►
From YouTube: Community Stream #23: Mike Soldner, part 1
Description
Community Stream #23: Mike Soldner, part 1
A
So
welcome
to
the
energy
labs
show.
My
name
is
cloud
toad,
a
a
ka,
Derek
winkworth.
You
can
follow
us
at
at
enemy
labs
on
Twitter.
You
can
follow
me
at
cloud
toad,
CL,
o
UD,
t
o
ad.
Also
on
Twitter,
and
today
we
have
a
pretty
good
show,
I.
Think
ahead
of
us
we're
doing
something
a
little
bit
different
this
time
around.
There's
two
things
that
we're
doing
different.
Actually,
one
is.
We
are
doing
this
on
a
Thursday
instead
of
a
Monday.
A
We
have
changed
the
time
that
we
are
doing
our
our
show
from
from
a
Monday,
because
most
of
our
guests
are
busy
on
Monday
and
according
to
statistics
and
numbers,
and
people
who
study
these
things
Thursdays
are
better
later
in
the
week
is
better
so
we're
we're
gonna
start
doing
this
on
Thursdays,
instead
of
Mondays
the
same
time
noon,
central
1:00
p.m.
Eastern
that
would
be
10
a.m.
on
Pacific
time,
but
just
just
doing
it
on
Thursdays.
A
The
second
thing
we're
doing
different
for
this
particular
show
is
that
we
are
pre,
recording
it
rather
than
doing
it
live,
so
this
is
not
actually
being
streamed
on
Twitch.
We're
just
gonna
post
as
if
you're
watching
this
you've
actually
clicked
on
it
under
YouTube
channel.
As
you
know,
by
now
we
are
not
streaming
this
on
Twitch.
A
Having
said
all
that,
thank
you
for
for
for
tuning
in,
we
have
a
pretty
good
show,
I.
Think
ahead
of
us.
We
have
a
guest
mic,
soltner
who's
gonna
he's
turns
out,
Mike
is
in
Wisconsin
and
he
lives
just
a
few
miles
for
me
and
I
did
not
know
this.
A
couple
months
ago,
I
put
out
a
tweet
that
said:
hey
I'm,
looking
for
people
to
come
on,
my
show
to
talk
about
automation
and
he
volunteered
and
over
the
course
of
our
conversation
we
both
realized.
A
A
A
C
B
I
guess
high
level,
the
nitty
gritties
out
it's
12
years,
12
years,
roughly
12
years
of
enterprise,
networking
experience
and
about
three
and
a
half
years
of
what
I
guess.
I
would
call
automation,
scripting
coding
experience
so
I'm
pretty
new
in
that
in
that
journey,
so
yeah
I
I
manage
a
network
in
Telecom
team
for
an
insurance
company
myself
and
predominantly
one
other
gentleman
do
all
of
the
like
the
scripting
automation,
we're
trying
to
get
one
of
our
other
engineers
is
kind
of
coming
up.
B
B
B
Still
have
to
still
have
to
do.
The
networking
work
still
keep
the
lights
on
that
sort
of
thing,
but
yeah
I
spent
all
that
stuff
was
12
years,
like
I
said,
probably
nine
of
them
at
a
different
company.
Where
you
didn't
even
hear
the
word,
automation
didn't
even
know
it
didn't
even
hear
the
word
Python.
Anything
like
that.
So.
A
B
We
yeah,
we
are
we've,
actually
we
started
getting
into
it
and
we
can
kind
of
get
into
the
Nitty
Gritty
here
in
a
little
bit,
but
we've
definitely
we're
at
where
a
smaller
team
we
have
myself
included.
We
have
one
two
three
four
four
engine
four
network
engineers
and
then,
as
at
the
first
of
the
year,
networking
in
telecom
joined.
So
we
have
one
telecom
engineer
and
then
the
third
engineer
is
kind
of
gonna
bridge
the
gap.
B
C
A
So
so
what
we'll
just
I'll
just
ask
a
very
broad
question.
First
I
know
we
have
like
a
little
list
and
a
document
I'm
sure
on
the
side
here,
but
for
you
personally
I
mean
there's
a
whole
variety
of
challenges.
So
what
if
you
could
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
kinds
of
challenges
that
you've
run
into
that
I
mean
I?
Think
I
would
love
to
hear
that
sure.
A
B
There's
well
there's
a
few
different
ones,
some
of
them,
some
of
them,
are
straight
technical
and
some
of
them
are
more
of
a
operational
organizational
thing.
The
straight
technical
thing
is
taking
somebody
that
has
no
coding,
no
understanding
of
scripting
whatsoever
and
then
throwing
API
documentation
at
them
and
then
you're
just
supposed
to
figure
this
like
post,
like
all
these
API
interactions,
or
you
start
looking
at
basic
Python
scripts.
There's
there's
a
learning
curve
there.
B
A
granted
Python
makes
it
a
little
bit
easier,
but
there's
a
pretty
steep
learning
curve
there,
especially
when
you
get
into
some
vendors
questionable
documentation,
which
is,
quite
frankly
as
me,
and
the
other
gentlemen
of
Joe
is
written
for
by
developers
for
developers.
So
you
have
this
non
developer.
Guy.
Reading
this
documentation
going
way
how
do
I
like
they
make
some
assumptions
that
you
understand
and
then
they
just
throw
like
a
like
a
curl
statement
at
you
and
be
like
okay
I
got
it
all
right,
so
you're
piecing
it
together.
B
B
I
mean
it
would
almost
be
like
good
example
would
be.
Imagine
imagine
stripping
out
some
of
the
first
chunks
of
the
white
paper
like
a
Cisco
white
paper
that
talks
about
configuring
BGP,
like
with
the
diagram
and
you
just
through
the
code
at
them
and
said
all
right.
You
say
you
can
figure
bgp,
you
know,
and
they
just
gave
you
a
big
long,
snippet
of
the
configuration
so.
B
Yeah,
oh
here
it
is
it's
obvious
yep,
that's
that's
kind
of
how
it
was
in
a
way
with,
especially
it
was
more
more
with
some
with
some
vendors
than
others.
Like
I
said
some
vendors
documentation
was
a
little
bit
better
that
that
we
ran
into
or
that
I
ran
into
I
guess
I
would
say,
but
it
still
is
one
of
those
things
where
they're
making
some
assumptions
that
you
have
a
basic
understanding
of
like
how.
How
are
you
going
to?
How
are
you
going
to
do
this
post?
B
How
are
you
going
to
craft
this
payload
for
your
post
for
the
API
or,
if
you're,
looking
over
certain
string
or
something?
How
are
you
gonna
craft,
that
get
so
that
you
know
what
you're
looking
for
and,
like
I
said
a
lot
of
times
they
just
kind
of
throw
a
curl
statement
at
you
and
then
you're
trying
to
piece
it
back
together.
I
mean
not
to
get
too
far
off
topic,
but
postman
was
extremely
helpful
in
that
and
that
it
kind
of
broke
the
code
out
for
you.
B
C
A
Of
you
who
are
watching
don't
know
what
postman
is,
is
that
you,
you
can
get
it
on
Chrome
there's,
actually
a
couple
different
things
called
postman
that
are
on
Chrome,
but
there's
there's
one
of
them.
That
is
the
actual
postman
and
it's
a
way
for
you
to
acts.
So
when
you
interact
with
the
website
in
your
browser,
it
does
HTTP
posts
and,
and
it
does
ACB
gets
and
when
you
do
those
things
you
get
responses
back
and
those
responses
contain
the
information
for
the
browser
to
render
the
response
in
your
window.
A
Well
with
an
ape
with
with
an
API
that
response
is
frequently
just
some
kind
of
plain
text
like
an
XML
or
JSON
or
yeah
mole
format,
and
with
postman,
you
can
actually
interact
with
an
API
and
view
that
plain
text
in
a
much
more
intuitive
and
easy
way
than
you
can
with
an
actual
browser,
we're
doing
it
from
the
command
line.
Actually,
I
will
say
that
it's
way
better
than
doing
it
from
the
command
line.
A
So
if
you
want
and
often
the
reason
why
he
brought
postman
up
I'm,
not
zooming
that
you,
this
is
the
reason
actually
I'll
leave
it
to
you
to
explain
it
but
I'm.
Assuming
that
the
reason
why
you
you
brought
this
up
is
because
sometimes,
like
you
just
said,
the
documentation
isn't
always
clear
or
it's
not
documented
and
you
can
go
into
postman
and
you
can
send
a
request
and
then
it'll
tell
you
yo.
A
B
So
you
know
how
to
parse
it
out
it
yep
there's
the
two
aspects:
the
biggest
aspects
are
the
feedback
you
get
from
the
API
like
you
mentioned,
and
the
second
part
is
if
there
are
some
extra
attributes
that
you
want
to
send
in
your
command
but
you're
getting
them
crafted
correctly.
So
I
we've
I
for
a
lot
a
lot
of
the
time,
we'll
use
postman
to
help
me
craft,
my
Python
code,
so,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
I
want
it
CLI
format.
A
B
In
correctly,
you
can
with
a
couple
clicks,
you
can
get
the
full
Python
code
right
there,
so
you
can
see
exactly
how
the
request
was
crafted
in
that
code,
and
it
goes
well
beyond
Python
how
many
languages
are
in
there.
There's
ton
of
them
for
whatever
you're
trying
to
write
in
and
it's
just
boom,
there's
the
code
that
it
was
used
right
there.
A
Thank
you
like
you,
cut
paste
in,
and
then
you
tailor
what
what
I
like
about
postman
is
like
I.
Don't
think
people
do
not
understand
how
feature-rich
this
tool
is.
You
can
actually
brick
like
you
can
actually
record
what
you're
doing
and
you
can
set
up
these
sort
of
within
postman.
You
can
set
up
if
you
will
a
script
where
it
authenticates
it
runs
a
command.
A
It
does
like
this
a
whole
sequence
of
steps
that
you
can
preset
so
that
you
can
get
to
a
point
where
that
you
need
to
be
at
in
order
in
order
to
do
what
you
want
to
do.
That's
that's
another
thing
that
that's
what
I
like
about
postman
when
I
was
using
postman
to
do
this,
particularly
with
with
the
Juniper
API,
I'm,
gonna,
say:
I
work
for
juniper
and
I'll
say
right
now
that
junipers
documentation
is
written
by
developers
for
developers
at
least
parts
of
it
are
especially
the
net
confidence.
B
And
then
studying
environmental
variables.
So
if
you
happen
between
the
api's,
you
can
preset
your
your
authentication,
keys
and
whatnot
or,
if
there's
something
specific,
that
API
like
something
that
identifies
you
are
identifies
your
organization
to
it.
You
can
just
pop
between
them
and
set
all
those
variables
right
there,
so
that
when
you're
going
from
API
a
to
API
B,
you
just
get
over
that
environment
and
all
of
your
stuffs
preset.
You
can
just
craft
whatever
you're
trying
to
get,
and
you
don't
have
to
worry
about
all
that
other
stuff,
like
all
your
authenticating.
B
What's
up
yeah
funds
language,
so
there's
that
there's
the
technical
aspect
of
it
for
there
that's
been
one
challenge
and
then,
at
least
for
us
there's
been
this
challenge
of
kind
of
giving
the
organization
on
board.
So
we
have
over
200
in-house
actual
developers
at
our
organization.
That
right
is
that
rate
code
for
our
core
business
function.
So
now
you
have
this
group
of,
like
the
tech
nerds
coming
and
saying:
hey
we're
doing
all
this
scripting
in
this
automation.
Kind
of
doing
this
development
work.
No
we're!
Not
writing
anything
that
anybody's
seen.
B
You
know
we're
not
writing
front
ends
or
anything
like
that.
So
the
organization
was
kind
of
has
been
kind
of
like
waited
like
for
a
little
while
initially
they're
like
wait,
a
second
they
weren't
expecting
I,
don't
know,
I
think
there
were
portions
of
it.
They
weren't
expecting
this
to
come
from
the
tech
area
of
it.
You
know
so
there's
a
little
bit
of
a
and
that
they
got
that
the
organization
seemed
he
could
over
that
quick.
So
that
wasn't
that
big
of
a
hurdle.
But
there
was
a
little
bit
of
a
wait
a
minute.
A
Yeah
yeah
I
can
imagine
so
I
mean
what
are
some
of
the
four,
so
I'm
sure
you've
met
a
lot
of
resistance
in
your
efforts
to
to
make
I'm
saying
this,
because
I've
lived
through
this
multiple
times
right,
there's
always
resistance
from
from
multiple
things:
right,
there's
resistance
from
other
groups
in
your
organization,
the
server
guy
is
the
storage
guys,
the
security
guys,
the
even
management
rain
and
and
then
you
have
your
own
guys
that
often
you
know
resist
right.
They
just
they
just
don't
see
their
job
as
involving
writing
a
Python
script.
A
A
B
A
B
It's
funny
you,
you
brought
up
the
idea
of
you,
know
off
software
engineer
off
and
on
and
whether
or
not
your
team
would
be
on
board
or
members
of
your
team
would
be
on
board
with
with
writing
code.
You
know
we're
network
guys
we're
not
we're
not
coders
the
interesting
thing
that
I
have
found,
at
least
with
the
members
of
my
team
that
are
doing
it
is
especially
for
me
and
and
my
buddy
Chris,
that's
on
the
team.
B
We
actually
found
it's
it's
kind
of
reignited
that
that
kind
of
excitement
and
passion
that
we
had
for
networking
when
we
first
got
into
it
and
we're
to
the
point
now,
whatever
like
I,
said,
we're
not
a
massive
organization
with
this
huge
MPLS
network
or
anything
like
that
right.
But
when
we,
let's
start
looking
at
okay,
we
got
like
we
start.
Looking
at
traditional
networking
like
I
have
to
configure
this
BGP
appearing
or
disappearing
or
whatever
it
may
be.
It's
like
I've
configured
this
VLAN,
okay,
it's
mundane,
but
then
you
start
being
like
wait.
B
A
minute
I
can
do
with
a
Python,
and
the
instantly
became
more
exciting
again
like
that.
It
was
easy
act
opposite
of
not
wanting
to
do
that.
It
was
like.
No
that
that's
awesome.
Let
me
do
that.
It's
making
my
job
I,
don't
say
exciting
again,
because
it's
not
it's
not
a
boring
job
by
any
stretch,
but
it
definitely
adds
some
some
fun
to
it.
Yeah.
A
A
A
You
know
when
he
first
started
out
like
every
engine
had
to
be
pulled
out
and
taken
apart
and
the
parts
oiled
and
cleaned
and
organized,
and
now
you
can
put
a
computer
in
and
there's
a
bunch
of
problems
that
you
can
fix
just
by
attaching
a
computer
and
not
turning
a
single
bolt
yeah,
you
know,
and
that-
and
he
gets
totally
nerded
out
by
that
so
new
ways
of
interacting
with
the
systems
that
you
love
is
always
gonna
light
a
fire
right
and
yeah.
So,
if
you're
watching
this,
this
is
this
is
a
key.
A
Take
a
boutique:
this
is
the
first
key
takeaway
from
this
conversation.
Is
you
know
the
thing
that
especially
network
engineers?
The
thing
that
you
love
about
being
a
network
engineer
is
the
uncertainty
and
the
complexity
and
learning
new
stuff.
All
the
time
when
it
comes
to
automation,
you
don't
have
to
be
a
full-on
software
engineer.
A
This
is
just
another
thing
that
you
can
pull
in
and
make
it
part
of
your
skill
center
and
it's
a
new
kind
of
thing
that
can
that
can
keep
that
fire
going
for
what
you
do
so
getting
getting
back
on
topic
dough.
So
the
challenge
is
right,
the
the
other,
the
other
silos,
your
own
team
management,
like
this.
This
talk
more
about
that,
because,
when
we
kicked
before
we
started
recording
you
had
some
good
stories.
Yeah.
B
We
legitimately
maybe
want
to
sprint
in
some
ways
from
their
purview
before
we
can
walk
right.
So
what
are
some
things
that
are
are
good
security?
What
are
some
things
that
security
would
be
worried
about
when
it
comes
to
what
your
script
you
know
when
it
comes
to
what
you're
doing
right
some
of
the
seminal
things
are
simple
like?
Are
you
passing
passwords
in
your
script
like?
How
are
you?
How
are
you
writing
this
code?
You
know.
B
B
So
there's
that
and
if
it
went
you
know
if
you
have,
if
you
have
a
group
of,
if
you
have
this
all
the
sudden
is
insurgents
of
tech
folk
who,
let's
look
let's
just
let's
call
a
spade
a
spade
legitimately
aren't
developers,
so
they
may
not
know.
We
may
not
know
we
don't
know
as
non
developers
right
now,
maybe
pythons
a
little
bit
safer,
but
at
the
end
of
the
date
also
depends
on
the
gear
you're
touching
right.
You
could
you
could
theoretically
new
some
equipment
and
you
could
take
things
down
and
break
things.
A
B
But
you,
but
so
there's
that
aspect
of
it
and
the
challenge
is,
is
how
do
you?
How
do
you
foster
that?
How
do
you
acknowledge
and
foster
that
ability
and
to
do
these
things
with
these
talented
engineers?
You
have
that
to
do
this
well
still,
making
sure
that
you're,
covering
your
bases
from
what
you're
responsible
for
from
this
from
a
security
perspective.
B
So
there's
there's
some
fair
challenges
that
I
think
probably
a
lot
of
organizations,
or
at
least
any
organization
that
would
take
security
seriously
would
have
to
face,
and
they
have
to
have
to
determine
how
they're
going
to
do
that.
We're
going
through
some
of
that
right
now.
How
do
we
do
this
so
so.
A
A
Like
it's,
it's
sort
of
you
can't
separate
these
two
things.
Is
that
there's,
like
a
devil,
the
devil?
You
know
sort
of
situation
here
where
the
old
way
they
know
right
they
because
they
know
it
so
well
when,
when
unexpected
things
happen,
they
know
how
to
circle
around
it,
but
here
you're
doing
something
new
and
and
now
they
don't
know
how
to
circle
around
it.
So
do
you
I
mean:
do
you
think,
there's
a
little
bit
of
that
going
on
so.
B
Two
parts
to
that
answer,
I
think
in
my
previous
job
there
would
have
been
more
of
that
being
a
true
unknown,
like
literally,
they
don't
understand
what
they
they
would.
They
wouldn't
have
any
understanding,
even
if
we
were
doing
the
levels
of
coding
that
we're
doing
right
now,
they
wouldn't
have
had
an
understanding
of
what
you're
doing
what
at
least
that
was
my
that's.
B
How
I
would
have
taken
it
right,
we're
lucky
where
I'm
at
right
now,
in
that
we
have
members
of
the
security
team
or
who
have
transitioned
from
developer
roles
to
the
security
roles,
so
you
have
actual
developers
that
are
on
your
security
team
on
this
kind
of
awesome,
which
is
really
cool
from
this
from
from
the
paradigm
of
automation,
right,
it's
really
cool
from
from
when
looking
at
it
from
there
right
so
I
think
the
challenge
now,
isn't
they
wouldn't
understand
what
they're
doing
it
understand?
What
we're
doing?
B
It's
making
sure
the
guardrails
are
in
place
so
that
they
know
what
we're
doing
and
if
we
kick
something
off
they
can
see.
Oh,
this
thing
kicked
this
off
and
touched
these
pieces
of
equipment
because
there's
the
compliance
aspect
of
all
this,
like
it's,
not
it's
not
kid
ourselves,
there's
that
we
we
have
to
maintain
compliance.
They
have
responsibilities,
especially
like
with
PCI,
and
what
not
to
maintain
certain
things
and
keep
certain
logs
and
be
able
to
track
certain
things.
So
they
can't
just
pull
the
pull
the
reins
that
pull
the
rail.
B
A
Oh,
for
sure,
I
mean
I,
don't
think
people
understand,
so
this
is
I
think
this
I
relate
to
this
very
strongly,
because
before
I
went
to
the
vendor
side,
the
last
company
I
worked
at
was
a
financial
company
and
people.
Unless
you've
worked
in
a
fine,
especially
a
financial
company
that
crosses
state
lines.
A
A
We
had
no
incidents
like
I
need
it
well,
we
I
mean
we
had
an
incident
sometimes,
but
even
when
things
were
calm
and
there
was
nothing
bad
happening,
we
were
being
audited
half
of
the
year
every
year
from
organizations
you
never
heard
of
like
what
is
this
like
the
5-letter
agency,
I've,
never
heard
of,
and
they
come
in
and
they're
like.
Are
you
doing
all
these
things
and
can
we,
you
know,
run
scans
on
your
network
internally?
It
was,
it
was
crazy,
so
that's
I
mean
I.
A
B
And
the
regulations
are
constantly
shifting
and,
as
as
you
probably
know,
security
regulations
aren't
always
if
I
might
be,
putting
that
mildly,
aren't
necessarily
written
black
and
white.
There's
a
gray
area
that
you
could
think
you're
compliant
and
that
if
the
auditor
comes
in
and
that
day
decides
to
think
you're
reads
it
a
different
way,
while
all
of
a
sudden
now
you're
not
compliant,
and
so
it's
it's
a
nightmare.
So.
A
A
Do
it
this
way,
but
they
do
in
a
very
broad
way.
How
do
you
turn
management
round
from
from
being
like
a
a
yay,
nay
yay
or
nay
gatekeeper,
sort
of
position
to
being?
Well?
Let's
that's:
let's
make
this
happen
and
solve
the
problems
we
need
to
solve
to
make
it
happen
along
the
way
like
how
do
you
get
management
engaged
and
I?
Don't
know
if
you've,
if
you,
if
you've
solved
that
problem
but
I
imagine
you
must
be
going
through
that.
B
Yeah
we
are
going
through
it
and
there's
probably
two
two
primary
I
guess
avenues
that
that
facilitate
that
number
one
is
even
management
when
they,
at
whatever
level,
see
whatever
level
anytime.
They
are
listening
to
any
technical
presentation
by
anybody
or
any
sort
of
technical
talk.
Automation,
orchestration
are
coming
up
constantly
I
mean,
along
with
other
terms
like
cloud
multi-cloud,
all
that
kind
of
stuff
right.
That's
the
end,
yeah
yep,
another
good
one,
so
they're
constantly
hearing
this
and
they're
constantly.
B
So
this
isn't
something
that's
that's
just
being
brought
up
and
then
you
can
sweep
it
away
every
organ.
Every
vendor
you
bring
in
right
now,
even
if
it's
a
new
vendor
for
a
sales
pitch
or
whatnot
automation,
orchestration
API
is
that
whole
idea
that
whole
concept
is
part
of
every
presentation.
So
this
is
something
that's
always
there
right.
So
there's
that
that
makes
that
makes
it
bringing
the
conversation
up
easy
because
the
conversations
constantly
be
brought
up
yeah.
B
The
second
part
that
I've
noticed
that
that
kind
of
has
helped
the
ton
is
showing
like
giving
examples
of
where
automation,
even
if
it's
not
like
I,
think
there's
that
what
is
it
that
five
step,
that
I
think
and
even
you
remember-
is
an
energy
thing
or
whatnot.
The
five
steps
of
automation,
like
you're,
doing
everything
manually
and
it's
fully
autonomous
right
yeah,
where.
B
Now
it
takes
us
10
minutes,
oh,
and
by
the
way
it's
completely
repeatable.
We
don't
have
the
same
problems.
Where
hope
you
forgot
to
apply
that
to
this
router
hope
you
didn't
put
that
that
VLAN
and
this
switch
is
gone
like
it's
one
thing
when
you're,
when
you're
touching
three
devices,
three
devices
when
you're
making
these
configuration
changes
on
three
devices
when
you're,
adding
this
and
you're
touching
sixty
devices
plus
like
I,
said
we're
not
that
big.
So
there's
it
grows
well
beyond
that.
B
But
when
you're
touching
sixty
devices
to
make
this
thing
happen
and
more
often
than
not,
it's
not
I
need
one
new
network.
It's
I
need
these
four
new
networks.
Well,
okay,
talk
I'll!
Let
you
know
in
three
days
when
this
is
done.
You
know,
because
I
have
to
log
into
all
these
pieces
of
equipment.
Even
if
you
pre
pre
staged
the
cut
code,
you
still
there's
ways
around
it,
but
it's
still
it's
not
a
good
process.
B
So
when
you
can
start
taking
these
things
like
that,
and
even
if
they
don't
care
I
want
to
say
they
don't
care
but
sitting
them
down
in
front
of
this
and
being
they're
gonna
trip,
this
cool
thing
out.
You
know
it's
okay,
I
rely
on
this
is
time
like
this
is
this
time
is
a
precious
commodity?
How
quickly
can
you
turn
this
round?
Well,
you
know
what
we're
no
longer
bottlenecking,
this
fifteen
minutes
in
our
stuff
is
done.
Okay
on
to
the
next
thing,
so
I
think
that
is
going
a
long
way
in
it'd.
B
Be
one
thing
if
we
weren't
doing
anything
internally
with
this.
So
even
if
this
automation
thing
was
coming
up
and
they're
like
oh
yeah,
okay,
that's
cool,
but
when
you
have
multiple
groups
that
are
showing
what
they've
done
with
automation
within
the
confines
of
their
own
equipment
in
their
own,
like
their
own
silo,
and
now
you
start
having
them
saying
well,
I
want
to
talk
to
this
silo
and
I
want
to
talk
to
this
silo
and
they're
gonna
talk
to
this
one
and
everything
starts
kind
of
intertwining.
B
That's
where
you
start
seeing
them
going:
oh,
okay,
and
even
if
you
don't
have,
even
if,
even
if
you
can't
walk
into
management
and
say
hey,
if
you
give
us
the
okay,
we
have
this
done
tomorrow
right,
even
if
there
is
some
luck,
we're
gonna
ting
bumps
in
the
road
to
get
this,
but
this
is
what
our
goal
is,
and
this
is
what
an
achievable
goal
is,
and
there
go
wait,
a
minute
that
makes
total
sense.
Why
wouldn't
we
do
that?
B
You
know
it
makes
the
conversation
a
little
bit
easier,
the
security
concerns
and
other
all
the
other
concerns
of
the
how
and
the
standards
and
all
that
those
are
those
those
are
constant.
Those
are
always
good
going
to
exist,
but
if
you
can,
if
you
show
value
to
these
other
things,
working
on
those
becomes
easy.
Well
that
becomes
easy,
but
it
becomes
doable.
It
becomes
a
thing
that
is,
that
warrants
value,
I
guess,
as.
A
A
manager
for
people
on
your
own
team
is
this
something
where
you
tell
them.
You
know
you're,
either
on
the
bus
or
you're
in
front
of
it
or
as
or
is
this
something
where
you
want
to
foster
a
sense
of
will
say
you
know,
participation
and
belonging
like
they
like
they're
part
of
the
process,
you
know
they're,
how
do
you,
how
do
you
or
is
it
a
mix,
know
depending
on
personally
okay?
How
do
you,
what
are
the
challenges
with
your
own
team,
and
how
do
you
I
know
what
this
sounded
terrible,
like
you
know?
A
B
Part
of
that
comes
back
to
basics,
of
who
do
you
have
on
your
staff
right
it?
That
conversation
is
the
same
conversation.
You
have
with
stages
of
engineers.
You
would
have
whether,
whatever
the
level
is
right,
if
you
have
an
entry
level
engineer,
you're
not
going
to
give
them
the
you
know
you're
the
reworking
of
your
BGP
edge.
It's
just
it's
not
there
right
there
they're,
not
there.
B
Maybe
you
have
them
shadow
well,
this
comes
with
the
same
thing:
I'm
not
going
to
actively
for
I'm
not
going
to
really
actively
force
any
member
of
my
team
to
do
automation.
I
would
hope
that
they
would
see
the
benefits
in
the
things
that
we
automate
and
I
know
they
can
use
those
tools
and
benefit
from
them.
So
there's
you
you
kind
of
want
them.
B
You
know,
so
we
have
the
entire
gamut
of
of
those
people,
so
it
that
I'm
fortunate,
that's
the
easy
part,
and
then,
when
you
do
have
somebody
that
wants
to
like
a
more
entry
level,
you
just
encourage
it.
Like,
oh,
hey,
I
was
messing
around
a
little
bit.
I
wrote
this
script.
To
get
this
information
from
the
switch
awesome.
Can
you
now
take
that
information
and
also
see
if
you
can
pull
this
and
pair
the
two
right?
So
you
do
things
that
differ.
B
A
functional
is
like
you're,
not
asking
them
to
do
something,
that's
going
to
functionally
change,
how
you're
doing
something
at
work,
but
it's
gonna.
It's
going
to
get
them
along
the
path
and
get
them
excited
about
it,
which
is
only
gonna
help
down
the
road
when
they
actually,
when
you
actually
do
hand
him
a
project
you're,
like
hey
man,
there's
no
reason
we
should
be
doing
this
by
hand
figure
out
a
way
to
how
can
we
automate
this.