Next Generation Shell Weekly Meetings, 9 Jan 2022

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From YouTube: NGS weekly meeting #13 - 2022-01-09

Description

Project website - https://ngs-lang.org/

Run NGS in AWS Lambda - https://github.com/ngs-lang/ngs-aws-lambda

Builds for Red Hat based distros - https://github.com/ngs-lang/ngs/pull/524

Ninja build issue - https://github.com/ngs-lang/ngs/issues/518

Namespace issue - https://github.com/ngs-lang/ngs/issues/516

A

Hello, welcome to ngs weekly meeting uh ngs stands for next generation. Shell weekly meetings are about recent progress in future plans. um Here we are, we have ricardo today contributor, uh I'm elia uh the author of the project.

A

Let's start uh record, I want to go first. I want me to go first.

B

uh Go first, I know you have a lot of things.

A

uh Not a lot but okay, some! So, um let's uh I'll share my screen and we'll see some of the things I was working on: share screen, firefox, okay, so milestones.

A

Zero to fourteen uh and.

B

A

B

There are milestones yay.

A

There are yeah we have them like for at least half a year, um not the same milestones, all the time so um zero to fourteen it's. uh We can view it in in two different uh lights. uh We can see it as finished, because uh ngs can now run on lambda.

A

um Also somehow, in this uh this milestone, uh there was fix for documentation. I did that.

A

The thing is that, right now, when the gsr runs as aws lambda, it doesn't have the aws cli.

B

A

That means that the functionality is very limited, um we'll get there at some point in time. I think you'll have some separate layer with aws cli tools. Ideally, we will just find a layer that.

B

I published so you mean that ngs is there, you can run ngs clips, but aws cli is not installed yeah. So if you need to talk to aws, you can.

A

So you can do like simple things like you know, hello, world, http response that works. If you do need some processing on sns, that will work, but nothing serious, okay, so another thing: okay, lambda, tr, documentation. Okay, let's go into recent.

A

So another thing that I was working on. I just started and I started because it bothers me not because it's in the milestone uh when the js loads, a file, um the things defined in the file are loaded into global namespace and that's not how you're supposed to do it. It's supposed to be the namespace of the file.

B

A

I know gs like in python, like I don't know pretty much anywhere, and it was my mistake that I didn't do it earlier, because I was focusing actually on standard library and on files and standard library loads, and there is no need for that there and I was focused too much on the on that and not uh so much on the real scripts that actually do need this feature. So I started the a bit reorganizing c code.

A

It's um it will take some time, it's not as simple as it sounds um so that another thing I'm just looking at my nose. So since uh the milestones we we have this mustang covered. That means we can release the next version uh sometime soon, like I know this week next week um back a moment.

A

Okay. So in my spare time, which I had a bit, I watched a video about cmake and uh and therefore we have this issue here.

A

So our cmake doesn't work with a ninja build system, for example, so a bit of background c make c make can generate, make file right and then you use make to actually compile the program to build the program.

A

Well, cmake actually can generate not only make files but also other files for other build systems, and one of them, which apparently is pretty popular, is pidgin and we have something in our cmake which does not allow that, and I would like to fix that. Even if you don't use uh ninja by the way, we also need to fix our documentation and all that, because after uh cmake generates the make files you're not supposed to run, make you supposed to run cmake.

A

There's this build and that's because if you swap as the underlying build system right, you want the same command to build your stuff. So that's what I learned about make.

B

A

B

Should we, how should we handle these shows? Should we actively fix everything, or should we wait for someone to complain that it doesn't work on this case and then we fix it.

A

Well, the cmake thing. I think we should fix it. It's not that much work and I will feel much better that we can compile with whatever we want by the way. Ninja is supposed to be much faster than make. I'm not sure that we'll feel that on project of our size, but still it's it's nice to know that we did.

A

We did this correctly. Okay,.

B

A

Since it's not that much work, then I think we should do it um another thing. I was thinking, of course, about ui and about how how we'll start this and and for that.

A

For ngs to be able to communicate, for example, with the browser, I guess there will be something in the middle, like I don't know, nginx or envoy, or some script in node.js, which will handle the http request and transform them into something because writing http server and c. That's not what I would like to do and also writing http server and ngs. It's not what I would like to do. So uh I think there should be some simple protocol and then have some kind of adapter of a proxy okay.

A

So I started thinking about this and.

A

In general, there will be some part and then just which will listen on socket. I don't know if it's a unique socket, tcp socket or something like that, and- um and that means we already need to get into this. uh You know how we handle io in ngs in the uh general sense, and I have read again about the neti model and I think we should adopt that model.

A

The name of the pattern is actually intercepting filter.

A

That means that you have your stuff organized in layers and each of the layer does something, um and it can either forward the request to the next layer or answer by itself.

A

So this is actually very uh popular layout.

A

For example, that's how express.js works right, you have can have your middleware and middleware is another implementation of interceptor filter right, because any request that you can have middleware can actually answer that if it decides that it's uh you know should be answered there. For example, authentication right you can, you know in your middleware to handle authentication and that's why it's intercepting, because any layer in the middle can decide that it actually handles the request and not forwards. The request to the next layer, um so this is from my side here- you go ricardo.

B

Okay, so from my sides, yeah, although there were holidays, there was not a lot of time to do anything but.

A

B

But I'm happy that I finished that I finished to build the build task for added for the I'm trying to I'm not sure. If I'm sharing that I think warning she make as what.

B

I think I am wait. Let me just you were sharing the github action, which was a build, ah so I was sharing the writing. Did I'm getting a bit messed here with the browser just a second there we go just opening it correctly, okay, so this one so now you can see all right. Okay,.

A

B

So this is the latest the latest build of this branch. Okay, so we now have like the normal ubuntu debians, but now we have fedora, you know: fedora 34, fedora, 35, amazon, linux, 2, centos, 8 and then centos, seven somewhere here and still the macos. So now we have a bunch of them, okay.

B

So a lot of more things that built this task was the 507 that is related to what you know the build for yum, for you know, systems based on yum right and that's why this was added, and currently I was also adding a new thing to the readme to the readme. It's still not there wait. It's still not on depth. It's here on this branch so that we can see the so in the build section. Okay, now we have a table. Okay, that explains you.

B

What is tested currently, oh good, on these systems, so currently, where yeah we are, uh I'm still based. You know on the old testing that we have. Maybe we want to increase to bump these versions up uh to the latest or not uh but yeah. So this is what's currently being tested, and here we have a more sane way of seeing it, okay, so yeah, so we basically test 9, 10 and 11 of gcc and 910 of 11 of clank, with some exceptions, for instance on debian.

B

There is no package for gcc 11 on the default apt and not for clank10. So we don't test these ones for debian in particular. But since you know we test them also, they have.

A

Yeah, I don't know why the clunk.

B

Doesn't exist, you know if you do apt, install on db and eleven right. If you tweet install clunk 10, it doesn't exist, you do it.

A

You do 9 and 11, it exists.

B

You know, but then, though, yeah.

A

Don't have like ceiling at all.

B

ah No, I didn't, I didn't implement that part yet on.

A

B

Silence, uh actually here yes on this level, yes, but I implemented with the default one. So uh these these initial ones are with the specific versions, so the build action is actually doing. You know build with this specific version. Okay, on these ones, I just use the default version. It comes with the system, so I didn't you know, say you know: yum installed this particular version right. I just said yeah, mr gcc and yeah mr and that's it.

B

You know, I think, for most of the systems, that's what we want to go to, because it's a lot of work. You know having to build on all the possible versions and I guess for most systems. What we need to just just you know be sure, is that it works with the default one that comes with the system, yeah right and that's what I started doing here for the um parts on the centos. I actually went to the trouble of doing it. You know for all of them, but yeah centos, eight.

B

There is also one that does with default. So if we go back there, centos 8, I could do it with default. Centos 7. I couldn't why, because gcc is very old on centos seven yeah.

A

It's like four something: four, nine, four, eight.

B

Yeah 4.8, I think we need the minimum. I think it's seven or six that we need right. uh I don't know, but it's about that. So I know that with 4.8 it doesn't work, it simply doesn't work so and here, for instance, on amazon linux, you see we use 7.3 as a default. That works fine.

A

B

But yeah you know we can improve now on this, uh but also you know we need to decide on when do we stop right or which.

A

Works. Fine, we test.

B

Yeah so, for instance, here you know, we are also testing clank, 12 and 13, because it comes with the system and to be fair. You know fedora at least has everything good. You know by default nice, not like centos, that you have to go around things and do some.

A

B

So yeah, so that's that's how it is and that's why it looks like this okay. So, for instance, you see that centos eight here is testing the default one. I still need to add this one to the list. The default clanger the default gcc, but these ones are build jobs that are special just for centos 8 and set of seven that test more versions, I'm not sure. If it's worth for centos eight, I actually probably we should remove this centos it tests on particular.

A

Versions because.

B

The default compiler works. Fine, you know. So you know. If the default compiler works, fine, we should go to the trouble of installing a different compiler version. uh I.

A

Don't know we need to.

B

Think about this, but it does sound reasonable yeah. It's like you know. We should make like a rule right. If the system, the default compilers of the system, compile well the compile well ngs, then we just use the default ones, because that's what most of the people will use and if someone installs a specific particular version, it's because it's a higher version and they do it on purpose right or if they use a lower version, then you know we cannot run on that. Yet.

B

Unfortunately, but yeah.

A

We should try.

B

To diminish because you know it starts to get big very fast, this kind of thing look at this: it's a lot of lot of jobs already.

A

B

A

You solved the issue that we had this uh map map, something.

B

Yes, yes, that's that's. I followed follow following your line. Your guidelines there on.

A

The center seven.

B

Yeah, it worked fine, you see it's for all the three compilers so on setos7, because the default compilers don't work, then we should keep. You know more testing on that right, so the by default. Let's try to do it like this. If the default compilers work, fine, we just test we default once. If not, then we go to the trouble of making. You know extra installations and extra tests with the newer compilers there.

B

Just to make sure and like this you know we should cover.

A

It sounds reasonable. I need.

B

To think about.

A

B

Yeah so think about this, and let me know but um about this, so we will not forget. I can talk in the same issue because it's still not not closed the.

A

B

Yeah yeah, but so you want to have a more general one. Yes, then fine, so I will open then the pull request about that uh into the dev branch yep, and then we can make.

A

Sure you merge the dev branch before you do the pull request. Yes,.

B

And then we can, we can at least close that one and then I I open a more general issue about how we should handle. You know this testing or when is it enough? You know policy the policy yeah, the test policy there. So that's you know because it gets to a point. You know it's like. What's the point of testing gcc 9 on all the systems that exist in the world, you know yeah.

A

It probably should be like every system will have their own default one, but then we have one. I don't know ubuntu, for example, and we'll test different gccs, just to make sure that we are like okay forward.

B

Yeah and on centos 7 that you know the default compiler sucks, then you know we can also do extra tests there. You know with the more compilers, let's say.

A

B

So, in the cases where we need to do something you know, then we care about doing it more. I guess, okay, what.

A

B

But the good news is that it works everywhere, yeah now good and by the way it was just not you know, github actions. I also had to change a bit to the install scripts, but you will see you will see on the pull request. I'll see it in the pull request here.

B

Okay, anything.

A

B

I guess about the pull requests that are opened well.

A

Yeah need to get there.

B

Yeah, so I'm still waiting for your feedback. I guess on yeah here your feedback, it's appreciated, yeah and outside from that. I guess that's it from my side. By the way, I saw also that you opened some tasks on the on the aws aws.

B

How do you call it yeah.

A

Lambda yeah lambda.

B

Layer yeah and I need to still look into that. There was.

A

B

About the build there, I think I didn't really understood, but I will take that offline with you.

A

While flying you have issues you can we can, we should communicate there in these issues.

B

Yeah, okay, uh in the issues. Well, I'm when I mean offline is not in the meeting right.

A

ah Okay, yes, okay,.

B

Yeah, that's it from my side.

A

Okay, cool, then, uh then we are done for today. Also my cat won't sing and uh it would be nice to finish with the cat. Okay like and subscribe. As I say, okay see you bye.