Node.js Release Working Group, 5 Dec 2019

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https://github.com/nodejs/bootstrap/issues/114

A

Come so we are live with the Nate Foundation release, working group meeting on the 5th of December 2019 and will be working through the agenda in issue 539 and it's wife asking under any announcements or anything. Anyone wants to call out before we get started.

A

And so the first item on the agenda is the for the collaborators summit and what we should use the time to discuss there. How many of us can make it I know Michael I, don't think you can make it this time.

B

I'm, certainly not going to be, there are.

A

You not making it either Ruben, no.

B

A

So just be myself, my owns, maybe Shelley a few others. Okay, I think we might make the call to maybe not do it there. If we can't get too many of us together or maybe do you have free time during, would you be able to join a meeting if we could coordinate that while we were there I.

B

Would be able to join a meeting, and the question is just how easy it is also for you to set it up there yeah.

A

I, don't know how much flexibility were housed on time there, okay, yeah.

C

I could join too; it just depends when it happens. Okay,.

A

Chuck, okay, well consider a bit more at a time. I think I think the focus might be trying to onboard new releases and coming up with a plan of how we identify candidates for being the releases or adding some more mentorship for new releases, so where that's probably okay for that issue, current should include 1213.

A

If anyone seen this issue so.

B

I put it on the release agenda to get a solution for it pretty much, so we sometimes might have a short time period where two releases are current.

A

B

That's what he complains about yeah.

A

Because I did I said I think was it this time we had no currently release for one of the days because we were promoted, 12 12, yes on the Monday and we released 13 on a Tuesday. So is that preferable to having 12 and 13 be current on the same day, I'm, not sure which way it's better.

B

Or indeed, even both current.

A

What 12 and 13.

B

A

Twelve twelve term Aaron.

B

The day before thirteen.

A

B

Sorry I got confused yeah that.

A

Wouldn't be the case for when 13, when 14 comes out, because 13 will never turn out. Yes, so 13 would be kind of in a current phase.

C

Yeah, it only happens if we released the switch LTS before the new currents.

B

So I'll be very frank: I have no strong opinion about it and I think it's fine. Whatever we do yeah.

A

C

And and I don't feel strongly enough about it in this time in it yeah.

A

I feel like, what's ever easiest to coordinate the release around that time, because because the major release is based off of the Delta between the previous release and master, it's quite difficult. If you, if you play with the timings yeah.

B

So the only question is: what do we officially say like? Is this something that might happen again or is it something that we want to fix? I.

A

Guess we can look at our schedule? Are we've not given specific days.

C

So does it also happen if we swept the releases, so if we release the 15 before 14, yes,.

A

That would be okay, we just have to current release lines.

A

And I think there was actually an issue raised on that.

A

That someone someone complained when it was that way around as well.

A

A

Remember seeing it was duplicate, current release, I think it caused problems for people making tools that would detect the current, and when that was too current, it caused some issues. It's in one of my PR.

B

hmm Yeah I guess most people would like it to be exactly on the same day and it's going to be difficult. Even.

C

If it's on the same day, there could be one or two hours of difference, and in that timeframe people will open issues.

B

A

C

B

A

Current maintenance and current yeah and I don't know I'm, not sure what Iran said t where Jordan would be, though so I'm not sure.

C

Did Jonathan propose a fix some.

D

Way to fix that.

B

Not that I'm, aware of I guess.

A

Maybe that's our next step like.

A

When 14 goes into OTS and 50 is not yet released,.

C

Okay I understand so the problem was that when I released 12.13.12 website, at least it was advertised as LTS and.

A

C

The same time, the current was not this version, it was the previous version. It was 12 to 12.

A

Which isn't it yeah so.

C

Maybe he's just asking us to have the same version number on both sides during that time frame. I.

A

Think I was fixin to the websites that yeah I reckon appear to fix the landing page for days like today, so with this PR current will not show if it's less than the latest out. Yes, okay,.

C

Then there's only one link and that wasn't enough.

B

No, no, he was not happy with that.

A

I'm surprised too I.

B

Believe the main reason is, he also maintains nvm.

A

B

You are able to install a current or latest as far as I know and I'm, not 100% sure, because I normally just use numbers but I believe that's something that is supported. So, okay,.

C

B

That time it's ambiguous he's.

C

Using the CSV for that, not not the website page I.

C

Don't know how nvm works to determine if release is current or it yes,.

A

Okay, so it's a Reuben saying that we should go through the way where we have not read Ansari gotten names mixed up. Jordan has said that he would prefer current to be released before LT s, but that's not an ideal solution. That means we'd have two currents at the same time, which does happen. Yeah.

A

Yeah I'm not do you have any thoughts either way.

A

So the the major release we've tried to keep to a pattern of releasing it on the third Tuesday of April and October, and we could say that the even number of releases promote on the on the fourth Tuesday. So it's the week later, but that would mean we have two current releases. So.

B

For me, um our release process is so much work and it's a huge burden. Then it's sometimes difficult to coordinate everything properly. Yes,.

A

Different people doing the different.

B

A

Can't easily say it must be on this date. Therefore,.

B

I would rather not guarantee anything around this and just keep it as it is and say it's a known issue, but until we have more automation in place- and this won't happen, okay.

A

I think I think that's a fair response. We can say we will our release schedules based on availability and what happens at a time we've peered the website so that it won't show it won't show. The issue where you saw 1213 is out yes and 1212.

A

X's currency, that's not problem anymore and around terminology I do think we need a better and somewhere in the readme that really clarifies what active means. Maintenance means like a good table with the clear definitions. Don't think that's on our list to do anyway, so I can write up a response to that.

A

If that makes sense to everyone, Richard.

C

Do you have something to say about this.

E

F

Not really I mean I, don't know how nvm detects current, because as far as I can remember, we only label LTS in in the in the index Jason and tab files. If that's, what MDM is scraping.

F

Sorry, can you hear.

C

F

C

Nvm just taste the most recent none LTS as the current I, don't know, yeah.

F

I don't know cuz I mean the LTS was just a flag, isn't it in the index? It's just a true or false.

A

F

Not set flag so I, don't know, I mean if, if nvm is just detecting the latest normal to us or something I don't, but maybe maybe maybe we need to sort of go back and work out what sorry back to Jordan. And so what is the exact yeah.

E

F

Tangible actual problem, if it's just confusion, because they might you know pitch someone's downloading the wrong thing from the website- well I think we fix that. But if it's actually the tooling is broken then we might, you know I mean.

E

F

Better understanding what the tooling is doing to come up with a workable plan, I mean is I'm pretty much in agreement. The rest of you that unless there's some real concrete, you know demonstration that this is the actual problem.

A

F

Broken in Vienne because of this then I'm inclined to not make any promises. Yeah.

A

So I guess we could say on the basis that we've we've fixed the website, so it won't show current and out yes, it's the same release line cuz.

F

I'm getting I'm guessing the only other thing you could do was to what stage the releases and then try and push them all out Atlas to promote them. At the same time, yeah.

A

F

And yeah: that's.

A

More likely to introduce other problems, I think from just.

A

A

C

We should ask in the issue how nvm works and.

C

A

A

Next one was: should the pv upgrades be similar. I think this has been on the reese agenda before I. Think.

F

We've got an agreement, but it's just nothing miles of someone wanted document it wanted. It documented, but I thought the agreement was that we weren't going to treat it any different to any other. Any other dependency that followed tender.

B

What what is our opinion in general I mean out of my perspective. It should normally not be the release team's time to discuss this, but inward, like the core in general, I, think.

F

The question was that if there was a lip easy release and then we were determining when to back pull that into LTS, would that go into you know would would would lead DV releases be held off for summer Minor, yes, virgins and I think the general consensus was, it depended on the semblance of Livy they. You know if it was just a passion. At least we could just put it into a normal patch, all TS relationship, yeah.

C

But it just depends on if we put it in a semi, minor or assemble parodies of current before right. Yes,.

F

Yes, so I think the consensus was that there would be no special treatment for lip. You see if we would treat it as any other.

F

You know a thing that went into no the December nurse with because Libya v8 follows December than December nursing node would more or less follow that I mean I I. Guess there are situations where it might not, but I mean those would be quite rare and.

C

Why would we need to follow? Leave you v7s, because we expose it directly or I.

F

Guess Adams could compile against it.

F

But yeah I mean generally generally, when a December minor Hopkins in Libya VAE. It's normally because something can note then start using using the feature, and the question then, is: what is that feature? Is it just? We changed something existing to use the new thing or have we introduced something new into node, so I.

A

F

I think the main thing is that I personally, don't think, there's anything special about libuv that we would say you know they're, always similar minor. It's kind of it depends yeah.

A

F

A

It'd be confusing if we made it minor, even if you lose the press release as well. I.

C

Think, whatever we decide for Libby, we should be. We should decide the same for NPM or I, don't know other dependencies yeah.

F

Pretty much I wouldn't want this special case libuv. You know it's more or less a kind of treated as we create any other, any other change going into and release it. So you know what was that? What was the? What was that labeled when it went into master? Was it major or minor? They're, obviously not majors in current and LTS? But you know what, if Marta it wasn't my neural patch on master and it's you know that would broadly be what it would be when it gets back ported into lose the release. Millions I.

A

Guess if we are aiming to have some kind of table to describes what active out, yes, maintenance etc is we could include the definitions in there? So you would say, and.

A

That, like upgrades to dependencies, would be part of that to vote YES or maintenance and Weber it, and we would just use December defined by the dependency itself.

A

It does mean the maintenance releases and maintenance could get patch up race, but probably wouldn't get minor upgrades, but I don't think that is any different to what we did today anyway. I.

F

Think in practice, libuv updates on the release lines in a quite infrequent in that sometimes we bump it by quite a few releases.

A

Okay, do you think where would we document this there's no documents there.

F

Isn't really any way I could think of them. Yeah.

A

F

F

Margin is we did right in the issue what we were going to do: okay,.

A

And just get people to thumbs-up yeah Nazis me: okay, no.

A

Yep, that's all someone and the finding. Why, for all current releases, think this was waiting on I.

C

A

But it stink I think he closed the package maintenance. One saying he didn't find any information that needed to be updated, but I still think we should have like a nice clear table explaining all the words we use because I know. We've had quite a few issues opened in the past year asking like what does active out. He asked me what does maintenance mean, etc?

A

So, if we just make it taken with definitions for fun to read me I think that would make sense and I don't know whether that would make sense to me over and oh cool or over an release free play all both storing things in both places. Awkward I think.

F

There was there was a PR ink or for a general glossary, but I think that's stalled or I can't remember landing, yeah and I guess the question for that is: how visible is that? Is it only going to be visible to collaborators or you know, do we want? Do we want up front in the read Neil's I, don't know it's kind of how visible do we want the definition of the words, though.

A

Sudden, doesn't the website call from the release route? Don't read me.

D

A

Maybe it should be able yeah.

F

A

Informations on the website.

F

The website does pull stuff from the release: repo yeah yeah.

A

I think it would be good to have that on the website, so maybe in the release, repo is the best place to have it for now, it's going to read me so that it gets propagated to the website.

A

A

You'll think it's a good idea to have this table and it's something. I could probably take a look at between now and the end of the year when I get time to sit down to write definitions and put PR. Oh.

F

Yeah guys rip er, we can all chime in on that.

A

And the last item on the agenda is is from build. Em is methods for showing the release keys so.

A

Now, looking at some methods of how we can store our keys and share them, I think now is free options suggested.

F

Yes, I think I've summarized yeah.

A

Thanks Richard, so adding them to the core repository, adding them to denied release repo or creating a separate, no Jess keys repo under the note Jess organisation, where all of our keys can live and people can check them against that and yeah. The TSE just asked us just to discuss it and come back saying hey. This sounds good or not.

C

Well, I'm in favor of a dedicated repo.

A

Yep I would be too.

B

I'm good with anything, okay.

A

So yes should I paste back saying in the release meeting we discussed this and we +1 on it. Can't free, no Jess keys, yeah.

F

That sounds good.

F

Yeah because I think I think the concern about putting it into an existing repo was keeping track of, who can actually change and edit it and write.

E

F

A repo then you've got the exact term. You know you.

E

F

The access to that, so that is only perhaps like the releases that would have been able to change their own business change, the keys, okay.

A

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

A

Okay, so got answers for that one quickly open the issues for you should have released lines.

A

B

Just one thing: if, since it would be a separate repository, we should probably link to it from the release repository. Yes,.

B

C

Said also from the readme of nodejs node.

A

J sync- and you know in no justno readme at the moment, they've listed a few of our keys, but they still live there as well. I.

F

Think the point was that it lists I think into the OGS readme points at a key server, and the issue was that that key server is thought to be unsafe or it's.

E

F

Compromised, oh yeah, untrusted, basically, and it was kind of replacing that Kay server that's currently referenced in the readme with something else. Okay,.

A

F

I, yes, with with a new repository, we would then also need to update the documentation that points at the city, s, KS, k, server or whatever. Oh, how.

A

Are you verify the keys yeah.

F

And pointed out this other repo that we know what the one that we transfer in or create, and it's basically you know the keys are listed in the readme and then this is how you verify that these keys are I.

F

Guess what they say.

A

Okay sure make sense in terms of releases.

A

C

Was a release this week by Reuben? What's.

A

At 13 or 13 free.

F

A

Next once to 17th, and then we've got a couple of weeks: break till January one's.

A

Active LTS, so we've got a 12 release planned for next Tuesday, but getting released the following week and no 10 I have opened a PR for this one, but the date might slip slightly and there's currently only like 15 commits in this release proposal, because what I've done so far is go for everything that was tagged. Lts watch or the open back pulpy odds that are not some of the minor, because this is a patch release, so I'm kind of hoping to get some feedback on the PR itself.

A

And hopefully people are start tagging some more things out. Yes, watch or suggesting a few more things that should land I could go through and land a load of test updates and dock updates, but I'm not sure what that would actually gain us to be honest, there's no way of running I suspect, there's probably about 2,000 at least commits that we haven't audited for 10, so we've kind of swapped to data.

A

Let us know which land and market is LGS, which kind of method see if anyone has any ideas of things that should land like bug, fixes, etc. Let me know.

C

There's so many things difficult, yeah.

A

Yeah, what what I'm trying to do is yeah just go through stuff timed out. Yes, watch but I'm also gonna go through the issues and look at anything at references no tend to see if there are any bug fixes that are waiting to land on May 10 as well, so yeah feel free to just push stuff to turn to X staging if, if it lands and I'll rebase this, and if we add a lot of lot more commits, then I'll probably push to really stay out by a week.

A

But we shouldn't with we're not having that many more 10 releases I think there's only three or while it's in active OTS and then it goes to maintenance in April I. Believe.

A

Okay and one other thing I remember from this week, Ruben did you have any issues with the SHA soms when, during your release,.

B

So it's not the creation of them is fine, but it's not added to the release post right.

D

B

Far as I can tell it's broken from the script, and that is that we are using on from the no GS org repository it.

C

It also happened two weeks ago. Yes,.

F

It would it be a motorized on the page we on that on the build repo.

A

C

I'm not sure, because knives had to regenerate the keys right.

B

That's yeah well, I I cannot tell if that was really the issue or not, but I mmm as far as I'm concerned, like I checked mine and they were definitely available and he added the GPG one as well. That's only in his release, so that's a manual created one I, don't know of the automatic ones.

B

A

Is it possible that some things changed over in the website repaid it's caused it great.

A

Scripts called free.

B

Release post-its in script, scripts really suppose, like.

C

B

The last change is four months ago: yeah.

C

What's sure is that the release I made I, don't remember when maybe one months ago didn't have this problem.

B

And at least for me, I did not have any problems or like. There was no notification from the regular script, only sod and when looking at the release post itself that the key was not in there but yeah.

C

We should probably fix the script to make it fail if there are no does no content. Yeah.

F

C

Remember once that.

C

The files were not readable, there was a permission issue with nginx and I had the same issue. Then the really suppose didn't include it. Yeah.

A

I was just trying to go. Go back a couple to see whether the last release I did are.

C

We sure that does not permission issue this time.

A

It's possible because I know I'm a front delt a lot. A lot of things have been repositioned or updated. Recently, I.

A

Think who's got the next release. It probably be me. Maybe I should keep an eye out when I try to promote my release.

C

Maybe there's actually a way to just rerun the release. Postscript, oh yeah,.

A

C

Guess you can remove the release post from the repo and rerun this.

A

Yeah, we should see.

C

What happens and we can debug that yeah.

A

Okay, sure is there anything else anyone wants to mention today.

F

Have you had an opportunity to speak to Sam about the the didn't? You write something to go into no date, but we've got no. No, they racers plan right.

A

Correct, yes, I can't.

F

Remember it was HTTP, parser is.

A

Something around 82 mm, yeah, yeah.

F

Because I think there was also some concerns that the newer HTTP parser was more strict yeah.

A

F

To me, that kind of suggesting that we probably wouldn't want to put that in a it's going to be the last release. Yeah.

A

I feel like there's.

F

A new problem that we're not going to be able to fix for.

A

Weeks before the end and end of life, changing this I don't think we should do. Does anyone else have any thoughts.

C

C

Think it's probably too late.

A

I doubt people would even have the time to prepare to release I think I saw somewhere that some of the know date machines. The machines we use to build no date may may not even be turned on at this point, I think I read that someone.

F

I think you've also been added changing some of the windows convicts so I saw there was a enough. There was a commitment, LAN denied for updating the windows, build things worrying if we ever needed to again I.

A

Wasn't sure if that was jutsu and the issue that we saw with CI when trying to convey tent-like staging I.

F

Think he's trying to add visual studio, 2019 and then taken the opportunity to make other changes right.

A

F

The job config, but because the job config is shared between all the releases that that's the issue that we had that where I change something and it tripped up the Tim release, because something wasn't back ported into the ten line. Yeah.

A

F

Least, in this case, we had that portable, the changes but I, don't know you know how confident we are there. Any changes to wait was been.

D

F

Enough that, were we to do and I'd release that we don't really want to do whether we then have to you know fight through any build issues and yeah.

A

I think we would and to be honest if we get any build issues even next week, people weren't going to be available wrong.

F

End of the year to have a yeah.

A

I feel like, and we don't do this yep.

F

A

Okay, anything else anyone wants to mention today. I'll add some links to these into the minutes and trinkets y'all ready. So.

A

Okay, thanks for joining everyone speech you later thank.

E

You bang thanks bye.