Node.js Inclusivity Working Group, 7 Apr 2016

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From YouTube: Inclusivity WG Meeting - 2016-Apr-07 10:00AM PDT

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A

All right and we are live thanks. Everyone for joining in this is the inclusive. Your working group for April 7th of 2016. Well, first, we'll go around we'll do introductions. My name is Bryan Hughes I work for Microsoft, doing some nodejs things and on github my ID are. My name is nip rias Julie next I.

B

Am really I'm a front-end web dev I'm, currently in between jobs, I'll, be starting at me, relic on Monday.

A

C

I'm Jonah and my github is unbelief 59 and changed it today.

A

Okay: okay, real quick on that. If you change it, can you make a PR to the inclusivity repo we've got your old name listed in a few places, yeah.

C

I was planning to do that. Actually, I just haven't come on to it, yet I need to do for the mill Jayhawk as well. So great thanks.

A

D

A rich trot, I will be taking notes today, so probably not participating too much.

E

All right and Scott Scott Gonzales I am Scott comes all us on github, very confusing and yeah.

A

Okay, all right, so this is I, think it'll be a pretty short part of the meeting. So first looking at the working group operations, one issue we have open, which I think we can actually resolve now- is use the Foundation's YouTube channel. The reason we want to make the switch is before whenever we had these meetings it would be just whoever set up the meeting. You know myself Ashley and some others.

A

We would do it on a personal YouTube accounts which didn't make these meetings very discoverable, but I worked with Michael I was able to get added to the OJS org YouTube accounts. So now this meeting is our first one on the node.js channel, and so you need to draw to confirm, but yes, I believe that issue is actually now done, because here we are any other. Just quick thoughts. Comments on that before we move to the next issue.

A

Great, so the next one is create a history document, so this one is mostly done. We actually have this history document in place, but there were a few myths and kind of questions around that that surface at the end, so we at issue we've left open for now.

A

One of this has to do with phrasing that we use. So we have two lists of members of sorts on the reading page. We have the list of current members, which is just a flat list. Then the history page we list when anyone was at it right now.

A

I believe those two lists are completely in sync, but they may not necessarily be in the future and so there's some questions over what we called them and the history document that section how I'm looking this up real quick is called members and in the readme it is also called initial membership. I believe the phrase initial membership came from the template for the Charter, but I could be wrong on that there's. Some question of like it's kind of wording, didn't really match what eita was doing.

A

So that's something we'll need to get ironed out. So William cap K came in and made some suggestions. He suggested to use previous members into history, and members are current members in the readme I. Don't have any particularly strong opinions on this, but I'd like to kind of hear what everyone else thinks I would.

E

Put current members in the readme for the title and for the history document we could either just list all members in one list right active like current and previous, or we could have two lists for who are the current members and who are the previous members I think it might to just do the one list, because we already have a list of active members and to read me I.

B

Think that's the simplest thing to start, especially since there's not a lot of like not current members right now. Maybe if the list becomes arduous, we want to split it up later. It seems fun like that for now.

A

So one concern I had I did drop this in. That issue is if I'm kind of wary of singling out people who are no longer members.

A

You know we haven't known across this bridge yet, but I imagine most the time. It's going to be people just simply got busy, but you know if we kind of single out that the no longer I remember that could raise questions of you know. Why aren't they a member anymore? Did they do something? Do they get kicked out? I'm worried it might have a singling out effect.

B

That's a really good point, I think just having one list of people who are currently or have been at a time that members on the history dock is fine, I, don't think we need to split them up. Okay,.

A

And it is still possible to figure out. He was no longer a member from this, but it takes a little work, so I so yeah. The.

E

Difference is that we don't take action on the removal of a member. If there's one list, if there's two lists, then there is, there is like an actual commit that occurs and there's notifications that get sent out when somebody becomes a past member. Oh that's.

A

A really good point, I didn't think about that there still will be on the readme I. Don't think there's a way around that later, but this is nothing what it was like balancing acts yeah. You know we can't do both perfectly so if they're like compromised.

C

E

So we settled on will do just change the title and the readme to current members and we'll just update the list in the title on the list in the history document to say current and past members.

A

Yeah I think that sounds good I'll submit up here with that, and we can bike shed a little more over the terms there but I think. But you know if yeah that sounds like a good brooch any other thoughts or comments before we move on to the next one.

A

Alright, so the next one, this one is, is definitely much bigger one. This is an action item assigned to Scott, which is a page for community members to join slack Scott. You've already done some awesome work on this I'm really excited to see where this is going.

A

Has anyone else had a chance to kind of take a look at some of this work?

A

Scott. You want to kind of lead us through kind of some of the work. You've done some of the rationale behind some of the design decisions. Things like that sure. So,.

E

Our goal is to have public joining of our slack to you, because slack does not enable that unless you do it by domain for email addresses, which we obviously can't control so we're using an undocumented slack API to invite members- and they select acknowledges that people use this and they make no promises about it. They won't intentionally break it, but it's undocumented because they have not decided if the API is the way that they want it to be. So for now it does work.

E

Other people are using this as well, and the pull request has the bare minimum implementation right now. For you, you come to the site, you click a button. It will use OAuth to connect to github you'll, then pull your email address from github send an invitation to reflect to that email address, and then you just follow the link that you get an email and you join the team. So that would give you access to all of our public channels, so I have not looked at I. Believe we have.

E

The channel is already set properly for moderation so that only the ones that should be public are public yeah.

C

Well, we have some private channels here and some public ones yeah.

E

So so that system worked, there's, there's no design work or anything. It's like literally one sentence of plain text on a page, so I can work on that. There's a little bit more implementation to do around like detecting. You know we have rules like you.

E

The github account has to exist for 30 days in order for it to send you an invitation so that way people can't just create throwaway github accounts in order to troll us, and so I'll need to put up some wording saying you know if your accounts under 30 days, please contact us and give them like an email link, so they can send us a note saying that they want to join and then we can go manually, approve them.

E

Presumably trolls would not be going through that form and I think that's about all it does right now. You know it's pretty simple app.

A

And it's also worth noting that we are intentionally linking this to github authorization so that we can kind of link people who are applying to you know in addition to having that time length. It's also, we just have a link back Danny if we ever do have to take any sort of moderation action. You know this enables us to also take moderation in action on the github repos. This is the same way that the IRC moderation policy works. I, believe, except this is a little more formal.

A

Does anyone have any thoughts on this process? Any concerns, maybe a aspects we haven't addressed.

B

Well sounds good to me as long as we have language that indicates if you have a problem, or it doesn't work for you for some reason that you every way to get us which it sounds like. We will sounds good to me.

A

Yeah I was kind of thing about just dropping at the inclusivity at I/o jet org email say you might email us for you know if you wanna request an exception or run into any problems.

C

A

C

Mean they could also open an issue on the only web college because the Cole is going to be living there.

A

Actually, that's a good idea. I didn't think about that. I mean the whole idea with this part of the psyche is that this is effectively public anyways, so I know other concerns, because I mean that is a public request. Instead of a private request, no yeah.

B

I, don't want to necessarily make people personal requests in you know they don't want to, but we have an email address like as a backup thank people for some reason can't leave.

C

Yeah, like it absolutely can be like a choice whether you want to make it public or private.

E

Yeah, so there was this discussion of you know whether or not the information to public eye. As far as I know, you can't hide your email address and slack so once you decide to join the slack team, you're you're publicly giving your email address to everybody else on that team.

B

A

We should add a disclaimer about that on the signup page.

A

Yeah some people may not be comfortable or they may want to be aware of it, so they can use an alternate anonymous email address or something right.

A

Alright, so change it to that, once they sign into slack. That is.

B

Quick question about the slack as we're adding a button tential and adding a bunch of our people from there aren't members who actually has admin privileges on the slack for the purpose of moderation. Stuff like that, if we need it everywhere,.

E

Can remember okay.

A

Now the current structure right now- and some of this is just artifacts of history- is Jonas the primary owner, then Ashley and myself are also owners, and then every other member is an admin. And, of course everyone else who is not a member will be just a regular user.

A

Yeah and I really do want us to try and use public channels as much as possible. Just you know that is a big part of nodejs and I. Think ultimately, for good reason is you know, transparency is really important, so I wanted to have try and be as transparent as possible on this, but with the acknowledgement that some things obviously can't be.

A

Any other thoughts or comments on that before I move on to the next section.

A

And, of course, also I assume this goes without saying. Maybe we need to explain it, but the code of conduct you know that's on github also applies to slack and including you know, which includes giving us the ability to moderate, if need be,.

A

Let's see open, so that's all of our working group operations section so now we're moving on to open pull requests. We have one. This is that invite tool that we have a new repo Nell called the inclusivity slack inviter, which so this is a you know, basically purely code repository, so ok, one thought I'm kind of making this a bit ago, I'm just kind of looking at stuff. So we have this pull request open, which is for this implementation.

A

It's looks like it's pretty much all just node code on the back end. So this is you know: I want to take a look just give some feedback. You know. If there's any thing, you see that yeah, maybe some wording these who changed in the UI. Some things I could be more robust in the backend, whatever I'm, also pretty okay, which is simply getting this out there I'm getting it up and running, recognize improve it later.

A

I was anything you wanted to add on the PR specifically about this. Is there anything that you want us to look for? No everything.

E

A

E

A

Comment specifically about.

E

A

Think you spawned.

E

Everything already.

A

I'll go through it again and make sure a few other thoughts as so. This could be an action item for someone is I'm. Looking at this there's, we should fill out the readme a little more, probably linked back to the inclusivity channel. Maybe mention things like codes of conduct. This is under purview of the inclusive or something like that. You can take a level. We could also give that to someone else since I know, this has already been a pretty big chunk of work.

E

Yeah that my goal with this PR was just like get a review of the general system like make sure that this was the approach we wanted and I was just going to wait a few days so far.

E

Nobody else commented on it, so then I'll go and like actually flesh it out make the pages have more than just one sentence on them, but put some actual design in there like add the email links like I was talking about and stuff like that, so I just want to make sure that I was going down the right path before I. You know implemented the entire thing, but it is functional like we could push this live today and it would work it just isn't. The prettiest thing.

A

So my kind of initial reaction is: maybe we could get just a couple of the things we talked about here, like you notice, the little disclaimer about like emails being visible in place and then yeah I think we should start looking into getting this live as soon as fall. So I don't want to start getting people in what is everyone else? Okay,.

E

Looks like I, don't know what how we manage deployments like. Are we responsible for our own deployments or is there some other team that manages infrastructure.

A

um Rich, if by chance, do you happen to know I'm, actually not really certain.

D

I'm, not a hundred percent sure but I'm under the impression that the you know we're kind of autonomous in that regard. So you know we do what we want.

E

Okay, so we're autonomous, but we do have access to the servers and stuff like that. I'm, not sure what servers you're referring to well I mean I, assume node. Foundation has ownership of several servers, probably through some so I mean yeah.

D

I mean it's not like: there's like it's not like node foundation has a Heroku account. We can spin up a server whenever we want. Like that's. My understanding is that the node foundation servers are all donated in kind by various service providers for specific purposes. A lot of them are, for you know the build and CI infrastructure. We have the web site, that's donated by I I, don't I, someone might have to ask Michael or Jeremiah or something but I, don't believe we have. You know, oh here's an account where we just spin up.

D

You know back in the type BOTS and servers that we need so I guess. Maybe that's an action item. Somebody should find out.

E

Yeah, we should look into that all right. I'll. Take that one okay.

A

Yeah and if we don't have access to resources, we can I spin up just like a free karoku instance or something hey I, don't anticipate this. We get hardly any traffic, no.

E

And it does almost no work at all.

A

All right, so this see going back to our meeting notes. So that's actually everything on the agenda. Now we want to look at deliverables for the next two weeks before we have our next meeting.

E

Well, I can certainly finish up the slack inviter.

A

All right, I think that sounds great yeah. Let's, let's definitely do that. I think. That's really important to kind of getting a lot of our next steps implemented. I. Have that one deliverable from the beginning is there anything else that we want to focus on.

C

Wasn't one thing that came up like recently also, this is C policy. Wasn't that suggested to be done in this working group.

A

Yes, thank you for reminding me. Yes, that is definitely something we should take on. There is an issue filed in the node moderation repo, so I can drop this in slack later, but this is not a public repo for those you're watching well yeah. So I think there is kind of a moderation policy around IRC right now, but it needs a lot of work.

A

I believe Emily, Rose Mexi has been involved or had some ideas around. That I should follow up with Emily on that, but it's definitely been suggested that we take on crafting that policy and I get the impression that well, there's probably reason that this is coming up now, so there might be some amount of pressure to get this done sooner rather than later.

A

Is this something any of you want to take on? We can also talk and slack to find someone else to take that on. Maybe I was just all witty.

D

Yeah I think I already has to take it on from you. Brian.

A

Okay, great I haven't checked my notifications in a while.

D

Yeah, what I was I was gonna suggest was that maybe Brian take on the task of following up with Jeremiah and Emily to just figure out. You know: how do we get? How do we? How do we push that one over the finish line in the next two weeks? Okay,.

A

That sounds great I'll. Take that on yeah all.

D

Right and Jonah did you have anything else want to add.

A

Anything else he wants to bring up. Of course, I should always mention you know. This isn't, like you know, formal sprint, planning or anything like that. We can take on whatever work we feel like, and we can I suppose things. Of course, I'm.

D

Gonna also add something another one for you Brian to schedule the next meeting. Unless there's someone else who should do that and actually maybe we should talk about that because I don't know if that burns you out or not to have to schedule the meeting in from two weeks.

A

I'm fine doing it one of my biggest problems, I just kind of forget. Sometimes so you like some of our gaps. You usually come because of that. But now I can do it.

C

Remaining boring, then I.

A

Like that idea, I did have a thought earlier this morning. Here's to see what everything's kind of along these lines is. What do you think about sending out a calendar? Invite to all the members help remind about means, that'd be helpful. I.

D

Believe that if you set up for Google hangout early enough, it sends out a Google Calendar reminder, if you add people's actual Google, you know names to you know when you, when you have the option to invite and you invite the public and then you know you can add other names, it will actually send them a Google, Calendar thing and I. Think that's the thing that Jeremiah at least is always asking for I, don't know if that would help anyone else.

A

Okay, all right yeah I will do that.

A

Yeah, let's think yeah, that's a great point.

A

All right last business.

A

All right, well, I'm, gonna call this meeting adjourned thanks. Everyone for joining in bye.