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A
All
right
good
afternoon,
everyone
I'll
go
ahead
and
let
the
committee
secretary
know
she
can
begin
her
recording.
A
D
A
Here
there
are
five.
A
Five
members
present
just
a
quick
reminder:
please
be
courteous
and
respectful
with
others
during
the
meeting.
Even
if
you
disagree
with
another
person's
position,
a
general
reminder
for
all
of
us
for
those
participating
on
zoom,
please
be
sure
to
meet
your
microphone
when
you're,
not
speaking
for
the
general
public.
The
building
is
still
closed.
A
We
have
multiple
ways
to
engage
with
us.
Please
take
a
look
at
our
website
for
the
opinion
poll
to
submit
written
testimony.
You
can
find
that
email
address
on
the
agenda.
If
you
have
any
questions
on
how
to
participate,
you
can
email.
Our
committee
manager,
whose
email
address
is
also
on
the
agenda
all
right.
H
H
We
did
see
a
very
large
drop
in
the
state
of
nevada
and
many
individuals
directly
attributed
that
directly
to
the
ability
of
them
to
get
to
individuals
so
fast.
There
seems
to
be
at
least
according
to
law
enforcement
and
discussions
that,
if
you
are
having
a
few
too
many
beverages-
and
you
realize
that
you
should
not
be
driving
you'll,
try
to
call
somebody
and
if
they
don't
show
up
in
15
to
20
minutes
well,
you're,
pretty
sure
you're
sober
now,
so
you
might
as
well
drive
home
and
sadly,
that's
what
people
did.
H
Unfortunately,
when
this
language
was
crafted
way
back
when
we
stuck
in
what
seemed
very
appropriate
that
surge
pricing
should
not
be
allowed
when
a
state
is
under
a
statewide
emergency,
we
never
had
any
concept
that
a
statewide
emergency
could
last
as
long
as
the
pandemic
has
so
far
or
could.
Last
and
in
that
respect,
the
translation
network
companies
have
seen
a
situation
that,
without
the
increased
economic
incentive
to
drivers
to
be
able
to
again
receive
more
funds.
You
know
when
the
need
existed.
H
We've
seen
a
very
large
drop
in
the
number
of
drivers
that
are
out
there
and
as
an
example,
the
average
wait
time.
I'm
now
told
at
the
airport
in
las
vegas
is
45
minutes.
I've
had
several
individuals
due
to
the
fact
I
was
so
involved
with
the
legislation.
A
long
time
ago,
tell
me
about
their
cancelled,
rides
down
the
las
vegas
area
and
how
they
then
couldn't
make
their
flight
and
to
me
that
seemed
problematic
to
say
the
least
and
again
with
the
search
pricing.
H
People
will
be
more
willing
to
pay
it
in
my
opinion,
because
they
need
the
rides
and
if
you
look
at
the
app,
if
you
happen
to
be
down
in
las
vegas
area
on
a
weekend
night,
I've
had
friends
that
looked
at
it.
Two
three
o'clock
in
the
morning
that
sent
me
screenshots,
there's
only
two
or
three
cars
out
there.
H
With
that
being
said,
chair,
we
are
trying
to
work
off
of
a
proposed
amendment
that
was
sent
over.
Hopefully
everyone
has
it.
If
not,
I
apologize
for
not
getting
it
to
you
sooner.
To
be
honest
after
the
second
coveted
shot,
I'm
unfortunately
reliving
some
of
my
symptoms
from
having
cobalt
back
in
november,
not
very
much
fun
I'll.
Give
you
that
that
being
said,
the
amendment
tries
to
address
an
issue
that
the
organizations
are
indicating
the
tnc's,
that
they
kind
of
need
consistency
between
states
which
to
me,
makes
logical
sense.
H
I
represent
lake
tahoe
and
this
would
potentially
cause
them
problems
when
they're
in
nevada,
and
then
they
drive
in
to
california
to
drop
off
an
individual
or
vice
versa.
It
starts
to
get
into
if
we
don't
have
similar
laws
on
the
book.
It
creates
them
a
management
nightmare.
So,
in
that
respect,
that's
what
the
amendment
is
trying
to
address
compared
to
the
original
bill.
With
your
indulgence,
chair
harris,
it
might
be
wiser
to
allow
piper
overstreet
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
this
matter
before
we
get
into
questions
or
if
you
wish
chair.
I
I
I'd
also
like
to
note
that
I
do
have
tabitha
chao
from
the
uber
operations
team
on
standby
to
help
answer
any
technical
questions
that
may
come
up
well
I'll
start
by
saying
that
we
absolutely
understand
the
intent
of
nrs
706,
a
dot,
170
and,
of
course,
the
corresponding
regulation,
which
is
to
prevent
extreme
price
variability
during
local
emergency
situations
when
a
major
local
emergency
occurs.
I
The
goal
of
sb279
is
to
crystallize
the
existing
law
and
prevent
an
unintended
consequence
like
the
one
that
we're
seeing
riders
and
drivers
experiencing
right
now,
as
our
state
is
safe,
safely,
losing
restrictions
and
increasing
access
to
the
vaccines.
We're
seeing
a
dramatic
increase
in
demand.
I
This
bill
will
allow
tnc's
to
adjust
supply
to
meet
that
demand
so
that
visitors
have
the
same,
safe,
seamless
and
enjoyable
experience
that
they
have
become
accustomed
to,
and
I
can
tell
you
that
currently
las
vegas
has
the
worst
reliability
in
the
country,
we're
hearing
from
frustrated
drivers
who
are
curious
as
to
why
they
aren't
seeing
surge
pricing
with
increased
demand.
We
have
also
received
multiple
inbound
communication
from
local
jurisdictions
and
airport
personnel
and
senator
selameyer
just
alluded
to.
I
Lastly,
we've
seen
reports
of
writers
having
to
choose
between
unsafe
options
such
as
driving
under
the
influence
or
accepting
rights
from
strangers
who
aren't
with
any
regulated
transportation
entity.
There
was
a
story
about
this
on
on
fox
5
news
actually
and
I'm
testifying
in
support
of
this
bill.
I
What's
your
proposed
amendment
as
senator
meyer
just
proposed,
and
I
respectfully
request
that
you
consider
passing
sb
279
and
I
want
to
say
thank
you
again
to
senator
sotomayor
for
bringing
this
bill
forward
and
thank
you
to
the
committee
for
your
time
today
and
with
that
stand
ready
for
any
questions.
A
Okay,
senator
silamar,
if
it's
okay,
I'll
open
it
up,
if
it's
okay
with
the
opening
up
to
questions
from
the
committee
at
this
point,
are
there
any
questions
from
members
of
the
committee.
A
F
Pickard,
thank
you,
madam
chair,
didn't
want
to
disappoint.
I,
and
this
has
to
do
with
the
amendment
itself.
It's
the
change
to
sub
six
rather
than
the
authority
may
adopt
regulations.
It
actually
sets
forth
the
what
the
limitation
is.
That's
a
little
unusual
in
that
we
don't.
We
normally
try
to
allow
the
the
the,
in
this
case,
the
authority
to
adopt
or
possibly
alter
or
fine-tune
regulations
on
a
more
frequent
basis
than
every
every
other
year,
as
we
do
in
the
legislature.
H
H
We
allow
our
constituents
and
the
visitors
that
are
in
the
state
the
opportunity
to
utilize
the
tnc's,
especially
out
in
the
more
rural
aspects
of
the
state
of
nevada,
it's
more
about
giving
people
an
option
of
how
to
travel,
whereas
in
your
region
a
lot
more
times,
it's
more
about
people
that
are
traveling
to
our
state,
for
the
experience
and
they're
used
to
the
transportation
network,
experience
and
they're
not
being
able
well
they're
having
a
really
bad
one,
as
you
just
found
out
being
the
worst
in
the
nation.
That
is
my
explanation
for
that.
H
Miss
overstreet,
if
you
could
add
on
to
that
I'd,
be
appreciative
if
allowed
cheer.
Sorry.
I
Chair
harris
through
you,
too
senator
pickard.
Yes,
that's
correct!
You
can
go
directly
to
silver
street
okay.
I
appreciate
it.
Thank
you
senator
pickard.
Yes,
that's
correct
again,
this
is
about
consistency,
and
I
think
that
what
we're
seeing,
especially
because
of
the
timing,
then
we
have
the
opportunity
to
do
this
as
we're
seeing
traffic
pick
up.
This
would
be
the
best
route
to
not
only
create
consistency
but
as
to
to
your
point
not
have
to
come
back
in
the
future
and
readdress.
What's
an
existing
law.
F
All
right,
thank
you
I
just
to
me
this
was
unusual,
but
yeah.
If
the
authority
hasn't
developed
the
regulations
yet,
then
we
got
to
start
somewhere.
So,
okay,
that
makes
sense.
Thank
you
very
much.
J
Thank
you,
chair
harris.
This
question
might
be
for
this
overstreet,
if
possible
it
when
you
talk
about
having
some
sort
of
uniformity
across
the
states.
Is,
is
this
pricing
scenario
under
during
an
emergency
and
in
this
language
right
here
for
duration,
and
things
like
that
is
this?
Is
this
exactly
the
same
as
we'd
see
in
some
of
our
neighboring
states?.
I
So
I
know
that
there's
similar
language
in
pennsylvania,
d.c,
new
york,
neighboring
states,
there's
different
states,
handle
it
differently,
but
the
goal
here
is-
and
I
I
forgot
to
add
this
so-
and
this
is
this-
may
get
well
beyond
my
liberal
arts
understanding.
So
I
may
have
the
tech
person
jump
in
here
if
I,
if
I
mess
this
up,
but
because
of
the
way
that
the
software
itself
works
and
you
take
into
account
time
distance
variability
that
it
allows
for
the
system
to
work
and
make
sure
it's
in
compliance.
H
Senator
brooks
vice
chair
brooks
this
is
senator
settlemyre.
The
explanation
I
also
received
is
with
the
concept
of
the
original
build,
even
if
it
passed
it
would
not
be
able
to
implement
it
because
of
the
inconsistency
within
the
app
within
the
platform,
and
that
would
be
very
problematic.
So
I
wanted
to
try
to
do
something
that
actually
would
have
an
effect,
and
that's
where
the
amendment
came
about.
If
the
technical
person
is
here
from
uber,
they
maybe
will
have
a
much
better
explanation
that
might
be
simpler
to
understand
than
my
ramblings.
A
Miss
chow
go
ahead,
but
please
re
state
your
name
for
the
record.
As
you
answer
the
question.
E
E
The
high
level
overview,
it's
really
just
to
balance,
supply
and
demand,
but
the
pricing
is
actually
decoupled
between
riders
and
drivers,
so
I
believe
the
way
it
was
previously
drafted
it.
It
stated
that
anything
additional
that
riders
paid
would
need
to
go
directly
to
drivers
and
the
way
that
our
surge
works
is
there's
not
a
one
for
one
necessarily.
So
it's
not
necessarily
what
exactly
the
rider
pays
goes
directly
to
drivers.
E
This
is
a
system
that
has
been
in
place
for
a
few
years
now
and
is
actually
something
based
on
driver
preference
and
feedback.
It
allows
drivers
to
have
a
more
reliable
view
of
surge.
So
if
they
drive
into
an
area
that
has
been
deemed
busy
and
is
surging,
they
are
guaranteed
to
get
that
surge
amount.
Even
if
the
market
rebalances
and
a
rider
doesn't
pay
search,
they're
still
guaranteed
that
amount.
So
just
the
way
our
system
works
on
the
back
end,
the
intent
is
the
same,
I
believe
in
the
and
the
two
versions.
E
However,
this
would
allow
us
to
technically
comply
as
written.
J
Thank
you,
and,
and
so
when
we
talk
about
it,
it
conforming
with
the
the
algorithm
and
the
the
methodology
that
you
use
in
your
app
to
for
pricing.
What
about
other
tnc
companies
does
this?
What
does
this
do
to
or
for
other
tnc
companies
and
senator
settlement?
You'll
probably
need
to
speak
to
that.
H
Yeah,
so
this
is
senator
settlement.
Thank
you
for
the
question
vice
chair
brooks.
I
have
reached
out
to
lyft.
Obviously,
I've
had
a
fair
amount
of
connections
throughout
the
years
on
this
particular
subject,
and
sadly,
due
to
the
economic
downturn
caused
by
the
pandemic,
lyft
has
chosen
to
cut
its
lobbying
teams
and
therefore
they
do
not
currently
have
representatives
in
any
states.
H
In
that
matter,
however,
it's
been
expressed
that
they
generally
follow
the
other
company,
to
say
the
least
in
their
platform,
and
that
what
is
generally
beneficial
for
the
one
is
generally
beneficial
for
them
and
likely
for
all,
since
most
of
them
have
decided
to
allow
one
particular
entity
to
kind
of
take
the
lead
in
making
sure,
and
then
they
tend
to
follow.
I
don't
know
if
I'm
being
too
vague
there
or
too
concise
to
tell
you
the
truth.
Vice
chair
brooks.
A
All
right
so
I'll
turn
it
over
to
to
my
question
now,
if
that's
okay,
if
no
other
committee
members
have
any
questions,
senator
settlemyre,
I
guess
my
my
question
is
if
this
is
in
response
or
the
major
issue
is
the
emergency
declaration.
H
Well
that
respect,
if
you'd
like
to
have
a
discussion
of
recession
of
414
powers,
I
have
a
great
proclamation
I
offered
in
a
previous
session,
but
since
it
didn't
necessarily
gain
majority
approval,
let's
say
I
kind
of
doubted
that
that
was
really
a
feasible
option.
H
This
seemed
to
be
the
most
the
least
sorry
argumentative
way
to
try
to
effectuate
a
change
that
could
help
my
constituencies
in
the
state
of
nevada.
So
to
me
that
was
the
most
logical
way
and
since
the
agency
has
not
stepped
forward
with
any
solutions
at
this
point
in
time,
yet
I've
had
several
friends,
unfortunately
get
duis
and
some
of
them
did
call
or
look
for
alternative
travel
and
through
the
utilizations
of
the
app
but
they
weren't
available.
H
I
found
to
be
unacceptable,
especially
in
the
next
generation
of
individuals.
It
is
customary
as
they
travel
to
utilize
the
tnc
experience
they
find
it
to
be
desirous
and
therefore
that's
what
they
looked
at.
In
the
state
of
nevada-
and
we
were
doing
a
very
a
fantastic
job
and
then
also
when
we
brought
this
legislation
around
originally,
I
reluctantly,
as
I'm
sure
you're,
shocked,
to
hear
agreed
to
stick
a
rather
hefty
excise
tax
on
this.
So
the
state
of
nevada
could
earn
a
fair
amount
of
resources
off
it.
Well,
those
are
downturn.
H
L
L
A
Okay,
we
will
then
open
it
up
for
testimony
in
opposition
to
senate
bill
279.
A
Okay,
let's
see
if
there's
anyone
who'd
like
to
testify
in
the
neutral
position,
please.
L
L
L
A
Okay,
senator
sotomayor
I'll.
Kick
it
back
to
you
for
any
closing
comments
if
you'd
like.
H
Thank
you
very
kindly,
madam
chair
chair
harris
and
the
committee
on
growth
and
infrastructure.
I'll
be
honest,
I'm
just
shaking
my
head
in
shock
and
awe
after
in
2015
spending
beyond
hours
beyond
days
beyond
the
weeks
beyond
well
months
and
years,
all
the
way
up
to
about
day
110
on
all
the
discussion
on
tnc's
and
to
have
no
one
call
and
support
opposition
or
neutralize
while
completely.
H
Absolutely
besides,
myself
with
that,
I
urge
you
to
think
favorably
from
this
bill
in
order
to
help
out
the
citizens
of
the
state
of
nevada,
our
visitors
to
our
great
state
and,
of
course,
the
bottom
line
of
the
nevada
coffers.
So
thank
you,
chair
for
your
time
and
indulgence
today.
A
All
right,
thanks
for
joining
us
with
that
I'll,
go
ahead
and
close
out
the
hearing
on
senate
bill,
279
and
I'll
turn
it
over
to
our
vice
chair,
senator
brooks
for
the
hearing
on
senate
bill
288,
as
I
will
be
presenting
that
bill.
J
A
Thank
you
so
much
vice
chair
brooks
good
afternoon
and
good
afternoon
to
the
members
of
the
senate,
growth
and
infrastructure
committee.
I
am
senator
dallas
harris
representing
senate
district
11
and
I'm
pleased
to
present
senate
bill
288.
Today,
it's
becoming
an
increasingly
prominent
model
for
autonomous
vehicle
services
to
be
bifurcated,
allowing
the
technology
provider
to
be
the
supplier
of
the
vehicle
equipment
and
safety
personnel.
A
A
With
me
today
is
sam
wemp
e
and
abe
gabra
from
motional,
and
I'm
sorry,
if
I
butchered
those
names,
as
you
may
remember,
from
their
presentation
earlier
this
session.
Motional
is
the
technology
partner
for
nevada's
autonomous
vehicle
services
offered
by
lyft
and
via.
I
also
have
matt
walker
from
greenberg
traurig,
who
will
walk
through
a
section
by
section
of
the
bill
and
will
be
available
to
questions
so
at
this
time.
I'll
turn
it
over
to
the
team
at
motional.
M
Thank
you,
chair
harris
good
afternoon.
Vice
chair
brooks
and
members
of
the
senate
growth
and
infrastructure
committee.
We
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
discuss
senate
bill
288.
I
am
abe
gabriel.
Vice
president
of
global
operations,
emotional,
I
also
oversee
the
250
employees
at
our
las
vegas
technical
center.
M
M
Motional
has
been
fortunate
to
achieve
several
key
company
milestones,
and
indeed
key
industry
achievements.
Right
here
in
nevada,
our
history
in
the
state
began
in
2018,
with
our
las
vegas
technical
center
grand
opening
and
followed
later
that
year,
with
a
public
autonomous
vehicle
pilot
with
lyft
in
las
vegas.
M
Last
year
we
announced
having
provided
over
100
000
rides
on
this
pilot,
and
it's
led
to
critical
insights
into
the
consumer
experience
and
helped
build
operational
knowledge
across
fleet
operations,
infrastructure
and
utilization
safety
is
our
number
one
priority,
and
our
vehicle
operators
are
emotional
employees
that
undergo
weeks
of
training
on
how
to
oversee
an
autonomous
vehicle.
In
addition
to
defensive
driving
courses
and
regular
refreshers
and
skills
assessments.
N
N
We
have
been
extremely
fortunate
to
have
had
a
great
relationship
with
our
government
partners
at
all
levels
from
the
city
of
las
vegas
and
henderson
to
clark
county
and
the
rtc.
We
are
honored
by
the
opportunity
to
discuss
the
future
of
transportation
with
this
committee
today,
because
we
have
the
biggest
footprint
of
any
av
company
in
nevada,
we're
at
the
cutting
edge
of
experiencing
how
the
legislative
and
regulatory
regime
in
nevada
applies
to
avs
on
a
day-to-day
basis.
As
abe
explained,
our
vehicle
operators
must
remain
employees
even
as
they
monitor
vehicles
used
in
commercial
pilots.
N
The
type
of
challenges
we're
discussing
the
payment
of
vehicle
monitors
and
vehicle
operators
of
an
autonomous
vehicle
is
not
one
anyone
really
anticipated.
When
the
rules
were
developed,
it
was
assumed
that
there
would
be
a
step
change
once
the
technology
was
ready.
Everything
would
be
fully
autonomous.
N
Instead,
it
is
a
much
more
of
a
gradual
transition
and
it
may
require
vehicle
monitors
in
some
situations.
For
years
to
come,
even
as
more
fully
autonomous
vehicles
are
deployed
in
certain
situations,
the
proposal
we
are
discussing
today
resolves
some
of
the
challenges
and
helps
nevada
continue
to
be
a
leader
in
the
future
of
transportation
technology.
I'll
now
turn
it
over
to
our
advisor
matthew,
walker,
who
will
step
through
the
section
by
section.
O
Thank
you
sam
good
afternoon,
vice
chair
brooks
and
committee
members.
My
name
is
matt
walker
for
the
record.
I'm
pleased
to
be
with
you
on
behalf
of
emotional
this
afternoon
to
walk
briefly
through
a
section
by
section
of
senate
bill
288,
as
amended
section
2
defines
an
autonomous,
monitored,
autonomous
vehicle.
This
differentiates
autonomous
vehicle
service
where
a
vehicle
operator
or
a
safety
engineer
is
present
from
a
fully
autonomous
vehicle
service
that
would
fall
under
nevada.
Revised
statute,
706
b,
section
3
defines
an
autonomous
vehicle
provider.
O
Motional
would
fall
under
the
this
definition
of
an
autonomous
vehicle
provider
as
they
own
the
technology
of
an
autonomous
taxi
service
and
hire
the
safety
engineer.
Who
provides
the
in-person
monitoring
of
the
vehicle
section
four
defines
safety
engineer.
This
is
the
person
behind
the
wheel
of
the
natanos
taxi
and
this
definition
helps
build
the
bridge
between
the
current
definition
of
driver
in
706,
a
in
the
driverless
environment
of
706
b,
section
5
allows
tnc's
to
enter
into
partnerships
with
an
autonomous
vehicle
provider.
O
O
Section
6
ensures
that
the
existing
regulatory
structure
for
anyone
providing
a
vehicle
to
a
tnc
under
706
a
is
not
bypassed
by
the
arrangement
under
section
5
of
the
bill.
There
should
be
no
loophole
in
706
a
regarding
vehicle
safety
or
oversight,
and
section
5
clears
up
any
potential
conflict
in
that
regard.
O
Section
7
builds
another
bridge
between
chapter
nrs
chapters,
706
a
and
706
b
under
706
a
200.
A
tnc
must
provide
the
license
plate
and
photo
of
the
driver
to
the
customer
under
706
b.
Only
the
plate
number
is
required.
Section
7
makes
it
clear
that,
in
an
autonomous
taxi
service
provided
by
a
tnc,
the
the
customer
only
needs
to
be
provided
with
the
photograph
of
the
the
license
plate
and
not
not.
O
While
this
may
be
a
duplicative
of
existing
requirements,
it
is
important
that,
as
the
service
transitions
between
chapters
there's
no
gap
in
safety
reporting
emotional
is
definitely
in
the
safety
business
as
much
as
they
are
in
the
technology.
Business
and
they're
committed
to
regulatory
access
and
to
key
safety
information.
O
O
O
Section
10
clarifies
when
an
autonomous
taxi
service
is
provided
by
a
tnc
through
a
partnership,
the
autonomous
vehicle
provider,
the
tnc,
is
still
subject
to
the
insurance
requirements
with
any
other
deployment
under
706
a
and
706
b.
So
again,
to
be
clear:
nothing
in
this
bill
would
interfere
with
any
of
the
existing
limits
and
statute
and
in
terms
of
what
insurance
coverage
is
required
by
tnc
sections
12
through
23
make
corresponding
changes,
and
then,
lastly,
section
24
of
the
amendment
proposes
to
change
the
effective
date
to
upon
passage
and
approval.
O
Before
I
conclude,
I
would
like
to
thank
asher
killian
with
the
legislative
council
bureau.
We
worked
with
senator
harris
on
a
much
narrower
change
to
nrs706a
and
his
experience
with
these
chapters
led
to
a
much
more
robust
and
stronger
draft.
We
really
appreciate
his
time
and
expertise
in
the
development
of
this
bill
and
with
that
I'll
conclude
and
we
stand
ready
for
questions.
Thank
you.
A
And
vice
chair
brooks
I'll,
also
note:
we
have
representatives
from
the
nta
on
the
line
as
well.
If
members
have
questions
that
might
be
better
suited
for
that.
J
F
Thank
you,
mr
right,
sir.
I
just
have
a
few
questions.
Just
from
a
practical
standpoint,
I
noticed
in
my
first
review
of
the
bill,
and
I
didn't
have
the
benefit
of
the
amendment
when
I
reviewed
it,
and
so
if
it's
changed
there,
I
apologize,
but
I
know
tncs
and
taxis
both
provide
both
photos
of
the
driver
and
the
license
plate
for
a
safety
matter.
O
O
You
so
great
question:
senator
the
construct
under
706
b
anticipates
that
only
the
license
plate
number
be
provided
and
not
the
driver,
because,
obviously
there
wouldn't
be
one.
I
do
want
to
say
that
before
I
asked
sam
wimpy
to
to
augment
the
answer
with
anything,
I
may
have
missed
that
706
b,
190
and
706
b320
also
require
various
autonomous
vehicle
identifiers
that
are
also
clearly
identifiable
from
the
exterior
of
the
vehicle.
O
N
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
matt,
sam
wimpy,
for
the
record.
Thank
you
very
much.
Yeah.
There
is
there's
a
couple
of
reasons
for
doing
this
I
mean
one
is
just
to
start
to
get
passengers.
You
know
comfortable.
These
are
autonomous
vehicles
and
making
sure
that
you
know
they're.
N
M
M
So
not
only
you
know
is
the
emotional
and
lift
are
the
motion
on
lift
brands
prominently
displayed,
but
we
also
have
the
special
nevada
red
license
plate
for
autonomous
vehicles
and
we
have
self-driving
vehicle
identifiers
on
the
vehicles
themselves.
F
People
want
to
know
who
they're
getting
in
the
car
with
and
we've
got
somebody
in
the
car
with
them
and
that's
always
been
at
least
as
it
was
has
been
explained
to
me,
a
part
of
the
safety
factor
for
the
consumer
to
know
who
they're
getting
in
the
car
with,
and
this
leads
directly
to
my
next
question,
if
I
may,
which
is
I
may
have
missed
mr
walker,
what
you
had
to
say.
But
is
this
safety
engineer
a
driver
or
not.
O
O
The
safety
engineer
is,
I
think,
what
you're
pointing
to
is
the
dynamic
that
that
there's
definitely
a
bridge
between
the
driver
and
the
traditional
sense
of
706
a
and
what
this
safety
engineer
represents.
So
I'd
like
for
sam
to
add
to
kind
of
the
the
functional
element
that
the
safety
engineer
provides,
but
also,
maybe
why
they're
present
in
the
vehicle
in
the
first
place.
I
think
that
might
be
helpful
for
the
committee.
N
Thank
you,
matthew,
sam
wimpy,
for
the
record.
So,
as
matthew
mentioned,
the
the
test
engineer
serves
a
number
of
roles
in
the
vehicle.
You
know
there
are
first
and
foremost,
safety
is
making
sure
that
absolutely
that
you
know
everyone
on
the
roadway
is
experiencing
the
safety
that
an
autonomous
vehicle
can
provide
so
they're
going
to
be
monitoring
everything
the
vehicle.
Does
they
also,
as
abe
mentioned
earlier
they're?
N
Really,
they
understand
all
with
all
the
software
updates,
the
intricacies
of
the
vehicle's
performance
and
behavior,
and
so,
if
there
are
certain
situations
where
the
vehicle
may
not
be
able
to
perform
they're
going
to
proactively
take
over
and
make
sure
that
the
vehicle
is
always
going
to
be
operating
in
a
safe
state
abe.
Is
there
anything
else
that
you
would
like
to
add.
M
This
is
abe
gabra,
yeah,
sam,
I
think
you've
got
it
all
I
mean,
as
we
mentioned
previously,
safety
is
our
top
priority
and
we
train
our
vehicle
operators,
our
safety
engineers,
to
always
have
that
top
of
mind,
and
every
software
release,
we're
testing
new
features
and
the
vehicles
are
becoming
more
human-like
and
how
they
operate,
and
we've
seen
that
with
our
initial
platforms
that
we
deployed
a
few
years
ago
and
we're
deploying
new
platforms
now
that
are
operating
without
a
driver
in
some
cases
on
nevada
public
roads.
M
So
as
we
continue
to
advance
this
technology,
it's
more
important.
It's
becoming
more
and
more
important
to
to
make
sure
that
we
have
employees
in
that
car
that
are
completely
trained
and
equipped
to
anticipate
the
the
vehicle's
behavior
and
ensure
everybody's
safety
in
and
around
the
vehicle.
F
All
right-
and
thank
you
for
that-
I
mean
I
don't
know
that
it's
comforting
to
think
that
these
cars
are
gonna,
be
human-like.
I
have
a
couple
of
kids
who
scare
me
to
death
regularly.
F
I'm
not
sure
I
want
an
autonomous
vehicle
doing
the
same
thing,
but
this
leads
to
my
last
question
and
the
reason
I
ask
about
the
driver
is
that
there's
an
entire
body
of
law
when
it
comes
to
the
accidents
and
crashes
that
we
see
and
and
we're
looking,
I'm
looking
specifically
at
section
eight
sub
three,
where
it's
the
drivers
that
responsible
that
is
responsible
for
the
operation
of
the
vehicle,
and
I
want
to
make
sure
it's
clear
on
the
record
whether
or
not
we
are
calling
this
safety
operator.
F
I'm
sure
we've
chosen
that
language
deliberately
instead
of
a
driver
because
number
one
they're
not
expected
to
drive,
except
for
when
they
have
to
take
over
then
they're
driving
the
vehicle.
We
need
to
make
sure
we're
clear
on
that,
because
when
we
have
a
crash
under
sub
three,
the
driver's
identity
is
not
to
be
disclosed
to
anyone
other
than
the
authority,
and
so
this
becomes
a
litigation
problem.
F
I
assume
that
this
would
be
discoverable
information,
but
what
happens
when
the
police
show
up
and
they're
taking
the
the
details?
Well,
you
know
there's
not
discovery
where
someone's
issuing
a
a
subpoena
or
a
a
an
interrogatory
asking
to
identify
who
was
behind
the
wheel.
How
do
we
resolve
this?
Is
this?
Is
there
an
exception
to
this
exception?.
A
And
mr
mr
gabra
and
and
mr
walker
I'll
just
I
think
I
can
kind
of
distill
senator
piglet's
question
down
a
little
bit
if
you
guys
could
just
hit
on
the
liability
provisions.
Maybe
what
to
do
in
in
in
in
an
instance
where
there's
an
accident.
A
Well,
senator
pickard,
it
seems
from
your
question
you're
concerned
about
being
able
to
hold
someone
liable
for
the
accident,
and-
and
so
I,
whether
you
know
that
I
understand
you're,
tying
that
to
a
definition
of
a
driver.
But
I
I
want
mr
walker,
mr
gobber,
to
give
you
a
little
bit
of
an
explanation
about
who
would
be
held
liable
and
maybe
how
that
works.
And
I
I
think
that
might
delay.
O
Sure,
thank
you
senator
picker
for
the
question
again:
matt
walker
for
the
record
on
behalf
of
emotional,
I'm
going
to
touch
on
a
few
things
about
the
function
of
defining
something
other
than
a
driver
and
then
I'll.
Let
mr
gabra
speak
to
the
liability,
questions
and
concerns
from
senator
pickard,
but
essentially
there's
something
other
than
a
driver,
because
we
want
to
ensure
that
the
safety
the
technology
provider
can
employ
that
safety
engineer.
O
It's
best
practice
to
have
that
safety
engineer
employed
by
and
trained
by
and
overseen
by
the
the
technology
provider
and
that's
what
we
hope
to
accomplish
by
defining
it
as
something
other
than
than
a
driver.
Also,
unlike
a
driver
under
the
706
and
706
a
construct,
this
person
isn't
receiving
different
compensation
based
on
ride
length,
they're,
not
receiving
tips.
They
really
are
there
for
the
management
of
the
technology
and
safety
intervention
in
the
case
that
that
such
is
needed.
O
M
So
sure
this
is
abegabra
again
so
so
far
as
we've
been
operating
in
nevada
for
a
few
years,
whenever
there's
an
incident-
and
you
know
sometimes
we
involve
law
enforcement
and
we
have
close
cooperation
with
both
nevada
highway
patrol
and
las
vegas
metro
police.
M
M
But
ultimately
you
know
these
are
emotional
owned
and
operated
vehicles
and-
and
we
are
responsible,
regardless
of
which
employee
is
in
the
car
at
that
time-
and
that's
how
we've
approached
all
of
our
operations
in
the
state
today.
N
Yeah-
and
I
will
just
add-
thanks-
save
this
sam
wimpy
for
the
record-
that
some
of
the
existing
statutes
already
cover
the
definition
of
driver
when
it
comes
to
a
fully
autonomous
vehicle,
which
I
think
is
where
this
gets
into
more
of
the
like
fundamental
nature
of
some
of
your
questions
for
the
you
know
in
the
situations
that
we're
talking
about
here,
there
is
still
a
driver
on
board,
so
I
I
think
we
we
don't
necessarily
need
to
address
some
of
those
in
this
particular
situation.
F
All
right-
and
I
appreciate
that-
and
I
just
want-
I
mean
it's
clear
because
it's
the
off
it's
the
weird
spot,
where
that
question
is
going
to
become
important,
where
maybe
the
driver
did
something
really
wacky,
I'm
sorry,
the
the
safety
operator
took
control
under
an
emergency
and
did
something
that
made
no
sense
at
all.
And
now
you
know
the
the
company
is
in
a
position
where
that's
an
ultra
virus
act.
You
know
they
went
beyond
their
training,
they
didn't
follow
their
training,
we're
not
responsible.
I
could
just.
F
I
could
see
this
being
a
litigation
nightmare,
and
so,
if
we
can
be
solid-
and
you
just
answer
the
question-
they
are,
for
that
instance
considered
a
driver
now
they're
all
looped
in
nobody's
getting
out
of
liability
and
the
the
victim
of
the
crash
is
going
to
be
made
whole.
So
thank
you.
Thank
you
for
your
indulgence,
mr
vice
chair.
I
appreciate
the
opportunity.
D
Because
I
was
looking
at
that
term
again
at
safety
engineer,
the
only
time
I
can
see
that
is
actually
in
statute
is
in
nrs625.520,
and
I
don't
think
that
that
is
what
you
had
in
mind
when
you
are
looking
at
what
a
safety
engineer
is.
Is
that
am
I
correct
in
assuming
that
it
has
nothing
to
do
with
that
particular.
O
Nrs
matt
walker
for
the
record
on
behalf
of
emotional.
Yes,
this
would
be
a
new
construct.
That's
intended
to
remain
in
the
confines
of
this
chapter.
Thank
you
for
the
question.
J
Thank
you.
Do
any
of
the
other
committee
members
have
a
question
any
questions
or
comments
for
senator
harris
or
her
team.
J
It
looks
as
if
we
do
not
senator
harris
so
with
that.
I
will
go
to
the
phones
and
see
if
we
have
anyone
on
the
phone
and
support
of
senate
bill.
288.
L
L
L
L
J
And
finally,
can
we
see
if
there's
anyone
on
the
line
who
would
like
to
offer
testimony
in
the
neutral
position
on
senate
bill
288.
L
L
J
Thank
you,
so
it
doesn't
seem
like
we
have
anyone
on
the
line
to
make
any
any
comments
on
senate
bill
288.
So
with
that,
would
you
have
any
final
comments
that
you
would
like
to
make
senator
harris
on
this
bill.
A
Sure,
I'll
just
close
by
saying
I
I
think
we
can
all
see
it-
makes
a
bit
more
sense
for
the
person
in
the
car,
the
the
safety
engineer
to
be
paid
by
and
being
employee
of
the
autonomous
vehicle
company,
as
opposed
to
the
the
tnc
that
the
autonomous
vehicle
company
has
paired
with,
and
we
just
need
to
make
a
couple
of
changes
to
make
that
happen.
A
I
think
we
can
do
that
without
risking
safety
or
any
licensing
concerns,
while
also
just
making
this
make
a
little
bit
more
sense.
So
we
can
kind
of
proliferate.
These
type
of
agreements,
which
I
think
we're
all
on
board
for.
Thank
you
so
much.
J
Thank
you
senator
harris,
and
with
that
we'll
bring
the
hearing
on
senate
bill
288
to
a
close
and
chair
harris
since
you're
already
up.
Do
you
want
to
just
take
the
agenda
out
of
order
and
and
here's
senate
bill
387.
A
I
promised
the
senators
we'd
go
in
numerical
order,
although
that
does
make
sense.
So
we'll
we'll
do
this
dance
one
more
time
vice
chair
brooks.
If
that's
okay
with
you.
A
B
You
good
afternoon
s
members
of
the
committee.
I
am
roberta
lang
representing
senate
district
7
in
clark
county.
Thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
present
senate
bill
328
a
bill
addressing
targets
for
energy
storage.
I
am
pleased
to
be
joined
by
ernie
adler
from
silver
state
government
relations
hunter
stern
from
ibw
1245.
B
As
you
may
recall,
senate
bill
204
in
the
2017
session,
directed
the
public
utilities
commission
to
do
a
cost
benefit
analysis
on
targets
for
energy
storage
capacity
and
to
set
biennial
targets
if
the
benefits
outweighed
the
cause.
The
analysis
resulted
in
the
pucn
setting
biennial
targets
that
started
with
a
hundred
megawatt
target
for
2020
and
increased
to
a
thousand
megawatts
in
2030.,
since
we
enacted
senate
bill
204
in
2017,
energy
storage
is
increasingly
recognized
as
a
critical
component
of
efforts
to
reduce
greenhouse
gas
emissions
and
to
facilitate
the
nation's
migration
to
renewable
energy.
B
According
to
the
national
conference
of
state
legislators
over
the
past
two
years,
it
has
tracked
over
260
bills
related
to
energy
storage.
Up
from
only
88
bills,
between
2017
and
2018.,
along
with
nevada,
six
other
states
have
set
20
30
energy
storage
targets
or
goals
generally,
ranging
from
1
000
megawatts
to
3
000
megawatts.
B
Before
I
walk
through
the
bill,
I
want
to
discuss
the
proposed
amendment
posted
on
nella's.
The
proposed
amendment
will
remove
the
specific
targets
in
section
3,
subsection,
1
and
substitute
a
requirement
that
the
public
utilities
commission
use
the
2021
integrated
resource
plan
or
irp
to
reassess
the
targets
and
establish
new
ones.
B
Under
the
proposed
amendment,
the
public
utilities
commission
will
report
back
to
the
legislative
commission
by
january
1,
2022
or
when
new
targets
are
established.
Whichever
is
sooner
returning
now
to
the
original
bill.
You
will
see
that
subsection
3
of
section
3
sets
forth
the
process.
The
public
utilities
commission
to
grant
a
waiver
or
deferral
of
a
target
based
on
a
cost
cost-benefit
analysis
which
looks
at
10
factors
listed
on
the
top
of
page
9..
B
Section
6
and
7
incorporate
these
qualifications
into
chapter
624
of
the
nrs,
which
regulates
contractors
to
the
state's
contractor's
board,
going
back
to
section
one.
It
simply
requires
an
electrical
utility
to
include
a
plan
for
energy
storage
procurement
as
part
of
its
triennial
integrated
resource
plan.
The
remaining
sections
of
the
bill
will
be
further
amended
as
needed
to
be
consistent
with
the
proposed
amendment
to
subsection
one
of
section
three
chair
harris.
This
concludes
my
presentation.
B
I
would
like
to
now
turn
it
over
to
hunter
stern,
with
ibew
1245,
who
will
discuss
section
five,
the
qualifications.
I
will
also
point
out
to
the
committee.
We
have
received
a
lot
of
interest
in
this
section.
We
are
working
with
a
lot
of
groups
on
proposals.
We've
received
a
proposed
amendment.
We
haven't
settled
on
anything
yet,
but
I
felt
it
was
really
important
to
get
on
the
record
what
what
this
bill?
P
Thank
you
senator
good
afternoon,
chair
harris
vice
chair
brooks
and
members
of
the
committee.
My
name
is
hunter
stern.
I'm
an
assistant
business
manager
of
ibw,
local
union
1245,
our
members
work
for
envy,
energy
and
contractors
doing
line
line
work
as
well
as
tree
trimmers
that
do
line
clearance,
tree
trimming
in
northern
and
central
nevada,
and
so
as
as
as
senator
lang
mentioned,
the
section
5
specifies
a
couple
of
requirements
for
people
performing
this
work.
P
The
first
requirement
is
around
the
specialty
or
knowledge
of
of
electrical
contractors.
These
are
c2
contractors
in
nevada,
as
well
as
specifically
completing
a
certification
program
known
as
the
is
e-symtac
or
energy
storage
and
microgrid
training
and
and
certification
program.
This
is
a
national
program
that
was
developed
by
or
at
and
and
mostly
by
penn
state
university,
along
with
other
other
special
specific
interests,
firefighters,
as
well
as
the
eeic
and
other
utility
and
and
individual
con
energy
contractors
in
throughout
the
country.
P
It's
a
national
standard,
it's
relatively
new,
but
we
are
fortunate
that
a
number,
the
largest
number
of
people
who
have
gone
through
this
program
actually
did
so
in
las
vegas
through
the
training
center
run
by
ibw
357.
P
This
is
a
training
program
that
is,
it
is
non-branded
non-specific
and
any
qualified
electrician
and
qualified
electrical
contractor
in
any
state
can
apply
for
and
receive
this
training
as
it's
set
up
with
it,
as
in
addition,
some
of
the
reasons
there's
a
number
of
reasons.
Obviously
you
want
to
you
want
to
get
any
electrical
equipment
installed
and
operating
properly
and
correctly,
because
90
of
energy
storage
systems
rely
on
lithium-ion
batteries,
at
least
90
percent
of
those
that
are
installed
today.
P
There
are
some
real
advantages
to
lithium-ion
batteries
such
as
they're
high,
efficient
they're,
relatively
efficient
they're
high
in
energy
density,
meaning
that
they
can
receive
and
hold
electric
a
large
amount
of
electricity
compared
to
other
battery
systems
and
other
energy
storage
systems
generally,
and
they
can
also
just
disperse
this
electricity
relatively
efficiently.
P
However,
there's
also
some
negative
effects
and
or
negative
aspects
to
lithium
ion,
particularly
is
that
they
run
hot
and
if
there
is
any
kind
of
thermal,
runaway
or
combustion,
which
means
fire
once
that
battery
begins
to
discharge
its
energy,
you
can't
put
out
any
kind
of
fires,
and
so
there's
been
concerns,
and
I've
actually
heard
from
firefighters
on
this
issue
as
well
and
in
the
best
way
that
we
know
how
to
ensure
safety
and
certainty
in
the
equipment
is
to
have
the
right
people
trained
in
the
right
way
to
install
and
maintain
it,
and
with
that.
P
That
is
a
brief
outline
and
if
there's
obviously
any
questions
for
either
myself
or
the
senator
we'd
be
happy
to
answer
them.
B
B
Q
Q
The
energy
information
administration,
a
report
that
came
out
last
year
that
said
that
the
costs
had
come
down,
70
from
2015
to
2018,
and
then
I
was
looking
recently
at
an
nrel
forecast
that
they're
predicting
another
67
70
decline
from
where
we
are
now
through
2030,
and
so
the
other
events
that
have
happened
since
2017
of
relevance
to
this
discussion.
Q
Q
None
of
them
are
online
yet,
but
the
first
three
are
projected
to
be
online
in
commercial
operation
by
this
year,
which
would
bring
100
megawatts
of
energy
storage
and
then
by
the
end
of
23,
there
will,
if,
if
all
these
projects
stay
on
schedule,
there
will
be
a
thousand
and
twenty
eight
megawatts
of
energy
storage
online
on
nb
energy
system.
Q
So
the
2030
target
of
a
thousand
megawatts
needs
to
be
revisited
in
light
of
circumstances
and
events
that
have
happened,
and
primarily
the
plummeting
cost
of
of
energy
storage
system,
battery
energy
start
systems
and
then
their
need
on
envy
energy
system,
as,
as
you
add,
more
and
more
solar
intermittent
solar
resources
to
the
the
energy
mix.
Those
events
really
call
out
for
revisiting
the
storage
targets,
as
is
provided
in
in
this
bill
and
the
conceptual
amendment,
and
with
that
I'll
stop.
Thank
you.
B
F
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
Just
a
couple
of
questions
with
respect
to
the
target
set
in
section
three:
are
there
other
states
that
have
set
hard
target?
I
mean
we
just
put
these
regulations
in
place
with
their
targets
and
now
we're
putting
them
in
statute
instead
of
in
regulation,
which
means
we
don't
change
them
until
every
two
years,
assuming
we
can
get
a
majority
to
vote
for
it.
How
many
states
have
put
these
kind
of
targets
in
their
statutes
instead
of
regulation.
Q
Unfortunately,
senator
I
cannot
it's
information.
I
can
certainly
look
to
you
and
see,
but,
as
I
understand
it,
just
to
clarify,
as
I
understand
the
conceptual
amendment,
we
remove
the
specific
targets
from
this
bill,
and
so
those
would
be
revisited
by
the
commission
and
reported
back
to
the
legislature
as
compared
to
be
put
in
statute.
But
I
can
certainly
run
down
that
information.
F
All
right,
I
appreciate
that
and
I
had
missed
that
provision
of
the
conceptual
amendment.
F
B
So
I
think
that
the
reason
we
had
the
conceptual
amendment
is
because
we
didn't
want
to
be
prescriptive.
F
Sure-
and
I
I
agree
with
that
line
of
thinking,
so
I
appreciate
that
and
then
my
second
question
had
to
do
with
section
five,
particularly
where
it
says
a
person
shall
not
install
an
energy
storage
system
in
the
state
unless
they
hold
a
valid
license
and
and
the
certificate
of
training,
and
then
what
about?
I?
F
So
that's
going
to
preclude
the
do-it-yourselfer
and
I'm
not
saying
that
that's
necessarily
a
bad
thing,
but
does
this
require
anything
more
than
what
the
current
residential
contractors
the
c2f
contractors
are
are
able
to
do
with
this
require
additional
licensure
or
training
for
them?
B
Sure
senator
picker,
let
me
just
take
a
stab
at
it
first
and
then
I'm
going
to
ask
hunter
to
talk
about
the
specific
training.
I
think
that's
what's
most
important
to
us
when
we
created
this
bill
is
that
there
is
a
certain
degree
of
safety
both
for
the
public
and
for
if
there
were
a
fire
where
the
firefighters
are
going
to
come
and
fight
that
fire.
And
so
that's
why
we
have
that
language
in
there
and
then
all
have
hunters
speak
a
little
bit
about
the
specifics
of
the
licensure.
P
Yes,
thank
you
senator
hunter
stern
for
the
record
hunter
stern,
ibw,
local
1245
and
yes,
senator
pickard.
That
is
specifically
the
additional
certification
or
training.
Is
that
esamtack
program
so
that
a
c2
licensed
contractor
with
that
with
a
certification
of
completion
of
the
esimtech
program
would
be
fully
qualified
to
install
and
maintain
those
energy
storage
systems.
P
Well,
the
training,
the
cost-
I'm
not
100
sure,
although
I'm
I'm
quite
sure
that
there's
one
or
two
people
on
the
line
who
might
be
able
to
answer
the
question
some
of
my
brothers
and
and
also
contractors
who
have
gone
through
the
training.
The
training
itself
is
four
weeks
two
days
a
week,
so
it's
it's
more
than
just
a
a
day
or
a
refresher,
but
it's
less
than
a
full-fledged.
P
You
know
months-long
class.
F
J
Vice
chair
brooks
thank
you,
chair
harris.
I
have
a
question
kind
of
along
the
lines
of
what
senator
pickard
was
asking.
I
believe
this
this
this.
The
the
goals
and
the
targets
that
we
have
in
here,
as
well
as
the
certification
necessary,
is
as
it
pertains
to
the
utility
or
utilities
in
their
procurement
plan
or
utility
scale
storage
is,
is
that
is
that
correct,
senator.
P
Yes,
hunter
stern,
ibw,
local
1245.,
so
this
center,
I
might
have
missed
part
of
your
question.
Apologies.
The
question
was
specifically
about
the
the
number
or
amount
of
certificate
certification
required.
Could
you
please
restate
it
sorry.
J
This
was
along
the
lines
of
senator
pickard's
question,
so
it's
it
appears
that
the
the
goals
that
are
stated
in
this
are
for
utility
skill
procurement
by
the
by
the
utilities
for
for
for
energy
storage,
but
it
it
might
appear
as
if
or
at
reading
this
in
chapter
624,
the
the
provisions
in
chapter
624
that
it
wants
to
modify
that
that,
if
you
were
installing
energy
storage,
you'd
have
to
be
appropriately
licensed
and
get
the
the
certification
that's
necessary,
regardless
of
what
type
of
storage
where
that
storage
application
was
going
to
be.
P
I
think
it
is
as
it's.
Yes,
I
think
you
are
interpreting
it
as
it's
drafted.
I
there's
some
difficulty
in
distinguishing
with
the
technology
whether
or
not
the
installer
is
adequately
versed
in
the
equipment
to
design
and
install
the
the
lithium-ion
battery
systems.
P
So
the
the
again
the
safe
approach
is
to
ensure
that
everybody
is
qualified
to
do
to
to
do
what's
necessary,
whether
it's
in
a
home
or
you
know,
in
a
commer,
in
a
commercial
sort
of
a
smaller
commercial
building
rather
than
than
utility
scale,
and
I
would
point
out,
especially
with
those
smaller
residential
as
senator
pickard
identified
the
residential
contractors.
P
It's
those
kinds
of
customers
who
will
have
this
equipment.
You
know
either
in
their
home
or
garage
or
or
sitting
near
their
meter,
which
actually
poses
a
greater
threat
to
their
property
than
what
is
installed
either
at
a
large
solar
array
or
utility
scale,
somewhere
out
away
from
the
public
and
away
from
homes
and
and
and
people.
P
J
I
appreciate
that
I
have
a
giant
battery
sitting
in
my
garage,
so
I'm
glad
that
I
hired
a
properly
licensed
and
trained
contractor
to
install
it.
So
in
a
conversation
with
the
contractors
board,
I
they
had
mentioned
and
I'm
sorry
I'm
just
bringing
this
up
now
senator
they
had
mentioned
that
a
valid
license
in
the
specialty
of
electrical
contracting
with
any
subclassification
might
be
too
narrow
and
a
valid
license
issued
pursuant
to
this
chapter
might
be
appropriate.
J
If
you
can
imagine
some
of
the
larger
scale
when
we
look
at
the
energy
definition
of
energy
storage,
some
of
these
larger
scales
will
need
multiple
disciplines
and
might
need
a
general
engineering
license,
or
something
like
that.
So
I'll
submit
that
to
you
for
your
for
your
consideration
for
possible
addition
to
your
amendment.
I
apologize
for
just
bringing
it
up
right
now,
but
I
think
it
and
and
matches
up
with
the
definition
of
energy
storage
just
a
little
bit
better.
J
But
I
I
appreciate
this
sam
tech,
I've
toured
the
facility
I've
seen
the
training
curriculum
and
I've
talked
to
many
of
the
instructors,
and
I'm
proud
that
you
know
we're
training
trainers
all
over
the
country
right
here
in
southern
nevada
or
here
in
nevada.
So
I
appreciate
this
additional
safety
measure
for
energy
storage
systems.
B
In
senator
brooks,
we
do
have
that
proposed
amendment
from
the
contractors,
so
don't
feel
bad.
We
we
are
working
through
that
process.
We
just
couldn't
get
it
finished
before
committee.
Thank
you.
D
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
You
know
when
you
were
having
a
discussion
earlier
and
you're
talking
about
your
your
your
goals,
utilities,
storage
goals
and
most
of
the
conversation
was
centered
around,
not
residential,
but
commercial.
I
was
wondering
if
it
really
is
purely
a
goal
to
store
a
certain
amount
of
energy,
would
would
not
the
residential
then
maybe
be
calculated.
Can
we
use
residential
storage
capacity
to
then
achieve
that
that
goal,
or
is
that
something?
Q
You
know
it's
it's
it's
of
a
much
smaller
scale
today,
although
it
nationally
it
is
increasing
rapidly
because
costs
are
also
declining
there
and
because
of
events
in
texas
and
in
california,
and
we're
closer
to
california,
obviously,
but
there's
a
much
much
greater
concern
about
resilience
and
so
there's
much
greater
interest
in
adding
adding
battery
storage
to
a
rooftop
solar
system
for
what's
been
turned
critical
needs
so
that
you
can
continue
to
have
some
electricity
during
a
prolonged
outage,
but
I
don't
believe
there's
anything
in
this
bill
that
would
exclude
storage
on
the
customer
side
of
the
meter,
either
by
either
residential
or
commercial
customers.
Q
They
provided
incentives
for
about
7
000
kilowatts
of
behind
the
meter
customer
storage.
I
don't
know
if
they're,
if
that's
indicative
of
the
total
amount
of
it
in
nevada,
but
but
that
was
in
2020
for
mb
energy
and
so
that's
about
seven
megawatts
of
of
capacity
on
the
customer
side
of
the
union.
Thank
you.
D
Thank
you
very
much
for
the
answer,
so,
if
I
could
follow
up,
it
sounds
like
what
you're
saying
is:
yes,
you
could
add
residential
in
order
to
achieve
the
goal
that
set
forth
in
order
to
do.
That,
though,
would
you
know
the
everything
that
was
already
in
204
earlier?
D
Would
it
allow
those
who
do
residential
storage
than
to
actually
be
licensed,
or
they
would
they
need
to
do
any
additional
licensing
in
in
order
to
is
there
any?
You
know
additional
licensing
or
other
additional
burdens
that
residential
contractors
would
have
to
do
in
order
to
be
able
to
meet
the
needs
that
are
set
forth
in
this
bill
in
order
to
store
the
store
properly.
P
Senator
hunter
stern,
ibw,
local
1245.
again,
the
the
additional
training
beyond
the
the
c2
contractor
license
would
be
that
east
semtech
training
that
we
were
discussing
previously.
When
I
was
speaking
when
I
was
responding
to
senator
brooks's
question.
So
it's
it
is
a
a
four-week
two-a-day
certification
for
those
contractors.
D
And
again
you
you
don't
know
offhand
the
cost
that
that
would
be
for
somebody
who's
looking
to
be
able
to
do
that.
D
A
Okay,
seeing
none
bps,
if
you
could
please
open
up
the
lines
for
testimony
in
support
of
senate
bill
328.
L
D
Good
afternoon
mountain
chair,
my
name
is
danny
thompson,
d-a-n-n-y
thompson
p-h-o-m-p-s-o-n,
I'm
here
today
representing
ibw
local
396..
We
just
want
to
go
on
record
in
support
of
this
bill.
You
know
having
the
properly
trained
individuals
doing
this
type
work
can't
be
understated
when
you're
dealing
with
electricity
in
the
public.
So
just
want
to
add
our
support
to
this
film.
Thank.
L
L
R
I
heard
mention
questions
about
the
cost
and
we're
we
are
looking
at
roughly
about
a
250
fee
for
a
for
a
16
modules,
which
is
four
weeks
of
two
classes
a
a
week.
R
L
D
Good
afternoon,
mr
chairman
and
members
of
the
committee
for
the
record
tom
tom
last
name
dunn,
d-u-n-n
district,
vice
president
of
the
professional
firefighters
in
nevada,
we're
here
today
in
support
of
sb
328
and
specifically
addressing
our
comments
to
section
5.
in
april
of
2019.
Four
firefighters
were
seriously
hurt
in
a
commercial
energy
storage
system,
explosion
in
arizona
their
injuries,
included,
burns,
traumatic,
brain
injury,
internal
bleeding
and
broken
bones.
D
There
were
no
means
for
the
hazmat
team
to
monitor
toxic
gas
concentrations,
the
lower
explosive
level
limit
or
the
conditions
inside
the
energy
storage
system
from
a
physically
secure
location.
The
energy
storage
system
communication
system
failed
before
the
hazmat
team
even
arrived
at
the
incident.
Personnel
who
maintained
the
energy
storage
system
and
the
fire
department
were
unable
to
use
the
system
to
understand
the
conditions
inside
the
installation.
D
In
conclusion,
from
our
testimony
today,
we
want
to
ensure
that
when
we
arrive
on
these
seams
that
we
have
the
best
possible
information
that
we
have,
we
want
to
make
sure
that
they
are
constructed
to
the
best
possible
standards
and
maintained
through
those
standards
and
licensing
such
as
esamtack
as
well.
Thank
you
very
much.
A
F
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
I
really
appreciate
the
opportunity,
mr
dunn,
just
a
quick
question,
because
I
I
I
would
like
to
know
a
little
bit
more
about
the
arizona
fire
situation.
That
was
a
was
that
a
utility
sized
storage
facility,
or
was
that
a
small
one
for
a
business
or
I'm
trying
to
figure
out
where
the
boundaries
are
for
the
large
ones
and
the
fire
risk
versus
the
small
residential
ones.
D
The
one
specific
arizona
was
basically
a
small
complex
of
for
a
lack
of
better
definition
or
explanation,
connex
boxes
or
shipping
containers
that
appear
to
have
been
retrofitted
to
include
an
energy
storage
system,
and
so
we
believe
that
this,
this
type
of
issue
applies
to
large,
whether
it
be
large
megawatt
facilities
or
smaller
commercial
facilities.
That
would
you
know,
potentially
power
a
block
or
a
specific
building
type.
D
I
am
personally
not
aware
of
any
of
these
explosions
that
have
happened
on
a
residential
facility
here
in
the
state
of
nevada,
and
that's
I'm
not
personally
aware
of
any
today
that
happened
in
the
state
of
nevada.
L
L
K
Good
afternoon
share
harris
and
members
of
the
committee,
my
name
is
matt
rubin
m-a-t-t
r-u-b-I-n,
I'm
an
energy
policy
analyst
with
western
resource
advocates.
Wra
is
a
non-profit
organization
dedicated
to
protecting
the
west's
land,
air
and
water.
Wra
supports
the
efforts
senate
bill
328
to
continue
to
expand
the
build-out
of
battery
energy
storage
in
nevada.
K
And
in
higher
demand
in
nevada,
that
means
charging
batteries
midday
when
there
is
excess,
solar
energy
production
and
discharging
from
9
to
5
pm.
When
demand
is
greatest
batteries
further
displace
the
use
of
emissions.
Intensive
gas
speakers
that
would
otherwise
be
called
upon
to
meet
peak
demand
lazard's
most
recent
levelized
cost
of
storage
analysis
already
shows
that
batteries
co-located
with
solar
are
less
expensive
than
new
gas
speakers
on
a
dollar
per
megawatt-hour
basis.
For
these
reasons,
wra
supports
the
passage
of
sb
328.
K
K
L
G
G
G
Presently
the
electrical
contractors
are
required
to
carry
a
certificate
if
you're,
if
you
want
to
do
fire
alarm,
work
you're
required
to
carry
another
certificate.
If
you
deal
with
electric
car
charging,
you
also
need
a
certificate
if
you're
dealing
with
solar
energy
as
a
matter
of
fact,
you
cannot.
L
L
L
L
L
C
Hi
there
chair
harris
the
members
of
the
community
for
the
record.
My
name
is
jeff
morris
j
e,
f,
o
m-o-r-r-I-s,
I'm
the
senior
director
of
state
government
relations
for
schneider
electric
north
america
fc
is
a
global
500
company.
In
the
automation,
energy
management
space
we
have
approximately
58
employees
in
nevada,
mainly
in
the
building
automation
area,
working
with
some
of
the
largest
buildings
in
las
vegas.
We
are
ranked
the
number
one
sustainability
corporation
in
the
world.
C
C
Essie
is
neutral
on
the
legislation
before
you
today,
but
would
like
to
work
with
the
sponsor
to
improve
on
the
ideas
as
they
are
presented.
We
currently
do
not
have
any
proprietary
high
voltage
battery
devices
that
are
sc
products
in
the
us
market.
We
have
some
areas
of
concern
on
the
bill
as
presented.
The
underlying
storage
policy
is
in
need
of
a
technology
update
or
modernization.
C
Specifically,
we
recommend
an
outcome-based
technology,
neutral
policy
that
focuses
balancing
on
circuits
and
the
top
200
hours.
The
key
capacity
for
demand,
peak
capacity
for
hosting
or
ancillary
services
from
the
bottom
up,
instead
of
the
top
down
the
most
economically
efficient
and
decarbonized
transaction,
is
when
supply
and
demand
can
meet
at
the
cheap
at
the
closest
proximity
possible.
C
If
you
happen
to
be
in
t-mobile
arena
in
las
vegas,
we
have
a
great
kiosk
display
about
automated
buildings
and
how
our
digitized
platforms
with
machine
learning
can
optimize
for
each
customer's
values.
We
use
air
water
and
sometimes
batteries,
to
store
and
use
energy.
If
we
had
a
two-way
communication
platform,
we
could
extend
that
optimization
to
work
with
the
local
distribution
utility
for
the
benefit
of
all
ratepayers.
C
Please
keep
the
door
open
for
customer
and
privately
owned
storage.
First
to
optimize
customer
investment
before
utility
build
storage,
our
customers,
who
value
resiliency
or
decarbonization
as
a
primary
value,
often
build
storage
into
their
value
chain
and
not
using
the
capital
that
capital
deported
way
doesn't
recognize
the
benefits
of
the
dynamic
load.
The
technology
provides
today
the
definition
of
storage
in
today's
law.
C
There's
a
strange
juxtaposition
could
mean
anything
from
a
desktop
ups
and
rectal
power
device
to
data
center
ups,
as
well
as
thermal
loads
and
buildings
in
our
better
inner
battery
energy
management
systems
for
our
customers
or
behind
behind
utility
meter
connections.
The
scope
of
the
bill
should
be
refined
to
mitigate
unattended
consequences.
If
it
was
really
targeted
at
high
voltage
lithium
batteries,
it
should
just
state
that
and
not
use
the
underlying
definition
of
storage.
What
includes
everything
I
just
listed?
C
C
Modern
building
codes
keep
the
edge
of
the
internet
of
things
safe,
as
well
as
consumer
protection
law
schedule.
Electric
is
supportive
of
a
well-trained
and
paid
workforce.
Although
it's
not
common
to
see
a
state
legislature
delegate
their
legislative
authority
to
an
unelected
out
of
state
group.
If
the
outcomes
outlined
in
the
penn
state
safety
training
program
were
desired,
we
would
support
seeing
the
reference
by
a
date
certain
for
a
state
agency
to
develop
nevada
rules.
Also,
it's
not
clear
again
because
of
the
strange
juxtaposition
of
the
training
is
aimed
at
both
outdoor
and
indoor
electricians.
C
The
current
definition
of
storage
would
cover
plug-in
low
voltage,
gps
to
high
voltage
megawatt
installations
to
those
air
and
water
loads.
I
mentioned
before
also
some
legal
considerations
should
be
given
for
avoiding
existing
warranty
agreements
amongst
manufacturers
for
devices
already
deployed
or
in
the
process
of
being
deployed.
C
To
close,
we
recommend
the
body
to
consider
asking
the
state
pc
to
conduct
a
technology
review
of
how
storage
is
organized
behind
microgrid
or
energy
management
platforms
and
to
create
a
tariff
and
rate
schedule
in
those
top
200
hours
of
peaking
and
hosting
capacity
and
ancillary
services
on
substation
circuits.
They
adopt
two-way
communication
system
for
distribution
utilities
for
technologies
that
meet
state
policy
goals,
regardless
of
type.
An
advanced
policy,
would
also
recognize
that
distribution
utilities
need
to
invest
more
rate-based
investments
to
digitize
their
analog
distribution
systems.
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions
and
appreciate
the.
C
L
S
L
L
S
Good
afternoon,
chair
harris
vice
chair,
brooks
and
members
of
the
committee
for
the
record.
My
name
is
ryan
bellows,
r-y-a-n
b-e-l-l-o-w-s,
I'm
the
director
of
labor
and
external
relations
for
nb
energy,
nb
energy
would
like
to
testify
in
neutral
on
senate
bill
328.
We
are
currently
reviewing
the
conceptual
amendment
and
we
look
forward
to
working
with
the
bill
sponsor
on
this
bill,
as
we
certainly
support
the
expansion
of
energy
storage
in
this
state
nv
energy
has
emerged
as
a
leader
in
energy
storage.
We
have
several
large-scale
battery
storage
projects
that
are
being
constructed.
S
We
continue
to
study
the
benefits
and
the
impact
of
energy
storage
on
our
system,
and
we
know
that
as
more
of
our
renewable
projects
come
online.
Energy
storage
will
be
a
critical
piece
of
the
puzzle
to
ensuring
that
we
can
meet
demand
for
our
customers
when
these
renewable
projects
are
not
producing
energy.
S
S
Finally,
I
would
mention
that,
in
our
experience,
we've
seen
that
when
a
mandate
or
a
target
or
a
goal
is
in
place
that
requires
us
to
procure
a
certain
quantity
of
energy.
It
can
lead
to
inflated
pricing
from
developers
which
can
also
lead
to
higher
prices
for
our
customers.
So
we
we
definitely
look
forward
to
working
with
the
bill
sponsor
on
this
bill
and
the
other
stakeholders
as
this
bill
progresses.
Thank.
L
L
Will
the
next
caller,
with
the
last
three
digits
of
836,
please
slowly
state
and
spell
your
name
for
the
record.
You
can
unmute
yourself
by
pressing
star
six,
if
you're
having
trouble-
and
you
may
begin
now.
K
K
K
An
important
component
of
reaching
those
goals
is
energy,
still
storage,
which
goes
hand
in
hand
with
solar
technology.
Cias
is
coming
in
front
of
this
bill
today.
In
the
neutral
position
we
share
senators,
senator
lang's
passion
to
expand
solar
and
storage
to
meet
nevada's
clean
energy
goals
with
safety
being
the
number
one
priority
see
a
member
companies
complete
a
number
of
trainings
and
certification
programs.
K
We
are
willing
to
learn
more
but
are
concerned
a
little
bit
about
the
certification
program
with
the
bill's
amendment.
Cia
members
are
reviewing
reviewing
the
amendments
and
feedback
from
the
contractor's
board
and
want
to
thank
senator
lang
and
the
stakeholders
involved.
See
a
member
of
companies
are
not
as
familiar
with
the
training
certification
as
outlined
in
the
bill,
but
look
forward
to
learning
more.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
trainings
are
available
to
meet
the
demand
and
that
employees
can
be
trained
safely
and
specific
to
individual
systems
that
companies
provide.
K
K
L
S
We
represent
a
diverse
group
of
companies
involved
in
deploying
energy
storage
systems
and
our
members
work
with
all
types
of
energy
storage
technologies,
including,
of
course,
the
lithium-ion
batteries.
We
are
testifying
today
neutral
on
this
bill.
We
certainly,
as
others,
commend
senator
lang
for
bringing
this
forward
and
for
the
interest
in
energy
storage
and
we
support
target
setting
for
energy
storage.
S
Recently,
the
energy
storage
working
group
composed
of
members
across
our
diverse
association
developed
a
program
model
for
energy
storage,
target
design
which
we've
published
on
our
website
and
are
happy
to
share
with
the
with
the
sponsors
we
generally
align
ourselves
with
the
testimony
from
sia
and
share
the
the
general
concerns
about
certification
projects.
S
S
Energy
storage
standards
are
continually
evolving
to
incorporate
a
rapidly
expanding
body
of
industry,
operational
experience
and
have
been
updated
over
the
past
three
years
and
and
before
that,
and
certainly
several
folks
that
have
mentioned
the
national
fire
protector
protection,
standard
association,
standard
855
as
well
as
ul-950
as
really
critical.
Recent
safety
standards
for
battery
storage,
ensuring
safety
is
a
constant,
ongoing
process.
S
The
industry
has
continued
to
improve
and
refine
safety
standards
and
practices
and
incorporating
lessons
learned
from
from
events,
including
the
event
that
has
been
referenced
in
arizona
and
adopting
updated
safety
codes
and
standards.
S
In
conclusion,
safety
is
a
top
priority
for
the
energy
storage
industry
and
we're
eager
to
continue
to
to
working
with
the
stakeholders.
Senator
lang,
members
of
the
committee
to
ensure
that
nevada
achieves
aggressive
energy
storage
goals
while
ensuring
the
safety
and
quality
and
performance
of
energy
storage
systems.
And
thank
you
and
thank
you,
chair,
harris
and,
and
vice
dear
brooks,
for
the
opportunity.
L
A
Okay,
thank
you
so
much
I'll
quickly
turn
it
back
over
to
you
senator
lang.
If
you'd
like
to
make
any
closing
comments
before
we
close
the
hearing.
B
Thank
you
so
much.
I
just
want
to
start
by
thanking
mr
stern,
mr
adler
and
mr
johnston
for
being
on
and
helping
me
present
this
bill.
B
I
would
just
remind
the
committee
that
we're
not
trying
to
be
prescriptive
here,
which
is
why
we
said:
let's
wait
till
we
get
the
irp
and
then
make
our
decisions
based
on
a
study
about
nevada,
and
so
I
look
forward
to
doing
that
and
we
also
look
forward
to
working
with
stakeholders
on
section
five
to
address
any
concerns
people
might
have
and
getting
this
build
a
work
session.
So
thank
you
so
much
and
have
a
great
day.
A
J
A
All
right
good
afternoon,
vice
chair,
brooks
and
committee
members,
I'm
dallas
harris
representing
senate
district
11
in
clark
county,
I'm
here
to
present
senate
bill
387,
which
deals
with
the
regulation
of
interstate
calling
services
for
inmates
before
going
over
the
specifics
of
387
I'd
like
to
briefly
explain
why.
I
believe
this
is
an
important
bill,
important
for
us
to
pass
this
bill
for
many
years.
Inmate
calling
services,
both
interstate
and
interest
rates,
were
unregulated
and
perhaps
not
surprising.
A
Since
then,
the
price
of
inmate
calls
has
become
a
national
issue
and
in
2014
the
federal
communications
commission
stepped
in
to
cap.
The
cost
of
interstate
calls,
however,
the
fcc
lacked
jurisdiction
to
regulate
interest
state
calls
which
make
up
80
percent
of
the
calls
from
prisons
or
jails
due
to
mergers.
There
are
fewer
companies
offering
inmate
calling
services,
and
this
lack
of
composition
has
exacerbated
the
problem.
A
A
Despite
the
benefits
of
fostering
family
contact.
At
least,
one
survey
found
that
nearly
70
percent
of
inmate
respondents
reported
phone
calls
cost
as
a
key
obstacle
to
keeping
in
touch,
and
one
third
went
into
debt
to
make
phone
calls.
A
A
A
A
Finally,
section
5
requires
an
annual
review
of
the
rate
caps
and
revisions
as
warranted
sections
6
through
10
are
conforming
provisions.
A
I'll
know
for
the
committee
that
we
have
a
an
amendment
posted
on
nellis,
it's
a
it's,
a
very
small
additional
bit
of
language
that
would
allow
the
public
utility
commission
to
make
sure
that
these
providers
are
not
just
in
line
with
the
rate
cap,
but
any
other
provisions
that
they
may
put
in
place
pursuant
to
the
rulemaking.
A
In
section
five
with
me
vice
chair,
brooks
and
committee
members,
I
have
de
bria
terwilliger
from
the
public
utilities
commission,
who
has
been
instrumental
in
working
on
this
bill
with
me,
and
I
would
invite
her
to
make
a
few
comments
at
this
time.
E
Thank
you,
chair
harris
and
thank
you,
members
of
the
committee
on
growth
and
infrastructure.
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
work
with
chair
harris
on
this
important
piece
of
legislation
and
I'm
happy
to
walk
through
any
or
address
any
questions
that
you
might
have
or
that
chair
harris
might
direct
me
to
answer
chair
harris
covered
the
scope
of
the
bill.
E
You
know
the
the
overall
intent
is
is
to
ensure
that
we're
aligning
ourselves
for
inter-state
rates
which,
as
chair
harris
pointed
out,
the
fcc's
jurisdiction
does
not
reach
intra-state
rates
and
over
80
percent
of
inmate
calls
are
interested
in
nature,
and
so
we
want
to
align
ourselves
with
the
fcc
to
ensure
that
there
are
rate
caps
and
other
limitations
in
place
to
provide
for
just
and
reasonable
inmate
calling
services
for
the
inmates
and
their
families
chair
harris.
I'm
happy
to
assist
with
any
questions
that
you
might
have.
A
Thank
you
so
much
vice
chair
brooks
we'll
submit
ourselves
to
any
questions.
The
committee
may
have
at
this
time.
J
Thank
you
senator
harris.
Thank
you.
Miss
toriger
good,
to
see
you.
It's
been
a
while
since
we've
worked
together
in
in
the
legislature,
but
I
think
I
have
a
question
here
from
senator
pickard.
F
Thank
you,
mr
rice,
chair
just
a
couple
of
quick
questions,
because
I
my
initial
response
when
I
first
read
this
bill
was
why
listening
to
the
to
senator
harris's
introduction,
I
think
okay,
that's.
Why
and
but
there's
always
the
other
side
of
the
coin,
and
so
you
know,
as
I'm
processing
this
in
my
head,
I'm
thinking
well,
why
do
they
charge
what
they
charge
today?
F
Are
they
you
know,
because
this
is
obviously
a
separate
system
from
the
correctional
facility
system,
which
makes
all
the
sense
in
the
world
we
don't
want
to
give
them
the
same
system.
So
they've
got
certain
hard
costs,
both
installation
maintenance,
those
sorts
of
things
that
they've
got
to
cover
and
they
probably
don't
have
the
same
kind
of
usage
that
say
you
or
I
would
have
with
one
of
our
lines
where
we're
spreading
that
out
over
time.
So
is
there
any
rash
now
behind
the
fees
that
they
charge?
F
Or
is
this
arbitrary
like
what
we've
seen
in
other
contexts
where
it's
you
know
if
it's
in
their
account
they're
going
to
take
it
kind
of
approach?
Can
you
explain
why
they
charge
what
they
charge?
I
assume
they're
not
here
in
support
of
this
bill.
A
Most
of
our
nevada
department
of
correction
facilities
are
already
under
the
cap
of
of
the
fcc
rate,
and
so
there
are
a
few
providers
who
are
charging
what
they
can
not
just
because
it's
costing
them
a
certain
amount
to
provide
the
service.
So
I
won't
venture
to
to
you
know,
give
anybody
a
bad
name
as
to
what
it
is,
but
I
I
can
say
it's
not
related
to
the
cost
of
of
providing
a
phone
call.
The
cost
of
a
minute
for
the
company.
A
I'll
also
say
that,
under
this
structure,
any
company
would
be
able
to
go
to
the
public
utilities,
commission
and
explain.
This
is
how
much
our
infrastructure
cost
costs.
This
is
how
much
it
cost
for
us
to
deliver
the
service.
Here's
the
rate
we
are
proposing
in
order
to
make
sure
that
those
rates
are
reasonable.
I
would
suggest,
however,
this
is
a
classic
example
of
of
rent
seeking
by
by
a
few.
F
Monopolies
all
right-
I
don't
know
if
mr
torilliger
wants
to
chime
in,
but
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
we
understand-
and
I
assume
you've
not
talked
to
them
about
or
asked
them
to
justify
for
purposes
of
this
hearing
what
their
billing
practices
are,
but
if
they
didn't
shame
on
them,
this
is
an
existential
problem,
or
if
this
is
an
existential
problem,
you
would
expect
them
to
step
up,
maybe
we'll
hear
from
them
in
opposition.
F
But
I
would
like
to
at
some
point
explore
that
a
little
bit
and
see
what's
behind
the
billing.
Is
it
truly
arbitrary
and
and
unrelated
to
the
cost
of
delivering
the
service
or
if
they
have
some
justification?
I
think
that
would
be
great
to
get
on
the
record.
A
And
and
senator
pickard
I'll
just
I'll
say
for
the
record,
I
think
this
this
bill
allows
them
to
put
forward
an
application
and
justify
those
rates,
and
the
public
utilities,
commission
is
is
very
well
versed
in
looking
at
the
cost
of
infrastructure
and
delivering
a
service
and
allowing
for
just
and
reasonable
rates,
and
so
this
would
not
preclude
their
opportunity
to
provide
that
justification
and,
in
fact
would
require
them
to
do
so
where,
where
they
don't
right
arm
it
now.
F
J
Thank
you,
chair
harris
and
thank
you
for
the
question.
Senator
picker
do
any
of
the
other
committee
members
have
any
questions
on
this
senate
bill
for
chair
harris
or
miss
twigler
williger.
Excuse
me.
J
L
L
K
In
addition
to
the
points
made
by
senator
harris,
I'd
like
to
add
three
pieces
of
context,
the
first
piece
is
that,
because
of
kovid
jails
and
prisons
have
mostly
ended
in
person
visitation,
so
these
phone
calls
are
literally
the
only
way
that
a
parent
can
stay
in
contact
with
their
child.
That
spouses
can
keep
in
contact
with
each
other,
and
an
elderly
parent
can
check
in
on
their
kid.
So
this
is
vital
that
this
be
accessible.
K
K
K
As
you
may
know,
the
henderson
municipal
jail
and
other
places
house,
undocumented
people
and
those
undocumented
people
have
to
use
these
same
phone
calling
programs.
So
this
isn't
just
a
problem
for
people
who
are
doing
crimes.
It's
a
people
for
undocumented
it's
a
problem
for
undocumented
people.
This
is
overall,
a
very
unjust
situation.
K
L
L
J
Thank
you.
Can
you
see
if
we
have
anyone
on
the
line
who
wants
to
testify
in
the
neutral
position
on
senebil
387.
J
Thank
you
so
see
that
we
have
no
callers
senator
harris.
If
you
wanted
to
make
any
closing
statements
on
the
bill.
A
Thank
you
so
much
vice
chair
brooks
just
briefly.
I
want
all
the
committee
members
to
throw
your
your
minds
back
way
way
back.
Where
minutes
were
the
driver
of
your
phone
call
of
your
of
your
cell
phone
bill
right
where
you
were
capped
at
3
000
minutes,
and
then
you
could
add
your
five
favorite
friends
and
have
them
kind
of
zero
rated
for
the
purpose
of
getting
at
your
minutes.
We
have
unlimited
minute
use
today,
and
the
key
now
is:
is
data
and
there's
a
reason
for
that?
A
It's
because
the
cost
of
of
delivering
a
minute
of
voice
phone
calls
is
so
low
that
it
no
longer
makes
sense
to
to
tie
the
business
model
to
that,
and
so
take
that
in
mind
and
think
about
what
it's
like
for
a
interstate
phone
call
to
cost
more
than
a
long
distance
phone
call
in
2021.
A
That's
something!
We've
got
to
rectify,
especially
for
those
who
who
need
to
stay
in
contact
with
their
family,
for
benefits
to
themselves
and
to
society.
For
those
who
we
know,
aren't
making
much
money.
So
with
that
I'll
I'll.
Leave
that
on
the
table
and
close
with
that
thanks
so
much
vice
chair
brooks.
J
Thank
you,
chair
harris
and
so
we'll
close.
The
hearing
on
senate
bill
senate
bill,
387
and
I'll
turn
it
right
back
over
to
you
chair,
harrison.
A
L
L
A
A
Adjourn
all
right,
seeing
none
I'd
just
like
to
thank
the
committee
members
for
hanging
in
there.
I
think
four
bills
is
the
most
we've
heard
in
one
hearing.
We
got
it
done
in
just
a
little
over
two
hours,
so
I
appreciate
everyone
coming
sticking
through
the
meeting
arriving
on
time
and
being
great
colleagues,
our
next
meeting
will
be
on
march
31st
at
3
30
pm.
Until
then,
we
are
adjourned
have
a
good
evening.