility,
like
I
think,
a
lot
of
us
on
the
stage,
are
able
to
actually
see
that
as
a
huge
opportunity
to
find
those
really
great
founders,
those
great
projects
and,
more
importantly,
for
the
people
in
this
room,
the
developers
and
the
founders.
This
is
a
great
opportunity
for
you
to
build
to
go
out
there
and
acquire
talent
and
potentially
even
into
engage
in
m
a.
AD
I
would
just
maybe
add
on
this:
we
also
do
invest
in
you
know,
early
stage
companies
and
definitely
one
of
the
things
we're
going
to
be
closely
looking
at
is
one
is
the
commercialization
plan.
So
no
big
picture
top-down
market
sizing.
We
don't
really
believe
in
this
anymore.
Of
course
it
needs
to
exist,
but
we
need
to
see
funders
who
are
also
realistic
in
bringing
revenues
fairly
rapidly.
AD
Given
you
know,
the
funding
cycle
is
probably
going
to
be
still
a
bit
challenging
for
for
the
next
couple
of
months,
and
two
is,
you
know
no
shortcut
on
regulation
and
compliance.
You
know
if
you
try
to
bypass
kyc.
If
you
try
to
go
against,
you
know,
rules
and
regulations.
That's
at
least
for
us
is
a
no-go
and
we're
not
going
to
support
any
of
those
projects,
and
I
think
many
other
more
maybe
established
vcs
and
traditional
investors
are
increasingly
taking
that
view
as
one.
AI
AI
AD
AI
AI
Now
how
do
I
commercialize
this,
and
I
think
that
is
a
great
opportunity
today
as
well.
You've
got
a
little
bit
of
window
here
to
figure
out
your
customer.
How
are
you
going
to
run
the
business?
How
is
it
going
to
be
profitable
and
how
is
it
going
to
grow?
And
I
think
when
you
get
that
piece
to
what
already
exists
now
you
really
have
web
3-0
it
moves
and
it
takes
off
in
a
big
way.
AH
I'm
interested
to
hear
about
your
sort
of
macro
perspective
on
things.
Maybe
if
we
can
start
with
you,
we've
seen
bitcoin
correlate
with
equities
in
terms
of
performance
a
lot
more
over
the
last
few
months,
I'm
wondering
if
you've
had
to
if
your
perspective
has
changed
yeah.
Could
you
speak
to
that
a
little
bit.
AD
Yeah,
I
think
everything
seems
to
be
correlated
right
now.
You
know
all
of
the
asset
laws
are
correlated
to
one,
and
we
saw
yesterday.
You
know
like
a
equity,
especially
tech
valuation
came
down
and
bitcoin
dropped,
10
percent,
so
it's
clearly
correlated.
I
think
it's
linked
to
currently
this
risk
of
sentiment.
AD
Probably
you
know
many
investors
probably
misjudged
a
bit
the
you
know
over
summer,
the
the
the
inflation
pressure,
and
so
now
they
have
to
revalue
a
bit
and
become
a
bit
more
more
cautious
and
so
the
macro
environment
for
crypto,
I
think,
will
continue
to
remain
a
bit
challenging
no
doubt
about
it,
and
I
don't
see
necessarily
a
decoration
in
the
short
to
medium
term,
between
equity
and
and
crypto
over
time.
It
will.
AD
AJ
Yeah,
I
think
it's
we're
living
through
very
interesting
times.
We
haven't
seen
a
credit
cycle
in
14
years.
What
we're
going
through
right
now
is
a
very
common
credit
deleveraging
event.
It
usually
happens
every
five
to
seven
years.
It
has
for
a
very
long
time,
but
we've
been
living
in
a
weird
environment.
AJ
Basically
since
the
gfc
and
what
we've
seen
is,
the
fed
has
tried
to
raise
rates
several
times
in
the
last
14
years
and
they've
been
held
hostage
by
risk
markets
and
essentially,
what's
happened
because
inflation
wasn't
a
problem,
the
fed
capitulated
and
that's
what
we've
seen
happen
for
a
very
long
time
that
ended
about
nine
months
ago,
because
of
inflation.
Now
we're
seeing
inflation
is
completely
out
of
control.
AJ
The
fed
has
absolutely
no
choice
but
to
address
it,
and
if
you
look
in
the
united
states
unemployment's
at
all
time,
lows:
inflation
at
all-time
highs,
they're
in
a
corner.
They
have
no
choice
as
to
what
they
need
to
do,
and
so,
from
our
perspective,
what
we're
looking
at
is
more
about.
What's
the
terminal
rate,
how
much
destruction
is
there
going
to
be
in
the
market
and
how
long
are
we
going
to
stay
there
too?
And
so
those
are
the
important
questions
to
have
from
our
perspective.
AJ
Our
cautious
stance
is
going
to
change
as
soon
as
the
risk
markets
realize
that
they've
been
wrong
all
along
and
that
they
need
to
adjust
and
that
the
fed
is
going
to
keep
their
word
because
what's
happened
now
is
the
fed
has
lost
credibility
and
so
historically
they've
been
able
to
say.
Oh
we're
going
to
do
this.
The
market
reacts
that
transmission
mechanism
isn't
working
as
well,
so
the
fed
needs
to
re-establish
credibility,
so
the
long
and
short
of
it
is
short
term.
AJ
I
think
we
need
to
go
through
a
little
bit
more
destruction
in
the
real
economy
as
well
as
in
financial
markets
and
then
at
some
point
the
fed
will
have
to
pivot.
There's
no
question
about
that.
The
question
is
when
and
the
reason
why
is
we're
stuck
in
this
situation
with
debt
and
demographics,
not
only
in
the
united
states
but
really
everywhere
in
the
world,
and
so
at
some
point.
That
mechanism
needs
to
come
back
up.
The
fed
just
needs
to
elevate
in
terms
of
rates.
AH
AI
Yeah,
so
some
of
us
are
old
enough
to
have
lived
through
2008..
You
know
these
things
happen,
they're
cyclical
and
it's
not
the
I
mean
it's.
The
global
everybody
in
the
globe
is
affected
by,
what's
going
on,
I
mean
it's
cyclical,
it's
inevitable
and
I
think
for
crypto,
it's
challenging
because
you
came
off
of
this
growth
curve
like
this,
which
most
of
us
know
is
not
sustainable.
AI
You
compound
that
with
global
inflation
recession
I
mean,
I
think,
everybody's
got
their
opinion
on.
I
don't
think
you
can
deny
it
exist,
but
again
I
think,
there's
a
great
opportunity
here
I
mean,
as
we
look
at
traditional
markets
and
you
said
it
jeff
money's,
gonna,
sit
and
wait,
or
it's
gonna
look
for
a
good
opportunity.
AI
You
take
that
regulated
approach
in
a
very
constructive
manner
and
there
are
phenomenal
products
I
mean
I
can
put
my
money
in
the
bank
and
get
a
zero
percent
interest
rate
or
I
can
invest
in
a
meaningful
product.
Like
these
gentlemen
have
spoke
about,
I
can
stake
and
get
a
nice
return,
and
so
I
think
for
us
it's
again
it's
an
opportunity
to
educate
and
get
the
word
out
there
that
yes,
the
global
economy,
it's
not
going
to
recover
in
a
few
months.
AI
This
is
a
repeat
of
history,
so
I
think
you
also
have
to
slow
down
a
little
bit
and
be
wise,
and
you
know
I
think,
the
good
companies
that
I've
watched
in
this
industry
and
learned
from
and
we
partner
with
their
patient-
and
I
think
you
have
to
know
when
to
go
when
to
stop
and
educate.
So
for
us
right
now
it's
build.
We
have
an
infrastructure.
AH
AJ
Yeah,
so
we're
very
close
to
near,
we
know
them
extremely
well.
We
think
the
technology
not
only
what
they've
built,
but
also
the
team
itself,
is
really
top
grade
and
they're
they're
as
good
as
it
gets.
So
from
that
perspective,
I
think
there
was
a
panel
a
few
days
ago
where
haseeb
from
dragonfly
was
talking
about
the
bullish
case
for
near,
and
we
completely
agree
with
that,
and
I
think,
what's
really
important
to
understand
is
the
nuances
between
the
different
chains
and
so
the
analogy
that
he
began.
AJ
AJ
There's
a
lot
of
personal
things
that
decide
where
you're
going
to
go
based
on
culture
based
on
language
and
based
on
what
you
do,
and
it's
no
different
for
projects
in
crypto
it'll
depend
on
what
language
the
programmers
are
in,
what
type
of
end
use
case
they
want
to
have
and
culturally
what
kind
of
community
and
ecosystem
they
want
to
be
part
of,
and
so
near,
has
done.
An
amazing
job
of
being
very
developer
friendly
and
that's
that's
the
theme
that
you've
seen
from
the
beginning.
AJ
AD
AH
AI
So
I'm
going
to
answer
this
directly
but
carefully.
We,
I
think
every
layer,
one
has
a
unique
position.
They
need
unique
attributes
and
we
support
and
want
to
participate
and
be
a
good
partner
to
all
of
them.
I
will
say,
with
near
I've,
been
extremely
impressed
and
we've
been
to
most
of
these
events
with
layer,
ones.
AI
AI
I
think
it's
spot
on
for
right
now
in
the
times,
so
I
think
the
tech,
the
structure,
the
positioning
and
for
me,
you
know,
I
like
to
believe
in
companies
who
interact
participate,
want
to
get
to
know
the
community
and
we
have
been
completely
impressed
in
this
event.
It's
not
the
hype
and
the
pomp
and
the
and
I'm
not
saying
that's
bad,
I'm
not
judging
I'm
saying
for
me.
AI
It
shows
and
we've
met
several
groups
out
here:
web
30s,
there's
real
projects
and
they're
down
the
road.
I
mean
these
are
not
just
I
mean,
there's
great
ideas,
but
we've
met
four
or
five
companies
that
already
have
full
staffs
and
they're
down
the
path,
and
I
think
it
is
because
of
this
job
is
brilliant.
Web
25
is
brilliant,
they're
bridging
a
gateway.
AH
AD
I
think
so
I
mean
still,
you
know
when
you
go
and
speak
to
board
of
big
pension
funds,
asset
management
company-
and
you
talk
about
crypto
in
vermont.
It's
bitcoin,
you
know
no
doubt
about
it
and
if
is
you
know,
especially
around
the
merge
and
all
the
media
attention
around,
it
is
there,
but
they
will
and
they
are
gradually
starting
to
understand
that,
underneath
those
two
big
kind
of
coins
there
is
a
very
wide
ecosystem
of
l1,
dabs
and
gradually.
AD
I
think
they
will
come
into
this,
and
you
know
you
have
equity
analysis
covering
hundreds
of
small
caps
over
time.
You'll
see
you
know,
crypto
analysts
covering
hundreds
of
small
coins
and
within
the
sales,
the
trading
and
the
kind
of
institutional
engagement
across
us
may
take
a
bit
of
time,
but
it
will
come.
AJ
Yeah,
I
think
I
would
just
add
to
that.
I
would
say
it's
not
the
appetite
right
now
from
institutions
that
isn't
there,
it's
really
the
ability
to
transact
and
to
express
their
views
and
realistically
there's
regulatory
clarity,
that's
missing,
but
there's
also
the
right
guard
rails,
and
so
what
we've
seen
so
far
is,
as
you
mentioned,
there's
there's
on-ramps
into
crypto
on
blockchain.
A
big
part
of
that
also
has
been
funding.
Venture
capitalists.
We've
seen
a
lot
of
that.
AJ
I
All
right,
thank
you
to
our
wonderful
panelists.
For
that
amazing
talk.
I
know
the
theme
in
general
right
now
is
winter,
but
it
definitely
doesn't
feel
like
winter.
Here
the
weather
is
beautiful,
the
vibes
are
immaculate,
so
you
know
I'm
not
complaining,
but
to
continue
our
discussions
on
winters.
I'd
like
to
bring
up
two
special
speakers:
jeff
amico
from
a16z
and
jack
collier
from
near
foundation
to
discuss
governing
in
a
winner.
AK
AL
Sure
so,
network
operations
really
refers
to
all
of
our
on-chain
participation
in
the
protocols
dows
networks
that
we
invest
in.
We
take
the
view
at
a16c
that
we
want
to
be
an
active
participant
in
all
of
the
networks
that
we're
investors
in,
and
so
it
encapsulates
everything
from
on-chain
governance.
You
know
voting
on
proposals
proposing
things
ourselves,
delegating
tokens
staking
running
validator
nodes,
providing
liquidity,
all
the
ways
that
we
look
to
contribute
to
our
networks
once
they're
live
on
chain.
AK
Brilliant,
thank
you.
So
you
mentioned
governance
right,
so
you
know
that
plays
a
huge
role
in
web
three
and
it's
always
evolving
right
across
different
ecosystems.
Think
about
it
in
different
ways
and
I
guess,
being
part
of
a16z.
You
know
you
have
great
sight
as
to
all
of
you
know
how
the
different
protocols
and
projects
treat
governance
so
it'd
be
interesting
to
hear
like
what
are
the
most
interesting
observations
that
you
have
seen
and
like
would
be
good
if
you
go
into
like
the
emerging
trends
you're
seeing
in
the
space.
AL
Sure
so,
as
you
mentioned,
we've
been
investing
in
the
space
since
2013,
but
more
recently
you
know,
we've
seen
the
I
would
say
the
adoption
of
real
on-chain
governance
in
crypto,
probably
going
back
I'd,
say
two
and
a
half
to
three
years
now,
beginning
with
things
like
compound
maker,
dow
uniswap,
many
of
the
kind
of
original
d5
protocols
in
the
ethereum
ecosystem,
and
I
would
say
over
the
course
of
that
time.
We've
seen
some
interesting
lessons.
AL
You
know
in
particular
this
stuff
kind
of
comes
to
bear
in
a
down
market,
because
that's
when
you
really
start
to
see
some
of
the
some
of
the
gaps,
some
of
the
the
fault
lines
in
your
organizational
design
or
in
your
governance
model,
you
know-
and
so
you
know,
I
think
what
we've
seen
in
terms
of
kind
of
trends.
More
recently
has
been
a
little
bit
of
a
shift
more
towards.
AL
I
don't
want
to
say
a
hierarchical
governance
model
in
in
certain
taos,
but
certainly
a
specialization
within
daos.
So
the
idea
that
you
know
if
there
are
certain
operational
decisions
to
be
made
you
you
want
to
be
sure
that
you
have
the
right
people
within
your
doubt
in
place
to
make
those
decisions.
AL
AL
I
think
we've
seen
some
evidence
over
the
course
of
the
last
two
years
that
that
maybe
doesn't
work
all
that
well
in
in
many
cases,
and
so
I
think
a
major
trend
is
towards
specialization
towards
you
know
putting
in
place
specific
folks
who
are
experts
in
a
given
area
and
allowing
them
to
decide
on
what
the
key
decisions
should
be.
So
just
to
give
an
example
of
that.
You
know
something
like
like
maker
dow,
for
example,
has
put
in
place.
AL
You
know
what
they
call
core
units,
so
these
are
effectively
kind
of
like
sub
or
like
operating
groups
under
the
kind
of
overall
make
or
dow
entity,
and
so
you'll
have.
You
know
a
core
unit
for
legal,
a
core
unit
for
growth,
a
core
unit
for
engineering,
a
core
unit,
for
you
know
any
number
of
other
things
and,
in
those
cases,
you're
kind
of
entrusting
those
units
to
make
more
of
the
kind
of
key
governance
decisions.
AL
AL
You
know,
for
example,
something,
like
you
know,
a
financial
application
like
a
maker
dow
requires
one
particular
type
of
governance
model,
but
on
the
other
end
of
the
spectrum,
you
know
something
that's
a
little
bit
less,
perhaps
financial
oriented
a
little
bit
less,
perhaps
high
stakes
in
some
regards
might
warrant
a
different
type
of
governance
model.
So
you
could
imagine
at
the
other
end
of
the
spectrum,
something
like
constitution
dao,
for
example,
or
nouns
dao,
for
those
of
you
who
are
following.
AL
You
know
some
of
the
new
kind
of
nft
based
doubt
projects
in
those
cases
you
might
not
need
the
kind
of
hierarchical
rigid.
You
know,
cumbersome
governance
process
and
I'm
sure,
as
we'll
talk
about
you
know,
we've
actually
seen.
In
those
cases,
participation
in
governance
is
oftentimes
quite
a
bit
higher
than
it
is
in
some
of
these
kind
of
original
d5
applications.
Yeah.
O
AL
I
I
think
it
it
can
work
in
the
case
of
a
dow.
That
is,
you
know
a
bit
more.
You
know,
perhaps
one
that,
isn't
you
know
operating
a
complex.
You
know
financial
application
or
isn't
trying
to
build
and
develop
some
complex
kind
of
technical
system.
I
think
in
those
kind
of
models,
it's
just
very
difficult
to
have
a
purely
flat
governance
structure.
AL
AL
You
know
based
around
maybe
maintaining
an
nft
brand
or
maintaining
or
pursuing
some
kind
of
social
purpose
or
mission
constitution.
Dao
might
be
a
great
example.
The
sale,
gp
initiative,
I
think,
is
another
great
example
where,
in
those
cases
you
know
you
really
do
want
to
leverage
the
wisdom
of
the
crowd
and,
in
those
cases,
you're
not
you're,
not
worrying.
So
much
about
your
community,
not
having
the
expertise
to
set
interest
rates
or
determine
what
these
kind
of
fine-tuned
parameters
should
be
in
some
complex
financial
application.
AL
But
rather
you
know,
maybe
you
want
their
view
on
what
kind
of
brand
direction
an
nft
project
should
take
or
what
kind
of
features
some
kind
of
you
know.
Creative
kind
of
initiative
should
take
on.
In
those
cases,
I
think
a
more
flat
kind
of
democratic
style.
Governance
does
actually
make
sense
and
does
actually
add
value
to
what
you're
trying
to
do
at
core
yeah.
AK
Brilliant
and
like
this
lgp
example,
I
think,
is
a
really
good
one.
It
gives
people
the
opportunity
to
touch
a
part
of
the
team
that
they
love
so
dearly
as
well.
I
think
that's
fantastic,
I
guess
just
changing
tack
a
little
bit.
I
mean
one
of
my
personal
reasons
why
I
got
into
scripture
in
the
first
place
and
blockchain
tech.
Is
it
can
put
the
power
back
into
the
people's
hands
right?
AK
They
can
make,
they
can
touch
the
thing
and
that
their
they
care
about,
whether
that
be
a
community
project
or
you
know
a
company.
You
work
for
a
government
that
you
know
a
country
that
you're
in,
but
right
honestly,
do
you
think
we'll
ever
get
to
the
point
where
the
masses
can
get
involved
in
governance,
and
you
know
we
can
bring
these
type
of
realities
to
life.
AL
AL
AK
Absolutely
so,
if
I
can
change
tac
again
a
little
bit,
you
know,
a16
are
obviously
incredibly
influential
in
the
space.
You
know
you
guys,
invest
in
lots
of
different
projects
across
lots
of
different
chains.
I
guess
it
is
there
a
contradiction
there
in
terms
given
that
you
are
so
influential,
but
you
know,
while
you're
also
pushing
for
the
ethos
of
decentralization.
AL
AL
We
truly
do
believe
in
the
underlying
mission
of
decentralization,
and
I
think
that
comes
from
a
place
of
seeing
how
the
prior
two
eras
of
the
internet
have
played
out
with
a
front
row
seat.
I
think
if
you
talk
to
folks
like
chris
dixon
or
marco
andreessen,
you
know
they
were
right
there
when
they
saw
the
web
2
era
really
consolidate
around
a
handful
of
small
big
tech
companies
and
the
effects
it's
had
on
all
the
other
startups
that
we
in,
and
so
it's
not
it's,
not
just
an
investment
thesis.
AL
It
very
much
is
a
deep-rooted
belief
in
addition
to
that,
I
think,
even
from
the
investment
standpoint,
if
these
things
are
going
to
be
good
investments,
it's
only
because
they've
actually
achieved
their
underlying
purpose
of
decentralization.
Otherwise
I
think
they
will.
They
will
largely
not
satisfy
the
investment
thesis
and
so
I
think,
we're
very
much
aligned
with
the
view
that
these
things
need
to
decentralize.
They
need
to
transcend
their
original
founding
teams
and
core
developers
to
get
to
the
point
that
they're
even
good
investments-
and
so
you
know
I
think
there
are.
AL
There-
are
a
number
of
ways
that
we
put
this
kind
of
thesis
into
practice.
So,
as
I
said,
you
know
we'll
look
to
participate
actively
in
governance
ourselves,
so
you
know
we'll
vote
with
tokens
that
we
have,
but
almost
universally
you
know
within
you
know,
d5
protocols
with
endows
when
we
get
governance,
tokens
we'll
look
to
delegate
a
really.
You
know
large
majority
of
those
tokens
out
across
the
ecosystem
and
so
in
a
protocol
like
uniswap
or
makerdao,
for
example.
We'll
vote
with.
AL
Maybe
you
know,
10
of
our
tokens
and
we'll
delegate
the
rest
of
them
out
across
the
ecosystem,
and
so
you
know
we
find
that
to
be
a
really
effective
way
to
not
only
get
more
people
involved
in
in
governance
and
to
get
kind
of
more
people
to
have
a
kind
of
a
say
in
the
process.
But
it
also,
I
think,
systematically
decentralizes
some
of
our
governance
power
ourselves.
AL
AK
Yeah
brilliant,
thank
you
for
that.
I
guess
my
last
question
is
you
know
we're
here
at
nikon
2022
we
have
some
fantastic
projects
out
there
showcasing
what
they've
built-
and
you
know,
they're,
probably
facing
some
of
these
issues,
these
dilemmas
around
governance
and
how
they
how
they
should
approach
it.
You
know
we
talked
about
how
you
know
there
are
different
structures
for
different
projects.
AK
AL
We
see
that
all
the
time
where
you
know
projects,
you
know
whether
it's
a
rush
to
get
out
a
token
or
a
rush
to
kind
of
take
their
hands
off
the
wheel
for
for
some
other
reason
we
often
see
you
know
core
teams
decentralize
their
protocol
a
bit
too
early
in
the
process,
and
what
that
tends
to
do
is
it
puts
your
product
out
there
into
the
hands
of
your
community,
which
is
great,
but
typically
that
means
you
haven't
quite
found
product
market
fit
in
some
cases.
Maybe
the
product
isn't
fully
developed.
AL
It's
not
fully
featured
and
oftentimes.
That's
just
too
early
to
entrust
your
community
with
those
core
decisions.
Frankly,
and
so
what
happens
in
those
cases?
Is
the
protocol
will
oftentimes
stagnate?
Frankly,
if
you
know,
if
you
haven't
built
it
out
to
the
point
that
it's
ready
to
be
handed
off
to
your
community,
the
second
thing
I'd
say
which
is
kind
of
related
to
that
is
after
you
have
gotten
to
that,
where
you
think
the
product
is
or
your
network
is
kind
of,
you
know
fully
featured
or
it's
it's
kind
of
you
know
mostly
fully
baked.
AL
You
should
also
be
thinking
about
putting
in
place
some
kind
of
organizational
design
for
the
dow
such
that
it
can
actually
function
after
that
handoff
takes
place
again.
You
know
what
we've
seen
sometimes
not
work.
So
well
is
a
team.
Will,
you
know,
finish,
building
a
pro
protocol
and
then
we'll
say:
okay,
we're
decentralizing,
here's
the
token
we're
handing
it
off
to
the
community,
but
not
put
in
place
any
kind
of
organizational
structure
for
the
dow
itself
and
typically,
as
you
would
probably
predict
that
often
ends
in
just
chaos.
AL
AL
I
think
what
we've
seen
over
the
last
couple
years
again
is
in
efforts
to
kind
of
fully
decentralize
and
to
you
know,
ensure
that
the
protocol
is
decentralized
as
possible,
and
many
early
protocols
went
with
a
purely
flat
kind
of
governance
model
and
a
purely
flat
organizational
design,
and
what
that
means
is
you're
asking
your
community
to
make
every
single
type
of
decision
that
needs
to
be
made
within
a
given
protocol
you're.
I
think
what
we've
seen
is
that
that
often
leads
to
really
poor
or
low
voter
participation.
AL
We're
going
to
entrust
those
decisions
to
this
group
of
people,
maybe
they're,
more
technical,
maybe
they're,
more
financial,
maybe
they're
whatever,
then,
maybe,
as
you
zoom
out.
Okay,
maybe
the
next
kind
of
ring
around
that,
maybe
it's
kind
of
treasury
management
decisions.
Maybe,
for
you
know,
spending
of
the
treasury
below
a
certain
threshold.
You
can
entrust
you
know
some
group
of
people
to
make
those
decisions
and
to
give
them
the
discretion
to
kind
of
spend
up
to
a
certain
threshold.
AL
Maybe
you
kind
of
zoom
out
again
and
say:
okay
for
spending
above
some
some
kind
of
minimum
threshold,
we're
going
to
require
this
group
of
people
to
make
those
decisions,
and
so
on,
but
just
a
kind
of
general
concept
of
ensuring
that
you're,
not
you
know,
bogging
down
the
dao
with
you
know,
requiring
token
holders
to
vote
on
every
minor
thing.
I
think
we've
seen
quite
a
bit
of
that
and
so
being
targeted
being
specific
matching
up.
AL
AK
And
like
like
say,
I
think,
that's
really
useful
for
the
projects
that
are
out
there
building
as
we
speak
on
the
near
protocol,
and
hopefully
that's
given
people
some
insights
as
to
how
they
should
think
about
governance
as
they
move
forward
so
we're
out
of
time
jeff.
Thank
you
very
much
for
joining
us
and
we'll
see
you
at
nikon
next
year.
Great
thanks.
I
I
All
right,
thank
you
so
much
to
jack
and
jeff
yeah
I
mean
how
do
we
build
in
this
chaotic
industry
with
the
best
attempts
at
you
know
creating
order?
Yeah
governance
is
very
hot
right
now
cool,
so
moving
on
to
something
that's
something.
That's
very
personally
interesting
to
me
is
talking
about
privacy.
Right
webfree
makes
a
lot
of
promises
so
to
talk
about
web3's
privacy
promise.
The
legal
perspective
I'd
like
to
bring
up
our
moderator,
maya,
shofani
with
june
kim
julian
naveau,
mary
beth
buchanan
v
lee
and
brigitte
anderson.
AM
All
right,
you
guys
made
it
to
day
three.
I
hope
you're
all
feeling
really
good.
We
have
a
hot
topic
today,
privacy
in
web
3
and
the
promise
of
that-
and
I
have
an
incredible
panel
with
me.
I
have
four
attorneys
on
board,
so
watch
out
and
one
economist,
so
I'm
gonna
go
ahead
and
start
with
june
june
was,
is
actually
the
gc
at
mina
foundation
and
he's
also
a
board
member
of
mina
foundation.
AM
He
is
also
a
professor
at
cornell
university
and
he
focuses
on
blockchain,
so
incredible
panelists
and
then
we
have
also
julian
julian
is
the
head
of
regulatory
affairs
at
ledger
and
previous
to
that
he
was
a
policy
officer
at
basically
the
sec
in
france.
That's
the
best
way
to
describe
it.
Thank
you
and
then
we
have
mary
beth
mary
beth
was
the
doj
was
at
the
doj
for
20
years
and
previous
to
that
she
was
the
gc
at
kraken
and
bitstamp
and
is
now
sitting
on
the
board
for
cardona.
AM
AM
AM
I
don't
know
if
you
guys
are
familiar
with
what
happened
recently,
but
basically
tornado
cache
was
sanctioned
on
the
u.s
side
for
having
a
software
that
enables
users
to
money
launder
and
then
in
the
eu.
The
developer
behind
tornado
cash
was
arrested
and
also
the
allegations
state
that
he
was
arrested
for
developing
the
software
that
allowed
users
to
money
launder
and
we're
going
to
dive
right
in.
AM
Z
Z
Whenever
you
look
at
an
issue
like
this,
I
try
to
think
about
all
of
the
consequences,
including
the
unintended
consequences.
Think
about
how
the
government
might
look
at
something
and
figure
out
how
we
can
protect
and
maintain
our
privacy,
while
still
making
certain
information
accessible
in
you
know
urgent
emergency
purposes,.
AN
AN
We
can
do
a
lot
which
we
don't
do
and
we
don't
need
to
go
all
the
way
to
which
is
illegal
and
in
web
2.
There's
been
a
lot
of
this
and
the
final
aspect
on
the
wealth,
management
and
digital
assets.
This
is
really
is
a
makes
us
what
what
kind
of
wealth
management
are
they
putting
into
the
economy
and
could
they
be
controlled
by
a
monetary
policy
or
how
are
they
adding
to
the
system.
AM
AA
Yeah,
I
completely
agree,
I
think,
once
you
upload
information
on
chain,
it
stays
there
right,
that's
one
of
the
toughest
part
of
being
exposed,
it's
scary.
At
the
same
time,
so
I
think
mixers
allow
you
to
basically
keep
certain
information
in
a
way
that
is
not
discoverable
by
parties
that
could
have
good
or
bad
intention.
AA
Ultimately,
you
know
I
don't
have
much
more
use
cases
that
than
what
we
mentioned,
but
the
best
example
for
me
is
like
we
all
work
in
a
crypto
company
and
you
get
tokens
as
compensation
and
the
moment
you
move
that
to
an
exchange
account.
Everybody
knows
you're
selling,
so
everybody
at
the
employee
or
your
boss
knows
that
you
know
you're
trying
to
get
some
liquidity
and
that's
some
sometimes
that
information
you
want
to.
AA
AN
AN
We
have
the
energy
crisis,
we
have
the
health
crisis,
we
have
the
food
crisis,
hyperinflation
and
the
war
in
europe,
and
when
we
do
financial
instruments
in
banks
and
historically
always
we
have
been
looking
at
how
these
instruments
can
actually
help
to
solve
some
of
these
problems,
which
you
have
a
rather
of
just
solving
individuals
problems.
So
for
that
perspective,
this
is
possibly
some
of
the
what
these
new
fintech
instruments
are
being
benchmarked
against
and
just
to
a
notice
of
privacy
and
transparency.
AN
We
can
all
remember
in
the
19
2008,
with
the
burst
of
the
financial
bubble.
There
was
this
big
deal
about
banks,
doing
having
business
models
that
didn't
grow
the
economy,
but
it
did
gross
the
wealth
of
individuals
and
at
that
time
george
bush
jr
of
america
and
tony
blair
in
in
london
decided
that
for
companies
to
be
listed
on
the
stock
markets,
they
have
to
be
completely
transparent
about
income
of
the
boards
and
of
the
executives,
and
that
has
been
like
this.
AN
Z
Yeah,
just
maybe
one
quick
point
about
the
the
balance.
If
you
have
a
particular
concern
and
you
want
to
protect
your
use
and
transfer
of
cryptocurrency
you'll
have
to
really
balance
that
with.
If
you
do
use
a
mixing
service,
your
your
transfer
may
then
be
tainted
so
that,
if
you
go
on
to
a
cryptocurrency
exchange,
that
crypto
is
going
to
be
flagged
because
it
had
gone
through
a
mixer.
So
you
really
kind
of
have
to
you
know
balance
that.
AM
AM
AM
AA
Wanna
yeah
sure
I'm
happy
to
so
I
think
that
really
depends
on
what
product
you're
building
right.
So,
if
you're
building
a
marketplace
for
nfts,
maybe
the
concern
is
less.
But
if
you
work
on
a
protocol
and
you're
creating
a
decks
or
any
kind
of
privacy,
preserving
mechanisms,
then
I
think
at
that
point
it's
less
about
like
are
there
regulations
out
there?
I
could
be
compliant,
but
more
of
how
do
I
design
this
to
avoid
being
part
of
the
sdn
list,
which
is,
from
business
perspective,
a
terrible
thing
to
happen
right.
AA
So,
to
the
extent,
your
part,
your
code
is
working
to
help
move,
money,
values
and
so
forth.
You
always
want
to
keep
that
on
the
back
of
your
head
and
when
you
talk
to
a
lawyer,
they're
not
going
to
say,
oh,
you
need
to
design
it
this
way,
but
you
have
to
have
some
sort
of
a
moral
obligation
to
say.
Okay,
can
bad
actors
use
my
code?
If
so,
what
are
some
steps
that
I
could
take
in
order
to
mitigate
that?
Because
that's
as
good
of
a
business
reason
to
do
that
as
regulatory.
AO
Who
would
have
the
ability
to
do
that
so
so
yeah.
I
think
there
is
a
danger
of
over
compliance.
There's
a
chilling
effect
where
people
may
be
doing
more
than
what
even
ofact
expects
or
law
enforcement
in
general,
and
I
think
you
see
that
a
lot
or
you've
been
seeing
that
a
lot.
The
last
few
weeks
with
a
discussion
of
whether
people
at
the
base
layer
at
the
protocol
level
should
be.
You
know,
implementing
some
sort
of
censorship.
Z
AA
AA
All
these
regulators
focus
on
whether
an
application
is
decentralized,
whereas
I
think
agencies
like
ofac
they're,
interested
in
preventing
crime
and
making
sure
bad
actors
will
get
money.
So
to
me
it
was
very
surprising
when
they
went
after
the
domain
and
the
wallet
addresses
using
the
tornado
cache,
because
you
could
argue
that
it's
the
centralized
application
to
them.
They
didn't
care
right.
What's
also
interesting
is
what
they
didn't
do,
which
is
go
after
developers
in
the
united
states.
AA
They
did
not
sort
of
try
to
put
them
in
jail
or
seek
criminal
sort
of
you
know
implications
that
really
happened
in
the
eu
and
we
don't
know
much
details.
So
a
certain
point,
you're
thinking
all
right,
you
think
decentralization
is
the
way
to
kind
of
solve
for
regulation.
It
is
true,
but
when
it
comes
to
ofac
and
kyc,
I
would
argue
that
the
jury
is
out
literally
on
whether
that's
going
to
hold
the
ground.
AN
They
cannot
just
be
blind
to
the
business
models
and
how
it's
used,
but,
of
course,
those
demanding
these
innovations
also
responsible
because
they
are
demanding
and
adopting
them.
So
all
so.
Basically,
the
answer
is
that
developers
needs
to
understand
that
they
are
part
of
solving
major
socio-economic
problems
or
technological
problems
or
financial
problems
or
trying
to
become
a
co-player
in
the
economic
system.
So
they
can
and-
and
also
it's
also
been
said
several
times-
that
no
company
when
bossed,
because
they
didn't
get
the
code
right.
They
weren't
bossed
because
of
all
other
reasons,
thank.
AM
AA
Yeah,
first
of
all,
I
think
it
was
a
really
well
drafted
complaint.
I
was
impressed
by
it
was
as
good
as
it
gets,
but
I
would
have
to
say
it's
an
uphill
battle.
Challenging
of
extinction
and
historically
not
a
lot
of
people
have
succeeded
in
overcoming
the
sanction,
especially
after
the
war
on
terror.
AA
So
it's
going
it's
going
to
be
tough,
I
think
for
those
individuals
to
prevail,
but
I
will
say
that
certain
challenges
were
successful.
So
in
2019
exxon,
the
oil
company
actually
was
successful
in
in
overturning
offense
sanction.
Basically
saying
I
was
not
given
fair
notice
or
due
process,
I
think,
what's
going
to
be
interesting
here
is
this
case
is
doesn't
really
have
a
lot
of
precedent,
because
ofac
has
to
basically
establish
that
the
smart
contract
code
is
quote,
unquote,
property
interest.
AA
That
would
put
the
the
activities
relating
there
too
on
their
jurisdiction,
and
we
haven't
really
seen
a
lot
of
cases
that
played
that
scenario
out
so,
depending
on
how
the
court
sort
of
works,
how
the
jury
comes
out.
I
think
this
could
either
set
precedent
for
future
ofac
sdn
list
updating
or
they
could
completely
sort
of
work
to
back
off.
So
I
think
this
is
going
to
be
a
seminal
case.
AA
Another
interesting
thing
is
coinbase,
had
a
constitutional
challenge
and
again
constitutional
challenge
when
it
comes
to
an
agency's
ability
to
prevent
crime
hasn't
been
much
successful,
but
I
almost
feel
like
they
had
the
supreme
court
in
mind
and
put
that
in
to
eventually
figure
out
this
could
potentially
escalate
upward.
So
it's
definitely
going
to
take
time.
It's
going
to
be
an
uphill
battle,
but
there
have
been
successful
cases
before.
Z
AO
So
I
would
just
add
or
follow
up
on
that
point.
I
I
think
that
I
sort
of
go
back
and
forth
about
whether
the
decision
to
litigate
this
and
and
you
know
possibly
let
a
court
decide
some
of
these
issues.
At
some
point,
I
go
back
and
forth
about
whether
that
is
a
better
approach
than
trying
to
engage
in
this
case
ofac
or
treasury
directly
or
congress
right.
Z
I
totally
agree
with
v.
I
think
that
we
have
to
look
at
all
of
the
interests
here.
Look
at
how
can
we
protect
privacy?
You
know:
how
can
we
protect
national
security?
How
can
we
look
at
what
are
the
government's
interests
and,
and
can
those
interests
be
addressed
in
a
way-
that's
far
more
less
restrictive
than
what
they've
done
here.
R
Yeah,
maybe
some
words
on
on
that.
Actually,
the
the
current
lawsuit
is
very,
very,
very
interesting
because
it
will
bring
some
legal
clarity.
The
the
problem
is
that
this
kind
of
legal
action
take
years
and
in
the
meantime,
we
stay
in
this
kind
of
gray
area.
Where
we
do,
we
don't
don't
know
what
will
happens
for
developers
for
web-free
project
for
defy
tools
and
it
it's
a
problem.
But
I
think
this
this
lawsuit,
it's
a
good
thing
and
just
to
to
add
some
something
on
what
what
has
been
said.
R
It's
an
important
conversation
to
have,
I
think,
because
here,
for
the
first
time
the
the
u.s
treasury
department
put
a
piece
of
code
on
on
the
sdn
list
on
a
list
usually
used
for
individuals
for
national
individuals
and
entities,
and
here
you
got
a
non-person
which,
which
has
been
had
to
be
obviously
it's
a
kind
of
of
a
rubicon
here.
If
I
must
say-
and
we
do
not-
we
do
not
know
where
it
it.
R
It
does
hand
actually,
because
what
happens
if
you
use
this
to
cash
services,
not
for
illegal
illicit
or
illegal
purposes.
It's
it's
not
clear,
and
you
know
it's
very
important,
of
course,
to
fight
against
money
laundering,
illicit
activities,
terrorist
terrorism,
but
privacy
is
also
a
fundamental
fundamental
right
that
need
to
be
protect
and
as
a
fundamental
right.
R
So
it
means
that
more
or
less
70
of
the
use
of
these
kind
of
tools
are
not
illicit.
It's
you
know
it's
like
if
it's
like
prohibiting
cars
cell
phones,
internet
just
because
terrorists
use
it
yeah,
and
it
raised
this
kind
of
very
an
interesting
and
very
important
question.
I
think
for
privacy,
and
I
I
guess
that
con
coin
base
will
use
some
precedence
because
you
know
in
the
us
they've
got
some
precedent.
For
example,
the
bernstein
versus
court
of
justice
case
recognized
that
code
can
be.
R
AM
So
julian,
actually,
while
we're
still
talking
about
your
perspective,
one
of
the
things
that
I'd
like
to
hear
about
a
bit
more
is
on
the
european
side,
so
the
coder
was
arrested
in
the
netherlands,
and
so
he
was
arrested
for
basically
allow
creating
this
code
that
enables
users
to
money
launder.
Do
you
have
any
perspective
on
that
or,
like
any
insight
from
the
eu
side,.
R
Yeah,
actually
we
we
talked
about
the
turnover
cache
and
this
on
the
fact
that
the
us
tracer
redepartment
has
sanctioned
a
technology
instead
of
sanctioned
individuals,
criminals
here
in
europe.
It's
even
worse,
I
must
say,
because
the
the
core
developer
of
the
titan
of
cash
smart
contract
has
been
arrested
in
netherlands
and
of
course,
I
do
not
have
any
specific
information.
AM
One
last
thing
I
wanted
to
hit
on
we're
kind
of
winding
down,
but
mary
beth,
one
of
the
things
that
you
know
I
wanted
to
discuss
with
you
is
recently
the
treasury
came
out
basically
with
their
own
publishing
about
how
to
actually
withdraw
your
assets
or
get
your
assets
from
tornado
cash.
So
I
don't
know
if
anybody
in
the
audience
has
their
assets
stuck
in
tornado
cash,
and
this
might
be
a
helpful
way
to
end
the
session.
Z
They
told
the
public
that
they
need
to
request
a
license
from
ofac
to
be
able
to
get
their
money
back
and
then
a
rather
tokens
back
and
then
what
ofac
will
do
is
do
an
investigation
and
they'll
make
sure
they'll
determine
to
the
best
of
their
ability
that
it
wasn't
connected
with
some
illicit
activity
and
then
they'll
return
it
now.
I
know
you're,
probably
thinking.
Oh,
yes,
ofx
not
going
to
be
reasonable,
but
I
can
tell
you
that
I
have
dealt
with
ofac
recently.
Z
I
approached
them
after
the
individual
was
arrested
for
going
to
teach
in
north
korea,
north
korea
and
because
we
were
interested
in
knowing
what
type
of
educational
programs
could
we
do
to
benefit.
You
know
people
abroad
and
teach
about
crypto,
and
I
wanted
to
make
sure
that
we
didn't
violate
the
ofx
sanctions
and,
and
they
were
actually
pretty
reasonable.
They
said
you
know
you
need
to
explain
to
us
exactly
what
you
want
to
do
apply
for
the
license
and,
yes,
we
might
just
give
you
one.
Z
So
that's
the
first
thing
they
did
the
second
thing
they
wanted
to
address
all
of
the
the
incidents
of
dusting,
which
would
be
the
unsolicited.
You
know,
distribution
after
this
was
put
on
the
sanction
list
and
they
basically
said
we're
not
going
to
prioritize
those
investigations
which
means
that
they're,
probably
not
going
to
take
any
action.
Z
AO
AN
AM
Right,
thank
you.
I
just
want
to
make
a
clear
distinction,
though,
that
it's
not
a
financial
instrument
in
this
case.
Well,
we
don't
know
yet
right,
so
that's
tbd,
maybe
later
on,
they
might
claim
that
a
mixer
is
a
financial
instrument,
but
I
think
you
all
hit
on
excellent
points
and
I'm
excited
to
see
what
everybody
builds
in
web
3
and
hopefully
we
all
think
consciously
about
building
stuff
and
don't
be
afraid
to
talk
a
lo
to
a
lawyer
every
once
in
a
while.
That's
that's
the
ending
of
this
panel.
R
I
B
B
I
All
right
welcome
back
everyone.
So,
just
like
amuse
me
here,
I've
been
wanting
to
try
something
this
entire
time.
So
this
is
my
kind
of
my
last
chance.
So
let's
do
this,
so
I
really
want
to
start
a
chant.
Can
we
all
just
start
chanting
near
khan
like
let's
do
this?
I
want
this
to
be
like
you
know
everyone
to
just
get
really
excited
really
hyped.
You
know
it's
been
a
long
three
days,
we're
all
probably
a
little
tired,
a
little
hungover,
but
let's
do
this.
I
AH
AP
AP
Right
and
so
kind
of
this
is
in
many
ways
emphasizes
the
growth
of
the
ecosystem.
Right,
I
mean
just
looking
here
right
going
from
last
year's.
You
know,
I
think
we
had
like
2
300
people
at
any
moment,
maybe
like
600
total,
but
it
was
like
a
small.
You
know
tight-knit
community
and
we
have
you
know
almost
3
000
people
here,
like
it's
amazing
and
obviously
there's
still
a
lot
of
people
who
could
not
come
and
so
like
that
kind
of
grows
right.
How
do
we
represent
it?
AP
AP
For
a
long
time,
we've
started
our
near
enhancement,
proposals
right
the
ability
to
kind
of
for
anyone
in
ecosystem
to
propose
an
idea
how
to
change
the
protocol
or
how
to
standardize
around
some
functions,
and
obviously
you
know
we
continued
building
the
protocol
2020.
You
know
very
focused
time
on
shipping.
AP
Where
was
very
basic,
if
you
remember
that
interface
was,
you
know,
built,
I
think
in
like
one
day
or
something
or
two
days
by
dennis,
and
so
very
kind
of
you
know
early
stage,
but
already
trying
to
bring
people
together.
Now
2021
right
kind
of
first
year
of
mainnet,
a
ton
of
stuff
happened
right.
The
kind
of
near
foundation
that
was
formed
in
2019
have
started
to
kind
of
structure
and,
at
the
same
time,
the
original
team
kind
of
went
in
different
directions.
AP
Right-
and
this
was
always
our
like
in
our
spirit-
is
we
wanted
to
bring
people
together
to
build
this
infrastructure
to
then
build
on
this
infrastructure
right?
It's
not
like
we're.
Not
infrastructure
is
not
the
goal,
it's
a
tool,
and
so
we
had
a
ton
of
kind
of
teams
with
early
members
separating
to
focus
on
different
areas.
Right.
AP
AP
Now
back,
then
we
did
not
have
tooling.
We
did
not
actually
have
a
massive
ecosystem
yet
to
support
that,
and
now,
as
we
continue
growing
right,
we
have
ecosystem
funds.
We
have
regional
hubs
across
across
the
whole
planet.
Now
right
we
have
now
working
groups
and
protocol
and
community
on
wallets
on
standards.
AP
You
know
blockchain
protocols
try
to
be
self-healing
autonomous
system
that
operates
out
of
the
you
know,
nodes
and
agents
in
the
system,
but
in
a
way
we're
doing
that
on
the
organizational
people
level
as
well
and
obviously
you
know
it's
more
complex
people
are
not
code.
I
know
that,
but
we're
still
trying
to
align
incentives
to
create
clarity
to
make
decisions
clear-
and
this
is,
I
think,
is
for
me-
probably
the
most
important
piece
is:
how
do
we
make
a
clear
decision
making
for
different
scopes
of
problems
right?
Think
of
it
like?
AP
If
somebody
wants
to
change,
you
know
how
a
networking
message
being
propagated,
that
is,
a
very
local
scope
for
a
protocol
development
or
even
one
client
development
right
and
then
the
group
that
is
responsible
for
that
is
able
to
handle
it.
If
somebody
wants
to
change
how
apps
and
wallets
interact
right,
that's
already
a
way,
bigger
scope,
it
touches
a
lot
of
application
developers
and
wallets,
and
that
should
be
a
wider
discussion
that
contributes
kind
of
from
both
sides.
AP
And
now,
if
somebody
wants,
for
example,
to
suggest
a
different
talking
economics
for
near
that,
actually
touches
the
whole
ecosystem
and
should
be
surfaced
to
kind
of
everyone
and
and
take
input.
Have
you
know,
economists
have
governance
kind
of
participate
in
that
and
that's
kind
of
a
different
scopes.
There
needs
to
be
a
clear
who
and
how
the
decisions
are
made
and
what
is
the
escalation
pass?
AP
At
the
end,
it's
like
it
is
about
all
of
us
working
together
right
and
so
the
way
to
have
a
clear
accountability
system,
a
way
to
clearly
resolve
conflicts
and
kind
of
communicate
feedback.
That's
constructive,
that's
not
you
know,
chaotic
or
toxic
is
extremely
important
piece,
and
so
all
of
those
things
like
why
we're
trying
to
evolve
the
governance.
Why
are
we
taking
time
to
build
a
system
out
of
this?
So
kind
of
to
summarize
goals
are
increase
transparency,
operationalize
decision
making.
AP
We
want
to
check
checks
and
balances
right.
There
is
developers
who
building
protocol
there
are
stakeholders
who
have
near
there
are
people
who
are
running
hubs.
There
are
folks
who
are
you
know?
Building
wallets
people
who
are
building
applications
integrations
and
partners
across
the
ecosystem
right
a
lot
of
different
stakeholders.
How
do
we
make
sure
all
of
them
are
counted
and
at
the
same
time
you
know
none
of
them
have
a
over-exert
power.
AP
We
want
a
kind
of
on-chain
participation
right
right
now.
A
lot
of
the
conversations
are
happening.
Off-Chain,
it's
governance
forum.
It's
telegram!
It's
discord
right
like
there
is
no
sometimes
way
to
make
a
decision
when
there
is
actually
just
kind
of
a
rough
consensus
of
just
like
chatting
on
a
on
some
kind
of
forum.
So
how
do
we
synthesize
the
decision
at
the
end
and
kind
of
get
ever
get
a
clear
picture
that
everybody
agrees
with
it?
AP
Of
course,
you
know
a
big
part
of
it
is
continuing
growing
the
ecosystem
and
I
think
that's
at
the
end.
What
we're
trying
to
do
is
to
not
just
kind
of
continue
momentum
but
actually
accelerate
both
funding
of
the
important
pieces
ability
to
also
bring
back
the
value
that
has
been
invested
in
the
ecosystem
back
to
treasury
and
continue
kind
of
pushing
this
ecosystem
forward.
AP
Ideally,
this
you
know,
as
a
system
expands,
the
treasury
actually
is
more
valuable,
not
less
as
it
kind
of
invests
and
funds
different
opportunities,
and
so
through
this
we
want
to
introduce
the
constitution
right.
The
kind
of
the
core
piece
that
you
know
everybody
is
looking
for
in
a
way
that
it
defines
the
governance
defines
how
decisions
are
made
and,
more
importantly,
it
defines
how
it
can
be
updated
right
as
a
developer.
The
first
thing
you
want
to
do
is
figure
out
how
you're
going
to
be
updating
software
right
as
a
protocol
developer.
AP
So
you
know
we
have
a
protocol
upgrade
process
as
smart
contract
developers.
We
have
a
smart
contract
upgrade
process,
and
this
is
why,
on
near,
actually,
both
of
those
things
are
made
very,
you
know
very
much
easier
than
on
any
other
blockchain,
because
those
are
important
parts.
How
do
we
continue
pushing
things
forward?
AP
So
I'll
just
show
this
again
just
kind
of
to
show
clearly
what
is
the
scope
of
the
ecosystem
right?
This
is
all
kind
of
different
parties
and
kind
of
stakeholders,
and
I
mean
this
does
not
include
everyone.
Obviously,
that
are
participating
that
are
kind
of
pushing
forward
the
ecosystem
right.
This
is
regional
hubs
like
across
the
whole
world
and
we're
expanding
and
there's
been
a
few
announced
this
week
and
more
are
coming.
This
is
funding
nodes
again,
kairoso's
announce
is
more
coming
dedicated
for
specific
verticals
or
covering
all
of
the
kind
of
near
ecosystem.
G
All
right,
hey
appreciate
it
ilya
and
thank
you
everyone
glad
to
be
here
for
you,
those
that
don't
know
me.
I've
been
in
the
ecosystem
since,
before
mainnet
been
involved
in
many
projects,
initiatives
throughout
the
ecosystem,
so
I
felt
like
it
was
a
good
thing
to
step
up
on
this
initiative
and
really
take
the
step
forward
to
help
lead
it
in
terms
of
stewarding.
G
Let's
see
here
on
this
one,
yes,
okay,
all
right,
so
we
talked
about
ilia,
casa
vision
for
this
right,
so
the
vision
was
at
ecc
of
what
this
was
going
to
be
so
now
we're
taking
that
vision
and
we're
moving
it
into
strategy
that
will
then
move
into
execution
right.
So
there's
a
lot
to
do
with
that.
So
in
terms
of
establishing
a
framework,
that's
ecosystem-wide,
we
need
a
constitution,
a
legal
framework,
community
engagement
guidelines,
governance
framework
and
processes,
and
we
need
a
technical
government's
development
plan.
G
So
I
would
say
that
you
know
one
of
the
things
that's
interesting
is
that
it's
going
to
be
a
process
that
we
go
through
to
identify
this,
but
we
also
want
to
move
at
a
pace
where
it
makes
sense
and
we
don't
get
lost
in
analysis,
paralysis
and
we
can
actually
make
movement
forward
sooner
than
later.
So
progress
is
key
here
in
terms
of
the
legal
framework
we're
looking
at
setting
up
that
for
the
treasury.
G
So
on
the
treasury,
we're
looking
at
you
know
how
do
we
move
those
funds
into
the
treasury?
What's
the
management
processes
around
that?
How
do
we
submit
budgets
to
that
and
then
make
sure
that
those
are
fulfilled
and
that
people
are
actually
executing
on
what
they
say?
They're
doing
so
I'm
just
giving
a
little
bit
more
detail
on
each
one
of
these
community
engagement
guidelines
right.
What's
it
mean
to
be
a
member
of
this
community
right?
If
there's
a
dispute,
what
process
do
we
have
to
go
through?
So
there's
a
lot
of
things.
G
The
code
of
conduct
is
in
there.
This
community
work
group
has
already
formulated
a
lot
of
these
documents,
so
we'll
be
putting
those
up
through
the
process
and
putting
those
forward
on
the
governance
framework
and
processes.
So
now
we've
got
a
constitution.
We've
got
a
legal
framework.
We've
got
some
community
guidelines.
How
do
we
implement
this
on
chain
in
reality,
so
that
there's
traceability
visibility,
a
lot
of
those
things,
so
that's
what
we'd
be
working
through
there
and
then
the
technical
government's
plan
similar
that's
the
implementation
of
our
governance
framework,
but
okay.
G
So
where
do
we
stand
today?
So
on
august
26,
a
call
for
participation
went
out,
so
there
was
a
call
of
over
50
plus
ecosystem
partners.
Developers
founders
involved
community
members
that
came
in
there
and
and
joined
a
call,
and
the
call
was
this:
let's
activate
this
for
the
community,
the
community's
been
requesting
for
quite
some
time,
additional
self-government,
governance
management
of
their
own
treasury.
So
that's
where
the
call
to
action
went
out.
We
quickly
then
turned
around
and
formed
work
groups
from
that
call.
G
G
Next,
we
drafted
a
manifesto,
so
what's
it
mean
to
be
what's
our
manifesto
for
this
community
and
for
this
vision
that
has
been
posted
on
the
governance
forum?
All
of
these
documents
are
out
there
for
you
to
review.
Then
we
moved
on
to
the
preamble.
What's
actually
the
vision
of
this,
because,
as
we
were
moving
into
this,
a
lot
of
folks
are
saying.
Well,
I
don't
quite
understand
it,
so
you
can
look
at
the
preamble
and
it
gives
you
an
idea
of
actually
what
we're
trying
to
accomplish.
G
We
submitted
a
grant
proposal
in
draft
form
by
the
way.
All
of
these
are
community
initiatives,
so
you
can
go
out.
There
provide
your
feedback
on
the
governance
forum
and
we
can
interact
to
iterate
on
these
to
make
sure
that
we've
got
the
right
model
for
the
entire
ecosystem,
so
that
was
placed
forward
to
request
the
initial
treasury
transfer
to
the
community
as
well
as
kind
of
the
guidelines
for
what
needed
to
take
place
before
funds
would
be
released.
G
So
that's
out
there
for
your
your
review,
so
we're
looking
at
a
proposed
structure
for
the
legal
framework,
a
gersonary
trust.
So
with
that
instrument,
we've
got
to
identify
who
the
trustees
will
be,
like
I
mentioned
before,
and
the
processes
around
that.
So
that's
another
work
group
on
the
legal
framework
that's
taking
place.
G
Where
are
we
going
now?
So
what
we've
been
doing
here
at
near
con?
So
there
was
a
work
group
session
where
we
brought
together
all
the
folks.
That
said,
hey
I'm
interested
in
discord,
telegram
on
the
governance
forum
that
we're
at
near
khan,
and
we
did
a
working
session
to
break
those
folks
up
into
groups
so
that
they
could
do
more
gelling
and
really
begin
to
talk
amongst
one
another
with
what
their
specific
work
group
was
going
to
accomplish.
G
That
way,
we
can
get
to
real
milestones
and
timelines,
and
that's
really
what
we're
working
to
identify
now.
Also
we're
looking
up
the
manifesto,
the
preamble
and
the
grant
request
to
get
those
finalized.
So
we
welcome
your
feedback
on
the
governance
form
to
review
those
put
your
thoughts
in
your
comments.
If
you
see
something
that
you
you
think's
missing
or
needs
added
or
amended,
this
is
the
time
to
participate.
G
Next,
what
we'll
be
working
on
is
drafting
the
constitution,
so
that's
already
started
in
draft
form.
We've
taken
the
leads
of
that
group
put
them
together,
so
we've
been
began
to
ideate
on
what
that's
actually
going
to
be.
We've
asked
you
know:
what's
the
questions
that
this
constitution
is
meant
to
answer
so
when
it
is
completed,
we
actually
know
it's
finished,
so
we're
planning
to
have
a
draft
of
that
within
the
next
week
to
week
and
a
half
for
the
community
review
it's
an
iterative
process.
G
It
will
by
no
means
be
complete
initially,
but
we
want
to
get
something
out
there
so
that
it's
in
the
minds
of
the
community
of
what
we're
trying
to
do.
We'll
then
also
work
on
the
governance
framework
that
that
work
group
is
already
working
on
this.
What
does
it
mean?
How
do
we
vote?
What
are
the
terms?
G
How
do
we,
you
know,
have
houses
that
vote
against?
You
know
things:
what's
the
veto
power
there's
a
lot
that
has
to
go
into
that
governance
framework
to
actually
make
this
executable
unchanged
and
then
finally,
we'll
review
and
finalize
all
of
those
community
documents
and
get
those
out
there
for
the
community
to
review
and
process,
then
we'll
move
on
to
the
governance
framework?
You
know,
that's
really
going
to
be.
How
do
we
make
decisions
on
chain?
What
does
visibility
mean?
G
Is
visibility
actually
truth
right
and
transparency,
so
we
need
to
find
some
of
those
things
we'll
work
through
that
process
and
get
that
implemented
and
then
we'll
have
the
instrument
get
the
trustees
appointed
request
the
foundation
once
we
have.
These
precursors
in
place
request
them
to
actually
transfer
the
funds
to
the
treasury
and
then
we'll
begin
the
process
of
elaborating
on
this
further.
G
So
what
do
we
need?
We
need
you,
the
community
right,
it's
a
call
for
action.
We
need
everyone
that
has
a
role
to
participate
in
in
the
community
to
join
this
initiative.
Join
this
effort
define
our
future.
How
we
want
to
do
governance,
treasury
management.
You
know
community
guidelines,
all
these
things
from
a
community
perspective,
so
help
the
mission.
You
know
help
us
decentralize,
the
future.
That's
what
the
whole
goal
is
here
to
decentralize.
G
AP
Yeah
I
mean,
in
final
words,
this
is
a
huge
effort
right.
This
is
something
that
you
know.
The
comparison
of
this
is
forming
of
like
countries,
government
that
is
able
to
continuously
evolve
and
continuously
support
its
citizens
and
its
ecosystem,
and
so
for
us,
I
think,
as
a
ecosystem.
It's
important
to
both
take
lessons
from
what's
already
happened
and
also
use
the
tools
that
we
have
now
with
blockchain
with
technologies.
AP
We
built
to
truly
have
something
that
is
efficient,
transparent
kind
of,
as
you
know,
least,
bureaucratic
as
possible
and
less
political
as
possible,
while
continue
kind
of
supporting
this
ecosystem
near
is
probably
one
of
the
most
decentralized
ecosystems
out
there.
We've
kind
of
went
through
a
number
of
efforts
to
continue.
Decentralizing
continue
evolving
this,
and
so
with
that
we
need
kind
of
support
of
everyone
to
coordinate
this
and
to
make
it
truly
work
and
be
one
kind
of
greatest
place
for
everyone
to
build
and
to
use
web
3..
I
I
I
know
I've
had
an
amazing
few
days
hearing
all
the
different
talks
seeing
everyone
building
at
the
hackathon
seeing
the
various
panels.
It's
been
a
while
drive.
So
before
we
wrap
this
up.
We
have
a
bit
of
a
reflection
over
the
last
few
days
and
we'd
love
to
you
know,
show
you
everyone
in
action,
so
roll
the
tape.
AQ
D
Little
story
because
I
think
we're
waiting
for
slides
to
come
up,
but
before
the
event
it
was
actually
a
lot
of
work
and
it
was
a
lot
of
stress
and
I
thought
I'm
really
looking
forward
to
the
event
being
over
and
now
that
it's
over
I'm
actually
sad
so
yeah.
I
just
wanted
to
share
that
now.
We
have
the
slide,
so
we
can
go
into
it.
Let's
start.
D
AP
Walking
around
you've
all
seen
this
amazing
projects
and
and
teams
that
are
contributing
to
the
ecosystem
and
have
been
sponsoring
so
want
to
thank
them
again
to
be
here
to
present
their
work.
To
sponsor
this.
To
get
this
off
the
ground
and
yeah
I
mean
like.
I
don't.
I
don't
even
know
how
to
shout
out
for
this,
because
it's
obviously
a
huge
work
for
everyone
to
come
here
to
set
up
everything
to
be
at
the
booth.
D
And
thank
you
also
to
our
media
partners.
Who've
been
here,
who've
actually
been
shouting
about
your
stories
that
are
coming
through.
There's
been
a
ton
of
coverage
again
across
the
world,
not
only
here.
So
thank
you
in
particular
to
coindesk
for
being
here
and
supporting
us
and
to
the
rest
of
the
media
partners.
D
AP
Know
if
you've
been
keeping
up
with
news,
because
you
know
it's
super
busy,
but
we
have
announced
a
kairos
ventures
launch,
which
is
a
100
million
fund,
which
is
specifically
focused
on
sports
and
entertainment
with
nathan,
who
is
somewhere
here,
and
it's
been
amazing,
because
this
is
something
that
will
you
know,
continue
pushing
the
envelope
off,
integrating
with
real
users
with
real
people
who
are
fans
of
sport.
Who
are
you
know,
kind
of
interactive
as
entertainment
and
get
kind
of
you
know
us,
like
obviously
like
pretty
much.
AP
Every
single
big
league
is
like
a
billion
user
kind
of
ecosystem
right
so
like
connecting
with
them.
Connecting
with
you
know,
movies,
industry,
etc.
Is
how
we
get
in
front
of
this
and
how
we
get
to
this
billion
user
goal
that
you
know
still
there.
Obviously,
we
also
continue
putting
the
rails
right
continue,
integrating
into
the
kind
of
global
crypto
ecosystem,
and
so
we've
announced
usdt
integration.
D
More
more
has
been
coming.
You've
just
heard
that
from
the
from
the
presentation
before,
but
continuing
to
decentralize
in
the
right
way
is
absolutely
critical.
We're
super
happy
to
see
that
the
working
group
is
starting
to
come
through
and
form
around
that
not
only
that,
but
sharding
is
absolutely
mind-blowing
and
that
has
been
done
without
any
disruption
to
any
user
or
any
developer.
So
the
merge
we
are
waiting
for
you.
We
are
ahead.
AP
Regional
hubs
right-
I
mentioned
a
few
times,
because
this
is
kind
of
core
to
our
belief
core.
To
our
way,
we
we
believe
kind
of
the
world
is
evolving,
is
being
local
in
different
ecosystems,
and
it's
also
developing
markets
and
we've
announced
here
that
we're
setting
up
one
in
india
and
one
in
vietnam
which
have
been
operating
and
actually
is
here,
they're
present
here
they
have
a
boost.
So
I
mean
I
want
to
give
a
huge
shout
out
to
all
regional
hubs
to
be
clear
for
supporting
for
building
for
attracting
people
for
making
this
possible.
D
So
we
we
wanted
to
do
something
to
shout
out
for
the
women
who
are
not
only
building
on
there
but
just
building
in
the
web
in
general,
and
so
this
year
was
the
first
inaugural
year
of
our
women
in
web
3
list.
We
had
over
170
women
that
have
been
put
forward
and
then
10
of
those
amazing
women
have
been
actually
voted
by
the
community
to
be
showcased
as
role
model
again.
I
think
this
is
hugely
important
as
an
initiative
we're
just
getting
started,
but
congratulations
to
all
the
winners.
AP
This
has
happened
yesterday.
The
sweatcoin,
which
is
120
million
users
installs
with
a
13.7
million
accounts
on
nir,
have
launched
their
talking
generation
event.
They
have
already
have
two
million
active
users
already
they
have
their
app
their
separate
wallet,
app
that
had
zero
installs,
already
been
trending
across
multiple
regions,
and
so,
where
you
have
like
hundred
two
hundred
thousand
users
already
staked
their
sweat.
So
we're
just.
D
AP
So,
at
the
same
time,
we
had
a
hackathon.
If
you
have
not
seen
them,
I
don't
know
what
they
were
doing.
There
was
a
huge
kind
of
group
of
people
just
hacking
on
this
people
did
not
sleep
and
we
had
98
submissions
to
be
clear.
That
beat
our
expectations,
I
think
by
three
and
so
yeah
500
active
participants,
people
being
you
know,
creating
amazing
projects,
and
we
were
just
judging
and
kind
of
evaluating
top
ten,
but
one
we
wanted
to
highlight
specifically
is
pomegranate
because
the
they
delivered
a
project
that
both
hits.
AP
You
know
simplicity
of
usage,
sustainability
and
kind
of
on
the
goal
of
like
cutting.
You
know
creating
a
direct
connection
between
creators
and
users.
They
have
a
chrome
extension
that
if
you
install
it
and
the
website
integrates
as
one
line
a
piece
of
code,
you
actually
can
pretty
much.
You
replace
ads
with
a
subscription
model
and
you
paint
directly
to
a
creator
for
interacting
with
their
website.
This
is
amazing,
I
hope
they
launch
this
on
mainnet
and
we
can
start
getting
people
to
use
this.
D
You
can
scale
with
that
limit
because
sharding
we've
done
that
and
we're
going
to
continue
doing
that.
You
can
explore
with
that
limits
because,
whatever
you
are
and
wherever
you
are,
you
have
flexible
account
models,
so,
let's
continue
to
create
without
limits
to
build
beyond
the
hype
and
to
get
to
one
billion
users.
Thank
you.