►
Description
Broadcasted live on Twitch -- Watch live at https://www.twitch.tv/nrelabs
A
B
A
A
This
is
our
twenty-some,
I
don't
know
which
one
22nd
23rd
community
livestream
for
the
energy
labs
project
in
community
and
today
we're
actually
going
to
be
talking
about
some
of
the
network.
Automation,
certifications
are
that
are
already
out
there
by
network
vendors
and
also
certifications
from
for
networking
from
cloud
vendors.
A
We've
made
a
little
outline
of
some
of
the
features
of
these
certifications
and
we'll
go
over
them
and
we'll,
hopefully,
we'll
have
a
pretty
interesting
discussion
around
them
before
we
get
started,
though
I
just
want
to
say
for
quite
some
time
we've
a
number
of
us
have
been
predicting
that
these
certifications
would
would
be
surfacing
and-
and
you
know,
the
fact
that
they
exist
now
I
think
reflects
I
mean
if
vendors
are
doing
in
cloud
providers
are
doing
it
it.
The
these
certifications,
reflect
of
like
a
skill
set,
that's
valued
in
the
marketplace.
A
So
you
know,
that's
not
really
surprising
if
you've
been
in
network
automation
for
a
little
while
and
it's
great
if
this
now
it's
easier
than
ever,
to
jump
in
and
get
your
feet
wet
and
start
and
start
following
some
of
these
learning
tracks
and
get
these
certifications
right
to
to
get
get
some
kind
of
I
guess
piece
of
paper,
your
belt
or
whatever
so
Matt.
Any
any
thoughts
on
that
yeah.
B
I
mean
this
is
funny
like
for
me
personally
when
I,
when
I
made
delete
from
network
engineer
to
well
I,
guess
back
to
software
developer,
because
I
kind
of
did
that
really
early
on
in
my
career,
I
I
I
stopped
taking
certifications
and
it
was
easy
to
get
wrapped
up,
because
this
was
all
during
the
SDN
hype
and
as
you
and
I
have
talked
at
at
nauseam.
Really,
there
were
a
lot
of
people
that
were
like.
B
Network
network
engineers
are
gonna,
be
out
of
a
job,
and
so
there's
no
point
yeah.
You
know
what
my
reason
actually
wasn't
anything
like
that.
It
was
just
because
I
just
lost
kind
of
lost
interest
in
the
you
know,
sort
of
the
cycle
of
constantly
taking
certifications,
I
felt
like
there
was
so
much
there
was
so
much
out
there
that
just
didn't
have
a
certification
that
I
just
wanted
to
focus
on.
Instead,
even
was
the
networking.
This
is
true.
I
think
there
was
there's
a
lot
of
there's
a
lot
within
networking.
B
If
you're,
if
you're
talking
to
somebody,
that's
just
setting
out
to
learn
to
learn,
programming
or
learn
automation
in
some
way.
What
how
would
you
level
set?
How
would
you
level
set
them
as
they
as
they
look
through
the
ecosystem
of
certifications?
Here,
cuz
there's
trade-offs
to
these
certs
right.
Like
you
know,
five
years
ago,
we
didn't
even
think
about
having
a
search
for
programming,
because
it
was
the
separate
thing
now
we
have
search
from
everybody
about
it.
B
A
Well,
looking
at
the
content,
they
cover
a
lot
of
topics.
I
mean
I.
Have
some
of
these
topics?
I
mean
I,
have
multiple
books
about
just
single
topics
that
are
they're
addressed
in
these,
like
especially
data
representation,
things
like
XML
from
Yambol
and
JSON
there's,
you
know,
there's
entire
books
written
about
each
of
those
individually
and
I
believe.
Certainly
XML
I
have
probably
six
different
books
about
XML
on
my
bookshelf
right
behind
us
and
those
are
only
and
those
are
covered.
You
know
in
amongst
we're
talking
about
one
week.
A
One
week's
worth
of
training
here
those
are
covered
along
with
probably
a
dozen
other.
Very
large
topics
like
just
looking
at
the
list
of
some
of
these
things.
Things
like
get
how
to
build
a
C
ICD
pipeline
test-driven
development,
IC
python
is
covered
in
at
least
two
of
these
certifications.
That's.
B
A
That
we've
mowed
down
an
entire
forest
with
the
trees
to
print
those
books,
I'm
Python
I'm
seriously.
There's
a
ton
of
that
rain.
There's
a
one
of
the
surfs
covers
XPath,
there's
multiple
books
on
XPath,
mount
universe,
DevOps
principles,
practices
and
tools,
I
mean
how
many
books
I
mean
how
many
there's
training
just
on
those
things,
and
all
of
these
are
topics
mixed,
like
you
said,
with
a
dozen
other
topics
with
just
within
a
week's
time
scale.
A
The
other
thing
is,
you
know,
I'm
looking
at
these
certs
and
I
see
that
there's
not
a
lot
of
stuff
in
here
about
networking
in
these
certifications
or
there's
very
little
like
a
day
like
an
overview
of
networking.
A
You
know
we've
been
saying
Matt
and
I've
been
saying,
for
these
are
watching
for
quite
some
time
that
you
know
dirt,
like
automation,
is
something
that
it
can
where
you
have
to
know
something
about
the
domain
that
you're
that
you're
automating
in
right
and
if
you're
a
network
engineer
you
know
like
Matt
just
said,
we've
been
told
for
since
probably
eight
years
now
then
network
engineers
are
the
mainframe
programmers.
A
You
know
of
the
day
and
I
think
this
has
changed
a
lot
in
the
last
18
months,
but
for
a
very
long
time,
six,
seven
or
eight
years
we
were
told
you
know
you're
obsolete.
You
learn
to
code.
You
know
that
kind
of
stuff
and
and
what
I
would
say
looking
at
looking
at
the
topics
that
are
covered
in
these
certs
is.
A
You
know
they
have
to
gather
information
and
build
models,
whether
you're,
troubleshooting
or
doing
that
you
know
changes
to
the
network
and
if
you,
you
should
be
familiar
with
that
stuff,
because
that's
where,
when
you,
when
you
have
knowledge
of
those
things
and
that's
where
these
skills
really
come
in
and
provide
value
and
they
make
you
valuable,
you
are
not
obsolete.
You
are
not
the
mainframe
programmer
of
the
day.
B
Two
things
stick
out
of
me:
I
think,
there's
probably
there's
like
the
sort
of
traditional
networking
vendor
automation,
certifications
and
then
there's
the
cloud
Network
vendor
certifications.
There
are
trade
offs,
I
think
with
there
there's
there's
a
theme
that
I
observe
across
the
board-
and
this
is
true.
Basically
any
certification
in
IT
is
that
they
they're
their
primary
focus
is
to
show
you
how
to
use
their
stuff
like
that
is.
B
That
is
like
by
far
the
biggest
objective
for
any
of
this
stuff,
whether
it's
the
GCP
networking
certifications,
any
of
us
I
mean
the
whole
point
is
to
show
you
how
they
do
the
subject
at
hand
which
is
status
quo.
So
that's
not
news
to
10,
that's
not
new
to
anybody!
Anybody,
that's
taken
the
you
know
gone
down
the
CCIE
path
or
the
JNA
CIA
path,
it's
the
same
boat,
there's
all
there's
always
fundamental
sprinkled
in,
but
it's
all
it's
all
presented
in
that
sort
of
very
in
that
very
implementation
specific
way.
B
The
other
thing
is
with
with
respect
to
these
automation,
certifications.
You
know.
Normally
the
argument
for
certifications
is,
you
know.
Well,
there's
there's
perceived
value
whether
that
perception
is
like
valid
or
not
kind
of
doesn't
matter,
there's
perceived
value
in
these
certifications
at
the
employer
level,
and
so,
if
I
get
this
cert
I
can
attach
a
monetary
value
to
that,
I
can
say:
I
spend
this
amount
of
time.
Taking
the
you
know,
the
the
courses
and
the
cran
boot
camps
and
so
I
get
a
cert
after
that,
and
then
I
get
an
ROI
of
X.
B
That's
fine
I
we're
not
gonna.
Go
down
that
path
in
this
conversation.
Do
what
you
need
to
do
for
me,
though,
like
for
these
automation,
certifications,
they're,
nascent
they're
very,
very
newly
established
they.
Nobody
really
knows
about
them.
So
there's
that
argument
is
quite
there
and
on
top
of
the
fact,
what
we
just
discussed,
which
is
that
they
they
cover
like
freaking
everything
and
there's
no
way
that
they
can
be
covered
in
any
any
sort
of
you
know
proper
depth.
A
B
Point
is,
my
point
is
like
don't
think
of
them
as
like
the
end-all
be-all,
like
I'm
gonna.
Take
this
cert
and
I'm
gonna
be
an
expert
at
cloud
networking
or
automation,
and
network
automation,
like
it's
just
impossible
to
do
that,
like
the
the
biggest
teacher
for
these
subjects
is
real
life
production
operations.
B
Experience
like
that
is
by
far
the
biggest
the
biggest
teacher,
so
do
not
stop
at
any
one
of
these
certifications
and
be
like
I'm,
an
expert,
because
it's
just
there's
literally
there's
a
there's,
a
physics
limitation
here,
it's
impossible
to
pack
enough
information
and
any
one
of
these
certs
to
make
you,
like
you
know
a
master
like
it's
just
impossible.
So
start
use
this
as
like
a
framework
for
like
figuring
out.
B
What's
out
there,
cuz
they're
gonna
throw
a
bunch
of
crap
at
you,
probably
stuff
that
you
may
never
never
have
heard
before,
use
that
as
a
as
a
as
a
guide
for
all
of
the
different
things
you
didn't
know
about,
and
then
once
you
got,
the
cert
go
back
and
say:
alright.
I
want
to
focus
on
this
one
area
for
like
a
long
time
and
really
really
get
good
at
it.
I
think
that's
like
the
best
way
to
structure
a
lot
of
these
yeah.
A
I
agree,
you
know
it's
so
I
mean
I
I've
been
a
software
engineer
on
and
off
throughout
my
career
I
know
you
have
as
well
and
one
thing
that's
sort
of
I.
Well,
it's
actually
true
about
network
engineers
and
software
engineers.
In
my
opinion,
there's
a
there's
a
word
out.
There
called
autodidactic
and
it
means
that
you're
able
to
teach
yourself
things
right
and
because
and
the
thing
is
you
have
to
do
that
attack
whether
you're
a
developer
or
you're
a
network
engineer.
A
If
you
have
to
be
spoon-fed
every
piece
of
knowledge,
then
you're
just
you're
not
going
to
make
it
there's,
no
there's
a
reason
why
you
know
books
are
precious
to
us
right
and
and
good
online
blogs
and
tutorials
are
like
gold,
because
you
know
they
can
distill.
You
know
very
complicated
topics
into
something
consumable
and
what's
happening
there.
A
Is
that
your
their
seating,
like
just
enough
I,
guess
foundation
in
your
mind,
to
make
to
just
enough
clarity
for
you
to
go
and
expand
on
that
topic
without
getting
you
know
without
feeling
like
you're
lost
right
or
me,
or
wondering,
if
you're,
even
looking
at
the
right
thing,
when
you're
learning
about
it
and
that's
how
you
should
look
at
all
of
this
training.
I
would
say
sure
all
of
this
is
about
just
putting
just
enough
foundation
in
your
mind,
for
you
to
go
and
teach
yourself
subsequently
now
there
are.
A
There's,
there's
a
and
we'll
DevOps,
and
actually
quite
a
few
of
these
topics
you
can
go
and
you
can
take
even
more
advanced
training,
but
I
would
argue
that
at
some
points
you
know
the
payoff
for
more
training
becomes
less
and
less
and
and
you
and
you
should
definitely,
you
know,
put
the
put
the
energy
if
you're
gonna
take
these
courses
into
exploring
these
topics
yourself
lab
them.
Just
like
you
would
you
know,
network
scenarios
and
you
know
and
go
and
just
look
at
them
like,
like
matt,
said
their
starting
point.
Yeah.
B
A
Put
on
there,
but
we
can
talk
about
that
too.
Actually,
we'll
start
Cisco
just
announced
some
definite
certifications
up
through
the
pea
level,
so
they
have
a
CCNA
specialist
and
ccmp
level
certs
now
for
for
dev
net
the
covers
you
know
X,
you
know
it
covers
all
these
topics
in
increasing
detail
right
as
as
you
go
through
these
certifications,
XML
JSON
and
yam
array,
data
representation,
serialization,
test-driven
development
version
control
in
like
in
general,
and
then
it
covers
get
more
specifically
rest
interfaces
and
api's
just
in
general.
That's
a
huge
topic.
A
All
that
is
CCNA,
and
a
lot
of
that
is
repeated
in
in
the
in
the
next
two
levels
right,
but
the
next
two
levels
are
interesting
because
they
actually
fan
out:
there's
not
just
one
specialist
level,
certification
or
one
professional
level
certification.
What
they
decided
to
do
was
to
actually
create.
It
looks
like
one
two,
three,
four,
five,
six,
seven,
eight
nine
different
or
eight
different
specializations.
So
you
have
to
take
some
core
related
topics
for
for
each
of
those
certs,
and
that
covers
a
lot
of
stuff.
A
A
That's
WebEx
and
and
call
manager
I,
don't
know
if
they
still
call
a
call
manager,
there
I'm
sure,
there's
tons
of
stuff
there.
Instead
that
under
under
the
collaboration
envelope
there
video
conferencing,
stuff
security
and
SP,
and
then
they
have
a
DevOps
specialization,
which
is
pretty
interesting
and
then
you're.
Looking
at
that.
B
Right
now,
some
of
this
stuff
kind
of
surprised
me
I,
mean
it.
Cisco
has
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
like
what
they,
basically
what
they'll
do
is
they'll.
Take
existing
open
source
project
like
kubernetes,
is
an
example
and
they
have
their
own
Cystic,
all
like
cisco
container
platform.
So
I'm
sure
this
is
this
is
aimed
at
that,
but
they
they
talk
about.
I
mean
this.
This
particular
exam
topic
is
describe
the
concepts
and
objects
of
kubernetes
to
deploy
applications
to
kubernetes
cluster.
You
know
utilize
kubernetes
objects
to
build
a
deployment
to
meet
requirements.
B
I
mean
this
is
this
is
the
kind
of
thing
like
you
know.
We
we
still
I
think
in
this
in
this
industry,
we're
still
wrapped
around
the
axle
of
like
learning,
how
to
do
config
management
there's
so
so
so
much
out
out
there
that
you
can
learn,
even
if
you
don't
think
you're
gonna
do
it
is
your
day
job
like
anybody.
Any
network
engineer
could
make
the
argument
that
they're
never
going
to
interact
directly
with
kubernetes
for
their
day
job.
You
know,
that's,
that's,
probably
a
realist,
at
least
from
a
deployment
perspective.
B
That's
probably
a
realistic
scenario,
but
that
doesn't
mean
you
shouldn't
go
through
the
process
yourself,
so
that
you
can
understand
how
applications
are
deployed
to
kubernetes
or
what
even
that
is
I.
Think
we
we
look
at.
We
look
at
concepts
that
we
don't
know
and
just
sort
of
treat
it
as
this
ethereal
thing
when
in
reality
you
know,
maybe
after
a
day
or
two
of
laughing,
it
would
become
way
more
tangible
to
us
and
I.
Just
I
was
kind
of
surprised
and
impressed
that
they
have
that
in
there
yeah.
A
And
I
think
some
of
that
ties
back
to
their
CI
CD
stuff
when
I
was
looking,
I
got
the
impression,
looking
at
the
description
that
they
were
actually
talking
about
the
scripts
and
the
sort
of
mini
apps,
that
people
write
to
automate
things
and
how
to
create
a
CI
CD
pipeline
for
those
and
how
to
deploy
those,
not
just
you
know,
a
higher
level
sort
of
end
user
facing
apps
right.
So
if
you
know
that
I
do
like
that,
they
cover
those
topics.
B
How
to
just
get
into
just
how
to
get
insight
into
what
the
what
the
apps
folks
are
doing?
You
know,
like
I,
actually
presented
on
this.
Like
my
first
week
at
Juniper,
I
gave
up,
I
gave
a
talk
at
network
field
day
and
like
there
there's
there's,
there's
so
much
value
in
being
able
to
just
write,
simple
screen.
You
know
the
scripts
that
we
tell
network
engineers
to
write.
You
don't
have
to
just
write
them
against
network
devices
like
you
can
write,
Python
scripts
to
access
anything.
B
That's
a
value
and
the
kubernetes
api
is
out
there
and
it
contains
a
ton
of
useful
information
about
what
your
developers
and
applications
folks
have
deployed.
If
you
just,
if
you
could
only
speak
the
small
amount
of
coop
speak,
you
know
to
understand
what
what's
there
it
takes
maybe
a
day
or
two
of
understanding
and
then
you're.
Then
your
good
tie
into
that
API
and
now
you
know
what
your
developers
are
doing
and
you
could
help
serve
them
a
little
better
yeah
for
sure
yeah.
A
So
Cisco
goes
up
like
I
said
they
go
up
to
the
P
level,
so
you
know
and
again
it's
specialized
up
to
the
P
level,
so
you're
choosing
that,
oh
by
the
way
we
didn't
mention,
there's
IOT
in
WebEx
specializations
as
well
at
those
levels.
So
it
is
eight
specializations
that
they
have
for
automation,
which
seems
like
a
lot
to
me.
It
seems
like
it
seems
like
a
lot
but
I.
B
A
Is
a
CCIE
level
certification
coming
out
for
dev
net,
but
it's
there's
no
details
available
to,
but
that's
that's
right
on
their
website,
so
we
have.
We
have
that
to
look
forward
to
I
suppose
I
might
get
a
CCI
again
if
that
happens,
but
I
do
work
at
juniper
and
I
will
be
getting
these
following
certs
actually
for
certain.
So
juniper
has
what
they
call
the
Juno.
By
the
way
those
were
called
the
Cisco
dev
net
certifications,
juniper
calls
there's
the
Juniper
platform,
automation
and
DevOps
certification.
A
They
also
have
a
cloud
certification
path
which
will
which
will
cover
momentarily,
but
will
let's
do
this
platform,
automation
and
DevOps
thing
first,
so
so
similar
to
Cisco.
They
cover
like
a
base
set
of
topics
like
twice-over.
There's
two
different
level
certs
available
at
this
time.
Associate
and
specialist
I
know
that
there
is
a
professional
level
cert
that
is
I,
think
imminent
and
it's
release
and
it
covers
again.
It
just
expands
a
lot
on
these
topics.
A
Again,
you
know
we're
talking
about
XML,
JSON,
yeah,
Mille,
net
conf
and
rest
Python,
PI
Z,
which
is
a
great
tool
by
the
way.
It's
it's
a.
It's
a
library
that
allows
you
to
do
easily
make
Netcom
calls
I'm
using
Python
syntax,
so
you
don't
have
to
actually
structure
your
own
XML,
Docs
or
XML.
You
know,
requests
and
and
then
have
to
parse
XML
responses.
It
comes
back
and
is
translated
one
way
or
the
other
to
like
a
dictionary
or
some
nested
data
structure.
A
Then
we
have
on
box
and
off
box
scripting
so
and
I'm
sure
that
that's
covered
actually
I
didn't
see
that
covered
in
on
in
the
sadness'
certifications,
but
I
know
they
have
Python
and
tickle
ants
in
iOS
I'm,
not
sure.
If
those
I
didn't
see
those
covered,
though,
and
yeah
I,
don't
think
they
they
didn't.
A
Yes,
so
we
we
do
dive
into
that.
Specifically,
some
of
you
know
juniper
has
on
box
a
number
of
on
box
api's
that
allow
you
to
write.
If
you
want
straight-up
see
applications
that
leverage
you
know
different
like
internal
libraries,
you
could
ratio
and
routing
protocol.
You
can
write
your
own
there's
a
language
out.
There
called
p4.
A
If,
as
a
network
engineer,
you
should
at
least
go
and
read
like
some
introductory
white
paper
on
it,
it's
really
interesting
because
it
is
for
networking,
it
is
literally
a
programming
language
meant
for
networking,
and
you
can
specify
networks
and
network
behavior
encode
using
the
p4
language.
Well,
you
could
write
your
own
p4
interpreter
using
some
of
these
api's
that
are
on
box,
but
we
have
those
are
sort
of
different
than
what
we
will
call
em
GD
based
automation,
which
is
things
like
you
know,
event
scripts.
A
These
are
triggered
by
events
on
the
box.
Then
you
have
manually
triggered
scripts
like
that.
Are
that
can
be
run
in
ops
mode
like
they
can
modify
the
output
of,
show,
commands
or
or
take
many
show
commands,
and
then
you
know
piece
together
output
that
sort
of
you
know
whatever
analyzes
all
that
and
make
some
kind
of
information
so
that
you
don't
have
to
do
that
analysis
yourself
at
the
command
line.
A
There's
file,
copies,
there's
other
things
you
can
do
from
there
from
the
ops
mode.
Then
there's
commit
mode
scripting
right,
and
this
is
when
you're
in
commit
mode
in
different
sorts
of
you
know
scripts.
You
can
write
that
and
that
can-
and
these
can
be
written
in
Python,
X,
alt
and
slacks
and
those
are
covered
in
this
training.
A
B
A
B
A
Ansible
tower
and
then
there's
and
then
there's
a
stack
sperm
all
are
all
they
all
are
they
have
well,
a
big
chunk
of
their
primary
value
is
overlapping.
There
they're
event-driven
frameworks
the
adventure
of
an
automation,
frameworks
that
you
can.
You
know,
trigger
workflows
based
on
events
and
then
those
workflows
and
go
and
do
things
in
the
environment
and
send
notifications
or
they
collect
information
or
whatever.
It
is,
that's
that's
what
they
or
anything
ray.
We
have
stack
storm
scripts
and
the
interval
apps
prod
tweet
things,
so
it's
kind
of
cool.
A
So
you
know
that
anyways,
it's
a
lot
of
the
same
topics.
We
cover
slot
open,
config
and
Yang,
and
we
cover
some
of
those
on
box
api's
that
we
were
talking
about
earlier,
like
chat,
so
these
this
goes
to
the
a
and
s
level
the
the
juniper
stuff
does.
A
lot
of
that
is
actually
a
lot
of
this
training
shockingly,
because
Matt
and
I
actually
have
read
the
training
guides
and
provided
feedback,
so
the
people
developing
them
and
a
lot
of
it
is
actually
vendor-neutral
the
training.
B
B
You
know
anytime,
you
anytime,
you're,
dealing
with
you
know
specifics
like
SDKs,
on
top
of
who
knows
yeah,
that's
gonna
be
specific,
but
like
to
your
point
like
net
comp
yang,
those
are
all
ITF
standards
that
are
implemented
on
more
than
just
you
know
same
thing
with
any
anytime
you're
dealing
with
like
basic
data.
Serialization
yeah
Juno's
doesn't
have
its
own
data,
serialization
format
yeah.
So
a
lot
of
this
stuff
is
absolutely
transferable.
Yeah.
Yeah!
Absolutely.
A
B
A
Think
that's
interesting.
What
well
juniper
certainly
does
also
offer
cloud-based
training
and
they
cover
things
like,
of
course,
contrail
enterprise.
It's
their
flagship
cloud
product.
They
which
you
know
use
cases
architecture
they
cover
kubernetes
integration
with
contrail
OpenShift,
which
is
I.
Believe
OpenShift
is
red.
Hats
kubernetes
right
or
is
it
the
red
hats?
Openstack
I
can't
remember.
B
B
Are
these
are
being
rolled
into
those,
so
there's
no
longer
going
to
be
a
CCNA
cloud
or
a
CCMP
cloud,
there's
a
big
warrant
if
I
search
for
CCNA
cloud
or
CCP
cloud
I
go
to
those
pages,
there's
a
huge
warming
on
the
top.
That
says,
you
know:
hey
FYI,
as
of
February
20
2007,
to
consolidate
a
CCNA
exam
and
yeah,
it
sounds
like
that's
gonna,
be
part
of
it:
oh
sweet,
Oh
Sees.
B
What
are
they
consolidating
with
sorry
sounds
like
everything
I
mean
the
the
the
gist
of
the
one
track,
there's
where
there's
sort
of
one
Enterprise
I
think
they
call
it.
Enterprise
networking
track
okay,
and
so
everything
is
on.
That
I
mean
if
you
look
at
that
overview.
There's
Network
fundamentals,
which
is
what
you
might
expect,
there's
also
security
fundamentals.
There's
automation
and
programmability
rolled
in
there.
Oh
that's.
A
B
Yep,
the
new
just
the
new
CCNA.
In
fact,
if
you
scroll
down
there's
a
section
that
says
migration
to
the
new
program
and
then
it
says
the
new
CCNA
certification
replaces
these
certifications
that
lists
literally
nine
certs.
So
these
are
all
going
away
being
replaced
by
the
one
CCNA
CCA
collaboration,
datacenter,
industrial
routing
and
switching
security
service
right
or
Wireless
and
CCDA
all
gone
now
part
of
the
one
CCNA
program.
B
A
Well,
yeah
yeah,
so
we
cover
like
I,
said
the
Juniper
want
the
the
cloud
track
covers.
You
know:
contrails
integration
with
things
like
OpenShift.
A
They
cover
vCenter
integration,
multi-cloud
networking,
which
includes
a
Zirin,
AWS
stuff
and
service
chaining.
They
cover
service
chaining,
which
is
pretty
pretty
interesting.
So
there's
you
know
and
they're
those
by
the
way,
the
jain,
the
juniper
cloud
training
now
goes
all
the
way
up
to
expert.
So
that's
something
you
know
if
your
that's
this
that's
something
you're
interested
in
I
mean
that's
that'd,
be
quite
the
progression.
I
can't
even
imagine
what
that
lab
must
be
like
wonder.
If
we
can
get
I
know
the
guys
that
we
know
the
guys
that
developed
that
certification.
B
Yeah,
there's
a
there's
a
lot
here:
yeah
just
between
just
between
all
of
the
different
things
under
the
contrail
umbrella
and
then
at
formics
and
multi
cloud,
which
it
sounds
like
that
Oh
interconnect,
a
private
enterprise
data
center
with
public
clouds,
so
you're
gonna,
need
to
know.
You're
gonna
need
to
know
a
little
bit
about
public
cloud.
Networking
in
order
to
you
know:
connect
connect
to
them,
transit,
VPC,
being
part
of
that
yeah.
A
B
B
I'm
sort
of
taking
up
on
a
trend
here,
which
is
that,
which
is
that
a
lot
of
times
when
you,
when
we
talked
about
ie
level
certs,
it
was
almost
always
about
depth
into
a
particular
platform.
So,
like
do
you
know
all
of
the
different
nerd
knobs
within
a
platform,
and
can
you
use
them
to
construct
a
network
that
it
accomplishes
the
XYZ
purposes
right
like
it
was
a?
B
It
was
mostly
about
deaf
looking
at
these
circuits,
and
this
is
not
just
the
Juniper
start,
the
same
thing
when
I
looked
over
at
the
city,
even
just
the
NP
level
of
certs
that
we
saw
previously
where
we
rattled
off.
All
of
those
all
of
those
topics
that
you
need
to
know.
I
mean
this
is
this
is
breath
like
you
got
to
know
a
lot
of
wildly
different
technologies
and
stitched
and
be
able
to
stitch
them
together.
A
B
A
B
I
think
I
think.
The
argument
is
that
they're,
consolidating
I,
remember,
listen
to
a
few
pakka
pusher
shows
where
they
were.
They
talked
about,
talked
about
the
speculated
about
the
motivation
behind
them
and
I
think
they
might
have
had
somebody
from
Cisco
on
to
talk
about
talk
about
the
changes.
This
was
I
think
a
year
ago
that
these
changes
were
at
least
announced
yeah.
A
A
So
now,
what's
interesting,
if
you're
listening
and
you're
wondering
you
know,
do
I
do
I
go
for
cloud.
Do
I
go
for
automation,
of
every
single
thing
that
we
named
off
in
the
automate
in
the
automation
related
search
both
in
Cisco,
almost
everything
rain,
both
in
the
Cisco
and
is
you
know,
putting
things
like
data
representation
and
api's
and
DevOps
practices
and
frameworks
and
see
ICD
pipelines
and
ansible
and
and
all
those
tools
and
stuff
all
of
that
applies
to
cloud.
A
B
A
A
Yeah
III
mean
everyone's
multi-cloud
know:
you're
gonna
do
a
non-print,
you're
gonna
do
ion
Prem
stuff
you're
gonna
do
stuff
in
the
cloud.
It's
not
gonna
hurt
to
have
both
both
certifications,
yeah
well,
both
kinds,
and
so
so.
We've
covered
networking
vendor
certification.
So
far
we
be
covered
Cisco
and
juniper
automation,
certifications,
we
covered
Cisco
and
juniper
cloud
certifications,
but
a
lot.
What
a
lot
of
people
might
not
know
and
I
and
I
think
this
is
endlessly
fascinating,
like
there's
so
much
smack
I
could
talk
about.
This
is
that
cloud.
A
Vendors
now
have
a
whole
myriad
range
of
certifications
and
they
have
both
Google
and
Amazon
have
networking
advanced
or
professional
level
networks
of
certifications
which,
as
prerequisites,
have
like
a
like
a
general
cloud
administration
type
certification
for
their
platforms,
which
includes
networking,
right
and
other
things,
storage
and
VMs
and
all
that
stuff.
And
then,
with
that
in
hand
you
can
go.
You
can
get
these
professional
or
advanced
networking
certifications.
So
there's
like
a
was
that
two-tiered
sort
of
certification
track
in
place
already
for
with
with
individual
cloud
vendors
and
what
I?
A
For
those
of
us
who
were
old
enough
to
remember
when
everything
was
just
so
easy,
you
wouldn't
need
certified
Network
people
to
do
cloud,
and
here
we
yahoo,
so
we
covered
there's
four
clouds
fortifications.
We
talked
about
it
on
this
podcast
and
two
of
them
are
for
cloud
vendors
themselves
so
and
they
both
actually
cover
roughly
the
same
stuff.
You
know
just
the
just
each
their
respective
versions
of
those
things
right
so
meant
you
wanted.
You
want
to
talk
about
a
little.
B
B
The
thing
is
like
I
still,
don't
that
I
don't
think
that
working
networking
is
an
industry
where
we
we're
accustomed
to
thinking
in
abstract
concepts
for
long
like
we're
capable
of
it
for
short
spurts,
but
a
lot
of
times
when
in
order
to
actually
like
properly
learn
a
subject,
it
has
to
be
within
this
within
the
concept
of
an
implementation,
because
it
has
to
be
really
got
to
be
able
to
play
with
it.
We
got
to
be
a
little
a
bit
one,
so
the
the
reality
is
again.
B
The
aw
assert
is
gonna
is
gonna
use
a
lot
of
a
Tobias
terminology,
but
the
good
news
is
networking
is
networking
so
there
there
there
are
topics
in
here
that
have
nothing
to
do
with
AWS
that
AWS.
Obviously
you
know
we'll
use
to
connect.
You
know
instances
together
things
like
basic.
You
know
cider
subnetting,
that
kind
of
thing
ipv6
transition
challenges
which
is
nice
to
see
in
here
networking.
Just
basically,
you
know
OSI
model
sort
of
networking
architectures
doing
things
like
IP,
VPN
or
MPLS
things
like
that.
B
So
there's
a
lot
in
here
that
doesn't
necessarily
have
to
do
just
with
AWS
I.
It
will
be
interesting
to
me
as
we
as
we
start
to
see
more
and
more,
you
know,
companies
that
are
already
in
the
cloud
hire
into
or
hire
out
of
the
you
know
the
universities
and
whatnot
I
wonder
if
their
first
sort
of
foray
into
networking
will
be
through
these
kind
of
certifications
like
just
take
a
take
an
example
of
a
student
who
has,
you
know,
focused
on
building
basic.
B
You
know
little
apps
within
within
AWS,
just
because
that's
where
the
school
wants
once
their
students
to
learn,
because
it's
you
know
it's
easy
to
spin
things
up
that
way,
and
so
the
student
starts
to
learn,
networking
the
AWS
way
and
then
and
and
or
learn
learn.
You
know
how
to
run
how
to
run
infrastructure
the
AWS
way
and
then
they're
like
hey,
there's
this
stuff
about
networking.
B
That
seems
to
be
like
a
black
box
which
doesn't
sound
familiar
at
all
right,
like
that's
kind
of
how
most
people
get
it
in
or
King
they
look
at
this.
They
look
at
this
black
box
and
they're,
either
terrified
of
it
they
run
away
or
they
they're
terrified
it
and
they've
run
to
it
and
I
feel
like
that
might
happen
here
too,
because
looking
looking
at
both
the
AWS
and
the
GC
certifications,
there's
a
lot
here.
That
is
just
raw
networking
knowledge,
at
least
at
the
at
the
lowest
sort
of
introductory
level.
A
A
Another
thing
that
happened
early
on
with
cloud
is
that
they
made
it
sound
like
it
was
the
app
it
was,
the
app
people
who
were
driving
cloud
consumption
and
interfacing
with
you
know
the
cloud
provider
at
the
service
level
and
building
these
in
these
environments
and-
and
that
might
have
been
true
in
the
very
beginning
when
things
were
very
simple,
but
in
a
lot
of
places
now
the
the
app
people
do
not
manage
those
services
at
that
level.
They,
you
know
they.
A
They
have
actual
cloud
admins
they're,
just
like
sus
admins,
that
dead
that
run
the
cloud
environment
and
their
apps
are.
You
know,
deployed
on
top
of
those
environments
and
so
those
cloud
admins
right
there
they
they're
they.
They
understand
concepts
like
virtual
routers
and
virtual
firewalls
and,
and
you
know,
cloud
connectivity
with
dynamic,
routing
and
stuff
like
that
and
they're
they're
intro
to
yeah
they're
interested
networking
will
be
by
the
cloud
and
not
traditional
networking,
which
makes
me
feel
very
old.
B
Like
I,
try
to
when
I
talk
to
network
engineers
about
what
they
view
as
the
apps
people
like
there's
so
many
different
types
of
people
there
and
as
an
example
like
as
a
software
developers,
do
you
think
like
eagerly
like,
like
with
relish,
look
forward
to
managing
their
own,
see
ICD
pipelines
like
nobody
that
net
that
doesn't
happen,
developers
hate
managing
that
kind
of
stuff.
They
view
that
as
infrastructure
or
databases.
B
That's
another
thing:
a
lot
of
developers
like
to
refer
to
things
like
databases
as
infrastructure,
so
like
as
a
network
engineer
looking
at
that
whole
world,
and
you
know
they
lump
all
of
that
together
as
developers.
It's
like
no
dude
that
infrastructure
line
is
like
way
further
up
than
you
think
and,
and
so
and
but
I
say
that
as
an
as
a
form
of
encouragement,
because
the
reality
is
these.
The
infrastructure
space
is
way
bigger
than
anybody
realizes,
and
that
includes
a
lot
of
this
cloud
stuff.
B
A
Yeah
I
don't
think
we
actually
said
the
name
of
these
search.
So
Google
has
this
or
called
the
Google
professional
cloud
network
engineer
who
I
think
the
full
yeah
the
prerequisite
to
that
is
Lim's.
I
can't
remember
the
name
of
the
course.
But
it's
you
know
basic
cloud
admin
that
does
cover
some
basic
networking
stuff,
and
this
is
sort
of
like
the
advanced
stuff
and
it's
both
networking
within
your
cloud
environment,
how
to
set
up
VB,
C's
and
routing
and
subnets
inside
of
EPCs.
B
A
sorry
to
interrupt
the
the
way
that
Google
seems
to
have
these
laid
out.
They
have
an
associate
sir
trite,
which
is
just
a
one
single,
it's
kind
of
like
their
CCENT
right.
It's
like
you,
take
this
and
it's
like
a
light
introduction
to
the
whole
gamut,
and
then
you
go
to
the
professional
certifications.
That's
where
you
can
split
off
into
like
cloud
or
data,
networking
security
collaboration,
that
kind
of
thing
yeah.
A
And
I
think
all
of
Google's
training
like
that
Google
maintains,
like
official
training
on
the
udemy
I,
think
he's
udemy
or
Coursera
I
can't
Ramona
the
to
I.
Can't
remember.
You
know
what
I'm
gonna
look
that
up
real,
quick
but
actually
before
I
do
that
they
they
also
cover.
You
know
things
that
are
in
some
network
shops
anyways.
The
network.
People
don't
actually
always
maintain
these
things,
but
in
under
the
umbrella
of
this
certification,
they're
included
and
that's
standing
up
virtual
load
balancers
security
stuff,
like
firewalls
IPS
services,
you
know
DDoS
services.
A
A
A
B
If
you're,
looking
at
the
difference
between
the
platforms,
there
are
some
differences
like
AWS,
doesn't
have
any
layer
two
between
instances,
whereas
GCP
does
you
can
set
up
a
subnet
that
has
you
know
it's
a
broadcast
domain
effectively,
so
there's
there's
always
implementation
specific
differences,
but
but
yeah
largely
like
it.
It's
kind
of
like
I
said
before,
like
networking
is
networking,
especially
in
the
cloud.
If
you
know,
if
you
come
in
with
networking
knowledge,
I
think
it's
a
lot
easier
to
tell
when
something
is
specific
to
the
clap.
To
that
one
cloud
or
verses.
B
You
know
it's
more
of
a
networking
fundamentals,
the
the
thing
I.
The
thing
I
was
saying
earlier,
though,
where
if
this
is
your
first,
if
this
is
your
first
foray
into
networking,
you
might
not
be
able
to
understand
that
difference
right
off
the
bat.
But
a
lot
of
this
stuff
is
totally
transferable.
Just
cuz
networking
is
networking.
A
So
it
actually
yeah
it
looks
like
Arista
has
an
automation,
certification
that
goes
up
to
the
e
level.
It's
called,
and
the
e
level
is
the
AC
II
P
exam.
They
have
training
specific
for
it.
It's
a
wrister
programming
Jules
is
what
they
call
the
the
course,
and
it
covers
things
like.
It
covers
Python
programming.
A
Well
Wow:
this
is
this
is
largely
a
Python
probing
programming
class
with
some
looks
like
yo
s
specific
stuff
like
there
there
api's
some
other
things
in
there
that
are
sort
of
ERISA
specific,
but
so
ERISA
does
have
an
entire
certification
track
on.
It
looks
like
Python
in
there
Python
API,
that's
pretty
interesting.
A
Wow,
that's
a
lot
of
the
you
know
what
we
should
summarize
these,
maybe
somewhere
in
a
blog
post,
because
we're
talking
about
was
that
one
one,
two
three
four
five:
six
certification
tracks
across
four
different
vendors:
five,
different
vendors
for
a
network,
automation,
stuff,
right
and
I-
include
cloud
under
that
umbrella.
Because
it's
you
know
it's
I.
A
A
You
know
we
have
of
just
a
few
minutes.
Left
we've
been
on
this
call
for
a
little
while,
because
this
is
the
breadth
of
it.
But
I
just
want
to
reiterate.
I
said
at
the
beginning
and
now
I
didn't
realize
there
was
six
of
them.
I
I
missed
a
few
preparing
for
the
show.
Definitely
for
sure
it
seems
like
you
know,
with
that
many
major
vendors
covering
this
area
and
that
many
certifications
going
up.
You
know
all
the
way
up
to
the
e
level
in
some
cases,
so
we're
talking
about
very
difficult
exams.
A
They
don't
they
don't
create
these
certification
tracks
and
put
these
training
programs
together
for
nothing.
People
are
asking
for
it.
So
this
you
know
this
skill
set
is
is
now
you
know
it's
it's
valuable.
It's
it's
valuable
and
it's.
This
is
something
you're
interested
in.
You
had
a
lot
of
you
navel
a
lot
of
options
now
so
I
encourage
encourage
everyone
whatever
it
is
you're
using
your
environment,
whether
it's
you
know,
cisco,
juniper,
Arista,
weather
or
you
know,
all
of
the
above.
A
Some
people
have
many
vendors
or
some
multiple
vendors,
whether
you're
in
you
know
Google
or
AWS.
You
know
these
are
these
certifications
you
know,
could
end
up
being
quite
valuable.
You
certainly
learn
at
least
some
skills
in
the
process,
like
I,
said,
seed,
those
foundations,
so
that
you
can
go
and
you
can
train
yourself
more
deeply
on
on
these
other
topics.
I'd,
you
know
and.
B
A
Matt,
do
you
think,
do
you
think,
when
these
sort
of
certifications,
surface
and
and
they're
widely
accepted,
look
with
this
many
vendors?
You
know
this
is
now
commonly
accepted
as
something
of
value.
Do
you
think
this
is
sort
of
a
like
a
threshold
or
a
benchmark?
Now
that
says,
you
know
that
this
is
now
mainstream.
This
is
now
something
to
pay
attention
to.
Like
would
I
mean
it
seems
like
it
seems
like
to
me.
It
is
like
I'm
I'm
sort
of
making
this
assumption
when
I'm,
when
I'm
sitting
here
talking
about
this
stuff
ya.
B
B
You
know
technology
areas
like
you
have
to
leverage
your
creativity
a
lot
more
to
to
to
build
things
there.
It's
just
a
much
more
of
an
open-ended
thing
right.
So
there's
not
like
one
way
to
do
any
of
that
stuff.
That's
technically
true
in
networking
I'm,
just
saying
it's
even
less
true
and
when
you're
talking
about
building
software
for
any
purpose,
so
I
think
these
certifications
exist
because
you
know
networking,
folks
or
really
infrastructure.
Folks
as
a
whole
are
like
look.
B
This
is
all
very
new
I
I
need
guidance,
I
need
structure
and
the
structure
that
they've
been
given
thus
far
through
the
certification
program,
so
I
think
having
these
out.
There
is
the
natural
extension
of
that.
Will
these?
Will
these
survive
in
five
to
ten
years?
I,
don't
know,
maybe
it's
maybe
it's
just
a
transition
tool.
You
know,
maybe
ones
all
that
maybe
once
the
the
industry
as
a
whole,
once
we
get
critical
mass
around
a
lot
of
these
new
terms
and
tools
and
languages,
then
maybe
these
won't
be
needed
anymore.
B
But
that's
you
know
it's
impossible
to
predict.
That's
that's
at
least
twenty
years
out,
probably
so,
who
knows
but
clearly
clearly
to
your
point.
These
exist
because
of
one
thing,
and
that
is
demand.
You
know
a
lot.
I
cannot
tell
you
the
number
of
folks
when
I
give
a
talk,
I,
don't
give
a
talk
in
the
context
of
a
certification
program.
B
I
give
a
talking
or
a
workshop
in
in
in
the
context
of
my
own
experiences,
and
so
the
next
question
after
you
know,
questions
after
the
after
the
workshop
is
like
how
you
know
where
do
I
go
now?
How
can
I
continue
to
learn
and
a
lot
of
folks?
You
know
they.
They
need
that
structure.
They
need
somebody
to
give
them
the
syllabus
right
yeah
so
that
they
know
what's
out
there
and
and
that's
what
I
think
that's
what
these
certification
programs
offer,
which
is,
which
is
understandable.
B
The
encouragement
that
I
would
offer
is:
yes,
that's
fine
treat
these
as
sort
of
an
intro
syllabus
where
it
gives
you
the
sort
of
the
list
of
topics
that
you
didn't
even
know
existed,
and
that
way
they
become
that
way.
They're
on
your
radar,
which
is
which
is
awesome,
do
that,
but
then
go
further.
Don't
stop
there,
don't
just
stop
it.
What
these
certifications
offer
use
them
as
a
guide
for
teaching
you
the
existence
of
these
topics
once
you
go
through
the
cert
continue
to
go
much
more
deep.
B
A
We'll
make
a
list
of
these,
you
know
we'll
link
to
all
of
them
and
we'll
put
them
on
our
on
our
site.
You
know
I.
Can
this
wouldn't
be
hard
to
do
that,
but
we'll
maybe
it'll
show
up
tomorrow
or
the
next
day
yeah,
just
as
a
so
people
can
can
check
it
out
all
right.
Thank
you
for
joining
us
today.
Again
I'm
Derrick,
winkworth
aka
at
cloud
toad.
All
one
word:
clo
UDT
OAD.