Node.js Technical Steering Committee, 9 Mar 2017

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From YouTube: 2017-03-09 Node.js Foundation Technical Steering Committee (TSC) Meeting

Description

https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/issues/222

A

Live now so welcome to new foundation, tsc meeting for the ninth of March 2017 and let's do a quick review of last meeting. So we talked about the collaboration summit and that's going to be the Europe collaboration summer. Anyway. That's some gonna align with Jays comfy. You we're just looking for people to actually xperia, but there's been more discussion in there we looked. We talked about nominating joshin. We can have a vote on that today. We're going to finish.

A

The focus of the votes actually been going on github, it's like Josh revanche, and then we looked at copyright issues that was both copyright date and also the copyright text revised membership rules which we will try and dig into today and.

A

The NPM package stuff managed for no foundation, so that's been resolved and Michael Dawson has taken that elsewhere. So that's how to publish node foundation packages so Michael Dawson, weird that um that went somewhere else. I I.

B

Don't I hadn't actually seen any discussion I. Think since the last time we got together, there wasn't a lot I believe everybody was pretty much in agreement with the you know, we'll just have a foundation user I'll go back and check and make sure that there's no dissension there and then just basically say that's what we're going to do and move it forward.

C

Smell is just the foundation users upon the account one uses. Everyone excuse exactly yeah yeah.

A

Okay, so diving into this meeting and we're going to.

A

We're going to talk first about collaboration summit, which is issue number 39 in the summit, repo now I'm, not sure this need to come back onto the agenda on. I did so brian hughes, you at the bottom there and anna settled on date and everything okay. I know you want to take this and tell us where this up to.

D

Yeah I think we're pretty much settled on I'm doing a collaboration center on my fourth and tip. That's just be coming out of Pete discussion, I think, like only.

E

D

People like reacted to my mind, almond rice, suggested that we like fake hip.

E

Members on how many people could.

D

E

D

Definitely funny anymore, when people like rich strata already opened up yeah, it's just for asking for tribal council stuff.

D

It was still we cook left like other members and how many people would attend. I'm, not sure what was the best way to get that is maybe like send an email to all collaborators.

B

Yeah I say we now that you have a date sending out a question would probably get you more vague answer that you want.

D

Great I did comment on the Fred with that. That's, like might be, that is true, yeah, so just send out emails, listen.

A

D

Alternatively,.

A

Opening a new issue to actually ask for something specific instead of asking people to read the whole thread, I think that's the problem there, but time if you open a new issue with like just that question that might help.

D

uh Yeah sure up.

A

Up to you, how do you guys feel a bit done, email with it, yeah.

D

Just can't worried about lucky I know a lot of people have to play by the backlog on the patient's.

E

Thing to add to that way, one reason that you know I encourage bring this up. Today is just you know the clocks kind of ticking on this one beginning amazing, out that far away- and you know, travel costs are gonna start going up pretty soon. So I think it's important that we at least get an official date that we can like tell people be like hey. This is the day you know start looking.

D

Right, like that's something that we should do today, it's like say it's going to happen. I'm a party to embargo it.

D

It's a shame: Michael isn't here, Roger.

F

What's that, what do you need from Michael quick, but I am.

D

C

He was just like plugging.

D

To be somebody in berlin, we will have a space for us and we could like get for free. So maybe she doesn't actually need to ask the bar for anything.

F

Ok, so you guys about.

D

F

Right, especially if you can get the number down or like a like a reasonable estimate, then they'll be able to cover the venue. But you guys don't want like food and beverage.

E

Yeah we ideally, we probably will want at least you know, coffee and tea stuff like that yeah and so I think he'll. We can, you know, send an email out today with like hey. These are the days you know we're still finalizing some things, you let us know what you think but like these are the dates. You know, here's your travel information. Do you think you'll be there? Yes, no yeah.

F

Yeah, I think the the dates are the most important thing right now on the location of the city other than that like you'll, be able to get commitments from there and the logistics of getting a venue and or asking an allocation are absolutely not blockers to this. So, but we can still work on that. If y'all need him.

A

Tracy, if you're talking to Michael, could you maybe get Michael to introduce manitou yarn to talk about the venue I think.

C

A

With it was the person that was handling that sure.

D

Yeah, like whatever fun everybody feel comfortable like setting the date or in a garden, because I don't really see any reason not to do.

E

I think I think I feel comfortable, saying. Fourth and fifth is the date based on the threat because it looked like the v18 was going to be in for vailable on the fourth or fifth, but not afterwards, and you know we wanted to hook them and so, like I, think we're at a point where we could say. Yes, this is definitively the date, but I know is everyone else. Think.

A

Makes perfect sense to me as long as that venues available.

B

A

It'd be good to lock it in now, since people are already making plans for for being at and traveling to MJ's come.

A

A

You make it so.

E

So doesn't actually I don't follow up. Do we want to Anna? Do you want to send out an email to the collaborator saying like this is the dates? Let us know if you're interested yeah awesome.

D

That's when Michael overlap, yeah.

A

A

We have this nomination for Josh grant from Microsoft to join. The tsc. Josh has been with us consistently for months, I'm helping out and so far we've had.

A

Hang on I'll just go over that issue. Job.

A

Yes, we've had, because I was keeping track of this.

A

Do we do have enough, but.

A

Sorry I, just let me I had my tally somewhere but lost.

A

You have a look 11 tsc members at the moment and.

A

A

We had one we had myself: Burt Brian colin james Jeremiah, 6 out of 11 voting positively already, and then since then we have added brian white and boat again, slow and seven. Do we have anybody in this mean that it's not on that list.

A

A

A

Okay, that's fine! So that's at seven out of 11 votes, so I don't think we have anyone else to really vote live so I'm. Assuming that's the case! Then we have to welcome Josh on as a TLC member down, and so that's all done and dusted. So Josh welcome to the tsc. Welcome.

C

A

G

Everyone welcomes.

E

A

But glad to be official parked thanks for your contribution so far, and we look forward to more.

G

H

After, like two years, I finally expand, the tsc were better.

A

Okay and we have that, we have two more and nominations to roll through. We have Michael Dawson and Anna, I'm heading hangsen to vote on in the next couple, our next few weeks. So those are we coming up to and yeah great okay. So the next item on the agenda is this copyright date, which hasn't actually moved since last.

A

This is the very.

C

Exact yeah, so the copyright up, it's ready to go book, review it and I'll be landing in later on. There, copyright Ripert lets the storing the original graph reckoning. Okay,.

A

That's the okay, that's actually the next issue, which is the copyright restoring the copyright, copyright that one the date and I'm to be honest, I'm, not sure how to proceed here on the date, one. The questions which is can reroute the or change the date on the copyrights, or should we what we should we do and there's just you know typical back and forth about legals that we don't really have definitive answers on.

A

A

Okay, I'm going to suggest that we say James posted a good summary last week about what the questions are about: copyright dates and I'm going to suggest that we punt them up to the board since we're just going back and forth and pretending. We know what we're talking about here, so I'm going to take that text and send it to the board and see if the board, either the board wants to answer it or send it, send it to the board's legal committee. So that's how, since we have nothing else to do with.

A

Okay- and so the next item is the one that James just mentioned, which is the copyright text, which is about restoring the original copyright with giant that was removed at the beginning of I/o genius. That's still in that state, so then the PR is ready to go. Then James will get that probably landed this week, I guess and that there was the second PR which still always under discussion, I. Believe my little.

C

Antimatter tomorrow, then, of course, I miss you much much about the opinion. So we'd have a little favor John.

A

That is issue number. Those listening in issue number 174 in the tsc repo. If anyone's interested in that background next item is the revised membership rules. Now this is something we've been going back and forth on trying to get some just trying to clarify a few things. Just fix up a little you little things, but also adding some attendance rules for tsc membership. Now we do have votes for this from robbing the issue.

A

1 2 3, 4 5 out of now 12, because jesse is not 12 and it needs to be two thirds, so we actually need to get 29 folks at eight votes.

A

Yeah we need to get 28 votes, so we have two-thirds rule for changing membership rules. So we got. We got an additional boat in their second.

A

A

You so we got a plot, another plus one from Fred Fodor. So that's six Josh! You haven't voted yet, but your brand new so well. They actually did that vote Josh. You gave it an lgtm. Do stand by that.

G

His vote I think so. Our Brooks comment today was interesting kind of thing about it: yeah I'm, still plos one.

A

So, yes, that's the that's the hangar. So, instead of having a vote we, the problem we have is that is now Burt- has raised some concerns, which is that his boat on the call sorry back and forth. We will be noted now. I didn't I, know, okay, so Bert's concerned on Anna Reed. This is what, if, instead of having attendance well, we we required TLC members to vote.

A

If you don't vote on, say eighty percent of the motions you're out I, don't think I think this is much more in line with the TRC's role, which is determine what the consensus is and cut, not if there seems to be none. It's also much easier to track this new rule, incentivizes joining the phone meeting, implying that that this is the most important thing TSM&O should do, but it isn't per se it does. It doesn't precise to me like chasing rabbits to do the Jews.

A

They actually have I think it also conflicts with the general goal of communicating and synchronously as much as possible. So in retrospect, I'm 95 over the rule, so he's checking his right back. So.

A

James, how would you like to proceed here, because I know that the discussion is only three hours old? Shall we just just take it back to github for now and discuss them? Oh.

C

We can think about to get up I'd like I'd like to close on this, and it's proved we're obviously having a situation right now. We're just getting enough hope to provide the Charter, for any reason, is, is pain so, whether it's intended for post, we still aren't getting enough participation, so I don't see how changing it exposed faculties going to help. If she doesn't think.

C

So I had a problem bringing it back to get up with the session, but I really don't want to practice out much longer. Don't even set me.

A

That's fine um so like you can about, we take it back to get out for now, since this is only three hours old, we can't really just force a vote right now, so how about you in that thread set the expectation.

A

This is coming back for a vote next week unless things change but have a discussion there with bird and anyone else that wants to engage I tend to agree that I'm not sure that it makes much difference whether it's voting or attending a meeting they're both you know you could sit in a meeting and just and just be there and you can also throw votes and it's just as easy.

A

In fact, it's probably easier throwing votes on github and you know just getting over your yield six-month hump just by throwing a vote so either way, I don't think it matters, but let's take that to get home so.

H

I want to bring up I. Think part of the thing here was to make sure that the people who are essentially actually add voting rights, then more people who are still like up to date with everything so that one there is a vote like not everything needs to be explained necessarily there again. If you understand what I'm saying, I'm not sure that tracking meetings is necessarily the best way to like track that sort of thing, of course, but I'm not sure there is a good way either so yeah.

G

Like it's a valid, what Bert says is valid, but it's kind of like what are our options to to kind of encourage it. You know they shouldn't I think we ended up with phone as the least that the best option among I.

B

Think that also some of the other work groups were kind of looking to it as a as a pattern to use. You know in case it's similar cases wearing other people. Hadn't showed up in quite a long time, yeah actually I.

E

B

Think those spaces the votes is going to help. Not that that you know is the reason why it would be the right or wrong answer. But it's.

C

Really, a participation fool, alright man. It may be that we need to redefine attendance, so it's not just showing up the meeting, but maybe it's participating in the ghetto threat. So if somebody has not participated in the indicative conversation and as a shown up committing and signals that you know and that's six weeks times, then its standard run right.

C

Maybe we just need to take a pic establish than finding what participation.

E

Yes, I mean I kind of agree with everything that's been said, one thing I want to throw out. You know. One of them may be a reason that we're getting a little pushback is that meeting attendance is tricky for some people based on time zones.

E

We have an issue open to look like rotating time meeting or meetings at times and went on, and so maybe that's like the sort of where this issue is and why we're getting pushed back from certain people watching on mostly you're in Europe, which this is kind of a bad time for folks in Europe right now. So maybe that's something that sort of needs to be taken on in conjunction with this, maybe that what may be taking on that work could be. What would help alleviate some of the concerns around meeting attendance.

B

Yeah I'm, also in favor of you, know, and/or your active in the issues. If somebody's you know very active in the issues but can't make the meetings, it still seems like they're, active and contributing right.

C

It's, that is to say, sorry, I think as the pbi kids upaya suppose, but we have somebody that collects difficult for listener CSC, so they never pose and they were pretty spitting the conversation but they're still like oh I, get up that cannot count towards gse boarded face right face it. They have to be participating in QC to tell you when in case she calls for both it needs to be participating in the road. Even if it's going to change. So I think I think what I need to deal with this point.

C

Taking birth plummets into consideration is just define it as not an attended schools out of participation, role and they've been fine with GSP participation means.

C

E

B

C

I I'll take a couple of days to be done and in Connecticut English.

E

Something else we can consider if this turns out to be a major roadblock to getting this land is. We could split this out into two PRS or do this in two stages. One is updating, basically everything, but the attendance rule get that landed versus one of the big things in that was changing from requiring a two-thirds vote to just a simple majority, and maybe if we get that in first and then we can like tube8 the attendance rule separately.

E

Maybe that will make it easier to kind of get some of this stuff through and get through some of the stuff that we really need to get landed.

F

At buddies, one.

A

Okay, look that James that's in your hands on a no and then I know the it's been a while and um you'd really like to get it laughs. But um if you need just set a expectation for when you're calling for an official vote- and we will have a meet of meeting vote, you know I just have meaningless without doing anything. Chris voting as well, but just call for a time for voting. I did I mentioned in an email that we were going to try and do it today.

A

I didn't say that we would, but we would try, but we on github there. It needs to be called specifically that there will be a vote and then we can, you know, do the proper vote tallying, even if there's disagreement, but for now, since there is disagreement, we need do need to try the consensus seeking.

C

Yep no problem.

A

Okay, moving on last item on the agenda here is: there's an issue open in the community community committee, repo issue number seven, which is proposing a single code of conduct for the org now William. Would you like to give us some background this and new tag this? So? Can you tell us what you'd let us discuss to discuss here.

E

I actually tagged it because I believe James said that he wanted to bring it up.

C

A the competition has come up with within the community of meetings about the code of conduct and they can't allow it to more easily be.

E

C

E

Idea is there would.

C

Basically be to move the code of conduct into its own repo, but then you know it's like no.

E

C

And then link to it from all the different places that we needed needed from right now, it's just in a room to those of those poor dirt group. It's really that simple! It's not changing the COC at this point. It's just moving.

C

um Now changes to come down the road depending on in what direction the community and PS you are facing. That was getting my number, but please separate get out, but make it all the genes here to have a compass.

E

I'm going to add a little bit more context to that, but, right now the code of conduct is I, believe it's in these were like working group template and so the code of conduct, it's in some cases, is like linked back to the main one, but in other cases has been copied and pasted and so they've kind of gotten out of sync in a couple of places, and this is just kind of an effort to make sure that we're all on singing. In that you know everyone is using the same one.

E

Just you know which hopefully should make I know understanding of the code of conduct enforcement and all that a little more easier, a little more transparent, and you know expectable come on.

B

The attorney is there any concern like it seems to me like it's just the right thing to do so.

A

Had changes to this get approved since we're now talking about a code of conduct that spans multiple ownership groups.

C

It would typo on there I think it's still fall under the chin teeth virtue, yeah.

F

Talking about ownership, transferring out of the tsc I think it's just literally having better act like access to it across all of the repos rights.

A

So is it a so? What will the community committee use use the same code of conduct for its activities like it's doing some moderation stuff now, yeah.

F

So that was kind of this is why the whole conversation came up was like. We ended up going on like a bunch of different rabbit holes, but the big one there was that we do not and in any circumstance want to be operating like it, doesn't make any sense for the community committee to have a different code of conduct, then the tsc, because we're all one project.

F

So we didn't want that split to happen. So we just wanted to make sure that that the code of conduct continues to be talked about in one place and discussed and reviewed in one place, and that was when I think William or James had discovered, maybe Brian how many different places that had existed, and that was why so, like any conversation that we have in the future about the code of conduct so needs to be in the same place.

F

It would just be nice for it to be in its own repo, where we can all chat about it. So what.

A

If the, what if the community committee wants to make changes in the tsc, doesn't.

C

It does another thing: it's under the current post, those yeah I'm here at the Elvis is hannahs. Ownership is going to go drumming Fife legit.

F

D

F

I get, I think, but I think what rod is trying to bring up is that those rules are there that doesn't mean that the humans don't complicate it. I mean I think, under that circumstance it's that we have to. We still have to be its diplomacy at that point. Any the changes that I see coming down the road in terms of the code of conduct is only from like an enforcement perspective, because code of conducts don't have teeth without enforcement.

F

So that's even like enforcement is a terrible like policie word, but its guidelines on, like you, know the cool things that the moderation group has been doing on executing code of conduct and people. The hey ba was like codifying that or like finally bringing in the IRC moderation.

F

You know sort of code of conduct that exists outside of but needs to be reworded a bit. It's like those sorts of things, so I don't think that it's it's not going to be anything. That's like brand spanking new that hasn't been tested out by the tsc than anything that they've been doing anyway, so I, but I do I know that it is the touchy astanax for any open sort or not any. It's not the touch. Yes, it is.

B

A painful thing: everyone.

F

To 11 I get the concern there I, but it in terms of how we've written it so far the tsc owns it, don't sit, still owns it and and I don't see that changing and you need time to. You talked about I guess.

A

I guess I mean we aren't old med get heavier anyway, but I guess the just to extrapolate on. My concern is that the community committee is a different management group, but is that held separate discussions and has separate concerns, and it may want to take things in a particular direction, and so, if just but to get the changes that it wants to make, then it's got to go and then convince the tsc to make those changes, potentially just for things that only impact the things of the community community is doing so.

F

Go ahead, Brian.

E

It's entirely possible that will come up. That's kind of a bridge I would prefer to cross when we get there like until we have a crop, a concrete case. Okay, this is something the community community that is sort of at odds with the the tsc needs like until you have something concrete to point out.

E

I prefer to just go with the assumption that it's possible for us to share a code of conduct and then like, if the times that we need to or something that we could discuss it then, but yeah I prefer to kick that camp down the road and just kind of leave things in place as they are now. Okay, when we do come into conflict, you know it's going to be the usual thing we do with anything else. You know consensus seeking well, I, guess.

B

The other thing, too is: are we actually saying that everybody has to use that same one, or are we making it easy for everybody to use the same one unless they absolutely want something different? We're.

C

Making it easier for them to reuse it are our current rules allow for groups to choose their own? It is provided as part of the templates. It is, you know it is babe default if it works, groups is not good ones, and that is the one that applies, but our current evidence allows working group the economy to create that and the same thing what it was.

C

It existed, xfinity fittings if they reach a situation where the default one does not work for them, then they could shoot to go their own way right and everything that they can change that default one, but I'm a beauty scruples. Oh, is this current processes? Don't change it's just where that thing is managed that one that's awesome.

A

C

A

Goes for things managed under the stun to the seat TSD as well. For example, what? If the CTC wants to change its climate, it's repo, but the tsc, doesn't want it changed in its repo or elsewhere that it manages. Potentially, we could have a fawking of the code of conduct. At that point, I mean this. That's purely hypothetical I don't see if she's around I, don't even okay. In that case, you could just unwind it and say instead of pointing to this common repo, you point to a new version of it. That's local right.

B

And even if you did that, it might still make sense to put them together in the same repo, you know there could be here's the default and then here's the special one for other groups. Just so that if you want to go and look and compare them, it's easy to find them all and.

A

Okay, look I, don't think this is too controversial, then, just as long as the communicated committee is aware that it's effectively seeding that over to the tsc and then we'll need to take place with the tsc for things that may not even impact the tsc yeah.

F

I mean I think that yeah, if there is anything, that's exclusively the scope of the community committee like then that will have to be addressed as like. You can't be putting this in to the you can't be shoving this into the code of conduct repo that is owned by the TSD, because that doesn't make sense to be applying rules to someone that didn't get any say in it. You know like because you guys get the ultimate say anywhere. Yeah I have questions about this, but I'll paying you all online about it. So.

C

Just be setting up that repo so that only the chips members have breaks open up, er that supposed to be cut apart next into that anything can open a piata suggest to change, but it requires GSD approval to land.

F

A

Then this going to need to be p @ p RS across every repo and approval from each of the groups is responsible for that.

C

Yep button by right, again, I think I kept them. It's.

A

Going to be separate, p oz for each of the repos, where we have a code of conduct and then approval from each of those groups that they are okay with that, which is you know, you're going to get to the CTC, and perhaps perhaps things might get hairy but we'll see I think.

B

Most a lot of the work groups just won't care right. It's like okay, there's a common one will just point to it, but they will be able to kiss yeah.

A

I'm sure you're right bellisima.

B

Hopefully not too many.

C

More group doesn't want to change. You know if they want to have their own options and find Soviet. When we allow the message of that now, it's nothing.

A

Yeah, like I, is there anything else to discuss on this, because it sounds like that this can be taken to github for next step.

A

Now: okay, let's move on then to public Q&A. This is the time when anyone listening to the live stream can ask questions of the TFC or have input to the meeting. If you'd like to make a comment as well so drop that into the YouTube comments. Ideally, but you could also potentially comment on the github issue for this meeting, which is issue number 222 in the tsc repo and the no j is all that will will give this a minute for the live stream to catch up to us.

A

H

I mean this question is pretty low to be so fast. What is the best way to start learning nodejs and get a job? Anyone wanna.

A

Open source, that's the best way go to nodes, called bio and work through some curriculum there and deal with yourself and the open source profile, showing that you know how to do node. That's the best way, I think.

C

Help any way I silence coat fastest is going to the issue tracker and just saying I'll be open issues like that several weeks doing variant.

E

And also to piggyback off of what rod said if there's a local node school chapter, you know next to where you lived. If I go there cuz, then you can actually meet and hang out with other node folks and start networking things like that, which is also helpful. Yep.

A

Absolutely I'll.

E

A

People recruiting in those venues too, because lots of companies need know people.

F

The education repo on github also has a number of resources that they suggest, including node node school, in order to kind of hop through the different parts of learning node, but will have a more comprehensive right out of that as well as the certification comes out, because we have to have that path documented for people. That's.

A

Cool is that good is that content gonna make it onto the website at some point, oh yeah.

F

Yeah, it's gonna be everywhere, because we just want people it's nice to be able to kind of codify that path for folks, even if it's only one way, it's not the way, but I think it's exciting to get to hear a bunch of really awesome people from our project kind of give that input and say, like these are great resources. These are paths that we followed. This is a great way to at least get to this point.

F

Going to be on github, as well as the website.

H

Someone else asks should I use, math intensive stuff. What node.

A

Depends on your use case, if you are mixing that with like, if you're trying to do a high put high-throughput web server, then you probably shouldn't be wasting too much time on maths.

A

That's the kind of question: if you've got technical questions about node, then we've got a great repo. The way you can open those questions which no Ju / help and then there's a full crew there that it's much more capable of answering technical questions like that. Yes,.

H

I will link that in the chat. Thanks for the reminder, Oh.

A

Flow, if you'd, if you use, know if you tag node and stack overflow, then I think that's pretty well manned as well.

H

Oh yeah, just a really quick note on that note is single threaded so generally for computation stuff, there might be better choices based on your use case, talk to know without knowing more details. Oh alright, those are the two questions that were in EU tube, see me anywhere else. We can leave it open for mana if you'd like.

A

I think we've had the call out for a while, so we probably should just close it up and then I'll just double check that there's nothing new in that issue for the meeting.

A

Okay, so next meeting in two weeks, don't forget there is a public calendar for meetings and events that happen across the github org that sorry, it costs the technical group at William managers and details for that are available in various places, including minutes for each of the meetings. So, if and if you, if you need help getting that calendar attached, then let one of us know when we'll see if we can help so thanks everyone for joining and we'll see you all online thanks.

H

Everyone thanks.