►
Description
We talked to Jennifer Hancock about how the ideas in A Thousand Brains helped her better understand her area of expertise on behavioral modification. We covered a variety of topics such as operant conditioning, her experience with dolphin training, and how we can draw parallels between the Thousand Brains Theory and how we shape behaviors.
The Bully Vaccine: https://humanistlearning.com/the-bully-vaccine-book/
Learn more about Jennifer’s work here: https://humanistlearning.com/jennifer-hancock/
Bio:
Jennifer Hancock is the founder and owner of Humanist Learning Systems and the author of several best-selling books. She is also a top speaker and writer of humanistic management. She currently serves on the board of the USA chapter of the International Humanist Management Association.
- - -
The 'Conversations on A Thousand Brains' video series aims to extend the meaningful dialogues that the book, A Thousand Brains by Jeff Hawkins, has started. We invite leading intellectuals and experts in various fields to discuss the impacts and implications of Jeff's novel framework of intelligence - the Thousand Brains Theory.
Visit http://AThousandBrains.com for more information.
A
Hi
everyone
today
we're
going
to
have
a
conversation
on
a
thousand
brains
with
a
special
guest,
jennifer
hancock,
so
jennifer.
Thank
you
for
joining
us
today.
I
want
to
do
a
quick
introduction
for
our
audience.
So
jennifer
is
the
founder
and
owner
of
humanist
learning
systems
and
the
author
of
more
than
10
books
on
applied
humanism,
she's
also
a
top
speaker
and
writer
in
the
world
of
humanistic
management,
and
she
has
quite
an
impressive
and
varied
background,
both
in
the
for-profit
and
non-profit
world.
A
She
currently
serves
on
the
board
of
the
usa,
chapter
of
the
international
humanistic
management
association
and
jennifer
thanks
for
for
spending
time
with
us
today
in
this
conversation
series,
so
I
want
to
start
by
asking
you
to
explain
your
field
a
little
bit
more.
I
believe
you
described
it
as
having
a
background
in
behavioral
modification.
So
can
can
you
explain
what
that
means
and
what
it
is.
You
do.
First.
B
I
apply
this
very
particular
skill,
which
is
extinguishing
a
behavior
to
the
problem
of
bullying
and
harassment.
So
I
have
a
mission
and
that
mission
is
to
end
bullying
and
harassment,
and
we
can
do
that.
We
know
how
to
do
it
using
science
and
that's
what
I
do.
I
teach
people
how
to
stop
harassment
using
behavioral
science
very
interesting.
A
B
C
B
A
A
Part
three
really
focused
on
the
future
of
humanity,
and
I
remember
you
said
you
know
it
was
really
part
one
that
struck
you
and
and
tell
me
if
I'm,
if
I'm
paraphrasing
too
much,
but
you
had
said
when
you
were
reading
you
kept
saying
this
explains
so
much
this
explains.
So
much
can
you
can
you
dig
a
little
bit
more
into
that.
B
If
you're
trying
to
shape
your
behavior,
you
have
to
expose
the
animal
to
it
and
reward
them
periodically
enough
to
to
get
the
behavior
established
and
then
once
it's
established,
it's
established
and
then
unlearning
that
behavioral
pattern
is
its
own
problem.
It's
like
the
hardest
thing
to
do
because
you've
got
this
established
pattern,
and
so,
when
I
think
about
how
behaviors
are
shaped
and
become
learned
and
become
established,
and
then
I
think
about
how
we
unlearn
behaviors
the
I
now
have
because
of
jeff's
book.
B
I
now
have
a
visual
idea
of
what's
happening
in
the
brain
that
makes
unlearning
so
darn
hard
right.
You've
got
all
these
little
neurons
and
you
know
these
cortical
columns
and
they're
all
doing
pattern,
recognition
and
they're
they're
firing.
They
get
really
excited
when
they
recognize
the
pattern
right,
and
so
they
want
to
recognize
like
I'm
going
to
be
anthropomorphised.
B
B
C
C
B
C
And
and
it's
very
interesting
how
it
happens,
and
but
one
of
those
things
is
just
behaviors,
like
you
said,
like
you
know,
as
you
point
out,
I
I,
as
a
casual
observer
notice
that
you
know
you
do
these
things
all
day
long,
but
they
so
often
do
mechanically.
You
know
you
just
do
you
know.
My
favorite
example
is
like
why
you're
drawing
yourself
over
the
towel?
If
you
get
a
shower,
like
you,
think,
you're
thinking
about
it,
no
you're,
not
thinking
about
all
you,
you
do
the
same
patch.
You
move
around.
C
B
Right
and
technically
you
can't
right
from
a
very
technical
perspective.
You
can't,
but
you
can
reduce
the
frequency
of
that
behavior
occurring
despite
the
stimulus
for
it
all
right.
So
let
me
kind
of
tell
you
I
give
you
an
example
of
this:
let's
imagine
you
have
a
lab
rat
in
a
box
and
in
that
box
is
a
lever
and
when
it
pushes
the
lever,
it
gets
its
favorite
treat
whatever
that
treat
is
and
then
one
day
that
lever
it
presses
the
lover
and
absolutely
nothing
happens.
B
No
treat
comes
out.
What
is
that
rat
gonna
do
right.
Well,
the
rat's
gonna
press
that
lever
again
and
again
and
try
and
get
that
reward
to
come
out
because
it's
always
worked
in
the
past
right.
So
it's
got
this
pattern
of
behavior
and
and
and
just
as
you
said,
if
something
doesn't
fit
the
pattern,
what
do
the
neurons
do
it.
C
B
C
B
B
The
animal
goes
wait.
I
didn't
get
my
reward
and
it
tries
again
to
get
its
reward
and
eventually,
if
it
doesn't
get
its
reward
after
escalating
its
behavior
it'll,
give
up
and
again
this
is
an
air
quote:
give
up
right,
it'll,
stop
pressing
the
lever.
Now
this
giving
up
happens
more
quickly
if
it
has
another
way
to
get
its
reward.
B
So
if
you
put
another
lever
beside
it
and
that
lever
started
working,
it
would
move
to
that
other
lever
quickly
and
give
up
the
old
lever,
but
the
reality
is
it
never
gives
up
the
old
lever.
It
just
uses
it
less
frequency
right.
So,
every
once
in
a
while,
you've
got
this
rat
in
this
cage.
It's
now
learned.
Nothing
comes
out
of
this
regard.
I
could
press
this
lever
all
day
and.
B
C
C
B
Right,
well
I
mean
that's
the
thing
though.
Technically
behavioral
extinction
is
from
a
practical
standpoint
impossible.
What
you
can
do
is
reduce
it
and
redirect
it
right
if
you
have
a
rat
in
a
cage
and
it's
food
lover
stops
working,
but
another
food
lover
does
work.
It's
going
to
make
that
switch
more
quickly
and
it's
going
to
use
that
new
lever
almost
exclusively
and
only
occasionally
go
back
to
that.
First,
you
give.
B
C
Yeah,
well,
that's
interesting,
yeah!
Well,
you
you
can't,
but
it's
interesting
because
again
we
never
in
our
work.
We
never
think
about
actively
removing
memories.
You
know
we
think
about
synapses
as
memory
right
type
of
memory,
and
you
know
we
know
that
synaptic
synapses
disappear
often
they
think
they
don't
last
forever.
So
you
do.
You
do
forget
things
and-
and
we
know,
there's
lots
of
active
processes
for
forming
them
and
for
how
permanent
they
will
be
right
based
on
rewards,
but
it's
essentially
never
really
thought
about
how
you
know.
C
C
A
C
Is
you
know
people
think
of?
Oh
there's
like
a
strength
to
this
like
there's
like?
Oh,
it's
a
high
strength,
a
low
strength,
it's
more
like
a
permanence
and
it's
more
like
how
long
will
this
thing
last
and
when
you
have
a
really
stout
synapses,
you
know
they
look
like
big
hefty
little
stubs.
They
can
last
a
long
long
time
and
many
many
synapses
are
these
little
squiggly
things
that
don't
look
very
strong
at
all
and
they
can
go
away
right
away.
You
know
you
can
forget.
C
You
know
you
forget
what
you
had
for
breakfast
yesterday.
You
know
it's
24
hours
later
I
don't
know
what
did
I
do,
but
but
some
so
but
again
active
processes,
because
some
things
can
if
they
were
rewarded,
then
they
could
be
very
long-lasting.
You
know
the
level
with
the
rat
or
maybe
the
some
undesirable.
B
And
that's
exactly
what
we
see
right,
the
longer
something
is
established,
the
harder
it
is
to
get
rid
of
the
behavior
yeah,
this
the
quicker
it
was
learned
and
the
sooner
and
it
stops
working
or
a
negative
reinforcement
is
applied.
Early
on,
like
I
had
a
hot
dog
once
when
I
was
seven
and
I
threw
up,
I
have
never
had
hot
dogs
since
because
I
associate
it
with
vomit
right.
A
C
A
B
A
B
B
C
Yeah
yeah:
what
do
you
think
you
know
one
thing
again:
I've?
Never
we!
We
never
think
about
this
idea
of
trying
to
forget
things
actively.
You
know
the
thousand
brain
theory
posits
that
you
have
these
thousands
of
cortical
columns
or
all
learning
models.
So
there's
many
models
right
of
anything
you're
doing
it's
not
one
place.
So
in
some
sense
you
have
to
try
to
forget
all
of
them.
Yeah.
C
You
just
cut
the
the
connections
between
the
left
side
of
the
brain
and
the
right
side
of
the
brain,
and
they
people
seem
pretty
normal
at
first
until
you
realize
they
actually
have
two
brains,
one
one
of
them
can
talk
to
you
because
that's
the
left
side
of
your
head
and
the
other
one
can't,
but
it's
thinking
and
doing
stuff
on
its
own
anyway,
and
so
I
just
think
this
idea,
when
you're
trying
to
change
behaviors
of
people
you're
trying
to
change
the
behavior
of
something
that's
highly
distributed
right
well.
In
many.
C
Many
many
different
models
and
even
those
models
different
exist
in
different
modalities.
Like
you
have
models
of
things
in
the
visual
area
models,
you
know
again,
I
think,
in
the
book.
I
use
the
example
of
coffee
cup
right
right.
You
have
models
of
the
coffee
cup
that
are
visual
models
and
auditory
models
and
somatosensory
or
touch
models.
B
C
C
B
C
B
B
C
C
C
A
A
B
B
What
matters
is
that
it's
a
stimulus
and
we're
going
to
moderate
the
stimulus
and
either
through
some
sort
of
command,
and
then
we
also
have
something
called
a
delta,
which
is
another
type
of
stimulus
we
use
and
then
there's
the
reinforcements
and
rewards
and
then
there's
the
the
the
interesting
part
is
the
schedule
of
those
rewards.
So
yeah.
You
know.
A
A
B
C
Lot
of
research
on,
for
example,
dopamine
release
and
how
it
happens,
and
things
like
that,
but
you
know
you
know.
The
theory
that
we
laid
out
is
one
of
how
information
is
stored
in
the
brain
and
and
it's
in
this
distributed
and
there's
150
000
columns
each
one
is
a
sensory
motor
system
and
they
make
these
predictive
models
using
reference
frames.
So
I'm
just
wondering
if
there
are
other
aspects
of
the
theory
that
sort
of
you
know
made
me.
I
don't
know.
B
B
And
I
can,
I
can
kind
of
mechanically
mechanically
imagine
the
pattern
recognition
happening
and
the
the
stimulus
going
in
and
then
a
bunch
of
different
things
happening
simultaneously
to
create
that
pattern,
recognition
and
and
escalated
up
the
chain
to
recognition
and
awareness
right
and
also
what
happens
when
a
pattern
is
not
recognized.
So.
C
That's
something
that
jumped
out
at
you,
yeah
yeah
and
in
the
we
know
in
neuroscience.
We
know
that
when
unusual,
unexpected
input
occurs,
there's
a
lot
of
activity
right
there
right
it's,
because
we
and
we
propose
mechanisms
for
that.
Why
that
occurs
exactly
in
detail.
But
the
neurons
are
trying
to
make
these
predictions
and
well
they
are
making
these
predictions
and
and
when
the
predictions
are
inaccurate,
then
what
happens
is
normally
only
the
predicted
neurons
get
active.
C
B
Yeah,
so
one
of
the
one
of
the
stimulus
we
use
in
training
is
something
called
a
delta
and
it's
like
usually
an
auditory
or
visual
stimulation,
but
almost
always
auditory
depending
on
the
animal
right.
If
it
doesn't,
the
animal
doesn't
have
ears,
you
would
use
some
other
stimulus
right,
but
it's
usually
like.
If
I
do
this
with
my
kid,
it's
a
sound
like
right,
so
my
kid's
doing
something
and
in
your
like
imagine
its
brain,
going
happily
going
ooh
everything.
I
recognize
everything.
This
is
all
good
right
and
the
kid
goes.
B
B
To
turn
and
look
at
my
mom,
because
that
was
an
unexpected
noise
for
mom
and
if
you
think
back
to
I
don't
you
have
kids
right,
yeah,
okay,
so
you
think
back
when
they
were
little
and
you
first
started
using
no
one.
They
would
look
at
you
right
how
you
respond
to
how
they
look
at
you
determines
what
they
associate
with
that
sound
right
and.
B
C
You
you
know,
one
of
the
big
part
part
of
the
book,
and
the
theory
is,
is
this
idea
of
reference,
so
knowledge
is
stored
in
literally
these,
you
can
think
of
as
three-dimensional
structures,
but
they're,
not
three-dimensional
they're
in
neurons
and
and
it's
a
ways
for
us
to
understand
how
how
we
access
knowledge.
You
know
thinking
is
walking
through
these
these
locations
and
these
reference
frames,
and
does
any
of
that
I
mean.
Does
that
kind
of
level
of
detail
reach
you
or
is
it
more
like
you
know?
Well,
you.
B
C
B
C
B
They
just
know,
if
I
do
this,
they
don't
even
know.
If
I
do
this,
this
is
going
to
happen.
The
brain
knows,
if
I
do
this,
this
will
happen
and
they're
they're,
responding
to
the
stimulus
and
the
response
patterns
that
they
learn
and
they
might
not
even
be
aware
or
conscious
that
their
behavior
is
being
shaped
by
these
patterns
that
were
learned
in
the
brain.
At
some
point,.
B
C
It
does
a
little
bit
of
surprise
for
us
too,
in
our
research.
This
I
mean
we've
always
known
that
certain
parts
of
certain
parts
of
the
brain
are
certainly
not
accessible
to
consciousness
and
or
recall,
or
language,
and
but
in
the
neural
cortex
we
you
would
assume
that
more
of
it
was
not
all.
But
one
of
the
things
you
know
we
now
understand
is
that
the
vast
majority
of
the
neural
tissue,
the
activities,
have
no
way
of
reaching
anywhere
else.
C
Most
of
ninety
percent
of
what
goes
on
inside
of
each
quarterback
column,
it
really
is
not
accessible
to
anything
else
right,
so
you
know
I
I
don't.
I
mean
this
is
an
interesting
thing
just
to
think
about,
but
I
guess
from
up
from
a
behavioralist
like
yourself
that
might
present
particular
challenges.
It.
B
Really
doesn't
because
we're
not.
This
is
one
of
those
things
that
explained
a
lot
right.
A
behavioralist
is
not
necessarily.
I
don't
need
your
permission
to
behaviorally
condition
you
you
won't
necessarily
even
know,
I'm
doing
it
to
you
all
right.
I
could
do
it
anyways,
because
I'm
not
working
through
your
consciousness,
so.
B
B
Not
directed
right,
victor
frankel
once
said,
you
don't
have
to
let
your
conditions
condition
you,
and
so
this
is
one
of
those
things
that,
like
the
one
of
the
reasons
why
I
think
how
we
learn
and
unlearn
should
be
basic
knowledge,
and
it
ties
into
why
you
think
the
brain
should
be
basic
knowledge.
I
think,
is
because
how
this
gets,
how
you
learn
and
how
you
unlearn
and
how
behaviors
become
established,
including
thought
patterns,
can
be
manipulated
for.
C
B
C
B
This
with,
like
people
coming
out
of
cults,
what
what
got
people
to
leave
a
cult
is
a
pattern.
Failure
right
the
predictions,
don't
come
true
enough
times
that
people
start
to
think
something's
wrong
or
you
teach
people
in
a
cult
about
how
to
recognize
cult
indoctrination
techniques
separate
from
what
they're
experiencing,
but
just
in
general,
they'll
try
to
control
whatever
you
know.
Whatever
the
technique
is
you
teach
them
that,
then
these
tools
for
an
individual
become
self-defense.
B
C
B
C
It's
interesting
because
at
the
I
did
bring
this
topic
up
to
the
very
end
of
the
book,
which
is
sort
of
this.
A
call
one
of
the
call
to
actions
was
the
idea
that
we
should.
You
know
everybody
should
know
how
their
brain
works
right,
right
and
and
in
the
same
way,
I
kept
it
pretty
dry
in
the
same
way.
Everyone
knows
how
dna
works.
There's
nothing
political
about
that
right.
C
You
know
not
only
what
how
knowledge
is
represented
in
their
head
and
how
they
know
things,
but
how
they
could
get
it
wrong
right,
sorry
that
we
are
all
susceptible
to
this,
but
what
did
it
never
occurred
to
me
that
your
field
actually
could
be
part
of
that
too?
That
is,
you
know,
these
techniques
that
you
use
to
be
manipulated
or
people
used
to
be
manipulated.
Whatever
these
techniques
manipulates
a
bad
word,
because
it
could
be
good
or
bad.
It's
just.
C
Yeah
yeah
right
yeah.
It
is
an
accurate
it's
an
accurate
word,
but
it's
it
has
these
connotations
but
but
interesting,
I
just
thought
you
know
thinking
about
that
as
sort
of
an
adjunct.
I've
already
had
some
people
write
to
me.
Saying:
hey
that'd,
be
great
I'd
like
to
think
about
teaching
this
stuff,
you
know
and
and
the
idea
that
you
might
have
like
a
chapter
on
the
techniques
that
people
use
to
do
these.
Just
your
fields
essentially
right.
C
C
B
To
learn
how
to
stop
like
people
being
unpleasant
to
you
is
something
you
want
to
learn
how
to
stop,
especially
if
they're
habitually
unpleasant
to
you
right
and
almost
everybody
has
someone
in
their
life
who
has
done
been
unpleasant
to
them
in
past.
So
I'm
teaching
people
the
science
to
help
them
with
a
problem
that
they
have
and
the
great
thing
about
it
is
in
order
to
do
it.
A
B
They're
doing,
but
that's
why
we
call
it
shaping
behavior
and
not
manipulating
behavior,
because
what
we're
doing
ultimately,
the
animal
has
the
ability
to
resist,
conditioning
right,
the
how
brains,
learn
and
how
we
learn
and
how
we
unlearn
it's
there's
a
feedback
loop
right.
We
might
not
be
conscious
of
everything
our
brain
is
doing,
but
we
can
change.
We
can
consciously
change
inputs
if
we
want
as
humans.
Let.
C
Me
ask
you
this
question.
Okay,
if
I
could
change
the
topic
a
little
bit,
if
you
had
a
request
from
neuroscience,
like
theoretical
neuroscience,
like
people
like
myself,
that
would
help
your
field.
Is
there
something
you'd
say
you
know,
I'd
really
like
to
know
x
about
the
brain
I
mean
it's
got
to
be
it
might
in
it.
For
me,
it
has
to
be
pretty
detailed.
It
has
to
be
down
like
okay,
you
know
neural
tissue
type
of
stuff.
You
know.
B
Yeah,
no,
I
you
know,
like
I
said
you
know,
I
read
the
book
and
thank
you
for
getting
me
a
copy
of
it
and
a
lot
of
what
I
thought
was
in
the
first
section
was:
oh,
this
explains
so
much
because
my
field
is
so
well
studied
right.
We
have
70
years
of
research
on
behavioral,
shaping
and
behavioral
extinction
and
with
extinction
in
particular.
There
are
no
counter
examples
to
how
the
process
works
right,
like.
C
B
B
It
actually
makes
the
behavior
what's
happening
is
like
if
I
have
a
bully-
and
I
don't
reward
them
the
way
they
want,
and
I
give
them
a
neutral
response
right.
They
will
try
harder
to
get
me
to
fit
their
pattern
like
to
go
back
to
the
pattern
they
want
and
if
I
keep
not
giving
them
that
pattern
eventually,
they'll
look
for
it
elsewhere,
because
humans
are
free
range
animals
and
they
will
get
that
reward
elsewhere
and
no
longer
look
to
me
for
it
right.
B
B
C
C
It
goes
whoa,
you
know
it's
just
again
on
the
same
topic
here.
There's
so
many
things
you
and
I
and
everyone
knows
that
we
haven't.
We
haven't
thought
about
in
years
I
could
say,
like
oh
go
to
the
house,
you
grew
up
in
now
go
into
the
basement.
Go
in
the
back
left
corner.
What
was
there
like?
You
know,
you
haven't
thought
about
that.
You
know
and
it
was.
C
I
mean
this
gets
to
one
of
the
things
you
know
the
challenge
for
us.
One
of
the
challenges
for
us
is
we.
You
know
we
work
at
these
very,
very
detailed
mechanistic
levels
in
the
brain
and
and
you
try
to
you-
want
to
make
it
relevant
for
the
world
right.
You
want
to
make
it
relevant
for
people,
so
I
I've
always.
My
attitude
has
been.
You
know,
start
with
the
fundamentals.
You
lay
down
what
fundamentals?
What
is
a
prediction?
What
is
memory,
how
do
we
structure
information
in
the
brain
and
then
you
can
move?
C
C
So
so
you
know,
but
but
we've
we're
still
deep
down
in
the
weeds
in
our
work.
That's
that's.
We
have
more
to
do
so.
It's
interesting
conversation
with
you
because,
or
people
like
you
because,
like
how
do
we?
How
do
we
bridge
the
gap
between
someone
who's
really
having
practical
value
in
right
to
achieving
something
and
can
our
work
our
work
help?
It's
helped.
It's
usually
explained
how
it
helps
so
far.
C
C
C
B
B
C
B
B
Stimulated
and
then
it
raises
up
enough
of
those
get
stimulated
in
the
right
pattern,
combination
and
it'll
trigger
things,
and
you
like
one
of
the
things
that's
like
so
free
will
right
from
a
philosophic
standpoint.
Free
will
is
a
very
difficult
concept.
It's
central
to
the
practice
of
humanism
right.
This
idea
that
we
can
choose
our
responses
is
really
important
to
the
idea
that
you
choose
good
responses.
However,
you
define
good
right.
B
If
you
don't
have
the
ability
to
choose
your
response,
then
the
whole
concept
of
free
will
is
irrelevant
and
the
choice
that
you're
going
to
make
is
irrelevant,
and
this
has
real
world
impacts
on
how
people
behave
and
they've
studied
this.
They
know.
If,
if
you
encourage
people
to
believe
in
free
will
they
will
make
better
decisions
than
people
you
encourage
to
believe
have
no.
C
C
C
C
I
think
I
think
you
pointed
out.
I
always
think
they
they
miss
the
other
side
of
it
right
and
the
other
side.
I
think
you
just
touched
on
it,
which
is
very
interesting
and
which
is
that,
although
we
don't
have
free
will
the
actions
of
others
can
impact,
how
what
we
end
up
doing
right
and
that's
not
that's
not
to
say
oh,
I
have
free
will
in
the
matter,
but
it
well,
it
does
say
is
that
the
actions
of
others
makes
a
difference
and,
and
so,
but.
B
B
We
know
this
is
doable.
This
is
that
there's
no
question:
it's
doable,
you
can
learn
thought
patterns,
you
can
unload
thought
patterns
and
I
think
that's
probably
the
mechanism,
that's
helping
create
what
little
control
we
actually
have.
I
like
jonathan,
how
jonathan
height
describes
this
whole
dichotomy
of
you've
got
this
rider
on
an
elephant
and
the
the
brain
is
this
elephant
right,
but
that
that
would
be
an
interesting
question
to
answers.
C
Well,
I
you
know
in
the
rest
of
the
neocortex
I
wrote
about
the
consciousness
in
the
book
too.
I
had
a
chapter
on
it
and-
and
you
know
I
I
find
it
not
mysterious
at
all,
but
anyway
I
I
what
I
want
to
know.
Is
you
give
a
dolphin
a
fish?
What
do
you
give
a
human
you
know?
Is
it
just
the
secondary
rewards,
or
do
you
actually
give
them
a
lollipop
for
a
kid
or
something
like
that?
Well,.
C
B
And
sometimes
the
secondary
reinforcements
can
become
primary
reinforcement.
So
let
me
give
you
an
example:
if
our
dolphins
were
sick
and
they
didn't
want
to
eat,
but
they
still
wanted
to
play,
they
would
pretend
to
take
the
fish
and
then
they
would
go
down
to
the
bottom
of
the
tank
and
drop
it
on
the
bottom
of
the
tank.
Where.
B
And
then
they
would
come
up
and
pretend
everything
was
okay
and
continue
to
play
with
us.
So
they
were,
they
knew
if
they
didn't
take
the
fish.
The
humans
would
respond
like
what's
wrong,
because
you
know
it's
like
any
animal
that
stops
eating.
You
worry
about
it
right,
but
our
dolphins
were
smart
enough
to
learn.
If
they
didn't
take
the
fish,
we
would
worry
and
we
would
stop
playing
with
them,
because
we
were
worried
and
they
wanted
to
keep
playing.
B
So
they
would
pretend
to
take
the
fish,
because
what
was
positive,
reinforcing
them
was
the
game
we
were
playing
in
the
relationship
we
were
building
with
them.
Rather
than
the
fish
the
fish
the
fish
becomes
like.
It's
not
even
a
reinforcement,
it's
just
something
they
eat
to
eat,
but
the
primary
reinforcement
is
the
relationship
got
it.
So
then
you
start
wondering
is
lying
really
lying
yeah.
B
C
B
C
B
Believe
it
or
not,
you
probably
already
know
a
lot
about
this.
What,
when
I
teach
my
stuff,
what
I'm
teaching
people
is,
what
the
science
tells
us
is
going
on
right.
So
there's
stimulus
response,
there's
three
types
of
responses:
there's
the
positive
meaning
the
animal
likes.
It
there's
the
negative
meaning
the
animal
didn't
like
it
and
there's
the
neutral,
which
is.
B
And
then
there's
the
reinforcement
schedules
that
are
it's
either
consistently
reinforced
or
is
variably
reinforced,
and
then,
when
you
understand
how
the
stimulus,
the
response,
the
the
type
of
response
and
the
reinforcement
schedules
work
together
to
shape
behaviors,
that's
when
you
can
start
using
it
and
mostly
what
people
use
it
for.
What
I
teach
people
to
use
it
for
is
to
use
it
defensively
right.
A
B
B
Stimulus
is
impacting
me
not
how
my
behavior
as
a
stimulus
is
impacting
someone
else
so
completing
that
circle
and
understanding
that
it
is
a
dance.
There's
stimuli,
yours,
your
stimulus,
triggers
a
response
in
you,
but
your
response
is
in
turn
a
stimulus
for
the
other
person,
and
it
just
goes
round
and
round
and
round
just
that
awareness
alone
helps
people
take
responsibility
for
their
side,
of
whatever
the
dance
is
mm-hmm.
C
B
This
is
where
I
laid
out
and,
like
I
said,
and
that's
the
defensive
part:
it's
not
that
you're
not
going
to
get
ex
experience
these
things.
But
how
do
you
choose
to
respond
so
that
you
choose
your
response
in
a
way
that
maximizes
a
positive
response
and
the
sort
of
response
you
want
to
get
in
the
other
person
all.
B
C
C
C
C
B
Try
to
consciously
choose
decide
what
you're
going
to
do
about
the
emotion
right.
It's
identifying
your
own
emotion
and
then
choosing
what
to
do
about
it,
but
that
you
know
I
got
to
be
honest.
It's
you
know.
It's
still
I've.
I
think
I've
gotten
my
interruption
down
to
maybe
three
seconds
right
where
the
emotional
shock
comes
in
and
I'm
like
what.
C
B
C
C
That's
right:
we
have
to
really
work
hard
to
get
it
to
be
like
a
human.
You
know,
I'm
not
good,
and
even
then
it
wouldn't
it
wouldn't
so.
But
anyway,
yes,
I
wasn't
really
suggesting,
but
I
did
I
was.
I
was
relating
to
what
you
said
about
that
three
seconds
thing,
because
I
think
I'm
not
in
a
close
to
three
seconds
right.
C
C
Cortex
your
cortex
has
to
be
modeling.
It
has
to
well
it's
model,
it
has
a
model
of
how
the
brain
works,
and
if
you
don't
have
that
model,
then
you
really,
I
think,
maybe
that's
the
summary
of
all
this
right
right
right.
The
book
is
this
thing:
here's
a
model
how
your
brain
works.
You
can
learn
that
model.
Your
your
cortex
can
now
understand
how
itself
works,
and
now
at
least
I'll,
let
you
be
introspective
about
it.