►
Description
In this lecture, Domen will talk about Nix Is Going Mainstream, in their own words: 4 years after my last talk on how to get Nix mainstream, let's assess the state of where we are today.
Special thanks to the NLnet Foundation, the European Commission, the NixOS Foundation, and Tweag for making this event a reality!
The continued discussion for the lecture series is happening over here:
https://matrix.to/#/#son2022-lectures:matrix.org
More information about the Summer of Nix can be found on the website:
https://summer.nixos.org
B
B
B
So
what
the
first
book
is
men,
search
for
meaning,
which
which
kind
of
talks
about
psychology
of
human
motivation
and
and
it
talks
about
the
holocaust
and
how
people
some
people
survived
and
some
didn't
and
what
was
the
kind
of
the
psychological
difference
coming
in
those
people's
minds
going
through
through
the
great
suffering
and
and
a
lot
of
our
today's
psychology?
Well,
it's
kind
of
like
a
niche
well
as
a
part
of
psychology.
That's
that
brought
us
a
lot
of
interesting
bits
and
and
talks
about.
B
Then,
in
very
early
adopter
stage
and
a
lot
of
problems,
we
were
having
are
very
well
described
in
this
book
as
without
talking
about
nick
specifically,
but
just
talking
about
technology
and
adoption,
so
yeah
listening
to
these
books,
while
driving
through
thailand
inspired
me
to
to
to
go
on
this
quest,
and
also
I
wanted
to
give
this
talk
every
year,
but
well
how
it
happened.
So
here
we
are
three
four
years
later,
depending
on
how
you
count.
B
So
I
just
want
to
go
right
in
if
you
look
at.
If
you
look
at
how
well
one
of
the
ways
how
kind
of
like
you
know,
innovation
or
evolution,
went,
we
went
to
operating
systems
to
vms
and
then
containers
happened,
and
you
know
we're
kind
of
kind
of.
If
you
look
at
this
path,
I
think
we
we're
kind
of
going
more
gradua
granule.
B
If,
if
we
zoom
into
the
containers
evolution,
this
is
very,
very
simplified
and
and
also
a
bit
wrong,
but
just
for
the
sake
of
this
presentation
we
kind
of
started
with
alex
c,
which
was
kind
of
like
one
of
the
first
sane
but
very
low
level
interfaces,
and
then
docker
came
as
a
company
who
kind
of
said.
Okay
alex
use
great
technology
very
well
designed,
but
we
need
a
nice
interface.
B
We
need
something
simple:
we
need
something
that
we
can
kind
of
give
to
two
thousand
ten
thousand
millions
of
developers
and
after
that
kubernetes
kind
of
came
and
took
the
technology
and
built
a
lot
of
the
stuff.
On
top
of
what
docker
brought
us
again
simplified
view,
but-
and
I
I
think
I
think
if
we
look
at
nick's-
I
see
a
lot
of
similarities,
especially
reading
the
crossing
the
chasm
book.
B
It's
kind
of
like
this
very
solid
foundation
that
we
have,
but
there's
like
this
docker
bit
missing
and
a
lot
of
the
infrastructure,
a
lot
of
the
a
lot
of
the
developer
experience
missing
and-
and
I
think
this
is
kind
of
like
the
transition
period,
where
right
now
I'll
talk
later
about.
You
know
what
I
think
is
happening.
What
I
think
will
happen,
but
my
point
of
this
talk
will
be
that
this
transition
period
is
in
full
swing
and
it's
gonna.
I'm
really
excited
to
see
how
it
will
play
out.
B
And
it's
going
to
be
interesting
to
see
the
numbers
next
year
and
to
compare
if
this,
this
number
will
be
as
as
big
as
it
is.
So
I
think
this
is
you
know
one
of
the
evidences.
We
can
collect
to
say
that
that
people
are
coming
into
nix
and
our
we've
seen
in
the
previous
year
talks
about
pull
request
growth,
github
use
growth.
B
B
And
different
lineage
distributions,
and
so
on
and
kind
of,
like
the
last
thing
that
I
notice
is
well.
There
are
many
beats
to
this
survey,
but
we,
you
know
this
could
be
probably
a
separate
talk,
but
is
that
you
know
27
percent
of
nick's
users
do
use
mac
os
as
their
main
os
and
and
if
you
compare
that
to
the
statistics
of
like
professional
developers,
it's
quite
low.
B
I
want,
I
think
it's
gonna
take
a
few
hours
and
I
follow
something
I
I
find
this
some
resource
and
I
kind
of
achieve
that
and
that's
currently
just
not
possible.
It
makes
the
learning
curve
is,
is
chaotic
and
long
and
I'll
talk
about
it
later,
and
this
is
what's
missing.
On
the
other
hand,
we
also
see
this.
B
I
see
this
connection
with
docker,
where
it's
a
lot
of
effort
actually
to
to
implement
this,
to,
to
put
a
lot
of
take
a
lot
of
thought
into
how
developer
experience
looks
to
think
about
the
use
cases
that
people
have.
The
developers
have
and
then
kind
of
go
from
from
that.
You
know
people's
point
of
view
back
to
the
tooling
and
kind
of
like
crafter.
B
B
Kind
of
nice
to
have
it
and
we've
been
kind
of
using
it
in
different
ways,
but
there's
a
lot
more
out
there
that
I
think
mix
could
provide.
If
you
think
about
docker
compose,
for
example,
this
could
be
implemented
with
nyx
much
better
way.
In
my
opinion,
or
four
man
is
something
that
I
personally
use.
B
But
on
the
other
hand,
you
I
will
show
some
examples
for
the
container
world,
which
makes
a
lot
of
sense,
because
nyx
is
a
really
good
tool
to
to
build
container
to
containers
and
we
kind
of
see
these
two
bits
actually
joining
because
on
one
hand,
containers
provide
really
good
run
time.
Isolation
and
tooling,
under
the
hand,
mix,
provides
this.
B
This
really
really
sane
way
of
building
things.
So
red
bullet
has
this
blog
pose
and
they're
using
nyx
quite
a
bit.
So
they
have
this
blog
post,
how
they
went
from
50
languages
to
supporting,
basically
all
of
them,
because
nexus
mixed
packages
is
one
of
the
biggest
collection
of
language
language
support
out
there
and
they're
a
big
proponent
of
nate.
They
have
donated
to
nixon
and
they're
very
loud
about
it
and
very
proud,
and
you
know
we're
very
thankful
for
them.
C
B
How
they're
called
I
always
forget,
but
the
heroku
bills,
the
kuruka
packs
and
and
kind
of
do
the
same,
but
with
nick's
and
and
tucker,
and
it's
pretty
cool
idea
which
says:
okay,
we're
gonna
have
this
kind
of
like
auto
magic
detection.
That's
how
I
understand
it
that
will
figure
out
what
language
you're
using
based
on
that
language
will
provide
you
the
same
things
that
you
can
then
build
your
language.
B
You
know
be
that
ruby
python,
whatever
language
you
have-
and
this
is
done
by
rails
way-
guys
which
are
kind
of
like
the
the
new
heroku
platform,
and
then
we
see
flyo
kind
of
adopted
that
very
recently.
This
was
just
announced
under
this
course
10
days
ago,
that
you
can
kind
of
use
these
mix
max
instead
of
the
heroku
ones.
B
So
I
think
the
piece
that's
missing
here
is
kind
of
uniform
interface
to
configure
any
language.
So
when
I,
whether
I'm
using
python
rust
haskell
whatever
java
the
interface
to
kind
of
like
initiate
a
language,
should
be
kind
of
the
same
because,
right
now,
when
you
use
mixed
packages,
every
language
has
a
different
interface,
and
this
creates
a
lot
of
cognitive
load.
So
dream
techniques
is
one
attempt
at
this.
I
don't
know
of
any
others.
Besides
these
containers
approaches
here
and
I
think
there's
there's
like
a
lot
of
there's
a
big.
B
There
is
a
big
thing
there
that
that
would,
if
we
manage
to
solve
this
part,
we
will.
We
will
be
able
to
bring
links
to
a
lot
of
people
a
lot
of
teams
and
and
show
its
power.
How
do
we
do
that?
It's
it's
a
big
question.
I
I
I
want
to
see
drench
nicks
to
succeed
and
I,
I
think,
there's
a
lot
of
things
to
be
improved,
but
let's
see
what
what
the
future
brings
on
this
side.
B
B
If
we
want
to
do
it
properly,
which
is
through
the
open
source
packaging,
it's
almost
done.
I
hope
it
will
be
done
very
soon.
I
think
80
90
percent
of
the
work
has
been
done,
but
let's
see-
and
if
you
want
to
help
this,
if
you
have
a
company-
and
you
want
to
help
this
effort-
that's
great
if
you're
a
developer
and
you
want
to
do
a
work
on
macos.
Please
also.
B
Let
me
know
this
is
kind
of
like
it's
really
hard
to
distribute
these
funds,
but
the
idea
is
to
really
kind
of
just
fund
the
effort
and
try
to
identify
what
are
the
the
biggest
issues
surrounding
macklins
and
we
have,
I
think
about.
A
year
ago
we
started
the
darwin
maintainers
team,
which
consists
about
40
50
people
right
now,
there's
just
the
github
issue
link
right
now,
but
if
you
want
to
join
and
help
maintain
mac
os
darwin
packages,
that's
the
way
to
do
it.
B
B
So
it's
going
to
be
interesting
to
see
how
this
list
grows.
There's
there's
more
things
out
there,
but
I
didn't
want
to
list
everything
that
this
has
just
recently
started
so
yeah.
This
is
what
we
have
right
now
on
the
documentation
side.
This
might
seem
a
bit
overwhelming
what's
happening,
but
I
think
really
big
changes
are
happening,
which
are
mostly
important
for
fundamental
shift
again
of
mindset
of
how
we
look
at
documentation
in
the
mix
world
which
always
at
any
open
source
project
have
been,
has
been
hard
topic.
B
Side,
that
is
very
opinionated.
It's
gonna
probably
become
less
opinionated
in
the
future,
a
lot
of
things
that
seem
to
be
very
opinionated
back
then
or
not
anymore,
and
it's
a
collection
of
tutorials
and
guides
how
to
get
started
with
nyx,
and
this
is
something
we've
been
missing
in
the
past
and
yeah.
B
You
know
static
and
raspberry,
pi
cross,
compiling
setting
up
developing
environments
and
so
on,
so
on
and
well
shortly.
Happily
later,
we
we
had
a
three
contributes:
matthew,
contributed
the
rfc
to
replace
stock
book
with
markdown,
which
has
been
great,
and
I
think
that
has
lowered
the
barrier.
I
myself
was
very
frustrated
with
that
book.
B
How
we
are
I'm
trying
to
slowly
focus
on
flattering
the
learning
curve
and
and
seeing
you
know
talking
to
to
people
who
are
starting
with
nics
and
trying
to
understand
the
problems
behind
that
and
what
we
need
to
do
as
a
community
to
kind
of
reduce
these
barriers
and
kind
of.
I
have
this
phrase
where
I
say:
common
knowledge
are
things
that
you
know.
B
Everybody
knows
except
you,
and
this
is
kind
of
the
problem
that
I
think
we
need
to
solve
in
x
and
try
to
put
everything
down
so
that
others
can
kind
of
follow
that
that
path
without
being
part
of
the
asking
around
and
doing
it
the
hard
way.
So
I
can
say
more
about
this,
but
valentin
has
started
an
excellent
mix.
Language
tutorial.
We
also
have
a
really
great
architectural
overview
started
by
john
erickson.
B
That
goes
into
like
the
concept
behind
links,
which
is
nice
to
to
show
to
your
co-workers,
how
thing
how
nyx
really
works
and
on
both
these
of
these.
This
is
just
the
initial
version.
So
everyone
is
extremely
welcome
to
I'm
speaking
the
name
of
valentin
and
john,
but
I
think
they
will
agree
to
to
contribute
back
to
contribute
back.
B
So
so
I
think
I
cannot
speak
in
the
name
of
the
nexus
foundation,
but
as
a
board
member
on
this,
this
is
my
opinion
that
first
I'm
extremely
happy.
We
managed
to
to
get
five
people
from
different
companies.
This
will
kind
of
make
sure
that
the
interests
are
aligned
between
the
companies
and
that
we
are
like
moving
in
the
same
direction
without
someone
having
too
much
of
influence,
and
we
will
try
our
best
to
present
the
community
and
a
very
common
question
that
we
had
was
like.
B
B
But
in
the
beginning,
we've
we
discussed
about
this
quite
a
bit
and
we
figured
out
that
the
people
who
are
who
have
high
stakes
enix
are
demo
the
ones
that
are
currently
going
to
be
the
most
involved
in
this
process,
because
there's
a
lot
of
work
to
be
done
to
even
bootstrap
the
foundation
properly
and
so
on,
probably
talk
whatever,
but
just
something
to
to
keep
an
eye
on,
and
I
think
for
communities.
Science
what's
really
important
here
is
that
we,
you
know,
we
hear
your
feedback
and
what
you
would
like.
B
C
B
This
is
this,
I
think,
will
will
really
improve,
as
I
said
before.
Just
you
know,
organization
of
nixcon
and
communication
with
communities.
So
I'm
really
excited
about
this
part
and
speaking
of
nisscon,
it's
happening
this
year
after
three
games.
I
think
that
was
an
online
edition,
but
everyone
kind
of
talking
to
people.
Everyone
said
it's
not
the
same,
and
it's
obviously
not
because
it's
nice
to
grab
a
beer
or
whatever,
between
and
just
chat
with
people
and
exchange
ideas.
B
So
if
you
want
to
give
a
talk
or
sponsor,
this
is
a
good
chance
and
very
soon
I
think
I
don't
know
exactly,
but
very
soon
there
should
be
also
a
way
for
you
to
buy
tickets
yeah,
so
that's
more
or
less
it.
I
think
I
think
a
lot
of
the
things
that
we've
seen
four
years
ago
has
been
are
in
in
progress
are
moving
in
the
right
direction.
B
Only
by
you
know
expanding
this
to
thousands
and
thousands
of
developers
and
seeing
what
everyone
wants
to
to
build
on
top
of
of
this
core
infrastructure
that
co
has
managed
to
to
create
20
years
ago,
25
25
and
go
radio,
20.
and
yeah
just
a
short
self
promotion,
we're
also
having
an
event
of
mixed
hacking
called
awesomesprings.org.
B
B
We
launched
the
deployment
service,
which
is
kind
of
like
you,
can
imagine
mixed
profile
deployments
as
a
service
where
you
can
very
seamlessly
and
easily
manage
either
a
niche
advanced
profile
or
make
starving
profile
or
any
profile
you
want.
As
a
this
is
going
to
be
a
developer
environment,
it
can
be
production,
staging
environment
and
so
on.
So
something
that
we're
I'm
looking
forward
to
to
see
what
people
build
it
and
that's
it
for.
C
A
C
Yeah
sure
I
can
kick
it
off
so
one
question
I
have
for
you
was
around
you
know.
You
talked
a
bit
about
nick's
shell
and
kind
of
we're.
Looking
at
moving
into
flakes
now,
do
you
think
there's
an
opportunity
to
reintroduce
kind
of
the
mixed
model
like
with
flakes
from
scratch?
That's
like
the
starting
point,
or
is
that
not
super
helpful?
You
think
to
introduce
next.
B
C
B
Think
well,
this
is
a
general
question
for
flakes.
I
think
that
flicks
are
great
and
they
kind
of
create
this
schema
and
and
and
like
have
like
convent.
They
create
a
lot
of
conventions
that
we
haven't
had
previously,
but
I
think
there
is
a
lot
of
opportunity
for
for
a
more
granular
approach
to
to
develop
an
environment.
So
just
to
give
you
some
example
examples
you
know
you
could
just
have
complete,
auto
detection
of
languages
and
say:
hey
just
you
know,
whatever
language
you
find
in
my
reproaches,
configure
it
the
best
way
possible.
B
Of
course
this
will
not
work
100
of
the
time,
but
this
is
something
that
the
next
bad
guys
did
and
so
on.
So
this
could
be
something
that
is
just
a
flag
that
you
enable
another.
Another
thing
that
I
could
see
is,
as
I
said,
docker
compose.
You
know
where
you
could
declaratively
define,
define
a
couple
of
processes.
B
That's
then
some
process
manager
would
start
and
manage
it
for
you,
but
all
of
that
will
be
built
by
nyx
and
so
on
and
so
on.
So
I
think
the
question
for
community
is
more
like.
How
do
we
kind
of
create
this
flexibility
inflate
so
that
people
can
go
and
experiment
and
build
this
tooling,
which
is,
I
think,
a
more
fundamental
question
for
flake's?
B
I
think
the
biggest
struggle
has
been
that
a
lot
of
people
in
a
community
are
used
to
doing
things
the
way
they
were
previously
and
when
you
introduce
a
new
tool
like
cachings
and
actually
deploy.
For
example,
in
my
case,
people
in
the
beginning
tend
to
have
yeah.
I
have
my
own
way
of
doing
that
works.
B
Even
most
people
are
just
very
thankful,
and
I
get
very
often
thanks
for
for
that.
Just
you
know
to
follow
that
tutorial,
so
it's
been
kind
of
like
okay.
How
do
we
bring
next
to
two
people
outside
our
circle?
And
I
think
I
think
for
that-
I'm
really
grateful
to
have
these
companies
raise
money
because
they
will
have
to
go
and
solve
this
problem
and
it's
a
very
hard
one
to
solve,
and
I'm
really
looking
forward
to
how
they
will
approach
that
it's
a
lot
of
work.
A
B
B
That
kind
of
like
speeds
up
the
process
and
creates
a
lot
of
solves
a
lot
of
problems
that
nix
does,
but
I
think
she's
still
far
ahead
and
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
opportunities
out
there
in
the
container
world
still
and
we'll
see
in
the
next
year.
A
lot
of
people
attempt
this
in
different
ways
and
for
nick's
package
itself.
I
think
the
biggest
piece
missing
is
like
you
want
to
have
very,
very
granular,
control
of
which
language
version
you
use,
usually
people.
You
know
when
you
deploy
something
it's
very
sensitive.
B
You
have
python,
3.6,
3.7,
3.8,
3.99
and
then
the
minor
versions
as
well.
So
if
mixed
packages
right
now
have
a
policy
to
keep
the
latest
ones,
but
I
think
there's
opportunity
to
say:
okay,
we
want
to
have
all
minor
versions,
because
there
is
an
actual
difference
between
minor
versions
and
that
would
leverage
that
would
leverage
to
to
to
container
tools
to
be
able
to
say
hey.
You
know
whatever
language
you
have
whatever
you
do,
we
can
deploy
this
and
you
will
be
sure
that
this
works
yeah.
B
C
A
Yeah,
that
makes
perfect
sense.
I
mean,
after
all,
it's
a
pretty
big
ecosystem
as
well.
If
you
think
about
it,
the
entire
container
and
orchestration
space,
I
mean,
if
you
just
look
at
the
cncf
landscape,
there's
already
a
dozen
projects
on
there,
where
nyx
could
also
like
steal
some
market.
If
that
makes
sense,.
A
Yep,
so
over
on
matrix,
solan
asks
when
speaking
about
nixtras
on
social
media,
many
people
share
their
worries
to
use
it
because
it
would
hide
all
the
underlying
system
and
time
spent
learning
express
can
be
applied
to
other
linux
distributions
and
what
their
previous
knowledge
isn't
usable
either.
What's
your
opinion
about
this.
B
Yeah,
that's
another
good
question
or
observation.
Oh
this
one
is
hard
to
answer.
I
think
you
know,
I
think,
as
I
said
like
once,
you
learn
something
you
have
already
paid
that
that
price.
That's
that
time,
investment
and
it's
fine.
Some
people
will
not
want
to
learn
it
it's
because
they
will
just
be
happy
with
what
they
did
and
they
know
the
pros
and
cons.
B
And
once
once
people
try
this
and
they
will
see
that
it
works.
They
will
start
to
see
that
the
problems
they
had
previously
will
go
away.
So
essentially,
the
answer
is,
you
know,
reducing
the
learning
curve
and
reducing
the
cognitive
overhang
that
you
currently
have
with
the
things,
and
that
will
remove
that
argument.
A
B
I
think
the
way
to
approach
this
is
to
start
with,
to
start
with
how
developers
work
and
what
are
their
workflows
right
now
and
try
to
go
through
these
steps
and
then
create
a
tooling
out
of
that,
because
nic
as
it
is
right
now,
the
cli
was
created
more
from.
Oh
here's
how
nice
works,
and
these
are
the
operations
you
want
to
kind
of
have
on
top
of
mix,
which
is
very
different
to
the
tooling
that
we
know
works
really.
B
Well,
if
you
think
about
terraform,
if
you
think
about
all
this
commonly
turning
they're,
usually
crafted
for
one
specific
use
case,
one
specific
one,
specific
workflow
they
sold
one
job
terraform
starts
provisioning,
that's
it
and
I
think
nick's
kind
of
solves
all
of
that
in
one
thing,
so
I
I
think
the
biggest
challenge
is
is
how
to
create
these
workflows,
and
my
bet
is
that
you
know
this
is
such
a
big
word
that
that
one
company
or
203
will
nail
this
and
the
community.
This
challenge
here
will
be:
how
do
we?
B
How
do
you
know
what?
What
does
that
mean?
Do
we
bring
that
back
to
next
for
now
and
a
lot
of
questions
like
that,
and
I
I
don't
have
an
answer
for
any
of
that
right
now,
but
I
think
it's
gonna
be
clear.
Once
you
see
someone
create
this,
this
comment
line
tool,
but
I
I
definitely
think
that
the
new
common
line
interface
is
far
from
what
it
could
be
to
support
these
workflows.
A
Thank
you,
then
john
winger,
on
youtube
asks.
Do
you
feel
like
the
transition
to
mainstream
might
be
determinate
the
terminal
jesus?
I
can't
read,
I'm
sorry,
the
term
determinant
to
the
next
ecosystem.
Generally,
mainstream
users
just
consume
software
without
much
upstream
contribution
can
next
handle
it.
B
B
It
would
be
a
shame
not
to
bring
it
to
the
rest
of
the
world
so
that
they
can
enjoy
the
benefits
of
that
and
when
I
see
you
know
my
history
and
everyone's
history
of
devops
tooling,
and
all
the
pain
points
we
had
to
go
through.
It's
just
very
sad
to
that's
the
feeling
I
get
to
bring
this
to
everyone
and
to
solve
these
problems.
B
A
B
B
B
B
B
With
the
nexus
foundation
and
other
things-
and
I
think
we
can
go
through
that-
and-
and
I
see
a
lot
of
more-
I
see
a
lot
more
collaboration
in
the
last
years
than
before.
So
it
really
shows
that
we
are
kind
of
like
seeing
that
where
things
are
going
and
collaborating
between
companies
and
so
on,
but,
as
I
said
yeah
that
will
bring
a
new
set
of
problems
that
we
never
had
before
and
for
some
it
will
be
frustrating
for
others.
B
I
would
want
you
know
this,
this
brilliant
solution
that
solves
a
lot
of
problems
for
humans
to
go
out
there
and
everyone
can
use
it
and
it's
the
same
with
nyx.
And
of
course,
we
all
know
that
the
fact
that
we
all
have
electricity
brought
its
own
set
of
problems
and
the
same
will
be
for
the
next
community
having
all
those
people
coming
in.
C
Yeah,
if
I
could
just
like
jump
in
for
a
second,
you
know,
I
think
you're
exactly
right
and
I
think
there's
just
there's
this
weird
thing
with
nicks
that
it's
not
just
you
know,
we
want
all
these
people
to
use
it,
but
nyx
also
like
brings
to
the
surface
all
the
complexity
of
your
software
right
and
a
lot
of
like
tooling,
as
it
gets
better,
is
usually
to
like
hide
all
those
complexities
and
make
it
make.
It
super
easy
to
use
this
tooling.
B
C
Can't
hide
all
the
complexity,
so
you're
gonna
have
to
have
this
level
of
like
dealing
with
these
the
complexity
of
this
tooling.
By
the
same
time,
we
can
make
that
road
a
little
bit
easier.
So
I'm
not
sure
there's
like
a
good
historical
analogy
for
kind
of
making
something
like
nick's
go
mainstream
and
I
think
his
path
will
be
pretty
specific.
Do
you
agree
with
that?.
B
Yeah,
I
would
agree,
I
think,
the
biggest
the
biggest
like
improvement.
There
is
just
creating
a
lot
of
conventions,
because
nix
is
like
a
library
now
that
you
can,
you
know,
use
and
build
a
lot
on
top
of,
but
creating
conventions.
That
say,
eighty
percent
of
people
will
be
fine
by
this
making
this
decision-
and
things
like
that
will
will
hide
or
remove
a
lot
of
these
decisions,
because
I
think
the
biggest
problem
as
well
in
the
developer
experience
part
is
just
the
choice
fatigue
that
right
now
you
have
you
know
just
oh.
B
B
A
A
B
Yeah
well,
I
talked
about
this
and
it's
been
controversial,
but
I
think
imperative
imperative
package
management
should
go
away
because
I
think
every
time
you
create
this
split,
you
say:
oh
there's,
declarative
and
imperative.
There's
this
then
that
there's
the
single
user
installer
there's
the
multi-user
installer
every
time
you
create
this
split
you're,
creating
a
matrix
of
things.
You
have
to
support,
and
it
comes
this.
You
know
exponential
complexity
by
having
each
of
these
choices,
and
I
think
the
I
think
that
I'm
not
saying
that
imperative
package
management
is
not
useful.
B
I'm
not
saying
that
it
does
not
have
some
benefits,
but
I'm
saying
that
for
80,
90
percent
of
use
cases
we
can
go
away
with
declarative
ones
and
for
the
10
20
that
is
missing.
Probably
we
can
create
just
something
on
top
of
that
or
or
some
feature
on,
the
top
of
declarative
interface.
That
would
kind
of
alleviate
the
one
in
the
period
and
would
also
solve
a
lot
of
problems.
B
And
I'm
saying
this,
mostly
probably
just
removing
all
of
that
from
documentation
and
moving
into
an
advanced
section
would
be
a
very
you
know:
sufficient
move,
because
yeah
there's
a
lot
of
problems
that
I
have.
I
I
think
I
explained
in
in
one
of
the
links
that
they
have
issues.
Another
one
is
that
I
I
think
modulizing
mix
is
going
to
be
really
important
and
you
know
splitting
the
the
evaluator
in
a
separate
thing
and
flex
it
to
a
separate
thing.
So
right
now,
nyx
is
this
big
thing.
B
That's
kind
of
very
tightly
connected,
and
I
think,
like
pulling
these
things
apart,
will
will
create
a
lot
of
innovation,
and
on
top
of
that,
you
know
like
nar
info,
and
all
these
custom
formats
we
created
should
be
at
some
point
replaced
with
some
industry
standard
stuff,
because
that
also
removes
a
lot
of
overhead.
You
know
creating
parsers
for
these
things
and
understanding
what
they
are
understanding,
their
their
technical
flaws
and
all
the
bits
that
you
know.
B
If
you
just
use
a
format,
existing
one
will
remove
a
lot
of
that,
and-
and
the
last
thing
that
I
see
is
like
that
mix
was
never
designed
to
be
very
fast,
and
I
think
this
will
be
really
important,
especially
in
the
future
for
development
environments,
and
that
that
is
a
huge
amount
of
work
that
I
think
tweek
skies
are
trying
to
solve.
That's
the
only
effort.
I
know
right
now,
and
I
think
this
will
be
a
huge
milestone
if
we
can
achieve
it
at
some
point.
A
Yes,
thank
you.
I
perhaps
had
actually
a
personal
question
of
myself.
How
do
you
think
alternative
implementations
of
nick's
player
role
in
next
going
mainstream
because
you
see
all
of
these
cool
technologies
and
people
get
inspired
by
these
technologies
and
then
they
start
implementing
their
own
spin
on
it?
Do
you
expect
this
to
happen
with
nyx
as
well
or
not.
B
So
what
weeks
guys
are
doing
is
essentially
that
if
my
understanding
is
correct-
and
they
are
extremely
frustrated
as
far
as
I
know,
because
a
lot
of
the
things
are
not
documented
or
clear,
but
this
work
will
kind
of
piggyback
to
nyx.
I
think-
and
it
will
allow
us
to
to
document
these
things,
to
change
them
to
make
them
more
clear,
and
this
will
kind
of
clean
up
this
space.
So
it
will
be
beneficial,
so
yeah,
I
I
do
think
it
will
happen
and
it
is
happening
and
probably
should
be
some
one.
B
A
B
A
A
A
C
C
A
So,
as
doman
has
already
mentioned,
and
julia
as
well,
nexcon
is
coming
up
and
they're
also
currently
looking
for
people
to
target
at
nexcon.
So
please
check
out
the
announcement.
If
you
have
something
to
talk
about,
send
in
the
the
request
and
perhaps
you'll
be
talking
at
next
con,
which
would
be
very
cool.
A
If
you
have
any
questions
or
I
did
miss
any
questions
or
the
internet
has
decided
that
the
question
wouldn't
come
to
my
end,
please
post
it
over
on
matrix,
which
the
link
is
below
and
once
again
thanks
for
everybody
for
making
this
possible.
You
know
information
that
you're
being
commissioned,
make
just
foundation
and
tweak
and
yeah
I'm
thinking.