►
Description
Xiaohan Zhu (https://twitter.com/xiaohanzhu) and CTO Illia Polosukhin (https://twitter.com/ilblackdragon) talk about Meter.io in the 27th episode of the Whiteboard Session. Meter provides infrastructure for DeFi.
------- About Whiteboard Series ---------
The Whiteboard Series with NEAR is a set of video interviews with Founders who are building scalable solutions for Blockchain. We deep dive into their story, what they're developing and how it is helping the ecosystem.
Follow the latest from NEAR Protocol on,
Discord: https://near.ai/discord
Medium: https://near.ai/medium
Twitter: https://near.ai/twitter
GitHub: https://near.ai/github
#WhiteboardSeries #Blockchain #FutureIsNEAR
A
B
Sure
so
hi
everyone,
my
name,
is
Xiao
Han
Zhu
I
actually
have
an
engineering
background
like
for
a
while
and
then
I
move
to
like
investment
finance,
so
I
used
to
run
a
VC
fund
cause
the
MT
capital.
We
invest
in
Kryptos
and
blockchains,
that's
back
in
2016.
That's
how
I
got
into
the
space
and
then,
while
investing
in
this
project,
we've
been
just
thinking
like.
What's
the
evaluation,
how
do
we
value
these
cryptocurrencies?
What
are
the
fundamental
use
cases?
B
So
that's
when
we
realized
that
we
need
to
create
a
different
type
of
infrastructure
to
really
empower
decentralized
businesses.
So
that's
how
we
started
meter
so,
basically
on
a
high
level
meter.
The
goal
of
the
meter
of
the
meter
project
is
to
create
Alibaba
web
3.
What
it
means
is
that
we
want
to
basically
standarized
interconnect,
values
and
then
settle
them
on
blockchain
quickly.
So
fundamentally,
we
do
three
things.
One
is
that
we
create
a
universal
unit,
account
that's
native
for
crypto,
not
linked
to
any
fiat
currencies,
but
fundamentally
it's
economically
stable
in
value.
B
Secondly,
we
basically
redesigned
the
consensus
and
the
game
inside
PR
the
economic
game
inside
crypto
currencies
to
create
a
faster
consensus
approach
and,
finally,
we
support
inner
communication
with
existing
crypto
currencies
like
Bitcoin
in
Syria
and
also
in
the
future.
Other
block
chains
like
near,
for
example,
maybe
yeah.
Oh
yeah,
that's
a
high-level
review,
yeah.
B
Sure
so
maybe,
let's
start
with
the
stable
unit
of
account
sure
yeah.
So
basically,
if
you
look
at
all
the
crypto
currency
today,
for
example
like
Bitcoin
well,
when
Bitcoin
was
designed,
I
think
Satoshi
in
one
of
his
like
emails.
France
can
comment
on
that.
Basically,
it
wasn't
sure
how
to
design
the
the
monetary
policy
to
be
like
like
to
be
like
basically,
and
she
knew
so
that's.
B
Why,
like
he
put
in
like
the
21
million
hard
copy
in
there,
which
made
Bitcoin
that
excellent
a
vehicle
for
investment
because
of
the
limited
supply
the
richest
supply,
but
for
any
economy.
When
the
system
grows,
you
run
into
a
deflationary
issue
and
in
a
deflationary
economy
it
actually
discourages
production
and
investment.
So
let's
say
if
I'm,
like
a
baker
so
like
today,
I,
for
example,
purchase
the
flour
purchase
sugar
with
some
currencies.
B
I
want
to
make
cake
and
make
a
make
a
cake
of
several
cakes
and
sell
them
tomorrow
to
exchange
for
more
currencies,
but
in
a
deflationary
economy.
It
is
possible
that
the
next
day,
when
you
sell
it,
because
it
takes
time
for
you
to
create
the
pay,
create
the
cake.
The
the
currency
itself
already
rise
in
value
and
the
amount
of
currency
you
can
exchange
for
is
even
less
and
the
ingredients
you
you
pay
so
which
make
it
doesn't
make
sense
for
people
to
do
any
long
term.
Investment
or
production.
B
To
just
like
held
your
currency,
just
asleep
hodo,
how
do
we
yeah
yeah?
So
basically
that's
a
and
also,
basically,
if
you
look
at
any
financial
assets
on
concern,
for
example,
because
of
this
issue
over
the
long
run,
you
will
see
your
financial
products
or
like
financial
assets
drop
in
value
in
term
of
this
area.
So
when
the
buyers
see
these
are
kind
of
issues,
why
would
they
hold
your
financial
products
right?
I
mean
why
not
just
hold
the
the
platform
currency,
so
in
that
case
you
are
essentially
competing
with
your
own
ecosystem.
B
So
that's
a
that's
the
same.
We
would
like
to
change,
but
in
order
to
create
something
like
that,
we
need
to
basically
create
a
like
a
model
that
fundamentally
link
the
cryptocurrency
creation
with
physical
values
in
the
physical
world.
So,
basically
you
can
imagine
like
we
have
two
world
right,
so
we
have
the
physical
world
and
we
have
the
crypto
world.
C
B
B
B
And
there's
another
one,
you
probably
call
it
grows
back.
Basically,
this
is
an
algorithm
based
yeah
stable
points.
So
basically
we
feel
there
are
centralization
issues
in
all
of
these
approaches.
So,
for
example,
first
for
all
the
grows
back
like
cryptocurrency
I
mean
like
a
stable
coins.
We
don't
feel
any
of
them
a
valid
so
far,
so
we
can
ignore
this
case.
Basically,
for
the
other
two
approaches
like
fiat
value,.
B
I
had
to
sit
on
the
pan
for
the
crypto
back
there.
Actually,
although
they
they
seem
to
be
like
decentralized,
but
there
is
a
centralized
to
Oracle
in
there
and
the
Oracle
is
actually
one
of
the
single
point
of
failure
in
the
system.
So
there
is
a
project
called
Phoenix
right,
so
just
so
like
last
week,
because
one
of
the
round
data
feeds
in
their
Oracle,
they
created
like
37
millions
and
study
this.
B
Translates
to
like
seven
billion
dollar
in
like
paper
value,
so
you
can
see
like
if
you
build
a
financial
system
on
top
of,
like
certain
data
feed,
there's
a
potential
risk
in
a
system
and
though
you're
like,
for
example,
even
your
Oracle
system
is
designed
very
strong,
very
robust,
but
still
the
data
feed
itself.
There
may
be
centralization
issues
and
also
maybe
like
failure
issues
as
well.
Do.
A
B
So
that's
a
very
challenging
problem
because,
for
example,
none
of
the
software
we
can
guarantee
hundred-percent
like
reliability
right,
even
the
software
is
reliable.
The
hower
may
have
issues.
So
if
a
public
chain
running
into
this
issue
and
yeah,
maybe
it
will
just
stop
like
processing
transaction
for
a
couple
hours
or
something.
But
if
data
feed
is
wrong
like
it
could
potentially
collapse
the
entire
system.
So
fundamentally,
we
feel
these
type
of
approach
is
more
like
enterprise,
software
level,
security,
not
store
value
levels
of
security.
B
But
let's
talk
about
like
a
store
value
level
of
security.
How
this
can
be
done
right.
So
basically
would
just
now
we
mentioned
the
impossible
Trinity.
Please
say
it
based
on
this.
In
order
to
have
a
fixed
exchange
with
fiat
currency,
there's
only
two
ways
to
do
it.
One
is
the
you
have
the
Chinese
approach.
You
do
not
allow
free
flow
of
capital
so
which
no
one
likes
right
or
you
have
the
Hong
Kong
approach.
B
B
So
the
approach
a
meter
is
taking
as
instead
of
trying
to
pack
with
any
fiat
currency
we
give
up
on
this
edge
and
take
the
other
two
edges
so
basically
we're
trying
to
create
a
basically
essentially
a
new
currency,
that's
native
in
the
crypto
world,
but
fundamentally
it's
impossible
to
cheat
and
economic
economically
is
stable,
so
how
it
works
is
basically
just
now
we
talked
about
this
two
worlds.
Right.
B
C
B
B
Yeah,
it's
okay
to
lower
their
OPEX,
essentially,
so
what
we
do
differently
from
Bitcoin
is
Bitcoin
because
the
supply
is
set
fixed.
So
the
only
response
Bitcoin
can
have
to
the
to
the
supply
and
demand
is
basically
the
price,
like
basically
the
price
changes
based
on
supply
and
demand.
So
for
what
we
are,
we
have
a
fixed
production
cost
in
the
system,
so
in
order
to
create
one
meter,
so
the
cost
of
production
for
proven
work
mining
is
always
around
ten
kilowatt
hour
of
electricity.
B
Exactly
so,
basically
from
the
miners
perspective,
they
will
only
create
the
coin
when
it
economically
makes
sense
for
that,
which
means,
though,
there's
enough
margin
for
them
to
do
the
footwork
mining
and
that
profit
chasing
behavior
will
naturally
create
a
feedback
to
the
system.
He
essentially
creates
a
discipline
to
a
monetary
policy
in
the
system
so
basically
like
over
the
long
run,
it
will
settle
at
like
basically
essentially
pact
to
the
competitive
price
of
electricity,
yeah.
A
B
And
we
actually
have
data
like
show
you
miss.
Basically,
if
you
look
at
the
competitive
price
of
electricity,
so
we're
and
then
we
have
data
like
this,
so
this
is
from
1960s,
let's
say:
there's
2013.
So
basically
this
is
the
measure
by
US
dollar
and
this
line
it's
basically
the
real
price
which
means
suggested
for
inflation.
So
basically,
over
these
period,
the.
B
B
So
that's
on
the
high
level
how
we
create
that
like
unit
of
account,
but
once
you
do
this,
that
involves
some
changes
in
the
consensus,
because
when
you
design
the
economics
and
games
like
this,
the
hashing
power
in
the
system
is
no
longer
gonna
be
stable.
So
there
you
cannot
like
protect
the
system
just
through
the
hashing
power
itself.
So
basically
that's
what
we
do
in
our
consensus:
innovation,
yeah.
B
B
A
B
Actually,
the
way
to
look
at
it
is
because
there
need
to
be
enough
margin
for
the
Bitcoin
miners,
so
the
price
where
it
settles
that
we
believe
is
gonna,
be
a
one
to
two
dollar
range
for
this
for
this,
because
even
for
example,
like
it's
six
cents
like
for
the
competitive
electricity
price,
which
translates
to
60
cents
right,
but
for
a
normal
like
operation
for
there's
to
be
enough
margins
for
the
miners,
you
will
see
the
price
settles
between
1
to
$2.
Just.
A
B
C
B
Which
is
perfect
when,
like
Satoshi
design
is
because,
when
you
first
design
like
a
game
like
this,
you
need
to
make
it
simple
and
you
need
to
have
like
involved
party
as
little
as
possible,
but
when
the
system
got
mature,
you'll
notice,
this
is
actually
completely
two
different
consensus.
I
mean
the
record-keeping
and
currency
creation,
basically
record-keeping
what
you
trying
to
provide
prevent
as
the
double
spending
part.
So
that
is
actually
directly
observable
to
all
the
participants
in
an
hour.
B
You
just
need
to
make
sure
the
information
is
hourly
propagated,
so
that
doesn't
require
a
lot
of
energy
but
there's
another
consensus,
which
is
the
economic
consensus
plus
how
much
the
newly-created
coins
are
worse.
How
much
new
value
has
been
added
to
the
system
that
is
implicit
and
obviously
that
requires
a
lot
more
energy
to
reach
that
consensus.
So,
basically
in
a
proof
of
work
system,
it's
a
miners
that
reaching
that
consensus,
but
in
the
proof
of
stake
system,
there's
actually
people
only
care
about
the
first
recordkeeping
consensus.
B
There's
not
much
consensus
like
the
the
economic
part,
so
typically
like
people
will
just
say,
like
we
have
like
certain
inflation
rate
and
if
you
participate
in
staking
you
will
not
be
diluted.
If
you
don't,
then
you'll
be
cut,
alluded
in
the
system
right.
So
that's
a
that's
a
proof
of
stake,
so
a
meter.
Basically,
we
separate
the
two
consensus
explicitly.
B
So
we
use
the
proof
of
work
for
currency
creation
for
notional
time
and
one
of
the
sources
for
randomness
and
the
record-keeping
is
done
by
basically
proof
of
stake
and
we
have
two
tokens
as
well
the
proof
of
stake
token.
We
call
it
governance
token.
So,
basically,
you
have
to
stake
that
to
participate
in
the
and
a
proof
of
stake,
record-keeping
process.
So
in
our
system
we
have
a
like
a
hybrid
chain
approach,
so.
B
B
B
So
basically
pure
Article
II
these
key
frames.
This
is
what
you
park
right
like
they
will
merge
with
each
other
and
cross
reference.
Each
other
put
the
Merkel
rows
on
each
other,
but
basically
all
the
proof
of
work
chain.
There
is
no
transaction
record
down
there.
There
is
just
basically
like
solutions
for
the
puzzle
and
the
difficulty
like.
B
Basically,
you
calculate
a
bunch
of
solutions
to
the
puzzle
and
at
the
end
of
the
epoch,
you
submit
it
to
the
proof
of
stake
side
competitively
basically
trying
to
claim
the
the
reverse
for
this
chain
and
basically
prove
a
stake.
Side
will
look
at
which
chain
is
longer.
So
basically
we
have
a
certain
threshold.
Let's
say
each
epoch
target
is
like
60
minutes
right,
so
let's
say
60
minutes,
and
each
of
you
prefer
work
block
on
average
is
one
minute.
So
whenever
is
greater
than
60
like
here,
the
approval
steak
side
knows
this.
B
C
B
A
B
So
whoever
gets
the
approval
on
the
proof
of
stake
sack.
Basically,
the
proposer
on
the
Rufus
egg
side
will
just
say:
hey:
this
is
the
longest
chance
I
see,
do
you
guys
agree
and
if
I
got
more
than
2/3
people
voting
on
this
is
the
longest
chain
they
see,
then
basically,
this
is
chase
is
chosen
and
if
you
couldn't
reach
like
an
agreement,
we
move
to
the
next,
like
a
proof
of
stake,
proposer
we're
actually
changing
like
the
leader
for
every
block
to
profess
that
we.
B
Basically,
actually
like,
like
the
way
we're
looking
at
is
in
the
future.
These
will
be
mostly
run
by
mining
pools
as
well,
so
like
mining
pools
all
have
like
the
DDoS
like
in
Canada.
We
also
I
mean
because
my
name
polls
recently
have
a
lot
of
sayings.
They
are
looking
as
well.
For
example,
there's
like
there's
a
hidden
block
attack
that
they
they
they
are
really
concerned,
but
they
couldn't
solve
the
problem
without
part
of
protocol
level.
B
Support
we're
gonna
support
that
to
be
more
family
to
the
mining
pools
yeah
but
like
you,
can
also
like.
Have
your
own
pool
mining
as
well
yeah
and
also
on
the
proof
of
stakes
at
all
of
the
validator,
were
run,
we'll
be
listening
to
the
pre
o
W,
like
Network
as
well.
So,
basically
they're
running,
like
sort
of
like
a
foo
note
on
POWs,
face
yeah.
A
I
mean
my
yeah,
just
my
main
point
is
like
let's
say
you
know:
there's
a
bunch
of
validate
like
Bruce
take
validators.
If
some
of
them
are
inside,
one
pool
like
this
pool
will
be
preferred
just
because
they'll
get
the
info
faster,
like
they
produce
the
block
in
the
first
place.
So
it's
all
just
propagate-
and
this
is
you
said
this
is
three
seconds
right,
yeah
so
like.
How
long
is
your
like?
This
is
one
minute
yeah.
So
what
is
the
propagation
time
for
blocks
because
o.
B
So
that's
a
like
how
the
to
token
system
works.
Basically,
we
have
like
unchanged
options
for
the
for
the
governance
token.
So
basically,
let's
say
today
like
I
have
three
governance
token,
but
the
government's
talking
is
the
proof
of
stake.
Token
right,
like
released
so
basically
in
order
to
like
compete
for
this
three
tokens,
like
people
have
to
bid
with
the
currency
token,
let's
say
I
put
in
like
five
currency
token,.
B
To
the
for
like
competing
for
this
governance
token
right
so
after
I
win,
the
reward
I
mean
after
I
win
the
dumbness
token.
This,
like
basic
a
five
currency,
token,
belongs
to
the
system
now
right,
so
basically,
what
we
do
is
a
portion
of
them
will
be
distributed
to
into
a
liquor
reserve.
Let's
say
this
two
goes
to
like
a
reserve
pool
and
then
goes
back
to
all
the
prophets
like
validators
as.
B
Bloc,
rework
gradually
release
block-by-block
basis,
and
then
a
portion
of
them
will
be
where
we
have.
Something
called
like
a
stability
fund
well
put
into
that
fund
is
also
a
reserve
system
and
the
rest
will
be
burned.
So
basically,
the
burning
will
create
like
continues,
in
fact
on
removing
currency
from
circulation.
B
B
Basically,
that's
the
governance,
right
and
record-keeping
right
of
the
system
so
think
about
like
this
is
the
the
banking
system
of
the
entire
financial
system
right
well.
This
basically
represents
the
governance
rights
in
the
banking
system
and
this
token
can
actually
extract
values
from
the
from
the
system,
for
example,
from
transaction
fees,
from
like
state
storage
and
also
from,
for
example,
the
daily
auctions.
B
A
B
C
A
B
A
A
B
B
B
B
B
A
A
A
A
B
B
C
B
C
B
Like
basically
create
the
initial
like
demand
for
a
user,
a
man
like
for
people
to
vote
the
immigrant
and
then
as
more
and
more
people
immigrate
to
the
country,
there
will
be
like
more
and
more
business
like
running
in
the
country
like
the
economy
will
be
growing.
Then
the
percentage
of
the
auction
of
the
Parliament
seats
will
become
less
and
less
and
less
important
than
the
system.
B
So
basically,
there
is
also
a
state
storage,
for
example,
in
any
like,
like
a
smart
contract
system,
you
need
to
like
have
a
storage
space
for
the
for
the
states
right.
So
basically,
in
order
to
basically,
let's
say,
create
a
smart
contract,
you
actually
need
to
have
some
carbons
token
to
basically
secure
that
storage.
A
B
A
Yeah
I
see
yeah
and,
like
the
part
I'm
like
trying
to
figure
out,
which
probably
requires
a
little
bit
more
involved
but
like
how
much
it
goes
like
you
actually
have
this
like
pretty
interesting
connectivity
between
meter,
tog,
meter,
tokens,
governess,
talkin
C
students
like
how
much
new
got
new
meter
tokens
get
issued
and
yeah
like,
presumably
so
so.
Okay,
let's
say:
let's
work
for
this
example.
So
meter
price
is
under
whatever
is
10
kilowatt
price
yeah.
So
because.
A
B
A
A
B
A
A
B
C
B
A
Okay,
yeah
yeah,
so
this
will
add
funds
in
the
system
if
right
now,
people
because
way,
because
this
you're
exchanging
meter
token
for
governance
right
here,
you're
exchanging
government's
talking
for
meter
yeah,
so
I
mean,
like
WS
thing
is
like
by
some
governments
talking
take
out
some
meter
by
more
governance.
Talk
if.
B
C
B
A
C
A
You,
but
that's
what
I'm
saying
like
so
if
everybody
wants
to
buy
meter
talking,
so
nobody
wants
to
buy
governance
talking
right
now.
Nobody
wants
to
return
governance.
No,
nobody
wants
to
get
their
loan
back.
Everybody
just
gets
like
holds
their
meter
like
there's
no
meter
been
burned
right.
I'll
say
it
again.
So
if,
if
meter
price
is
down
yeah,
it's
down
right
yeah.