Node.js Website Redesign, 9 Apr 2020

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: Node.js Website Redesign Initiative meeting - 9th April 2020

Description

Repo: https://github.com/nodejs/nodejs.dev/

A

The idea that we have project boards for taking you know a particular feature or something you know that we plan and we're executing, and we want to follow the cards. I guess like homepage, so so you could kind of see, as you know, you're, not cluttering yourself, you're, looking at homepage as a particular feature, and that worked well for for features. But when I tried to reason about what an okay our board would look like it wasn't it wasn't really fun. You know, like I, didn't know what kind of columns or you know.

A

What can we do to be able to relate things to okay, ours and I thought? Okay, maybe we should explore month stones. We did talk about this a bit on us in a Sunday meeting. If I'm, not mistaken and milestones I think are under issues.

A

The difference between project and the labels versus milestones is that you can only have one milestone for an issue or a PR. You can't have it under more than one label or under more than one project. The milestone is just the one and and basically I. Think the trickle down here is is how I would like to take our okay, our so okay, ours lead to some milestones which which then allow everyone to say well.

A

This issue drives toward this objective and those milestones would then be potentially key results that we're driving at and all the issues related to them would be underneath them, and so that would be. You know just one example and then I guess T one features so yeah, so the net Liffe I thing I did I, didn't fully think this through right, I, just I'm, proposing it as a workflow that that is parallel to projects, so people use projects in the way that is functional right now and that's good, and this is not contending with it.

A

But just a parallel system to say you know, I'm sure nullify is a key result of some of our one of our objectives, and so you know by doing a better management effort than I can I guess. We would have milestones that you know trace back to the king, okay, our dog, and you said the dock itself landed on master.

A

So here's also you know my best way. To paraphrase what we discussed in that meeting for the first set, did that kind of relate the idea.

B

Thanks for explaining that my initial impression of this is that, if that helps people visualize what they're working on and how it relates to okay, our is like that define our scope, I'm plus one, for it is this something that, like you mentioned, that people are already using projects, and that seems to be working quite well. Is this something that has been tried like people already sort of using it? Or is this something that we'd need to implement? It spend a little bit of time just building up.

A

So I think I think the best way to answer this question is this: formant is borrowed from previous experience that was used in I, think Kong, Kong and other places, obviously so what what I? What I just conveyed is? Really? How do you go like?

A

How would you add, linkable things here that point people to a dashboard of some sort or a you know a syndicated thing like issue or project or something so that they would know how what progress is happening here for us, so I would say a and like a level three, you know, sub list like us, nested list under this key result would say milestones this milestone in that milestone. You know, you would add, add links literally to the milestones that contribute to this key result of this objective.

A

So it's mainly just a framework that I personally played around with to make sure it would work, but I think I'm, just proposing it as here this could work. Do we want to do this, and if we want to do this, it might be actually something that you know. Kham Kham and other places may want to borrow as well. So you know we're inventing it together. I guess sounds fair.

B

Yeah as the next action adding links to this one to this particular document, so folks could actually click on, say each individual objective or key result and go and find issues. Your PRS that were in progress, I'll be wonderful, yeah.

A

So not Elif I would be one of the bullet points under this one, if I'm not mistaken, maybe I don't know and then, when they click on Natalja phi. As a bullet point under this key result, they would come to this view and then they can tell from this view, how far along right. So it's like zero percent, complete I'm sure when we're using it. It would actually not just reflect the example, but rather have have more accurate representation. Some closed issues, better descriptions, yeah I, guess that's it.

B

Thanks I think it's a good use of get-ups features and process that folks would be familiar with if they're, using, say agile, which seems to use the concept of milestones so I'm plus my word any any comments from folks here in the meeting.

C

I think I think so far. This is a good good progress and good start, but I. You know I feel that you know. I would like to see that us, you know, have a more collaborative effort in terms of getting to those milestones. You know like cuz, cuz I'm, not I'm, not familiar. My I've been trying to figure out like the schedule for for like getting all this bug, fixes and stuff like that like, but there's a lot been a lot of back and forth.

C

So I'm not like I'm, not not sure as to how we're going to be solving. You know the issues as well as doing development going further there, just because if there's been so much back and forth, you know we had to hackathon, but then we got a cancelled, I'm, not sure like what's happening. So I would like to see that part, but I think this is a good start in terms of getting started. Yeah.

A

So the the concern that you raised right there I think that is why I was driven to look into this. It's a shirt personally, you know so so we can have a lot of side channel back and forth, and then we find like three people are converging in one way and you know others are in a different way and then everyone will say, but I followed. The okay are right. So so the idea that is chainable means that there's always context and clarity as you click through things before you add more things.

A

Okay and I thought. That's really. The intent here is that if you're going to dig and say I'm gonna put something here, then you will know that there is already something else or you know if you're the first one that deep into the okay are itself and then, if that's the case, then we also have to add to the contributor doc that this is the process that we want to follow until it doesn't work for something and then we can improve it.

A

Okay, right so yeah all right. Thanks.

B

Any other comments from folks.

B

Hey I'll take the silence as the end of this particular discussion. If you do have something on your mind and you prefer to share it async, please, the issue is still open. Its issue for, for one, no jazz depth feel free to continue discussion there.

B

So there is it okay. If we remove the agenda attack from this one.

A

Yeah, so could I suggest that we just indicate what we decided in the meeting here as well, because I think some of like we want to have a label to say, approve the meeting or you know some. Some of the issues have have like mysterious context missing in the end, and then we have too many of those that we don't really know what we decide in the meeting. So how would we summarize this outcome? I.

B

I just put in some notes into the minutes, I will copy that over it's very short. Ideally, these these minutes are more complete and we're actually able to pair them into users reference, but we haven't been doing that for a bit, but for now I'll copying the notes for this particular section into a comment label at consensus, and if anyone wants to disagree that again feel free to comment async all.

A

Right, thank you so much that definitely addresses it. Thanks yeah.

B

Thanks Sully thanks for work working through this with us, I will move on to the next issue issue for 38, which is requesting access for a node.js crowd in github user to integrate with crowdin dropping the issue into the chat here and let's just dig into it.

B

I believe this was opened by Zeke, who was here last meeting two weeks ago to give us a little bit of context around this. If.

D

You need something I can give you more context, but if, like I don't see here any like, we just need some access to your repo to be to make possible configure integration between github and crawled in because we already configure the connection between no GS website and no js' Docs, and we still waiting for your approval and for your like permissions, we're waiting that you give us permission to no js' crowd in account because we still need it.

D

If you have any questions or objections, I'm here to answer and give you more context, but in general we're just waiting pure like approval and actions.

D

Okay, rich already rich ready to do this. For now, if the team haven't any objections, if everyone agree, we can close it and give a permission. I'm.

B

Personally, plus one on this I'm sorry, we've been a blocker on this one. It it seems, like y'all, have been ready to move forward on this and we might have been the ones we've been dragging our feet, but I have no personal objections. I'm really excited the the work in ITN has been progressing and yeah very exciting. To incorporate some of this into our work, no objections, any comments from the team.

C

No I think I think we can go forward with this I think you know it's been a while and I think it's a good good thing that we getting it done.

E

D

Like everyone, okay, then say it's: okay,.

C

Someone has a question trot as a question.

E

Apologize, if that's my apologize, if if this is answered in the issue already, but does the bot nearly need right access or doesn't need administrative access, I.

D

Think we provide the least of I'm, not sure actually what what kind of access we need, but we need to have a right permissions to the repo and so probably should be admin or maintainer I'm, not sure. Let's.

C

D

Yeah I think yes, because having access to protein mogea scrubbed in accounts away, I can't check what kind of permissions I we already have. Four other repos. So.

E

Container access- and if that proves to be not enough, just another issue or just paying.

D

E

Twitter or something okay,.

D

Great I will try to integrate. Thank you. Thank you. It's so quick. It's done yeah! Thank you. It's great great news. So, let's always the next question. I mean agenda. Wonderful,.

B

That was efficient exactly what these meetings are for unblocking stuff, okay, I'll just make a quick note that we have resolved this and for now, and is it okay to remove the agenda label from this from 4:38 Alex.

D

B

Seems like it it's okay, I just wanted to get a go at that we're gonna remove the word.

E

Gender, so doesn't show up on the agenda at the next meeting. Oh yeah.

B

But yeah thanks for putting this you through great next item, ci, consider alternatives. This is an ongoing discussion issue. 436 stopping this into the chat right now.

B

There is also a related pull request for 60 that is still open. That is linked in that, but I'm I won't drop it in there. Just do not add noise and confuse people, but if you scroll down you can access, it is what is the current state of the discussion for issue 436.

B

Already seems like there might not be any strong opinions in from folks in the meeting about issue 436 and person who opened it was unavailable today. So unless we did strongly, someone did strongly want to discuss it. I punt this to the next meeting, so.

A

Can I just raise just one one? One related point here we were talking about net la vie, and this issue is one of those issues that relates to that topic. So I'm not sure for picking up this topic in this meeting. I don't know if there's any input, maybe from folks on whether or not we want to push this. You want to yeah, so so I think it's a topic that keeps coming up every time we try to you know, write code and we're reminded that the Google JCB run can sometimes be a funny experience.

A

So so any folks here we want to talk that a bit I.

E

Got to go in a couple minutes, but the GCV run stuff has kind of been a bit of a blocking problem for me, the last 24 hours or so trying to get some updates and take github actions that you know resulting in security warnings from github.

C

E

It doesn't reliably the the post t, the the post, a comment hook doesn't seem to be working. It either doesn't work reliably or else there's there's something going on. I, don't know what it is, but there's a bunch of PRS that that that I've been reluctant to land, because because I think one of them might be breaking that that functionality and I don't know. If that is really anything. We can talk much about here right now, but there's that.

F

Yeah I had the same kind of pain of GCB run, so I did notice that I think his name's Nathan started using github actions in the master branch. I, don't know if that's gonna help, it probably will in some some way, but I I kind of brought this up a while ago to consider alternatives in this way.

F

So was speaking about as as a user as a developer, not being able to see the logs in the CI is kind of a big deal for me like disappointment, try he had a failure and we can't see why so.

A

Yeah, whatever.

F

Whatever alternative we decide on, we need to be able to see that, whether it's, whether it's that will fire something else, we need to be able to see your logs while still kind of maintaining.

F

Security with any special keys and stuff yeah.

A

So so I think I think we tried to solve the GCD run problem by saying, let's document the you know funny results that can come out that we basically have no logs and we're trying to you know, use our mental ability to try to infer from the unknown and that wouldn't work. Obviously, so so definitely this idea that if you know the worst, you should get a log that tells you don't go crazy.

A

Trying all these all you know permutations and- and so the log is a good thing, but also the second thing that I keep also feeling inclined to want to bring up is if I fork, and somebody is convinced pyaari me against my branch on my user, not on notice that you know that they should also be able to use the free open source for it forever kind of CI infrastructure. So they are able to not wait until they are merging the big collaborative effort against nodejs dev to be allowed to run it through CI.

A

That says it will pass. So you know folks creating collaborative effort on an idea away from nodejs from the nodejs repo itself.

A

Should be able to know that they are not like imagining, it will work because they're using their own tools write their own CI, so yeah so inheritance or transcript transferability of the CI is I. Think the point I'm sure I said it better before in other meetings.

B

While we don't seem to have a clear how he said alternative that we all agree on words like we definitely want to use this as an alternative. There seems to be consensus that GCB run is not ideal, and it's a consistent feeling over the past couple of weeks, two months at the very least, would it be fair to say that our next step here would be to seriously explore alternatives and swap it out for something else, I think.

A

Natalja Foy the experiment that depended of wasn't wasn't the only nullify issue related to this. There were issues open about net lephant, nesaf I, already a while back, but basically when, when I saw then doing notify on his end when he was screen sharing once I basically feel that this is a solution. I don't do a lot of CI stuff, so so I personally feel inclined that net liffe I potentially could be a solution.

A

As long as we keep in mind that we don't want to complicate the config that you would still need to be on the nodejs repo that that's my my only you know so so if we have like the yeah mo configs and in the staging branch- and you fork that branch and then you have your own net supply account- and you know this repo is obviously free. It's open source, I'm, hoping we can make sure that this would still allow you to to do it free of charge as any user on get out.

A

If that's the case, I feel the CI solution is there and maybe what we want to do is voting whether or not people not voting.

C

A

You know consensus, you know: does anybody object to net Liffe I?

A

Would that be a better? You know way to try to take a step closer next meeting or do we want to take a step slower and say we don't have that step. Yet if.

B

We can get fast to a solution faster and it doesn't severely handicapped us. I think to the contrary. What's being suggested would actually be an improvement that people would welcome. I I think that we could go faster if Netflix, why is the proposed solution?

B

Reasonable next step could be to just start using it and see if it's it'll work out so.

A

Can they suggest the idea that was floating in some of the hackathons? Can we create a like a branch called like temporary staging, and can we make sure that we have privileges to set this up? I know Ben knows how to do that.

A

I'm sure other people on the team are interested in many would know, but I I just don't want us to model this out of the out of the repo itself, and then you know start hitting all those repo related challenges so can can we allow people to model this on a branch, a separate branch and give them authority to do that? I think this is really what what's been getting in that way other than if people have time. Obviously,.

B

Are there any permission, restrictions right now that would prevent people prevent like this action, so.

A

I defer that to someone with some CI experience, I think then I know for sure you kind of know on your end, what settings you needed so.

F

Yeah I think we probably want to do something similar to the way the translation team is doing. They have a like a separate blog account and in that account is what connects to the network, I and then I think that might be a way to do it, but I think to answer the question you yeah. There is probably maintainer access permissions, I'm I'm, not really sure.

B

Well, if we do follow the model similar to I 18, and that's then something that we can probably push through with permissions faster than at least they got it specifically because we had to work through this right. I.

F

Dunno know if I has a github app cuz gap has a marketplace so that that's I think how it is.

F

So you need to give their app permission into the repo.

A

Can I can I suggest we will kind of want one person to have a little bit more permission than the rest of the team doing it. That way is basically because you don't want not to know who used that permission. So so you know I'm just adjusting having a go-to person at this point to have a little bit more permission to see us through this, and then we can agree on what what governance or you know, what what what?

A

What structure of permission would be needed to make sure the continuity in the project you know there there will definitely be a champion or something that can hand the torch as they you know, move to different projects. If that's the case so.

A

Does does it feel like somebody will need additional permissions and if that's the case, can we say, can you know anybody volunteer or I would actually volunteer been at this point? You know because I wouldn't know so yeah.

B

um Well, we have Alex on the call, and since we are thinking about using the ISU MN model Alex, if you're, if you're still with us, we're wondering if this model that you use for having a bot to connect and that look like the. What was the rationale behind this? Was it about more about maintainability or like where open source contributors?

B

We didn't necessarily want to put a lot of expectations necessarily on one particular contributor, or was it more a technical solution to the problem that I seen and was facing to make their translations available?.

D

Not sure that I understand your questions so you're asking about what that's.

B

Right, what was the rationale for using the, but we seem to be leaning towards using a similar model to allow us to use metal if I.

D

Okay, so I think I understand so from from my experience, using this kind of model like ever, both in open source, it's not very comfortable but I'm, not sure they're. Another, like another approach that we can use in open source, because if we ask some specific user to connect their personal account and if this user stopped responding in some way it will hurt.

D

It will be hard to like give an access to your net if I can't the same thing with no G as both but I I spent, maybe a few months to figure it out. Who is the owner of this boat, how to connect? How to integrate and now I figured out that Zeke is owner and they are store somewhere in no GS admin storage.

D

They are password in encrypted style, so I'm not sure how it how it's working and I'm still have like some blockers with that. But I ice I tried to find another way, but I I didn't find anything better than that. We have so I. I can't actually give you any advice about that. So I just have some dots and that's it so I. Don't know the best way, oh and yeah.

B

Yeah, that is very helpful for us here, because that is I think the essence of the problem we want to avoid. We we want to make sure that whatever we put in place right now is not something that will need us or prevent a create blockers in the future. I.

D

Don't know probably research about.

D

Password login password system for open source because I don't know how to how it's possible so like share login password with everyone, but with some limited scope of team, so I don't know how how it work, how it works. I've never had a chance to find something like this. So I don't know, but yeah Crowden bought its and this model is, is also contained. Some problems with access with time, lockers time, wasters.

A

So so unmet laughs, I. There are a number of issues, but actually it's under nassif ICMS repo about github for workflow I.

A

Think what we're trying to say now, because, like 20 minutes to the end of the meeting, is that we kind of want to look what net LeFay issues related to this kind of workflow look like, because obviously some other people had had a similar desire and I think they say that when someone who has write access Forks a repo, they kind of want to take that work. You know not enough.

A

I build configuration with them, so it becomes like, like a way for people to contribute and and get their you know deployments or whatever in place. So we want to maybe create a an offline discussion, not offline necessarily but I mean out of the racing hours of the meeting. Because someone would champion this and then you know we would come come back with bullet points.

A

Here's what we're going to do and those would be in an issue and then you would seek the consensus, I guess next meeting I think this really sounds more more like we need to be looking, then more than trying to describe something. You know with that without seeing what's out there right.

B

Now, thank you for helping to time boxes solving so as an ex action for this one. We're gonna put a pin in this and come if not async have a discussion we'll come back to those next meeting. Yeah.

A

I think we can discuss setting up that meeting out of box meeting on slack right after this meeting. Okay.

F

B

I am moving on to issue 412 issue. 412 is merge website, redesign teams- we've discussed this, but I think the agenda label was riad 'add because maybe we did not have a resolution.

B

Everyone here, I, believe, is part of now the website redesign team, so that is website that redesign slash members not know just dev I.

B

I think, unless someone had something to add to this, I might put a pin in this, because because this seems like the offline discussion was still continuing and for now we don't seem to have any issues.

B

Any comments before we move on.

C

B

Let's move on to this one issue: three: three: three: no just a Deb how to install or no demo section I'm, sorry, the titles lighten up a bit I'm, going to open it up first and dropping the issue in the chat as well.

B

All right, I believe the last. This comment here was from October.

B

This one I'm not clear what the intended discussion was for the meeting. If anyone has additional contacts, please.

C

Is it the one for the node devil select section? That's.

B

C

A

Yeah I think yeah, so I think then, and I hacked on this Randy time's right, I'm, not sure, maybe I'm mistaking this, but basically we had a Gatsby flow that was created before the structure at the website and the idea was they would build a website as contributors added parts of the markdown files that we'll build to it. But then we had areas in the site that was basically the demo pages, as shown in the figure ended India and the contents there should be coming from markdown files, but it wasn't.

A

It wasn't easy to use the existing pipeline and I kind of winged it and put together a you know, bastardized pipeline kind of thing, and we want to really implement this better if we're going to go ahead with that feature.

A

So the context here is this is stale. There was probably a PR at some point and I'm not comfortable with landing. My own PR and I should probably say that in the PR itself. So do we want to I, don't know like maybe Ben. Do you have some input on next steps on this, or do we want to put on the back burner.

F

F

Yeah yeah I did work on this for a bit, but since it was in a draft form and still in a draft form, I can't contribute directly to that branch. So I think that's what the problem is so, but also the code is not in a react way. It looks with more jQuery than react so.

C

Yeah I, don't Tom Tom I, don't have information yet.

F

So yeah it still needs a lot of work before I was murdered. I was also good. It's kind of moved away from the original design in the design there's tabs, but in the implementation it's a drop-down menu.

A

Yeah, so so yeah so I was just thinking about what we would need to get this implemented, and so yeah I would probably.

F

A

Yeah, so so I guess an issue we would open at this point. How do we want to create the second content pipeline? Because the way the content is generated right now, it seems to be learned content, and this is not learn. Content like whatever I was like hacking at with with zero knowledge of Gatsby, like I, didn't even know it existed, maybe a week before that that was my best approximation with limited know-how in documentation right.

F

A

F

With Gatsby we have a plug-in for markdown, that's what the word country is using, so we should do the same. Maybe we can make a home page since this is part of the home page and putting on I think for each maybe for each tab. This each tab is a how to install for the specific OS text for one went file for each tab and yeah.

C

F

That's kind of very set up so that.

C

F

Be any meat we shouldn't need to do any kind of new work for like as a pipeline to parse markdown in general,.

A

Html, so can I clarify what I was hitting? Is that we're doing like us? You know wild card pipeline, so I was running into this problem where it's starting lecture on got to learn. Things are like getting and learned and things are showing up where I completely. You know like understood now how Gatsby worked. That's, how I learn you know, but but then I didn't know whether there is a convention. If that, because the file naming convention, you know everything being numbered, the means in a one. Oh yeah, you know kind of high-level.

A

F

Don't know who did the numbering like that? It's not really scalable. Okay, that's what happens when you want to add something between like four and five. You have to be number everything: minus five yeah.

A

I think the context was collecting from many people who were at Vancouver and on the tail end on that. So, like I said, the structure of the website itself did not exist when they created all these things, and then they designed a workflow around it. So maybe these restructuring that folder, where we have all these subfolders and making a folder for learn a folder for you know putting contents and folders or represent the hierarchy. The logical hierarchy would be a good step to say that a minimal configuration does not leave people with their.

A

You know hitting this unknown inference of a wild-card, because adding a folder for something that is not learned should not also add a dealer in.

B

The interests of time I wonder if we could generally suggest that this discussion, it seems like it could be, had a sink yep, at least us members. Would it be alright if we move to the next item, so we could get covered yep.

B

B

I am just gonna drop 261 into the chat. That is. The download grid item will keep comments here to three minutes, or so it's okay to leave the agenda label on this one and the previous one as well. Should the conversation want to continue at the next name, any latest context from folks who have been working on the download grid or want to work on the download.

G

I was going to work on the Downloads. Don't release this page, but I didn't had time yet I'm going to pick up this weekend.

B

I'll just make a note of that here. Is this something that you're doing collaboratively or no.

G

We last weekend on that was the lexicon I couldn't manage to go to the next to the last meeting. So I don't know if another person is taking a look into that right now, if I know, if being a satire, Alex no house, if anyone is doing the downloads page, the releases page I.

C

Don't think anybody's doing it there that page.

G

Okay, well, as far as I know, no one was going. No one was doing that page. So that's why I picked it and because I forgot his name f4, that someone suggested that should be our priority. I, don't remember now, I.

B

Believe John was working on this.

G

B

But yeah it is also in our okay ours, because down the download grid is one of the most used features in the existing website and added like essentially we're reproducing that, so that we can get this out the door. Oh so I just updated here that you're taking this and we can move on to issue 127 five minutes left by you 127 is how do we want to add new members miles open this a while ago?

B

I think our process here has been, if folks want to contribute, we get them access. There hasn't been much gays, keeping as far as I'm aware.

B

Did anyone feel like adding something new to this I believe the person added the gender label isn't here today.

B

Already did I hear breathing I.

G

B

Going to say that.

G

Since, since he is not here right now, we probably should let these to be discuss on the next meeting. I, don't know it feels okay, okay, agreed.

B

I'll leave the label on so they can take a look next time. That's okay with me, and we are ending the meeting with four minutes to go, which is really good for us. We're typically like very much on the cusp of the hour. I'm gonna pause, the recording I mean stop it for now and then uploaded to YouTube later, since we weren't able to livestream.