►
From YouTube: Haifuraiya Proposal Work Session 25 August 2022
Description
All about orbits and earlier in the session the technical repository was established at https://github.com/phase4space/propulsion_subsystem_haifuraiya/tree/6.3c
This has all the high TRL EP work.
B
A
Okay,
so
we're
hoping
to
get
dan
schultz
nhfgv,
I
think
as
well,
but
let's
see
if
he
responds
in
time,
but
this
is
just
a
quick
gut
check
between
what
we
can
do
for
analysis.
That
actually
would
mean
something
tangible
for
michelle's
presentation
and
what
we
can
do
with
the
constraints
of.
We
only
have
a
six
kilogram,
which
has
to
have
the
payload
communications
payload,
and
it
has
to
have
a
payload.
Well,
not
a
payload.
C
A
Mass
budgets
have
to
be
equal
to
the
maximum
mass
budget
of
the
mission
which,
in
our
general
cases,
is
6u
whatever
they
allow
us
to
do
six
years.
If
we
make
it
out
of
paper,
we
can
put
more
stuff
if
we
make
it
out
of
solid
blocks
of
metal,
we
can't
put
any
stuff.
So
the
question
is
whatever
six
you
can
hold
and
whatever
six
you
can
weigh.
That's
all.
We
have
okay,
okay,.
A
B
The
highly
elliptical
orbit
or
higher
earth
orbit-
this
is
the
one.
This
is
a
favorite
orbit
or
a
requested
orbit
for
the
for
the
communication
service
for
for
the
amateur
communications
or
amateur
satellite,
and
so
heos
in
the
past
have
been
extremely
popular
so
at
at
the
high
altitude,
it's
in
the
sky
for
a
number
of
hours
for
a
length
of
time
relatively
easy
to
point
and
and
it
moves
around,
so
it
gives
a
variety
of
distance
working
opportunities.
B
So
this
is
a
very
popular
orbit,
one
that
we
assume
that
we
should
pursue
the
low
altitude
from
our
discussions
with
the
fcc
needs
to
be
above,
I
need
to
be
1250,
kilometers
or
above,
and
this
reduces
the
crossover
we
will
know.
We
will
not
cross
over
the
commercial
constellations
that
are
in
leo,
and
so
that
was
received
positively.
So
that's
so
this
particular
orbit
and
the
the
reasons
kind
of
for
it.
You
know
from
the
community
and
also
from
from
discussions
with.
A
A
B
A
Question
I
have
is
that,
while
in
space,
the
earth
is
actually
rotating
around
its
axis
pretty
much
this,
this
two-dimensional
plot
of
a
three-dimensional
orbit
with
the
rotating
earth,
or
if
this
is
a
snapshot,
is
really
going
to
complicate
earth
station
coverage.
To
the
point
that
some
regions
may
be
favored
less.
That's
because
they're,
just
you
know,
in
the
wrong
plane
or
they
they'll
see
it
flat
rise
and
et
cetera,
et
cetera,
et
cetera,.
A
What
happens
if
set
number
two
opportunity
comes
up
because
we've
made
a
great
hardware:
it's
working
and
people
say:
okay,
fine,
let's
risk!
Let's
fly
yours
a
bit,
give
you
a
chance,
but
if,
if
you
were
to,
if
you
were
to
kind
of
think
of
the
use
cases-
and
we
we
need
to
discuss
this,
but
I'm
just
going
to
I'm
trying
to
pick
a
color
here
now,
I'm
trying
to
pick
a
damn
color
to
make
a
box
I'd,
just
like
it
to
make
a
box
guys.
A
A
Right,
but
what
I'm
trying
to
say
is
that
the
elliptical
orbit,
you
know
it's
not
appropriate
for
three
or
four,
but
it
is
appropriate
if
we
say,
for
example,
put
put
some
here
put
some
here
put
some
here
and
basically,
if
we
do,
if
we
claim
some
space
for
our
own
missions,
some
orbit
for
our
own
missions,
then
we
can
change
the
parameters
of
the
thing.
But
as
long
as
the
orbit.
B
B
It
is
concerned
with
the
eccentricity.
You
can
see
it
from
the
from
the
proposal,
so
it's
a
it's
a
hero,
so
I
think
we
should
keep
that
if
we
want
to
add
a
circular
orbit
like
you
have
here
in
purple.
That
would
be
something
that
we
would
add.
So
our
our
goal
here
for
this
particular
proposal
is
to
nail
the
helo
first,
because
that
is
what
the
community
wants.
A
Okay,
let
me
just
let
me
just
do
this,
because
I'm
thinking
in
terms
of
proportional
system
requirement-
okay,
I'm
just
doing
this.
Okay
hold
on
a
second
here's.
Our
little
earth
and
here
is
say,
1200
arbitrary
kilometers,
with
a
with
a
you
know.
Large.
You
know
this
is
a.
This
is
tom?
Just
helped
me
out
mathematically,
an
ellipse
that
is
elongated
in
one
of
its
axises
has
eccentricity,
not
one
right.
A
I
so,
but
what
I'm
trying
to
say
is
that
if
I
were
to
redraw
this,
if
I
were
to
say
just
con
for
conveniences
sake,
take
this
ellipse
and
if
I
were
to
use
a
different
color-
and
I
said,
hey
guys:
let's
make
a
circle
like
this.
I
want
to
change
this
color
down
and
there
see
that
thing.
What
I'm
doing
that
is
going
to
deliver
approximately.
I
have
to
make
it
slightly
bigger,
I'm
just
doing
just
a
scale.
Okay,
one!
A
A
A
A
You're
talking
to
the
professional
designers,
I'm
telling
you
no,
the
answer
is
no
it'll
actually
cost
us
less.
I
mean
overall
delta
v
budget
to
deliver
a
circular
machine
then
actually
do
elliptical.
I
mean
I'm
quite
confident
with
that.
When
I'm
saying
it,
I'm
I've
done
the
math
long
many
times,
hundreds
over
what
I'm
trying
to
I
say.
Let
me
tell
you
that
the.
B
A
A
A
No,
no!
Okay!
If
you
want
to
see
jill
sorry,
what
am
I
doing
here?
Just
hang
on
a
second
I'll
show
you
geo
geo
start
where
the
hell
would.
Why
would
it?
Okay,
I
want
to
draw
a
circle.
Okay,
I
want
to
do
a
circle
that
is
like
geo
is
like
this
is
like
infinite
amount
of.
You
know
this.
This
is
not
even
geo.
The
geo
is
like
way
out
there,
I'm
talking
about
like
15,
20,
000,
30,
sorry,
twenty
three
thousand,
it's
thirty.
A
B
A
C
C
A
B
C
Yeah
I
mean
it
gives
you
extended
time
over
one
spot
on
the
earth
sort
of
with
that
that
high
apogee,
you
know
it
takes
a
long
time
then.
So
you
get
better
communication
for
it
and
to
have
other
satellites
on
the
same
orbit.
Don't
necessarily
help
because
they'd
be
at
the
lower
point
at
that
time,
so
that
that's
why
you've
got
different
inclinations
for
the
others.
C
A
So
what
I'm
trying
to
say
is
that
if
you
said
that
look,
you
want
24
hour
orbit.
That's
a
geo
position.
If
you
want
higher
than
24
like
26
hour
orbit,
you
go
higher.
If
you
want
to
go
lower
by
22
hours
or
21
hour
orbit
circular,
then
it
it
can.
It
can
cover
many
different
places
on
under
the
planetary.
You
know
under
the
factory
sub-orbital
point,
so
I'm
just
saying
that
the
propulsion
system
definitely
doesn't
have
to
be
one
or
the
other.
B
A
Here
is
a
then
you've
got
to
go
into
details
and
saying:
do
you
want
an
apogee
or
not?
If
you
don't
want
an
apogee,
if
you
want
to
just
keep
the
apogee
the
same
as
perigee,
it's
a
circular
orbit,
no
big
deal,
it's
still
a
heal,
but
it'll
just
stay
up
there
22
hours,
21
hours,
20
hours
a
day
I
mean
we.
B
Just
have
to
define
so
it's
defined
in
the
proposal
and
it
has
a
a
high
apogee
and
the
perigee
has
been
modified
since
2014.
So
the
the
original
proposal
which
predates
all
of
these
constellations
had
a
pretty
low
perigee
like
down
to
550
kilometers
yeah,
but
now,
based
on
the
feedback
from
from
meeting
with
the
fcc
and
listening
carefully
to
what
they've
told
us,
jan
king
and
others
have
said,
it
needs
to
be
raised
to
12.50
so
1250
out
to
something
like
32
000,
and
that
is
what
the
community
wants.
B
A
B
A
B
B
Yes,
that's
the
link
that
was
so.
If
you
go
page
forward,
you
can
see
the
orbit
the
same
orbit
page
that
we
have
there.
So
here's
our
initial
one
and
here's
the
final
one
so
see
we
take.
We
need
to
take
these
numbers
and
we
need
to
adjust
them
based
on
the
feedback
that
we
have
received.
So
instead
of.
B
And
before
we
go
any
further
on
this,
I'm
I
all
I
did
is
is
is
pass
along
the
change
to
the
perigee.
I
don't
know
enough
about
orbital,
mechanics
and
orbits
to
know
whether
or
not
that's
a
silly
thing
to
say
like
I
know
that
you
can't
you
don't
get
something
for
nothing
in
physics
right,
you
simply
don't.
B
So
if
there
is
some
other
better
altitude
to
have
as
a
high
altitude,
if
there's
a,
if
there's
both
need
to
be
adjusted,
then
you
all
are
going
to
have
to
be
the
ones
to
to
tell
me
that
you
know
I.
What
I
don't
want
to
do
is
is
get
us
in
a
situation
where
we
have
an
expensive
silly
orbit,
because
we
changed
one
number.
We
didn't
change
the
other.
B
Yes,
and
they,
the
community,
is
very
firm
on
this.
They
want
a
highly
elliptical
orbit.
They
value
this
a
lot,
the
pre.
If
you
look
on
the
the
prior
amsat
heo
missions,
page
six,
you
can
see
that
there
are
these
previous.
You
know
satellites.
These
are
celebrated
and
beloved
and
legendary.
Now
they
people
love
these
orbits.
We
don't
have
them
anymore.
All
we
have
is
pretty
much
leo
and
we
have
the
qo100,
which
is
the
one
geo
spacecraft
and
it
was
a
great
deal
but
commercial.
So
you
know
it's
a.
A
A
So
I
was
going
to
hope
that
if
I'm
going
to
be
a
team
lead
on
this
propulsion
thing,
I
was
going
to
say:
well,
we
can't
we
can't
ignore
the
fact
that
if
we're
talking
about
equatorial
plane,
which
is
this
orange
orange
outer
circle,
we
can
actually
reorient
the
plane
of
this
with
green
thing.
We
can
actually
go
and
I'm
going
to
try
to
try
to
do
this.
We
could
actually
go
like
sorry,
not
this
guy.
Where
is
it
like?
A
C
A
Right
so
australia
is
north
south
and
japan
is
north.
So
therefore,
I
know
that
even
america's
western
coast,
mid
midwest
to
the
west
would
really
enjoy
it.
How
I
would
enjoy
it
if
the
orbital
track
were
not
classical
23.5
degrees,
inclination
which
is
the
equatorial,
but
rather
in
a
polar
type
of
orbit,
high
altitude,
polar.
C
B
A
A
A
A
A
C
A
So
you
can
choose
any
of
the
parameter
perigee
of
above
1250.
Any
parameter
apogee
close
to
gl,
but
as
long
as
the
plane
is
of
the
orbit
is,
is
tilted
so
that
it
has
a
north
average
north-south
track.
You
know
plus
minus
a
few
degrees
here
and
there
it
will
be
always
covering
australia
and
japan
as
the
primary
market
secondary
market
will
be
us
midwest
to
hawaii.
That
gives
us
only
a
few
countries
to
deal
with
in
terms
of
frequency
coordination,
all
right,
yeah
and
on.
A
C
A
A
A
C
Well,
we
would
probably
want
to
size
what
what
can
we
do
with
a
given
budget
saying:
okay,
here's
how
much
mass
is
available
for
you
for
a
propulsion
system?
Okay!
Well,
we
want
to
look
and
say:
what
can
we
do
for
an
orbit?
You
got
to
ask:
how
are
you
going
to
get
into
this
heel
orbit
or
where
do
you
get
dropped
off
and
okay,
whose
responsibility
is
it
to
like,
raise
that
orbit
or
get
that
high?
C
You
know
elliptical
orbit
how
big's
the
payload
and
all
right
then
we're
going
to
try
to
determine
what
performance
can
we
get
out
of
some
thrusters?
What
do
we
need,
whether
it's
electric
propulsion
or
something
else?
How
long
do
we
have
to
get
there,
but
then
you
know
calculate
things
all
right.
Well,
if
you're
going
to
do
orbital
maneuvers,
you
probably
translate
that
into
delta
v
requirements,
how
much
speed
or
do
you
need
to
change
things,
so
you
figure.
Where
are
we
going
from?
Where
do
we
have
to
end
up
okay?
C
What
performance
are
we
going
to
need?
What
can
we
do
or
for
that
matter?
If
you
have
to
do
this
change,
how
much
mass
do
we
need
that's
available,
so
those
are
things
we'd
want
to
ask
and
then
calculate
saying.
Yes,
this
is
what
it
will
take
to
perform.
Those
maneuvers
might
ask
about
what
about
drag
makeup.
We
want
a
three
or
four
year.
Life
expectancy
that
orbit
might
need
some
boosting
from
time
to
time.
What
are
those
requirements?
Well
that
can
be
evaluated
and
determined
the
orbit
well.
C
Well,
okay,
we'll
have
to
consider
that
as
well,
not
sure
what
propulsion
system
is
the
best,
but
you
determine
all
right
some
delta
v
numbers
for
lifetime
of
the
mission.
What's
the
total
we
need
and
then
based
on
some
performance
out
of
some
thruster
system,
type,
pretty
heavily
to
the
exhaust
velocities
that
you
can
achieve,
then
we
can
determine
how
much
mass
do
we
need
so
that's
kind
of
the
direction.
We'd!
Look
in!
C
B
A
I'll
get
some
copies
of
all
of
this
documentation.
I
mean
I,
I
I
once
I'm
back
in
dc
tomorrow,
I'll
prepare
another
document
set
and
tom
can
spend
a
few
days
reading
through
it
methodically
to
come
up
with
a
set
of
trade
study,
questions
beginning
with
dirt
simple.
If
we
had
all
five
kilograms
of
whatever
propellant
available,
can
we
utilize
it
for
something?
Because
that's
the
easiest
thing,
because
I
I
do
you
happen
to
know
michelle
your
mass
budget
that
you
have
mentally
allocated
for
your
antenna.
B
B
A
B
A
A
B
A
B
I
think
that
we'll
be
involved.
I
definitely
don't
think
that
we'll
be
building
it
by
ourselves.
The
the
aspiration
here
is
that
organizations
that
have
experience
in
building
spacecraft
will
say.
Yes,
this
proposal
looks
good.
Yes,
we
will
help
you
out
and
that
we
form
a
consortium
and
we
get
it
done,
but
we
are
going
to
be
contributing
wherever
we
can.
Our
our
particular
area
of
expertise
is
communications,
and
you
know
that's
that's
what
we
know
the
most
about
so
partnering
up
with
with
organizations
that
know
a
whole
lot
more
about
mechanical.
B
A
B
A
Actually,
I'm
going
to
finish
the
repo
bill.
The
ripple
is
not
done
yet
michelle.
I
need
to
organize
the
old
repo
documents
and
the
paper
references
into
different
folders
and
I'm
going
to
put
a
table
of
contents
into
the
readme
file,
so
that
you
know
one
can
one
can
peruse
the
whole
collection
of
things
that
we
need.
B
A
A
A
A
B
A
B
No
mainly
us,
and
then
I
opened
it
up
to
I
let
the
ori
people
know
and
let
the
libra
space
foundation
folks
know
so
there
was
lots
of.
There
was
some
responses
and
some
questions
but,
like
I
said
for
most
of
those
folks,
it's
one
o'clock
in
the
morning
for
this
particular
time
slot.
So
what
we
try
to
do
is
move
move
the
slot
around
and
have
it
at
different
times
of
the
day,
so
that
different
time
zones
can
participate.
C
B
B
C
B
Both
there's
been
a
variety
of
different
sort
of
construction
paths.
Some
of
them
are
very
much
made
by
amateur
enthusiasts
and
hobbyists
and
experimenters,
and
then
some
the
a
lot
of
the
parts
in
engineering
were
donated
from
commercial
companies.
So
a
variety
of
different
ways
to
get
the
end
results.
B
C
B
Some
a
lot
of
this
can
be
built
in
a
well-equipped
machine
shop.
I
mean
that's
what
essentially,
what
jpl
does?
Of
course,
their
machine
shop
is
extremely
well
equipped
and
there
are
companies
that
sell
space
frames
and
sell.
You
know
systems
subsystems,
and
we
may
end
up
doing
a
variety
of
you
know.
We
may
end
up
going
with
a
commercial
partner
to
build
build
for
us.
We
may
end
up
doing
a
lot
of
the
work
ourselves.
B
B
B
Look
at
the
original
the
the
proposal
from
2014.
It's
all
almost
all
you
know,
these
are
off-the-shelf
components.
These
are
horn,
antennas
and
they're.
All
the
adac
stuff
is,
you
know
from
named
parts
from
commercial
companies
and
and
such
you
know
so,
the
boards,
like
the
communications
boards,
those
are
those
are
things
that
are
going
to
have
to
be
custom,
but
we'll
need
we're
going
to
to
to
get
some
a
lot
of
help
with
that
to
make
sure
that
they're
durable
enough
for
for
space.
B
C
B
Yeah,
there
are
there's
a
lot
of
choice
out
there
right
now,
and
I
think
that
we
are
we're
in
a
really
good
position
to
to
be
able
to
to
pull
something
like
this.
Together
with
the
right
consortium
of
of
organizations
of
like-mind
and
yeah.
I'm
looking
forward
to
to
being
able
to
finish
the
presentation
and
then
and
then
show
it
to
to
people
that
are
interested
in
it.
B
Can
the
they're
you
know
we're
each
each
week
that
we
meet?
We
make
a
bunch
of
progress,
the
we're
going
to
present
this
to
to
the
community.
The
this
particular
proposal
will
be
presented
its
work
in
progress.
Obviously
you
can,
as
you
can
look
through
it,
but
that
will
be
in
mid-september
at
ham
expo.