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B
Yeah
I
I,
just
for
brevity,
sometimes
I
I
keep
a
stash
of
sometime
nitro.
If
you've
listened
to
the
tech,
village
podcast,
you
know
that
I
have
a
special
place
in
my
heart
for
Stumptown
nitro
coffee,
because
it's
very
quick
it
doesn't
take
any
time
to
make
it's
already
in
a
can
you
just
pour
it
and
it's
quite
good.
It's
it.
It's
black
coffee
people
always
kind
of
like
a
black
coffee,
but
it's
it's
actually
not
bad.
The
the
nitro
makes
it.
B
You
know
that
gives
it
like
a
creamy
mouthfeel,
which
is
which
is
decent
and
it
looks
like
stout
and
I'm,
not
really
drinking
anymore.
So
this
is
like
me
living
through.
My
like
past
me,
like
a
style,
was
my
first
drink
as
a
21
year
old.
So
like
a
little
bit
of
nostalgia
built
in
there,
not
to
mention
it's
like
you
know,
10
10
20
for
my
time,
so
I
can
join
meetings
in
the
morning
and
be
like
yeah
Cheers.
B
A
That's
a
terrible
hang-up
to
have
life
is
better
when
you
can
drink
beer
in
the
morning
for
sure
I
have
heard
so
alright,
we'll
just
assume
that
we
have
the
we
have
the
viewers
that
we're
gonna
have
for
the
time
being.
How
about
that
welcome
to
the
enemy
labs,
livestream
we're
this
is
our.
This
is
our
1000th
episode
just
kidding.
It's
not.
B
B
A
B
A
B
B
B
I,
don't
know
like
I
I'm
thinking,
I'm
thinking
on
my
feet
here
but
like
it
feels
like
something
that
wouldn't
go
well
and
look
just
because
everything's
so
very
different
from
project
to
project
I,
don't
know
I!
Imagine
that
they,
if
you
the
more
experience
you
have
the
more
the
more
some
certain
things
become
much
more
of
a
science
than
an
art.
I
would
expect
that
that
would
be
the
answer.
Lisa
would
give
to
that.
To
that
thought
like.
A
B
B
A
B
B
Of
the
rugs
or
the
opposite,
maybe
they're
burning
like
proprietary
Terms
of
Service
and
effigy,
and
that's
like
their
presentation
or
preparation
for
like
getting
involved
with
community
like
oh
yeah,
these
proprietary
things
burn
them
and
then
that's
their
practice.
These
are
going
on
the
take
control
back
on
the
live
stream
know.
B
A
A
I
I
do
that
every
time
I
do
that,
every
day,
whatever
one
day,
it'll
stop
and
for
this
week's
stream
we
are
going
to
talk
about
Matt's
adventures
in
inter-app.
For
those
of
you
that
don't
know
Interop
in
Las
Vegas
every
year,
there's
a
sort
of
Network
automation
thing
that
happens.
It's
one
was
sort
of
a
quasi
official,
Network,
automation,
event.
A
Interop
is
and
a
whole
bunch
of
people
from
all
over
the
network.
Automation
community
show
up
and
they
commingle
and
are
very
polite
and
courteous
to
each
other,
and
they
talk
about
nerd,
stuff,
automation
and
so
Matt
went
and
Matt
is
gonna
talk
today,
while
will
I
listen
about
his
experience
there
and
some
of
the
cool
stuff
he
he
saw
and
and
how
he
thinks
some
of
the
release
back
to
enemy
labs,
right,
Matt,
yeah,.
B
Yeah
I
mean
so
just
for
some
context:
I
I
I
started
speaking
at
Interop
fairly
regularly
back
in
2015.
Oh
man,
I,
don't
remember
even
who,
who
originally
reached
out
to
me
I
kind
of
feel
bad
about
that.
Actually,
because
it
was
kind
of
a
cool
opportunity.
I
I
did
a
workshop,
my
very
first
time
at
interrupts.
It
was
the
first
time
attending
as
well
as
speaking
in
fact,
I.
Don't
know
that
I've
ever
gone
to
interrupt
and
not
have
some
sort
of
a
speaking
engagement,
either
minor
or
major.
B
The
first
one
was
major
because
it
was
more
of
like
a
workshop.
It
was.
It
was
like
a
three
hour
workshop
on
at
the
time
Network
automation
with
oh
man,
Python
and
ansible
it
was.
It
was
a
I
held
a
three
hour
workshop
on
how
to
do
that,
and-
and
this
has
actually
become
a
little
bit
of
foundational
for
me,
because
I
actually
had
produced
as
part
of
that
workshop,
a
big
github
repo
that
I
called
nwk
Auto
Network
for
Network
automation,
and
the
idea
was
that
I
would
just
use
that.
B
For
my
my
talk,
I
still
get
people
starring
that
repo
I'm
not
sure
how
many
stars
and
that's
probably
not
a
ton
but
like
I,
still
get
people
forking
it
and
starring
in
I,
haven't
made
I
haven't
made
a
commit
to
that
repo-
probably
at
least
at
least
two
three
years
I
know
I
didn't
make
it
ton
of
commits
after
the
talk
in
general.
But
anyway
that
was
my
first.
That
was
my
first
talk.
I'd
interrupt.
B
It
was
a
workshop
I
think
I
had
like
that,
and
maybe
a
smaller
speaking
thing
that
year,
the
next
year
I
released
a
project
that
I
still
want
to
work
on.
I
actually
still
have
things.
I
want
to
do.
They're
called
Todd,
so
anyway,
I've
been
I've
been
going
to
interrupt
for
a
while
for
a
number
of
years
now
and
what
you
just
heard
some
context
on
line
one
this
year,
every
once
in
a
while,
like
it
seems
like
every
other
year,
there's
like
there's
a
to
the
way
Interop,
it's
a
it's.
B
A
big
multi
vendor
conference
used.
It
used
to
be
back
in
the
day
before
I
started,
going
that
it
was
used
to
test
it
for
vendors
to
meet
sort
of
in
a
neutral
space
and
test
interoperability
between
them,
like
when
routing
protocols
were
being
developed.
Things
like
that
you'd
connect
them
together
and
they'd
interact
with
each
other,
and
there
would
be
like
a
proving
ground
kind
of
thing.
I
think
they
still
have
some
of
that,
but
it's
definitely
not
the
focus.
If
it
does
exist,
I
certainly
haven't
seen
it
attending
the
times
that
I've
gone.
B
Now,
it's
more
more
just
kind
of
like
a
regular
conference,
but
still
multi-vendor.
It's
meant
to
be
vendor
agnostic.
So
the
idea
is
that
that
conference,
more
or
less
starts
on
the
Wednesday
of
the
week,
Tuesday
and
Monday
the
two
days
prior
to
the
actual
Interop
conference,
meaning
like
the
general
sessions
and
whatnot
like
the
keynote
that
kicks
off
the
conference,
is
on
Wednesday
yeah.
A
B
Monday
and
Tuesday
are
always
have
ends.
This
is
the
truce
I
started
going
because
I
participated
in
this
on
my
first
year,
Monday
Tuesday
our
workshops,
and
so
the
idea
is
that
attendees
would
pay
extra
to
go
to
one
of
these
workshops.
You
basically
pay
for
it
kind
of
like
you
pay
for
like
a
college
course.
It
would
be.
You
know
the
price
of
getting
into
Interop.
That
gets
you
into
the
show
and
all
the
general
sessions
like
the
50-minute
talks
and
things
like
that.
Yeah.
A
B
Then
you
pick
the
workshops
that
you
want
to
go
to
there
on
Monday
Tuesday
and
there
some
sort
of
a
flat
fee.
Now
these
could
be
three-hour
workshops
or
some
people.
What
they
do
is
they
saying
like
look
I
want
us
I
want
like
a
mini
summit,
I'd
like
to
allocate
an
entire
room,
Monday
and
Tuesday,
and
just
go
all
out
the
packet
pushers
did
this
last
year
or
two
years
ago
it
was
two
years
ago.
I
was
I,
went
to
that
I.
Didn't
oh
I
can't
remember
price.
No,
they
did
ask
me.
B
I
spoke
there
as
well
and
then
also
sometimes,
and
it
could
be
a
difference,
a
different
person
or
a
different
company.
That's
like
sponsoring
this,
but
network
to
code.
We've
talked
about
them
on
the
stream
before
they
actually
sponsored
a
2-day
Network
automation
summit,
which
was
again
Monday
and
Tuesday
and
I
could
be
wrong,
but
I'm
pretty
sure
that
that
people
paid
to
get
in
that,
and
and
that's
impressive,
if
you
consider
how
many
people
were
there,
it
was
often
standing
room
only
in
fact,
almost
all
the
time,
certainly
the
first
day.
So
that's
that's!
B
Really!
Cool
if
again,
it's
cool
regardless,
but
especially
if
people
are
paying
extra
to
go
there
kind
of
shows
where
people
are
where
their
heads
are
at.
So
that's
why
I
went
to
I
went
to
you
know,
Jason.
You
know
founder
of
network
to
go
reached
out
to
me
and
asked
if
I
would
speak
there,
I
had
already
I
was
already
going
to
interrupt
to
speak
at
a
sort
of
a
regular.
Like
you
know,
session,
like
a
4550
minute
kind
of
thing.
B
So
it's
just
generally
a
really
good
team
of
folks
to
work
with
or
to
be
associated
with,
and
so
that's
that's
what
I
was
there
for
Jason
then
reached
out
to
me
and
said:
hey:
can
you
talk
about
something
at
the
automation,
workshop
and
I
said?
Well,
you
know
I'm
not
really
diving
too
much
into
NRE
labs
in
our
in
you
know
in
in
my
like
main
talk
on
Wednesday.
B
So
what
I
could
do
is
just
you
know,
make
it
a
you
know
deep
dive
on
how
in
our
labs
works
and
then
how
you
might
contribute
to
it,
because
you
know
the
focus
of
the
later
talk.
Wasn't
necessarily.
Energy
labs
was
much
more
broadly
like
NRI
behaviors,
and
things
like
that.
Then
we
mentioned
energy
labs
at
the
end
as
a
sort
of
takeaway.
So
that's
why
I
did
it?
It
was
a
for
the
for
the
automation
summit,
for
it
was
on
Monday.
B
It
was
like
Monday
afternoon
right
after
lunch
and
yeah
I
went
into
a
lot
of
detail
a
lot,
probably
more
detail
than
I
ever
have
in
in
like
a
talk
setting
on
the
platform
and
and
how
it
works.
I
even
I
even
talked
a
little
bit
about
future
stuff
too,
like
I
redid
the
architecture
diagram
to
be
much
more
like
what
it
will
be
instead
of
what
it
currently
is.
So
it
was
pretty
good
talk.
Man
and
it
was
I,
think
it
was
fairly
well
received.
A
B
Kind
of
thing,
but
juniper
has
like
a
a
what
is
page
and
call
it.
What
is
pages
basically
lets
you
define
certain
terms,
so
we
have
a
what
is
NRI
page
and
in
that
we
have
the
six
key
behaviors.
Now
it's
on
juniper
site,
but
if,
but
just
FYI
it
doesn't
really
contain
anything.
Juniper
specific
it
just
happens
to
be
on
juniper
site.
We
will
be
going
into
much
more
detail
on
these
key
behaviors
elsewhere,
probably
on
the
NRI
labs
or
on
the
you
know,
the
NRA
site,
because
these
are
not.
B
This
is
not
juniper
specific.
It's.
My
big
thing
is
especially
after
reading
books,
like
you
know,
like
the
books,
which
you
know
or
influencers,
which
chair
Schulman,
put
me
on
metier,
due
to
some
of
the
inherent
ambiguity
of
what
we
talk
about,
sometimes
that
we
need
to
be
much
more
prescriptive
with
the
things
that
people
the
things
that
we
advocate
for
people
to
do,
we
we
tend
to
sort
of
beat
around
the
bush
a
little
bit
when
we
talk
about
Network
automation,
because
everybody's
got
different
experiences.
A
B
B
B
You
can
make
things
too
ambiguous
to
a
fault
like
you
can
make
it
so
that,
like
you,
try
to
create
the
sense
of
flexibility
in
people's
heads
like
well,
there's
a
bunch
of
ways
to
do
something,
that's
great
if
they
feel
empowered
to
take
action
if
they
still
take
empower
to
take
action.
If
you
create
this
impression
within
people's
minds
that
there's
so
many
ways
to
do
things
and-
and
you
know
they
feel
like
they
got
to
boil
the
ocean
and
learn
it
all
started.
That
has
the
opposite
effect
in
my
mind.
B
The
specific
thing
that
you
will
do
will
be
different
in
your
environment,
but
no
matter
what
it'll
fit
into
one
of
these,
like
five
key
behaviors,
if
you're
doing
something
like
what
I'm
describing
you're,
probably
on
the
right
track,
and
so
that
lets
people
move
forward
with
some
specifics
which
we
advocate
for
an
NRI
Labs,
we
certainly
have
content
that
like
lets
them
do
specific
things,
but
it
also
doesn't
constrain
them
and
say
like
this
is
the
only
thing
you
can
do
it
like
you?
Can
you
can
play
with
it?
You
can
build
a
solution.
B
You
can
use
a
totally
different
tool
if
you
want
that's
not
important.
What's
important
is
that
you
fit
within
some
of
these
key
behaviors
that
we
feel
are
shared
amongst
anybody
that
kind
of
success
in
this
space.
Like
any
time
you
look
at
it
at
a
successful
automation
initiative,
they
tend
to
follow
a
pretty
a
pretty
consistent
pattern,
wildly
different
implementation
details.
This
is
this
is
my
big
thing.
When
people
talk
about
when,
when
people
talk
about,
you
know
Google
Facebook
what
they
do
and
they
immediately
write
it
off
because
I'm
not
Google
Facebook.
B
It's
like
sure
you
should
write
off
mostly
the
implementation
details,
the
things
they're
solving.
Fourth,
at
certainly
with
respect
to
scale
just
not
relevant
to
just
about
anybody
else,
but
they
still
follow
a
pattern
that
is
very
much
applicable
to
a
lot
of
people
and
those
are
the
kind
of
behaviors
and
patterns
that
we
like
to
suss
out,
because
if
that's
the
goal,
that's
the
goal
that
we've
been
trying
to
get
at
for
for
a
long
time,
nice.
A
B
That
was
my
talk
on
Wednesday,
okay,
that
was
much
more
generic,
but
not
generic,
but
like
more
like
behavioral
and,
like
you
know,
if
you're
constructing
a
reliability,
engineering
team
or
if
you're
thinking
about
getting
into
it
here
are
the
kind
of
things
that
are
probably
gonna
be
important
to
you.
That
was
kind
of
the
main
gist
of
it
and
then
the
the
you
know
the
automation
summit
that
took
place
on
Monday
and
Tuesday
was
about
all
kinds
of
stuff.
I,
don't
just
mean
my
talk.
B
It
was
there
was
a
bunch
of
stuff,
a
bunch
of
different
speakers
that
came
up
to
talk
about
a
bunch
of
different
things
and
I.
You
know
didn't
talk
specifically
around
NRE
labs
and
how
to
get
how
to
get
involved.
The
idea
was
that,
because
there
were
a
lot
of
people
at
that
summit,
that
new
automation,
more
so
than
the
rest
of
the
conference,
I
felt
like
it
was
probably
a
good
idea
to
solicit
contributors
there,
because
you
know
a
lot
of
people
that
run
projects
like
this
wasn't
necessarily
true.
B
A
B
If
you're
doing,
if
you're
doing
automation
on
top
of
like
cisco,
for
instance,
you
probably
run
into
nico
david
Barroso
has
been
at
this
kind
of
thing
before
he
wasn't
there
this
year,
but
their
napalm
project.
You
know
I'm
in
charge.
You
know
he
he
would
say
that
he's
just
you
know,
he's
nobody's
really
in
charge
of
it,
but
he
started
it.
So
that's
what
I
mean
when
I
say
that,
so
he
started
a
napalm
project
with
with
a
few
other
folks
at
Lisa.
B
Yes,
it's
been
a
long
time
since
I
had
to
pronounce
her
name
but
yeah
Lisa.
She
she
and
him
when
they
worked
it
to
Spotify.
They
started
that
so
anyway,
it's
a
mic.
The
thought
behind
this
was
there's
a
there's
like
a
confluence
of
people
who
run
projects
like
this
or
at
least
help
start
them
and
and
and
are
helping
to
run
them
and
and
having
those
folks
involved
in
the
project
is
important
to
me,
not
necessarily
I
mean.
B
You
know
we
were
all
about
bright
spot
analysis,
what's
working
in
the
industry,
that
if
only
other
people
knew
about
it
or
if
only
other
people
had
more
experience
with
it,
things
would
be
a
lot
better
rather
than
pockets
of
people
having
success
and
then
the
rest
of
the
people
around
those
pockets,
just
kind
of
don't
want
to
get
started
or
feel
like
they
can't
get
started.
That's
the
problem
we're
looking
to
solve
so.
A
Yeah,
that's
that's
the
that's
the
big
thing
right,
trying
to
get
people
to
think
a
little
bit
differently
about
what
automation
is.
Reliability
is
always
I
mean
people
respond
so
well
to
it,
and
you
know
with
the
behavior
thing
you
were
saying
earlier:
people
not
knowing
how
to
start
right.
One
of
the
things
I
find
it's
not
that
there's
necessarily
so
many
tools.
There's
lots
of
ways
to
do
lots
of
things
in
networking.
I
think
we're
used
to
that
yeah.
B
A
Not
understanding
the
nuances
well
enough
between
them
to
know
what
the
limitations
of
the
of
each
option
is
right
like
for
this
particular
workflow.
How
do
I
know
which
tool
is
gonna
be
best
for
that
and
or
whatever
you
know,
this
particular
workflow,
this
particular
vendor
this
particular
network
design
I
mean
it
can
get
kind
of,
even
very
specific.
If
you
think
about
it
so
I,
you
know,
that's
one
of
the
I
don't
know
I'm,
injecting
tangental
nonsense
into
your
stream
of
thought.
You're.
B
It's
always
a
balancing
act.
The
the
industry
is
it's
a
it's
a
you
know
it's
a
small
world,
but
it's
also
not
there's
a
lot
of
things
going
on
and
I
think
people
get
wrapped
up
around
details
a
little
too
much
I.
Think
if
you
go
in
with
the
if
you
go
into
any
project.
This
is
true
not
just
of
automation,
because
on
or
like
on
the
software
side
of
things,
then
probably
what
a
lot
of
people
are
used
to
dealing
with,
but
I
think
I.
B
A
B
Like
everybody,
everybody
assumes
like
that
they,
you
know,
you
hear
a
lot
of
advice
from
other
parents
that
were
like
well.
You're
gonna
have
to
do
this,
and
this
is
how
this
is
gonna
work,
all
that
I
I've
given
I'm.
Actually
given
some
parenting
advice
to
some
people,
not
ready
to
name
names
because
I,
don't
think
they're
ready
to
announce
it,
but
some
people-
and
you
know
that
I
know-
are
going
to
be
parents
soon
and
and
I
and
I've
played
that
card.
B
Where
I'm
like,
oh
I'm,
a
parent,
so
I'm,
gonna,
I'm
gonna,
give
you
some
advice.
I
always
give
one
piece
of
advice
and
I
always
I
always
give
this
context.
I'm,
like
I'm,
like
I'm
gonna,
give
you
some
advice,
and
it's
100%
true,
and
it's
the
only
piece
of
advice
that
I'll
ever
give
you
it's
universally
applicable
here.
It
is
all
parenting.
Advice
is
BS
like
no
one.
B
First
off,
no
one
knows
what
they're
doing
the
first
time
and
second
off
everybody's
situation
is
different
and
that's
certainly
been
true
for
me,
because
I
got
a
lot
of
advice
before
I
had
my
dog,
and
most
of
it
was
just
not
true
like
it
just
wasn't.
True
I
had
to
figure
a
lot
of
stuff
out
on
my
own
anyway,
but
see
that's
the
thing
like
if
you
go
in
with
out
minds
bringing
this
around.
B
If
you
go
in
with
that
mindset
to
any
project
that
you
that
you
you
take,
you
got
a
you've
got
to
be
careful
taking
on
too
much
detail,
because
a
lot
of
that
detail,
a
just,
won't
be
true
for
you,
and
even
if
it
is,
it
won't
hit
home
for
you
nearly
as
much
unless
you
figure
it
out
yourself.
Now,
that's
not
to
say
you
should
go
in
cold
and
not
prepared.
B
Certainly
there
are
things
you
should
do
to
prepare
yourself
just
like
if
you're
having
in
having
a
kid,
there's
books,
you
can
read
to
help
prepare
you,
but
you
know
mindset
not
advocating
that
you
shouldn't
do
that.
Similarly,
you
shouldn't
just
shut
yourself
off
from
the
rest
of
the
world
and
say
I'm
gonna
do
automation
and
I'm
gonna.
B
Do
it
my
way
and
just
discover
everything
from
scratch,
like
you
shouldn't,
do
that
you
should
you
should
at
least
be
aware
of
what
other
people
are
doing,
but
instead
of
going
all
the
way
to
the
other
side
of
the
spectrum
and
saying,
like
oh
so-and-so,
deal
used
ansible
and
they
built
they
use
these
moms.
So
that's
exactly
what
I'm
gonna
do
be
careful,
because
a
lot
of
that
detail
probably
won't
be
relevant
to
you
and
even
if
it
is
relevant
to
you
like
I,
said,
there's
a
certain
amount
of
experience.
B
That's
built
up
just
by
doing,
and
that's
the
more
important
thing.
So
the
balance
we
like
to
strike
is
advocating
for
the
for
the
generalized
behaviors
here.
Are
the
patterns
that
you'll
observe-
and
you
know
these
five
key
behaviors
that
we
talked
about.
We
don't
really
mention
a
lot
of
tools
because
there's
not
really
a
point.
It's
not
about
the
tools.
You
use
it's
about
the
behaviors
that
you
exhibit
while
you're
using
them.
B
That's
the
thing
that
I
think
we're
missing
in
the
industry
as
we
get
so
wrapped
up
around
tools,
and
so
the
conversation
then
becomes
all
about
tools.
This
is
a
little
controversial
because
it's
gonna
sound
like
I.
Don't
like
ansible
I,
it's
not
about
it's,
not
about
not
liking
ansible.
It's
about
how
wrapped
up
people
are
right
now
about
this
one
particular
tool.
B
A
B
B
There
was
a
panel
at
the
very
very
end
of
the
these
two
days
and
I
actually
raised
this
question.
I
I
like
to
be
a
little
bit
controversial
while
maintaining
respectfulness.
So
what
I
said
was
I
said:
I
actually
said
you
know:
I
talked
to
a
lot
of
customers.
A
lot
of
people
around
the
community
and
I
can
count
on
one
finger.
The
number
of
people
that
do
that
chain
that
do
like
network
changes
more
than
fifteen
percent
of
their
day
like
or
their
week.
B
Yet
our
hello
world
for
Network
automation
has
been
for
three
years
has
been
making
network
changes
with
ansible
and
I
actually
asked
the
question
I
said:
is
it
time
that
we
changed
the
hello
world
of
network
automation
because
it
doesn't
seem
like
it
matches
up
with
with
reality?
You
know
people
get
involved
in
network
automation
and
they
get
the
impression
that,
because
the
hello
world
is
making
Network
changes
with
ansible,
that
must
mean
that
everybody
and
know
everybody
in
network
automation
is
doing
nothing
but
changing
configs.
B
But
if
you
talk
to
people
that
are
actually
putting
this
into
production,
it's
not
true.
They
they
have.
This
structure
there
for
changing
configs
in
an
automated
way,
but
that's
that's
almost
a
it's
a
it's
a
fairly
minor
feature
of
the
overall
picture,
the
things
that
they
spend
a
lot
more
of
their
time
on
are
things
like
visibility
and
troubleshooting,
and
there
wasn't
a
good
answer.
I
mean
I.
I
wasn't
looking
for
an
answer
anyway.
B
B
We
inadvertently
scare
people
away
if
we
present
this
hello
world
to
them.
That
makes
them
think
that
they've
got
to
be
making
a
lot
of
changes
in
order
to
find
value
here
like
if
that
held
it
like
the
hello
world,
when
you
get
it
when
you're
gonna
do
a
programming
and
you
look
for
if
you
look
for
hello
world
examples
and
for
those
that
don't
know
hello
world
like
the
the
thing
you
do
first
in
any
really
technology
frankly,
but
but
it's
typically
in
a
programming
language.
B
The
first
thing
should
do
is
write
the
smallest
amount
of
code
possible
necessary
to
print
the
world.
The
words
hello
world
that
doesn't
make
you
an
expert
in
the
language
by
any
stretch,
but
it
tells
it
teaches
you
enough
about
the
language
that
you
know
that
you
have
a
starting
point.
It's
like
that.
B
That's
a
lot
first
off!
That's
a
lot
to
learn,
ansible
and
all
of
the
dependencies
there
in
templating
languages
and
yeah
mole.
Like
all
of
these
things
like
you,
have
to
learn
before
you
get
to
a
hello
world
of
network
automation,
not
to
mention
even
if
that
wasn't
true,
even
if
it
was
fairly
easy
to
learn
it
sets
this.
It
sets
the
expectation
that
oh
you're
teaching
me
something
that
will
allow
me
to
make
changes
in
tirana,
mated
fashion,
that
must
that
must
be
the
most
valuable
thing.
B
I
can
learn
that
must
that
must
for
everybody,
that's
involved
in
network
automation.
That
must
be
the
thing
that
they've
invested
time
and
because
they
they
they
have
to
do
that.
So
often,
then
you
have
then
people
that
are
getting
involved
are
looking
at.
That
they're,
like
wolf
hold
on,
if
that's
true,
then
I,
must
not.
B
I
must
not
be
like
a
cultural
fit
for
this
community,
because
I
don't
make
changes
that
much
in
fact,
I'm
not
allowed
to
make
changes
that
much
I'm
relegated
to
an
hour
or
two
every
other
weekend
or
every
other
month
to
make
changes.
So
there's
a
mismatch
here.
I
must
not
be
a
network
automation
candidate.
Yes,.
A
B
Reality,
that's
being
painted
for
me
inadvertently,
nobody's
explicitly
saying
this,
but
because
they're
presenting
that
that
initial
hello
world
example
that
places
certain
assumptions
on
what
use-cases
there's
this
cultural
mismatch.
And
that
pains
me
because
I
know
that
that
means
we're
turning
people
away
like
.
like
there
are
people
that
want
to
get
involved
in
this
stuff.
B
They
hear
about
a
network
automation
and
they
get
that
hello
world
example
and,
like
look
learning
all
of
this
doesn't
seem
worth
it
because
the
outcome
seems
to
be
based
on
people
who
make
a
ton
of
changes,
and
I
just
don't
what
that
means.
Is
I'm
gonna
go
back
to
what
I
know.
Yeah
I,
don't
like
that.
Yeah.
A
I
agree:
it's
not
just
a
network
automation
that
this
is
an
issue,
then
a
lot
of
tech
automation.
You
know,
there's
an
open
stack.
It's
for
instance,
there
was
not
a
lot
of
visibility
into
what's
going
on
with
some
of
the
components
and
people
would
say,
I'd
like
more
visibility,
I'd
like
to
get
status
I'd
like
to
know
what's
going
on,
you
know
when
I
go
to,
you
know,
create
this
project
or
something
and
it's
gonna
filter
down
into
a
bunch
of
elements
being
created
in
the
you
know.
A
You
don't
need
that
like
if
everything
is
just
configured
correctly,
the
first
time
everything
is
magic,
it
just
works
and
there's
and
I
it's
just
kind
of
shocking
to
me
like,
because
that's
not
true
anywhere
else
in
the
world
and
there's
no
other
engineering
field.
Where
you
don't
care
about
the
state
of
the
system,
because
you
know
you
type,
you
press
the
right
sequence
of
buttons.
That's
all
you
need
to
know
you
know
and
they
pass
the
semantics
check.
That's
exactly
the
opposite
of
what
network
engineers
need,
and
we
know
that
this
is
true.
A
You
can
type
all
kinds
of
commands
that
are
semantically
correct
and
will
will
will
be
taken
by
a
router
or
switch
and
will
had
not
have
the
effect
you
want.
So
you
know
visibility
and
you
know
the
ability
to
sort
of
model
what's
going
on
in
the
network.
Is
it?
You
know
it
kind
of
belies
this
traditional
way
of
thinking
about
automation,
but
for
some
reason
it's
infected
a
lot
of
people's
minds.
A
B
Yeah
so
yeah
I
mean
I,
think
you
know
bringing
it
back
to
interrupt.
The
the
I
should
say:
I
should
say
the
the
the
the
automation
workshop
that
took
place
on
Monday
Tuesday.
Isn't
it's
not
built
into
inter
up
it's
not
like
something?
That's
a
given.
It's
kind
of
a
yearly
thing
where
they
evaluate
like
who
gets
involved
that
people
obviously
have
posed
to
be
involved.
Sure
my
understanding
was
that
none
of
that
happened
last
year.
B
I
didn't
go
last
year
or
the
first
time,
I
hadn't
gone
since
I
started,
going
I
will
say
and
I
also
don't
want
this
to
come
across
as
a
shame,
because
it's
not
that's
not
my
intent
interrupts
seems
that
the
attendance
at
Interop
has
seemed
to
decline
pretty
rapidly
over
the
past
few
years.
I
don't
I
I
know
that
they-
and
this
is
all
speculation.
I
I
hear
certain
things
about
their
they're,
trying
to
pivot
to
not
a
totally
different
audience,
but
a
slightly
more
like
leadership
kind
of
style.
B
If
you
go
to
the
right
ones
anyway,
but
if
you
still
want
to,
if
you
still
want
to
go
to
that,
like
big
conference
kind
of
thing
or
like,
if
you
feel
super
compelled
to
spend
all
your
time
in
Las
Vegas,
then
you
know
interrupts
great.
It's
the
only
multi
vendor
conference
of
its
size
and
I,
don't
mean
to
say
that
it's
small,
it's
certainly
not
it's
just
a
little
smaller
than
I.
Then
in
the
past
few
years,
probably
a
byproduct
of
the
sort
of
audience
shifts
that
they're
looking
for
is
my
expectation.
B
I
will
also
say,
don't
assume
you're
gonna
get
a
network
Automation
summit
every
year,
because
you
probably
won't
I
would
look
ahead
of
time.
If
you,
if
that's
what
you're
interested
in,
if
you,
if
you're
looking
to
go
to
Interop,
to
learn,
Network
automation,
look
look
on
on
the
schedule
for
Monday
and
Tuesday.
B
If
there's
a
company
like
Network
to
code,
you
know,
maybe
packet
pushers
will
go
back
at
some
point.
I,
don't
think
they
have
plans
to
do
anything
in
the
future,
but
I
you
know
I'm,
obviously
speculating
there.
You'd
have
to
ask
them
Mike.
The
point
I'm
trying
to
convey
is
its
kind
of
it.
Just
depends
on
the
year
depends
on
what
people
are
doing.
Interrupts
itself
doesn't
have
like
a
network
automation
track.
It's
all
about
people
who
you
know,
like
you
know,
network
to
code,
for
instance
that
they're
like
well.
B
We
want
to
sponsor
a
workshop
focused
on
network
automation.
Then
awesome
go
to
that
cuz.
It
was
good.
It
was
you
know
a
lot
like
I
said
a
lot
of
people
talking
about
a
lot
of
different
things.
The
hallway
track,
as
always,
is
usually
pretty
good
there.
So
that's.
If
that's
your
interest
just
be
aware
that
it's
not
a
given
that
you'll
have
the
same
experience
check
first
and
if
somebody
is
sponsoring
something
like
what
I,
what
I
went
to
then
yeah
give
it
a
shot.
B
But
it's
you
know
it's:
it's
sort
of
a
it's
sort
of
like
co-resident
within
or
off.
It's
not
necessarily
built-in
to
interrupt
there.
No
there's
not
really
like
a
network
Automation
track
and
actually
there's
not
a.
This
is
another
weave
thing.
Given
that
I
know
interrupts
history,
there's
not
even
really
a
networking
track
either
they
kind
of
got
rid
of
that
so
they've
been
making
some
pivots.
Lately,
it's
very
different
for
what
it
used
to
be.
If
you've
gone
in
around
before
then
you'll
probably
notice
the
same
differences
that
I've
noticed,
but.
B
I
would
say
it's
it's
it's
worth
it
if
you're,
if
you're,
if
you're,
if
you're
looking
to
meet
with
other
people
that
are
that
are
involved
with
network
automation,
it's
still
one
of
those
things
again.
As
long
as
somebody
is
sponsoring
the
track
and
it
exists,
then
it
usually
attracts
you
know
a
lot
of
people
in
the
community
and
it'll
it'll
be
good,
but
just
don't
expect
it.
You
know,
look,
do
your
research
ahead
of
time
and
see
what's
there
and
sign
up
if
it's
there,
if
not,
you
know
waiting
to
the
next
year.
A
B
B
A
B
A
B
B
B
So
pretty
excited
about
that
and,
of
course,
because
of
the
broader
scope,
I'm
hoping
attendance
will
be,
you
know
pretty
pretty
good
on
those
I
will
be
relying
heavily
on
the
other
people
in
the
to
help
organize
that,
because
right
now,
I'm
pretty
slammed,
but
hopefully
soon
that
will
manifest
itself.
The
other
thing
I
mentioned
done.
You
mentioned
the
Community
Planning
meeting
or
we
are
we
doing
that
weekly
or
every
other
week.
I
can't
remember
it's.
A
A
B
B
Open
office
hours
for
people
that
are
wanting
develop
lesson
I,
don't
know
that
we
like
weekly,
would
probably
be
too
much,
but
maybe
like
every
other
week
or
pretty
quick,
maybe
like
a
long
period
of
time,
every
meal
once
a
month
or
maybe
a
shorter
period
of
time.
Every
two
weeks,
we'll
figure
that
out.
Okay,
basically.
A
B
Office
hours
to
just
help,
people
like
with
no
agenda
just
come
in
and
if
you
have
questions
with
your
lesson,
you
know
join
the
Xoom
call
we'll
throw
a
zoom
meeting
or
something
like
that.
You
join
or
leave
as
you
want
and-
and
you
know,
Todd
and
I
will
be
there
too,
or
one
of
us
will
be
there
to
help
to
help
get
past.
Like
certain
hurdles
in
the
in
the
lesson
building
experience
you
know,
sometimes
people
are
building
lessons
and
they're.
B
Just
like
you
know,
cranking
out,
like
the
markdown
content
that
stuff's
pretty
easy,
then
they
run
into
a
bottle
and
they
run
into
some
sort
of
a
barrier,
and
you
know
if
you
just
need
help
getting
past
it.
Sometimes
in
person
works
pretty
well.
So
I
was
thinking
about
that.
Maybe
we
should
maybe
we
should
do
like
an
open
office
hours
kind
of
thing
to
just
to
help
people
get
past.
These
hurdles,
yeah.
A
I
think
we
should
do
it
and
we
should
in
fact
solicit
help
from
the
community
to
conduct
at,
for
instance,
I
think
I'm
gonna
reach
out
to
Brian
Linkletter.
He
wrote
this
really
great
blog
in
fact
about
how
to
how
to
create
lessons
he
just
published
it
I
think
yesterday
or
the
day
before
and
when
I
met.
Can
you
pull
that
up?
I
can't
so.
B
Yeah
so
Brian's
actually
written
about
NRI
lives
before
if
he's
pulled
down,
actually
you
can
find
the
M,
or
rather,
if
you
go
to
you,
go
to
his
I
mean
pay.
You
can
see
he
wrote
before
install
the
how
to
install
it
effectively
using
self-medicate,
but
he
wrote
yesterday
a
post
on
creating
lessons
which
is
awesome
and
he
even
talks
about
like
some
of
the
details.
B
I'm,
like
you
know
where
how
the
lesson
directories
structured
things
like
that,
he
also
he's
commented
on
some
of
the
issues
that
pretty
this
is
the
to
the
lesson
definition
which
I'll
probably
go
over
in
much
more
detail
next
week
once
it's
finished,
but
he
does
give
a
nice
warning
here:
warning
fast-moving
project.
It's
totally
true.
Yeah.
A
We
do
have
some
really
exciting
changes
happening
to
the
lesson.
Definition
that
opened
up
some
interesting
capabilities,
so
please
tune
in
next
week
for
sure
to
hear
about
that,
and
that
and
a
lot
of
it
is
driven
by
feedback.
We
got
from
community
members,
so
I
think
this
is
gonna,
be
it's
gonna,
be
a
fun
stream
and
and
I
can't
wait
for
these
changes
to
take
effect.
It's
gonna
open
up.
You
know
a
lot
of
possibilities
for
what
we
can
build
for
lessons.
A
B
A
Link2Sd
beside
he
now
has
a
couple:
few
posts
about
enemy
labs
up.
There
are
high
quality
posts
and
if
you
want
to
learn
about
how
to
contribute,
how
do
how
to
set
up
the
in
development
environment,
then
you
know:
go
there
and
and
Riyaz
blog
post,
because
they're
good
they're,
accurate
until
until
the
next
release.
A
All
right,
well,
we've
been
going
about
45
minutes,
so
I
think
we're
going
to
first
put
it
others
for
people
watching
this
time
as
many
as
usual.
But
if
any
of
them
have
any
questions,
please
feel
free
to
ask
in
the
chat
I'll
give
you
a
couple
minutes.
I
will
say
again:
please!
Please
join
the
community
stand-up
meeting
next
next
Tuesday
at
8
a.m.
the
details
on
how
to
join
that
are
in
the
RNA
in
a
forum
post
on
community
dot,
network,
reliability,
engineering,
it's
a
it's
a
it's
the
banner
post.
A
B
B
A
And
yeah
and
and
again
join
us
next
week
to
hear
about
the
changes
that
are
going
to
be
happening
so
but
there's
you
know,
we
interact
with
community
a
lot.
There's
things
that
we
you
know
talk
about
when
and
there's
me
any
major
issues
get
resolved.
You
know
that
kind
of
thing
we
talk
about
it,
so
you
know
you
get
a
lot
more
detailed
sort
of
view
of
what's
going
on
all
the
time
on
those
and
all
those
social
media
places
yeah.
So
so
please
join
there's.