Open Feature Project, 28 Apr 2022

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From YouTube: OpenFeature Project Meeting - April 28, 2022

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Meeting notes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pp6t2giTcdEdVAri_2B1Z6Mv8mHhvtZT1AmkPV9K7xQ/edit?usp=sharing
OpenFeature website: https://open-feature.github.io/

A

A

I don't know if that's you or me, but I can't hear you it could easily be okay to you.

A

I can hear I can hear you, can you hear me.

B

Good morning slash afternoon, slash evening: hey pete, can you hear me okay,.

B

Can you hear me, okay, pete.

C

Oh yeah, I can sorry my my sound was down for a second now.

A

Okay, the confusion continues because.

B

I think david and.

A

I were in here, and one of us was having a sound issue and I we think it was him, but we weren't sure dora.

B

Good to see you again.

D

Good morning, good afternoon, everyone.

B

D

Hi yeah, I'm excited to be here, excited I'm curious.

A

Yeah I'll I'll wait till a few more people join and um now I'll do a quick introduction for you dora. I think you're probably going to be the only new person in the call today, but uh we'll see. Maybe I'm wrong with that.

E

Hello good morning.

F

Good morning, slash afternoon.

E

You're the exception here I think this morning- all right. Well, I guess we have one other. It's uh yeah.

G

A

G

H

A

um Okay, since we have a few people here now- oh still, some people joining spoke too soon or maybe we'll give it another minute.

I

G

Hello, just in case you want, if you're wondering why I can actually speak while I'm on youtube sitting. Next to my.

A

I was actually supposed to be in the same room but found out late last night that I have coveted, unfortunately, which is obviously a brand new responsibility.

G

It's it's a third meeting that happened to me in a row that you're like oh, let's all get together again, no we're actually not because at least half of the people are not coming.

E

All right, I think we can might kick it off now. um David, do you want to get it started or you want me to.

A

E

I start I'll.

A

Just do a quick introduction, because it's dora's first time here so um I know uh dora personally from cloudbees where she was a uh an engineering director director of engineering right. I think that was your title. Dora um and uh oleg is also familiar with dora. He also used to work at cloudy, so um she's joining us for the first time at our community meeting and really excited to have you here dora and hopefully you can uh be involved as we go forward.

D

I'm super excited.

A

J

D

J

Time here, oh sorry, dora I thought no.

D

J

I just want to say it's my first time here too at this group meeting, although I've met um mike and todd before.

A

J

A

Josh thanks for saying that yeah I neglected to recall that this is your first uh meeting attendance.

E

Yeah, so I guess we should maybe let them do a quick intro. If you don't mind um start with dora, then move to you, josh.

D

Yeah so uh so, as todd mentioned I used to be at uh at cloudbees, I worked on a number of products. There, a feature flag was the last one, and I've always been excited about feature flagging, and one of the pain point I always found is that it wasn't consistent. So I'm excited about this product. Portable being you know, portable between vendors and things like that, so I'm really excited about this open source project. um Now I work at wealthsimple. It's a fintech company canadians are familiar with it. Non-Canadians have probably never heard of it.

D

It's the robin hood of canada, although that doesn't necessarily uh put it in a good light where the better robin hood. This is recorded. Oh my god, I I tend to speak too much so I'll, stop here and uh yeah. It's.

G

Perfect thanks.

J

All right, um I'm josh sirota. uh I work in the office of the cto at split, and um I know uh pato has been here in these meetings before I work for him, he's our co-founder and cto. I um basically representing the company here today um and I'm would think this crowd knows, but just to be clear, we're one of those. You know one of those vendors who does things inconsistently, um but uh you know we're perfectly happy to help the world uh use feature flags in any way they can.

J

So uh you know it's a great great project, perfect yeah, welcome everyone.

I

Can I just uh tag myself on there as well, so this is my first first time joining us.

H

I

I'm dave I work at harness, also another one of those vendors. That's kind of providing an inconsistent feature, flag solutions, so um this seems really interesting because I guess we get a lot of customers. Who've implemented their own version of feature flagging and then we're trying to figure out how we can align with that. So it seems like this solves a big problem for everybody.

E

Perfect yeah welcome, dave and good afternoon ben, so you're still connecting well. I guess in the meantime yeah. I just said that he lost internet connection. Oh bomber.

G

E

Cool, I guess in the meantime uh david did you want to kind of kick it off and I think pete you have volunteered. If I don't uh perfect, thank you.

F

Yes, all right perfect, then thanks everyone for the introductions, um usually just to start it off. I put it out there that we're always looking for some wonderful volunteers for the next meeting to be ascribed. So, if you're interested, please feel free to put in your name at the top of the document, yeah and then the next meeting will be in two weeks so um other than that we have on the agenda. The first item is from alois, so that's the cncf submission so alois I'll hand it off to you.

G

Yeah, I just sneaked into the agenda uh because it's a very brief update and we will be down here quickly, so on the cncf submission, we are getting project number 20 in cnc, f, sandbox, which means for the last round of submissions. We, like didn't like make the cuts to being discussed, I reached out to dims and obviously they have a lot of uh backlog. I think it shouldn't really keep us back from continuing the work here.

G

um I think the only consequence is that by kubecon, obviously we won't be a sandbox project, because the next voting is in june, which is obviously after cubecon, and then I can also take down the next one. There is a link in there for the press release so nevertheless, we plan to do a press release about the consortium getting together and having this submitted to the.

D

G

um If you follow that link, I got some questions already why it is on on github why it is like uh private, as this is going to be a press release like we, don't want to kind of leak it out. So every one of you who requests access will obviously get access. We just wanted to be like publicly available on the internet. Before uh we do anything, the goal is to have the press release done by uh as part of kubecon um there's a rough draft in there.

G

This is just the dyna twist pr team throwing something uh together so that we have something to discuss.

D

And talk about.

G

uh Please reach out to your uh pr people and provide us your feedback. So the idea is to also meet with some press on site at cubecom and obviously also provide a quote.

G

If you want to or- and the idea is it's actually supposed to work, it's like it's like a common text that we all agree on when we talk about it and obviously then there's specific uh uh pieces on top that everybody can use like in their own press releases in their own blocks that they're using like, I think, harness uh cloud-based, whoever they have their own uh split another. You want to bring in like your own aspects and but we'll just like agree on their. Why open future exists?

G

uh What we're trying to build here and then the rest is pretty much free for everybody else out there. We are currently also working on getting a quote from red monks, getting an analyst code on that work that we're doing so.

G

There is an initial briefing schedule, I think next week or the week after, so you can share the details on the on slack later on, so which should be pretty well set and again, if you want to like be included in any other way or talk to some of the pr teams or want to jump on a meeting just drop in a note on what your movement should be and let us know again, if you click on the link, you will be asked to request access and you'll get it immediately.

G

That's pretty much everything from me, so it's just the organizational stuff.

F

Perfect thanks great, thank you all right, then uh mike you're next, up with, um I guess something related to kubecon.

E

Yeah, so I guess that ties in nicely um so for kubecon, I do have that form still there. So if you are going to be attending, um please make sure to fill out that form we'll be in touch with uh you know, meeting times it's actually proven to be rather challenging uh to find a meeting time. Unfortunately, so I'm still kind of working on that worst case.

E

We'll find you know some restaurant or nice area on the beach or something we'll figure out something so just definitely sign up for it um and also, uh let me know, like your t-shirt, size too, because we ordered some kind of fun uh open feature t-shirts so uh related to that. I think that was my next bullet point um was a logo. We've always had that little placeholder, you know quick two-second, google search light switch logo, um we're looking at maybe changing that one. um Let me check real quick.

E

uh I had a couple of ideas. This is what we ended up putting on our t-shirts, but that doesn't mean that has to become the official logo. I'll just give a quick, uh I thought the t-shirts which it.

G

E

Yeah, so it's not this one, I'm not sure my screen, yet um I may have to circle back to that, but basically just watch the github issue with the logo. I'm going to post a couple of ideas around that, but at a high level it was basically having a kind of like the ios toggle, and that was the oh and open feature so you're, probably having a little bit of trouble, visualizing that but I'll put that in the slack channel. So you can take a look at. It certainly provide feedback.

E

It doesn't mean that we have to go with this, but it was kind of a thing that we could use for for the t-shirts for the event, they're kind of fun, there's a dark mode in the light mode, so the toggle actually is like you know, change the op position and stuff. I think you'll like it. But uh you know.

E

Certainly, let me know what your opinions are on that uh last part to that is figuring out uh just a logo piece without the name, so we can have like kind of a fav icon for websites and stuff like that uh and so yeah I'll post, that in that github issue, make sure it's in the slack channel. Definitely let me know if you have any feedback ideas concerns.

D

E

Like that, but I'd like to get that finalized as quickly as possible, so we can go ahead and yeah there. We go perfect. Thank you! So that's the the white mode um and then, if you scroll down, there's the dark mode there, so you can see the toggle is kind of off so kind of a fun uh way of doing the two different variations. I thought and then for kubecon we'll try to have well we'll have both versions available. So hopefully we can have a combination of the two.

E

uh If nothing else, it's a good kind of discussion point for uh you know why we have the two different versions of the t-shirt and stuff like that. I think it really highlights. uh You know feature toggling at a very basic level, but kind of a fun way to do that.

E

Cool next topic.

F

Still yours on.

E

Branding, I think, yeah exactly it's basically the same thing so uh right now we basically have a placeholder website for the most part, um once we have kind of a logo defined it'd be really great to make sure that the site itself is kind of refreshed.

E

So if there's, if anyone has any interest in helping out with that, I certainly love some support there, especially when it comes to like copy look and feel anything like that. So uh if anyone has any interest, definitely reach out either in slack or directly to me, and we can try to figure that out last one was the hotel semantic convention. So I still have that issue open.

E

I started working on the pull request for the open, telemetry team. uh It's not too late to you know, update that issue with any ideas or concerns, but definitely take a look. If you have a chance. The important part here is once that's a spec in open telemetry. That means vendors that are spec compliant, can understand what a feature flag means and can visually represent that in traces. That would uh you know, work well in you know: diner trace datadog.

E

Any of the the other big uh open to limit or uh yeah, I guess open, telemetry, spec compliant vendors, which really, I think, unlocks a lot of interesting possibilities for feature flagging, especially at the enterprise level. Actually,.

G

Thinking about it, we even have the other way around, because we knew which attributes we could use.

E

G

On semantic conventions, uh what's like available in outer spans, for example,.

E

That's part of the contact story, so that's another way to look at it too. So um if you look at the the current open, telemetry semantic convention, there there's possibly ways of extracting that information to use for flag evaluation.

E

um We also- and I not to derail the conversation too much, but we did talk about this last community meeting about using open, open, telemetry baggage. I did run an experiment with that ran into a couple limitations there. It's basically limitations of the open, telemetry spec that makes it a bit challenging, but I did talk to one of the maintainers there. We do have a few ideas, so I don't really have a specific follow-up on that, but if we are able to figure that out, we could basically use baggage to send flag context.

E

Information across services, so pretty interesting, definitely powerful, but it was going to require a bit more work and- and maybe we could do a follow-up for that- if anyone's really interested in that topic, let's see and then I think that might be it for me,.

F

E

F

Unless you still have hotel semantic convention, but I guess this: was it yep yep? That's, it is.

E

There any problems with any topics.

E

G

So we open an issue with hotel just for disability, because currently the issue is only on open feature and not on the hotel.

E

uh I was planning on opening just a pull request and then referencing this ticket, but okay.

A

Whatever the recommendation.

E

F

Okay, uh then, the next item is from todd. uh This is on the on the specification so todd over to you.

A

Thanks david yeah, so this uh past week um we merged our first uh partial um draft of the spec um really happy with all the feedback we got on that. That was really really awesome. It was great to see so many people participate uh in that there's another pr open um for the provider, which is basically the layer of the specification that um does all the does.

A

All the mapping from um the open feature api that application authors see to the various you know, vendor back ends or whatever kind of flag control plane is, is being deployed. um I want to do a really quick uh tour of some of the spec um it won't. I won't go into too much detail.

A

It's really more around the tooling and some of the high-level philosophies um that we're leveraging here um we're pretty lucky, because we have uh um kind of an advisement from some of the hotel maintainers, so they were able to kind of help us hit the ground running and share some best practices and lessons learned from early in their specification development.

A

So I've tried to take those lessons learned and apply them early in our spec development. um I'll do a quick share session here um so yeah. Obviously, in the open future project, there's a spec repo, um since the most recent pr was merged. We have more of a specification here. A lot of these are stubbed, but the major addition was the evaluation api.

A

So this is basically what the application author, making the basic use of feature flags is going to see. This defines it all in a language agnostic way um and we have links to some of the stub sections, as well as the sections that are being developed now.

A

um So one of the things that we kind of started with from the beginning- and we took away from the hotel guys- um was kind of conforming to this w3c specification, the qa framework spec guidelines. So this is basically a spec for writing specs um a little bit meta, but it really just captures.

A

You know all the different things that are good to talk about in a spec things, like conformance clauses, um things like generating qa assertions um and then there's uh also references to rfc 2119, which basically defines keywords for use and requirements for normative sections. So it's very easy to see.

A

Looking at your spec, what is normative, what needs to be done? What can be done, optionally?

A

What should never be done that kind of stuff, um so we tried to kind of from the the ground from the from the get-go make our respect conform into these ideas, and we even have a little bit of tooling and that's all I'm going to demo here, but we have a little script that was donated by one of the uh open telemetry contributors that actually parses our spec and generates a set of qa assertions um conformant to the specifications I was just showing and that would allow you to generate a test suite, for instance, so we wrapped in a little make file but um I'll type make and show you what I mean so I type make, and what this basically does is a little wrapper and the script I'm mentioning and it outputs this json blob, and this json blob here is basically just a file that has um very terse, um very technical, normative sections right.

A

So a lot of the craft and background information and code samples are completely taken away, and you just have these um specified uh these. These rfc compliant specified uh normative sections, so you could use this kind of json blob to generate a um like a behavior driven test file, for instance, um or just you know, as you're implementing look at this and make sure that these specific normative sections um that your implementation complies to them. um We're gonna continue to develop some ci um processes around this file.

A

Do some validation on it generated automatically, but it is pretty cool to see our spec implement this kind of thing from from the get go.

A

um So if there's no questions about that I'll move on to the next section.

A

um Okay, so yeah, I already talked with the w3 cqa assertion. I guess the next thing to talk about was the um sdk, so I know we do have an sdk under development, a java sdk that justin's working on. I won't talk more about that because I think he's going to say something about it later, um but we are looking for interested parties to take over ownership of implementing sdks for various languages, so um I think we have the typescript javascript covered.

A

Obviously we have some participation already in the java sdk, but we're interested in.net we're interested in go we're probably interested in python. So if any of you are interested in taking responsibility for an sdk now that the spec is under active development, that might be something you want to kind of take ownership of as you go forward, and obviously you can continue to contribute to sdks that are under development, like the java sdk or the typescript javascript node sdk.

I

I got a quick question.

C

About about that, with the, um I guess, I'm wondering like with with typescript and javascript as one example and then java on the other. There's there's like the the sdk implementation and then there's like the client side versus server side. Piece like is the goal that that, for example, that java sdk would also be an android, would work in android or a server side context, or would the typescript work if I'm running it on in a react app and if I'm running it in a node app or do we want to split those?

C

I I know that from my like in, like from my informal analysis of me, looking in my brain and trying to remember uh just now, um I think most vendors have like tend to have a different sdk for like client-side stuff versus server-side stuff. I would assume that there's good reasons for.

K

C

K

So yeah I I just would guess that our client side sdk would be the same. The providers might be different, it would be my guess, but the.

J

Real reason why those things I think you see typically typically different between client side and server side from the vendors is, has.

D

J

To do with packaging and nothing to do with the kind of language the sdk interfaces themselves.

J

You know, for example, in if you're using javascript in node um on the server side, you would package up the whole sdks bundle as an npm module right, but if you're using it as from a browser, you wouldn't do that you'd make it available on a cdn via an http url right, and that also may imply some differences having to do with just kind of scoping and how things are exposed to the underlying app and all that. But I mean fundamentally the reason those things are that way is to do with packaging distribution.

A

Yeah I I would tend to agree with the idea that probably api and when I say the api I mean the zero dependency interfaces that are published and the basic the very basic um aspects of the flag evaluation run time. um I think those would probably be the same uh in the server and client and a lot of the underlying yeah providers.

A

um You know extra functionality, so things like things like potentially hooks and those types of things would probably exist in a different repo, more implementation, oriented um that that's how I see that working in my head, but this is all theory crafting at this point. I think that um we've for now deferred uh client-side, flag, evaluation to some extent, um we've mostly focused on the server.

A

Obviously, that's not gonna be the case for forever and we need to think about the client um but yeah. I do agree that there's a lot of the big difference is probably going to be in packaging um and probably more on the implementation side than the fundamentals of flag and evaluation that the application author is going to see. That's my high level response, but.

A

It's something we're aware of, and I don't think we've we've spent that much time out yet I think we're focusing for the time being mostly on server implementations.

I

um If, if we can help out with the sdks, what's the right way to go about it, do we put our name in the dock there or who would be good to reach out to get help to get started.

A

Yeah, so I would, I would start by um joining the slack channel, um so we can. We can help you to do that. um uh That's probably a good place to start, and then we can open up a repository and you know get started with some basic code. Everything at this point is experimental, so any any sdks would be considered experimental. The spec itself is experimental. So um at this point it's more or less just answering questions, um but there's obviously some infrastructural concerns around this too.

A

So that kind of brings me to my next point, which is um something that came up in discussions yesterday as well.

A

We may need hosting solutions for uh for sdk artifacts in various language languages, so I'm right now squatting on the uh the mpm um module name space, but we're going to need similar, uh similar spaces in various repositories across uh you know many languages, so you know for go. Go, I think, is um all the packages your name space based on the github repo, so that probably won't be a problem for us. Maven central requires uh proof of domain ownership. I believe so we own openfeature.dev.

A

We could publish it under that name. If we don't want to, we should probably secure a domain eventually for maven central um there's a there's, but there's you know, there's probably other examples too, I'm not too too familiar.

G

We talked about docker too yeah I mean, maybe just to quickly jump in you might. I think it might actually be good time right now, uh I'll go back to dave's question that we define at least interim leads for the various language uh sdks as we're going to move there.

G

I think the chassis also like started to write on the java piece according to the agenda, so I think people should state which sdks they want to like work on, because then we can distribute um all of this work across the team that not everything stays necessarily with utah. I think there's people.

A

Who can see how they're out there right yeah? I agree. I I agree with you. Maybe a good place to start is to open an issue. So if you're interested in taking a particular sdk open an issue um and then we can decide how to proceed from there so open an issue in the in the um in the project.

B

And uh we'll take it from there. I.

A

Think that's all I had.

K

F

K

Yeah, um so I've built a jenki java sdk. It currently supports booleans and strings.

K

It does not support provider context transformation because that seemed a little hard to figure out when I was working on it, um but I think it's good enough to get like a basic thing like proof of concept.

K

um That's what I'm going to try to do internally with our feature flagging tool, the I am running into a roadblock around packaging, which is I've only ever written java code in amazon and google, and they don't use any of the common packaging tools.

K

And so I don't actually know how to release things to maven central um maven central seems to only want release versions, and the thing that I would really like is snapshot versions which are like whatever is the latest thing that was inside github, which would be very useful for another stuff that we're doing um so. If anyone has java packaging experience, that would be hugely useful to me or even.

D

K

Know of someone that I can spend 15 minutes with that'd be really helpful.

L

I can work with you perfect.

H

um Yeah I mean it, it's pretty secure, um well, a lot more.

A

Thank you ben thank you I was I was only gonna mention um I did find uh there is the ossrh I'll put a link in chat, so this is, I believe, um a public open source uh uh repository that does support snapshots. um I think it's kind of like a free project that sona type pays for that's the impression I get at least yeah.

J

We use this at split ossrh, so that's awesome so.

A

So I my understanding with this is that um it applies all of the same checks and and rigor that maven central does, but a lot of snapshot builds, so you can kind of validate everything against this and then promote demand central, maybe a good perfect thanks josh for confirming that so yeah. This may be a good place to start with the java publishing.

K

uh There may be additional cia spam inside our slack channel. I don't know if we want to move that somewhere else, but um as.

D

I get packaging and pi.

K

Setup there's a lot of like commit something and see if ci works.

E

Yeah I mean that was kind of my concern. Actually initially, when we we added the app we may want to consider having like a open feature, dash, dev channel or something like that, or just only doing like very specific, like pull requests or in very specific repositories or something like that, make the most sense to me. um It does.

B

Make it look like ourselves.

E

Super active, but I don't think we want it to be active because of spam. Yeah I mean.

G

So usually, the cncf channels are actually used for externals, rather than the project team themselves, like most of the ctf channels are just for people who are eventually interested in the project and not project internals. So most.

D

G

You look at most of the cncf projects. They actually have their own slack workspaces where they run everything, because if you think this through, then there will be a channel on java sdk go sdk, typescript, sdk, server-side, client-side provider implementation, so I think, eventually, we'll grow to a state where we will need like a more better communication environment anyways.

G

Usually I think most of us are using slack. I think the only downside, with slack as most of you will be aware of, is for an open source project with an undefined number of users. It's just incredibly expensive and very unpredictable.

G

So I think the main decision is whether to stick to slack or is another solution, but I think it eventually will move out of the cmtf space. If you look.

D

At most other projects, pretty much the same.

G

Like look at argo, look at uh open, telemetry.

D

While they're using.

G

Kitter, which I think is horrible, but I mean at the end of the day it's I think up to the team what we want to use, but it would move it out of that, like one single channel, eventually.

E

Yeah, but I think I mean the immediate problem is figuring out what we do with the github bot and- and perhaps I guess I propose solution b we create another channel, that's dedicated to like that, or we can restrict it to very specific things like a pull request against like the spec repo or something- and that's that's about it for now. So I'm not sure if any of.

A

E

A

This point it makes sense to instead of creating more channels here. We should keep this as a more public channel and find a solution for for more fine-grained chat. I think I think that's right. I think it's kind of going to be unsustainable, so I would vote that we just my vote. I would vote that. We ratchet back all the warnings to just new pr to maine.

A

If we can get that granular and then um new issue, um I think that's probably gonna probably going to cover it for now and then maybe look at an open source free alternative. I mean, I think, there's like rocket chat. I don't know if that still exists, but getter. I I I'm not partial to any, but I agree with the assertion all of us is making. I think we should probably just keep the current slack channel as a very public channel and.

C

Could we do we split the difference and just create a new channel? That's just just for now, like just so that we like, we don't have to figure out, decide the new, whatever thing just create a new channel in the cncf slack for the time being, that's just you know, open feature, noise or something and and then you can make make this decision without uh continuing to have that kind of all that noise in the github. You can.

L

Ask at some point we will be kindly asked to be at least the same box project first um but yeah. uh Knowing that means we can ask for that.

E

Yeah I mean I can create the channels easy like that. That's just allowed it's pretty open on the cncf uh workspace. Actually, um so I guess we could either just create. I probably come up with something other than noise, because it sounds bad, but if it's.

G

E

So I could either do that or we could and or I guess we could just heavily restrict it in the current uh channel. So um whatever the preference is both of those options are easy and we can kind of defer the the more uh elaborate solution. I guess for another time, so any preference on on those options.

E

All right, we'll figure out something I guess let us know, but we'll try to cut down on the noise there.

A

Can I propose: is anybody interested in doing a little bit of research in terms of uh an alternative? For slack um I mean I agree. We can go either way on this decision right now, but maybe it would be a good idea to if somebody's interested in volunteering- and maybe somebody has time to or some ideas, dora. Oh thank you. That would be great, um so yeah, maybe maybe you could as a takeaway just research, some other possible communication channel that um decides.

E

To select, you may even be able to be slack, they probably have something for open source projects or something.

G

And there's also a tech there's also a maintainer channel within the cnc apps that other projects are using, so we might just switch out what work best for others. I mean at some extent it's like personal taste, whether you want to use skitter.

D

G

You want to use slack or whether you want to use just looking what I would have on my phone discord. So I think options are there and are plenty at the end of the day. I think it doesn't really matter as long as people can easily join.

G

I think the biggest.

E

Downside of slack.

G

Is really the cost piece that you lose history, otherwise, which is kind of annoying.

E

Yeah, so we can see check on that, but everyone already has slack, obviously everyone's already in that or most people are already on that channel. So perfect, okay um sounds good.

J

F

Then the last item for now is from oleg uh on the open feature, governance and uh technical steering.

L

Yeah just closing the voting item so two weeks ago um we made a proposal for the bootstrap governing board and technical student committee, so there are two issues there and basically, as we agreed, we started I passing voting in on github issues and right now there is no votes against the proposal.

L

Second, this is my screen.

H

L

Okay, so here what do we have so for the governing board? um Yes, we are good. At last time we go with five members and we reserve for two seats until more parties join, so all votes are plus if you haven't voted yet it's last chance to speak against and pretty much the same for a technical steering committee.

L

So three individuals to form an initial steering committee and we remain quite flexible, so we need we can grow this entity and have more people so question to the participants. Do we want to wait more? Do we just approve these results and basically just consider it decided, and then I will implement it in the chat.

A

Okay, um I think there is so just to just to call out to make sure we uh agree. I think we can we're saying we can merge the um proposals, as is both for the governing and the technical steering, and then subsequently we can add more people right, so we don't want to be at an even number, ideally, um but we'd like to be up to seven. So so later we could add more people if we felt like it yeah.

L

Right now we are not limited. We still remain in the bootstrap phase, so yeah we can grow governing boards. We've needed. Nine is quite common in open source projects, while going after 11, probably too much but yeah it's possible and for the serum committee, adding two or four more people is totally feasible.

B

L

F

All right um yeah for the moment there are no other items in the agenda unless anyone has something else, they'd like to bring up or further discuss.

L

Okay, so for basically for the government stuff I just implemented, and we consider the voting is concluded right. Yeah.

A

Yeah, I think that's fine. For now we can have more prs if we want to add people later I mean I'd. Certainly I'd certainly like to get up to seven, but I don't see why we can't merge it, as is.

A

Okay- and I guess one practical takeaway, if we oh sorry, somebody else is speaking: go ahead, no um one practical takeaway. um We mentioned the different repositories that we may need to kind of get space.

A

For um I don't know if anybody else has any specific uh languages or runtimes um that have you know uh associated uh repository space like public standard public repositories like equivalent to david, central or npm, but um if you do have, uh if you do have one of those in mind, please speak up because we we should kind of get those name spaces as soon as possible.

A

um Maybe yeah, maybe I'll do some research into python. I really don't know that much about python, so I'll try my best to figure out where, where that belongs, um but I think we have uh that that and probably.net. So I think there's a standard new get repository. I don't know if anybody knows about that either, but we should probably do what we can to to nail down those locations.

A

Does anybody here have familiarity with either of those those uh repositories or artifacts.

K

A

With python they don't have.

K

Scoping in the way that npm does.

J

um I I don't, but I can offer that um we currently here at split. We we distribute our our sdks is open source and um I forget how many languages I'm in well over a dozen languages, and you know we're in some sort of solution for all those things, and I I don't have the answers, but I can I have people who can answer them, um so um I can probably get some guidance uh for any of those languages or or others.

A

I think the ones that stand out to me right now that we don't have any uh movement on so far python and dotnet. So if you could.

J

Take that as a takeaway.

A

Josh, that would be awesome.

J

I will I will do that.

G

E

Maybe one other topic.

K

Unlike the octf submission, as we come to the end here as.

D

G

D

G

Members, I would recommend, maybe also that you can see it cncf.

D

G

I got I got the dims, the cmcs toc chair that you're interested in moving this project, for I think some more messaging towards the cdf that this would be in our all interests to move this project forward quickly would be appreciated. I mean.

D

G

Now they keep hearing, obviously for me, but if you keep hearing from more people that will definitely be helpful and like.

E

These meetings happen like.

G

Every now and then- and uh I think it would be helpful- if, like more of you who are cncf members, have a short message towards the toc that this is something that you are interested in moving forward quickly and actually that's the reason for me why the ccof, amongst others, exists. We can work together on foundation, match project on something cross company, so yeah reach out to me.

D

G

uh You want to coordinate on this, but I think it just helps to give it a bit more urgency within the cncf um then like just following that process of like taking down. Maybe five projects uh a review, because right now is what mall has put this into almost somewhere next year, which is really good.

E

uh Last point too: so, since I put a couple: pull requests out recently for the spec, especially the most recent one, that's currently open that one's uh related to the provider piece. So basically, my ask would be like all the vendors should definitely have a look at that that one's, of course, it's not set in stone when it's merged, but this is a good opportunity to take a look at it.

E

Make sure you know you agree with everything um and then you know just certainly let us know your concerns and we can make some adjustments there, but this is an important one to make sure that people are on the same page.

G

And I have a last one so next week on tech, I believe we should actually do a presentation uh open feature, so whoever volunteers wants to do. It should just go ahead. It will also help us to get more traction around the project.

E

Okay, yeah, I think that's it for.

A

F

Then, if there's nothing else, I'll renew my deep request, if someone would like to volunteer to be scribed for the next meeting, otherwise I'll send out kind reminders in our slack channel.

A

uh I can go ahead and do it next time.

F

All right thanks todd.

B

Yeah, thanks for doing.

E

It today pete appreciate it.

E

Cool sounds good. This will uh talk to you guys soon.

G

Great all right, bye, bye, thanks, guys, bye, bye.