NEAR Whiteboard Series with NEAR | Technical Deep Dive Sessions, 18 Jan 2019

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: Whiteboard Series with NEAR | Ep: 3 Jun Li from Ontology |

Description

In the third episode of our Whiteboard Series with NEAR, we had Jun Li (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jun-li-58950069/) from Ontology speaking with our Founders Alex Skidinov (https://twitter.com/AlexSkidanov) and Illia Polosukhin (https://twitter.com/ilblackdragon)

Learn more about Ontology here: https://ont.io/

Download the video here: https://near.ai/onto4ba4

Follow the latest from NEAR Protocol on,

Discord: https://near.ai/discord
Medium: https://near.ai/medium
Twitter: https://near.ai/twitter
GitHub: https://near.ai/github

#FutureIsNEAR #BlockchainProtocols #TechTalk

A

Hi everybody it's Alex and Ilya from near and we are continuing our whiteboarding series today was as Jim Lee from anthology.

A

Do you want to talk a little bit about yourself and the ontology and yeah.

B

Well, I'm between actually is my family name. It's maybe your Nesta, so you can call me trendy as well and I'm a founder of ontology, also his co-founder function unchanged. Earliest technical company in China protein doctor company on China, yeah, I'm, actually work for IT and the FinTech fields before the oncology, Nanshan I'm working for the CFX China financial, future exchange, China's largest traditional financial exchange, media designs, a exchange system and something and five years ago, I guess I case leading approach in some investigation, team and I. Think: okay, it's a.

C

Huge things in.

B

That time is not security things, no one, no broad chain, only no Bitcoin, so I appeared on chain unchanged. Another copy co-founder is comfy, it's the founder of new, so with the other on chain to private technical service in China or globally, and also we priority the public service, polish yeah, okay,.

A

Great so, let's start super high level. Do you want to describe how pretty much ontology like model works from perspective of? What's simple attack resistance, consensus algorithm, we can expand from there yeah.

B

I can do a very brief architecture. Very brief introduction first, is on today's come from multiple chin is not only one chance, it's more chance, which means they have different. We have the public chamber here right. Public chain is in this chain. We are using a consensus model called baby ft v BF t this one is the post plus vif the office, verify both the functionality and PFT okay, it says, but it's channel work, you still have a we called and penis. She knows. What's up changes.

B

Is this fun and different shampoos here is channel and the channel work they can use different consensus models. We private is immobilized consensus models, for example, they can use okay, I can use just very simple depose, all those kind of things or just use PFT base like the DB, ft or other delicate DP ft those concerns, and they have a product house to impact each other. The protocols currently like him I changed assets.

C

A

B

Next protocol she is beta and the English way we want to also use do the transaction. The transaction is not not only like Bitcoin transaction SS, you can transaction means. If you have a Bailey's process, this one can do the step one. This one can do this table. Yes,.

C

This kind of things.

B

Yeah, this is a basic architecture and for the infrastructure parts this is our. We can call them. Prague change infrastructure yep in this part, but ontology is actually two platform. Okay,.

C

You said yeah this.

B

Platform is above the infrastructure we call them is trust, collaboration, duration platform platform. They include a lot of models. Many models include PID distance, wise identity, Mario's DD XF is disputed data exchange framework and the aunt scope. Let's go sorry. This is reputation, reputation, reputation, system and also on the sign currently have more module coming understand its electronic, the electronic contract and the signature service. All those things which we do this platform is for for do real business, real business, yeah.

A

So this is all like smart contracts pretty much on top of it.

B

Smart contracts and it was a space on a small contract, but have it be motorized and be the flexible functionality? Those two parts platform is so important to do that. Yeah.

A

So is this more just in any way, like part of run time, for the show like what runs on the blockchain, or this is just a code that you can change kind of currency.

B

All your small, you usually one time.

A

C

Of course, you can.

B

Use as a framework Beauty owner, you know some privates, the environment, some enterprise level. You moment action, alright,.

A

Let's go deeper in this public chain circle: okay, yeah.

B

One more highlights, one things is for the scan bed. He for public portion. We are doing two things. Why is shutting mmm we just released our shoddy InDesign? The shutting can support us party is supported. Networking network shuddhi, mm-hm and transaction sharing. You, noise and more important state rest states hiding you.

A

B

Support a small contract: this part is.

A

B

Another behind the edge we have a dispute, storage, storage service dispute storage service and the state showing its. This is if the layer, one mm-hmm I'm a little too currently have a one layer. Two is station station. It's it's a little bit alike. Plasma, but.

C

I have another design and.

B

Of course we have, we are working for another stage to China protocol, we're releasing next quarter. Okay, all right, yeah.

C

B

Is basic you, okay, yeah.

C

A

C

You see smart contract stage, holding mmm so let's say have cryptic eg smart quadrant yeah will the cryptic key keys? So let's say I have cryptic edges and I have some distributed exchange, so they can live on two different shards right, but keep the key key as a contract will always live on a single short or the contract itself can be yeah living on multiple shots. Yeah.

B

They actually think it is a. They have a message between the shots right, the other shots.

B

We have a message between the shots can can quickly share the message another they have a muk muk based the based verification, serve a verification protocol. They can use it every strata to to share to verify the status or right yes, so.

C

That's how they would communicate yeah communicate, but each of them would live on a single shard, yeah yeah. So like it's not like the creep, the kick is the contract itself can be shorted into multiple shots.

B

Your main content can be shared for the date. The data of the single contract, a single contract, yeah country's contracting different, show, yeah and welcome to I, saw I check. You can choose on to do the tile and the, surely you can you can you can check your paper here? Okay,.

A

Yeah actually briefly checked it out. Okay for all right, so well, actually, I'm really interested to start with this. Yes, because I mean there's a lot of kind of conversations on how to use via rafts for the for the consensus and I could really love to kind of give in dive. In into that, can you describe in a way like, let's say from a one-note perspective, what is validator node perspectives, how how's the process of pretty much coming up as a consensus in the next block happening? Okay,.

B

First, of course, have a the posts right and the Power Co can be a bit nodes or the Veritate note, and why you so costs you're supposed mechanism and are they is repetition, Sam and is they have a you, can select yeah? They have a lot of Kennedy mm-hm Kennedy. So.

A

Candidates say: hey: I want to be a yeah.

B

um To be showing and the kind of the posts can be from yourself for the community, other members contribute for you and this one, and also you involve some contributory contribution. Contribution is based on the how stable your service priority in history or just country you have a and then Europe becomes a short list may be country, is around 40 yeah 40 notes around yes, you know. Finally, this is consensus, no the group, and then they have a through the vrf process.

B

They can use random variable random functionality to select the notes from the condense may be far too routine. They can select to 10 10 notes, every won't and the person's the use of ëif, and then you can use PFT to go to a finalized final confirm the transaction yeah so which.

A

B

Are Fi using is similar, like divinity but yeah. It's Emily use the similar exemption. We have an implementation based man. Thank you, so you're using.

A

Like oh yeah, yes, they're less, like treshold signature, yeah, yeah and so for treasurer all signatures. These guys need to exchange like generate like separate set of keys for this group right, yes, yes and like, when is that done on a timeline like let's say you know, this election happened yeah and then, like the previous notes, working and then just guys are generating how's that, like? How long does it take and.

B

Cantonese this a case. Currently every notes is we have it the five seconds mm-hmm. They have a difference for four four four section handy for the book: chocolate yeah can t the best of them yeah.

B

A

You switch notes every fact or I can regenerate every five seconds. No.

B

This generates broke can be okay and that we can select notes from yes, but for the candy pool and they were a pair weights. Maybe how having 100 yeah 100 120 K is aprox and we will have a change one person's intersection, yeah, maybe I won't less than one month. I guess, two weeks: six, okay.

A

So two weeks period, yes.

B

This period, like your next.

A

Group has time to.

B

Shutting have another shutting the analysis called pvb ft and, yes, you can check your paper. Yes, maybe okay, interesting.

A

And then so, let's say we have this ten nodes right. How does everybody in the network know we just end nodes like or transactions are flooded across everybody? Yes,.

B

Countries cross everybody and they have a candy Teodoro know. Who is this wrong? They were cuts. Information from that yeah.

A

And then okay, so I mean I would love to go deeper into shutting.

B

Yeah the paper yeah I saw you guys.

A

Doing the exponential charting right so yeah like in pretty much you have Iraqi hierarchy of shards carioca, just like you have pretty much shards like have parent shards and they yeah.

B

This year's lecture book tree and the king gave you a status check and, and also you have this charting. The message between shouting can easily cuts information. Basically, the trade route and a state has sent it to do a verification accessory yeah.

A

Can you explain anymore how exactly happening, because so the main problem is charting is that if one shard is malicious right now, that is their malicious? They can tell everybody else that hey here's, a state I have all of us: have billion dollars now yeah, like trust us yeah. So how does everybody else verify that they.

B

Have a root actually to be honest, I'm, not so very involved for those for the shadow to have another research team, but they have a verified just validate process. All the messages. The message can be verified by other shut, our the shell. Does it do that? Okay, yeah? You.

A

Can check it detail, yeah cool all right, so here I mean other interesting parts that.

A

What what is the like smart contract, platformer using okay? How.

B

A

Run time, integration, okay,.

B

Actually, we are can to say this as multiple as a small country platform. Why is called nvm nvm? Is we have a joint the team car during the team group? Technic King was Neil and we build a VM together. We call them mbm, mmm but I have a different implementation.

B

Getting a VM is like the UVM, but more light and more fun. He met he and more coats, more more patient coats, we implemented school level and MDM and we have a lot of computers. Is you can choose the person right? They can person, we can convert to the code to be memo code by code yeah and they can support country supported person and go Jess Java.

B

You can use all those language to build a smart contract persons IBM yeah, another is called ontology. Watson was currently seeing our testing it wasn't, or some can support C and C++ and roast yeah. This.

C

B

But we use go to the.

C

B

Implemented and country working, another VM is coded with the structure is.

C

B

Passed on this structure have a new VM. We are doing that and finally, all those kind of VN we can do integrated in one platform as me, so you can use different McCallion get poorer. Your small contract, you different to be able to do that interests.

A

You how I'm really interested how you guys doing Python conversion into yeah.

B

Is we have a we have a program if you, you have a fringe surpassing code and as a coda, we're be compared with to convert, become an by code? Usually.

A

For bytecode, you need like types and like for yeah, optimal bytecode, yeah,.

B

We're done it by myself. We.

A

Actually, we have a person comes, yes,.

B

We can convert this so.

A

Not all of the Python will go to write, you know, like reflection, doesn't work yeah.

B

Yes, yes, we, they have a specific just some products.

A

B

Can be a subset.

A

B

Want you to keep some secret here and it's um yeah.

A

And same for JavaScript yeah.

B

Yeah yeah, we all have the comfort for the loose language and it become the back host. You.

A

B

It for that yeah.

A

That's really interesting yeah and what's the performance like from perspective, if I write the same program in Python and go, how fast word run on different.

B

Languages actually know some, because the the convert is not doing online runtime. It's actually before your deploy, a small contract. There is a converter, have been done yeah, so it's a running performance for different languages. Similar this VM is permitted by go and how otps in Nintendo's Wii testing is country in a normal environment, and the country is the ten key. Then are you having yeah 11 key? Yes, but if they have a the networking, the condition is not good. Maybe we're lower down to 7 k. 7'k is around this TPS.

C

B

C

B

C

B

What country is one minute, you're 10 note is, if you use different shots Plus together, it's not not a real GPS.

C

B

You hear seeing a single network when is the be FTP? If we not a PFT based, the contest will be more quick because it can easily know lots of communication between notes. You can yearly do to increase. For example, I only have the posts and we can really very high performance for that, but normally PFT base. That is quite good performance right now. If we can reach this one yeah yeah.

A

I think this is pretty interesting, because so this is a folder nodes and the same sub Network I'm assuming was a good connection right because if you put them kind of in different places in the world yeah just the latest. Yes,.

B

So if the network, because for consensus process yeah the networking cost is high, you see.

A

What in the cost, actually.

B

You feel costly, really they were below down to even lower more yeah. How.

A

Many round trips does your consensus take like between, so you have, let's say, ten nodes right, yeah from like Wednesday, you know elected through vrf until the block is published and broadcasted.

A

How many like communications between now it's happening a.

B

Long dry round age 24 runs for.

A

B

Four round: yeah, okay,.

A

Yeah so this involves like this is at this moment: whatever transactions they have, they put much yeah.

B

Yeah, actually is a transaction, you mean the wrong transaction is not networking transaction is high cost yeah. All the TPS exactly is so yeah nobody this one. There.

A

Because their transactions probably like what hundreds twenty bytes or something so that that's really like so.

B

The consensus- maybe not so decentralized like bitcoin or theorem, because but our strategies want to find some balance between performance and distance level. Yeah there's no magic. If you want hard.

A

B

There you have to central.

A

Service again, yeah.

B

A

Reduce the number of nodes yeah.

B

A

Talk yeah sure, yeah, alright, yeah, that's super interesting, so you also mentioned you have like dispute storage as part of your public chain. Yeah.

B

Yeah yeah, we were lunching, yes, quota to storage, of course, where you integrated the ipfs protocol as well, and meaning functionality browsers, and it's like. We can dispute a storage can leak together with publication. If you have a, for example, we do the disputed data exchange and for the public chain, the only recourse the transaction become a connector, but the real data they can. They can be stored to the this kind of option, but.

C

B

Is just optional: we also have a central storage, waster security yeah, make sure. Okay I have a crab whole mechana. Damn help you to control the data and protected data. So.

A

It's like encrypted storage, pretty much yeah.

B

Yeah yeah another summation. We have a trust collaboration platform, they have disputed data, identity, framework and dispute. They have a even if you manage your own personal data, a lot of data maybe is seeing different source in government Bank or your university. You needed to manage that the owning can control that or link to that. This is.

A

B

But some personal data is quite by yourself. We have a functionality called okay, call it a verifiable climb.

B

That means, for example, you can list, send a message: team rock chain I'm, a Porsche and technical experts, and this clan can man you by yourself and your friends. Also, can proof? Ok, ok, I agree with you, yes means those kind of date package you can stop by yourself country by yourself. You can use this entire storage. Ok, I, have a lots of the rare fiber. Cannot about me, personal information as the.

C

B

Data storage, but in protein you have some linkage address. Ok, if you want to do know my technical skills, you can be included in this link to invoke I, can I, can yeah yeah, just hash and linkage or ID address data address in proxy, but all those data managed by yourself since individuals is needed, a dispute storage as well option to manager. So.

A

So distributed storage is not sanctuary. You're saying it's not.

B

A

B

Have two storage, okay,.

A

Why you centralized.

B

Lauda base, but we add a lot of security mechanism. You can protect their data and capital functionality, peasy yeah.

A

B

Is this entire storage? Everyone know the key changes, just like a PFS can manager match that and all notes can cut benefits. For example, they can use ong talkin to buy some storage space and all the notes also have a reputation ontology. If you can be long-term and stable service provider, you can charge more and you can reward more something and the people can use different option to menu their owner data yeah.

A

So if one of those providers goes like that's something wrong, yeah there's a lose just reputation as a user, loser so part of their stake. We.

B

Have a part of stake busy.

A

B

Also, you can provide a service with outer space, but when people want to use this disputed storage, you can choose okay. This is high risk, but low price is.

C

B

But maybe it's depending yeah, we can give options to users and.

A

Pretty much all these functionalities like on one platform rate, so it's available through all of the API.

B

Yeah from user, this is, of course, in the behind, maybe several platform and many more use the user can use in one platform, one process.

A

C

So shall we talk about boolean data selection, sure.

A

C

So the vrf choses, like 10 15 people from a large set of yeah validator Scott. How is that large set of all the daters constructed.

B

You mean how to select notes. The very data notes from that is musk, as best just a mention is vif right. Whatever.

C

The question is how they, the large set of notes, is selected. Oh.

B

The selector Raj, yes, it's have a macadam use POS. Yes, they need a push. Stick piece.

C

B

One things, and now there is repetition, repetition is just a million, is Jalisco right. The node can have this go it's best. Why is this table service? They can private investor. What's amazing, history, no mistake on no shutdown or just cussing. Another is their contribution force for examples, and those have a link to a lot of the.

C

B

Have a yeah this week we can link to another macadam call it at the App Store right. The App Store is a real McKenzie is not only just a name: marketing, loccent marking, name, it's more likely a pea pistol. That knows, every the apps can link to some specific untidy. The anti D maybe belong to the knows maybe belong to the individual. That is kind of your contribution for the whole ecosystem. If the notes or individual you have a more contribution. For example, you link to turn the apps link to you.

B

Link to you means some DMC developer, you or you introduce the apps to the ontology and they pass on their transaction, and you can cause a reputation school and even your your stake is less than the other notes. You see a higher rank, so this is balance between reputation and just think.

C

Yeah so a couple questions, one is: if what would prevent me from uploading a lot of Vogel's distributed applications and having my other accounts transact with them, build up my reputation and they'll use that good.

B

Question yet way you have this question because, like a u.s. or also strong, they actually no gas V. This is everyone can think. Okay I can I can I can quickly make a lot of transaction by myself. I had a lot of cons, but so we still have a guestroom I say so.

C

It is possible, it just would be expensive.

B

Yes, if you do that, your coasts, where higher higher than your bath, your benefits.

C

Is not economically.

B

Reasonable, so you needed to do not necessary to do and.

C

So now let's say: I was selected through the vrf yeah and someone submits a transaction, so I need to submit the transaction to become to get into the pool of validators right like I need to the staking is a transaction right yeah? Why?

C

As a validator who was selected to the RF, you only have an incentive to censor your transaction, because if I don't censor your transaction, you get to the pool. You use my chance of becoming a validator in the future right. Mm-Hmm like why I as a validator, not just censor your transaction out and not yes,.

B

There was those kind of mechanism, just selection, validating notes, the notes, every wand. We were the VI for where you bugging for everyone to to select different notes to work together, but as they have already in a shortlist in this part, so they have a two stage to two cultures: to become everyone final, whether they think group yeah, yeah and you're actually difficult to control. Using this pot, yeah.

A

B

You can try to to the final group for that yeah Oh.

C

What my question is so, let's say: I was already selected through the DRA yeah right, so I'm, one of the 10 people creating a block, and so these nine others with me yeah actually, first questions so, let's say staked and so I'm in this large pool of validators, from whom, from whom the RF is selecting right, yeah they bigger this large pool, yeah, the less likely I am to be selected. Yeah your mind right. You.

B

Mean if the pool is very large, you're difficult to be be.

C

What I'm saying is that it is in my interest mmm not to make the pool larger right yeah. So if someone is submitting as taking transaction, it is in my best interest to pretend they don't see it. hmm Okay,.

B

Okay, you mean that the ProTools, your difficulty PPP, select by yourself right there's a kind of mechanism is, for example, the short list right. There were God benefits from, for example, the gas fee. We are returned to the knows even less wrong. You are not showing for the validation and most you're, not distracted for the validating. Of course you can do some signature and some things, but you are not seeing the final reading notes. You also can cut reward from gas, become, maybe your standby. You are ready for that.

B

He also causes a benefit for that. So this is not owning force. You have a balance between that yeah.

C

B

C

Do you like rent the models? Is it is it the case that might benefit from including someone is strictly bigger than the benefit of not including them.

B

You mean out him to you, including you increase.

C

Something so is it the case that for me, and you validator chosen by the DRF yeah, it is more beneficial to include, is taking transaction than to ignore the state.

B

Yes, we're a little bit higher, but not means otherwise. Nautical square is.

C

B

C

C

When when people are validating so, let's say, I was chosen by the vrf. What will be what will be considered, in which case will it be slashed? So, if I do double double signing, that's a slash about behavior, right, yeah yeah. What, if I'm just applying? Do you slap for being a flame.

B

We have some more. Each process is like the Fishman or ending protocol is, if you do this kind of this kind of a double sign. Just the things. Your way impaired, your stake as well. Yes, because where's your evidence and your States will be PPP chocolate and a for the process. Of course, you find some type of signed transaction.

B

This one will be skipped. There were not speak, finalized well kick off another one. Maybe yes,.

C

Doubles hand, it makes sense, let's say no double signing I'm, just completely applying yeah, so I was chosen with a vrf. It's my turn to be a validator and I'm completely apply yeah. Will it be slashed for being a flame.

B

hmm Country notes, we have a just a monitor for that, but.

C

Not automatically.

B

The wrong time to do yeah, yeah.

A

So you don't update the reputation if somebody's are fine. Today you mean you know right now, if let's say one of the validators who was supposed to be valide yeah.

B

A

Show up yeah right: did you update their reputation.

B

Yes, there will be they do it do some things. This reputation also included just you mentioned. You do some review on things the operational bit down, but they do some stable things and the rotation will be higher. So this is reputation where you have on to school, decided. Yes, I have a formula to calculate that yeah yeah.

A

Well, it's a reputation like updated every block, pretty much or almost.

B

Every book I was.

A

Almost liable for for just for validator straight or for everybody actually.

B

For this can be calculated for every ant, ID anti D there can be a note. Yeah also can be an individual yeah.

A

But if you saying it gets updated every one or two blocks, yeah.

B

Then we updates, but the things is the repetition. Moscow is candle of logic, the logic, a needn't, be calculation every time and is thought through the proxy Brock can have the data. We can do that and once you want to know which I this notation, you can repair.

A

B

Query the notice and the calculation may be off channel all this way, yeah so.

A

Like a node, wouldn't do this calculation probe your.

B

Some notes do some not don't do some. No, today, okay, I private, some reputation, query service. You can.

C

B

And is a way to the logic calculation in their nose, probably service to others, but this not must have to do yeah. That's it, but.

A

You do need to do it when you do in selection of the validators that.

B

Need to do because, but that's a yes won t so miss just a minute, maybe two week. What we have so is to do a calculation and Senator and other other to every two weeks. Other notes, also a circular corporation, is correct or not.

A

B

A finalized selection for that yeah so.

A

So you pretty much, you have a service that gives the answer, but then everybody else can like fishermen inject.

B

Yeah specially check because you're not you're, got people just results calculated by yourself. We.

A

B

Use the same, your data calculator.

A

B

The pass across the calculator again, everyone can check, and even other people not eating that just an individual, our committee member, they also can do the concrete by myself. Okay, this one is wrong. Who is not so higher yeah.

A

And they can figure out yeah and we'll just cert like is their way just like to punish pretty much the service. That's provided yeah the wrong data yeah.

B

Yeah, if we're on data and is a we can figure it out and they have a proven evidence. They are got some final. How.

A

Does that pretty much dispute will work.

B

You you mean yeah.

A

So, let's say the service, you say it posted here: here's the list right off of the pre-selected nose right, yeah and, like let's say, a signature of the service mm-hmm. Now a like I'm, just an individual, you know: I calculated it I'm, saying hey! This is different. Mm-Hmm right, so I have my different list yeah. So how does this dispute will work? All.

B

Right, you know you mean if they have a different, it.

A

B

Program formula or the combination, ways he's open and all the data input data is interaction. They have a consensus confirmed we can everyone can use the formula easily to to calculation. The result, even our efficient team, also an open and is more likely a community-based activity. If from someone one and people are in the confirm, easily calculation again, yes, yeah.

A

Yeah so I understand that they can do calculation, but how house like, after that say community confirm this was wrong. How do like? Do you send the transaction saying this is wrong? Who signs that like who update, who punishes yes.

B

That we have a the country wherever off chain process, I, say of jr.

A

B

Do that but we're on us? Finally, but it is selection where appears transaction to the all the currently comes of notes. People know, okay, they were verified.

A

So let's say: okay: this was wrong. Everybody agreed yeah.

B

Yeah everybody people need.

A

To exchange something, is there no tend to like final or how do you in put it back into blockchain, yeah,.

B

Countries if the formula or some calculation approach, speed up great people, maybe upgrade to the notes, an otherwise currently cousin knows where they will be Congress to the list and double-check confirm that they will have a consensus model for this one, so once they get there for a transaction have a constants model for the new section for that. But of course you still can challenge you for that, and but that way country use of chain process to do that. Yeah.

B

Okay, it's more like country, yes van foundation, will be the proposal and okay who is wrong.

A

B

And knows anyone can be votes and most yes, financial county is more power. Is yourself chan, house.

A

This happened before have.

B

Because all the data in broke chain in.

A

B

Broke change this easy these.

A

Two check well, there's enough lag between people.

B

B

You everyone involve either where chocolate, yeah yeah.

A

Yeah, because you know I mean pretty much, the easiest path to double spend is like fixes. Put it myself here, create a blog. It's.

B

Quite a challenge, actually, this broke changing those kind of decentralized governance process cannot do everything just control by technology. You.

A

B

Involve some incentive, and even from some sometime cases of chain process,.

A

Cool yeah, so one more thing I wanted to discuss. Who was you mentioned that you have pretty much it's it's a web Michael, you have a public chain and you have I'll call them private to it. Yeah and you have right now at least a way to exchange assets, but you also want to add right, yeah data and you have want to have like transactions at yeah sure yeah. So how does this work right now and how you envision it working country.

B

You can build your your Knesset, prochain is like Venice portion network and use. Ontology framework you mentioned is the several things we can modernized when you build your own, a public apology, moralize this means for consensus, more consensus process. You can use different consensus, no process. For that. Another is storage.

B

You can use different database, for example country. We are using never DB or stock TP yeah.

A

B

Can use different, choose different DB for their storage as well, and they can build their own confidence, carbonates model, communists, carbonates, water also included. Sorry included a talk and design if.

A

B

And talk and design and mechanism you can you can do that and a.

A

B

Or owner finished version and the we have a protocol to exchange assessing your rock chair and told you, for example, when G you can also can be use the protocol to using different sub functions. So.

A

How does protocol work? Because, let's say you know I say: hey I, moved Ong here and then.

B

I made more the first initiation protocol. Is it's a lot of details. The best thing is based on the hot rock, the hot dog. You have a put stake in the main net yonder for Ong, and you can issue another token on your mapping to Ong and in the metro, energy and you a little bit of like the state's China, but the.

A

Bridge pretty much yeah, it's kind of like you walk here or ng yeah, and your issue yeah.

B

Yeah- and this is one way another way is hostile, but so this is slowly harsh rockers. We can do okay, they can transfer this one changed. Okay, this one want to change energy. They have a harsh look protocol, they're, not the issue and you're talking. They can't do actually exchange it Ong or to their owner talking for examples on the BBC BCG. This way and use the hot shock to do that, but this product is slow, one mm-hm. This is high-speed yeah.

B

It's constantly. We are using the two protocols and for anyway, we are country where design other more protocols change the data, even just to mention the state by state collaboration yeah. So.

A

Even right now, let's say just because this is like operated by me right. Yes, I can just go start it up yeah, you know my consensus is Ilya, says yeah yeah and like in one and G, and then I wanna, pretty much like public book shall not allow me to exit this more.

C

A

What about if it's like, let's say it's, some type of facet that is native by was my blockchain right. So let's say I made a thing: I created, cryptic ETS on it right when it's on contract and now created him here right like there's, nothing, that's locked here, so there's nothing to validate yeah. Well, how does how would this work.

B

You mean you just issue your owner, talking yeah.

A

So is you my own, let's say a nifty right yeah? How does this blockchain will validate some properties of it? So, like let's say the decks here right, like I, want to list they're.

B

Not the NFT is just the pass on your reputation. You usually actually.

A

B

A stake for the oMG: it's depend on, your user is trustee. Oh you're, talking not.

C

B

Another things is, of course, we have a detects. You can need to check. Another is the transaction. Currently they can share the validator group. Some rare data can supports multiple Bactria. They also can okay, your your leisure, also in some data process as well, and some some transaction or locked records they also can can log to the public chain pure entity and I, see like.

A

More like yeah yeah.

B

You're, like my.

A

B

Is a little bit of difference yeah, but the basic idea will be similar. I see, yeah.

A

And then, but like the party plasma right is that you actually start from here and then you check out yeah.

B

We actually can create.

A

B

Want to be more flexible, don't want to control too closely. Yes to do that, because we have another important identities. All those account based or address based is best of the untidy very important. We want to control more account, not for the SS. Actually, no, we want to okay, you can open for your. You can issue your own assess for the support, but.

C

B

Account always person untidy yeah. You can check together yeah, so.

A

On the other, like you know, on the storage level, how do you enforce that like a count ID here and account ID here, like it's, the same space.

B

You know you mean storage, yeah tape, that's right, yeah.

A

So, let's say I mean: there's a storage here, right yeah, which is like I'm, not sure I can tidy like I want. Ids is not a public here. It is it's a new.

B

Me untidy, yeah untidy is probably it's a public key, not publicly not.

A

B

Haven't have some convoys yeah yeah.

A

So this is a some type of string and then I have storage here as well as my a chain. You said you pretty much want to control that here, I mean.

B

This is just the one to do. Do a link is kind of a mapping. For example, we have anti D yeah. That is not not a public key is for them some único, aidid, yeah and, and you can link different count. One count, maybe is Ont orange account right another. Maybe your NFT account I feel they working mapping together, but for the Ont. This is sincere. Our sub here when.

A

B

Account automatically mapping together justice. Yes, sir, let's mean avenging the future. You can add. Okay, my bank account my facebook account. You can prove. Okay, all those things is beyond to me, but the conscience by yourself, people don't know who leaked who, but you can prove. Okay, all those accountable to me, I can send, in my evidence to you, use some ID untidy to manage your all those kind of link, yeah.

A

And this is done so like there's one key or set of keys attached to this. You.

B

Can have a multiple case under, for example, you have a you, have a untidy in one, it's all linked to your all different kind of digital assets. Yet another key is bank account, but also you can merge, merge.

A

Yeah, for example,.

B

You to bank to apply some financial service. We can okay, you, you you're SS, okay, I,.

C

B

As a bitcoin Ahava assessing bank I also have my degree in university, I was hosted. Link to my untidy. I can prove all those things is beyond so improving them. This is, for example, you can link to a Bitcoin or another programmer traitor right, yeah traitor. Currently, you can link your Twitter account to the white help of your Twitter's.

B

You can issue a Twitter Pizza from my untidy, a link with a signature in your Twitter account and you put it account linked to their people to verify can easily okay, yes, Twitter have your tweeted and with your untidy with your signature, okay, I, agree: okay, you! You are the owner full, yes, account! Ok, yes, this way, the other way so I got Bitcoin. You can use the private key to sign some sign. You want Heidi and her to evidence to approach in everyone hanging. Well, ok! This is a contribution to you.

B

They can use public key addressability.

A

Change: yeah yeah. You.

B

A

All the things, and so you said but like what's the relationship between on tidy and actual like cryptographic keys it.

B

A

Or one-to-many one-to-many.

B

A

B

Untidy is more like a penis level. It's.

A

Like an account, it's.

B

Like no difference yes, SSSs, just digitize SSSs one candle ID address.

A

Is there any other parts yeah.

B

Just want to highlights, we have a lot of economic mechanism, a design yeah. Why is you talking? You're talking is quite important. I want to check out request one why we think public key and token mechanism design McCarran is quite important, because country for public watching people almost use focus on utility token. You use guests to use transaction fee, but it wasn't so why, when you thought do talking o and key and OMG this one is guest right, but I want she is for for for comments or those things.

B

The token designs me: okay, we can use Ong for the utility to use that, but the people want to support you the whole. Didn't he what a benefits they can get. For example, the English hi pick, the serum have a million dollars one day, the transaction fee, but all faces benefit for many right things: yeah yeah, not not other holders. Actually, the holder is supporting or founding you something the whole you talk, and not only to involve you or use your something, also kind of benefits.

B

So we are design that is all the gas we used. Bp be hosting the ontology platform ontology platform. We are returned to the ont holders, but one thing we add is the holder need to involve the comments process. They need to put a stakeholder, do some contribution for that they were caught rate them and there will never be just apply, will be fixed of.

A

B

Just use us or assume we have a 5%. Yes,.

A

B

Every year they will be fixed, but Ong will be also this fixed number, but they can be recycle. The circling use used.

C

B

To return to that, that means! So if you have more and more application and transaction every day, you work out more and more Ong, again again and again, maybe as the servicing, that means they can. We can keep okay, we don't need to increase the supply to incentives of the people because they were, they were impacted. The investor before you hold it I to you, okay, you have more supplying and you impacted the price. It's not of not fair, we fixed amount, and this can be circling and a time and time alright.

B

So that is designed for that. So.

A

Yeah, well, it's actually maybe a little bit discusses because so you have pretty much few different roles right. You have people who stake mm-hmm and who actually run nodes because they were selected and.

C

A

And then you have just holders so the state thus takers take int right, Cinco, &, Ken, yeah yeah, so the stake when T they run nodes. So when you run no, then you produce a block right. You get the reward in or in tears. Yeah.

B

So how do not need not go to reward for volunteer? They got to reward for Ong yum-yum Iran, notarize, yeah.

A

B

Got to reward for moments because all the transit small contract transaction is just your.

A

B

Omg we are back to a poor home, the reward to the stake and holder and runny nose. They got reward for from ONC yeah, okay,.

A

So they receive when G, yeah and.

C

And it automatically.

A

Gets sold right which mean you just said it's recycled, so it gets sold pretty much to get orion t-I out of it. How does it get recycled? There's.

B

Think amis, for example, is they have a one PDN yeah Angie yeah then won't be used. There were not to be destroyed, they will be retained, who's a they can use. It's.

A

Not destroyed it, you can sold it like Irish, let's say I'm, one of the note runners I received it. It's not destroyed it's mine, yeah. How is get recycled now you.

B

Can sauce to your cage? Okay,.

A

B

A

Second sold yeah on the secondary market, yeah.

B

Yeah sunk in your market, oh you can OTC directi to send it to others yeah, but you're saying it.

C

Gets recycled automatically, right so, let's say: I'm issuing a transaction yeah and I'm paying 100; oh em, gee, yeah, here's, the validator, note yeah and your and your an int holder, I'm Owen. Today, okay, so I'm running a transaction, here's a validator! He staked yeah your own key holder, yeah I'm, paying 100 mg yeah, who gives the 120 Hugh yeah.

B

He do the auntie hope you hit. Do the verity notes. They also put a stake abhi here. If you only owe auntie holder result evolving consensus process, governance process- you are not a god benefit, otherwise become security right. Yes, it's not so great. You haven't, do a contribution for that, but a currently currently that we also for the Ignatia the first first page of so and ong right. They.

C

B

A dispute mechanism to send out and as they can do the recycling again again there's a dispute. Yes for wendy holder, everyone, no matter, you're you're joining the kinds of snowed or not your work, god when G released for the first nation, yeah.

A

B

If you have a tensor tanky and you work out for Ong every day right now, they will learn to twenty years. But like.

C

Let's say: let's say that he's taking validator mm-hm I, usually the transaction and I spent one hundred, oh em gee, and let's say he doesn't want to sell it. He wants to keep it. Do you spend.

B

It you know, get.

C

Your cycles right.

B

Yeah they have enough supply for this every day. Yeah gig, nature in nature have a 1 billion ont yeah, yes, fixed price and a 1 billion Ong. The first half 1 billion will release every day, 20 whole directions so every day have a supply coming. You can hold her. You can hold its.

A

Own excellent yeah, but let's say I mean at the end people people just hold your Ong and don't sell right because zoom oblique, if it's a fixed price, no energy price will go up. Maybe maybe.

B

But every day have a new supplier come.

A

Up but this is like on only for a fixed time, yeah.

B

But every day new some are coming and if okay, everyone hold on G yeah, but every day still have a release. Every day you have a new orange for how long it's 20 years will release 1 billion total. You released yeah.

A

Yes, so in 20 years, presumably you have people like yeah.

B

C

Depends yeah, but.

B

C

Was a different from etherium inflating 5% every year, you're also effectively inflating the.

B

Means is, if you are actually most for the investment part you'll normally new. Are you master one T Ong is your taste talking? Let's pause, Ong is fixed and.

C

That is distributed on day, one yeah.

B

You're not owning you hold it. Oh and he not owning get the 1 billion release for a moment, see everything you can do nothing go to the release every day and if ontology, you consistent be very large average has a lot of transaction every day. The used Ong will return to you if we were joining, but one thing you needed to do is joining consensus process. But what is it called.

C

To be used like when I use my 20 I as a transaction here use my Ong, it is not really used. It goes to the stake right. Yeah.

B

The ghost who's a stake, the aza they be using the English in the system and it written to a poor. Does it return to the.

C

A

Would he get like? Why would I sell if my nose, the validators I'll, just keep it for now, because it's fresh will not go down said only will go up, presumably yeah.

B

Yes, for example, country, you have a note where denotes process and it was a guest free coming, especially coming one guess. Won't you be used right. The word automatically send it to the order where there's no all the stake.

A

Note so I'm not receiving one and I'm receiving like once.

B

Or Jake they have, for example, one and they have a kind of disputed mechanism for.

A

B

Whole takes takes notes; they were have a formula yeah through to dispute. Okay,.

A

For everybody, in the worst rate or.

B

Even the can, not only for you, the one we're happy, maybe you've got a little pond today, the one he.

A

B

Goes to the pond today, the one, but maybe, if he's ranked higher than you there were a period of par today door. So everyone shares a one.

C

Omg but what's the benefit of of signing works at all signing Brooks, because if I'm signing a block but I'm getting as much, she worked as everybody else who was not selected by the area? Why would they bother.

B

For example, you you, you put in a stick: you'll be the candidate put kind of Candida. Put can be, no limitation can be silenced right. Yes, they also cook workers benefits right, but let's say I got.

C

Into the candidate pool yeah, and then they are ref selected yeah. What is my motivation to actually show up online and create blocks? Why would I not just wait account.

B

Great great question for Canada Pook, maybe Soren sounds candy boots busier. They were cut 50% case right. Another Pro is be selected, is we kind of maybe mean, for example, countries 50? They were also get another five. If you you in this pool, you are cut more so, okay, okay, you want to stick more and build a high reputation and or in track to your commute. Remember vote for me, I'm, enjoying it yes sourcing, but that is flexible. Almost.

A

The best one is like if you're and then from here right for every block, mhm you said ten is selected right yeah, so here there's no difference right. You are I, don't if you produce the block or you look so pretty much like it's efficient to optimize for not being selected yeah. You can.

B

If you're being select yes, what you say if you've been a top 250, yes, you can go to more benefits, but you also have a higher cost. You need a fine balance. For example, you need to speak more and learn.

A

The clerk's taking is not the cost, cost is actually running hardware just.

B

Think also costs of steak have a lock to your be only crate here. Right is one thing. Another thing says you need a pity repetition. You need to run a note, the very stable and without a mistake, or without shutting, and also things, even you, let a community member but voting for you also cost you can either maintain your community and and involve more the app etc. So you find a balance, got benefits, it's kind of. So this is why the mechanism design economic mechanic is so important.

B

We don't actually before I'm a ETH holder but see the price is not about the ecosystem. For if there's some days they have a million dollars transaction fee in ETH all holders sure to get the benefit, but snow is this is let's a stranger things yeah, and what I don't like I, like the fixed price on a fixed amount speakers supply I, don't think every year have 5% is not make sense, who have power to generate another 5%, and also it's not fair for the the earlier investor.

B

I hold it Hawking every year, us if yet every year, five percent supply coming. It's not fair to me, yeah.

A

Well, the point should be that people are mining right like if, if you're, just holding and not participating, I mean it's the same. Like you're just saying, if.

B

The hole didn't participate, yeah right, while you're holding not to participate, you're owning cots initial release. There were not got other benefits.

A

B

The one things is why we think it's an sighs away. The participating participation is very easy. Even you're, not what's wrong knows you can selection, knows and I vote for you. I can share profits for you, I even have it only have a 1000 antique I can vote. I can put my steak to you and you do the wrong running knows you're got benefits, sure to me this is increasing kids. So indeed,.

A

If we have the same reputation, for example or sorry, we have the same steak but different reputation. Is this like split non equally right so having higher reputation when.

B

You have a higher rank you when you, when your disputes, yeah.

A

B

Gas higher rank, we got more yeah.

C

Okay, so 10 people is who signs the book right. Yeah everyone is Terry's is.

B

C

And and BFT is run among 10 people yeah, but isn't the probability of more than three people being malicious among 10 is pretty high, no matter.

B

Since this random select the 50 is, the nose is be select by their stake by the reputation if they want to do run things, the coaster is very high and it's difficult, sometimes, yes, and also once if you have the option Fishman mechanism, you also your stake, we're being paired all the to the 15 there, at least this millions or when TPP sticks right. If they do some single one and they may be impacted their own, a benefits as well.

C

B

And reputation, yeah.

A

They're pretty likely for to reputation.

B

Means some notes link a lot of the apps to that they also have benefits for them. So.

C

Those 50 will not change very often right, like.

B

C

The top 10 whales are always going to be in top.

B

Yeah, but still have a change, not how much change but some, for example, the last 10 will be changing quickly, maybe week, every two lately exactly but.

C

Then don't like, isn't there is that so those 50 people you only a large percentage of them will know each other that that's sort of expected right, like rich people in the same ecosystem, they happen to know each other yeah like they can they do some weird monopoly stuff like trying to hold on on yeah.

B

I understand those we have a country we use. The repetition, also included a really QC who is back-end as adults. You need people know, for example, the secure capital or the horizontal team or some team. You need to show your background. We were not seeing our website as well people, yes, because you can how you people, okay, okay, those people is, is work together or try to manipulate or something yes, all the KYC will be open and there's a community.

B

A lot is noticed by the community voting people: okay, I, don't trust you I can vote again. Yeah.

A

So if those people decide to like- let's say you know, they agree on authorize that was fan their sensor. Somebody like it's only the foundation that can actually like yep.

B

Conjugate foundation can do some like monitor or some regulator to do it. Yes,.

A

B

It can pry yep community can private deserves evident.

A

B

That's possible, that's why we we involved a reputation. Let's the information back and the information more and more open everyone can monitors. I, don't know, don't know that yeah, but.

C

It isn't it an unnecessary complication. Why not run be here on 50 people, every single thing.

B

Maybe why is performances? Consideration is 50 years. 15 notes. Pft will be very slow, it's definitely very slow. It's so wait. We try to find some parents for that, but.

C

Like, if use to me the tender Myint, even if you don't use any gossip network, you even if they just communicate to each other directly, it's 50/50 peers right on tandem in this to two round-trips effectively like that should be 0.6 seconds.

B

Turn which is not purely PFT they cut. Some runt is if we want to finish the whole fully. The the PF PFT process, which right he is 50, will be a little bit slow young country. So we want to use vrf to select and fund balance.

C

Why do you think tender milk is not BFG, not.

B

Sleepy ft new means is there's a 50 period. She is more hired the net. Well,.

C

I'm saying good tender mint algorithm tender meat. Is it EFT, algorithm yeah two.

A

B

Children well technique.

C

With pbft also just takes two round trips, unless yeah.

B

Yeah yeah change, yeah and.

C

Hopefully, would kick your way of you 50.

B

Involve this country pieces, we have a lot of frequency, the use case, but if we'd run to a see so we, for example, they they needed some higher frequency to do that, and we want to keep select 10 and it keeps more usually P supports more, no see you next phase, how often they produce blocks today.

B

It's it's flag. Sport sprites for means, for example, even no ending transaction. There may be 5 seconds. The processing coming every second region generally yeah.

A

So you can do. Instead, you have four or five round trips, no.

B

They mean the it Brock generation. Tea time is even know. Any transaction during a spirit is five. Second approach generation. If you some transaction coming Wow to second, its is generation. Yes, sorry.

C

Thing is just not producing lots of transactions. You delaying blocks of these no transactions, yes, yeah yeah,.

B

So it's dynamically it.

C

Sounds to me like pbft among 50 people, so definitely finish on two seconds.

B

Yes possible: this is performance in not that purity is is being set by you. Not, of course not limited by the performance not mean smoke. Performance cannot erase. Actually, you can do every day and you can generate broke chain or broadcast. Well, yes, I saw first.

C

B

Want to keep a period so.

A

If you're generating every second, that would be by the same people right they're, not switching every second, not.

B

Switch every second but sitting in some period profiles like countries, they were to add one another round. Yeah.

C

B

Every time it ship may be several wronged and misdirect yeah, so.

A

So there's 50 people all of them pretty much drive via RAF and then they need to communicate to each other right yeah to select the ten like. Whoever has the highest select.

B

Is the processes dots the unit director, they needed committee each other, but in use vif? Let the communication you use around. This is a thing problems. It's not so complex and.

A

Yeah yeah: it's what you do to that. Yeah.

B

Yeah now that we have a paper for the VRT, if you're interesting, you can check that as well. Yeah, okay, yeah.

A

B

To be honest, I'd and not know all details about it, because we have a big team busy I'm trying my best to part to share my understanding. Maybe have some neighbor some mistake. Maybe you can check the paper and it gave us more secure, seeing and and recommendation sure yeah I think yeah viewers as well yeah, the.

A

Beste to deny.

B

Everything yeah, okay, thank you.